Speaker 1: M. Hey, what's scrambling my eggs? M Robert Evans. This
Speaker 1: is behind the bastards. That's my new introduction. Sophie is
Speaker 1: crawling under the desk, so overwhelmed with shame that she
Speaker 1: can no longer sit upright. Uh, but there's no taking
Speaker 1: it out, there's no editing it. I'm I'm sitting here
Speaker 1: in the studio with my guest, Lacey Mosley. Lacy, how
Speaker 1: are you doing? I'm doing good? Lacy. You are a comedian,
Speaker 1: an actress, also deeply embarrassed in a scam. Godess, no,
Speaker 1: I love them what scrambled in my age? Thank you? No,
Speaker 1: they would not know, they would not, but we lost
Speaker 1: that demographic, so lazy, you are a scam got Us
Speaker 1: has already stated you were on our episode about Karl
Speaker 1: may Sh Hitler's favorite author, scammer. Today we're talking about
Speaker 1: another scammer, and in fact, we're talking about a scammer
Speaker 1: who fooled me for a little while. So yeah, this
Speaker 1: is gonna good. So he's good. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you i'd say he's good, But like you know, everybody's
Speaker 1: got something they're vulnerable to from a scammer. And I'm
Speaker 1: gonna find out what your vulnerability. Yeah, I've got a
Speaker 1: vulnerability to the scam. This guy was popping all right.
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of John McAfee. Um, if it's
Speaker 1: involved with the computer program virus virus, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: This is the guy who invented that. He's quite a character,
Speaker 1: and that's what we're talking about today. John David McAfee
Speaker 1: was born in the Forest of Dean in Gloucestershire, England,
Speaker 1: on September eighteenth. His father was an American soldier and
Speaker 1: his mother was a British person. He was raised in Salem, Virginia,
Speaker 1: although other sources say Roanoke. Like most things about John McAfee,
Speaker 1: the story is a little different depending on who you
Speaker 1: hear it from, which is kind of one of the
Speaker 1: first signs that somebody's a little bit of a scammer. Now.
Speaker 1: McAfee's mom worked as a bank teller. His dad was
Speaker 1: a road surveyor and a drunk. McAfee says he was
Speaker 1: a very unhappy man and who beat both John and
Speaker 1: his mother. He shot himself and John was fifteen. Uh
Speaker 1: and McAfee later told Wired in an interview, quote, every
Speaker 1: day I wake up with him. Every relationship I have.
Speaker 1: He's by my side every mistrust. He is the negotiator
Speaker 1: of that mistrust. So my life is fucked. So starting
Speaker 1: this on a dark note, but also a very juicy backstory,
Speaker 1: like a scammer needs like something to feign vulnerability with everybody.
Speaker 1: That story. He's like, yeah, I stold at your wallet,
Speaker 1: but really, my dad stole his dad, his whole life.
Speaker 1: I love it. Wait to his dad have an accent?
Speaker 1: Do we know? No? I mean his dad was an American.
Speaker 1: I'm guessing his mom did. It would have been exact.
Speaker 1: He has kind of a weird voice, but I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say he sounds he doesn't. She doesn't sound British. No, alright,
Speaker 1: scam level. Oh yeah, I trust anything British people say. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: It's a superpower they have. It's why they ruled the
Speaker 1: world briefly. Yeah, exactly. That's why when you become rich,
Speaker 1: you become British. That's why Madonna is British now exactly.
Speaker 1: I as soon too will be British one day. I'll
Speaker 1: come on this podcast and all of enough money tod
Speaker 1: like this, but continue. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, that's a
Speaker 1: that's a great that's a great Madonna pretending to be
Speaker 1: British accent, by the way, because it doesn't sound British
Speaker 1: or fake British, it sounds Madonna fake British exactly. Specific
Speaker 1: shout out to a number one scammer. John enrolled in
Speaker 1: Rowan Oak College. He sold magazine scriptions door to door
Speaker 1: in order to make money for Booze, which, like his dad,
Speaker 1: he drank way too much of uh. In interviews, McAfee
Speaker 1: claims he made a fortune in the subscriptions business by
Speaker 1: telling people who answered the door that they'd won a
Speaker 1: free subscription, they just had to pay a shipping and
Speaker 1: handling figure. Yes, that's the oldest late night TV scam ever.
Speaker 1: That's how I got my ice potty. It was free,
Speaker 1: but I just paid and shipping and handling ice potty.
Speaker 1: You know, it's not a potty like for peeing, like
Speaker 1: like you know how it's like a bowl. It's probably
Speaker 1: about the name, but it's a bowl and then the
Speaker 1: ice is made on the sides, and then you cracked
Speaker 1: the bowl and you got a bowl of ice. I've
Speaker 1: never heard you've never seen this info martial. Now, can
Speaker 1: you sell me one of these fantastic products? Lay listen,
Speaker 1: ice without the limitations of plastic containers. Are you entertaining?
Speaker 1: I spoke it for your one? Are you sick? I
Speaker 1: spoke it for your head? Are you ice? Helmet? But yeah,
Speaker 1: that's how they get you, y'all. And that's door to
Speaker 1: door too, so there's no way to confirm or deny.
Speaker 1: Shout out to him. Always door to door. People like
Speaker 1: are normally scammers. That's like the first startup scam for
Speaker 1: most scammers. And you would think that maybe we'd have gene. Yes,
Speaker 1: Genie sounds sexier than past. I get that ice. Genie
Speaker 1: is free. You just gotta send a little money. So
Speaker 1: John got his bachelor's degree in nineteen sixty seven. He
Speaker 1: started studying for a PhD in mathematics at Northeast Louisiana
Speaker 1: State College, but he got expelled for sleeping with and
Speaker 1: then marrying an undergraduate student he was supposed to be managing.
Speaker 1: He bounced around so of coding jobs, but his career
Speaker 1: was interrupted when he got busted buying pot. He managed
Speaker 1: to avoid any sort of conviction, probably because he was
Speaker 1: a white guy. Uh get busted by pot? I mean
Speaker 1: who was getting busted by? And this is nineteen six,
Speaker 1: the sixties, so maybe it happened more. I feel like
Speaker 1: that's that's even more cause for it not to be
Speaker 1: how you got bust. We both come from Dallas. I
Speaker 1: know people who got busted buying weed. Oh yeah, this
Speaker 1: feels like the laziest way to go to jail is
Speaker 1: like it has to feel dumb. He wasn't just going
Speaker 1: around everywhere like free love freeweed, I think in some places.
Speaker 1: But if he was in Louisiana, like like an undercover cop,
Speaker 1: try to something, Hi, sir, would you like to partake it?
Speaker 1: Would you like some? Mary? Joanna, Mary, Mary Anne Jane.
Speaker 1: Do you like puffing on reverse? Meet me in this alley? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Maybe he was just shitty at buying pot, But anyway,
Speaker 1: he got out of the charges. In the nineteen sixty nine,
Speaker 1: the Missouri Pacific Railroad Company hired him to basically prog
Speaker 1: him their IBM based computers to schedule trains. Now, McAfee
Speaker 1: didn't know how to do any of this. He wrote
Speaker 1: out a fake resume and he got the job because
Speaker 1: there was no internet back then. There's no way to
Speaker 1: check on the ship, like, yeah, shout out to him.
Speaker 1: Here's wired quote. After six months, McAfee's system began to
Speaker 1: turn out optimize train routing patterns. One morning, he decided
Speaker 1: to experiment with another psychedelic called d MT. He did
Speaker 1: a line, felt nothing, and decided to snort a whole
Speaker 1: bag of the orange Is powder. Within an hour, my
Speaker 1: mind was shattered. McAfee says part of him still believes
Speaker 1: he's still on that trip, that everything since has been
Speaker 1: one giant hallucination, and that one day he'll snap out
Speaker 1: of it and find himself back on his couch and St.
Speaker 1: Louis listening to Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon.
Speaker 1: What have you ever had a drug trip like that? No,
Speaker 1: because I'm just I'm scared to go that deep. But
Speaker 1: I will say that I have done acid, and you
Speaker 1: could definitely go to work our acid. You know, everyone's
Speaker 1: made ascid out to be so crazy. I know someone
Speaker 1: who micro does his acid every single day and the
Speaker 1: happiest person I've ever met. And apparently you can do
Speaker 1: your job on acid. I've done a lot of different
Speaker 1: jobs on acid. One episode of this podcast was recorded
Speaker 1: on acid, but I won't tell. Everyone has to get
Speaker 1: but he's got to guess which episode. If you guess correct,
Speaker 1: we will send you I can I can't send you,
Speaker 1: I will send you behind the bastard swag. All you
Speaker 1: have to send me is a hundred dollars for shipping
Speaker 1: and handling. I'll send you some acid. All you've got
Speaker 1: to send me is I didn't even notice she doing
Speaker 1: a scam there, Lacy. That was good, like the finesse.
Speaker 1: You gotta have the finesse ready made. That so smooth.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so you can do shot on assets. Are
Speaker 1: you telling me that this guy scammed his way into
Speaker 1: this job that he had no routing trains? So also,
Speaker 1: can we just realize how with the gravity of train
Speaker 1: routing and they didn't even ask, They didn't even ask
Speaker 1: my man is to like route one train, you know
Speaker 1: in a training process that we're like, here, can you
Speaker 1: show us how you route the train? Like, so, trains
Speaker 1: could have been crashing, people could have just been dying
Speaker 1: left around. People just trusted anything printed on paperback then
Speaker 1: was like why OK, and it's embossed, all right? What's this?
