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Speaker 1: Pushkin. It's been a little over nine months since Rick

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Speaker 1: Rubin last interviewed Killer Mike and LP for the show.

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Speaker 1: Last time they spoke, Run the Jewels were finishing up

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Speaker 1: their fourth album at Rick Studio, Shangha Law, and since then,

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Speaker 1: the world's been upside down, dealing with the pandemic, social unrest,

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Speaker 1: and a racial reckoning Unlike anything we've seen in the

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Speaker 1: last couple of decades. This album feels like a reflection

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Speaker 1: of all of that. Killer Mike and LP have been

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Speaker 1: raw since day one, making a career rapping about the

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Speaker 1: hypocrisy and injustice that a lot of other people are

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Speaker 1: just now waking up to. As Rick says, it makes

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Speaker 1: the new album sound almost prophetic. But as you'll hear

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Speaker 1: them say, they never set out to make protest songs

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Speaker 1: or the soundtrack for twenty twenty. They just speak their truth,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes that truth is ugly and dark, but can

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Speaker 1: also be funny and at times downright joyous. This is

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Speaker 1: easily my favorite release of the year so far. This

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Speaker 1: is broken record Liner notes for the digital age. I'm

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Speaker 1: justin Richmond. Rick and Run the Jewels had a lot

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Speaker 1: to talk about. We wanted this one to breathe a

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Speaker 1: little bit to give Killer, Mike and Elfie time to

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Speaker 1: really dig into the making of the new album and

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Speaker 1: the state of the world. Here's Rick Rubin with Run

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Speaker 1: the Jewels. Let's talk about the album. Hell yeah, before

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Speaker 1: you started, was there any overarching principle in mind going

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Speaker 1: into the fourth album? Yeah, it had to be jamming

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Speaker 1: and uh and it had to be a retired to aggression. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: no doubt. I think we just knew that we wanted

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Speaker 1: this record too. We wanted it to be a shotgun

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Speaker 1: blast man. We wanted it to be fire and like

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Speaker 1: you said, the other one was like water, it was blue,

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Speaker 1: it was you know, it was tapping in some sadness

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Speaker 1: that we both like naturally kind of tapped into. And

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Speaker 1: I don't think we felt that way this time. I

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Speaker 1: think we felt like ready to kind of like brand

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Speaker 1: new again. I think we felt ready to rot, crush, kill, destroy,

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Speaker 1: like and I think that it was sort of unspoken.

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Speaker 1: Me and Mike don't really talk too much about this ship,

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Speaker 1: but we but I remember I sort of one of

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Speaker 1: the first sessions that we had, I started playing him

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Speaker 1: some of the music that I had been making to

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Speaker 1: play him because that's what I do. I go and

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Speaker 1: I make a bunch of music, and I kind of

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Speaker 1: picked the things that I think are you know, worthy

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Speaker 1: of both of us jumping on and playing from Mike

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Speaker 1: see how he responds. And one of the first things

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Speaker 1: I played him was the thing that I wanted the

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Speaker 1: most for him to like, which was their first song

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Speaker 1: on album, Yankee and the Brave, which in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways was a return to a lot of the

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Speaker 1: older sort of production techniques that I used to use

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Speaker 1: coming up. I was using, you know, using samplers and

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Speaker 1: breaks and and kind of filtered through, you know, a

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Speaker 1: new understanding of production that had I had gotten to

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Speaker 1: through the years of really understanding frequency at low end

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Speaker 1: and all of the things that really matter when you're

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Speaker 1: you're bumping some shit in the system. But I was

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Speaker 1: just praying that Mike got it, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: like that Mike got what I wanted out of that spirit,

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Speaker 1: And of course he did immediately, and he immediately kind

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Speaker 1: of like grinned and was like, oh, yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: this is this is the first jam, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. And we recorded that jam and who and

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Speaker 1: oh La La same day too, in one day, and

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Speaker 1: and I remember even playing the Ship for you actually,

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Speaker 1: where I was like, yeah, we don't have much, but

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Speaker 1: I think we have like the first like two songs

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Speaker 1: and and and even you were like, yeah, those are

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Speaker 1: the first two songs, um right, But yeah it was.

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Speaker 1: It was undeniable lot of lights. And it was weird though,

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Speaker 1: because that's not what normally happens. It's usually like you

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Speaker 1: do a bunch of jams and then you figure out

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Speaker 1: the order. And this one like really sort of wrote

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Speaker 1: itself pretty quickly, like at least the first half of

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Speaker 1: the record seemed to like right himself. So I think

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Speaker 1: we just wanted to be lean and mean and and

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Speaker 1: and you know, fucking and carrying flamethrowers. On that first track,

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Speaker 1: do you remember what came first lyrically? That was Mike

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Speaker 1: back at it and at it like that whole pattern.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh shit, Mike is Mike is flipping

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Speaker 1: on cats. Like immediately he set the tone of that ship.

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Speaker 1: And that was that to me, that just set the

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Speaker 1: tone for the album. Yeah, that that line had been

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Speaker 1: in my mind, like you're that back at it like

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Speaker 1: a crack at it, mister Black, And that that had

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Speaker 1: been in my mind like a year, like like, let's

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Speaker 1: fuck it up. I'm Mike Tyson. You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: I'm I believe in starting hard, coming out swinging. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: ell Is Ell is like Mayweather esque in that he

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Speaker 1: has the ability to finish. His thoughts are finishing the beautiful,

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Speaker 1: Like I don't care how well you think you did

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Speaker 1: against Floyd. He gonna take, you know, twelve rounds and

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Speaker 1: your weakness is gonna show because his defense is penetrable.

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Speaker 1: So but me, I'm coming in, ducking, moving side to side,

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Speaker 1: trying to knock your fucking head off. So I had

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Speaker 1: wanted to that. I wanted that to be the first

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Speaker 1: line on an album since we finished the last album.

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Speaker 1: You know, after I'm done with like an album. It

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Speaker 1: for me, it's like I'm already thinking that the next

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Speaker 1: Like watching that Michael Jordan's shit like really helped me

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Speaker 1: understand that I'm not insane. In my mind, everybody's sleeping

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Speaker 1: on me. I don't give a fuck if they're not

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Speaker 1: sleeping on me, they're sleeping on me. So that's what

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Speaker 1: I tell myself to get myself ready. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's part of the reason I'm always leaned toward aggressive rapping.

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Even when I'm happy, it

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Speaker 1: can sound aggressive. So for me, yeah, I'm like, man,

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Speaker 1: you motherfucker's still don't get how adult Run the Jewels

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Speaker 1: is and hear the fuck we go again, And I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna feel like that every run of Jews record because

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Speaker 1: I don't never want to get complacent, and I don't

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Speaker 1: never want to get compliant to whatever the new rule

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Speaker 1: the sound is. I always want to push. I was

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Speaker 1: gonna say there were specific lines in that song that

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Speaker 1: when we listened to them in the studio I loved them.

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Speaker 1: But now when they came out in the world, it

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Speaker 1: almost seems like psychic mind reading, Like it's it's really incredible,

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Speaker 1: how in the moment the lyrics sound like they're being

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Speaker 1: written about what's happening. But I heard them before it

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Speaker 1: was happening, and at that time I would say I

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Speaker 1: didn't feel any threat of it happening. If it was,

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Speaker 1: it's remarkable, and that was not long ago. How the

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Speaker 1: energy shifted. Mike, what do you where do you think

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Speaker 1: that comes from? I think that the times are forever

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Speaker 1: in always, and you know, the oligarchs of always making

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Speaker 1: slaves of us were always resisting. Rome would have crushed,

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Speaker 1: crumbled two hundred years prior and had it not been

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Speaker 1: the circle for the circus. If there is no entertainment,

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Speaker 1: if there is no distraction, if there is no what

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Speaker 1: is the food weekly or what is the next fucking

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Speaker 1: app If none of that happens, and you're left to

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Speaker 1: see the world for what it really raw is. We're

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Speaker 1: in a fucking jungle all the time now. Because I

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Speaker 1: represent a group of people that happen to be on

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Speaker 1: the lowest run of that ladder in the most brutal

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Speaker 1: capitalistic system in the world, we always see the jungle.

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Speaker 1: Even though you can distract yourself with drugs and drinking

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Speaker 1: and fun, and you know, even in all distractions aren't bad.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you just focus in on you and your family.

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Speaker 1: The jungle still is fucking going on, And I think

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Speaker 1: that what you know, for me, it's like everybody start

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Speaker 1: paying attention at the exact same time. So the lyrics

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Speaker 1: that I've been wrapping for seven I met with the

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Speaker 1: Black Panthers yesterday, very good meeting. A lot of these

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Speaker 1: people are in their seventies and have given over fifty

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Speaker 1: years of their life to the revolution and the struggle

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Speaker 1: for the proletariat to overcome you know what we are overcoming.

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Speaker 1: And you know, the first thing I said, besides thanking

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Speaker 1: them for putting me next to cardib in our open letter,

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Speaker 1: was Hey, I've been waiting for you guys to call

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Speaker 1: me seventeen years, and I've actively been shouting y'all out.

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Speaker 1: I have been representing for people like me two New

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Speaker 1: Shapur Asida Shapur, you know, include them and out limits

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Speaker 1: to people like Nni Pelter in the American Indian Movement

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Speaker 1: and things of that nature. So I'm like, I'm fucking

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Speaker 1: glad that you no longer look at rappers is simply

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Speaker 1: the minstrual class to be used by you or the

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Speaker 1: other side to repeat. But I'm glad you're engaging me

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Speaker 1: as an organizer because for me, that's what this ship

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Speaker 1: is about. Music and art represent the times when Nina

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Speaker 1: Simons as an artist duty to represent the time. So

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that the words hit people, but they're always true.

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Speaker 1: Before Eric Garner, I can't breathe. It is true. Post

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Speaker 1: Eric Garner, I can't breathe. It is true. And unless

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Speaker 1: we do something to to resist the state and it's

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Speaker 1: tearing it over us, using authoritarian using our own citizens,

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Speaker 1: fellow citizens of authority figures to the most brutal extent.

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Speaker 1: Then those songs will always be relevant. It's just when

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Speaker 1: the people choose to pay attention, and that that's the difference.

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Speaker 1: There is no going to the movies, There is no

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Speaker 1: you know, distracting yourself from what's going on right now,

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Speaker 1: because everybody's the fucking size. So you know, I'm glad

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Speaker 1: they got it. So if the jungle is ongoing, can

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Speaker 1: you be optimistic? Absolutely? Why would you be? You know? Why? Why?

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Speaker 1: Why deny yourself happiness in the midst of it? You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know. All I know is for

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Speaker 1: four hundred and one years, my people have been here,

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Speaker 1: and it's been a hellacious four hundred and one years.

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Speaker 1: And for four hundred and one years they have resisted,

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Speaker 1: and for four one hundred and one years they have

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Speaker 1: found joy in times of brutal sadness. My grandparents, you know,

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Speaker 1: I remember asking my grandmother. You know, I'm a young

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Speaker 1: pocass kid. We raised my grandparents, you know, me and

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Speaker 1: my sisters we don't get air Jordan's, but you know,

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Speaker 1: what matters to get the sixty dollars, nikes at Marshall,

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Speaker 1: so our whole shit. We don't think we're rich. We

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Speaker 1: don't understand how rich we are. Until one day we

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Speaker 1: asked our grandmother, what did you get for Christmas? Now,

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Speaker 1: my grandmother's from a landowning family. They have a farm,

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Speaker 1: but they're still working a farm. They wear potato sack dresses,

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Speaker 1: and she said, we'd be lucky to get potato sack

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Speaker 1: drawls and a bag of fruit. And I'm thinking bag

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Speaker 1: of fucking brute for Christmas underwear, Like what the fuck

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Speaker 1: kind of Untie Linda underwear? Given ass? Shit is this?

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Speaker 1: And my grandfather said she what Christmas? I had two

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Speaker 1: sisters and I had to work, and I was in

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Speaker 1: the third grade, and I'm thinking, you're nine in the

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Speaker 1: third grade. There is no such thing as Christmas for him,

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Speaker 1: and there has never been until he starts a family

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Speaker 1: and his wife and his children and grandchildren. But I

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Speaker 1: realized then that what was or I realized then more

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Speaker 1: and more now that happiness is not Currently are always

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Speaker 1: defined by the wows of the jungle coming on us.

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Speaker 1: Even if you're on a hunt, you're gonna find time

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Speaker 1: to laugh, even if you're being hunted and you evadue capture,

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Speaker 1: You're gonna find time to last. Enjoy is the greatest

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Speaker 1: anecdote for pain I have seen in the last two years,

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Speaker 1: you know, three or four years, my mother died via

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Speaker 1: a telephone. I've seen a young niece of my wife

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Speaker 1: and I is dies cancer and never lost their joy

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Speaker 1: through it all, you know what I'm saying. So in

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Speaker 1: the jungle, that's really all you have. The ability to love,

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Speaker 1: the ability to comfort one another, to experience joy and

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Speaker 1: the euphoria of surviving together. There's there's you know, as

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Speaker 1: an adrenaline junkie. You know, my man Carlos, who's an

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Speaker 1: amazing comedian, a wild and out said man. Being black

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Speaker 1: is dangerous and count of fun as fuck. So I

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Speaker 1: think the people, for regular people, the jungle is dangerous,

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Speaker 1: it is wild, but it's it's it's at times you've

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Speaker 1: got a smile because you know you want a crap,

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Speaker 1: but it's fun as fun. That's one of the things

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Speaker 1: about Run the Jewels to me, that's so beautiful that

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Speaker 1: because these records are funny and joyous, and these records

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Speaker 1: aren't hopeless, You're not You're not talking to two dudes

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Speaker 1: who have lost hope. You're hearing two dudes fighting for

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Speaker 1: their hope. You're hearing two dudes, you know, giving their

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Speaker 1: take on hope. Hope doesn't mean blindness, Hope doesn't mean unawareness.

