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Speaker 1: Yeah. My name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production

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Speaker 1: of the bear Grease podcast called the bear Grease Render

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Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and looked behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f

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Speaker 1: HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear

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Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Guys,

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Speaker 1: We've got an exclusive bear Grease discount code for f

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Speaker 1: h F Gear that's fish Hunt Fight Gear. I've been

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Speaker 1: using their products for the last year and I love

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Speaker 1: carrying my gear in a chest rig or my binos

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Speaker 1: and their bin no harness. It's easier and more accessible

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Speaker 1: than a backpack and it doesn't get in the way

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Speaker 1: when I'm riding my mule. For a limited time, you

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Speaker 1: can head over to f h F gear dot com

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Speaker 1: forward slash bear Grease and listeners to this year podcast

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Speaker 1: get a discount on purchases for your f h F

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Speaker 1: Gear system and you can see how I build my

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Speaker 1: gear system. So go to f h F gear dot

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Speaker 1: com forward slash bear Grease for a special code. If

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Speaker 1: you're buying stuff from f h F Gear, check it

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Speaker 1: out fish Hunt Fight f h F Gear. I don't

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Speaker 1: think that made it to the actual podcast. It didn't

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Speaker 1: actually make sense. You just gotta threw it in there.

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Speaker 1: And hear me say code switching in the gre that

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Speaker 1: I had correctly labeled what we were talking about. Robert

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Speaker 1: more going so nice. Welcome to the Bear Grease Render.

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Speaker 1: My O, ma, do we have an eclectic bunch of people?

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Speaker 1: We do? We do? Yeah? Man, you got, you got,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna. I'm gonna. We may spend like the whole

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Speaker 1: render just introducing people. That's great, but all all the

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Speaker 1: regulars bailed at the same time. Of course, I guess

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Speaker 1: I might not a regular. No you're I'm just your

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Speaker 1: just I can't stand by here, no no, no, no

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Speaker 1: no so uh so. Gary Nucam is preparing for the

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Speaker 1: Newcomb Family Bear Camp. He's been scouting. Man, It's it's

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Speaker 1: pretty awesome having a dad like I've got. I sent

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Speaker 1: him essentially some white points, like I told him some

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Speaker 1: places and I was like, go see if there's any

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Speaker 1: bear sign there, and so he went and did it,

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Speaker 1: reported back no bear sign. Saved me a little bit

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Speaker 1: of time. So we're preparing for the newcom Family Bear Camp. Okay,

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Speaker 1: like big deal, Like within hours from right now at

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Speaker 1: the time of this recording, me and Isaac will be

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Speaker 1: down there and many others. But I'm gonna get to that.

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Speaker 1: So that's why Gary knew come in here. Josh spill Waker,

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Speaker 1: he is just off somewhere, just unaccounted for. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm not even sure his wife knows where he's at. No,

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Speaker 1: he's working over the land, confused. And then Dan Roupe Man.

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Speaker 1: Dan had something to come up that he just couldn't

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Speaker 1: get out of. I was, I was wrecked when I

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Speaker 1: heard Dan couldn't be here. Truly was Brent is meeting

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Speaker 1: this at the at Bear Camp tomorrow and could not

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Speaker 1: He just couldn't come. So anyway, we got a whole

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Speaker 1: cast of characters to my left, Spence Terrell, Spencer Man,

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Speaker 1: it's awesome to have you on the render, It's great

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Speaker 1: to be here. Home run, home run performance on the

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Speaker 1: Bear Grease podcast. Not a hunter but a fan of

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Speaker 1: Soil so yeah one time and a punk rocker. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you packed a lot in there in five minutes. I've

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Speaker 1: got a can I share a funny story about Spence

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Speaker 1: and Soil Uh. We threw a little shin dig down

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Speaker 1: here one time. We were actually celebrating my brother's graduation,

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Speaker 1: and we cooked a pig in the ground. And somehow

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Speaker 1: in the process, y'all, y'all kind of started nerding out

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Speaker 1: on your crops soil miromial science knowledge. And you guys

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Speaker 1: were working with a third person who had a degree

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Speaker 1: in classical letters whatever that is. And do you remember this,

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Speaker 1: And and you guys were and you said, man, I've

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Speaker 1: always wanted my soil science to come in. Hey, Indian,

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Speaker 1: here it is. And you guys just started, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of growing out. Yeah, exactly over over both. What

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Speaker 1: we had done is we dug a pit to cook

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Speaker 1: a pig in the girl profile. Yeah, a small soil profile.

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Speaker 1: Y'all know. I was on the University of Arkansas soil

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Speaker 1: judging team. We came in last place. All the Mississippi

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Speaker 1: schools beat us here, But I am a collegic athlete.

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Speaker 1: I consider well. And I mean, I hate to bring

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Speaker 1: it up this quick, but your wife is the Cross

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Speaker 1: County Arkansas Rice Queen former former. I mean this is

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Speaker 1: a big once a Rice Queen's former on that one,

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Speaker 1: the Cumberland Gap. I was gonna so we tried to

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Speaker 1: get Aryl's wife on here, and she okay, so I

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Speaker 1: cryptically a couple of podcasts go talked about someone that

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Speaker 1: I did an interview with a question them about the

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Speaker 1: Cumberland up, and they just nailed it. Just bam, bam bam.

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Speaker 1: Usually I'm trying to interview people that I know won't know. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna tell you now that's not true. I'm

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Speaker 1: just trying to take a sampling of humanity, okay, just

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Speaker 1: random sampling of humanity. So I interviewed Carly and she

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Speaker 1: knocks it out of the park. I mean it was awesome. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she just told you, told me about it, She told

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Speaker 1: me about it. Yeah, and then it didn't. All we

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Speaker 1: can do is talk about it and revel in the glory.

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Speaker 1: But for Spence, great to have you here, man, fantastic

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Speaker 1: Colby Moore head Ye, Bear Hunting Magazines very own Colby

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Speaker 1: Moore head Man. I mean, I can't talk to you

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Speaker 1: without saying this. Last time I saw you, you were

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Speaker 1: on an altar getting married. True. I mean, I'm not

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Speaker 1: trying to be dramatic here, just telling the truth. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you were crowding to stay You're real close two weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: twelve days ago, yeah, yeah, eleven. So congratulations man, newly

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Speaker 1: married man here similating to new life. Yeah, good to

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Speaker 1: have you, good to have you. Thank you to your left.

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Speaker 1: Isaac Neil Isaac, first time, first time Bear Grease podcaster.

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Speaker 1: Welcome man, it's me in the flesh. Yeah, I uh,

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Speaker 1: first time on really excited, usually listening and text you

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Speaker 1: things unsolicited. Yes, I think last time was the guy

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Speaker 1: who commented about the cover photo. I took that personally. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I took that personally. I took that personally. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The image that is the bear Grease image. That's me

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Speaker 1: and Izzy, my mule. Isaac took that picture. Isaac was

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Speaker 1: a photographer, and the guy said, don't let the cover

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Speaker 1: photo fool you. I stood up. I said, you know,

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Speaker 1: how dare he? I didn't stand up, but I was offended.

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Speaker 1: That was a that's a great picture. Like I saw

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Speaker 1: that picture. That's a great picture. It's mostly clay. I

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Speaker 1: mean to photo half an animal though, that's like a

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Speaker 1: wild card. Well now, so Isaac is a pro photographer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah still still photographer. Yeah yeah. Checked him out on Instagram.

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Speaker 1: I was like, Neil, I'm an aspiring livestock photographer. I

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Speaker 1: just can't get anybody to pay me. For it, so

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Speaker 1: I gotta take Maybe you can take pictures of your chicken.

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Speaker 1: That's where a pretty good photographer on your hands there. Yeah. Yeah, no, Isaac,

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Speaker 1: you just got back from where where were you? We

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Speaker 1: did a road trip. Uh, North Dakota, Montana, and Wyoming

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Speaker 1: grass hunting, grass hunting, yep, yep. So we targeted sharp

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Speaker 1: tales and Hungarian partridge in North Dakota. Uh, sage and

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Speaker 1: sharp tales and Hungarian partridge in Montana, and then blues

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Speaker 1: and sage in Wyoming. Man, you're talking about stuff I

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Speaker 1: just don't have any reference for. To be totally honest

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Speaker 1: with you, I thought there were like two Upland birds

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Speaker 1: into like three or four years ago. And my grandpa's

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Speaker 1: one of the most avid Upland bird hunters I've ever known.

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Speaker 1: But I just thought there were quail and pheasants. Come

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Speaker 1: to find out, pheasants aren't even American. And anyway, just

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Speaker 1: diving into this whole world, it's been incredible. But I

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Speaker 1: thought their tail feathers kind of had like the American

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Speaker 1: flag strips. Yeah. Is there anything more American than stealing

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Speaker 1: someone else's burden making it ours? That's very good, that's

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Speaker 1: maybe unfair co opting. Uh, stealing is harsh anyway, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I got the call. You said, I need somebody for

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Speaker 1: the render, so I flew in. I ditched my guys

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Speaker 1: on the Upland road trip. Yes, Hungarian partridge. Are those

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Speaker 1: natives like to call things that are American American? Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, listen, listen the naming institutions of animals, topographic

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Speaker 1: features in this nation are could come from anywhere. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, for instance, our very unbeloved Cumberland Gap. Like

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Speaker 1: we spent a whole podcast talking about Cumberland Gap was

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Speaker 1: named after the Duke of Cumberland. Who was I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know on that podcast, I called him a what

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Speaker 1: did I call him? No, well, I mean he's a

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Speaker 1: Duke of Cumberland. I called him a derogatory name, like

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Speaker 1: a chump. I believe I called him a chump. And

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Speaker 1: I really evaluated that because I was like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know this guy, but I did some research and he

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Speaker 1: was truly a chump. He was a real chump. Wait,

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Speaker 1: be could you becauld you what are the criteria? What's

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Speaker 1: the criteria for chumping? Well we better not get into that.

