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Speaker 1: M. Hey, what's scrambling my eggs? M Robert Evans. This

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Speaker 1: is behind the bastards. That's my new introduction. Sophie is

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Speaker 1: crawling under the desk, so overwhelmed with shame that she

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Speaker 1: can no longer sit upright. Uh, but there's no taking

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Speaker 1: it out, there's no editing it. I'm I'm sitting here

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Speaker 1: in the studio with my guest, Lacey Mosley. Lacy, how

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Speaker 1: are you doing? I'm doing good? Lacy. You are a comedian,

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Speaker 1: an actress, also deeply embarrassed in a scam. Godess, no,

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Speaker 1: I love them what scrambled in my age? Thank you? No,

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Speaker 1: they would not know, they would not, but we lost

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Speaker 1: that demographic, so lazy, you are a scam got Us

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Speaker 1: has already stated you were on our episode about Karl

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Speaker 1: may Sh Hitler's favorite author, scammer. Today we're talking about

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Speaker 1: another scammer, and in fact, we're talking about a scammer

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Speaker 1: who fooled me for a little while. So yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is gonna good. So he's good. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you i'd say he's good, But like you know, everybody's

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Speaker 1: got something they're vulnerable to from a scammer. And I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna find out what your vulnerability. Yeah, I've got a

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Speaker 1: vulnerability to the scam. This guy was popping all right.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of John McAfee. Um, if it's

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Speaker 1: involved with the computer program virus virus, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: This is the guy who invented that. He's quite a character,

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Speaker 1: and that's what we're talking about today. John David McAfee

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Speaker 1: was born in the Forest of Dean in Gloucestershire, England,

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Speaker 1: on September eighteenth. His father was an American soldier and

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Speaker 1: his mother was a British person. He was raised in Salem, Virginia,

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Speaker 1: although other sources say Roanoke. Like most things about John McAfee,

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Speaker 1: the story is a little different depending on who you

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Speaker 1: hear it from, which is kind of one of the

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Speaker 1: first signs that somebody's a little bit of a scammer. Now.

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Speaker 1: McAfee's mom worked as a bank teller. His dad was

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Speaker 1: a road surveyor and a drunk. McAfee says he was

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Speaker 1: a very unhappy man and who beat both John and

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Speaker 1: his mother. He shot himself and John was fifteen. Uh

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Speaker 1: and McAfee later told Wired in an interview, quote, every

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Speaker 1: day I wake up with him. Every relationship I have.

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Speaker 1: He's by my side every mistrust. He is the negotiator

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Speaker 1: of that mistrust. So my life is fucked. So starting

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Speaker 1: this on a dark note, but also a very juicy backstory,

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Speaker 1: like a scammer needs like something to feign vulnerability with everybody.

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Speaker 1: That story. He's like, yeah, I stold at your wallet,

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Speaker 1: but really, my dad stole his dad, his whole life.

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Speaker 1: I love it. Wait to his dad have an accent?

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Speaker 1: Do we know? No? I mean his dad was an American.

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing his mom did. It would have been exact.

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Speaker 1: He has kind of a weird voice, but I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: say he sounds he doesn't. She doesn't sound British. No, alright,

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Speaker 1: scam level. Oh yeah, I trust anything British people say. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: It's a superpower they have. It's why they ruled the

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Speaker 1: world briefly. Yeah, exactly. That's why when you become rich,

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Speaker 1: you become British. That's why Madonna is British now exactly.

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Speaker 1: I as soon too will be British one day. I'll

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Speaker 1: come on this podcast and all of enough money tod

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Speaker 1: like this, but continue. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, that's a

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Speaker 1: that's a great that's a great Madonna pretending to be

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Speaker 1: British accent, by the way, because it doesn't sound British

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Speaker 1: or fake British, it sounds Madonna fake British exactly. Specific

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Speaker 1: shout out to a number one scammer. John enrolled in

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Speaker 1: Rowan Oak College. He sold magazine scriptions door to door

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Speaker 1: in order to make money for Booze, which, like his dad,

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Speaker 1: he drank way too much of uh. In interviews, McAfee

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Speaker 1: claims he made a fortune in the subscriptions business by

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Speaker 1: telling people who answered the door that they'd won a

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Speaker 1: free subscription, they just had to pay a shipping and

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Speaker 1: handling figure. Yes, that's the oldest late night TV scam ever.

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Speaker 1: That's how I got my ice potty. It was free,

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Speaker 1: but I just paid and shipping and handling ice potty.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's not a potty like for peeing, like

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Speaker 1: like you know how it's like a bowl. It's probably

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Speaker 1: about the name, but it's a bowl and then the

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Speaker 1: ice is made on the sides, and then you cracked

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Speaker 1: the bowl and you got a bowl of ice. I've

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Speaker 1: never heard you've never seen this info martial. Now, can

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Speaker 1: you sell me one of these fantastic products? Lay listen,

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Speaker 1: ice without the limitations of plastic containers. Are you entertaining?

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Speaker 1: I spoke it for your one? Are you sick? I

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Speaker 1: spoke it for your head? Are you ice? Helmet? But yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's how they get you, y'all. And that's door to

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Speaker 1: door too, so there's no way to confirm or deny.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to him. Always door to door. People like

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Speaker 1: are normally scammers. That's like the first startup scam for

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Speaker 1: most scammers. And you would think that maybe we'd have gene. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Genie sounds sexier than past. I get that ice. Genie

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Speaker 1: is free. You just gotta send a little money. So

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Speaker 1: John got his bachelor's degree in nineteen sixty seven. He

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Speaker 1: started studying for a PhD in mathematics at Northeast Louisiana

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Speaker 1: State College, but he got expelled for sleeping with and

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Speaker 1: then marrying an undergraduate student he was supposed to be managing.

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Speaker 1: He bounced around so of coding jobs, but his career

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Speaker 1: was interrupted when he got busted buying pot. He managed

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Speaker 1: to avoid any sort of conviction, probably because he was

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Speaker 1: a white guy. Uh get busted by pot? I mean

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Speaker 1: who was getting busted by? And this is nineteen six,

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Speaker 1: the sixties, so maybe it happened more. I feel like

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Speaker 1: that's that's even more cause for it not to be

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Speaker 1: how you got bust. We both come from Dallas. I

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Speaker 1: know people who got busted buying weed. Oh yeah, this

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Speaker 1: feels like the laziest way to go to jail is

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Speaker 1: like it has to feel dumb. He wasn't just going

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Speaker 1: around everywhere like free love freeweed, I think in some places.

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Speaker 1: But if he was in Louisiana, like like an undercover cop,

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Speaker 1: try to something, Hi, sir, would you like to partake it?

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Speaker 1: Would you like some? Mary? Joanna, Mary, Mary Anne Jane.

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Speaker 1: Do you like puffing on reverse? Meet me in this alley? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Maybe he was just shitty at buying pot, But anyway,

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Speaker 1: he got out of the charges. In the nineteen sixty nine,

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Speaker 1: the Missouri Pacific Railroad Company hired him to basically prog

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Speaker 1: him their IBM based computers to schedule trains. Now, McAfee

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Speaker 1: didn't know how to do any of this. He wrote

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Speaker 1: out a fake resume and he got the job because

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Speaker 1: there was no internet back then. There's no way to

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Speaker 1: check on the ship, like, yeah, shout out to him.

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Speaker 1: Here's wired quote. After six months, McAfee's system began to

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Speaker 1: turn out optimize train routing patterns. One morning, he decided

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Speaker 1: to experiment with another psychedelic called d MT. He did

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Speaker 1: a line, felt nothing, and decided to snort a whole

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Speaker 1: bag of the orange Is powder. Within an hour, my

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Speaker 1: mind was shattered. McAfee says part of him still believes

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Speaker 1: he's still on that trip, that everything since has been

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Speaker 1: one giant hallucination, and that one day he'll snap out

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Speaker 1: of it and find himself back on his couch and St.

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Speaker 1: Louis listening to Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon.

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Speaker 1: What have you ever had a drug trip like that? No,

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Speaker 1: because I'm just I'm scared to go that deep. But

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Speaker 1: I will say that I have done acid, and you

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Speaker 1: could definitely go to work our acid. You know, everyone's

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Speaker 1: made ascid out to be so crazy. I know someone

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Speaker 1: who micro does his acid every single day and the

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Speaker 1: happiest person I've ever met. And apparently you can do

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Speaker 1: your job on acid. I've done a lot of different

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Speaker 1: jobs on acid. One episode of this podcast was recorded

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Speaker 1: on acid, but I won't tell. Everyone has to get

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Speaker 1: but he's got to guess which episode. If you guess correct,

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Speaker 1: we will send you I can I can't send you,

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Speaker 1: I will send you behind the bastard swag. All you

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Speaker 1: have to send me is a hundred dollars for shipping

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Speaker 1: and handling. I'll send you some acid. All you've got

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Speaker 1: to send me is I didn't even notice she doing

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Speaker 1: a scam there, Lacy. That was good, like the finesse.

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Speaker 1: You gotta have the finesse ready made. That so smooth.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so you can do shot on assets. Are

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Speaker 1: you telling me that this guy scammed his way into

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Speaker 1: this job that he had no routing trains? So also,

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Speaker 1: can we just realize how with the gravity of train

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Speaker 1: routing and they didn't even ask, They didn't even ask

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Speaker 1: my man is to like route one train, you know

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Speaker 1: in a training process that we're like, here, can you

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Speaker 1: show us how you route the train? Like, so, trains

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Speaker 1: could have been crashing, people could have just been dying

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Speaker 1: left around. People just trusted anything printed on paperback then

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Speaker 1: was like why OK, and it's embossed, all right? What's this?

