1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 2: Every day last year, four million packages of cheap or 3 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 2: cheap ish foreign goods arrived in the US duty free, 4 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 2: fast fashion, kids, toys, even e bikes, and as long 5 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 2: as those packages were valued less than eight hundred dollars, 6 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 2: no tariffs, no problems at the border. But now that's changing. 7 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 3: Why is somebody talking about the Deminimus shipping exemption ending 8 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 3: at the end of August. Canadian brands shipping to the 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 3: United States are absolutely screwed. 10 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: Just letting all my American customers know that I have 11 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: now stopped US shipping. If you're an American customer and 12 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: you want to place an order, you need to do 13 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: it before the twenty ninth. 14 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 3: Well, we started to see at the end of last 15 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 3: week different countries postal services like Australia Posts, Singapore Posts, 16 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 3: the Royal Mail, Denmark, all of these different services were 17 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 3: announcing that they would stop taking certain packages that were 18 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 3: bound for the US. 19 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 2: Laura Curtis covers Global Trade for Bloomberg. 20 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 3: They have never had to handle this amount of paperwork before. 21 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 3: There's no mechanism for them to collect the tariffs and 22 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,559 Speaker 3: remit them to US Customs authorities. So they're just saying 23 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 3: at this point, like, listen, we don't have the ability 24 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 3: to comply with this, so we're just not going to 25 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 3: take the packages until we have some clear guidance and 26 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 3: some clear procedures in place. 27 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 2: The reason for all this confusion is a Trump administration 28 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 2: policy change that's finally going into effect on Friday. The 29 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 2: US will close a loophole that granted cheap goods tear 30 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 2: a free passage into the country, a loophole called the 31 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 2: deminimous exemption. 32 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,559 Speaker 3: The term comes from a Latin phrase which roughly means 33 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:54,639 Speaker 3: too small to matter. 34 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 2: Small as they may be, these packages collectively represented one 35 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: billion dollars in trade last year, and that value has 36 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 2: been climbing up from just one hundred and forty million 37 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 2: dollars a year a decade ago. I'm Sarah Holder, and 38 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 2: this is the big take from Bloomberg News today on 39 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 2: the show, the end of the dominimous exemption. Why a 40 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 2: carve out for goods that were seen as too small 41 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 2: to matter is actually a really big deal. The deminimus 42 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 2: exemption has been around since the late nineteen thirties. Back then, 43 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: it applied to all goods coming into the country that 44 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 2: were worth a dollar or less. 45 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 3: Some countries argue that these low value packages it costs 46 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 3: more to collect tariffs on them than it does to 47 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 3: let them in without. 48 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Global Trade reporter Laura Curtis says the US exemption 49 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 2: stayed at a dollar for decades before rising to five 50 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 2: dollars in nineteen ninety. It climbed to two hundred dollars 51 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety three, and then jumped to eight hundred 52 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 2: dollars in twenty sixteen during the Barack Obama presidency. Lots 53 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 2: of other countries have a similar exemption, but at much 54 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 2: lower thresholds. China generally waives duties on packages worth seven 55 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: dollars or less. It's about forty dollars in Canada and 56 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,679 Speaker 2: around one hundred and fifty dollars in the Eurozone. 57 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,679 Speaker 3: The administration says that in line with the rest of 58 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 3: its tariff policy, the US has been taken for a ride, 59 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 3: taken advantage of right, and this is one large loophole. 60 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 3: They say that they're closing to make things more fair 61 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 3: for domestic businesses. Another justification from the administration is around 62 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 3: fence andal, so part of his justification anyway is that 63 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 3: because these packages are fast tracked and avoiding customs scrutiny, 64 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 3: we don't know what's in them, and it very well 65 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 3: could be you know that this is a route for fencemil. 66 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: Into the country. 67 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: Trump isn't the only president who's targeted the dominimus loophole. 68 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 2: Joe Biden's administration also took steps to crack down on 69 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: what it called deminimous abuses in twenty twenty four. Trump 70 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 2: took up the cause again at the start of his 71 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: second term, announcing that he'd end the exemption on lower 72 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 2: value packages coming into the country from mainland China and 73 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 2: Hong Kong, and on May second, those went into effect. 74 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 3: We have seen a big crackdown on those packages. So 75 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 3: things like she and Timu, those fast fashion e commerce 76 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 3: straight to consumer shipments have already stopped from China, and 77 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 3: that was the bulk of these types of shipments. 78 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 2: In July, Trump announced that he'd also be ending the 79 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 2: exemption for all countries' imports, and that has set off 80 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 2: a panic for foreign postal services around the world because, 81 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 2: like many of Trump's trade policies, they've been rolled out 82 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 2: without the clearest of action plans. 83 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 3: So as of Friday, every package that enters the United 84 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 3: States must have with it a customs declaration that says 85 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 3: the contents of the package that value the country of 86 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 3: origin those goods. So not just where this thing is 87 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 3: shipping from, but where the thing was made and sometimes 88 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 3: even done. 89 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: To its component parts. 90 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 3: So you're looking at a huge compliance burden that wasn't 91 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 3: there before for some, you know, oftentimes quite low value goods. 92 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: You know, think about the last thing you bought on Etsy. 93 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 3: Or a widget from Thailand that you need to replace 94 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 3: your a part of your pizza oven or whatever it is. 95 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 3: You know, you're looking at a whole new layer of 96 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 3: complexity in terms of importing these types of things. 97 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: Another challenge will be processing the money. Traditionally, tariffs are 98 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 2: collected at the US border, but it's unclear who exactly 99 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 2: will collect these tariffs and where that's left foreign postal 100 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 2: services confused. 