1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Murder in Oregon is the production of iHeartRadio previously on 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: Murder and Oregon. 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 2: As a columnist for The Oregonian and the Portland Tribune, 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 2: Phil wrote more than one hundred columns about Michael Frankie's murder. 5 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 3: He was a public official who discovered corruption in his 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 3: own department. The night before he was to address the 7 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 3: legislative committee on this very subject, he was stabbed in 8 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 3: the heart in front of the building where he worked. 9 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 4: I think he made a number of people. 10 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 2: In the department uncomfortable, probably the head of Dick Peterson. 11 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 3: Scott McAllister, who was the ag lawyer who had for 12 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 3: the previous twelve to thirteen years been assigned to Corrections. 13 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 3: That's the third member of the Department of Corrections officers 14 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 3: on the ALPS with frank You. 15 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: After Phil wrote an article alleging the corruption Krause had 16 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 2: intimated to Pat and confesses as much in greater detail 17 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 2: to the investigators, Kraus recants his confession and is dropped 18 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: as a suspect out of nowhere. They didn't like the 19 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 2: people his confession would ultimately lead to. 20 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 5: That's what it looks like for sure. 21 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 3: A week after the murder, the police held a press 22 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 3: conference and announced they were interested in talking with a 23 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 3: man who had been seen in the Dome building. He 24 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 3: quickly became known as the man in the pinstripe suit. 25 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 3: Conrad goes to see it. Six months after Michael Frankie's murdered. 26 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 3: He goes to his counselor in prison and tells the 27 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 3: counselor that he knows something about the murder. 28 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 5: Says he was. 29 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 3: Approached by Tim Natividad to do the murder, and he 30 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 3: knows that Scott McAllister, the prison lawyer, arranged it. 31 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 4: Tim always carried a knife. Tim had a huge knife collection. 32 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 4: Tim was violent. Tim told me he killed somebody, and 33 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 4: I think it's Michael. Look at this composite drawing. They 34 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 4: laughed and said, you can't convict a dead man. There's 35 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 4: nothing we can do here. 36 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,679 Speaker 2: By August of nineteen eighty nine, Johnny Krause, the man 37 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,839 Speaker 2: who confessed to the murder of Michael Frankie then recanted, 38 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: had been dropped as a suspect in the investigation. That's 39 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: when an internal memo landed on the desk of then 40 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 2: Governor Neil Goldschmidt that would raise some serious concerns about 41 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 2: the investigation into Michael Frankie's murder. 42 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 3: This was something we didn't find out till some years later. 43 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 3: Actually we didn't know about it at the time. But 44 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 3: as the heat was building up on the Frankie case 45 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 3: because they had dropped Krauss and they had nothing else 46 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 3: in sight, or so we thought, Governor Neil Goldschmidt's legal 47 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 3: aid wrote him a long memo on how to handle 48 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 3: all this pressure that was building up. It was a 49 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 3: political problem for them, and it is very revealing. 50 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: We've obtained a copy of that memo, and in light 51 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 2: of what we now know, there are sections that are 52 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 2: at best concerning. Here are some excerpts. 53 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 3: Nothing in Michael Frankie's files or elsewhere, the memo says, 54 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 3: indicate he was working on anything other than his pressing 55 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 3: budget problems. And Mike's family made no mention of the 56 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 3: much reported phone call about organized criminal activity when they 57 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 3: had their initial interviews with the police. 58 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: But we know that's not true. 59 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 5: Yes. 60 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 3: Yes, we also would later find out from officer's notes that, 61 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 3: in fact, the day Kevin got out here to Oregon 62 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 3: after his brother's death, he told the police about. 63 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 2: This, and then he called again from Santa fe from 64 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: Mike's funeral to reiterate. 65 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 3: That the memoir goes on the Frankie family's activities and 66 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 3: the presence of Phil Stanford ensure that the issue will 67 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 3: continue to receive attention by the press and public until 68 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 3: some decisive step is taken to resolve it. 69 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 2: So they just wanted to go away. 70 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 6: Oh they do. 71 00:03:53,720 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: Indeed, I'm Lauren brit Pacheco, and this is murdering Oregon. 72 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 2: Another key takeaway from that memo to gold Schmidt was 73 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 2: the idea that an FBI investigation wasn't exactly welcomed by 74 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 2: the Oregon state government. 75 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 3: I know from my own interviews at the time the 76 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 3: FBI was interested in getting into this. They didn't make 77 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 3: it public, but certainly Goldsmith and his people knew it, 78 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 3: and they did not want the FBI to investigate corruption 79 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 3: down there was. 80 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 2: Their resistance to the FBI stepping into the investigation. 81 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 3: It's in the memoi how to get rid of this problem. 82 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,799 Speaker 3: It is also possible that you could get federal assistance, 83 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 3: but I believe it is crucial not to turn this 84 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 3: into an FBI investigation. If you want any assurance that 85 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 3: it will stay within the bounds you have. 86 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 2: Set if you want any assurance that it will stay 87 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: within the bounds you have set. What does that mean? 88 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 3: Well, it meant something to the person who was writing 89 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 3: the memo, and it meant something to Goldschmidt. But even 90 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 3: when we finally got this memo, when it finally became public, 91 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 3: it wasn't clear what were the bounds that Goldschmidt had set. 92 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 3: What were his reasons for not winning an investigation, That's 93 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 3: the question. 