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Speaker 1: He vet? Oh the job is yours. The job is yours, sir.

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Speaker 1: Let's put some lives in this man's hands right away.

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Speaker 1: Oh god? But then he got good at it? Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean maybe it's just not that hard. I've never

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Speaker 1: routed trains. Neither have I yea, but I can see

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Speaker 1: how Like there's that guy Doc Ellis who pitched a

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Speaker 1: no hitter in baseball on LSD, Like, I can see

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Speaker 1: how the way that acid works, how you could you

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Speaker 1: could do that sort of job. Well, for sure, because

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Speaker 1: you're like, it's about focus and stuff. I remember just

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Speaker 1: staring at some trees for yeah, And I understand what

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Speaker 1: he's saying about, like having a trip that goes so

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Speaker 1: far that you're never quite sure that you've come back

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Speaker 1: from it. Because I thought there's there's a couple of those.

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Speaker 1: I still wake up in the middle of the night

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Speaker 1: sometimes pretty sure. I'm back in Denton at in the

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Speaker 1: morning twelve years ago. That is a specific I did

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Speaker 1: a lot of drugs in den back in the day. Right,

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Speaker 1: Is this a good place in dn Are you like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm back in that dinner is very good place. And

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Speaker 1: didn't This is very true, there's no good Sorry didn't

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Speaker 1: Texas you know your trash. We all know some solid

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Speaker 1: DFW area. I'm back at the water Burger. I can

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Speaker 1: tell it's didn't because there's that smell in the air. Right,

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Speaker 1: drugs in the Bama so I could think I'm back

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Speaker 1: somewhere nice. Yeah, that would have been That would have

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Speaker 1: been a wiser choice. So drugs did as drugs do,

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Speaker 1: and McAfee accelerated into a massive, uncontrollable addiction. He started

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Speaker 1: doing cocaine every morning, drinking a bottle of hard liquor

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Speaker 1: every day. His marriage fell apart. You know all the

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Speaker 1: things that you expect from a serious substance abuse problem.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think he's lying about this. Just based

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Speaker 1: on what comes next, I'm pretty sure this part's true.

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Speaker 1: In the nineteen seventies, he moved to Silicon Valley, where

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Speaker 1: drugs come from, and of course his problems got even worse.

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Speaker 1: But still he was able to maintain a sometimes unstable

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Speaker 1: but generally profitable career as a programmer. By nineteen eighty three,

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Speaker 1: he was director of engineering at a company called Omex.

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Speaker 1: He was thirty eight years a selling cocaine to his

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Speaker 1: employees and railing lines off his desk every morning in

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Speaker 1: Santa clar In. This might have made him one of

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Speaker 1: the less wild middle managers in the country. Look, I

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Speaker 1: watched woof of wall ship and yeah, that ship is problematic.

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Speaker 1: And I'm glad work places are safe, but by O, boy,

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Speaker 1: would I have loved to just have one day at

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Speaker 1: a job where everybody was just doing cocaine in the bathroom. Alright,

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Speaker 1: is everyone here for the morning meeting gregor? Okay? And

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Speaker 1: that's part of why I hate those guys, because they

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Speaker 1: had to like funk with people's money, and they had

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Speaker 1: to like I'm gonna guess most of them were rape two.

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Speaker 1: If we could have all just made it be a

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Speaker 1: thing where everybody was just always doing drugs at work,

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Speaker 1: what a better economy that would be. The FBI was

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Speaker 1: just railing lines of you know, PCP or something and

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Speaker 1: then going out in the morning, Like yeah, but so

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Speaker 1: much energy, so much energy, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Not much I could get done every day the shutdown.

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Speaker 1: They wouldn't have even noticed, Like it's been thirty days.

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Speaker 1: I haven't slept in thirty days. Oh, I haven't gotten paid.

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Speaker 1: I got a check on this. I need to buy more. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: one of the side of extra drugs is poor judgment.

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Speaker 1: So that is a big part of the John McAfee story. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so he describes himself at this time as constantly terrified

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Speaker 1: about running out of drugs. He contemplated suicide on the

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Speaker 1: daily basis, and eventually misery drove him to a therapist

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Speaker 1: who sent him to Alcoholics anonymous, And that seemed to

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Speaker 1: work really well for John McAfee for a little while.

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Speaker 1: He sobered up, he claims forever. But as you'll learn,

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Speaker 1: what John claim should not be taken at face value

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Speaker 1: at any rate. He told Wired, his first A meeting

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Speaker 1: is what really started his life. Now sober McAfee swared

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Speaker 1: to unthinkable heights. He got a job designing software for

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Speaker 1: Lockheed Martin UH and it was there that he came

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Speaker 1: across his very first computer virus, something called the Pakistani

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Speaker 1: brain ter virus is good weird names. Here's a wonderful

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Speaker 1: Fast Company article on John written by a guy named

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Speaker 1: Jeff wise quote. Seeking an opportunity, he picked the virus

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Speaker 1: apart and figured out how to defeat it. Then he

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Speaker 1: built a program called virus Scan that could detect him

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Speaker 1: disarm multiple threats automatically. The program, the first commercial antivirus software,

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Speaker 1: was an impressive achievement, but it's what he did next

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Speaker 1: that was true genius. See John didn't start selling his

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Speaker 1: anti virus instantly. He started giving it away. He just

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Speaker 1: put it out there for any company to use. And

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Speaker 1: this was an early enough era that nobody else was

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Speaker 1: doing this, So all these companies that had just now

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Speaker 1: learned and like viruses were a problem. Some ceo wakes

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Speaker 1: up in the morning season news store and he's like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, we have ten thousand computers. He learns

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Speaker 1: there's a free program. So all these companies start downloading

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Speaker 1: John's free program to give him a free sample. You

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Speaker 1: get him that he's doing the same thing the drug

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Speaker 1: dealers do. Yeah, he's also doing the same thing he

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Speaker 1: did with him Damn magazine. Yeah, you get a free subscription.

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Speaker 1: Yeah it's free. It's free, buddy. Yeah. In no time,

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Speaker 1: he had like thirty million people like using his software,

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Speaker 1: and within a couple of years, half of the fortune

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Speaker 1: five hundred companies used McAfee any virus software. So we

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Speaker 1: started McAfee Associates out of his small home in Santa Clara,

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Speaker 1: and he eventually started offering licenses to these companies, and

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Speaker 1: because they were big companies, they wanted the security of

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Speaker 1: knowing this isn't just a free product. We're like paying

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Speaker 1: a company to maintain our stuff and make sure. So

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Speaker 1: he kind of went seamlessly from free product to making

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Speaker 1: millions and millions of dollars. He became the world's biggest

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Speaker 1: evangelist of the apocalyptic dangers of computer viruses. He started

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Speaker 1: showing up on television invented is that, No, this is

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Speaker 1: this is prior to that. We're talking like the late eighties. Yeah, yea,

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Speaker 1: so he would he would just show up. But he

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Speaker 1: was one of the first guys showing up on TV

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Speaker 1: and like daily news programs talking about viruses. Yeah, scaring

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Speaker 1: us about this virus is going to do this. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna do this. And in nineteen eighty nine he wrote

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Speaker 1: a book called Computer Viruses, Worms, data diddlers, killer programs

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Speaker 1: and other Threats to your system. There's a lot of threats.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot of threats. All this did well enough

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Speaker 1: that by nineteen ninety he was making five million dollars

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Speaker 1: a year off of his anti virus business. Pretty great.

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Speaker 1: My nineteen one, Far away from John McAfee in the

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Speaker 1: fabled land of Australia, another anti virus expert named Roger

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Speaker 1: Reordan discovered a unique new virus coded to deliver a

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Speaker 1: debilitating injection of code. On March six, Code that would

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Speaker 1: wipe out all infected computers discovered or create. No, he discovered.

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Speaker 1: I mean he he was a researcher. I haven't. I

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Speaker 1: haven't run in any Yeah, like he's it was his

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Speaker 1: job was looking at stuff. This guy is not the scammers,

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Speaker 1: the scams coming in us. Maybe he was. I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't know anything about that. I'm also suspect of him,

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Speaker 1: But go ahead, because he's the Australian lazy. Listen, you

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Speaker 1: never know what's going on down under exactly because it's

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Speaker 1: down under, so you can't see it. That's what makes

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Speaker 1: them so shady. Anyway. Yeah, uh so Reordan named this

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Speaker 1: virus he had found Michael Angelo, not because it was

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Speaker 1: a work of art, but because March sixth was Michael

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Speaker 1: Angelo's birthday. Now, the Michael Angelo virus was not actually

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Speaker 1: a big deal. It had a bunch of flaws that

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Speaker 1: made it not super dangerous. It hadn't been coded well,

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Speaker 1: so left to its own devices, it would have made

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Speaker 1: almost no impact. But John McAfee read about this virus

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Speaker 1: and he knew that there his potential in just its name.