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Speaker 1: But he was a real chump. Okay, and a whole

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Speaker 1: massive mountain range is named after him. So I could

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Speaker 1: see somebody coming from Hungary area and being like, I'm

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Speaker 1: naming this bird after me and dad back home, you know.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, it's a cool bird. It's like bigger than

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Speaker 1: a quail, but smaller than a grouse. So now we're

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Speaker 1: using dogs. Yep. Yeah, we had um French Brittany's uh

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Speaker 1: German short haired pointers, drafts, uh vishlas, a couple of labs.

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Speaker 1: You know what this? I think this upland bird stuff

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Speaker 1: is just straight up off the chain. You know, used

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Speaker 1: to feature the south pointers and setters. Yep, okay, And

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Speaker 1: the only thing you talked about was the difference in

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Speaker 1: the colors and your pointerers and setters, whether you have

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Speaker 1: a liver poer or you know, uh black pointer whatever.

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Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, this is getting this is this is

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Speaker 1: almost like uh like specialty coffee, you know, like you're

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Speaker 1: talking about all these dogs and stuff. Now do you

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Speaker 1: ever hear anybody referred to a bird dog as flashy?

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Speaker 1: Is there any comes over that's if you have a

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Speaker 1: liver spotted pointer, is that a flashy pointer? That's a

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Speaker 1: good question. I think flashy is a really good adjective

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Speaker 1: for pretty much anything. Yeah. Yeah, so that's a good question,

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Speaker 1: will start. So yeah, hunting behind dogs it's um, it's

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Speaker 1: something that is truly beautiful. Like those guys, you know,

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Speaker 1: I get done and I want to get in the

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Speaker 1: tent or whatever. Those guys are up for another hour

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Speaker 1: taking care of their dogs at the end of the night.

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Speaker 1: Whatever can get up first, take care of the dogs. Remarkable. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: still an introductions, I just want to say the Hungarian

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Speaker 1: partridge was introduced for me. Okay, okay, good, nice, nice

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Speaker 1: fact check okay too. To Isaac's left, Misty Nekam, Welcome Misty.

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Speaker 1: Good to be here always. Yeah, man, your night has

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Speaker 1: been showing up a lot on the interviews. Stop that, man,

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Speaker 1: great to have you, fantastic have you. Um, I couldn't

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Speaker 1: do it with that too. Misty's left back from the

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Speaker 1: sky the American sky forest eater above. Generally, Yes, it's

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Speaker 1: good to have you, Forest. It's good to be on here.

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Speaker 1: Have you own since we last saw you? Not for

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Speaker 1: the Navy commercially, yes, right, yeah, yeah. I flew out

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Speaker 1: to Virginia for a buddy's wedding. Okay, that doesn't count

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Speaker 1: that what I was talking about, of course, but no Navy.

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Speaker 1: So just if somebody didn't hear you, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know a couple of renters ago you were on.

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Speaker 1: So you're a you're a Navy pilot. Now, okay. I

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Speaker 1: I'm a grown man, and I've known Forest a pretty

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Speaker 1: long time. It took me about four or five years.

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Speaker 1: Uh No, you haven't been the Navy that long. It

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Speaker 1: took me how long you've been the Navy. I've been

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Speaker 1: in three years. It took me three years to realize

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Speaker 1: that he doesn't operate a boat, but he flies a

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Speaker 1: plane for the Navy. Come along, Which I mean, if

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Speaker 1: we're trying to throw our enemies off, if this is

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Speaker 1: like deep military strategy to be like the Navy's coming,

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Speaker 1: We're that is brilliant. Now, when you get on a

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Speaker 1: commercial jet, are you sizing up the pilot? I would

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Speaker 1: be lying if I said I don't turn my head

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Like right as we're about to land,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, we're gonna have a nice little

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Speaker 1: flare here. You're gonna we're gonna slam it down. You

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Speaker 1: come in through that front doorway and the stewardess is

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Speaker 1: standing there or that's probably not the term anymore, is it. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: you look in the cabin like, I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 1: I'll take the next one. What are you? What are

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Speaker 1: you looking for in a pilot that you're comfortable with

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Speaker 1: that I'm comfortable with rod shoulders? I mean just in general,

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Speaker 1: when uh, those guys are thoroughly vetted, you know they

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Speaker 1: they've got plenty of experience to make it to a

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Speaker 1: major airline. But I mean, I just want a guy

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Speaker 1: who's a like, honey, you know what, you want a

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Speaker 1: guy that I can stroll up to the cabin and

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Speaker 1: be like, let me in, man, what would take the okay,

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Speaker 1: you be in a pilot? Like if you just made

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Speaker 1: eye contact with a with another human that you were

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Speaker 1: about to entrust your life with thirty thousand feet above

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Speaker 1: the air, Like, what kind of vibes would you want

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Speaker 1: to be getting from? Would you on him in sunglasses?

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Speaker 1: Would you want him to look away once you stared

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Speaker 1: at him? Would you want him to give you kind

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Speaker 1: of like a you know, kind of like an open

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Speaker 1: eye like greeting. I think sunglasses is a prerequisite. It's

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Speaker 1: like you just gotta have it. You got behind so

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Speaker 1: much though, But you're gonna that movie about the I

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Speaker 1: don't have. I don't watch movies. This is not a joke. Literally,

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Speaker 1: like we are issued sunglasses. Like when in Florida when

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Speaker 1: we start our flight training, you go and you get

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Speaker 1: your cool gear and like your flight suits everything. You're like, wow,

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Speaker 1: I'm the best part in the world, even though I've

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Speaker 1: never flown military aircraft, but like I'm gonna be you know,

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Speaker 1: they literally give you, like these sunglasses. They're nice sunglass there, Randolph.

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Speaker 1: I think it's the manufacturer. So it's like that's a

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Speaker 1: prerexis like you're gonna you're gonna have those. You're gonna

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Speaker 1: you're gonna. Well, I think it's kind of it's functional, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's not so that you can look like

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Speaker 1: Tom Cruise. It's because I mean sometimes the sun's in

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Speaker 1: your eyes, right, especially I would think it's, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: gotta fly West. But yeah, other than that, with sunglasses off,

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Speaker 1: just someone who's who's cool, laid back, you know, with

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Speaker 1: someone that when things go wrong. Is it true that

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Speaker 1: I take a lot of comfort in this um. Is

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Speaker 1: it true that the commercial airlines are so autopilot ish

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Speaker 1: that there's really a whole not a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: human moving parts inside of flying one. Let me preface

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Speaker 1: this by saying I don't know firsthand, but I have

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Speaker 1: talked to a couple of pilots in my squadron that

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Speaker 1: basically just got their a TP, which their Airline Transport

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Speaker 1: pilot license, so they're like kind of looking to transition

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Speaker 1: into that realm. And even the aircraft that they're flying now,

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Speaker 1: like some of the air busses and stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: almost have an override such that the plane is built

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Speaker 1: for autopilot. Like if you take the yoke and you

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Speaker 1: turn it hard left, the plane is gonna stop you

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Speaker 1: with like thirty or forty five degrees based on whatever

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Speaker 1: speed you're going, so you not even the plane has

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Speaker 1: almost more control in that instance than you. Um So yeah,

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Speaker 1: the planes, again, this is my kind of uninformed opinion.

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Speaker 1: It is my understanding that, yeah, that they're basically built

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Speaker 1: for autopilot. Let's see, unless there's a problem. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think that that's where you really want. There's probably

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Speaker 1: a lot. It's kind of like me, I'm teaching some

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Speaker 1: of our or at least driving with our kids while

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Speaker 1: they drive right now, and I've got a car that

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Speaker 1: beeps when you yeah, and it does all sorts of

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Speaker 1: fancy things. And I'm trying to get my kids not

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Speaker 1: to use that because I want them to develop the

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Speaker 1: skills of a driver, because if there's a problem, I

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Speaker 1: want them to know how to hit the brakes or

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Speaker 1: to anticipate it before lane assists. And I think that

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Speaker 1: that I wouldn't. I mean, I hear what you're saying. Well,

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Speaker 1: I take comfort in this because, um, to this day,

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Speaker 1: every time I'm in an airplane that uh is this?

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Speaker 1: Does everybody do this? Like when you're in an airplan

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Speaker 1: lane and it lands, you're just like clenching the rails,

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Speaker 1: the handrails on your seat. I mean not worried about it,

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Speaker 1: not really anymore. I mean, if it's been a long

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Speaker 1: make sure I'm sitting straight up so I don't hit

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Speaker 1: my tailbone or something hard. But do you know I've

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Speaker 1: taken off in more airplanes than I've landed in. And you, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you've jumped out of airplane. Yeah. He likes the wind

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Speaker 1: in his hair. It's more of a yeah. So Spence

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Speaker 1: was in the U. S. Military for many years. How

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Speaker 1: many jumps did you make? Man? I did the five

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Speaker 1: to get airborne qualified. Yeah, my last one. My shoot

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Speaker 1: didn't open up all the way? How did that burned in? Well?

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Speaker 1: I came out and in shorter. I mean you tell me,

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Speaker 1: I mean it was crazy. Tell me how you don't

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Speaker 1: die when your shot doesn't work. Well, it's a whole story.

