1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World, there are four elements 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 1: that I have to receive information regarding the chaos in 3 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: downtown Oklahoma City, did indeed resemble Beirut? After what police 4 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 1: believed to be a twelve hundred pound car bomb ripped 5 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: through the nine story federal building Shortly after nine o'clock 6 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: this morning, a massive car bomb exploded outside of a 7 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: large federal building in downtown Oklahoma City, shattering that building. 8 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: Bombing in Oklahoma City was an attack on innocent children 9 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: and defenseless citizens. It was an act of cowardice, and 10 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: it was evil. The United States will not tolerate it. 11 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: Whether they're evil, they're cowardly, they're unspeakably shameless. New suspects 12 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: now have been identified, known only as John Doe. They're 13 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: both about five ten to five eleven, about one hundred 14 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: and eighty pounds, both with brown hair, one with a 15 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: crew cut, the other with a tattoo. Authorities now believed 16 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: the truck that bore the bomb was parked in a 17 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: space alongside the federal building. A second vehicle may have 18 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: been nearby to permit the bombers to escape. The FBI 19 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: said today it was a huge explosion and that the 20 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: explosive used was most likely a simple combination of fertilizer 21 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: and fuel oil. The Oklahoma City bombing of the Alfred P. 22 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: Murrah Federal Building in April nineteen, nineteen ninety five was 23 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: one of the most shocking moments of domestic terrorism in 24 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: the United States history. It was a tragedy that took 25 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: the lives of one hundred and sixty eight Americans, including 26 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: nineteen children. In nineteen ninety five, Oklahoma City Mayor Ron 27 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: Norrick appointed a three hundred and fifty member task force 28 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: to explore ways to remember this tragic event and honor 29 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: those who were killed. The result was the establishment of 30 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: the Oklahoma City Memorial and Museum, which was created to 31 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: remember those who were killed, those who survived, and those 32 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: who were changed forever. The Memorial and Museum would show 33 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: the impact of the violence, but also offer comfort, strength, 34 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: and peace to those who visited. I had the privilege 35 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: of visiting Oklahoma City in nineteen ninety five when the 36 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: bombing occurred, and I just recently visited the Memorial Museum 37 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: a month ago, where I met my guests today, Carrie Watkins. 38 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: Carrie as the executive director of the Oklahoma City National 39 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: Museum and Memorial. Carrie, thank you for joining me to 40 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: commemorate the twenty sixth anniversary. You'll be advised to that 41 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: with regard to this proceeding, basically there are four elements 42 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: that I have to reeve information regarding everybody carry explain 43 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,119 Speaker 1: to us what that's an audio of. Yes, start first 44 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: of all, and honored to be with you and thank 45 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: you for being on this journey with us. He's twenty 46 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: six years. That's the meeting being held on the Water 47 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: Resources Buildings to cross the street from the Murr Federal 48 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: Building on the morning of April nineteenth, and it's a 49 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: routine government hearing where they record those hearings, and they 50 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: start on time, they go through a procedural call, and 51 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: in that they began to go through the countdown of 52 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: the day of that meeting, and you know, it seems 53 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: a mundane and you kind of find yourself looking around 54 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: the room and all of a sudd and you hear 55 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: really the only recording that we know of of the 56 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: bombing of the afrop Mura Federal building. And then you 57 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: begin to hear the human reaction of getting out of 58 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: the building and out of the room in that building. 59 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: Two people died in the Murra building, one hundred and 60 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: sixty five others, and then someone else died on the 61 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: street later, a nurse that came to help. But it's 62 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 1: a breath taking kind of recount of what was going 63 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: on that day and how normal we go about our days, 64 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,679 Speaker 1: and how you just don't know what's going to happen, 65 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: you know. It really is a vivid reminder that we 66 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: are always in the middle of normalcy, surrounded by the 67 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: possibility of something so shocking that it seems happ normal. 