1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to cool people who did cool stuff. 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: It's a podcast. The guests is Garrison, the producer is 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: Sophie Garrison. How are you doing. I'm doing very well. Excellent, Sophie. 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: How are you doing? I'm doing very well. Everyone's doing 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: so festive and cheery, and so I'm festively jovial. Let's 6 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: do this all right, very Saturnalia chaos pilled so yeah, yeah, 7 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: and our audio is done by Ian our music is 8 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: done by own women. In part one we learned all 9 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: about the pagan ship Christmas borrowed from today. We're talking 10 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 1: about my favorite Christmas, which is medieval Christmas. Medieval Christians 11 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: had not forgotten their pagan roots. They were again this 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: is purely from my point of view, basically just pagan 13 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: to like cross themselves and went to church sometimes because 14 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: otherwise people were just talking to them at Latin and 15 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: they just kept being doing whatever they wanted to do. 16 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: That is my totally historical I'm an anthropologist. Anyway, Christmas 17 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: in medieval England was a lot of fun for starters. 18 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: There's twelve days of it, like the song on Christmas Day, 19 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: their church services there was then there was drinking, feasting 20 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: and games for about two weeks. The twelfth day of 21 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: Christmas was called Epiphany or sometimes just twelfth Day, and 22 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: it is more important in Christmas Day. In medieval Christmas, 23 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,479 Speaker 1: it represents when the three wizards we talked about last 24 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: time who totally belong. It's like it's like if you're 25 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: reading a story where there's only one wizard, and then 26 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: all of a sudden there's like a reference to three 27 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: other wizards and they're just never talked about again because 28 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: like in in like Christianity, no one can do magic, 29 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: but like God, right, but then there's just some fucking wizards. Yeah, 30 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: I mean there, I mean there, there is. There is 31 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: a few other other there is a few other people 32 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: who do magic in the Old Testament. But it's like, oh, yeah, 33 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: that's true. If you do it, you're basically working with 34 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: demons or Satan. It's like you can't do it, it's 35 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: just evil. Yeah. And then of course like Agnostic Christianity, 36 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: everyone can do magic because everyone is Jesus. All right, 37 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: what's that meme? I would like to know more about 38 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: your religion and please give me a pamphlet. There's like 39 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: a meme where people are like someone says something they 40 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: think is cool. And it's not like a meme, like 41 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: an image meme. It's like a a thing people say 42 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: on the internet maybe who says that? Where someone says 43 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: something and you're like, I would like to know more 44 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: about your religion, Please give me a pamphlet. Anyway, Epiphany 45 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: represents when the three Wizards showed up and we're like, damn, 46 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: this kid is important. I think his dad is gone. 47 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: In a couple hundred years from now, it's gonna be 48 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: a big fuss about whether that means it literally or not, 49 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: because spoiler, early Christianity spent a lot of time getting 50 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: into the very heated debates with some death involved about 51 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: whether or not Jesus was the Son of God or 52 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: God literally or whatever any of that ship means. And 53 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: and unfortunately the Catholics won that debate and the Gnostics 54 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: didn't boo boo, Although would we be sitting here like 55 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: right now years later if the Gnostics had won, the 56 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: Nats would have come into power and they would have 57 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 1: been just but they would have been just a shitty 58 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, I I because like the Gnostics are 59 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: way less hierarchical than the Catholics. Catholic maybe like casultism 60 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: is so built on hierarchy, like they built a hierarchy 61 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: of angels. They build a hierarchy of like of of 62 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: of like hell reality, whereas the Gnostics are like, everyone 63 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: can be their own savior and we should we should 64 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: all fight the demiurge, like we we need to fight 65 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: God and become our own savior. Generally way more decentralized, right, 66 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: But the Protestant Revolution was also the decentralization of religious authority, 67 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: and it did not It was at best a lateral 68 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: move in terms of actual liberation for the world because 69 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: it made everyone cops instead of one cop far away 70 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: that you can ignore. Yeah, I mean, I'm not trying 71 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: to come for the Gnostics. I'm just like, I just 72 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: think it'd be really funny and interested if, like the 73 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: Gnostics said, on that fight and then the Catholics have 74 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: been like a cool underground one that like people totally possible. 75 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: It's that that is that is that is definitely completely 76 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: possible that the world would have been just as shitty. 77 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: But there's no interesting because it's it's such a different theology. Yeah. Anyway, Uh, 78 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: thanks for coming down that with me. So Midnight Mass 79 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: has been part of Christmas since basically forever, starting around 80 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: four d because Christ, who's totally not the sun, was 81 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: born at exactly the darkest time of the darkest night 82 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: of the year, just when the sun starts returning. Totally unrelatedly, 83 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: it's just a weird coincidence of when he when his 84 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: mom got knocked up by an angel. Funny how that 85 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: worked out. Yeah. St. Nicholas got attached to Christmas when 86 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: the Protestants, who are trying to phase out all the 87 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: pagan holidays and fun in general, they especially the Puritans, 88 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: they crammed him into Christmas instead of his traditional day 89 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: December six, which is the day that everyone used to 90 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: give people presents. People gave each other presents a lot 91 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: during a lot of these times, but like giving kids 92 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: presence was like a St. Nicholas Day thing, and in 93 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: some place, I think it still is. And then they 94 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: were like, no, it needs to be like the presence 95 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 1: need to somehow be like God presence, not St. Presence. 