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Speaker 1: You know, those two things are not, you know, codependent.

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Speaker 1: And I love the fact that we could make a

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Speaker 1: record that is intense at times and speaks to, you know,

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Speaker 1: the shit that's going on in a real way that

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Speaker 1: is painful, but doesn't leave you feeling drained and depressed,

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Speaker 1: and doesn't leave you feeling hurt. It leaves you feeling

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Speaker 1: hopefully energized and excited. Um and in a typical way

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Speaker 1: not you know, I think the people underestimate the value

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Speaker 1: of honesty, you know, and how invigorating that could be,

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Speaker 1: like like how energetic honesty can be. The record ending

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Speaker 1: the way that it ended was important, you know, the

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Speaker 1: record ending like we're in front of a firing squad

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Speaker 1: and we are giving our summation of what makes us

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Speaker 1: us and the reason why we do what we do

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Speaker 1: in the form of sort of relating it back to

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Speaker 1: personal stories about the women in our lives and some

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Speaker 1: of the inspiration and some of the struggle that that

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Speaker 1: sort of leads us to who we are, and then

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Speaker 1: the last line is fuck you two and and then

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Speaker 1: you get into Yankee and the Brave and Yankee and

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Speaker 1: the Brave Is this stupid TV show via the nineteen

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Speaker 1: early nineteen eighties like dutsa Hazard or night Rider and

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Speaker 1: the Rascally you know, the rascal anti heroes somehow escape

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Speaker 1: with their lives and then sped off together in a

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Speaker 1: in a bureau grant National, you know, to smoke more

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Speaker 1: weed and fucko and and and and and fight another day.

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Speaker 1: And that, to me is always the reason why I'm

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Speaker 1: grateful that my partnership but Mike exists because I think

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Speaker 1: that I went I'd struggled for a long time to

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Speaker 1: find that type of voice, and I needed a friend

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Speaker 1: to help me, to help me have that type of

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Speaker 1: voice where I wanted to my music in the way

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Speaker 1: that I used to write it could. It was often

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Speaker 1: very heavy. But I don't think I always nailed I

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Speaker 1: don't think I always nailed the energy of hope, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. I don't think and I don't

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Speaker 1: think hope has to be a statement and you don't

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Speaker 1: have to say everything might be okay. So that's not

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Speaker 1: that's not hope. That's that's delusion um or that's you know,

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Speaker 1: wishful thinking, not necessarily delusion. Maybe it's just wishful thinking.

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Speaker 1: But you don't have to say that. You just have

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Speaker 1: to convey a spirit of fighting another day, I think,

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Speaker 1: and that's something that might help round out for me.

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Speaker 1: Like I'm I listened to some of my earlier music

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Speaker 1: and while I'm proud of it, the reason why I

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Speaker 1: love Being and Run the Jewels as an artist now

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Speaker 1: is because it took our friendship to find this other space,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, which is like, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I can actually talk about this stuff.

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Speaker 1: But there's another zone. There's another way to talk about

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Speaker 1: this shit that doesn't leave, that doesn't leave you feeling

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Speaker 1: beat down. It feels more of a more evolved position,

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Speaker 1: is what it feels like. I think. So, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think that our friendship has evolved us as artists.

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Speaker 1: It's really interesting when you have someone who makes where

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Speaker 1: you find that pocket where that where someone else and

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Speaker 1: their ideas, although strictly their ideas and strictly their personality,

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Speaker 1: it's nothing that you would ever think of, right, but

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Speaker 1: yet somehow they really do kind of complete your you know,

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Speaker 1: your personality as an artist, it allows you to play

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Speaker 1: your position stronger. It allows you to be who you

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Speaker 1: are strong it because you know that there's a balance,

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Speaker 1: you know, and it allows you to represent certain things

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Speaker 1: that in a different way that you couldn't say, you know,

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Speaker 1: like I can't. I can't say the stuff that might says.

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Speaker 1: It's not it's not my life, it's not my personality,

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Speaker 1: it's not who. But but I can stand in it.

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Speaker 1: I can stand with it, and I can show up

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Speaker 1: for it, you know, and and and and be myself

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Speaker 1: and and it. You know, in that regard, it's like, um,

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Speaker 1: it's really refreshing for me. And that's why I keep

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Speaker 1: doing it. It makes it a strong collaboration and the

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Speaker 1: fact that you're both so different but together make something

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Speaker 1: that's bigger than the individual. It's it's really cool, right exactly.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back with Run the Jewels after quick break.

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Speaker 1: We're back with Rick and Run the Jewels. We never

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Speaker 1: talked about this before, but how did the band? How

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Speaker 1: did the band start? I know we're mainly talking about

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Speaker 1: the new album that because we just talked so recently,

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Speaker 1: But last time we talk we didn't really get into

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Speaker 1: how you guys started doing this together. Well, I did.

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Speaker 1: I produced Mike's album Rap Music, and that was the

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Speaker 1: first project we did together, and I was just magic.

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Speaker 1: I think we both were just just loved that and

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Speaker 1: it just felt really, really great. I definitely recognized way

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Speaker 1: before Elle, this is a marriage made in heaven. And

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Speaker 1: I say that in a good way, like like like

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Speaker 1: the world had beat my buddy up. Man, it had

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Speaker 1: been some assholes out there of my main But I'm

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Speaker 1: just hopelessly optimistic and I'm a romantic and I knew

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Speaker 1: the first three beats Elle ever played me that for

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Speaker 1: the rest of my career, this motherfucker's gonna be producing me.

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Speaker 1: And after the first time we went out on the

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Speaker 1: road together, it's run the Jewels Word and my manager

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Speaker 1: for the party managing Circle Joe's City right next to me.

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Speaker 1: When I got off the buff, Joe was like, so,

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Speaker 1: what we're gonna do now? You give back to solo

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Speaker 1: album like asps a fucking lutely not I'm gonna rap

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Speaker 1: group like And that was dick like for me. That

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Speaker 1: was it's nothing else to say, Like I loved his

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Speaker 1: dude as a human being. He smoked cigarettes, but I

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Speaker 1: walked away and then I come back. I love his

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Speaker 1: his want for good, even on his meanness. Honrea's day,

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Speaker 1: it is about you know, he wants, he wants everything

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Speaker 1: to be okay. Like Ell is not as cynical as

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Speaker 1: people would have thought. The LP you know was, But

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Speaker 1: the motherfucker was just genuine and dope and he made

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Speaker 1: the illest makes the illest shit ever. And I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: as a rap, as a kid who grew up on

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Speaker 1: deaf jam, no ass kissing, how could you not want

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Speaker 1: to make the illest shit ever? Every time? Like I

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Speaker 1: still remember when the fuck I went and picked up

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Speaker 1: the Unbad album and with my own money by myself.

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Speaker 1: That's how LP beats made me feel every time I rapped.

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Speaker 1: So for me, I was just like, this is it

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Speaker 1: and all had definitely by it. After the first six

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Speaker 1: months albums this we just knew we're going to be

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Speaker 1: making records. But the group together, I think ultimately because

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Speaker 1: of the Rap Music Album, which is classic, and thank

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Speaker 1: thank God for Jason DeMarco putting us together. But I

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Speaker 1: think Jason DeMarco, who I always get credit to, is

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Speaker 1: the wizard in this movie. He's the person that saw

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Speaker 1: from a beat and rap perspective, but from a personality

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Speaker 1: respective perspective that we could potentially lock in. Because when

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Speaker 1: I called him excited going crazy the first album, it's

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Speaker 1: just rap music, he said, I was hoping you guys

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Speaker 1: would like each other. And you say that because I

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Speaker 1: was like, Jason, he has to produced album, and Jason

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Speaker 1: was like, I'm going to figure it out. So in

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Speaker 1: my mind's eye, if this is the illustrated novel, like

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Speaker 1: Jason literally is mister Glass, you know, his job was

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Speaker 1: to pull the superhero out of both of us and

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Speaker 1: put us together and say and say, well here it is,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So it's funny though, because

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Speaker 1: and that's all true, but the way they run the

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Speaker 1: Jewels started was way more accidental because even though we

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Speaker 1: had already been that's the origin story of us meeting.

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Speaker 1: I already had plans for you, man, I had policten

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Speaker 1: when you called me to do the mixtape. And I've

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Speaker 1: never said this to you when you called me to

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Speaker 1: do a mixtape. When when you was like, I gotta

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Speaker 1: turn the mixtape I write slow, Joe was like, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna go up there, you just gonna do it. An

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Speaker 1: I was like I don't give a fuck. I say,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna get back on his shit. It's something there.

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Speaker 1: I told you. I said it's something there based off UTA.

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Speaker 1: I'm just like I'm supposed to be rapping. I would

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Speaker 1: have wrapped twenty albums with you for free. Said that

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Speaker 1: I didn't give a fuck. I really and I remember

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Speaker 1: you're saying to beyo, Mike, there's no money. He was like,

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Speaker 1: I already have. I I don't give a shit. I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to because I knew the more we did

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Speaker 1: it together, the better the chances of us keeping doing

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Speaker 1: it together was. And I was in love, Like if

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Speaker 1: I compared it to my to my relationship, was saying

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Speaker 1: to my wife at that point, even though I was

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Speaker 1: still a line cheap dog. The first year, I just

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Speaker 1: knew I was in love. I was just like, this

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Speaker 1: is who the fuck Mary. So even if I would

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Speaker 1: have went and did ten other projects with other producers

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Speaker 1: at that point, I never wanted to be produceduced by

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Speaker 1: anybody in that way, but LP so out there. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's one of the things that's really unique for you

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Speaker 1: guys in today's world is, first of all, you're a

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Speaker 1: rap group. There's almost none and you're a rap group

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Speaker 1: that has a singular production style. Nobody, not even individual

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Speaker 1: rappers have that anymore. Nobody is coming from one place

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Speaker 1: production style. It's always a lot of voices musically on

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Speaker 1: every on every album. So this is a very unique

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Speaker 1: throwback situation. Yet it sounds yet it sounds super modern

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Speaker 1: at the same time. It's it's like traditional and cutting

399
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Speaker 1: edge mixed in one. But again, but yeah, we but

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Speaker 1: we we me and mine both grew up on all

401
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Speaker 1: of the ship from your error that you were involved in,

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Speaker 1: and that's how that stuff was and that's and that's

403
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Speaker 1: how and so you know, we I think I'll talk

404
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Speaker 1: about this a lot, but like our our age and

405
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Speaker 1: our reference point has been utilized for us as a

406
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Speaker 1: as a weapon to some degree, because we have a

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Speaker 1: reference that at this point, there's enough time between that

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Speaker 1: era and now where there aren't that many people who

409
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Speaker 1: are active, like really on the cutting edge right now

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Speaker 1: who legitimately have that reference, like you know, like who

411
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Speaker 1: legitimately you know, know what it was like to listen

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Speaker 1: to in Control Volume one with Marlon Mall when it

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Speaker 1: first came out, you know what I mean. And the

414
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Speaker 1: first Posse wreck, the first posse Cut album where a

415
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Speaker 1: producer was saying, I'm producing this and I'm putting different

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Speaker 1: voices together. There are people who don't remember what it

417
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Speaker 1: was like to listen to Public Enemy when they came out,

418
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Speaker 1: and or to BDP and understand. You know that people

419
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Speaker 1: had the ability to craft the sound. You know, ultramagnetic mcs,

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Speaker 1: you know, said said g also for BDP. But like

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Speaker 1: we're not too rapper is looking for being. This is

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Speaker 1: a musical operation like it. You know, we have a sound,

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Speaker 1: and you know it's based in the sound that that

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Speaker 1: I created, but it is evolved because of our partnership.

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Speaker 1: Like the reason why I run the Jewels sounds the

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Speaker 1: way it does now as opposed to like what I

427
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 1: was making for my own shit is because when I

428
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 1: knew when I got one Mike, I'm a producer. So

429
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I need I need to get

430
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,360
Speaker 1: out of my way or get out of Mike's way

431
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 1: in a sense, when I was like, all right, I'm

432
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,199
Speaker 1: gonna produce Mike's whole album, I need to open up

433
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: and be and know and understand and open up and

434
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: what I do in reference to who Mike is and

435
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: what his roots are too, you know what I mean.

436
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: So that added like that, that added like a bounce,

437
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: that added like and you know another element of it

438
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: because I wanted to give Mike the best platform to

439
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 1: be able to do everything that he was like really

440
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: in the pocket on and I transferred over to Run

441
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: the Jewels and it built that's you know, that ended

442
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: up building that sounds. So the real foundation of Run

443
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:10,880
Speaker 1: the Jewels production is a real combination of of influences

444
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: to a degree as as seen through me, you know

445
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: what I mean, as filtered through me and like with me,

446
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: Like the reason I'm not out there producing for a

447
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,439
Speaker 1: bunch of other people is because I'm in Run the Jewels,

448
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 1: Like I don't, I don't have a better group to

449
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 1: produce for it than Run the Jewels. Like that's for me,

450
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: That's what I want to do because Mike always trusted me,

451
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: like and that was one of them. That was I

452
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: think one of the deciding factors for me as a

453
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: as a as an artist to be like, yeah, I'm

454
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: gonna run with this dude, because he gave me a

455
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: gift that that some people don't really want to give

456
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: you you know, you're you know, he'd a bis rapper

457
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 1: producer on mother fucking Earth and that's see, that's see,

458
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,479
Speaker 1: that's it. But but but it's it's rare even when

459
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: you're called. I've done a lot of different novels for

460
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: different rappers, you know, in the past, and the ones

461
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: where there was that sort of trust there, the one

462
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: that we were, the ones that were the most exciting

463
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: for me, you know what I mean. Mike was always

464
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: really open. Mike was always open to my ship, and

465
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 1: which is cool because my shit is a little weird.

