1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:24,156 Speaker 1: Pushkin, Maggie Rogers has never been one demns words. Aside 2 00:00:24,156 --> 00:00:27,756 Speaker 1: from her powerhouse voice, one of Maggie's superpowers is her 3 00:00:27,756 --> 00:00:32,436 Speaker 1: ability to write pop songs fueled by radical emotional transparency. 4 00:00:33,116 --> 00:00:35,836 Speaker 1: And while it's thrilling when an artist bears their soul, 5 00:00:36,276 --> 00:00:41,596 Speaker 1: that level of constant vulnerability can be unsustainable. In twenty nineteen, 6 00:00:41,676 --> 00:00:44,876 Speaker 1: after releasing her Grammy nominated debut Heard It in a 7 00:00:44,916 --> 00:00:48,916 Speaker 1: Past Life and then touring the album relentlessly, Maggie was 8 00:00:49,036 --> 00:00:52,756 Speaker 1: desperately in need of time away from the spotlight. Just 9 00:00:52,836 --> 00:00:55,396 Speaker 1: before the pandemic, She retreated to her parents' home in 10 00:00:55,516 --> 00:00:59,556 Speaker 1: coastal Maine. There she began writing and recording her follow 11 00:00:59,636 --> 00:01:03,956 Speaker 1: up album, Surrender. Maggie also started to think deeply about 12 00:01:03,956 --> 00:01:06,716 Speaker 1: her role as a pop star and the relationship between 13 00:01:06,756 --> 00:01:10,956 Speaker 1: herself and her audience. In twenty twenty one, she enrolled 14 00:01:10,956 --> 00:01:13,916 Speaker 1: in a master's program of Religion and Public Life at 15 00:01:13,956 --> 00:01:18,716 Speaker 1: Harvard Divinity School. There, her studies focused on the spirituality 16 00:01:18,716 --> 00:01:22,956 Speaker 1: of public gatherings and the ethics of power and pop culture. 17 00:01:23,716 --> 00:01:26,956 Speaker 1: On today's episode, producer Leah Rose talks to Maggie Rogers 18 00:01:27,036 --> 00:01:29,196 Speaker 1: about how comforting it was for her to become a 19 00:01:29,276 --> 00:01:33,116 Speaker 1: student again. Maggie also recalls the time she took motorcycle 20 00:01:33,196 --> 00:01:36,916 Speaker 1: lessons to rechannel the massive amounts of adrenaline she experienced 21 00:01:36,916 --> 00:01:39,796 Speaker 1: on her first tour. And We'll hear the song from 22 00:01:39,876 --> 00:01:43,716 Speaker 1: Maggie's new album that she says is the perfect distillation 23 00:01:44,196 --> 00:01:49,636 Speaker 1: of where she is now as an artist. This is 24 00:01:49,756 --> 00:01:53,596 Speaker 1: broken record liner notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. 25 00:01:54,356 --> 00:01:58,196 Speaker 1: Here's Leah Rose with Maggie Rogers. What's going on. How 26 00:01:58,236 --> 00:02:01,796 Speaker 1: are you feeling. I'm good. I'm so excited to be 27 00:02:01,836 --> 00:02:04,996 Speaker 1: back in the flow again. I took August and September 28 00:02:05,036 --> 00:02:08,196 Speaker 1: to sort of more in the release and sort of 29 00:02:08,196 --> 00:02:12,556 Speaker 1: recover from a big summer, and things are feeling really 30 00:02:12,596 --> 00:02:17,076 Speaker 1: exciting again. And work two weeks from going back on 31 00:02:17,116 --> 00:02:19,636 Speaker 1: tour when I've only really played three or four shows 32 00:02:19,636 --> 00:02:24,756 Speaker 1: since the pandemic started. So I'm just so excited for that. 33 00:02:24,916 --> 00:02:28,476 Speaker 1: And in the heat of all of the planning and 34 00:02:29,396 --> 00:02:33,156 Speaker 1: fun goodness, band practice starts next week, so I'm feeling 35 00:02:33,236 --> 00:02:37,756 Speaker 1: really excited about it. All excellent. So the show is 36 00:02:37,756 --> 00:02:40,876 Speaker 1: called the Farrell Joy Tour, and that for me personally, 37 00:02:40,916 --> 00:02:42,876 Speaker 1: I feel like that's like a high bar to hit 38 00:02:42,996 --> 00:02:45,916 Speaker 1: every single night. So how do you muster up Farrell 39 00:02:46,036 --> 00:02:48,316 Speaker 1: Joy night after night? How do you get to that 40 00:02:48,356 --> 00:02:51,476 Speaker 1: place where you're just able to give that on stage 41 00:02:52,196 --> 00:02:56,676 Speaker 1: Farrell Joy? To me, it's not just pure happiness, So 42 00:02:56,716 --> 00:02:58,876 Speaker 1: you're asking about how do I conjure that on stage? 43 00:02:58,916 --> 00:03:03,756 Speaker 1: It's not like going on stage and being the happiest 44 00:03:03,756 --> 00:03:07,716 Speaker 1: girl you've ever seen, although playing music often makes me 45 00:03:07,796 --> 00:03:11,916 Speaker 1: that person. It's about being present, and so much of 46 00:03:12,116 --> 00:03:15,436 Speaker 1: playing shows, I really think is a practice of presence 47 00:03:15,436 --> 00:03:18,676 Speaker 1: and you let the show unfold. And the thing that 48 00:03:18,756 --> 00:03:22,396 Speaker 1: I love about shows is that it's really is uncontrollable 49 00:03:22,756 --> 00:03:26,196 Speaker 1: and it's something that you can't repeat because each setting, 50 00:03:26,316 --> 00:03:29,876 Speaker 1: each crowd, each single person in that room makes a 51 00:03:29,916 --> 00:03:33,116 Speaker 1: real difference for what that show feels like and how 52 00:03:33,156 --> 00:03:38,076 Speaker 1: that show unfolds. So the pressure of conjuring something each 53 00:03:38,196 --> 00:03:42,356 Speaker 1: night doesn't feel so high because on stage is the 54 00:03:42,396 --> 00:03:44,796 Speaker 1: place where I feel the most like myself and the 55 00:03:44,836 --> 00:03:47,436 Speaker 1: most free, and I really am able to just let go, 56 00:03:48,116 --> 00:03:50,436 Speaker 1: and I often have very little memory of being on 57 00:03:50,476 --> 00:03:54,396 Speaker 1: stage because I am in such a flow other state. Yeah, 58 00:03:54,436 --> 00:03:57,996 Speaker 1: So it really is just about letting the music come 59 00:03:58,036 --> 00:04:02,036 Speaker 1: through and really enjoying it after not getting to do 60 00:04:02,076 --> 00:04:04,876 Speaker 1: it for the last three years. When did you discover 61 00:04:04,996 --> 00:04:07,236 Speaker 1: that that on stage is the place where you feel 62 00:04:07,276 --> 00:04:09,796 Speaker 1: most like yourself? How old were you, like, when did 63 00:04:09,836 --> 00:04:12,676 Speaker 1: that realization come to you? I think it's more that 64 00:04:12,716 --> 00:04:17,636 Speaker 1: when I'm singing, I feel really present, because this idea 65 00:04:17,636 --> 00:04:20,716 Speaker 1: of performing or entertaining never really felt right to me, 66 00:04:20,756 --> 00:04:24,236 Speaker 1: and I always felt really shy from it because it 67 00:04:24,276 --> 00:04:28,156 Speaker 1: has this sort of connotation of putting something on. And 68 00:04:28,916 --> 00:04:32,756 Speaker 1: when I'm singing, I just feel so connected. I mean, 69 00:04:32,796 --> 00:04:36,436 Speaker 1: when you tell someone how you feel, you can use 70 00:04:36,476 --> 00:04:38,636 Speaker 1: words to explain it, but to me, when you sing 71 00:04:39,076 --> 00:04:42,436 Speaker 1: and you have that real resonant frequency, you can physically 72 00:04:42,476 --> 00:04:45,956 Speaker 1: show someone how you're feeling. For me, I'm just a 73 00:04:45,996 --> 00:04:49,396 Speaker 1: person that feels a lot of things a lot of 74 00:04:49,436 --> 00:04:53,396 Speaker 1: the time, and when I sing or when I'm on stage, 75 00:04:54,076 --> 00:04:57,236 Speaker 1: it's a real space of expression. It's a space where 76 00:04:57,276 --> 00:05:01,196 Speaker 1: I can let it out somewhere in a real constructive 77 00:05:01,236 --> 00:05:05,196 Speaker 1: way and like connective way, because I think when you 78 00:05:05,236 --> 00:05:08,556 Speaker 1: feel that much, it can often be kind of isolating. 79 00:05:08,636 --> 00:05:11,316 Speaker 1: But the thing that music does is it it brings 80 00:05:11,316 --> 00:05:15,116 Speaker 1: people together and reminds people of their central human qualities. 81 00:05:15,876 --> 00:05:19,676 Speaker 1: Everybody knows what it's like to feel sad or happy, 82 00:05:19,876 --> 00:05:22,996 Speaker 1: you know both, or have a crush or fall in 83 00:05:23,036 --> 00:05:27,596 Speaker 1: love maybe, or have that like first Butterfly. So I 84 00:05:27,636 --> 00:05:30,756 Speaker 1: think when I write down my innermost feelings and put 85 00:05:30,756 --> 00:05:33,076 Speaker 1: them out there for the world, it also means a 86 00:05:33,116 --> 00:05:38,516 Speaker 1: lot live when other people sort of say that it 87 00:05:38,556 --> 00:05:42,836 Speaker 1: resonates with them too, because it makes me also feel 88 00:05:43,036 --> 00:05:46,076 Speaker 1: like a part of a community. What happens after the shows, 89 00:05:46,236 --> 00:05:49,236 Speaker 1: like where does that adrenaline go? And when you're not 90 00:05:49,436 --> 00:05:52,316 Speaker 1: performing regularly, is there a way that you can replicate 91 00:05:52,636 --> 00:05:56,836 Speaker 1: that feeling off the road. No, there's nothing like the 92 00:05:56,876 --> 00:05:59,916 Speaker 1: adrenaline from a show, but I think that there are 93 00:05:59,956 --> 00:06:04,156 Speaker 1: things that can touch it. After my first tour in 94 00:06:04,236 --> 00:06:07,876 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen for my EP now that the Light is fading, 95 00:06:07,996 --> 00:06:13,356 Speaker 1: I went to motorcycle school and was using motorcycles as 96 00:06:13,436 --> 00:06:16,836 Speaker 1: a way to moderate my adrenaline when I was off 97 00:06:16,916 --> 00:06:20,156 Speaker 1: the road, because I found that if I fully crashed 98 00:06:20,836 --> 00:06:23,836 Speaker 1: like you're when you're getting an input of adrenaline every night, 99 00:06:23,876 --> 00:06:26,116 Speaker 1: you start just living on this sort of other plane. 100 00:06:26,556 --> 00:06:31,556 Speaker 1: And if you can normalize that, it can be somehow sustainable. 101 00:06:32,076 --> 00:06:36,276 Speaker 1: But the second you come down, your body starts to crash, 102 00:06:36,476 --> 00:06:40,836 Speaker 1: and because you're exhausted, your adrenals are shot, adrenaline burns 103 00:06:40,956 --> 00:06:45,316 Speaker 1: through everything you've eaten that day. It's essentially a panic response. 