1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: We have good news. Ruthie's Table four is now a book. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: Table four at the River Cafe Conversations About Food and 3 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: Life is a collection of guests, interviews, photographs from over 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: two hundred and forty episodes. We have Paul McCartney, Tina Fey, 5 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: David Beckham Melbrooks, Austin Butler, Sarah Jessica Parker, and many 6 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: many more telling their stories through the lens of food 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: or to now Ruthy's Table four dot com slash book 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: Ruthie's Table four presented by Sky. 9 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: I was convinced by this point that I was supposed 10 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 2: to have died. But someone said somewhere, let's give her 11 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 2: another chance, which there's something good in our Let's just 12 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 2: see what happens. And I feel at the moment even 13 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 2: with my shirt, hey, I haven't blown it. And the 14 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 2: second life, I'm really having one, And someone said this 15 00:00:57,880 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: really good thing now after my shirt, Hey, I'm going 16 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 2: to going to the third. 17 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: I think it's the third life. 18 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 3: My idea of true luxury is to be in a 19 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 3: museum looking at art I love. I experienced this feeling 20 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 3: last night when I was lucky enough to go to 21 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 3: the Tate Modern to see a Second Life the exhibition 22 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 3: of the work of Tracy Emmon. 23 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: Tracy says she doesn't think of this show as a retrospective, 24 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: but for the world, it's a chance to see her 25 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: work from the beginning to right now. When we started 26 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: Ruthy's Table for Tracy was one of the very first 27 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 1: people I asked to join me. That was in twenty 28 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 1: twenty one, and a law has happened since then, And 29 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: that's what we're going to talk about today, about the 30 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: experience of living with an extreme disease, how it's affected 31 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: her diet, where she's been, where she's going. If I 32 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: was to be asked now what I consider a true luxury, 33 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: answer would be being together right now with Tracy Emma, 34 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: an artist and a friend who I love. So that's 35 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 1: how I felt last night, you know, the incredible experience 36 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: of being there at nine o'clock at night with your work. 37 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: And I started at the beginning, I went very slowly 38 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 1: to the end. So how are you feeling about the show? 39 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: What are you thinking right now? Is it It's a 40 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,119 Speaker 1: show like no other in a place like no other, 41 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: isn't it. 42 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, Usually tape for an opening have about six hundred 43 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 2: people maximum was nine hundred once, and I. 44 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: Think there was quite a few thousand. I think, so yeah, 45 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: I know everybody, but you know, that's joyous. It was 46 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: wasn't too much for you. It was it like it 47 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: was all so fast. It was like, I know, do 48 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 1: usually get really stressed out in that sort of situation, 49 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: But I didn't because it was all too quick and 50 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: too fast, and I wish I could have enjoyed it 51 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: a bit. I enjoyed it, yeah, so yeah, but everybody 52 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: else did. If you did, the whole world saw each other, 53 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: and I saw no one. I know that often have 54 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: as as your own parties. What I do is I 55 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 1: stand sort of like in one place at the door, 56 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: and then I know I've seen everybody, and then you know, 57 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: but I think that everybody said it was just incredibly 58 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: warm and at the dinner, the way you had all 59 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: your people from Margate around you and it felt family. 60 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 1: I think you there was. It wasn't like a pretentious 61 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: dinner anything. It's just all the people that had worked 62 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: on the show and Margate. You know, I think everybody 63 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: the people I talked really remarked on that. 64 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 2: I don't like I find sometimes things that are very 65 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: incredibly formal. I find it quite difficult sometimes and. 66 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 4: Especially when you're trapped in a seat. I don't like it. 67 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: All of this sounds really pretentious, but it happens to 68 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 2: people in all walks of life, Like there's social situations 69 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: where they feel uncomfortable or where you maybe maybe you 70 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 2: don't know what to do in that situation. In the 71 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: old days, when I used to smoke, yeah, I always 72 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: had the best ask us when you could smoke inside 73 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 2: the place and I just blow it as much smoke 74 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 2: won't keep everybody away. And then when you and then 75 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: when you when you could go when you have to 76 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 2: go outside smoke. There was always this excuse to come 77 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 2: in and go out, move around whatever. And always when 78 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: I have a show, especially in London, I always talk 79 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 2: about the noise. I can hear the people in the 80 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 2: museum or the gallery, I can hear what they're saying. 