96 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: So it got moved to Christmas so we could put 97 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: the Christ in Christmas, you know. And St. Nick himself 98 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: was kind of interesting his own right. His whole thing 99 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: was he like gave sh it away to people just 100 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: like all right, it seems it seemed like he was 101 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: kind to sex workers, which is nice. I guess it's 102 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: the main way to judge someone, honestly. Anyway, medieval peasants 103 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: they remembered some of those pagan roots and because of 104 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: that there was ritual transvestism as part of Christmas continuing 105 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: to be extremely based, and there was feasting and merriment, etcetera. 106 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: And the Church didn't like this. They just couldn't do 107 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: anything about it. They tried, They tried two different things. 108 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: It's the same two things that everyone uses to try 109 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 1: and stop the power of Christmas. First you try repress 110 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: and then when that doesn't work, you try co option 111 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 1: if you can't beat them joint of Yeah, basically that 112 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: is what happened, is the Catholic Church didn't steal Christmas. 113 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: Catholic Church acquiesced and joined Christmas. Is how is my 114 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: reading on this? Yeah. In seven the year seven forty two, 115 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: a bishop wrote to complain about the quote singing and 116 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: dancing in the streets and pagan style heathen acclamations and 117 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: sacrilegious songs, banquets by day and night, the wearing and 118 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: selling by women of flactories and ligatures, which I think 119 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: means like sex charms and love charms. Okay, okay. They 120 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: did better with co option, and they really worked on 121 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: the sanitization of Christmas. And that's the the real war 122 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: against Christmas is the sanitization of it. The gift giving 123 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: got replaced, as you pointed out, by gifts of the magi, 124 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: and the whole thing was treated as if it was 125 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: about Christ or whatever. But the cool ship continued to 126 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: filter through. Take Christmas carols. The medieval versions of Christmas 127 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: carols were based on a pre Christian style of singing 128 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: where a leader sang a verse and then a crew 129 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: of dancers sang and danced the chorus together. And this 130 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: got lewd, And I am so annoyed that I could 131 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: not find more information in history besides it got lewd. Okay, okay, 132 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: I would I would love to see. Yeah, what the 133 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: two things in all of the history should I read? 134 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: The two things that are written out of it? It 135 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: is fucking sex, working drugs like any hedonism and and sex. 136 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: All the people that write this stuff down are all nerds, 137 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: and the wrong kind of nerds. Yeah, none of them 138 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: actually do the cool stuff. They're all like they're yeah, yeah, 139 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: they're like he he he, it got lewd. I'm like, 140 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: does that mean they showed their ankles or were their 141 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: orgies in the streets? Yeah, because they're entirely possible. I 142 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: know people did weird ship. People still do weird ship 143 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: right now. In any given town. You could go to 144 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: a club where people are like t he he, I 145 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: can see that person's ankle, or you can go join 146 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: a weird public orgy like it still happens. So then 147 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: there's the Feast of the Innocence, which is a feast 148 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: day that gets it. It gets assigned to a bunch 149 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: of different days in different traditions and calendars and ship. 150 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: It's usually decembery and the current whatever, but I'm gonna 151 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: call it December. And the Feast of the Innocence is weird. 152 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: It's about when King Herod of Syria killed all the 153 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: boys under two years old, like tens of thousands of kids. 154 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: This is probably folklore. It probably didn't happen, I don't know, 155 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: Like the Bible, I guess, And these kids are seen 156 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: as the first martyrs of Christianity. And I've read two 157 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: versions of what happens on the Feast Day of the 158 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: Feast of Innocence in the in the medieval tradition. They 159 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: are very different takes on what happened on this day. 160 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: One is sick. It's a role reversal for kids and adults. 161 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 1: You go, there's like just it's just a chaos day. 162 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,199 Speaker 1: Kids run around, the kids like run the Catholic mass. Uh. 163 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: They tell everyone what to do. The parents have to 164 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: listen to the kids. And there's another version of the 165 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 1: Feast of the Innocence, which is like this shitty game 166 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: of hide and seek where all the kids hide and 167 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: then the parents try to find them, and if they 168 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: find the children, they beat them. What the FUCKA whoa? 169 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: Those are so different, They're so different. What is going on? 170 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. I the subtext of the beat the 171 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: kids one is a little bit like the parents might 172 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: not have tried to find the kids. It might have 173 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: been like get out of our hair, or will hit you? Okay, 174 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: we want to have like yeah, yeah, mommy adult time 175 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: or whatever. I don't know, I can't I'm so annoyed, 176 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: you know, like sometimes sometimes in these episodes, I wish 177 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: I had like months per episode, you know, yeah, because 178 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: that is that was I mean is it likely that 179 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: just like both happened at different places. And honestly that's yeah, 180 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 1: because we're talking about like medieval England. I'm talking about 181 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: like five hundred fifteen hundred in the entire continent of 182 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: because it's like one of those is much more similar 183 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: to like the Saturnalia role reversal thing, and the other 184 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: one is just child abuse. Yeah, totally, and there's more 185 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: role reversal. That's a hard that is a hard thing 186 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: to say. Yeah, in medieval England and again medieval Oh, actually, 187 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: well this one, I can give you a specific country, England, 188 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: a random peasant, would you draw lots again? And instead 189 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: of being the King of Saturnalia, you are the Lord 190 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: of Misrule? Okay, which still sounds pretty rule. It is 191 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: the single best title that one could possibly have, I believe, 192 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: is the Lord of Misrule. And they were in charge 193 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: and their job is to make sure the revelry was 194 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: fucking chaos, eat dinner at the altar of the church, 195 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: fucking drink. People would complain because random strangers, I think, 196 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: like random richer folks coming town. But I don't know, 197 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: maybe that's like me trying to be like, oh it 198 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: was like based but who knows it might have sucked 199 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: who fucking it was chaos, random rich strangers coming into 200 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: town might get spanked and robbed, and everyone is and 201 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: people are of course cross dressing all over the fucking place. 