101 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 3: The guidance says it's written, says that they can either 102 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 3: do it or they can use an approved authority, but 103 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 3: that was not very well defined and so none of 104 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 3: them really know. 105 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: What you know, who that would be. 106 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 3: And then as we as we move forward, customs is 107 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 3: that they're going to be approving more and more a 108 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 3: third party software companies, for example, to start handling these 109 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 3: packages on behalf of national postal services. We saw two 110 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 3: announced at the end of last week, and actually Canada 111 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 3: said that they were partnering with one of them, a 112 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 3: company called Zonos, And that's that's sort of your like 113 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 3: your web platform that will handle the payments. You know, 114 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 3: probably the consumer will be mostly unaware, but they will 115 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 3: have the higher fees. 116 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 2: So who wins and who loses when the deminimus exemption ends. 117 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 2: That's after the break. For the first time in nearly 118 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 2: ninety years, there will no longer be a dominimous exemption 119 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 2: for low cost packages entering the US. There is still 120 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:10,239 Speaker 2: one small loophole person to person shipments of gifts worth 121 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 2: less than one hundred dollars. If your Canadian grandma wants 122 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 2: to ship you the scarf she nit, that can still 123 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 2: enter the country duty free, but that exemption doesn't apply 124 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 2: to any packages shipped by companies. I asked Bloomberg's Laura 125 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 2: Curtis about some of the companies this change might impact most. 126 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 3: I think first we're going to see the small and 127 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 3: medium sized companies that are importing, you know, toys, books, 128 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 3: custom apparel, shoes. Folks who bring in really specialty products 129 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 3: that they have spent a long time sourcing from other 130 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 3: countries will often use the deminimous loophole. 131 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: The other thing I think we should keep an eye 132 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: on is. 133 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 3: What happens to the intermediate goods, you know, things that 134 00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 3: US manufacturers need and often buy as they go to 135 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 3: make the products that they sell domestically and export. But 136 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 3: as the cost of those things rises or become you know, 137 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 3: even unavailable in some cases, I think we'll see that 138 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 3: kind of knock on effect in our in you know, 139 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 3: here at home as well. 140 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 2: Closing the loophole will also create new challenges for e 141 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 2: commerce platforms that connect buyers and sellers all over the world. 142 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: Platforms like Etsy. 143 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 3: So Etsy at the end of last week put out 144 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 3: guidance saying that they were suspending an international postal label 145 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 3: service that they provide, you know, pending the change, and 146 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 3: they pointed their sellers to commercial carriers that already have 147 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 3: the capability of processing these tariffs. 148 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 2: How big of a deal is it for Etsy to 149 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 2: stop issuing these shipping labels for packages sent from countries 150 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 2: like Canada. How much will that impact its business and 151 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 2: the this model of these small business owners who rely 152 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 2: on a platform like Etsy to sell their goods well. 153 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 3: I think in the short term, these sellers will likely 154 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 3: use services that are already in place from commercial carriers 155 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 3: for a higher fee, and that fee will likely get 156 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 3: passed on to US consumers buying the goods. 157 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 2: Laura says that's the big headline here. Like Trump's other tariffs, 158 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 2: they may be intended to support US businesses, but they're 159 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 2: also expected to have an impact on the prices US 160 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 2: consumers pay. 161 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 3: You know, I think with a policy like this, it's 162 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 3: likely to hit lower income folks who relied on, you know, 163 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 3: cheaper goods, just like a lot of these trade policies, 164 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 3: with the additional fees attached to tariffs to goods, it's 165 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 3: likely to hit those people who have tighter budgets. 166 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 2: Some people have blamed or credited the deminimous exemption for 167 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 2: fueling the rise of fast fashion brands like Shan or Temu. 168 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 2: Does the closing of this exemption mean that the kinds 169 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 2: of businesses that will be created and that will flourish 170 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 2: will change. 171 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:10,719 Speaker 1: I think we're going to have. 172 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 3: To see, you know, what are consumers in the US 173 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 3: willing to pay for how long are they willing to wait? 174 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 3: You know, I think part of the the sort of 175 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 3: TikTok halls, and you know, these these types of consumer 176 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 3: trends we've seen. 177 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: Over the last few years may change. 178 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 3: I think we're you know, starting to see that already, 179 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 3: but to the extent that the US consumer is going 180 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,439 Speaker 3: to change their taste for, you know, chief quick goods, 181 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,439 Speaker 3: I don't you know, I don't know, they just might 182 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 3: not be as quick or as cheap. 183 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 2: If fewer of these lower value goods are being sent 184 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 2: into the US, are they going to go to other countries? 185 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 3: One of the things we're keeping an eye on now, 186 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 3: you know, me and my colleagues around the world, we're 187 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 3: starting to see other countries reevaluate their own diminish miss 188 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 3: type policies. So once the US curved all these packages 189 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 3: coming in from China, those goods are starting to find 190 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 3: their way to other markets. So we've seen some countries 191 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 3: already in Latin America reduce or scrap their their low 192 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 3: value exemptions altogether. And that conversation is also starting in 193 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 3: the UK and in the EU. I think Mexico and Chile, 194 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 3: who have already changed their own deminimus type policy to 195 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 3: keep some of these low value goods from China out 196 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 3: from flooding their own economy. So, you know, just because 197 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 3: the US is no longer accepting these goods from China 198 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 3: doesn't mean that they won't end up somewhere else. And 199 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 3: I think you know a lot of particularly smaller economy 200 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 3: countries are concerned that this will flood their domestic markets. 201 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 2: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder. 202 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 2: To get more from The Big Take and unlimited acts 203 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 2: us to all of bloomberg dot com, subscribe today at 204 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 2: Bloomberg dot com slash podcast offer. If you liked this episode, 205 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 2: make sure to follow and review The Big Take wherever 206 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 2: you listen to podcasts. It helps people find the show. 207 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow