Speaker 1: Hi, everybody.
Speaker 2: Welcome to The Phillies Show with Ruben Tomorrow Junior Jim Salisbury.
Speaker 2: I am Todd Zu Lucky, a new Phillies podcast. We
Speaker 2: wanted to do this because we're such fond admirers of
Speaker 2: one another, and we just love each other's company so much,
Speaker 2: and we just respect the heck out of one another,
Speaker 2: and we just love baseball. So we put this together
Speaker 2: kind of about the last minute. Opening Day is here.
Speaker 2: It's an exciting time. So let's start with this. Guys,
Speaker 2: what does Opening Day mean to you? Do you have
Speaker 2: a favorite Opening Day memory? Something that you always kind
Speaker 2: of come back to when you when you get to
Speaker 2: this day on the calendar.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Jimmy, Well, I mean I'm sure. First of all.
Speaker 1: First of all, you know, thirty years ago, would you
Speaker 1: have said we really respect each other? I would not
Speaker 1: have said that about you, guys, I'm gonna tell you
Speaker 1: that right now. Okay, anyway, go ahead, way, Jim, Jim, respectfully,
Speaker 1: I'll turn it over to you, my friend.
Speaker 3: Driving you crazy all those years on your ass, right
Speaker 3: so you know opening Day, if baseball is your favorite sport,
Speaker 3: I mean, this is where it all starts, and baseball
Speaker 3: has been my favorite game forever. And you know, I
Speaker 3: always tell a couple of stories. One when I covered
Speaker 3: Terry Francona as manager, he he told me his mother
Speaker 3: used to let him cut school every Opening Day and
Speaker 3: go to the Pirates game because she believed Opening Day
Speaker 3: was special. And you know she was right. Opening Day
Speaker 3: is special. I remember being in grade school and these
Speaker 3: were in the years before like big tech departments. Every
Speaker 3: school had a big tech department. We had one TV
Speaker 3: in the entire elementary school and it was on this
Speaker 3: big rolling cart. And I remember being in fourth grade
Speaker 3: and my teacher saying, Hey, go down to the library
Speaker 3: and get the get the TV. We're gonna watch Opening Day,
Speaker 3: watch the Red Sox game. And I remember pushing that
Speaker 3: big cart down the hallway and bring it in. We
Speaker 3: plugged it in, used to black and white, three channels,
Speaker 3: and we watched the Red Sox game that day. And
Speaker 3: I have to say, probably my most memorable Opening day
Speaker 3: was actually a home opener. It wasn't the Phillies opener.
Speaker 3: It was their home opener in ninety four. It was
Speaker 3: my first year covering the team. The team opened up
Speaker 3: in Mile High Stadium in the snow, and then played
Speaker 3: in Denver, so they played in Denver, and then Cincinnati
Speaker 3: came home for the home opener, sixty eight thousand people
Speaker 3: at Veterans Stadium and John Cruck quite literally rolls out
Speaker 3: of a radiation treatment and laces a double to one
Speaker 3: hop double off the wall to right center. And I'll
Speaker 3: tell you what it made. The hair on my neck
Speaker 3: stand up as he's standing on second base and the
Speaker 3: crowd is just absolutely erupting. You know. That was obviously
Speaker 3: the spring when he was treated for cancer, and he,
Speaker 3: like I said, comes out of a radiation out of
Speaker 3: a radiation treatment and is this double and the entire
Speaker 3: ballpark just exploded. So and like I said, I still
Speaker 3: have goosebumps thinking about it. I've written about it a
Speaker 3: number of times, and that was That's my greatest you know,
Speaker 3: even though it's just a home opener, I considered like
Speaker 3: an opening day because that would be my greatest opening
Speaker 3: day memory.
Speaker 2: That's cool.
Speaker 1: And not only not only could John Krug roll out
Speaker 1: of bed and get a base HIMPI can roll out
Speaker 1: of a hospital. Man. He's got that skill set. That's
Speaker 1: why he's so damn popular. And I you know, I'm
Speaker 1: fifty nine years old now probably gone through.
Speaker 4: This will be my fifty ninth Opening Day as I live,
Speaker 4: as I continue to be fortunate enough to be six
Speaker 4: feet above instead of six feet below.
Speaker 5: But I think the I think, honestly, the one that
Speaker 5: that comes to mind as fat as far as like,
Speaker 5: the biggest impact on me personally is the very first.
Speaker 1: Opening Day that I made as a major leaguer, and
Speaker 1: that was with the Phillies in ninety two. I was
Speaker 1: traded from ninety one and the off season of ninety
Speaker 1: one to the Phillies for bon Hayes, along with Kyle Labbott.
Speaker 1: For bon Hayes. It was a terrible trade for both teams,
Speaker 1: but I got a chance to make my very first
Speaker 1: opening day team and for me to be able to
Speaker 1: stand on the lines with sixty thousand people in the
Speaker 1: stands at Veterans Stadium, the place that I had been
Speaker 1: the bat boy and had grown up watching all my
Speaker 1: baseball heroes, and to be able to stand there, it
Speaker 1: was really emotional. That was one. Two was when I
Speaker 1: was back on the field with the Boston Red Sox
Speaker 1: as a coach and my dad had just passed away
Speaker 1: March thirty first, almost seven years to the day now
Speaker 1: from this this lit podcast, and when I was on
Speaker 1: the lines again in uniform, uh, for the first time
Speaker 1: in what you know, it was twenty some years after
Speaker 1: being in the front office. And you know, the Boston
Speaker 1: Red Sox do a really cool thing and they sort
Speaker 1: of honor all the people who were involved in Major
Speaker 1: League Baseball who had passed away in that offseason. And
Speaker 1: my dad was the very first one because he's a
Speaker 1: right tomorrow and they had a long, you know shot
Speaker 1: of him and I just lost it. It was awesome,
Speaker 1: still makes me emotional.