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Speaker 1: Because Michael Angelo. That's like a Hollywood virus. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a very sexy virus. Yeah, you can imagine someone

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Speaker 1: explaining that virus to like Bruce Willis and then having

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Speaker 1: to go punch people to stop it. Right, Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: exactly what it is. It's just Bruce Bis or Liam

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Speaker 1: Neeson nick chopping people neck chopping for a whole movie. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you got a solid ninety minutes out of that five

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Speaker 1: or six secrets. Probably never shoots anyone, Okay, he beats

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Speaker 1: everyone's ass individually. No, he's guns aren't allowed in his

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Speaker 1: hands because you know, I had half of like a

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Speaker 1: Chuck Norris style joke there, and I just lost it.

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Speaker 1: Lazy damn. That's a solid Chuck Norris style joke, though,

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Speaker 1: Yeah you could. You've got the pieces. Yeah, someone ad

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Speaker 1: put it together tweet it to us. Yeah. So John

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Speaker 1: McAfee started claiming, based on nothing really, that the Michael

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Speaker 1: Angelo virus was going to disabled five million PCs when

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Speaker 1: it started, and that was a lot of in the nineties, right, right.

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Speaker 1: Isn't this like the era where the computers look like

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Speaker 1: a ghosts, where like it was like green, Yeah, everything's

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Speaker 1: green and there's like giant the monitors. Way more than

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Speaker 1: our television student told us any thing about virus expecting

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Speaker 1: but you're gonna tell me. Patrick Swayzy and the Ghost

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Speaker 1: we really go come back and active ship hand in

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Speaker 1: it could strangle you from your monitor. Whoopie Goldberg said,

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Speaker 1: Win Dangerer. This was right around the time that Whoopi

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Speaker 1: Goldberg started that movie next to a fake Tyrannosaurus where

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Speaker 1: they were both cops. Great moment in pop culture history.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people forget that movie, but they shouldn't.

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Speaker 1: It was called Teddy Rex and it was amazing. Kidding, No,

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Speaker 1: it's a real movie. It's a real movie. It was

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Speaker 1: somewhere sometime in the nice anyway. Yeah, as you just said, uh,

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Speaker 1: this was in the early nineties. Nobody knew anything about

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Speaker 1: computers or viruses and stuff, so everyone just kind of

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Speaker 1: like took McAfee's word for this. He was on TV.

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Speaker 1: He was on TV. He was like the nation's number

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Speaker 1: one viru antivirus expert. That's what people had called him,

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Speaker 1: just because nobody else was talking talking about it, because

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Speaker 1: he was the only he was the only one. Imagine

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Speaker 1: getting to just be the expert by deepa because nobody else.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's amazing. That's the best way to make

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Speaker 1: a shipload of money. Yeah, and yeah he uh, he

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Speaker 1: nailed it right place at the right time. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: read a quote from a two thousand twelve article from

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Speaker 1: the website Naked Security. Thousands of PCs could crash by Friday,

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Speaker 1: screamed USA Today. Deadly virus set to wreak havoc tomorrow

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Speaker 1: was a headline in the Washington Post. Meanwhile, the Los

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Speaker 1: Angeles Times declared painted scary. So this is how like

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Speaker 1: everybody's covering this thing. Like John McAfee talks up the

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Speaker 1: Michaelangelo virus and then everybody's freaking out about how it's

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Speaker 1: going to disable all these computers and crash the economy.

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Speaker 1: CNN sent a film crew to McAfee's offices because they

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Speaker 1: wanted to like them us. They were hoping that like

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Speaker 1: they'd be getting thousands of calls and everybody running around

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Speaker 1: typing and yeah, I hope that McAfee hired crisis actors. Uh,

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Speaker 1: he actually kind of did. Oh, not quite that, but

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Speaker 1: he released a special anti virus program built solely around

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Speaker 1: Michael Angelo. But since it was actually really easy to

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Speaker 1: scan for this virus, he made the program scan a

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Speaker 1: bunch of unnecessary files, so it took like ten times

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Speaker 1: longer than it needed to because he wanted them to

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Speaker 1: feel like it was Yeah, maybe I got it's taken

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Speaker 1: so long. So McAfee had initially claimed, as I said,

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Speaker 1: that the virus had hit as many as five million

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Speaker 1: machines um. The estimate went down to one million by

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Speaker 1: like March second Nino, and then a couple of days

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Speaker 1: later it was any McAfee said it was anywhere between

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand and five million computers. So he starts revising

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Speaker 1: down the estimates. People by his product. Yeah, exactly, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's it was a grift um. And you know,

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Speaker 1: when Michael Angelo actually activated, there was only very few computers,

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Speaker 1: like like I think a few hundred, maybe a couple

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Speaker 1: of thousand, but like not a significant number got hit.

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Speaker 1: It didn't really do any damage. But that didn't actually

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Speaker 1: matter because John McAfee had succeeded in drumming up enough

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Speaker 1: fear about viruses that every major company had to have

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Speaker 1: anti virus software on its computers, and they all wound

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Speaker 1: up using McAfee because he was the guy talking about

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Speaker 1: this ship. In October of nineteen two, his company went

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Speaker 1: public and raised forty two million dollars in its first round.

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Speaker 1: By nine, McAfee's personality and showmanship had made the adults

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Speaker 1: in the room decide to edge him out of his

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Speaker 1: own company. He left, cashed out his stock and wound

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Speaker 1: up with around a hundred million dollars. Personality and showmanship,

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Speaker 1: so he was coked up and drunk acting a fool. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are apparently sex contests in the office and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. Sex contest, people sucking on desks, like fucking

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Speaker 1: on desk. I hope you can imagine me a soldier

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Speaker 1: boy right now. Like contests? What that's how you know?

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Speaker 1: You really while in network? Like yeah, yeah, if there's

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Speaker 1: a sex contest at your anti virus company, your anti

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Speaker 1: virus company, irony of that, Like a lot of people

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Speaker 1: got clamity at the anti virus company. Anti virus company.

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Speaker 1: I thought you were going to anti I was company. Yeah,

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00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 1: but it was some sex contest. I'm kidding, I don't virus.

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00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:09,920
Speaker 1: But it was clearly one of those things where the

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Speaker 1: company was when it was suddenly when it was worth

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Speaker 1: a huge amount of money, and like a lot of

390
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Speaker 1: companies relying on it. The adults that God brought in

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Speaker 1: were like this guy is a fucking nut. We can't

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Speaker 1: we can't have them running this business. Let's when other

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Speaker 1: people have money involved, and it's like, Okay, come on back,

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Speaker 1: little you're crazy, you're a huge lie, you're a gigantic problem.

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Speaker 1: You're not even doing miles. You're gonna commit felonies. We

396
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 1: can't have you around here like you're doing kinds of

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Speaker 1: crimes where other people got to go to jail with you.

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Speaker 1: You know, you do a Trump level cross where it's

399
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Speaker 1: like a whole consortition with people who got to go

400
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Speaker 1: to jail at the same time. Yeah, So McAfee's out.

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Speaker 1: He was forty seven years old with you know, we're

402
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Speaker 1: effectively unlimited resources. And so he immediately spent twenty five

403
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Speaker 1: million dollars buying a two and eighty acre compound in

404
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Speaker 1: Colorado and a ten thousand square foot mansion. So McAfee's

405
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,120
Speaker 1: out of his company, he's rich, and he has beginning

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Speaker 1: the next stage of his life. And we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: into what comes next. But first, lazy, are you a

408
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 1: fan of products? Oh, you don't, I love products? You

409
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,120
Speaker 1: like a service or two over now? And then absolutely,

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00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,199
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of both. And we've got a

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Speaker 1: great list of products and or services for the ears.

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Speaker 1: The people listen, and we're back. Uh, we just got

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Speaker 1: into some products and services. And now we are talking

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Speaker 1: again about John McAfee at this part in our story,

415
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Speaker 1: has bought himself a gigantic mansion, uh and is now

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Speaker 1: getting really into yoga. Um. So that's the thing he

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Speaker 1: does first after he after he gets out of this

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Speaker 1: you know company he built, as he buys a mansion

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Speaker 1: in Colorado and a couple hundred acres of land, and

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Speaker 1: he starts at yoga retreat. Okay, how does cocaine and

421
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,719
Speaker 1: yoga work together? He's not doing cokey, He's sober at

422
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,159
Speaker 1: this and that may be true at this point in

423
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 1: the story. He may actually still be sober. I'm inclined

424
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,880
Speaker 1: to believe it. Yeah, because yoga doesn't seem like relaxing. Yeah,

425
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: you know, cocaine, al right, guys, not mistake alright, guys,

426
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 1: we're getting Yeah, I feel like that's too intense. Okay, cool,

427
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 1: I'll believe you. McAfee. Yeh. He got really into yoga,

428
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 1: starts doing yoga retreats, and he also launches an app

429
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,399
Speaker 1: called pow Wow, which was a very early chat client.

430
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 1: When I read an article about it in the Register.

431
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 1: It was described as Native American themed. I don't know

432
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 1: what the hell does that mean, like the Radskins. That's

433
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,159
Speaker 1: not a good idea. I don't know. I'm not sure

434
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 1: if it was offensively done or not. The probably it

435
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 1: was the nineties, So yeah, almost about Native American themes.

436
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 1: Sounds like it's not offensive. Something really bad. It was

437
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 1: African American themes. Yeah, I'll get it right, chicken watermelon

438
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,120
Speaker 1: Like I'm black? Guys, did I say that I'm black?

439
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 1: I can say that. Yeah, that doesn't sound good. That

440
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,439
Speaker 1: sounds bad, especially since John McAfee is a guy with

441
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 1: very prominent tribal tattoos on both of his own Is

442
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: he native? A man can know he is? He is

443
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 1: as white a man as it gets. His last names

444
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 1: McAfee a tribe. That it was a cute out of

445
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 1: water buffalo. Si, now I'm going to help. Yeah, this

446
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: doesn't sound good. So he has an app. He has

447
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: an app. Some people say that it was ahead of

448
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 1: its time. It was like a chat client like aim.