104 00:06:46,036 --> 00:06:48,236 Speaker 1: And so it would be really really hard if I 105 00:06:48,276 --> 00:06:49,956 Speaker 1: had like a week off of tour, if I came 106 00:06:49,996 --> 00:06:52,276 Speaker 1: all the way down and then had to push all 107 00:06:52,316 --> 00:06:54,596 Speaker 1: the way back up. So I started looking for ways 108 00:06:54,676 --> 00:06:57,116 Speaker 1: that I could in some sort of healthy or safe way. 109 00:06:57,636 --> 00:07:01,156 Speaker 1: When I'm talking about motorcycles, I'm writing like with full gear, 110 00:07:01,516 --> 00:07:04,596 Speaker 1: helmet pads and like thirty miles an hour on a 111 00:07:04,636 --> 00:07:07,196 Speaker 1: back road with no one on it. Like I'm not 112 00:07:07,516 --> 00:07:10,796 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles on a motorcycle, but like full leather, 113 00:07:11,196 --> 00:07:14,756 Speaker 1: like had to doe motorcycle gadding. Yeah, I will protect 114 00:07:14,756 --> 00:07:17,756 Speaker 1: it here, and I will say, like it's not really 115 00:07:17,756 --> 00:07:19,516 Speaker 1: a part of my life anymore. But when I was 116 00:07:19,596 --> 00:07:21,836 Speaker 1: learning to tour, when I was like twenty two to 117 00:07:21,916 --> 00:07:25,076 Speaker 1: twenty five, it certainly was Wow, we'll see what happened. 118 00:07:25,116 --> 00:07:27,036 Speaker 1: I guess. I haven't really been on the road since then, though, 119 00:07:27,116 --> 00:07:30,076 Speaker 1: so we'll see what happens in this chapter. Yeah, I 120 00:07:30,076 --> 00:07:32,276 Speaker 1: think it's just really nice to go do something else, 121 00:07:33,156 --> 00:07:36,196 Speaker 1: to put myself in a new situation, or go learn 122 00:07:36,276 --> 00:07:39,236 Speaker 1: about something or be around a group of people that 123 00:07:39,316 --> 00:07:42,236 Speaker 1: have absolutely nothing to do with music. It makes it 124 00:07:42,316 --> 00:07:44,836 Speaker 1: like really gratifying when I come back to music and 125 00:07:44,876 --> 00:07:47,036 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I actually really know what I'm talking 126 00:07:47,036 --> 00:07:50,836 Speaker 1: about here, or like this is the space where I've 127 00:07:50,836 --> 00:07:54,316 Speaker 1: worked really hard over a lot of years to know 128 00:07:54,476 --> 00:07:58,276 Speaker 1: this stuff. It makes me appreciate my skill set, I think. 129 00:07:58,636 --> 00:08:00,756 Speaker 1: But it also reminds me that there is a world 130 00:08:00,756 --> 00:08:04,116 Speaker 1: outside of music, because I think for the people that 131 00:08:04,796 --> 00:08:07,396 Speaker 1: sort of treat it like a religion and eat, sleep, 132 00:08:07,436 --> 00:08:11,116 Speaker 1: breathe it every day, there is quite a bubble. And 133 00:08:11,636 --> 00:08:13,796 Speaker 1: you know, one of the best things about grad school 134 00:08:14,036 --> 00:08:17,676 Speaker 1: was like realizing that most of my best friends at 135 00:08:17,716 --> 00:08:20,916 Speaker 1: school listen to music like in the background when they 136 00:08:20,916 --> 00:08:23,156 Speaker 1: were cooking, and they didn't think about who wrote or 137 00:08:23,196 --> 00:08:26,716 Speaker 1: produced it, And I think, I can, I'm so insular, 138 00:08:26,796 --> 00:08:28,796 Speaker 1: like who played that guitar and what preempt did it 139 00:08:28,876 --> 00:08:31,796 Speaker 1: run through? And like it was really nice to remember 140 00:08:31,836 --> 00:08:35,636 Speaker 1: that the way that other people listen to music, and 141 00:08:35,636 --> 00:08:38,996 Speaker 1: there's no like good or bad or hierarchy out of it. 142 00:08:39,036 --> 00:08:41,356 Speaker 1: I think that for better or for worse, there is 143 00:08:41,356 --> 00:08:43,836 Speaker 1: a bubble, and there's a lot more happening in the 144 00:08:43,876 --> 00:08:47,796 Speaker 1: world than just who produced that record? Or what's the 145 00:08:47,836 --> 00:08:51,396 Speaker 1: top song on Spotify, Like it's nice to sort of 146 00:08:51,436 --> 00:08:55,316 Speaker 1: zoom out a little bit. I read an interview with 147 00:08:55,356 --> 00:08:58,956 Speaker 1: you on the Harvard Divinity site and it said that 148 00:08:59,036 --> 00:09:02,636 Speaker 1: you want to be in school forever, which is something 149 00:09:02,716 --> 00:09:04,716 Speaker 1: I totally agree with. I want to be in school 150 00:09:04,716 --> 00:09:08,276 Speaker 1: forever too. There's so much to learn about, Like the 151 00:09:08,316 --> 00:09:12,356 Speaker 1: world is crazy and humans have existed for a long time. 152 00:09:12,396 --> 00:09:15,876 Speaker 1: The earth has existed for even longer. It's also worth saying, 153 00:09:15,916 --> 00:09:18,516 Speaker 1: like I don't think that going to school is the 154 00:09:18,556 --> 00:09:22,676 Speaker 1: only way to learn, you know, there are so many 155 00:09:22,716 --> 00:09:26,956 Speaker 1: other ways to access information or to do that kind 156 00:09:26,996 --> 00:09:30,996 Speaker 1: of study. I also really thrive in environments with the structure, 157 00:09:31,756 --> 00:09:34,076 Speaker 1: and I am a little bit type A and like 158 00:09:34,476 --> 00:09:37,636 Speaker 1: do really well with homework when somethings do you know, 159 00:09:37,716 --> 00:09:40,396 Speaker 1: even on like a major label system, like the record 160 00:09:40,436 --> 00:09:42,716 Speaker 1: is still do at a certain time, and art deadlines 161 00:09:42,756 --> 00:09:45,596 Speaker 1: have the sort of like necessary push and pull. Yeah, 162 00:09:45,636 --> 00:09:49,436 Speaker 1: but yeah, I just I love school, and it was 163 00:09:49,476 --> 00:09:52,476 Speaker 1: really nice, Like I think at the end of that 164 00:09:52,916 --> 00:09:55,556 Speaker 1: past life cycle, you know, I really went to school 165 00:09:55,556 --> 00:09:59,156 Speaker 1: to think about touring and to think about my career 166 00:09:59,636 --> 00:10:01,756 Speaker 1: and think about what it means to be an artist 167 00:10:01,796 --> 00:10:04,516 Speaker 1: and to put some structure to that and really spend 168 00:10:04,556 --> 00:10:09,636 Speaker 1: some like deep deep thinking time really figuring out what 169 00:10:09,756 --> 00:10:12,356 Speaker 1: I believe about music and what it means to be 170 00:10:12,356 --> 00:10:14,876 Speaker 1: an artist and what does a great show look like 171 00:10:14,956 --> 00:10:17,076 Speaker 1: and what is the quality of that connection and how 172 00:10:17,076 --> 00:10:19,756 Speaker 1: do you bring that to people. But it was also like, 173 00:10:19,836 --> 00:10:21,996 Speaker 1: at the end of that heard it of past life cycle, 174 00:10:22,636 --> 00:10:26,916 Speaker 1: my life felt really public and it was really nice. 175 00:10:26,996 --> 00:10:29,036 Speaker 1: You know, the first day of class, I'd be like, 176 00:10:29,036 --> 00:10:30,356 Speaker 1: why are you here. I'd be like, well, I made 177 00:10:30,356 --> 00:10:33,916 Speaker 1: a record about reincarnation and that would be like an 178 00:10:33,956 --> 00:10:38,076 Speaker 1: interesting fun fact for like four minutes. And then the 179 00:10:38,516 --> 00:10:42,036 Speaker 1: lack of knowledge that everybody collectively had about the subject 180 00:10:42,116 --> 00:10:45,796 Speaker 1: we were there to learn was this amazing equalizer and 181 00:10:46,476 --> 00:10:50,076 Speaker 1: I got to be just part of class. Yeah. I 182 00:10:50,116 --> 00:10:52,396 Speaker 1: think it's safe to say that most people, you know, 183 00:10:52,516 --> 00:10:54,996 Speaker 1: you finished, you've put out your first album or your 184 00:10:54,996 --> 00:10:58,156 Speaker 1: first major label album, you've done your first tour cycle, 185 00:10:58,236 --> 00:11:00,556 Speaker 1: whatever it is, all the promo or the press marketing. 186 00:11:01,156 --> 00:11:04,596 Speaker 1: Most people to learn more about the business if they 187 00:11:04,596 --> 00:11:06,956 Speaker 1: were so inclined to do that. Most people might study 188 00:11:06,996 --> 00:11:10,676 Speaker 1: old concert footage of you know, artists that they really 189 00:11:10,676 --> 00:11:13,756 Speaker 1: admire or watch a bunch of documentaries. How did you 190 00:11:13,796 --> 00:11:17,076 Speaker 1: get the idea to go to Harvard Divinity School? Like 191 00:11:17,516 --> 00:11:21,316 Speaker 1: why go the scholarly route? That school in particular was 192 00:11:21,516 --> 00:11:24,236 Speaker 1: there's like one program in the world, and I was 193 00:11:24,276 --> 00:11:27,676 Speaker 1: in its first class, which was a Masters of Religion 194 00:11:27,676 --> 00:11:32,036 Speaker 1: in Public Life, And it's for specifically people who don't 195 00:11:32,076 --> 00:11:34,676 Speaker 1: work in religion and don't intend to, with this idea 196 00:11:34,756 --> 00:11:37,516 Speaker 1: that a greater understanding of religion is a pathway to 197 00:11:37,596 --> 00:11:40,596 Speaker 1: just peace in the world. And so it was like 198 00:11:40,596 --> 00:11:43,396 Speaker 1: a peace and justice program in that I applied to 199 00:11:43,476 --> 00:11:45,876 Speaker 1: the summer after Black Lives Matter, like it doesn't like 200 00:11:46,476 --> 00:11:49,916 Speaker 1: the pieces line up fairly easily, and like it existed 201 00:11:49,956 --> 00:11:51,716 Speaker 1: in one place in the world, and like I was 202 00:11:51,756 --> 00:11:55,076 Speaker 1: really lucky they accepted me. There is an inherent power 203 00:11:55,156 --> 00:11:58,916 Speaker 1: dynamic when you're on stage, like you're on a like 204 00:11:59,036 --> 00:12:03,316 Speaker 1: elevated platform with a microphone, Like it's like and no 205 00:12:03,316 --> 00:12:05,876 Speaker 1: one else has a microphone, so you're in charge. And 206 00:12:05,956 --> 00:12:10,156 Speaker 1: I found that like I naturally have always cared about 207 00:12:10,356 --> 00:12:14,836 Speaker 1: human issues because I'm a human, and those human issues 208 00:12:14,876 --> 00:12:21,556 Speaker 1: to me are no gun violence or reproductive rights, or equality, 209 00:12:22,116 --> 00:12:26,956 Speaker 1: clean drinking water, really basic, making sure everyone has food 210 00:12:26,956 --> 00:12:31,676 Speaker 1: and shelter and access to rest. But I also find 211 00:12:31,756 --> 00:12:35,916 Speaker 1: sometimes that that like platform, being on stage, people were 212 00:12:35,956 --> 00:12:39,436 Speaker 1: asking me these sort of like unconventional questions about what 213 00:12:39,516 --> 00:12:43,236 Speaker 1: I believed, like what did I believe about immigration policy? 