Speaker 3: I bet you did.
Speaker 1: That's I lost it. So the other thing, as far
Speaker 1: as family is concerned, my ex wife Virginia and mother
Speaker 1: and my kids every single Opening day, guess what, out
Speaker 1: of school to the game Opening day Phillies at the game,
Speaker 1: sitting in the box or whatever. That was automatic. And
Speaker 1: she came from sort of family too.
Speaker 3: So how about you, Todd, In the land of Bronson Beer,
Speaker 3: Milwaukee was carved the brew Crew. You must have some
Speaker 3: great ones, that's.
Speaker 2: Right, you know, Like for me, what I remember as
Speaker 2: a kid the eighty two Brewers, the only Brewers team
Speaker 2: ever go to the World Series. So that's what kind
Speaker 2: of got me hooked on baseball, Robie. I can still
Speaker 2: recite you the lineup in order, you know how Harvey
Speaker 2: Keane said it, you know, mold or young Cooper Simmons,
Speaker 2: top four guys. And I just remember as a kid,
Speaker 2: as a little kid, second grade, third grade, I would
Speaker 2: make my own score sheets out of my dad had
Speaker 2: these big reams of like printer paper from work. I
Speaker 2: would make my own scorecard with the ruler and I'd
Speaker 2: write out the lineup and I would keep scores I
Speaker 2: as I listened to the game and follow the game along.
Speaker 1: And so I was old.
Speaker 2: I was like seven eight years old. So yeah, I
Speaker 2: was seven eight nine years old, and yeah, I would
Speaker 2: just kind of like geek out and make my own
Speaker 2: score sheets.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was fun.
Speaker 2: And in just the image of County Stadium just filled
Speaker 2: and all the all the grills going at the same
Speaker 2: time in early April and it's cold out, so its
Speaker 2: just like all this smoke going up around the ballpark
Speaker 2: was just amazing. And I think since I've been covering
Speaker 2: the Phillies, Mike, the one that sticks out the most
Speaker 2: is Opening Day twenty ten when Halliday was on the
Speaker 2: mound in DC, and that was just like, oh, they're
Speaker 2: coming off two World Series and now you got Roy
Speaker 2: Halliday pitching. I mean it was pretty cool and everybody
Speaker 2: was super excited. And of course he did what he
Speaker 2: did that year, which is shove and win, and so
Speaker 2: that was that was a that was a fun one.
Speaker 2: So spring training ended on Monday in Clearwater. The Phillies
Speaker 2: just announced their opening day roster officially today and to me,
Speaker 2: there were kind of like two big storylines this spring.
Speaker 2: One was Johann Rojas and you guys, if you have
Speaker 2: any other ones that pop in your head, but one
Speaker 2: is Johan Rojas. And the second one to me is
Speaker 2: the back end of the rotation as it relates to
Speaker 2: Taiwan Walker, Christopher Sanchez, and then blake'snell and Jordan Montgomery.
Speaker 2: You know, so let's start with Johann Rojas. He makes
Speaker 2: the team. There's been a lot of talk about it
Speaker 2: in Philly, just based off my social media feeds. What
Speaker 2: do you guys feel about this young guy making an
Speaker 2: opening day roster after struggling as he did in the postseason,
Speaker 2: didn't really produce in this in spring training and running
Speaker 2: him out there and seeing what he's got good.
Speaker 3: Jimmy Well, I think I'm not surprised that they've stuck
Speaker 3: with him, and they're sticking with him even though he
Speaker 3: didn't really produce in spring training, because if if you
Speaker 3: study Rob Thompson a little bit and the organization, you know, Rob,
Speaker 3: I think believes that his number one currency in the
Speaker 3: clubhouse and number one currency and leading players is trust.
Speaker 3: And they told this kid, hey, we want you to
Speaker 3: work on this stuff, want you to work on it
Speaker 3: through spring training, and don't worry about the results. The
Speaker 3: results weren't good, but he worked on stuff. If you're
Speaker 3: gonna send him down based on results, then maybe you're
Speaker 3: not being true to your word. I think back to
Speaker 3: last October in the postseason. I remember reading one of
Speaker 3: your stories, Todd like, didn't Rob Thompson go up to
Speaker 3: Johann Rojas and say, Hey, I don't want to worry
Speaker 3: about anything. You're my guy, right, You're my guy. It's
Speaker 3: probably why he stuck with him late in that postseason
Speaker 3: when he was Scotland, because he told him you're my guy.
Speaker 3: But I think trust and being true to your word
Speaker 3: means something to Rob Thompson. It means something to the players,
Speaker 3: and obviously means something to the organization, and they wanted
Speaker 3: to stick with him and let him, you know, be
Speaker 3: the opening day center fielder and give him a good
Speaker 3: run and see what he can do. Now, if they
Speaker 3: didn't have a powerhouse one through eight, maybe that doesn't happen.
