1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 3 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 2: us live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 2: Rouno with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 2: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 3: Welcome to the Wednesday edition of Balance of Power. We're 7 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 3: halfway through the week together as we join you live 8 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 3: from the nation's capital, where something big just happened. Did 9 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 3: you feel it? The ground shook a little bit, The 10 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 3: house past something and passed it by a lot three 11 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 3: point fifty two to sixty five. A new funding measure? 12 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 3: You ask, a new budget for our country to keep 13 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 3: the lights on past March. Maybe money for Ukraine the 14 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 3: billions they've been waiting for. No I answered all of them. 15 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 3: This is legislation that could lead to a ban of TikTok. Now, boy, 16 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 3: don't call it an outright ban. You'll hear from lawmakers 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 3: on that. Remember we talked about it. This is the 18 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 3: mechanism that would force Byte Dance to divest TikTok in 19 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:12,479 Speaker 3: a certain period of time. They give them six months 20 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 3: or be banned. Don't ask me who will buy it. 21 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 3: Don't ask me what Donald Trump's gonna say, or the 22 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 3: Senate for that matter. This sailed through the House. This 23 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 3: has been moving quickly. This statement from Chuck Schumer next 24 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 3: door where people think maybe this might actually not be 25 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 3: able to pass. Quote, the Senate will review the legislation 26 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 3: when it comes over from the House. Unquote. The reaction 27 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 3: from China what you'd expect, resorting to hegemonic moves as 28 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 3: we hear from Beijing in recent years. This is from 29 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 3: a spokesman from China's Foreign Ministry in recent years. Though 30 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 3: the US has never found any evidence of TikTok posing 31 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 3: a threat to US national security, it has never stopped 32 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 3: going after TikTok. And will they complete the band room. 33 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 3: There's a ban of federal employees using it on government phones. 34 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 3: The Biden administration or the campaign rather is also on TikTok, 35 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 3: and so is the Trump campaign. So maybe we're talking 36 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 3: out of both sides of our mouths here in Washington. 37 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 3: That would never happen. Of course, Dan Flatley is with 38 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 3: us from Capitol Hill, Bloomberg national Security Reporter, because Dan, 39 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 3: it's great to see you. This was done in the 40 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 3: name of national security, right They didn't want China collecting 41 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 3: data on Americans. Is this going to pass in the Senate? 42 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, Joe, absolutely. I mean, this is all done in 43 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 4: the name of national security. As you said, and you 44 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 4: mentioned that, the path forward in the Senate is much 45 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 4: less clear than you know, what we just saw happen 46 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 4: in the House, a big bipartisan vote, three hundred and 47 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 4: fifty two votes in favor, sixty five against. It's not 48 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 4: very often that you see a bipartisan vote like that 49 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 4: these days. But you mentioned Senator Chuck Schumer's statement, perhaps 50 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 4: you know, giving some to those who want to see 51 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 4: this bill pass the Senate. Is the statement from Senators 52 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 4: Mark Warner and Marco Rubio, the chair and vice chair 53 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,679 Speaker 4: of the Senate Intel Committee. They said that they were 54 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 4: happy to see the House pass this bill, want to 55 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 4: see something similar done in the Senate. They want to 56 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 4: work to get this House pass bill through here. The 57 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 4: problem is is that, you know, that's two senators out 58 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 4: of one hundred. They do have a lot of influence. 59 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 4: But the Senate, you know, will probably work its own 60 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 4: will on this, and as you know, Joe, any one 61 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 4: senator can really gum up the works. So it's going 62 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 4: to be a little bit of a different process over here. 63 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I'm taken by the statement dan by 64 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 3: Maxwell Frost to give us a sense where progressives are 65 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 3: on this. He's taking this as a First Amendment issue, writing, quote, 66 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 3: this legislation is an infringement on our constitutional right to 67 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 3: freedom of speech. That also places a nearly impossible condition 68 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 3: for the app to be sold within six months or less. 69 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 3: He says, it is unrealistic. Unquote, is there something to 70 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 3: be said for that? Is that First Amendment argument going 71 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 3: to be heard in the Senate? 72 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 4: It's possible, I mean, certainly, that's something that Kentucky Senator 73 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 4: Rand Paul intends to raise. He's said that already. You 74 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 4: mentioned a couple of other issues there, Joe, which is 75 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 4: the question of is this enough time for bitte Dance 76 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 4: to find a buyer for TikTok. It's a very valuable 77 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 4: company at this point, much more valuable than it was 78 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 4: a few years ago when then President Donald Trump tried 79 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 4: to ban it through a similar mechanism in the executive branch. 80 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 4: Six months is a very short timeframe. Actually, it's a 81 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 4: little bit shorter than that. It's about five and a 82 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,679 Speaker 4: half months technically, but if you, you know, look around, 83 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 4: there's no buyer that has come forward yet. You know, 84 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 4: maybe they're trying to keep their powder dry in that sense, 85 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 4: but it would be very expensive, obviously. The other thing 86 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 4: that you hear is that this just happened too quickly. 