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Speaker 1: But we uh, I jumped out and in the airborne

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Speaker 1: like for the army, which it was really hard to

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Speaker 1: bite my tongue when you're talking about the getting issued sunglasses,

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Speaker 1: because I'm like that he's just issued us some body armor.

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Speaker 1: Ye good, go man. Yeah, so they're like, here's a

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Speaker 1: poncho that weeks um. But yeah, so when you when

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Speaker 1: you jump out, you you kind of just there's a

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Speaker 1: way to exit the plane so you don't hit the

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Speaker 1: side with all your gear and stuff, and you you

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Speaker 1: tumble and you're on a line. It's called a static line.

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Speaker 1: And as you go out, you're flipping around and you

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Speaker 1: reach it into that line and that yankster shoot open.

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Speaker 1: So you're in like the prop wash, the gravity pulling

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Speaker 1: you out of the plane. The line catches. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: less gravity as it is stepping out and the planes

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Speaker 1: going however fast it's going. And then there's a big turbines,

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Speaker 1: you know, the propellers and you just go and uh

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Speaker 1: so anyways, that that that did it. But I had

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Speaker 1: a bad exit because I was pushed out, um not

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Speaker 1: because I wasn't ready to go as the first guy,

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Speaker 1: and the jump master was kind of trying to be

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Speaker 1: funny and I was waiting. There's a little green light

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Speaker 1: and when the green light gut goes on, you're supposed

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Speaker 1: to hear go and then you jump and it went

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Speaker 1: green and I looked at him and he didn't say anything,

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Speaker 1: and that he pushed me out, which is like terrible.

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Speaker 1: So I hit the side of the plane and then yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I got when my shoe came open, it's oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was like all twisted up. His blood Part two.

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Speaker 1: Clay has seen every Rambo movie was the last movie

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Speaker 1: I watched around yanked open and my shoot was all

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Speaker 1: kind of twisted up. You know, if you've ever played

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Speaker 1: with like a toy parachuet, that's all twisted up. So

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Speaker 1: I was going down and it would kind of inflate,

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Speaker 1: and then I had another guy that was wrapped in

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Speaker 1: my lines because he get jumped out. And then when

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Speaker 1: it and finally I got it up and You're only

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Speaker 1: about eight hundred foot above the ground when he jumped,

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Speaker 1: and so I was like, I got it up, and

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Speaker 1: there's a reserve. Yeah, only eight and there's a reserve

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Speaker 1: you pool, but if you're pulled the reserve, it's like

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Speaker 1: a guaranteed broken leg, like yeah, I mean, it's like

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Speaker 1: it's just gonna keep you from yeah, because you come

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Speaker 1: down like flat on your back because it's on your

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Speaker 1: your belly. And uh So, anyways, I finally got it

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Speaker 1: up about I don't know, I was about halfway down.

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Speaker 1: I got it to deploy a little. You got untangled,

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Speaker 1: came off the side of the plane and you're just

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Speaker 1: like free falling. You got it up in the air,

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Speaker 1: but tangle up, and so I was able to get it,

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Speaker 1: I don't It all happened very quickly, as you can imagine.

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Speaker 1: And then another guy kept getting tangled up and he

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Speaker 1: would run on top of my my shoot, like he

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Speaker 1: was coming down faster, and so like he would go

359
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Speaker 1: pump pump, pump pump, and it would collapse my shoot.

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Speaker 1: And and so we're at this point, we're about two

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Speaker 1: d foot above the ground and and it's all trees

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Speaker 1: and running out. Yeah. So then I just essentially just

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Speaker 1: hit the ground. I hit the trees, hit the ground,

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Speaker 1: So you didn't pull your emergency shot. So the shoot

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Speaker 1: must have been opened enough that it slowed me down. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I got it. I got to flare right for

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Speaker 1: I hit. But I still it's about the equivalent of

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Speaker 1: falling off like a three story building. And I went

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Speaker 1: hit some trees and went head first in the ground.

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Speaker 1: So are you serious you were shorter? Yeah? Really? Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: where I don't know, somewhere in Georgia. What's the time

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Speaker 1: frame on something like that, Like from the time you

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Speaker 1: you jump out to the time it's it's about probably

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Speaker 1: fifteen twenty seconds if I remember correctly, because it's fast

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Speaker 1: enough that you have a good chance. I think they

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Speaker 1: want like no more than a fifth of the people

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Speaker 1: to be hurt. So it's fast enough that but it's

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Speaker 1: also but it's slow enough to keep you from everybody

379
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Speaker 1: getting hurt, but fast enough that it's hard to shoot

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Speaker 1: you when you're going through there. Okay, so there's a practicality,

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00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 1: there's some practical force. When they gave you your sun jacket,

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Speaker 1: did you have to like do anything dangerous? Well, we

383
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Speaker 1: did do our parachute training, which was of course us

384
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Speaker 1: on a zip line doing the completely non dangerous version

385
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Speaker 1: of this. So we did the parachute train is like,

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Speaker 1: hey man, if you ever eject, it's like what feet together,

387
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 1: needs together, and you kind of just try to like

388
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Speaker 1: do the worm onto the ground to kind of absorb

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Speaker 1: the impact. We didn't have to actually jump out of

390
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Speaker 1: planes if you have to. Yeah, army guys had to

391
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Speaker 1: jump out of planes pilots, sunglasses and top gun jacket.

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Speaker 1: Did you go to dance school to learn the worm first? No,

393
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: they just we did karaoke training how to sing uh

394
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Speaker 1: you lost that love and feeling I like it? I

395
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: like it? And to kind of tie it up. Having

396
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Speaker 1: made that fifth jump, I got this little merit badge

397
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Speaker 1: and then in military parlance, I was called a five

398
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Speaker 1: jump chump. Bringing it back to the Cumberland. Everything back

399
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Speaker 1: in the club. Um. So there was just this week,

400
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Speaker 1: just this week, the Missouri Department of Conservation, it says

401
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 1: public CORRP cooperation leads to multiple arrests for gross over

402
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Speaker 1: limit of squirrels. Yeah, sures. A group of sixteen had

403
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Speaker 1: been hunting for two days and harvested four hundred and

404
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Speaker 1: seventy one squirrels. Okay, aside from like just the many

405
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: things that probably were happening here. If you if you

406
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Speaker 1: put me in and Michael Lanier and like the best

407
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Speaker 1: squirrel hunters I know and gave us, you know how

408
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Speaker 1: many days a couple of days, two days to kill squirrels,

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Speaker 1: we'd be we'd be scrapping. So these boys are some

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Speaker 1: squirrel hunters. Now, there's many questions like where do you

411
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Speaker 1: get you and fifteen year closest friends who all want

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Speaker 1: to go squirrel hunting? Yeah, no doubt I can. I

413
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: can barely find one or two. Yeah, there's a lot

414
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Speaker 1: of unanswered questions. And the picture of the squirrels, they're

415
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: all like charred, burned rats. That's what it looks like. Yeah,

416
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 1: you know when I saw it because I actually saw

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Speaker 1: it on the Mediator Instagram page, and I had a

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Speaker 1: lot of initial questions about what was happening here and why,

419
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Speaker 1: But I thought, you know, these could just be because

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00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: this is Missouri, there's some major cities and there these

421
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: could just be some suburban guys who got squirrels in

422
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 1: their attic and got upset. I mean, I think I've

423
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 1: had one squirrel in our attic and I could understand

424
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 1: how they would drive you to that level. Probably there

425
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: was a there was a clue inside of here is

426
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: that they were non resident squirrel hunters. Okay, so they

427
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: have dogs, they were out of staters. They're out of staters,

428
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 1: they have dogs. Well, I'm wondering if he doesn't say,

429
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: I don't think so an urban nighte uh person experienced

430
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: this squirrel in the attic and then it drove them

431
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: to the woods. I'm going to take out this aggression.

432
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,719
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I thought. And it made sense to

433
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: me how how a squirrel could do that to how

434
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: it could become a personal thing man, you know. And

435
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: I got to get these guys on the podcast. Hey

436
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: not cool, guys, is poaching, But tell us your secrets. Yeah,

437
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 1: how many squirrels in like an eastern deciduous forest, a

438
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 1: healthy forest in public land? How many squirrels per like

439
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,959
Speaker 1: what's the density of a squirrel? I really don't have

440
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: a scientific answer for that, but I know that these

441
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: guys were Probably they were in some real good squirrel country,

442
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: or they were covering a lot of ground because there

443
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 1: is not I mean, we have a hard time in

444
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: the Ozarks killing the limited squirrels, which is that they're

445
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 1: per person, so it would be three twenty so they

446
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: were a hundred and sixty over so other than my

447
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: theory of just personal aggression. Yeah, why would someone the

448
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: squirrel cook Off? Yeah? Yeah, they're getting ready for the

449
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: Arkansas Yeah canceled. Yeah, especially to be this weekend. That's right, dude,

450
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: you might be onto, man, you might really be honest, buddy.

451
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: Joe Wilson up in Bentonville, Arkansas, puts on the World

452
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 1: Championship Squirrel cook Off. Um, there's a podcast did about Yeah, yeah,

453
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: we did. We did a podcast with it. It's really

454
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: a cool event where they could call these squirrels there.

455
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 1: There are some cultures outside of Southern people that deeply

456
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: value squirrel mate, and I would assume that these people

457
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: were some of those kinds. So there's some squirrel mate,

458
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: So they intended it to eat it, were gonna they weren't.