Speaker 3: But you know, they should be in a position where
Speaker 3: and it's very difficult to make adjustments at the big
Speaker 3: league level, but they should be in a position where
Speaker 3: if they do what they should do one through eight,
Speaker 3: they can allow this kid more time, more seasoning at
Speaker 3: the big league level. If in a couple of months
Speaker 3: he's still kind of lost, then you know, I think
Speaker 3: you need to get back to the drawing board, back
Speaker 3: to the table, and figure out what you're gonna what
Speaker 3: you're gonna do there. But that's you know, kind of
Speaker 3: the way I see, I see how they're going. Rubyn,
Speaker 3: Do you have any Do you agree there?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I agree with you. It's hard to assess,
Speaker 1: you know, when you start talking about results in spring training.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you start talking about results in spring training,
Speaker 1: you look at the rest of the team, what they
Speaker 1: hit about a buck like a hundred. I mean, I
Speaker 1: mean I don't ever really like to necessarily, it's very
Speaker 1: difficult to sort of assess, you know, progress, I think
Speaker 1: qualityly at bats and that sort of thing. I think
Speaker 1: he improved a little bit. He didn't have great at bats,
Speaker 1: but I see he was trying to work on swinging
Speaker 1: at strikes and trying to do some bunting and doing
Speaker 1: the things that they had that he had been working on.
Speaker 1: I do agree with you wholeheartedly that won this This
Speaker 1: lineup is one of the better lineups, deeper lineups in
Speaker 1: all baseball. And the defense, let's let's call it, let's
Speaker 1: call the truth. Defensively, when you have Schwarber and in
Speaker 1: left field and you have Marsh and center field, it's
Speaker 1: not that good of a defensive club. It's not very
Speaker 1: good at all. If you have Johann Rojas and center
Speaker 1: and you have Brandon Marsh and you know, with Merryfield,
Speaker 1: whoever's out there pace, perhaps then you have a very
Speaker 1: good outfield. And the balls hit in the air all
Speaker 1: the time, and you need defense. I mean, we were
Speaker 1: bitching and complaining about whether or not, you know, somebody
Speaker 1: could catch the fly ball three years ago, and now
Speaker 1: now you got an outfield that's that's pretty darn good.
Speaker 1: Because Costiganos has improved. He's not a leite, but he's
Speaker 1: gotten himself to average, I think so. I think that's
Speaker 1: an important element of it. I think also, let's let's
Speaker 1: not forget the dude hit three hundred last year pretty
Speaker 1: much the entire season. I know that it was a
Speaker 1: very limit look in Double A. It was Double A,
Speaker 1: I get it, But he hit three hundred there when
Speaker 1: major leagues only what one hundred and fifty played appearances.
Speaker 1: He hit three hundred there, and so you have to
Speaker 1: sort of assess that as well. He did perform at
Speaker 1: the major league level, albeit you know, they started to
Speaker 1: make adjustments on him. Can he make those adjustments back?
Speaker 1: You never know. I mean, I hopefully he can. He's
Speaker 1: athletic enough. I hopefully that he doesn't feel the pressure
Speaker 1: to have to do it. And you also hope that
Speaker 1: he doesn't play offensively so poorly that he starts to
Speaker 1: lose confidence in himself. And it'll be really interesting. I've
Speaker 1: seen Dave Dombrowski in the past as a GM when
Speaker 1: I was when I was coach, Blake Swinheart was a
Speaker 1: perfect example for me. Blake Swihart was supposed to be
Speaker 1: an everyday catcher and he caught for about five or
Speaker 1: six games out of the shoot, and he really struggled.
Speaker 1: He struggled to receive, he struggled to run the game.
Speaker 1: Now totally different position, probably the most important position on
Speaker 1: the field. But then they got him out of there.
Speaker 1: They sent him down pretty quickly because he had it
Speaker 1: was just too much responsibility. Now, this guy is an
Speaker 1: elite center fielder. Blake Swyhert was not an elite center
Speaker 1: fielder excuse me, catcher, and so it's a little bit
Speaker 1: of a different story there. And he's definitely not gonna
Speaker 1: be overmatched on the field, So that part of the
Speaker 1: game he's going to be fine with. But I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think, Jim, I agree with you. I think that
Speaker 1: what will be interesting is how long the leash is.
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be at least a month,
Speaker 1: and then you know, we see where we go where
Speaker 1: we go from Plus the other thing is this, no
Speaker 1: one really stepped up and said, Okay, I'm going to
Speaker 1: be I'm going to take over the center field job,
Speaker 1: like Patch started off okay, but then he kind of
Speaker 1: fizzled at the end. No, no, no, there was nobody
Speaker 1: that you looked at it and you said Oh my god,
Speaker 1: this guy's going to be center fielder.
Speaker 3: And you mentioned you mentioned defense, and it's not like
Speaker 3: this guy is not going to contribute. You mentioned the
Speaker 3: elite defense, and there's the game is simple. Form is
Speaker 3: about scoring runs and preventing runs. And he's going to
Speaker 3: help you on one side of that coin a lot.
Speaker 2: You asked Zach Wheeler and Aarondola who they want playing
Speaker 2: defense center field. Okay, we're gonna say, I'll take Johann
Speaker 2: Rojas hitting two hundred, if you know, if he can play,
Speaker 2: if he can play every day, I'll Johann Rojas hits
Speaker 2: two hundred.
