WEBVTT - Does Your Job Have to Protect You from Trolls? 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:02.920 If you work in a corporate environment, the chances are 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:04.920 pretty good that at some point you've had to take 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:08.360 one of these workplace safety trainings where they teach you 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:10.760 how to avoid getting hit in the head by open 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:14.560 file cabinet drawers, or how not to slip and fall 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:16.840 on a spill. But what they might not teach you 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.280 is what to do if somebody publishes your personal information 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:23.919 online or uses your work phone to make harassing phone calls. 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:39.599 This is game plan. I'm Francesco lead and I'm right 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:43.080 back at Greenfield, and today we are talking about workplace safety, 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:52.320 which usually calls to mind something like this. Now as 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:54.120 so far as we get down to business and talk 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:57.920 about safety, you know, for something strange reason, people seem 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.760 to consider office work as being free of any danger. 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:04.800 What could happen to anyone working behind a nice safe disk? 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:12.440 Uh typewriter, bites girl. Here's an industrious looking fellow with 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:22.040 his mind on his work. Best trapsman. These like retro 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:27.320 workplace safety advisories are kind of like, they don't ring 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:30.840 very realistic to us, and they're an entire genre on YouTube. Yeah, 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:34.560 I've discovered they're also very gendered. Usually it's usually like 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:38.360 the pretty but dumb secretary who you know, spills coffee 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:41.119 on everyone else and usually the thing, the accidents they're 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:45.920 getting themselves into are like outsized for what happened. You know, 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:48.800 It's like I spelled coffee and somebody like slipped and 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:52.080 fell and died. Right, So it all, it all seems 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:54.320 really silly and over the top to us, But there 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:57.200 was a reason that these videos kind of came about. Yeah, 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.920 so the workplace originally, before we all worked in offices, 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.919 are our biggest problem was back injuries and paper huts. 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:08.000 The workplace originally was an unsafe place and it is 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:12.800 still for some workers. I mean about factories, right, mining 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:15.880 those type of workplaces, Like it's it's serious, you know, 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:19.360 people can really get hurt in real ways. Um, but 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.680 now we all work in offices, which people can still 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.840 get hurt and sue their companies and file for disability. 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.800 And so that's why we now have these workplace safety 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:32.760 videos so that companies can basically cover their butts so 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:35.640 they can say, we told you that this might happen, right, 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.920 and then we covered every possibility. We had to watch 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:42.000 one because I know it's like burned into my brain 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.079 that I'm supposed to tell someone if I spilled something. 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:46.480 I spilled something a whole bowl of cereal, and I 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:49.760 did tell someone exactly, so it works. It works. Yeah, 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:52.760 I was totally indoctrinated. There's a funny Wall Street Journal 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:56.200 article that I came across from We're like making fun 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.440 of over the top safety measures um and it talks 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:02.600 about all the ways that companies and their employees take 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.600 these things really seriously. So at the headquarters of Chevron, 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:09.680 everybody gets a small white card that says stop work, 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:12.400 and if you see something dangerous, you're supposed to like 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.400 whip out the card and tell people to stop working. 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:18.919 I have never seen anything dangerous enough workplace environment that 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.359 I would that I would whip out a card of 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:23.919 any kind to stop it. If you saw a power 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.120 cord on the ground and you're like, no, guys, stop work. 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.040 But okay, I know we're making fun of us. But 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:35.400 safety is an important topic. Some statistics say that injuries 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:37.440 are down and have been down in the workplace for 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:40.680 the last thirteen years minus one year, and that I 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:44.040 think that might partly be because workplaces are just in 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:48.320 general work is safer. I'm not sure, or or companies 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:50.800 are putting in place, you know, more of these safeguards 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:54.040 because they're that scared of getting sued. And now that 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:57.280 we all kind of work in this more connected environment, 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:01.200 there are more ways to be safe at work, and 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:06.280 those ways aren't necessarily addressed in these helpful videos and trainings. Yeah. 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.240 I think a lot of us work online or our 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:14.080 lives are online, and there's this confusing blending between what's 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:18.640 work and what is your private life, and that can 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:22.160 lead you into situations where you might be having some 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.719 sort of conflict or being harassed online and it's like 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:27.680 am I at work? Am I not at work? Right? 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.200 And people can find out more about you if they 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:33.360 don't like something you're doing in your role at your job. 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:37.159 It's easier for people to learn more about you based 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:40.120 on your kind of online profile. And the interesting thing 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:44.760 is that it's not yet really clear when these situations arise, 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.800 what your company should or can do about it, if anything. 