Speaker 1: Show.
Speaker 2: I were in the car record studio and we're doing
Speaker 2: a podcast. You know we should do because Eddie's here
Speaker 2: as well. We should do like they do the beginning
Speaker 2: of football games. Okay, I'll go first by bones six
Speaker 2: foot one, maybe six foot and a half, one hundred
Speaker 2: and seventy five pounds, doctor, University of Arkansas.
Speaker 3: Nice already lying great, love it, but there was no lot.
Speaker 3: There's no lot, sorry, doctor, producer Eddie Sam he's the
Speaker 3: state university. Six foot zero, you're not six and eighty
Speaker 3: pounds all muscle.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, that's good.
Speaker 1: It's good. Hannah ellis about five.
Speaker 2: No, No, that wasn't a trick to get her.
Speaker 1: I was not going to anyone was no way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred pounds even I graduated from the University
Speaker 4: of Kentucky with a bachelor's to grow there.
Speaker 1: You go.
Speaker 2: She's she's die hard Kentucky.
Speaker 3: You know, Bobby's a diehard Arkansas.
Speaker 1: Ray discussed this.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. We drove around in the hunday for like fifteen
Speaker 2: minutes and they were like talk about just driving around
Speaker 2: the hoad to talk about like journey and we're like
Speaker 2: coach cow. It was very rare basketball. So That's really
Speaker 2: all we talked about. While that's the footage they have.
Speaker 2: Why did you go to Kentucky?
Speaker 4: There was only one option for me. Honestly, no, but
Speaker 4: I really I always loved the University of Kentucky. Grew
Speaker 4: up big Kentucky fan, and I did a program in
Speaker 4: high school called GSP and basically, if you completed the
Speaker 4: program and had certain testing scores ACT scores.
Speaker 1: They would give you a full ride academic scholarship.
Speaker 2: You got a full riding Kentucky I did. Would you
Speaker 2: get on your ACT I'll tell you what I got online?
Speaker 2: Twenty eight? Oh my god, Well I got a thirty.
Speaker 1: I was so mad.
Speaker 4: I wanted a thirty so bad. I took it like
Speaker 4: four times. But then you know how, like eventually it
Speaker 4: just starts going down. I was like, all right, we're
Speaker 4: gonna call this.
Speaker 2: We're good here. So this is called bronze metal syndrome.
Speaker 2: What just happened?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: So they say that at the Olympics, people that win
Speaker 2: the bronze medal are so much happier than people that
Speaker 2: win the silver medal because people that win the silver
Speaker 2: medal are like, I was so close to the gold
Speaker 2: where bronze was like, oh, man, yeah I got so
Speaker 2: I had the bronze medal there because I scored a
Speaker 2: twenty eight, and I was like, oh, I got school
Speaker 2: paid for wherever. I was pretty happy with that, and
Speaker 2: then you went, I scored twenty nine. Ah, I hated it,
Speaker 2: and she hit me with the silver medal. That's right,
Speaker 2: thirty was the goal.
Speaker 1: You're so right. I wanted. I wanted. But then you know,
Speaker 1: like you said, free school was free school?
Speaker 2: So what math was my worst?
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 4: I literally to this day it's like a joke with
Speaker 4: my band or anything I do wrong, I'll just say, yeah,
Speaker 4: I'm just really bad at math, because that's how.
Speaker 1: Bad it math.
Speaker 2: Can't you probably made it like a twenty five.
Speaker 1: I know, I won't even tell you it's actually very low.
Speaker 2: But it can't be that low if it doesn't matter.
Speaker 4: Great job twenty nine, But we're doing the math on
Speaker 4: how you get tasty.
Speaker 2: It looks like a nerd, though, like I wouldn't think
Speaker 2: she was the nerd.
Speaker 1: This was a journey. Okay, this is a journey, and.
Speaker 2: Now I guess I'm still at the beginning of mine,
Speaker 2: this journey. We're just starting on the wagon trail.
Speaker 4: That's your hometown, Campbellsville, Kentucky, about two a little over
Speaker 4: two hours northeast of here. It's two hours if I'm
Speaker 4: driving it. But yeah, real small, but not as small
Speaker 4: as yours quite. Yeah.
Speaker 2: We had seven hundred people in Mountain Pine. What your
Speaker 2: town population? Do you have a sign?
Speaker 4: I would say, I would say now, it's probably actually
Speaker 4: closer to like ten thousand because.
Speaker 2: Street crazy Wall Street, because we have.
Speaker 4: A college there, and I think that's had like a
Speaker 4: super big impact on just like people moving in and
Speaker 4: jobs and all that stuff. But still got that small
Speaker 4: town vibe.
Speaker 1: And it's definitely how I grew up.
Speaker 2: You know, musically, what was happening around your house that
Speaker 2: made you want to get in? Where'd the love of
Speaker 2: music come from?
Speaker 4: Oh gosh, from my parents big time. So they are
Speaker 4: both actually really good singers. They would sing at weddings
Speaker 4: on the weekend and they would I always say that
Speaker 4: I was singing before I was talking because I couldn't
Speaker 4: hardly form sentences. But my dad will be like, all right, now, Harmon,
Speaker 4: I was with your sister I was like three. So
Speaker 4: we came up very musical in my house, singing in church,
Speaker 4: singing in contests.
Speaker 1: And so it was always no, no, no.
Speaker 4: I mean it's just funny because like, you don't you
Speaker 4: only know what you know, right, I didn't know. I
Speaker 4: don't think I knew where songs came from. I guess
Speaker 4: I assumed the song or the artist wrote them.
Speaker 1: But then I didn't.
Speaker 4: Even get into that side of it till I was older,
Speaker 4: because yeah, there was no instruments, it was just singing.
Speaker 3: What were you listening to, like at that young age,
Speaker 3: what were you really into?
Speaker 4: Okay, So when I was like really young, we were
Speaker 4: pretty much like Christian music, only house right, like the
Speaker 4: other music we was called secular music. My first secular
Speaker 4: CD was a Martina McBride CD, which, no, yes, my mom.
Speaker 1: Bought it for me.
Speaker 4: She was like, loved Martina. My dad was always a
Speaker 4: die hard country music fan. But back in the nineties,
Speaker 4: I mean there was a lot of like cheating and
Speaker 4: drinking and my mom was like, no, no, we're not
Speaker 4: listening to that up and here, and then Martina came
Speaker 4: out and she was like, Okay, now this I can
Speaker 4: get down with. But yeah, so, I mean tons of
Speaker 4: like Kathy Tricoli, She's like a kind of a gospel.
Speaker 1: Singer back then.
Speaker 4: Now we did the Gatlin Brothers though that was that
Speaker 4: was mom approved as well, but kind of came up
Speaker 4: in that Christian world and then lots of country once
Speaker 4: I figured it out.
Speaker 2: The first time you came to Nashville, how old were you.
Speaker 1: Little?
Speaker 4: We came to auprey Land for like a vacation, so
Speaker 4: like aprey Land had rides and stuff. I don't think
Speaker 4: people even know that about Nashville now. And of course,
Speaker 4: you know, my sister aren't dressed the same because hashtag nineties,
Speaker 4: but uh yeah, we're in here like cowboy hats going
Speaker 4: to aprey Land. And that was that was probably six
Speaker 4: maybe you know, really little.
Speaker 2: When did you think that you could actually sing and
Speaker 2: make a life? Was it before college? Because you know,
Speaker 2: why do you go to college?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: So I feel like there was a when I was
Speaker 4: in like thirteen fourteen where it was like my dad
Speaker 4: and some of it were kind of like, wait, she's
Speaker 4: really good. And that was when like Leanne Rhyme's was
Speaker 4: kind of happening, and or I guess had happened. And
Speaker 4: I think there was like a moment where that was
Speaker 4: like oh maybe that and then it was like, oh wait, nevermind,
Speaker 4: We're not going to do that. She's too young.
Speaker 1: We're gonna let her make her own life choices. And
Speaker 1: then it's actually.
Speaker 4: Weird but funny story. I took my little sister to
Speaker 4: the Hannah Montana movie when I was about three months
Speaker 4: from graduating, already had my scholarship to college.
Speaker 2: So you wanted to go to the movie. You just
Speaker 2: needed a reason to say you wanted to get No. No.
Speaker 4: She was like a die hard Okay, she was a
Speaker 4: die house and I took her to the movie and
Speaker 4: I swear it was just like my come to Jesus moment.
Speaker 4: I like was like bawling by the time I leave,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, oh, I feel like this is what
Speaker 4: I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm supposed to be.
Speaker 2: This the climb. It's the climb. I knew it.
