WEBVTT - Cool Rerun Part One: The Jane Collective: Direct Action Abortion Access Works 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:04.800 Cool Zone Media. 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:07.720 Hello and welcome to Cool People who Did Cool Stuff. 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:11.200 I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy. This is a rerun episode. 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:15.800 Everyone loves rerun episodes. Why is this the rerun episode? Well, 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.920 a couple reasons. One of them is that some stuff 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:21.320 happened this week. You might have been there, you might 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.600 have noticed. But the other reason is that I'm on 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:28.320 tour right now and I'm finally headed back home, which 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:30.159 means that I will be back to being able to 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:35.080 record in a more easy way instead of recording intros 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:39.440 in a rest area somewhere in California in the morning. 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:43.160 Is what I'm doing. Anyway, This rerun episode is about 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:48.040 the Jane Collective. You see, imagine a time when abortion 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:51.400 isn't legal in the United States. It's probably easy for 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:53.960 you to imagine if you live in a lot of 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:58.480 states right now, and yet most people are okay with it, 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:02.120 which we all saw at the polls last week. What 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:04.040 a bunch of people did is they got together and 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.920 they offered abortion services safely, and developed new technology for 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.920 them and did all kinds of amazing things even though 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:15.440 it was a crime. Because sometimes resistance looks like protest, 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:19.520 and sometimes it's just outright crime, which we would never advocate, 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:21.759 but we sure will talk about some of the people 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:27.400 who did it as cool on this podcast. Hi, Margaret 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:30.760 here with Samantha, today's guest, recording a new introduction to 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:33.720 this episode because a lot has happened since we recorded 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.480 it only a couple weeks ago. Normally, this is a 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:39.240 history podcast in the way that our subjects tying to 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.440 current events is left up to the listener's imagination. But 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:46.160 this is kind of an exceptional moment because when we 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.080 recorded this episode, which is about abortion access and direct 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.160 action abortion access, specifically the Jain collective. Well, I guess 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:53.560 you all saw that when you saw the title of 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.960 the episode when you downloaded it. We kind of joke about, 0:01:56.960 --> 0:01:59.920 I think during the course of recording about not joke 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.200 what we say, Well, the overturning of Roe v. Wade 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.600 is a potential threat, and since then we've obviously all 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:08.560 seen that. There's a leak's document that says, well, it's 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:12.280 not a potential threat, it is an almost certainty that 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:16.160 is happening. The Supreme Court intends to overthrow Roe v. 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:16.560 Wade. 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.160 Samantha, do you have a better overview than that? 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:24.239 So here is what we have been able to read, 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.799 and what we know that in this lite document, they 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:31.960 have already voted to overturn Roe v. Wade, and they 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.720 did it through the Supreme Court case of Dobbs v. 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:38.600 Jackson Women's Health Organization, which is based out of Mississippi, 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:41.519 which also is a trigger state. And if you don't 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:43.600 know what trigger state is, it means they are ready 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.760 to go the minute Roe v. Wade is overturned, that 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.840 there will be an immediate ban on abortion the second 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:53.120 it happens. So they are called the trigger states. And 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:56.720 there are several we'll mention that in a minute, and 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:00.880 Mississippi is one of those. So in this brief that 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.880 we read from Judge Alito, who is the one that 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:06.720 has written this up, it is ninety eight pages long, 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:10.960 with like forty pages of an appendix to talk about 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.120 his argument about why Roe v. Wade should be overturned. 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:16.680 And he begins his statement, and I think it's something 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:18.960 that we need to talk about because the language in 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.200 itself is going to be repeated throughout. I'm not going 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:23.400 to read it, I swear to god, I'm not. I cried. 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:25.200 I screamed at the computer when I was reading this, 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:28.320 and dissecting it, and I want to vomit as we 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:33.560 are talking about it. But in it he writes, yeah. 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:36.360 He begins the statement with talking about how divisive this 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:40.680 issue is and is a profound moral issue. So he 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:44.600 is allowing this conversation to take into a whole load 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:48.480 of feelings and automatically place what he feels is morality 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:51.640 and his own morality onto this. So that's how it begins. 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.040 And then he talks about the fact that the Constitution, 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:58.240 and we hold that rowan Casey, which is the Casey 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:01.560 versus Planned Parenthood, which happened in the nineties that helped 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.440 keep up with the bro v Wade, that it must 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:08.200 be overruled. The Constitution makes no reference to abortion, and 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:12.000 no such right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision, 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:15.040 including the one on which the defenders of Roe and 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:18.960 Casey now chiefly rely, the due process clause of the 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.080 fourteenth Amendment. So in that clause, just for people, I 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:24.320 have a feeling so many people, the people listening to 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:25.800 this are so smart, they're gonna be like, would you 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:28.200 shut up and move on? But just in case, just 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.240 in case, it's that privacy, the right to privacy, which 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.720 is not necessarily mentioned, but it is based in this 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:36.640 and they took that language and said, yes, this is 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.960 about privacy. So that's very important, as we know, because 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:44.279 it goes to a slew of other unconstitutional constitutional things. 