Speaker 1: He vet? Oh the job is yours. The job is yours, sir.
Speaker 1: Let's put some lives in this man's hands right away.
Speaker 1: Oh god? But then he got good at it? Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean maybe it's just not that hard. I've never
Speaker 1: routed trains. Neither have I yea, but I can see
Speaker 1: how Like there's that guy Doc Ellis who pitched a
Speaker 1: no hitter in baseball on LSD, Like, I can see
Speaker 1: how the way that acid works, how you could you
Speaker 1: could do that sort of job. Well, for sure, because
Speaker 1: you're like, it's about focus and stuff. I remember just
Speaker 1: staring at some trees for yeah, And I understand what
Speaker 1: he's saying about, like having a trip that goes so
Speaker 1: far that you're never quite sure that you've come back
Speaker 1: from it. Because I thought there's there's a couple of those.
Speaker 1: I still wake up in the middle of the night
Speaker 1: sometimes pretty sure. I'm back in Denton at in the
Speaker 1: morning twelve years ago. That is a specific I did
Speaker 1: a lot of drugs in den back in the day. Right,
Speaker 1: Is this a good place in dn Are you like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm back in that dinner is very good place. And
Speaker 1: didn't This is very true, there's no good Sorry didn't
Speaker 1: Texas you know your trash. We all know some solid
Speaker 1: DFW area. I'm back at the water Burger. I can
Speaker 1: tell it's didn't because there's that smell in the air. Right,
Speaker 1: drugs in the Bama so I could think I'm back
Speaker 1: somewhere nice. Yeah, that would have been That would have
Speaker 1: been a wiser choice. So drugs did as drugs do,
Speaker 1: and McAfee accelerated into a massive, uncontrollable addiction. He started
Speaker 1: doing cocaine every morning, drinking a bottle of hard liquor
Speaker 1: every day. His marriage fell apart. You know all the
Speaker 1: things that you expect from a serious substance abuse problem.
Speaker 1: And I don't think he's lying about this. Just based
Speaker 1: on what comes next, I'm pretty sure this part's true.
Speaker 1: In the nineteen seventies, he moved to Silicon Valley, where
Speaker 1: drugs come from, and of course his problems got even worse.
Speaker 1: But still he was able to maintain a sometimes unstable
Speaker 1: but generally profitable career as a programmer. By nineteen eighty three,
Speaker 1: he was director of engineering at a company called Omex.
Speaker 1: He was thirty eight years a selling cocaine to his
Speaker 1: employees and railing lines off his desk every morning in
Speaker 1: Santa clar In. This might have made him one of
Speaker 1: the less wild middle managers in the country. Look, I
Speaker 1: watched woof of wall ship and yeah, that ship is problematic.
Speaker 1: And I'm glad work places are safe, but by O, boy,
Speaker 1: would I have loved to just have one day at
Speaker 1: a job where everybody was just doing cocaine in the bathroom. Alright,
Speaker 1: is everyone here for the morning meeting gregor? Okay? And
Speaker 1: that's part of why I hate those guys, because they
Speaker 1: had to like funk with people's money, and they had
Speaker 1: to like I'm gonna guess most of them were rape two.
Speaker 1: If we could have all just made it be a
Speaker 1: thing where everybody was just always doing drugs at work,
Speaker 1: what a better economy that would be. The FBI was
Speaker 1: just railing lines of you know, PCP or something and
Speaker 1: then going out in the morning, Like yeah, but so
Speaker 1: much energy, so much energy, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Not much I could get done every day the shutdown.
Speaker 1: They wouldn't have even noticed, Like it's been thirty days.
Speaker 1: I haven't slept in thirty days. Oh, I haven't gotten paid.
Speaker 1: I got a check on this. I need to buy more. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: one of the side of extra drugs is poor judgment.
Speaker 1: So that is a big part of the John McAfee story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so he describes himself at this time as constantly terrified
Speaker 1: about running out of drugs. He contemplated suicide on the
Speaker 1: daily basis, and eventually misery drove him to a therapist
Speaker 1: who sent him to Alcoholics anonymous, And that seemed to
Speaker 1: work really well for John McAfee for a little while.
Speaker 1: He sobered up, he claims forever. But as you'll learn,
Speaker 1: what John claim should not be taken at face value
Speaker 1: at any rate. He told Wired, his first A meeting
Speaker 1: is what really started his life. Now sober McAfee swared
Speaker 1: to unthinkable heights. He got a job designing software for
Speaker 1: Lockheed Martin UH and it was there that he came
Speaker 1: across his very first computer virus, something called the Pakistani
Speaker 1: brain ter virus is good weird names. Here's a wonderful
Speaker 1: Fast Company article on John written by a guy named
Speaker 1: Jeff wise quote. Seeking an opportunity, he picked the virus
Speaker 1: apart and figured out how to defeat it. Then he
Speaker 1: built a program called virus Scan that could detect him
Speaker 1: disarm multiple threats automatically. The program, the first commercial antivirus software,
Speaker 1: was an impressive achievement, but it's what he did next
Speaker 1: that was true genius. See John didn't start selling his
Speaker 1: anti virus instantly. He started giving it away. He just
Speaker 1: put it out there for any company to use. And
Speaker 1: this was an early enough era that nobody else was
Speaker 1: doing this, So all these companies that had just now
Speaker 1: learned and like viruses were a problem. Some ceo wakes
Speaker 1: up in the morning season news store and he's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, we have ten thousand computers. He learns
Speaker 1: there's a free program. So all these companies start downloading
Speaker 1: John's free program to give him a free sample. You
Speaker 1: get him that he's doing the same thing the drug
Speaker 1: dealers do. Yeah, he's also doing the same thing he
Speaker 1: did with him Damn magazine. Yeah, you get a free subscription.
Speaker 1: Yeah it's free. It's free, buddy. Yeah. In no time,
Speaker 1: he had like thirty million people like using his software,
Speaker 1: and within a couple of years, half of the fortune
Speaker 1: five hundred companies used McAfee any virus software. So we
Speaker 1: started McAfee Associates out of his small home in Santa Clara,
Speaker 1: and he eventually started offering licenses to these companies, and
Speaker 1: because they were big companies, they wanted the security of
Speaker 1: knowing this isn't just a free product. We're like paying
Speaker 1: a company to maintain our stuff and make sure. So
Speaker 1: he kind of went seamlessly from free product to making
Speaker 1: millions and millions of dollars. He became the world's biggest
Speaker 1: evangelist of the apocalyptic dangers of computer viruses. He started
Speaker 1: showing up on television invented is that, No, this is
Speaker 1: this is prior to that. We're talking like the late eighties. Yeah, yea,
Speaker 1: so he would he would just show up. But he
Speaker 1: was one of the first guys showing up on TV
Speaker 1: and like daily news programs talking about viruses. Yeah, scaring
Speaker 1: us about this virus is going to do this. It's
Speaker 1: gonna do this. And in nineteen eighty nine he wrote
Speaker 1: a book called Computer Viruses, Worms, data diddlers, killer programs
Speaker 1: and other Threats to your system. There's a lot of threats.
Speaker 1: That's a lot of threats. All this did well enough
Speaker 1: that by nineteen ninety he was making five million dollars
Speaker 1: a year off of his anti virus business. Pretty great.
Speaker 1: My nineteen one, Far away from John McAfee in the
Speaker 1: fabled land of Australia, another anti virus expert named Roger
Speaker 1: Reordan discovered a unique new virus coded to deliver a
Speaker 1: debilitating injection of code. On March six, Code that would
Speaker 1: wipe out all infected computers discovered or create. No, he discovered.
Speaker 1: I mean he he was a researcher. I haven't. I
Speaker 1: haven't run in any Yeah, like he's it was his
Speaker 1: job was looking at stuff. This guy is not the scammers,
Speaker 1: the scams coming in us. Maybe he was. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about that. I'm also suspect of him,
Speaker 1: But go ahead, because he's the Australian lazy. Listen, you
Speaker 1: never know what's going on down under exactly because it's
Speaker 1: down under, so you can't see it. That's what makes
Speaker 1: them so shady. Anyway. Yeah, uh so Reordan named this
Speaker 1: virus he had found Michael Angelo, not because it was
Speaker 1: a work of art, but because March sixth was Michael
Speaker 1: Angelo's birthday. Now, the Michael Angelo virus was not actually
Speaker 1: a big deal. It had a bunch of flaws that
Speaker 1: made it not super dangerous. It hadn't been coded well,
Speaker 1: so left to its own devices, it would have made
Speaker 1: almost no impact. But John McAfee read about this virus
Speaker 1: and he knew that there his potential in just its name.
Speaker 1: Because Michael Angelo. That's like a Hollywood virus. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a very sexy virus. Yeah, you can imagine someone
Speaker 1: explaining that virus to like Bruce Willis and then having
Speaker 1: to go punch people to stop it. Right, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: exactly what it is. It's just Bruce Bis or Liam
Speaker 1: Neeson nick chopping people neck chopping for a whole movie. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you got a solid ninety minutes out of that five
Speaker 1: or six secrets. Probably never shoots anyone, Okay, he beats
Speaker 1: everyone's ass individually. No, he's guns aren't allowed in his
Speaker 1: hands because you know, I had half of like a
Speaker 1: Chuck Norris style joke there, and I just lost it.
