WEBVTT - 111123 The Algorithms that Divide Us ft. Theo E. J. Wilson (Part 1)

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<v Speaker 1>Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to

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<v Speaker 1>welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher. I am

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<v Speaker 1>your host, Rams this Job.

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<v Speaker 2>He is Rams this Job. I am q Ward. You

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<v Speaker 2>are tuned into Civic Socic.

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<v Speaker 1>Indeed you are, and there is a lot to stick

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<v Speaker 1>around for a lot to talk about today. Listen, man,

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<v Speaker 1>We've been hearing and seeing a lot of back and

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<v Speaker 1>forth on our social media and the comments. And I

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<v Speaker 1>know that our timelines don't look any different from yours

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<v Speaker 1>because there's a lot going on in this crazy world.

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<v Speaker 1>And trust and believe that we are doing our best

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<v Speaker 1>to fight the good fight. And today that train don't stop.

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<v Speaker 1>We have a special guest that will be joining us.

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<v Speaker 1>We really think it's important to introduce this man to

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<v Speaker 1>you because we are fans of his work. We've had

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<v Speaker 1>a chance to talk to him before on the Black

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<v Speaker 1>Information Network, and we have the honor of having him

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<v Speaker 1>joined us today. He goes by the name of THEO. E. J. Wilson.

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<v Speaker 1>You may know him from the viral ted talk that

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<v Speaker 1>he did where he went undercover as a white supremacist

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<v Speaker 1>even though in the real world, in real life he's

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<v Speaker 1>a black man. But what he learned a lot. What

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<v Speaker 1>he learned about was how algorithms work and how we

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<v Speaker 1>can find ourselves in these sort of digital echo chambers.

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<v Speaker 1>And he has some really interesting and compelling thoughts about that.

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<v Speaker 1>Now that's just one thing you may know about him.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, he does a whole lot of other things,

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<v Speaker 1>and I want to talk to him about all those

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<v Speaker 1>things and so much more. Also, we have a really

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<v Speaker 1>really special Biba today for becoming a better Ally there's

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<v Speaker 1>a person that we subscribe to who really needs our help.

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<v Speaker 1>So we want you to stick around for that as well,

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<v Speaker 1>so that we can give you some game on how

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<v Speaker 1>you can help us and help this individual make the

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<v Speaker 1>world a little bit better of the place. So all

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<v Speaker 1>that and more to stick around for. But first and foremost,

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<v Speaker 1>like we always do at this time, I think we

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<v Speaker 1>should start things off on a high note some Ebony excellence.

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<v Speaker 1>How does that sound cute? Shall we? We shall? And

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<v Speaker 1>so today Ebony Excellence, as always is sponsored by Major

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<v Speaker 1>Threads for Innovative Fashionable Sports where check majorthreads dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>And we're going to highlight two individuals that really need

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<v Speaker 1>no introduction, rock Him and Scarface, and how we're highlighting

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<v Speaker 1>them is by bringing some attention to a new initiative

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<v Speaker 1>that is taking place to honor hip hop legends just

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<v Speaker 1>like these too. So this comes from Black enterprise honoring

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<v Speaker 1>Rock Him and Scarface. Hip hop has created a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of millionaires and even billionaires in its fifty year history,

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<v Speaker 1>but some early pioneers never got their just due, and NAS,

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<v Speaker 1>Steve Stout, and others are looking to change that. NAS

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<v Speaker 1>and Stout have joined forces with Andresen Horwitz, co founder

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<v Speaker 1>Ben Horwitz and his wife Felicia Horwitz to pay homage

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<v Speaker 1>to hip hop pioneers through financial support. The inaugural hip

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<v Speaker 1>Hop Grandmaster Awards will take place November seventeenth and honor

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<v Speaker 1>hip hop legends Rock Him and Scarface, and a celebration

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<v Speaker 1>where one hundred percent of proceeds will go to support

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<v Speaker 1>hip hop greats and other creatives. Many pioneers, like Scarface

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<v Speaker 1>and Rock Him were ahead of their time in shaping

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<v Speaker 1>hip hop culture before the art form received the financial

