1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 2: Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. This is coming out on 4 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 2: April Fool's Day. So I wanted to find an episode 5 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 2: about some kind of historical hoax or a prank, but 6 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 2: with the times that were living in, not one in 7 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 2: which anybody got seriously hurt or killed or otherwise just harmed. 8 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 2: And also, I did not want something like the Piltdown Man, 9 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 2: which was a scientific hoax that led some researchers at 10 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 2: least just down the wrong path to wrong conclusions for years, 11 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 2: and then it helped erode the public's trust in science 12 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 2: and scientists when that hoax was exposed. So I didn't 13 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 2: want anything with consequences like that. We talked about the 14 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 2: Piltdown Man in an episode that we ran as a 15 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: Saturday Classic back in January twenty twenty two. Today's hoax 16 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 2: did lead people astray a little bit, but in a 17 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 2: way that was fairly localized, not so much fallout. It 18 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 2: was called the Pompey Stone. 19 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: The Pompy Stone was unearthed on the farm of Pilo Cleveland, 20 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: who lived in Onondaga County, New York. He lived in Watervale. 21 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: That's an area between the towns of Manlius and Pompey, 22 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: and those two towns were really interconnected, and various accounts 23 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: put Cleveland's farm in one or the other of them, 24 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: but really situated in the middle. All of this is 25 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: about fifteen miles or twenty four kilometers southeast of Syracuse. Coincidentally, 26 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: Pompey is just a few miles east of Cardiff, New York, 27 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: home to the Cardiff Giant, which would become one of 28 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: the most sensational archaeological hoaxes in US history after its 29 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: purpose discovery in eighteen sixty nine. So in eighteen twenty 30 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: or eighteen twenty one, Filo Cleveland was cutting down trees 31 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: and digging up rocks to expand a meadow on his farm, 32 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: and toward the end of the day one day, he 33 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: used an iron bar to turn a large stone out 34 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: of some damp ground. He was tired by this point, 35 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: so once he'd pried up this stone, he leaned against 36 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: a nearby stump to rest with his hands on the 37 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: top of the bar. While he was resting, his eyes 38 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: sort of fell on the stone that he had just 39 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: turned over, and he noticed that it seemed to have 40 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: some letters or markings on it. He did not really 41 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: think much of this, and after he got up again, 42 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: he put the stone on top of the pile of 43 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: rocks that he had dug up earlier in the day. 44 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,959 Speaker 1: A few days passed before he got back out there, 45 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: and in the meantime it had rained. The rain had 46 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 1: washed the dirt off of this stone, making the markings 47 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: on it a lot more obvious. The stone was about 48 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: fourteen inches long by twelve inches wide and eight inches thick, 49 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: as about thirty six by thirty x twenty centimeters. In 50 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: the center, there was an engraving that looked like a 51 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: sketch of a snake climbing a tree. There was a 52 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: phrase or a name, partly on one side of the 53 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: tree and partly on the other, and it looked like 54 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: Leod l On, almost like Leo de Leon, with a 55 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: period after Leo and the letter missing from Leon. 56 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 2: So. 57 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: On the bottom left was a Roman numeral six that's 58 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: made up of the capitol letters VII and the number 59 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: fifteen twenty, and on the bottom right was a large x, 60 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: which in some interpretations was meant to be a cross, 61 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: and that was next to some kind of indistinct shape. 62 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: If you look at photographs of this stone today, the 63 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: inscription doesn't quite look like that, because at some point 64 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: after this some unknown person altered it. So this et, 65 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: this carving, whatever you want to call it. It was 66 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: interesting enough that Cleveland invited some of his neighbors to 67 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: look at it, and then eventually he took the stone 68 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: over to a nearby blacksmith's shop. For about the next 69 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: six months, people would stop by the shop and they 70 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: would take a look at this stone, and the words 71 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: of Henry Rowe Schoolcraft, who wrote one of the earlier 72 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: printed accounts of this quote, it was not uncommon for 73 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: some of them to take a horsenail or old file 74 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: and scrape the cracks, seams and carvings till all the 75 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,799 Speaker 1: parts of the inscription were freed from dirt. The stone 76 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: was eventually taken from water Vale to Manlius, where it 77 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: remained for about a year, and during that time, in 78 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: Schoolcraft's words, it was quote visited by several gentlemen of science, 79 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: most of whom were disposed to admit that it was genuine. 