0:04:57.200 --> 0:04:59.479 Our guest today is going to talk about her experience 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.160 as a journalist writing a story that got her harassed 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:05.640 online and what that did to her as a professional. 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:11.000 And before we get to the interview, a warning to 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:15.440 our listeners that the topics we cover are sensitive and intense. 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:24.960 Lauren Duca is a contributing editor for teen Vogue, where 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:28.600 she writes about politics and culture. Lauren, can you start 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:30.400 by telling us about some of the work you've done 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.480 lately and how it's put you in the public eye. Sure? 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:37.320 So it has been sort of a crazy month because 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:40.680 there were kind of a couple of things that forced 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:46.800 me into bad inbox climate. Uh So, And early in 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:50.280 December or like the tent, I published a piece that 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:54.680 went viral called Donald Trump is gas lighting America, and 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:59.640 that sort of received its own set of controlling and support. 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.719 And then two about two weeks later, it was the 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.760 twenty three I was on Tucker Carlson's show on Fox 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:09.400 to talk about actually something separate, but that came up, 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:13.800 and then um Martin Scarley got involved with trolling me 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:19.120 as well, and he was suspended from Twitter. So that 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:21.680 was sort of the third thing. And I don't really 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:25.080 remember what like normal life is like. It's been a 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:28.920 sort of exchange time, and it's been interesting as well, 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:36.040 because each thing brought its own specific version of response 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.640 in general, but like the harassment and the tone of 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:43.159 the harassment was specific to each event, so I almost 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:45.360 feel like I could write like a taxonomy of trolling 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:49.719 at this point, like different subgenres ftrolls. It's interesting to 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:52.279 hear you say you don't know what normal like life 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.440 is like anymore, because now that you're not in the 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.279 immediate aftermath of any one of those things, what is 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:00.520 your professional life like now? Like what happens when you 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.839 open your inbox in the morning and you start your day. 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:08.840 So it is really bad. Still, I can't believe these 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:10.760 people still have so much time on their hands, because 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:12.800 I would have thought it would have died down. And 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.080 also just anything I put out into the world is 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:21.760 now gardners, so such an intense response and so much 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:24.680 bigger response, and that could just mean tweeting. But then 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.920 at the same time there's people creating email addresses like 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:33.440 Nazi pussy grabber and just bombarding me with messages about 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.640 how I'm going to be. I guess like a sex 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:40.320 toy in camp Trump, which is I don't know, a 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:45.960 fictitious concentration camp um. So it's it's very it's a lot. 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.800 It's a lot, and I don't actually know if I 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.200 know how it's affecting me yet because I haven't really 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:57.040 had any time to step fully back away from it, 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.920 but I definitely feel like my chest has not really 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:06.480 been released from this type feeling since early December. You 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:10.320 mentioned the different flavors of trolling, and I just wanted 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:12.679 to know if you could give us an idea of 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.080 the type of stuff you're getting and the volume twitch 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.520 you're getting, and how it interacts with your work life. 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.440 On Christmas Day, I was getting like death, rape, and 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:25.280 doxing threats and but even to more some of the 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:30.400 subdued ones. I responded, and I said, not to a lot, 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:32.720 just to a couple, but does it bring you joy 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:35.360 to send a message like this to a stranger on 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:40.960 Christmas Day? Just thinking that seeing that would have some 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.679 kind of wake up call moment for these people? And 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:47.400 their response was get raped. Um, I don't know what 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.319 words were allowed to say, but runs with bunt and yeah. 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:54.160 So this is not people just having a bad day 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:56.920 and feeling angry and like being able to humanize me. 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.720 It's it's like this concerted effort and like these, like 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:01.760 a these a lot of emails that I think are 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.400 all from the same person because they're all like a 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:07.360 lot of the Nazi camp Trump stuff follows a similar 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:10.480 format where it might just be one guy sitting and 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:13.920 like doing a generator to create these emails. And then 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:16.400 because they have the same tone and the syntax is 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:18.160 really similar, so I almost think a lot of it 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.360 it could just be a couple of people, but that 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:24.560 doesn't necessarily change the way it feels. And the thing 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.040 that's really hard is that I opened my computer and 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:30.640 I can't not see it. So it's like I can 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:33.960 do my best to ignore it, and I've gotten better 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:37.880 at that. It was strange at first because or I 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:42.320 a lot. I didn't know how it was making me 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.120 feel at first because I was kind of performing a 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:47.880 