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<v Speaker 1>backing and success that came in the late nineties and

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<v Speaker 1>early two thousands. Because of this, the Paid in Full

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<v Speaker 1>Foundation intends to right the wrongs by securing a financial

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<v Speaker 1>future for many of those early trailblazers. The Paid in

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<v Speaker 1>Full Foundation aims to rectify that through its grant making

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<v Speaker 1>program by both honoring the people who built hip hop

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<v Speaker 1>and enabling them to pursue their creative and intellectual pursuits

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<v Speaker 1>for the benefit of society. And again, honoring rock Him

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<v Speaker 1>and Scarface feels entirely appropriate because those two are examples

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<v Speaker 1>of excellence. Those two are people that fought fights that

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<v Speaker 1>are unimaginable. For us to bring hip hop to where

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<v Speaker 1>it is, to where we are able to enjoy this

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<v Speaker 1>culture and share this culture with other people, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>globally with a global audience, and for them getting their

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<v Speaker 1>just due and the credit, I think that's entirely appropriate.

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<v Speaker 1>So now onto the man of the hour, mister THEO. E. J. Wilson.

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<v Speaker 1>So I told the listeners a little bit about you know,

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<v Speaker 1>your your TED talk, but I know that there's so

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<v Speaker 1>much more that you're working on, not the least of

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<v Speaker 1>which is I know you were working with the UH,

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<v Speaker 1>there was a TV show that you were working on,

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<v Speaker 1>and a whole lot of other things. And you can

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<v Speaker 1>give yourself the proper introduction. I know full well your capabilities,

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<v Speaker 1>but again, say hi to our listeners and give them

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of background about yourself.

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<v Speaker 3>How y'all doing, Man, I am honored to be on

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<v Speaker 3>this show. We've been working on this for a long time.

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<v Speaker 3>Long time, Yeah, for sure. Listen, man, I am. I

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<v Speaker 3>tried a poet. Actually, I began my career thinking that

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<v Speaker 3>I was a rapper, you know, and rap evolved into

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<v Speaker 3>spoken word, and spoken word got paved into activists, and

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<v Speaker 3>these things combined led to being a Slam poetry champion,

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<v Speaker 3>which opened the doors to the ted X mile high

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<v Speaker 3>stage and doing the talk about my experiment going under

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<v Speaker 3>cover in the al right, which I thought was the

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<v Speaker 3>most useless part of any bit of my time that

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<v Speaker 3>I could even indulge in. But it went viral because

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<v Speaker 3>they released at the weekend that Charlottesville happened. That opened

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<v Speaker 3>a whole lot of doors, got me on the national scene.

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<v Speaker 3>I am the host of a TV show on the

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<v Speaker 3>History Channel. You can check out if you go to

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<v Speaker 3>History dot com right now, check out. I was there and.

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<v Speaker 1>That was it. Sorry, okay, brother, it's all good.

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<v Speaker 3>Listen. And I supposed that my grasp on history showed

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<v Speaker 3>up in poetry as the grandson of a Tuskegee Airman.

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<v Speaker 3>My grandfather was Theobald Wilson of the ninety ninth Pursuit

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<v Speaker 3>Squadron and the Tuskegee Airmen, and so just having a

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<v Speaker 3>background as a member of a blackest door family, so

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<v Speaker 3>they helped out a lot for the History Channel gig.

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<v Speaker 3>But I'm here to help and I use all of

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<v Speaker 3>my gifts to the best of my abilities to move

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<v Speaker 3>us towards liberation.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely. So what I want you to do is for

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<v Speaker 1>the people that may not know specifically what your experience

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<v Speaker 1>was like going in your experiment going underground in the

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<v Speaker 1>alt right, talk a little bit about that, why that

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<v Speaker 1>was an important experience, and talk a little bit about

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<v Speaker 1>what you learned. And then I do want to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about the show. I was there as well.

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<v Speaker 3>So that's what's up.

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<v Speaker 1>Brother.

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<v Speaker 3>Let me tell you something. I started going viral on

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<v Speaker 3>my own Facebook page first because I was making Black

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<v Speaker 3>Lives Matter content. This was like twenty fifteen, brother, So

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<v Speaker 3>you know Eric Garner had recently been killed. You had

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<v Speaker 3>the situation with Ferguson going down. Around this time, Tana

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<v Speaker 3>Hasey Coats had just written the Case for Reparations, which

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<v Speaker 3>was the first video that I ever made that went

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<v Speaker 3>viral because you know, it's a great article, but as

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<v Speaker 3>long win as a I figured out a condensing talking

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<v Speaker 3>in a way that the brothers from the hood can understand.

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<v Speaker 3>So when that went viral, it opened me up for

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of praise and a whole lot of hate

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<v Speaker 3>because we weren't talking about echo chambers at that time.

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<v Speaker 3>There was a whole lot of talk around black lives

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<v Speaker 3>matter versus all lives matter. So I got trolled and

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<v Speaker 3>I started wondering what world are they living in? Man?

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<v Speaker 3>Because they kept sending me the same missing formed alt

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<v Speaker 3>fact memes, and it was coming at me from all

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<v Speaker 3>different angles. I figured that there was probably some information

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<v Speaker 3>I was missing. And at that time, I had a

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<v Speaker 3>buddy named Quincy who worked at a marketing firm. He's

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<v Speaker 3>the one who first uttered the words target marketing algorithm

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<v Speaker 3>to me. I never heard that word before. Before I

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<v Speaker 3>knew it, I started realizing that there was black people,

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<v Speaker 3>that there was white supremacists making fake profiles on black Twitter.

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<v Speaker 3>I said, the author city of y'all to do something

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<v Speaker 3>like that, So I said, I guess two can play

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<v Speaker 3>that game. So when I made the profile, I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think it took me more than ten minutes to make

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<v Speaker 3>this profile. This was twenty fifteen, so remember Obama was

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<v Speaker 3>still president. We didn't know if Trump could win. Hillary

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<v Speaker 3>Clinton seemed inevitable, at least those who are left leading,

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<v Speaker 3>and the experiment, as I got bounced down the echo chamber,

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<v Speaker 3>little by little, I saw how big this was. I

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<v Speaker 3>saw that for a black man, the recurrence of open

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<v Speaker 3>face fascist white supremacy was an existential threat. I had

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<v Speaker 3>no choice, in my opinion, but to figure out how

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<v Speaker 3>big this threat was. And after about eight months, I

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<v Speaker 3>had to shut it down do the mental health concerns.

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<v Speaker 3>But I didn't talk about that in the Ted talk.

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<v Speaker 3>But I knew that Trump had a good chance of

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<v Speaker 3>winning because of that experiment, and sure enough he did.

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<v Speaker 2>I like to ask before we continue, I'm assuming a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of that criticism and hate and strange rhetoric that

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<v Speaker 2>probably caught you off guard came from people that looked

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<v Speaker 2>like us. Did you process that and how did you

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<v Speaker 2>deal with that?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh man?

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<v Speaker 3>The old step in fetched effect. Brother, So at that time,

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<v Speaker 3>there wasn't a whole lot of it. Candice Omens was like,

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<v Speaker 3>for example, she was fringe at that time. She wasn't

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<v Speaker 3>as mainstream as she is now. They were more laughable.

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<v Speaker 3>The hodds Twins hadn't even switched over to that side yet, right,

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<v Speaker 3>And so mainly at the end of the experiment, they

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<v Speaker 3>started becoming more of a factor in those chat rooms

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<v Speaker 3>and on those websites and in those YouTube spaces. That's

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<v Speaker 3>how I began to realize that what was more prescient

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<v Speaker 3>was the need need for validation from black voices. This

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<v Speaker 3>was huge, right, because what these black voices were doing

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<v Speaker 3>was putting the stamp of approval on the white supremacist

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<v Speaker 3>narrative that says, see, yeah, it's not just me who

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<v Speaker 3>things like that, I'm not racist. These are just the

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<v Speaker 3>quote facts. And the authority of blackness that or the

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<v Speaker 3>authority of anybody who suffered oppression, is what the oppressor

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<v Speaker 3>can wait to put on the narrati because it's the

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<v Speaker 3>final nail in the coffin as they dehumanize the oppressed.