Speaker 1: And uh I go home. I'm like crying. I tell
Speaker 1: my mom, I'm like, I think I'm supposed to like
Speaker 1: be a singer. I think that's what I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 4: And she's like, let's call your dad, and so we
Speaker 4: called dad and he's like, listen, miss, I start and
Speaker 4: quit a sport every year.
Speaker 1: This is a commitment.
Speaker 4: Of this is like different than that. He said, I'll
Speaker 4: come over in the morning, we'll talk about it. So
Speaker 4: we did, and I was very much like, let's go
Speaker 4: to Nashville, let's move. And they were kind of.
Speaker 1: Like, you have free school, and we just like we
Speaker 1: need to like get you. We need you to like
Speaker 1: suss that out.
Speaker 4: And they were like, but absolutely, we will do everything
Speaker 4: we can to help you chase your music dreams.
Speaker 2: And they did did you sing in school?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, I was in show choir.
Speaker 4: I always did the contest in the small towns, you know,
Speaker 4: like I won.
Speaker 1: A couple of those where I would go to like
Speaker 1: the regional or even the state. So I was in
Speaker 1: FFA and I got to go to like.
Speaker 2: The national of that Singing of America.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's why I stayed in it for four years. Yeah.
Speaker 4: So they did a singing contest and I got to
Speaker 4: sing at Conseco Field House up in Indie and it
Speaker 4: was like thirty thousand people and I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: I'm way too comfortable doing this.
Speaker 2: I was like eighteen. I was like, yeah, and when
Speaker 2: you're at college, do you go and sing like at
Speaker 2: any bar?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Oh yeah, like the four hour shows.
Speaker 2: How do your parents feel about you singing at a
Speaker 2: bar though at eighteen?
Speaker 1: Because oh they were there, Okay, let's go yeah. Oh yeah.
Speaker 4: It was totally different at that point because it was
Speaker 4: just like, oh, this is helping her in her life
Speaker 4: and in her career. And Eddie Montgomery had a steakhouse
Speaker 4: I was like right outside of Lexington, Kentucky at the time,
Speaker 4: so I would go there and play those like four
Speaker 4: hour covers slash.
Speaker 3: Please listen to this song I wrote shows You know,
Speaker 3: what did your friends think when you were in college
Speaker 3: doing this? Because like when I was in a band too,
Speaker 3: when I met Bobby, and I'd make Bobby go to
Speaker 3: the show. A lot of times, it's just Bobby, yeah
Speaker 3: and a couple other friends, that's it.
Speaker 4: So my friends thought it was cool because I was
Speaker 4: coming back and forth to Nashville, so they were like, oh,
Speaker 4: this is like legit, she's really trying to do this.
Speaker 4: Like sometimes my friends would make me like stand on
Speaker 4: a table at one of the parties and sing to
Speaker 4: prove to some other person that I was a good singer,
Speaker 4: and I was like happily oblige.
Speaker 1: Say less.
Speaker 4: But no, I mean they were really supportive. I mean
Speaker 4: I played the ten roof up there, and they would
Speaker 4: all come out and droves. I mean it was a blast.
Speaker 4: It really was.
Speaker 2: When you finished school, how long until you packed up.
Speaker 1: And moved Not long.
Speaker 4: So I actually graduated early because I knew I wanted
Speaker 4: to come to Nashville. So I like finished all my
Speaker 4: classes in three and a half years and graduated in December,
Speaker 4: and then moved here in February. So I went home
Speaker 4: for like a month like Christmas, do it, and then
Speaker 4: I was here.
Speaker 2: And when you come to a town like Nashville, because
Speaker 2: there are different places that you can play. Had you
Speaker 2: played at all in town? Was there a place that
Speaker 2: you had called to say, I'm coming to town, can
Speaker 2: I get on stage? Did that happen at all? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So, I mean definitely the listening room.
Speaker 4: I was like emailing anybody who was getting a lot
Speaker 4: of bounce backs at the time.
Speaker 1: But I tried to get in there. I played. I
Speaker 1: played at maybe Tequila Cowboy one or two, the.
Speaker 4: Broadway things, but that wasn't really ever my thing, and
Speaker 4: I knew that wasn't and kind of be my in
Speaker 4: I would say when I really got here, I was
Speaker 4: trying to get in the songwriter community, which.
Speaker 2: Is why the listening room is probably.
Speaker 4: Exactly exactly because that was still really early in my like, oh, songwriting,
Speaker 4: co writing, that's how you develop artistry. And also there's
Speaker 4: kind of this idea, which is not wrong in Nashville, that.