Speaker 1: I want him in the lineup. Everything that's important.
Speaker 6: Thirteen, all thirteen of those, all thirteen of those pitchers.
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely, it's important to keep those guys on the
Speaker 3: hill happy, you know. I mean, we know all those
Speaker 3: stories about Roy Halliday. He wanted certain guys in certain
Speaker 3: places on certain games after certain things happened. So you
Speaker 3: know you want to keep the pitching stuff happy.
Speaker 1: Hey there, that's where your bread is buttered. Brother. You
Speaker 1: don't have to tell me about the pitching and how
Speaker 1: important it is and the defense in the run prevention,
Speaker 1: because if you can prevent runs. You have a chance
Speaker 1: to win every so you can hit. You can have
Speaker 1: it two runs a game. You can prevent runs. You
Speaker 1: got a chance.
Speaker 3: Let me. I want to ask Ruben a question because
Speaker 3: he actually stood in the batter's box at the major
Speaker 3: league level. We talked so much these days about the swing.
Speaker 3: The swing, the swing. They teach it, they work on it.
Speaker 3: They you know, apparently worked on a lot this winter
Speaker 3: with Rojas. What's more important the swing or pitch recognition,
Speaker 3: and and pitch recognition is really hard to learn or
Speaker 3: develop or whatever you want to call it. It's it's
Speaker 3: a tough tough thing to learn or to get good
Speaker 3: at at the big league level. Any concerns there.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think there are.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's why the hitting is the single most
Speaker 1: difficult thing to do in sports, the one thing that's
Speaker 1: the most difficult thing to do, I think, unless maybe
Speaker 1: you're a golfer and you're trying to hit a green
Speaker 1: every time, or hit it, you know, I mean, golf
Speaker 1: might be we were talking about that the other day.
Speaker 1: Maybe golf is a little bit more negative. Who knows,
Speaker 1: you know, one in one a but it's a it's
Speaker 1: a very difficult thing to do, and it's something that
Speaker 1: you can improve on and you can work on, but ultimately,
Speaker 1: if you don't have the eye hand coordination and be
Speaker 1: able to make you know, contact with the ball with
Speaker 1: your bat, then you're in trouble. And hitting is an
Speaker 1: art and it's something that you know, sometimes he can't
Speaker 1: piece together and you're hoping that the guy is athletic enough.
Speaker 1: I go back and start thinking about some of the
Speaker 1: athletes who became who were terrible hitters, who became good
Speaker 1: hitters because they were athletic and instinctive. And I think
Speaker 1: about guys like Ozzie Smith who could not hit, but
Speaker 1: was a tremendous instinctive player. It was a switch hitter,
Speaker 1: but he he can figure out a way to get
Speaker 1: the barrel of the ball eventually and like maximize. So
Speaker 1: he became a little bit better as he got as
Speaker 1: he got older and got more experience. Omarvas SkELL, horrendous hitter,
Speaker 1: became a pretty darn good hitter later on in his career,
Speaker 1: and so you know, I think start thinking about that.
Speaker 1: Even a guy like Freddie Galvis, like at some point,
Speaker 1: you know, the question was was just got to go
Speaker 1: to be able to hit? It up.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: He wasn't a great hitter, but he made himself usable offensively.
Speaker 1: And so I think that if you have instinct and
Speaker 1: you have eye hand coordination, I think that you can
Speaker 1: get there or get be improved. Do you become a
Speaker 1: Hall of Famer? Maybe not, but you know there's if
Speaker 1: you can. You have the ability to adjust, and you
Speaker 1: have instinct for the game, which I do believe that
Speaker 1: Rojas does have, then I think he's got a chance
Speaker 1: to make those adjustments.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for what it's worth. As of like late last week,
Speaker 2: he small sample size, no pressure. Spring training, he was
Speaker 2: chasing less out of those pitches out of his own again,
Speaker 2: super small sample size, totally different situation, no pressure to produce,
Speaker 2: but he was chasing less. So, uh, Taiwan Walker is
Speaker 2: opening the season on the il right shoulder soreness.
Speaker 1: A lot of talking.
Speaker 2: So every time I ran into somebody Rubin in Clearwater,
Speaker 2: I'm sure you get it way worse than me because
Speaker 2: people run and you know, recognize you a lot more.
Speaker 2: But it was always they're gonna sign Snell, They're gonna
Speaker 2: sign Montgomery, right, are they gonna? And then Philly said no,
Speaker 2: And I'm wondering what you guys think about that back
Speaker 2: end of the rotation. And I think the first three
Speaker 2: are super solid obviously, but do you have any thoughts
Speaker 2: on them not going after Snell and or Montgomery? And
Speaker 2: are you concerned about Taiwan Walker's shoulder and his lack
Speaker 2: of velocity.
Speaker 1: So here's my thing. Let me let me let me
Speaker 1: go first. Go ahead, yes, go ahead. No.
Speaker 2: I was just saying, also, like the fact that they're
Speaker 2: really counting on Sanchez to continue where he left off.
Speaker 2: You know, it's Almos's I don't know how much of
Speaker 2: a lock that is or a guarantee that is, but
Speaker 2: they're obviously really much They're very much counting on him
Speaker 2: to repeat what he did last year, right.