Speaker 1: Lazy damn. That's a solid Chuck Norris style joke, though,
Speaker 1: Yeah you could. You've got the pieces. Yeah, someone ad
Speaker 1: put it together tweet it to us. Yeah. So John
Speaker 1: McAfee started claiming, based on nothing really, that the Michael
Speaker 1: Angelo virus was going to disabled five million PCs when
Speaker 1: it started, and that was a lot of in the nineties, right, right.
Speaker 1: Isn't this like the era where the computers look like
Speaker 1: a ghosts, where like it was like green, Yeah, everything's
Speaker 1: green and there's like giant the monitors. Way more than
Speaker 1: our television student told us any thing about virus expecting
Speaker 1: but you're gonna tell me. Patrick Swayzy and the Ghost
Speaker 1: we really go come back and active ship hand in
Speaker 1: it could strangle you from your monitor. Whoopie Goldberg said,
Speaker 1: Win Dangerer. This was right around the time that Whoopi
Speaker 1: Goldberg started that movie next to a fake Tyrannosaurus where
Speaker 1: they were both cops. Great moment in pop culture history.
Speaker 1: A lot of people forget that movie, but they shouldn't.
Speaker 1: It was called Teddy Rex and it was amazing. Kidding, No,
Speaker 1: it's a real movie. It's a real movie. It was
Speaker 1: somewhere sometime in the nice anyway. Yeah, as you just said, uh,
Speaker 1: this was in the early nineties. Nobody knew anything about
Speaker 1: computers or viruses and stuff, so everyone just kind of
Speaker 1: like took McAfee's word for this. He was on TV.
Speaker 1: He was on TV. He was like the nation's number
Speaker 1: one viru antivirus expert. That's what people had called him,
Speaker 1: just because nobody else was talking talking about it, because
Speaker 1: he was the only he was the only one. Imagine
Speaker 1: getting to just be the expert by deepa because nobody else.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's amazing. That's the best way to make
Speaker 1: a shipload of money. Yeah, and yeah he uh, he
Speaker 1: nailed it right place at the right time. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: read a quote from a two thousand twelve article from
Speaker 1: the website Naked Security. Thousands of PCs could crash by Friday,
Speaker 1: screamed USA Today. Deadly virus set to wreak havoc tomorrow
Speaker 1: was a headline in the Washington Post. Meanwhile, the Los
Speaker 1: Angeles Times declared painted scary. So this is how like
Speaker 1: everybody's covering this thing. Like John McAfee talks up the
Speaker 1: Michaelangelo virus and then everybody's freaking out about how it's
Speaker 1: going to disable all these computers and crash the economy.
Speaker 1: CNN sent a film crew to McAfee's offices because they
Speaker 1: wanted to like them us. They were hoping that like
Speaker 1: they'd be getting thousands of calls and everybody running around
Speaker 1: typing and yeah, I hope that McAfee hired crisis actors. Uh,
Speaker 1: he actually kind of did. Oh, not quite that, but
Speaker 1: he released a special anti virus program built solely around
Speaker 1: Michael Angelo. But since it was actually really easy to
Speaker 1: scan for this virus, he made the program scan a
Speaker 1: bunch of unnecessary files, so it took like ten times
Speaker 1: longer than it needed to because he wanted them to
Speaker 1: feel like it was Yeah, maybe I got it's taken
Speaker 1: so long. So McAfee had initially claimed, as I said,
Speaker 1: that the virus had hit as many as five million
Speaker 1: machines um. The estimate went down to one million by
Speaker 1: like March second Nino, and then a couple of days
Speaker 1: later it was any McAfee said it was anywhere between
Speaker 1: fifty thousand and five million computers. So he starts revising
Speaker 1: down the estimates. People by his product. Yeah, exactly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a it's it was a grift um. And you know,
Speaker 1: when Michael Angelo actually activated, there was only very few computers,
Speaker 1: like like I think a few hundred, maybe a couple
Speaker 1: of thousand, but like not a significant number got hit.
Speaker 1: It didn't really do any damage. But that didn't actually
Speaker 1: matter because John McAfee had succeeded in drumming up enough
Speaker 1: fear about viruses that every major company had to have
Speaker 1: anti virus software on its computers, and they all wound
Speaker 1: up using McAfee because he was the guy talking about
Speaker 1: this ship. In October of nineteen two, his company went
Speaker 1: public and raised forty two million dollars in its first round.
Speaker 1: By nine, McAfee's personality and showmanship had made the adults
Speaker 1: in the room decide to edge him out of his
Speaker 1: own company. He left, cashed out his stock and wound
Speaker 1: up with around a hundred million dollars. Personality and showmanship,
Speaker 1: so he was coked up and drunk acting a fool. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there are apparently sex contests in the office and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. Sex contest, people sucking on desks, like fucking
Speaker 1: on desk. I hope you can imagine me a soldier
Speaker 1: boy right now. Like contests? What that's how you know?
Speaker 1: You really while in network? Like yeah, yeah, if there's
Speaker 1: a sex contest at your anti virus company, your anti
Speaker 1: virus company, irony of that, Like a lot of people
Speaker 1: got clamity at the anti virus company. Anti virus company.
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to anti I was company. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it was some sex contest. I'm kidding, I don't virus.
Speaker 1: But it was clearly one of those things where the
Speaker 1: company was when it was suddenly when it was worth
Speaker 1: a huge amount of money, and like a lot of
Speaker 1: companies relying on it. The adults that God brought in
Speaker 1: were like this guy is a fucking nut. We can't
Speaker 1: we can't have them running this business. Let's when other
Speaker 1: people have money involved, and it's like, Okay, come on back,
Speaker 1: little you're crazy, you're a huge lie, you're a gigantic problem.
Speaker 1: You're not even doing miles. You're gonna commit felonies. We
Speaker 1: can't have you around here like you're doing kinds of
Speaker 1: crimes where other people got to go to jail with you.
Speaker 1: You know, you do a Trump level cross where it's
Speaker 1: like a whole consortition with people who got to go
Speaker 1: to jail at the same time. Yeah, So McAfee's out.
Speaker 1: He was forty seven years old with you know, we're
Speaker 1: effectively unlimited resources. And so he immediately spent twenty five
Speaker 1: million dollars buying a two and eighty acre compound in
Speaker 1: Colorado and a ten thousand square foot mansion. So McAfee's
Speaker 1: out of his company, he's rich, and he has beginning
Speaker 1: the next stage of his life. And we're gonna get
Speaker 1: into what comes next. But first, lazy, are you a
Speaker 1: fan of products? Oh, you don't, I love products? You
Speaker 1: like a service or two over now? And then absolutely,
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of both. And we've got a
Speaker 1: great list of products and or services for the ears.
Speaker 1: The people listen, and we're back. Uh, we just got
Speaker 1: into some products and services. And now we are talking
Speaker 1: again about John McAfee at this part in our story,
Speaker 1: has bought himself a gigantic mansion, uh and is now
Speaker 1: getting really into yoga. Um. So that's the thing he
Speaker 1: does first after he after he gets out of this
Speaker 1: you know company he built, as he buys a mansion
Speaker 1: in Colorado and a couple hundred acres of land, and
Speaker 1: he starts at yoga retreat. Okay, how does cocaine and
Speaker 1: yoga work together? He's not doing cokey, He's sober at
Speaker 1: this and that may be true at this point in
Speaker 1: the story. He may actually still be sober. I'm inclined
Speaker 1: to believe it. Yeah, because yoga doesn't seem like relaxing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, cocaine, al right, guys, not mistake alright, guys,
Speaker 1: we're getting Yeah, I feel like that's too intense. Okay, cool,
Speaker 1: I'll believe you. McAfee. Yeh. He got really into yoga,
Speaker 1: starts doing yoga retreats, and he also launches an app
Speaker 1: called pow Wow, which was a very early chat client.
Speaker 1: When I read an article about it in the Register.
Speaker 1: It was described as Native American themed. I don't know
Speaker 1: what the hell does that mean, like the Radskins. That's
Speaker 1: not a good idea. I don't know. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: if it was offensively done or not. The probably it
Speaker 1: was the nineties, So yeah, almost about Native American themes.
Speaker 1: Sounds like it's not offensive. Something really bad. It was
Speaker 1: African American themes. Yeah, I'll get it right, chicken watermelon
Speaker 1: Like I'm black? Guys, did I say that I'm black?
Speaker 1: I can say that. Yeah, that doesn't sound good. That
Speaker 1: sounds bad, especially since John McAfee is a guy with
Speaker 1: very prominent tribal tattoos on both of his own Is
Speaker 1: he native? A man can know he is? He is
Speaker 1: as white a man as it gets. His last names
Speaker 1: McAfee a tribe. That it was a cute out of
Speaker 1: water buffalo. Si, now I'm going to help. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: doesn't sound good. So he has an app. He has
Speaker 1: an app. Some people say that it was ahead of
Speaker 1: its time. It was like a chat client like aim.
Speaker 1: You know, if those of you who are old enough
Speaker 1: to have used all instant Messenger or like skype Chat
Speaker 1: or whatever. But before anyone else was doing a chat client. Um.
Speaker 1: It didn't clearly went out and dominate the market, but
Speaker 1: he was able to sell the venture for like seventeen
Speaker 1: million dollars before Aim and Skype you came into it,
Speaker 1: so he made more money. He did good, But he
Speaker 1: decided this was all of the business he wanted to
Speaker 1: be into for the rest of his life. After selling
Speaker 1: Pow Wow, he vowed to devote himself to quote the
Speaker 1: opposite of the business world. What are you both laughing at? Um?
Speaker 1: Sophie just sent me a picture of John McAfee. Well good,
Speaker 1: he looks like if Richard Branson did more drugs than
Speaker 1: Richard Branson does. Yeah, like if Richard Branson was in
Speaker 1: a motorcycle gang and then for some reason was stranded
Speaker 1: on the island and lost a bunch of weight. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So of pictures of John McAfee, he's shirtless, and in
Speaker 1: fift of those pictures he's armed. He has a tie
Speaker 1: on in this where are we going? And it will
Speaker 1: often be shirtless with a gun strapped around his chest. O. God,
Speaker 1: John McAfee, all right, he's not that man yet right now.
Speaker 1: He's the recent he's yoga, he's a Native American. He's
Speaker 1: just decided he's tired of business. He wants to be
Speaker 1: into the opposite of the business world for the rest
Speaker 1: of his life. So he starts teaching yoga, and he
Speaker 1: wrote like four books on yoga, which I haven't been
Speaker 1: able to read yet. I read some reviews of them,
Speaker 1: and they seem like they were pretty normal for the
Speaker 1: most part, if you're like into that kind of stuff
Speaker 1: for books from a yoga A ton of white dudes
Speaker 1: have written yoga book that's true, and I don't buy them. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying i'd buy them, but like
Speaker 1: none of the reviews are like he's talking about fucking
Speaker 1: aliens or anything. Like the people who buy it like
Speaker 1: they're in the they want that. Yeah, apparently one of
Speaker 1: them does talk about time travel, telepathy, and levitation. So
Speaker 1: it is possible that John McAfee believes or believed at
Speaker 1: one point that he could read minds. If I had
Speaker 1: that much money, I would think I could. Why not, Sure,
Speaker 1: I can see that leading you into some wild places,
Speaker 1: which that's what the story is about. So that kind
Speaker 1: of thing spiraled until the compound had turned into like
Speaker 1: a really active yogur retreat, and John McAfee decided that
Speaker 1: that was too much work, so he kind of pieced
Speaker 1: the funk out. So in August two thousand two, on
Speaker 1: a flight to Kathman do John McAfee read an article
Speaker 1: about a device called a trike. Now, trikes are basically
Speaker 1: motorcycles attached to small planes. They can travel it around
Speaker 1: a hundred miles an hour and zip along at just
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty feet above the ground. McAfee was enchanted
Speaker 1: by this idea. He started going out to New Mexico
Speaker 1: learning how to fly by jaunting from airport to airport.
Speaker 1: And this is like his new rich man hobby that
Speaker 1: he fucking falls in love this, so like, fuck, yo,
Speaker 1: a fun Colorado, I'm gonna I'm gonna fly around in
Speaker 1: these weird little motorcycle planes. Yeah. So in two thousand
Speaker 1: and three he bought a tricked out cheap and he
Speaker 1: and his girlfriend, who was like in her mid twenties
Speaker 1: at this point, and he's like fifties. He was like
Speaker 1: late forties. Ok. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's not like criminal,
Speaker 1: but it's like kind of what you'd expect from a
Speaker 1: forty seven year old guy with a hundred million dollars
Speaker 1: you're going to you're gonna start dating four year old? Yeah, whatever,
Speaker 1: you're doing what a million other guys who got rich
Speaker 1: of done. Um. Yeah. So he and his girlfriends start
Speaker 1: like driving around in a jeep looking for beautiful landmarks
Speaker 1: in the desert to build rudimentary airports on. They decided,
Speaker 1: like the real problem with these strikes is that you
Speaker 1: had to have air strips to land in, so like
Speaker 1: you couldn't really go anywhere that pretty because they didn't
Speaker 1: have like crazy range, so you just have to fly
Speaker 1: from one town's airport to the next. Nobody wants to
Speaker 1: do that. So they started like finding all these beauties.
Speaker 1: Want the black plane there. No, he wanted to like
Speaker 1: fly around canyons in the middle of the high desert
Speaker 1: and stuff. So he like made all these airstrips in
Speaker 1: the middle of the desert. He bought hundreds of acres
Speaker 1: of land and made a bunch of like a network
Speaker 1: of airstrips, and like the idea was to turn arrow Trekking,
Speaker 1: which he is, like the name he coined for the sport,
Speaker 1: into like a badass extreme sport where people would have
Speaker 1: adventures in like the wild desert, flying from these isolated
Speaker 1: little airstrip to airstrip and like this network, he don't
Speaker 1: made that possible. So when he talked to the Wall
Speaker 1: Street Journal, McAfee explained, my personality is such that I
Speaker 1: can't do something halfway, which you know that's true. He
Speaker 1: follows through. Uh. In two thousand four, John McAfee founded
Speaker 1: The Sky Gypsy's who basically served why is he always
Speaker 1: uses some problematic terminology? Mercy had the Native American app
Speaker 1: not at the sky Jersey like what el does he
Speaker 1: go come out with? Okay, have like the inWORD boat,
Speaker 1: like what is happening? Yeah? I mean he doesn't include
Speaker 1: groups of people into these sales. No, don't point at
Speaker 1: me like that. This this story Lacy ends with both
Speaker 1: a boat and racism, but not quite that way. I
Speaker 1: have not read this guy's I have no idea what's happening.
Speaker 1: I'm so upset that I'm guessing. I guess because my
Speaker 1: scammera brain. I understand. Yeah, but I will say, shout
Speaker 1: out to the gold digger. I'm not going to gonna
Speaker 1: call her a gold digger. Maybe she wasn't golled digger,
Speaker 1: but I don't give I don't get super hot for
Speaker 1: like old dudes. But if they got money, you sexy now.
Speaker 1: But she's out here riding around in the desert with
Speaker 1: this phone normally just got a nice dinners and they
Speaker 1: take you on vacation. Like she wasn't really loved him.
Speaker 1: I think she yeah, And it seems like she was
Speaker 1: having a like they seem to have had like a
Speaker 1: good time for a while. It seems like it was
Speaker 1: one of those things where she was like, Yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: go have adventures in the desert for for you. That
Speaker 1: sounds great. I feel like I would come update. That's
Speaker 1: sound like some Scott Peterson type don't come back from
Speaker 1: those no thanks, And a couple of people do come
Speaker 1: up dead on the John okay, but not her, not her. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The sky Gypsies were all Arrow trekkers too. They were
Speaker 1: a mix of other rich people McAfee liked and random
Speaker 1: strangers he plucked out of obscurity and gave a role
Speaker 1: in his weird flying club. He bought an enormous house
Speaker 1: with several hangars in rural New met to Go and
Speaker 1: filled it with vintage automobiles he and his friends could
Speaker 1: off road in. Uh. The sky Gypseys grew to two
Speaker 1: hundred members, each playing between five hundred and two hundred
Speaker 1: and seventy thousand dollars a year for the right to
Speaker 1: hang out with John and fly baby plane. So like
Speaker 1: some of them were like random people would read about
Speaker 1: him and like travel to his compound, and especially if
Speaker 1: they were a young woman, he'd be like, sure, we'll
Speaker 1: just train you how to fly and it's free. And
Speaker 1: then some of them were like his millionaire friends, where
Speaker 1: you know, they'd pay a shipload of money. But so
Speaker 1: this was like the fire festival but would like bike planes. Well,
Speaker 1: but they actually did it years. Yeah, yeah, Like it
Speaker 1: wasn't like it was a real thing. Like they built
Speaker 1: this network of run and runways and they flew around
Speaker 1: round for years. So like it's not a total skin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not a skin yeah. Um. And it's like it's
Speaker 1: one of those things he was charging them because there's
Speaker 1: upkeep on the runways, which I'm sure there is. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: So here's how the Wall Street Journal described John McAfee's
Speaker 1: life at this time. Quote from May through October, when
Speaker 1: winds and temperatures are most favorable, as many as a
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty pilots in their aircraft des send on Roado,
Speaker 1: which is where his compound was, and other airports, and
Speaker 1: stay for weeks at a time. At night, Mr McAfee
Speaker 1: and his compadres, some of whom are retired engineers, physicians,
Speaker 1: and fellow multimillionaires, often gathered before the large television set
Speaker 1: on his villa's patio to watch a selection of the
Speaker 1: six thousand DVDs in his personal library. One night, a
Speaker 1: group of gypsies, including Mr McAfee, decided they wanted tattoos.
Speaker 1: They drove a hundred sixty miles to a Seedee parlor
Speaker 1: and festoon themselves with tattoos of the ornate Celtic wing
Speaker 1: the sky Gypsy's adopted as their logo. The group's quirky
Speaker 1: website describes Mr McAfee and his twenty seven year old
Speaker 1: girlfriend as John and Jin, two derelicts who didn't lose
Speaker 1: their last names, but have never divulged them. We don't
Speaker 1: have a clue about them, it adds, So that's how
Speaker 1: all this has been built. At the time, it's fun,
Speaker 1: it's carefree, which is all sound like sobriety. It sounds
Speaker 1: like what a guy who loves being wasted and then
Speaker 1: knows he can't do that anymore because they'll kill himself.
Speaker 1: But has unlimited money does instead of drugs. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna just gonna spend all day flying in
Speaker 1: planes as fast as I can, Yeah, to get that thrill,
Speaker 1: and like John and Gin, keep a bunch of people
Speaker 1: around me. So I yeah, okay. You know, if you're
Speaker 1: the kind of person who has a huge drug problem,
Speaker 1: you're always that kind of person. You just got to
Speaker 1: find something to throw yourself into. And that's and this
Speaker 1: is I mean, this is healthier than cocaine. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: far it's whatever. You know, he's not a monster yet,
Speaker 1: He's just not you know what. This is just weird,
Speaker 1: but it's like rich people weird. So far, this is
Speaker 1: the story of a scammer who cashed out and then
Speaker 1: did something cool other than the cultural appropriation. But I
Speaker 1: problem with flying around on the Celtic thing like so
Speaker 1: you'll just want to got some symbols. I don't know
Speaker 1: what these mean. McAfee is I'm sure I think that
Speaker 1: part is probably not like maybe he's probably Scott's irish.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess emails anything about mom came from me, McAfee.
