WEBVTT - “A public health disaster”: The Impact of USAID Cuts on Africa 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:07.000 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:11.880 It's something that should have been done a long time ago. 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.840 Went crazy during the Biden administrative They went totally crazy. 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:18.480 What they were doing and the money they were giving 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:22.919 to people that shouldn't be getting it into agencies and 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:25.920 others that shouldn't be getting it was a shame, tremendous fraud. 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:30.760 America will become great again if they continue to support 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.920 the poor people, those who are in need of especially 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:37.320 the medical care. That's what I think. 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:40.360 Talk to the average American, do they want to see 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:44.400 people dying because of assistance cut off? You know, there 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:49.559 would have been a very clear and particular way to 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:51.920 reform the foreign assistance sector. 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:57.880 This suspension was immediately effectively, so that means if yesterday 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.200 your employees had to come back the following day to office, 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:04.520 you had to stop them because you had no money 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:05.520 to continue with them. 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.880 At the core of this, this is about an anti 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:15.160 rights agenda. This is not about the economics of making 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:19.360 countries such as South Africa and other African countries more independent. 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:24.200 This is a direct attack on the humanity of LGBTQI, 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:29.520 people of women, of girls, of children, and other marginalized groups. 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:33.640 One of President Trump's first actions after taking office was 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:37.560 to take aim at USAID, and last week, more than 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.039 ninety percent of the agency's activities in Africa were told 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:44.679 to seize, bringing an end to decades of programs tackling 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:50.640 poverty and diseases like HIV, tuberculosis, and ebola. In this 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:54.360 special episode of The Next Africa Podcast, we hear from 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.720 our reporters from all corners of the continent about what 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:01.280 impact this decision is having and how countries and AID 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:03.120 organizations are responding. 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:07.680 The future is uncertain because the government of ken actually 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:11.560 announced that they only have stoke for six months, so if 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.760 they don't do anything right now, it's going to become 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:16.160 a public health exhastin. 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:22.640 I'm Jennifer Zabasadja, and this is the Next Africa Podcast, 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.120 bringing you one story each week from the continent driving 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:29.440 the future of global growth with the context only Bloomberg 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:31.520 can provide. 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:37.600 We start this week in West Africa. 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.799 Over the past decade, the US has provided more than 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:44.600 seven point eight billion dollars in aid to Nigeria, supporting 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:47.519 everything from agriculture to HIV medication. 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:50.560 But now this may all stop. 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:54.560 The Nigerian Foreign Minister Yusuf Tugar gave his reaction to 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:56.320 Bloomberg earlier this week. 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:01.360 Nigeria has never been reliant on AID. What we have 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:05.840 always sought for is strategic solutions to the issue of 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.239 risk so that we can partner with countries and mitigate risk. 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:13.160 So what we were taking in in terms of development 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:18.400 AID is really not that significant and it's being covered. 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:22.480 So what does this mean for Nigeria. Our reporter Nduka 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.160 or Jinmo is based in a Buja. I started by 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:28.960 asking him what USAID actually funded in the country. 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:34.920 When you look across the country, you see the activities 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:38.400 of USAID, you know cat across. So you go to 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.920 some villages in South and Northern Nigeria and then you 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:45.960 see potholes that have been built by the USAID. But 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:49.720 I think they are most prominent interventions were in health 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:54.880 and this could across malaria, tuberculosis and most importantly you know, 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:59.960 walk around HIV and AIDS. Nigeria has the most people 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.680 living with the condition in western Central Africa, and that 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:10.160 funding went along when providing affordable treatment for them, went along, 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:14.880 when providing you know, things like the kind of support 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.520 services that they need. In funding angels that really worked 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:21.800 with them. There's an agency in Nigeria that is basically 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:25.880 dedicated to work around HI Young AIDS and that agency 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.200 said ninety percent of their funding over the years came 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:32.960 from USAI. So it just it shows you how immense 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:34.640 you know that that contribution was. 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:38.520 But at the same time, and Duka, we've been hearing 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:42.760 from some Nigerian officials saying that they've actually budgeted extra 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:47.200 money to fill the shortfall that now exists. Is it 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:49.720 enough to actually make an impact? 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:53.680 Well, the National Assembly they bought their two undred million 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:56.720 dollars to cover what they see, you know, the wholes 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.719 in the sectors that will be left by the USAID. 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.039 If that is enough, it's what we don't know what 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:06.880 since we begin to implement it. But my first instinct 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.400 to say it's not likely going to be enough. And 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:13.360 because there are several at of the agencies of government 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:18.640 that have not really reported to the Bilder Ministry how 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:22.000 much of their programs be impacted by the wither of AID. 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.840 So I'll give you an example. The Nigeria Bureau Statistics, 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:29.880 they do lots of the surveys around the economy. Is 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:34.320 that the inflation GDP on employment a chunk of the 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:36.760 funding that the gets comes from usa I D. Now 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:39.760 it's not a direct funding, so it comes from the 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:43.160 don't know agencies that have also received some funding from 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.240 from usa ID. So I guess these agencies have not 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:50.160 really calculated how much they will be losing. But I 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:52.760 don't think two d million dollars is going to plug 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:56.280 that hole. But what it means is that Nigeria at 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.640 least has a fall back option, especially in that's critical 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.480 sect of health where the government could not afford to 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.520 let most of those programs in the health sector in 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:09.560 all threes because the USCI defund and have been posted 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:11.120 well and. 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:13.000 We know from the pandemic. 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.760 I mean, you can plug a gap for for so long, right, 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.640 you don't know what is coming ahead. So what is 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:21.240 at risk if some of these programs and if some 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:25.240 of these stop gap measures are not actually sustainable. 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:28.200 Lots lots of at risk then and it's it's hard 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:32.840 to imagine what the cautions would be. So you're talking 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:38.200 about HIV and AIDS and Najeria has never really got 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:42.840 a grasp of the situation here where you still have, 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:46.040 you know, despite these interventions, you still have you know, 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:49.240 cases that keep going up. And then you look at malaria, 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:53.080 which is quite endemic here, and then things like tuberculosis 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.800 that's going to be quite devastating on the population, and 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:00.320 all forget a crusier part of this is the role 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:05.120 of proverty in all these situations. Most people who depended 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:08.800 on those services provided by US idea, that's that funding 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:12.320 where poor people, you know, in the rural areas, and 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:15.440 so imagine now they have to provide those drugs for themselves. 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.920 Imagine also you know that hospitals that the are used 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.600 of visiting in the neighborhoods shot down because they no 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:25.720 longer have that funding. So those consequences further down the 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:28.840 line can be there and unless something is done, I 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:32.520 mean in the shape of more funding either from outside 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:37.520 ordining drank governments basically redirected morphics resources to to those hosts. 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:40.480 Now and Andreka, you're you're obviously on the ground there. 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:42.960 What are people telling you? What are some of the 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:47.120 concerns that they're expressing at this point, given how fast 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.280 things have been moving since we heard aid was being pulled. 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.440 I've heard from people working in Manangeria's northeast regions. So 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.320 this is the area that has been affected by you know, 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:04.200 years of fighting insurgency and islam Mist insurgencies in that 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:08.040 in that region. So that's Grouno States, that's your base states, 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.120 parts of Adamara State and that's where you have you know, 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.840 the bulk of these interventions and heads from people who 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:19.680 are working at several UN agencies who've had to you know, 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:24.360 close certain departments, who've had to close, setting units, setting 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.640 programs that they are they are working on. And someone 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:33.920 working in the agricultural sector was saying, look, Nigeria was going. 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:37.160 To face forwarding security this year. 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.600 That will lead to millions of people, you know, facing 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.680 starvation because there was a huge flooding last year that 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.040 destroyed lots of farmblance in the north and some of 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.400 these programs from this AID was going to close that hole. 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.240 And now this has been caught, you know, it's going 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:53.920 to get worse. 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:55.720 And you could hear. 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:59.480 The concern, the deep concern in this person's voice. There's 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:01.880 no help coming from anywhere, you know, for these, for 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:04.640 these and agency, which is quite sad. So you think 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:07.560 of people, millions of people you know that have been 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:11.000 affected by years of four and the only help that 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:14.120 they knew, we know, was it coming in via in 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:16.800 all the American people, all that is now gone and 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:19.600 there's no immediate help coming to their. 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.840 Rescue to East Africa now. 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:26.960 As well as funding health programs, USAID was responding to 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:30.520 the civil war in Sudan, funding emergency kitchens across the 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:34.240 country which may now need to close. Our reporter Simon 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.040 Marx is based in Nairobi, and he told me what 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:39.360 the immediate impacts of the cuts have been. 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:44.440 Well, well, obviously a number of weeks into the eight 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:48.200 cuts that the US government has implemented, and they've been 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:54.400 very widespread in impacting a whole range of different health 0:09:54.440 --> 0:10:01.160 programs from HIV treatment to tuberculosis, to Malay area to 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:07.360 vaccine research, to the ability of US officials to engage 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:12.600 in the spread of ebola in neighboring Uganda, and all 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:14.880 in all, I would say that there are a number 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:18.360 of NGOs who get direct funding from the US who 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:22.040 are looking to, you know, find find money from elsewhere. 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:26.040 They've they've had their funds frozen and so programs have stopped. 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:28.920 As well as that countries like Sudan where there is 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:33.440 a famine, terrible famine unfolding in many, many different regions 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:37.120 in NGO's soup kitchens that got money from the US, 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:39.880 for example, have have stopped all over the country. So 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:43.280 it's really aggravated the lives for many. 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.320 And Simon, there's been a bit of conflicting news about 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:50.040 whether partially some of the aid has returned or not. 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:55.640 But if it doesn't in fact return to the levels 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.760 that we saw before, how are people who you speak to, 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:00.880 how are they rec bonding to it. 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:06.960 Yeah, indeed, so as you said that some key sort 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:11.240 of life saving funding, there has been news come out 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.679 that this could come back, that there are indeed waivers. 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:18.400 I'm not aware of anything in Kenyawear money's come back 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:21.560 initially because people are just freezing while they see the 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.200 final decision at the end of this ninety day period. 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:27.880 If that happens, I think governments are going to have 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:29.680 to shift gears. They're going to have to find money 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:33.360 from elsewhere, either inside their own budgets or they're going 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:35.840 to have to go looking to other countries to fill 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.520 the void. And this has drawn out a debate locally 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:43.640 about obviously just US influence in general and soft power, 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:45.760 the ability of the US to sort of chip in 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.280 on key areas such as health and education. 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:50.360 You mentioned funding. 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:54.400 Do some of these governments have the capacity in their 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:58.400 budgets to fund some of these programs or will they 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:02.080 look to external partners, as you say, to do the 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.160 bulk of to fill the book of the gaps that 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:05.120 may exist. 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.320 Well, in the case of Kenya, for example, the government 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:09.880 has said, you know that this is. 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:10.680 A wake up call. 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:15.360 It's actually also an opportunity for the government to really, 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:19.160 I guess, grab the bull by the horns and you know, 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.960 fund its own health sector more. But the reality is 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:26.839 that it's a heavily indebted country. There is a huge 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:30.200 amount of annual revenues going out just to paying off 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:35.760 interest on debt. We've seen protests recently in Kenya that 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:40.120 even managed to storm the National Parliament as a result. 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:42.520 So there isn't really much wiggle room for a country 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.760 like Kenya. And I think that's just one example, you know, 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.080 and Keny is one of the more performing economies in 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:48.520 the region. 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.160 This is a life saving situation and we cannot sit 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:56.200 and wait and begin on human life. So for us, 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.160 it's about the human life, the lives that we need 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:02.240 to save, so something needs to be done argently. 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:04.960 And finally, Simon su Dan. 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:09.960 You mentioned that what could this mean for the country 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.440 if in fact aid does not return in the way 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:14.520 that it was there before. 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:18.079 So Dan is obviously at the very sort of bottom 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:22.400 of the pyramid in terms of the absolute necessity right 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.559 for international aid. I think there is a growing famine. 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:30.720 The number of regions suffering from famine is growing quarter 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:36.000 by quarter, and the US is a massive component of 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:39.320 that aid, either through the World With Program or through 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:45.480 other NGOs present in the country. So it's a devastating blow. 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:49.080 I think there's a lot of hope right that once 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:53.240 certain officials come in Africa, officials related to the State 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:56.320 Department come in and start you know, actually talking to 0:13:56.559 --> 0:14:00.480 regional officials, that maybe some of responding can turn. But 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.280 you know, Africa is not the biggest focus of the 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.480 US administration, as other religions that are that are getting 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:09.560 more focus at the moment, and so we're still waiting 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:10.400 for that to happen. 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.000 So it's still it's unclear how this could play out 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:16.480 for the Sudanese people at this point. 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.360 Yes, unfortunately, you know, one of the one of the 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:25.120 really successful organizations to bring food to people in Sudan 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:30.080 were this network of suit kitchens and and they've just 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:33.480 literally stopped. They were dotted about in rural areas also 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.720 in Khartoum, the capital, a lot of people who relied 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.200 on them, you know, thousands and thousands of people. 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:40.080 Stay with us. 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.480 When we come back, we'll hear from our Healthcare and 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:46.520 Consumer reporter, JENSQ on what the reaction has been from 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:50.040 the healthcare community and how they might fill the shortfall. 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:56.240 We'll be right back. Welcome back today. 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.360 In a special episode of the Next Africa podcast, we're 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.720 focusing on the impact of the proposed near total closure 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:07.400 of billions of dollars of USAID projects in Africa. JENSQ 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:11.280 is our Healthcare and Consumer reporter based in Johannesburg and 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:13.920 has been covering this for well over a decade. 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.960 I started by asking her what role did USAID play 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:18.560 in Africa. 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:23.640 Broadly, it was responsible for development assistance and the programs 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:27.080 were wide and varied across thousands of initiatives in public health, 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:34.400 disaster relief, socioeconomic developments, environmental protection, democratic governance, and education. 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.920 Some of the key projects included ones around health research 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:41.160 working to PRID solutions to HIV, as well as food 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.680 and security, which is a big issue on the consonants. 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:47.960 So talk about the impact so far that you've seen 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:52.160 from the suspension of some of these programs, Where is 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:53.240 it being felt the most. 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.320 The recipients of this money have halted work and find stuff, 0:15:56.320 --> 0:16:00.000 and that abrupt manner has devastating consequences, especially for people 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.760 living with HIV as well as for other key and 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:07.120 vulnerable populations. Desimon two to Health Foundation Chief executive Officer 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:10.720 Linda Gail Becker says South Africa stands to lose twenty 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:14.240 five years worth of HIV investment if government can't pull 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:18.200 the gaps, with more than five hundred thousand HIV related 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:20.920 deaths expected to occur over the next decade because of 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:25.400 the terminations. A US funded HIV vaccine file, where South 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.360 African Medical Research Council had teamed up with scientists from 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.640 eight countries on the continents, has also stopped because of 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:37.040 the USID moves. And you know, from these examples, it's 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:41.120 very clear that the impacts is really really wide reaching, 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:44.600 and it's not just that the funds aren't there. It's 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.040 the manner with which it's been done, the abruptness of 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.640 it that is really key and very very destructive. 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.560 So then how concerned are some of these aid and 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.520 health agencies that you listen to time and time again, 0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:59.040 how concerned are they about this? 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.080 They're very concerned. No one knows where the funding will 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:05.480 come from and whether any of it will arrive in time, 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.399 and it's really quite overwhelming. I mean, when intricate and 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.880 interlinked programs are halted so abruptly, even if the money 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:15.200 comes in from elsewhere, it's hard to restart and build 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:18.440 up again, not least because certain programs are only successful 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.040 if patients actually come into the clinic or the facility 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.200 and get their mets. We saw this with COVID nineteen 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.919 when people were told not to come in, they didn't, 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:30.840 and then it really takes time to get people back in. Later, 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.240 we've seen this sort of the rookly effect of that 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:38.240 with vaccinations across the continent. A lot of vaccination programs, 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:43.240 routine vaccination programs for children specifically halted during COVID nineteen 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:46.840 because people were told only to come into a hospital clinic, 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:50.720 you know, in an emergency effectively, and so these things 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.159 really do take time to get back up and running. 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.720 There's also a lot of distress that comes in when 0:17:57.760 --> 0:17:59.959 things are halted so abruptly. It takes a lot of 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.560 work working with people on the ground in communities to 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:07.000 build that trust, and when something like this happens, that 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:10.600 trust is often destroyed, and so people just to go 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:16.200 back to the vaccination programs, reteen vaccination programs for children parents. 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:18.480 It isn't just that you have to make up the 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:23.280 backlog because certain shots have been missed at Milestone Ages, 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.760 but there's also distrust issue and people wonder if it's 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:30.439 really necessary and it's just very, very disruptive. 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:33.480 Is that how people on the ground would describe it 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:35.639 to you, jen as or are describing it to you. 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:38.119 Disruptive? I mean, what else are they telling you? 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:39.920 Chiotic would be another word. 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:40.240 I mean. 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:43.440 Yvettrafael, who I interviewed last year for a story about 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.600 HIV and aging, heads up a South African advocacy group 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:49.680 for the prevention of HIV and AIDS. She said last 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:53.400 week that the Trump administration, according to her organization, has 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:57.360 globally declared war on the rights to health in South Africa. 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:01.040 Health is a right and there are scores of people 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.320 who are describing the news of the Holtz's chaos as 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:07.800 the organizations have told the bulk of their colleagues, they 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.480 no longer have jobs. There are scores of people get 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:14.080 who were getting regular mades and already have no supplies 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.399 for life threatening diseases, and they've got no idea where 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.000 or when to get more for them. It's quite literally 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:24.399 feels like a death sentence. There was a briefing held 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:27.600 last week when the news started flowing through and these 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:31.560 emails that come for our region on the African continent, 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:35.240 a lot of these emails that come overnight, and people 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.760 from these various organizations, thousands of them were trying to 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.879 get onto this briefing. They actually had to give the 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:44.560 links to people afterwards because so many people were trying 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:47.040 to get on and the people who spoke, many of 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:50.600 them were incredibly emotional. I mean on the verge of tears. 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.160 It is that devastating for people. It's that real. 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:58.160 So Janice, what is the likelihood we'll see someone else 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.400 at least try to fill the gaps that USA Ideas 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:03.399 now is now leaving Africa. 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:05.960 CDC says that they have had some money come in 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:10.359 from Japan and Korea. There is an expectation that the 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:13.520 Middle East might step in to some degree. A lot 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:17.480 of the billionaires across the globe who have philothropic branches 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:20.640 or organizations are trying to see what they can do. 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:24.159 But I think even for them it's quite overwhelming the 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:28.000 amount of money, at least from the Africa CDC points 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:30.760 what's been offered so far from Japan and Korea. They 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:33.840 would never say that it's insignificant, because it's not. But 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:37.119 it's really just the top of the iceberg. And so 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:40.560 to really fill the gaps fully is going to take 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:44.320 a lot of work. Again, these programs didn't happen overnight. 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:48.600 This amount of money wasn't one big lump sum at 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:52.800 the start of something. It's been incrementally added over years 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:56.560 and years, and so it is very difficult to fully 0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:00.600 fund those gaps, and it's difficult to do it rush. 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:04.639 You know, had friends been withdrawn in more ugly mena, 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:07.120 but definitely would have been devastating. 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:12.480 And thanks so much to our reporters Nduka or Jinmo, 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.719 Simon Marx and jenis Q. You can read all of 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:19.720 their coverage and reporting on the suspension of USAID programs 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:23.960 across Bloomberg platforms now, including the Next African Newsletter. 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:25.960 Will put a link to that in the show notes. 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:33.480 This program was produced by Adrian Bradley and Tiwa Adubayo. 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:37.040 Don't forget to follow and review this show wherever you 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:38.560 usually get your podcasts. 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:41.880 I'm Jennifer's Abasaja. Thanks as always for listening.