449
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,479
Speaker 1: You know, if those of you who are old enough

450
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: to have used all instant Messenger or like skype Chat

451
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 1: or whatever. But before anyone else was doing a chat client. Um.

452
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 1: It didn't clearly went out and dominate the market, but

453
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 1: he was able to sell the venture for like seventeen

454
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: million dollars before Aim and Skype you came into it,

455
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 1: so he made more money. He did good, But he

456
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: decided this was all of the business he wanted to

457
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,880
Speaker 1: be into for the rest of his life. After selling

458
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 1: Pow Wow, he vowed to devote himself to quote the

459
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 1: opposite of the business world. What are you both laughing at? Um?

460
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: Sophie just sent me a picture of John McAfee. Well good,

461
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 1: he looks like if Richard Branson did more drugs than

462
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 1: Richard Branson does. Yeah, like if Richard Branson was in

463
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,640
Speaker 1: a motorcycle gang and then for some reason was stranded

464
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 1: on the island and lost a bunch of weight. Yeah.

465
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: So of pictures of John McAfee, he's shirtless, and in

466
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: fift of those pictures he's armed. He has a tie

467
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 1: on in this where are we going? And it will

468
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: often be shirtless with a gun strapped around his chest. O. God,

469
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: John McAfee, all right, he's not that man yet right now.

470
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 1: He's the recent he's yoga, he's a Native American. He's

471
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: just decided he's tired of business. He wants to be

472
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: into the opposite of the business world for the rest

473
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: of his life. So he starts teaching yoga, and he

474
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: wrote like four books on yoga, which I haven't been

475
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: able to read yet. I read some reviews of them,

476
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 1: and they seem like they were pretty normal for the

477
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 1: most part, if you're like into that kind of stuff

478
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 1: for books from a yoga A ton of white dudes

479
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 1: have written yoga book that's true, and I don't buy them. Yeah, no,

480
00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,719
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying i'd buy them, but like

481
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: none of the reviews are like he's talking about fucking

482
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: aliens or anything. Like the people who buy it like

483
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: they're in the they want that. Yeah, apparently one of

484
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: them does talk about time travel, telepathy, and levitation. So

485
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: it is possible that John McAfee believes or believed at

486
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:15,959
Speaker 1: one point that he could read minds. If I had

487
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: that much money, I would think I could. Why not, Sure,

488
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 1: I can see that leading you into some wild places,

489
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: which that's what the story is about. So that kind

490
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 1: of thing spiraled until the compound had turned into like

491
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 1: a really active yogur retreat, and John McAfee decided that

492
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,959
Speaker 1: that was too much work, so he kind of pieced

493
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: the funk out. So in August two thousand two, on

494
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: a flight to Kathman do John McAfee read an article

495
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: about a device called a trike. Now, trikes are basically

496
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: motorcycles attached to small planes. They can travel it around

497
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: a hundred miles an hour and zip along at just

498
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty feet above the ground. McAfee was enchanted

499
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: by this idea. He started going out to New Mexico

500
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 1: learning how to fly by jaunting from airport to airport.

501
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: And this is like his new rich man hobby that

502
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: he fucking falls in love this, so like, fuck, yo,

503
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: a fun Colorado, I'm gonna I'm gonna fly around in

504
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: these weird little motorcycle planes. Yeah. So in two thousand

505
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: and three he bought a tricked out cheap and he

506
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 1: and his girlfriend, who was like in her mid twenties

507
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: at this point, and he's like fifties. He was like

508
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: late forties. Ok. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's not like criminal,

509
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 1: but it's like kind of what you'd expect from a

510
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: forty seven year old guy with a hundred million dollars

511
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: you're going to you're gonna start dating four year old? Yeah, whatever,

512
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: you're doing what a million other guys who got rich

513
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: of done. Um. Yeah. So he and his girlfriends start

514
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: like driving around in a jeep looking for beautiful landmarks

515
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: in the desert to build rudimentary airports on. They decided,

516
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: like the real problem with these strikes is that you

517
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: had to have air strips to land in, so like

518
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: you couldn't really go anywhere that pretty because they didn't

519
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 1: have like crazy range, so you just have to fly

520
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: from one town's airport to the next. Nobody wants to

521
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 1: do that. So they started like finding all these beauties.

522
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: Want the black plane there. No, he wanted to like

523
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: fly around canyons in the middle of the high desert

524
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: and stuff. So he like made all these airstrips in

525
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: the middle of the desert. He bought hundreds of acres

526
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,360
Speaker 1: of land and made a bunch of like a network

527
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: of airstrips, and like the idea was to turn arrow Trekking,

528
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: which he is, like the name he coined for the sport,

529
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: into like a badass extreme sport where people would have

530
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 1: adventures in like the wild desert, flying from these isolated

531
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: little airstrip to airstrip and like this network, he don't

532
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: made that possible. So when he talked to the Wall

533
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: Street Journal, McAfee explained, my personality is such that I

534
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 1: can't do something halfway, which you know that's true. He

535
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: follows through. Uh. In two thousand four, John McAfee founded

536
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: The Sky Gypsy's who basically served why is he always

537
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: uses some problematic terminology? Mercy had the Native American app

538
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: not at the sky Jersey like what el does he

539
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: go come out with? Okay, have like the inWORD boat,

540
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: like what is happening? Yeah? I mean he doesn't include

541
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: groups of people into these sales. No, don't point at

542
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: me like that. This this story Lacy ends with both

543
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: a boat and racism, but not quite that way. I

544
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: have not read this guy's I have no idea what's happening.

545
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: I'm so upset that I'm guessing. I guess because my

546
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: scammera brain. I understand. Yeah, but I will say, shout

547
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: out to the gold digger. I'm not going to gonna

548
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: call her a gold digger. Maybe she wasn't golled digger,

549
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: but I don't give I don't get super hot for

550
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: like old dudes. But if they got money, you sexy now.

551
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: But she's out here riding around in the desert with

552
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: this phone normally just got a nice dinners and they

553
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: take you on vacation. Like she wasn't really loved him.

554
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 1: I think she yeah, And it seems like she was

555
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: having a like they seem to have had like a

556
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: good time for a while. It seems like it was

557
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: one of those things where she was like, Yeah, I'll

558
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: go have adventures in the desert for for you. That

559
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: sounds great. I feel like I would come update. That's

560
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: sound like some Scott Peterson type don't come back from

561
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: those no thanks, And a couple of people do come

562
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: up dead on the John okay, but not her, not her. Yeah.

563
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,479
Speaker 1: The sky Gypsies were all Arrow trekkers too. They were

564
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: a mix of other rich people McAfee liked and random

565
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: strangers he plucked out of obscurity and gave a role

566
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: in his weird flying club. He bought an enormous house

567
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: with several hangars in rural New met to Go and

568
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: filled it with vintage automobiles he and his friends could

569
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: off road in. Uh. The sky Gypseys grew to two

570
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: hundred members, each playing between five hundred and two hundred

571
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: and seventy thousand dollars a year for the right to

572
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: hang out with John and fly baby plane. So like

573
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: some of them were like random people would read about

574
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: him and like travel to his compound, and especially if

575
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: they were a young woman, he'd be like, sure, we'll

576
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: just train you how to fly and it's free. And

577
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: then some of them were like his millionaire friends, where

578
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: you know, they'd pay a shipload of money. But so

579
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: this was like the fire festival but would like bike planes. Well,

580
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,719
Speaker 1: but they actually did it years. Yeah, yeah, Like it

581
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: wasn't like it was a real thing. Like they built

582
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: this network of run and runways and they flew around

583
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: round for years. So like it's not a total skin. Yeah,

584
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: it's not a skin yeah. Um. And it's like it's

585
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: one of those things he was charging them because there's

586
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: upkeep on the runways, which I'm sure there is. Yeah. Absolutely.

587
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: So here's how the Wall Street Journal described John McAfee's

588
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: life at this time. Quote from May through October, when

589
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: winds and temperatures are most favorable, as many as a

590
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty pilots in their aircraft des send on Roado,

591
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: which is where his compound was, and other airports, and

592
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: stay for weeks at a time. At night, Mr McAfee

593
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: and his compadres, some of whom are retired engineers, physicians,

594
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: and fellow multimillionaires, often gathered before the large television set

595
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: on his villa's patio to watch a selection of the

596
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: six thousand DVDs in his personal library. One night, a

597
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: group of gypsies, including Mr McAfee, decided they wanted tattoos.

598
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: They drove a hundred sixty miles to a Seedee parlor

599
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: and festoon themselves with tattoos of the ornate Celtic wing

600
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: the sky Gypsy's adopted as their logo. The group's quirky

601
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: website describes Mr McAfee and his twenty seven year old

602
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: girlfriend as John and Jin, two derelicts who didn't lose

603
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: their last names, but have never divulged them. We don't

604
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: have a clue about them, it adds, So that's how

605
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: all this has been built. At the time, it's fun,

606
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: it's carefree, which is all sound like sobriety. It sounds

607
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: like what a guy who loves being wasted and then

608
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: knows he can't do that anymore because they'll kill himself.

609
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: But has unlimited money does instead of drugs. I'm just

610
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna just gonna spend all day flying in

611
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: planes as fast as I can, Yeah, to get that thrill,

612
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: and like John and Gin, keep a bunch of people

613
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: around me. So I yeah, okay. You know, if you're

614
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: the kind of person who has a huge drug problem,

615
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: you're always that kind of person. You just got to

616
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: find something to throw yourself into. And that's and this

617
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: is I mean, this is healthier than cocaine. Yeah, so

618
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: far it's whatever. You know, he's not a monster yet,

619
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: He's just not you know what. This is just weird,

620
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: but it's like rich people weird. So far, this is

621
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: the story of a scammer who cashed out and then

622
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: did something cool other than the cultural appropriation. But I

623
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 1: problem with flying around on the Celtic thing like so

624
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: you'll just want to got some symbols. I don't know

625
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: what these mean. McAfee is I'm sure I think that

626
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: part is probably not like maybe he's probably Scott's irish.

627
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess emails anything about mom came from me, McAfee.

628
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: That one sounds Okay, yeah, you can have a Celtic

629
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: wing if you get a Mac in your name, right right.

630
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: As cool and extreme as John's life was, that battitude

631
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: accusing the word man, I haven't gotten to use that

632
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: since the nineties was not without cost to steal. An

633
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: incredible sentence from Digital Trends writer Andrew Coots quote the

634
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: sky Gypsy's would later prove to be one of McAfee's

635
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: various downfalls. Hell of a sentence. Sky Gypsies just sounds

636
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: like it couldn't fail. Yeah, it sounds like how could

637
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: this go wrong. Near the end of two thousand six,

638
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: McAfee's twenty one year old nephew, Joe Biddow, the head

639
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: of the sky Gypsy's flight school, went up on a

640
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: training flight with an aspiring Gypsy named Robert Gibson. Mr.

641
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: Oh Yeah, dangerous nepotism. Mr Gibson was sixty one years old,

642
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: roughly the same age as John McAfee, and newly retired.

643
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: Like John, he decided that aerotrekking was a great way

644
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: to spend his golden years. There was only one problem,

645
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: and it was that Joel, ostensibly the head trainer, only

646
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: had a sport pilot certificate, not an actual pilot's license. Now,

647
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 1: Fast Company interviewed an f A spokesperson about this, who said, quote,

648
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: someone with a sport pilot certificate cannot be paid for

649
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: providing instruction, So legally this is a little bit of

650
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: a gray area. You're not specifically banned from teaching people

651
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: how to fly. You've got a sport pilot certificate which

652
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: can't be paid to It can't be your job, which

653
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: means that we can't trust because we can't trust that

654
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:13,959
Speaker 1: you know what you're doing, so you can't like, if

655
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: you want to teach your friend how to fly, we

656
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: can't stop you. But like you can't be the head

657
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: of a flight school, right right, right, Like I can

658
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: do my friends here at home, but I can't open

659
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: the salon. And or your your uncle can't hire you

660
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: to run his desert flight school. We hire steaks and that,

661
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: Like you're teaching me about to fly and you don't

662
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: know how to fly yourself, right, Yeah, so he's also

663
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: a scammer. Runs in the family, shout out to them. Yeah.

664
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: So these two guys, Joe Bitto and Robert Gibson go

665
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 1: out flying and they wind up flying through a box

666
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: canyon which is apparently the most dangerous thing to fly

667
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,959
Speaker 1: through because there's very little and he crashes and they

668
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: both die horribly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So the Fast Company

669
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: article goes into more detail about McAfee's reaction to the

670
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: death of both his nephew. In an innocent grandpa quote.

671
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: After the accident, McAfee says he struggled to understand how

672
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: it could have happened. He speculate, how could putting an

673
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: untrained man in charge of a pilot school. Okay, cool,

674
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: so he didn't know how to fly plane, but still

675
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: basically McAfee like positive that the old guy had been

676
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: sick and had had had a heart attack during the

677
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: flight and had like fallen onto the kite's wing. So

678
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: he hadn't made up a whole he just he just lies. No, dude,

679
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 1: you're you're untrained nephew got them both killed. Yeah, And

680
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: isn't that the plot to that one book? What's that

681
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: book called? Don't you know what? The pilot has a

682
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: heart attack and then the kid is out with an

683
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: axe the hatchet, Hatchet, that's the plot of the Hatchet.

684
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: That is kind of the plot of Hatchet, except for

685
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: the kid is the guy flying and dies right, He

686
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: was like, how can I spend this? Um? Yeah, he

687
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: had a heart attack anyway. Quote. To honor Beto's memory,

688
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: McAfee had the image of a single tear drop added

689
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: below his sky Chipsy's tattooed. Yeah, so he murdered his nephew.

690
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: Is that what he's trying to murder? Murder? I'll say

691
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: that that's a fair that that part's not appropriation. You

692
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: did kill two guys, carry on. In an interview later,

693
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: McAfee said, quote, aero tricking can create an avenue for

694
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: self awareness. He told me seven months after Biddoh and

695
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: Gilson died, you find self awareness by breaking boundaries, breaking taboos.

696
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 1: Do you think you'll ever get bored of this too,

697
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: I asked, I anticipate that happening, he said. It doesn't

698
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: worry me at all. The seven months after he gets

699
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: two people killed, he's already sputted into something optimism. It's

700
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: just whatever. Yeah, you know, people dies sometimes theyr nephew, Yes,

701
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: sometimes they're your nephew. Sometimes they're your nephew for your

702
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: unregistered flight school. That's just the way it goes. In

703
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: two thousand nine, the housing market crashed and the rest

704
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: of the economy followed soon after two eight Actually, the

705
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: arrest of the economy followed soon after. For brief time,

706
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,879
Speaker 1: hack journalists did a brisk business writing articles about former

707
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: industry titans who had also lost a lot of money

708
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 1: in the crash. Perhaps the most prominent of these was

709
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 1: John McAfee. Here's an exerpt from an ABC News article

710
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 1: at the time titled anti virus software pioneer gets a

711
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: dose of reality quote. Like many wealthy Americans, McAfee was

712
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,240
Speaker 1: hit hard with the simultaneous collapse of real estate stocks

713
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: in Wall Street investment banks. But he got whacked more

714
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: than most, since much of his fortune was tied up

715
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: in luxury properties. Oddly enough, when real estate markets crash,

716
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: it's the higher end properties that crashed most, simply because

717
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: they're not necessities. He said, My father always said real estate.

718
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: You can't lose in real estate. You know, oddly enough

719
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: you can. So yeah. He he put his property in

720
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: New Mexico up for auction, sold his property in Colorado.

721
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: Various sources I found say he was claiming his wealth

722
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 1: had been reduced to less than ten million dollars, sometimes

723
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: less than five million. Wow. Yeah, McAfee sold everything and

724
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: later in two thousand nine, he moved to Belize. So

725
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: was he not making any money off of fly airbikes?

726
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: That was all a scam. Rumors started floating in the

727
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 1: air show circuit that he had moved to Belize in

728
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: been in all of these articles about how he lost

729
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: his fortune in order to hide the fact that he

730
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: still had most of his money um and move his assets,

731
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: you know, out of the country into movies. So he

732
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 1: gets he gets on the news and he was like, yeah,

733
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: you know, I lost all my money. I lost all

734
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: my money at a YadA YadA. But really he's just

735
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: shoving stuff over to Belize because he knows that like

736
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: the family of this guy who died at his flight schools, yeah,

737
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: shout out to him. He was like, this disparaging article,

738
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: I'll take it. He was like, yeah, we're cold. This

739
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: is gonna work out great. Yeah. Yeah. In the years

740
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: since the crash, John McAfee has repeatedly and openly claimed

741
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: that these stories about the collapse of his fortune were

742
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: all lies, told to protect himself from the many frivolous

743
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 1: lawsuits against him. In two thousand seventeen, he told ABC

744
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: News in a in an interview, quote I've had two

745
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: hundred lawsuits in my life because my name is John McAfee. No,

746
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: I didn't lose everything. I wanted to stop people from

747
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 1: trying to sue me. So John didn't move to Belize alone.

748
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: He brought along a small entourage, including some of his

749
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: sky gypsies and his long term girlfriend, Jennifer Irwin. Wired

750
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 1: talked to her around this time. Quote John has always

751
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 1: been searching for something, says Jennifer Irwin. She remembers him

752
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: telling her once that he was trying to reach the

753
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: expansive horizon, but that expansive horizon seemed to be rushing

754
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: away from John. He was in his early sixties now,

755
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: his negligence had ruined his weird airplane club, and he

756
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: was hiding his assets from a multitude of lawsuits. To

757
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: make all that even worse, he was getting old. John

758
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: seems to be one of those people who has always

759
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 1: just been sort of naturally robust. He has a high

760
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: tolerance for substances. He probably recovers quickly when he has

761
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 1: a drug binge. He seems to have a fast metabolism

762
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 1: that all aided him during his twenty years of being

763
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,399
Speaker 1: a rich adventure junkie but vitality only lasts so long

764
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: without chemical assistance. So John McAfee started injecting his butt

765
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 1: with testosterone twice a month. He moved into a beachside

766
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: mansion and belize at an expat heavy community called ambergris K.

767
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: There he launched a cigar company, coffee company, and a

768
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: water taxi company. He claimed he was basically handing the

769
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: business to locals for free, but it's just as likely

770
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: that this was part of some scheme to hide his money. Now.

771
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: He also took up a hobby of lying about himself

772
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 1: on the Internet. During this time, he would claim to

773
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: live in different countries than he did. He would put

774
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: up false Facebook posts to make it look like he

775
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: was building houses and countries where he didn't reside. That

776
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: sort of thing. Jeff Wise wrote about this quote. Like

777
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 1: many of McAfee's pranks, these gags are both fun and purposeful.

778
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 1: There are, he mentions, five civil lawsuits against him currently

779
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: pending in the United States. That's how it is in

780
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: the States, He says, if people know you have money,

781
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: they'll sue you, and his Facebook sham was just a

782
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 1: harmless game of cat and mouse. The judge in one

783
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,320
Speaker 1: case he couldn't understand why I would put incorrect information

784
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: about myself on the web. He says, I told him

785
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: when I put that up, I wasn't under oath. He

786
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: asked me why I would do such a thing. I said,

787
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 1: I thought that if somebody wanted to serve me papers,

788
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: it would be much more enjoyable for everyone involved if

789
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: they tried to serve those papers to me and Honduras.

790
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: So John McAfee moves to the lice just starts lying

791
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 1: about himself to everyone he can, every journalist you can.

792
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: And around this time he starts claiming in another interview

793
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: that he started a business that's like rich people paying

794
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: to watch other people do yoga, because he claims that

795
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: studies show that you've gained benefits from exercise by watching

796
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: people exercise. So he tells that to a journalist. But

797
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: it's all just a lie, like he's just lying to

798
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: reporters all the time, like this is a great plan. Yeah,

799
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: we don't know where he lives, I don't know if

800
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 1: he's got money. He's just lying to everyone about everything

801
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: about him. And if you're going to do the things

802
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: that John McAfee is about to do, it helps to

803
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: shoot some chaff out into it. Maybe that's why I

804
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: had a long game here. Yeah, it's the long game.

805
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: And if you're playing the long game, listener, then you

806
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: might want some of the fine products and or services

807
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: that support this podcast and or program. And we're back.

808
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: We're talking about John McAfee, who has just moved to

809
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: Billy's uh in two thousand ten. During his second year there,

810
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: he met a young doctor named Allison at Anisio. Here's

811
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: how she described her journey to Jeff Wise. When I

812
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: turned to their I cried on paper. Everyone envied me.

813
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: I just bought a house, I had a partner in

814
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,359
Speaker 1: a job at Harvard. I just gotten a grant from

815
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: the National Institutes of Health for a three year research program.

816
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,359
Speaker 1: I realized that the prospect of spending another three years

817
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,720
Speaker 1: in the lab was incredibly depressing. So I wrote a

818
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: letter to a bunch of resorts and Belize, asking if

819
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:16,720
Speaker 1: I could come down at work and play my guitar.

820
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: So this young woman who just finishes getting her medical

821
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: degree flies down to Belize. Just been like a year

822
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: playing guitar, chilling out and like living, having having fun.

823
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: Before so envious of these lots, And then I was

824
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: just like, I don't want to go somewhere and play

825
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,439
Speaker 1: my guitar. I want to fly an air or bike,

826
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: Like what the fun is? Kind of lives? Are these

827
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: here talking and pay my bills? Every guy damn day

828
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: I had flying on AirBike and playing no damn guitar.

829
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,879
Speaker 1: And then also the people that McAfee took with him

830
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 1: to Brazil's like, hey, y'all, y'all want to just come

831
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: live in in Belize. I think their job was just

832
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: being part of his entourage, Like they were just a

833
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,959
Speaker 1: millionaire's ontour. I shouldn't. That's your gig. That's a solid employment. Well,

834
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: and and Allison found what she thought was solid employment

835
00:41:58,040 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: this way. So she winds up playing guitar at a

836
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: are where McAfee is and he starts talking to her, uh,

837
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: and she talks to him about like the research that

838
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: she wants to do and like what she's gonna do

839
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: when she goes back home. And the research she was

840
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: doing wasn't something called quorum testing. So it's like a

841
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: way to fight bacteria without using antibiotics. It's like other

842
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: kinds of substances that they don't kill bacteria, but they

843
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 1: reprogrammed them so they're not dangerous. So this is the

844
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 1: research Allison wanted to get into, right, So she tells

845
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: McAfee about all this, and he's like, hell, i'll fund

846
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 1: your research. I'm a crazy millionaire out here because she's

847
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 1: talking about like how oh yeah, they find a lot

848
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: of these chemicals and like plants and stuff, like jungle plants.

849
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: There's a lot of different medicines in them. And he's like,

850
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: it's great, that's great, I'll give you a bunch of money.

851
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: You'll find medicine out here. So yeah, that John McAfee

852
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 1: hires this doctor Lady side unseen and decides he's going

853
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: to get into the business of making medicine. Yeah, why

854
00:42:49,680 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 1: not other business trains, planes, autoimmune diseases. Yeah, it's the

855
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 1: natural evolution of what he's into. So funding Allison's research

856
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: quickly turned into John McAfee buying a bunch of land

857
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: and an isolated jungle chunk of Belize, building a compound there,

858
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 1: and creating a laboratory for Dr Anonisio to work in.

859
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 1: The stated goal of this lab was to find new

860
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:24,280
Speaker 1: bacteria fighting medicines, but very quickly things started to get weird.

861
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: Oh I know, I know, it's contest weird or you

862
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: wish it was sex contest weird. M although there's some

863
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: there's some sex stuff coming up. Gosh, and I've been

864
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: to Belieze. It's like very ugly. They're yeah, and then

865
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,879
Speaker 1: belie o hell no, like the beaches are gross. There's

866
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: a lot of jungle life and plans like jungle life

867
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: and cash you plants. Is that it's trash. Don't go

868
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 1: to believe. I'm gonna say, go to beliefs. Don't just

869
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 1: don't be John McAfee. Only go if you are John McAfee.

870
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: So he creates this plant. So he creates this thing

871
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: in the jungle, this this, this, this lab in the jungle,

872
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: and he moves his doctor out there and yeah, yeah.

873
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: He starts inviting journalists over at his jungle compound to

874
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: talk about his new venture, including our friend Jeff Wise

875
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 1: at Fast Company. Now, Jeff visited in early two thousand

876
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,240
Speaker 1: and ten, and at that time most of McAfee ships

877
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: seemed to be together. So McAfee said, ship like, for

878
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: twenty years, I played around, and now I'm serious about

879
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: doing something positive. So he's trying to like, I'm gonna

880
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: you know, especially since he just got two people killed.

881
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a do a good thing here. I'm

882
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: gonna give back to the world to provide a heal

883
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 1: the planet. So there were some signs that things might

884
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: be wrong. McAfee lied to Wise and told him that

885
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: he and Dr ed Anisio had been working together for

886
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: two years when they've only been working together for seven months.

887
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: He also called her like a leading mind in the

888
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: field when she was really just starting out. Like so

889
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: he's over yeah, he oversells everything to reporters, but there

890
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: is a lab they are working on stuff. She seems

891
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: to be seriously trying to do something. Um. But during

892
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: that interview in two thousand ten, McAfee kind of like

893
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 1: suddenly dropped the information that his company mission had expanded

894
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 1: beyond making medicine to making fun drugs. So fuck drugs,

895
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: FU drugs. So the worst sex contest happening probably, I

896
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: mean between Mr McAfee and himself. He just can't stop.

897
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: He just can't stop. So he Basically the way Allison

898
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: told Jeff Wise, the journalist who's interviewing her, is that

899
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: McAfee suddenly came to her with a brainstorm that what

900
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 1: if what if we tried to find like an herbal

901
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: compound that would be a libido booster to women. Uh.

902
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: You know, then we could make a bunch of money

903
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: which we could use to fund our other research into medicine.

904
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 1: So it's just like his whole personal problem. He's like,

905
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 1: ladies are no longer aroused by me? Can you make something?

906
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: He's like using this for his own drug compact. He said,

907
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 1: can you make something that makes me sexy women? Yeah,

908
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: that might be what's going on. He was just trying

909
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: to make like Spanish fly in a lab. Yeah, it's

910
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: It's also I don't think he has much of an

911
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: attention span, so that might be part of it. It's

912
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 1: certainly part creepy, but it also might part be John

913
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: McAfee can't focus on anything from what how do we

914
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: go from saving lives to like those little pills that

915
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 1: they sell in the gas? He went from saving lives

916
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 1: to like extend what heaven? Oh yeah, that is a

917
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: really quick amount of time. Yeah. So uh. The next

918
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: major article about John McAfee was published in late two

919
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: thousand twelve by Wired's Joshua Davis. So in the two

920
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 1: years between that Fast Company article where John announces that

921
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: he's making fun drugs and it is into medicine. And

922
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, when Wired gets on on things, John's

923
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 1: condition degenerated substantially. The Wired article revealed that McAfee had

924
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: started spending increasing periods of time in an isolated town

925
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,240
Speaker 1: named Orange Walk, which was kind of near his drug

926
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: making compound. Now. In emails to friends, John described Orange

927
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: Walk as quote the asshole of the world. Uh, he

928
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: wrote in one email, quote my fragile connection with the

929
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 1: world of polite society. Had us, without a doubt, been severed,

930
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: my attire would rank me among the worst dressed Tijuana panhandlers.

931
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: My hygiene is no better. Yesterday, for the first time,

932
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: I urinated it in public in broad daylight. So John,

933
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 1: John's going through some ship. Okay, Yeah, I'm drugs catching

934
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: up or maybe it maybe drugs we will be talking

935
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:19,399
Speaker 1: about that, I mean, like the ones that he did

936
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 1: in the past. Yeah, and maybe the guilt from killing

937
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,800
Speaker 1: his nephew and that old guy. Oh you think maybe

938
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,359
Speaker 1: he has feel like he might have slept well on

939
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: that one. And just either way, for whatever reason, when

940
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: he first moves to belieze, he moves to this like

941
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: beautiful mansion on the beach, and like a really nice

942
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: part of Belize, like a resort part of town, and

943
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: he quickly leaves that to go build a compound in

944
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 1: the jungle in like a place nobody goes, like where

945
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: everybody's really poor and like it's not like a tourist spot.

946
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: So he like builds a compound in the jungle, and

947
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 1: then he leaves there to go hang out in a dirt,

948
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: poor small town and like sit around in a really

949
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: grimy bar and watch prostitutes all day and not drink.

950
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: Like that's that's what John mc ifee's life turns into

951
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: at this point. So while he's hanging out at that

952
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: bar watching prostitutes, he gets to know several prostitutes everything

953
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 1: just being a weird old guy hanging out in a

954
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 1: bar watching teenage prostitutes. So he winds up falling in

955
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 1: love with one of these teenage but of course he

956
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: does a sixteen year old girl named Imschweiler Uh, And

957
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: sixteen is the age of consent in Belize, so he's

958
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 1: not committing a crime in Belize. It's important although morally

959
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: I don't think fifty sixty year old should sixteen years,

960
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: but there's no it's not like illegal so he dumps

961
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 1: his longtime girlfriend for this sixteen year old prostitute. He

962
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: brings the prostitute im Schwilder to his compound. Uh, and

963
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:55,280
Speaker 1: then she almost murders him. According to that wild shout

964
00:48:55,320 --> 00:49:02,240
Speaker 1: out to her Schwiler, Im Schwilder and Schwilder. Yeah. According

965
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: to wired quote, she slipped out of bed and pulled McAfee,

966
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 1: Smith and Wesson out of a holster hanging from an

967
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: ancient Tibetan gong in his bedroom. Her plan, if it

968
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:10,879
Speaker 1: could be called that, was to kill him and make

969
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:12,879
Speaker 1: off with as much cash as she could scrounge up.

970
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:14,760
Speaker 1: She crept it for the foot of the bed, aimed,

971
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,399
Speaker 1: and started to pull the trigger, but at the last

972
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 1: moment she closed her eyes and the bullet went wide,

973
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 1: ripping through a pillow. I guess I didn't want to

974
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: kill the bastard, she admits. So this will not be

975
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: the last time that one of John McAfee's lovers almost

976
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: gets him murdered. Also, he's old as houses. You definitely

977
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: did not have to murder him to make off with

978
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 1: his cash. You could have just thole small amounts every day. Yeah,

979
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 1: you know, you would have been fine. I mean, maybe

980
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:38,720
Speaker 1: he's just the kind of guy you want to shoot.

981
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 1: He does seem that way. So after he moved to Belize,

982
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 1: John's old entourage gradually faded away and was replaced by

983
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: increasing numbers of young women, including the teenage m schwilder

984
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: and heavily armed belize In men with criminal backgrounds. She

985
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: became the R Kelly of Belize. Yeah, but like less

986
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 1: evil but shadier. So like R. Kelly to and hang

987
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 1: around with like convicted murderers and is always well okay, R.

988
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: R Kelly isn't constantly photographed with gang members holding guns

989
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 1: next to him, which McAfee is during this period. There's

990
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 1: always big like bullies in guys with criminal backgrounds holding

991
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: like scoped rifles standing behind him with like a pack

992
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 1: of wild dogs around him. That's every picture of John

993
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: McAfee and Belize is. He is shirtless, he's surrounded by

994
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: large belies and men holding rifles and like a gaggle

995
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 1: of teenage girls and a bunch of dogs. So it's

996
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,320
Speaker 1: like the chase of his courage. Yeah, this is the

997
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: Choppo of his career. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would. I

998
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,879
Speaker 1: would definitely say choppish, although like R. Kelly, we are

999
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: about to get into a rape allegation. So yeah, I

1000
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: mean that's not totally off base. Yeah, no, it's not

1001
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 1: shocking either. All monsters have more in common with each

1002
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 1: other than than they don't. Absolutely, I mean, this guy

1003
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: was doing sex contests, so we pretty much knew he

1004
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 1: was a deviant, you know, back in the day. I

1005
00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 1: don't even know if that's devis for all we know

1006
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 1: he has a salt and people there. Yeah, it might

1007
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: have been. I haven't heard any allegations. Yeah, there's not

1008
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 1: allegations yet. When those people were interviewed, most of them

1009
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 1: seemed to think fondly at that time, so it may

1010
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: have just been a bunch of weirdos that have enough

1011
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: fun company together. Sometimes you get the right one, sometimes

1012
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: you find the right crew. So in two thousand eleven,

1013
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 1: John McAfee was rated by the Belize and authorities on

1014
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 1: suspicion of producing meth amphetamine. According to Wired's reporting, McAfee

1015
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: initially stormed out naked wielding a handgun, but once he

1016
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 1: realized what was happening, he put down his gun and

1017
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,839
Speaker 1: went inside to get pants. He was arrested there by

1018
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: the Belize and police commandos. When he was toldly suspected

1019
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 1: him of making meth. He told them that is a

1020
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 1: startling hypothesis, sir, because I haven't sold drugs since nineteen

1021
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: eighty three. Hey, hey, it's telling the truth. Telling the truth.

1022
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 1: So the raid hauled out a bunch of guns and

1023
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 1: someone unidentified crystalline chemical John claimed was related to he

1024
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 1: and doctor at Anisio's work. But Belize tested the substance

1025
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 1: and it wasn't meth or anything else illegal. They weren't

1026
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: really sure what the hell it was. To this day,

1027
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 1: there is no conclusive answer as to what exactly John

1028
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: McAfee was making in that jungle, although in Part two

1029
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: we will talk about the best theory. It's worth noting

1030
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: that this was right around the time when John McAfee

1031
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 1: started posting on the drug forum blue Light about his

1032
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,800
Speaker 1: growing affinity for bath salts, specifically a drug called m

1033
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,279
Speaker 1: D p V. Now, if you've never done m d

1034
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: p V, how would I describe m d Too many

1035
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: letters for me, I'm not going to drug with more

1036
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: than two lettuce I love vp Q eight. That sounds

1037
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 1: like my life will never be the same. The m

1038
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 1: d p V is like if adderall hit you in

1039
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: the face before it started to work like, that's that's

1040
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: m D. It's like angry piste off adderall. That's that's

1041
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: how I described MV drugs to be angry kind of

1042
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: people who take m D p V. That's one of

1043
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 1: the face eating drugs like these are the bath salts

1044
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: everybody was talking about back then. Now, when Wired talked

1045
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: to him, McAfee claimed that all of the writing he'd

1046
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 1: done about bath salts on the internet was actually just

1047
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: another gag to stir up the waters and quote it

1048
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 1: was the most tongue in cheek thing in the fucking world.

1049
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 1: If I'm going to do drugs, I'm gonna do something

1050
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,240
Speaker 1: that I know is good. I'm gonna grab some mushrooms

1051
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: number one and maybe get some really fine cocaine. So

1052
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:14,959
Speaker 1: maybe that's true. Maybe he was lying about bath salts

1053
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: on the internet to throw over one off the case. Um,

1054
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 1: but I have read through the posts that he put

1055
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 1: up on blue Light. They're pretty intricate. John post pictures

1056
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: of lab equipment and asks for very technical advice on

1057
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 1: how to produce a drug. He seems to know a

1058
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: lot about other people in the forum who are drug chemists,

1059
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 1: like give him serious answers it's not just you know, bro,

1060
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 1: this drugs awesome talk. It's like shop talk from chemists

1061
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 1: to chemists. So maybe it's all a scam, or maybe

1062
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: him trying to make it into a scam as the scam,

1063
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 1: and John McAfee was doing a shipload of bath salts,

1064
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: it would make some of this make more sense scam

1065
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 1: because nobody asks for like, no one asks for specific

1066
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 1: detail information about making drugs. Was like, no, this is

1067
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 1: another one of my hygiene. It's not of my hys. John,

1068
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 1: You're talking for pages about how to like distill this

1069
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 1: stuff properly. I got you, suckers. You had all those pages,

1070
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:10,280
Speaker 1: didn't you know? You literally had chemicals. You had pictures

1071
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: of beakers and you're doing stuff and that. Yeah, I

1072
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 1: was trying to make Superman. Whatever. The truth about John's

1073
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: experimentation with bassalts. His behavior after this point ratches up

1074
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: to a level of intensity that I think crosses the

1075
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 1: line into madness and may in fact be the result

1076
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:29,879
Speaker 1: of drugged conjection, maybe bassaults, maybe something else. Uh, but

1077
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 1: you remember that sixteen year old prostitute he was in

1078
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: love with to shoot it, who tried to shoot him

1079
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 1: but then didn't. Well, she started telling him dire stories

1080
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 1: about a nearby town called Karmlita, which shout out to

1081
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: Warren Yvon she said was a wretched hive of scum

1082
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 1: and villainy. Basically, she starts telling him this town is

1083
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: filled with monstrous criminals who rape and torch with impunity,

1084
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 1: and it's a big like secret drug hub network and

1085
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 1: all this terrible stuff. So he kept her around after

1086
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 1: she tried to shoot him. Oh yeah, of course did

1087
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 1: he not wake up when the No, he did, and

1088
00:54:57,960 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 1: he took the gun out of her hands. But he

1089
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 1: forgave her. He was like, girl, good, he just he

1090
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 1: gave her a separate bungalow. Yeah, that's kind of this.

1091
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:10,880
Speaker 1: That's not the only time he does that. Damn, he's forgiving.

1092
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 1: He's forgiving. I'll give that to John McAfee like, oh

1093
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 1: my god, go to the guest house, give me the gun.

1094
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: Not even the second person to shoot at me today,

1095
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 1: John McAfee. So um. McAfee told Wired later quote, Carmelita

1096
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 1: was literally the Wild West. I didn't realize that two

1097
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:36,400
Speaker 1: miles away was the most corrupt village on the planet.

1098
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:39,840
Speaker 1: So McAfee says that out of concern that this teenager

1099
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 1: who tried to kill him, like was telling the truth

1100
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 1: about this dangerous town. He basically decided to become batman there.

1101
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 1: So McAfee's next big move is to start using his

1102
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 1: wealth to fight crime in the town of Carmelo. Bruce Wayne, Yeah,

1103
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 1: Bruce Wayne. So he buys a small cement house and

1104
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: hires workers to basically build a jail because the town

1105
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 1: hadn't had a jail. He calls the cops like responsible

1106
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:04,720
Speaker 1: for the area and tells them to start arresting people.

1107
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: And when the police were like, we don't really have

1108
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: any equipment to like do that with, he starts buying

1109
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 1: him sixteens boots, pepper spray stunt guns and ship like that.

1110
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 1: You could just get him handguns. John McCafe John mccafee says,

1111
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: this is serious crime going on here. I need to

1112
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:24,360
Speaker 1: be able to people. One time, some people who actually

1113
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 1: lived in the area said that McAfee basically made himself

1114
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:29,839
Speaker 1: a private army and started issuing orders to like go

1115
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 1: after people that he didn't like. And he starts he

1116
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:35,280
Speaker 1: confronts some of these people that he says are criminals

1117
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 1: with like guns in their own homes, and it's like

1118
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 1: like low key colonizing beliefs. Yeah, yeah, he's a he's

1119
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 1: a one man colonize, one man colonize and this is

1120
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 1: a poor ass like the journalist Joshu Smith. The journalist

1121
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: actually went to Carmelita to try and see, like is

1122
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 1: this a dangerous no man's land? Like did he stumble

1123
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 1: onto a real terrible place that needs fixing and he

1124
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,399
Speaker 1: just finds a poor village filled with people who had

1125
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:01,320
Speaker 1: no fucking idea? What Johnson should? I have ever heard?

1126
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 1: I have ever I don't think anybody has lived a

1127
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 1: wider white man life than John McAfee. He did everything.

1128
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 1: He did everything, all the white man everything. He started

1129
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 1: for company and based off lies, he scammed his way

1130
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 1: running for president. God shout out to him. He did.

1131
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: He taught card but he across the board, through the middle,

1132
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 1: the free space, everything. And I'm such a white guy.

1133
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 1: I didn't even realize that until you said it, Like, yeah,

1134
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 1: he did do everything that a white guy can do. Listen,

1135
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: this is what I will to say about mcaphee. You

1136
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 1: talk about take advantage of some privilege. Yes, motherfucker took

1137
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: a prandedge to the fullest extent. He squeezed all of

1138
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 1: the juice out of whiteness. They're not even mad at it.

1139
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 1: There is there is no more white privilege left in

1140
00:57:54,120 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: his privilege sponge. He dry, I'm not mad at I'm

1141
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 1: I'm really not mad at it. Uh yeah. So one

1142
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 1: of the village elders who that that journalist Joshua Smith interviewed,

1143
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: said quote, I thought he would come by, introduce himself

1144
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 1: and explain what he was doing here. But he never did.

1145
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 1: He just showed up and started telling us what to do.

1146
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,240
Speaker 1: And it worked, and it worked, and it worked well,

1147
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 1: and there was much crime to stop, but he got

1148
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 1: to play batman for a while. I don't even think

1149
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: that girl told him there was some crime there. He

1150
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: just made that up, like my girlfriend. Oh god. John. So,

1151
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: now at this point, Dr at An Eisio, who's remember

1152
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 1: still trying to make medicine here, started worrying about John McAfee.

1153
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 1: Over the months they'd worked together, she'd noticed him hiring

1154
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 1: more and more armed men. She'd also noticed that his

1155
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 1: room at the compound was filmed with literal garbage bags

1156
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: of money and boxes of viagra and other unidentified pharmaceuticals.

1157
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 1: She decided to leave the country and in two thousand twelve,

1158
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 1: when that Wired article was written, that's all anyone knew

1159
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 1: about the end of their working relationship. She just told

1160
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: Wired basically like I just I just left, you know. Uh.

1161
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: Four years later, in two thousands sixteen, Dr d Anisio

1162
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 1: talked to Annett Bernstein for a Showtime documentary on John

1163
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: mccafee's life. She gave a very different story than one

1164
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 1: that paints John McAfee not as a fun, wacky libertarian

1165
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 1: cookie character, but as a monster. And we're going to

1166
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: play an exerpt from that right now. He would talk

1167
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: about how he could have people hurt or killed, and um,

1168
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 1: you know, honestly, I was. I was scared. I planned

1169
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 1: to leave, but I needed to figure out how to

1170
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 1: do it. You know. I went to talk to him.

1171
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 1: I sat there on the couch and I and I

1172
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 1: told him everything. I said. Look, I don't I don't

1173
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 1: like what you're doing. I am not getting anywhere with

1174
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: my work. I feel undermines, and um, how I missed

1175
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 1: my family. I want to go home, and um, you know,

1176
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: had a headache. I was, I was crying so much.

1177
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 1: I I told him I had a headache, and and

1178
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:12,800
Speaker 1: he he brought me. Um. He you know, he went

1179
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 1: into the other room and he brought me two pills

1180
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 1: and a glass of orange juice, and so I took them,

1181
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 1: I you know, and I took a sip of the

1182
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 1: orange juice and it tasted foul. It tasted bitter. Um.

1183
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: Such an idiot. I remember I made a joke about

1184
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 1: not being able to get good orange juice in a

1185
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 1: place called Orange Walk, like I honestly. So, she claims

1186
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 1: that basically she blacked out after that point. Something was

1187
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 1: in the orange juice pretty clearly, and she has snatches

1188
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:00,120
Speaker 1: of memory, and one of them is John mc if

1189
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 1: he standing over her naked um. She alleges that he

1190
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 1: raped her. It seems like a pretty credible allegation. Also

1191
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 1: doesn't seem I don't have a whole lot of trouble

1192
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 1: imagining John McAfee being a rapist after everything we've talked

1193
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 1: about stockpiling BIA. So she was just trying to leave.

1194
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 1: She wass what I mean, the fact that she went

1195
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 1: off with this millionaire and to a compound to like

1196
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: try to do drug research, that was all crazy. But

1197
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 1: like this is the kind of crazy anyone you get

1198
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 1: him at the right point, with the right thing. If

1199
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 1: you're the type of person who leaves the country to

1200
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:37,680
Speaker 1: go play guitar, chances are like, yeah you would, why

1201
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 1: not taking a chance? And absolutely and she had gone, Okay,

1202
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 1: he didn't put in the money to build he said

1203
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 1: he was going to do. But like she came to

1204
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 1: you and said that she wanted to go home, Like

1205
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 1: that is just so disgusting, Like what a piece of ship.

1206
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And this is a dark and terrible note

1207
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 1: to end our first episode, but it's the note that

1208
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 1: we're gonna end on in the next episode starts with murder.

1209
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 1: So buckle up, enjoy that, Lacy. You want to plug

1210
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: your plug doubles before we uh we roll off? Damn.

1211
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: I need to dis is myself from that. Yeah, I

1212
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 1: know I should. I didn't know where to stick that,

1213
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 1: but I felt like the end. You know, Um, if

1214
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 1: you like the sentence of that poor woman is just

1215
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 1: the worst way to lead into any kind of pivot.

1216
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:31,439
Speaker 1: That poor woman. If you're looking for a bed, if

1217
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 1: you like sad no, um, yeah, but shout out to

1218
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 1: her so sad um. I'm scam God. I do love scams,

1219
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 1: but I don't hurt people. Guys, let's swear. Yeah, good

1220
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 1: nature scams. That's not me, but yeah, so look out

1221
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:48,440
Speaker 1: for my podcast Scam Goddess, and you follow me on

1222
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 1: Twitter at DVA Lacey d I V A l A

1223
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:53,280
Speaker 1: c I or on Instagram at DVA Lacey d I

1224
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 1: d A l A c I. How more updates there,

1225
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 1: And I'm Robert Evans. You can find me on Twitter

1226
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: at I Write out Kay. You can find this podcast

1227
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 1: on the internet Behind the Bastards dot com. You can

1228
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 1: find us on Instagram at Twitter at Bastards pod. You

1229
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 1: can buy T shirts, you buy cups, you can buy stickers.

1230
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,440
Speaker 1: You can buy the mummified hand of an Egyptian pharaoh,

1231
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 1: all on t public dot com, all branded UH with

1232
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards logos UH and special Mummy Fighting Witchcraft.

1233
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 1: Can buy it products