80 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: He doesn't say who these gentlemen of science were or 81 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: how they made this determination, and neither does anyone else 82 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 1: who mentions them. Eventually, the stone was given to the 83 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: State Museum of the Albany Institute now known as the 84 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: Albany Institute of History and Art. 85 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 2: I like, how there's just these mysterious gentlemen of science. 86 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: Just some dudes came by, they were credentialed. It's fine, 87 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: don't they all said? They all said it was legit. 88 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 2: About twenty years passed between the stone's reported discovery and 89 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 2: the first description of it in writing that I was 90 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 2: able to find. That was in the eighteen forty one 91 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: Historical Collections of the State of New York, containing a 92 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 2: general collection of the most interesting facts, traditions, biographical sketches, anecdotes, 93 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 2: et cetera relating to its history and antiquities, with geographical 94 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 2: descriptions of every township in the state, illustrated by two 95 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 2: hundred and thirty engravings. 96 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: That was by John W. Barber and Henry Howe. These 97 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: two men wrote a lot of books like this. 98 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 2: Just the title of it reminds me of the kinds 99 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 2: of books that you would find in a touristy gift shop. 100 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 2: The books about like the state or local history and lore. 101 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 2: Barber had already written and illustrated books on the city 102 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 2: of New Haven, the states of Massachusetts and Connecticut, and 103 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 2: the whole region of New England, New York, and New 104 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,559 Speaker 2: Jersey before this book came out, and he also wrote 105 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 2: other similar books after this one came out. Howe was 106 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 2: a collaborator on some of Barber's books and also wrote 107 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 2: a number of similar history books of his own. Barbara 108 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: also wrote religious works like The Bible Looking Glass and 109 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 2: The Picture Preacher, some of which how contributed to Barber 110 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 2: and Howe. Source for the story of the Pompy Stone 111 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 2: was an unpublished history manuscript written by someone they call 112 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 2: the Reverend mister Adams. That was the Reverend John Watson Adams, 113 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 2: who worked as a school teacher in Manlius before being 114 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 2: ordained and installed as a pastor of First Presbyterian Church 115 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 2: in Syracuse. Adams died in eighteen fifty, so it's possible 116 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 2: that Barbara and Howe met him while researching this book. 117 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 2: It's possible that they also talked about the Pompy Stone 118 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 2: with locals. 119 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: Barber and Howe described this stone as being part of 120 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: the archaeological landscape of the area. Quote in the cultivation 121 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: of the lands lying upon the Onondaga Creek, Innumerable implements 122 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: of war and husbandry have been found scattered over a 123 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: territory of four or five miles in length. Swords, gun barrels, gunlocks, bayonets, balls, axes, hoes, 124 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: et cetera have been found. A stone was found in 125 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: the town of Pompey, now in the Albany Museum, about 126 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: fourteen inches long by twelve broad and eight inches in thickness. 127 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: It has in the center a figure of a tree 128 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: with a serpent climbing it, with the following inscription on 129 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: each side, and then it just kind of renders those 130 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: letters as text. Barbara and Howe offered this explanation for 131 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: how to interpret the inscription. Quote. We have here the 132 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: true chronology of the pontificate of Leo the Tenth, and 133 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: probably the year in which the inscriptions were made. The 134 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: inscriptions may be translated Leo the Tenth, by the Grace 135 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: of God, eighth year of his pontificate, fifteen twenty. This 136 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 1: stone was doubtless designed as a sepulchral monument. Ls signified 137 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: the initials of the person buried. The cross that he 138 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: was a Catholic, and the inverted you some other emblem 139 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: which is now in a great measure of fast would 140 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: Barbara and how describe as an inverted you. Other sources 141 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: have interpreted as the letter in Barber and Howe went 142 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: on to say, quote mister Adams considers that it is 143 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: not incredible that this stone was carved by a Spaniard 144 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: on or near the spot near which it was found. 145 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: Florida was discovered by the Spaniards as early as fifteen 146 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: oh two. Possibly some adventurers of this nation, allured by 147 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: the story of a lake at the north whose bottom 148 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: was lined with silver the salt at Selena Springs, traversed 149 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,599 Speaker 1: this region in pursuit of their darling object. One of 150 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: the number dying here, the survivor or survivors may have 151 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: placed this monument over his remains. These were the first 152 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: of many people to publish work about the stone, and 153 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: we'll get to more after a sponsor break four decades. 154 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 2: People seem to just take for granted that the Pompy 155 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 2: Stone was a genuine sixteenth century relic. In eighteen forty seven, 156 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 2: six years after Barber and Howe published their History of 157 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: New York, geographers, theologist and ethnologist Henry Rose Schoolcraft published 158 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 2: an edition of his book Notes on the Iroquois, or 159 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: Contributions to American History, Antiquities, and General Ethnology. Schoolcraft was 160 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 2: born in New York, and his writing career started with 161 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: accounts of his travels through Missouri and Arkansas. He was 162 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 2: appointed a Federal Indian Agent in eighteen twenty two, and 163 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 2: he married a woman named Jane Johnston, who had both Scots, 164 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 2: Irish and a Jibway heritage. Schoolcraft wrote a number of 165 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 2: books about indigenous peoples, culture, and history, including a six 166 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 2: volume work that was commissioned by Congress. The eighteen forty 167 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 2: seven edition of Notes on the Iroquois was about two 168 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 2: hundred pages longer than the one he had published a 169 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 2: year before, and it included a section called Antique Inscribed 170 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 2: Stone of Manlius. In it, Schoolcraft gave a description of 171 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 2: the poppy stone and an account of its discovery and 172 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 2: what happened to it afterward, which we read a bit 173 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 2: from earlier. Schoolcraft's interpretation of the inscription is quote by 174 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 2: the figure of a serpent climbing a tree, a well 175 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 2: known passage in the Pentitook is clearly referred to by 176 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 2: the date. The sixth year of the reign of the 177 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 2: Roman pontiff Leo the tenth has been thought to be denoted. 178 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 2: This appears to be probable less clearly from the inscriptive 179 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 2: phrase Leo delon six than from the plane date fifteen twenty, 180 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 2: being six years after this pontiff took the papal chair. 181 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 2: So the pentitook is the first five books of the 182 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 2: Christian Bible, and the most well known passage involving a 183 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 2: snake is, of course, the Book of Genesis, in which 184 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 2: a serpent tempts Eve to eat an apple. 185 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: From the tree of Knowledge. The basic assumption pretty much 186 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: across the board was that fifteen twenty was the year 187 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: that this stone had been carved, and people also assumed 188 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: that the person who did that carving was Spanish. Schoolcraft 189 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: walked through some of the proposed explanations for who this 190 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: person might have been. He said it could not have 191 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: been someone who arrived with her non Cortes, even though 192 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: Cortes arrived in southeastern Mexico in fifteen nineteen. Schoolcraft thought 193 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: Cortes and his force would have just been way too 194 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: focused on conquering the Aztec Empire to send anybody exploring 195 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: farther north until after they were done conquering the Aztec 196 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: capital in fifteen twenty one. Apparently, Schoolcraft had heard people 197 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: suggest that the stone could have been carved by someone 198 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: who arrived with Hernando de Soto, but that was impossible 199 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: since de Soto didn't even leave Spain until fifteen thirty eight. 200 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 2: Another possibility was that this was somebody who had arrived 201 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 2: with Wuamponsee de Leon, who reached Florida in fifteen thirteen. 202 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 2: As we said earlier, part of the inscription looked almost 203 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 2: like it said de Leon. Schoolcraft also vaguely suggested that 204 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 2: this rock could have been inscribe by somebody associated with 205 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 2: Portuguese explorer Gaspar Quartirial, who reached Greenland in fifteen hundred 206 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 2: and Canada in fifteen oh one. Quarteiriel disappeared on his 207 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 2: return voyage and was presumed lost at sea. His brother 208 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 2: mounted an expedition to search for him and disappeared in 209 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 2: fifteen oh two and was presumed lost as well. Schoolcraft 210 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 2: did not try to pinpoint which of these was most 211 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 2: likely to have been the source of the stone, but 212 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 2: he offered this general explanation quote. If by the prefix 213 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 2: of Leo or Lyon a compliment to a brave and 214 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 2: hardy explorer was designed to have been expressed, it would 215 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,959 Speaker 2: have well corresponded with the chivalric. 216 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: Character of that age. As a mere historical question, a 217 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: claim to the discovery of the interior of New York 218 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: by the Spanish crown might, in this view, find something 219 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: to base itself on. Schoolcraft then made it clear that 220 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: the first really concrete ofudents of a European presence in 221 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: the area traced back to the French in the mid 222 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: seventeenth century, roughly one hundred and fifty years after the 223 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 1: year inscribed on the stone. Two years after Schoolcraft published 224 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: this book, Joshua V. H. Clark of the New York 225 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: Historical Society wrote about the Pompy Stone in Onondaga, or 226 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: Reminiscences of Earlier and Later Times, being a series of 227 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: historical sketches relative to Onondaga, with notes on the several 228 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: towns in the county and Oswego. Clark used the Reverend 229 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: John Watson Adam's unpublished manuscript as a source for this book, 230 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: and he also made a couple of references to Schoolcraft's work. 231 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: His description of the stone and how it was found 232 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: is extremely similar to school Crafts, even down to the 233 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: detail of Filo Cleveland being tired and resting against a 234 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: stump with his hands on top of the bar, and 235 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: the stone being visited by quote gentlemen of science. It 236 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: is not totally clear whether Clark was paraphrasing Schoolcraft or 237 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: if both of them were actually paraphrasing Atoms, and Schoolcraft 238 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: just did not mention using atoms as a source. Clark 239 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: did not doubt that the stone was authentic. In his words, quote, 240 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: it is not at all probable that mister Cleveland or 241 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: any of the persons who first saw the stone in 242 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: the field or at the shop, could have designed or 243 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: executed the carvings. Besides, there are many persons now living 244 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: who would bear testimony to its authenticity. He concluded that 245 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: the stone might have been a memorial to someone who 246 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: had died. Quote. It may not appear incredible that a 247 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: party of Spaniards, either stimulated by the spirit of adventure 248 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: or allured by the love of gold, or driven by 249 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: some rude blast of misfortune, may have visited this region, 250 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: lost one of their number by death, and erected this 251 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: rude stone. With its simple inscription as a tribute to 252 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: his memory. 253 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 2: In eighteen fifty one, if I am George Squire published 254 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 2: Antiquities of the State of New York, being the results 255 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: of extensive original surveys and explorations, with a supplement on 256 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 2: the antiquities of the West. He gave the same basic 257 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 2: description of the Pompy Stone and how it was found 258 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 2: as the men before him had saying, quote, there seems 259 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 2: to be little doubt that the stone was found as represented, 260 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 2: and that is a genuine remnant of antiquity. Some have 261 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 2: supposed that it attests that Ponce de Leon Narvaez or 262 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 2: some other Spanish adventurer penetrated thus far to the northward 263 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 2: during the period of Spanish adventure in Florida. We haven't 264 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 2: mentioned Narvaa's before this, but we talked about his expedition 265 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 2: in North America in our episode on Estevandico in August 266 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 2: of last year. 267 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: In eighteen sixty three, Buckingham Smith submitted a paper to 268 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: the American Antiquarian Society, which society librarian S. F. Haven 269 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: summarized in his report in the Society's proceedings that year. 270 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: Tracy was not able to find the actual paper, but 271 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,959 Speaker 1: according to Haven, Smith called the stone a quote well 272 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 1: authenticated relic and suggested that the inscription may have been 273 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: abbreviating the phrase Leo Decimus, pontifix Maximus or Leo the 274 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: tenth Pope. On November eleventh, eighteen seventy nine, Henry A. Holmes, 275 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 1: librarian of the New York State Library, delivered a thirteen 276 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: page paper on the Pompy Stone before the Oneida Historical Society, 277 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: and this paper gave the most in depth and detailed 278 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: exploration of the stone's possible origins. Holmes noted that the 279 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 1: region where the stone was found was full of archaeological 280 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 1: finds related to the area's indigenous peoples, as well as 281 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: French and Dutch settlements dating back to the seventeenth century. 