1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 2: It's something that should have been done a long time ago. 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 2: Went crazy during the Biden administrative They went totally crazy. 4 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 2: What they were doing and the money they were giving 5 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 2: to people that shouldn't be getting it into agencies and 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 2: others that shouldn't be getting it was a shame, tremendous fraud. 7 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 3: America will become great again if they continue to support 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 3: the poor people, those who are in need of especially 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 3: the medical care. That's what I think. 10 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 4: Talk to the average American, do they want to see 11 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 4: people dying because of assistance cut off? You know, there 12 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 4: would have been a very clear and particular way to 13 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 4: reform the foreign assistance sector. 14 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 5: This suspension was immediately effectively, so that means if yesterday 15 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 5: your employees had to come back the following day to office, 16 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 5: you had to stop them because you had no money 17 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 5: to continue with them. 18 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 6: At the core of this, this is about an anti 19 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 6: rights agenda. This is not about the economics of making 20 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 6: countries such as South Africa and other African countries more independent. 21 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 6: This is a direct attack on the humanity of LGBTQI, 22 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 6: people of women, of girls, of children, and other marginalized groups. 23 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 7: One of President Trump's first actions after taking office was 24 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 7: to take aim at USAID, and last week, more than 25 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 7: ninety percent of the agency's activities in Africa were told 26 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 7: to seize, bringing an end to decades of programs tackling 27 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 7: poverty and diseases like HIV, tuberculosis, and ebola. In this 28 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 7: special episode of The Next Africa Podcast, we hear from 29 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 7: our reporters from all corners of the continent about what 30 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 7: impact this decision is having and how countries and AID 31 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 7: organizations are responding. 32 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 8: The future is uncertain because the government of ken actually 33 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 8: announced that they only have stoke for six months, so if 34 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 8: they don't do anything right now, it's going to become 35 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 8: a public health exhastin. 36 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 7: I'm Jennifer Zabasadja, and this is the Next Africa Podcast, 37 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 7: bringing you one story each week from the continent driving 38 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 7: the future of global growth with the context only Bloomberg 39 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 7: can provide. 40 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 9: We start this week in West Africa. 41 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 7: Over the past decade, the US has provided more than 42 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 7: seven point eight billion dollars in aid to Nigeria, supporting 43 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 7: everything from agriculture to HIV medication. 44 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 9: But now this may all stop. 45 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 7: The Nigerian Foreign Minister Yusuf Tugar gave his reaction to 46 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 7: Bloomberg earlier this week. 47 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 10: Nigeria has never been reliant on AID. What we have 48 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 10: always sought for is strategic solutions to the issue of 49 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 10: risk so that we can partner with countries and mitigate risk. 50 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 10: So what we were taking in in terms of development 51 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 10: AID is really not that significant and it's being covered. 52 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 7: So what does this mean for Nigeria. Our reporter Nduka 53 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 7: or Jinmo is based in a Buja. I started by 54 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 7: asking him what USAID actually funded in the country. 55 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 11: When you look across the country, you see the activities 56 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 11: of USAID, you know cat across. So you go to 57 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 11: some villages in South and Northern Nigeria and then you 58 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 11: see potholes that have been built by the USAID. But 59 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 11: I think they are most prominent interventions were in health 60 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 11: and this could across malaria, tuberculosis and most importantly you know, 61 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 11: walk around HIV and AIDS. Nigeria has the most people 62 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 11: living with the condition in western Central Africa, and that 63 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 11: funding went along when providing affordable treatment for them, went along, 64 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 11: when providing you know, things like the kind of support 65 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 11: services that they need. In funding angels that really worked 66 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 11: with them. There's an agency in Nigeria that is basically 67 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 11: dedicated to work around HI Young AIDS and that agency 68 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 11: said ninety percent of their funding over the years came 69 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 11: from USAI. So it just it shows you how immense 70 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 11: you know that that contribution was. 71 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 7: But at the same time, and Duka, we've been hearing 72 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 7: from some Nigerian officials saying that they've actually budgeted extra 73 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 7: money to fill the shortfall that now exists. Is it 74 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 7: enough to actually make an impact? 