466
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: The ship is a little weirder than the you know,

467
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: it is um it always was. It was always a

468
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: little jagged, a little dissonant, a little from left field.

469
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: You know, that's what's ill like you're not an imitator, like,

470
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: that's the illest ship. Also raped nerd ship. So many

471
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: people imitated, and I don't even mean in a bad

472
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 1: way because if I hadn't been a twelve year old

473
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: imitating ice Cube, I never would have developed my style.

474
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: Early NWA, early ghetto Boys, early Shiit references run DMC.

475
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: A lot of IT references run DMC in terms of

476
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: the way they were patterns, the beats, but the good

477
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 1: ones they rolled to the top because they innovated as

478
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 1: they imitate the imitate you innovator, and before you know it,

479
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: you've made your own thing. What's ill about your ship?

480
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: And what's weird? And what I love about the weirdness

481
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: of it is this a progression of the ship we

482
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 1: grew up on. And it's never been a cheap imitation.

483
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 1: It has never been all. I've never walked in a

484
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: room and all just says, yeah, I just went and chopped.

485
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: The DC said, I'm like, nah, man l w and

486
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: fould and recreate and and I'm like, it's sound, but

487
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 1: it is this What the fuck have you done? And

488
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 1: before you know it we wrapping our ass off. And

489
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: that's what I love about. He ain't a viterer, he

490
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: ain't a swash swiper. He will take an influence from

491
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: our twelve year old or thirteen year old or conversation

492
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: about BDPN. He'll give something that feels like that to me.

493
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: But I'll never I don't. I never even get the

494
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: urge to swipe a pattern from Chris. You know what

495
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: I'm saying. It's just that I feel like Chris when

496
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: I'm wrapping this fit. And that's that's I don't know

497
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: what the call that I don't know what he does,

498
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: but the weirdness is something I trust because it's from

499
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: a pure place and it's not just swagswicking. So he

500
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: I just want to say, I love you Weirds. Keep

501
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 1: that weird shit coming, bro for real. Choice, I don't

502
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: have a choice. I wanted to be epm D you

503
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,719
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like I never, I could never.

504
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: One day I just woke up. Remember when I first

505
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 1: started doing records and people were like, it's so fucking crazy,

506
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what are you talking about? This just

507
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: sounds like this. It just sounds like normal done pimp

508
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: out to me. And it took me a while to

509
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: be like maybe it is, Like maybe I'm weird. What

510
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 1: was crazy though, it's with the epm V reference. I remember,

511
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: like if you look all through the Reggie Reggie Noble ship,

512
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: they did funk in a way that was not West Coast,

513
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: because West Coast did funk counter bright Kunda and sometimes

514
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: really if it was but if it was pure, pure

515
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: West Coast, it damn it even got counter so funky

516
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: it became something that was like your parents shit, like

517
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: boogie almost right. And I don't mean that in a

518
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: bad way to pun but it was it was a

519
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: boogyesh EPMD did that funk that was like, it was nasty,

520
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: it was ride, it was it was something else man

521
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: and it was dark and it was sewery, red and grimy.

522
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: And you've took that into take that influence into some wilder, weirder,

523
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: more spaced out like if their ship will had us

524
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 1: on the gunners and sewers, it was when the water

525
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: goes down into the guns and sewers, Like what kind

526
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 1: of wild, weird shit it's under the subways. And for me,

527
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: a rap nerve from the South, that's hole. I always

528
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: wanted to be able to do that kind of shit

529
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: with those kind of people like Premiere. Being from Texas

530
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: was one of the things that kept me rapping. I

531
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: was like, Yo, prem is from Texas. Oh, we can

532
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: do this scarface loving New York kip hoop. So it's

533
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: a dream to me to wrap it. So, even though

534
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: I'm not a New York MC, my Southern take on

535
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: New York m scene for some reason locks right into

536
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: what L does in a way that I couldn't get

537
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,719
Speaker 1: in the South for much of my career. Even though

538
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: people kind of felt where I was coming from it

539
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: wasn't from that soil. And I think that hybrid is

540
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: something that has made out sound something that that is

541
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: there's no bounds to it, you know. I remember when

542
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: Bunby called me Elle like second album, like one of

543
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: the Jews too, and he said, kill keep doing what

544
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: y'all doing, because you guys are going to have an

545
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: opportunity to be like outcasts. And I'm like, you know,

546
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: if that's what you smiling like, I uh, you know,

547
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: thank you. He say no. He say no, He say,

548
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: because they locked me and Pimp into this thing, even

549
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: though Pimp would want to expand and do this. Even

550
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: though he says they locked us in. He said, that's

551
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: not bad. We've had a he say, Ball and G.

552
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: People have a perception. He say, people have no perceptions

553
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: of y'all. Y'all just have the expectation of whatever you want.

554
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: We're gonna be willing to take the rial with you.

555
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: When he said, that's a freedom, so embrace that. So

556
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: I've never shot away from a lot of Elle's ideas

557
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: because my OLGS was just like, whatever the thing y'all

558
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: doing can take you guys past regionalism, past hip hop elitism,

559
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: past past southern um stereotypisms like two Chains is on

560
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: this record in big part because he's an LP fan.

561
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: He's my friend, you know what I'm saying. I loved

562
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: his rap, He's love my rap for years. But he

563
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: said I gotta get on the track with the White Man.

564
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: You know, he loves it. And that's such a that's

565
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing because that doesn't happen otherwise. And before

566
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: you know it, and I would never say this because

567
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: there's such a huge act to me. Before you know it,

568
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: we are accepted, like my items. We accepted like Cass.

569
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: We can go a lot of different places, do a

570
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: lot of different things because I trust the weirdness that's LP.

571
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: That's this this beautiful thing. You know, he's produced for

572
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: jez before. If I was geez El would have been lud.

573
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: He would have did Motivation three. You know. But thank god,

574
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: thank you Jeeves. I love you brother. It worked out.

575
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: I will say that while you're from the South, it

576
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: has a distinctly East Coast sound between the two of you,

577
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: it is it is definitely East Coast rap music. And

578
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: that's my fault because that's those are my for sure,

579
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: my roots. And like I said, but but but but

580
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: my partnership of Mike and my interest in rap music

581
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: in general, Like, I love all that shit. I always

582
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: love music from the South, I love music from the West,

583
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: I love music from That's something I think that for

584
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: a long time, people made a certain assumption about me,

585
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: that I was sort of I came from a certain ilk,

586
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: and that I was only appreciative of a certain type

587
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: of thing. I take what I take, what I feel

588
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: out of those influences and add them in, and I

589
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: think that the hybrid shit is the shit that's the

590
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: most potent to me, you know, Like and so me

591
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: and Mike are just immediately a hybrid and naturally a hybrid.

592
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: It's it wouldn't be as powerful if it was just

593
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: me on my beats. It just wouldn't be Mike coming

594
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: in with a with a with a Southern style and

595
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: influence just as you know, just as heavy as as

596
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: the influences that we share. He comes in with the

597
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: other thing and me coming in with you know, my roots.

598
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: We're fucking with sound here, you know what I mean,

599
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: Like we're creating sound. Next, the next track is uh

600
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: la La, which is my favorite beat on the album.

601
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: Oh really, that's awesome. Tell me a little bit about

602
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: how did it's like, even from a musical basis, How

603
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: did it start? Did it start with the sample? How

604
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: did it start? It started because I had I was

605
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: plotting on that Greg Nice sample for fucking decades. It

606
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: started because I always wanted to sample something. I didn't

607
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: know what it was going to be. I'm just a

608
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: huge Greg Nice fan, a huge Nice and Smooth fan,

609
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: an unheralded great hip hop group that I feel like

610
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: people aren't like should go back listening to their records

611
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: because they're so fucking fun and funky and dope. So

612
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: it just started with that, And it started with that

613
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: little piano thing that I played and then and then

614
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: chopped up, And that record is a perfect example I

615
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: think of what Run the Jewels For is about spiritually

616
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: in terms of the production approach, because I think more

617
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: than any other record before it, one of the things

618
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: that I knew going into this was like, Yo, I'm

619
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: actually going to lean into my influences on this, like

620
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm actually going to put them on display,

621
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: like might pointed out, which does not mean that I

622
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: want to recreate songs from from my childhood or or um,

623
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: but I'm going to try if I can to transfer

624
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: the spirit of those jams, to transfer to transfer that

625
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: everyone knows like there's this there's a particular type of

626
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: hip hop banger that that that comes from an era

627
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: before this one, that if you can nail the spirit

628
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: of it will put a fucking huge smile on anyone

629
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 1: who loves hip hop's face. It doesn't matter if you're

630
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: a new hip hop fan listening to all the new

631
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: styles of production or all the new ship or you're

632
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: an old one. There's something special there that if you

633
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 1: could harness it, And that's what I was hoping to

634
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: try and capture with that with that beat, where it

635
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: was like the eight o eights and the and the

636
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: drums and everything is super modern, but you're gonna I

637
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: want to I we really And that was like untried

638
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: territory for Run the Jewels, Run the Jewels. Making a

639
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: song punk that makes you just smile immediately was felt

640
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: like it was untried territory, like damn Me or a

641
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: party jam. When you hear what we're rapping about. When

642
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: you actually listen to the lyrics, it's pretty hard, like

643
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,959
Speaker 1: it's not you know. It's one of the more meta

644
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: tracks where it has a lot of hip hop references

645
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. I

646
00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: think Mike was like inspired by that feeling, right might

647
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: dropped a few Jay Rue we dropped it was It's

648
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: important to me to tip my hat to those man

649
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: And I just got to say the Jay rule the

650
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: damager homage in a big way to me because you

651
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 1: understand you. I'm in I'm in Spanish class and miss

652
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: Blades class and Ernest Hawkins just to my left, my

653
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: girlfriend Teresa's to my right, and yo, we just three

654
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 1: kids from the South that love music. So Teresa's like,

655
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: you know, slim modelesque little thing, looked like a look

656
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: like a good girl. And she would be fucking rapping

657
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 1: eight Ball and MJG because our brother and Kevin was

658
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: playing it. And I'm like, what the fuck? And then

659
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: I come in and play records for them, and I

660
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: can remember turning Ernest so on the ship like the

661
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: brand Nubian turned them on the far side, but the

662
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,240
Speaker 1: Jay Rud the damaging ship. Me and my man Terrence

663
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: Tflow Too married my cousin. We went crazy over this dude,

664
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: just this dude that putilistic linguistics check out the mistics

665
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: there fantastic and me fantastic. Check it. You'll get to

666
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: ask you challenge my verbal to Nasty Van Acrobatic's vocabulary callistep.

667
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh wow, I probably should practice more.

668
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: I'm spending too much time fucking. So I always wanted

669
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: to give him that, you know what I'm saying, So

670
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: thank you know what's funny? Man? So about about jayru What? Well,

671
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 1: I'll tell you if you don't know the first So

672
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: in the in the nineties, when I was making my

673
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: rep in the scene basically as a rapper, and the

674
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 1: biggest thing that could that could happen for you was

675
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: that you could get on Stretch Arms Trying and Bobato's

676
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: show and you can and they could think that you're

677
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: dope enough to bring you up to freestyle on their show.

678
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: And that was how I made my name, that you know,

679
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 1: sort of at the very beginning of Company Flow. The

680
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 1: first time I was ever invited up there was in

681
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three and Stretch Armstrong asked me what beat

682
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 1: I wanted a freestyle. So the first beat that I

683
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: ever freestyle too was over the come Clean by Jerry

684
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: the Damager. Yeah, boom boom boom was just the nastiest

685
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: thing that anyone had ever heard ever at the time,

686
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 1: and it just made it just made every rapper just

687
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: be like, oh my god, I have to I have

688
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: to have a beat like that. I have to I

689
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: have to be able to fucking rhyme like that. Like

690
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 1: and Jru actually comes to Um comes to max Fish,

691
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: which is a bar that that I owned in New

692
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: York that I called in New York. Jru still comes around.

693
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 1: So he showed love to me. Man. It just I

694
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: was like a fucking goofy ass kid on the other

695
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: side of the internet, just like, oh man, thank you

696
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: man him and God bless the dead dirt dog like

697
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: Oldie be Like I love the wou Tang as a

698
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,439
Speaker 1: collective and individual, so you know how you picked people

699
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: you're patting yourself after, like, um, I want the Crescy

700
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: moaning stall um because drug dealers in my neighborhood. That

701
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 1: was really cool and rap faurn Ward. So it was

702
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,439
Speaker 1: like that's that's me right there. I'm in the woo

703
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: way the truck Jury's ghost facing fluence. But when I

704
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 1: think about the polars in the wolf, the Jessum liquid

705
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: Sore is one of the most coldly calculating, beautiful just

706
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: hip hop the record It is Dean's less and then

707
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: the king of absurdity and wildness, Brooklyn Zoo ode B

708
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: makes this record that's to me a polar opposite of

709
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: but Man that he was one of the greatest influences

710
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: of letting go Me and my two of my children's

711
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: mother would play that. She was a Southern too love music,

712
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 1: But me and Mimi would just play that shit every

713
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: fucking day. So I always wanted to get Dirt Dogs flowers.

714
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 1: I never got a chance to meet the God, but

715
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: I met Ghost, met relationship with Raider. But I'm blessed too.

716
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: But had I been met Dirt Dog Man, I would

717
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 1: I would have just out of bout to him because

718
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: his style was so effeless, so wild, so entertaining. It

719
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: was favored, you know what I'm saying, Like we love

720
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: Favor in Atlanta. Favo can do the same three records

721
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: for the rest of his life. I hire him for

722
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: all my birthday parties. I hire hire for stadiums because

723
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,399
Speaker 1: he is genuinely energy and it's it's the same as Flame.