94 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 2: It sounds like he wanted something contained. 95 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 5: Oh yes. 96 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: And then eight months later, in April of nineteen ninety, 97 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: seemingly out of nowhere, a small time drug dealer from 98 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 2: Salem named Frank Gable is arrested and charged with the 99 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 2: murder of Michael Frankie. 100 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 7: Frank Gable has found himself a key figure in the 101 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 7: Michael Frankie murder investigation. He says he didn't do it. 102 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 7: He is currently serving a year sentence in the Coups 103 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 7: County Jail for assaulting his wife, but others say he's 104 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 7: done much worse than beat his wife. Mike Kieran's, a 105 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,239 Speaker 7: convict from the Idaho State Penitentiary, claims Frank Gable told 106 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 7: him he killed Frankie during a carburglarate. 107 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 2: Remember, at this point, Johnny Krause had already confessed knowledge 108 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 2: of the murder, recanted his confession, and was granted immunity 109 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 2: to not recant his recantation. Liz Godlove also had gone 110 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 2: to the police with her belief teen Natividad was the 111 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 2: man in the pinstriped suit and could have killed Frankie, 112 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 2: only to have them laugh and say they couldn't convict 113 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 2: a dead man. Frank Gable's name came out of nowhere, 114 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 2: even to the three journalists most heavily involved in the case, 115 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 2: Phil Stamford, TV reporter Eric Mason, and Steve Jackson at 116 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 2: The Statesman Journal. 117 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 8: Here's Jackson, Gable wasn't on my radar at all at 118 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 8: that time. By this time, I was already having difficulties 119 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 8: with the way the investigation was handled. 120 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 2: And Jackson found the arrest of Gable oddly convenient for 121 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: the police. 122 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 8: The only one that was really pursued was the easy 123 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 8: one for the police to settle on, some guy who 124 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 8: had basically no support, no money, no friends, people willing 125 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 8: to turn on him. He was sort of an outsider 126 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 8: even in that meth group. 127 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:26,679 Speaker 2: He was an easy target. 128 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 6: Yeah, he was an. 129 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 8: Easy target with not many resources to call on to 130 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 8: protect himself. 131 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 2: Here's Phil's take. 132 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 3: Well, at the time, no one knew what to think. 133 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 3: I mean, Gable was completely new name out there, and 134 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 3: all of a sudden, the state police are promoting him 135 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 3: as their prime suspect. Even now, it's something of a 136 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 3: mystery how they picked him. And it appears that it 137 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 3: all happened in about May of eighty nine, just as 138 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 3: Kraus was peering as a suspect. This is when Kross 139 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 3: started talking about possible connections to corrections officials. 140 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 2: Gable was also clearly confused as to what was happening 141 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 2: to him and struggle to articulate what his accusers could 142 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 2: possibly gain by putting the murder on him. Here he 143 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 2: is at an interview at the time of his arrest. 144 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 9: I believe it's because a lot of the people, like 145 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 9: Kerns and several other inmates are jumping on the bandwagon, thinking, well, 146 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 9: we can get our charges dropped, you know, point the 147 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 9: finger at Gable. 148 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 3: We'll get there and get our charges drop. 149 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 5: So my name keeps coming up. 150 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 2: The Mike Kierns Gable spoke of in that interview was 151 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 2: another of Salem's usual suspects who happened to be at 152 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 2: the Marion County Lockup when police arrested Gable. He was 153 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 2: the first in a rogue's gallery of criminals used to 154 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 2: try and tie Gable to the killing. 155 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 3: Karns was the first one to go public and say 156 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 3: that Gable had confessed to him. He would later go 157 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 3: public and say he made it all up with Of 158 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 3: course he did. That's how it got started. And then 159 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 3: the state police started finding other so called witnesses who 160 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 3: would say that Gable confessed to them. 161 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 2: But according to Gable, he had a solid alibi, and 162 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 2: one that didn't exactly paint him as a saint. He 163 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 2: claimed to be busily committing an entirely different crime at 164 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 2: the time of Mike's murder. 165 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 10: I was at a friend of mine's house named Chris 166 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 10: Arillos with him and two other girls. I didn't leave 167 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 10: my home, I believe, until at least eight o'clock that night, 168 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 10: and I went from there to a friend of mine's 169 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 10: house and delivered some drugs and then went to Chris's 170 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 10: house and spent the rest of that evening there and 171 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 10: came home about five that morning. 172 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 2: So fifty two days away from finishing a sentence for 173 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 2: an unrelated domestic abuse charge. Frank Gable now feared he 174 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 2: was going to be charged with Michael f Ranky's murder. 175 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 5: I've been so scared, you know. 176 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 9: Each day you don't know if you're getting out in 177 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 9: fifty two days or if you're going to get put 178 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 9: to death. 179 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 5: Penalty for crime you didn't command, you know. 180 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 10: So yeah, I'm scared, more scared than I've ever been 181 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 10: in my life. 182 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 6: You know. 183 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 11: I believe that I walked into a. 184 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 10: Complicated drug ring and really don't know how complicated it 185 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:22,479 Speaker 10: was until now. 186 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 2: And it would get even more complicated and even more perplexing. 187 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 2: There was never any physical evidence linking Gable to the murder. 