68 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: Of course, in this tragic case in April nineteenth, nineteen 69 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: ninety five, among those one hundred and sixty eight Americans 70 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: who died were nineteen children, which I think gave it 71 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: an additional emotional power. The establishment of the Oklahoma City Memoi, 72 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: a museum which was created to remember those who were killed, 73 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: and it's fascinating because it's not a stark place. It 74 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: does show you the impact of the violence, but it 75 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: also offers comfort to those who visit. You really have 76 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: a sense of being connected with history. And I've happened 77 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: to be speaker at the time, and I stopped by 78 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: to see shortly after the bombing, and to be there. 79 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: I went in very quietly, did no media. Didn't want 80 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: to disrupt the people who were still in the process 81 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: at that point of looking for survivors and trying to 82 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: find out how much damage had really occurred. And we 83 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: did everything we could in the Congress to be helpful 84 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: both to the recovery but also to the creation of 85 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: the museum. Recently I had a chance to visit. Would 86 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: you talk to this someone about your memories of that 87 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: tragic day. I was like, oh, Oklahoman's a day, going 88 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: about my day. I was finishing my MBA in on 89 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: my way up the door to a class, and I 90 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: heard aloud boom and watched the garden doors on my 91 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: conduct go out and come back in. And so I 92 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: stepped back in and flipped on the television. In a 93 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: few minutes saw this helicopter shot, which is what you 94 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: see as you come out of our hearing room, out 95 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:18,559 Speaker 1: of hearing that sound in the museum. Really the first 96 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: and only helicopter shot of that morning, and local television 97 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: station in Channel nine happened to begin the air. They 98 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: flipped a helicopter ram came back through downtown and showed 99 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: what became the world of these pictures of this building 100 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: bombed out, with the guts of the building ripped away 101 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: by this four thousand pound bomb. And so I think 102 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: I was just like everybody else, trying to figure out 103 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: what I could do to help or give back. Did 104 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: I know anybody? I certainly knew that building, I knew 105 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 1: that part of downtown. But you know, what would it 106 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: do to our city? Nobody I can tell you in 107 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: the first few minutes that I knew of thought it 108 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: was a terrorist attack. You know. I have to say 109 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: that this should be on the must see list of 110 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: anybody who goes to Homa City. You'll never forget that 111 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: the rest of your life, and it will remind you 112 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: both about the good and the bad about a man 113 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: and his accomplice who clearly were crazy and who were 114 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: clearly doing things that were evil. At the same time, 115 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: I'll show you the heroism and the commitment of the 116 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: decency of so many people. So I would urge everybody 117 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: to put a visit to the memorial and museum very 118 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: high on the list if they go to Oklahoma City. 119 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: But would you just throw a momentary explain both the 120 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: outdoor Symbolic Memorial and the Memorial Museum because you have 121 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: two different centers of activity and centers of learning right there. Yes, 122 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: the memorial is a three point three acre site and 123 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: kind of the heart of downtown. It includes the footprint 124 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: where the Merbillon once stood. It includes the street where 125 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: the rider truck pulled up and McVay detonated the bomb, 126 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: and it includes the area to the north of that 127 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: which was about seven different pieces of property now a 128 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: rescuers orchard and a solemn place, and then that backs 129 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: right up to the museum and the museum entrance and 130 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: the children's areas. So the outdoor site is meant to 131 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: be symbolic, and there's a nine O one gate and 132 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: nine O three gate which frames the moment of nine 133 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: or two when the bomb went off. Probably the most 134 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: pointed is the one hundred sixty eight chairs which are 135 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: stacked in nine rows representing the nine floors of the building. 136 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: There are nineteen smaller chairs, as you said news representing 137 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: the children, and those are glass based chairs with bronze 138 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: backs and granite seats, and these chairs are lit at 139 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: night to be beacons of hope. But they're all very 140 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: individual and they're meant to be individual, and so it's 141 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: a beautiful, solemn, powerful field of empty chairs where you 142 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: realize when you sit down at the dinner table and 143 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: your loved one's gone, there's an empty seat, and that's 144 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: what those chairs are meant to symbolize. At the end 145 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: of the reflecting pom on each side is a five 146 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: foot bronze gate with the mission statement, we come here 147 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: to remember those who were killed, those survived in those 148 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: change forever. May all who leave here and know the 149 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: impact of violence made this memorial offer comforts, drink, peace, hope, 150 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: and certainty, and that really frames the approach of the 151 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: outdoor grounds. And then the museum is a fifty thousand 152 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: square foot museum, a state of the art. We've worked 153 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: hard to meet our visitors where they're coming from and 154 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: technology and with some incredible artifact, but really just to 155 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: show the human side and to put a face to 156 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: these victims of terrorism and to the families that were 157 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: torn apart, and to humanize what terrorists try to dehumanize. 158 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: And I think that's where we've been very successful because 159 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: we've had the family members and the survivors and the 160 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: first responders and the journalists, the prosecutors and the defense 161 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 1: all become our storytellers, And that's an important part. I mean, 162 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: you know, I think you came in so quietly, there 163 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: was no press. But recently a rescue team member sentenced 164 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: all his pictures and there was a picture there of 165 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: him with you as he was working that night, and 166 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: if you look at his scrapbook he wrote in there, 167 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: how powerful that was that the speaker of the house 168 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: came to these grounds and to support the rescue effort 169 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: without fanfare, but just because you did it for the 170 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: right reason. And I just think that it's so important 171 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: as we look in this time of division, this that 172 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: you just did the right thing. And that's what most 173 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: people do. They just came and did the right thing 174 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: at the right time to help and do whatever they could, 175 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: and that's still appreciated both so many people. So, Karry, 176 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: you mean a very important point, which is not just 177 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty eight people who died, but it's 178 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: all of that extended network of their families, their friends. 179 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: I mean, the total number of people who felt a 180 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: deep human loss and who came together, I think, to 181 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: share the pain but also determined to lead to a 182 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: better future. And I think that the fact that you 183 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: continue to develop things I know in two thousand and 184 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: one you began an annual marathon. You also are maintained 185 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: a writed by the Oklahoma City National Memorial Foundation, which 186 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: is a nonprofit private organizations. We're going to have a 187 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: connection on our show page for people who want to 188 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: get more involved and want to help with the funding 189 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: of the future of the museum. The indictment charges that 190 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,599 Speaker 1: Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, former Army buddies with a 191 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: grudge against the government, planned the bombing, selected the Mura 192 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: of Federal Building in Oklahoma City as their target, want 193 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: install materials for the bomb and building. Timothy McVeigh guilty. 194 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: Guilty of murder, guilty of conspiracy, guilty on all his 195 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: other timberic arguments that he faced in the Oklahoma City 196 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: bombing file. It was the worst terrorist act in American history, 197 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: and Timothy McVey it could now be sentenced to death. 198 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: It's a very strange moment in American history. We'd had 199 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: the Waco, Texas standoff between the Branch Davidians, who were 200 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: a religious cult headed by David Koresh, and the US 201 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: authorities February twenty eight, nineteen ninety three, and I remember 202 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: at the time vividly how difficult that was and the 203 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: kind of things that shook people up. And then in 204 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three there's the World Trade Center bombing, which 205 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: also involved a truck bomb that was trying to bring 206 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: down the entire North tower but killed six people, did 207 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: not in fact bring down the tower, But there were 208 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: things like that out there. And along comes Timothy McVay. 209 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: First of all, why did he choose the federal building 210 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: in Oklahoma City. Well, actually, the reports say that he 211 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: had looked at several federal buildings around the country and 212 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: he felt like this would have the greatest impact or 213 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: what he called collateral damage. Some suspect because it had 214 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: the daycare on the second floor. Some say because the 215 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 1: approach was right at the street. Before nineteen ninety five, 216 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: better buildings were very accessible. You weren't going through magnetometers necessarily, 217 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: and you could pull right up and run in. Our 218 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: approach to access to our government has changed. It really 219 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: was one of those things I think that we did 220 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: worry about that making sure that what happened here didn't 221 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: continue to happen anywhere else. That was something that this 222 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: had been changed. But McVay chose this Billie because he 223 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: wanted a soft target and he felt like no one 224 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: would be suspecting this type of event happening in Oklahoma City. 225 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 1: It was, you know, a quiet, sleepy town. We just 226 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: kind of voted to revitalize ourselves. But we're in the 227 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: process of it, and they chose it and I think 228 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: made an impact in the way they thought would change 229 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: the country and the government forever. But instead, you know, 230 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: we rallied and united and the country united, and the 231 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: martyrs did not win. So if I remember quickly, he 232 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: actually went up to somewhere near Fort Riley, Kansas to 233 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,439 Speaker 1: pick up the explosives he would later unuse. This was 234 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: really pretty thought through in his part. Yeah, you know, 235 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: he got supplies from all over I think eighteen different 236 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: states that he had impact on. As he was dreaming 237 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: up this bombing. He had been in Kansas, but bought 238 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: some items in Texas and drove back and forth and 239 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: came here several times. Was in Arkansas. Sum he spent 240 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: some time collecting the money to be able to buy 241 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: the racing fuel and the money nitrate. And it didn't 242 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: just happen overnight. So you have a fairly sophisticated plan 243 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: which tragically picked Oklahoma City. But he could have gone 244 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: to a number of places if I understood it correctly. Well, yeah, 245 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: I think he supposedly he had looked at Little Rock 246 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: in Kansas City, maybe even Dallas kind of in this region. 247 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: But he supposedly, and what we have read, had looked 248 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: at several different federal buildings trying to see what he 249 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: had the best access. And in the book that was 250 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: written by a couple of journalists he talked about it 251 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: from city had collateral damage because of the daycare on 252 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: the second floor and he could see the children's arn't 253 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: work in the window. Absolutely real, which is really a 254 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: pretty cold human being who was deliberately targeting children. Well, 255 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it was a man of that soul. 256 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: He had been frustrated by the governments at what he 257 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: called over reach and what he didn't get to accomplish 258 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: in the army, and some of the others were impacted 259 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: because of his extreme beliefs. As part of all this. Ironically, 260 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: having gotten the truck down there, etc. He gets pulled 261 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: over by a policeman about any miles north of Oklahoma 262 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: City after the explosion because in Oklahoma state trooper noticed 263 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: a missing license plate on the car. He was a 264 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: yellow Mercury Marquis that he was trying to get away 265 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: in and he had a concealed weapony who got arrested. 266 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: And all that occurred ninety minutes after the bombing. So 267 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: while it was partially luck, it was still pretty amazing 268 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: how rapidly they picked him up, you know, remarkable. So 269 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: Charlie Hanger was a Colama Highway Patrol trooper. He was 270 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: hearing on the radio about the work needed in a 271 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,479 Speaker 1: ploma city. He wanted to come to Cloma City. Headquarters 272 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: said stay on your assignment for the day. And when 273 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: he turned around to go back, and he saw this 274 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: large Mercury Marquee without a license and the rest is history, 275 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: as they say. But he did his work amazingly well. 276 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: He took McVeigh to the jail in Noble County where 277 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: Marsha Murette's a jailer doing her ordinary work extraordinarily well 278 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: that day, and you know, put him in a jail suit, 279 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: took his clothes, put him in a sealed bag where 280 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: they would trace amnion nitrate from his clothes back to 281 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: that truck. I mean, really great Americans did their work 282 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: which some would say it's mundane an ordinary. They just 283 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: did it really well that day. Some say, you know 284 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: a lot of troopers were just gone on by and 285 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: not worried about someone not having an attag. But Charlie 286 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: Hunger did that day. And when you hear his story 287 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: in the museum, he talks about McVey saying, you know, 288 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: he had a knife and a loaded gun and he said, 289 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: my guns loaded, and Charlie Hinger said, and so is mine, 290 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: as he put it to the back of his head, 291 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,479 Speaker 1: trying to get his attention that he was serious about this. 292 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: And I think Marsha Moritz talks about, you know, he 293 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: came into the jail and the TV was on showing 294 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: the scenes from the bombing, and he didn't even flinch, 295 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: and she said, you know, to this day, she can't 296 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: really believe that he could watch that television not having 297 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 1: any sort of remorse or reaction on his face. And 298 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: I think, you know, that's the kind of person we 299 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: were dealing with. And one of our points of our 300 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: mission here is to make sure we are doing educational 301 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: outreach and training people that there are ways to resolve 302 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: differences and get changes in government. But it's not through 303 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: acts of terrorism or violence, and that's what we are 304 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: focused on here. You know, one of the most emotional moments. 305 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: You have a picture that became very well known about 306 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: a firefighter carrying a one year old girl was taken 307 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: by a local loan officer. Talk about that picture, Well, 308 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: Bailey Almonds just had her first birthday on the day 309 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: before and she was in the day hear of the 310 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: Merry building and she was killed. And there's a very 311 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: powerful picture of a policeman bringing her body to a firefighter. 312 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: And that picture of the firefighter cradling this baby child, 313 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,719 Speaker 1: of the darling little girl, was the front page of 314 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: most newspapers next morning, the cover of Time magazine news Week. 315 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: It was a Polisher Prize winning photograph, and I think 316 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: it just showed the horror of what firefighters and all 317 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: first responders were facing, and then the innocence and the 318 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: loss of people who just went to work that day 319 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: or went about their life and never never saw this coming. 320 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: And some of the firefighters went into the building and 321 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: they were actually saving lives a good bit after the 322 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: original bombing, weren't they. Well, the firefighters in the first 323 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 1: sponsors did a remarkable job. There were a lot of 324 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: workers helping workers and getting them out. There were people 325 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 1: who were major damage who their co workers got them 326 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: out to the curb to get emergency response. And there 327 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: were firefighters and policemen who ran towards the building instead 328 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: of running away. It really was an incredible rescuing recovery effort. 329 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 1: And then you saw our teams came in from around 330 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: the country and they were powerful and helpful. I think 331 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: what was the most helpful about the national teams that 332 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: came here is they helped us recover something for everyone. 333 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: All the energy to it becomes there was something that 334 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: families got back, and I don't think we fully appreciate 335 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: that till after nine eleven and families couldn't recover any 336 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: parts of their loved one's body. And it sounds so 337 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: horrible to talk about, but these are real impact. These 338 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 1: are real life things that happened following these type of 339 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: terrorist attacks, and their impact on innocent people, you know, 340 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 1: as we've talked about, is far more reaching than just 341 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: the one hundred and sixty eight. No, he actually hadn't accomplished, 342 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: didn't he He did. Terry Nichols, his accomplice, old army buddy, 343 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: and then a guy named Michael forty Er, who was 344 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: another army buddy, helped. He and Terry kind of determined 345 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: where they would place the barrels of the money and 346 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: I treat in the truck, and they talk about moving 347 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: soup cans around them, Michael's kitchen table and Kingman, Arizona 348 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: and figuring out the biggest place to have impact. And 349 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: so it really was those three. Michael Fortier turn state's 350 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: evidence and served as sentence, and then he was removed 351 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: and put into viti protection. Terry Nichols continues to serve 352 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: a life sentence, and then Timothy mcbabe was put to 353 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: death in two thousand and one. This morning, the United 354 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 1: States of America carried out the severest sentence for the 355 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 1: gravest of crimes. The victims of the Oklahoma City bombing 356 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 1: had been given not vengeance, but justice, and one young 357 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: man met the fate he chose for himself six years ago. 358 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: For the survivors of the crime and for the families 359 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: of the dead, the pain goes on. Final punishment of 360 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: the guilty cannot alone bring peace to the innocent. It 361 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:16,439 Speaker 1: cannot recover the loss or balance the scales, and it 362 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: is not meant to do so today every living person 363 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: who was hurt by the evil nun in Oklahoma City 364 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 1: can rest in the knowledge that there has been a reckoning. 365 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: Wasn't there a very emotional sense because the trial had 366 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: to be moved? Was it to Denver? Was so people 367 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: are watching by closed circuit television in Oklahoma City as 368 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: the trials underway in Denver? Is that correct? Yeah, they 369 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: moved the Feddle trials to Denver, and they did some 370 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: preliminary here. But remember the Federal courthouse was heavily damage. 371 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: It was on the south side of the building, and 372 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: so it was not usable for several months where they 373 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 1: rebuilt it, and so they had some preliminary trials here. 374 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: Judge Richard was assigned to it so that none of 375 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: the local judges would be inflicted. Today's current Attorney General, 376 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 1: Mary Garland was the lead sent here from Justice Department 377 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: to put the prosecution in the investigative teams together. And 378 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: the trial was moved to Denver, and one trial was 379 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 1: held for tenth to McBay and the second one was 380 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: held for Terry Nichols. And in the day's case, wasn't 381 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: there a real sense of justice when people learned that 382 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: he had been convicted. Oh my gosh. I was on 383 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: the ground when that verdict came down, and I think 384 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: they were so relieved. And in his case, they were 385 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: also relieved that he had perceived the death sentence. And 386 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: whenever the when that verdict came down and Terry Nichols, 387 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 1: it was different because he wasn't actually in it from 388 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: the city that day, and so he did not get 389 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: put to death. And for some people struggled with that, 390 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: but others were just pleased they got the guilty verdict 391 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: and he would spend the rest of his life in prison. 392 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 1: I was startled when I read as part of your 393 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,719 Speaker 1: material to museum that the FBI did twenty eight thousand 394 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: interviews and had forty three thousand investigative leads and three 395 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: and a half tons of evidence. I mean, wow, that 396 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: is an all out effort. It remains the largest case 397 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: the FBI has tried in its agency's history. And if 398 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: you go to their office in DC, and I've been 399 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: there a couple of times, they still have exhibits on displaying. 400 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: It was a remarkable effort by the federal government, which 401 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: is also the same federal government that gave mcvah Nichols 402 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 1: a fair trial, and so I think as you balance justice, 403 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: we all see justice differently. But as you balance that, 404 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: you have to really stand in all of a government 405 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: who's big enough and bare enough, as people say, to 406 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: be able to both prosecute the perpetrators and to give 407 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: those same perpetrators a fair trial. It's a remarkable system 408 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 1: we have, seeming to be the people did have a 409 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: sense that the justice was being done and how well 410 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,959 Speaker 1: they wouldn't bring their loved ones back to life at 411 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,360 Speaker 1: least give them the sense that the country hadn't forgotten them. Absolutely. 412 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: I think you know that the hard part made because 413 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: of how the laws are written. The jurisdiction of the 414 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: federal government was on the eight federal law enforcement officers, 415 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: so they were tried for those eight law enforcement officers, 416 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: and then the other one hundred and sixty had to 417 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: come back to Oklahoma to be tried in the state 418 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 1: court system of Oklahoma, so the propetors would be held 419 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: accountable for all one hundred and sixty eight. I do 420 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: think that's an area where we as a government had 421 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: to continue to look at and hone and to find 422 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: some sort of domestic terrorism law that is, you know, 423 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 1: enforceable and broad enough for either all terrorism. But it's 424 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: kind of a heart for people to understand that in 425 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: a federal building, being a federal employee, the government didn't 426 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: have the jurisdiction ever their prosecution, and that it remains 427 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: a little bit of a mystery today, but it's sometime 428 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: we keep working on. Yeah, I guess in a sense 429 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: that goes back to our federal system and the things 430 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 1: that the states are responsible for versus the things that 431 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 1: the federal government's responsible for. But you're right, it is 432 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: complicated and it is challenging when you look back all 433 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: this because you're one of the leading experts on this event. 434 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: What are the unanswered questions that still bother you that 435 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: we just don't have an answer for even twenty six 436 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: years later. Well, I think how an American could do 437 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: this to us, I mean half an American could do 438 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: to his own country. That's a mystery to me. How 439 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: and why we couldn't have seen it coming. We know 440 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: so much more now, and our law enforcement knows so 441 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: much more now, and that intelligence and technology is so 442 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: much than it was twenty six years ago. But I 443 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: think for us, we stand amazed that an American could 444 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: ever be that upset with his government that he could 445 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: try to destroy it. We've seen that now since a 446 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 1: couple of times, and I think we have to figure 447 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: out ways to be able to sit down and work 448 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: through these differences. So that is one issue. And I 449 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: think defining and being able to prosecute domestic terrorism is 450 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: an important role that we think we need to have 451 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: a voice in as we work toward that, because if 452 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: you read the Washington Post just yesterday, talked about domestic 453 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: terrorism's on a rise as high as it was in 454 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five or twenty five years ago. It said, So, 455 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: I think we as a country have to figure out 456 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: how to get our arms around this and allow people 457 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: to have a voice and to have the right to protest, 458 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: but not have the right to do criminal acts. Right, left, Republican, Democrat, 459 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. We've got to figure out how to be 460 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: in so many ways to come to the center and 461 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: work out these differences. Well, I think what you're doing 462 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: in the educational program you have, you're making agnificant contribution 463 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: to getting people to think about these difficult challenges. I 464 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: sure hope, so, I really do. I hope that we 465 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: are making a difference at least causing people to think, 466 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: because when you look in a world that seems so 467 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: divided as we are today, we've got to figure out 468 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: a way to bridge the gap and to be the 469 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: bridge to letting people here on the other side of 470 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: the story, or a bridge to understanding that violence is 471 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 1: just senseless. It's not the way to impact change. And 472 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: we actually live in an incredible country that we can 473 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: work these differences out, but we just got to do 474 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: it together. Most tremendous, and again I want to remind 475 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: everybody's listening to if you're going to go to Oklahoma City, 476 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: the Oklahoma City National Memorial and Museum has to be 477 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: on your list of the most important things that you do. 478 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: And I think that they will be really impressed with 479 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: the work that Carry and her team have done to 480 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: bring to life and to put in context one of 481 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: the most devastating American examples of domestic terrorism. So I 482 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 1: want to thank you, Kerry. This is really helpful, and 483 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: I hope that it will bring you a number of 484 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: people who learn and donate and who themselves get involved 485 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: in this effort of finding way for us to solve 486 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: our problems without having this kind of extremism. Well, missus Vicker, 487 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: thank you for having me, and thank you for being 488 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 1: with us in our darkest hour and coming back and 489 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: spending so much time with this recently. It meant a 490 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: lot to us. Your attention to detail and your stories 491 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: where I'm handing, and I just thank you for your 492 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: service and what you continue to do for our country. 493 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guests, Carrie Watkins. You can read 494 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: more about the Oklahoma City National Memorial Museum on our 495 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: show page at newtsworld dot com. News World is produced 496 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: by Ginglis Street sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is 497 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 1: Debbie Myers, our producer is Garnsey Sloan, and our researcher 498 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: is Rachel Peterson. You are work for. The show was 499 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,479 Speaker 1: created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at 500 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: Gingrich three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope 501 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with 502 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: five stars and give us a review so others can 503 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of news 504 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: World can sign up for my three free weekly columns 505 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: at Gingrich three sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. 506 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: This is news world,