Speaker 1: And so I'll start with Sanchez. Great segue because it
Speaker 1: had Sanchez not sort of made the development changes that
Speaker 1: he made and become maybe one of their more consistent
Speaker 1: guys down the stretch. I think he was one of
Speaker 1: the most consistent pitchers they had, and I know they
Speaker 1: protected him some, but this is a guy that came
Speaker 1: a long way. This guy was like a rock thrower man.
Speaker 1: He didn't have any idea where he was and he
Speaker 1: made the adjustments to become a pitcher and started pitching
Speaker 1: much much better. And it is my feeling that he
Speaker 1: is going to continue on that path. Good kid works hard,
Speaker 1: knows he hasn't made it. I think he's humble enough
Speaker 1: to understand that he's got a lot of work to
Speaker 1: do still, and he's got you know, and teams are
Speaker 1: going to make adjustments on him, and he's gonna have
Speaker 1: to make adjustmente back. But I think the emergence of
Speaker 1: of Christopher Sanchez probably had a lot to do with
Speaker 1: the fact that these guys did not make a run
Speaker 1: at Smell in Montcomery, because I think that they felt
Speaker 1: that with four solid starters they could piece the other
Speaker 1: five the other whether it's whether it was Taiwan Walker
Speaker 1: or you know, whoever they could sign, which they did
Speaker 1: Turnbull Spencer Turnbull in this case, I think that they
Speaker 1: felt comfortable with that, knowing that, hey, if we have
Speaker 1: other needs and and a need in starting pitching arises
Speaker 1: that we could try to get that and hit that
Speaker 1: element later on, whether it be through excuse me, through
Speaker 1: trade or what have you. I think that they have
Speaker 1: some of the resources to be able to combat that,
Speaker 1: and it may be a different one somebody might get hurt,
Speaker 1: you know, somebody. They may lose a catcher, they may
Speaker 1: lose a you know who knows, and God forbid for
Speaker 1: for the Phillies fans. But but I think, you know,
Speaker 1: I think Taiwan Walker's situation is he had a slow start.
Speaker 1: He had some personal things going on in the spring.
Speaker 1: He had a knee issue and he couldn't really utilize
Speaker 1: his lower half very well for a while, basically backed
Speaker 1: him up. So that sort of morphed into having a
Speaker 1: shoulder issue. I don't think it's long term, id it.
Speaker 1: I guess he's he's you know, throwing throwing bullpens now,
Speaker 1: and he's gonna you know, are pretty soon. And I
Speaker 1: think he's just you know, he's going to start to
Speaker 1: get himself into a position to be able to pitch
Speaker 1: in the rotation fairly soon. And I hope that does happen,
Speaker 1: because if he can pitch anywhere close to where he
Speaker 1: was in July and August, I guess in that time frame,
Speaker 1: and he's you know, he's a usable pitcher. He's a
Speaker 1: fourth or fifth starter, and a pretty good one because
Speaker 1: you can eat up some minutes.
Speaker 3: I agree, you got to get him back because that's
Speaker 3: where his value is the innings on the pitching side
Speaker 3: of right, you love the first two. You think Rangers
Speaker 3: really ready to take a step forward, so you could
Speaker 3: really fall in love with the first three. I mean,
Speaker 3: there's question is in four and five, but a lot
Speaker 3: of teams have questions in four and five. So I
Speaker 3: still think the Phillies with what they have are pretty
Speaker 3: well situated in pitching. But you know, there's not a
Speaker 3: ton of depth. They need to stay healthy. You need
Speaker 3: to get Walker back, give him so he can give
Speaker 3: him some innings. This is going to afford them a
Speaker 3: chance to look a little bit more. Turnbull, see where
Speaker 3: he's coming back from, Tommy Johnson, see what he looks like.
Speaker 3: Sanchez is an as sending player getting better. I think
Speaker 3: it'll be a big test for him because some guys,
Speaker 3: some guys improve a little bit one year and then
Speaker 3: level off. It's important for him, I think, to take
Speaker 3: another step forward. And beyond that. There's not a lot
Speaker 3: of depth at Triple A. I mean, I guess I
Speaker 3: shouldn't say not a lot of depth. They have some
Speaker 3: depth pieces. I don't think there's a lot of depth
Speaker 3: that makes you go wow. Other than Mick abel I mean,
Speaker 3: if he's I think at some point this season he
Speaker 3: needs to be knocking on the door. But just think
Speaker 3: the drop off after three, the depth after after three
Speaker 3: in the rotation is probably my biggest concern. They really
Speaker 3: need to stay healthy at one, two, and three and
Speaker 3: have those guys performing like they can. But like I said,
Speaker 3: I think a lot of teams have drop offs after one,
Speaker 3: two and three, and you know, if they catch the ball.
Speaker 3: We talked about the importance of catching the ball. I mean,
Speaker 3: they should be very sound defensively up the middle, and
Speaker 3: they should score some runs. I'm sure the pitching staff's
Speaker 3: going to like that. But you know, on the whole,
Speaker 3: I kind of liked the starting pitching. It just it
Speaker 3: needs to hold up and they need to have some
Speaker 3: step up beyond number three, and they need to stay healthy.
Speaker 2: The thing, I think you guys all heard the same
Speaker 2: thing that the Phillies just did not want to go
Speaker 2: past that third luxury tax threshold. That is a stiff,
Speaker 2: stiff tax penalty to pay. I did the math. I
Speaker 2: hope I'm right. Nobody emailed me and said I was wrong.
Speaker 2: I wrote about this yesterday. But if they if they
Speaker 2: had signed Montgomery to that one year, twenty five million
Speaker 2: dollar deal. It would have pushed their payroll from about
Speaker 2: two sixty to eighty five. So now they're tax penalty
Speaker 2: because you know, if it goes up and up and up,
Speaker 2: the further and further you go. Their tax penalty right
Speaker 2: now is twelve point four million. It would have jumped
Speaker 2: to more than thirty million dollars. So you add on
Speaker 2: eighteen extra penalty, eighteen million extra penalty to the twenty
Speaker 2: five million dollars for Jordan Montgomery salary. Now you're talking
Speaker 2: at a one year, forty forty three million dollar contract
Speaker 2: for Jordan Montgomery plus plus you your top pick in
Speaker 2: the draft falls ten spots.
Speaker 1: That's pretty stiff.
Speaker 3: That's stiff.
Speaker 1: That's rough. That's very rough.
Speaker 2: And I know it's not my it's not my money,
Speaker 2: so I couldn't care less if they do it, and
Speaker 2: it Believe me, it would be more fun for everybody
Speaker 2: if they would have done it. But those are real
Speaker 2: considerations that the front office and ownership hads to make.
Speaker 2: So I see why they said, you know, we're going
Speaker 2: to see how Walker and Suarez do. We're going to
Speaker 2: see how Able continues to progress, and see if Spencer
Speaker 2: Turbo could maybe provide us some death depth because man like,
Speaker 2: like Ruben said earlier, what happens if somebody else goes
Speaker 2: down in another part of the roster. And now you're going,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, we just dropped forty three million dollars
Speaker 2: on a pitcher that we really didn't need, and we
Speaker 2: really could use this payroll flexibility for something else on
Speaker 2: the roster.
Speaker 1: So let's let's talk about that that. I know, I
Speaker 1: know it sounds I don't like to talk about Delta's
Speaker 1: But the difference between what Spencer Turnbull Okay, let's just
Speaker 1: say Spencer Turnbull and and Jordan Montgomery. First of all,
Speaker 1: Montgomery's not gonna pitch competitively until when I don't know,
Speaker 1: is he ready in three weeks, in two weeks, in
Speaker 1: a month? So you move it. So say say it's
Speaker 1: a month. Okay, I would be really.
Speaker 6: Conservative, say he pitches in a month. So you have
Speaker 6: for five months, you.
Speaker 1: Have Spencer Turnbull probably for a month.
Speaker 6: Say Tiwan Walker comes back after a month, so you
Speaker 6: have Tywan Walker for five months. So the difference between
Speaker 6: Taiwan Walker and Jordan Montgomery, what is he going to
Speaker 6: what is it going to give you Is it gonna
Speaker 6: give a forty three million and ten slots in your
Speaker 6: in your draft pick better?
Speaker 1: Is it gonna make you that much better?
Speaker 6: I just don't see it, and so the logic behind
Speaker 6: it just doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: I listen, I'm all about getting the best pitching and
Speaker 1: all the pitch. But Jordan Montgomery is a good picture.
Speaker 1: He's not an ace. Okay, I'm about it getting an ace.
Speaker 1: If it was like a sures Aer about four or
Speaker 1: five years ago, I'll take that. I'll do that. I'll
Speaker 1: make that it with Verlander. I'll make that move. But
Speaker 1: I just don't know if the delta's you know, if
Speaker 1: if the difference is big enough to be able to
Speaker 1: make that to want to make that move right now.
Speaker 2: And that's why they that's why they went after that
Speaker 2: Yoshinibu Yamamoto in decembers, because they thought he was that
Speaker 2: potentially that type of guy, whereas Snell they had no
Speaker 2: interest in Montgomery.
Speaker 1: They were, yeah, it smell's not that guy either. It
Speaker 1: smells not that guy either. It's a cy Young award.
Speaker 1: He pitches five minutes. That's not an ace. I'm sorry
Speaker 1: he won the cy Young, but I think that's the
Speaker 1: biggest farce from the planet. I just don't think. I
Speaker 1: just don't. I don't get it. I don't, I can't.
Speaker 1: I don't understand it. And I know this is a
Speaker 1: different breed of baseball. But if you're going to tell
Speaker 1: me that the cy Young Award winner averaged five and
Speaker 1: what one third innings for his thirty one starts and
Speaker 1: he won the cy Young, I mean he may. He
Speaker 1: should have been the most dominant pitcher in the He
Speaker 1: should have been Sandy Kofax, which he was not.
Speaker 3: Innings are not value. Innings are not valued like they
Speaker 3: used to be, and they should be.
Speaker 1: We saw that more than ever, more than ever now.
Speaker 3: We saw that in the cy Young voting with Corbyn
Speaker 3: Burns beating out Zach Wheeler, who we could do them
Speaker 3: a few years ago? Who could do the math? Didn't
Speaker 3: Wheeler make like five more starts?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was a crazy war.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was well ridiculous.
Speaker 2: That that said, the Phillies definitely put their money where
Speaker 2: their mouth is that they value innings because they give
Speaker 2: Zach Wheeler a ton of money and they give Aaron
Speaker 2: Nola a ton of money money that Blake Snell thought
Speaker 2: he should have blown past and didn't come close to touching.
Speaker 2: Because the Phillies like this guy, Aaron Noa throws two
Speaker 2: hundred innings every year. Let's let's lock him up for
Speaker 2: the next several.
Speaker 3: And the whole thing was Walker did pitching the postseason
Speaker 3: last year. Maybe people are down on them. This isn't
Speaker 3: you know, an injury that causes concern because he gave
Speaker 3: you one hundred and seventy two innings last year. How
Speaker 3: are you going to replace those?
Speaker 1: Right? Righty? Not many guys. Hey, they had five guys,
Speaker 1: five five pitchers through two hundred innings last year. Boys,
Speaker 1: it's crazy, and so now more than ever when you
Speaker 1: have a dearth of pitching, I think because people are
Speaker 1: dropping like flies physically, they're not able to because there's
Speaker 1: so much pressure and so many innings that have to
Speaker 1: be traversed over the course of a season. Because the
Speaker 1: starters can't go anywhere, it can't go past five innings.
Speaker 1: It causes real domino effect across baseball, and I think
Speaker 1: it's one of the one of the things that has
Speaker 1: to be addressed in the game.
Speaker 3: And a lot of people think, you know what, starting
Speaker 3: pitchers are babied and I don't mean to get into
Speaker 3: this debate, but I was reading a story in The
Speaker 3: Athletic yesterday. As you both know, I'm a big hockey fan.
Speaker 3: Martin bro Door maybe the greatest goalie ever. There's a
Speaker 3: story in the Athletic Martin bro Door worries about if
Speaker 3: goalies are being babied. We're babying an entire generation of goalies.
Speaker 3: So it's in every.
Speaker 1: Sport, no doubt, it's no doubt. I mean, listen and
Speaker 1: you're and you're finding actually that it's it's having the
Speaker 1: reverse effect. The unintended consequences of what is happening now
Speaker 1: is that you don't have pictures pitching on the field
Speaker 1: because they're blowing out, because they're throwing as hard as
Speaker 1: they possibly can, or throwing that one pitch that they
Speaker 1: throw eighty percent of the time out of the bullpen,
Speaker 1: and it's causing people to break. And that is happening.
Speaker 1: It's real, it's there, and it startles me that owners
Speaker 1: don't see it. And and they have millions upon billions
Speaker 1: of dollars on the I l and not performing for them.
Speaker 1: And I just don't understand how how people are letting
Speaker 1: this happen.
Speaker 3: They want to throw harder and harder and harder, and
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, get out the uh, get out
Speaker 3: the phone and call doctor Andrews.
Speaker 1: Correct, So it's doctor Andrews right there. As a matter
Speaker 1: of fact.
Speaker 2: So I think, like the opening day match of Phillies
Speaker 2: Braves might be the best in baseball. Not only two teams,
Speaker 2: two rivals, two teams that maybe don't like each other
Speaker 2: too much. Can't wait to see Orlando Arcia on the
Speaker 2: field on Friday, and Wheeler versus Spencer Strider probably the best,
Speaker 2: right is that the best starting matchup in baseball, starting
Speaker 2: pitching matchup on opening days? It has to be, It
Speaker 2: has to be.
Speaker 1: Try.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's let's end on this. What do you think
Speaker 2: can the Phillies beat the Braves or pass the Brave
Speaker 2: and win the NLS this year? If so, how do
Speaker 2: they do it? And maybe if not? Like, why what's
Speaker 2: your greatest concern?
Speaker 1: I happen to think that, daved Oh, go ahead, go ahead, Jim.
Speaker 3: No, I want to hear you say, Ruben, because you're
Speaker 3: smarter than I am.
Speaker 1: No, I'm not, No, I'm not.
Speaker 6: You see the game in a totally different way. So
Speaker 6: so here, So here's my thing.
Speaker 1: I do believe that Dave Dombrowski and Alexanthoppolos are two
Speaker 1: of the better gms in baseball. What Alexanthopolis did in
Speaker 1: adding to his ball club, you know when you can
Speaker 1: add pitching and quality pitching the left hand brain locking
Speaker 1: on his on uh on the left hand's name. I
Speaker 1: was coached him and it was in Boston when he
Speaker 1: made that trade to pick up Sale. I think that
Speaker 1: was brilliant. And I think he added a bunch of
Speaker 1: left handers in his bullpen to combat like the quality
Speaker 1: of the left handed hitters in Stot and Warber and
Speaker 1: Harper in their bullpen. I think that was brilliant. I
Speaker 1: think that they have one of the best young probably
Speaker 1: close to prime time as far as their age and
Speaker 1: their ability is concerned, group of players in all of baseball.
Speaker 1: It's a tremendous team. But there also there's to be
Speaker 1: some questions about whether they're going to be able to
Speaker 1: stay healthy enough, and that's a that's a real question.
Speaker 1: So I think it's a great matchup. I think it's
Speaker 1: two tremendous ball clubs. I have Atlanta favored over Philadelphia
Speaker 1: just based on what I see that does not mean
Speaker 1: by any means that the Phillies can't overtake them, because
Speaker 1: I have it. I think that they have the ability
Speaker 1: to do that. They just haven't proven it yet. And
Speaker 1: until they prove it, that Atlanta is still the best
Speaker 1: team in that in the in the division.