188 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 2: His cellmate's false accusation, along with the testimony from characters 189 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 2: entwined in Salem's Underworld, were the only quote unquote evidence 190 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 2: the police had to go on. Who were the people 191 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 2: who came forward as the state's witnesses. 192 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 5: Well, they did not come forward. 193 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 3: The police selected them and helped them manufacture the stories 194 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 3: they wanted using light detector tests. That's one of the 195 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 3: more remarkable things about this case and the way light 196 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 3: detector tests were used to shape testimony. The two star 197 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 3: witnesses for the state from the beginning were Jody schwer 198 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 3: Engine and Shorty Hardened. Jody was a seventeen year old 199 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 3: runaway who'd been in and out of Hillcrest, the girls' school, 200 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,319 Speaker 3: certainly part of the wheaker scene there. 201 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 2: Shorty Harden's names come up before. He was friends with 202 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 2: Tim Natividad. They ran in the same drug dealing circle. 203 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, they did business together. 204 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 2: Shorty and Jody would become the state star witnesses linking 205 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 2: Gable to the murder. 206 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 3: After twenty three polygraphs. It took them that long to 207 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 3: get Jody to tell the story they wanted. Jody's story 208 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 3: was that Gable had who by the way, she hadn't 209 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 3: met until about six months later, had driven her to 210 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 3: the Dome Building that night, and while she was at 211 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 3: the Dome building she called Shorty to come pick her up. 212 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 3: They didn't have cell phones in those days, so she 213 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 3: had to walk at a distance to a payphone, which 214 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 3: the police were, by the way, were never able to 215 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 3: find or identify. And the story is that just before 216 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 3: the murder occurred, Shorty drove up in his Mustang parked there. 217 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 3: Jody got into his car, Shorty said he saw Frankie 218 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 3: coming out of the Dome Building yelling at Gable, who 219 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 3: was in the car at the time. 220 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 5: He got to the car. 221 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 3: Gable lunged out of the car and stabbed Frankie. Shorty said, 222 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 3: he started his car and Jody drove off into the night. 223 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 2: The state didn't seem to mind that the version Jody 224 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 2: and Shorty settled upon contradicted the account of the only 225 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 2: eyewitness on record, Wayne Hunsaker, the maintenance man who had 226 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 2: seen two men interacting the night Frankie was murdered. 227 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 3: They put all these made up witnesses in front of 228 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 3: the grand jury, including Jody and Shorty, of course, and 229 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 3: in fact, they even allowed Jody and Shorty to meet 230 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 3: privately in a room before the grand jury so they 231 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 3: could get their stories straight. And they did, and they 232 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 3: testified that they had been there at the Dome Building 233 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 3: on the night of the murder and seen the. 234 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 2: Murder testimony that had been coerced. 235 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 3: They threatened her she finally came up with the story 236 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 3: that she was present when he stabbed Michael Frankie. Shorty 237 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 3: was a local tough guy. He'd done business with Tim Natividad. 238 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 3: He was deeply entrenched in the salement underworld, made multiple 239 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 3: deals with the cops along the ways, and they got 240 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 3: him to testify against Gable two. 241 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 2: And Kevin says, great effort went into bringing Shorty harden 242 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 2: Inn and getting him on board. 243 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 6: There was a very very big police presence in running 244 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 6: Shorty band for a pro violation. They had City of 245 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 6: Salem cops, They had at least helicopter, and they tracked him. 246 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 6: They had state police sunning him down, and he was 247 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 6: doing his best to get away, and I think he 248 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,959 Speaker 6: went over a large like a ten foot fence or 249 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 6: something like that and tour attendant in his hand or 250 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,599 Speaker 6: some nonsense. Anyway, they eventually caught him, took him to 251 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 6: Salem hospitality, had surgery, and as he was coming out 252 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 6: of surgery, he said he was a States next million 253 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 6: dollar baby. HOLLI had to do was hanging rap on 254 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 6: a murder rap on Frank Gable. 255 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 2: It became a pattern. Here's Tom McCallum, the lead investigator 256 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 2: for Gables defense. 257 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 12: I mean Shorty and Jody, you know, was their lineup 258 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 12: of all the people that they did all the polygraphs 259 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 12: on and sort of developed their testimony. 260 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 5: They're all druggies and I knew that everything was. It 261 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 5: was pretty crazy. 262 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 2: Here's Phil's take. 263 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 3: But several months later, Jodie spoke with Tom McCallum, who 264 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 3: is the lead investigator for the defense, and confessed that 265 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 3: she made up the story. She wasn't there. 266 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 5: Well, it wasn't what happened. 267 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 3: She also talked to Steve Jackson at the sale and 268 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 3: paper and then she took off. The state police went 269 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 3: after her and arrested her and brought her back and 270 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 3: put her in jail. 271 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 2: So she tried to flee town so she wouldn't have 272 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 2: to testify. Well she did, yes, Jody and Shorty warrant 273 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 2: alone and feeling pressured by the state police. 274 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 3: I was at my desk the Oregonian got a call 275 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 3: from a prison guard in Clark County Jail, which is 276 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 3: just right across the river in Vancouver, Washington, and he said, 277 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 3: you won't believe this, but I've got a guy over 278 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 3: here who says the state police are pressuring him to make. 279 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 5: Up a story about Gable. 