282 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: Holmes went on to say, quote, the genuineness of the 283 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: inscriptions upon it have never been questioned by any of 284 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: those who have written regarding them, down to mister Haven 285 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 1: of the American Antiquarian Society, who very lately has declared 286 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: them to be well authenticated. These writers have merely failed 287 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: to give explanations or conjectures regarding its origin and meaning 288 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: that have harmonized with all. 289 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 2: The facts from there, Holmes summarized the work of Clark, Schoolcraft, Squire, 290 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 2: and Smith. He said, of Schoolcraft's notations about the Pentitook 291 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 2: and Leo the Tenth and Ponce de Leon quote, his 292 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 2: contradictory conclusions only create dilemma and bewilderment. He found Clark's 293 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 2: explanations to be quote nearer to correct, though incomplete. Overall, 294 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 2: Holmes thought these earlier explanations were quote either improbable or impossible. 295 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 2: It is even now surmised that the stone might refer 296 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,479 Speaker 2: to Leo the Tenth Pope, and only for the reason 297 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 2: that he was pope from fifteen thirteen to fifteen twenty one. 298 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 2: But he was not from the town or kingdom of Leon, 299 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 2: a part of Spain, and there is nothing but the 300 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 2: date to connect the stone with him. Leo or Leon 301 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 2: is a very common name among all the Latin nations. 302 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 2: It is surmised that the name may have referenced to 303 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 2: Ponce de Leon, the discoverer of Florida. The answer is 304 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 2: that in this case there is no coincidence of a 305 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 2: name of person, but only of a name of place. 306 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 2: Holmes also pointed out that a lot of the speculation 307 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 2: around the stone's origins linked it to expeditions that happened 308 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 2: after fifteen twenty, which didn't really make any sense. Like 309 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 2: so many other people who had written before him, Holmes 310 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,719 Speaker 2: concluded that the Poppy Stone was a memorial to someone 311 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,919 Speaker 2: who had died. He interpreted the inscription as meaning in 312 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 2: the year of our Lord fifteen twenty, in the sixth month, 313 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 2: which according to old style would be September or October, Leo, 314 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,400 Speaker 2: a Spaniard of the city of Lyon in Spain, died here. 315 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 2: But he added another layer to who that person might 316 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 2: have been. Quote the Poppy Stone is a memorial stone 317 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 2: of a European, probably of a Spaniard, who, previous to 318 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 2: fifteen twenty, with one or more companions, had been made 319 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 2: a captive by the Indians in some part of North America, 320 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 2: and both had been adopted as members of the tribe 321 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 2: with which they were living, and one of them had 322 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 2: become a sakam. At the death of Leo, a surviving 323 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 2: companion carved on the stone his name, with the month 324 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 2: and year of his death and emblems of his hope 325 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 2: of an immortal life. From there, Holmes argued that this 326 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 2: person might have arrived in North America on pretty much 327 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 2: any expedition in the late fifteenth or early sixteenth century, 328 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 2: not just the ones that departed from Spain, because there 329 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 2: were people from all over Europe on every voyage. He 330 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 2: listed off a huge number of expeditions as possibilities. He 331 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 2: also speculated that there could have been other smaller voyages 332 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 2: that left Europe and never returned and were never written about, 333 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 2: and any of those could have included people from Spain. 334 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 2: He thought expeditions to the Caribbean and Central and South 335 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:25,479 Speaker 2: America were possibilities as well. Maybe people left on their 336 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 2: own and traveled north very far, all the way to Whatsound, 337 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 2: New York, and nobody ever really documented it. Holmes also 338 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 2: backed up this conclusion by noting that there was a 339 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 2: lot of writing about European contact with indigenous peoples and 340 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 2: Europeans who started living among indigenous communities in North America. 341 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: He said it would take too long to write about 342 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: all of them, but quote the original narratives and the 343 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: compilations of the historians show that there were many, either 344 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: as captives or as adopted members of the tribes living 345 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 1: with them an occasion, acting as interpreters to vessels that 346 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: touched the coast for commerce our libraries are full of 347 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: narrations of what are called Indian captives. He also speculated 348 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: that the engraving was an amalgam of Christian and Indigenous imagery. 349 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: He said that the figures on the bottom right, one 350 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: of which just looks kind of like some lines to me, 351 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: were two crossed pipes and a tobacco pouch, and those 352 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: were all meant to represent peace. He said. 353 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 2: The serpent climbing the tree merged the Biblical tree of 354 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 2: knowledge of good and evil, which Holmes said was also 355 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 2: the tree of life, with an Indigenous reverence for trees 356 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 2: and for serpents. He backed all of this up with 357 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 2: descriptions of serpent symbolism and serpent worship from indigenous communities 358 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 2: around the world. 359 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 1: Holmes also claimed that the Onondaga people worshiped a figure 360 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: called Hoda Harrow, who was depicted with snakes in his hair. 361 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: This seems to be a sort of mangled interpretation of 362 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 1: an Indigenous story about the founding of the Haddanashani Confederacy. 363 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: In that story, Tato Dajo was an Onondaga man who 364 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: was described as an evil sorcerer whose body was twisted 365 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 1: and whose hair was filled with writhing snakes. When the 366 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: Peacemaker united the nations of the Haddanashani, he had to 367 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: convince Tata Dajo to join the side of peace, and 368 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: as part of this, the Peacemaker is said to have 369 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: combed the snakes from Tato Dajo's hair. Yeah, I don't 370 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: think there's any other figure that he could have been 371 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: referring to with this kind of incorrect name of Hotaharo. 372 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: And also this was not about worshiping a figure with 373 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: snakes in their hair. Holmes concluded, quote, I think we 374 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: are authorized to regard the Pompi inscribed Stone, with its 375 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: genuineness and authenticity, as the earliest monument either in the 376 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: state of New York or in the United States, attesting 377 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: the discovery of the New World and the presence here 378 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: of the European So that was a whole lot of 379 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: writing about something that it turned out was fake. We 380 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: will get to that revelation after we pause for a 381 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: sponsor break. After Henry A. 382 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 2: Holmes delivered his paper before the Oneida Historical Society, the 383 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 2: Poppy Stone started to get some press outside of New York. 384 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 2: Harper's Weekly was based in New York City, but it 385 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 2: was distributed nationally, and it published a short write up 386 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 2: about the stone in December twentieth, eighteen seventy nine. That 387 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 2: write up called Holmes a quote, accomplished and accurate scholar. 388 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 2: In eighteen eighty five, another short piece from the Rochester 389 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 2: Post Express was picked up and published all over the country, 390 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 2: including an Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland, Minnesota, North Carolina, 391 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 2: North Dakota, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Vermont. In Wisconsin is a couple 392 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 2: of paragraphs and it said that the Pompy Stone was 393 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 2: the grave marker of a Spanish adventurer who had come 394 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 2: looking for gold, and that it was the earliest known 395 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 2: evidence of Europeans in the area. 396 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 1: In eighteen ninety four, Onondaga County started preparing for the 397 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: celebration of its centennial, and as part of that, Episcopal 398 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: Rector William Martin Beecham had the opportunity to examine the stone. 399 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: Beecham's formal education was in religion. He had a Doctor 400 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: of Sacred Theology degree, but he had also done a 401 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: lot of work in archaeology and ethnology, doing some of 402 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: this work on government commissions and serving as archaeologist of 403 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: the New York State Museum. He published at least ten 404 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: books over the course of his life. After examining the stone, 405 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 1: Beecham wrote up his findings and sent them to the 406 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: Syracuse Ernel, which printed them on June ninth, eighteen ninety four. 407 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: He said that this inscription was not as a lot 408 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: of people had supposed, etched onto the stone with a knife. 409 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: Someone had used multiple stone carving tools, including two different 410 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: cold chisels, both of them good quality. They had slightly 411 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 1: different shapes, and one of them was duller than the other. 412 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: Some of the marks had been made with a smith's punch. 413 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: These had been struck with a mallet or a hammer. 414 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: Beacham wrote, quote, a hammer, two cold chisels, and a 415 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 1: good punch would make a pretty good kit of tools 416 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: for a wandering spaniard. And he may have found these 417 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: things enough. If anyone thinks he carried them so far, 418 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: he may believe in the Pompy Stone. From there. Beecham 419 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,159 Speaker 1: pointed out that the characters in the inscription were not 420 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: sixteenth century characters. They were purely modern, which could be 421 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: confirmed by comparing them to the numerals in books printed 422 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty or two hundred year earlier. Or 423 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: to recently printed books which they matched. According to Beacham, 424 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: the shapes of the letter L and the numeral five 425 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: were particularly problematic, and there were more problems based on 426 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: the account of the stone's discovery. It was found in 427 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: a spot that was wet and strewn with boulders and 428 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: large stones. In other words, this was not a good 429 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: spot for a settlement or a grave or even a 430 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 1: temporary camp. There also wasn't an indigenous settlement known to 431 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: be nearby in fifteen twenty. In Beecham's words, quote I 432 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 1: may add that I have investigated several frauds in every 433 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: way more antique in character than this inscription. Beecham doesn't 434 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: really unpack why people were so ready to believe something that, 435 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: to him was such an obvious fake. But knowing how 436 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: much local lore there was around the stone. After he 437 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: submitted his piece to the Syracuse Journal, he braced her impact. 438 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: But then he was pleasantly surprised to hear from John E. Sweet, 439 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: whose response to Beacham's article was published in the Journal 440 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: on June eleventh. Sweet said, quote, my uncle Cyrus Avery, 441 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 1: who was born in Pompy and lived there during the 442 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 1: early part of the century told me the last time 443 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: I saw him, eighteen sixty seven, that he and his nephew, 444 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: William Willard of this city cut the figures on the 445 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: Pompy Stone, and just to see what would come of it. 446 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 1: When it came out in Clark's history, so much had 447 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: come of it they thought it best to keep still Altogether. 448 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: I have no doubt the tools were those mentioned by 449 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: mister Beecham, as such tools were exactly the ones most 450 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: likely to be at hand in grandfather Avery's blacksmith's shop 451 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: at Oran. Mister Willard's friends will hardly credit his being 452 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: interested in a practical joke of that kind. But mister Avery, 453 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: a brother of the late doctor Avery of Phoenix, was 454 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: given to just that sort of thing. Sweet went on 455 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: to say, quote, the Poppy Stone is nothing more or 456 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: less than a joke. It can hardly be called a fraud, 457 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: as it does not pretend to be anything, nor did 458 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: the makers ever do anything to make it appear that 459 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: it was. I doubt if either of them ever saw 460 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: it after it was brought to light. Really, I hardly 461 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: think the stone worth sending back to Albany. And mister 462 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: Beecham may congratulate himself upon having sized up the inscriptions 463 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: so accurately. Later on, Colonel William A. 464 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 2: Sweet corroborated John Sweet's account, and Beacham later speculated on 465 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 2: why Avery and Willard had chosen these particular words and 466 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 2: dates that they inscribed on the stone and Beacham's words quote. 467 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: The answer is simple. They were of a notable New 468 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: England family, and of course familiar with the history of 469 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: the Reformation. The year fifteen twenty saw lew There's the 470 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: renunciation of papal authority, followed immediately by his excommunication by 471 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: Leo the Tenth. No New England boy was ignorant of 472 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: the approximate date of these events. To them, they were 473 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,719 Speaker 1: the greatest in European history. When an early date was 474 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: desired one soon after the discovery by Columbus, no other 475 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: date was so likely to be used. All of this 476 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: definitively marked the Pompy Stone as a hoax, but there 477 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: were still some people who referenced it as legitimate after 478 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: this point. For example, in eighteen ninety six, the Reverend 479 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: doctor John F. Mulaney of Syracuse gave a sermon in 480 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: which he used the Pompy Stone as evidence that Spanish 481 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: Catholics had visited northeastern North America one hundred years before 482 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: Protestants arrived and before the Dutch settled on Manhattan Island. 483 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: Milaniy assumed that the stone was a marker to a 484 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: Catholic missionary who had died. A nineteen oh five article 485 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: in the New York Tribune for the stone as though 486 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: it was authentic and proof of an early Spanish presence 487 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: in New York. In nineteen thirty three, the Reverend John 488 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: Thomas Conlin published an article titled the Beginnings of Catholicism 489 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: in New Netherland, including a footnote citing the Pompy Stone 490 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: as evidence of a few Spanish Catholics in what is 491 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: now New York, noting quote, the monument is regarded as 492 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: genuine and authentic. Yeah, I suppose none of them had 493 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: heard the news today. There's a historical marker in Pompey, 494 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 1: New York, which was placed by the New York Folklore 495 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: Society William C. Pomeroy Foundation in twenty seventeen. That historical 496 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: marker is headed Legends and Lore, and it says Pompy 497 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: Stone eighteen hundreds prank believed true. There's some more text 498 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: after that, and it ends with eighteen ninety four hoax revealed. 499 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: That is the Pompy Stone. Do you have some listener mail. 500 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: It may or may not be a hoax. It is 501 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: not a hoax. It is about the unusual spelling of 502 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,239 Speaker 1: Florida from our Fort mose episode. So that's sort of 503 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: tangentially related to today since that also had a lot 504 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: of Florida discussion. This email is from Steph Dear Holly 505 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: and Tracy. I will type part of the cut time 506 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: in all caps just to avoid confusion with lowercase ls 507 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: in this email. This is about how in one of 508 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: the things that we read in the Fort Mosee episode, 509 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: the word Florida was spelled llriida all in lowercase. This 510 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: is just my intuition plus knowledge of manuscripts from studying 511 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: European history music sources. However, here goes the writer chose 512 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: to draw a somewhat confusing double f on purpose to 513 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: avoid having it perceived considering the writer's no caps writing 514 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: style as l r ida LL is of course the 515 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: the yeasma digraph in Spanish, A reader could misapprehend the 516 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: all lower case Florida as l o r ida, which 517 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: would send them down the wrong phoneme. Road, and who knows, 518 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: they might never get to f F l O r 519 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: Ida or aha Florida. And then there is a link 520 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: to a knowledgeable linguist talking about double letter usage in 521 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: modern Spanish and says this is all I've got. 522 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 2: Obviously, listeners who work with historical Spanish manuscripts more than 523 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 2: me will send you their expert and corroborated answers, which 524 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 2: you can please index above mine. Thank you for your 525 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 2: rigorously historical and gracious presence on the Internet. And then 526 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 2: there's a series of five hearts for the way you 527 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 2: always aim to recognize human dignity in your retellings, analysis 528 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 2: and remarks. Steph PPPs here is a photo of our 529 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 2: families departed, the happy dog who went by happy for short. 530 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 2: He was a short, energetic and vocal mix of rat 531 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 2: terrier plus know what and we miss him and so 532 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 2: we have a very very adorable, just very inquisitive looking 533 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 2: puppy dog, sweet baby, very sweet. Thank you so much, 534 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:18,919 Speaker 2: Steph for that email. I don't know if this explanation 535 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 2: has to do with the use of l O ri 536 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 2: ida is a spelling only because that particular thing was 537 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 2: not a Spanish document. It was English speakers coming from 538 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 2: Carolina to Florida, so it's possible, but maybe not. But 539 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 2: it is the only potential explanation we have received so 540 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 2: far as to why it may have been spelled that way. 541 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 2: So thank you again, Steph. If you would like to 542 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 2: send us a note where at history Podcasts atiheartradio dot 543 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 2: com and you can find the show notes to our 544 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 2: episode with links to all of these many things we 545 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 2: read from today missinhistory dot com, and you can subscribe 546 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 2: to the show on the iHeartRadio app and anywhere else 547 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 2: you'd like to get your podcasts. 548 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: Stuff you Missed in History. 549 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 2: Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 550 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,760 Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 551 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:21,800 Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.