724
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 1: I don't care how old Flame gets how wow. The

725
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: outfit flavor Flame always gives me an energy that I'm

726
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,439
Speaker 1: mann if I'm gonna levy your avoid game. And Dirt

727
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: I always wanted to give Dirt that, So you know,

728
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: it's the be kind of the beat kind of reminded you,

729
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: I think of of oh baby, I like it's like again,

730
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: I think I think it was because the spirit of

731
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: that beat, it just you know, it brought that out

732
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: in us, and and uh, it was just something that

733
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: you know, Rick, we're always like, like when you're making

734
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: albums and you have a body of work, you're not

735
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 1: when you're like with us, we're not really competing or

736
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: or thinking about it in terms of what are our

737
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: contemporaries doing. We're sort of thinking about it in terms

738
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: of what what have we done? What are what have

739
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: we not mind yet of? That's ours? You know that like,

740
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: And I think it's the reason why we came out

741
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: the first song just Blazing at the Gate, because I'm

742
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 1: round the Jewels. Three. We decided that it would be

743
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: interesting to start with a more contemplative jam, you know,

744
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: and um, once we got that out of our system,

745
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: I think we wanted to do the opposite of that,

746
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: and and and so this jam ooh La Lab it

747
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: was really also that it was also like, yo, let's

748
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 1: let's make a fucking classic hip hop party banger that

749
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 1: translates now that actually translates that, and now it's getting

750
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 1: played on fucking radio like with contemporary shit, which is

751
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: really crazy. And it's just and it's it's a feeling.

752
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: It's a feeling that I don't think you hear on

753
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: the on the radio, much like I don't think that

754
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: that vibe is apart from that song right now, I

755
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: don't think you would hear that vibe any other people's shit. Yeah,

756
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 1: so great, and you got premiere on the track add

757
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 1: too Many And we had to give Greg Nice a

758
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 1: feature credit because it was like we didn't want to

759
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: just we didn't want to just take Greg Nice and

760
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: turn it into something modern. We wanted to bring Greg

761
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: Nice with us. We wanted people to understand who he was,

762
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: even if they didn't get really who his history and

763
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: Runner Jules has been like an amazing excuse for us

764
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: to do right by the people that we admire, you know,

765
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: to try and do right by the people that we admire.

766
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: So when we've been lucky enough to collaborate with heroes

767
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,919
Speaker 1: of our premiere is a hero. Greg Knice is a hero.

768
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: You know. We try and use our platform to really

769
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: honor them. You know, that's what you're supposed to do.

770
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: Like this ship is exposure. Like I think of how

771
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: many like I know Bob James because of rap music.

772
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, I know who it is,

773
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: like if it if it wasn't for Like think about

774
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,479
Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones, man, I fought enough for life because

775
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: they took Muddy Waters on tour. Like you, like you

776
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: think about how dope that is you exposing your audience

777
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: to your influences and great music. Like my thirteen year

778
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: old daughter listen to Twick. Her twenty six year old

779
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: brother listens to Dwick. He's been listening to Dwick since

780
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 1: he was thirteen. But thirteen, she's not supposed to think,

781
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: but her big brother and her dad think her cool.

782
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: But she does because she looked up Greg Nice, you

783
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. She liked his voice. She she's curious,

784
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: so she's on a pathway to discovering dope shit. And

785
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: that's all I ever wanted for rap music. I remember

786
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: when they used to tell us this shit isn't gonna last,

787
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: It isn't gonna be here. It's just like new wave.

788
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: It's gonna come and it is gonna come and go

789
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: time exactly. And it's almost fifty now, and now we

790
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: get to Now we get to do the right thing

791
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: by the people sometimes who the right thing wasn't done

792
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: by you know what I'm saying. And that's why I

793
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: was important for me to have the feature. It was

794
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: important to half form mere actually cut, because these things

795
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: need to become relative. You need to know they're certain

796
00:42:58,200 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: shit that I still don't even know. And I've been

797
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: listening to this shit over half my life now, and

798
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 1: I just know that there's a little dolt producer somewhere

799
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: in the South, somewhere here who's going to get influenced

800
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: by that. He's going to flip that ship and the

801
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 1: world is going to go nuts. And that's the beauty

802
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: of right. Can we just bring up the fact that

803
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: we're talking to a dude who, through hip hop music,

804
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: turned us onto rock music. I mean, none of us

805
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: knew who the fuck Aerosmith was. We didn't know who

806
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: Aerosmith was, man Like, we didn't like, we didn't we

807
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 1: didn't know really probably at that age who led Zeppelin was,

808
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like we learned about this

809
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 1: ship through the beastis we learned about it through run DMC.

810
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: Like this is a gift that you gave our generation,

811
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 1: your your influences combined with something new. It's no different

812
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 1: than what we're you know than even referencing your own

813
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: form of your own genre, but referencing at another time

814
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: of it. You know. And we're very much not interested

815
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: in making retro music. But we know that what our

816
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 1: what our strengths are, man Like, our strengths are not

817
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 1: making the new stuff that people are making. Like like,

818
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,240
Speaker 1: our strengths are that we have a history. Our strengths

819
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 1: are that we have a musical history of influence. And

820
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: so we just tried to really, you know, we just

821
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: tried to like do right by it. You know. It's

822
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 1: one of the things that made the music that we

823
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 1: were making similar to the way you do it, was

824
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: that we always thought of it as a group. It

825
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 1: was always a group. Even even Ella cool J. I

826
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 1: thought of it as Ella Coolj as a group. And

827
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: it's got a particular sound and it's different than pop music.

828
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 1: Pop music. You have a singer and there's a lot

829
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: of different producers. It's always been that way, like a

830
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 1: series of singles put together, but it didn't have a

831
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: point of view, whereas rock groups tended to have a

832
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: point of view where all of it felt like was

833
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,399
Speaker 1: coming from the same place. And again you're you're maybe

834
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 1: the only group doing it now. That that carries on

835
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: that tradition of um the credibility of rock music brought

836
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 1: through hip hop, that's interesting. I'll say the rock tradition,

837
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: the rock tradition. Sure, sure, I feel that because for me,

838
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 1: like even locking In going back to me saying I

839
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: really felt like this was supposed to be when when

840
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 1: we were like, yeah, we're gonna do the one or two,

841
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: it was like we got it four. We're not a

842
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 1: real group till we get four albums in like and

843
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 1: I got that from from from from zeppyln Like, I

844
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 1: got that directly from Zeppelin because there are times in

845
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: my youth where I've played I've just played them, I

846
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 1: just all day, I'm just fucking around and they're just

847
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 1: playing them in my room and it's a dark because

848
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 1: I wanted to rap over the ship I was listening to.

849
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: I wanted to wrap over black sackers like I remember

850
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: when when the Roll Warriors were coming to Rank No No,

851
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: I would be rapping. How'd you jug out like I wanted?

852
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,399
Speaker 1: I wanted that, I remember it. So when you chop

853
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: rocks there, I'm just like a break. I'm this motherfuck

854
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: this is amazing. The authority that that Running d wrapped

855
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: with was, and it was so opposite because my mother

856
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: was sixteen, So rapp was Curtis Blow, you know it was.

857
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,399
Speaker 1: It was who dns. It was gentlemanly, it was slick,

858
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 1: it was player. It was silk shirts and they had

859
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,760
Speaker 1: all you know what I'm saying, the shark skinned pads

860
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:43,720
Speaker 1: with you know, they may have them on some shoes.

861
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: It was some adult shit, even because my mom was older.

862
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: But when that black denim showed up and those motherfuckers

863
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: started jackets accompanied to this dark music that I already

864
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 1: liked with rock and the guitars, I liked it because

865
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: my grandparents listened to blue so I was used to guitar.

866
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 1: But it was totally different. But it felt like it

867
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: was supposed to be. But when I went to like school,

868
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 1: nobody gave a fuck. Did I listen to led Zepeline

869
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: or or our friends Offenhead introduced us to Queen. They

870
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 1: didn't give a shit, but your music gave me that

871
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, so this is what you're supposed

872
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: to do. Was the first punk? Ship was the first

873
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 1: punk Like, like, yo, I just want to say this

874
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,919
Speaker 1: thought real quick before we lose, before I lose it. Yeah,

875
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: rap music is the first form of music, first form

876
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 1: of production, first form of music that I think ever

877
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: where if you were a rap music fan or a

878
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: producer of rap music made you think about, made you

879
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: listen to other music with the idea of this is dope.

880
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: But imagine if this were a fucking beat. Imagine if

881
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 1: this were a rap song but rap music, man, like

882
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: what it made me do throughout my whole life and

883
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: really starting with your whole crew, because your whole crew

884
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,399
Speaker 1: were the first ones that were like, uh no, we're

885
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: not wearing tassels, We're fucking we're killers. We're coming out

886
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,879
Speaker 1: savagely fucking destroytion and we're stripping it down and we are.

887
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: And you know, it was the first like super abrasive,

888
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 1: super aggressive shit to come out that because you you

889
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: had something a playoff, and you had that whole era

890
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 1: that Mike talking about the playoff of and to differentiate

891
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 1: yourself say actually, we're not that, we're the new breed,

892
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 1: like this is stripping all of that away. No more,

893
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 1: mister nice guy shit, you know what I mean? And well,

894
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: we didn't. We didn't like R and B. So that

895
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 1: it was like the distinction between the earliest rap records

896
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: were a continuation of R and B with people rapping

897
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: on them, and we were we weren't. That was not

898
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: our lineage. It was more rock punk, rock, drum machines,

899
00:48:54,680 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: craft work, you know, just different different, uh, different fluences.

900
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 1: So it was more um, the b boy mentality same

901
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 1: and that's the same lineage that I have always had,

902
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: was always like, yo, I'm not actually, I mean, I

903
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: love all of this ship, but my direct influences, it's not.

904
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,280
Speaker 1: It's not sampling soul records. It's not because it's because

905
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: I was interested in other disparate sounds. I was interested

906
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: in other other combining other ship. But it's all respected. Yeah,

907
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: And I'll say also, I would chop up soul records

908
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 1: all day just to make the point. It's like, it's

909
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 1: more like when you think of what R and B

910
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 1: was in the eighties, exactly exactly. That was what we

911
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 1: didn't want. Buddy. What's dope about hip hop to me

912
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 1: is a sicular because the last record I ever bought

913
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,839
Speaker 1: from my grandfather was Buddy Guys Sweet Tea, and I've

914
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 1: grown up listening to Buddy Gut my grandfather and Sweet Tea.

915
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 1: Did it sound like Buddy Guy, But the sound was

916
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: so heavily influenced that he fit right in. It was

917
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 1: more electronic than I had heard. It was almost as

918
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 1: though Porta's head had influenced Buddy. But we know Buddy

919
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 1: got more than likely influenced Portis said and many others

920
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 1: after him. But what the adult shit about rap was?

921
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 1: Growing up with my grandparents, they played the blues, so

922
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,240
Speaker 1: it was either it was either the blues or gospel.

923
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: That's what I was hearing rock music, And the reason

924
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 1: that I realized later why I love Zeppelin so much

925
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 1: was because they were doing their interpretation of what the

926
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 1: blues was. The reason I understood the Stones from the

927
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: first time I heard them is you know, oh my,

928
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: this is like the ship my grandmother listens to. It

929
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: sounds different, but it ends the same spirit. What you

930
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 1: did with rock music was almost bringing the blues home.

931
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: Because because lyrically Rapp is as dark. Sometimes it's the

932
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: Blues without being sad, Like the Blues could say some

933
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 1: some dark things right, you know, but but it not

934
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 1: be sad. I see my grandparents dancing and and my

935
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: other grandma's house, my uncle's an some drink too much

936
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: with me dancing, and people with joy Field. But some

937
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 1: of the songs were like who. Rap was aggressive and

938
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 1: it could hit hard, but it never saddened me. It

939
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 1: made me feel proud, like in the middle of the

940
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: eighties when the world was going crazy to see running

941
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 1: d out amongst the people wrapping their ass off, because

942
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 1: you gotta think I'm in Atlanta doing Atlanta, missing the murder.

943
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,879
Speaker 1: So there literally is a feel that I can leave

944
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: the house at seven years old and I cannot make

945
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 1: it home. And Rap helped me break whatever fear that

946
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: was that I had as a child, that it was

947
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 1: I think, I don't think Wayne Williams gets arrested to

948
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: eighty two eighty two, I'm seven. I'm already walking home

949
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 1: back and forth to the bus stop by myself. I've

950
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: already figured out how to sneak on the Martyr train

951
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: and just go on adventures by myself before I go,

952
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: you know, get back from so I figured shit out,

953
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: but I could have not made it. A Part of

954
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: the confidence that happens in eighty two, eighty three, eighty

955
00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 1: four is that music changes for me, Like like I say, man,

956
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: when I've seen the Fat Boys, when I seen Rue DMC,

957
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 1: when I seen Cool J, when I was like, this

958
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 1: isn't this isn't what my mom's listening to. This shit

959
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: makes me pulp my chests out, you know what I mean.

960
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: And it's it's like the Blues came Home, you know,

961
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 1: and and it just it It's it's crazy how things

962
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 1: seem secular like that because I know that Crump music

963
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 1: there literally was a rock movement in Atlanta for like

964
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: nine months to a year and a half and it's amazing. Yeah,

965
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 1: music it relates to It relates back to Lula Lah

966
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: because like it's like I said, we're not saying soft

967
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: shit on that record, but not saying party shit. You know,

968
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,800
Speaker 1: I I'm I'm saying fucking you know, you're suffering a scrumptures,

969
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: so put your you know, they'll put your kids in

970
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:44,399
Speaker 1: the oven. Like this is not if you really look

971
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: at the lyrics that we're spitting. It's something. It's some

972
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: it's some almodamn near you know, militant shit at times,

973
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 1: and it's certainly some paranoid shit at times. But I

974
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 1: think that there's something about truth that is funky and

975
00:52:57,920 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: fun even if truth is hard, you know what I mean,

976
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: Truth brings joy. Truth doesn't have to be soft, and

977
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 1: joy doesn't have to be soft either. Like joy is

978
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 1: a result, it's not a sound. You know. Um, if

979
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,760
Speaker 1: you can create a record that creates joy, it didn't

980
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,320
Speaker 1: mean that you just made something that sounded happy, you know,

981
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 1: it just meant that the result was joy, you know.

982
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 1: And and it's and often the lyrics will be hard.

983
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 1: It doesn't leave you with a heavy feeling. It's and

984
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: it's usually in the context of the things around it.

985
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: You know, you'll be the hardest lyric and then four

986
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,359
Speaker 1: bars later it's a joke, you know, and it's all good.

987
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: You know, it's like it's hip hop. It's really all

988
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: hip hop. No, no, thank you for saying that, because

989
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 1: that's something that we like, really take. We hold that importantly,

990
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 1: you know, we really hold like we hold the we

991
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 1: hold the jokes in just as high regard as we

992
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 1: hold those moments of real seriousness straight up, And I

993
00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 1: think it's more the ability to get serious message over

994
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,880
Speaker 1: in a way that people can take. It often involves

995
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: that because if, if all, if you feel like a

996
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 1: record is just lecturing at you and telling you what

997
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 1: to do, people don't want to be sermonized. No, you know,

998
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: doesn't work like that. That's why I always hate when

999
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: people go into the there's entertainment and whether I ju

1000
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: personally lyrically, But the goal is to be the hardest

1001
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,800
Speaker 1: motherfucker on the v That's that's that's you know, you know,

1002
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 1: I'm saying, you've learned what they call a twist and

1003
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: turns after But the goal, if your gym is is

1004
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: to outflip the fuck out of everybody and look great

1005
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 1: doing it. So on a raw artistic level, you know

1006
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, that's what it's this shit is about.

1007
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 1: And I don't I'm careful or I'm safe and run

1008
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: the jewels and that that's not allowed to happen. Sorry,

1009
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 1: we're still getting this fucking Joe far. It's one of

1010
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 1: the things about about protest songs. If you're if you're

1011
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 1: aiming to make a protest song, it usually fails. Yes,

1012
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:07,280
Speaker 1: the best protest songs were people singing about their internal struggle,

1013
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:12,320
Speaker 1: and then those songs become turned into protest songs. But

1014
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: rarely are they written from that perspective, because if you

1015
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: write it from that perspective, it doesn't really break through.

1016
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 1: It doesn't doesn't have the energy to transcend. Like you

1017
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: don't want to be and you don't want to be um.

1018
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: You don't want to be told and never do drugs

1019
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 1: by someone who's never done drugs. You want to You

1020
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 1: want to hear that shift from somebody who did drugs

1021
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,439
Speaker 1: all their life and now they can barely fucking talk.

1022
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: That's someone I'll listen to, you know, like, oh you're interesting,

1023
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:41,439
Speaker 1: you know. But and even even then, even then, though

1024
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: I don't want them telling me what to do, I

1025
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 1: don't mind hearing there. I'm happy to hear their story

1026
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 1: and maybe I can learn from it. But I want

1027
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 1: to make up my own mind correct and the right.

1028
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 1: And most of those motherfuckers they won't tell you shit

1029
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 1: because they know it's more complicated than that, you know,

1030
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 1: they know that it's not that easy. They know that

1031
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,839
Speaker 1: it's not just about do the right here's the clear

1032
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,479
Speaker 1: cut right thing. Because anybody who's been through some shit

1033
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 1: knows the nuance of being through some shit, and they

1034
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 1: know that they were unreachable by anybody with piety. Piety

1035
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: does not reach your soul, It does not reach your heart.

1036
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: It doesn't really mean anything to anybody who's got any

1037
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 1: grit or who's got any issues that they're dealing with.

1038
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 1: It's the reaction you're gonna get from that is, fuck you, motherfucker.

1039
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 1: Don't tell me what the fuck to do. You don't

1040
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 1: know me, stop fucking lecturing me. And that is the

1041
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:31,359
Speaker 1: exact opposite of what me and Mike would ever want

1042
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,440
Speaker 1: to be for anybody, you know. And this record that

1043
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 1: we made is not a protest album in creation it was.

1044
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,399
Speaker 1: It's just an album of two dudes talking their ship

1045
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,319
Speaker 1: and saying what they need to say. But this shit

1046
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 1: landed in the middle of a protest time, and so

1047
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 1: all of those sentiments that we were already already in

1048
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 1: our hearts and in our minds and naturally came out

1049
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 1: not in the way that we wanted to, you know,

1050
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: react to something. We're reacting to life like shit that's

1051
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: already been here, and it landed at a time that

1052
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: resonated with people. And I think that the reason why

1053
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 1: it did is because we're not we're not lecturing motherfucker's

1054
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: we're we're we're painting pictures where we're you know, we're flawed.

1055
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 1: These are anti heroes, these are not these are not

1056
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 1: princes of of of righteousness and goodness. We're we're fucked up,

1057
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 1: you know. Like I think that's what makes it probably

1058
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: the most successful protest music being made today for that

1059
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 1: for exactly that reason. It's coming from a spirit of

1060
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: reality and not a spirit of telling people what to

1061
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: do right or what to think or how to be right.

1062
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:39,439
Speaker 1: We'll be right back with Killer Mike and LP. After

1063
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 1: a quick break, we're back with the rest of Rick's

1064
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: conversation with Round the Jewels. Something else that's interesting about

1065
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 1: the timing of your album and the content on it

1066
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: is in the history of music that has a political

1067
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 1: side to it, Like if we think in nineteen sixty nine,

1068
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 1: John Lennon wrote give piece a chance, and put out

1069
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: and give Piece a chance. That was in nineteen sixty nine.

1070
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 1: No one has given piece a chance since nineteen sixty nine.

1071
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 1: It did not happen. You had you have lyrics about

1072
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: slave owners, pictures on bills and simultaneously we see statues

1073
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 1: being pulled down of these slaveholders. That's unbelievable. Shout out

1074
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 1: to Farrell and the and the reason, and shout out

1075
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 1: to you because the reason why he's on our record

1076
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: is because we were in your studio and you had

1077
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 1: him over. It is surreal. I'm not gonna lie. It

1078
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 1: is surreal. And you know you were there, man, you

1079
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 1: saw us making his music. None of this ship was

1080
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 1: going on like this. It wasn't. It wasn't in the

1081
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: public consciousness at all. I mean, you know, not at all.

1082
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's crazy. Let's let's talk more about that track.

1083
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 1: About the track with Farrell? How did I understand you

1084
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 1: met him at the studio and then how to come

1085
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: together When he left the studio, he was like, let

1086
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: me know if you need anything. And we had that,

1087
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 1: we had that beat, we had, we actually had the verses.

1088
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: We just didn't have a hook. I think as soon

1089
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:18,479
Speaker 1: as soon as we recognize that we didn't have a hook,

1090
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 1: it was was very very soon after Farrell had been like,

1091
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 1: let let me know if you need anything, and I

1092
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 1: think it was just really obvious to us. We were like,

1093
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: let's let's take him up on that. Let's see what

1094
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 1: he'll do, because he's a genius. I mean, he's like

1095
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 1: we knew that he would write something great, and we

1096
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 1: had no idea what it would be, no idea it

1097
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: could have been. He could have been saying a word,

1098
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 1: he could have just repeated a word, and it probably

1099
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 1: would have been just fucking dope. I give you know,

1100
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 1: I give I give him so much respect because I

1101
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 1: was blown I'm blown away when people are generous with

1102
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 1: their with their artistic shit, when they don't have to be,

1103
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: you know, someone in f us position. He could have

1104
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 1: given us pretty much anything, and we would have thought

1105
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: it was the ship. It didn't have to be really

1106
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: connecting to what we were saying. But he clearly really

1107
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 1: listened to what we were saying, and he connected it

1108
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 1: in a way that I don't think that we even

1109
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 1: knew it could be connected. You know, he wrote that

1110
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 1: hook and and it was not the We didn't know

1111
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:21,439
Speaker 1: which Farrell we were going to be getting. We didn't

1112
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: know which side of him we were going to be getting.

1113
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 1: When we heard that ship, we were like, oh, Pharrell

1114
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 1: came into our world and and and stood up in

1115
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,680
Speaker 1: it and that's and that was a huge honor to

1116
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 1: you know, in my mind was like wow, man, like

1117
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 1: we're really work, you know, to Mark. In our minds,

1118
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 1: we're still just these underground dudes, you know what I mean,

1119
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 1: Like we're still in that world. We were there our

1120
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 1: whole careers incredible. And when did Zach get on, he

1121
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 1: got on quick. There were two songs that I played Zach.

1122
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 1: This is before we had two chains locked in, so

1123
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: I played him two jams. We had the one jam

1124
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 1: that and it didn't make it to the album because

1125
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: of because of sample parents issues, and we had just

1126
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 1: and I played him both of those and the other

1127
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 1: one was a lot more straightforward. It was a lot

1128
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 1: more sort of mid tempo. It was a little bit

1129
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 1: it was probably and Zach reacted to that one, I

1130
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: think kind of on some shit like that's a normal

1131
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 1: pocket for me. I could get in there and kill that.

1132
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 1: And I pushed him to do the just thing because

1133
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 1: it was more of a double time, more of a

1134
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: modern like Bob. And I don't think anyone has ever

1135
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 1: heard Zach on something like that. I know that, and

1136
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 1: he rose to the challenge because I was just kind

1137
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 1: of like, no, I think you should I think that

1138
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 1: that would be obvious, you know, I think you should

1139
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 1: try this one. He was on Run the Jewels two

1140
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 1: and Run the Jewels three. This will be the third

1141
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 1: album of ours that you're on. You're basically the unofficial

1142
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: member of Run the Jewels. So he sent me that

1143
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 1: verse and he kind of presented to me like it

1144
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:59,400
Speaker 1: was just a demo, and he did the verse with

1145
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 1: just an SM fifty eight, just handheld, like in his

1146
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 1: home studio, and you can hear it. It's all sort

1147
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 1: of distorted. It's got that it's got that sound. And

1148
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, cool, So so what are

1149
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 1: you gonna do? You're gonna rerecord it? Then I'm like,

1150
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 1: you know, a better mic or whatever, and he was

1151
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 1: like he was like oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So

1152
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 1: like a couple of days later, he was like, so,

1153
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 1: so what kind of MIC do you think I should get?

1154
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, what do you mean?

1155
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: And he was like, well, you said you wanted me

1156
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 1: to do it on a different, better mic or whatever.

1157
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 1: He was like, so what kind of MIC should I buy?

1158
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 1: And I was like you don't. You don't have another MIC?

1159
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 1: And he was like nah. I was like, wait a second,

1160
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 1: he was like, I was like, so he used an

1161
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: SM fifty eight, a stage mic, not even at this

1162
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 1: point the stage MIC's that we're using a stage mic

1163
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 1: for that every band in America uses, no matter how

1164
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 1: small or big they are. And he told me, he

1165
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 1: was like, this is what I recorded and you probably noticed,

1166
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 1: but this is how I recorded every single Rage against

1167
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 1: the Machine song with the handheld SM fifty eight. And

1168
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 1: so what was a demo to me? Which because at

1169
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 1: first it was a demo because it was like sounded distorted,

1170
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 1: and he presented it kind of like a demo like

1171
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: you know, hey, I'm just what do you think I

1172
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 1: could you know, ended up being the final verse. I

1173
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 1: was like, well, I'm not going to argue. If you

1174
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 1: did Rage against the Machine on that mic, then that's

1175
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: about as pure as zach de la Rocha as you

1176
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 1: can get, and I'm not gonna fucking I'm not gonna

1177
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 1: fuck that up. So it was like it just ended

1178
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 1: up being that first take that he did ended up

1179
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 1: being the you know, the final verse, and that's why

1180
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 1: it sounds differently. I didn't treat it different. I didn't

1181
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 1: treat the sound. It was just like distorted. Yeah, you said,

1182
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 1: there was another track that had a sample problem. Have

1183
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: you had to deal with sample problems often historically? Nah,

1184
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 1: that was the first time that we had had something

1185
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 1: this that really that really like ended up throwing us

1186
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 1: off at first. It was sort of a sixties rock

1187
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 1: sort of thing anyway, So what happened was we did

1188
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 1: the song. We loved it. It was really it was like,

1189
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:13,439
Speaker 1: really like, we just said, fuck it, we're gonna really

1190
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 1: make this song. We're gonna loop it up, we're gonna

1191
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 1: chop it up for the bea, we're gonna use the hook,

1192
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:21,080
Speaker 1: We're gonna like, you know, we're gonna do this because

1193
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 1: we've never done this before. And we and we stepped

1194
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 1: to them and they were they were like, yeah, we're

1195
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:27,840
Speaker 1: cool with it. They listened to it, they were like, yeah,

1196
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:30,520
Speaker 1: we're cool with it. Then they said, but we want

1197
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 1: one hundred percent of everything. We want one hundred percent

1198
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 1: of the publishing, we want one hundred percent of the

1199
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 1: master and me and Mike said, but please, can we

1200
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: maybe have something because obviously it's not one hundred percent

1201
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 1: because we're on and they were like, nope, that's the deal.

1202
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 1: And we were like, all right, fine, fuck it, that's

1203
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 1: the deal, then that's what you get. We wanted it,

1204
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 1: they said, cool. We mixed it, we mastered the album,

1205
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 1: and when we were getting all the final little details

1206
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 1: and contracts and everything and getting ready to submit the record,

1207
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 1: they had kind of disappeared. So we started to get

1208
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 1: a little nervous and we hit them up and bind

1209
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 1: you literally about the hand in the record and get

1210
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 1: the get the second half of the advance so that

1211
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 1: we can eat. And you know, they changed their mind.