459
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: Just about the fact that they burned the hair off

460
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: of them tells you that they were probably gonna use

461
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: the skin in some way. Yeah, I mean, because typically

462
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: we would skin a squirrel. Yeah, you know, the hide

463
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: would just be refuse, you know, So they were gonna

464
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: cook those suckers whole. So you know, so really you're

465
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: talking like they killed an extra five squirrels a person

466
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: over two days negative, way more than five per day.

467
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: So that's half your daily limit over over, so it

468
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: would be fifteen person a day. They weren't good with math,

469
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: pretty complex maths. Well that's a good thing. That defense.

470
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: What's that I'm not good with math? Is that the defense?

471
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: That's a good that's a good reason that like I

472
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about like getting over my limit

473
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: of squirrels. Yeah, just not that good at squirrel Yeah,

474
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: just send you off on a mule and say, remember

475
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: the same out as your fingers. You'll get them you

476
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: like a like a lanyard off of each hand. Well,

477
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: we're about to start doing some scroll hunting here soon.

478
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: It's it's about Tom. Let me know. Yeah, for sure,

479
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: I got a mule. It needs to be written. Yes

480
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: you do, Yeah you do. I'm taking your mule with

481
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: me today. I don't cool. Yeah I am. Yeah, I'm

482
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: taking two. I'm taking Easy and Ace to uh to

483
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: bait our back country bear bait over there. He's a

484
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: pretty solid fellow. So one of the mules that I

485
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: keep here is Colby's Mule. So yeah, Hey, Soils from

486
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: the Earth the podcast massive gamble to to have the

487
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: audacity to think that we could entertain people, because I

488
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: think people come to podcasts start. People don't come to

489
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: podcast just to get taught something. I mean, you go

490
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: to college and listen to someone lecture to get taught something,

491
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: and you have to pay to be there, and that's

492
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: the only reason you go. And it's not fun. Like

493
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: people come to a podcast to kind of be entertained,

494
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: kind of learned something, but mainly to be entertained. And uh,

495
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: this Soils podcast, you know, we've kind of had in

496
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: the hopper for a while. And uh, but the one

497
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: thing that Soils too is that fits into the bear grease.

498
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: The idea of Beargrease is that I knew that it

499
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: would be insightful for people that don't have much knowledge

500
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: of the soil so because it's it's that's what I

501
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: do love stuff that when you go into it thinking,

502
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: thinking you understand something, and then really getting some insight

503
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: out of it. I mean that was my experience as

504
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: I studied soils twenty years ago and Dr Miller's class.

505
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: It was just like, Wow, this is fascinating. What do

506
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: you think? Actually, Uh, my wife, which is kind of

507
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: weird to say, uh, with me listening to it, and

508
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: she's like, man, this is really interesting and she really

509
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: liked it too. Uh. It was eye opening. I think

510
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: the part that I liked the most that was dr

511
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: Woods and just how all the things that he had

512
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,479
Speaker 1: learned and done just out of his own energy, you know,

513
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: and to pursue it. And that was really cool to say.

514
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: Hear like someone that's doing something. And I was whenever

515
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: the the I didn't read the description or anything, but

516
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: whenever I started listening to it and heard what was about,

517
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: I was like, men of hope, Spence is on there

518
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: forecast that he was gonna be Yeah. Yeah. When I

519
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: heard his voice, I was like, it feels good to

520
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: be right, Um, But I didn't just like seeing like

521
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: what happens to a pasture pre impost Spence bringing his

522
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: his kid of poultry out there. Uh, it's really cool

523
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: to see what changes inside of just like on a

524
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: small scale, inside of that environment, and so that over

525
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: several years it would be really cool too to see.

526
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: I mean, even like thinking about owning land, I'm thinking, man,

527
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: I'd love to be able to try to do something

528
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: like that and just make it better than when I

529
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: took it over, you know, uh with like that or

530
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: like the guys at landing legacy with putting in native

531
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: species and making a cool environment and just controlling that atmosphere.

532
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: So I was like, man, soilist is going even deeper

533
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: than I thought. Uh, you know, because growing up we

534
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: always fertilized our gardens, tealed it up. It's like what

535
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: is triplet. It's a mix of stuff chemicals. It's the

536
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: most common like fertilizer and go to the store. It's

537
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: got the m p K your nitrogen, phosphorus potassium. Yeah.

538
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting that Um, I wouldn't have

539
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: known it that chemical fertilizers. Nitrogen fertilizer was developed by Germans.

540
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: The Germans habor pross Us I think is what it's called. Yeah,

541
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: so we didn't even have chemical fertilizers until you know,

542
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: the forties. It's super interesting all the things that we

543
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: got that are kind of a byproduct of that of

544
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: world the World War two. Yeah, I mean it's it's

545
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: so interesting because when you think about processed food, and

546
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff came from that same all

547
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: that same research that was useful in that context, and

548
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: then they tried to apply it and make it useful

549
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: in other contexts. It's created a lot of problems. Most

550
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: of the like all the insecticides, a lot of them

551
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: were really disturbingly close to nerve gas that was used

552
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: in World War Two when the Nazis, and a lot

553
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: of rebranding there, you know, even getting up to like

554
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: that's one way to see, you know. And the Dr

555
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: Wood was Dr Woods, he mentioned that, you know, he's like,

556
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,959
Speaker 1: it's in agriculture, that's the big thing. Like I was

557
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: listening to a football program, you know, like for the

558
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: University of Arkansas, and and one of the sponsors of

559
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: the program was an herb side company, you know, for

560
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: rice farmers, you know, and it's just you can't make

561
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 1: money to unless you're selling to farmers, and so all

562
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: these things are there to get sold. Well it's it's

563
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's you can't really talk bad about fertilizer

564
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: because it's it's such a complex system. And I hope

565
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: that inside the podcast it didn't feel like an attack

566
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: on agriculture because and I thought Dr Woods did a

567
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 1: good job of saying that, you know, these farmers are

568
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: fitting inside of a system, just like the chicken farmers

569
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: are spends. Just like you said, there's there's there's people

570
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: that grow for these big organizations. And to grow for

571
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: those organizations, you have to fit inside of the shape

572
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: of being a chicken farmer. And you know you said

573
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: that you guys are outside of that system. And I mean,

574
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: you know, I've got good friends in the delta. We

575
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: all do, probably in this room. I'm married into a

576
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 1: rice and soybean family. Yeah, And I mean, so that's

577
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: why I said that, really what needs to happen is

578
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: a reformation. A reformation is not just let's do things different,

579
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,879
Speaker 1: it's let's change the whole system. And I mean that's

580
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: a big bite, because there's all these farmers that have

581
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 1: their whole lives and their whole everything they do is

582
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: built inside of a current system that does work for

583
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: them financially, right, and that that actually came from its

584
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: own I mean the Green Revolution, Norman Borlog won a

585
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: nomail peace price because some of like genetically modified wheat

586
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: so that it could feed more people. The idea behind

587
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: some of these things was to actually feed hungry a

588
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: growing population on planet Earth and in places that didn't

589
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: have up tomal weather conditions, and it has had by products,

590
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: but I mean originally the motive for some of these things,

591
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: some of the things inside that system. Yeah, where we're

592
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: actually humanitating wonderful things. So how do you how do

593
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: you do that? Like that was really a question that

594
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: I kind of had even after this research for this

595
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 1: is like what do you do when a system is

596
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: not really sustainable but it fuels everything right now and

597
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: the present. Because what we're saying when we're looking back

598
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: at civilizations and the soil is that the current way

599
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: we're doing things is pretty much guaranteed. You know, at

600
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: some point in the future the system is going to break.

601
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: I mean, is that you and I mean if we're

602
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 1: talking about ten years, no, But if we're talking about

603
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: civilizations like Babylonia, Mesopotamia, these guys did stuff for a

604
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: thousand years and this this baseline kept moving of what

605
00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 1: was normal, and here we are this extreme namely young nation.

606
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: I mean, we've been having agriculture for a hundred and

607
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: fifty years or so in this country. Well, and it

608
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 1: depends where you're at, yeah, I mean big Midwest agriculture

609
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: for sure, you're talking about Yeah, but the I mean

610
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 1: in dirt that book that we were talking about, the dirt,

611
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: The Erosion of Civilizations by David Montgomery, I think is

612
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: his name. He said he correlates the rise and fall

613
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: of civilization, is not so succinctly with just erosion, but

614
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 1: he said it's you know, we look, major civilization lasts

615
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: a thousand years and they erode their dirt and about

616
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: a thousand years, right, and then he brings it up

617
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 1: to present and says we're on track to do it

618
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 1: in about two d and fifty mm hmm, which starts

619
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: making you. I mean this. I was thinking about this

620
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: on the way down here. The idea that we have

621
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 1: removed ourselves as a culture from the way we produce food.

622
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: And this is something I've talked about a lot with hunting,

623
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: where it's like, I think you should participate. If you're

624
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: gonna eat meat, you should participate and know what it

625
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: feels like to kill something because that has a weight

626
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: and a gravity that will make you cherish this product.

627
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: It will make you understand everything that went into it.

628
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: And in the same way agriculture, it's like we're routing

629
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: eroding soil. When the soil is gone, we don't have food.

630
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: When we don't have food, we're gone. Like it's a

631
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: very big problem. But I think what you're looking at, though,

632
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: it's it's not just agriculture. It's a human problem. It's

633
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,399
Speaker 1: that we're like blips on I mean, just our lives.

634
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: Lives are like flashes, and our capacity to radically alter

635
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: this system that moves on just a completely different time scale,

636
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: you know, like and whether it's agriculture, whether it's education,

637
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 1: whether it's politics, whether it's like the national debt in America.

638
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: I mean, all these things we know like this isn't sustainable,

639
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: this isn't sustainable, but we're kind of it's that what

640
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: the sunk cost fallacy or there's an economic term where

641
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: we kind of just put so much into it we

642
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: can't turn around now, and we can't turn around now,

643
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 1: you know. And it so I don't think it's just

644
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: it was interesting to look at it at the lens

645
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: of agriculture, but I think you're just looking at a

646
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 1: human problem. In in uh, you have a book up

647
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: there on the shelf called The Unsettling of America by

648
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: Wendel Berry, and he talks about renewable energy, and he

649
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: he was this book was, by the way, published in

650
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven, and it feels as relevant today as

651
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: it I'm sure it did back then. But he talks

652
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 1: about renewable energy and him and his friend were having

653
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: a conversation like his nuclear the way is solar the way,

654
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: and Wendell's takeaway was like, we'll find a way to

655
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: kill ourselves with whatever consumption is the issue, Well, it

656
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: seems to be a consistent problem. You know what you

657
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,240
Speaker 1: said about a human lifespan is the issue at hand,

658
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: because we are And I think that's what fascinates me

659
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: about looking back at history and about seeing all these

660
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 1: these old guys and studying them and studying about the earth,

661
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: is that we are just were. It sounds cliche, but

662
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: it's true. We will We are here for such a

663
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: short short time. It's kind of like a grass fire.

664
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: I think about a think about a grass fire. The

665
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: grass fire, there's this one small little edge that all

666
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: the attention is on, and it's moving across the landscape,

667
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: and everything behind it's burned, and everything in front of

668
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,919
Speaker 1: it is not burned. And if you were to turn

669
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: loose people to deal with it, all you could think

670
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: about would be that edge of the grass fire, you

671
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 1: wouldn't be looking ahead. But how do they put out

672
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: grass fires? A lot of times they go way in

673
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: front of the grass fire and fix a break up there.

674
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: But now, this idea of reformation is a word that

675
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 1: that we use sometimes just about how the system is broke.

676
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 1: And man, that's a hard thing to say, because I mean,

677
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of people's faces and names that I know

678
00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: that are farmers, that they're making a good living there,

679
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: happy inside of the system. That but but it's not

680
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: it's certainly not the best system. But well I even

681
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: think of like we it's kind of like not knowing

682
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: you're sick. Especially with dr woods talked about you know,

683
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: settlers they when they walked across or when they could

684
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: ride their horse through the woods and not lose their

685
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 1: hat because the trees are so happy because his ears

686
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: blocked the limbs. But you know, like you think of

687
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: the chestnuts and that when you hear like what forests

688
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 1: look like or the woods two hundred years ago, it's

689
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: radically different than what I would consider. Oh look at

690
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: this good stand up hickory and oaks out in this holler. Yeah,

691
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: you know, you know, and it's like we're trying to

692
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 1: preserve things that we don't even know what they were.

693
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: We we have land on one of the rivers around here,

694
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: and and there's a huge erosion problem. I've I've got

695
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: farmland with cut bank and it's cost me thousands of

696
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: dollars a year. We knew it when we got it.

697
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: It's just, you know, we're trying to figure out how

698
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: to deal with that. And my whole viewpoint was radically

699
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 1: shifted by this eighty four year old cattle woman who

700
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,919
Speaker 1: still builds her own barber fence. Were on the other

701
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: side of the river, and we're talking about the river

702
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 1: and the gravel mining that had set all this off,

703
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: and she's like, oh, well, you know, the river didn't

704
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: even used to be here, right. She's like, I learned

705
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: to swim, and she points across the valley where to

706
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: the other like side of the where the ground goes up,

707
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: you know, the ridge. She says, I learned to swim

708
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: there in the forties and that's where that's where there

709
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: used to be. And then they were digging all this

710
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: gravel and the river jumped and it's been like that

711
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,879
Speaker 1: for decades. But there were no like aerial maps back

712
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: then you know, or the river meandered well a lot,

713
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 1: they dug gravel. They were digging gravel next to the river. Yeah,

714
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 1: and it just hopped over to where man had been. Yeah,

715
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: So the river wasn't even there, It wasn't in Like,

716
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 1: it's mind boggling to sit there because there's like beavers

717
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: and there's you know, and it's real pretty and we

718
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: want to restore it. But the thing is, it's like

719
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: you're not really restoring it. Yeah, you know. So it's

720
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: just all these are they're not black and white questions

721
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: there like even and I thought, and it's good to

722
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: think about these things that. The other part to that

723
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: it was just so fascinating to me is that the

724
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: Ozarks were terraformed by Native Americans before Europeans got here.

725
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: So this, like even that picture that we were getting

726
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: back to was like carefully managed by seasonal burns and uh, undergrowth.

727
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:39,919
Speaker 1: What you mean about terraformed um shaping the earth. It's

728
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: so like when the Europeans got here, there had not

729
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,959
Speaker 1: been uh and Brooks Levin's talks about this in his book,

730
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: but there wasn't any year round people living in the Ozarks.

731
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:51,879
Speaker 1: They were just coming in. But even so they were

732
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: changing the landscape to aid them in their hunting and

733
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: they're gathering. Um, if you take out the undergrowth from

734
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 1: trees that produce mass c ops, you can graze animals

735
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: under there. It's just like, so we walk in and

736
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: I heard somebody describe it as um, we thought we

737
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: were in an Edenic paradise, but really it was just

738
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: the hard work of the Native Americans who had come before,

739
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: and then we extra pated them and then we're like

740
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,879
Speaker 1: this is perfect, and then everything changed and because which

741
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 1: is not. It's not say any of that is bad,

742
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: it is to be for me. It's like, be cognizant

743
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: of the good ways that you can steward the land

744
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: because there was a sustainable system in place that we've

745
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 1: I mean, I was just out west and there's wildfires everywhere,

746
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: but we've sort of chewed the use of uh controlled burns.

747
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, it seems like a great tool

748
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,439
Speaker 1: to mitigate some of that fuel. Yeah, what what made

749
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 1: you want to do this podcast over soils? Like you said,

750
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: had been in the hopper a while. Well, just my

751
00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: initial fascination with soils and Dr Miller's class. Like I said,

752
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: I came into his soil. I said, I studied soils

753
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 1: almost by accident, which was very true. Man, I didn't

754
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 1: even want to go to college. Um, I really didn't

755
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: like my If Gary was here, he could tell the

756
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: whole story. But I mean, in our family, you went

757
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: to college. And that was because my grandfather, Lewin Knwcom,

758
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: was the first Nucomb that ever went to college. And

759
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: it was a big deal back in the forties to

760
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: go to go to go to college. You know, these

761
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: poor rural people in Arkansas going to college. Well, he

762
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: came out very adamant with his kids about the way

763
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: you make yourself in this world is go to college.

764
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: So he just pounded into Gary Knucom's head you got

765
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: to go to college. And so Gary Knwcomb pounded that

766
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: into me such that it almost I didn't want to

767
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 1: go almost in probably not rebellion. It wasn't straight rebellion,

768
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: but it was just like, I'm not sure if this

769
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: is important as you think it is. Well, and then

770
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: I got married and I decided that it was good

771
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 1: for me to go to college. And I went to college,

772
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: and I never I never really used my degree for anything,

773
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: because when I got to college, I started working for myself,

774
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: and I worked for myself until a year ago. I

775
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: want to start working for me eater um. But that

776
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: college education was incredible for me, truly was. And I

777
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: you know, you might get the sense that me and

778
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: Dr Miller are like best friends. He didn't remember who

779
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 1: I was. Like. I walked in his office and he goes,

780
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: I mean you know I I had emailed him and

781
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: been like, hey, I'm a former student. You were my advisor.

782
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: You know, um, I'd like to do this podcast with you,

783
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,919
Speaker 1: and he was like, sure, come on. And I get

784
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 1: in his office and he goes, yeah, I think I

785
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: remember you, and I stayd out with him. But he

786
00:46:55,320 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 1: was he was influal, not not for soils his engaging

787
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: style of lecturing. And I remember he was one of

788
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: the first classes I took, and I liked the way

789
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: the guy talked, And in years later I would say

790
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: that I learned how to talk when I was in

791
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,839
Speaker 1: college just by being around educated people that were using

792
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: words on purpose, and Dr Miller was the first one

793
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: of that. I didn't really tell him that. So if

794
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 1: he listens to this, Dr Miller, thank you. Um, I didn't.

795
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: I didn't say that to him. But I didn't want

796
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: to wear him out too much like you, because I

797
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,439
Speaker 1: was a good student, got a whole wall at home.

798
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: He's a cool guy, he really is, but he uh.

799
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 1: But when I took his took his class, and you

800
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 1: know who picked my degree for me, like literally picked

801
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 1: it out of a book. Like I was like, man,

802
00:47:53,719 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, Missy Nucleam. So I came anybody could

803
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: have done that. I came home and she said, I

804
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 1: think you needed to get a degree in environment crop,

805
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 1: soil environmental science. And I said, sounds good to me.

806
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: They didn't have wildlife biology here. That wasn't an option.

807
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:17,479
Speaker 1: It was a miner. By the time I was kicking

808
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: around it all right, almost had a modern biology. I

809
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: also was the one that kind of encouragedly to drop

810
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 1: out of college the first time. It's like, you don't

811
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 1: have to go to college. I mean we met, we

812
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 1: were young, and you can take that out as well.

813
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 1: So to answer your question, when I went into Dr

814
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: Miller soils class, I had no idea that I was

815
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 1: going to learn something so fundamental to the human experience.

816
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:46,839
Speaker 1: I thought, oh, I'm sorry, not all go. I thought

817
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 1: it was really interesting how when he was talking about

818
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: the Roman Empire and uh in Italy where they basically

819
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 1: just eroded all the soils way down to rock, and

820
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 1: how that literally shaped the culture of what we think

821
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: of when we think of Italy and Italian food. He

822
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: was like, all they had left was rock, so they

823
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: planted what they say, grapes and all of what is

824
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: Italian food, I mean it's wine, and it's like shaped

825
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: the culinary history and how we even perceive Italy as

826
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,919
Speaker 1: a as a country Italian food because that's what they had,

827
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,760
Speaker 1: That's what they did. At the end of the Roman Empire,

828
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 1: it was illegal for a farmer's son to leave the

829
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: farm to pursue another career because it was so desolate,

830
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: like nobody was staying on the farm and they couldn't

831
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: produce any food they had there. Yah, they're like, nope,

832
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: you've you've got to go even though you're producing like nothing.

833
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: That's crazy. You think, like in the Middle East talking

834
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: land flowing with milk and honey and all these areas

835
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 1: that we look at that are desolate now, like what

836
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: do they look like back? You know? And I think,

837
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: what's what's someone a thousand years from now going to

838
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: think about, you know, the planes of the US. You know,

839
00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:01,879
Speaker 1: like I've seen a picture is of from the dust

840
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 1: Bowl and it's it's a it's mind boggling. Like I

841
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 1: saw this one where there's one like blue stem plant

842
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,399
Speaker 1: or it's some prairie grass and it's on a three

843
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 1: foot pillar of soil and everything else around it has

844
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: gone and it was the roots system this one holdout.

845
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 1: But I mean it's like it's a chest high on

846
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: a guy that's walking by. But all that, like Dr

847
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 1: Miller said, two ft of soil in like a day,

848
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,320
Speaker 1: that's pretty crazy. I I we actually watched a documentary

849
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: that there's a Kim Burns documentary on the desk Bowl,

850
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: and you know, kim Burns spares no detail. They're very

851
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 1: in depth documentaries, and it was so so interesting how

852
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: just a man made disaster. It was pretty wild. And

853
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: you know, if you're from these parts, then you would know,

854
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: Like my great grandparents traveled to California for work. They

855
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: weren't from Oklahoma, they were from from this area. But

856
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: the lot of people moved moved to Oaky's from Muskogee.

857
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 1: That was the It was like a derogatory, a derogatory termament,

858
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: just such a tragic. There was a whole Arkansas, Oklahoma

859
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: to California, you know, like just a huge migration of people.

860
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: And it's Woody Guthrie, Like every other song is about

861
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:27,439
Speaker 1: the dust Bowl Merle Haggard's parents. Yeah. The one thing

862
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: that we did talking about massive amounts of soil erosion

863
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 1: like what happened in the dust Bowl, and then talking

864
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,760
Speaker 1: and bringing it also back to uh DR Woods talking

865
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:42,760
Speaker 1: about five tons per year per acre on average flowing

866
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: off of fields in Iowa. Um, we just didn't have

867
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: time to get into this, but soil going into water

868
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: systems is massive, massive levels of environmental degradation. Um. You know,

869
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: I remember just being shocked. And Dr Miller was the

870
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: one who talked to me about the the dead, the

871
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: two square mild dead in the mouth where the Mississippi

872
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: River flows into the Gulf of Mexico. I mean, I

873
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,439
Speaker 1: really wonder how many people actually know that and believe it.

874
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 1: I mean, like, you know, twenty years ago, there's no

875
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 1: such saying as fake news. So when someone told you

876
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 1: something that was true, you just were like, Okay, you

877
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: know he's saying now, you say it now, And people

878
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: are like, probably that's you know, some political but so

879
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: just because we didn't get to get into it on

880
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 1: the podcast, nutrients and soil get into water systems and

881
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 1: become nutrients and water systems that promote algal blooms and

882
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,800
Speaker 1: other types of plants growing in water that suck away

883
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:50,839
Speaker 1: oxygen that kill animals. So essentially, you know, you're you're

884
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 1: I want Spence to say what he's gonna say, because

885
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:55,400
Speaker 1: I'm interrupting him, But I just wanted to say that

886
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 1: real simple thing like nitrogen potassium phosphorus in your water

887
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: might as well pour diesel fuel in it. And that's

888
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 1: interesting that you bring that up, because that's a good

889
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 1: example of the synergistic negative effect that human actions have,

890
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: right of good intentions. So what did we do to

891
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: the Mississippi? You know, Mark Plain, you know, used to

892
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 1: be a steamboat captain all that, and it was a

893
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 1: specialized thing when we channelized that more jobs, more people.

894
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: Look at a map from the thirties of the coast

895
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 1: of Louisiana and now go Google Earth and zoom in,

896
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 1: and there are lakes like you know how they'll put

897
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: the name of a lake and it's just like out

898
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 1: in the Gulf, like they lose Like I don't. I

899
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 1: think it's like a football field a minute or something

900
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: down there, a wetlands that's been going on that the

901
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: ocean is overtaking. Well no, that so what happened is

902
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 1: that soil that washed down. That's a natural process, and

903
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 1: it would go down, but it would all slow down

904
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 1: when it hit the delta, and it would you like,

905
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 1: it would have the speed of the river and it

906
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: would like just settle out and then marsh land would

907
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: grow and that protected like from hurricanes and and just

908
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 1: like that. What that's what? Yeah, and Louisiana on their

909
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:11,320
Speaker 1: license plate Sportsman's Paradise, you know, that's where all your shrimp,

910
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 1: all these industries right well because of the the oil industry,

911
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 1: which is huge down there. Um. And that's not a

912
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 1: knock on them. I drive a car, I put diesel

913
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: in my tractor, you know like that. If you look,

914
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 1: there's all these channels. They cut all these channels to

915
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 1: make things go faster and barges. But what that did

916
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: is it pretty much made a shotgun effect of all

917
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: those nutrients and all that soil, so stuff like phosphorus,

918
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: it's sticky, it's sticks on soil. So when it goes

919
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 1: in the water. It's attached to that soil, and so

920
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 1: instead of going out and slowing down and you've you've

921
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 1: seen it on creeks and that kind of stuff, you

922
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: know where a fludle happened, and the the smaller stuff

923
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: is up closer to the bank, and then the bigger stuff. Now,

924
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 1: so that would fan out and then you get like

925
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: all these marsh plants would grow up. Well, we have

926
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: lie channelize that and turned it into a big shotgun.

927
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 1: So where is it used to meander? Now it's straight

928
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 1: as an arrow, and it just I mean, it's like

929
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 1: a luge out there. Just all that stuff blasts out

930
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: and it fuels what you're talking about. So instead of

931
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:18,359
Speaker 1: getting fuel and plant life and and and doing that,

932
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 1: it goes out and it's just bacteria. They eat all oxygen,

933
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 1: they grow, they die, they turn toxic, and it kills

934
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 1: everything square mile area in the Gulf of Mexico that

935
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: has no aquatic life. Basically, I just we we just

936
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: hunted that in January and it's just like you're getting

937
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,919
Speaker 1: the boat and drive for sixteen miles in a straight line.

938
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 1: M it's a river, but instead of being curved down there,

939
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: it's not. It's not a river anymore. It's just a

940
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: channel that they have like straightened and engineered. And yeah,

941
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 1: I wondered how that happened. That makes sense when you

942
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:57,839
Speaker 1: drive into the so we're we're located, we're real close

943
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 1: with Oklahoma actually Oklahoma MS reboundaries. And when you drive

944
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: as a our kids play basketball across state lines a lot.

945
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:09,879
Speaker 1: They go to small school and they play smaller school

946
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 1: just across the line. And when you drive from Arkansas,

947
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: our legendary former basketball coaches state state champ. Somehow I

948
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 1: knew that. Okay, you don't want coaching against your boys.

949
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 1: Go ahead, and Mr, We're gonna have a whole another podcast.

950
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 1: All right, see drive across the state line and there's

951
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 1: a big sound, really great play called Flippers. Sorry Mrs.

952
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: It's an inbounds play and Van we scored more points flippers,

953
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 1: and coaches would yell at children we got we got

954
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 1: a hand signal that we do from the bench, a

955
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 1: little little little dolphin flippers and all the boys, I

956
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:01,279
Speaker 1: mean it's like we're about to score. Boys, go ahead,

957
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 1: and there's a sign could just go right up. No,

958
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 1: that isn't really good back. But as you're driving, the

959
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 1: kids always ask about this sign. There's a huge poster

960
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: that says stop Arkansas Farmers Chicken farmers from poisoning Oklahoma waters.

961
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 1: And they're talking about that. They're talking about the runoff

962
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 1: Illinois River stuff. Yeah, I just id bring it up

963
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: because I wish they had a son that said welcome instead.

964
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 1: You don't have any reviews we're going to get Now

965
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: if people said, oh wow, they got arks Chicken lobby

966
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 1: is going to come down on your man. We're in

967
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: the heart of the matter here too. Space What I

968
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: was gonna say, this is kind of moving away from

969
00:57:57,120 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 1: and when Grant Wood said that oranges of the vitamin

970
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 1: C they used to have or he started going through

971
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 1: less iron than what it contained thirty years that's not

972
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 1: even long ago. Like that. Yeah, that's gotta be the

973
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 1: difference at the soil. I mean, that's gotta I don't

974
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: know what else could account for the just the taste

975
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: difference that you're dealing with their someone's variety and heart.

976
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's all it's all true. You know, Like

977
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: there's this myth that this stuff isn't sustainable. But like

978
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 1: when you look at like if you look in the

979
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: food systems of like in Europe, and like the eighteen fifties,

980
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 1: it was all based on horses and mules and transportation

981
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: because instead of exhaust when you think of like transportation

982
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 1: two years ago, what was the byproduct of that transportation manure?

983
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: So what fueled agriculture manure? When you go to Europe,

984
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: there's actually like soil types that are because of the

985
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 1: newer like you can identify where over centuries the manure

986
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 1: editions and so like. It's not that humans can't manage

987
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 1: and can't live without being destructive. We can, it's just

988
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: not the way we're doing it now, you know. And

989
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 1: and so there's there's just these qualities of flexibility and

990
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 1: change and just being cognizant of what are aware of

991
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 1: the impact we have and and a lot of those

992
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 1: things you find them in the hunting community. I don't hunt,

993
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: but I know a lot of the dough. And then

994
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 1: and then I was like, I could grow a lot

995
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 1: more chicken than what I've spent on being in this

996
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:49,440
Speaker 1: dough in the time. So I think it's kind of

997
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 1: mean because we've seen it over thousands of years. It's

998
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 1: just antithetical to human nature to kind of be conscious

999
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: of what's going to happen after we die. We just

1000
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: people don't want to do it. And that's and that's

1001
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 1: what it takes. You know, like you said, people in

1002
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 1: Europe have you know, had that sustainable that sustainable I

1003
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: guess lifestyle and the way that they operated because of

1004
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 1: the byproduct of you know, their transportation, things like that.

1005
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 1: But I mean the things in Iraq from thousands of years,

1006
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 1: people moving and moving, moving and turning in once the

1007
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 1: fertile crescent, the cradle of civilization and turning into a

1008
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 1: waste land. It's just takes a conscious effort from from people.

1009
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 1: It's not what we're wired to do. I don't think

1010
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 1: it's too is to think beyond our lifetime. I'm glad

1011
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 1: you brought it back to death because I thought the

1012
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 1: green burial was super interesting and I'm considering it and

1013
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 1: considering getting rid of the coffin from under my bed.

1014
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 1: I just don't know your kids and your grandkids. Yeah,

1015
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to find an Yeah, I just have

1016
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 1: a hole in my field that pop out of that.

1017
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 1: And when I shocked, like I shocked Gobble, my domesticated turkeys.

1018
01:00:57,600 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 1: And so the big joke with one of my with

1019
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 1: my daughter is Hey, hey, you know how I make

1020
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 1: my turkey's gobble? Should be like no, Daddy, don't do it.

1021
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 1: And I do like a super lives Yeah, I like

1022
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 1: green barrels. Though I didn't realized it was saying. I was, well,

1023
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 1: what was so ridiculous about it is that we even

1024
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 1: thought anything about it? I mean, how do you think

1025
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 1: they buried people? Yeah, the Egyptians mummy five people, and

1026
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 1: we've had some kind of embalming thing for like a

1027
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 1: very short part of human existence. Most humans that have

1028
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 1: ever been born on this planet died and within twenty

1029
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: four hours that were in the ground, like a lot

1030
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 1: of sky burials from certain native culture just all very natural. Though.

1031
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 1: I had a buddy just die unexpectedly recently, and the

1032
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 1: hoops that his wife had to jump through to not

1033
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 1: go to a funeral home and stuff like that, like

1034
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 1: the cemetery wouldn't dig a hole for him because they're like,

1035
01:01:58,320 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 1: we're not gonna do it if it's not going through

1036
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 1: a funeral home. Wow, this is got really deep because

1037
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 1: they finally found a cemetery and incredibly, uh they dug

1038
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:13,840
Speaker 1: the hole with his own back ho Uh. It was.

1039
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 1: It was incredible because if you knew the guy. It

1040
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: was like, this is perfect because the only regret other

1041
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 1: than him dying was uh that he was not able

1042
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:24,000
Speaker 1: to tell the story because he was one of the

1043
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 1: best storytellers in the world. Young guy. Yeah, but uh yeah,

1044
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: his he had loaned his back ho to somebody had

1045
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 1: broken down. They had just gotten it fixed, found a plot.

1046
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 1: His buddy built a pine box basically put him in it.

1047
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:41,960
Speaker 1: Had to rent a U haul truck to get it

1048
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:43,600
Speaker 1: over there. We had to figure out how to get

1049
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 1: him in the ground with toast wraps. It was, uh,

1050
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 1: it was like that weird laugh cry thing where this

1051
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:51,200
Speaker 1: is ridiculous and somebody's gonna fall in the grave trying

1052
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 1: to get the box in here. But it was their

1053
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 1: perfect Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it was just through this like

1054
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: this is no big But it was a cool experience

1055
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 1: because it was like an alternative to what I had

1056
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 1: seen modeled. But it was also just kind of remarkable

1057
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 1: because I mean, it did it happened, I think, you know,

1058
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:15,959
Speaker 1: thirty six hours after he had passed, so like having

1059
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:18,120
Speaker 1: to make that happen because he wasn't getting embalmed and

1060
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 1: all that stuff. But it was kind of weird to think,

1061
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 1: like to just do it naturally or relatively naturally is

1062
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 1: a burden. Yeah. Well, and it goes back to Clay.

1063
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 1: You talked on the Daniel Boone like people just they

1064
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 1: were comfortable with death. Yea, Like in society now we

1065
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 1: insulated all like whether it's food. Like one of the

1066
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 1: big drivers to people not eating meat is thinking that

1067
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 1: an animal has to be killed. When you put that

1068
01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:52,160
Speaker 1: animal up in the wild and you think, you think

1069
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 1: me with at the process and plants bad. You should

1070
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 1: see her at coon, you know, I mean, like yeah,

1071
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 1: and uh, it's just it's not human. Yeah, you know,

1072
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 1: I mean, like to there there's something missing from the

1073
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: human experience. And I think that's what I got out

1074
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 1: of this, Like you did this beautiful reading from hellel

1075
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 1: who was the author um Out of the Earth and

1076
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 1: Man when it when it talked about Adam and Eve,

1077
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 1: and I mean, it's just there's something when you hear that,

1078
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 1: like in my heart at least, there's something like this

1079
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 1: is like base level humanity. It's like that that phrase

1080
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,240
Speaker 1: deep calls the deep. I mean when I hear that stuff,

1081
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 1: you know, and it like when I'm out in my

1082
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 1: field and I'll just sit down with the birds or

1083
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 1: the critters are probably when you guys are out hunting. Um,

1084
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 1: Like I used to quail hunt a lot gambill quail

1085
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: in southeast Arizona growing up, or i'd go fishing with

1086
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 1: my grandpa, and it's that same thing. It's like to

1087
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 1: just to just feel that your context. I mean, because

1088
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:00,919
Speaker 1: like as much as we don't as my just modern life,

1089
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:05,600
Speaker 1: it's like an illusion. But humanity has been intrically connected

1090
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 1: and still are absolutely like everything that you we all

1091
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 1: are soil. You know, it could come in a plastic package,

1092
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 1: but it started off on the ground and someone tended

1093
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 1: that thing by hand at some point. Now I think

1094
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 1: it these things just hit are on basic humanity. That's what.

1095
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 1: That's why at the end of the podcast, and I

1096
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:31,960
Speaker 1: hope people listen to the end, but you know, there

1097
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:34,959
Speaker 1: was no call to action, so to speak. It wasn't

1098
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:38,240
Speaker 1: like go join this organization or go do this or

1099
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:42,000
Speaker 1: do that. It was just like, hey, if you're a human,

1100
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 1: this is stuff all humans ought to know. Number one

1101
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:49,120
Speaker 1: and then number two. My only called action was next

1102
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 1: time you're out in a wild place, scratch back the leaves,

1103
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:54,720
Speaker 1: scratch back the dirt, pick up a handful of soil,

1104
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:59,440
Speaker 1: look at it, compare the ancientness of that soil to

1105
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 1: your life, and then know that the very atoms of

1106
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 1: your body will one day be soil. And just see

1107
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 1: how that makes you feel when you think about that.

1108
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:17,720
Speaker 1: You know, because it's true. And there was a real

1109
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 1: interesting part of um. It was a really interesting part

1110
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:26,120
Speaker 1: of the interview I did with Dr Miller that I

1111
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 1: did not put on. There where one of my first

1112
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 1: soil classes at the university. I vividly remember. I remember

1113
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:38,200
Speaker 1: who said it, remember where he was, but he said, um,

1114
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't Dr Miller. He said that the very carbon

1115
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 1: atoms that are in our body, which carbon would be

1116
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 1: in all types of different arrangements in our body. But

1117
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 1: a carbon atom itself, or any kind of atom that's

1118
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:57,840
Speaker 1: in the elemental table, would of itself be this building

1119
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 1: block that could not be altered. But you know, carbon

1120
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 1: hooks up with all this other stuff to make different stuff. Okay,

1121
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:07,360
Speaker 1: But the very carbon atoms that are in our body

1122
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:10,200
Speaker 1: could have been the very carbon atoms that were in

1123
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 1: t Rex MHM like they would have changed constituency. T

1124
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 1: Rex died his organ you know, his flesh rotted into soil.

1125
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 1: Some of them became fossils in the fossil record that

1126
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:25,840
Speaker 1: but that fossil isn't the carbon atoms that were in

1127
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 1: him anyway, just a wild thing, the wild understanding that

1128
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 1: mankind is intricately connected to the soil, and it's a

1129
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:37,919
Speaker 1: baseline understanding of the civilization's health is how they treat

1130
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:41,000
Speaker 1: their soils. And to me, that's massively connected to being

1131
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:43,760
Speaker 1: a woodsman. I mean, I I am not interested in

1132
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 1: being a soil scientist. That's just the truth. I mean,

1133
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 1: if I was, I would have been a soil science

1134
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 1: You may get an honorary degree after this though. No.

1135
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:56,760
Speaker 1: My my main interest in in life, in terms of

1136
01:07:57,360 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 1: passions and things I'm doing outside of family and different things,

1137
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 1: is is being a woodsman and understanding animals and how

1138
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 1: those animals live, but also the flora, the the you know,

1139
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 1: the plants and trees and their cycles and all that's

1140
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:16,880
Speaker 1: so fascinating, deeply connected to the soil, so you know,

1141
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:20,080
Speaker 1: to be to me, to be a woodsman is to

1142
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:23,640
Speaker 1: understand the big picture of what's going on. Not just

1143
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 1: being able to go out and kill four seventeen squirrels. Man,

1144
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 1: that was impressive, but should not talk about how that's impressive.

1145
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 1: But you know, do you guys agree like this overarching picture?

1146
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:43,600
Speaker 1: I mean, and to me, if you don't value it,

1147
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:47,280
Speaker 1: just just do a hat tip to soil. Then you

1148
01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:51,720
Speaker 1: ain't no cowboy. What comes back to two like in

1149
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 1: the Hoods, you ain't no Woods. I'll see where I

1150
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:57,760
Speaker 1: was going with that. That's what. Yeah, it goes back

1151
01:08:57,800 --> 01:09:00,519
Speaker 1: to the you know, and I I don't know if

1152
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:02,400
Speaker 1: you covered in the podcast or not, but in the

1153
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:04,680
Speaker 1: hell Hel book he points out that there's kind of

1154
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:07,480
Speaker 1: two sides of the coin when it comes to Genesis.

1155
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:12,640
Speaker 1: In the Book of Genesis, there's this aspect of man like,

1156
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:17,880
Speaker 1: you know, dominate nature. You know, you're in charge, it's

1157
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:20,439
Speaker 1: it's for your use. But then there's an aspect of

1158
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 1: stay of steward and management. And like when I heard

1159
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 1: Dr Woods talk, I don't know what a hundred and

1160
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:33,479
Speaker 1: twenty deer rac looks compared to a one seventy. I mean,

1161
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:35,680
Speaker 1: what's the biggest buck you've ever killed? What would it

1162
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 1: have and what would that be? Right at? Real close

1163
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:44,519
Speaker 1: to one seventy and so most Arkansas deer like what not?

1164
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 1: That not that so, you know, but all it was

1165
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:50,439
Speaker 1: was it's like there it comes down to management to

1166
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:53,680
Speaker 1: get the gains that humans want working within the system, right,

1167
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:58,640
Speaker 1: because he just manages his land and the potential is

1168
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 1: there to get what he wants were him within the system.

1169
01:10:01,439 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 1: That's what I thought was so cool about hearing him talk,

1170
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 1: is he's just staying within the systems. You know, he

1171
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 1: can see the boundaries and I'm gonna stay in here.

1172
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:11,200
Speaker 1: And then then you see this flourishing where the deer

1173
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 1: go from like what you call him shepherd where they're

1174
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:17,679
Speaker 1: the size of German shepherds to monster bucks. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1175
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:20,439
Speaker 1: it's interesting the evaluative tools. There would be a hundred

1176
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 1: different ways to evaluate an ecosystem, but our interest is

1177
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:25,800
Speaker 1: in white tailed deer in a lot of ways. And

1178
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:28,599
Speaker 1: so you know he's he's looking at an ecosystem based

1179
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:31,680
Speaker 1: upon antler growth. Um, Hey, I'm going to close with

1180
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:33,719
Speaker 1: one thing, and then I want to hear Mr Forrest

1181
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:38,320
Speaker 1: Teeter sings the song once you get your get fitted out. Hey,

1182
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 1: when Forrest was gonna come, like, I just said, you

1183
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:43,840
Speaker 1: gotta bring a song like it. So this song, I

1184
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 1: don't even know what it is, I can just trust. Hey,

1185
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:50,280
Speaker 1: here's one funny thing, did I wonder if anybody picked

1186
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:52,920
Speaker 1: this up. Dr Miller's talking, and I guess it's because

1187
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:55,040
Speaker 1: I know Dr Miller that this was funny to me.

1188
01:10:55,439 --> 01:11:02,560
Speaker 1: But he said and then that organic fraction very he

1189
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 1: just like he just like you could just see his

1190
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:07,760
Speaker 1: eyes almost rolled the back of his head, and he said,

1191
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:12,920
Speaker 1: very interesting organic fraction. And I was like, no, it's not,

1192
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 1: Dr Miller, but you told me it was, And I

1193
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 1: believe you twenty years ago when I was so impressionable,

1194
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:21,479
Speaker 1: But yes, it is interesting. Forest. What are you say?

1195
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:24,160
Speaker 1: Oh man, I'm got the old iPad right here. You

1196
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:26,240
Speaker 1: didn't You didn't catch that one? Dr Miller kind of

1197
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, did you? Yeah? I figured that's where he

1198
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 1: lost lost like half year his total voice change. Look

1199
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:42,840
Speaker 1: for you, you need the sunless? Yeah? What are you

1200
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 1: gonna say? Forest? For us? Yeah? This is Anchor's away. No,

1201
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:50,640
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. I don't even know that's that's like

1202
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:53,600
Speaker 1: the Navy song. That's like the Navy anthem. That's like

1203
01:11:53,600 --> 01:12:00,320
Speaker 1: the song of the years, but plays for me but normally, Yeah,

1204
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:03,320
Speaker 1: this song called Paradise. It was written by uh by

1205
01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:05,760
Speaker 1: John Prine, and there's lots of bluegrass versions that are

1206
01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:09,799
Speaker 1: really good. Um, that I really like, but it's relevant

1207
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:15,080
Speaker 1: to what we're talking about it. He mentioned Kentucky in passing,

1208
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 1: which Daniel Boone will throwback, um, but also just uh

1209
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:22,760
Speaker 1: about this guy wanted to go back and see kind

1210
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:25,160
Speaker 1: of the promised land where his parents had grown up,

1211
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:27,880
Speaker 1: and they said it's all gone cold company voted up,

1212
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:31,160
Speaker 1: took it away. True story. Yeah, but they literally just

1213
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 1: removed the mountain. This is very very applicable. Yeah, you know,

1214
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 1: that's why. That's why they pay me, all right, Like

1215
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 1: I said, got the iPad crutch here since I was

1216
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 1: I was a short notice performer here. When I was

1217
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:59,640
Speaker 1: a child, my family and would travel now in the

1218
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:04,560
Speaker 1: west in Kentucky where my parents were born, there's a

1219
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:09,720
Speaker 1: backwards old town. It's all been remember so many times

1220
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 1: that my memories are warm. You know, I'm going, daddy,

1221
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:16,599
Speaker 1: and won't you ting me back to New Lenburg County

1222
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:22,719
Speaker 1: down by the Green River where Para dies late. I'm sorry,

1223
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 1: in my son, but you're too late in asking Mr

1224
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:35,080
Speaker 1: Peabody's cold Trane's Hall dead away. Sometimes we travel right

1225
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:38,320
Speaker 1: down the Green River to the band in old prison

1226
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:43,520
Speaker 1: down by Adrian Hill, where the air smelled like snakes

1227
01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:47,440
Speaker 1: and we shoot with our pistols, but empty pop bottles

1228
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:52,280
Speaker 1: was all we would kill, Daddy. And won't you ting

1229
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:55,360
Speaker 1: me back some mule in Burgh County, down by the

1230
01:13:55,439 --> 01:14:01,080
Speaker 1: Green River where Para dies late. I'm rim my son,

1231
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:05,200
Speaker 1: but you're two lane hasking. Mr Peabody is cold Traine

1232
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:11,679
Speaker 1: and is haul died away. Then the coal company came

1233
01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:15,839
Speaker 1: with the world's largest shovel and the torture the timber

1234
01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:20,599
Speaker 1: and shrimped all the land they dug for their cold

1235
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:24,400
Speaker 1: until the land was forsaken. Then they wrote it all

1236
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:31,360
Speaker 1: down that as the progress and me and Daddy. Won't

1237
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:34,760
Speaker 1: you take me back to mule Linburgh County, down by

1238
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:40,759
Speaker 1: the Green River where paradis lay. Well, I'm sorry, my son,

1239
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:45,400
Speaker 1: but you're two lane asking. Mr Peabody has coal traineau

1240
01:14:45,439 --> 01:14:53,720
Speaker 1: is haul dead away. When I die lit my ashes

1241
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:57,479
Speaker 1: float down the Green River. Let my soul rolling up

1242
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:03,120
Speaker 1: to the Rochester dawn. I'll mean halfway into heaven with

1243
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:12,559
Speaker 1: parent di Sweden, just five miles away from wherever I am. Daddy,

1244
01:15:12,760 --> 01:15:16,439
Speaker 1: won't you take me back to Mulenburg County down by

1245
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:21,479
Speaker 1: the Green River where parent dies late? Well, I'm sorry,

1246
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:26,400
Speaker 1: I'm sun but you're two Lane asking Mr Peabody's Cold Trane,

1247
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:36,479
Speaker 1: It's hauld it away. Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome. Oh that

1248
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:40,800
Speaker 1: was a perfect song. Man, it ended up perfect song.

1249
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 1: Glad excellent. Well, thank all you guys for coming