280 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 3: You want to come over and talk to him? I said, 281 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 3: oh yeah, So I went over there and there's this 282 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 3: guy Gessner. He's in his twenties and says, they want 283 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 3: me to say that Gable confessed to the murder. He didn't. 284 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 3: Then he went on to say he'd already been convicted 285 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 3: on drug charges and they were really pressuring him. This 286 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 3: US attorney had charged him with violation federal gun laws, 287 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 3: which would add another decade or so to his sentence, 288 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 3: and so he says, Guessner says, to me, what am 289 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 3: I supposed to do? What's a guy supposed to do? 290 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 2: All of which could explain Gable's shock and confusion at 291 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 2: being targeted. Local television reporter Eric Mason was one of 292 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 2: the reporters who spoke to Gable following his arrest. Do 293 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 2: you remember how you found out that Frank Gable was arrested. 294 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 13: I think it was a press conference that Dale Penn had. 295 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 13: In My thinking was, wow, there's so many other folks 296 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 13: that are probably ith That's the last person I want 297 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 13: to you know, it didn't make sense the idea that 298 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 13: he was the lone assailant of Michael Frankie just there 299 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 13: was more too than that. Obviously, there was more two 300 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 13: than that. He just looked like a kid that would 301 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 13: never get close to Mike Frankie. After being up close 302 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 13: to Mike Frankie and seeing him play basketball and meeting 303 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 13: him on the steps of the Capital to do an 304 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 13: interview with him, and it seemed like a mismatch. Frank 305 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 13: Gable was thin and spindley and looked like someone who 306 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 13: had been on meth and just didn't look physically strong 307 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 13: enough to take on a guy like Mike Frankie. It 308 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 13: just didn't make sense. 309 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 2: When Mason sat down with Gable after his arrest, he 310 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 2: just didn't get the feeling that this was a murderer. 311 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 2: And he'd interviewed a number of them. 312 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 13: Was at Oregon State Penitentiary, and I believe my first 313 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 13: few interviews are on the phone with Frank Gable and 314 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 13: the little bell goes off in my head that says, 315 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 13: this person is telling me the truth. He just was 316 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 13: the wrong guy. It didn't look like a guy that 317 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,199 Speaker 13: I was interviewing that was responsible for the crime. His 318 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 13: body language didn't reveal it, his eyes didn't reveal it, 319 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 13: his presence didn't reveal it. You have the feeling that 320 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 13: he was a guy who was involved in math and 321 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 13: involved in small time crime and certainly had a problem 322 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 13: with his wife, But a guy that was not a 323 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 13: person who was a natural born killer at all. 324 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Kevin Frankie is back at his home in Florida, 325 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 2: battling the issues of trying to keep interest going in 326 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 2: his brother's murder from long distance. 327 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 11: So it was just constantly poking the bear, trying to 328 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 11: keep the thing going and keep it in the face 329 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 11: of the public, in the ears and eyes of the public, 330 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 11: doing video shoots from a station then in Florida, where 331 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 11: I'd get in front of the blue screen and do 332 00:18:55,520 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 11: the remote shots and things like that. So everybody was 333 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 11: getting to know me and getting to know Pat. 334 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 2: And the visibility of the Frankie brothers in the media 335 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 2: led to a nickname with certain members of the press. 336 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 11: I don't know who coined the term, the Cranky Brothers, 337 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 11: but we became the Cranky Brothers to the press, and 338 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 11: I liked it. Goldschmidt Penn in that group didn't get it. Yeah, 339 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 11: we were cranky, We're pissed off. 340 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,959 Speaker 2: Well, that nickname didn't bother them. The anonymous calls and 341 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 2: rumors circling around Mike's murder did. 342 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 11: Rumors that you hear from phone calls, that you get 343 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 11: that you don't know who it is. So I'd get 344 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 11: calls and mumors. You know your brother was mutilated, his 345 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 11: heart was removed. Weird, weird shit. I had one letter 346 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 11: that was Mike was killed as part of a Satanic 347 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 11: ritual and this was carved in his chest and blah 348 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 11: blah blah, and I'd send this to him and they said, 349 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 11: we can't comment on it. 350 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 2: At the same time, the state continued to push the 351 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 2: narrative that Gable was the killer. After months of back 352 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 2: and forth phone calls and over a year since his 353 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 2: brother's murder, Kevin got a call from the police captain 354 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 2: heading up the investigation. 355 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 6: I got the phone call at home on April ninth, 356 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 6: the morning of April ninth, and I'm going to say 357 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 6: it was around seven or eight o'clock in the morning, 358 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 6: and it was Captain Dennis O'Donnell on the line, and 359 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 6: he stated his purpose for the call was to inform 360 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 6: me that they had indicted Frank Gable for the murder Mike. 361 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 6: I said something to the fact that you're going to 362 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 6: be shitting me. I said, why are you calling me 363 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 6: instead of because I was expecting that if there was 364 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 6: a call that had become the DA's office. And he said, 365 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 6: we flipped to coin and I lost. 366 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:07,199 Speaker 2: So that's how they chose to tell the brother of 367 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,239 Speaker 2: a murder victim that someone had been indicted in the 368 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 2: crime right and Kevin was far from convinced they'd indicted 369 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 2: the right man. 370 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 6: And I said, I'm going to be coming out there 371 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 6: for the trial. And he said, no, you don't need 372 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 6: to do that. It's you know, put yourself through that, 373 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 6: your family and all that. You'll get contemporaneous updates from 374 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 6: everybody here. And I thought, well, you know, why didn't 375 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 6: he want me to come out there for the trial. 