87 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 4: In the House, Lexandria A Casia Cortes earlier when she 88 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 4: announced that she would be voting against this mentioned the 89 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 4: fact that this just happened too quickly. Maxwell Frost also 90 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 4: mentioned the fact that this happened too quickly and that 91 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 4: while they have concerns about data leakage to China and 92 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 4: other things of that nature, this bill would not address 93 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 4: those concerns in a workable way. So that's kind of 94 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 4: what you hear from the opponents of this bill right now. 95 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, Dan, great, thank you for being up there for 96 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 3: US today. Bloomberg's National security reporter Dan Flatley with US 97 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 3: Live from Capitol Hill where it all just went down. 98 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 3: The bill has passed that could lead to the ban 99 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 3: of TikTok. Alexandria Cossio Cortez just mentioned by Dan issues 100 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 3: a tweet. I'm sorry, Susie hit me off at the 101 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 3: door and said, you gotta start calling it x it's 102 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 3: not Twitter anymore. I'm still calling it Twitter. I'm voting no, 103 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 3: she writes on the TikTok Forced Sale Bill. The bill 104 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 3: was incredibly rushed from committee to vote in four days 105 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 3: with little explanation. That is pretty remarkable in Washington. She 106 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 3: goes on to write, there are serious anty trust in 107 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 3: privacy questions here in any national security concern should be 108 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 3: laid out to the public prior to a vote. Maybe 109 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 3: that national argument has yet to be made. I'm Joe, 110 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 3: Matthew and Washington glad you're with us here. Our other 111 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 3: big story brings us to the campaign trail. It's on 112 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 3: the rematch. I know we all felt smart on Super Tuesday, 113 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 3: looked at what was impossible math for Nicki Haley certainly 114 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 3: anyone else running against Joe Biden in terms of Dean Phillips. 115 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 3: But when you actually reach that level and you can 116 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 3: call them presumptive nominees, it's meaningful. And we got there 117 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 3: last night. As we discussed, of course, it was a 118 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 3: primary day. We talked about Georgia and pretty interesting to 119 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 3: look at the results here as Joe Biden's victory in 120 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 3: Georgia put him over the top, but he still showed 121 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 3: some weakness here the polls coming out of these contests. 122 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 3: Donald Trump has his own challenges as well, again in 123 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 3: the state of Georgia. Joe Biden's problem might be in 124 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 3: the Midwest, as we've discussed Michigan, Minnesota, the uncommitted movement, 125 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 3: the protest vote that has been following him across the country. 126 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 3: But this is going to be the nation's first presidential 127 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 3: rematch in seventy years. We are actually doing this, the 128 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 3: longest campaign in modern history and the first rematch in 129 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 3: seventy years. As we dig into this with Nancy Kaffer, 130 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 3: a new voice on the program, I've been looking forward 131 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 3: to talking with you, Nancy, editor of the Detroit Free 132 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 3: Press editorial page. It's great to have you with us. 133 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 3: Joe Biden's got some weaknesses. A lot of them have 134 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 3: been discussed openly, certainly around the State of the Union address. 135 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 3: It was all about his age, but his policies are 136 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 3: bringing challenges for young progressives and voters of color. What's 137 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 3: your view from Detroit where Michigan is everything? 138 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, it's really a pleasure to be here. Yeah, 139 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: I think that there were some really alarming results in 140 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: Michigan's primary outcome, and I think you're seeing those uncommitted 141 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: voters in spread to other states. You're seeing this movement spread. 142 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: We're talking about a state where Donald Trump won by 143 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: ten thousand votes in twenty sixteen and Joe Biden won 144 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: by one hundred and fifty thousand votes in twenty twenty. 145 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: These are really thin margins, particularly twenty sixteen and near 146 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand uncommitted voters in Michigan after a three 147 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: week campaign to get this up and running. So this 148 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,719 Speaker 1: is this is you know, Biden has been around, He's 149 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: done this before. He's I'm sure concerned and is trying 150 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: to He's figure out what he can do to turn 151 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: these voters. 152 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 5: Back to his cause. 153 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 3: He's got union workers to worry about as well. He's 154 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 3: walking the picket line as the first president to carry 155 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 3: a sign with the UAW just months ago. And all 156 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 3: I keep hearing, Nancy, is that the rank and file 157 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 3: UA doub you're going to vote Trump when you add 158 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 3: these two together, knowing that the razor thin margin we're 159 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 3: talking about here, this is a potential problem. He's losing 160 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 3: Michigan in Bloomberg's swing state pole. Does that accurately reflect 161 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 3: the lay of the land there. 162 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: I think it's really hard to tell. I mean, yes, 163 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: he's been consistently polling poorly here since last year, and 164 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: you know it certainly cause for alarm. I think we 165 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: are still several months out from the election. Inflation is 166 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: going in a different direction. You know, it's hard kind 167 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: of I mean, I know it's we're getting closer to 168 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 1: the election, but it still is. We've still got a 169 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: lot of time for things to go differently. We've got 170 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: a lot of time for folks to realize that walking 171 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: into the polls, this's a binary choice that it's Joe 172 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: Biden or Donald Trump, that there's not a sort of 173 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: third fantasy candidate that they can select. 174 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 5: But yeah, if I were the Biden camp, I'd be worried. 175 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: I'd be I'd be trying to do what I could 176 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: to get Michigan back into my column because there is 177 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: no Look at that electoral map, I don't see a 178 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: path for victory for him except for through the Midwest. 179 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 5: Do you. 180 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 3: That is absolutely right, which is why we keep talking 181 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 3: about it. I mean, he's just without Michigan, without Wisconsin. 