Speaker 1: Like the way to a record deal is through a
Speaker 1: publishing deal.
Speaker 4: And that was definitely the thing when I moved here
Speaker 4: back in twenty thirteen, Like everybody kind of that was
Speaker 4: like the trajectory.
Speaker 1: You know, now it's so different, but so that was
Speaker 1: really the big focus.
Speaker 2: So when you move here and you want to be
Speaker 2: a songwriter and yeah, I used to be a town
Speaker 2: of get a publishing deal, right, then maybe you can
Speaker 2: write enough songs that are good songs for yourself. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So where do you go? Who do you talk to?
Speaker 2: Is there a group here that as a new writer
Speaker 2: you can go and kind of be like, hey, I'm
Speaker 2: new here, what do I do?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I mean my first stop and the first stop
Speaker 4: I tell anybody that's trying to come to town is NSAI.
Speaker 1: It's the Songwriter Association.
Speaker 4: And they're just super helpful in like connecting you with
Speaker 4: people that are where you are, right like other new
Speaker 4: writers in town other publishers that are willing to take
Speaker 4: a meeting with someone that's really really green and.
Speaker 1: Just kind of coach YOUO long.
Speaker 4: And they were hugely influential in my early days here.
Speaker 2: When you moved to town and you see that everybody
Speaker 2: else in this whole town is really good, intimidating.
Speaker 4: Oh absolutely, I mean you immediately get the uh, what
Speaker 4: is the fish?
Speaker 1: Thing?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: It's like a big fish in a small pond. You
Speaker 4: are a very very small fish in a big pond.
Speaker 4: I mean when I first moved here and I went
Speaker 4: to some shows, I thought everyone was famous because.
Speaker 1: They were so good.
Speaker 4: I was like, obviously, I just don't know who they
Speaker 4: are because I don't know what's up. But like I'm
Speaker 4: sending videos every night to my friends and family being like.
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of this person?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: And they were just like as green as I was.
Speaker 1: They were just really good, you know, but it was
Speaker 1: it was fun.
Speaker 2: Did that make you? Did it challenge you to get
Speaker 2: better and intimidate you to do both both both.
Speaker 4: I'm super competitive naturally, and so anytime I see the bar,
Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, well that's at least I have to
Speaker 4: hit that or above and Also I was just out
Speaker 4: and when I would realize that was before I knew
Speaker 4: the like way to like, oh, you can't go up
Speaker 4: and ask people.
Speaker 1: I would just like be lying it right after the show. Hi,
Speaker 1: well you're right with you know. That was so me.
Speaker 4: But you know what, it worked a lot in those
Speaker 4: early days because we were all young and trying to
Speaker 4: figure it out.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was so funny. The second show I ever.
Speaker 4: Went to in Nashville, the one where I'm taking all
Speaker 4: the videos of the people I thought was famous, it's
Speaker 4: the night I met Laney Wilson. We both had the
Speaker 4: same boots on, and so we just sat down and
Speaker 4: she was super new to town as well, and so
Speaker 4: it's like then we.
Speaker 1: Would just attack people together. It's less weird.
Speaker 3: You know, how do you find your style in a
Speaker 3: town like this when you're look in like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 3: everyone has their own thing going, Like I got to
Speaker 3: be different than everyone else.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that that was actually a bit of
Speaker 4: an issue for me on the early days, cause I was,
Speaker 4: like I said, so competitive that I was just trying
Speaker 4: to do what was already working, and so I wasn't
Speaker 4: chasing what is Hannah Ellis I was like, Okay, Taylor
Speaker 4: Swift's doing it this way. Okay, Carrie Underwoods doing it
Speaker 4: this way. And so I was more like emulating them,
Speaker 4: you know, for probably those first couple of years, and
Speaker 4: then it was like, okay, well I'm not doing that's
Speaker 4: not working. And then you do finally get to this
Speaker 4: place where you're like, oh, if I just do what
Speaker 4: I do, naturally, people seem to gravitate towards that a
Speaker 4: lot more so, I think it's just a learned art.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, to get a publishing deal, what were the steps
Speaker 2: that you went through to take a while, And what
Speaker 2: happens after you get a publishing deal? They get paid
Speaker 2: to write songs.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I would say, yeah, I mean again, I
Speaker 4: was just like I would write two and three times
Speaker 4: a day, like just as much as possible, and trying
Speaker 4: to kind of keep those connections I'd made in the
Speaker 4: early days. And I would just send them songs no
Speaker 4: matter what position, if they were A and R somewhere
Speaker 4: or if they were because I interned at Big Machine
Speaker 4: in the A and R department when I was in college,
Speaker 4: and so I kept all those relationships and so I
Speaker 4: just kind of send songs periodically and just say you.
Speaker 1: Can tell me if they suck, just help me.
Speaker 4: And so music kind of just got passed from one
Speaker 4: friend to the other, like, hey keep an eye on
Speaker 4: this girl, go see a show of hers. And Janina
Speaker 4: Appleton was at Word Country Word Entertainment started like a
Speaker 4: little country arm and she was who called me and
Speaker 4: was like, hey, I like your writing, but I also
Speaker 4: like that you write for men, because so many women
Speaker 4: were only writing girl songs and like this is like
Speaker 4: mid two thousands, I mean, there wasn't a lot of
Speaker 4: places for those to go. And so we started chatting
Speaker 4: and I got my publishing deal in twenty fifteen. And
Speaker 4: it was funny because at that time I would never
Speaker 4: say there was a moment where I wasn't an artist,
Speaker 4: but I would say I did have like, Okay, I'm
Speaker 4: a songwriter and then an artist in those moments because
Speaker 4: I was being paid to get songs cut, so I
Speaker 4: focused on that a lot. In twenty sixteen, got some
Speaker 4: cuts with like Carly Daniel, Brad Russell Diggerson, and then
Speaker 4: I was like, okay, now back to me.
Speaker 2: Is there an expectation that, Okay, I'm gonna write a
Speaker 2: song somebody's gonna put it on hold, it's gonna be good.
Speaker 2: Then they're gonna cut it. I mean, like, what's the
Speaker 2: success rated that?
Speaker 1: So I'm pointzh one.
Speaker 4: I think at first you definitely think song on hold
Speaker 4: means song cut, and then it's like there's song on hold,
Speaker 4: then there's song on hold by the artists, then there's
Speaker 4: song that's cut by the artists, then there's song that
Speaker 4: makes it on the record, like because I mean we
Speaker 4: had a huge heart breaking yeah right, It's like we
Speaker 4: had a huge heartbreak song where like I actually wrote
Speaker 4: it with my husband Nick and Josh Kerr where Keith
Speaker 4: Urban cut it, and I mean we were young songwriters
Speaker 4: and we were all freaking out then like we didn't
Speaker 4: even know until like we knew we cut it because
Speaker 4: we'd heard the cut of it. Then the record comes
Speaker 4: out and sound on the record heartbreak turn around, Tim
Speaker 4: and Faith cut it.
Speaker 1: So everybody's like, oh, they're gonna use it on their tour.
Speaker 4: Right. So in the promo video that you remember they
Speaker 4: did this big show with the Ryman. In the promo video,
Speaker 4: it's like the name of that song is on there.
Speaker 4: You can see it, you can see them singing. It
Speaker 4: didn't make the record, and it was just like that
Speaker 4: is the most classic Nashville storied. Of course, my husband
Speaker 4: Nick was like fine and putting it out myself, but
Speaker 4: he did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's like forget it.
Speaker 4: But I mean it was just such a crazy Nashville
Speaker 4: story because that's like really common.
Speaker 3: Actually, what's the money situation at this point, Like in like,
Speaker 3: are you banking on these on these to get cut
Speaker 3: and none these two? Are you kind of like, all right,
Speaker 3: I make enough now to kind of just do this
Speaker 3: and see what happens, or are you just kind of
Speaker 3: like we need we need this. No.
Speaker 4: I would say when I signed my deal, I was
Speaker 4: still working multiple jobs because like you're trying to take
Speaker 4: like the lowest pay possible just to get the deal
Speaker 4: to like get your foot in the door. So it
Speaker 4: wasn't enough to like live on I was. I was
Speaker 4: a nanny and I would work for my dad's window company,
Speaker 4: and that was that was not good.
Speaker 1: She was not a window and door salesman.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I would say the money thing was definitely
Speaker 4: interesting because your draw is whatever you agreed to.
Speaker 1: So it was a lot of odd jobs for a while.
Speaker 2: What was the next step, so you have publishing deal.
Speaker 2: You have songs that What was your first song that
Speaker 2: was cut on a record?