Speaker 3: For me, yeah, I think the Phillies can overtake the
Speaker 3: Braves this year. I know this is going to sound
Speaker 3: ridiculously simplistic, but it's going to come down to who
Speaker 3: plays better. It always does. I mean there's talent up
Speaker 3: and down both lineups. There's talent up and down both rotations.
Speaker 3: You know, you stay healthy in rotation, you deliver, and
Speaker 3: there's you winner. I mean, I love Atlanta's lineup, you know,
Speaker 3: I love those two guys at the corner. You gotta
Speaker 3: love at the corner. Infield spots. You gotta love Acunya
Speaker 3: maybe the best player in the game. Great team, but
Speaker 3: if the Phillies look at you know, there's no slowly
Speaker 3: they got studs up and down. I think the Phillies
Speaker 3: were fourth in the league in runs last year. I
Speaker 3: think they're gonna score runs if they're pitching holes up,
Speaker 3: bullpen holes up. Yeah, you know, I think they can
Speaker 3: certainly win this division, but with you know, six teams
Speaker 3: going to the playoffs, I think winning the division is important.
Speaker 3: It still means something you have. You know, we have
Speaker 3: to win two fewer games to win the World Series.
Speaker 3: You get more games at home, you know. That said,
Speaker 3: we've seen how dangerous the Phillies can be by just
Speaker 3: you know, getting in and getting hot. We've seen what
Speaker 3: happens when you get in and go call too in
Speaker 3: the NLCS last two games last year. So I think
Speaker 3: it's going to be a very closely matched division. I
Speaker 3: think the Phillies need to go out and try to
Speaker 3: win it. They have the talent to do it. It's
Speaker 3: just about playing well. And I think the front office,
Speaker 3: you know, even though they're carrying a very big payroll,
Speaker 3: I think and they didn't make a play for Montgomery
Speaker 3: for the reasons we talked about. They see a hole.
Speaker 3: They're going to fix it in July.
Speaker 6: And I think the only disappointment, Yeah, the only disappointment
Speaker 6: I have is that in this situation, I would love
Speaker 6: to have these teams be able to face off nineteen times.
Speaker 1: Now it's just thirteen, and so it's you know, there's
Speaker 1: a change in the in the way that the schedule
Speaker 1: set up. But the Phillies are gonna have to play
Speaker 1: better baseball against them. In regular season, they got beat
Speaker 1: up by the Atlanta Braves. They played them better, I thought.
Speaker 1: I think they played them better in the playoffs, But
Speaker 1: I think was Atlanta beat them up pretty good in
Speaker 1: the regular season. I thinks unless I'm mistaken.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, they've talked a lot this spring about
Speaker 2: getting off to a fast start, and you know, obviously
Speaker 2: the last two years they kind of buried themselves going
Speaker 2: into June, so they had absolutely no chance to catch them.
Speaker 2: But what will be funny is if the Phillies are
Speaker 2: neck and neck with the Braves, and then you're going
Speaker 2: to hear people going, boy, I don't know the Braves
Speaker 2: they won the division last years, they were so cold
Speaker 2: going into the NLDS. Is it the best thing for
Speaker 2: the Phillies doing the division? You know that's going to happen.
Speaker 1: But you know, you want to win the division.
Speaker 2: You want that buy it's automatic, right.
Speaker 3: If you're a competitor, you want to win the division.
Speaker 3: But the way modern baseball is now, there's a pretty
Speaker 3: good landing spot in some of these wildcards, and we've
Speaker 3: seen you know, countless, you know, not countless, but a
Speaker 3: number of teams really you know, go to the World Series,
Speaker 3: win the World Series from that whole. So you know,
Speaker 3: all all hope is not lost if you finished in
Speaker 3: second place. But as opening days here, I mean, throw
Speaker 3: it down and try to win the division.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I think it's ultimately And you guys know
Speaker 6: this because you've been around the game a long time.
Speaker 6: It's what team is the hottest, who's playing the best baseball,
Speaker 6: and what team is the.
Speaker 1: Hottest, and that's the team that's going to win the
Speaker 1: World Series. I truly believe in my heart of hearts.
Speaker 1: When you got down to the final four last year,
Speaker 1: the Phillies were the most were the most complete.
Speaker 6: Ball club, and they couldn't get past and d Backs
Speaker 6: and the Texas Rangers were playing great baseball, especially away
Speaker 6: from home, which was ridiculous.
Speaker 1: And it just it happens. And it's just a team
Speaker 1: that plays the hottest type of baseball. If you're hot,
Speaker 1: you'll win. And that's what happens. We did it in
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight. We got hot, and we played
Speaker 1: a team that was a lesser talented team than the
Speaker 1: Boston Red Sox. In the Tampa Bay Rays, and so
Speaker 1: we got fortunate and we won.
Speaker 2: This is fun, guys, Opening days here. Let's do this again,
Speaker 2: shall we.
Speaker 1: Jim Love talking baseball. Yeah yeah, man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll do it again. We'll do it again sometime.
Speaker 3: You bring the uh, the.
Speaker 1: Hogies, I'll bring the hogies, I'll bring the I'll bring
Speaker 1: the enchiladas.
Speaker 2: Let's diversify the lunch portfolio as we go. Awesome, guys,
Speaker 2: good talking to you.
Speaker 1: Good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: Everybody.
Speaker 2: This is the Philly Show and again tune in for
Speaker 2: future episodes.
Speaker 1: Thanks,