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<v Speaker 3>So they were used as a currency, if you will,

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<v Speaker 3>to absolve their consciousness.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we've seen that.

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<v Speaker 2>There will always be space for for us to jump

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<v Speaker 2>aboard that train and give it some you know, some value.

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<v Speaker 2>But even before the experiment, when you were doing Black

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<v Speaker 2>Lives Matter, videos and speaking up on our behalf. And

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<v Speaker 2>I'm only asking this because Ramses and I have dealt

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<v Speaker 2>with a lot of push from our own people when

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<v Speaker 2>it comes to standing up for us. Did you get

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<v Speaker 2>any type of strange resistance or pushback from black people

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<v Speaker 2>when you first started saying things like black lives matter

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<v Speaker 2>and started getting those all lives matter responses?

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<v Speaker 3>They were not as prevalent as they are now, which

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<v Speaker 3>is one of the things that I think is a

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<v Speaker 3>changing of the tide, if you will. So I did

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<v Speaker 3>get a couple of those voices, but they were largely ridiculed.

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<v Speaker 3>They had no cloud. And I will say that when

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<v Speaker 3>you talk about black people who vibe for white approval

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<v Speaker 3>in that way, they I have often found, began down

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<v Speaker 3>that path after experiencing deep black rejection. Black rejection is

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<v Speaker 3>a hard thing to take, man, What.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you mean when you say black rejection?

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<v Speaker 3>They've been rejected by black people to some extent peraps

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<v Speaker 3>they're in the interracial relationship. Perhaps they had a viewpoint

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<v Speaker 3>that wasn't necessarily on cod with what a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>other black folks feel.

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<v Speaker 1>I know what you mean.

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<v Speaker 3>And white people provided a warmer.

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<v Speaker 1>Space, ye, soft space to land.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, right, And that is a very interesting human dynamic,

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<v Speaker 3>because humans are social beings before we are any other

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<v Speaker 3>dimension anything else.

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<v Speaker 2>Ye.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely so.

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<v Speaker 3>If the white folks who were conservative leaning provided a

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<v Speaker 3>soft space to land a warmer set of arms for

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<v Speaker 3>those black folks who said or did something in their

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<v Speaker 3>life that put them on the ouse of the majority

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<v Speaker 3>of black folks, that was pretty much the thing that

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<v Speaker 3>sealed the deal for them switching over to the other side.

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<v Speaker 3>And then, and I haven't talked to many people about this,

0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.440
<v Speaker 3>not even in my university lecturers. The bag for being

0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.120
<v Speaker 3>a black conservative.

0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:46.480
<v Speaker 1>Boy, the bag.

0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:52.000
<v Speaker 3>Listen the bag. Right after the talk with Viral, I

0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:55.559
<v Speaker 3>got hit up by Jared Taylor and some other far

0:12:55.960 --> 0:13:01.120
<v Speaker 3>right voices. Millionaires and billionaires has said, if you go

0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.760
<v Speaker 3>to college campuses speak against Black lives matter, we may

0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:08.319
<v Speaker 3>be able to make it worth your while. These conservative

0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:12.080
<v Speaker 3>college campuses, the ones who bring in Ben Shapiro, the

0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:14.000
<v Speaker 3>ones who bring in canpus old ones, the ones who

0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.480
<v Speaker 3>can't wait to hear from Larry Elder and Thomas Soul

0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.080
<v Speaker 3>up in your face all the time. Those turning Point

0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:24.360
<v Speaker 3>USA college groups will pay triple to quadruple which you

0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:29.040
<v Speaker 3>will get paid in a college environment, speaking on behalf

0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:31.920
<v Speaker 3>of what we know is the right side of history,

0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.880
<v Speaker 3>which is the black voice in academia.