75 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 11: Well, the National Assembly they bought their two undred million 76 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 11: dollars to cover what they see, you know, the wholes 77 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 11: in the sectors that will be left by the USAID. 78 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 11: If that is enough, it's what we don't know what 79 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 11: since we begin to implement it. But my first instinct 80 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 11: to say it's not likely going to be enough. And 81 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 11: because there are several at of the agencies of government 82 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 11: that have not really reported to the Bilder Ministry how 83 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 11: much of their programs be impacted by the wither of AID. 84 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 11: So I'll give you an example. The Nigeria Bureau Statistics, 85 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 11: they do lots of the surveys around the economy. Is 86 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 11: that the inflation GDP on employment a chunk of the 87 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 11: funding that the gets comes from usa I D. Now 88 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 11: it's not a direct funding, so it comes from the 89 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 11: don't know agencies that have also received some funding from 90 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 11: from usa ID. So I guess these agencies have not 91 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 11: really calculated how much they will be losing. But I 92 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 11: don't think two d million dollars is going to plug 93 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 11: that hole. But what it means is that Nigeria at 94 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 11: least has a fall back option, especially in that's critical 95 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 11: sect of health where the government could not afford to 96 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 11: let most of those programs in the health sector in 97 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 11: all threes because the USCI defund and have been posted 98 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 11: well and. 99 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 9: We know from the pandemic. 100 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 7: I mean, you can plug a gap for for so long, right, 101 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 7: you don't know what is coming ahead. So what is 102 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 7: at risk if some of these programs and if some 103 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 7: of these stop gap measures are not actually sustainable. 104 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 11: Lots lots of at risk then and it's it's hard 105 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 11: to imagine what the cautions would be. So you're talking 106 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 11: about HIV and AIDS and Najeria has never really got 107 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 11: a grasp of the situation here where you still have, 108 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 11: you know, despite these interventions, you still have you know, 109 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 11: cases that keep going up. And then you look at malaria, 110 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 11: which is quite endemic here, and then things like tuberculosis 111 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 11: that's going to be quite devastating on the population, and 112 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 11: all forget a crusier part of this is the role 113 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 11: of proverty in all these situations. Most people who depended 114 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 11: on those services provided by US idea, that's that funding 115 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 11: where poor people, you know, in the rural areas, and 116 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 11: so imagine now they have to provide those drugs for themselves. 117 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 11: Imagine also you know that hospitals that the are used 118 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 11: of visiting in the neighborhoods shot down because they no 119 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 11: longer have that funding. So those consequences further down the 120 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 11: line can be there and unless something is done, I 121 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 11: mean in the shape of more funding either from outside 122 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 11: ordining drank governments basically redirected morphics resources to to those hosts. 123 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 7: Now and Andreka, you're you're obviously on the ground there. 124 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 7: What are people telling you? What are some of the 125 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 7: concerns that they're expressing at this point, given how fast 126 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 7: things have been moving since we heard aid was being pulled. 127 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 11: I've heard from people working in Manangeria's northeast regions. So 128 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 11: this is the area that has been affected by you know, 129 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 11: years of fighting insurgency and islam Mist insurgencies in that 130 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 11: in that region. So that's Grouno States, that's your base states, 131 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 11: parts of Adamara State and that's where you have you know, 132 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 11: the bulk of these interventions and heads from people who 133 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 11: are working at several UN agencies who've had to you know, 134 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 11: close certain departments, who've had to close, setting units, setting 135 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 11: programs that they are they are working on. And someone 136 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 11: working in the agricultural sector was saying, look, Nigeria was going. 137 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 9: To face forwarding security this year. 138 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 11: That will lead to millions of people, you know, facing 139 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 11: starvation because there was a huge flooding last year that 140 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 11: destroyed lots of farmblance in the north and some of 141 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 11: these programs from this AID was going to close that hole. 142 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 11: And now this has been caught, you know, it's going 143 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 11: to get worse. 144 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 9: And you could hear. 145 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 11: The concern, the deep concern in this person's voice. There's 146 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 11: no help coming from anywhere, you know, for these, for 147 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 11: these and agency, which is quite sad. So you think 148 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 11: of people, millions of people you know that have been 149 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 11: affected by years of four and the only help that 150 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 11: they knew, we know, was it coming in via in 151 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 11: all the American people, all that is now gone and 152 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 11: there's no immediate help coming to their. 153 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 9: Rescue to East Africa now. 154 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 7: As well as funding health programs, USAID was responding to 155 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 7: the civil war in Sudan, funding emergency kitchens across the 156 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 7: country which may now need to close. Our reporter Simon 157 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 7: Marx is based in Nairobi, and he told me what 158 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 7: the immediate impacts of the cuts have been. 159 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 12: Well, well, obviously a number of weeks into the eight 160 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 12: cuts that the US government has implemented, and they've been 161 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 12: very widespread in impacting a whole range of different health 162 00:09:54,440 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 12: programs from HIV treatment to tuberculosis, to Malay area to 163 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 12: vaccine research, to the ability of US officials to engage 164 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 12: in the spread of ebola in neighboring Uganda, and all 165 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 12: in all, I would say that there are a number 166 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 12: of NGOs who get direct funding from the US who 167 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 12: are looking to, you know, find find money from elsewhere. 168 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 12: They've they've had their funds frozen and so programs have stopped. 169 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 12: As well as that countries like Sudan where there is 170 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 12: a famine, terrible famine unfolding in many, many different regions 171 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 12: in NGO's soup kitchens that got money from the US, 172 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 12: for example, have have stopped all over the country. So 173 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 12: it's really aggravated the lives for many. 174 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 7: And Simon, there's been a bit of conflicting news about 175 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 7: whether partially some of the aid has returned or not. 176 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 7: But if it doesn't in fact return to the levels 177 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 7: that we saw before, how are people who you speak to, 178 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 7: how are they rec bonding to it. 179 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 12: Yeah, indeed, so as you said that some key sort 180 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 12: of life saving funding, there has been news come out 181 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 12: that this could come back, that there are indeed waivers. 182 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 12: I'm not aware of anything in Kenyawear money's come back 183 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 12: initially because people are just freezing while they see the 184 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 12: final decision at the end of this ninety day period. 185 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 12: If that happens, I think governments are going to have 186 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 12: to shift gears. They're going to have to find money 187 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 12: from elsewhere, either inside their own budgets or they're going 188 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 12: to have to go looking to other countries to fill 189 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 12: the void. And this has drawn out a debate locally 190 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 12: about obviously just US influence in general and soft power, 191 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 12: the ability of the US to sort of chip in 192 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 12: on key areas such as health and education. 193 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 9: You mentioned funding. 194 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 7: Do some of these governments have the capacity in their 195 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 7: budgets to fund some of these programs or will they 196 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 7: look to external partners, as you say, to do the 197 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 7: bulk of to fill the book of the gaps that 198 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 7: may exist. 199 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 12: Well, in the case of Kenya, for example, the government 200 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 12: has said, you know that this is. 201 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 11: A wake up call. 202 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 12: It's actually also an opportunity for the government to really, 203 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 12: I guess, grab the bull by the horns and you know, 204 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 12: fund its own health sector more. But the reality is 205 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,839 Speaker 12: that it's a heavily indebted country. There is a huge 206 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 12: amount of annual revenues going out just to paying off 207 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 12: interest on debt. We've seen protests recently in Kenya that 208 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 12: even managed to storm the National Parliament as a result. 209 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 12: So there isn't really much wiggle room for a country 210 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 12: like Kenya. And I think that's just one example, you know, 211 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 12: and Keny is one of the more performing economies in 212 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 12: the region. 213 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 8: This is a life saving situation and we cannot sit 214 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 8: and wait and begin on human life. So for us, 215 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 8: it's about the human life, the lives that we need 216 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 8: to save, so something needs to be done argently. 217 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 9: And finally, Simon su Dan. 218 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 7: You mentioned that what could this mean for the country 219 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 7: if in fact aid does not return in the way 220 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 7: that it was there before. 221 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 12: So Dan is obviously at the very sort of bottom 222 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 12: of the pyramid in terms of the absolute necessity right 223 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 12: for international aid. I think there is a growing famine. 224 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 12: The number of regions suffering from famine is growing quarter 225 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 12: by quarter, and the US is a massive component of 226 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 12: that aid, either through the World With Program or through 227 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 12: other NGOs present in the country. So it's a devastating blow. 228 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 12: I think there's a lot of hope right that once 229 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 12: certain officials come in Africa, officials related to the State 230 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 12: Department come in and start you know, actually talking to 231 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 12: regional officials, that maybe some of responding can turn. But 232 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 12: you know, Africa is not the biggest focus of the 233 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 12: US administration, as other religions that are that are getting 234 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 12: more focus at the moment, and so we're still waiting 235 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 12: for that to happen. 236 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 7: So it's still it's unclear how this could play out 237 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 7: for the Sudanese people at this point. 238 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 12: Yes, unfortunately, you know, one of the one of the 239 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 12: really successful organizations to bring food to people in Sudan 240 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 12: were this network of suit kitchens and and they've just 241 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 12: literally stopped. They were dotted about in rural areas also 242 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 12: in Khartoum, the capital, a lot of people who relied 243 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 12: on them, you know, thousands and thousands of people. 244 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 9: Stay with us. 245 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 7: When we come back, we'll hear from our Healthcare and 246 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 7: Consumer reporter, JENSQ on what the reaction has been from 247 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 7: the healthcare community and how they might fill the shortfall. 248 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 9: We'll be right back. Welcome back today. 249 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 7: In a special episode of the Next Africa podcast, we're 250 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 7: focusing on the impact of the proposed near total closure 251 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 7: of billions of dollars of USAID projects in Africa. JENSQ 252 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 7: is our Healthcare and Consumer reporter based in Johannesburg and 253 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 7: has been covering this for well over a decade. 254 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 9: I started by asking her what role did USAID play 255 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 9: in Africa. 256 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: Broadly, it was responsible for development assistance and the programs 257 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: were wide and varied across thousands of initiatives in public health, 258 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: disaster relief, socioeconomic developments, environmental protection, democratic governance, and education. 259 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: Some of the key projects included ones around health research 260 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: working to PRID solutions to HIV, as well as food 261 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: and security, which is a big issue on the consonants. 262 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 7: So talk about the impact so far that you've seen 263 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 7: from the suspension of some of these programs, Where is 264 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 7: it being felt the most. 265 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: The recipients of this money have halted work and find stuff, 266 00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: and that abrupt manner has devastating consequences, especially for people 267 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: living with HIV as well as for other key and 268 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: vulnerable populations. Desimon two to Health Foundation Chief executive Officer 269 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: Linda Gail Becker says South Africa stands to lose twenty 270 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: five years worth of HIV investment if government can't pull 271 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: the gaps, with more than five hundred thousand HIV related 272 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: deaths expected to occur over the next decade because of 273 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: the terminations. A US funded HIV vaccine file, where South 274 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: African Medical Research Council had teamed up with scientists from 275 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: eight countries on the continents, has also stopped because of 276 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: the USID moves. And you know, from these examples, it's 277 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: very clear that the impacts is really really wide reaching, 278 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: and it's not just that the funds aren't there. It's 279 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: the manner with which it's been done, the abruptness of 280 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: it that is really key and very very destructive. 281 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 7: So then how concerned are some of these aid and 282 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 7: health agencies that you listen to time and time again, 283 00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 7: how concerned are they about this? 284 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: They're very concerned. No one knows where the funding will 285 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: come from and whether any of it will arrive in time, 286 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: and it's really quite overwhelming. I mean, when intricate and 287 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: interlinked programs are halted so abruptly, even if the money 288 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: comes in from elsewhere, it's hard to restart and build 289 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: up again, not least because certain programs are only successful 290 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: if patients actually come into the clinic or the facility 291 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: and get their mets. We saw this with COVID nineteen 292 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: when people were told not to come in, they didn't, 293 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: and then it really takes time to get people back in. Later, 294 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: we've seen this sort of the rookly effect of that 295 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: with vaccinations across the continent. A lot of vaccination programs, 296 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: routine vaccination programs for children specifically halted during COVID nineteen 297 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: because people were told only to come into a hospital clinic, 298 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: you know, in an emergency effectively, and so these things 299 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: really do take time to get back up and running. 300 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: There's also a lot of distress that comes in when 301 00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:59,959 Speaker 1: things are halted so abruptly. It takes a lot of 302 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: work working with people on the ground in communities to 303 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: build that trust, and when something like this happens, that 304 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: trust is often destroyed, and so people just to go 305 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: back to the vaccination programs, reteen vaccination programs for children parents. 306 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: It isn't just that you have to make up the 307 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: backlog because certain shots have been missed at Milestone Ages, 308 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: but there's also distrust issue and people wonder if it's 309 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 1: really necessary and it's just very, very disruptive. 310 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 7: Is that how people on the ground would describe it 311 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 7: to you, jen as or are describing it to you. 312 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 9: Disruptive? I mean, what else are they telling you? 313 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: Chiotic would be another word. 314 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 4: I mean. 315 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: Yvettrafael, who I interviewed last year for a story about 316 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: HIV and aging, heads up a South African advocacy group 317 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: for the prevention of HIV and AIDS. She said last 318 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: week that the Trump administration, according to her organization, has 319 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 1: globally declared war on the rights to health in South Africa. 320 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: Health is a right and there are scores of people 321 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: who are describing the news of the Holtz's chaos as 322 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: the organizations have told the bulk of their colleagues, they 323 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: no longer have jobs. There are scores of people get 324 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: who were getting regular mades and already have no supplies 325 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 1: for life threatening diseases, and they've got no idea where 326 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: or when to get more for them. It's quite literally 327 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 1: feels like a death sentence. There was a briefing held 328 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: last week when the news started flowing through and these 329 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: emails that come for our region on the African continent, 330 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: a lot of these emails that come overnight, and people 331 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: from these various organizations, thousands of them were trying to 332 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: get onto this briefing. They actually had to give the 333 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: links to people afterwards because so many people were trying 334 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: to get on and the people who spoke, many of 335 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: them were incredibly emotional. I mean on the verge of tears. 336 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: It is that devastating for people. It's that real. 337 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 7: So Janice, what is the likelihood we'll see someone else 338 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 7: at least try to fill the gaps that USA Ideas 339 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 7: now is now leaving Africa. 340 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: CDC says that they have had some money come in 341 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: from Japan and Korea. There is an expectation that the 342 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: Middle East might step in to some degree. A lot 343 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: of the billionaires across the globe who have philothropic branches 344 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: or organizations are trying to see what they can do. 345 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: But I think even for them it's quite overwhelming the 346 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: amount of money, at least from the Africa CDC points 347 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: what's been offered so far from Japan and Korea. They 348 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: would never say that it's insignificant, because it's not. But 349 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: it's really just the top of the iceberg. And so 350 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: to really fill the gaps fully is going to take 351 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: a lot of work. Again, these programs didn't happen overnight. 352 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: This amount of money wasn't one big lump sum at 353 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: the start of something. It's been incrementally added over years 354 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: and years, and so it is very difficult to fully 355 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: fund those gaps, and it's difficult to do it rush. 356 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: You know, had friends been withdrawn in more ugly mena, 357 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 1: but definitely would have been devastating. 358 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 7: And thanks so much to our reporters Nduka or Jinmo, 359 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,719 Speaker 7: Simon Marx and jenis Q. You can read all of 360 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 7: their coverage and reporting on the suspension of USAID programs 361 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 7: across Bloomberg platforms now, including the Next African Newsletter. 362 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 9: Will put a link to that in the show notes. 363 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 7: This program was produced by Adrian Bradley and Tiwa Adubayo. 364 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 7: Don't forget to follow and review this show wherever you 365 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 7: usually get your podcasts. 366 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 9: I'm Jennifer's Abasaja. Thanks as always for listening.