214 00:12:43,356 --> 00:12:45,436 Speaker 1: Or what did I believe was the right way to 215 00:12:45,476 --> 00:12:47,676 Speaker 1: like break up with someone, or like these questions that 216 00:12:47,716 --> 00:12:50,956 Speaker 1: you would like ask a religious figure or a political figure. 217 00:12:51,076 --> 00:12:56,556 Speaker 1: And I studied like music engineering and production, so I 218 00:12:56,636 --> 00:12:59,116 Speaker 1: sort of realized that I, like, like we do often 219 00:12:59,236 --> 00:13:03,436 Speaker 1: look to musicians culturally as mystics sometimes for having these 220 00:13:03,996 --> 00:13:06,956 Speaker 1: these answers to these bigger questions, And I think you 221 00:13:06,996 --> 00:13:09,556 Speaker 1: can really only answer for yourself, because that's what I 222 00:13:09,556 --> 00:13:13,196 Speaker 1: specialize in. Like maybe it's a little narcissistic, but I 223 00:13:13,276 --> 00:13:16,356 Speaker 1: really specialize in being able to notice and communicate how 224 00:13:16,436 --> 00:13:19,836 Speaker 1: I'm feeling, with the idea that like the most personal 225 00:13:20,156 --> 00:13:23,036 Speaker 1: is often the most universal if you can really be 226 00:13:23,156 --> 00:13:25,876 Speaker 1: honest about it. And I think it's cool too. That 227 00:13:25,996 --> 00:13:28,676 Speaker 1: was the thing that I really realized being around these 228 00:13:28,716 --> 00:13:32,916 Speaker 1: classmates who are just so stunning and brilliant and all 229 00:13:33,036 --> 00:13:36,876 Speaker 1: very different. I realized the thing that I'm good at 230 00:13:37,516 --> 00:13:42,716 Speaker 1: is really talking about how something feels. And luckily I 231 00:13:42,756 --> 00:13:46,436 Speaker 1: get to do that professionally. I read part of your 232 00:13:46,756 --> 00:13:50,356 Speaker 1: program was to do a live performance component, and then 233 00:13:50,396 --> 00:13:54,396 Speaker 1: that was your Coachella performance. No, the record was nearly 234 00:13:54,436 --> 00:13:57,596 Speaker 1: finished except for one song before I went to school. 235 00:13:57,876 --> 00:14:01,556 Speaker 1: Oh okay, So school didn't impact the creation of the 236 00:14:01,676 --> 00:14:04,636 Speaker 1: record at all, got it? Because the record making feels 237 00:14:04,676 --> 00:14:09,396 Speaker 1: really private and really personal and really introspective. Lot of 238 00:14:09,396 --> 00:14:11,876 Speaker 1: what I was doing was taking time to investigate the 239 00:14:11,956 --> 00:14:15,996 Speaker 1: more public sides of my life or career, which are 240 00:14:16,796 --> 00:14:19,716 Speaker 1: putting music out into the world and then touring it. 241 00:14:20,196 --> 00:14:24,476 Speaker 1: And so I'm in this phase right now where I'm 242 00:14:24,516 --> 00:14:28,796 Speaker 1: starting to integrate everything I learned in school and bring 243 00:14:28,836 --> 00:14:32,556 Speaker 1: it into this tour that I'm on right now. And 244 00:14:32,596 --> 00:14:36,396 Speaker 1: then I'm just like so excited for the next record 245 00:14:36,436 --> 00:14:39,596 Speaker 1: I make because it will be you know, that personal 246 00:14:39,596 --> 00:14:42,156 Speaker 1: component will be influenced by all of that growth from 247 00:14:42,236 --> 00:14:47,316 Speaker 1: that year. But now school like became a really it's interesting, 248 00:14:47,396 --> 00:14:50,276 Speaker 1: It became a really like fun headline for a lot 249 00:14:50,316 --> 00:14:55,116 Speaker 1: of people. But it was a very quiet personal process 250 00:14:55,156 --> 00:14:58,996 Speaker 1: as thinking about what you believe often is right, and 251 00:14:59,476 --> 00:15:03,116 Speaker 1: it doesn't have a ton to do with the record directly. 252 00:15:03,516 --> 00:15:06,396 Speaker 1: That makes sense, Although I will say I will say, actually, 253 00:15:06,436 --> 00:15:08,156 Speaker 1: maybe the thing that it does have to do with 254 00:15:08,196 --> 00:15:11,196 Speaker 1: the record is while I was making Surrender, I sort 255 00:15:11,236 --> 00:15:13,236 Speaker 1: of knew I was applying to grad school and knew 256 00:15:13,276 --> 00:15:15,476 Speaker 1: I was going to do it. And I think a 257 00:15:15,516 --> 00:15:22,196 Speaker 1: lot of Surrender I made really feeling divorced from any 258 00:15:22,276 --> 00:15:27,116 Speaker 1: form of career goal. It was really about the artistic 259 00:15:27,196 --> 00:15:32,316 Speaker 1: practice and my artistic goals. And like I'm realizing as 260 00:15:32,316 --> 00:15:35,396 Speaker 1: I'm talking about this that like there's definitely a part 261 00:15:35,436 --> 00:15:38,476 Speaker 1: of that knowing that I was about to go spend 262 00:15:38,476 --> 00:15:41,756 Speaker 1: a year outside of music that I think maybe even 263 00:15:42,036 --> 00:15:44,996 Speaker 1: could have empowered my creative process a little bit more 264 00:15:45,156 --> 00:15:49,516 Speaker 1: to stay outside of any sort of commercial or success goals. 265 00:15:50,196 --> 00:15:52,836 Speaker 1: Like I knew I was on my way out, and 266 00:15:52,956 --> 00:15:55,236 Speaker 1: I didn't know if i'd come back. You know, that 267 00:15:55,356 --> 00:15:57,916 Speaker 1: wasn't like set in Stone. I knew i'd put the 268 00:15:57,956 --> 00:16:02,076 Speaker 1: record out, but I don't know. I find a lot 269 00:16:02,116 --> 00:16:05,436 Speaker 1: of this business to be really disheartening. And I love 270 00:16:05,516 --> 00:16:08,316 Speaker 1: making music, but in thinking about what I believe and 271 00:16:08,356 --> 00:16:12,356 Speaker 1: what makes me happen, it's also thinking about the structures 272 00:16:12,396 --> 00:16:15,796 Speaker 1: around these things that I love and whether or not 273 00:16:15,876 --> 00:16:18,476 Speaker 1: it's necessary to do it commercially or not. As far 274 00:16:18,516 --> 00:16:19,996 Speaker 1: as like what's going to make me the happiest in 275 00:16:20,036 --> 00:16:22,716 Speaker 1: the long run. What's your favorite part of your job? 276 00:16:22,996 --> 00:16:25,636 Speaker 1: Considering everything you have to do as an artist as 277 00:16:25,636 --> 00:16:28,516 Speaker 1: a public person, what's your absolute favorite part of it. 278 00:16:28,836 --> 00:16:32,596 Speaker 1: I love making stuff, Like it's my favorite thing in 279 00:16:32,596 --> 00:16:36,876 Speaker 1: the whole world, whether it's writing songs, being in the studio, 280 00:16:37,916 --> 00:16:41,196 Speaker 1: getting to play shows. I love playing other people's shows. 281 00:16:41,876 --> 00:16:47,036 Speaker 1: Like my favorite part of performing is guesting what other 282 00:16:47,036 --> 00:16:49,556 Speaker 1: people shows because it's so much fun and so much 283 00:16:49,636 --> 00:16:52,276 Speaker 1: less pressure. But I'd say my favorite part is probably 284 00:16:52,276 --> 00:16:54,356 Speaker 1: being in the studio. It's probably the part I get 285 00:16:54,356 --> 00:16:57,156 Speaker 1: to do the least. Yeah, we have to take a 286 00:16:57,236 --> 00:16:59,356 Speaker 1: quick break and then we'll be back with more from 287 00:16:59,396 --> 00:17:06,436 Speaker 1: Maggie Rodgers and Leah Rose. We're back with more from 288 00:17:06,516 --> 00:17:10,996 Speaker 1: Leah Rose and Maggie Rodgers. When it came to starting Surrender, 289 00:17:11,036 --> 00:17:13,236 Speaker 1: what was the world that you envisioned in your mind 290 00:17:13,396 --> 00:17:17,356 Speaker 1: that started to come together and you started to realize, Okay, 291 00:17:17,396 --> 00:17:19,796 Speaker 1: this is the direction I want to go in, this 292 00:17:19,836 --> 00:17:21,716 Speaker 1: is the world I want to create. How did that 293 00:17:21,756 --> 00:17:25,476 Speaker 1: all start to come together for you? So I started 294 00:17:25,476 --> 00:17:27,796 Speaker 1: this record like I have started all the records, which 295 00:17:27,836 --> 00:17:31,676 Speaker 1: is with the mood board. It was really visceral feeling 296 00:17:32,396 --> 00:17:36,476 Speaker 1: like there's a smudgy red lipstick and a lot of 297 00:17:36,596 --> 00:17:40,796 Speaker 1: leather and silver, and but also a lot of images 298 00:17:40,796 --> 00:17:42,836 Speaker 1: of people sort of like in the middle of some 299 00:17:42,916 --> 00:17:47,076 Speaker 1: form of ecstasy or release. And that's sort of common 300 00:17:47,156 --> 00:17:51,156 Speaker 1: to other, you know, mood boards or records I've had, 301 00:17:51,196 --> 00:17:52,516 Speaker 1: but heard it in a past life. Was a lot 302 00:17:52,556 --> 00:17:55,036 Speaker 1: of like people in motion. There's a lot of like 303 00:17:55,236 --> 00:17:59,196 Speaker 1: dancers in motion. I like, whoever's listening to this, I 304 00:17:59,316 --> 00:18:03,996 Speaker 1: keep making this movement like I'm like, I keep sort 305 00:18:04,036 --> 00:18:07,356 Speaker 1: of overzoom, like reaching out my right hand and sort 306 00:18:07,356 --> 00:18:09,516 Speaker 1: of like looking up to the sky as I'm saying 307 00:18:09,636 --> 00:18:12,396 Speaker 1: in motion, which is a little bit ridiculous I heard 308 00:18:12,396 --> 00:18:15,476 Speaker 1: in the past. I've also felt very like airy and 309 00:18:15,836 --> 00:18:21,196 Speaker 1: deserty and through California, and I'm glad I was spending 310 00:18:21,236 --> 00:18:25,516 Speaker 1: my first time in La and Surrender. It feels far 311 00:18:25,676 --> 00:18:29,596 Speaker 1: earthier and maybe even a bit of fire, And it 312 00:18:29,676 --> 00:18:33,196 Speaker 1: was certainly grounded in New York and in the foggy 313 00:18:33,276 --> 00:18:37,396 Speaker 1: landscapes of Maine, and in the UK at Peter Gabriel's 314 00:18:37,396 --> 00:18:39,196 Speaker 1: Real World studios, where I made a lot of this record. 315 00:18:39,236 --> 00:18:42,596 Speaker 1: Too Cool. It wants to be really clear about what 316 00:18:42,636 --> 00:18:47,156 Speaker 1: I wanted to make before I got anyone else involved, 317 00:18:47,476 --> 00:18:50,636 Speaker 1: so I spent a lot of time gathering images and 318 00:18:50,676 --> 00:18:55,956 Speaker 1: then also doing like research on my own, making demos, 319 00:18:56,596 --> 00:19:00,196 Speaker 1: writing a bunch of songs. I wrote maybe a hundred 320 00:19:00,196 --> 00:19:04,196 Speaker 1: songs for this record, and even like I basically made 321 00:19:04,196 --> 00:19:09,076 Speaker 1: a sort of shittier second record that'll probably never come out, 322 00:19:09,556 --> 00:19:13,156 Speaker 1: like I made like light On Part two, like fully produced, 323 00:19:13,796 --> 00:19:18,556 Speaker 1: and then was like, okay, what else if that's the 324 00:19:18,636 --> 00:19:21,276 Speaker 1: first step forward, what's the next step? And was able 325 00:19:21,316 --> 00:19:24,076 Speaker 1: to sort of take that next artistically, if I think, 326 00:19:24,076 --> 00:19:27,716 Speaker 1: because I had spent all that time sort of cleaning 327 00:19:27,716 --> 00:19:31,916 Speaker 1: out what was ever in my brain. And then in 328 00:19:32,116 --> 00:19:35,356 Speaker 1: Maine still I where I lived for a lot of 329 00:19:35,356 --> 00:19:38,596 Speaker 1: the pandemic that summer, so it would have been summer 330 00:19:38,596 --> 00:19:43,036 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty, the first song started to come that 331 00:19:43,596 --> 00:19:45,836 Speaker 1: really felt like the mood board and really felt like 332 00:19:45,876 --> 00:19:49,676 Speaker 1: the world. And that first song was Anywhere with You, 333 00:19:50,036 --> 00:19:53,756 Speaker 1: And it was also like probably the last song we finished, too, 334 00:19:53,796 --> 00:19:58,876 Speaker 1: because it's a long technical ride from a production standpoint, 335 00:19:59,716 --> 00:20:03,316 Speaker 1: since so many of your songs feel so confessional, Yeah, 336 00:20:04,916 --> 00:20:07,036 Speaker 1: do you I wonder this like I wonder this with comedians, 337 00:20:07,076 --> 00:20:09,316 Speaker 1: like do you have moments in your life where you're 338 00:20:09,316 --> 00:20:13,156 Speaker 1: in maybe like a passionate moment, an intense moment with 339 00:20:13,196 --> 00:20:15,476 Speaker 1: another person, and you're like, this is a song, this 340 00:20:15,556 --> 00:20:19,196 Speaker 1: is a pre chorus, Like this is all getting recorded 341 00:20:19,596 --> 00:20:23,476 Speaker 1: tonight when I'm home. I don't, And I'm grateful for 342 00:20:23,556 --> 00:20:25,676 Speaker 1: that because that I think if I was in like 343 00:20:25,716 --> 00:20:27,516 Speaker 1: a fight with a friend and I was like, oh, 344 00:20:27,636 --> 00:20:29,156 Speaker 1: this is going to make such a good song, I 345 00:20:29,196 --> 00:20:32,876 Speaker 1: would be a psycho. Well, it's like Jerry Seinfeld. He's 346 00:20:32,916 --> 00:20:36,436 Speaker 1: like always working on material, Like every conversation is material, 347 00:20:36,556 --> 00:20:40,476 Speaker 1: Like nothing is personal. It's all material. When I get 348 00:20:40,516 --> 00:20:44,316 Speaker 1: to really feel like an artist, I am that way, 349 00:20:44,916 --> 00:20:47,236 Speaker 1: but like feeling like an artist feels like a certain 350 00:20:47,276 --> 00:20:50,196 Speaker 1: type of sunglasses I get to put on, where like 351 00:20:50,356 --> 00:20:53,236 Speaker 1: I'm noticing the light or the detail, or like the 352 00:20:53,276 --> 00:20:56,676 Speaker 1: way something taste. Sensuality is a big part of this record, 353 00:20:56,716 --> 00:20:58,636 Speaker 1: and for me, it's a big part of being an 354 00:20:58,676 --> 00:21:01,596 Speaker 1: artist because it's just really being tapped into the senses 355 00:21:01,636 --> 00:21:03,916 Speaker 1: and the way things feel. But a lot of my 356 00:21:03,996 --> 00:21:06,876 Speaker 1: job I'm also like, like I don't know a business 357 00:21:06,916 --> 00:21:09,876 Speaker 1: person or like an email intern or like you know, 358 00:21:10,516 --> 00:21:13,836 Speaker 1: when you make your art your career, there's other stuff 359 00:21:13,876 --> 00:21:18,036 Speaker 1: to just do. Yeah, But also what I would say 360 00:21:18,036 --> 00:21:20,596 Speaker 1: is a lot of my music is also looking back. 361 00:21:22,116 --> 00:21:27,556 Speaker 1: It's quite reflective, and I find like all art is reflective, 362 00:21:27,556 --> 00:21:29,196 Speaker 1: but a lot of it actually physically is in the 363 00:21:29,196 --> 00:21:32,356 Speaker 1: past tense, and I find when I look back, like 364 00:21:32,396 --> 00:21:35,316 Speaker 1: I wrote the last song for a Surrender and Thanksgiving 365 00:21:36,116 --> 00:21:38,636 Speaker 1: during school and I haven't written since then. It's been 366 00:21:38,636 --> 00:21:41,876 Speaker 1: almost a year. And when I go to write again, 367 00:21:41,956 --> 00:21:44,276 Speaker 1: I'll sort of like look back on that empty time 368 00:21:44,276 --> 00:21:47,516 Speaker 1: and pick out there are just like natural moments that 369 00:21:47,636 --> 00:21:49,916 Speaker 1: stick out in your memory from the last year if 370 00:21:49,956 --> 00:21:52,956 Speaker 1: you can think about them. And I really think about 371 00:21:53,476 --> 00:21:58,356 Speaker 1: making records as a form of archiving or cataloging. So 372 00:21:58,436 --> 00:22:00,156 Speaker 1: great to have that and to have a slice of 373 00:22:00,196 --> 00:22:03,596 Speaker 1: yourself preserved so you can look back and yeah, see 374 00:22:03,596 --> 00:22:05,716 Speaker 1: yourself and you have it going back since when you're 375 00:22:05,716 --> 00:22:08,356 Speaker 1: in high school. It's incredible. Yeah, I mean, it really 376 00:22:08,476 --> 00:22:11,756 Speaker 1: feels like going and visiting an old version of myself, 377 00:22:11,836 --> 00:22:14,716 Speaker 1: or like a childhood photo, where like you're looking at 378 00:22:14,716 --> 00:22:17,236 Speaker 1: this photo and you conceptually know it's you, but yeah, 379 00:22:17,276 --> 00:22:20,276 Speaker 1: it is a completely different person and it doesn't look 380 00:22:20,356 --> 00:22:24,116 Speaker 1: or feel anything like you. Yeah, it's really bizarre. It 381 00:22:24,156 --> 00:22:26,436 Speaker 1: feels like a snake shedding a skin, Like it feels 382 00:22:26,476 --> 00:22:30,076 Speaker 1: like that, that sort of shell in a way you 383 00:22:30,116 --> 00:22:34,076 Speaker 1: mentioned writing light on Part two. Yeah, do you remember 384 00:22:34,116 --> 00:22:36,676 Speaker 1: anything from that? I would love to hear where that 385 00:22:36,756 --> 00:22:39,796 Speaker 1: song went now that you have more experience in your 386 00:22:39,796 --> 00:22:43,436 Speaker 1: career has progressed. I remember it like it exists. It's 387 00:22:43,436 --> 00:22:46,156 Speaker 1: fully produced. I made it that summer of twenty twenty, 388 00:22:46,156 --> 00:22:49,356 Speaker 1: like I made a whole record oh of like songs 389 00:22:49,436 --> 00:22:52,356 Speaker 1: sort of like that, And then I was like, this 390 00:22:52,436 --> 00:22:54,876 Speaker 1: is so boring, Like I'm going to die if I 391 00:22:54,876 --> 00:22:57,516 Speaker 1: have to go tour this for another year. Was it 392 00:22:57,556 --> 00:22:59,796 Speaker 1: just because it was sort of like melancholy or it 393 00:22:59,876 --> 00:23:03,756 Speaker 1: wasn't reaching any new ground or what was boring about it? 394 00:23:03,756 --> 00:23:07,156 Speaker 1: It didn't feel new, it didn't feel challenging. It felt 395 00:23:07,196 --> 00:23:11,036 Speaker 1: like strong songwriting, but it sort of like it was 396 00:23:11,076 --> 00:23:14,836 Speaker 1: a little sweeter, like I don't know. It felt very 397 00:23:14,916 --> 00:23:18,676 Speaker 1: much like the character of Maggie Rogers in Hurt It 398 00:23:18,676 --> 00:23:20,916 Speaker 1: in a past life, but it didn't actually feel like 399 00:23:21,556 --> 00:23:25,276 Speaker 1: the person Maggie in the current moment I was in, 400 00:23:25,996 --> 00:23:28,116 Speaker 1: and I sort of had to like outgrow and kill 401 00:23:28,156 --> 00:23:32,076 Speaker 1: that character in order to like move forward and feel 402 00:23:32,076 --> 00:23:34,676 Speaker 1: like myself again, so it didn't have the teeth, didn't 403 00:23:34,676 --> 00:23:38,036 Speaker 1: have the smudge. Well it's not even about the teeth 404 00:23:38,116 --> 00:23:42,796 Speaker 1: or the smudge. It just wasn't honest, Like it was 405 00:23:42,836 --> 00:23:45,596 Speaker 1: what everybody wanted to hear from me, but it wasn't 406 00:23:45,596 --> 00:23:50,276 Speaker 1: how I actually felt. And that's the thing that I've 407 00:23:50,316 --> 00:23:53,556 Speaker 1: always sought to do, and my music is tell the truth, 408 00:23:54,356 --> 00:23:57,436 Speaker 1: and that's something I just like, I'm a very direct 409 00:23:57,596 --> 00:23:59,836 Speaker 1: person that can't hide a lot of motions for the 410 00:23:59,916 --> 00:24:04,716 Speaker 1: better or the worst. But I also think that the 411 00:24:04,756 --> 00:24:07,396 Speaker 1: second record is hard because people do have a real 412 00:24:08,116 --> 00:24:11,396 Speaker 1: conceptual notion and of who you are, and you're not 413 00:24:11,476 --> 00:24:14,276 Speaker 1: a product, You're a person, and you grow up and 414 00:24:14,356 --> 00:24:17,876 Speaker 1: you change, and sort of being true to who I 415 00:24:17,956 --> 00:24:19,836 Speaker 1: am or who I was when I was making this record, 416 00:24:19,876 --> 00:24:21,916 Speaker 1: I knew would also alienate some of the people that 417 00:24:21,956 --> 00:24:24,196 Speaker 1: fell in love with the artist I was on the 418 00:24:24,236 --> 00:24:25,996 Speaker 1: last record, and I had to just sort of like 419 00:24:26,716 --> 00:24:29,156 Speaker 1: let that go and really commit to making something that 420 00:24:29,276 --> 00:24:33,436 Speaker 1: I love and I'm really proud of, and that's what 421 00:24:33,476 --> 00:24:36,956 Speaker 1: I've always done, but it was it was a different 422 00:24:36,996 --> 00:24:41,036 Speaker 1: thing this round, or it just took a couple weeks 423 00:24:41,076 --> 00:24:42,876 Speaker 1: to sort of put myself in that headspace in a 424 00:24:42,876 --> 00:24:45,676 Speaker 1: different way because I had to really like it was 425 00:24:45,716 --> 00:24:49,396 Speaker 1: a bigger skin to shed because more people were holding 426 00:24:49,436 --> 00:24:52,276 Speaker 1: onto that skin. It wasn't just me anymore. What's your 427 00:24:52,316 --> 00:24:56,116 Speaker 1: relationship with your perceived audience in your mind? When you're 428 00:24:56,116 --> 00:25:01,396 Speaker 1: writing songs, they don't really exist because music is really 429 00:25:02,516 --> 00:25:06,916 Speaker 1: for me to process my life. When I get into 430 00:25:06,956 --> 00:25:11,876 Speaker 1: recording were when I'm writing with someone else, maybe that's it. 431 00:25:11,956 --> 00:25:14,596 Speaker 1: Like a lot of music are at alone, and a 432 00:25:14,596 --> 00:25:16,516 Speaker 1: lot of this record I got to write with Kid Arpoon, 433 00:25:16,636 --> 00:25:19,396 Speaker 1: which I just I love him so much. And it's 434 00:25:19,436 --> 00:25:21,436 Speaker 1: really a different thing to write with someone else because 435 00:25:21,436 --> 00:25:24,476 Speaker 1: it becomes social in the same way that playing music 436 00:25:24,596 --> 00:25:26,796 Speaker 1: is social. And even though I'm still writing all the 437 00:25:26,876 --> 00:25:29,596 Speaker 1: lyrics in the corner, I have a friend to push me, 438 00:25:29,756 --> 00:25:32,076 Speaker 1: or there's a friend to dream with, and suddenly you 439 00:25:32,156 --> 00:25:33,996 Speaker 1: get to the bridge and you're like, oh, this is 440 00:25:34,036 --> 00:25:36,716 Speaker 1: such a good thing to yell at with the crowd, 441 00:25:36,876 --> 00:25:39,516 Speaker 1: or like on stage, it'll sound like this on the record, 442 00:25:39,556 --> 00:25:42,276 Speaker 1: but on stage we can do this whole lot other 443 00:25:42,396 --> 00:25:44,436 Speaker 1: thing and it can open up, like you sort of 444 00:25:44,756 --> 00:25:47,756 Speaker 1: get to plant these doorways in the record that you know, 445 00:25:48,156 --> 00:25:51,076 Speaker 1: like in six to eight months, you're going to get 446 00:25:51,076 --> 00:25:53,076 Speaker 1: to open and the whole song is going to blast 447 00:25:53,116 --> 00:25:56,876 Speaker 1: open in this other way. Now that you've experienced more success, 448 00:25:56,916 --> 00:25:59,756 Speaker 1: you're a little further along in your career. How are 449 00:25:59,756 --> 00:26:04,316 Speaker 1: you feeling about the relationship between success and happiness. I 450 00:26:04,316 --> 00:26:07,676 Speaker 1: think it really depends on how you define success. For 451 00:26:07,756 --> 00:26:14,396 Speaker 1: me these days, is success is happiness on a day 452 00:26:14,396 --> 00:26:17,356 Speaker 1: to day basis. I mean, I think in light on, 453 00:26:17,476 --> 00:26:21,596 Speaker 1: like you're talking about, that song is really about something 454 00:26:21,596 --> 00:26:23,916 Speaker 1: I referenced earlier in the conversation, which is the sort 455 00:26:23,956 --> 00:26:28,916 Speaker 1: of like strange thing that happens when when you commodify 456 00:26:29,476 --> 00:26:32,556 Speaker 1: your own human emotions, which is what it means to 457 00:26:32,596 --> 00:26:37,516 Speaker 1: be a professional artist. And it's a really really bizarre thing. 458 00:26:37,756 --> 00:26:40,836 Speaker 1: Even though I'm like so grateful to do it or 459 00:26:40,876 --> 00:26:45,196 Speaker 1: to have the opportunity to do it, it's a it 460 00:26:45,276 --> 00:26:47,036 Speaker 1: made me feel really bad a lot of the time. 461 00:26:47,236 --> 00:26:51,036 Speaker 1: It was really dehumanizing, and I think now I just 462 00:26:51,116 --> 00:26:55,356 Speaker 1: have different boundaries with it, and if my success is 463 00:26:55,396 --> 00:26:59,876 Speaker 1: my own happiness, like I feel like, specifically in a 464 00:26:59,916 --> 00:27:01,996 Speaker 1: lot of times in the communities that I exist in, 465 00:27:03,036 --> 00:27:06,796 Speaker 1: which often our New York in LA in the music world, 466 00:27:07,676 --> 00:27:12,876 Speaker 1: there's this like insatiable feeling that nothing is ever enough. 467 00:27:13,916 --> 00:27:17,836 Speaker 1: You know. It's this very like capitalistic, forward looking tendency 468 00:27:17,876 --> 00:27:21,356 Speaker 1: if everything needs to be bigger, better, and like if 469 00:27:21,356 --> 00:27:23,276 Speaker 1: you sold this many tickets, it needs to be that 470 00:27:23,356 --> 00:27:26,076 Speaker 1: many next time. And I think the thing that I 471 00:27:26,116 --> 00:27:31,116 Speaker 1: really felt so grateful to feel a lot during the pandemic, 472 00:27:31,316 --> 00:27:35,596 Speaker 1: which was such a time of pain and also reflection 473 00:27:36,436 --> 00:27:39,076 Speaker 1: and grief and all this other stuff, is that I 474 00:27:39,116 --> 00:27:44,036 Speaker 1: really have enough. I think you feel successful when you 475 00:27:44,076 --> 00:27:46,476 Speaker 1: feel like you have enough, and I feel like I 476 00:27:46,516 --> 00:27:50,636 Speaker 1: have more than enough all the time. And so once 477 00:27:50,716 --> 00:27:54,596 Speaker 1: I could really define success for myself and feel like 478 00:27:54,676 --> 00:27:59,116 Speaker 1: I had enough, I got a lot better at saying 479 00:27:59,156 --> 00:28:03,556 Speaker 1: no to stuff I don't like to do. And that's great. Yeah, 480 00:28:03,556 --> 00:28:07,036 Speaker 1: it's really awesome. It means I might not like be 481 00:28:07,076 --> 00:28:09,636 Speaker 1: the biggest pop star in all the land, but I'm 482 00:28:09,716 --> 00:28:14,476 Speaker 1: so much happier and my life Mammy is certainly better 483 00:28:14,556 --> 00:28:19,596 Speaker 1: for it, and that looks like success to me. We'll 484 00:28:19,636 --> 00:28:22,036 Speaker 1: be right back with the rest of Leah Roses conversation 485 00:28:22,116 --> 00:28:29,356 Speaker 1: with Maggie Rogers after a quick break. Before we jump 486 00:28:29,436 --> 00:28:32,996 Speaker 1: back into Leah Roses conversation with Maggie Rogers, let's hear 487 00:28:33,036 --> 00:28:36,836 Speaker 1: Maggie's first single off her latest album, Surrender. Here's that's 488 00:28:36,876 --> 00:28:54,756 Speaker 1: where I am. I find reason cuff cut start on days, 489 00:28:55,316 --> 00:29:06,196 Speaker 1: could do this for mistakes that we made you we 490 00:29:06,476 --> 00:29:12,116 Speaker 1: were just friends. You could be waiting and I hated you. 491 00:29:12,436 --> 00:29:18,796 Speaker 1: That gave it a few years. You sat on your dance. 492 00:29:19,076 --> 00:29:27,636 Speaker 1: But I never gone over secrets. I gain all out 493 00:29:27,796 --> 00:29:37,596 Speaker 1: in the Wherever you Go, That's where I am. Boulders 494 00:29:37,916 --> 00:30:03,316 Speaker 1: turned into sever you go, that's you do, Coven Flowers. 495 00:30:04,476 --> 00:30:16,516 Speaker 1: I think, m then you want to see really show first. 496 00:30:20,956 --> 00:30:46,916 Speaker 1: She shea to Guessten, go shriek little food, signing that 497 00:30:49,916 --> 00:31:18,396 Speaker 1: me moders to see you. That's okay. Let's talk a 498 00:31:18,516 --> 00:31:21,116 Speaker 1: little bit about the first song you released off the 499 00:31:21,196 --> 00:31:24,276 Speaker 1: album That's where I Am. Where did that song come 500 00:31:24,356 --> 00:31:26,476 Speaker 1: from and why was that the first song that you 501 00:31:26,516 --> 00:31:29,596 Speaker 1: wanted to put out in the world. I think in 502 00:31:29,756 --> 00:31:32,636 Speaker 1: every record there is a song that feels like it 503 00:31:32,836 --> 00:31:36,836 Speaker 1: is the like perfect distillation, the like bulls eye of 504 00:31:36,996 --> 00:31:41,036 Speaker 1: everything you're shooting for esthetically, and that song is that 505 00:31:41,196 --> 00:31:43,596 Speaker 1: for me. When I listened to that song, it just 506 00:31:44,036 --> 00:31:47,156 Speaker 1: sounds the most like me I've ever been able to 507 00:31:48,196 --> 00:31:51,396 Speaker 1: distill into a recording. And I wrote and produced that 508 00:31:51,436 --> 00:31:54,876 Speaker 1: song with Kid Harpoon at Real World. It was the 509 00:31:54,956 --> 00:31:57,636 Speaker 1: first song we did in our second day and it 510 00:31:57,876 --> 00:32:00,556 Speaker 1: was fast. I mean it was. It reminded me of 511 00:32:00,636 --> 00:32:05,636 Speaker 1: writing Alaska that like ten minutes start to finish, like 512 00:32:06,116 --> 00:32:10,876 Speaker 1: the words just like in chronological order themselves down. It 513 00:32:10,996 --> 00:32:14,716 Speaker 1: has every bit of my like little bit of edge, 514 00:32:15,516 --> 00:32:19,396 Speaker 1: has that like twelve string guitar nostalgia for all of 515 00:32:19,516 --> 00:32:23,516 Speaker 1: the like sixties seventies music I love. It's got these 516 00:32:23,676 --> 00:32:27,916 Speaker 1: big synths and sort of like wink to dance music 517 00:32:28,036 --> 00:32:30,876 Speaker 1: that is also such a part of the music that 518 00:32:30,996 --> 00:32:35,116 Speaker 1: I love and my musical DNA. Yeah, it just sounds 519 00:32:35,156 --> 00:32:37,716 Speaker 1: like the sort of adult version of who I am 520 00:32:37,876 --> 00:32:42,276 Speaker 1: and what I sound like on paper. And the song 521 00:32:42,796 --> 00:32:45,676 Speaker 1: is like every other song I've ever wrote, like a 522 00:32:45,796 --> 00:32:50,756 Speaker 1: story about some form of like love in my past, 523 00:32:51,196 --> 00:32:54,316 Speaker 1: but it also is about a lot of things at once. 524 00:32:54,676 --> 00:32:57,276 Speaker 1: Those are my favorite songs that like are more about 525 00:32:57,276 --> 00:33:00,916 Speaker 1: a feeling than they are about one thing in particular, 526 00:33:01,156 --> 00:33:04,196 Speaker 1: and they sort of that feeling is like this big 527 00:33:04,316 --> 00:33:07,316 Speaker 1: magnet that draws in all these smaller moments in my 528 00:33:07,436 --> 00:33:11,996 Speaker 1: life that to coalesce into one thing. And the thing 529 00:33:12,076 --> 00:33:14,716 Speaker 1: that I'll say about that song is. It's crazy. The 530 00:33:14,796 --> 00:33:17,876 Speaker 1: first time we played it live, not even with the crowd, 531 00:33:17,996 --> 00:33:19,876 Speaker 1: just the first time we as a band got to 532 00:33:19,956 --> 00:33:23,596 Speaker 1: put it together. It felt like such a testament to 533 00:33:23,716 --> 00:33:27,396 Speaker 1: how much I've grown as a songwriter, and also with 534 00:33:27,716 --> 00:33:29,996 Speaker 1: Tom too. I mean, I can't really talk about this 535 00:33:30,116 --> 00:33:33,036 Speaker 1: song without talking about our partnership. We wrote light On 536 00:33:33,116 --> 00:33:35,996 Speaker 1: together too, and I think watching us grow as a 537 00:33:36,076 --> 00:33:38,756 Speaker 1: songwriting and production duo also is a part of it. 538 00:33:39,516 --> 00:33:44,676 Speaker 1: The song just drives better. It's like if I was 539 00:33:44,836 --> 00:33:47,356 Speaker 1: making a pickup truck before. This is like a sports car, 540 00:33:47,636 --> 00:33:52,196 Speaker 1: like it's crazy with a band, it just drives really, 541 00:33:52,396 --> 00:33:55,156 Speaker 1: really well. And that's a thing when you bring a 542 00:33:55,236 --> 00:33:57,916 Speaker 1: song to a band, you really find that out. Because 543 00:33:58,276 --> 00:34:00,636 Speaker 1: I remember bringing There's a song on my EP called 544 00:34:00,716 --> 00:34:05,036 Speaker 1: Better and it was sort of like a last track 545 00:34:05,236 --> 00:34:07,156 Speaker 1: at the beginning of my career that sort of like 546 00:34:07,276 --> 00:34:10,916 Speaker 1: rounded off that EP. And it has always been really 547 00:34:10,956 --> 00:34:12,556 Speaker 1: hard to play with the band, and it's because it 548 00:34:12,676 --> 00:34:15,436 Speaker 1: was like a bedroom pop song and it wasn't really 549 00:34:15,596 --> 00:34:18,996 Speaker 1: made for a lot. It was made for headphones, it 550 00:34:19,156 --> 00:34:22,956 Speaker 1: wasn't made for the stage, and so much of this 551 00:34:23,116 --> 00:34:27,796 Speaker 1: record I specifically made to play live, and that has 552 00:34:27,876 --> 00:34:31,796 Speaker 1: been the whole other like best part of it. It's 553 00:34:31,916 --> 00:34:34,996 Speaker 1: such an exhilarating song. It does something crazy to me, 554 00:34:35,116 --> 00:34:39,036 Speaker 1: Like I listened, I was taking a walk the other 555 00:34:39,116 --> 00:34:40,796 Speaker 1: day and I was listening to that song and it 556 00:34:41,076 --> 00:34:44,436 Speaker 1: just like I have such an emotional response to it 557 00:34:44,596 --> 00:34:48,276 Speaker 1: because I can so deeply feel what you're talking about, 558 00:34:48,436 --> 00:34:50,596 Speaker 1: and it's a it's a raw nerve. It hits a 559 00:34:50,676 --> 00:34:53,756 Speaker 1: raw nerve. It was pretty raw when I was making 560 00:34:53,796 --> 00:34:57,356 Speaker 1: this whole record. I actually wrote Tom a thank you 561 00:34:57,436 --> 00:35:01,956 Speaker 1: note just to be like, yo, I know, I was 562 00:35:02,316 --> 00:35:06,276 Speaker 1: very intense we were making this record and whatever needed 563 00:35:06,316 --> 00:35:09,436 Speaker 1: to come out of me, Like I'm a different person now. Yeah. 564 00:35:09,956 --> 00:35:11,516 Speaker 1: I mean it's great that you have someone you can 565 00:35:11,596 --> 00:35:14,476 Speaker 1: be that open with. Yeah, totally. He's the best with 566 00:35:14,596 --> 00:35:17,316 Speaker 1: the song, Like that's where I am? Is that? Do 567 00:35:17,396 --> 00:35:20,156 Speaker 1: you get closure by writing that song from that situation 568 00:35:20,276 --> 00:35:22,836 Speaker 1: because that has to be a real situation. Yeah. I 569 00:35:22,916 --> 00:35:27,916 Speaker 1: get closure from writing always. It's like once I can 570 00:35:27,996 --> 00:35:31,116 Speaker 1: externalize it, it doesn't need to live inside of me anymore, 571 00:35:31,516 --> 00:35:34,676 Speaker 1: and that feels really powerful. Do you need the person 572 00:35:34,756 --> 00:35:36,236 Speaker 1: to hear it and then do you need to know 573 00:35:36,356 --> 00:35:40,356 Speaker 1: the person's reaction to the song? Oh? No, no, no, no, no, no, okay, 574 00:35:40,956 --> 00:35:44,556 Speaker 1: it's not about anyone else. I mean, I've always used 575 00:35:44,596 --> 00:35:48,476 Speaker 1: the pronoun you because I always found gender and songs 576 00:35:48,556 --> 00:35:51,596 Speaker 1: to be limiting. I don't use a lot of he 577 00:35:51,796 --> 00:35:55,756 Speaker 1: or she because I find gender really limiting and songs. 578 00:35:55,956 --> 00:35:58,396 Speaker 1: But no, I don't care if people hear it or not. 579 00:35:59,676 --> 00:36:03,396 Speaker 1: It's not really for that. If I wanted to tell 580 00:36:03,516 --> 00:36:07,036 Speaker 1: someone something, I would just call them. This is not 581 00:36:07,276 --> 00:36:11,756 Speaker 1: for like some sort of very mature Yeah. I told 582 00:36:11,836 --> 00:36:15,076 Speaker 1: you at the beginning. I'm a really direct communicator. That's 583 00:36:15,476 --> 00:36:17,356 Speaker 1: someone to know something, i'd call them. I wouldn't like 584 00:36:18,156 --> 00:36:21,676 Speaker 1: weird confess it in the song. Oh, I would be like, 585 00:36:21,836 --> 00:36:24,116 Speaker 1: this is the easiest way to get this off my chest. 586 00:36:24,196 --> 00:36:29,796 Speaker 1: And I hope that persons Oh man, well, hey I 587 00:36:29,876 --> 00:36:34,836 Speaker 1: have some work to do. Yeah we all. Would you 588 00:36:34,956 --> 00:36:38,276 Speaker 1: ever consider doing like a dance album, like an electronic 589 00:36:38,396 --> 00:36:41,556 Speaker 1: music album. Yeah, I'm really hungry for it right now, 590 00:36:41,716 --> 00:36:44,276 Speaker 1: and I'm sort of actively seeking it out because there 591 00:36:44,396 --> 00:36:46,676 Speaker 1: was a lot of electronic music at the beginning of 592 00:36:46,756 --> 00:36:50,436 Speaker 1: my career, and it feels like now what I'm really 593 00:36:50,516 --> 00:36:52,436 Speaker 1: hungry for. I guess we'll see how it all turns out, 594 00:36:52,476 --> 00:36:54,196 Speaker 1: and it ends up being about how much time I 595 00:36:54,276 --> 00:36:56,716 Speaker 1: have off the road. It takes me a couple of 596 00:36:56,716 --> 00:36:58,316 Speaker 1: weeks to come down from the road and get my 597 00:36:58,476 --> 00:37:02,556 Speaker 1: brain back. And because it's touring is so body heavy, 598 00:37:02,716 --> 00:37:06,876 Speaker 1: whereas recording is so brain heavy and also very like 599 00:37:07,036 --> 00:37:09,996 Speaker 1: spiritual to be completely honest, so it takes a little 600 00:37:09,996 --> 00:37:12,396 Speaker 1: bit while to like come back down to earth and integrate. 601 00:37:13,156 --> 00:37:15,236 Speaker 1: So again it depends on sort of like how much 602 00:37:15,276 --> 00:37:16,956 Speaker 1: time I'm left with to get to be in the studio. 603 00:37:17,076 --> 00:37:19,796 Speaker 1: But yeah, that is sort of where my brain is at. Actually, 604 00:37:20,396 --> 00:37:23,476 Speaker 1: how would you say your taste has evolved over the 605 00:37:23,556 --> 00:37:28,156 Speaker 1: course of your career. My taste has evolved largely with 606 00:37:28,516 --> 00:37:32,916 Speaker 1: the way technology is evolved, I think because when I 607 00:37:32,996 --> 00:37:36,076 Speaker 1: was growing up, like I grew up with tapes and 608 00:37:36,156 --> 00:37:41,676 Speaker 1: then CDs and then like illegal streaming and streaming, and 609 00:37:41,836 --> 00:37:44,636 Speaker 1: I think a lot of the way my taste has 610 00:37:44,716 --> 00:37:47,116 Speaker 1: changed has had to do with the way technology has 611 00:37:47,116 --> 00:37:50,436 Speaker 1: allowed access to music to shift. Other than that, I've 612 00:37:50,436 --> 00:37:52,756 Speaker 1: always listened to a ton of music. I mean, especially 613 00:37:52,956 --> 00:37:55,236 Speaker 1: in college or growing up, I listened to a ton 614 00:37:55,276 --> 00:37:58,876 Speaker 1: of R and B, listened to a ton of dance music. Yea. Honestly, 615 00:37:58,956 --> 00:38:01,396 Speaker 1: the last two years I really just listened to ambient music. 616 00:38:02,196 --> 00:38:04,196 Speaker 1: I think that's a sign of the times more than anything. 617 00:38:04,516 --> 00:38:10,676 Speaker 1: A lot of like Daniel Lanoir instrumentals, or Andrew Wassilik 618 00:38:10,796 --> 00:38:16,396 Speaker 1: or h Hunt or John Carol Kirby or there's this 619 00:38:17,036 --> 00:38:20,596 Speaker 1: organ record I love by this coming Callie Malone but 620 00:38:20,916 --> 00:38:24,316 Speaker 1: nice yeah, or the Eno Brothers. But I'm like, I 621 00:38:24,516 --> 00:38:28,156 Speaker 1: really just sort of do that. How did you first 622 00:38:28,196 --> 00:38:30,996 Speaker 1: come to music? Was the banjo your first instrument? No, 623 00:38:31,236 --> 00:38:33,796 Speaker 1: my first instrumance was harp, and then I played piano 624 00:38:33,796 --> 00:38:37,836 Speaker 1: and guitar. But I like got really scary obsessed with 625 00:38:37,956 --> 00:38:40,836 Speaker 1: classical music as a kid. Music was the only thing 626 00:38:40,836 --> 00:38:44,476 Speaker 1: I ever thought about ever, Like I guess I was 627 00:38:44,916 --> 00:38:47,356 Speaker 1: when I was When I was a kid, I also 628 00:38:47,436 --> 00:38:49,596 Speaker 1: wanted to be a writer, and I wrote a lot 629 00:38:49,636 --> 00:38:51,876 Speaker 1: of short stories, but that sort of like checks out, 630 00:38:52,396 --> 00:38:55,876 Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, I don't know. I was always really 631 00:38:55,916 --> 00:38:59,116 Speaker 1: into music. My mom told me that classical music was 632 00:38:59,196 --> 00:39:01,396 Speaker 1: telling stories and then I had to listen for them, 633 00:39:01,796 --> 00:39:05,116 Speaker 1: and that sort of really piqued my interest. And yeah, 634 00:39:05,116 --> 00:39:07,236 Speaker 1: I'd listen to makeup stories. And this idea that you 635 00:39:07,276 --> 00:39:11,156 Speaker 1: could illustrate emotion without saying anything was so fascinating to me, 636 00:39:11,556 --> 00:39:14,516 Speaker 1: and I still do that like a lot of this record, 637 00:39:15,556 --> 00:39:18,996 Speaker 1: the arrangements, you know, I think about a song like Symphony, 638 00:39:19,676 --> 00:39:25,756 Speaker 1: where my vocal is the like steady center to all 639 00:39:25,836 --> 00:39:31,076 Speaker 1: of this swirling sort of more dance influenced instrumental that 640 00:39:31,356 --> 00:39:34,156 Speaker 1: just keeps growing and growing and growing and getting more chaotic. 641 00:39:34,276 --> 00:39:38,276 Speaker 1: And that song is about trying to like be the 642 00:39:38,356 --> 00:39:40,836 Speaker 1: steady person for a friend who's sort of going through it. 643 00:39:41,396 --> 00:39:44,716 Speaker 1: So I try and like mirror that sensibility in my 644 00:39:44,836 --> 00:39:47,716 Speaker 1: work as much as possible. I'm curious about this. I 645 00:39:47,756 --> 00:39:49,036 Speaker 1: have a four and a half year old who just 646 00:39:49,076 --> 00:39:52,556 Speaker 1: started playing the violin. Oh my god, are you okay? 647 00:39:54,036 --> 00:40:01,676 Speaker 1: It's the smallest violin, and oh my gosh, it's incredible. 648 00:40:01,756 --> 00:40:03,676 Speaker 1: But how old were you when you start playing the harp? 649 00:40:03,796 --> 00:40:06,236 Speaker 1: Like that's a huge instrument. How does that happen? No, 650 00:40:06,556 --> 00:40:10,436 Speaker 1: there's a folk harp, So there's a small harp. Regular 651 00:40:10,516 --> 00:40:13,316 Speaker 1: harps are fucking huge and you have all these pedals 652 00:40:13,396 --> 00:40:15,956 Speaker 1: you move by your feet to change the sharps and flats, 653 00:40:15,996 --> 00:40:18,276 Speaker 1: and like I played that in New Orchestra in high school, 654 00:40:18,316 --> 00:40:21,116 Speaker 1: but when I was growing up, I played It's called 655 00:40:21,156 --> 00:40:23,396 Speaker 1: a folk harp. Which is about three feet tall, and 656 00:40:24,196 --> 00:40:27,716 Speaker 1: there are smaller levers on each string, so you change 657 00:40:27,796 --> 00:40:31,356 Speaker 1: the sharps and flats individually, okay, rather than by your feet, 658 00:40:31,396 --> 00:40:33,236 Speaker 1: so you sort of prepare the instrument. It's like a 659 00:40:33,316 --> 00:40:35,836 Speaker 1: prepared piano in a way. You prepared the instrument before 660 00:40:35,836 --> 00:40:38,196 Speaker 1: you sit down. But I mean, I haven't played harp 661 00:40:38,796 --> 00:40:41,876 Speaker 1: since I was eighteen, So ten years, do you think 662 00:40:41,876 --> 00:40:43,756 Speaker 1: you'd still be able to play it? I mean, I 663 00:40:43,916 --> 00:40:48,116 Speaker 1: understand how it works, but like, I also like the 664 00:40:48,276 --> 00:40:52,516 Speaker 1: craziest thing about becoming a professional musician is since I 665 00:40:52,596 --> 00:40:54,396 Speaker 1: have done that, nobody has asked me to read a 666 00:40:54,396 --> 00:40:57,716 Speaker 1: piece of music. So maybe I could play maybe not 667 00:40:57,956 --> 00:41:00,716 Speaker 1: Like I would probably say no, so nobody asks me 668 00:41:00,796 --> 00:41:04,756 Speaker 1: and puts me on the spot. Yeah. Was there anybody 669 00:41:04,796 --> 00:41:08,076 Speaker 1: in your family who was musical? No? My mom played 670 00:41:08,156 --> 00:41:12,036 Speaker 1: piano after we went to bed sometimes, and I think 671 00:41:12,116 --> 00:41:14,996 Speaker 1: she played growing up. But she loved music and what 672 00:41:15,196 --> 00:41:17,436 Speaker 1: always she was the one that like, she'd play me 673 00:41:17,476 --> 00:41:20,636 Speaker 1: Alanis Morrisett or Lauren Hill or Eric bad Or. She 674 00:41:20,756 --> 00:41:25,556 Speaker 1: loved outcast. Yeah, yeah, very sick. Shout out to Alice. 675 00:41:26,276 --> 00:41:29,196 Speaker 1: She had great taste. She still does, she really does. Yeah, 676 00:41:29,676 --> 00:41:32,356 Speaker 1: But yeah, other than that, Like nobody really liked played 677 00:41:32,396 --> 00:41:34,436 Speaker 1: or work to music in my family. And when you 678 00:41:34,516 --> 00:41:36,956 Speaker 1: say all you thought about was music as a little kid, 679 00:41:37,276 --> 00:41:39,196 Speaker 1: like were you thinking about it technically or are you 680 00:41:39,316 --> 00:41:41,996 Speaker 1: thinking about like how it made you thinking about it 681 00:41:42,036 --> 00:41:43,716 Speaker 1: all that time? I was thinking about it all the time. 682 00:41:44,276 --> 00:41:46,836 Speaker 1: Like when I got to high school, I used to 683 00:41:47,196 --> 00:41:52,036 Speaker 1: DJ middle school recess and I was like obsessed with 684 00:41:52,276 --> 00:41:54,796 Speaker 1: being able to hear a song on the radio and 685 00:41:54,876 --> 00:41:57,876 Speaker 1: be able to tell you like all of the producer, songwriters, 686 00:41:57,996 --> 00:42:00,516 Speaker 1: record label, what year came out like. It was really 687 00:42:00,556 --> 00:42:03,516 Speaker 1: like a sense of identity also, but I was like 688 00:42:03,636 --> 00:42:07,076 Speaker 1: just a I was the same that as I am now. 689 00:42:07,196 --> 00:42:10,716 Speaker 1: It's just a big nerd. I was just really into it, 690 00:42:11,076 --> 00:42:14,596 Speaker 1: and it was really all I thought about, like playing music, 691 00:42:15,556 --> 00:42:18,076 Speaker 1: who was playing music? Thinking about music? But I was 692 00:42:18,116 --> 00:42:22,196 Speaker 1: also really interested in like the business or what was happening, 693 00:42:22,796 --> 00:42:25,396 Speaker 1: Like you know, I'd watch d H one Top twenty 694 00:42:25,436 --> 00:42:28,556 Speaker 1: Countdown every week or yes, and then later I got 695 00:42:28,996 --> 00:42:31,956 Speaker 1: Spin or Rolling Stone and would read that cover to 696 00:42:32,036 --> 00:42:35,236 Speaker 1: cover and would look at all the charts and sort 697 00:42:35,236 --> 00:42:37,116 Speaker 1: of then go do my homework about you know, what 698 00:42:37,316 --> 00:42:40,036 Speaker 1: was on the college radio charts, and oh, I haven't 699 00:42:40,076 --> 00:42:41,636 Speaker 1: heard of that record, so I'd go look it up 700 00:42:41,756 --> 00:42:46,676 Speaker 1: or you know, nerds stuff. Yeah, I mean it seems 701 00:42:46,676 --> 00:42:48,996 Speaker 1: like such a blessing to know exactly what you want 702 00:42:49,036 --> 00:42:52,436 Speaker 1: to do so early. Yeah, I'm sure it was fucking 703 00:42:52,516 --> 00:42:57,916 Speaker 1: annoying to be around. Shout out to my siblings or 704 00:42:58,036 --> 00:43:01,196 Speaker 1: like anyone that was my friend during most days. Are 705 00:43:01,276 --> 00:43:03,396 Speaker 1: they all just like, yeah, of course she is who 706 00:43:03,516 --> 00:43:07,356 Speaker 1: she is now. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. And I 707 00:43:07,476 --> 00:43:09,996 Speaker 1: remember when I went to college too. I was studying 708 00:43:10,956 --> 00:43:12,916 Speaker 1: music production but also a lot of the music business, 709 00:43:13,076 --> 00:43:15,396 Speaker 1: and really, you know, like so many people have at 710 00:43:15,436 --> 00:43:18,356 Speaker 1: that time, being like, oh, these people are all all 711 00:43:18,436 --> 00:43:20,676 Speaker 1: the version, the nerd versions of me, you know, from 712 00:43:20,716 --> 00:43:23,516 Speaker 1: their high schools. That was special to start to find 713 00:43:23,556 --> 00:43:26,356 Speaker 1: community around that. I was at a wedding this left 714 00:43:26,396 --> 00:43:29,876 Speaker 1: past weekend and I saw some of my oldest friends 715 00:43:30,036 --> 00:43:32,156 Speaker 1: from when I was like eight or nine, and they 716 00:43:32,196 --> 00:43:35,556 Speaker 1: were like, yeah, dude, this is the least surprising thing 717 00:43:35,676 --> 00:43:41,196 Speaker 1: and that has happened, Like this is a big duh. Yeah. Yeah. 718 00:43:41,876 --> 00:43:44,436 Speaker 1: How old were you when you discovered your voice and 719 00:43:44,516 --> 00:43:47,596 Speaker 1: your vocal range the power of your voice. I have 720 00:43:47,796 --> 00:43:52,196 Speaker 1: a very concrete early memory of being my sister and 721 00:43:52,236 --> 00:43:55,316 Speaker 1: I shared a bathroom, but it had two sinks. I 722 00:43:55,436 --> 00:43:57,476 Speaker 1: have no idea how old I was, somewhere in between 723 00:43:57,556 --> 00:44:01,276 Speaker 1: three and five maybe, And I remember suddenly singing and 724 00:44:01,396 --> 00:44:04,196 Speaker 1: it sounding different like I had sang, you know, as 725 00:44:04,236 --> 00:44:07,876 Speaker 1: a kid whatever, and something happened this one time I 726 00:44:07,996 --> 00:44:10,556 Speaker 1: sang and I was like, Oh, that sounds really different, 727 00:44:10,676 --> 00:44:13,756 Speaker 1: and oh, this is a thing I can do. And 728 00:44:13,796 --> 00:44:16,356 Speaker 1: I remember my sister and I like having a conversation 729 00:44:16,476 --> 00:44:19,076 Speaker 1: about it about like both of us being like WHOA, 730 00:44:19,156 --> 00:44:22,836 Speaker 1: what was that like? And suddenly I could sing. And 731 00:44:24,156 --> 00:44:26,756 Speaker 1: I didn't really figure out that I had like a 732 00:44:27,236 --> 00:44:31,596 Speaker 1: big voice. I mean there were moments like I got 733 00:44:31,636 --> 00:44:34,036 Speaker 1: asked to sing Aretha Franklin with the jazz band in 734 00:44:34,116 --> 00:44:37,476 Speaker 1: high school and I pulled it off. But I still 735 00:44:37,756 --> 00:44:40,516 Speaker 1: didn't like really figure out that I or like have 736 00:44:40,716 --> 00:44:43,476 Speaker 1: the confidence to say that I was like a singer 737 00:44:44,476 --> 00:44:47,596 Speaker 1: honestly until touring heard it in a past life. I mean, 738 00:44:48,236 --> 00:44:52,916 Speaker 1: that song Falling Water was such a massive moment for me. 739 00:44:53,076 --> 00:44:57,876 Speaker 1: Understanding my vocal range, but also then having to perform 740 00:44:58,036 --> 00:45:01,316 Speaker 1: that song every night really changed the way I learned 741 00:45:01,436 --> 00:45:05,156 Speaker 1: or knew my voice because it really spans like my 742 00:45:05,516 --> 00:45:09,196 Speaker 1: entire vocal range, and oftentimes we'd start the show with it, 743 00:45:09,356 --> 00:45:12,116 Speaker 1: so it would just be like I would have to 744 00:45:12,236 --> 00:45:14,876 Speaker 1: really be ready for it. And I think you can 745 00:45:14,996 --> 00:45:17,836 Speaker 1: hear that vocal shift in this record. I mean when 746 00:45:17,836 --> 00:45:21,596 Speaker 1: I listened back to Surrender, my voice just sounds big, 747 00:45:22,036 --> 00:45:24,836 Speaker 1: and I really like, I know how to sing now 748 00:45:24,876 --> 00:45:27,676 Speaker 1: and I know my voice better and it's really fun 749 00:45:27,796 --> 00:45:30,796 Speaker 1: to use that instrument. How do you think about manipulating 750 00:45:30,836 --> 00:45:33,356 Speaker 1: your voice while you're singing? Is that something that just 751 00:45:33,676 --> 00:45:36,636 Speaker 1: is instantaneous. Yeah, It's not something I think about anymore. 