202 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: There is a chance that at the end of his reign, 203 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: the Lord of Misrule was sacrificed, just like might have 204 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: happened on Saturnalia. And it's an interesting image, and it's 205 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: presented by like a bona fide folklorist and anthropologist who 206 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 1: should know what he's talking about. A lot of people 207 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: are real skeptical. I'm I'm skeptical. I'm more skeptical about 208 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: medieval England humans prificing the Lord of Misrule at the 209 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: end of their week, but or at the end of 210 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: the twelve days of Christmas, that'd be a funny And 211 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: on the twelfth David of Christmas, I gave you just 212 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: literally you're dead now, just sucking killing you. A lot 213 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: of the like neat stories about weird, wacky ways that 214 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: people killed themselves in each other from like the oldie 215 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: times turn out to be just stories like the thing 216 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: and the like Scandinavian thing, or like the Swedish thing 217 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: about like old people have to throw themselves off of 218 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: cliffs in order to die in order to like not 219 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: take up resources from the community or whatever. I can't 220 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: it's used in that movie Midsummer Spoiler. I guess that's 221 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: not real as far as anyone can tell. That's like 222 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: a that's a story. It's a story. Yeah yeah. Whereas, 223 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: on the other hand, most of the stories that hint 224 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: about sucking and drugs it seem to actually usually be 225 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: true and are not because poor people fucking to drugs. Yeah, 226 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: it's more sustainable than Yeah, you can you can do 227 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: drugs more than during your lifetime die one time typically 228 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: unless you are again Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Yeah, 229 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: or that guy the first zombie, who do you summoned 230 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: back from the dead, Oh, Lazarus, Yeah, that's it. And 231 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: then also one of the reasons I sort of doubt 232 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: this is that for all of the I really don't 233 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,119 Speaker 1: want to be like for good things that Christianity culturally exported, 234 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:33,479 Speaker 1: but um, the overall Christianity cut down on human sacrifice 235 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: a good solid amount whenever it was around, and then 236 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: they found their way to do killing another way. Oh yeah, no, absolutely, yeah, yeah, 237 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: that's God. Maybe that's just all made the Crusaders pent 238 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: up whatever anyway, So the Lord of Misrule ties into 239 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,439 Speaker 1: but is distinct from the Feast of Fools, which started 240 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: probably in Central Europe. And all of these names are 241 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: so good, I know, and they're all fucking cool things. 242 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: It's start in Central Europe. It's uh January one Colens, 243 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: which is still part of Christmas if if you're doing 244 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 1: the twelve Days, and it was a day of the 245 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: Feast of Fools was wildness and folly and role reversal 246 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: and lewdness and like everything is permitted very like actually 247 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: kind of like Mardi Gras is the sort of modern 248 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: thing that people would sort of tiles into and it's 249 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: all happening like in the name of God. But the 250 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: priests in there being like fun, fun, fun fuck. How 251 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: do we stop this fun fun fun fuck? There was 252 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: like in the name of God, and they're like doing 253 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: everything that Christianity normally says not to do. Is there 254 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: having like a transgender orgy? Yeah? Yeah, And it took 255 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: a couple hundred years for the Church to successfully stomp 256 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: out the Feast of Fools. Unfortunate, unfortunate. I know, It's 257 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: like to me, it seems like maybe how like a 258 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: person who lives in England is ostensibly rule by the 259 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: English King, and a Catholic is ostensibly ruled by the 260 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: Catholic Church. But really people are just people and doing 261 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: their own thing, and these authoritarian structures are just trying 262 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: to claim authority that they only somewhat have. And that's 263 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: how I feel about the like folk Catholicism of this time. 264 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: Catholicism is this type of Catholicism is at odds with 265 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: the Church rather than being in like obedience to the Church. 266 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: And this seems to be the Catholicism that was actually 267 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: practiced by a lot of Catholics instead of what people 268 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: claimed they should be practicing. So was sailing. So what 269 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: sailing is when you demand stuff from people? And do 270 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: you know who else is demanding stuff from us? From you? 271 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: The listener, Sophie Lichtman is demanding that in order to 272 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: continue to eat food on Arran. Yeah that, um, we 273 00:15:54,960 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: should shift over to hearing different voices, a diversity of opinions. 274 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: I have these opinions about cool people did cool stuff, 275 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: whereas you might be about to hear an opinion that 276 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: says that you should become a cop. Hopefully those ads 277 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: are gone. Now yeah, I mean we really don't have 278 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: control over most of the ads. Yeah, so we don't 279 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: endorse them. Yeah. It so we can do our shows 280 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: and pay people and eat food and have homes. Yeay, 281 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: here's the ads. We are back. Was sailing traditionally done 282 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: on the twelfth night. Was sailing probably gets its name 283 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: from the Norse. It basically means like hail, as in 284 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: like hail and well met, or like hey, what's up? Yeah, 285 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: it means it means be in good health, and it's 286 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: what predates modern caroline. It basically means go around and 287 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: make the rich people give you nice ship by singing songs. 