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:47.720 So he talks about that, and that he continues on 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:51.320 that provision has been held to guarantee some rights that 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:54.920 are not mentioned in the Constitution, but many such must 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:58.960 be quote deeply rooted in this nation's history and tradition 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:04.280 in the concept of ordered liberty. So ordered liberty as 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.239 well as nation's history is going to be all throughout 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:11.560 this brief. His whole stance is that because it was 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:15.679 never mentioned in the Constitution, that it was never ever 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:19.279 a constitutional thing and should not be allowed as a 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:22.159 constitutional thing, and that it wasn't even mentioned to be 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:26.520 a right until nineteen seventy three. And because of that, 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:30.560 this is not a constitutional issue. And the other part 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.600 to this is that ordered liberty. So when we talk 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.720 about ordered liberty, this is when he is saying that 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:39.240 he and a certain amount of people have the right 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:41.800 to tell you what your liberties are, and they get 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.640 to tell you what is orderly. So this is why 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:47.320 we're talking about how this is going to overturn it 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.640 because he's able to make this a state's right thing, 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:54.400 in which he said that's how it's always been, that's 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:58.320 how it's always should be. Roe v. Wade overstepped because 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:01.480 they took something out of context from an eighteen sixty 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:08.360 eight idea of this constitutional conversation. So where we are today, Yes, 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.760 there's back and forth right now about it's not that 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:15.560 big of a deal because the states can govern. It's 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:23.080 not an outright ban technically what we were talking about earlier, 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:25.400 what I was talking about earlier with the trigger states. 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:33.520 The states are Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, Texas, Louisiana, Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, Arkansas, Mississippi, 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:38.039 North Dakota, South Dakota, and Oklahoma. And even though in 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.120 my state of Georgia, they don't necessarily have a trigger law, 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.560 yet what they have done is come at the abortion 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.880 clinics and abortion facilities telling them go ahead and get ready, 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:51.960 and so a lot of the clinics have stopped taking 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.760 appointments and canceled the appointments at this point in time. 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:58.080 So it's very very dangerous in where we are, even 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:01.719 though it's not necessarily a trigger state. Those who are 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:06.640 sitting in most likely more liberal left leaning are quote 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:10.400 unquote okay, it is those who are what would be 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:12.840 the red states that could be heavily heavily affected. 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:16.080 Yeah, And what people I think often forget when they're 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:18.440 like sitting comfortably in their blue states or whatever, is that, 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.040 you know, the margins that we're talking about. The difference 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:22.720 between a red state and a blue state is actually 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.600 not incredibly dramatic. It's not like the red states are 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:28.360 all like, you know, ninety percent people who want to 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:30.040 get rid of this or something like that. It might 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.680 be fifty one percent or even well, I guess actually 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.280 abortion itself, what is it like sixty nine percent of 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:36.160 Americans right. 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.440 Like seventy percent who want to keep it, and in 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:40.480 the state of Georgia is sixty eight percent as well. 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:42.560 So even though people think of us as just like 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:45.320 the you know, silly red state, though we prove them 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:48.560 wrong in the last few elections. And I know this, 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:51.600 I am with one hundred percent with everyone when I 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:54.680 say this government is bullshit and there's things to be 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:57.560 so many things changed, and I am frustrated to the 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.720 core because nothing like somethings are better and this is 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.120 better than it was, but at the same time, what 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:07.000 happened in twenty sixteen really really fucked up everything else, 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:10.680 and what we are seeing is the detriment of that. However, 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:15.240 it's not a fix all. I understand this, But what 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:17.239 we're saying is in the state of Georgia, the majority 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:20.040 of the voters, who are typically women of color and 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:24.080 people of color, are all about our current senators and 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:26.600 those who are pushing to that point. But Jerry Manderin 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.840 has made it almost impossible as well as voter suppression, 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.560 to get to move and push it to the right direction. Nearly, 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:37.000 I do say nearly, and it's frustrating because yes, we 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:39.760 are going to be affected, even though Georgia is not 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.760 a trigger state as we were talking about earlier. Obviously 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.400 he's already had he being governor, Kemp has already put 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:48.680 in the six week ban and just kind of sitting 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:51.800 in a court right now. And if these things change 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:53.319 is over Yeah. 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:57.240 Well, honestly, I mean, besides the fact that we have 0:08:57.280 --> 0:08:59.680 an unelected shadow council that makes still the decision about 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:03.040 what happened with our bodies. Really, the point of this 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:05.600 episode that you all are about to listen to is 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:09.240 about direct action abortion access and how even when the 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:13.240 law is not on your side, this is still going 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:15.800 to happen, and how can we make it happen as 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:19.640 well as possible, as safely as possible. There's also, unfortunately 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.040 other effects that could happen beyond just this. I was 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:26.240 talking to my lawyer, the amazing Moira Meltzer Cohen, who 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:28.000 said that we need to be prepared for all of 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:31.480 the penumber cases, which are cases that put forth the 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:35.920 idea that constitutional due process implies a right to privacy. 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:40.520 This was called the Penumber basically during Griswold versus Connecticut, 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:44.360 which is the case that legalized birth control, and so 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:47.160 basically saying that they had a penumber a sort of 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:52.360 shadow that implied rights to privacy, and lawyers on both 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:54.480 sides have been arguing that this is a terrible and 0:09:54.600 --> 0:10:00.240 flimsy legal standing for a very long time. There are 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:03.240 things that rely on that include, as I mentioned, birth control, 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:07.160 but also gay sex or really any sex that isn't 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:11.600 for procreation could theoretically be criminalized once again. And so 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:12.839 what we're going to do is we're going to link 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:15.280 to a lot of resources in the show notes encourage 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:18.920 people to look into things, look into ways to contribute, 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.760 look into ways to if you have your own needs, 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.440 how you can meet those directly, if you or help 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.600 other people meet their needs directly through lots of different ways. 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:31.320 And for those who are in a point I know 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.320 people are filling a time crunch, because there is a 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:38.960 time crunch. Abortion is still legal and accessible. The home 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.680 abortion pill is FDA proved to be sent by mail, 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:44.520 so if you need to do that, do that. That 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.560 is still accessible and it's still around. And we do 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.280 see organizations that are coming through kind of like the 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:54.439 Jain Collective did on a better, bigger level, which I 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.200 love every bit of that. That's kind of that silver lining. 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:00.920 And again, yeah, things that we'd see such as birth control, 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:04.000 we are seeing things in play. Missouri and Louisiana has 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.440 decided to put in a clause in their trigger laws 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:10.880 that includes iud's being illegal, so that means someone who 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:16.520 has an IUD, which has become very effective, may be prosecuted. 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:19.720 As well as the fact that those who are going 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:22.000 through things like a topic pregnancy, which is when again 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.720 I think we talk about it later, the egg is 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:27.440 the fertilized egg is stuck in Neurophilippian two burst and 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.760 kills a person can kill a person damaged and severely. 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:33.480 This will be if you try to extract that, that'll 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.839 be considered abortion as well. So this is why these 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.760 laws are so important that we pay attention to it. Again, 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:43.040 that privacy clause. That's what they're coming after. And that 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:47.920 includes gay marriage, that includes consensual adult sex, that includes 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.600 so much more. And that's why this is so damn scary. 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:57.280 Yeah, and we'll leave it to the listener's imagination about 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:00.800 the methods that might be necessary when the democratic process 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:04.360 has failed. But one thing also will say is that 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:06.760 I love this episode that you're all about to hear, 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:11.800 but don't listen to it to determine how to self 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:15.080 manage abortions. Look elsewhere for information about how to self 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:19.240 manage abortions. Medicated abortions are readily available, at least at 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:23.080 the moment, and are substantially better than what is available 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.880 and what was available to the heroes of today's episode. 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.960 So what can people do? Like if people have if 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:32.280 people want to donate, what would you what would you suggest? 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.720 So I don't want to give you specific organizations because 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:39.920 it affects different people, different in different places. But one 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.240 of the things I would say is planned parenthood is 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.480 not necessarily where you should donate. Maybe start looking at 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:49.000 specific clinics and funds that you are appreciative of or 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:50.800 think that they can do a good job. Research who 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.600 you're donating to. Also, if you're in a safe state, 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:55.560 as we said, and I'm going to call this safe state, 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:57.000 I don't know if that's what they're called. I'm just 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:58.760 going to quote it, like in one of the states 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:02.640 where the government is allowing and talking about, Yeah, abortion, 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:06.160 it should be part of healthcare. Then maybe look to 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:08.520 the trigger states that we mentioned earlier and help donate 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.640 to those days because they are in deep danger as 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:15.000 I said before, about losing everything very quickly, very fast. 