752 00:45:36,756 --> 00:45:40,596 Speaker 1: It's so much more about just trying to communicate emotion effectively. 753 00:45:41,156 --> 00:45:43,716 Speaker 1: So cool, It's just like another yet another thing in 754 00:45:43,796 --> 00:45:48,116 Speaker 1: your toolbox. It's it's my favorite thing. But it's also 755 00:45:48,276 --> 00:45:51,316 Speaker 1: funny thing because singing, Like, at this point, I've spent 756 00:45:51,356 --> 00:45:53,556 Speaker 1: so much time, you know, I took vocal lessons as 757 00:45:53,556 --> 00:45:56,356 Speaker 1: a kid. I sang in choirs, I arranged for a 758 00:45:56,436 --> 00:45:59,636 Speaker 1: cappella groups, I like, sang with the jazz band. I 759 00:46:00,476 --> 00:46:03,396 Speaker 1: have played in punk bands and folk bands and rock 760 00:46:03,476 --> 00:46:06,876 Speaker 1: bands and college and DJ and I've done all this 761 00:46:06,956 --> 00:46:09,396 Speaker 1: stuff and now it's just like a thing can do. 762 00:46:10,196 --> 00:46:13,076 Speaker 1: Like it feels almost like a party trick, like it 763 00:46:13,196 --> 00:46:16,196 Speaker 1: doesn't take a lot of like, you know, I can sing, 764 00:46:16,516 --> 00:46:19,356 Speaker 1: like in the same way that some people are double jointed. 765 00:46:19,796 --> 00:46:22,556 Speaker 1: Like it's just a thing I can do. And you 766 00:46:22,636 --> 00:46:24,796 Speaker 1: have no reservations about singing in front of people. You 767 00:46:24,836 --> 00:46:28,596 Speaker 1: don't have any nerves or anything like that. No, I think, 768 00:46:28,676 --> 00:46:32,316 Speaker 1: like you know, I have played like Radio City and 769 00:46:32,636 --> 00:46:35,436 Speaker 1: the Sydney Opera House, and from there I know that, like, 770 00:46:35,956 --> 00:46:38,796 Speaker 1: this is a thing that I'm good at, like not 771 00:46:38,996 --> 00:46:42,076 Speaker 1: in like a cocky way, just like a I can sing, 772 00:46:42,396 --> 00:46:45,396 Speaker 1: I'm a good singer. I know that I am a 773 00:46:45,476 --> 00:46:48,156 Speaker 1: good singer, and it's really nice to do something that 774 00:46:48,916 --> 00:46:51,436 Speaker 1: you know that you can excel at. I also think 775 00:46:51,476 --> 00:46:53,156 Speaker 1: I've spent a lot of time in places where I 776 00:46:53,276 --> 00:46:57,636 Speaker 1: was new at things or you know, wasn't great at things. 777 00:46:58,236 --> 00:47:01,516 Speaker 1: And yeah, I know there's a lot of things in 778 00:47:01,596 --> 00:47:03,316 Speaker 1: my life I'm still working on. But I know that 779 00:47:03,396 --> 00:47:05,356 Speaker 1: singing is something I can do, and so I don't 780 00:47:05,396 --> 00:47:08,796 Speaker 1: really stress about it. So you talked about New York 781 00:47:08,836 --> 00:47:13,276 Speaker 1: City influencing in part Surrender. Do you see yourself ever 782 00:47:13,396 --> 00:47:15,996 Speaker 1: going back and living in a rural place Since you 783 00:47:16,356 --> 00:47:18,876 Speaker 1: originally grew up in a more rural area in Easton, 784 00:47:19,516 --> 00:47:21,876 Speaker 1: do you ever see yourself going back to a rural 785 00:47:21,956 --> 00:47:25,116 Speaker 1: place to live full time? These days, I sort of 786 00:47:25,196 --> 00:47:30,116 Speaker 1: lived between LA and Maine, and my heart lives not 787 00:47:30,316 --> 00:47:33,676 Speaker 1: in a city, even though I like love city energy, 788 00:47:34,516 --> 00:47:37,756 Speaker 1: But honestly, I don't get to be home very much. 789 00:47:38,436 --> 00:47:40,156 Speaker 1: And if I can be in a place that it 790 00:47:40,316 --> 00:47:43,996 Speaker 1: feels like quote unquote home while I'm working and pick 791 00:47:44,076 --> 00:47:46,876 Speaker 1: up a couple more days in a comfortable, familiar spot, 792 00:47:47,276 --> 00:47:51,316 Speaker 1: I'll take it. So like La does not in any 793 00:47:51,396 --> 00:47:54,916 Speaker 1: way and probably never will feel like home. It's never 794 00:47:54,956 --> 00:47:56,676 Speaker 1: a place side in the map I would have chosen 795 00:47:56,716 --> 00:47:59,316 Speaker 1: to be, even though I've come to like love things 796 00:47:59,316 --> 00:48:01,436 Speaker 1: about it or have great friends or community here, But 797 00:48:02,276 --> 00:48:04,436 Speaker 1: I have felt way more at home in New York City. 798 00:48:04,596 --> 00:48:07,956 Speaker 1: Like New York, I'm an East Coaster, Like I just 799 00:48:08,076 --> 00:48:11,396 Speaker 1: lived in Boston free year and I loved it, and 800 00:48:11,516 --> 00:48:13,756 Speaker 1: I have. I always am like curious about like resonant 801 00:48:13,876 --> 00:48:18,516 Speaker 1: places where people have resonance, not residents, but resonance, Like 802 00:48:18,636 --> 00:48:23,236 Speaker 1: the places that really like resonate with you, like the 803 00:48:23,596 --> 00:48:26,316 Speaker 1: way that the earth speaks. I think honestly because I 804 00:48:26,396 --> 00:48:29,676 Speaker 1: grew up in the marshland at like one hundred percent humidity, 805 00:48:30,516 --> 00:48:33,956 Speaker 1: LA's just really dry for me, Like I just like 806 00:48:34,716 --> 00:48:38,276 Speaker 1: I'm not a desert girl. It's just a different vibe too. 807 00:48:38,356 --> 00:48:42,316 Speaker 1: The people are different, it's a different culturally, it's very different. Yeah, 808 00:48:42,556 --> 00:48:45,436 Speaker 1: and it's amazing too, and it brings different things out 809 00:48:45,476 --> 00:48:48,356 Speaker 1: of me. But I'm also not thinking so much about 810 00:48:48,436 --> 00:48:50,636 Speaker 1: where I live because I'm so excited to be on 811 00:48:50,836 --> 00:48:54,236 Speaker 1: tour that that has been the most interesting thing to feel. 812 00:48:54,436 --> 00:48:57,556 Speaker 1: Is that like being back on a tour bus or 813 00:48:57,596 --> 00:49:00,076 Speaker 1: being on tour like that is the place I feel 814 00:49:00,116 --> 00:49:01,956 Speaker 1: the most at home. It's the place that I had 815 00:49:02,036 --> 00:49:05,876 Speaker 1: spent collectively the most amount of time in my adult life. 816 00:49:06,156 --> 00:49:11,276 Speaker 1: And it has this magic thing where your sense of 817 00:49:11,436 --> 00:49:15,956 Speaker 1: purpose on tour is so clear, Like you're with all 818 00:49:16,036 --> 00:49:20,436 Speaker 1: these people who have all committed to this real, strange, 819 00:49:20,516 --> 00:49:25,436 Speaker 1: alternative way of life in this real practice, and you 820 00:49:25,596 --> 00:49:28,516 Speaker 1: form a community and every bit of your day is 821 00:49:28,756 --> 00:49:34,036 Speaker 1: goes towards this moment that is about being present that 822 00:49:34,156 --> 00:49:38,236 Speaker 1: you're creating with the audience and bringing people together and 823 00:49:38,876 --> 00:49:41,876 Speaker 1: also being a part of something bigger than yourself. And 824 00:49:42,156 --> 00:49:46,876 Speaker 1: that to me is I feel so lucky to call home. Well, 825 00:49:46,916 --> 00:49:48,276 Speaker 1: thank you so much. I could sit and talk to 826 00:49:48,316 --> 00:49:49,756 Speaker 1: you all day, I know you have to go. No, 827 00:49:50,036 --> 00:49:52,476 Speaker 1: thank you. I really appreciate really thoughtful questions. I really 828 00:49:52,476 --> 00:49:54,596 Speaker 1: appreciate it, and it's such a joy to be on 829 00:49:54,676 --> 00:49:58,116 Speaker 1: this podcast. I'm just a really big fan. Thank you, 830 00:49:58,556 --> 00:50:01,436 Speaker 1: best of luck on tour. I hope that you find 831 00:50:01,516 --> 00:50:04,756 Speaker 1: home wherever you are and can't wait to see you play. Oh, 832 00:50:04,956 --> 00:50:11,236 Speaker 1: can't wait, can't wait. Thanks again to Maggie Rodgers. You 833 00:50:11,316 --> 00:50:13,956 Speaker 1: can hear a new album, Surrender, along with all of 834 00:50:13,996 --> 00:50:17,196 Speaker 1: our favorite Maggie Rodgers songs on a playlist at broken 835 00:50:17,276 --> 00:50:20,436 Speaker 1: Record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to our 836 00:50:20,476 --> 00:50:23,756 Speaker 1: YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast. 837 00:50:24,156 --> 00:50:27,316 Speaker 1: We can find all of our new episodes. You can 838 00:50:27,396 --> 00:50:30,956 Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is 839 00:50:30,956 --> 00:50:34,716 Speaker 1: produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Ben Holliday, 840 00:50:35,156 --> 00:50:40,036 Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, Jennifer Sanchez, our editor Sophie Crane. Our executive 841 00:50:40,076 --> 00:50:44,116 Speaker 1: producer is Mia LaBelle. Broken Record is a production of 842 00:50:44,316 --> 00:50:47,996 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, 843 00:50:48,116 --> 00:50:52,036 Speaker 1: consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast 844 00:50:52,076 --> 00:50:56,076 Speaker 1: subscription that offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad free listening 845 00:50:56,316 --> 00:50:59,236 Speaker 1: for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus 846 00:50:59,356 --> 00:51:02,596 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts, subscriptions, and if you like our show, 847 00:51:02,796 --> 00:51:05,236 Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review us on your 848 00:51:05,276 --> 00:51:08,836 Speaker 1: podcast at our theme musics by Kenny beats On Just 849 00:51:09,276 --> 00:51:09,556 Speaker 1: Richman