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Speaker 1: Show.

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Speaker 2: I were in the car record studio and we're doing

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Speaker 2: a podcast. You know we should do because Eddie's here

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Speaker 2: as well. We should do like they do the beginning

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Speaker 2: of football games. Okay, I'll go first by bones six

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Speaker 2: foot one, maybe six foot and a half, one hundred

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Speaker 2: and seventy five pounds, doctor, University of Arkansas.

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Speaker 3: Nice already lying great, love it, but there was no lot.

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Speaker 3: There's no lot, sorry, doctor, producer Eddie Sam he's the

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Speaker 3: state university. Six foot zero, you're not six and eighty

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Speaker 3: pounds all muscle.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, that's good.

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Speaker 1: It's good. Hannah ellis about five.

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Speaker 2: No, No, that wasn't a trick to get her.

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Speaker 1: I was not going to anyone was no way.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred pounds even I graduated from the University

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Speaker 4: of Kentucky with a bachelor's to grow there.

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Speaker 1: You go.

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Speaker 2: She's she's die hard Kentucky.

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Speaker 3: You know, Bobby's a diehard Arkansas.

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Speaker 1: Ray discussed this.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. We drove around in the hunday for like fifteen

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Speaker 2: minutes and they were like talk about just driving around

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Speaker 2: the hoad to talk about like journey and we're like

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Speaker 2: coach cow. It was very rare basketball. So That's really

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Speaker 2: all we talked about. While that's the footage they have.

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Speaker 2: Why did you go to Kentucky?

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Speaker 4: There was only one option for me. Honestly, no, but

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Speaker 4: I really I always loved the University of Kentucky. Grew

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Speaker 4: up big Kentucky fan, and I did a program in

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Speaker 4: high school called GSP and basically, if you completed the

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Speaker 4: program and had certain testing scores ACT scores.

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Speaker 1: They would give you a full ride academic scholarship.

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Speaker 2: You got a full riding Kentucky I did. Would you

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Speaker 2: get on your ACT I'll tell you what I got online?

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Speaker 2: Twenty eight? Oh my god, Well I got a thirty.

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Speaker 1: I was so mad.

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Speaker 4: I wanted a thirty so bad. I took it like

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Speaker 4: four times. But then you know how, like eventually it

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Speaker 4: just starts going down. I was like, all right, we're

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Speaker 4: gonna call this.

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Speaker 2: We're good here. So this is called bronze metal syndrome.

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Speaker 2: What just happened?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 2: So they say that at the Olympics, people that win

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Speaker 2: the bronze medal are so much happier than people that

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Speaker 2: win the silver medal because people that win the silver

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Speaker 2: medal are like, I was so close to the gold

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Speaker 2: where bronze was like, oh, man, yeah I got so

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Speaker 2: I had the bronze medal there because I scored a

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Speaker 2: twenty eight, and I was like, oh, I got school

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Speaker 2: paid for wherever. I was pretty happy with that, and

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Speaker 2: then you went, I scored twenty nine. Ah, I hated it,

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Speaker 2: and she hit me with the silver medal. That's right,

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Speaker 2: thirty was the goal.

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Speaker 1: You're so right. I wanted. I wanted. But then you know,

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Speaker 1: like you said, free school was free school?

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Speaker 2: So what math was my worst?

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Speaker 1: That's it.

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Speaker 4: I literally to this day it's like a joke with

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Speaker 4: my band or anything I do wrong, I'll just say, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I'm just really bad at math, because that's how.

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Speaker 1: Bad it math.

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Speaker 2: Can't you probably made it like a twenty five.

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Speaker 1: I know, I won't even tell you it's actually very low.

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Speaker 2: But it can't be that low if it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 4: Great job twenty nine, But we're doing the math on

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Speaker 4: how you get tasty.

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Speaker 2: It looks like a nerd, though, like I wouldn't think

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Speaker 2: she was the nerd.

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Speaker 1: This was a journey. Okay, this is a journey, and.

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Speaker 2: Now I guess I'm still at the beginning of mine,

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Speaker 2: this journey. We're just starting on the wagon trail.

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Speaker 4: That's your hometown, Campbellsville, Kentucky, about two a little over

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Speaker 4: two hours northeast of here. It's two hours if I'm

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Speaker 4: driving it. But yeah, real small, but not as small

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Speaker 4: as yours quite. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We had seven hundred people in Mountain Pine. What your

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Speaker 2: town population? Do you have a sign?

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Speaker 4: I would say, I would say now, it's probably actually

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Speaker 4: closer to like ten thousand because.

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Speaker 2: Street crazy Wall Street, because we have.

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Speaker 4: A college there, and I think that's had like a

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Speaker 4: super big impact on just like people moving in and

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Speaker 4: jobs and all that stuff. But still got that small

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Speaker 4: town vibe.