Speaker 4: I think the first one was I don't remember if
Speaker 4: it was the Cassidy Pope song or I think it
Speaker 4: was Daniel Bribery Messy. It was on like her record
Speaker 4: A couple a couple of records ago. And then I
Speaker 4: had one that wrote was Russell Dickerson around the same time,
Speaker 4: called would You Love Me?
Speaker 1: Those two came out.
Speaker 4: I think those were the first of that like group
Speaker 4: of artists that I got cuts with.
Speaker 2: So when they put it on hold, then when they
Speaker 2: cut it, yeah, Then when it makes the record, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: then you're like, are you just waiting for them to go?
Speaker 2: It could be the scene oh yeah.
Speaker 4: And of course everyone says that like someone someone puts
Speaker 4: that bug in your ear, whether they said that ever
Speaker 4: or or not, I don't know if it's publisher or friend.
Speaker 4: Like you're like, but maybe it's like the slowest ballad
Speaker 4: of all time, and they're like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: That's funny. When did you reshift? And I won't say
Speaker 2: you're focused, yeah, but when did you kind of move
Speaker 2: more emphasis over to now you want to be an artist?
Speaker 2: You write instead of a writer who's also an audist.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like that happened. End of twenty sixteen
Speaker 4: is when I went to Janina and was like, Hi,
Speaker 4: so here's these five songs that I would be devastated
Speaker 4: if anybody else cut because they feel so me and
Speaker 4: so like my artistry.
Speaker 1: And you know, to your.
Speaker 4: Point earlier about finding yourself without me knowing it, when
Speaker 4: I was focused on writing.
Speaker 1: For these other artists, that was actually where I.
Speaker 4: Found myself because all of a sudden, I'd write a
Speaker 4: song and I would be like, no, I will die
Speaker 4: if someone sings this and it's not me. Like that
Speaker 4: was kind of how I found It was more, Oh,
Speaker 4: I couldn't share that it has to come from me.
Speaker 4: That's my voice, not only voice, but like how I speak,
Speaker 4: how I say things. And so I came to her
Speaker 4: at the end of twenty sixteen with like a batch
Speaker 4: of songs and I was like, I want to do
Speaker 4: an EP. It can be self recorded, but as my publisher,
Speaker 4: she was like, let me just see how I can
Speaker 4: help you on this journey.
Speaker 2: Do you still have to keep thurban version of the
Speaker 2: song you wrote somewhere?
Speaker 1: Someone has it? I bet, I bet Josh Kerr has it,
Speaker 1: you go ask him.
Speaker 2: So how'd the record deal come about?
Speaker 4: You know, I was signed at Word Country, then it
Speaker 4: got bought by Curb, So my publishing kind of got
Speaker 4: swallowed up in that to where I became a Curb writer, right,
Speaker 4: so I'm in the building, and then they moved the
Speaker 4: record label over to where the publishing is, so I
Speaker 4: still had the same publisher. Jeannine she she kind of
Speaker 4: got swallowed up in that whole thing as well, and
Speaker 4: she was so she was so amazing to where she
Speaker 4: was like, I don't want to send stuff too early,
Speaker 4: but whenever we both feel like you're ready, I'm just
Speaker 4: gonna email it upstairs and see what happens. And so
Speaker 4: somewhere around twenty eighteen she started doing that and R. J.
Speaker 4: Meacham he was the or he's the head of promo
Speaker 4: over there, and he was like, oh wait, this girl's amazing.
Speaker 4: And Kurb was actively looking to sign a female and
Speaker 4: they were taking meetings kind of outside of the building,
Speaker 4: and he was kind of the one that was.
Speaker 1: Like, this girl's already here, she's in the building.
Speaker 4: We could just make all of her money. But no,
Speaker 4: So I kind of started taking meetings and then Laurel
Speaker 4: Kittlesen came over and she was actually my boss when
Speaker 4: I was an intern over at Big Machine.
Speaker 1: So it was kind of this just like perfect storm.
Speaker 4: And you know, I took a couple other label meetings
Speaker 4: at that time, but the Curb family really is a family,
Speaker 4: and I was already signed there, and I just felt
Speaker 4: really invested in as a songwriter and as an artist,
Speaker 4: and I knew that i'd be a priority, which I
Speaker 4: still feel like I am there, and not to speak
Speaker 4: for anybody else's journey, I know that's not how it
Speaker 4: always is.
Speaker 1: And so it was just like the perfect fit for me.