0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:39.400
<v Speaker 1>That is wow, heavy bag wow bro. One of the

0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:44.479
<v Speaker 1>things that we deal with is a lot of pushback

0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:46.760
<v Speaker 1>on our social media and a lot of trops, and

0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.040
<v Speaker 1>I think that's the nature of social media. Some of

0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.440
<v Speaker 1>it is well intentioned, some of it is, you know,

0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:53.599
<v Speaker 1>people trying to debate, but I think the nature of

0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:57.360
<v Speaker 1>the communication doesn't really lend itself to people understanding and

0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.720
<v Speaker 1>it really just allows people to get a bar off

0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:04.000
<v Speaker 1>and feel better about it or two bars off, but

0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.160
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't really lend itself to people understanding each other

0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.360
<v Speaker 1>and believe it or not. As long as I have

0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:13.000
<v Speaker 1>been a broadcaster, and qu's been a broadcaster, this is

0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.920
<v Speaker 1>something that, at least for me, I'm just now learning.

0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.840
<v Speaker 1>I thought that for a long time, I thought that

0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:24.960
<v Speaker 1>you could really convince people by using an objective truth

0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:29.480
<v Speaker 1>and really an appeal to humanity. And it doesn't matter

0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:35.040
<v Speaker 1>the forum. People will see that and will understand your perspective.

0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:37.120
<v Speaker 1>And the fact of the matter is that I've had

0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:43.440
<v Speaker 1>to learn that. Un Fortunately, your ted talk really helped

0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:46.320
<v Speaker 1>us when we were making the foundation for this show.

0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:48.840
<v Speaker 1>I mentioned this to you before the last time that

0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.600
<v Speaker 1>we spoke, but one of the things that we do

0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:57.040
<v Speaker 1>here is we subscribe to some far right content on

0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:02.640
<v Speaker 1>like Reddit and on like Quora and all these places

0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:08.880
<v Speaker 1>where these groups tend to find a framework to exchange

0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:16.280
<v Speaker 1>their ideas and so kind of leaning into those conversations

0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.560
<v Speaker 1>that those people are having. We don't contribute or anything

0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:22.640
<v Speaker 1>like that. But seeing how echo chambers do the same

0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:25.920
<v Speaker 1>thing as the comments section, it's just people getting a

0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.480
<v Speaker 1>bar off here and there. Nobody's really talking, nobody's challenging

0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:32.560
<v Speaker 1>in each other's views, and the people that really try

0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:36.720
<v Speaker 1>to change something or add or contribute something, they're just

0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:41.360
<v Speaker 1>it's spent energy. I realize it's an important part of

0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.040
<v Speaker 1>any sort of brand offering. But that was a hard

0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.160
<v Speaker 1>lesson for me because I got a chance to see

0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.560
<v Speaker 1>head on exactly what we're up against. And I feel

0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.400
<v Speaker 1>like that's very consistent with what it was that you

0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:54.800
<v Speaker 1>were saying, at least in that Ted talk.

0:15:55.800 --> 0:16:01.800
<v Speaker 3>Well, the human beings are socially reinforced creatures, and we

0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:08.400
<v Speaker 3>are very vulnerable to applause in a certain direction. And

0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.360
<v Speaker 3>it made me introspective upon which applause I might be

0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:16.360
<v Speaker 3>unconsciously seeking. However, the thing that grounded me was history.

0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.800
<v Speaker 3>The thing that grounded me was an understanding of how

0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.600
<v Speaker 3>we got here in the context of the present moment.

0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:29.400
<v Speaker 3>And what I can see is that the beast of

0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:33.760
<v Speaker 3>white supremacy, or should a friend of mine calls white misanthropy,

0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:40.760
<v Speaker 3>is in its final days. But it's had many days,

0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:45.360
<v Speaker 3>and the days of its finality will be long, because

0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:50.200
<v Speaker 3>what's going on is that it's losing the narrative war

0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:55.640
<v Speaker 3>and it's losing the demographic war. So it is striving

0:16:56.160 --> 0:17:00.840
<v Speaker 3>to recruit new voices and new faces to be avatars

0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:06.240
<v Speaker 3>for its mission. However, the overwhelming tide of history is

0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.919
<v Speaker 3>against it, and it's going to take longer than I

0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:14.320
<v Speaker 3>thought too. But ultimately reality asserts itself and the facts

0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:19.119
<v Speaker 3>speak for themselves, and in time, it's a historical bend.