81 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 2: I can feel the vibrations, and it's a strange feeling. 82 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 2: It's like not it's like being shook up or shaken. 83 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 2: And part of it is quite exciting and nice, and 84 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 2: then another part of it is very makes me nervous. 85 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 2: In two years, was there the right amount of time 86 00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 2: to get. 87 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,799 Speaker 4: It it was because it's in London. 88 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 1: What do you mean. 89 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 2: If we were doing that show abroad, it would be 90 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 2: because you have to keep flying aboard, having meetings coming back. 91 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: They come here, you go there. But because it was 92 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 2: in London, it was very it was much easier to 93 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 2: do so. But it's still all the work us to 94 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: be shipped in from all over the. 95 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 1: World, you know. 96 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: And Harry we worked with. He was the main man. 97 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 2: He did it all for the whole show. I only 98 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 2: contributed three things. I was the title A second life, 99 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 2: the color the color of hate blue kind of isn't 100 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: hate blue, but it's it's a far and ball really 101 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 2: amazing blue color. I chose that color. And the corridor 102 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 2: what I call the corridor. 103 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: That was what that was the bit that I curated 104 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: that I did. The experience of seeing that you're walking 105 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: through it is very personal. It's like being with you 106 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: and I walked in last night, walking straight into your dancing. 107 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,359 Speaker 1: That film is called Why I Never Became and we 108 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,799 Speaker 1: just talk about that and in the in the beginning 109 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: the first part you hear Why I Never Became a Dancer. 110 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: It's a story about growing up in Margate, having lots 111 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: of teenage sex but not with teenage boys with men 112 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: and how it made me feel. And the dancing at 113 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: the end is about survival. 114 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, and. 115 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 2: It's quite it's quite a sad film really, but the 116 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 2: end is triumphant. And I think when I first made 117 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 2: that film, people didn't understand it. They just didn't bother listening. 118 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 2: And now is completely People totally respond to it and 119 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 2: understand it. 120 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: Why do you think that. Do you think it's a 121 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: different generations of people who understand it. 122 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think I think now people understand about 123 00:06:55,880 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 2: you know, from me to to groom into you, coercive behavior, 124 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 2: all different things. 125 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 4: I look at it right now. Yes, the problem with. 126 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: The Epstein thing right now is that people think that 127 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 2: it happens to those people, but it doesn't. 128 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: It. 129 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 2: It happens everywhere. It's through society. It's prevalent everywhere, on 130 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: all different levels. 131 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: All these files are being released and people are reading them, 132 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: but there's no justice being done, you know, it's just 133 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: we'll give you the files. We'll just put them out 134 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: there and everybody can judge it. So we're just getting 135 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: the news of it. 136 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 2: The world is a very different place from when we 137 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 2: did our interview last time. So how can the world 138 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 2: change so radically within five years. That's because it hasn't 139 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 2: changed within five years. It's been changing for the last 140 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 2: thirty years, forty years, slowly, bit by bit, without people noticing. 141 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: Well, we met five years ago, and I agree with 142 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: you that, you know, and particularly in my world, you know, 143 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: being an American, being involved in foot politics, being you know, 144 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: you know, how you feel complicit. I think that's you 145 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: know what. There's a great interview with David Remnick with 146 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: a journalist or a young person who said, you know, 147 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: mister Remnick, I can't take the noise. We just my 148 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: gen we can't. Every day there's another thing being done 149 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: every day. You know, we're seeing the injustice and the 150 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: values and everything that's wrong happening, and it's just too much. 151 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: So many of us are sort of switching off. And 152 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: he said, well, switch off if that makes you feel better, 153 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: but just know that by switching off, you're complicit. 154 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're complicit, exactly. And you're complicit by not saying anything. 155 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,599 Speaker 2: You're complicit by not putting your head above the parapet 156 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 2: You're complicit by that makes you in agreement because you 157 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 2: want a quiet life. 158 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: Then I thought the show again, you are saying something 159 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: in that show, and that comes through very brave and 160 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,959 Speaker 1: a very honest and a very out there way of 161 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: your of your illness. And I think what you've done 162 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: in the show is both be honest to yourself and 163 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: to everyone else, but also inspiring people. I think there 164 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 1: was an inspiration. I don't know you start out. You 165 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: probably didn't start out to say I'm going to inspire 166 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: people we know, but I think we all live on 167 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: the edge of health. 168 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 2: And when I was at the Ray College of Art, 169 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 2: I used to make these very very big, sort of 170 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 2: religious paintings and. 171 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 4: They weren't religious. 172 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 2: It was just that I used to go to the 173 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 2: National Gallery but twice a week and do drawings of 174 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 2: the paintings and then make do my own versions that 175 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: had family members or friends in them or whatever. And 176 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 2: I was really interested in Byzantine frescoes that was my thing, 177 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 2: and d Monk and it wasn't. My paintings were like 178 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 2: a mixture of both these things. And I used to 179 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 2: say when I was at college that I didn't this 180 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 2: is ironic, but I didn't want to just sell paintings 181 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 2: to rich people. To my paintings to be in hospitals, 182 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 2: in public places. I wanted people to be able to 183 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 2: see them. I wanted to make a difference. But I 184 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 2: didn't realize at that time that you have to go 185 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 2: all the long way round to get your work in 186 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 2: the museums into the public places. You have to be 187 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 2: at the top of your game to have your work 188 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 2: scene publicly. So now I feel we have to show 189 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 2: it to take that. I'm just getting to wear, you know, 190 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 2: thirty five forty where I've always wanted to be, and 191 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 2: it's not been acclaimed, well known, famous artist, any of 192 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 2: that stuff. It's about having your work scene and communicating 193 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 2: what you think is important, having a voice. Some people's 194 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 2: like Matisa. Some people's voice is to make beautiful things, 195 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 2: to make people feel good about seeing something beautiful. 196 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 4: My work isn't about that. You know, you can have. 197 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 2: You can have some sort of like oldcore minimalism and 198 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 2: it's sublime and so you feel that you feel that 199 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 2: that's what you feel when you look at it. Was 200 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: I'm not doing that either. There's many artists of many rooms. 201 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 2: There's many places for artists, and I've found my place 202 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 2: and I've stuck to it and even when it wasn't popular, 203 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 2: and even though when it wasn't appreciated, I've stuck to 204 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 2: it and it's gone round into four porish. 205 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,959 Speaker 1: I was thinking that maybe doing a show is a 206 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: bit like doing a dish, you know, all the ingredients 207 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: that go into it and the performance. When I do 208 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: a meal and when I cook something or we do 209 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: something at the River Cafe, you kind of take a 210 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: long time to get ready. Takes a lot of choosing, 211 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: time of searching for the right thing, and then it's 212 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: there and then it's the public exposure. 213 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 2: Do you find But then when you're talking about memory 214 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 2: and emotion as well, tell me, so if you cook 215 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 2: a really fantastic meal, and I'm not saying if when 216 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 2: you do, yeah, people and people eat it, they have 217 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 2: this memory of the time, the moment, the taste, buds, 218 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 2: the everything, the warmth, all of that kind of thing. 219 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 2: So when you do an art expission, it's different. But 220 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 2: people will go and they will look at that image 221 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 2: for ten seconds, ten minutes, two minutes off now, then 222 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 2: it's gone. They go on to the next one, the 223 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 2: next one, and it's a memory that they have to 224 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 2: take with them of how they felt when they saw it. 225 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 2: So it's the same with you. People have will have 226 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 2: memory of when they when they laughed, what they did. 227 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 2: If people put their heart sold into something, you can 228 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 2: tell you can feel, you know. 229 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: Can you remember food that you ate that you still 230 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: remember how you felt when you were idiot? You can 231 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: feel that way with music, you can remember there's there 232 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: a memory of well, growing up with your father who 233 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: was My dad was brilliant cook. Yeah, really really good cook, 234 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: fantastic cook. My dad's cooking was like it was all 235 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: very it was all really good natural and my dad 236 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 1: was brilliant gardener, so he grow all his own vegetables 237 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: as well, and especially if I visited him in Cyprus, 238 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: it was fantastic and he would cook like just lots 239 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: and lots. 240 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 4: Of Turkish issues and just it was. 241 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 2: It was fantastic. Yeah, y, all really organic natural foods 242 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 2: as well. 243 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 1: So does it trigger memories from when you when you. 244 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 2: Have, well, it is now it is now when I'm 245 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 2: thinking about my dad, Yeah, definitely. So she was cook 246 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:02,719 Speaker 2: this thing called Lady's Finger and it was like asparagus 247 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 2: and sparagus, tomatoes like this sort of just buy and 248 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 2: beans and everything. 249 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: No, it's good. He's all his cooking was brilliant food 250 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: last figure and the impotance of what you do food. 251 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 4: So this is kind of complicated. 252 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: Food's always been an issue for me because I don't 253 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 2: know if in you first remember when you first met me, 254 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 2: I was I was very very thin, and I remember 255 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 2: coming to stay with you in Italy and I nearly 256 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 2: I was crying because there was too much dinner, you know, 257 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 2: whatever it was. 258 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 4: I couldn't go with the amount of food legg didn't you, Yeah, 259 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 4: I just mashed up leg as well. 260 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 2: It's like everything. And but for me, I used to 261 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 2: only eat when I was hungry, never, never at all 262 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 2: any other time unless I was hungry. So I could 263 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 2: go to the best dinner in the world and I 264 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 2: wouldn't eat anything because I wasn't hungry. I'd only when 265 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 2: I was hungry. So now things have changed and and 266 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 2: but I've always appreciated good food, fine dining, and presentation. 267 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 2: That's what I thought you about. Well, Like I love 268 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 2: a beautiful table, I like things to be presented beautifully. 269 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 2: I like flowers, I like but also like simplicity. I 270 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 2: don't like grandeur and grandiose things. 271 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 4: But I think if even if like my mom was 272 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 4: even if you haven't got anything, you know, but you 273 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 4: make it, you make it look beautiful, and you present it, well, 274 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 4: it's going to taste nicer. 275 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: Definitely, did you grow up so you grew up with 276 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: that ethos it was, that's something you discovered later that 277 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: you it was meal times or presenting things. 278 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 2: Meal times were different in my house because I'm single. 279 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 2: My mom was a single parent, and my mom worked 280 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 2: as a waitress in the hotel, so my mom was 281 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 2: never there at meal times, so it was always it 282 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 2: was never. 283 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 4: I can remember. 284 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 2: I can count the times that we sat at a 285 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 2: table and ate together, you know. And at Christmas, my 286 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 2: mom was always working, so our Christmas was a week 287 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 2: after Christmas. So it for me, I suppose I've always 288 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 2: been and I think then there was a time in 289 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 2: my life when I overcompensated on that, you know, like 290 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 2: I wanted to make Christmas or I wanted to have 291 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 2: every Sunday. 292 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: Have have a meal or whatever. 293 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 2: And they went through a stage where every Saturday I 294 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 2: went out to lunch to restaurants because I wanted and 295 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 2: I invite my friends and I wanted to have this almost. 296 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: Like trying to reclaim something. Yeah, exactly wherelicate's the. 297 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 2: Right word, but you actually can't. 298 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 4: So and now I'm just very. 299 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 2: When you live alone and then you eat alone, you 300 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 2: eat differently from other people who eat together. 301 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I see you are surrounded by people. No, no, no, 302 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 1: everyone think that, but you can't. You can't be surrounded 303 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: by people if you're an artist. I can't anyway. 304 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 2: I have to have I have to have real clarity 305 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 2: moments of being lone, and also have to feel lonely. 306 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,360 Speaker 2: Before I used to think that was a very negative thing. 307 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: Feeling lonely. 308 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 4: Now I realized it's not. 309 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 2: It's it's solitude, and it's a really positive feeling. So 310 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 2: I'm really looking forward to now to take things that 311 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 2: I'm really looking forward to doing in this I never 312 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,120 Speaker 2: usually see the paintings that I want to make because 313 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 2: I never know what I'm going to be doing. But 314 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 2: at the moment, I keep seeing the paintings. I see it. 315 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 2: When I'm well, I keep falling asleep in places. So 316 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 2: in this house, I've got these different colored sofas. I've 317 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 2: got a deep red one, I've got a dark green one, 318 00:17:58,280 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 2: I have the blue one. 319 00:17:59,320 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 1: Person. 320 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I thought it would be really nice for 321 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 2: me to do. Instead of just doing my usual figures 322 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 2: or whatever, I could just think. 323 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 4: About the color. 324 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 2: So this is going to be the green David, this 325 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,199 Speaker 2: is going to be the red fits for a sofa, 326 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 2: This is going to be this or whatever, and start 327 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 2: with the idea of the color with the figure instead 328 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 2: of starting from a white canvas a white canvas. Yeah yeah. 329 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 2: So and that feeling that I want to paint is 330 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 2: that solitude with the. 331 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: Art that you actually want to live with, that you 332 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: come down and see in your domestic environment. That how's 333 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: that shows. 334 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 4: There is a strange process. 335 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 2: So this to that's the painting of me and my mom, 336 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 2: painting drawing, big drawin of me and my mom. 337 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 4: And when I did that, I started doing it. 338 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 2: It was years ago and after she died, and I 339 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 2: did it three o'clock in the morning, and I thought, 340 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 2: I'm going to do a painting of just me. 341 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 4: And my mom's faces. 342 00:18:58,080 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: Just see. 343 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 2: And sometimes I have an idea to do something and 344 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 2: then I do it, and then I paint over it, 345 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 2: and then I paint something else. So and as I 346 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 2: went to draw the line through the middle of the canvas, 347 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 2: so so I have two sides. I didn't do it central, 348 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 2: and then I just carried on drawing, and then within 349 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 2: five minutes I drawn this picture of me asleep and 350 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 2: my mom's flat, and that's my mom's sitting in their chair. 351 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 2: And when I finished it the drawing, I stood back 352 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 2: and I cried and cried and cried. That's why this 353 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 2: is on the wall. Here's me and my mom. One 354 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 2: big mistake I made I lean a painting to Yale 355 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 2: from my show at Yale, And oh my god. 356 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 4: Did I regret it? 357 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 2: Because you think, you think, well, I can just hang 358 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 2: another painting next I've gotten off. 359 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 4: I can just hang another painting. 360 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 2: You can't, because it's like, and I can totally understand 361 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 2: now why lenders and collectors don't want to lend words 362 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 2: to muse two exhibitions, because it's like, like you feel. 363 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 4: Breath when it's gone. 364 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: It's like and nothing, nothing can make cup for that space, 365 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 1: because it's part of your psyche, your life that you 366 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: live with, and it's nice to have that with your 367 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: own work. 368 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: It sounds really conceited, but you know, I could hang 369 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 2: everywhere in this house and what I don't. 370 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 4: It's all chosen. 371 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 2: I have a I have David Dawson gave me it 372 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 2: Lucian Freud drawing, which is over there for my birthday 373 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 2: a few years ago. Yeah, I've got a Rebecca warren So. 374 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 2: And I'm not an art collector as such. 375 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 4: I live with art. 376 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 1: I have to have it. I feel something with it, 377 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: so I think I have. We don't have much, but 378 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: if we can look at everything, every work that I have, 379 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: and know how I felt when we bought it, given it. 380 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 1: I always say everything has a story, you know, people 381 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 1: have a story. Chair has a story, you know. It 382 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: can be a poster, it can be something you a 383 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: kid made. It can be something like that. When you 384 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: look at it, it has and then when you don't 385 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: have you miss it. 386 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 4: I really like psychometry. 387 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: What's that? 388 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 2: Psychometry is when you feel something from touching objects. So, 389 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 2: for example, these chairs really old, and you know that 390 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 2: lots of people have put their hands on these chairs, 391 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,919 Speaker 2: so you can if you really think into it, you 392 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 2: could actually imagine or feel those people. You touch a 393 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 2: table or whatever. So some people do it with psychometry. 394 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 2: Instead of them reading your palm, you say, take your 395 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 2: earring off, or you're giving them your keys, and they 396 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 2: hold it and then they they can feel it. Yeah, 397 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 2: they know they talk to you about yourself in. 398 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: Through feeling it. Let's talk about the honest because you 399 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: gave me a this or somebody in yours what you 400 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 1: can and canty. Do you want to just talk about that? 401 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: That diet, that's not what you can eat. Okay, So 402 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: there's potatoes, do fast, potatoes, white rice, pasta, rice noodles, 403 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: egg noodles, cuscus, eggs, cheese, cream, cheese, fish, chicken, mince, beef, mince, 404 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: lam ham, shrimps, prawns, crab, oysters, fresh to the steak, caviar, whitebread, avocados, skinless, 405 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: cucumber sets, soon as watermelon, papaya and mango, very ripe, banana, 406 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: well cloth, carrot, well cooked sweed, pisata, sponge, cake, custard, 407 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: desserts without fruit, ice cream, cheesecake, and sheep, spilt yilgood. 408 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: That's what you can eat. 409 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a few other things, but that's basically a 410 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 2: diet that I have and I actually don't ever eat 411 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 2: lamb hotly. But and so this so when I was 412 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 2: diagnosed with the cancer, I was really kind of focused 413 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 2: on how to deal with it. First of all, I 414 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 2: had a cancer, which is I'm not going to say terminal. 415 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,959 Speaker 2: But there's no cure for it at all, none, So 416 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 2: chema doesn't work. You can't have great radiotherapy, nothing's the 417 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 2: only thing you can do is have it cut away, 418 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 2: and usually weigh and you have it cut away, this 419 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 2: part of it is left, and that part of it 420 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 2: that is left is it's already the most aggressive cancer, 421 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,719 Speaker 2: scorn with cell cancer but inside me. So people have 422 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 2: scorn with cell cancer on the outside, but I had 423 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 2: it internally. So all you can do is take it away, 424 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 2: and it moves very very fast. It grows very fast. 425 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 2: And I knew that I was given six months to live. 426 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 2: And this I had this really drastic, dramatic surgery which 427 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:44,479 Speaker 2: I had and lear and behold they managed to get 428 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 2: rid of catch all the cancer. And every time every 429 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 2: month I had to have another scan. I had to 430 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 2: have all tests, but every month, not every six months, 431 00:23:53,520 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 2: every month, and then I only cried twice about the cancer. 432 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 4: But when my. 433 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 2: Bowels started to not work, so I have a eurostomy 434 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 2: bag which is for urine because I have my bladder removed. 435 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 2: So that's hard and tough. But one thing I didn't 436 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 2: want to do is have a colostomy bag. I didn't 437 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 2: want to have two bags, and so I have stuck 438 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 2: to this diet like because what happens is my food 439 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 2: doesn't digest properly, and because of the scar tissue, it 440 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 2: can't go through into my into my into my intestines properly, 441 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 2: and so I have to have a very low residual 442 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 2: diet like baby food. 443 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 4: Really so I can. 444 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: That's why it says you can have meat, but it 445 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: has to be ments really mint. 446 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I can't digest the food properly. And that 447 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 2: is when I got that. That is the day I 448 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 2: really cried because I was in Thailand and I was 449 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,719 Speaker 2: rushed to hospital and I nearly died, and I was 450 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 2: really lucky that I didn't end up having surgery there 451 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 2: and everything, and they were pretty brutal. I was kneel 452 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 2: by mouth for about four days and had a tube 453 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: down and they were taking the drawing the food up 454 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 2: from this way. It was pretty painful and awful. But 455 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 2: it's because of the food that I'd eaten on the 456 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 2: fly on the plane. So now before I fly, I'm 457 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 2: supposed to go like twenty four hours with just eat 458 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 2: drinking broth. 459 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: I got. 460 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 4: Yeah, flying really monks it up. 461 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: As well. 462 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 2: But it's serious, a serious thing. And there's quite a 463 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 2: lot of people who have major surgery for whatever reason 464 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 2: and they have part and they end up having to light. 465 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 2: Especially with me, if you have part of your bow 466 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 2: cut away and you have something like diverlute lightis or colitis, 467 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 2: or you will be afterwards, you won't ever eat properly 468 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 2: again or how you want to eat. 469 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 4: And at the beginning, it was heartbreaking for me. 470 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 1: What is your best? God? 471 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 4: Fruit? 472 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: Mainly fruit, because well it says here, heavyberries, seeds, nuts, 473 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 1: red meat, large cuts, green vegetables, mushrooms, oats, chickpeas, brown rice, 474 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: tomatoes or onions. Fat. 475 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 2: I can't eat, can't eat broccoli, brushes, sprouts, cabbage, peas, 476 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,640 Speaker 2: which seems so harmless little things. But I can't eat 477 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 2: peas because the skin and the peas because the skin 478 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 2: doesn't Pomegranate is one of my favorite foods. 479 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: And you can't have the juice. You can't have the 480 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: juice I suppose I could have. 481 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 4: I kind of have. The juice is really amazing. 482 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, what about alcohol? Do you miss drinking at all? Now? 483 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 4: I stop drinking. 484 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: I just stop drinking before. 485 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 4: Yeah, I stopped drinking because I fell in love and 486 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 4: I said, I saw to God, if I fell in love, 487 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 4: I'd stop drinking. And so it all came around the 488 00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 4: same time as the candas. 489 00:26:59,080 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: It was kind of. 490 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 2: Weird because I, you know, I was a big white 491 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 2: wine drinker and white wine and blood of cancer is 492 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 2: like sephuric acid going inside you. 493 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 4: It's not happening. But also it coincided with falling in loft. 494 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: So when you're open this beautiful catalog of Tracey Emmon, 495 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: and it is a beautiful catalog a second life, you 496 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: come to this page, which is the first page that 497 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: you read, and it says it's about having the ability 498 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: to change things and do things. And in my second life, 499 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: I've found that strength to do that that I didn't 500 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: have in the first life. A second life is what 501 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 1: I'm going through now, and not many people have that 502 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: chance tell me about this. 503 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 2: Well, I realized I'm with the cancer that the fact 504 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 2: that I didn't die. 505 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 4: It was like pretty incredible. 506 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 2: It's like, you know, people with cant so they know 507 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 2: that they've survived something pretty you know, horrific, and it's 508 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 2: incredible that you're still here. But what do you do 509 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 2: with that here? And all the time when I was 510 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 2: in hospital, I was thinking like, and I cannot explain 511 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 2: the amount of pain that I was in because I 512 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 2: had so much cut away. I had half my vagina cutway, 513 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 2: and it was all sewn up with barbed wire, stitches 514 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 2: and stuff like this. It wasn't just in there. It 515 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 2: was like I couldn't move, you know. It was so painful. 516 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 4: And I kept laying there thinking what happens if I died? 517 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 4: Because I didn't know. 518 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 2: I had to wait five days for the results to 519 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 2: come back and find out if they'd got the cancer. 520 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 2: And then also it was lockdown, so I couldn't have 521 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 2: any visitors, and my doctor, who's a friend as well, 522 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 2: was sneaked in and he sat there and gave me 523 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 2: this pep talk of like, you know, it probably won't 524 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 2: be good news, you know, that kind of talk because 525 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 2: they weren't expecting it to be. And my main thing 526 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 2: when I was laying there waiting for my results for 527 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 2: five days was I don't want to die being a 528 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 2: mediocre YBA. I don't want to be remembered as being 529 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,479 Speaker 2: someone that was drunk on TV in the nineties. I 530 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 2: don't want to there was and I just thought, well, 531 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 2: that's what's going to happen. That's what's going to happen 532 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 2: to me, and there'll be like some sort of a 533 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 2: bitters with pictures of me with my broken finger. And 534 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 2: I was thinking all this stuff and it was kind 535 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 2: of kind of amusing, But on the other hand, it wasn't. 536 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 2: It was like, Tracy, you should have done better than this. 537 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 2: What have you been doing with your life? What have 538 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 2: you done? They're drinking, the smoking, the party everything, and 539 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 2: you know, like when when you're at school and they 540 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 2: go and they said, you know, Tracy should have been 541 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 2: focusing more, and Tracy shouldn't have been sitting at the 542 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 2: back of the class. 543 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,479 Speaker 4: Tracy should have been at the front. That's what I 544 00:29:59,560 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 4: was thinking. 545 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 2: I should have been in the front, and I should 546 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 2: have been working harder, and I should have been focused. 547 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 2: And I didn't think at that point that I was 548 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 2: probably going to survive. 549 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 4: I didn't think it was. And also the. 550 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,719 Speaker 2: Survival rate of even the surgery is only about a 551 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 2: year and a half you live afterwards, so it's more 552 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 2: like they do the surgery just to keep you going 553 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 2: a bit longer. 554 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 4: Here I am nearly six six years later, and I'm 555 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 4: not going anywhere. 556 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 2: You know, I'm totally cancer free too, but in that situation, 557 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 2: laying in bed in the hospital during lockdown, with no 558 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 2: visitors on my own, in absolute agony, on lots of 559 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 2: morphine as well, it was like, if I got out 560 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 2: of this, I've got to. 561 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 4: Do something else. 562 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 2: But it was all kind of subconscious because I wasn't 563 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 2: expecting to get out of it. And then Margie, everything, 564 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 2: it just all fell in place, the school, everything. I 565 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 2: bought this house and I was very happy to be 566 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 2: living here, but my neighbors were renovating, so I just 567 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 2: ended up spending more and more time in Margate and 568 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 2: making that really my life there, you know. And I 569 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 2: realized how wonderful it was to go home. How many 570 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 2: people in their lifetime go home. 571 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 4: You don't. 572 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 2: You might never leave home, but going home, if you 573 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 2: go home, it means you've gone full circle. So by 574 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 2: going doing that full circle, I got quite a good 575 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 2: perspective on my life and me on what i'd been 576 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 2: and how i'd been. And I was convinced by this 577 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 2: point that I was supposed to have died. But someone 578 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 2: said somewhere, let's give her another chance, which there's something 579 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 2: good in her let's just see what happens. And I 580 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 2: feel at the moment, even with my shirt hat, I 581 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 2: haven't blown it. And the second life, I'm really having one. 582 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 2: And someone said this really good thing now after my 583 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 2: shirt at hey, I'm going to go into the third life. 584 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: It's five years from now we'll be sitting here. I'll 585 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: be thinking what was the third Also, I think what 586 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: you're saying in that was that in literature and theater 587 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: and drama and movies, that talk you gave to yourself 588 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: could have been given by somebody else. You know how 589 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: many times have we sat there as you said, you know, Tracy, 590 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: you know, teacher, you could do better. Now. I always 591 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: thought the worst phrase that my parents used to get 592 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: is Ruthie isn't working to her potential. But you didn't 593 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: get it from somebody else. You gave it to yourself. 594 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: I always have this thing, this sort of like, you know, 595 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: like with self judgment. It's like you shouldn't do something 596 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: if the person you love the most or impressed when 597 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: we impressed the most, was in the room. 598 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 2: So I know when I'm doing something wrong. Mm, Because 599 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 2: if I'm doing something wrong, I think, christ Trace, you 600 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 2: don't stop doing this because you wouldn't do this in 601 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 2: front of or so and so or so and so 602 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 2: okay or whatever. So this take God out of the equation. 603 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 2: I always think, like someone, if I'm being watched right now, 604 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 2: would I be doing this? No, I wouldn't stop doing that. 605 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 2: And it's it's like moral ethical, every on every single level. 606 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,959 Speaker 2: I pushed myself like that, but now in my second 607 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 2: life I'm much more harder on myself about it. 608 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: But do you do the reverse? You also say, good job, Tracy, 609 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 1: You've done well today. 610 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 4: Do you do that? Yeah? 611 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: I hope you do. 612 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, do you should? 613 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: I think, as you said, we've come. You came full 614 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: circle by going to market, and I think in our 615 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: conversation we've not come a circle, but we've we've gone 616 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: a few yards from where we were five years ago. 617 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 618 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm definitely in a much better place than 619 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 2: I was then, And even then I was in a 620 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 2: much better place. 621 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 4: Than I was five years before when you first met me. 622 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I don't even remember the good thing, so 623 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: I never heard that. So thank you, Racie. This is 624 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:14,439 Speaker 1: been great. Thanks thank you. Ruthie's Table four is proud 625 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 1: to support Leukemia UK. The Cartwheel for a Cure campaign 626 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: raises funds for vital research and more effective and kinder 627 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: treatments for a cue My Lord Leukemia. Please donate and 628 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:36,479 Speaker 1: to do so search Cartwheel for a Cure. Ruthie's Table 629 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: four was produced by Alex Bell, Robbie Hamilton and Zad 630 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: Rogers with Andrew Sang and Bella Selini. This has been 631 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:48,720 Speaker 1: an atomized production for iHeartMedia.