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Speaker 1: And it's definitely how I grew up.

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Speaker 2: You know, musically, what was happening around your house that

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Speaker 2: made you want to get in? Where'd the love of

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Speaker 2: music come from?

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Speaker 4: Oh gosh, from my parents big time. So they are

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Speaker 4: both actually really good singers. They would sing at weddings

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Speaker 4: on the weekend and they would I always say that

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Speaker 4: I was singing before I was talking because I couldn't

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Speaker 4: hardly form sentences. But my dad will be like, all right, now, Harmon,

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Speaker 4: I was with your sister I was like three. So

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Speaker 4: we came up very musical in my house, singing in church,

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Speaker 4: singing in contests.

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Speaker 1: And so it was always no, no, no.

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Speaker 4: I mean it's just funny because like, you don't you

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Speaker 4: only know what you know, right, I didn't know. I

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Speaker 4: don't think I knew where songs came from. I guess

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Speaker 4: I assumed the song or the artist wrote them.

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Speaker 1: But then I didn't.

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Speaker 4: Even get into that side of it till I was older,

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Speaker 4: because yeah, there was no instruments, it was just singing.

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Speaker 3: What were you listening to, like at that young age,

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Speaker 3: what were you really into?

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Speaker 4: Okay, So when I was like really young, we were

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Speaker 4: pretty much like Christian music, only house right, like the

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Speaker 4: other music we was called secular music. My first secular

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Speaker 4: CD was a Martina McBride CD, which, no, yes, my mom.

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Speaker 1: Bought it for me.

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Speaker 4: She was like, loved Martina. My dad was always a

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Speaker 4: die hard country music fan. But back in the nineties,

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Speaker 4: I mean there was a lot of like cheating and

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Speaker 4: drinking and my mom was like, no, no, we're not

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Speaker 4: listening to that up and here, and then Martina came

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Speaker 4: out and she was like, Okay, now this I can

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Speaker 4: get down with. But yeah, so, I mean tons of

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Speaker 4: like Kathy Tricoli, She's like a kind of a gospel.

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Speaker 1: Singer back then.

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Speaker 4: Now we did the Gatlin Brothers though that was that

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Speaker 4: was mom approved as well, but kind of came up

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Speaker 4: in that Christian world and then lots of country once

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Speaker 4: I figured it out.

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Speaker 2: The first time you came to Nashville, how old were you.

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Speaker 1: Little?

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Speaker 4: We came to auprey Land for like a vacation, so

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Speaker 4: like aprey Land had rides and stuff. I don't think

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Speaker 4: people even know that about Nashville now. And of course,

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Speaker 4: you know, my sister aren't dressed the same because hashtag nineties,

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Speaker 4: but uh yeah, we're in here like cowboy hats going

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Speaker 4: to aprey Land. And that was that was probably six

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Speaker 4: maybe you know, really little.

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Speaker 2: When did you think that you could actually sing and

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Speaker 2: make a life? Was it before college? Because you know,

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Speaker 2: why do you go to college?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: So I feel like there was a when I was

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Speaker 4: in like thirteen fourteen where it was like my dad

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Speaker 4: and some of it were kind of like, wait, she's

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Speaker 4: really good. And that was when like Leanne Rhyme's was

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Speaker 4: kind of happening, and or I guess had happened. And

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Speaker 4: I think there was like a moment where that was

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Speaker 4: like oh maybe that and then it was like, oh wait, nevermind,

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Speaker 4: We're not going to do that. She's too young.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna let her make her own life choices. And

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Speaker 1: then it's actually.

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Speaker 4: Weird but funny story. I took my little sister to

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Speaker 4: the Hannah Montana movie when I was about three months

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Speaker 4: from graduating, already had my scholarship to college.

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Speaker 2: So you wanted to go to the movie. You just

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Speaker 2: needed a reason to say you wanted to get No. No.

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Speaker 4: She was like a die hard Okay, she was a

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Speaker 4: die house and I took her to the movie and

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Speaker 4: I swear it was just like my come to Jesus moment.

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Speaker 4: I like was like bawling by the time I leave,

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Speaker 4: and I'm like, oh, I feel like this is what

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Speaker 4: I'm supposed to do.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm supposed to be.

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Speaker 2: This the climb. It's the climb. I knew it.

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Speaker 1: And uh I go home. I'm like crying. I tell

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Speaker 1: my mom, I'm like, I think I'm supposed to like

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Speaker 1: be a singer. I think that's what I'm supposed to do.

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Speaker 4: And she's like, let's call your dad, and so we

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Speaker 4: called dad and he's like, listen, miss, I start and

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Speaker 4: quit a sport every year.

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Speaker 1: This is a commitment.

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Speaker 4: Of this is like different than that. He said, I'll

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Speaker 4: come over in the morning, we'll talk about it. So

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Speaker 4: we did, and I was very much like, let's go

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Speaker 4: to Nashville, let's move. And they were kind of.

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Speaker 1: Like, you have free school, and we just like we

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Speaker 1: need to like get you. We need you to like

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Speaker 1: suss that out.

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Speaker 4: And they were like, but absolutely, we will do everything

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Speaker 4: we can to help you chase your music dreams.

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Speaker 2: And they did did you sing in school?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, I was in show choir.

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Speaker 4: I always did the contest in the small towns, you know,

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Speaker 4: like I won.

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Speaker 1: A couple of those where I would go to like

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Speaker 1: the regional or even the state. So I was in

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Speaker 1: FFA and I got to go to like.

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Speaker 2: The national of that Singing of America.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's why I stayed in it for four years. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So they did a singing contest and I got to

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Speaker 4: sing at Conseco Field House up in Indie and it

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Speaker 4: was like thirty thousand people and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 4: I'm way too comfortable doing this.

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Speaker 2: I was like eighteen. I was like, yeah, and when

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Speaker 2: you're at college, do you go and sing like at

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Speaker 2: any bar?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Oh yeah, like the four hour shows.

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Speaker 2: How do your parents feel about you singing at a

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Speaker 2: bar though at eighteen?

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Speaker 1: Because oh they were there, Okay, let's go yeah. Oh yeah.

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Speaker 4: It was totally different at that point because it was

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Speaker 4: just like, oh, this is helping her in her life

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Speaker 4: and in her career. And Eddie Montgomery had a steakhouse

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Speaker 4: I was like right outside of Lexington, Kentucky at the time,

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Speaker 4: so I would go there and play those like four

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Speaker 4: hour covers slash.

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Speaker 3: Please listen to this song I wrote shows You know,

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Speaker 3: what did your friends think when you were in college

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Speaker 3: doing this? Because like when I was in a band too,

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Speaker 3: when I met Bobby, and I'd make Bobby go to

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Speaker 3: the show. A lot of times, it's just Bobby, yeah

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Speaker 3: and a couple other friends, that's it.

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Speaker 4: So my friends thought it was cool because I was

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Speaker 4: coming back and forth to Nashville, so they were like, oh,

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Speaker 4: this is like legit, she's really trying to do this.

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Speaker 4: Like sometimes my friends would make me like stand on

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Speaker 4: a table at one of the parties and sing to

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Speaker 4: prove to some other person that I was a good singer,

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Speaker 4: and I was like happily oblige.

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Speaker 1: Say less.

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Speaker 4: But no, I mean they were really supportive. I mean

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Speaker 4: I played the ten roof up there, and they would

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Speaker 4: all come out and droves. I mean it was a blast.

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Speaker 4: It really was.

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Speaker 2: When you finished school, how long until you packed up.

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Speaker 1: And moved Not long.

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Speaker 4: So I actually graduated early because I knew I wanted

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Speaker 4: to come to Nashville. So I like finished all my

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Speaker 4: classes in three and a half years and graduated in December,

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Speaker 4: and then moved here in February. So I went home

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Speaker 4: for like a month like Christmas, do it, and then

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Speaker 4: I was here.

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Speaker 2: And when you come to a town like Nashville, because

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Speaker 2: there are different places that you can play. Had you

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Speaker 2: played at all in town? Was there a place that

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Speaker 2: you had called to say, I'm coming to town, can

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Speaker 2: I get on stage? Did that happen at all? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So, I mean definitely the listening room.

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Speaker 4: I was like emailing anybody who was getting a lot

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Speaker 4: of bounce backs at the time.

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Speaker 1: But I tried to get in there. I played. I

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Speaker 1: played at maybe Tequila Cowboy one or two, the.

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Speaker 4: Broadway things, but that wasn't really ever my thing, and

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Speaker 4: I knew that wasn't and kind of be my in

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Speaker 4: I would say when I really got here, I was

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Speaker 4: trying to get in the songwriter community, which.

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Speaker 2: Is why the listening room is probably.

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Speaker 4: Exactly exactly because that was still really early in my like, oh, songwriting,

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Speaker 4: co writing, that's how you develop artistry. And also there's

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Speaker 4: kind of this idea, which is not wrong in Nashville, that.

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Speaker 1: Like the way to a record deal is through a

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Speaker 1: publishing deal.

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Speaker 4: And that was definitely the thing when I moved here

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Speaker 4: back in twenty thirteen, Like everybody kind of that was

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Speaker 4: like the trajectory.

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Speaker 1: You know, now it's so different, but so that was

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Speaker 1: really the big focus.

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Speaker 2: So when you move here and you want to be

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Speaker 2: a songwriter and yeah, I used to be a town

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Speaker 2: of get a publishing deal, right, then maybe you can

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Speaker 2: write enough songs that are good songs for yourself. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So where do you go? Who do you talk to?

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Speaker 2: Is there a group here that as a new writer

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Speaker 2: you can go and kind of be like, hey, I'm

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Speaker 2: new here, what do I do?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, I mean my first stop and the first stop

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Speaker 4: I tell anybody that's trying to come to town is NSAI.

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Speaker 1: It's the Songwriter Association.

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Speaker 4: And they're just super helpful in like connecting you with

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Speaker 4: people that are where you are, right like other new

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Speaker 4: writers in town other publishers that are willing to take

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Speaker 4: a meeting with someone that's really really green and.

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Speaker 1: Just kind of coach YOUO long.

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Speaker 4: And they were hugely influential in my early days here.

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Speaker 2: When you moved to town and you see that everybody

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Speaker 2: else in this whole town is really good, intimidating.

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Speaker 4: Oh absolutely, I mean you immediately get the uh, what

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Speaker 4: is the fish?

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Speaker 1: Thing?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 4: It's like a big fish in a small pond. You

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Speaker 4: are a very very small fish in a big pond.

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Speaker 4: I mean when I first moved here and I went

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Speaker 4: to some shows, I thought everyone was famous because.

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Speaker 1: They were so good.

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Speaker 4: I was like, obviously, I just don't know who they

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Speaker 4: are because I don't know what's up. But like I'm

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Speaker 4: sending videos every night to my friends and family being like.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of this person?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: And they were just like as green as I was.

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Speaker 1: They were just really good, you know, but it was

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Speaker 1: it was fun.

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Speaker 2: Did that make you? Did it challenge you to get

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Speaker 2: better and intimidate you to do both both both.

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Speaker 4: I'm super competitive naturally, and so anytime I see the bar,

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Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, well that's at least I have to

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Speaker 4: hit that or above and Also I was just out

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Speaker 4: and when I would realize that was before I knew

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Speaker 4: the like way to like, oh, you can't go up

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Speaker 4: and ask people.

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Speaker 1: I would just like be lying it right after the show. Hi,

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Speaker 1: well you're right with you know. That was so me.

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Speaker 4: But you know what, it worked a lot in those

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Speaker 4: early days because we were all young and trying to

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Speaker 4: figure it out.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was so funny. The second show I ever.

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Speaker 4: Went to in Nashville, the one where I'm taking all

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Speaker 4: the videos of the people I thought was famous, it's

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Speaker 4: the night I met Laney Wilson. We both had the

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Speaker 4: same boots on, and so we just sat down and

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Speaker 4: she was super new to town as well, and so

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Speaker 4: it's like then we.

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Speaker 1: Would just attack people together. It's less weird.

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Speaker 3: You know, how do you find your style in a

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Speaker 3: town like this when you're look in like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 3: everyone has their own thing going, Like I got to

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Speaker 3: be different than everyone else.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that that was actually a bit of

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Speaker 4: an issue for me on the early days, cause I was,

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Speaker 4: like I said, so competitive that I was just trying

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Speaker 4: to do what was already working, and so I wasn't

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Speaker 4: chasing what is Hannah Ellis I was like, Okay, Taylor

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Speaker 4: Swift's doing it this way. Okay, Carrie Underwoods doing it

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Speaker 4: this way. And so I was more like emulating them,

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Speaker 4: you know, for probably those first couple of years, and

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Speaker 4: then it was like, okay, well I'm not doing that's

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Speaker 4: not working. And then you do finally get to this

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Speaker 4: place where you're like, oh, if I just do what

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Speaker 4: I do, naturally, people seem to gravitate towards that a

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Speaker 4: lot more so, I think it's just a learned art.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, to get a publishing deal, what were the steps

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Speaker 2: that you went through to take a while, And what

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Speaker 2: happens after you get a publishing deal? They get paid

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Speaker 2: to write songs.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I would say, yeah, I mean again, I

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Speaker 4: was just like I would write two and three times

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Speaker 4: a day, like just as much as possible, and trying

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Speaker 4: to kind of keep those connections I'd made in the

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Speaker 4: early days. And I would just send them songs no

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Speaker 4: matter what position, if they were A and R somewhere

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Speaker 4: or if they were because I interned at Big Machine

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Speaker 4: in the A and R department when I was in college,

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Speaker 4: and so I kept all those relationships and so I

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Speaker 4: just kind of send songs periodically and just say you.

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Speaker 1: Can tell me if they suck, just help me.

347
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Speaker 4: And so music kind of just got passed from one

348
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Speaker 4: friend to the other, like, hey keep an eye on

349
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Speaker 4: this girl, go see a show of hers. And Janina

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Speaker 4: Appleton was at Word Country Word Entertainment started like a

351
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Speaker 4: little country arm and she was who called me and

352
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Speaker 4: was like, hey, I like your writing, but I also

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Speaker 4: like that you write for men, because so many women

354
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Speaker 4: were only writing girl songs and like this is like

355
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Speaker 4: mid two thousands, I mean, there wasn't a lot of

356
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Speaker 4: places for those to go. And so we started chatting

357
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Speaker 4: and I got my publishing deal in twenty fifteen. And

358
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Speaker 4: it was funny because at that time I would never

359
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Speaker 4: say there was a moment where I wasn't an artist,

360
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Speaker 4: but I would say I did have like, Okay, I'm

361
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Speaker 4: a songwriter and then an artist in those moments because

362
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Speaker 4: I was being paid to get songs cut, so I

363
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Speaker 4: focused on that a lot. In twenty sixteen, got some

364
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Speaker 4: cuts with like Carly Daniel, Brad Russell Diggerson, and then

365
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Speaker 4: I was like, okay, now back to me.

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Speaker 2: Is there an expectation that, Okay, I'm gonna write a

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Speaker 2: song somebody's gonna put it on hold, it's gonna be good.

368
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Speaker 2: Then they're gonna cut it. I mean, like, what's the

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Speaker 2: success rated that?

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Speaker 1: So I'm pointzh one.

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Speaker 4: I think at first you definitely think song on hold

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Speaker 4: means song cut, and then it's like there's song on hold,

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Speaker 4: then there's song on hold by the artists, then there's

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Speaker 4: song that's cut by the artists, then there's song that

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Speaker 4: makes it on the record, like because I mean we

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Speaker 4: had a huge heart breaking yeah right, It's like we

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Speaker 4: had a huge heartbreak song where like I actually wrote

378
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Speaker 4: it with my husband Nick and Josh Kerr where Keith

379
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Speaker 4: Urban cut it, and I mean we were young songwriters

380
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Speaker 4: and we were all freaking out then like we didn't

381
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Speaker 4: even know until like we knew we cut it because

382
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Speaker 4: we'd heard the cut of it. Then the record comes

383
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Speaker 4: out and sound on the record heartbreak turn around, Tim

384
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Speaker 4: and Faith cut it.

385
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Speaker 1: So everybody's like, oh, they're gonna use it on their tour.

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Speaker 4: Right. So in the promo video that you remember they

387
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Speaker 4: did this big show with the Ryman. In the promo video,

388
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Speaker 4: it's like the name of that song is on there.

389
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Speaker 4: You can see it, you can see them singing. It

390
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,000
Speaker 4: didn't make the record, and it was just like that

391
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,680
Speaker 4: is the most classic Nashville storied. Of course, my husband

392
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Speaker 4: Nick was like fine and putting it out myself, but

393
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Speaker 4: he did.

394
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's like forget it.

395
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Speaker 4: But I mean it was just such a crazy Nashville

396
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Speaker 4: story because that's like really common.

397
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Speaker 3: Actually, what's the money situation at this point, Like in like,

398
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Speaker 3: are you banking on these on these to get cut

399
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:35,560
Speaker 3: and none these two? Are you kind of like, all right,

400
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,080
Speaker 3: I make enough now to kind of just do this

401
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:39,680
Speaker 3: and see what happens, or are you just kind of

402
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:40,920
Speaker 3: like we need we need this. No.

403
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Speaker 4: I would say when I signed my deal, I was

404
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,680
Speaker 4: still working multiple jobs because like you're trying to take

405
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,040
Speaker 4: like the lowest pay possible just to get the deal

406
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,560
Speaker 4: to like get your foot in the door. So it

407
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,560
Speaker 4: wasn't enough to like live on I was. I was

408
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,080
Speaker 4: a nanny and I would work for my dad's window company,

409
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Speaker 4: and that was that was not good.

410
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Speaker 1: She was not a window and door salesman.

411
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Speaker 2: Uh.

412
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Speaker 4: But yeah, I would say the money thing was definitely

413
00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:10,639
Speaker 4: interesting because your draw is whatever you agreed to.

414
00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,320
Speaker 1: So it was a lot of odd jobs for a while.

415
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,320
Speaker 2: What was the next step, so you have publishing deal.

416
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,680
Speaker 2: You have songs that What was your first song that

417
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:19,280
Speaker 2: was cut on a record?

418
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:26,040
Speaker 4: I think the first one was I don't remember if

419
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:30,119
Speaker 4: it was the Cassidy Pope song or I think it

420
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,479
Speaker 4: was Daniel Bribery Messy. It was on like her record

421
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,119
Speaker 4: A couple a couple of records ago. And then I

422
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Speaker 4: had one that wrote was Russell Dickerson around the same time,

423
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:39,520
Speaker 4: called would You Love Me?

424
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Speaker 1: Those two came out.

425
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Speaker 4: I think those were the first of that like group

426
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Speaker 4: of artists that I got cuts with.

427
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Speaker 2: So when they put it on hold, then when they

428
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,000
Speaker 2: cut it, yeah, Then when it makes the record, oh yeah,

429
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,800
Speaker 2: then you're like, are you just waiting for them to go?

430
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:54,400
Speaker 2: It could be the scene oh yeah.

431
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,680
Speaker 4: And of course everyone says that like someone someone puts

432
00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 4: that bug in your ear, whether they said that ever

433
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Speaker 4: or or not, I don't know if it's publisher or friend.

434
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,200
Speaker 4: Like you're like, but maybe it's like the slowest ballad

435
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:06,760
Speaker 4: of all time, and they're like, I don't know.

436
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,160
Speaker 2: That's funny. When did you reshift? And I won't say

437
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,040
Speaker 2: you're focused, yeah, but when did you kind of move

438
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,600
Speaker 2: more emphasis over to now you want to be an artist?

439
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:21,600
Speaker 2: You write instead of a writer who's also an audist.

440
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like that happened. End of twenty sixteen

441
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:26,880
Speaker 4: is when I went to Janina and was like, Hi,

442
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,200
Speaker 4: so here's these five songs that I would be devastated

443
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,760
Speaker 4: if anybody else cut because they feel so me and

444
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:34,920
Speaker 4: so like my artistry.

445
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:35,960
Speaker 1: And you know, to your.

446
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:40,760
Speaker 4: Point earlier about finding yourself without me knowing it, when

447
00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:42,080
Speaker 4: I was focused on writing.

448
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,280
Speaker 1: For these other artists, that was actually where I.

449
00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,520
Speaker 4: Found myself because all of a sudden, I'd write a

450
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,160
Speaker 4: song and I would be like, no, I will die

451
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,639
Speaker 4: if someone sings this and it's not me. Like that

452
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,640
Speaker 4: was kind of how I found It was more, Oh,

453
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,480
Speaker 4: I couldn't share that it has to come from me.

454
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,359
Speaker 4: That's my voice, not only voice, but like how I speak,

455
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,040
Speaker 4: how I say things. And so I came to her

456
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 4: at the end of twenty sixteen with like a batch

457
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:04,240
Speaker 4: of songs and I was like, I want to do

458
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,680
Speaker 4: an EP. It can be self recorded, but as my publisher,

459
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:09,680
Speaker 4: she was like, let me just see how I can

460
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 4: help you on this journey.

461
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:12,520
Speaker 2: Do you still have to keep thurban version of the

462
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:13,440
Speaker 2: song you wrote somewhere?

463
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,320
Speaker 1: Someone has it? I bet, I bet Josh Kerr has it,

464
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:17,200
Speaker 1: you go ask him.

465
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 2: So how'd the record deal come about?

466
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,679
Speaker 4: You know, I was signed at Word Country, then it

467
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 4: got bought by Curb, So my publishing kind of got

468
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 4: swallowed up in that to where I became a Curb writer, right,

469
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:33,720
Speaker 4: so I'm in the building, and then they moved the

470
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,119
Speaker 4: record label over to where the publishing is, so I

471
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,440
Speaker 4: still had the same publisher. Jeannine she she kind of

472
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,040
Speaker 4: got swallowed up in that whole thing as well, and

473
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,320
Speaker 4: she was so she was so amazing to where she

474
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,159
Speaker 4: was like, I don't want to send stuff too early,

475
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,199
Speaker 4: but whenever we both feel like you're ready, I'm just

476
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 4: gonna email it upstairs and see what happens. And so

477
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,359
Speaker 4: somewhere around twenty eighteen she started doing that and R. J.

478
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,800
Speaker 4: Meacham he was the or he's the head of promo

479
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 4: over there, and he was like, oh wait, this girl's amazing.

480
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,679
Speaker 4: And Kurb was actively looking to sign a female and

481
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,399
Speaker 4: they were taking meetings kind of outside of the building,

482
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 4: and he was kind of the one that was.

483
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,920
Speaker 1: Like, this girl's already here, she's in the building.

484
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,240
Speaker 4: We could just make all of her money. But no,

485
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,280
Speaker 4: So I kind of started taking meetings and then Laurel

486
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,800
Speaker 4: Kittlesen came over and she was actually my boss when

487
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 4: I was an intern over at Big Machine.

488
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,480
Speaker 1: So it was kind of this just like perfect storm.

489
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,760
Speaker 4: And you know, I took a couple other label meetings

490
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 4: at that time, but the Curb family really is a family,

491
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 4: and I was already signed there, and I just felt

492
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,159
Speaker 4: really invested in as a songwriter and as an artist,

493
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 4: and I knew that i'd be a priority, which I

494
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,400
Speaker 4: still feel like I am there, and not to speak

495
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,679
Speaker 4: for anybody else's journey, I know that's not how it

496
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 4: always is.

497
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 1: And so it was just like the perfect fit for me.

498
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 3: He keeps saying meetings is this where you go into

499
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 3: an office with a guitar and like play.

500
00:20:58,600 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 2: For the people. Oh yeah, what's that?

501
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,159
Speaker 1: Like? It's awful, It's awful. I would I would not.

502
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 4: No, It's literally like, well it's like you guys know Nashville.

503
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 4: They're not smiling at you, they're not cheering after the song,

504
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 4: They're just looking at you.

505
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 1: And then you finish it and they're like, would you

506
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 1: what's that about? Well, you heard it and you kind

507
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 1: of should know that, you know.

508
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 4: It's like but it was just those and then you'd

509
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:22,960
Speaker 4: leave and then like half the time and just be

510
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 4: radio silence, and you're like just say no.

511
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 2: Do you ever feel like you crushed it?

512
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 4: Oh?

513
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 1: Yeah?

514
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,719
Speaker 4: And the worst thing is like there was a label

515
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,639
Speaker 4: actually that I met with and they were really really

516
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 4: sweet and they were like, we really really love you,

517
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,199
Speaker 4: but we actually feel like we're too far down the

518
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,439
Speaker 4: line with this other female artist, and you know, we

519
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 4: just feel like we've got to see this through instead.

520
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 1: And of course you can only have one girl, facetious.

521
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 3: Did you ever take it too far like you sing

522
00:21:58,800 --> 00:21:59,919
Speaker 3: or like do a little bit too much?

523
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 2: Oh, you take this one?

524
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 4: No?

525
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: Maybe I should have. Honestly, maybe I should have just

526
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: right right. No, I feel like that I've always.

527
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 4: Been kind of this person like, you know, I'm gonna

528
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,479
Speaker 4: be as much as the room needs, but also like

529
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,640
Speaker 4: if you're not into it, I'm not gonna like beg you.

530
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 1: To love it.

531
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. The last couple of years, or maybe I will

532
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 2: one of the last couple of years been like because

533
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 2: we got out of the pandemic, yeah, and so everything

534
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 2: got kind of got back to the normal. So I

535
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 2: feel like now everything's back in whatever groove it's in, right,

536
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,679
Speaker 2: But it kind of set everything back. How did that

537
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 2: timing work with your career with the pandemic and then

538
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 2: now so insane.

539
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 4: So I actually signed my record deal March third, which

540
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 4: was the day after the tornado hit Nashville March third

541
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 4: of twenty twenty. So we were supposed to have this

542
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,360
Speaker 4: big party that night, which we canceled obviously because like.

543
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: There was like devastation everywhere.

544
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 4: But we did go ahead and have that morning signing party,

545
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 4: and thank god, because the world shut down the next week,

546
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 4: so there was never a party or anything. I had

547
00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 4: a record deal and then it was like, all right,

548
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 4: we'll see when we see you.

549
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: So, I mean I didn't even get in the studio

550
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 1: until like way later that year, cut.

551
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 4: Some songs, tried to put something out to radio, but

552
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 4: then the world shut down again, and it was just

553
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 4: this a lot of back and forth that kind of

554
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 4: was just weird and terrible timing.

555
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 1: But then in the end, I mean.

556
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 4: Like you said, we're back to whatever this new version

557
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 4: of everything is, and the music industry changed a lot

558
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 4: in that timeframe, and so I definitely think there was

559
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 4: a level of catch up that I was playing at

560
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 4: the end of twenty twenty because I'm like, Okay, there's

561
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 4: like a new normal that we're trying to figure out.

562
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 4: But then I feel like around twenty one, end of

563
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 4: twenty one and twenty two, it's like that was when it.

564
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 1: Really felt like we were off to the races.

565
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,640
Speaker 4: We started to have some success at radio, we started

566
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,679
Speaker 4: getting back to playing tons of shows, and you know,

567
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 4: I mean this year I got nominated for an ACM Award,

568
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 4: So I mean, it's been fine.

569
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 2: It all worked out, you know, three final questions. And

570
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 2: I think the first time that we met it was

571
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 2: during the pandemic.

572
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: It wasn't it was January of twenty twenty.

573
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 2: Is it right before the pandemic? Yeah?

574
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: Right before?

575
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 4: I mean you that was like one of the last

576
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 4: things that we did was come not me and you?

577
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, you and me? Nick, Yeah, clarify, she's being facetious. Yes,

578
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 2: So I'll give the story. So there was a song

579
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 2: that JP Sacks and Julia Michaels did if the word

580
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 2: was in, then you'll get over it. And so we

581
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 2: listened to it. But then I found you guys a

582
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 2: song and everybody covers of everything, but I was like, man,

583
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 2: this version is so good. So I already said that

584
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 2: I said that like four years ago. No, we're all good,

585
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 2: and I was like, hey, come up and play, and

586
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 2: so you guys came up. Yeah, and that's how we met.

587
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 2: That was right before the pandemic.

588
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

589
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 4: Literally, it was the last thing that we did that

590
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 4: was like musically artistic.

591
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: And then they were like, oh, stay home.

592
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

593
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 3: When you hear a song on the radio for the

594
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 3: first time, oh.

595
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 1: It's insane, It's really insane.

596
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 4: I mean so the first time that I heard it,

597
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 4: just like not like going to visit a radio station

598
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 4: or something like, I was truly.

599
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: Just out living my life.

600
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 2: Was where are you going?

601
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 4: Nick and I went to get We were picking up

602
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 4: lunch because we were hung over and so obviously it

603
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 4: looked wonderful and I.

604
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: Get out of the car, I go grab the food.

605
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 4: We get back in and I thought, I like left

606
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 4: my phone plugged in or something, and I was like,

607
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 4: but why would I be playing my own song?

608
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 1: And then I was like, oh, my gosh, that is

609
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: actually playing on the radio, like and so we like

610
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: turn it up and we're trying to film it.

611
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 4: And it was a song that Nick and I had

612
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 4: written together, so it was like, oh, it was insane.

613
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: It was so incredible.

614
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 2: That's the funniest first time on the radio song I.

615
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 3: Heard, and I thought too, like all my phones on there,

616
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 3: literally and then I was.

617
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 4: Like, wait, why would I that's weird exactly.

618
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 2: So we've kind of walked through your journey until today.

619
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 2: But let's say there's uh someone that a young girl

620
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 2: or young boy now teenager that's thinking about making the

621
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 2: move if they want to be an artist, they want

622
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 2: to be a songwriter, what advice would you give them

623
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 2: before they decide to travel to Nashville, either temporarily or

624
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 2: full time to be well what you are?

625
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would just say authenticity over everything. I think

626
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 4: I did lose some time in those early years trying

627
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 4: to chase down whatever was working, and I mean you

628
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 4: still see it in today's market. Someone will pop off

629
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 4: and then there's four of those that come along, and

630
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 4: I think I did that for a minute. And I

631
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 4: think that if I could give anyone any advice, it's

632
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 4: it's truly just lean into what comes naturally to you,

633
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 4: how you talk, how you sing, how you create, like

634
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 4: the community that you create, and then also just like

635
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 4: get involved in the town. I think it's such a

636
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 4: relational and such a community driven town. Someone once said

637
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 4: to me, you must be present to win, and I

638
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 4: thought that was such a great word for Nashville because.

639
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 2: It's Oh they didn't say that was in the back

640
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 2: of every every serial body yeah, or lottery ticket or

641
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 2: or yeah. No, that wasn't a person that said that.

642
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 2: It was fine. It's called fine yeah no, yeah.

643
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, but no, Oh, it's so applicable to Nashville because

644
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 4: I think being in the community is one of the

645
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 4: best things that you can do for your career.

646
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, someone wants it to be shake before serving really Yeah,

647
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 2: But then I realized it was orange juice. It's the

648
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 2: back of an orange juice boss, and yeah, it's the

649
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 2: whole thing. Uh, thank you for hanging out.

650
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: Heck, yeah, that's so fun.

651
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 2: I know we're gonna go and check out some some

652
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 2: cool places that we talked about inside of of this podcast.

653
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 2: But yeah, good to see you and congratulations on everything

654
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 2: and the Keith Urban Tim McGraw. Uh, that story, it's

655
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 2: super funny. That's that's probably number two or three on

656
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 2: the list. The story about the own song. That was

657
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,959
Speaker 2: a good one. There are a lot of nuggets from

658
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 2: this that I'm said. That's that's a plus, and then

659
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 2: the fact that she credited a friend of hers with

660
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 2: coming up with something like no, it was.

661
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: No hear yeah, oh Kentucky, what are you gonna do?

662
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 2: She's like, and he had this great vice turn around,

663
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 2: don't drown. That's like nobot what they say when it rains.

664
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 2: Everybody says that. Okay for podcast wise, great to see you,

665
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,479
Speaker 2: but we're gonna head off now. Good hit you. Bobby

666
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 2: Bulls buy phones, m