376 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 6: And I said, I'm going to be coming out there anyway. 377 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 6: And there's this long pause and he said, well, there's 378 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 6: nothing I can do to dissuade you. And he said, anyway, 379 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 6: don't try to contact me. I'm going on vacation. 380 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 2: A week later, Kevin would decide to leave Florida altogether. 381 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 5: They didn't have anything to stay in Florida for, so. 382 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 2: On August sixteenth of nineteen ninety, he set out again 383 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 2: for the town where his brother was brutally murdered. On 384 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 2: the way, he stopped by Prairie Village, Kansas, to visit 385 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 2: for his mother's birthday. It was the first time he'd 386 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 2: seen his parents since Michael's death. As he walked up 387 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 2: the path to his childhood home, he was greeted by 388 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 2: his overjoyed mother, and. 389 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 11: It was beautiful summer morning. I was tired as hell, 390 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 11: and she was a site for saures. Saw my old 391 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 11: man come off out of the front door, and they 392 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 11: didn't know I was going to be there, and he 393 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 11: was balling like a baby. I was here, skipped down 394 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 11: the stairs like that in years. It was good to 395 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 11: see them, and I told him was thinking about going 396 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 11: to Oregon, and they were trying to talk me out 397 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 11: of it. 398 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 5: Anyway. I left the next day. 399 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 2: And the entire trip, Kevin's thoughts were on Mike and 400 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 2: his accused killer. 401 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 11: By the time I seventy West came up, I was there, 402 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 11: and Western Colorado opened up before me, and into Utah 403 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 11: and watching the sun go down, going up into Idaho 404 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 11: and coming down the Columbia River Gorge in Oregon in 405 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 11: the middle of the night, pitch black, and then dawn 406 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:21,479 Speaker 11: in Portland, Oregon, seven o'clock falling into town, and it 407 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 11: was like I blinked and here I was. 408 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 2: But certain people seemed to know Kevin was there too, 409 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 2: and didn't exactly give him a warm welcome. 410 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 11: The very first night that I was in Oregon, I 411 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 11: got my tires slashed, and then I got a note saying, 412 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 11: welcome to Oregon, Now go home. I was placed on 413 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,479 Speaker 11: the windshield. 414 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 2: And it wouldn't end there. 415 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 11: I started to feel like I was being watched. I 416 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,239 Speaker 11: started paying attention to that, and I started seeing the 417 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 11: same curves and the same people, and I'd stop and 418 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 11: they would go away and then find me again. And 419 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 11: it it does make you feel a little nuts. 420 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 2: But despite this, Salem is where Kevin would remain determined 421 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 2: to solve his brother's murder no matter what, and one 422 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 2: of the first people he got into touch with was 423 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 2: television reporter Eric Mason. 424 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 13: I'm doing an interview with Kevin right away, within a 425 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 13: few days of him coming to town. He has nowhere 426 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 13: to stay, and he's trying to find a place to stay, 427 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 13: and I say, you know, listen out, I'll do anything 428 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 13: to try to help you. And so I think he 429 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 13: did at one point camp out overnight in the in 430 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 13: the office until I can find something to you know, 431 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 13: stay with permanently. 432 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 2: Eric Mason's office became a sort of bunker for Kevin. 433 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 2: To pour through all the interviews in press conferences involving 434 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 2: Mike's investigation, in Gable's indictment. 435 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 11: The well the video equipment there is in the interviews 436 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 11: with Scott McAllister that I was interested in a lot 437 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 11: of the bullshit. The Goldschmidt was bouncing off the walls 438 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 11: and likening as my brother Pat and myself too. In 439 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 11: one he had to cut out, but he said he 440 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 11: was like a hysterical female. 441 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 2: It was just another in a line of statements and 442 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 2: insults like the cranky brothers used to try to discredit 443 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 2: Kevin and Pat's efforts. 444 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 13: Yeah, I remember early on that Kevin had the level 445 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 13: of suspicion in his mind that would put cops on edge, 446 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 13: and that he was not only suspicious of the people 447 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 13: that surrounded Mike in the prison system, he was also 448 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 13: very suspicious of the people that were investigating his brother's murder. 449 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 13: And he made that really clear early on and didn't 450 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 13: pulling bunches with that. He wanted some level of oversight 451 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 13: and that any reporter that was going to take extra 452 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 13: time to go digging, he was going to try to 453 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 13: help them with what was going on with the investigation. 454 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 2: And so Kevin turned to the press for that oversight 455 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 2: and to help him draw attention to what he considered 456 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 2: serious flaws in the investigation. 457 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 13: Steve Jackson was on top of it every day. From 458 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 13: the Statesman Journal, Phil Stanford had a column that he 459 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 13: could push the limits of journalism into opinion. 460 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 14: Really far with some really speculative material. And Phil Statford 461 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 14: actually I think brought the iro of his own, you know, 462 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 14: colleagues at the Oregonians, Like I mean, he kept a 463 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 14: lot of it coming and a good degree of content 464 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 14: within the ballpark of what is possible when corruption is 465 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 14: going on. 466 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 2: But Phil was quickly finding himself at odds with his 467 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 2: own paper over his columns on the Frankie investigation. 468 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:52,360 Speaker 3: Well, the pushback was coming not from my immediate superior, 469 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 3: but from the news operation and the news editor who 470 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 3: was supporting a couple of basically inept reporters who had 471 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 3: been assigned to cover the Frankie case but were instead 472 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 3: just carrying water for the state police and the district attorney. 473 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:15,360 Speaker 3: So every time I raised questions about the case, they 474 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 3: felt that they were being criticized, I think, And eventually, 475 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 3: very soon they started dropping things into their news stories 476 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 3: about me this is very strange. It was very strange. 477 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 2: Phil was one of several prominent journalists raising questions. Here's 478 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 2: Eric Mason again. 479 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 13: So there were questions about the way that the DA 480 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 13: was handling things and with witnesses. That was Steve Jackson's specialty. 481 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 2: Here's Steve Jackson. 482 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 8: That's what troubled me the most about a lot of 483 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 8: this case. I think the prosecution was myopic, and they 484 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 8: settled on this is what happened, and we're going to 485 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 8: do everything we can't prove this is what happened, not 486 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 8: that something happened, and we're going to gather the evidence 487 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 8: and see what makes sense and what we can prove. 488 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 2: And they all seem dead set on avoiding the possibility 489 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 2: that corruption within Corrections could have led to Michael Frankie's murder, 490 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 2: or examining the staff members he was at odds with 491 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 2: at the time of his death, including Scott McAllister, the 492 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:27,719 Speaker 2: assistant ag he told Kevin he wanted removed. Here's Eric Mason. 493 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 13: Early on that was a question, what was it about 494 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 13: Scott McAllister that irked a brand new corrections director from 495 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 13: New Mexico so bad he didn't want to go on 496 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,959 Speaker 13: vacation with him. 497 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 2: There would later be talk about that vacation, a team 498 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 2: building ski trip that Michael Frankie went on shortly after 499 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 2: joining Corrections in Oregon. Frankie, an avid skier, was looking 500 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 2: forward to the work retreat, but for some reason abruptly left. 501 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 2: Years later, Eric Mason would interview Mike Frankie's then secretary 502 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 2: about his hasty return from that trip. 503 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 15: What Evely Meeks said was within a day of Mike arriving, 504 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 15: something had upset him so much that he wanted to 505 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 15: get right back on the road for Oregon, either on 506 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 15: a plane or in a rental car, to get him 507 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 15: back as quickly as possible, because he didn't want anything 508 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 15: to do with the people who were on that ski trip. 509 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 2: Was Scott Mcowister on that ski trip. 510 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 16: Yes, and that actually when he returns, it is clear 511 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 16: to the inner circle there at Corrections that Mike wanted 512 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 16: Scott McAllister not to be the attorney for the Corrections 513 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 16: Division any longer. 514 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 2: Mason's pursuit of the case led him to ten Natividad's 515 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 2: ex Liz Godlove, who, as we spoke about last episode, 516 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 2: had come forward to the police with information she believed 517 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:02,719 Speaker 2: pointed to Natividad as the potential murderer and was basically dismissed. 518 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 13: She had was now a main character inside the world 519 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 13: of Michael. Frankie. You know, I had a fat chart 520 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 13: in my office with photographs and Tim to Timidad and 521 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 13: Liz Godlove. 522 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,479 Speaker 5: Were on my chart right away. Yeah, after hearing this. 523 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 2: At first, Liz didn't want to go public with the 524 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 2: information and was even cautioned by authorities not to. So 525 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 2: you and your lawyer make the decision to go public. 526 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 2: We didn't. 527 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, why, you know, we just wanted the truth to 528 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 4: come out. We needed closure, Michael needed justice, and we 529 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 4: just we did. We had a just a feeling, it 530 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 4: was Tim. 531 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 2: That must have been like a difficult decision. You had 532 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 2: just been through a really traumatic life experience. 533 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 4: Traumatic is right, it was. It was tough. I was 534 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 4: really scared, but also drawn strongly to do it, to 535 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 4: talk about it. 536 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 2: Since Kevin was spending so much time at Eric's office 537 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 2: and knew Liz was a person of interest in his 538 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 2: brother's case, he went to her attorney's office to observe 539 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 2: that interview. 540 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 11: Eric was there, and Liz was there, and her sister 541 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 11: Karen was there, and I was there and we introduced 542 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 11: each other. They were going to backshoot Liz so that 543 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 11: they could just see the profile on TV, and of 544 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 11: course I could see everything. The camera could see the 545 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 11: facial expressions and things like that. 546 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 2: Eric Mason conducted the interview while Kevin looked on. Liz 547 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 2: laid everything out on the line about her belief that 548 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 2: Ten Natividad, the father of her child and man she 549 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 2: killed in self defense, was the man in the pinstripe suit, 550 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 2: Michael Frankie's potential killer. 551 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 11: I think that that really pushed a lot of buttons, 552 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 11: and not in a good way, made a lot of 553 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 11: people extremely uncomfortable that I was sitting there talking with 554 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 11: Liz and that Liz was now coming out with information 555 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 11: about Natividad. 556 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 2: Kevin immediately saw something in Liz that struck a chord 557 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 2: with him. 558 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 11: I knew the pain that she had felt and that 559 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 11: she was feeling, and the absolute horror that she went 560 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 11: through with the murderer and the trial and the accusations 561 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 11: and the bullshit basically, and I could identify with that. 562 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 2: As he listened to Liz tell her story, Kevin found 563 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 2: more and more to identify with. 564 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 11: I was shocked that the system the state police, the 565 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 11: district attorney's office, the governor's people, and the governor himself 566 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 11: would take exception to me and my brother Pat having 567 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 11: more than a casual interest in the murder of my brother, 568 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 11: for christ and to just shoe you off as they go. 569 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 11: Mind your own business. We'll take care of it. We'll 570 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 11: let you know if we find anything. So you had 571 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 11: that on top of the grieving, and you know, just 572 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 11: a blunderful of bullshit that I could relate to live 573 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 11: with that. 574 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 2: So Kevin asked her out for dinner. The traumatized ex 575 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 2: girlfriend and killer of his brother's likely murderer. 576 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 4: Stop and think about it. Oh my god, the two 577 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 4: of us, you know what we had gone through. Here 578 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 4: we are together on a date. He's like, you know, 579 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 4: he wanted to spend more time with me, and I 580 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 4: did him, and it grew pretty quickly. But really we 581 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 4: leaned on each other and it was very, very nice. 582 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 11: I didn't get any pushback. I think Pat might have 583 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 11: said something like, you're sure you're okay, and you're sure 584 00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 11: you're doing the right thing. I think Pat knew me 585 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 11: wellodough and knows me well enough to know that I 586 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 11: knew where I was stepping and you know, I didn't 587 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 11: fall into this thing as a bling idiot, and that date. 588 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 2: Ultimately it turned into what's now a nearly thirty year marriage, 589 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 2: despite the many obstacles they had to overcome. 590 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 4: Well, we make a great team and he makes me 591 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 4: laugh every single day. 592 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,760 Speaker 2: He's funny. 593 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 11: Yeah, the kids and the dogs and the cats and 594 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 11: the parents, and you know, the whole thing is it's fun. 595 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 2: But all of that came much later after Liz's interview 596 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 2: with Mason. Kevin continued to pursue his own interviews with 597 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 2: people he believed to be connected to his brother's murder, 598 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 2: not believing Frank Gable, who would soon stand trial, to 599 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 2: be involved. That was leading Kevin deeply into Salem's criminal element. 600 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 2: It was also leading him into a very acrimonious and 601 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,280 Speaker 2: increasingly targeted relationship with the police. 602 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 11: But at anytime I was getting followed, I thought that 603 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,879 Speaker 11: there was a chance that I could get pulled over 604 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 11: on a side street or something like that, and the 605 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 11: byline would be to reached for a gun, or he 606 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 11: did something stupid and felt threatened. 607 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 5: That sort of nonsense. 608 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,839 Speaker 2: The police had taken to more than verbally threatening Kevin. 609 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 11: Well it's not verbal when there's a gunpoint in your temple, 610 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 11: and that happened on several occasions. 611 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 2: Kevin says he was constantly being followed by state police 612 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 2: cars and felt like he and Liz were in danger. 613 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 2: It got so bad they considered packing up and leaving 614 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:57,800 Speaker 2: town for good. 615 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 11: And there was one I'm a state police car pulls 616 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 11: up next to me and slides over in front of 617 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 11: me and slows down real slow. And then another one 618 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 11: suddenly appears out of a side street and is next 619 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 11: to me, and then there's one behind me, and Liz goes, 620 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 11: oh shit. I pulled over a curb and a gas 621 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 11: station and got around on the other sidecle in the 622 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:31,280 Speaker 11: other direction, and they couldn't get off to. 623 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 5: Come pursue me. But it was just a little we 624 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 5: know you're here type of shit. 625 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 2: It seemed they were sending Kevin a message that they 626 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:51,319 Speaker 2: wanted him gone. Another time, Kevin got a page from 627 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 2: a policeman who asked him to come meet him down 628 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 2: at a local bar. That's how Kevin found out there 629 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 2: was an officer's advisory on the law enforcement data system 630 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 2: stating he could be armed and dangerous. 631 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:10,720 Speaker 11: It said Officers Safety advisory that the subject individual approach 632 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 11: with caution something to that effect, don to carry weapons. 633 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 5: And regarding a. 634 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,320 Speaker 11: Assassin's rifle with a high prioscope in the trunk of his. 635 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 2: Car, a gun that Kevin didn't have, it. 636 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 11: Gives basically any cop the wherewithal to take you out 637 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 11: if he's a dirty cop. And there was also the 638 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 11: great possibility, because that officer's safety advisory, that there was 639 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 11: anybody's opportunity to take my head off and say, yep, 640 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 11: we told you he had an assassin's rifle and he 641 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 11: was armed. The whole purpose was to get me the 642 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:51,320 Speaker 11: hell out of town. 643 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,760 Speaker 2: I think, And then it all came to a head. 644 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 2: It seemed the Salem and State police were no longer 645 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 2: content with me intimidation. One night, after drinking at a 646 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 2: local bar with his friend John Bray, things escalated. 647 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 11: We were coming down Center Street in Salem by the 648 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 11: deck In and there was a Salem cop that pulled 649 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 11: out and started following me, and there was another one, 650 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,359 Speaker 11: and then suddenly there's a state cap and I think 651 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:24,439 Speaker 11: a Marion County cut. 652 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 5: I think there were a. 653 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,840 Speaker 11: Total of six cars, five cop cars in this white 654 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 11: tea bird and they're following me down Center Street, and 655 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,760 Speaker 11: I only lived about a block east of Cordon Road, 656 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 11: right off Center Street, and they let me up right 657 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,399 Speaker 11: as I got to the stop sign. I kept going, 658 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 11: stopped at Cordon Road and the sirens came on. Then 659 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 11: they were whooping it up. 660 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 2: They kept in pursuit even as Kevin neared his home. 661 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 11: I pulled in right in front of where we lived, 662 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,720 Speaker 11: and the cops pull in behind me. All their lights 663 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:08,880 Speaker 11: are going on, which wakes Liz up. And that was 664 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 11: when they got on the PA system and gave me 665 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 11: the orders to let me see your hands, and exit 666 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,359 Speaker 11: the vehicle and get on your knees. And I wasn't 667 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 11: going to get on my knees. I sat there waiting forward. 668 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,280 Speaker 11: I was just wondering if I was going to see 669 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 11: the windshield blow out before my brains. All kinds of 670 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 11: weird things were coming into my head. And there was 671 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 11: a guy sitting over to my right, and I kept 672 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 11: watching the cops in my rear view mirror because they 673 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 11: had the light shining in the outside mirror here, so 674 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,839 Speaker 11: I redirected that to shine the light back towards them, 675 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,839 Speaker 11: and I had my other mirror over here that I had, 676 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,240 Speaker 11: so I could wash and see, and I could see 677 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,480 Speaker 11: about five cops back there, and I saw a couple 678 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,280 Speaker 11: with shotguns, and I saw the rest with their handguns out. 679 00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,239 Speaker 11: I said, Sean, who is that guy? To Wright and 680 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 11: he says, this's fuck at Heart. And Heart was Oregon 681 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 11: State Police. Heart and Lauren Glover used to do all 682 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,759 Speaker 11: the criminal investigations at the joint. And he's got a shotgun, 683 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 11: a right gun, pointed in the window. And that's when 684 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 11: I really really really got scared. 685 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 2: You thought you were a dead man? 686 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, I did. 687 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 11: And then Liz came out and started yelling Kevin, what 688 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 11: the hell's going on? And John's father in law comes 689 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 11: out of the house for the shotgun. He says, what 690 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,959 Speaker 11: the hell's going on down there? So all these people 691 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,359 Speaker 11: are coming down, and Heart is looking around and he's 692 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 11: screaming at Liz to get back in the house because now. 693 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 2: He has how many witnesses do. 694 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 11: Yeah, everybody in the world and his brother and all 695 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 11: the lights are coming on over at John's house. And 696 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 11: that's when they threw me in the back of the 697 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 11: car and slammed the door on my feet and searched 698 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 11: the car and didn't find anything illegal, obviously, because there 699 00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:58,280 Speaker 11: wasn't anything illegal. 700 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 2: What else did they say they were doing this? 701 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 11: They said that they had gotten a report that I 702 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:09,360 Speaker 11: had threatened somebody with a gun, and I said who, 703 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 11: It wouldn't tell me you and I tried to get 704 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 11: the police report, and it was an anonymous tip phoned 705 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 11: in that I had threatened somebody with a gun. And 706 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,959 Speaker 11: the only thing I could figure was probably fucking heart 707 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 11: that phoned it in and then joined the parade, because 708 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:26,840 Speaker 11: he was probably giving. 709 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 5: Him cordinates or where I was. 710 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,360 Speaker 11: They said, I was phoned in from a payphone. 711 00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 2: How did that end? 712 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:35,360 Speaker 5: Everybody was coming out. 713 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,759 Speaker 11: And they went up and searched the car. 714 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:39,360 Speaker 5: John. 715 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:44,360 Speaker 11: They had John faced down out on the grass, and boom, 716 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 11: they just disappeared. The guy said, you know, you better 717 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 11: be careful, Kevin. The next guy might shoot you. 718 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 2: On the next murder and or agon the state mounts 719 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,279 Speaker 2: a baffling murder trial based on questionable witnesses. 720 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,720 Speaker 11: All those people have told the different stories sixteen different times. 721 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 5: You can't rely on anybody's testimony, but testified that trial. 722 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 2: A severely compromised defense team. 723 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,400 Speaker 12: If I was going to pick an attorney to handle that, 724 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 12: I would have picked several other people first. 725 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,799 Speaker 2: That ends with a shocking verdict. 726 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 13: I was stunt. 727 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:31,520 Speaker 5: It did not make this sense. 728 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: Murder in Oregon is hosted by Lauren Bright Pacheco and 729 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: Phil Stanford. Executive producers are Noel Brown, Lauren Bright Pacheco, 730 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,799 Speaker 1: and Phil Stanford. Supervising producer and lead editor is Taylor Chicogyne. 731 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 1: Sound designed by Tristan McNeil, Story editing by Matt Riddle, 732 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,719 Speaker 1: written by Phil Stanford, Matt Riddle, and Lauren Bright Pacheco. 733 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,120 Speaker 1: Music written and performed by the Diamond Street Players and 734 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,760 Speaker 1: mixed by Taylor's Coin, with music supervision by Noel Brown. 735 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:08,720 Speaker 1: Additional music by Tristan McNeil. Archival elements courtesy of KGW 736 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 1: in Portland, Oregon. The station behind the podcast. 737 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:12,279 Speaker 5: Urged to Kill. 738 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,160 Speaker 1: Murder in Oregon is a production of iHeartRadio.