reverence and making fun of it and you know, be 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.080 like you're a whole and it would be like why 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:52.240 you are to be like you know, it's it's it's 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.600 it's you are, like it's not that's not a correct grammar, 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:58.280 and it's like that's still some of it. It's like 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:00.200 I can write it off as lunatics and and I 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:01.560 can make fun of it, and some of it is 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:04.600 just like crazy. And then so sort of unleashing it 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:07.760 to my followers, who are mostly people who are following 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:10.000 me because they like my writing or support the work 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.880 I'm doing. Then having that kind of influx of we 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:15.640 have your back, don't you know, here's a picture of 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:19.200 my dog. Here's like that kindness come through has helped, 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:23.360 but it also was hard to be acting through it 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.520 and acting tougher than it when and kind of admitting 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:30.760 to myself that it's okay for it to hurt your feelings, 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:33.240 to have people say I mean things to you. That's allowed, 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:35.960 and like, I don't have to be tougher than that 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:41.559 because I'm a human being. And um, yeah, so I 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:45.319 I think now that it is more of an it's dulled, 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:49.600 but it's still takes an impact, and it takes part 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:53.080 of my time and energy every day, and that feels 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:57.880 incredibly unfair. And it's a hindrance on my you know, 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:02.040 distracting me, it's making me less product TV and it's 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:05.000 just like a limitation on what I could be achieving 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:08.440 in each individual day. And that adds up. Are you 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.800 concerned for your safety at all through any of these messages? 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:15.960 There are a few that were concerning I don't know 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.440 how specifically should talk about that because I just don't 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:21.160 want to give anyone ideas. But the thing is that 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.679 it's like it only takes one. Like, I've had people 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.880 reach out to me who have been docks or hacked 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.960 or and had to move or should we just clarify 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.600 what docksing is for anyone who doesn't. Sure, Yeah, that's 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:35.760 just when they put your information up to make you 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:39.160 feel super unsafe, or for people to send you who 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.800 your home address and your identifying information. People have sent 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.400 me crazy tips for things that just make me feel 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:50.280 even more out of control because it's the tips are 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.880 things that are just like, oh my gosh. If people 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:56.280 can get a burner phone to do two step verification, 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:01.360 and because they can impersonate you and go into your 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:05.160 cell phone carrier store and get a new SIM card 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:09.400 and then be able to hijack your phone and then 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:13.640 hackened everything through there, It's just oh, like what that's 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.040 that's so that was not even I felt like, thank you, 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:18.280 this is helpful, but in my had I'm just like, Jesus, 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.800 this is so crazy. That was unsolicited advice. Yeah, yeah, 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:26.600 from somebody like experienced. Yeah, and he's like, if you 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.280 see no service in the top of your phone, that 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:34.680 means they got it. I'm just like great, Yeah. Everyway, 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:38.160 every time we ran the subway, yeah, who knows the 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:40.480 thing is. It's just like they all could be something, 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.040 but they're all probably nothing. But it only takes one, 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:45.480 so it's a it's all just like honestly it's a 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.840 form of terrorism because they're aware of that and they 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:53.640 know that their threat is it carries a weight of possibility. 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:55.640 I mean, I had a female journalists reach out to 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.719 me and say it only took one doxing threat for 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:02.079 to get docked. So it's sort of just like I'm 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:05.400 bracing for impact. And I mean I've done some preventative things, 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.839 like my husband I got LifeLock, which is, um it's 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:12.600 a service that it has an insurance policy and alerts 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:16.040 you if your information is being used in any way online. 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:18.760 Like even that annoys me, Like it's like, really we 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:21.520 had to spend seven hundred dollars to get this, just 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.760 you know, because but I mean it's sort of like 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:28.160 what can you do for workplace? Done any or that. 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.200 I know you're a freelancer, but have the places that 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.600 you work for done anything, um put any resources behind it, 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:38.640 giving you any anything? No, you know, they've been compassionate 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.600 about it, and uh, I don't know that there's so 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.040 much that they can do. And I know even when 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:45.960 I was at hof Post, when dealing with this a 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:48.559 little bit, there's just like it's like, we're sorry, and 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:55.360 it's so it's incredibly unfair that they're sort of just 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:59.160 this shrug of like that's the world, isn't it, Because 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:02.560 that's the world, isn't it? For women? Specifically? I think 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:06.199 that that thing that's what's so incredibly troubling about it 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.319 is that it's on me as a freelancer. It's this 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:10.120 theft of time and energy and then within in a 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:14.240 workplace where it's just like another stepback that women have 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:18.880 to take on, and as a freelancer, it's it's it 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.040 adds to that sense of and I would imagine that 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.520 sort of sense of insecurity you already have as a freelancer, 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:26.840 which is kind of like the burden is on you 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.840 to handle any kind of financial hardship that comes up 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.000 or in position on your time. And you were saying, 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:34.560 you know, this is both something that takes your time 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:36.680 and money to kind of protect yourself from, but it 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.480 and it rightfully distracts you from from doing your job, 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:42.480 which is coming in and writing stories, Like have you 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:44.600 communicated that to the outlets that you work with. Have 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.320 you ever had to say, you know, I needed any 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.320 extra time to work on the story, or I need 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.560 or whatever you've needed, Like have you expressed needs to 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:53.440 them and have they been understanding or have they reached 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.000 out to you know, but that I haven't. I have 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.880 a very strong, never missed an lend policy and I 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.560 just try and take care of everything myself. Um. I 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.920 mean that might depending on how it is or how 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:11.280 it devolved, that might that would be something I would consider, um, 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.320 But it's talking specifically to place some pitching. But the 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.080 other thing too, is like in terms of if my 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.760 Twitter account or my Gmail were to get hacked, that 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:22.640 would be so sort of like if I was in 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.040 an office setting and I was a staffer somewhere and 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.080 then that happened, they would deal with my email and 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:29.880 work that out for me and be able to re 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:33.240 establish everything, or they might at least at least on 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:38.120 email gets hacked, right, that would be something your employer 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:42.080 would deal certainly. But it's sort of like now, especially 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:44.400 like all of my networking, all of my connections, all 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.040 my contacts are built out for those I mean and 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.400 now I've taken there would be ways around it, and 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.560 I could find you know, presumably the editors I work 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:56.400 with wouldn't just be like, Wow, she's gone, but it 0:15:56.480 --> 0:16:00.200 still would be that would be a huge robber of 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.800 resources in a way that it wouldn't maybe affect somebody 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:06.600 who was on staff full time. So I'm definitely more 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:10.240 vulnerable in terms of what can be taken from me. Um. 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.440 You mentioned this article you wrote Routine Vogue about your 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:15.480 Twitter harassment, and one thing in the piece you talk 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:17.680 about is that you're not going to just opt out. 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.880 I know that that is something that people can do. 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:25.000 I I've also experienced some of this online harassment and 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:27.840 it has pushed me away from wanting to be on 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:32.040 these platforms because it's distracting from my work. UM, why 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:36.080 have you decided to not opt out? I feel very 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.560 strongly that the goal of the harassment is to silence me, 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:44.960 so I have an sense of obligation of not proving 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.440 that I have not been silenced. Uh, And I maybe 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.200 that's stupid and stubborn because it is getting in the 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:54.560 way of my work. So like, practically speaking, I could 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.720 probably tone it down on Twitter and that wouldn't like 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:02.840 affect my finances directly. But also I've gotten most of 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.159 my work this year through connections that started on Twitter. 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.679 And you know, I got hooked up with teen Vogue. 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.359 The aditorial director reached out to me. He liked he 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:14.719 knew about my writing and liked my presence because of 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:18.040 my Twitter account and now working for teen Vogue and 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.040 this art, like this has totally changed my career and 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:22.359 it was all started with a connection formed on Twitter. 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.480 I think that we think like Twitter is some silly, 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:29.400 stupid waste of time, but it's it's been incremental for me, 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:32.199 especially this year going freelance, which is hard, and you 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:34.800 have to form a lot of different connections and maintain 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:38.640 them and have this little garden of like in many ways, 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:42.320 Twitter is your workplace. It's it's a virtual location where 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.600 you do your work, and and so being attacked on 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:48.480 that platform is like, you know, directly taking it like 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:52.720 the place that you work. Yes, so I don't think 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:58.399 that that would necessarily be helpful because it would feel 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.520 like a failure to people who are watching me get 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:03.960 harassed and who are arrested. And I part of the 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:06.120 reason why I was sharing some of it. I don't 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:07.440 want to I think I need to I'm going to 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:09.800 take a break from engaging with it and even like 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:13.560 making fun of it, because I you know, I think 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.520 I've done as much of that it's gonna be productive. 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:19.600 But my goal with that was just sort of revealed 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:23.639 how it's happening and what it looks like, and because 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:27.639 I'm I'm scared that there are young women who are 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.600 starting writing and think that they're writing is so bad 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:35.560 or so annoying or so horrifyingly awful to these people 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.600 bombarding them, that they that they're being that they'll be 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.680 shut up. Um And I so I'm refusing to be 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:45.640 shut up because I want to weather this and work 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:49.840 towards a world where it's just not common to get 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:51.919 like a photoshop version of you in a gas chamber. 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:53.639 I don't know, Like, is that so much to have? 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:58.320 I hope. Well, thank you so much for coming and 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:00.000 talking to us. I know this is a really hard 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.160 our topic to talk about, and it's unfortunate that part 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:07.000 of your work life has to be this way and 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:09.159 that we have to think about safety in a completely 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:11.640 different way now. UM, So we really appreciate it. It's 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:21.840 really great to hear from you. Well, that was a 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:25.400 really eye opening interview. Yeah. I think when people hear 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:28.880 stories of online trolling, they dismiss it a little bit, 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:31.159 like they think it's like, oh, that's all talk or 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:35.800 have a thicker skin. But hearing Lauren speak, you can 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.920 tell it's really close to becoming not virtual. Yeah, And 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:40.960 you never really know where the line is between a 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:44.000 real threat and a an imagined one. And she kept 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:46.399 saying like it only takes one. And I know that 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:50.639 Megan Kelly, the former Fox News reporter, was being attacked 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:53.320 by tolls because of Donald Trump in a very similar way, 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:55.639 in an intense way, and that some of the threats 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:59.080 led her to seek having bodyguards for her and her family. 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:01.680 You know, she thought the threat was real enough, right, 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:05.399 And in situations like those, it's still really unclear, like 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:09.760 what the obligation is of your employer, either their legal 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.679 obligation or their ethical obligation to help you out, to 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.280 help you manage this stuff, And what do they even do? YEA, 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:19.440 what can they do? And it's not just media people 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:21.200 that this can happen to me. We've been talking about 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:24.480 examples of people who are in very public facing jobs, 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.639 but anybody could say something in or out of the 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:31.080 context of their work that could lead to them being 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.199 targeted online. Yeah, there are a lot of jobs that 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:37.320 people see as political. I've talked to the Anti Defamation League, 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:40.080 for example, for stories that I've worked on and that's 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:43.160 not media, and the people who work there certainly get 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:45.840 a lot of online harassment. And then if you think 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:48.440 back to one of the tragic shootings of the last 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:50.760 couple of years, it was at a planned parenthood clinic, 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:53.760 and those people aren't public, but they're doing a type 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:57.080 of work that people are ideologically opposed to. I think 0:20:57.080 --> 0:20:58.919 as time goes on, companies are really going to have 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:01.720 to reckon with this more more and come up with 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:05.199 ways of dealing with it that will feel just as 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:10.520 obvious as the silly retro workplace safety video. And I 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:13.680 don't really know how we transition from all of that 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:18.920 serious stuff to have bake takes, but we're gonna try 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:24.240 happy fake takes. Becca, what is your overly strong opinion 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:27.960 about something that doesn't matter? My half bake take is 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:30.359 titled you need to ask permission if you're going to 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:33.320 eat during meetings. Goodness, it's kind of a bad headline, 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:37.080 but often I will be so busy during the day, 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:38.760 and then I'll have a meeting at like one, and 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:41.879 I'll want to eat my lunch in that meeting, and 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:45.239 I need to do it. I cannot do it. But 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:48.040 I think it's rude to just straight up eat during 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:50.240 a meeting. I think you need to say, like, isaid 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:52.520 okay that I'm making this on my lunch meeting. Yeah, 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:55.160 you should acknowledge that you're doing something that's kind of rude. 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:57.640 I guess some people's half baked take would be don't 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:01.040 do that, And my half baked take is absolutely feeds yourself. 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:03.960 But there's some like once I had an orange during 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:07.200 a meeting with you, and I felt weird. Yeah, that 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:08.920 was a really weird day. It was a weird thing 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:10.400 to eat, and I mean, I'll never forget that time 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:12.639 you're eating it. But I asked so that that's my 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:16.640 half pick take. What is your not quite really a story, 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:19.359 but still something you want to share with us today? Okay, 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:22.080 I want to talk about the ulterior motive that people 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:25.399 have for using standing disks. So standing desks get a 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:29.159 lot of attention for being a fat or for causing 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:32.560 standing disk envy or whatever, um, but everybody says the 0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:35.520 reason to use a standing desk is because it's healthier, 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:37.400 because if you if you sit for too long, you'll 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:40.040