182 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 3: Ask Hillary Clinton how that's going to go. Here's a doozy, Nancy, 183 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 3: and I can't figure it out. We can talk about 184 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 3: economic polling all day long, and you can point me 185 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 3: to inflation and higher prices and I get it. But 186 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 3: for Joe Biden to see no post State of the 187 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 3: Union bump in the polls, to me is a screamer here. 188 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 3: This was lauded as the speech of his lifetime last week. 189 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 3: Even Republicans said, yeah, boy, he cleared the bar. He 190 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 3: was yelling at us from the rostrum. We're not going 191 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 3: to be talking about cognitive challenges here in the near term. 192 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 3: But if you look at five thirty eight, yesterday's updated 193 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 3: approval rating average is a new all time low. What 194 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 3: do you think about that? 195 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, man, Buble, I don't know 196 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,599 Speaker 1: how many it's it's a I mean, it's it's become becoming. 197 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 5: Clear with every poll. 198 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: Like he he has got to really campaign the hell out. 199 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 5: Of these states. 200 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, you know, in Hillary. 201 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 5: Can I say that? Could I say? 202 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 6: Yeah? 203 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 3: I just did? 204 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 5: Okay, Sorry for newspapers, we have a little more time 205 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 5: to self at it. I'm sorry. 206 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 3: Hey, I work in a newsroom. It's all good, Nancy. 207 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: So you know, in twenty sixteen and Hillary Clinton sort 208 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: of famously didn't campaign in Michigan for nine months and 209 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: that did not go well. I mean, similar issues in 210 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, and again we saw how that turned out. 211 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: Those three states have voted in lockstep for I want 212 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: to say, at least twenty years, maybe more so. I 213 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: think it's it's going to be also interesting to see 214 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: to these states split off this time? 215 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 5: Is it ASCO's Wisconsin? So goes our nation? 216 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: Like? 217 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 5: How how does I of the Midwest? Like how does this? 218 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 5: How does this? Uh? 219 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: How does this all play out here? But yeah, he's 220 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: got to get here. He's got to win these voters 221 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 1: back or he's in big trouble. You know, one hundred 222 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: thousand voters is it's a lot. It's a lot of people. 223 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: And especially considering again the short period of time in 224 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: which this uncommitted campaign got up and running. Now, typically 225 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: you see about twenty thousand people vote uncommitted in. 226 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 5: Every presidential primary. I'm kind of curious about that. 227 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: I didn't really realize it was such a phenomenon until 228 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: this year when when this campaign started. 229 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 5: But yeah, you get about twenty thousand people in. 230 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: Every primary who choose uncommitted, except for some weird years 231 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: where weird things happened in primaries, like in two thousand 232 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: and eight when Obama wasn't on the primary ballot, here 233 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: like three hundred thousand people voted uncommitted as a proxy 234 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: for Obama. But yeah, so eighty to one hundred thousand 235 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: people here dissatisfied enough with Joe Biden's presidency to go 236 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: to go out and make that choice. We also, you know, 237 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 1: this was centered around Gaza, and we have the largest 238 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: air American community in the country in Detroit. But our 239 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: precinct level analysis after the primary show that this wasn't 240 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: this wasn't contained to the more densely air of American 241 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: communities in metro Detroit. This was a problem at University 242 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: of Michigan, for Biden, for any st lancing at Michigan 243 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: State University, that these university communities with young progressive not 244 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: simply air of American voters, which is, as I think 245 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: someone smarter than me said, not a lot of states 246 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: have a high air of American population, but most states 247 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 1: have liberal college challenge fulled with young progressives, so sort 248 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: of a spreading problem. 249 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 3: Well, you really put your finger on something there Nancy 250 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 3: in our in our Last moment, speak to that because 251 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 3: we're we're not including issues that could be dogging Joe 252 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 3: Biden that are economic related when it comes to young people, 253 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 3: the promise of student loan forgiveness, the promise of legalizing cannabis, 254 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 3: things that they heard on the way in that have 255 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 3: not happened yet. That's part of the problem here, isn't it. 256 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 5: It is? But the other thing is he has moved a. 257 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: Lot of domestic policy, and he's got to get better 258 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: at talking about it and better at convincing people that's 259 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,559 Speaker 1: made a difference in their lives. We're in a weird 260 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: world where people don't always evaluate the facts on the ground. 261 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: How do we feel about the facts on the ground, 262 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: how do we feel about things that have happened? 263 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 5: Is a competing factor. 264 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: But also telling people like, no, you're wrong, things went 265 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: well for you isn't a winning strategy either. So I 266 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: think he's got an incredibly difficult job to do. But 267 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: he does need to start talking more and more convincingly 268 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: about the things he has actually done for Americans if 269 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: he wants to turn that tide. 270 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 3: Well, I'm glad you can come talk to us today. Nancy, 271 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 3: don't be a stranger. We'd like to stay in touch 272 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 3: with you over the course of this campaign with the 273 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 3: view from Detroit and from Michigan, where she is editor 274 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 3: of the Detroit Free Press Editorial Page, one of the 275 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 3: nation's great newspapers. Nancy Caffer, thank you for your insights. 276 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens 277 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 2: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple CarPlay and 278 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 2: The Oh with the Bloomberg Business Act. You can also 279 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 2: listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 280 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 2: j Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty. 281 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 7: Here in Washington, we often talk about how difficult it 282 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 7: is to come by a bipartisan effort to get anything 283 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 7: through both chambers of Congress, frankly, which of course are 284 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 7: controlled by Democrats in the Senate Republicans in the House, 285 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 7: and there's usually not a lot of bipartisanship to be found. 286 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 7: But this TikTok bill that passed the House today did 287 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 7: so on pretty remarkable bipartisan grounds. Three hundred and fifty 288 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 7: two people Joe voted for the bill, only sixty five against. 289 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 3: Amazing, and it had to be a pretty overwhelming number 290 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 3: under suspension, we needed two thirds. They crossed that bar cleared. 291 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 3: It isn't it amazing though, these two different universes, because 292 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 3: it's not clear that this could pass the Senate or 293 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 3: that Chuck Schuber will even bring it to the floor. 294 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 7: Yeah, because of course, some senators have expressed concern about 295 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 7: what this means in regard to First Amendment rights, potentially 296 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 7: what precedent this could set for, say, US companies that 297 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 7: operate in other jurisdictions. And of course there's concerned that 298 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 7: the youth vote may get mad if you take their 299 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 7: TikTok away. The thing is, though lawmakers will tell you, 300 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 7: this is not a bill to ban TikTok. That would 301 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 7: just be the consequence if TikTok is not divested from 302 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 7: byte Dance, of course, the Chinese parent company. And that 303 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 7: is the point that the House Democratic Leader Hawking Jeffries 304 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 7: made earlier today. 305 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 3: Take a listen. 306 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 8: I don't support a ban on TikTok. The legislation did 307 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 8: not ban TikTok. It's simply a divestiture of TikTok so 308 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 8: that this social media platform can be owned by an 309 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 8: American company that would protect the data and the privacy 310 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 8: of the American consumer from malignant foreign interests like the 311 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 8: Chinese Communist Party. 312 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 3: Just don't call it a ban. As Seth Molton schooled 313 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 3: us the other day. Here around this time on this broadcast, 314 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 3: the Democrat from Massachusett's talking about the vote. Here turn 315 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 3: to Maxwell Frost. If you want to really know how 316 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 3: progressives feel, the Democrat from Florida saying in a statement, 317 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 3: this legislation is an infringement on our constitutional right to 318 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 3: freedom of speech that also places a nearly impossible condition 319 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 3: on the app to be sold within six months or less. 320 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 3: It's unrealistic. That's where we start our conversation with the ambassador. 321 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 3: Been looking forward to seeing Mark Ginsburg. We tend to 322 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 3: speak about geopolitics and we might get there. But Mark Ginsburg, 323 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 3: the former Ambassador to Morocco, is also the founder and 324 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 3: president of the Coalition for a Safer Web and is 325 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 3: deeply involved in this conversation. Mister ambassador, welcome back to Bloomberg. 326 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 3: It's great to see you. Should TikTok be banned? 327 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 9: Oh, I'm all on favor. I would have voted if 328 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 9: I had a vote on this one. But let me 329 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,360 Speaker 9: you know, it's great to vote on these on these 330 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 9: bills that actually will unfortunately die along death in the 331 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 9: courts when it's going to be challenged. And I'll explain 332 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 9: you why we filed a lawsuit. Organization filed a lawsuit, 333 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 9: which this legislation is directed at, at both Apple, both 334 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 9: Apple and Google to remove the TikTok app from their 335 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 9: app stores. We did the same with Telegram because it 336 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 9: was providing support for terrorism. Several years ago. The Ninth 337 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 9: Circuit in California threw our case out on the basis 338 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 9: that such a court that this type of interference would 339 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 9: violate Section two thirty of the Communications Decency Act. So 340 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 9: I'm one of those folks who says, yeah, let's go, 341 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 9: but I have long experience understanding how complicated this is. 342 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 9: Even though there is a legitimate reason to essentially divest 343 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 9: TikTok from by Dance and have it owned in the 344 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 9: United States. 345 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 7: So a legitimate reason perhaps, but legal questions and the 346 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 7: legality around this is something that actually Brendan Carr, a 347 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 7: commissioner over at the FCC, talked about earlier today on 348 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 7: Bloomberg Surveillance. Just take a listen to what he told 349 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 7: us this morning, and then we'll have you respond. 350 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 10: This plainly is a conduct law, meaning we're acting because 351 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 10: of the demonstrated malign national security threat of TikTok, not 352 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 10: because of the content of anybody's speech. And the bill 353 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 10: is narrowly tailored, which is key for First Amendment analysis 354 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 10: because it simply requires divestment, meaning the millions of Americans 355 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 10: that love TikTok, I'm not one of them, but they 356 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 10: can continue to use the application, but just in a 357 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 10: more secure way. 358 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 7: So I guess, Ambassador, I kind of have a two 359 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 7: part question. One is it narrowly tailoreded enough that potentially 360 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 7: it would survive legal challenges, But also isn't the narrow 361 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 7: tailoring part of the concern you're hearing on the other side, 362 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 7: which is that this is naming a speci ccific private 363 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 7: company in legislation targeting It is narrow both potentially a 364 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 7: good thing, and about that. 365 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 9: I think this is a pylon because if you flew 366 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 9: to Beijing today, you would not be able to not 367 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 9: be able to go on your phone and read anything 368 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 9: from Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or whatever, because China bans all 369 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 9: of those US apps. So there's an issue of reciprocity here. 370 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 9: That's number one number two Kley from the strictly legal 371 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 9: point of view and from someone like me who works 372 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 9: with all of these platforms and sees the content, the 373 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 9: extremist content. I mean, TikTok is not the worst, but 374 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 9: it's one of the great offenders. Give you an illustration. 375 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 9: When the October seventh massacre occurred in Israel, Hamas used 376 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 9: TikTok to you to retain influencers on TikTok to disseminate 377 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 9: its proper again to operations into the US. Okay, Now 378 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 9: that stinks to high heaven. The fact that TikTok has 379 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 9: no algorithms or content moderation to stop that. And that's 380 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 9: one of the problems. We've seen all sorts of extremist 381 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 9: content on TikTok. It's not the innocent playground a lot 382 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 9: of folks make it out to be, even if you 383 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 9: argue about its Chinese ownership. But this law doesn't deal 384 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 9: with that. This law does not solve that. 385 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 3: Problem, Ambassador Ginsburg. TikTok says it not only intends to 386 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 3: exhaust all legal challenges which we're talking about here, but 387 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 3: a divestiture, it says, would also require approval by the 388 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 3: Chinese government, which of course, says it would firmly oppose 389 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 3: a forced sale. We heard from the Chinese today. You 390 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 3: could have written this statement in advance. In fact, they did, 391 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 3: they issued it before the vote took place. But what 392 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 3: will that mean in this process? 393 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 9: I don't know or how anyone is going to acquire 394 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 9: TikTok in the United States because the magic potion that 395 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 9: makes TikTok TikTok is its unique algorithm, and you can't 396 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 9: force the Chinese to divest the algorithm if it owns 397 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,159 Speaker 9: the company. And so no matter what happens here, I 398 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 9: don't know who is going to want to put up 399 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 9: billions of dollars if the Chinese refused to provide you 400 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 9: the secret gateway of what makes TikTok TikTok. 401 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 7: Well, there's also the question, Ambassador, of who would be 402 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 7: allowed to buy TikTok. This is not going to be 403 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 7: a cheap acquisition. Someone has to make it in the 404 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 7: hundreds of billions of dollars. So realistically it would have 405 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 7: to be a larger company that would try to buy it, right, 406 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 7: but big tech antitrust is kind of a big thing 407 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 7: here in Washington. I can't imagine any big tech company 408 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 7: being allowed to get bigger very easily. 409 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 9: Gosh, you hit the nail on ahead. I mean, is 410 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 9: Mark Zuckerberg going to go off and buy it? Is 411 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 9: going to be someone else? Is Trump's truth Social Company 412 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,199 Speaker 9: going to go ahead and buy it? I mean the 413 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 9: problem here is that there is the antitrust issue and 414 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 9: most importantly, the anti competitive issue that is going to 415 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 9: be set up should anyone acquire. That's why I'm saying, 416 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 9: anyone who's sitting here and worried about this becoming instantaneous 417 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 9: law and bye bye TikTok, that's a lot more gray 418 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 9: hair on my head before I see this happen. 419 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 3: Surprised you didn't mentioned Larry Ellison Oracle is already hosting 420 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 3: TikTok's US data ambassador. Wouldn't that be an obvious buyer? 421 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 9: Uh? Yeah, it's possible, but that again depends on whether 422 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 9: Larry Ellison is going to be able to convince China 423 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 9: to let him buy the algorithm. And I just don't know. 424 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 9: You have Look, you have to break this down, guys. 425 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 9: You have the customer base, okay, and you have the 426 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 9: dissemination through the servers, but you've got to have the 427 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 9: algorithm that permits the videos to be curated the way 428 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 9: they are. And if someone can develop the AI here 429 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 9: in the United States and substitute it for the algorithm 430 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 9: that is owned by by Dance, that's going to be 431 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 9: an important accomplishment to justify the sale. 432 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 7: All right, Ambassador Markensburg, always great to have you on 433 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 7: the program. Of course, he is the founder and president 434 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 7: of Coalition for a Safer Web. We appreciate your time today, sir, 435 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 7: and now we want to turn to our political panel. 436 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 7: Genie Schanzino is with US Bloomberg Politics contributor alongside Lester Munson, 437 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 7: BGR Group, co head of the International Practice and the 438 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 7: Republican Strategist. Thank you both so much for joining us. Lester, first, 439 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 7: to you. Considering overwhelmingly House Republicans supported this measure, despite 440 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 7: perhaps the feelings of former President Donald Trump. Do you 441 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 7: think Republicans in the Senate will do the same? Is 442 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 7: this going to be able to pass the other chamber? 443 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 11: I think, you know, it's a great question. K I 444 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 11: think if this comes to a vote and the and 445 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 11: that's a decision for Democrats to be clear, it comes 446 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 11: to a vote, I think Republicans are going to be 447 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 11: hard pressed to not vote for it. In other words, 448 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 11: I think I think Republicans will do much in the Senate, 449 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 11: will be much like House Republicans and will vote for 450 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 11: this despite what you know, President Trump's ambivalence or even 451 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 11: leaning in favor of TikTok here, I think because that's 452 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 11: what they're that's where their base is, that's where kind 453 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 11: of the voters are. There's a lot of skepticism of 454 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 11: TikTok and the China connections, and I think voter and 455 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 11: if it comes to a vote, that's where senators will be. 456 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 3: Genie, you're surrounded by young people every day as a 457 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 3: professor at Iona University, and I wonder your thoughts on 458 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 3: this broadly. We just asked Ambassador Ginsburg if this should 459 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 3: be banned, if you actually agree with this movement to 460 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 3: begin with, when you hear from the Maxwell Frosts of 461 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 3: the world, this is a violation of the First Amendment, 462 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 3: and a lot of folks see this legislation as a setup. 463 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 3: What's your answer though, to the national security worry? 464 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 12: You know, I think the national security concerns are obviously real. 465 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 12: I do wish that we had more information on that 466 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 12: aspect of it. You know, this has been one of 467 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 12: the challenges here because I think my concern and I 468 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 12: wouldn't say this is the concern of the young people 469 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 12: I talked to. My concern is, okay, you ban TikTok? 470 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 12: Is there truly no other way for China or the 471 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 12: Communist Party to get our private information? The reality is 472 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 12: we are living in a country with no real privacy concerns, controls, 473 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 12: or regulation. And you know, there's just been some really 474 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 12: good research out showing how easy it is and I 475 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 12: put easy in quotes to gather this information for somebody 476 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 12: with the means, with the money, and with the interest. 477 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 12: And so I worry that, like so much else in Washington. 478 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 10: D C. 479 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 12: What we're getting here is a you know, a slight 480 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 12: nip at something that is very popular right now going 481 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 12: against the Communist Party. But I'm not convinced yet how 482 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 12: effective it will actually be in you know, really securing 483 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 12: us as a nation and securing our privacy as individuals. 484 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 12: And of course I do have First Amendment concerns, but 485 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 12: you know, national security has got to be you know, 486 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:27,959 Speaker 12: the most important concern. 487 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 3: But Kaylee, aren't all of Genie's students is going to 488 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 3: VPN around a band anyway isn't that What we've learned is. 489 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 7: That's the question. Will they still be able to access 490 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 7: the platform assuming the band goes in place? 491 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 3: This isn't true to the village happened? Should they not divest? 492 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 3: Should this even become law? 493 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 7: This is a backdoor to TikTok, But using a VPN 494 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 7: to get to TikTok kind of underscores the perhaps desperation 495 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 7: to be on TikTok and the addiction that some people 496 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 7: have in genie. As we talk about your students are 497 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 7: just youth in general, a group that say, President Biden 498 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 7: is hoping we'll re elect him come November. Could there 499 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 7: actually be political consequence to lawmakers doing this, to Biden 500 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 7: signing it? 501 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I. 502 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 12: Think that's why we've seen in part why we've seen 503 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 12: Donald Trump say, hey, you know, maybe not so fast. 504 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 12: I think, you know, Donald Trump for monetary reasons and 505 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 12: also for vote reasons. We're looking at one hundred and 506 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 12: seventy million people on this app. But you know, just 507 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 12: what you guys are talking about the VPN again another example, 508 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 12: how effective is this really? If a five year old 509 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 12: can work around it in three seconds? So that's what 510 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 12: makes me think that This is more rhetorical than effective 511 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 12: in terms of, you know, really show really securing our 512 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 12: national security interests and also our privacy interests. 513 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know how to do that, right, I don't 514 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 3: know how to do that. You know how to do that? 515 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 7: Well, this is something the ambassador was bringing up. You 516 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 7: can't use a lot of stuff in China. When I 517 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 7: went to China, it used to VPN to use my stuff. 518 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 3: In chinable hook Ye happens. Don't worry. Where is producer 519 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 3: James going to get his golf tips? Where will we 520 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 3: get our recipes? 521 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 9: Right? 522 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,479 Speaker 3: TikTok? Yeah, I don't know. The jury's still out on 523 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 3: this one. Thanks to our panel, Lester and Genie. Well, 524 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 3: they'll be back with more next here on Balance of 525 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 3: Power Only on Bloomberg. 526 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 527 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 2: us live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple car Play 528 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 2: and then roud with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on 529 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 2: demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live 530 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 2: on YouTube. 531 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 3: Welcome to Balance of Power. It is the Wednesday edition. 532 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 3: I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington alongside Kayley Lions, and the 533 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 3: rematch is set one of our top stories today. Joe 534 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 3: Biden Donald Trump, the two a majority of voters have 535 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 3: said they do not want in a rematch. Yep are 536 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 3: now the presumptive nominees. You cannot deny the math the 537 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 3: under election. While we feel like it really started in 538 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 3: New Hampshire, I guess officially begins today, Kayley. And it's 539 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 3: going to be a long one. 540 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 7: It's going to be a marathon, not a sprint. This 541 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 7: will be about eight months that we will be in 542 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 7: a general election campaign between these two and whoever else 543 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 7: is involved, Robert at Kennedy Junior, potentially a third Labels ticket, 544 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 7: whoever that may be. But the question I have is, 545 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 7: we are talking about a former president and a current president. 546 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 7: The name idea, the name recognition has to be as 547 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 7: close to perfect as you could possibly get. And a 548 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 7: lot of people probably have their minds made up already 549 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 7: of what they think of these two individuals. So what 550 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 7: do you what can you change over the course of 551 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 7: even an eight month long. 552 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 3: Period, making it pretty difficult for both of these candidates 553 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 3: to move the needle beyond what they're walking in with. 554 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,239 Speaker 3: It's a really great point. And when you see the 555 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 3: polls here five point thirty eight telling us today that 556 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 3: Joe Biden, who seemed to not clear the bar but 557 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 3: leap over it in the State of the Union address, 558 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 3: having heard from Republicans and Democrats on this program agreeing 559 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 3: with that, got no bump from the State of the 560 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 3: Union address, as history would tend to provide. In fact, 561 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 3: five point thirty eight says updated approval rating average is 562 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 3: now a new all time low for Joe Biden. 563 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 7: Pretty incredible. So on this note, we want to turn 564 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 7: to one of our politics gurus here at Bloomberg. Gregory 565 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 7: Cordy is with US who covers national politics for US 566 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 7: here with Us in the Washington, d C studio. So, Gregory, 567 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 7: the matchup is set. It's the matchup we all knew 568 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 7: was coming as it was, and pretty much to the 569 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 7: entire American voting populace knew that they were ultimately going 570 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 7: to have to choose to decide for one of these 571 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 7: two or maybe not show up at all. So what 572 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 7: realistically can change now that the general election cycle has 573 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 7: begun between now and November. 574 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 6: Yeah, when we talked last week, it was just after 575 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 6: Super Tuesday. This felt like anticomactic Tuesday. 576 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 9: Right. 577 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 6: We all knew who the nominees were going to be, 578 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 6: and yet our story on this matchup is one of 579 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 6: the most read stories on the Bloomberg terminal, and I 580 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 6: suspect part of that is our global audio is just 581 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 6: now sort of waking up to the realization that there 582 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 6: are no off ramps here. This is the matchup we're 583 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 6: going to have. It was baked in the cake all along. 584 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 6: And as you say, these are two of the best 585 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 6: known public figures, never mind politicians, in American life going 586 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 6: back over the past half century. There aren't many undecided voters. 587 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 6: And so to answer Joe's question, I think the answer 588 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 6: is not voters deciding whether they support Trump or Biden, 589 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 6: but whether they show up or not show up. 590 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 10: Huh. 591 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 6: And that's particularly a problem on the Democratic side, where 592 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 6: there does seem to be a dampening of enthusiasm for 593 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 6: Joe Biden compared to four years ago. And the job 594 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 6: for Democrats and for President Biden is to remind voters 595 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 6: why they voted against Donald Trump in the first place. 596 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 3: No off ramps, says Gregory Cordy, We're just Thelma and 597 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 3: Louise right off the cliff. So look at what happened 598 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 3: in Georgia last night for Donald Trump. Specifically, george is 599 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 3: what put Joe Biden over the top. He won Georgia. 600 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 3: People might forget by eleven seventy nine votes. Guess what 601 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 3: Nicki Haley got seventy seven thousand yesterday. I know you're 602 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 3: going to tell me that there was early voting, but 603 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 3: that's got to mean something. 604 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's absolutely a lot large part of that is 605 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 6: early voting, people who voted before she dropped out, and 606 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 6: she remained on the ballot even after she dropped out, 607 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 6: and so there were a number of those. By the way, 608 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 6: Chris Christy got something like one percent. So there are 609 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 6: candidates who remain on continue to get votes, if not delegates. 610 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 6: And yes, to answer your question, there there is a 611 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 6: question on the Republican side. We just talked about the 612 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 6: enthusiasm problem that Democrats have, but for Republicans, one of 613 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 6: the questions is do these traditional Republicans come home to 614 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 6: Trump or do they do what a lot of them 615 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 6: did four years ago, and that is say, look, we 616 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 6: need we need a change, we need to start reset 617 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 6: here and hopefully then we can get a Republican we 618 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 6: like better in twenty twenty four. Now that that hasn't happened? 619 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 6: Do they vote for Trump again? And hope maybe twenty 620 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 6: twenty eight brings a more traditional style Republican. 621 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 3: Had Gregory, thank you, it's great to have you with us. 622 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 3: Anti climactics Tuesday? Are we going with that? No off 623 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 3: Ran not Super? I guess not super at all. 624 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:17,720 Speaker 7: Any other Tuesday. 625 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 3: I think Super Tuesday was either the bumper sticker twenty 626 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 3: twenty four. No off Ramps. Let's reassemble the panel with 627 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 3: that uplifting thought. Jeannie Shanzano is back. Democratic analyst Bloomberg 628 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 3: Politics contributor, joined by Republican strategist Lester Munson at BGR Group. 629 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 3: Try to lift you up here, Jeannie, but this is 630 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,760 Speaker 3: what we have. How does Joe Biden try to leverage 631 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 3: the moment here if he can't get a bump out 632 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 3: of the State of the Union. 633 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 12: Yeah, no bump. You and Cayley make me very depressed. 634 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 12: This is gonna be a hard meats. I think, you know, 635 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 12: I think what we're going to see on both sides, 636 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 12: because they are both as wildly unpopular as Gregory just 637 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,760 Speaker 12: was taught talking about, is they are gonna be talking 638 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 12: about Hey, wait a minute. You may not love me, 639 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 12: but look at the other guy. He's dangerous, he's you know, incompetent, 640 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 12: he's stupid, you know, all of the things. So I 641 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,839 Speaker 12: think it's gonna be an incredibly negative campaign. I think 642 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 12: we're already seeing that, and it's just gonna get worse 643 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 12: from here. So I guess we do have to buckle 644 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 12: up to use your Thelma Louise reference. 645 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 3: Sorry, yeah, take that bet. 646 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 7: And I'm sure Lester your bunk buckled up as well. 647 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,280 Speaker 7: To the point Joe was asking Gregory about the seventy 648 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 7: seven thousand Nikki Haley voters in Georgia, I'm sure takes 649 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 7: some of that off for early voting before she actually 650 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 7: left the race. But even when she was in the race, 651 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 7: we were seeing that there was what twenty to even 652 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 7: forty percent of Republican primary voters she were specifically making 653 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 7: the choice not to pick Donald Trump. How worried should 654 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,399 Speaker 7: he be about trying to draw those voters back into 655 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 7: his camp over the next eight months. 656 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 11: Well, that's clearly his biggest challenge. And in addition to 657 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,839 Speaker 11: you know, kind of driving out his base voters, he's 658 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,799 Speaker 11: got to appeal to those nicky Haley voters. There's an 659 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 11: obvious move here for Donald Trump if he wants to 660 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 11: do it, which is persuade NICKI Haley to be his 661 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 11: running mate. This is, you know, effectively what Joe Biden 662 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 11: did four years ago. He went and found his toughest 663 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 11: critic in the primary, Kamala Harris, and made and brought 664 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 11: her inside the tent. Donald Trump could do that. If 665 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,919 Speaker 11: he can do that and demonstrate some flexibility, I think 666 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 11: that that changes the dynamic for him and makes it 667 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 11: makes his victory a little more likely, maybe substantially more likely. 668 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:43,400 Speaker 3: In November, we talked about the no Labels effort a 669 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 3: couple of days into the Super Tuesday week because that 670 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 3: was going to be the moment they held a secret ballot. 671 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 3: They say they're going to run someone. Well, we still 672 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,800 Speaker 3: don't have anyone. There have been reports about names, Genie 673 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 3: and I wonder if you're still waiting for something to 674 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 3: emerge that could be a game changer, or if your 675 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 3: focus is locked on RFK Junior, who today has the 676 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,399 Speaker 3: nation in a lather over his potential vice presidential pick. 677 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 12: Bring it on, Aaron Rodgers, Jesse Ventura, It's going to 678 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,240 Speaker 12: be a fun one. You know. I can't help, but 679 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 12: again say that for no Labels or quite frankly, any 680 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 12: other third party non party. They don't like to describe 681 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,800 Speaker 12: themselves as a party. The idea that they are going 682 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,320 Speaker 12: to be able to get electoral votes is really difficult 683 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 12: to imagine. And so what they will be doing is 684 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 12: spoiling and that remains a big, big problem. So, you know, 685 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 12: I don't I would love to see where the sponsorship, 686 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 12: the money for No Labels is coming from, what the 687 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 12: rules are going to be, and all those kinds of 688 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 12: things that they say they're going to tell us, So 689 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 12: hopefully we get that information. But I think spoiling is 690 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 12: really the watchword when it comes to No Labels, and 691 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 12: I understand that's not what they wanted to do. 692 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 7: So, Lester, do you agree on the on the spoiling point? 693 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 7: And who is there any candidate that No Labels could 694 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 7: put up, any ticket to candidates Republican Democrat that they 695 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 7: could put up that would not act in that spoiling capacity. 696 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,760 Speaker 7: Is there any world in which it actually might work? 697 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 9: Kelly? 698 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 11: As a lifelong Chicago Bears fan, I can tell you 699 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 11: that Aaron Rodgers is a game changer. Uh And and 700 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 11: I don't necessarily mean that in a good way. No 701 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 11: he's he's. He would be the ultimate game changer, would they? 702 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 11: Would no labels be a spoiler the probably probably. But 703 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 11: if there were ever, if there were ever a year 704 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 11: where the where a third party on the ticket could 705 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 11: make a difference and get some electoral votes, it's this one. 706 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 11: The two main candidates are so unpopular that there's just 707 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 11: this there seems to be. Seems to me that there's 708 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 11: a real lane for a vibrant third party candidacy to 709 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 11: make a difference here. So I wouldn't while I suspect 710 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 11: Genie's corrected it'll end up spoilering, I would not rule 711 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,400 Speaker 11: out that if they get the right the right people 712 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,399 Speaker 11: on that ticket, that it could be something different this time. 713 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,760 Speaker 3: Interesting. I don't know, Genie. Maybe Aaron Rodgers could redefine 714 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,760 Speaker 3: the role and be like a working vice president, still 715 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 3: play the games on the weekends, you know, maybe a 716 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 3: little less policy that time of year. Do Joe Rogan 717 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 3: on the side deliver the message for this new administration, 718 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 3: We just figured a lot out. 719 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 12: I feel like, yeah, you are really selling it, Joe. 720 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 12: I think that's the way to go. And you know, 721 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 12: maybe it'll start a trend. We'll have vice presidents who 722 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 12: are doing two three other jobs at the same time. 723 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,239 Speaker 3: Everyone on this show knows Jesse Ventura would be more fun. Lester. 724 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 3: Let's admit it right now. 725 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 11: You know he's got a great screen presence. He was 726 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 11: terrific in Predator, as I recall, and he was like, yes, 727 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 11: maybe maybe not great as governor of Minnesota, but pretty 728 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,320 Speaker 11: good on TV and in the movies. 729 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 3: The ain't guy time to bleed campaign? I can see 730 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,759 Speaker 3: it and hear it. Kaylee is not on board with 731 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,800 Speaker 3: me on this great panel, Lester. Thank you Lester Monson 732 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 3: at BGR. Genie Schanzo, Bloomberg Politics contributor, thank. 733 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 6: You for humoring needing. 734 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,319 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make 735 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 3: sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 736 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find 737 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,280 Speaker 3: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern 738 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 3: at Bloomberg dot com.