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:18.440 Yeah, And the people I've been talking to and asking 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.920 for advice about where to put your energy in terms 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:25.120 of organizations to support, have also suggested that abortion funds 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.720 are specifically the place to go. And then also one 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.319 other one that again my lawyer friend recommended, is called 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:34.480 the repro Legal Defense Fund, which is a fund that 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:38.160 supports people who are investigated, arrested, or prosecuted for self 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.320 managed abortion or for helping and their own or someone 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.720 else's pregnancy, and so that is a thing that legal 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:46.760 defense is going to have to become part of all 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:48.120 of this as well. Unfortunately. 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:51.040 Absolutely, And if you kind of want to know what 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:53.120 is impacted and how you can impact better, you can 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.960 also go to the National Network of Abortion Funds and 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:57.800 they kind of have a list of who is in 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:00.480 need of services and what type of services are news 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:02.720 for what funds, and that could give you a kind 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:04.840 of at least an audited sheet of who you're giving 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:05.760 to and what they're doing. 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:10.880 And here's the episode. Hello, and welcome to Cool People 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.480 Who Did Cool Stuff, the podcast that needs no introduction. 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:16.440 No, no, no, Margaret, it needs an introduction. 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:19.440 Okay, Welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff, the 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:23.960 podcast that apparently needs an introduction. Every week I'm going 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:25.800 to bring you a new story of cool people who 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:29.800 did cool stuff. Thus the title. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy. 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:32.320 And this week I have on Samantha McVay, who is 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.240 the host of the also stuff related podcast stuff Mom 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:37.960 Never Told You. Samantha, how are you doing good? 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.160 Thank you for having me on the show, and yay, 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:43.200 welcome to the fam and all the things. So excited 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.160 to have you as a part of our network family. 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:51.880 Yeah, I'm really excited. Okay, So I've also have Sophie 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:53.680 on the call. So Sophie's the producer. 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.400 How are you doing, Hi, Superheroes, Sophie over. 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.640 Here doing I'm doing Okay? 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:05.880 That is that is that is a theme of two 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.080 twenty one twenty. 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:09.440 What it is we're doing. 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.120 Time is not real. It does not. 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:15.560 Exist, especially since what we're recording will make no sense 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:17.160 to people who are listening to it twenty five years 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:17.480 from now. 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.160 Oh gosh, yeah, I hope so. 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:24.240 But so, Samantha, I'm wondering, how do you feel about 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:27.600 reproductive rights? Would you say that overall you're pro or 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.000 anti you deciding what happens with your body? 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:34.160 You know, as someone who does have a uterus and 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:37.240 feels the fact that I'm a pretty smart and capable woman, 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:40.280 that I should be allowed to have my choices, and 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:44.080 that being dictated by cis white men telling me that 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.920 they need control over my body because they're afraid of 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:49.720 the vagina in general and uterus and the power of 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.040 the uterus. I'm musa say I'm pro everything about it, 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.560 and let's go ahead and say nah, bra get out 0:15:56.560 --> 0:16:00.000 of it. Well, is not a long winded answer. 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:03.280 No, no, this is great. It would be a very 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:05.960 different in short podcast appear answer was wildly different from 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:06.400 that I have. 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.400 I was like, Margaret, I have this really great person 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.600 that I want to have on for this specific topic that. 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:20.400 It comes on, and it's like, oh, now you know 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.040 how I feel it used to be. Can I tell 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:27.920 you this. I grew up in a very conservative For 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:31.400 the listeners who are familiar with me, I grew up 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:36.680 in a very conservative town. My parents are white, I'm adopted, 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:42.320 and they're very conservative people who have always voted on moralities, 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:47.720 including anti choice lifestyle. And for the longest time, I 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.240 was told because I was adopted, I should be anti 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:53.600 choice or I wouldn't have existed. This whole like guilt 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:56.760 trip onto me about that, making it seem like I 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:00.200 was in the wrong for saying but wait. The the 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.040 biggest conversation is you're telling me that you really feel 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.439 like you can't trust me as an adult, as a person, 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.399 as an individual to make my own choices in life, 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:11.600 and that it needed to be dictated by a government. 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.199 But nothing else does. Okay, But it took me a 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:17.400 long time to get out of that headspin, because you know, 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:21.160 you want to acclimate and be a part of whatever 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.920 your society or community you're in. Give me a while 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.760 to figure out, Oh god, that's gross. What is happening, 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:28.920 you know, and what kind of control had it on there? 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.520 So honestly, if you'd asked me that twenty years ago, 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:34.280 we would have had a different conversation. 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.399 Okay, no, that I mean, that's fair and like it. 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:40.359 You know, there's a lot of indoctrination that we all 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:43.119 feel with them. I'm almost sort of lucky in that, 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:45.480 like I was always just like such one of the 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:48.000 bad kids that I was pretty young when like my 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:52.840 friends started having abortions. And I'm so grateful that they 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:56.600 had that opportunity because a lot of them were able 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.080 to like get out of the situations they were in, 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:04.160 you know, because they had that access. But well, today's 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.679 heroes have come to similar conclusions that we have about 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.719 being pro people deciding what to do with their own bodies. 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:15.200 And because okay, people are going to talk about fucking 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:17.080 cool and I'm going to be talking about direct action 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.640 abortion access, and in particular, I'm going to focus on 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:23.120 one crew of women out of Chicago, the Notorious Jane Collective. 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:29.880 Yes, oh, this is one of my favorites. Come on, 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:31.480 I'm ready, let's go. 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:34.960 And so I think actually the podcast that you're on, 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:36.960 I don't think you are the host of this particular episode, 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.720 but the podcast you run actually did an interview with 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:42.320 the founder of Jane, Heather Booth. I just want to 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:44.080 acknowledge that, and so it was fucking cool and I 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:45.760 listened to that while I was getting ready for this 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:49.000 one and before I start getting too deep into it. 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:50.879 So I'm going to talk about abortion, right and so 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:53.520 I'm going to be talking about how it is and 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.000 isn't a women's issue in the modern context. I want 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:59.120 to acknowledge upfront that abortion is not just a women's issue. 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:00.879 A plenty of people who are not women can get 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.760 pregnant and might not want to be whether that's some 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.520 trans men, some non binary people, and some intersex people 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:09.840 who can all get pregnant. And I will say that 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.600 one day it's as likely as not that some trans 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.120 woman is going to get pregnant. And there's this meme 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:17.080 floating around that I really like, is that what will 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:18.840 really drive the right wing into a rage is when 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:20.640 the first trans woman gets pregnant. It's when the first 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:25.800 trans woman chooses to have an abortion. But I also 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:28.400 will say that so it's not just a women's issue, 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.679 but it is also a women's issue as well, and 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:32.640 I don't want to cut that out of the conversation either. 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:34.800 And I spent a while trying to figure out to 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:36.240 phrase all this right because it's a kind of a 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:39.359 moving target to understand how we talk about this stuff. Yeah, 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.080 so I would say the history of the limitation of 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:45.320 abortion access is entirely entangled with the history of misogyny 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:49.399 and with controlling women's bodies and denying us agency. And 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:51.760 there's plenty of women who can't get pregnant, whether it's 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:55.520 because of age, surgeries, hormone shifts, the way we were born. 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:59.119 But something doesn't need to affect like every single woman 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:01.440 to be a woman's say, to be something that affects 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:05.200 all of us, because patriarchal society wanting to control women's 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:09.800 bodies doesn't stop with the women who can get pregnant, right, 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:13.040 They want to control everybody. So I guess what I 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.520 want to say to anyone's listening and just to kind 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:18.800 of provide the context that I'm coming from, is that 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.160 when I'm talking about abortion access, I'm trying to talk 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:24.280 about it from both of these angles at once, to 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.080 sort of intersecting axes of oppression is people with the 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:29.640 ability to give birth and people who are women, which 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:33.520 is very often an intersection, right, but not always. And 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:35.960 then of course we're talking about shit that happened like 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:38.439 fifty years ago, right, And so a lot of the 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:40.399 existing language about the people that we're going to be 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:44.680 talking about will be referring to people as women and 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:47.760 will be approaching it primarily from this lens of being 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:49.719 a women's issue, and I'm trying to, well, I'm going 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:51.720 to try and be more directly inclusive throughout. I'm not 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:54.919 trying to like cast judgment on these people who framed 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:56.720 it in the ways that they understood it is the 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:01.600 best way to frame it. So that's my disclaimer. They 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:03.640 spent more time on than like the rest. 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:07.160 Of the as it has to you have to though, Yeah. 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:10.240 Okay, so abortion in legality, right, Abortion has been a 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:14.920 contentious issue since forever, and sometimes it's about morality, Like 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:17.560