Speaker 3: He keeps saying meetings is this where you go into
Speaker 3: an office with a guitar and like play.
Speaker 2: For the people. Oh yeah, what's that?
Speaker 1: Like? It's awful, It's awful. I would I would not.
Speaker 4: No, It's literally like, well it's like you guys know Nashville.
Speaker 4: They're not smiling at you, they're not cheering after the song,
Speaker 4: They're just looking at you.
Speaker 1: And then you finish it and they're like, would you
Speaker 1: what's that about? Well, you heard it and you kind
Speaker 1: of should know that, you know.
Speaker 4: It's like but it was just those and then you'd
Speaker 4: leave and then like half the time and just be
Speaker 4: radio silence, and you're like just say no.
Speaker 2: Do you ever feel like you crushed it?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: And the worst thing is like there was a label
Speaker 4: actually that I met with and they were really really
Speaker 4: sweet and they were like, we really really love you,
Speaker 4: but we actually feel like we're too far down the
Speaker 4: line with this other female artist, and you know, we
Speaker 4: just feel like we've got to see this through instead.
Speaker 1: And of course you can only have one girl, facetious.
Speaker 3: Did you ever take it too far like you sing
Speaker 3: or like do a little bit too much?
Speaker 2: Oh, you take this one?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: Maybe I should have. Honestly, maybe I should have just
Speaker 1: right right. No, I feel like that I've always.
Speaker 4: Been kind of this person like, you know, I'm gonna
Speaker 4: be as much as the room needs, but also like
Speaker 4: if you're not into it, I'm not gonna like beg you.
Speaker 1: To love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The last couple of years, or maybe I will
Speaker 2: one of the last couple of years been like because
Speaker 2: we got out of the pandemic, yeah, and so everything
Speaker 2: got kind of got back to the normal. So I
Speaker 2: feel like now everything's back in whatever groove it's in, right,
Speaker 2: But it kind of set everything back. How did that
Speaker 2: timing work with your career with the pandemic and then
Speaker 2: now so insane.
Speaker 4: So I actually signed my record deal March third, which
Speaker 4: was the day after the tornado hit Nashville March third
Speaker 4: of twenty twenty. So we were supposed to have this
Speaker 4: big party that night, which we canceled obviously because like.
Speaker 1: There was like devastation everywhere.
Speaker 4: But we did go ahead and have that morning signing party,
Speaker 4: and thank god, because the world shut down the next week,
Speaker 4: so there was never a party or anything. I had
Speaker 4: a record deal and then it was like, all right,
Speaker 4: we'll see when we see you.
Speaker 1: So, I mean I didn't even get in the studio
Speaker 1: until like way later that year, cut.
Speaker 4: Some songs, tried to put something out to radio, but
Speaker 4: then the world shut down again, and it was just
Speaker 4: this a lot of back and forth that kind of
Speaker 4: was just weird and terrible timing.
Speaker 1: But then in the end, I mean.
Speaker 4: Like you said, we're back to whatever this new version
Speaker 4: of everything is, and the music industry changed a lot
Speaker 4: in that timeframe, and so I definitely think there was
Speaker 4: a level of catch up that I was playing at
Speaker 4: the end of twenty twenty because I'm like, Okay, there's
Speaker 4: like a new normal that we're trying to figure out.
Speaker 4: But then I feel like around twenty one, end of
Speaker 4: twenty one and twenty two, it's like that was when it.
Speaker 1: Really felt like we were off to the races.
Speaker 4: We started to have some success at radio, we started
Speaker 4: getting back to playing tons of shows, and you know,
Speaker 4: I mean this year I got nominated for an ACM Award,
Speaker 4: So I mean, it's been fine.
Speaker 2: It all worked out, you know, three final questions. And
Speaker 2: I think the first time that we met it was
Speaker 2: during the pandemic.
Speaker 1: It wasn't it was January of twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Is it right before the pandemic? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Right before?
Speaker 4: I mean you that was like one of the last
Speaker 4: things that we did was come not me and you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you and me? Nick, Yeah, clarify, she's being facetious. Yes,
Speaker 2: So I'll give the story. So there was a song
Speaker 2: that JP Sacks and Julia Michaels did if the word
Speaker 2: was in, then you'll get over it. And so we
Speaker 2: listened to it. But then I found you guys a
Speaker 2: song and everybody covers of everything, but I was like, man,
Speaker 2: this version is so good. So I already said that
Speaker 2: I said that like four years ago. No, we're all good,
Speaker 2: and I was like, hey, come up and play, and
Speaker 2: so you guys came up. Yeah, and that's how we met.
Speaker 2: That was right before the pandemic.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Literally, it was the last thing that we did that
Speaker 4: was like musically artistic.
Speaker 1: And then they were like, oh, stay home.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: When you hear a song on the radio for the
Speaker 3: first time, oh.
Speaker 1: It's insane, It's really insane.
Speaker 4: I mean so the first time that I heard it,
Speaker 4: just like not like going to visit a radio station
Speaker 4: or something like, I was truly.
Speaker 1: Just out living my life.
Speaker 2: Was where are you going?
Speaker 4: Nick and I went to get We were picking up
Speaker 4: lunch because we were hung over and so obviously it
Speaker 4: looked wonderful and I.
Speaker 1: Get out of the car, I go grab the food.
Speaker 4: We get back in and I thought, I like left
Speaker 4: my phone plugged in or something, and I was like,
Speaker 4: but why would I be playing my own song?
Speaker 1: And then I was like, oh, my gosh, that is
Speaker 1: actually playing on the radio, like and so we like
Speaker 1: turn it up and we're trying to film it.
Speaker 4: And it was a song that Nick and I had
Speaker 4: written together, so it was like, oh, it was insane.
Speaker 1: It was so incredible.
Speaker 2: That's the funniest first time on the radio song I.
Speaker 3: Heard, and I thought too, like all my phones on there,
Speaker 3: literally and then I was.
Speaker 4: Like, wait, why would I that's weird exactly.
Speaker 2: So we've kind of walked through your journey until today.
Speaker 2: But let's say there's uh someone that a young girl
Speaker 2: or young boy now teenager that's thinking about making the
Speaker 2: move if they want to be an artist, they want
Speaker 2: to be a songwriter, what advice would you give them
Speaker 2: before they decide to travel to Nashville, either temporarily or
Speaker 2: full time to be well what you are?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would just say authenticity over everything. I think
Speaker 4: I did lose some time in those early years trying
Speaker 4: to chase down whatever was working, and I mean you
Speaker 4: still see it in today's market. Someone will pop off
Speaker 4: and then there's four of those that come along, and
Speaker 4: I think I did that for a minute. And I
Speaker 4: think that if I could give anyone any advice, it's
Speaker 4: it's truly just lean into what comes naturally to you,
Speaker 4: how you talk, how you sing, how you create, like
Speaker 4: the community that you create, and then also just like
Speaker 4: get involved in the town. I think it's such a
Speaker 4: relational and such a community driven town. Someone once said
Speaker 4: to me, you must be present to win, and I
Speaker 4: thought that was such a great word for Nashville because.
Speaker 2: It's Oh they didn't say that was in the back
Speaker 2: of every every serial body yeah, or lottery ticket or
Speaker 2: or yeah. No, that wasn't a person that said that.
Speaker 2: It was fine. It's called fine yeah no, yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but no, Oh, it's so applicable to Nashville because
Speaker 4: I think being in the community is one of the
Speaker 4: best things that you can do for your career.
Speaker 2: Yeah, someone wants it to be shake before serving really Yeah,
Speaker 2: But then I realized it was orange juice. It's the
Speaker 2: back of an orange juice boss, and yeah, it's the
Speaker 2: whole thing. Uh, thank you for hanging out.
Speaker 1: Heck, yeah, that's so fun.
Speaker 2: I know we're gonna go and check out some some
Speaker 2: cool places that we talked about inside of of this podcast.
Speaker 2: But yeah, good to see you and congratulations on everything
Speaker 2: and the Keith Urban Tim McGraw. Uh, that story, it's
Speaker 2: super funny. That's that's probably number two or three on
Speaker 2: the list. The story about the own song. That was
Speaker 2: a good one. There are a lot of nuggets from
Speaker 2: this that I'm said. That's that's a plus, and then
Speaker 2: the fact that she credited a friend of hers with
Speaker 2: coming up with something like no, it was.
Speaker 1: No hear yeah, oh Kentucky, what are you gonna do?
Speaker 2: She's like, and he had this great vice turn around,
Speaker 2: don't drown. That's like nobot what they say when it rains.
Speaker 2: Everybody says that. Okay for podcast wise, great to see you,
Speaker 2: but we're gonna head off now. Good hit you. Bobby
Speaker 2: Bulls buy phones, m