1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Nol. They called 6 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: Alexis codenamed Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they 9 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: don't want you to know, uh, in a very real sense. 10 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: Several of our fellow conspiracy realists are here today because 11 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: this is our weekly listener Male segment where we share 12 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: some of the most fascinating and disturbing at times stories 13 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: brought to us by your fellow listeners. Today adventure will 14 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 1: uh take us down a bottomless rabbit hole. It will 15 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: take us to some unsolved crime. Uh, and we'll also 16 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: see some you know, troubling but oddly hilarious super village 17 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: that was unknowingly said on camera. So you're in for 18 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: a wild ride, uh, folks. You know, I just think 19 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: of one of the best ways to set up this 20 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: very first piece listener mail Noel is to maybe maybe 21 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about both your work and my 22 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: work with some of the crime shows that we've done 23 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: or produced based in the Pacific Northwest, one of which 24 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: I believe was called Murder in Oregon that UEPD. Is 25 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: that correct, Yeah, it was. It was one of the 26 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: projects that I've you know, back when I guess I 27 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: had more of the luxury to be able to do so. Um, 28 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: it's really hands on with It's been a lot of 29 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: time in Salem or again it's just the capital of Oregon. 30 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: But it's also like it's not it's not what you 31 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: would think of when you think Oregon. We've we've talked 32 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: about this before, but ore again, in my mind, has 33 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: always been this kind of liberal shining bastion, you know 34 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: in the woods. Um. And of course we associate that 35 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: with Portland, the dream of the nineties and all of 36 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 1: that Portlandia put a bird on it. Um. People from 37 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: Portland probably hate that image. And it's certainly much more 38 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: complex a city than that. The rest of Oregon is 39 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: is all over the place. I mean, it can get 40 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: very rural. Um. And it has a history of corruption. 41 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: Uh in law enforcement. UM, A lot of drug trafficking 42 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: goes on there. There have been a lot of like 43 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: the organized crime there over the years. Gentleman by the 44 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 1: name of Phil Stanford, who I worked with on both 45 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: the original season of Happy Face ben u EP the 46 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: second season of that show UM and the show Murder 47 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 1: and Oregon. Phil is a crime writer. Uh well, he's 48 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: true crime writer kind of almost like a hard boiled 49 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: detective type dude. He really is like that, you know, 50 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: epitomizes that image, like you picture I'm wearing a trench 51 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: coat and you know, carrying around a pad with a 52 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: spiral bound pad kind of and like you know, has 53 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: some kind of press credentials tucked into his hat. Not exactly, 54 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: but he's lived very interest life and he um has 55 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: written several books about Portlands and about Oregon and about 56 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,519 Speaker 1: the history of corruption in the government and all of 57 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,119 Speaker 1: this stuff in terms of vice because it was away 58 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: from the prying eyes of the mainstream, because anyone that's 59 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,239 Speaker 1: been there knows that Oregon is a very rugged, wilderness 60 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: e type place. And Salem Um is a very small town, um, 61 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 1: very sleepy kind of town. Even though it's the capital, 62 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: there's a big, you know, government complex. And the story 63 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 1: of Murder and Oregon has to do with the assassination 64 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: alleged assassination of a government official who was looking into 65 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: corruption in the state prison system, which is based there 66 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: in Oregon. UM. Today's story is another corruption and potential corruption, 67 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: alleged corruption and just conspiracy angle from the state of Oregon. 68 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: And it caught my eye because the the subject of 69 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: the email was Oregon the murder conspiracy state question mark. 70 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: And this comes from and UM gonna give a quick 71 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: quick summary of her email. UM, Hey, guys, this case 72 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: of a fifteen year old girl murdered in a small 73 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: Oregon coast town back in two thousand holds every required 74 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: element of a great suspense film except one thing. Who 75 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: did it? We thought we had the answer when the 76 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: boyfriend of the victim was convicted of voluntary manslaughter at 77 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven and sentenced to ten years. It would 78 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: be almost a decade later when it was discovered that 79 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 1: he didn't do it. He was released, and his filed 80 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: a lawsuit against just about any person that was involved 81 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: in the investigation, understandably so, UH, claiming he was set up, framed, 82 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: including my now deceased father in law, UM, who had 83 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: investigated the case originally. UM, I'm gonna leave the rest 84 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: of this out for now. But the UH we texted 85 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: a bit earlier, and when I mentioned I'd love to 86 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: pitch this as a full length episode, she was more 87 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: than happy to talk. She has a close direct connection 88 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: to this case by family UM and I think would 89 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: be a very interesting person to talk to UM in 90 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: regards to a full length version of this. But let's 91 00:04:58,040 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: do just go through the kind of broad strokes. She 92 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: did a good job of setting it up. But the 93 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: gentleman in question, whose name could not be more I 94 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: think ironic is the wrong word. It's just perfect. His 95 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: name is Nicholas mcguffin. He has to know what a 96 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: mcguffin is. It's like, yeah, of course it's a it's 97 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: a it's a plot device, you know, particularly used in film. Um, 98 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 1: that's essentially like a red herring, where it is a 99 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: thing or a character that is used to distract you 100 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: from the real thing or used exclusively to propel the 101 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: plot forward. Um, that's a mcguffin. It's sort of like 102 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: almost a misdirection. So this perfectly fits that. Because Nicholas mcguffin, 103 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: who is now thirty eight, has filed and named multiple 104 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: UH Coquil COO's County and Oregon State Police officials in 105 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: these multiple lawsuits UM, alleging that they trumped up evidence 106 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 1: against him in order to get their case closed. UM. 107 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: Essentially what happened is mcguffin was dating the victim, Leah Freeman, 108 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: who was fifteen at the time UM and mcguffin was 109 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: believe eighteen. UH. And this all happened in June of 110 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: two thousand. UM. Freeman essentially vanished after leaving a friend's 111 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: house UM, and one of her shoes was found by 112 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: a cemetery UM, and mcguffin was taken in for questioning. 113 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: Unbeknownst to him, the intent of bringing him in was 114 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: to photograph him and look for defensive wounds, which, of course, 115 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: are you know, cuts or things you know that might 116 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: have some DNA from the victim, or anything that looks 117 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: like he was in an altercation, UM, you know, during 118 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: this alleged homicide. UM. But he gets let go and 119 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: the case remains cold for almost ten years, no more 120 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: than ten years. This is in two thousand UH. In 121 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: two thousand eight, UH, a new sheriff comes into town 122 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: essentially new whatever. Yeah, I think sheriff is the right word. UM. 123 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: And he has a lot of pressure on him to 124 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 1: saw all of this almost decade old case. Uh. He 125 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: identifies suspects from the prior investigation, also realizes that like 126 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: tons of evidence was poorly handled and misplaced, even like 127 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: like there was some evidence that was shipped off to 128 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: Scotland Yard in the UK for analysis that they never 129 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: got back and they found like all of these un 130 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: developed roles of film. So it looks like there's some 131 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: negligence dare we say, even incompetence they're going on in 132 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: the first place, even um, But we will get into this, 133 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: you know, another another time. But essentially they were able 134 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: to get enough evidence together based on a shoe that 135 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: was found in the cemetery. UM. But by the way 136 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: they found the shoe in the cemetery and the initial 137 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: investigation not too far from there they found Leah Freeman's 138 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: body on like an embankment and in the woods um 139 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: and they got a conviction. The case went to a 140 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: grand jury and mcguffin was indicted UM and he was 141 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: found guilty of manslaughter, which is interesting. It was attend 142 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: to two verdict and was sentenced to ten years in prison, 143 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: which he spent part of at the Snake River Correctional 144 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: Institution and then got sent to a labor camp. Uh. 145 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: That's a whole other issue there, um in Oregon's uh 146 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: Tillamook State Forest. I guess the labor camp was preferable 147 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: because according to an ABC News article about the case 148 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: written by Lauren Efron, Karen Schiffman, Joseph Ree, and Ali Young, Um, 149 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: it's quite an in depth piece about the whole history 150 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: of the case, that was because of good behavior that 151 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: he got said of the labor camp. So, I guess 152 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: that was, you know, better than being in the Snake 153 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: River Penitentiary. But recently, just a couple of years ago, UM, 154 00:08:54,280 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: a Malhure County Circuit senior judge named Patricia Sullivan overturned 155 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: mcguffin's case conviction rather um because apparently some of that 156 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: evidence was processed uh in the Oregon State Police crime lab. 157 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: Um and and they and they knew this at the time, 158 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: but did not disclose that they found not only his 159 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: DNA on the girl's shoe, but another unidentified man's person's 160 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: DNA on the shoe. So um they the judge understandably 161 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: ruled that this should have been disclosed and that that 162 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: if the jury had known that information, then they would 163 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: have probably acted differently. So I think this is a 164 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 1: very interesting case. There's a lot more to it that 165 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: have we haven't gone into here, and I'd love to 166 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: put it forth for a full episode sometime soon and 167 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: and speak to about it as well, because she again 168 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: she has direct ties to the case. It's ongoing, um, 169 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: and there is a good bit of interesting detail that 170 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: we have that that shows that there could well be 171 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: a conspiracy of foot uh and and serious corruption going on, 172 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: whether it's only to cover up negligence or whether there's 173 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: something more nefarious going on there. Um. I think it's 174 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: one too to look into further for sure, So more 175 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: on that soon, UM. And thank you for that email 176 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: and for hipping us to this case. It's definitely there's 177 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: a lot of intrigue going on here, and look forward 178 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: to digging into it more. But for now, let's take 179 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 1: a quick break and we'll be back with more listener mail. 180 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: And we have returned first, this is this is a 181 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: listener mail from one of our fellow who conspiracy realists, 182 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 1: but this is also part of a larger conversation and 183 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: I'm personally thank everybody who's reached out to the show 184 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: or reached out to me one way or another to 185 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: ask a question that I have asked the crew off 186 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: air before, which is, why haven't we done an episode 187 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: about lobby If you're not in the US, you probably 188 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: recognize lobbying by its other name, which is bribery, and 189 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: it is legalized bribery here or functions in that way. Now, 190 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: that's not to say that all lobbyists are bad. There 191 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: are many, many groups and individuals who are lobbying the 192 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: halls of political power for the kinds of things that 193 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: we all think are generally good, like an increase in literacy, 194 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: more affordable health care in a country where you know 195 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: you can die because you are broke, not because not 196 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: because your condition is turbinal, but because you are broke. 197 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: So there are people lobbying, right sure, So there there 198 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: there no What we're saying is you can't can't throw 199 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: the entirety of the big money baby out with the bathwater. 200 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: But the rules of comedy do encourage us to punch up, 201 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 1: and so that's why I was so over the moon 202 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: to receive uh an email recently from Biker Girl. Biker 203 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: Girl did give us their real name, but we're going 204 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: to use your nickname because cool nickname, very pro nickname. 205 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: Crowd here, that is what we would lobby for. Are 206 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: one of the many things. Here's what you said, Biker 207 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: Girl sent a link the link of a story that 208 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: aren't even interesting to me, and I think several several 209 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: of my cohort as well. And uh, biker Girl, all 210 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: he said was, now that's a conspiracy. I'm sure you 211 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,599 Speaker 1: guys heard about it. It would be cool if you 212 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 1: guys covered it in a podcast. Well, good news, biker Girl. Uh, 213 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: you have become the proverbial straw on the podcast Camel's Back. 214 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: We're gonna finally do a full episode on the problems 215 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: with lobbying, at least in the US. And one great 216 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: example of this and and the power that can be 217 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 1: wielded behind the scenes here comes directly from your email. 218 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: So one of the many reports about a hapless lobbyist 219 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: named Keith McCoy, Chieth McCoy is having a bad month. 220 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 1: Beat a lobbyist can be fraught with complications and sometimes dangerous. 221 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: You know, there's a there's a great uh, there's a 222 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: great fictionalized series about lobbying called k Street. I believe, 223 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: And it was actually pulled after its second season, not 224 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: because of ratings. People like the show. It was pulled 225 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 1: at the direction of members of Congress because it's getting 226 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: a lot all too close to how the sausage is made, 227 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: how the port gets barreled. So Keith McCoy fell for 228 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: a prank. It is the age of the Internet. Pranks 229 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: are everywhere, you know, don't beat yourself up too bad 230 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: if you fall for one. But Keith believes that he 231 00:13:54,040 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: is at a job interview, right, and Keith is being 232 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: asked questions about his work with a company we all 233 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 1: probably recognized called ex On Mobile. And he doesn't just 234 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: spill the beans. He like takes a figurative can of 235 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: beans and one by one rubs them on his face 236 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: and then plays with them and you know, puts him 237 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: in his mouth and throws him back up a little bit. 238 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: And the people were interviewing him, by the way, they 239 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: love this because they have no intention of hiring them. 240 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: He has been duped by green Peace, which we mentioned 241 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: some green Peace activities in a previous episode on France's 242 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: terrorist attack in New Zealand right the Rainbow Warrior attack. 243 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: So green Peace they're known for their unorthodox um unorthodox protests. 244 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: There are un orthodox approaches to things. So activists from 245 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: green Peace posed as head hunters and they were going 246 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: to do zoom interviews with McCoy as well as a 247 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: former x ON lobbyists Dan Easily and McCoy gave an 248 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: insider view that was quite embarrassing x On Mobile and 249 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: should be I think in no small way distressing to 250 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: the average resident of the US or you know, the 251 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: resident of the globe. He said, look, ex On Mobile 252 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: will publicly support a carbon tax, because we're also working 253 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: to make sure it never gets enough support to actually happen. 254 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: It was like, we're he was like mac and always 255 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: stunny in Philadelphia, where he says, I'm playing both sides 256 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: so that I always come out on top. And then 257 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: you know, naturally someone's like, well, are you really because 258 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: you probably shouldn't say that to me. So he says 259 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: that carbon tax is a non starter, and you can 260 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: see him saying things, uh. You can see the footage 261 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: of this clips from this interview. As a matter of fact, 262 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: let's let's play one here. One of the chiefs of 263 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: the chief that you can go to the chiefs and saying, well, 264 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: we we've had this issue. We need Carressman seller so 265 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: to be avanking to introduced this. So we need him 266 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: to need him to send the letter name and for 267 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: every day. So this guy is all his cards, all 268 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: his beans on the table and he's saying, look exon 269 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: funds he forbat him says this ex on funds shadow 270 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: groups to spread misinformation about climate science. Because this particular 271 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: quote from him, did we join some of these shadow 272 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: groups to work against some of the early efforts. Yes, 273 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: that's true. He says something else important, even more disturbing, 274 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: But there's nothing nothing illegal about that. We're looking out 275 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: for our investments, We're looking out for our shareholders. And 276 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: then he talks about how they single out moderate Democrats 277 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: to push them toward the exons primary goal, which is 278 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: to you know, avoid increasing costs, avoid legislation that they 279 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: think goes too far to combat climate change. Uh, so far, 280 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: I want to check in, so this is not just 281 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: me monologueing guys. So far did you guys hear about 282 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: this story earlier? This is a few days ago. I 283 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: did that this is definitely an Apple News like shot 284 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: across the bow, and I was like, I think it 285 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 1: was Yahoo news that I initially like that it sent 286 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: me to I guess, and it didn't look like much 287 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: of an article. It just again, maybe I just don't 288 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: use Yahoo News enough and I couldn't ascertain whether it 289 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 1: was real or not, and I didn't take the time 290 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 1: to look into it. Though. I am back on that 291 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: article now today Ben and I noticed it pushing out 292 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: to a Guardian article that is given me a soft paywall. 293 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: I've never seen a paywall with the Guardian, by the way. 294 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: Oh wait, I just had to click on something and 295 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: said I'll do it later. Okay, Yeah, I think I 296 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 1: gave an email address earlier for the Oregonian too, But 297 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, is it is it that big of 298 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: a surprise? Uh? And you know they got caught, this 299 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: is the story, But I just you know, And of 300 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 1: course it's alarming when you hear the stuff like spelled 301 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: out in front of you and so starkly lit like this. 302 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 1: But I just can't imagine the kind of conversations like 303 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: minded lobbyists in this type of industry have over cocktails 304 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 1: like it's got a gut wrenching sure, but we're at 305 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 1: a bubble informationally, like the things that we understand a 306 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: love of our fellow listeners understand as gross and normal 307 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: and commonplace would probably astonished and discussed a lot of 308 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: other people. Uh. This is terrifically embarrassing for several members 309 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: of Congress because McCoy specifically shouts them out. He says, 310 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: I talked with Senator Joe Manchin, Democrat from West Virginia weekly. 311 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: I talked to his office all the time. He says, Look, 312 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: if we need Senator so and so to show up 313 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: on the floor to sign something, we need them to 314 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: write a letter, we could just ask for it. We'll 315 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 1: get him to do that. Campaign donate some more to 316 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: the campaign. And so he says that, of course this 317 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: is legal, he doesn't say whether it should be legal. Uh. 318 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:13,239 Speaker 1: He also has a he's also made a splash in 319 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: the ongoing debate. Of course, X on Mobile immediately walks 320 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 1: away from this as fast as they can without looking 321 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: like they're running. Uh. The CEO Woods said that the 322 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: lobbyists comments in no way reflect X on Mobiles position, 323 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: which is demonstrably untrue. That's the interesting what's interesting about 324 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: that statement is that it is false. Well, the it's 325 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 1: a cover right. The lobbying firms that are employed by 326 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: the company are then a cover. So this exact thing, 327 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:55,439 Speaker 1: if this thing happens, it's like paying for insurance. Uh 328 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: well that was our lobbying firm, of course. You know 329 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: they fight tooth and ale for our interests. But you 330 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: know we at x on Mobile would never ever say 331 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: those things or believe those things. Yeah again you can 332 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: Greenpeace posted the video online and you can see him. 333 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: You could say that he's just playing real politic in 334 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: a way because he says, Look, no one's going to 335 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: propose attacks on all Americans, and the cynical, cynical side 336 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: of me says, yeah, we kind of know that, but 337 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: it gives us a talking point. We can say, well, 338 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: what is x on Mobile for. Well, we're for a 339 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: carbon tax because we know it will never happen, because 340 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: we were to make sure it will never happen. Yeah. 341 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: I just watched this film um that just came out 342 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: an HBO Max called No Sudden Move with Don Cheatle 343 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: and uh Minicia del Toro. It is and it I 344 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: really like it that it uses wide angle lenses very 345 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: oddly where every shot, um, the camera moves and there's 346 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: distortion on the edges, like if you have a wide 347 00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: angle that you don't crop in. It's sort of an 348 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: old school techniink you get this weird kind of like 349 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: almost warping on the edges and vignette effect because it's 350 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: a little distracting. But people either seem to love it 351 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: or hate it. But I was a little distracted by it, 352 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: but overall thought it was a great movie. And maybe 353 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: this is a mild spoiler. I think it's pretty clear 354 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 1: from any of the marketing materials. But um, it takes 355 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: place in Detroit, and it's about essentially this relationship between 356 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: the Big four or the Big five rather um auto 357 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: auto manufacturers in Detroit and the idea of the catalytic converter, 358 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: the catalytic converter being a thing that for the longest 359 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: time was kept out of cars because of lobbyists and 360 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,199 Speaker 1: because of collusion with these different companies essentially saying they 361 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 1: could never get it down to a form factor that 362 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: would allow it to fit in a car. UM and 363 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: it was because they didn't want to spend the R 364 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: and D on doing that. They didn't want to pollute 365 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: less Um. And that's the kind of things that lobbyists 366 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: can really negatively impact. I mean, it's it's kind of egregious. 367 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: And going back to the specific example with McCoy, green 368 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: Peace has further said they're going to reveal claims that 369 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: Exxon fought in secret to prevent a ban on several 370 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: toxic chemicals and that Exxon is using a rinse and 371 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: repeat strategy for its playbook on climate change to head 372 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: off regulations and plastic Remember, folks, it wasn't too long 373 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: ago that the was it too long ago that the 374 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: corporate powers that be were telling you that the world 375 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: was going to hell at a handbasket because you have 376 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: the audacity to use a plastic straw. Right, never mind 377 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: that in excess of what eight nine something per cent 378 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: of the world's of the ocean's plastic waste comes from 379 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: commercial fishing. Like, it's all about putting the burden on 380 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,719 Speaker 1: the consumer, right, so that the company doesn't have to 381 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: pay or compensate for the amount of damage it's doing. 382 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: And you know, this becomes very sensitive to a lot 383 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: of people, but the issue is not really at this point, 384 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: it's not really a matter of where you stand in 385 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: the debate over government regulation or private business or you know, 386 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: um oversight or liberty or what other whatever other words 387 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: are being thrown around at a politician's convenience. This is 388 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: about misleading people. This is about transparency, and this is 389 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: a matter that will only become more important. If anything, 390 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: I feel like we're way overdue for an episode of 391 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 1: on Lobbying. It's probably gonna have to be a two 392 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 1: parter heads up. It's it's a murky business. I've had 393 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: connections with lobbyists and again, I'm not painting with a 394 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 1: broad brush. It just very quickly, you know, when we 395 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: see this amount of money, this amount of power, and 396 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: this lack of transparency, very quickly becomes perfect fertile soil 397 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 1: for all sorts of genuine conspiracies that do affect you, 398 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: they affect all of us. So we're gonna pause for 399 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors. Will be back in a 400 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: in a few weeks with with a deep dive into lobbying. 401 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: But in the meat time, head over to YouTube. Yes, 402 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: in the meantime, head over to YouTube and check out 403 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 1: that check out that interview. Spoiler alert, he didn't get 404 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: the job because Green Piece, you know, wasn't actually playing 405 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: to hire him and watch our original video. Should lobbying 406 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: be banned? And while you're doing that we'll take our 407 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: brief break and we'll return with one more piece of 408 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: correspondence from you, and we're back then. That reminds me 409 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 1: of that show Drilled. We spoke with one of the 410 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: creators and the hosts of that show Drilled. There reminds 411 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: me so much of that podcast, right, m all right, 412 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: So we're moving on to a message from We're gonna 413 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: call this person, Katie. I think that'll work out, Katie says, 414 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: I apologize in advance, as this may turn into a 415 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: Charlie Day conspiracy board with strings all over. I don't 416 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: know if I believe at all, but there are a 417 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: bunch of weird things that have happened that may be connected. 418 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: I'll try to be brief. There's a ton of rabbit 419 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: holes to go down here, depending on how much you 420 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 1: want to ruin your day researching cold trafficking and abuse YEP. 421 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: In the mid two thousands, the Center County, Philadelphia District 422 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: Attorney Ray Greek Car that's spelled r A Y g 423 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: R I c a R disappeared under mysterious circumstances. Eventually, 424 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: his computer was found with a hard drive missing. He 425 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: had been involved in declining to pursue investigating Jerry Sandusky. 426 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 1: That's uh the penn State Universities um monster anyway, that's 427 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: in Center County where he was the district attorney. Heresbury 428 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 1: gets crazy. John DeCamp named Sandusky as involved in child 429 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: trafficking and pedophilia in the late eighties early nineties during 430 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: his investigation into the Franklin cover up, which we have 431 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 1: spoken about on this show. Before the Franklin cover Up, 432 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: another Franklin cover up investigator, Gary Kara Dory, died under 433 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 1: mysterious circumstances in a plane crash after allegedly finding something important. 434 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: Maybe Ray Greekr Was changing his mind about Sandusky and 435 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,239 Speaker 1: was killed. They have been, as far as I know, 436 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: baseless claims that Sandusky and Epstein and even Saville we're 437 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: all connected. There's also another mysterious death from two thousand 438 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: three in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania of a u S Assistant 439 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: Attorney General Jonathan Luna that some conspiracies link with Ray Greekr. 440 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if it means anything, but it's super weird. 441 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: Thanks for reading. Take care, Katie. So there's a lot 442 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: of detail, a lot of proper nouns in that message, 443 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: from Katie. Thank you Katie for writing to us, but 444 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: we're just gonna dip our toes into this one for 445 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: today's episode. You can go over to north Central PA 446 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: dot com and read this article titled no answers sixteen 447 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: years later in disappearance of Center County d a PSP 448 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: says k still open. This article was posted February and 449 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: again it's talking about sixteen years after this initial disappearance. 450 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you some of the bullet points here 451 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,199 Speaker 1: from what happened to Ray Greekar, at least what we know. 452 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,959 Speaker 1: On April fift two thousand five, Ray Greekar told his 453 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,479 Speaker 1: girlfriend that he was going to head out for the day. 454 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: He wasn't gonna go to work. He was going to 455 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: go for a drive, and it appears that he did 456 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: just that. He went from his home to a place 457 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: called Louisburg, Pennsylvania, and he disappeared. His car was found there, 458 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: a Mini Cooper that happened to be read in color. 459 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: And inside this vehicle, by the way, they found it 460 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: two days later in the seventeenth but they found his 461 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: cellular phone which was turned off, and that's a two 462 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: thousand five cellular phone. I have no idea what model 463 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: of cell phone a district attorney would have that here, 464 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: but it's probably pretty nice. Um. They looked for him 465 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 1: for for quite a while to try and find evidence 466 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: of you know, perhaps he took his own life. Perhaps 467 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: you know something some foul play was involved, but it 468 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: was very strange. He was a missing person for for 469 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: a while. They turned up his computer, as Katie said 470 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 1: in that email, the hard drive was removed. It was 471 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: in the Susquehanna River and you know it had been 472 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: degraded quite a bit just from being in a in 473 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: a river and you know, not having a hard drive. 474 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: So there was no no real evidence picked up on that. 475 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: There's a bunch of weird things that could be factors 476 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: in here that are difficult to sift through. Because greek 477 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: Car was a district attorney, which meant he was the 478 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: point person in putting away a lot of people. Anytime 479 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: I'm the state or that you know that his district 480 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: was going toe to toe with someone too for prosecution. 481 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: He was the guy, So he probably made a lot 482 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: of enemies. And according to those nearest to him, they 483 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: would say that he was very cautious when deciding whether 484 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: or not to go forward with the case because he didn't. 485 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: You know, you don't want to go against a powerful 486 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: person unless you've got, uh an open and shutcase. I 487 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: think it's how you'd say, unless you're sure you can 488 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: you can prosecute effectively. And but the weird connections here 489 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: to Sandusky and some of the other stuff exists, it 490 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: would be up to us, you know, in doing some 491 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: some intense research here to decide if they're staying to 492 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: any of that stuff. The reason why I say that 493 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: is because in this article, as well as a few 494 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: other articles that have come out since his disappearance, including 495 00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: one in It's from NBC Channel ten Philade Elfia posted 496 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven titled d a who never charged 497 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: Sandusky has been missing since two thousand five. According to 498 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: that article, the original one we were talking about, and 499 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: several individual people that were close to him, they think 500 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: something else was going on. This wasn't a matter of him, 501 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: you know, choosing to disappear, choosing to you know, go 502 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: into witness protection or to you know, take his own life. 503 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: There's one person in particular we need to mention, a 504 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: man named Bob Buner. He's a former Montour County district 505 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: attorney who knew Ray really well. And I've got a quote, 506 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: two separate quotes here for you. He says, I spoke 507 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: with Ray right before he went missing. There was no 508 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: way he was remotely suicidal at that time in two 509 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: thousand five. He was getting ready to retire in a 510 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: few months, eight months to be exact. He was planning 511 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: trips across the country. He was going to see his 512 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: utter in Seattle, Washington. It was going to visit national parks. 513 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: He was going to enjoy himself after thirty five years 514 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: of being a prosecutor. Again, this party here is Buner's opinion. 515 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: But he does say that his relationship with Patty was 516 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,479 Speaker 1: his girlfriend's name Patty for Nicole. I think as how 517 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: you say it, Uh, it was very stable. He was 518 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: financially sound at that time in two thousand five. So 519 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: there aren't a lot of these tell tale signs that 520 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: maybe something was wrong that just people around him didn't know. 521 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: But again, if something was really wrong, many people wouldn't know. 522 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: It's a tough thing. So at least according to Bob, 523 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: everything seemed to be going well, and he doesn't at 524 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,719 Speaker 1: least believe that he would have done that he does say, 525 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: I strongly believe that there are several people who are 526 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: still alive who know what happened to Ray, know how 527 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: he was lured to Louisbourg, and know what happened when 528 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: he was there, because he says that many into Jewels 529 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: reached out to him early on in the two five era. 530 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: Who said these people reached out to Bob with this information. 531 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: He passed it on to investigators. And this is another 532 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: quote from Bob. I had a pretty strong sense of 533 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: in general who was responsible the actual details, No, but 534 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: specifically who did it? Yes, And it's weird because he uh, 535 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: just you know, dancing on the precipice of this rabbit hole. Uh. 536 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: You get the distinct feeling from this guy that law 537 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: enforcement was putting the slow sauce on some of this. Uh, 538 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: considering you know that the time, the fact that you know, 539 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: he wasn't interviewed until and the fact that he had 540 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: people reaching out to him. I believe there was at 541 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: least one source alleging that Greek car had quote run 542 00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,959 Speaker 1: a foul of a person who was in the witness 543 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: protection program. That is, I've seen that alleged, but you 544 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: know that's from Buna. That's a quote, Yes, exactly exactly. 545 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: He's alleging quite a few things here, but not giving 546 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: the details because he says he doesn't have the details. 547 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: It's like he knows the general information. He believes he 548 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: knows the general information. And again he passed on that 549 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: those leads I suppose to investigators. Well, he also wants 550 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: to be careful as as a professional. He wants to 551 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: make sure that he is not saying anything that he 552 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: cannot back up. Right. He wants that air tight case. 553 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: And you have to be really careful because a misstep 554 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,959 Speaker 1: could lead to someone escaping justice. Yeah, exactly. If he 555 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: says the wrong thing in an interview and somebody's name 556 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: leaks out there, then you're essentially changing public opinion or 557 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: possibly changing public opinion through the media before a trial begins, 558 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: which can lead to a mistro. I want to reach 559 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: you this last thing here because we're not even getting 560 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: into the Sandusky stuff yet. I told you about that 561 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: article from from NBC that you can check out, and 562 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 1: I'm we're gonna keep going down that rabbit hole. But 563 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 1: as far as that initial investigation into Ray Greekr's disappearance, 564 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: the current district attorney of Center County, a man named 565 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: Bernie Kintorna, says, quote, it is an open case. The 566 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 1: state police have a lead detective assigned to it. Every year, 567 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,839 Speaker 1: we get leads and we follow them up, basically saying, yes, 568 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: this is still ongoing. Sorry, I can't talk to you. Essentially, Um, 569 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: there is one weird thing, oh man. I found it 570 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: on the Charlie Project. So I wasn't even gonna bring 571 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: it up, but I'll just mention it here. According to 572 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: that site, Ray's brother, Roy greek Car, disappeared under similar 573 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: circumstances this this time it was in Dayton, Ohio. In uh. Quote, 574 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: he told his wife he was going out to buy 575 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: mulch and never returned. Later, his body was pulled from 576 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: the Great Miami River and his drowning was ruled a suicide. UM. 577 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: So I don't know. That's a bit weird, right, two 578 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 1: brothers going in a similar way. Uh. Raise stuff was 579 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 1: found in the river. That's very strange, very very strange stuff. 580 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 1: Yeah not. I mean, it's not hard proof that they're connected, 581 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: but I would agree with your assessment that it is 582 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: highly irregular the very least yep, that's it. Not making 583 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: any assessments here other than that was weird. Uh yeah, 584 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: so there's um, there's a lot more to go on here. 585 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,439 Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of answers, Katie, but thank 586 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,879 Speaker 1: you for putting us on the case. I'm gonna look 587 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,359 Speaker 1: into this further. We all will, hopefully, and maybe there's 588 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: a whole episode in here. Yes, yeah, well said. And 589 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: you know, thank you, not just too anonymous, not just 590 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 1: to biker Girl, not just to Katie by it, to 591 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 1: everyone who has tuned in, who has written to us 592 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: at our email address, who has contacted us on social 593 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: or found us via our phone number. We'll give you 594 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 1: all that stuff in just a second. Also, thank you 595 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 1: to everybody who's you know, called my name at a 596 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: crossroads at midnight, whisper into a mirror in the dark. 597 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: I mean, we try to be easy to find, but 598 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: before you resort to a cult means you want to 599 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: take a page from your fellow listeners book, why not 600 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 1: find us online? We'd love to hear from you. You 601 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: can do that in the usual Internet places of note, 602 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:39,360 Speaker 1: we are conspiracy stuff on Facebook, Twitter, and also YouTube, 603 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: where you can find daily stimpets of our audio podcast episodes. 604 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,919 Speaker 1: You can also find us on Instagram where we're conspiracy 605 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: stuff show not to mention on the telephone right. We 606 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 1: have a phone number one eight three three std w 607 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: y t K. When you give us a call, please 608 00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: tell us what you'd like to refer to you as 609 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. Can be any cool name or your 610 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: real name. 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