Speaker 1: That one sounds Okay, yeah, you can have a Celtic
Speaker 1: wing if you get a Mac in your name, right right.
Speaker 1: As cool and extreme as John's life was, that battitude
Speaker 1: accusing the word man, I haven't gotten to use that
Speaker 1: since the nineties was not without cost to steal. An
Speaker 1: incredible sentence from Digital Trends writer Andrew Coots quote the
Speaker 1: sky Gypsy's would later prove to be one of McAfee's
Speaker 1: various downfalls. Hell of a sentence. Sky Gypsies just sounds
Speaker 1: like it couldn't fail. Yeah, it sounds like how could
Speaker 1: this go wrong. Near the end of two thousand six,
Speaker 1: McAfee's twenty one year old nephew, Joe Biddow, the head
Speaker 1: of the sky Gypsy's flight school, went up on a
Speaker 1: training flight with an aspiring Gypsy named Robert Gibson. Mr.
Speaker 1: Oh Yeah, dangerous nepotism. Mr Gibson was sixty one years old,
Speaker 1: roughly the same age as John McAfee, and newly retired.
Speaker 1: Like John, he decided that aerotrekking was a great way
Speaker 1: to spend his golden years. There was only one problem,
Speaker 1: and it was that Joel, ostensibly the head trainer, only
Speaker 1: had a sport pilot certificate, not an actual pilot's license. Now,
Speaker 1: Fast Company interviewed an f A spokesperson about this, who said, quote,
Speaker 1: someone with a sport pilot certificate cannot be paid for
Speaker 1: providing instruction, So legally this is a little bit of
Speaker 1: a gray area. You're not specifically banned from teaching people
Speaker 1: how to fly. You've got a sport pilot certificate which
Speaker 1: can't be paid to It can't be your job, which
Speaker 1: means that we can't trust because we can't trust that
Speaker 1: you know what you're doing, so you can't like, if
Speaker 1: you want to teach your friend how to fly, we
Speaker 1: can't stop you. But like you can't be the head
Speaker 1: of a flight school, right right, right, Like I can
Speaker 1: do my friends here at home, but I can't open
Speaker 1: the salon. And or your your uncle can't hire you
Speaker 1: to run his desert flight school. We hire steaks and that,
Speaker 1: Like you're teaching me about to fly and you don't
Speaker 1: know how to fly yourself, right, Yeah, so he's also
Speaker 1: a scammer. Runs in the family, shout out to them. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So these two guys, Joe Bitto and Robert Gibson go
Speaker 1: out flying and they wind up flying through a box
Speaker 1: canyon which is apparently the most dangerous thing to fly
Speaker 1: through because there's very little and he crashes and they
Speaker 1: both die horribly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So the Fast Company
Speaker 1: article goes into more detail about McAfee's reaction to the
Speaker 1: death of both his nephew. In an innocent grandpa quote.
Speaker 1: After the accident, McAfee says he struggled to understand how
Speaker 1: it could have happened. He speculate, how could putting an
Speaker 1: untrained man in charge of a pilot school. Okay, cool,
Speaker 1: so he didn't know how to fly plane, but still
Speaker 1: basically McAfee like positive that the old guy had been
Speaker 1: sick and had had had a heart attack during the
Speaker 1: flight and had like fallen onto the kite's wing. So
Speaker 1: he hadn't made up a whole he just he just lies. No, dude,
Speaker 1: you're you're untrained nephew got them both killed. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: isn't that the plot to that one book? What's that
Speaker 1: book called? Don't you know what? The pilot has a
Speaker 1: heart attack and then the kid is out with an
Speaker 1: axe the hatchet, Hatchet, that's the plot of the Hatchet.
Speaker 1: That is kind of the plot of Hatchet, except for
Speaker 1: the kid is the guy flying and dies right, He
Speaker 1: was like, how can I spend this? Um? Yeah, he
Speaker 1: had a heart attack anyway. Quote. To honor Beto's memory,
Speaker 1: McAfee had the image of a single tear drop added
Speaker 1: below his sky Chipsy's tattooed. Yeah, so he murdered his nephew.
Speaker 1: Is that what he's trying to murder? Murder? I'll say
Speaker 1: that that's a fair that that part's not appropriation. You
Speaker 1: did kill two guys, carry on. In an interview later,
Speaker 1: McAfee said, quote, aero tricking can create an avenue for
Speaker 1: self awareness. He told me seven months after Biddoh and
Speaker 1: Gilson died, you find self awareness by breaking boundaries, breaking taboos.
Speaker 1: Do you think you'll ever get bored of this too,
Speaker 1: I asked, I anticipate that happening, he said. It doesn't
Speaker 1: worry me at all. The seven months after he gets
Speaker 1: two people killed, he's already sputted into something optimism. It's
Speaker 1: just whatever. Yeah, you know, people dies sometimes theyr nephew, Yes,
Speaker 1: sometimes they're your nephew. Sometimes they're your nephew for your
Speaker 1: unregistered flight school. That's just the way it goes. In
Speaker 1: two thousand nine, the housing market crashed and the rest
Speaker 1: of the economy followed soon after two eight Actually, the
Speaker 1: arrest of the economy followed soon after. For brief time,
Speaker 1: hack journalists did a brisk business writing articles about former
Speaker 1: industry titans who had also lost a lot of money
Speaker 1: in the crash. Perhaps the most prominent of these was
Speaker 1: John McAfee. Here's an exerpt from an ABC News article
Speaker 1: at the time titled anti virus software pioneer gets a
Speaker 1: dose of reality quote. Like many wealthy Americans, McAfee was
Speaker 1: hit hard with the simultaneous collapse of real estate stocks
Speaker 1: in Wall Street investment banks. But he got whacked more
Speaker 1: than most, since much of his fortune was tied up
Speaker 1: in luxury properties. Oddly enough, when real estate markets crash,
Speaker 1: it's the higher end properties that crashed most, simply because
Speaker 1: they're not necessities. He said, My father always said real estate.
Speaker 1: You can't lose in real estate. You know, oddly enough
Speaker 1: you can. So yeah. He he put his property in
Speaker 1: New Mexico up for auction, sold his property in Colorado.
Speaker 1: Various sources I found say he was claiming his wealth
Speaker 1: had been reduced to less than ten million dollars, sometimes
Speaker 1: less than five million. Wow. Yeah, McAfee sold everything and
Speaker 1: later in two thousand nine, he moved to Belize. So
Speaker 1: was he not making any money off of fly airbikes?
Speaker 1: That was all a scam. Rumors started floating in the
Speaker 1: air show circuit that he had moved to Belize in
Speaker 1: been in all of these articles about how he lost
Speaker 1: his fortune in order to hide the fact that he
Speaker 1: still had most of his money um and move his assets,
Speaker 1: you know, out of the country into movies. So he
Speaker 1: gets he gets on the news and he was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I lost all my money. I lost all
Speaker 1: my money at a YadA YadA. But really he's just
Speaker 1: shoving stuff over to Belize because he knows that like
Speaker 1: the family of this guy who died at his flight schools, yeah,
Speaker 1: shout out to him. He was like, this disparaging article,
Speaker 1: I'll take it. He was like, yeah, we're cold. This
Speaker 1: is gonna work out great. Yeah. Yeah. In the years
Speaker 1: since the crash, John McAfee has repeatedly and openly claimed
Speaker 1: that these stories about the collapse of his fortune were
Speaker 1: all lies, told to protect himself from the many frivolous
Speaker 1: lawsuits against him. In two thousand seventeen, he told ABC
Speaker 1: News in a in an interview, quote I've had two
Speaker 1: hundred lawsuits in my life because my name is John McAfee. No,
Speaker 1: I didn't lose everything. I wanted to stop people from
Speaker 1: trying to sue me. So John didn't move to Belize alone.
Speaker 1: He brought along a small entourage, including some of his
Speaker 1: sky gypsies and his long term girlfriend, Jennifer Irwin. Wired
Speaker 1: talked to her around this time. Quote John has always
Speaker 1: been searching for something, says Jennifer Irwin. She remembers him
Speaker 1: telling her once that he was trying to reach the
Speaker 1: expansive horizon, but that expansive horizon seemed to be rushing
Speaker 1: away from John. He was in his early sixties now,
Speaker 1: his negligence had ruined his weird airplane club, and he
Speaker 1: was hiding his assets from a multitude of lawsuits. To
Speaker 1: make all that even worse, he was getting old. John
Speaker 1: seems to be one of those people who has always
Speaker 1: just been sort of naturally robust. He has a high
Speaker 1: tolerance for substances. He probably recovers quickly when he has
Speaker 1: a drug binge. He seems to have a fast metabolism
Speaker 1: that all aided him during his twenty years of being
Speaker 1: a rich adventure junkie but vitality only lasts so long
Speaker 1: without chemical assistance. So John McAfee started injecting his butt
Speaker 1: with testosterone twice a month. He moved into a beachside
Speaker 1: mansion and belize at an expat heavy community called ambergris K.
Speaker 1: There he launched a cigar company, coffee company, and a
Speaker 1: water taxi company. He claimed he was basically handing the
Speaker 1: business to locals for free, but it's just as likely
Speaker 1: that this was part of some scheme to hide his money. Now.
Speaker 1: He also took up a hobby of lying about himself
Speaker 1: on the Internet. During this time, he would claim to
Speaker 1: live in different countries than he did. He would put
Speaker 1: up false Facebook posts to make it look like he
Speaker 1: was building houses and countries where he didn't reside. That
Speaker 1: sort of thing. Jeff Wise wrote about this quote. Like
Speaker 1: many of McAfee's pranks, these gags are both fun and purposeful.
Speaker 1: There are, he mentions, five civil lawsuits against him currently
Speaker 1: pending in the United States. That's how it is in
Speaker 1: the States, He says, if people know you have money,
Speaker 1: they'll sue you, and his Facebook sham was just a
Speaker 1: harmless game of cat and mouse. The judge in one
Speaker 1: case he couldn't understand why I would put incorrect information
Speaker 1: about myself on the web. He says, I told him
Speaker 1: when I put that up, I wasn't under oath. He
Speaker 1: asked me why I would do such a thing. I said,
Speaker 1: I thought that if somebody wanted to serve me papers,
Speaker 1: it would be much more enjoyable for everyone involved if
Speaker 1: they tried to serve those papers to me and Honduras.
Speaker 1: So John McAfee moves to the lice just starts lying
Speaker 1: about himself to everyone he can, every journalist you can.
Speaker 1: And around this time he starts claiming in another interview
Speaker 1: that he started a business that's like rich people paying
Speaker 1: to watch other people do yoga, because he claims that
Speaker 1: studies show that you've gained benefits from exercise by watching
Speaker 1: people exercise. So he tells that to a journalist. But
Speaker 1: it's all just a lie, like he's just lying to
Speaker 1: reporters all the time, like this is a great plan. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't know where he lives, I don't know if
Speaker 1: he's got money. He's just lying to everyone about everything
Speaker 1: about him. And if you're going to do the things
Speaker 1: that John McAfee is about to do, it helps to
Speaker 1: shoot some chaff out into it. Maybe that's why I
Speaker 1: had a long game here. Yeah, it's the long game.
Speaker 1: And if you're playing the long game, listener, then you
Speaker 1: might want some of the fine products and or services
Speaker 1: that support this podcast and or program. And we're back.
Speaker 1: We're talking about John McAfee, who has just moved to
Speaker 1: Billy's uh in two thousand ten. During his second year there,
Speaker 1: he met a young doctor named Allison at Anisio. Here's
Speaker 1: how she described her journey to Jeff Wise. When I
Speaker 1: turned to their I cried on paper. Everyone envied me.
Speaker 1: I just bought a house, I had a partner in
Speaker 1: a job at Harvard. I just gotten a grant from
Speaker 1: the National Institutes of Health for a three year research program.
Speaker 1: I realized that the prospect of spending another three years
Speaker 1: in the lab was incredibly depressing. So I wrote a
Speaker 1: letter to a bunch of resorts and Belize, asking if
Speaker 1: I could come down at work and play my guitar.
Speaker 1: So this young woman who just finishes getting her medical
Speaker 1: degree flies down to Belize. Just been like a year
Speaker 1: playing guitar, chilling out and like living, having having fun.
Speaker 1: Before so envious of these lots, And then I was
Speaker 1: just like, I don't want to go somewhere and play
Speaker 1: my guitar. I want to fly an air or bike,
Speaker 1: Like what the fun is? Kind of lives? Are these
Speaker 1: here talking and pay my bills? Every guy damn day
Speaker 1: I had flying on AirBike and playing no damn guitar.
Speaker 1: And then also the people that McAfee took with him
Speaker 1: to Brazil's like, hey, y'all, y'all want to just come
Speaker 1: live in in Belize. I think their job was just
Speaker 1: being part of his entourage, Like they were just a
Speaker 1: millionaire's ontour. I shouldn't. That's your gig. That's a solid employment. Well,
Speaker 1: and and Allison found what she thought was solid employment
Speaker 1: this way. So she winds up playing guitar at a
Speaker 1: are where McAfee is and he starts talking to her, uh,
Speaker 1: and she talks to him about like the research that
Speaker 1: she wants to do and like what she's gonna do
Speaker 1: when she goes back home. And the research she was
Speaker 1: doing wasn't something called quorum testing. So it's like a
Speaker 1: way to fight bacteria without using antibiotics. It's like other
Speaker 1: kinds of substances that they don't kill bacteria, but they
Speaker 1: reprogrammed them so they're not dangerous. So this is the
Speaker 1: research Allison wanted to get into, right, So she tells
Speaker 1: McAfee about all this, and he's like, hell, i'll fund
Speaker 1: your research. I'm a crazy millionaire out here because she's
Speaker 1: talking about like how oh yeah, they find a lot
Speaker 1: of these chemicals and like plants and stuff, like jungle plants.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of different medicines in them. And he's like,
Speaker 1: it's great, that's great, I'll give you a bunch of money.
Speaker 1: You'll find medicine out here. So yeah, that John McAfee
Speaker 1: hires this doctor Lady side unseen and decides he's going
Speaker 1: to get into the business of making medicine. Yeah, why
Speaker 1: not other business trains, planes, autoimmune diseases. Yeah, it's the
Speaker 1: natural evolution of what he's into. So funding Allison's research
Speaker 1: quickly turned into John McAfee buying a bunch of land
Speaker 1: and an isolated jungle chunk of Belize, building a compound there,
Speaker 1: and creating a laboratory for Dr Anonisio to work in.
Speaker 1: The stated goal of this lab was to find new
Speaker 1: bacteria fighting medicines, but very quickly things started to get weird.
Speaker 1: Oh I know, I know, it's contest weird or you
Speaker 1: wish it was sex contest weird. M although there's some
Speaker 1: there's some sex stuff coming up. Gosh, and I've been
Speaker 1: to Belieze. It's like very ugly. They're yeah, and then
Speaker 1: belie o hell no, like the beaches are gross. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of jungle life and plans like jungle life
Speaker 1: and cash you plants. Is that it's trash. Don't go
Speaker 1: to believe. I'm gonna say, go to beliefs. Don't just
Speaker 1: don't be John McAfee. Only go if you are John McAfee.
Speaker 1: So he creates this plant. So he creates this thing
Speaker 1: in the jungle, this this, this, this lab in the jungle,
Speaker 1: and he moves his doctor out there and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: He starts inviting journalists over at his jungle compound to
Speaker 1: talk about his new venture, including our friend Jeff Wise
Speaker 1: at Fast Company. Now, Jeff visited in early two thousand
Speaker 1: and ten, and at that time most of McAfee ships
Speaker 1: seemed to be together. So McAfee said, ship like, for
Speaker 1: twenty years, I played around, and now I'm serious about
Speaker 1: doing something positive. So he's trying to like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: you know, especially since he just got two people killed.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a do a good thing here. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna give back to the world to provide a heal
Speaker 1: the planet. So there were some signs that things might
Speaker 1: be wrong. McAfee lied to Wise and told him that
Speaker 1: he and Dr ed Anisio had been working together for
Speaker 1: two years when they've only been working together for seven months.
Speaker 1: He also called her like a leading mind in the
Speaker 1: field when she was really just starting out. Like so
Speaker 1: he's over yeah, he oversells everything to reporters, but there
Speaker 1: is a lab they are working on stuff. She seems
Speaker 1: to be seriously trying to do something. Um. But during
Speaker 1: that interview in two thousand ten, McAfee kind of like
Speaker 1: suddenly dropped the information that his company mission had expanded
Speaker 1: beyond making medicine to making fun drugs. So fuck drugs,
Speaker 1: FU drugs. So the worst sex contest happening probably, I
Speaker 1: mean between Mr McAfee and himself. He just can't stop.
Speaker 1: He just can't stop. So he Basically the way Allison
Speaker 1: told Jeff Wise, the journalist who's interviewing her, is that
Speaker 1: McAfee suddenly came to her with a brainstorm that what
Speaker 1: if what if we tried to find like an herbal
Speaker 1: compound that would be a libido booster to women. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, then we could make a bunch of money
Speaker 1: which we could use to fund our other research into medicine.
Speaker 1: So it's just like his whole personal problem. He's like,
Speaker 1: ladies are no longer aroused by me? Can you make something?
Speaker 1: He's like using this for his own drug compact. He said,
Speaker 1: can you make something that makes me sexy women? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that might be what's going on. He was just trying
Speaker 1: to make like Spanish fly in a lab. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: It's also I don't think he has much of an
Speaker 1: attention span, so that might be part of it. It's
Speaker 1: certainly part creepy, but it also might part be John
Speaker 1: McAfee can't focus on anything from what how do we
Speaker 1: go from saving lives to like those little pills that
Speaker 1: they sell in the gas? He went from saving lives
Speaker 1: to like extend what heaven? Oh yeah, that is a
Speaker 1: really quick amount of time. Yeah. So uh. The next
Speaker 1: major article about John McAfee was published in late two
Speaker 1: thousand twelve by Wired's Joshua Davis. So in the two
Speaker 1: years between that Fast Company article where John announces that
Speaker 1: he's making fun drugs and it is into medicine. And
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, when Wired gets on on things, John's
Speaker 1: condition degenerated substantially. The Wired article revealed that McAfee had
Speaker 1: started spending increasing periods of time in an isolated town
Speaker 1: named Orange Walk, which was kind of near his drug
Speaker 1: making compound. Now. In emails to friends, John described Orange
Speaker 1: Walk as quote the asshole of the world. Uh, he
Speaker 1: wrote in one email, quote my fragile connection with the
Speaker 1: world of polite society. Had us, without a doubt, been severed,
Speaker 1: my attire would rank me among the worst dressed Tijuana panhandlers.
Speaker 1: My hygiene is no better. Yesterday, for the first time,
Speaker 1: I urinated it in public in broad daylight. So John,
Speaker 1: John's going through some ship. Okay, Yeah, I'm drugs catching
Speaker 1: up or maybe it maybe drugs we will be talking
Speaker 1: about that, I mean, like the ones that he did
Speaker 1: in the past. Yeah, and maybe the guilt from killing
Speaker 1: his nephew and that old guy. Oh you think maybe
Speaker 1: he has feel like he might have slept well on
Speaker 1: that one. And just either way, for whatever reason, when
Speaker 1: he first moves to belieze, he moves to this like
Speaker 1: beautiful mansion on the beach, and like a really nice
Speaker 1: part of Belize, like a resort part of town, and
Speaker 1: he quickly leaves that to go build a compound in
Speaker 1: the jungle in like a place nobody goes, like where
Speaker 1: everybody's really poor and like it's not like a tourist spot.
Speaker 1: So he like builds a compound in the jungle, and
Speaker 1: then he leaves there to go hang out in a dirt,
Speaker 1: poor small town and like sit around in a really
Speaker 1: grimy bar and watch prostitutes all day and not drink.
Speaker 1: Like that's that's what John mc ifee's life turns into
Speaker 1: at this point. So while he's hanging out at that
Speaker 1: bar watching prostitutes, he gets to know several prostitutes everything
Speaker 1: just being a weird old guy hanging out in a
Speaker 1: bar watching teenage prostitutes. So he winds up falling in
Speaker 1: love with one of these teenage but of course he
Speaker 1: does a sixteen year old girl named Imschweiler Uh, And
Speaker 1: sixteen is the age of consent in Belize, so he's
Speaker 1: not committing a crime in Belize. It's important although morally
Speaker 1: I don't think fifty sixty year old should sixteen years,
Speaker 1: but there's no it's not like illegal so he dumps
Speaker 1: his longtime girlfriend for this sixteen year old prostitute. He
Speaker 1: brings the prostitute im Schwilder to his compound. Uh, and
Speaker 1: then she almost murders him. According to that wild shout
Speaker 1: out to her Schwiler, Im Schwilder and Schwilder. Yeah. According
Speaker 1: to wired quote, she slipped out of bed and pulled McAfee,
Speaker 1: Smith and Wesson out of a holster hanging from an
Speaker 1: ancient Tibetan gong in his bedroom. Her plan, if it
Speaker 1: could be called that, was to kill him and make
Speaker 1: off with as much cash as she could scrounge up.
Speaker 1: She crept it for the foot of the bed, aimed,
Speaker 1: and started to pull the trigger, but at the last
Speaker 1: moment she closed her eyes and the bullet went wide,
Speaker 1: ripping through a pillow. I guess I didn't want to
Speaker 1: kill the bastard, she admits. So this will not be
Speaker 1: the last time that one of John McAfee's lovers almost
Speaker 1: gets him murdered. Also, he's old as houses. You definitely
Speaker 1: did not have to murder him to make off with
Speaker 1: his cash. You could have just thole small amounts every day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, you would have been fine. I mean, maybe
Speaker 1: he's just the kind of guy you want to shoot.
Speaker 1: He does seem that way. So after he moved to Belize,
Speaker 1: John's old entourage gradually faded away and was replaced by
Speaker 1: increasing numbers of young women, including the teenage m schwilder
Speaker 1: and heavily armed belize In men with criminal backgrounds. She
Speaker 1: became the R Kelly of Belize. Yeah, but like less
Speaker 1: evil but shadier. So like R. Kelly to and hang
Speaker 1: around with like convicted murderers and is always well okay, R.
Speaker 1: R Kelly isn't constantly photographed with gang members holding guns
Speaker 1: next to him, which McAfee is during this period. There's
Speaker 1: always big like bullies in guys with criminal backgrounds holding
Speaker 1: like scoped rifles standing behind him with like a pack
Speaker 1: of wild dogs around him. That's every picture of John
Speaker 1: McAfee and Belize is. He is shirtless, he's surrounded by
Speaker 1: large belies and men holding rifles and like a gaggle
Speaker 1: of teenage girls and a bunch of dogs. So it's
Speaker 1: like the chase of his courage. Yeah, this is the
Speaker 1: Choppo of his career. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would. I
Speaker 1: would definitely say choppish, although like R. Kelly, we are
Speaker 1: about to get into a rape allegation. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean that's not totally off base. Yeah, no, it's not
Speaker 1: shocking either. All monsters have more in common with each
Speaker 1: other than than they don't. Absolutely, I mean, this guy
Speaker 1: was doing sex contests, so we pretty much knew he
Speaker 1: was a deviant, you know, back in the day. I
Speaker 1: don't even know if that's devis for all we know
Speaker 1: he has a salt and people there. Yeah, it might
Speaker 1: have been. I haven't heard any allegations. Yeah, there's not
Speaker 1: allegations yet. When those people were interviewed, most of them
Speaker 1: seemed to think fondly at that time, so it may
Speaker 1: have just been a bunch of weirdos that have enough
Speaker 1: fun company together. Sometimes you get the right one, sometimes
Speaker 1: you find the right crew. So in two thousand eleven,
Speaker 1: John McAfee was rated by the Belize and authorities on
Speaker 1: suspicion of producing meth amphetamine. According to Wired's reporting, McAfee
Speaker 1: initially stormed out naked wielding a handgun, but once he
Speaker 1: realized what was happening, he put down his gun and
Speaker 1: went inside to get pants. He was arrested there by
Speaker 1: the Belize and police commandos. When he was toldly suspected
Speaker 1: him of making meth. He told them that is a
Speaker 1: startling hypothesis, sir, because I haven't sold drugs since nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty three. Hey, hey, it's telling the truth. Telling the truth.
Speaker 1: So the raid hauled out a bunch of guns and
Speaker 1: someone unidentified crystalline chemical John claimed was related to he
Speaker 1: and doctor at Anisio's work. But Belize tested the substance
Speaker 1: and it wasn't meth or anything else illegal. They weren't
Speaker 1: really sure what the hell it was. To this day,
Speaker 1: there is no conclusive answer as to what exactly John
Speaker 1: McAfee was making in that jungle, although in Part two
Speaker 1: we will talk about the best theory. It's worth noting
Speaker 1: that this was right around the time when John McAfee
Speaker 1: started posting on the drug forum blue Light about his
Speaker 1: growing affinity for bath salts, specifically a drug called m
Speaker 1: D p V. Now, if you've never done m d
Speaker 1: p V, how would I describe m d Too many
Speaker 1: letters for me, I'm not going to drug with more
Speaker 1: than two lettuce I love vp Q eight. That sounds
Speaker 1: like my life will never be the same. The m
Speaker 1: d p V is like if adderall hit you in
Speaker 1: the face before it started to work like, that's that's
Speaker 1: m D. It's like angry piste off adderall. That's that's
Speaker 1: how I described MV drugs to be angry kind of
Speaker 1: people who take m D p V. That's one of
Speaker 1: the face eating drugs like these are the bath salts
Speaker 1: everybody was talking about back then. Now, when Wired talked
Speaker 1: to him, McAfee claimed that all of the writing he'd
Speaker 1: done about bath salts on the internet was actually just
Speaker 1: another gag to stir up the waters and quote it
Speaker 1: was the most tongue in cheek thing in the fucking world.
Speaker 1: If I'm going to do drugs, I'm gonna do something
Speaker 1: that I know is good. I'm gonna grab some mushrooms
Speaker 1: number one and maybe get some really fine cocaine. So
Speaker 1: maybe that's true. Maybe he was lying about bath salts
Speaker 1: on the internet to throw over one off the case. Um,
Speaker 1: but I have read through the posts that he put
Speaker 1: up on blue Light. They're pretty intricate. John post pictures
Speaker 1: of lab equipment and asks for very technical advice on
Speaker 1: how to produce a drug. He seems to know a
Speaker 1: lot about other people in the forum who are drug chemists,
Speaker 1: like give him serious answers it's not just you know, bro,
Speaker 1: this drugs awesome talk. It's like shop talk from chemists
Speaker 1: to chemists. So maybe it's all a scam, or maybe
Speaker 1: him trying to make it into a scam as the scam,
Speaker 1: and John McAfee was doing a shipload of bath salts,
Speaker 1: it would make some of this make more sense scam
Speaker 1: because nobody asks for like, no one asks for specific
Speaker 1: detail information about making drugs. Was like, no, this is
Speaker 1: another one of my hygiene. It's not of my hys. John,
Speaker 1: You're talking for pages about how to like distill this
Speaker 1: stuff properly. I got you, suckers. You had all those pages,
Speaker 1: didn't you know? You literally had chemicals. You had pictures
Speaker 1: of beakers and you're doing stuff and that. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was trying to make Superman. Whatever. The truth about John's
Speaker 1: experimentation with bassalts. His behavior after this point ratches up
Speaker 1: to a level of intensity that I think crosses the
Speaker 1: line into madness and may in fact be the result
Speaker 1: of drugged conjection, maybe bassaults, maybe something else. Uh, but
Speaker 1: you remember that sixteen year old prostitute he was in
Speaker 1: love with to shoot it, who tried to shoot him
Speaker 1: but then didn't. Well, she started telling him dire stories
Speaker 1: about a nearby town called Karmlita, which shout out to
Speaker 1: Warren Yvon she said was a wretched hive of scum
Speaker 1: and villainy. Basically, she starts telling him this town is
Speaker 1: filled with monstrous criminals who rape and torch with impunity,
Speaker 1: and it's a big like secret drug hub network and
Speaker 1: all this terrible stuff. So he kept her around after
Speaker 1: she tried to shoot him. Oh yeah, of course did
Speaker 1: he not wake up when the No, he did, and
Speaker 1: he took the gun out of her hands. But he
Speaker 1: forgave her. He was like, girl, good, he just he
Speaker 1: gave her a separate bungalow. Yeah, that's kind of this.
Speaker 1: That's not the only time he does that. Damn, he's forgiving.
Speaker 1: He's forgiving. I'll give that to John McAfee like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, go to the guest house, give me the gun.
Speaker 1: Not even the second person to shoot at me today,
Speaker 1: John McAfee. So um. McAfee told Wired later quote, Carmelita
Speaker 1: was literally the Wild West. I didn't realize that two
Speaker 1: miles away was the most corrupt village on the planet.
Speaker 1: So McAfee says that out of concern that this teenager
Speaker 1: who tried to kill him, like was telling the truth
Speaker 1: about this dangerous town. He basically decided to become batman there.
Speaker 1: So McAfee's next big move is to start using his
Speaker 1: wealth to fight crime in the town of Carmelo. Bruce Wayne, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Bruce Wayne. So he buys a small cement house and
Speaker 1: hires workers to basically build a jail because the town
Speaker 1: hadn't had a jail. He calls the cops like responsible
Speaker 1: for the area and tells them to start arresting people.
Speaker 1: And when the police were like, we don't really have
Speaker 1: any equipment to like do that with, he starts buying
Speaker 1: him sixteens boots, pepper spray stunt guns and ship like that.
Speaker 1: You could just get him handguns. John McCafe John mccafee says,
Speaker 1: this is serious crime going on here. I need to
Speaker 1: be able to people. One time, some people who actually
Speaker 1: lived in the area said that McAfee basically made himself
Speaker 1: a private army and started issuing orders to like go
Speaker 1: after people that he didn't like. And he starts he
Speaker 1: confronts some of these people that he says are criminals
Speaker 1: with like guns in their own homes, and it's like
Speaker 1: like low key colonizing beliefs. Yeah, yeah, he's a he's
Speaker 1: a one man colonize, one man colonize and this is
Speaker 1: a poor ass like the journalist Joshu Smith. The journalist
Speaker 1: actually went to Carmelita to try and see, like is
Speaker 1: this a dangerous no man's land? Like did he stumble
Speaker 1: onto a real terrible place that needs fixing and he
Speaker 1: just finds a poor village filled with people who had
Speaker 1: no fucking idea? What Johnson should? I have ever heard?
Speaker 1: I have ever I don't think anybody has lived a
Speaker 1: wider white man life than John McAfee. He did everything.
Speaker 1: He did everything, all the white man everything. He started
Speaker 1: for company and based off lies, he scammed his way
Speaker 1: running for president. God shout out to him. He did.
Speaker 1: He taught card but he across the board, through the middle,
Speaker 1: the free space, everything. And I'm such a white guy.
Speaker 1: I didn't even realize that until you said it, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he did do everything that a white guy can do. Listen,
Speaker 1: this is what I will to say about mcaphee. You
Speaker 1: talk about take advantage of some privilege. Yes, motherfucker took
Speaker 1: a prandedge to the fullest extent. He squeezed all of
Speaker 1: the juice out of whiteness. They're not even mad at it.
Speaker 1: There is there is no more white privilege left in
Speaker 1: his privilege sponge. He dry, I'm not mad at I'm
Speaker 1: I'm really not mad at it. Uh yeah. So one
Speaker 1: of the village elders who that that journalist Joshua Smith interviewed,
Speaker 1: said quote, I thought he would come by, introduce himself
Speaker 1: and explain what he was doing here. But he never did.
Speaker 1: He just showed up and started telling us what to do.
Speaker 1: And it worked, and it worked, and it worked well,
Speaker 1: and there was much crime to stop, but he got
Speaker 1: to play batman for a while. I don't even think
Speaker 1: that girl told him there was some crime there. He
Speaker 1: just made that up, like my girlfriend. Oh god. John. So,
Speaker 1: now at this point, Dr at An Eisio, who's remember
Speaker 1: still trying to make medicine here, started worrying about John McAfee.
Speaker 1: Over the months they'd worked together, she'd noticed him hiring
Speaker 1: more and more armed men. She'd also noticed that his
Speaker 1: room at the compound was filmed with literal garbage bags
Speaker 1: of money and boxes of viagra and other unidentified pharmaceuticals.
Speaker 1: She decided to leave the country and in two thousand twelve,
Speaker 1: when that Wired article was written, that's all anyone knew
Speaker 1: about the end of their working relationship. She just told
Speaker 1: Wired basically like I just I just left, you know. Uh.
Speaker 1: Four years later, in two thousands sixteen, Dr d Anisio
Speaker 1: talked to Annett Bernstein for a Showtime documentary on John
Speaker 1: mccafee's life. She gave a very different story than one
Speaker 1: that paints John McAfee not as a fun, wacky libertarian
Speaker 1: cookie character, but as a monster. And we're going to
Speaker 1: play an exerpt from that right now. He would talk
Speaker 1: about how he could have people hurt or killed, and um,
Speaker 1: you know, honestly, I was. I was scared. I planned
Speaker 1: to leave, but I needed to figure out how to
Speaker 1: do it. You know. I went to talk to him.
Speaker 1: I sat there on the couch and I and I
Speaker 1: told him everything. I said. Look, I don't I don't
Speaker 1: like what you're doing. I am not getting anywhere with
Speaker 1: my work. I feel undermines, and um, how I missed
Speaker 1: my family. I want to go home, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: had a headache. I was, I was crying so much.
Speaker 1: I I told him I had a headache, and and
Speaker 1: he he brought me. Um. He you know, he went
Speaker 1: into the other room and he brought me two pills
Speaker 1: and a glass of orange juice, and so I took them,
Speaker 1: I you know, and I took a sip of the
Speaker 1: orange juice and it tasted foul. It tasted bitter. Um.
Speaker 1: Such an idiot. I remember I made a joke about
Speaker 1: not being able to get good orange juice in a
Speaker 1: place called Orange Walk, like I honestly. So, she claims
Speaker 1: that basically she blacked out after that point. Something was
Speaker 1: in the orange juice pretty clearly, and she has snatches
Speaker 1: of memory, and one of them is John mc if
Speaker 1: he standing over her naked um. She alleges that he
Speaker 1: raped her. It seems like a pretty credible allegation. Also
Speaker 1: doesn't seem I don't have a whole lot of trouble
Speaker 1: imagining John McAfee being a rapist after everything we've talked
Speaker 1: about stockpiling BIA. So she was just trying to leave.
Speaker 1: She wass what I mean, the fact that she went
Speaker 1: off with this millionaire and to a compound to like
Speaker 1: try to do drug research, that was all crazy. But
Speaker 1: like this is the kind of crazy anyone you get
Speaker 1: him at the right point, with the right thing. If
Speaker 1: you're the type of person who leaves the country to
Speaker 1: go play guitar, chances are like, yeah you would, why
Speaker 1: not taking a chance? And absolutely and she had gone, Okay,
Speaker 1: he didn't put in the money to build he said
Speaker 1: he was going to do. But like she came to
Speaker 1: you and said that she wanted to go home, Like
Speaker 1: that is just so disgusting, Like what a piece of ship.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And this is a dark and terrible note
Speaker 1: to end our first episode, but it's the note that
Speaker 1: we're gonna end on in the next episode starts with murder.
Speaker 1: So buckle up, enjoy that, Lacy. You want to plug
Speaker 1: your plug doubles before we uh we roll off? Damn.
Speaker 1: I need to dis is myself from that. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: know I should. I didn't know where to stick that,
Speaker 1: but I felt like the end. You know, Um, if
Speaker 1: you like the sentence of that poor woman is just
Speaker 1: the worst way to lead into any kind of pivot.
Speaker 1: That poor woman. If you're looking for a bed, if
Speaker 1: you like sad no, um, yeah, but shout out to
Speaker 1: her so sad um. I'm scam God. I do love scams,
Speaker 1: but I don't hurt people. Guys, let's swear. Yeah, good
Speaker 1: nature scams. That's not me, but yeah, so look out
Speaker 1: for my podcast Scam Goddess, and you follow me on
Speaker 1: Twitter at DVA Lacey d I V A l A
Speaker 1: c I or on Instagram at DVA Lacey d I
Speaker 1: d A l A c I. How more updates there,
Speaker 1: And I'm Robert Evans. You can find me on Twitter
Speaker 1: at I Write out Kay. You can find this podcast
Speaker 1: on the internet Behind the Bastards dot com. You can
Speaker 1: find us on Instagram at Twitter at Bastards pod. You
Speaker 1: can buy T shirts, you buy cups, you can buy stickers.
Speaker 1: You can buy the mummified hand of an Egyptian pharaoh,
Speaker 1: all on t public dot com, all branded UH with
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards logos UH and special Mummy Fighting Witchcraft.
Speaker 1: Can buy it products