0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:20.520
<v Speaker 3>The way that it don't want to look at it

0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:24.080
<v Speaker 3>and shut down critical race theory quote unquote don't want

0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:26.320
<v Speaker 3>to talk about black history means that it is hiding

0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.880
<v Speaker 3>from itself who it truly is and how it will

0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.240
<v Speaker 3>eventually fall. And so you just got to trust the

0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.920
<v Speaker 3>tide of time to do a lot of the work

0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:38.200
<v Speaker 3>for you and plant a seed with what you got

0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:39.600
<v Speaker 3>in the time that you've been allotted.

0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:39.800
<v Speaker 1>Bro.

0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:45.160
<v Speaker 2>So you were in this space kind of bumping into

0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:50.240
<v Speaker 2>these you know, somewhat bought accounts, you know, people who

0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:53.040
<v Speaker 2>might appear to be black, who might appear to be

0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:57.679
<v Speaker 2>hip hop or urban or young or you know, cool,

0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.520
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote, and you discovered something within the algorithm that

0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:03.760
<v Speaker 2>sent you down a path that I know our listeners

0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.920
<v Speaker 2>are going to be like, whoa. So please start from

0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.840
<v Speaker 2>the beginning. Tell us about I was there, how that started,

0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:14.040
<v Speaker 2>how that experience was for you. Because when I first

0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.200
<v Speaker 2>heard about that, brother, I was blown away. And then

0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.440
<v Speaker 2>Ramses was like, yo, you gotta check this out. And

0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, us driving through the Deep South and listening

0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.560
<v Speaker 2>to far right radio kind of was like, Okay, we

0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.760
<v Speaker 2>get why he did that, We get why that was necessary.

0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:30.600
<v Speaker 2>So take us on that journey with you.

0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:33.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, brother Blah, I was there. Came years later, but

0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:40.040
<v Speaker 3>what I ended up doing was so one of the

0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:41.840
<v Speaker 3>There was this meme that kept coming up, and it

0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.359
<v Speaker 3>was a meme of a Civil War battlefield. It was

0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.400
<v Speaker 3>a picture in an old black and white Seputone photograph

0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:51.000
<v Speaker 3>that says six hundred thousand white men died to free

0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:51.960
<v Speaker 3>you from slavery.

0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:53.080
<v Speaker 1>You welcome.

0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:57.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And I'm like, I did battle with the person

0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:00.320
<v Speaker 3>who posted that meme for the longest time, bro. Yeah,

0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.520
<v Speaker 3>And I realized that I wasn't going to get anywhere

0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:07.600
<v Speaker 3>because I didn't understand the root from which that leaf

0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.920
<v Speaker 3>had fallen from. And so around this time, I worked

0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:15.720
<v Speaker 3>at a call center and for whatever reason, the firewalls

0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.240
<v Speaker 3>at the call center would block out a lot of websites.

0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:23.760
<v Speaker 3>And you know, you know, Vanguard Alliance was one of them.

0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:27.480
<v Speaker 3>American Renaissance at the time was one of them. But

0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:31.439
<v Speaker 3>they all had YouTube channels, and so I literally just

0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:34.440
<v Speaker 3>went in and I'm telling you, it didn't it didn't

0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:36.680
<v Speaker 3>take long. When I tell you, I thought this was useless.

0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Bro.

0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:39.240
<v Speaker 3>What I didn't realize is that YouTube is a portal

0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.520
<v Speaker 3>to the dark web. There's a lot of things that

0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:43.720
<v Speaker 3>go on on YouTube that will actually pull you down

0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:45.919
<v Speaker 3>the rabbit hole to the actual dark web. There's a

0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.840
<v Speaker 3>dark YouTube. There's all of that, right, So, just by

0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:51.199
<v Speaker 3>the fact that the algorithm kept feeding me things, I

0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:54.919
<v Speaker 3>felt more down them. And then at the time was

0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:56.879
<v Speaker 3>eight chan. It was a four chance and there was

0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.520
<v Speaker 3>some stuff that I set up on there, but mostly

0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.040
<v Speaker 3>I couldn't do that at work. I couldn't do that

0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:04.840
<v Speaker 3>at work. Maybe a little on my phone, but the

0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:07.120
<v Speaker 3>fact was is that at work was where a lot

0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:11.720
<v Speaker 3>of this was done. And also at work, it was

0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:16.480
<v Speaker 3>twenty fifteen. I remember when the shooting in the church happened, right,

0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.760
<v Speaker 3>it was twenty fifteen, where a lot of talking about

0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:25.080
<v Speaker 3>Dylan Ruth. Yeah, Dylan Ruth. Right, I just joined that job.

0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:31.440
<v Speaker 3>That incident specifically had me triggered as hell. And I'll

0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:33.919
<v Speaker 3>call it trigger because I it hit a trigger. I

0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:39.439
<v Speaker 3>am a police brutality survivor, so here I am. I

0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:46.119
<v Speaker 3>have this account. I see what's being said. I'm triggered

0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:48.680
<v Speaker 3>as hell with the nicest white folks in the world

0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:50.600
<v Speaker 3>working around. I'm telling you, the nicest white folks who

0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:55.720
<v Speaker 3>ever want to meet why? And so I'm navigating some

0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:59.760
<v Speaker 3>mental health things at this time, But I'm also just

0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.639
<v Speaker 3>out going viral. So I'm getting things from both sides.

0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:08.960
<v Speaker 3>And as I am going viral on my Facebook page

0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:11.520
<v Speaker 3>because that that video I made about dinner roof got

0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:17.520
<v Speaker 3>about one hundred thousand views on Facebook, I'm taking literal

0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:23.600
<v Speaker 3>cutting paste from what's being said to me. About the Confederacy,

0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:27.600
<v Speaker 3>about you know, on white supremacy, and I'm saying it

0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:32.480
<v Speaker 3>as my avatar Lucia's twenty five, and I'm just watching

0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:36.480
<v Speaker 3>it get applauded. I'm watching it get lauded and hand

0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:41.000
<v Speaker 3>clapped and all that stuff. My profile picture was John Carter,

0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:45.880
<v Speaker 3>who was a Confederate soldier in the old John Carter

0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:48.680
<v Speaker 3>of Mars novels right, and Marvel picked it up, and

0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:50.879
<v Speaker 3>the image that I got was from Marvel. But the

0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:54.800
<v Speaker 3>bottom line was that was one of the most inciting incidents.

0:21:55.560 --> 0:22:02.920
<v Speaker 3>And I remember not realizing that I was slipping into

0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:08.120
<v Speaker 3>darkness and I lost two relationships because of the head

0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:10.680
<v Speaker 3>trauma that I got out of that. I didn't mention that,

0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:15.439
<v Speaker 3>and I did end up in therapy over that. But

0:22:15.520 --> 0:22:18.560
<v Speaker 3>it was all about me figuring out an existential threat.

0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:21.720
<v Speaker 3>The talk was about compassion. I was there for reconnaissance.

0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:28.800
<v Speaker 1>So I do want to circle back to the show

0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:31.080
<v Speaker 1>I was there, and I want to get your thoughts

0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:33.920
<v Speaker 1>on critical race theory. And I do want to also

0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:37.440
<v Speaker 1>because I know this term that you use. It's called

0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:41.160
<v Speaker 1>decolonizing the narrative, and I love the eloquence of that term.

0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:43.080
<v Speaker 1>So I want you to break that down for us

0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:46.840
<v Speaker 1>as well as I have. There's so much that we

0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:49.359
<v Speaker 1>need to talk about. Man, this is a fantastic conversation.

0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:54.399
<v Speaker 1>But for now, let us take a pause for the cause.

0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:57.359
<v Speaker 1>I need you to stick around because obviously we have

0:22:57.400 --> 0:22:58.560
<v Speaker 1>a lot more in store.