288 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: It gets referred to as recipient initially gated charity, which 289 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: is my favorite euphemism in the world. That's great because 290 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: I would like to present a spectrum of ways of 291 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: engaging in power. I have top down charity, in which 292 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: the rich give to the poor, usually in ways that 293 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: maintain the power structure and you know, not based make 294 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: them feel good about themselves. Then there's mutual aid, which 295 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: is people giving freely amongst equals, and then there's recipient 296 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: initiated charity aka give me your ship. Unfortunately, I mean, 297 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 1: there's kind of a way of seeing all of this, 298 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: like revelry, this sort of negative interpretation of all of 299 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: this stuff that I really like. I don't subscribe to 300 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: this belief, but it is the danger of all this 301 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: revelry is that it lets out pent up aggression. If 302 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: you get to be in charge, if you're an ancient 303 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: Rome and you're enslaved and you get to be fed 304 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: by your master for a week a year, you're less 305 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: likely to revolt. Yeah, this is the same type of 306 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: thing we see a lot of the time, and like, uh, 307 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: it's the recuperation of like anti capitalist resistance and selling 308 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: it back to you in a way that is palpable. 309 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: But bye. By by doing that exchange, you feel like 310 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: you're living in a world where where there actually is 311 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: actual resistance, but a lot of it is paid for. 312 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: Like it's it's it's the the One of the few 313 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,439 Speaker 1: good jokes from Rick and Morny is the is the 314 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: is the simple ricks wafers and how they start selling 315 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: the simple ricks freedom wafer selects how you can you 316 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: can you can you can buy this wafer and it 317 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: gives you a taste of what it's like to be 318 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: actually truly free and so like it's it's and it's 319 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: and and this this wafer flavor was was designed by 320 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: like studying the brain of someone who just laid like 321 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: a revolt against a factory. Um and it's like getting 322 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: this getting this taste into into into the way for 323 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 1: and this person worked at the wafer factory. So it's 324 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: this company that is like using this revolt to make 325 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 1: more of their products. And you can, you can engage 326 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: with it, and it gives you a taste, but that 327 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: it's actually it's it's it's just gonna prolong the amount 328 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: of time that you're living under this because now you 329 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: have this little bit of the taste. And what I 330 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 1: would argue is that when the government or the forces 331 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,239 Speaker 1: that be or whatever the funk do this kind of 332 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: stuff to us, it's dangerous for them. It's not as 333 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 1: completely under continued their control as they would like to claim, 334 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: you know, um Like sometimes these things, these things that 335 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: to them are like controlled burns, get out of control. 336 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: And I would argue that as they like let the 337 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: steam out of the pent up. I mean, how many 338 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: metaphors can I possibly use here, But you know, as 339 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: they let the steam out or whatever, right let out 340 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: the pent up energy or whatever, so that the whole 341 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: thing doesn't s blowed. It's still sometimes it's like actually 342 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: teaching us. Like sometimes you get that taste that wayfer 343 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,239 Speaker 1: in your mouth and you're like, you know, what if 344 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 1: we had the whole fucking factory, what if we had 345 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: that all the time? Yeah, no, like that, that's the 346 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: same thing. I think I was talking with this with 347 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 1: people when um the TV show and or finished coming out, 348 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: which how did how did Disney allow them to make 349 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 1: this thing that's showcasing how to do all these various 350 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 1: forms of resistance, And there's a part of it that's 351 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: like they're selling you back this version of right of 352 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: uprising for us to consume. And maybe if we just consume, 353 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: that will be happy enough that we're that we're able 354 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,439 Speaker 1: to consume this thing that we'll forget that you can 355 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 1: do this in in the real world. But I don't 356 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 1: I think that is uh with considering, but I don't. 357 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: I don't think it's it has the full picture. Yeah, yeah, 358 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 1: I think what happened there is that you have people 359 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: who actually it less that Disney was like ha ha, 360 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: this is our big evil plan. I mean, like like 361 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: what if there was like a single radio conglomerate that 362 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: controlled like half of podcasts the radio stations, and then 363 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:18,479 Speaker 1: people got paid to talk about rebels on their network, Right, 364 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: I would argue that they would be doing these hypothetical 365 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: people would be doing it to make use of a 366 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: power structure that exists, like rather than like for the 367 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: sake of that power structure. And it's a dangerous and 368 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: complicated game. But the the old cliche is that the 369 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: the last capitalist will sell you the rope with which 370 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: to hang him. Yeah, and that doesn't mean he doesn't 371 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, which is why I like 372 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: that saying. And people will use that saying like to 373 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: mean the opposite and I'm like, no, that's the capitalist 374 00:21:54,520 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: is still diet. Yeah, And anyway, recipients initiated charity. Big 375 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,959 Speaker 1: part of was sailing. It's like the role reversal thing. 376 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: So peasants would go to their feudal lords or just 377 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: like rich people, and they would sing and demand good 378 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: food and booze and sometimes just straight up money. And 379 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: this looked lots of different ways. Sometimes it's like you 380 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: show up and you're like give us your figgie pudding 381 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: or we won't go away and they're like ha ha ha, 382 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: here's your figgie pudding. And then you're like, thank you, sir, 383 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: And everyone feels really good about themselves. And sometimes there's 384 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: all these like people writing complaining about being like the 385 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: rich people are afraid to leave their houses because gangs 386 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: of youth are outside station to rob them. So there's 387 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 1: like a whole spectrum. Yeah, of was sailing. Uh. Sometimes 388 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: people would curse the rich people, but you know, totally 389 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: not pagan, just regular curses, good Christian curses. Yes, yes, 390 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: all of those Christian curses. Yeah. Sometimes they would vandalize 391 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 1: the place. And this is actually the rick the root 392 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: of trick or treating, as far as I can tell, 393 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: trick or treat that's what it was reminding me of. Yeah, 394 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: it's give me some candy or egg your fucking house 395 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: is like the once you're like twelve or thirteen, you know, 396 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: that's the level of trick or treating or whatever. Maybe 397 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: it's just me. Uh. A clergyman from the time said quote, 398 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: men dishonor Christ more in twelve days of Christmas than 399 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: in all the twelve months. Besides, great people would drink 400 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: and gamble and feast and probably they fucked. But you know, 401 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: the history books won't say plus they fucked. Instead they 402 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: say they engaged in licentatious behavior. Cross dressing big part 403 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: of it and a big part of a sailing. So 404 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: every single fucking little bit of tradition has people across dressing. 405 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: It's part of it. There's this book that rules. It's 406 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: called Witchcraft in the Gay Counterculture, and it was basically 407 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: a love letter written to me and you Garrison, okay um. 408 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: It was by Arthur Evans, probably Robert's dad. I'm not 409 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: can neither confirm nor deny mhm um. And it talks 410 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: about how everyone kept dressing up as weird ship quote. 411 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: So common was the practice of animal masquerades in the 412 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: Middle Ages that detailed condemnations were issued against them. Theodore, 413 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: a seventh century archbishop of Canterbury Centerbury maybe I wrote 414 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: that wrong might be. Canterbury wrote, if anyone in the 415 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: colens of January goes about as a stag or a bowl, 416 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: that is, making himself into a wild animal, and dressing 417 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: in the skin of a herd and putting on the 418 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: head of beasts, those who in such wise transforms themselves 419 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: into the appearance of a wild animal penance for three 420 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: years because this is devilish. And the same book Witchcraft 421 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: in the Gay Counterculture says links between witchcraft and transvestism 422 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: appear regularly in early Christian Europe. In the sixth century, 423 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: the Christian writer Cesarius of Aries denounced the pagan practices 424 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: of ritual transvestism and the wearing of animal costumes. Six 425 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 1: and seventh century synods repeat condemned trends. Condemned transvestism during 426 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: the popular New Year's holiday, where men dressed as women 427 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: quote a masquerade probably originating in a fertility right of 428 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: some kind. In ninth century, a Christian guide book prescribed 429 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: penance for men who practice ritual transvestism. A thirteenth century 430 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: inquisitor in southern France denounced female worshippers of the goddess 431 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: Diana along with male transvestites. This is this is all 432 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: super fascinating because I I just I just for the 433 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: last episode of the Tenacious Unicorn ranch series I was 434 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: writing about there's been these attacks on drag shows by 435 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 1: these these Christian far right groups YUM, and particularly this 436 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: past month, there's been multiple attacks on Christmas themed drag shows. 437 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 1: It's just fascinating because like these, these these Christmas themed 438 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: drag shows are more like traditionally Christmas yet all of 439 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: these Christians who are attacking them. But it's also this 440 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: interesting look a bit on, like this exact scenario isn't new, 441 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: this has been going on for thousands of years. It's 442 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: the same thing. They're doing, the same thing. We're both 443 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: following into our traditional roles. Yes, these Christians are attacking 444 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: these other Christians or these these holiday like drag performances 445 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: in the same way that these Christians are attacking a 446 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 1: ritual transmestism. It's the same ship. Yep. And I love 447 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 1: that the Church has multiple times over the years needed 448 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: to say please stop cross dressing and or dressing up 449 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: like cows, and people just kept being like no, no, no, no, 450 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: We're gonna do it. I can't stop me. And I'm 451 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: doing it in the name of God. Um. And there's 452 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: also something in the last the last line from that 453 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: last quote about the inquisitor in France coming after female 454 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: worshippers with the gost Diana along with male trends best dates. 455 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: And there's a bunch of things there. One is that 456 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,919 Speaker 1: like there were a bunch of women worshiping Diana including 457 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: sis women and trans women was more or less what 458 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: that's saying. But also that like the modern Turfs who 459 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: want to like separate system trans women, like the enemies, 460 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:21,199 Speaker 1: have been demanding we burned together for a very long time. Yes, okay, 461 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: more cool about Christmas. The Welsh tradition have you heard 462 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: of mary lud? I don't think so. It's not actually 463 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: lude like lude, it's it's l w y d Okay, Okay. 464 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: So you take a horse skull, right, and you put 465 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: the horse skull on a stick. Uh, you make like 466 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: a hobby horse out of it, you know, like a 467 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: little kid. Yeah, and then you drape a sheet sort 468 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: of over it, like kind of on the neck so 469 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,120 Speaker 1: that you can hide under the sheet. And so it's 470 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 1: just a horsehead on a stick with a person underneath it. 471 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: And that's that's your Christmas, uh, with say alien thing 472 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: that you bring around And so with sailors would take 473 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 1: this horrific, awesome horse skull around them with them as 474 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: they were sucking up the rich and getting drunk. And 475 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: historians have no idea whether this Welsh tradition, the mary 476 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: lewd is the gray mayor I believe is what it 477 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: translates to they have no idea of its pre Christian 478 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: or not. Rather, lots of people have ideas about whether 479 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: it's pretty Christians or not, but no one can prove it. Um. 480 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: The records of it go back to about eighteen hundred, 481 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: but they talk about it being a thing from before them. 482 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: Another thing that predates Mary Lewd is the concept of advertisement. 483 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: So true, you're so true. Yeah, we can all make 484 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: it through it together. We are back. You could also 485 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: with sail and orchard, in case you were ever wondering. 486 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: You're like, but I was sailing orchard? Well, the answer, 487 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: Garrison Davis, is that you could if you would choose 488 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: what type of things would be at the orchard and 489 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: the end of December. So I think this is was 490 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: sailing now taken out of Christmas time. I can't I 491 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: can't tell. It still might have been, because you're not 492 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: like going and getting the apples at this point, you're 493 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: blessing the orchard for better harvest in the here to come. Yeah, okay, yeah, 494 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: and so it actually still could have been midwinter. I 495 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: I really kind of like, I don't know. I spent 496 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: a while trying to figure out exactly when they were 497 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: with sailing orchards. Okay, so yeah you can with sail orchards, 498 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: which even up into the seventeenth century was really fucking 499 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: pagan I mean folklore or superstitious people would march from 500 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: orchard to orchard, led by the wassail king and queen 501 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: to the orchard and drink to the health of the 502 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: trees and scare away evil spirits. In order to bring 503 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: about a good harvest. They would lift the wassail queen 504 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: up into the bows to place booze soaked bread in 505 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: the branches. Yeah, totally Christian. Yeah, this is yes, this 506 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: this doesn't sound like filick paganism at all. No, no, 507 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: just a Christian thing. Other was sailing traditions included drinking 508 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: mould cider and various types of booze from a with 509 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: sail bowl, which is a big communal bowl that everyone 510 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: drank from, and the drink was called with sale because 511 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: they're really original namers and it's been a bunch of 512 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: different drinks at different times. For a while, it was 513 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: mead with crab apples. Later it was cier um, like 514 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: what people drink Christmas now. Other times it was like 515 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: ale with baked apples in it. Basically it's like some 516 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: combination of like apples of some variety and alcohol. I mean, 517 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: stuff like this has has continued on today this yeah, 518 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: this this this style of tradition yeah yeah, And I 519 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: really like it. It is like one of the things 520 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: that I'm not talking about that in the script. But 521 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: I still genuinely like, like the real at my heart, 522 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: the reason that I never actually like didn't like Christmas 523 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: even when I was like a baby anarchist and spent 524 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: all of my time rallying against consumerism and shipped like that. 525 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: And I still believe the same ship I believed but 526 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: noted noted fan of consumerism. Yeah, but like the idea 527 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: of gathering together with your family and the darkest day 528 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: of the year and like at the darkest time, like 529 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: and it's not just that the light is returning, but 530 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: it's at the coldest setting in And how hope returns 531 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: even as things get worse. And I think about this 532 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: a lot with the current rise of fascism. Right, even 533 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: when we turn the tide on fascism, things will continue 534 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: to get worse for a while, but we can't lose hope. 535 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: We know that as the light returns eventually delayed so 536 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: will the warmth. UM. I really care about both Soulstice 537 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: and Christmas, and I like, I really I'm very blessed. 538 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: And then I come from a wonderful family um and 539 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: and enjoy gathering them, and so I feel like I 540 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: need to like shout out that. Like another important part 541 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: about Christmas is something that does get held onto for 542 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: all of it, which um is fucking family togetherness in 543 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: tradition and all that ship. Um. Anyway, that's my my 544 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: little earnest moment for the week. Medieval Christmas. I'm all 545 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: for it. Medieval Christmas is the best of all Christmas 546 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: is a lot of people weren't for it. The real 547 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: war on Christmas is the war to sanitize it. It's 548 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: a war that's been mostly one the middle class in 549 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: the US, and the eight hundreds is a big part 550 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: of the war against Christmas. For some reason. They didn't 551 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 1: like drunken poor people showing up at their house demanding 552 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: ship and vantalizing their houses. Overall, the US started by 553 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: fucking Puritans kind of missed out on spicy Christmas. Yeah, 554 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: which is a shame. The traditional Christmas, as we've discussed, 555 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: he gave you crime cross dress be a furry worship 556 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: the old gods while pretending like you obey the Church 557 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: and the Christian God of your Roman conquerors. And now 558 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: I want to talk about the first real I mean, 559 00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: I've been talking with the War on Christmas being the 560 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: seventeen hundred year longing. I want to talk about the 561 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: first time that Christians almost got rid of Christmas, the 562 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: War on Christmas of the sixteen forties. In the sixteen 563 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: forties England, they had this whole funk off Civil War thing. 564 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: It should have been cool, but it actually sucked. It 565 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: should have been cool because it was a commonwealth resting 566 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: power away from a monarch, but it was also they 567 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: were Puritans, and they deposed a slightly more religiously tolerant 568 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: king and then they turned around in genocide of the 569 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: Ship out of Ireland. I have some bias against Cromwell 570 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: that will work its way through anything I talk about history. 571 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: When the Puritans took over England in the sixteen forties, 572 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: they didn't like fun. That was kind of their whole thing, 573 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: not not fun enjoyers, and so Christmas became a culture 574 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: war issue. During the lead up to the Civil War, 575 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: the middle class parliamentarians opened their shops on Christmas to 576 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: say fuck you to the holiday. Christmas was clearly a 577 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: holdover from Catholicism and therefore holdover from pagan is um, 578 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: and the Puritans don't like paganism or Catholicism plus revelry 579 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 1: and gender bending. No fucking good? Am I right? So true? Yeah? 580 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: For the most part, commoners wanted nothing to do with 581 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: either side of this war. They were like the king 582 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 1: of the rich people. I'm good. Oh, I forget the 583 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: name of it. In my Civil English Civil War episode, 584 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: I think I talked about them. There was this whole 585 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: group that was basically the Band of Brothers from Game 586 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: of Thrones. There's a whole group of people who are like, 587 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: we're just going to defend our fucking towns from both 588 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 1: armies because both armies are fox. Yeah. The commoners, they 589 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: didn't want anything to do with the pissing match between 590 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: the Royalists and the parliamentarians, and they didn't want to 591 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: lose Christmas. So in sixteen forty three, a bunch of 592 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,839 Speaker 1: apprentices rioted and smashed up the shops that were open 593 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 1: on Christmas because they're trying to deny society. It's weeks 594 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: of feasting and merrymaking up based you have to fight 595 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: for your right to party, which is the only Beastie 596 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 1: Boys reference. I will ever make the entire a run 597 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: of this podcast. Yeah, I do love a riot to 598 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: ensure the continuation of Christmas. Yeah. So the Puritans came 599 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 1: out ahead in the Civil War. Then they had King 600 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: Charles the first in jail in SI. They banned Christmas 601 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: in England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. No mince pies. Like literally, 602 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: they banned not just Christmas, but they banned mince pies, 603 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:32,320 Speaker 1: plum putting, no hanging holly, no excessive drinking or parties. 604 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: And you're required to keep your shops open. No fucking 605 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: free commerce here. You have to keep your shops open 606 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,959 Speaker 1: on Christmas. This didn't go well. No, this doesn't sound 607 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: like people would respond to this very nicely. No. There 608 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: were demonstrations and riots all over England and probably Scotland, 609 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,399 Speaker 1: Wales and Ireland. While Wales Ireland was busy some other ship. 610 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: Around this point, in London, arms soldiers had to break 611 00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: up an unruly crowd to stop the crowd from hang 612 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: in holly. In Norwich, forty people were killed when the 613 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: city's ammunition stockpile caught fire in the rioting. Oh my god, 614 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: in Ipswitch, which is totally the name of the town 615 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: and not whatever. Supposedly a protester named Christmas was killed, 616 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,439 Speaker 1: which then got turned into propaganda, which the history book 617 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,879 Speaker 1: I read was like, and then this happened. I don't 618 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: I don't believe it. I straight up don't believe it. 619 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 1: I know that propaganda was made about it, but I 620 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 1: don't know there are actually some protester named Christmas was murdered. 621 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: I am at the very least skeptical. Yeah, people in Canterbury, 622 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: which is actually a city in England, and not just 623 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: the name of a book I was supposed to read 624 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: in high school. Uh, they rioted. These are called the 625 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: plum Pudding riots. The mayor went through the market and 626 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: forced everyone to open their stalls for fear, or like 627 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:51,880 Speaker 1: he would throw you in the stocks if you wouldn't 628 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: open your stalls at the market. So an angry mob 629 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: followed behind, trashing every shop that opened. So these shopkeepers, 630 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,240 Speaker 1: they're just fucked. If they opened their shop, it'll get trashed. 631 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,840 Speaker 1: If they don't, they get thrown the stocks. The crowd 632 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 1: caught up with the mare and threw him down into 633 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: the mud, but he got up and he managed to 634 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: order the crowd to back off, and then, in a 635 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: move that sounds like someone making fun of England, the 636 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 1: crowd produced some footballs and started this massive game of 637 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: football across the whole city with no rules that dragged 638 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,720 Speaker 1: everyone into the game or to hide in their houses, 639 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: which was basically a Christmas tradition, was Calvin ball. Puritans 640 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 1: who tried to stop them were pelted with mud, and 641 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 1: the pro Christmas rioters took their city back from authorities 642 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,880 Speaker 1: for the day. Later, some instigators were rounded up, but 643 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: the grand jury refused to indict them, so the Christmas 644 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:49,240 Speaker 1: Rioters got off scot free again, all for traditional Christmas 645 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: sees your city party for twelve days, cross dress, drink 646 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 1: other people's wine, play sports that don't have rules. The 647 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: main fallout for the canceling of Christmas was pretty much 648 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: the end of the religious component of Christmas. People were like, 649 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: all right, we just won't go to church on Christmas. 650 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 1: We'll do all of the other stuff, but we won't 651 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: go to church. They also canceled Easter, not the protesters, 652 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 1: but the Puritans. I don't really care m as much 653 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 1: about Easter. Cancel culture strikes again. I know. Eventually you've 654 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: got the Reformation and people got a king again, which 655 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 1: was once again a lateral move. Should have been a 656 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,439 Speaker 1: make things worse, but fucking lateral move. And they also 657 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,879 Speaker 1: got Christmas back. Um, it wasn't as cool as anymore though. 658 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,800 Speaker 1: The Lord of misrule was gone and forgotten. Lord of 659 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: misrule was a died in the Puritan War on Christmas. 660 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: How that what a what a loss? I know, it's 661 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: funny to me because it's the exact same sort of 662 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: people in the seventeenth century England banning Christmas that are 663 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: so adamantly defending it today, right, but there, but the 664 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: thing that they're not defending Christmas, they're just Christo fascists 665 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,839 Speaker 1: trying to yeah, like defend Christian hegemony. Yeah, they're they're 666 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,399 Speaker 1: trying to set up a Christian Domini state. Like that's 667 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: that's what they're actually doing. Yeah, totally. Anyway, later in 668 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: sixteen fifty nine, the Puritans in Massachusetts Bay they banned 669 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,839 Speaker 1: Christmas too. Quote, whoever shall be found observing any such 670 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,320 Speaker 1: day as Christmas or the like, either by forbearing of labor, feasting, 671 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 1: or any other way, had to pay a five shilling fine, 672 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: which was about three days wages for the average skilled laborer, 673 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,840 Speaker 1: so it's like, oh, like three hundred bucks today. I 674 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:32,240 Speaker 1: don't know what skilled fred dollars. Christmas was functionally banned 675 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: in Massachusetts until the eighteen hundreds. When I when I 676 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: was a kid learning US history, I always heard about 677 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: the Puritans as this like poor oppressed minority that fled 678 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,279 Speaker 1: England presumably fearing for their lives or some ship. Uh. 679 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: They never taught us how Puritans in England soon took 680 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,719 Speaker 1: control of England, or the fact that one of their 681 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 1: sticking points had been the reason they felt oppressed is 682 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: that they didn't tolerate other religions, and literally one of 683 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 1: their problems with the king, as he was fairly religiously tolerant. 684 00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,840 Speaker 1: He was even married to a Catholic. The religious freedom 685 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: that the Puritans were fighting for was the religious freedom 686 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 1: to not allow religious freedom, which I don't know it 687 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: might sound familiar to the modern Yeah, listen, alright, one 688 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: more group that tried to get rid of Christmas. Stalin 689 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: Really I didn't know this. In the USSR banned Christmas. 690 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,360 Speaker 1: They banned it in the same way that the Catholics 691 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 1: banded senturnalien Yule and tried to ban Christmas, which is 692 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: that they tried to ban it and that didn't work 693 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 1: because people just kept celebrating Christmas. So then they co 694 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 1: opted it. The band last from when they realized what 695 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 1: everyone has always realized. People need a fucking holiday in 696 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 1: the middle of the goddamn darkest time of the fucking year, 697 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 1: especially in Russia. I know, those those four Russians. So 698 00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:01,399 Speaker 1: the Christmas trees got rebranded New Year's for trees, gift 699 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 1: giving was moved to New Year's too, and then that 700 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 1: totally materialist, absolutely rational figure grandfather Frost, was the one 701 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:13,279 Speaker 1: to bring them. Okay, people feasted, people dressed up in costumes, 702 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 1: totally secular fun times for all the non religious people 703 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: in the non religious country. It was probably a little 704 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 1: bit bland, a little bit sanitized, like the U S 705 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: version of the holiday. And I I totally get why 706 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: revolutionaries came for institutions of power, which include the church. Yeah, 707 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,360 Speaker 1: and I get why people wanted to destroy the vestiges 708 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:39,759 Speaker 1: of religion, but people want midwinter celebrations and frankly it's 709 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: gonna feel religious whatever fucking religion. People don't care. It 710 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 1: could be soul invictus. It could be the Horned God. 711 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 1: It could be Odin, it could be yahweh, it could 712 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,720 Speaker 1: be Marks who fucking ever give us our figgy putting 713 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 1: or break your fucking windows, and that, Garrison Davis, is 714 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,400 Speaker 1: the true meaning of Christmas. Give us our figgy pudding 715 00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,920 Speaker 1: or we'll break your fucking windows. I've never had figgy pudding, 716 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: but I'll take your word for it. I don't know 717 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: what figgy pudding is. I assume it's putting made out 718 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 1: of figs. That actually sounds good, now that you mentioned it, 719 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 1: that probably that that doesn't make sense. I looked up 720 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 1: a thousand things for this episode because I didn't grow 721 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,840 Speaker 1: up in a very religious household, and um, I didn't 722 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 1: look up figgy pudding. I looked up what was in 723 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,800 Speaker 1: with sale, but I didn't look up figgy pudding. Figgy 724 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 1: pudding does indeed have figs? All right, well, that makes sense. 725 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:34,480 Speaker 1: Is it a pudding because there's also blood. It's it's 726 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 1: a putting in the sense of like a British pudding, 727 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,399 Speaker 1: so like it's like a dessert. It's like a it's 728 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:46,120 Speaker 1: like a more congealed, bready type thing. All right, Yeah, 729 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,360 Speaker 1: you know I would say it probably tastes good, but 730 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,760 Speaker 1: I've had some British food. Yeah, I'm gonna it doesn't 731 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 1: look great. Okay, everyone Google it looks like meat loaf. 732 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,600 Speaker 1: That is nicer than what I what it looked like. 733 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,440 Speaker 1: It's kind of like it was. It's kind of fruitcake yea, exactly. 734 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 1: Essentially it is a fruit cake but with like there's 735 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 1: figs and like there's times people are saying they put 736 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:23,080 Speaker 1: like brandy in it, and sometimes there's other dried fruits 737 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: and stuff. But you know, biggy pudding that's cool. And 738 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,920 Speaker 1: on that note, that is the Christmas cool people who 739 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:38,759 Speaker 1: did cool stuff in which we talked about Christmas, which 740 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: is the cool The cool people are the people who 741 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,319 Speaker 1: party no matter what whatever they get told to do 742 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,719 Speaker 1: or not do. Yeah, the people who are going to 743 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:51,279 Speaker 1: be throwing hardened figgy puddings through windows if they if 744 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,759 Speaker 1: they don't get allowed to take their tree up three 745 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 1: flights of stairs and shove it in their apartment because 746 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:03,320 Speaker 1: if it's cold, they're cold, bring the tree spirits inside, 747 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:08,200 Speaker 1: which is like it's like a very like a Miyazaki type. 748 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,440 Speaker 1: And if you want to save money on candles, you 749 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:19,040 Speaker 1: can also just sacrifice people. Uh, and leave the bodies 750 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,680 Speaker 1: in the window. I'm not sure if that's going to 751 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 1: catch on anymore. I don't know. We're past that. That's 752 00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:32,600 Speaker 1: just sailed. We're having we're having to fight for for 753 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,840 Speaker 1: like drag Queen Christmas. I'm not sure if we're ready 754 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,959 Speaker 1: to fight for the dead bodies in the window. Okay, 755 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 1: we're ready to fight for a thousand year old Christmas, 756 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,760 Speaker 1: but not ready. We're going to defend our traditional values, 757 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,840 Speaker 1: all right, all right, go out there, everyone and defend 758 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,960 Speaker 1: your traditional values of people's. This part is not sarcastic. 759 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,879 Speaker 1: People should be allowed to fucking drag shows. Jesus fucking Christ. 760 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,960 Speaker 1: What the fund is wrong with people? Yeah, that's what 761 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 1: I got. End of your plugs, anyone, or suck at all, 762 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:04,160 Speaker 1: buck at all, Lord of misrule, declare yourself the lord 763 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:09,760 Speaker 1: of misrule, but survived of the week. That is your duty, 764 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 1: each and every one of you. Hi, everyone, See you 765 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:20,120 Speaker 1: next year. Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a 766 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,319 Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool 767 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,480 Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com, 768 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,719 Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app, 769 00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,600 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts,