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Speaker 1: Welcome to the crime round Up, y'all. I was on

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Speaker 1: Merritt The Street Crime Stories.

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Speaker 2: With Nancy Gray's Wednesday night.

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Speaker 1: I about had a full blown laughing attack.

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Speaker 2: Let me tell you what happened.

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Speaker 1: Another guest was talking very intellectual, very clear, very concise,

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Speaker 1: and then I hear him say, Nancy, I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: the C word. I was like a fifth grader. I

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Speaker 1: almost just started cracking up. And Nancy her face was

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Speaker 1: so classic. She just went deadpand and was looking like,

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Speaker 1: are you kidding me? And then he said I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about cannabis and she went, well, that ain't where I

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Speaker 1: thought you were going.

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Speaker 2: Well then I just.

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Speaker 1: Lost it, just cracked up. That was so awesome, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: It was hilarious. And your face, if I could have

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Speaker 1: captured it, that would be my screen saver for you

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Speaker 1: because you were like, I know, he is not fixing

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Speaker 1: a bust out with the sea word of all people.

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Speaker 3: I believe it said something like, well that when you

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Speaker 3: said the sea word, that's not the word that immediately

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Speaker 3: came to mind.

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Speaker 2: But that said, but that said, we're going to move on.

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Speaker 3: And you know what, Cheryl, what's so funny about it

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Speaker 3: is when I started prosecuting. I did not curse, but

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Speaker 3: I had to say so many you know, repeat what

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Speaker 3: defendant said and statements at on location that pretty soon

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Speaker 3: I was saying it all, Cheryl, say it all.

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Speaker 2: It said, very bad habit. I'm surprised.

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Speaker 3: So now you know when I had the twins, was

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Speaker 3: it sixteen years ago? I swore off cursing cold turkey

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Speaker 3: in front of them. But I try to be a

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Speaker 3: better person, Cheryl, I really do every day. What were

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Speaker 3: we talking about? Were we talking about Diddy?

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Speaker 2: We got some updates? What in the world?

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Speaker 3: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, Cheryl, I have something very

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Speaker 3: important to you to tell you.

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Speaker 2: Some may call it a fashion felony. I do not.

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Speaker 2: I wore a shirt on the show tonight.

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Speaker 3: Excuse me the program that is literally the American flag.

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Speaker 3: It is a shirt made of the American flag and

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Speaker 3: the Constitution.

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Speaker 2: Really, yeah, you don't find that just anywhere. Okay, right,

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Speaker 2: that sounds like a fantastic shirt.

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Speaker 3: Well you'll have to tune into Merritt Street Media to

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Speaker 3: see it or YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Count on that.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I guess you're about to get tuned up on

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Speaker 3: what Diddy are Kansas moms.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about Kansas moms because they have an update

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Speaker 1: now again. You and I talked about this over and over,

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Speaker 1: on and off, and one thing you and I both

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Speaker 1: agreed on.

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Speaker 2: Where they were tortured.

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Speaker 1: Jilly and Kelly and Veronica Butler we now know were

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Speaker 1: put inside of a freezer.

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Speaker 3: They were stuffed in a freezer. Because how the two

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Speaker 3: grown women fit mothers, I might add, fit in a freezer?

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Speaker 2: A freezer?

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Speaker 3: How does that happen? They were stuffed in there. They

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Speaker 3: had to be folded over or contorted in one way

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Speaker 3: or the other. And here is my question. And I

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Speaker 3: went round and round with doctor Kendall Crowns. You know

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Speaker 3: how much I hate to argue with a medical examiner

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Speaker 3: because it's a whole another language. They know what they're

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Speaker 3: talking about. And doctor Crowns has performed, oh my Stars,

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Speaker 3: ten thousand autopsies about how you could tell if the

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Speaker 3: moms were alive when they were put in the ice chest.

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Speaker 3: So they had to had to contort the bodies. And

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Speaker 3: it reminds me of Oh, this was the daughter from Hell.

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Speaker 2: H E. L. Heather. What's her last name? Heather? Heather, Heather?

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Speaker 3: She her mother is this very articulate, sophisticated woman that

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Speaker 3: had done everything for her daughter, best school's best everything.

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Speaker 3: I think she may have been a professor. So they

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Speaker 3: had a horrible relationship because the daughter's a helli and

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Speaker 3: it starts with Heather Mac.

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Speaker 2: It came to me as in Mac and cheese, Heather Mac.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not sneaking on my iPad like some people

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Speaker 3: on the program right now, Yeah, you know who you are,

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Speaker 3: Cheryl Heather Mac.

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Speaker 2: So she raised the daughter. Ever since the daughter was little.

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Speaker 3: She would hit the mom, brate the mom, yell at

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Speaker 3: the mom anyway. So the mom's trying to repair the

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Speaker 3: relationship and she takes the daughter to a five star

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Speaker 3: resort in Bali, Okay Bally, and they get into an

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Speaker 3: argument because up pomps the girl's boyfriend good for nothing,

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Speaker 3: I might add, and the boyfriend and Heather Mack murder

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Speaker 3: the mother, murder her and stuff her in a suitcase

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Speaker 3: and leave the mother her mother out where the taxis

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Speaker 3: come along like somebody left a piece of luggage. It

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Speaker 3: was a roller board and no one thought anything of

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Speaker 3: it until blood started coming out of the roller board.

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Speaker 3: My point, not just one, but two women do not

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Speaker 3: get quote put in an ice chest. They have to

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Speaker 3: get smashed and folded over and crunched. And my fear

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Speaker 3: is that they were not quite dead when they were

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Speaker 3: put in the ice chest and buried ten to fifteen

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Speaker 3: feet below the surface of a cow pasture. Then they

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Speaker 3: may have been still alive, unconscious, but alive, because we

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Speaker 3: know that they were brutally attacked when they were carjacked.

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Speaker 2: Because there's a giant.

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Speaker 3: Pool of blood, a copious amount of blood. Get this, Cheryl,

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Speaker 3: These perps actually brought kitty litter and put it on

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Speaker 3: the blood. There was so much blood to soak up

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Speaker 3: the liquid. As a journey, you may consider and the

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Speaker 3: judge will instruct you on this verbatim as I'm telling

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Speaker 3: you that you may consider the defendants before the defendant's

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Speaker 3: behavior before, during, and after the crime, before, during, and

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Speaker 3: after the crime. You think they just dug that fifteen

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Speaker 3: foot hole, right, No, that was dug and waiting. That

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Speaker 3: is premeditation, malice, a forethought, Cheryl.

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Speaker 1: When you're talking about moving a freezer from the house

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Speaker 1: or the garage to the barn.

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Speaker 2: To this cow pasture.

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Speaker 1: It was a two day excavation, so you know they

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Speaker 1: were meticulous and what they were doing, they were thoughtful.

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Speaker 1: In the process, and so you know you've got one

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Speaker 1: of the folks.

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Speaker 2: Guys.

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Speaker 1: He made some statements, Nancy that I'm telling you you

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Speaker 1: would blow up.

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Speaker 2: And have for God and country. I want talking.

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Speaker 1: He asked a buddy how long would DNA last on

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Speaker 1: clothes in the dirt?

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Speaker 2: And then listen to this part. He wasn't done in

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Speaker 2: the dirt. How long does DNA last in the dirt?

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Speaker 3: I can get this part or something like, hey, man,

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Speaker 3: have you seen Jurassic Park?

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Speaker 1: But he ain't done. He adds this part, and you're

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Speaker 1: gonna love this.

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Speaker 2: In the dirt fifteen feet deep, he says. He's that clear.

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Speaker 1: He knew how deep that hole was before they found them.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty damning. And then he asked that same friend, Hey,

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Speaker 1: how can you get your wife and kids to Mexico.

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Speaker 2: So my thing to mister Paul Geis would be, you're worried.

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Speaker 1: About DNA on clothing, but you have two murder victims

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Speaker 1: in a freezer on land. You're connected to your cell

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Speaker 1: phone connects you to the other four people. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the DNA is the least of your concern. We can

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Speaker 1: put you there without DNA, sir.

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Speaker 3: You know another thing he did and I love this

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Speaker 3: so much. When the LA Law Enforcement came to speak

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Speaker 3: to him the first time, based on statements made by

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Speaker 3: relatives and friends that Gryce was guys was hanging around

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Speaker 3: at the time that women went missing. He had a

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Speaker 3: bandage on his hand, and he said he told one

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Speaker 3: story that he was working on his truck. Then when

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Speaker 3: he was asked by another person, he said, oh, I

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Speaker 3: was putting up a fence. Now, unless he was putting

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Speaker 3: up a fence around his truck, then he's.

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Speaker 2: Got a problem.

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Speaker 1: You know, you start asking people, Hey, how do I

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Speaker 1: get everybody that I love to Mexico? And you start saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: how long does DNA last in dirt fifteen feet deep?

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Speaker 2: That is dog gone near a confession to me, I'm

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Speaker 2: just wondering.

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Speaker 3: I hate the other things that were buried in the

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Speaker 3: ice chest, clothing and that they were very clear to

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Speaker 3: say did not belong to either of the victims of

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Speaker 3: Veronica or Jillian, which means that had to be their clothing.

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Speaker 3: And I wonder if it's going to and it was stained,

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Speaker 3: I wonder if it's going to match up to them

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Speaker 3: where he hurt his hand and this guy, you know,

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Speaker 3: another thing about this guy I would be looking at him,

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Speaker 3: even though I think Grandma is the root of the evil.

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Speaker 3: I would be looking at him, and I'll tell you why,

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Speaker 3: because he's the weak link. He's the weak sister in

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Speaker 3: this scenario. He's the one that wrote the manifesto. I

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Speaker 3: believe that says I am not a citizen and I

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Speaker 3: am not a citizen of the US government.

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Speaker 2: I love that part.

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Speaker 3: And how I am a free living soul. Some craziness

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Speaker 3: like that, refusing to accept the authority and the jurisdiction

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Speaker 3: of the country in which he lives. You know these

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Speaker 3: knights that run through the woods and have keggers, that's him.

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Speaker 3: So he's the one worried about getting his family in

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Speaker 3: Mexico and his DNA being in dirt.

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Speaker 2: And how long will it last? Forever?

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Speaker 3: Man, that's how long. So that's the one I would

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Speaker 3: go for. I would go and shot a cracking. But

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Speaker 3: here's the problem. Here's the problem. I also wouldn't take

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Speaker 3: a plea. You don't need a play. You don't need

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Speaker 3: one to rat on the other. Because I think they

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Speaker 3: should all steal in the same pot together.

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Speaker 2: They should all be tried together. And now, and there's a.

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Speaker 3: Deep heem there's a death on the case, it can't.

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Speaker 2: Be tried together about the clothing. If I hurt my hand.

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Speaker 1: However, I heard it at the farm or Durna murder,

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Speaker 1: and I got my own blood on my shirt. I

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Speaker 1: can still keep that shirt because I'm going to make

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Speaker 1: up what happened to my hand. It was on the farm.

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Speaker 1: I think he's worried that there's blood spider on him

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Speaker 1: from the victims, which is the reason he threw his

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Speaker 1: own shirt in that same hole.

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Speaker 3: But even if that is the case, is DNA will

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Speaker 3: still be on the shirt. Hey, I was speaking to

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Speaker 3: doctor Kendall Crowns, and we had discussed before we knew

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Speaker 3: that they were in ash chest freezer. As they're saying,

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Speaker 3: whether you could tell if they were dead or alive

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Speaker 3: when buried, if there was dirt in their nasal passes,

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Speaker 3: their mouths, on their tongue and their throat, even down

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Speaker 3: in their lungs.

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Speaker 2: But now we won't know that.

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Speaker 3: He at first said he would not be able to

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Speaker 3: tell if they suffocated in the ice chest in the

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Speaker 3: excuse me, chest freezer. But think about it, Cheryl, I

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Speaker 3: think you can tell because unless the blow they sustained

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Speaker 3: at the time of the carjacking with the hammer, I believe,

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Speaker 3: since part of the hammer was found on the road

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Speaker 3: near the blood. If they didn't die from that blow,

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Speaker 3: let's think this thing through. You'd be able to tell

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Speaker 3: if they were stabbed, shot, bludgeoned, dead, manual or ligature strangulation.

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Speaker 3: But if all of those are ruled out, and they

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Speaker 3: died of asphyxiation with no bruising to the mouth, the lips,

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Speaker 3: the nose, no blood in the mouth where they bit

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Speaker 3: their tongue or the inside of their mouth.

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Speaker 2: Through process of elimination.

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Speaker 3: I would argue to a jury they were in fact

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Speaker 3: alive at the time they were put in that ice chest.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know the other things that were found, the

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Speaker 1: duct tape, the knife, the electrical cord, the stun gun

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Speaker 1: and slash flashlight. Again, all of those things to me

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Speaker 1: suggest they were bound. I mean, to me, what happened

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Speaker 1: before they were put in that chest is very clear.

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Speaker 2: I think they were bound.

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Speaker 1: They were gagged, they were tied up, they were stunned,

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Speaker 1: they were stabbed. I think it was a done deal

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Speaker 1: before they got in that freezer, and that's why there

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Speaker 1: was blood everywhere.

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Speaker 3: Also, they found Oh, how would I say, packing straps. Now,

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Speaker 3: have you ever been behind a truck on the interstate

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Speaker 3: and they've got a crap ton of stuff in the

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Speaker 3: bed like they're moving and they have it kind of

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Speaker 3: like the next generation Bungee cords, big straps to hold.

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Speaker 2: It all in.

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Speaker 3: Those were in there. I don't know if those were

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Speaker 3: bloody or stained or not, but I'm trying to figure

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Speaker 3: out what were they doing with those straps.

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Speaker 1: That's how they moved the freezer exactly to the pit, yes,

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Speaker 1: and then they probably kept it on there so that

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Speaker 1: the lid.

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Speaker 2: Couldn't be opened, and they just pitched it all in there.

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Speaker 3: The land owner, don't you know, he's going to tell

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Speaker 3: all he knows. He doesn't want to be thrown in

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Speaker 3: with the others, right, So I wonder what he can

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Speaker 3: tell us He didn't notice.

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Speaker 2: There was a big hole in his cow pasture.

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Speaker 1: And then they covered it in hey, and they made sure,

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Speaker 1: you know that there wouldn't be any animal activity.

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Speaker 2: They made it just that deep.

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Speaker 1: This wasn't a ten minute gig either. This took some

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Speaker 1: time to pull off in the middle of the day.

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Speaker 3: I'm just wondering about freezers, you know, That's what I

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Speaker 3: gave my husband for Christmas a freezer enjoy so I

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Speaker 3: can know my frozen stuff in it out in the garage.

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Speaker 2: Every time I want a home appliance. That's what he

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Speaker 2: gets for his birthday. Birthday. Can I tell you what

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Speaker 2: we should give marital advice? You and I? We should

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Speaker 2: do those camps.

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Speaker 4: Hey, wait a minute, I've got really good one. One year,

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Speaker 4: I grew up in a little Methodist church and it

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Speaker 4: wasn't even the city of Megan's rural bib County, all right,

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Speaker 4: And there was this.

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Speaker 2: Picture of Christ on the wall, and it's of him.

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Speaker 3: In a white robe and he's knocking at a door.

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Speaker 2: I know you've seen it, Cheryl. Oh, I've seen it,

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Speaker 2: of course, honey.

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Speaker 3: So I wanted the twins to have pictures paintings of

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Speaker 3: Christ in their bedrooms. So I got one from John

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Speaker 3: David of Christ walking on the water.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 3: Later I got him that, but first it was originally

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Speaker 3: the one of Christ knocking on a door.

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Speaker 2: It was davis Christmas gift, trying to sit about to die.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, it's very symbolic anyways, still hanging it.

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Speaker 4: Actually it's in our living room now, but it's no

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Speaker 4: messages whatever.

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Speaker 2: No message. Whatever I want is what I give him

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Speaker 2: for his birthday. It's awesome. Boor die, ladies, You're welcome.

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Speaker 2: There's genius in that.

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Speaker 3: Deep, deep genius. Back to the freezer. I don't know

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Speaker 3: this about freezers, but I know it about cars. I

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Speaker 3: know it about all sorts of vehicles. Where is the

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Speaker 3: VEN number? And they have them for dishwashers. So is

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Speaker 3: there a way I can trace this freezer back to

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Speaker 3: the owner if it has let's just call it a

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Speaker 3: VEN number, a manufacturing number?

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Speaker 2: What about that, Cheryl? Absolutely, but you would also have

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Speaker 2: common a void space.

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Speaker 1: And if these folks act that as quickly and haphazard

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Speaker 1: as they did at the actual crime scene and the

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Speaker 1: secondary scene, then I tell you there is a void

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Speaker 1: in somebody's garage or house where they have not cleaned it.

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Speaker 1: It's obvious there was a large item here because there's boxes.

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Speaker 2: And stuff all around it.

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Speaker 1: You're going to see the dust, You're going to see

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Speaker 1: things that were up under it, that are behind it.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be obvious.

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Speaker 1: And then these people had meetings in their house. I

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Speaker 1: guarantee you there were multiple witnesses that saw this freezer

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Speaker 1: wherever it used to be.

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Speaker 3: Another thing that was found. Okay, we said clothing with bloodstains,

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Speaker 3: including two sweatshirts, t shirts, cloth gloves, and you know

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Speaker 3: the inside of those gloves is they're filled with the

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Speaker 3: DNA of whoever was wearing them. A black k bar knife,

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Speaker 3: a fixed blade knife in sheath, and duct tape. I

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Speaker 3: love duct tape, Cheryl McCollum, because it's a perfect conduit

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Speaker 3: for DNA and fingerprints. Nothing better than duct tape to

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Speaker 3: get your fingerprints.

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Speaker 2: It's a beautiful thing. A beauty is.

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Speaker 1: By putting the victims and these other items and the

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Speaker 1: clothing inside that freezer and shutting it actually preserved it.

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Speaker 3: Eugenius Paul Grice. He is going to sing like a canary.

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Speaker 3: I'm just telling you, but I don't want him to

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Speaker 3: plead out. I don't think anybody should get a cheap plea.

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Speaker 3: This grandma, how what does she have some kind of

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Speaker 3: mind control? Yeah, you can look at Grice until he's

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Speaker 3: gonna crack.

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Speaker 2: He's gonna crack totally.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't one of the original misfits either, like he

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Speaker 1: came late to the party.

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Speaker 2: He is now again.

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Speaker 1: He was arrested last So not only is he the

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Speaker 1: weak link law enforcement knows it, and sadly, I think

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Speaker 1: Paul knows it.

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Speaker 3: Hey, I've got a question for you to take with

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Speaker 3: you over the weekend and ponder deep in your heart. Okay,

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Speaker 3: why does everything happen at Walmart? Because purchase the two

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Speaker 3: cell phones and another device?

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Speaker 2: What is the device at a wall?

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Speaker 3: And you know they've got her on video just like

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Speaker 3: a taught mom. Bey, she's on Vidia braun a couple

333
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Speaker 3: of eighteen packs of beer.

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Speaker 2: But remember she bought the cell phones.

335
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Speaker 1: She bought the cell phones, went straight home and started

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Speaker 1: charging them, all of them.

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Speaker 3: I'm not judging, But what is this guy's beard?

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Speaker 2: What is that?

339
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Speaker 3: It looks like he put an old batment on his chin?

340
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,040
Speaker 3: I mean, are think it? Lett him have that front

341
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Speaker 3: of the jury.

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Speaker 2: That's got to go. I think it's the best thing.

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Speaker 2: Let him see it.

344
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Speaker 3: If they have them all spiffed up for trial. You know,

345
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Speaker 3: I would have to resort to finding a reason to

346
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Speaker 3: show the book in photo. I'd find a reason. Do

347
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,359
Speaker 3: not worry about that, do not wear your pretty ahead.

348
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Speaker 2: I will find a reason.

349
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Speaker 3: To get this muck shot in because he's totally unkempt.

350
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Speaker 2: He looks like he looks like a wild Man. You

351
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,480
Speaker 2: know the twins, and I love this.

352
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Speaker 3: Of course, David thinks for crazy, there is some sort

353
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:04,920
Speaker 3: of a world event where you compete for the best

354
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 3: beard and mustache. Yes they're beard what Yeah, yeah, they're

355
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaker 3: they're they look they're amazing.

356
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:13,680
Speaker 2: They are amazing.

357
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,520
Speaker 3: Not what I'm talking about here. No, I'm not against

358
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,879
Speaker 3: facial hair. I want to be clear, But what is that.

359
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,879
Speaker 3: I mean, it's gonna it's gonna play in to every

360
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:32,560
Speaker 3: stereotype this jury has deep in the recesses of their mind. Amazingly,

361
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 3: he's not the one that comes up with a crazy

362
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,280
Speaker 3: manifesto about not being a US a citizen of the

363
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,280
Speaker 3: US government. Well, let me just say to read that

364
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:43,959
Speaker 3: out loud to the jury.

365
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Speaker 1: And I want to be real clear, Paul Grice, You're

366
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,359
Speaker 1: about to get a front row seat to the US

367
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Speaker 1: government in action.

368
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 2: Honey.

369
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,439
Speaker 3: It's going to be more about the Constitution than he

370
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:56,680
Speaker 3: ever wanted to know.

371
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,399
Speaker 2: He might be wearing your shirt, bir it's over with.

372
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 3: I'll go after him myself if he tries to put

373
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Speaker 3: on my US Constitution and flag shirt.

374
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:09,640
Speaker 2: That is not happening.

375
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Speaker 1: You remember when you almost got held in contempt because

376
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,720
Speaker 1: you almost got held in contempt because the judge said, tell.

377
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 2: Judge Wade Bresley held me in contempt. This was awesome.

378
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,159
Speaker 1: And we were all sitting there and speaking of the constitution.

379
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 1: You said something. I don't remember. If it was about

380
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 1: the Third Amendment, I don't know, but everybody wasn't up

381
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:31,399
Speaker 1: on it.

382
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 2: Everybody wasn't clear. What is she talking about? Where's she going?

383
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 1: And I don't remember if law enforcement from another place

384
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 1: ate a donut while they were at the scene, I

385
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 1: have no idea.

386
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:40,719
Speaker 2: I don't remember that.

387
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 1: I just remember you telling the judge, sir, if you

388
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 1: look at that book right behind your back and go

389
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,399
Speaker 1: to page thirty seven, paragraph toos, it will say.

390
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 2: How wrong you are.

391
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I remember exactly what it was.

392
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Speaker 2: Okay. It started with a million and I remember his name,

393
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:03,400
Speaker 2: Walter Gates.

394
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 3: He had been beating and molesting young girls since his twenties.

395
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,360
Speaker 2: That I know of, and he was in his sixties. Okay,

396
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 2: so he would particularly beat and molest his own daughters.

397
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 3: He had thirty five natural children, three five thirty five

398
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 3: natural children. If my memory is not feeling me and

399
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 3: I looked and looked and looked, and found multiple similar

400
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 3: transactions stepdaughters, daughters daughters by various women that lived in

401
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 3: different states. I found them, and why did I find them?

402
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 3: Because his living girlfriend had two little girls, three one

403
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 3: was a teen, and was so desperate to get out

404
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 3: of the house with him. She moved into Section eight

405
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 3: housing project Okay, and they had a beautiful home, but

406
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 3: she did not want to live there. Wow, I wonder

407
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 3: why that left the two little sisters there. One was

408
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 3: about three and one was about seven. He owned almost

409
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 3: all the horse drawn carriage, tourist trade and limo.

410
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 2: He had a big limo business here in Atlanta. I remember, yep,

411
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 2: And this.

412
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 3: Is what happened. Ready to go to trial, I had

413
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,360
Speaker 3: worked with the victims. The mother was siding with him,

414
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 3: of course, and still living with him. Over the weekend,

415
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 3: the defense attorneys got the two little girls about three

416
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 3: and five, three and seven years old, and got the

417
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 3: little girls to recant. So who's going to be the

418
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 3: witness to the recantation? The lawyer got his law partner

419
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 3: up on the stand to talk about the little girls recanting.

420
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 3: I was so mad that I could achieved an ell

421
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 3: and a half, so I immediately jumped on him on

422
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,679
Speaker 3: cross exam, yelling across the courtroom about don't you how

423
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 3: much money are you making off this case?

424
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,719
Speaker 2: Your partner's defending it. Now, what's your cut? What is it?

425
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 2: Idred grand retainer? Where do you get out of that

426
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 2: fifty grand? Anyway?

427
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 3: The judge thought, I was not allowed to cross examine

428
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 3: the defendant on pecuniary interest and the outcome of a trial.

429
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 3: Of course I can so. I He told me and

430
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 3: told me and told me. He kept sitting the jury

431
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 3: out not to ask, and said, okay, okay, I want

432
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 3: to ask.

433
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 2: So the jury came back here like everything got real quiet.

434
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 3: I went, is it sure you're making seventy five grand

435
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 3: off this case if you win? And he helped me

436
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 3: and contempt and you would have died laughing if you

437
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 3: could say, if you could have seen all the public defenders,

438
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 3: it's like they had radar.

439
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 2: They all came running.

440
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 3: From all over the courthouse to fill up the courtroom

441
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 3: to see me have to get fingerprinted and handcuf girl.

442
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 1: We all heard about it. Everybody was there. It was

443
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: one of those banner days. There's no doubt. And listen,

444
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 1: you know again, I got to watch you so often

445
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: and with this case out of Oklaho you know, I

446
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,479
Speaker 1: sometimes try to think, what would Nancy say, what direction

447
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: would she go in? And with this case, it's one

448
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: thing what happened on the side of that road, Nancy.

449
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: But to me, the whole closing argument is in that

450
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 1: ice freezer.

451
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 3: You're so right, Cheryl, and this is why that was

452
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 3: not hot blood. They were not angry in the moment

453
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 3: about custody of a child.

454
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 2: They weren't angry.

455
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 3: They were cool, calculated cold when they dug that hole,

456
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 3: when they got that freezer chest and put it down

457
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 3: in there, to put these two mothers, leaving six children

458
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 3: behind with a life sentence of life without mommy, and

459
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 3: just imagine there possible last moments alive, realizing they were

460
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 3: trapped in a nice chest, crunched up on each other

461
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 3: the dark, running out of air.

462
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 2: And y'all that's why she's the queen of the rodeo. Nancy.

463
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the crime roundup. Have a

464
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: fabulous Memorial Day, y'all. Be safe, don't drink and drive

465
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: and I will see you at crime.

466
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 2: Are not to drink?

467
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 3: Are you?

468
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: Are you insane?

469
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 3: Is drinking and driving in these parts that is not happening.

470
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 2: Everybody listening y'all make a plan now.

471
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: Who's going to drive you to and from your activities

472
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 1: on Memorial Day? If the plan will save you a

473
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: whole lot of heart ache, that's all I'm doing well.

474
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: I love you dearly and I appreciate your idios.

475
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 2: Friends.

476
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 1: I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is the Crime Roundup with

477
00:26:51,800 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: Zonesaven