1212
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 1: They changed their mind. I just said, they changed their mind,

1213
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 1: then I want I want you to do and we

1214
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:24,440
Speaker 1: were going to give them a one hundred percent. So

1215
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:26,760
Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I don't. I'm not mad at

1216
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 1: anyone about that, but that was the first but it

1217
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 1: was like shit, so we ended up having to rework.

1218
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:32,680
Speaker 1: It was either we were going to throw the whole

1219
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 1: song away or we were going to find something that

1220
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 1: So we threw it away and we came up with

1221
01:05:38,120 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: another record that was another fucking amazing And that's the

1222
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 1: beauty of tragedy. Yeah, and for bands that are out there,

1223
01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 1: rap groups there there, I've seen outcasts. Um tell me

1224
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:52,200
Speaker 1: why they never got into sand And I was like

1225
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:58,440
Speaker 1: why because Curtis Mayfield mentored them early and he told them, essentially,

1226
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 1: you can create y'all. VIAB can be inspired by shit,

1227
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 1: and I think that we've always trusted ourselves to do that.

1228
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 1: LL get inspired and do amazing shit, but you know,

1229
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:11,160
Speaker 1: you try. Sometimes sampling is dope, and when the other

1230
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 1: artists is like fuck it, fuck it, try to chuck

1231
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 1: the whole shit and make yourself do it over. So

1232
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:19,080
Speaker 1: we had to take a master the album, go back

1233
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 1: after having chucked the record and put it in. And

1234
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 1: for us, my fear at first was, man, am I

1235
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 1: going to not like my album as much as I

1236
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 1: liked my album because it's missing the record that that

1237
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:35,800
Speaker 1: I had? But it's not because the record that we

1238
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 1: created became its own special things. So I appreciate the

1239
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 1: challenge and I appreciate getting the turned down because it

1240
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 1: forced us to It forced us to man up, and

1241
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 1: you know, tell me about let's talk about the lyrics

1242
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 1: for Walking in the Snow, how they come about. I

1243
01:06:55,760 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 1: started it and I was really pissed off that day

1244
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 1: because I was I was feeling very I was feeling

1245
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 1: very angry about the fucking wide spread hypocrisy of like

1246
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 1: institutional hypocrisy. You know, I was feeling very fucking annoyed

1247
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:21,800
Speaker 1: and pissed off philosophically. But two groups of people. The

1248
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 1: first group of people was the type of person who,

1249
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:28,560
Speaker 1: because they're not connected to the suffering of other people,

1250
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 1: allow authoritarianism to rise under the guise of because they

1251
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 1: simply just don't connect to the emotional aspect of other

1252
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 1: people suffering. And so I wanted to write something that

1253
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 1: challenged the logic of that, and that said, hey, listen,

1254
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:52,760
Speaker 1: even if you don't care about other people that don't

1255
01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:55,880
Speaker 1: look like you or that aren't in your community, even

1256
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: if you can't muster up the empathy to connect other

1257
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:05,960
Speaker 1: human suffering to the collective human suffering, let me appeal

1258
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 1: to your logic and say how fucking stupid it is

1259
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 1: for you to allow concentration camps to be built in

1260
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:18,760
Speaker 1: America because you don't care about the people that are

1261
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 1: being put in them. And let me point out to

1262
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:24,680
Speaker 1: you the fallacy of it, which is that do you

1263
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 1: think that once that group of people that you don't

1264
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:33,680
Speaker 1: care about is gone, that those concentration camps get dismantled

1265
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:39,120
Speaker 1: and everyone throws a party. No, you have aided and

1266
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 1: been complicit in the creation of a death machine that

1267
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 1: must then be fueled and continue. And the next further

1268
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:50,800
Speaker 1: down on the next person down on the totem pole,

1269
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:54,080
Speaker 1: the next group down on the totem pole gets the cage,

1270
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 1: and that's probably going to be you if you're poor.

1271
01:08:57,400 --> 01:08:59,640
Speaker 1: And I needed to say that it was something I

1272
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 1: was screaming, and the other and the other thing I

1273
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 1: needed to say as a non religious person and as

1274
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 1: someone who didn't grow up when any dog more, didn't

1275
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:10,000
Speaker 1: grow up going to church or anything like that, but

1276
01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:14,840
Speaker 1: considers themself somewhat spiritual and also admire certain tenants and

1277
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:18,760
Speaker 1: aspects of different like you know, different religions, and take

1278
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:21,479
Speaker 1: and take from them sort of things that you know,

1279
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 1: that's feel inspiring to me. One of the things that

1280
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:29,720
Speaker 1: I find incredibly difficult to reckon with is the the

1281
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:34,640
Speaker 1: hypocrisy of the so called religious movement in America that

1282
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 1: somehow manages to qualify exceptions for their for the very

1283
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:44,519
Speaker 1: tenants that they say that they are pacing your life amount.

1284
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:47,719
Speaker 1: In other words, that should not kill unless it's somebody

1285
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 1: that I don't deem worthy of having life, you know,

1286
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 1: I wanted to challenge the idea that of this sort

1287
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 1: of insipid, poisonous version of Christianity that has risen in

1288
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 1: America hand in hand and with nationalism. In other words,

1289
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:08,880
Speaker 1: the idea that Jesus and his teachings and nationalism can

1290
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:12,320
Speaker 1: ever share the same space and share the same you know,

1291
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 1: ideology in any way, and question the idea. Ask someone

1292
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 1: who's not even of your group and say, hey, did

1293
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:23,839
Speaker 1: you ever occur to you that you may not actually

1294
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:29,479
Speaker 1: be Christian? You know, if you are genuinely motivated and

1295
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:33,600
Speaker 1: have focused your life around the what you say you have,

1296
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:36,160
Speaker 1: which is which is what you read in a book

1297
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 1: about the teachings of Jesus Christ, which I'm familiar with,

1298
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 1: it seems like there's a bit of a class here

1299
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 1: between those teachings and what you are, what you have

1300
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:52,720
Speaker 1: accepted going on. And I think you're a fucking hypocrite.

1301
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:56,120
Speaker 1: And I think that if one scrap of what you

1302
01:10:57,000 --> 01:11:01,600
Speaker 1: purport to live your life as a guideline connected with

1303
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:04,080
Speaker 1: you in a real way, you would be a completely

1304
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:07,800
Speaker 1: different person. And you wouldn't allow that, You wouldn't allow

1305
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 1: this to happen. And that's just something that I just

1306
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:14,000
Speaker 1: personally felt like it's been. It was brewing in me,

1307
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:16,560
Speaker 1: and I needed some space. I needed to say it,

1308
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:18,400
Speaker 1: and I needed to get you know, I needed to

1309
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:20,920
Speaker 1: get at it in a very clear like I'm going

1310
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 1: to fight you with some logic here. If you can

1311
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:25,360
Speaker 1: fight back with my logic, let me know. But I

1312
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:27,560
Speaker 1: think I've just I think I'm going to dismantle you

1313
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:31,160
Speaker 1: with this, and someone has to say it, and you know,

1314
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 1: and then I and then basically I passed it off

1315
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 1: to Mike, and Mike wrote one of the most devastatingly

1316
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 1: beautiful and poignant and also from a different perspective, and

1317
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 1: then looped it back around to what I had set

1318
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:46,599
Speaker 1: up in the front about Christianity. So you know, I'll

1319
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:51,320
Speaker 1: let Mike before Mike one more question before before we

1320
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 1: get to the continuation. Was there a triggering event that

1321
01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:59,840
Speaker 1: got you started on the song? Was there one moment.

1322
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:03,680
Speaker 1: I can't say that I remember exactly what what what

1323
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:06,559
Speaker 1: got me started on it, except to say that if

1324
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:10,880
Speaker 1: you're on fucking social media and you see the the

1325
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:15,719
Speaker 1: sort of the mind numbingly hypocritical group think that people

1326
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:20,360
Speaker 1: are taking, that people are activated in, and the excuses

1327
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:23,560
Speaker 1: that people are making for having a low or questionable

1328
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:26,880
Speaker 1: moral code, and the things that they're associating with. It'll

1329
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 1: drive you fucking crazy and you want to scream to

1330
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:31,120
Speaker 1: the world, but you know what, you know what doesn't

1331
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:35,240
Speaker 1: do anything fucking pointing it out on Twitter. So I

1332
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:38,360
Speaker 1: think I think that I was just disgusted in general

1333
01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:41,320
Speaker 1: with with with all that shit, and it had bubbled

1334
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 1: up at me and I just needed to write about it.

1335
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:46,320
Speaker 1: I just needed to write about it. Great. So Mike,

1336
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 1: you heard what L wrote and then what was tell

1337
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:54,759
Speaker 1: me what happened? Alliance incredible first of all, and he calls,

1338
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 1: you know, the nationalism or the fascism that's coming in

1339
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:01,840
Speaker 1: our country is one of white angles accent protestant Um

1340
01:13:02,439 --> 01:13:07,360
Speaker 1: nationalism served with a big keeping marriage to constitution and

1341
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 1: vival and you know it's going to be usher in

1342
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 1: that way. And he called culturally like his people to

1343
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:19,280
Speaker 1: task on that right. So if you if you look

1344
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:21,280
Speaker 1: at it, that's true. I was. I was talking to

1345
01:13:21,320 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 1: white people, by the way, as absolutely absolutely to us.

1346
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 1: But white people have the option of tuning out the

1347
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:34,639
Speaker 1: ranting white cousin. They do it a lot. There's always

1348
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:36,759
Speaker 1: that one or two white cousins that's in the family.

1349
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:41,760
Speaker 1: Like you say, nigger and joke it's wrong, uncle, you

1350
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:44,200
Speaker 1: shouldn't do this, and then the whole family's like, well,

1351
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:46,519
Speaker 1: why did you have to say something? You ruined the day.

1352
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:48,879
Speaker 1: But they're simply the one to say, you know, morally,

1353
01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 1: that's just you know, it's it's we shouldn't be doing

1354
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:54,000
Speaker 1: this funck shit or you know what I'm saying, and

1355
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 1: that verse you could. But my determination, or a lot

1356
01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:02,480
Speaker 1: of times my balance in this group is to personalize

1357
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 1: it so that you can. So I'm also talking to

1358
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:08,680
Speaker 1: white people when I'm telling them, you're usually freest from

1359
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 1: this age, from this preschool age. It is usual when

1360
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:15,559
Speaker 1: you're free, and then you're programmed to view poor people

1361
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:18,320
Speaker 1: in this way. Your father and mom did this because

1362
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:20,479
Speaker 1: they worked their ass off. It had nothing to do

1363
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:24,000
Speaker 1: with the fact that your grandparents left them houses which

1364
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:27,719
Speaker 1: they could sell start to build wealth, while the black

1365
01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:31,640
Speaker 1: kid in your class grandparents never owned homes because of redlining,

1366
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:35,280
Speaker 1: or homes are underappreciated purposely by developers so they could

1367
01:14:35,280 --> 01:14:38,840
Speaker 1: buy them twenty years later and put stadiums there. You

1368
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. So you, in your mind of contexts,

1369
01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:46,200
Speaker 1: has always been fair. You're robbed of an opportunity to

1370
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:49,880
Speaker 1: see the Confederacy per se as a treason, this act

1371
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:52,840
Speaker 1: done to break up a country, because it's always taught

1372
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:55,439
Speaker 1: to you as the war of Northern aggression and not

1373
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:57,800
Speaker 1: the war of a failed secession, you know what I mean.

1374
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:01,320
Speaker 1: So they have this luxury. But then I literally pulled

1375
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:04,640
Speaker 1: them and tell them you have become so apathetic. Television

1376
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 1: is feeding you the narrative of Everything's okay. It's them

1377
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 1: that you've become so apathetic. You literally watched for eight

1378
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:16,800
Speaker 1: minutes and forty six sepons as I die, That's what.

1379
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:19,960
Speaker 1: And it's replaced your empathy with the apathe And now

1380
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:23,240
Speaker 1: what I'm telling you is just like Altian. It's interesting

1381
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:25,720
Speaker 1: because Al asked me about the Chompskin of Bukowski thing

1382
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:28,639
Speaker 1: because they're not in the same value, and I was like, yeah,

1383
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:31,840
Speaker 1: of course I read both. One gives a fuck, seize

1384
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:34,600
Speaker 1: it for what it is as an anarchist and attempts

1385
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:38,320
Speaker 1: to wake you up. The other seize it for what

1386
01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 1: it is, chooses to indulge in nothingness, beautiful writing, women,

1387
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:46,679
Speaker 1: and alcohol. I am both those human beings and one

1388
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:50,880
Speaker 1: person rapping, and I think Al got it once. I

1389
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:53,479
Speaker 1: was like yeah, of course. But because I wasn't coming

1390
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:56,639
Speaker 1: from the militaristic Chomsky. I wasn't coming from the fuck

1391
01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:58,720
Speaker 1: at all. I'm ignored all. I was coming from a

1392
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:02,080
Speaker 1: place of I understand saying vote. I get it, you know,

1393
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:04,439
Speaker 1: I get why one of the Jews records so our

1394
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:07,280
Speaker 1: seventy five percent, I'm wrapping my ass off punching there's

1395
01:16:07,320 --> 01:16:09,720
Speaker 1: twenty five percent of I have to show you this raw,

1396
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:12,320
Speaker 1: beautiful humanity. So I had to give them that. So

1397
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:14,479
Speaker 1: no matter where in the spectrum they were on whiteness,

1398
01:16:14,479 --> 01:16:17,160
Speaker 1: whether they was a raving lunatic cousin at the end

1399
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 1: of the table or Uncle Bob said, everyone is covered

1400
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:23,840
Speaker 1: in saying I get it. But besides me getting it,

1401
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:27,519
Speaker 1: I have to help you understand that did Gregor got

1402
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:30,360
Speaker 1: this shit for fifty years before me? And I was

1403
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:32,640
Speaker 1: blessed the last three years. This is where I personalized it,

1404
01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:34,760
Speaker 1: because I said earlier, I ended up in wickedly so

1405
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:36,600
Speaker 1: and that's scared the shit out of me. Popping up

1406
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:40,000
Speaker 1: in Hillary's playing email scared the fucking shit out of me.

1407
01:16:40,200 --> 01:16:42,040
Speaker 1: And it was right around the time when my wife

1408
01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:44,880
Speaker 1: really did tell me after her friends were like, you know, dude,

1409
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:46,840
Speaker 1: like he's like mathmixed march. She said, I need a

1410
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:49,639
Speaker 1: husband more than the world needs a martyr. She really

1411
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:52,080
Speaker 1: said those words to me. I may over publishing. We'll

1412
01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:54,439
Speaker 1: see if we ever get divorced to make them after everything,

1413
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:58,720
Speaker 1: but I needed to understand the things that he helped

1414
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 1: me understanding his last three years of life, and what

1415
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:04,720
Speaker 1: he really helped me understand more than anything is begond race,

1416
01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:08,800
Speaker 1: beyond ethnicity, beyond what we consider class and culturing, all

1417
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:11,439
Speaker 1: these things that are differences us. There is the state

1418
01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:16,280
Speaker 1: and there is us. And the state will kill you,

1419
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:20,120
Speaker 1: just like they killed Martin, just like they killed Malcolm,

1420
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:23,719
Speaker 1: just like they were culpable in the murder of Patrice Lament.

1421
01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:27,759
Speaker 1: But just like they've raised the price of Assila Shafer's

1422
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 1: bounty under a black president, the state does that. And

1423
01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:35,760
Speaker 1: I needed people to understand. Fuck the line that you

1424
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:38,080
Speaker 1: impressed by about that, I can't breathe because they triggered

1425
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 1: you in the moment. After this moment, the state will

1426
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:45,840
Speaker 1: still murder you. They murdered your messiah. They're going to

1427
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 1: murder whoever is poor after they murder us. And until

1428
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:53,120
Speaker 1: you understand that in that moment, then everything just happens

1429
01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:56,600
Speaker 1: again again again, and the crazy cousin Rance and his

1430
01:17:56,720 --> 01:17:59,400
Speaker 1: black friend is like, thanks for inviting me over. I

1431
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:03,439
Speaker 1: love that. Mike's like I took a whole verse to

1432
01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:08,400
Speaker 1: challenge the logic of nationalism and versus versus being, you know,

1433
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 1: following the tenets of of of Christianity, or whereas Mike

1434
01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:16,280
Speaker 1: handily dismantled the whole thing in one line and it

1435
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:19,439
Speaker 1: was beautiful because it was like, you know, the song

1436
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:21,479
Speaker 1: needed that too, the song it needed it needed to

1437
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:24,759
Speaker 1: be like and here's a summary in one fucking line

1438
01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:30,599
Speaker 1: of why any allegiance, any any any principles that are

1439
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:36,160
Speaker 1: that are allegiance to nationalism or the state are incorrect,

1440
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:41,280
Speaker 1: are absolute? Is an absolute fallacy like and if you

1441
01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:46,200
Speaker 1: need any example of that, fundamentally, the very person that you,

1442
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:51,320
Speaker 1: frankly are pretending to help you know whose principles you're

1443
01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:54,360
Speaker 1: pretending guide your life, he was murdered by the same

1444
01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:58,560
Speaker 1: fucking people that you are now showing blind allegiance to go.

1445
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:01,280
Speaker 1: So where does so? So how is it that you

1446
01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:05,519
Speaker 1: managed to find the fucking loophole in your fucking house?

1447
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:08,680
Speaker 1: How did you manage to find the one loophole that

1448
01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:11,479
Speaker 1: allowed you to exist in two spaces at one time.

1449
01:19:11,920 --> 01:19:15,120
Speaker 1: I believe in Jesus Christ and all of the tenants

1450
01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:19,000
Speaker 1: of Jesus Christ, and I'm a Christian and also don't

1451
01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:22,880
Speaker 1: challenge the state. That doesn't make any fucking In fact,

1452
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:26,160
Speaker 1: you make Jesus a hood ornament for the state, right,

1453
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 1: And that's that's the scary part. Yeah, it's terrifying. Tell me,

1454
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:33,840
Speaker 1: tell me more about Dick Gregory. Did you how did you?

1455
01:19:34,160 --> 01:19:36,640
Speaker 1: How did you do? That? Was my man? What the

1456
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:39,120
Speaker 1: fuck are you talking about? Let me tell you. Tell me.

1457
01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:42,120
Speaker 1: I get a call one day, Hey kill them, Mike,

1458
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:46,360
Speaker 1: what's up? Man? I get two ticks. Actually, Dick Gregory's

1459
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:50,879
Speaker 1: in town. Um, I'm a Dick Gregory staying and fan already.

1460
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:54,599
Speaker 1: Because my grandmother, my dad's my paternal grandmother. She would

1461
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:58,320
Speaker 1: let me my maternal grandmother that raised me, you know,

1462
01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:00,760
Speaker 1: after her blues face, she went straight to the church

1463
01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:04,280
Speaker 1: and it was just Jesus. It was Jesus around the

1464
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:07,320
Speaker 1: clock around our career. So my other grandma's house, I

1465
01:20:07,479 --> 01:20:10,040
Speaker 1: got a chance to listen to like Red Fox Records

1466
01:20:10,320 --> 01:20:13,360
Speaker 1: and Richard Pryor records, and you know, you start with

1467
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:15,639
Speaker 1: prior because that's the biggest guy in the world when

1468
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:18,400
Speaker 1: you're young. And then so I started going back and

1469
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 1: you go find you know, you find Dick Gregory's records.

1470
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:26,200
Speaker 1: And I was a kid that would read the encyclopedia

1471
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:29,000
Speaker 1: like I was naturally curious, and I wanted to be smart,

1472
01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:33,320
Speaker 1: and his stuff was sharp and smart. And then, you know,

1473
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:35,760
Speaker 1: I don't know how, I don't I don't know how.

1474
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:39,000
Speaker 1: I was doing the VCR era. My grandpa got like

1475
01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:42,040
Speaker 1: some old black and white stuff from him, and Red

1476
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:44,120
Speaker 1: Fox was on some of them. You know. It was

1477
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:46,240
Speaker 1: just like when they put four different comedians on one

1478
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:48,960
Speaker 1: tape and that type stuff. And so I was into it.

1479
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:50,640
Speaker 1: So I went out and I met him at one

1480
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:53,080
Speaker 1: of the shows that he came out here bought a book.

1481
01:20:54,360 --> 01:20:56,120
Speaker 1: I met him after that when I went to the show.

1482
01:20:56,160 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 1: But I got to sit with him and talk with him.

1483
01:20:58,240 --> 01:21:00,160
Speaker 1: But before we got the chance to do that, we

1484
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:03,320
Speaker 1: had to get on the phone with him, and he

1485
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:07,120
Speaker 1: was me and Ti. We had just met him officially

1486
01:21:07,160 --> 01:21:10,559
Speaker 1: on the phone, and we were asking him what methods

1487
01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:14,040
Speaker 1: should we take of using our celebrity to help you

1488
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:16,960
Speaker 1: know the world. And we named a bunch of shit

1489
01:21:17,080 --> 01:21:19,600
Speaker 1: that had already been done, And at one point t

1490
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:23,400
Speaker 1: I says March, and he curses us the fuck out

1491
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:28,080
Speaker 1: for like forty five minutes March on March for nigga,

1492
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:30,439
Speaker 1: They're just gonna tell you you're gonna March the seven

1493
01:21:30,439 --> 01:21:32,519
Speaker 1: o'clock and if you ask out that seven fire, the

1494
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:35,439
Speaker 1: gonna come fuck you up. And I'm just like, what

1495
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 1: the fuck Like he's cursing us out. Tip After about

1496
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:42,120
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes from the caves up could Tip calls me

1497
01:21:42,240 --> 01:21:45,000
Speaker 1: after the rant like, man, my fall dropped, like you're

1498
01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:48,360
Speaker 1: a goddamn live You're falling fucking dropped. But in the

1499
01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:51,479
Speaker 1: curse out, it was such love and a want for

1500
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:53,880
Speaker 1: us to It was again I'm raised my grandparents. It

1501
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:56,400
Speaker 1: was no different than my grandfather again, frustrated with me,

1502
01:21:56,479 --> 01:21:58,920
Speaker 1: trying to show me how to believe breaks, but I

1503
01:21:59,040 --> 01:22:00,760
Speaker 1: understood how much here and then I just wanted to

1504
01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:02,960
Speaker 1: be around him. So whenever he come through, I'd invite

1505
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:04,800
Speaker 1: the other homies out, we're gonna watch him, and I

1506
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:07,000
Speaker 1: got a chance to start talking to him. So it

1507
01:22:07,240 --> 01:22:09,920
Speaker 1: wasn't an all the time constant relationship, but it was

1508
01:22:11,080 --> 01:22:13,760
Speaker 1: he always talked good about me. I found out after

1509
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:16,720
Speaker 1: he died in other rooms. I was the only rappers name.

1510
01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:20,320
Speaker 1: He even remembered other people. He would say that, boy,

1511
01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:23,040
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like that guy that I met,

1512
01:22:23,400 --> 01:22:25,679
Speaker 1: you know. But he literally would say that he talked

1513
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:28,040
Speaker 1: about me to people like Kathy Hughes, the most powerful

1514
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:30,679
Speaker 1: black woman in radio. And I found all this out

1515
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:34,880
Speaker 1: that he did. But the conversations we had would be hours.

1516
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:38,320
Speaker 1: It'd be after his show at eleven twelve, and we

1517
01:22:38,479 --> 01:22:40,439
Speaker 1: got him to four or five in the fucking morning.

1518
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:43,160
Speaker 1: My wife said to me about a few hours ago,

1519
01:22:43,479 --> 01:22:46,880
Speaker 1: let's go look at a tree. And I'm like absolutely,

1520
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:48,920
Speaker 1: because we had a tough day to day. We were

1521
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:51,160
Speaker 1: out doing business and we were sniping at each other.

1522
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:53,720
Speaker 1: And I asked him in front of her one night, hey,

1523
01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:55,800
Speaker 1: what did you do. You've been married all these years

1524
01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:57,639
Speaker 1: with your wife, what do you do when y'all arguing?

1525
01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:00,760
Speaker 1: He said, just whole hands and look at a tree.

1526
01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:03,560
Speaker 1: And I'm going to tell all married people, if you

1527
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 1: put your fucking ego aside for ten minutes and walk

1528
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:10,479
Speaker 1: the fuck outside, stand in the grass and look at

1529
01:23:10,520 --> 01:23:13,720
Speaker 1: a fucking tree, something happens, or it's just fucking open.

1530
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:16,840
Speaker 1: Just go ahead. Something happens. And that's real. So I

1531
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:20,200
Speaker 1: still live by the things some of the things that

1532
01:23:20,680 --> 01:23:23,960
Speaker 1: he's taught, you know what I'm saying. So I knowing

1533
01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:26,960
Speaker 1: him was one of the great honors of my life

1534
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:30,960
Speaker 1: because very few people get and I'm gonna tell you this.

1535
01:23:31,479 --> 01:23:34,200
Speaker 1: I grew up knowing Reverend James Orange. I grew up

1536
01:23:34,240 --> 01:23:37,000
Speaker 1: who was a direct assistant to Doctor King and organized.

1537
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:39,519
Speaker 1: I grew up knowing Joseph Lowry. I grew up knowing

1538
01:23:39,680 --> 01:23:42,679
Speaker 1: great people from my culture. But the beautiful thing about

1539
01:23:42,760 --> 01:23:46,240
Speaker 1: Dick Gregory was he really became my friend and mentor

1540
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:49,840
Speaker 1: and imparted things on me that will that will give

1541
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:52,679
Speaker 1: me a wisdom in life that are much much richer

1542
01:23:52,720 --> 01:23:54,760
Speaker 1: than had I not known him. Beautiful, and I want

1543
01:23:54,800 --> 01:23:57,679
Speaker 1: to thank his family for sharing him with the world

1544
01:23:57,720 --> 01:24:02,960
Speaker 1: because I cannot understand until died, how audulous that must be. Beautiful.

1545
01:24:03,200 --> 01:24:05,200
Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing about Dick Gregory. I've always been

1546
01:24:05,200 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 1: a fan, so it's nice to hear. And I don't

1547
01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 1: know anyone who ever met him, so it's it's beautiful

1548
01:24:09,479 --> 01:24:12,640
Speaker 1: to hear. Tell me where the hook came from in

1549
01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:15,400
Speaker 1: the ground below. Love never meant so much to me.

1550
01:24:16,680 --> 01:24:18,400
Speaker 1: It went through so many different it went through so

1551
01:24:18,439 --> 01:24:22,720
Speaker 1: many different changes. Man, is it a sample? No? No, No,

1552
01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:27,200
Speaker 1: that's Mike singing. Really, yeah, I had no idea. That's

1553
01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:30,960
Speaker 1: the greatest comblement I've ever gotten. I really didn't know.

1554
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:33,880
Speaker 1: I had no idea. I assumed it was a sample,

1555
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:35,960
Speaker 1: but I didn't know it was something that I had written,

1556
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:39,040
Speaker 1: that I had wrapped, and then I sent to Mike,

1557
01:24:39,640 --> 01:24:41,759
Speaker 1: and then Mike went to the studio and he sang

1558
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:44,280
Speaker 1: it because he was inspired to sing it. And then

1559
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:45,880
Speaker 1: we ended up getting on a phone and being like,

1560
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:48,560
Speaker 1: all right, let's combine. It's just it was just it

1561
01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:52,080
Speaker 1: was the last song that we did, and we just

1562
01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:54,519
Speaker 1: ended up sort of doing a hybrid. I kind of

1563
01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:56,960
Speaker 1: sent it back and forth him a few times, and yeah,

1564
01:24:57,439 --> 01:25:00,360
Speaker 1: but Mike, Mike had done the whole I took what

1565
01:25:00,479 --> 01:25:02,960
Speaker 1: I had done. I had wrapped the whole thing. Mike

1566
01:25:03,040 --> 01:25:05,560
Speaker 1: took okay, and he sang the whole thing, and you know,

1567
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:09,559
Speaker 1: we had to meet in the middle. Basically, we had

1568
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:11,360
Speaker 1: to meet in the middle. Yeah. Cool. But I love

1569
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:12,840
Speaker 1: the way it came out too. I love the way

1570
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:14,640
Speaker 1: it came out. I think it sounds awesome, you know.

1571
01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:18,160
Speaker 1: And how did the singing sections in pulling the pin

1572
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:21,040
Speaker 1: get written. I wrote those they're beautiful, thank you, and

1573
01:25:21,160 --> 01:25:24,040
Speaker 1: again sort of similar, I wrote it and it was

1574
01:25:24,360 --> 01:25:26,880
Speaker 1: written to be wrapped, and then me and Mike both

1575
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:29,040
Speaker 1: for trying to kind of see if we could sing it,

1576
01:25:29,520 --> 01:25:33,960
Speaker 1: and then wasn't It wasn't working. And then you know,

1577
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:36,720
Speaker 1: Mike tells the story and fifty percent of the time

1578
01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:38,800
Speaker 1: I smile, and fifty percent of the time I want

1579
01:25:38,840 --> 01:25:41,000
Speaker 1: to punch him in the face because I remember what

1580
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:43,639
Speaker 1: it felt like. But all of the time I'm happy

1581
01:25:43,720 --> 01:25:47,120
Speaker 1: that it happened this way. Is that basically Mike more

1582
01:25:47,200 --> 01:25:50,200
Speaker 1: so than anything that I've ever seen him dig in on.

1583
01:25:50,479 --> 01:25:53,439
Speaker 1: And Mike was like, we need to get like a

1584
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:56,680
Speaker 1: soul singer, like a soul voice to do this. And

1585
01:25:57,960 --> 01:25:59,840
Speaker 1: it was long, you know how long we were working

1586
01:25:59,840 --> 01:26:01,720
Speaker 1: on recommend and it was and it was it was

1587
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:04,559
Speaker 1: laid in the game, and I was I was tired,

1588
01:26:05,080 --> 01:26:07,360
Speaker 1: and I and I was like, man, I didn't and

1589
01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:09,519
Speaker 1: so we sent it to a couple of different singers

1590
01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:12,280
Speaker 1: and Mike was like, I don't like and I was

1591
01:26:12,360 --> 01:26:15,479
Speaker 1: annoyed because I was like, motherfucker, because you know, part

1592
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:17,840
Speaker 1: of me was just like I'm tired, I'm just tired.

1593
01:26:18,120 --> 01:26:21,120
Speaker 1: But I love him for it because he insisted. He

1594
01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:23,200
Speaker 1: insisted because he felt something in it. And that was

1595
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:26,240
Speaker 1: a big honor for me, because when you write something,

1596
01:26:26,320 --> 01:26:29,439
Speaker 1: you want your partner to feel it right it's and

1597
01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:31,960
Speaker 1: he felt it, and he was he was telling me

1598
01:26:32,080 --> 01:26:34,200
Speaker 1: that in his way that he felt well, I was

1599
01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:36,920
Speaker 1: what I was saying, But he was also saying, it's

1600
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:41,080
Speaker 1: because I feel it that we can't say it. We

1601
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:43,920
Speaker 1: couldn't do it. It was that shit wouldn't have been right,

1602
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:48,679
Speaker 1: Like what what a whipping post was saying? Pop versus

1603
01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:52,760
Speaker 1: by two wail a wailing Southern boy. You know what

1604
01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:55,599
Speaker 1: I'm saying. I'm like, what is what is? What is respect?

1605
01:26:56,280 --> 01:26:58,240
Speaker 1: A reathing? I've seen? So I just I knew a

1606
01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:01,240
Speaker 1: head to be sold. So and then will you know

1607
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:03,960
Speaker 1: one of the manager says, you know, maybe what bro

1608
01:27:04,240 --> 01:27:07,400
Speaker 1: what about? Maybe it is like fucking light bulbs go

1609
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:10,360
Speaker 1: off at the potential. And I can remember because I

1610
01:27:10,479 --> 01:27:12,519
Speaker 1: had developed a relationship with her a few years ago,

1611
01:27:12,840 --> 01:27:14,720
Speaker 1: but we were supposed to work. We didn't work. But

1612
01:27:14,920 --> 01:27:18,200
Speaker 1: like an auntie nephew relationship, like she really is one

1613
01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:21,960
Speaker 1: of the most beautiful, radiating souls, even to just to

1614
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:24,760
Speaker 1: talk to over the phone, envy meeting people, but I

1615
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:27,280
Speaker 1: envy l for getting a hugger, you know. But when

1616
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:30,320
Speaker 1: when it came back that she consider it and then

1617
01:27:30,360 --> 01:27:32,200
Speaker 1: did she do it, it was it was just like

1618
01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:35,799
Speaker 1: like like a being like I could like, man, it happened.

1619
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:38,280
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's d it was ordained, man, because

1620
01:27:38,360 --> 01:27:41,720
Speaker 1: like like this shit, like no one else that I

1621
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:46,800
Speaker 1: know of, alive now and active in music now, who

1622
01:27:47,320 --> 01:27:52,920
Speaker 1: is eighty years old, who could connect a lifetime of

1623
01:27:53,320 --> 01:27:58,000
Speaker 1: struggle and beauty and soul. We're really young compared to her, Like,

1624
01:27:58,080 --> 01:28:01,760
Speaker 1: we're of a totally different generation. And even though we're sophisticated,

1625
01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:05,400
Speaker 1: I believe in our understanding of certain things, there's something

1626
01:28:05,479 --> 01:28:08,840
Speaker 1: that can not that we were not capable of expressing

1627
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:12,679
Speaker 1: through our vocals. The most beautiful thing about this story

1628
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:17,120
Speaker 1: of the collaboration is that it's again a great example

1629
01:28:17,160 --> 01:28:21,360
Speaker 1: of collaboration. And I'm not even talking about the singing part.

1630
01:28:21,479 --> 01:28:26,760
Speaker 1: I'm talking about Mike hearing something of yours and caring

1631
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:31,120
Speaker 1: more about it than you do and insisting away yeah,

1632
01:28:31,240 --> 01:28:33,960
Speaker 1: and insisting that it be. And that's what makes a

1633
01:28:34,160 --> 01:28:38,920
Speaker 1: great partnership, in that you each make each other better,

1634
01:28:39,479 --> 01:28:42,639
Speaker 1: even when the other guys ready to give up. Yeah,

1635
01:28:43,560 --> 01:28:46,640
Speaker 1: you push each other to Rick and Rick, I'm not

1636
01:28:46,760 --> 01:28:48,400
Speaker 1: usually ready to give up, man, But I have been

1637
01:28:48,439 --> 01:28:50,840
Speaker 1: working on this record. No, no, no, it's beautiful. It's

1638
01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:53,720
Speaker 1: a beautiful story. It's a beautiful story. And you know

1639
01:28:53,880 --> 01:28:55,800
Speaker 1: I knew that too. That it's not like I thought, like,

1640
01:28:56,000 --> 01:28:58,839
Speaker 1: it's like I understood it even as it was happening.

1641
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:02,640
Speaker 1: I was just tired, but I knew, but I understood

1642
01:29:02,680 --> 01:29:06,280
Speaker 1: it enough to be like, okay, let's keep You were

1643
01:29:06,320 --> 01:29:08,920
Speaker 1: just done, you were just done. Like look, yo, the

1644
01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:12,760
Speaker 1: truth of the matter is is that the labor of

1645
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:15,200
Speaker 1: love that I put into these records, my job on

1646
01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:18,160
Speaker 1: these records, it takes a long time. Like what I

1647
01:29:18,320 --> 01:29:20,000
Speaker 1: have to do on these records takes a long time

1648
01:29:20,040 --> 01:29:23,080
Speaker 1: and a lot of hours, and and you know, it's

1649
01:29:23,120 --> 01:29:24,920
Speaker 1: just it's just it's what I asked for. It's what

1650
01:29:25,040 --> 01:29:27,719
Speaker 1: I wanted. I wanted to be the guy who makes

1651
01:29:27,760 --> 01:29:30,320
Speaker 1: the music and who crafts the album. And I'm good

1652
01:29:30,360 --> 01:29:33,760
Speaker 1: at it. But it's also it's time. It can be

1653
01:29:33,880 --> 01:29:37,559
Speaker 1: tiring after a while, and and Mike had to pick

1654
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:39,519
Speaker 1: up that energy. Man, he had to be the time

1655
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:42,479
Speaker 1: to say you're right. He cared about it in that moment,

1656
01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:45,439
Speaker 1: cared more about what I said than I did. I

1657
01:29:45,560 --> 01:29:47,519
Speaker 1: was ready to throw in the towel and that. But

1658
01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:52,240
Speaker 1: that energy is I feel like when when I connected

1659
01:29:52,280 --> 01:29:55,799
Speaker 1: to it, when I hear it, it's that, it's that collaborate,

1660
01:29:55,880 --> 01:30:02,280
Speaker 1: It's the energy of all everyone involved working together to

1661
01:30:02,479 --> 01:30:07,080
Speaker 1: get to this better place. It's remarkable and beautiful. It's beautiful,

1662
01:30:07,240 --> 01:30:10,120
Speaker 1: feel exactly. I feel very I feel very very lucky

1663
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:13,479
Speaker 1: that it happened that way, and I feel very honored

1664
01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:16,920
Speaker 1: that I um, Mike had, Mike had met her before,

1665
01:30:16,960 --> 01:30:19,760
Speaker 1: I had never met her. And then the day, the

1666
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:22,600
Speaker 1: day after she um, she said she would do it,

1667
01:30:22,640 --> 01:30:24,760
Speaker 1: I was on a plane in Chicago. I was, I was.

1668
01:30:24,880 --> 01:30:27,920
Speaker 1: I was there the next day. And being a part

1669
01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:31,439
Speaker 1: of Run the Jewels has led to some of the

1670
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:34,840
Speaker 1: most beautiful experience like experiences as a musician and a

1671
01:30:34,920 --> 01:30:38,280
Speaker 1: person that I've ever had, Like um being able to

1672
01:30:38,479 --> 01:30:40,439
Speaker 1: be in the room and to be and to be

1673
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:45,240
Speaker 1: working with someone who has that, you know, that caliber

1674
01:30:45,400 --> 01:30:50,360
Speaker 1: spirit and something that neither me nor Mike could ever

1675
01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:55,240
Speaker 1: um could not yet, not yet in our lives could

1676
01:30:55,360 --> 01:31:01,200
Speaker 1: we bring the amount of pain and history and love

1677
01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:05,280
Speaker 1: and anguish to that record and she has it, and

1678
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:08,880
Speaker 1: it's so inspiring because it's like, Wow, this is the

1679
01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:12,040
Speaker 1: point of keeping making art, Like this is the point

1680
01:31:12,080 --> 01:31:16,000
Speaker 1: of this is why you don't ever stop. You have

1681
01:31:16,240 --> 01:31:19,040
Speaker 1: to keep going and keep because there's something that you're

1682
01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:20,800
Speaker 1: going to be able to pull off at eighty years

1683
01:31:20,840 --> 01:31:24,040
Speaker 1: old that you were incapable of pulling off at fifty,

1684
01:31:24,800 --> 01:31:27,120
Speaker 1: you know, And and it's inspiring to me. It's like, man,

1685
01:31:27,360 --> 01:31:29,720
Speaker 1: I'm going I'm just going to keep going because I

1686
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:33,400
Speaker 1: think that I've seen it doesn't die, it just it

1687
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:36,160
Speaker 1: changes and it becomes more powerful. And she connected us

1688
01:31:36,400 --> 01:31:43,760
Speaker 1: to generations of protests and heart and love that that

1689
01:31:44,840 --> 01:31:47,560
Speaker 1: you know, we're very lucky to be connected to in

1690
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:52,000
Speaker 1: any way beautiful. And earlier, Mike, you said that, um,

1691
01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:54,680
Speaker 1: you needed to do at least four albums for it

1692
01:31:54,800 --> 01:31:56,560
Speaker 1: to be like a real for it to be a

1693
01:31:56,640 --> 01:31:59,479
Speaker 1: real project. And I feel like, yeah, could be a

1694
01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:01,960
Speaker 1: real buy now with this fourth album, you guys are

1695
01:32:02,000 --> 01:32:04,639
Speaker 1: just getting started. It feels like just the beginning really

1696
01:32:04,680 --> 01:32:07,840
Speaker 1: does to me too. That's what That's what Mike keeps

1697
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:11,040
Speaker 1: saying too. I just I just take it one record

1698
01:32:11,080 --> 01:32:14,840
Speaker 1: at a time because because it's just been It's just

1699
01:32:14,960 --> 01:32:16,960
Speaker 1: been a friendship, you know what I mean for me,

1700
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:18,840
Speaker 1: because you know, for me, I don't like to think

1701
01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:21,640
Speaker 1: of it in any terms except are we making a

1702
01:32:21,680 --> 01:32:23,880
Speaker 1: new song? Are we making a new jam? You know,

1703
01:32:24,080 --> 01:32:26,160
Speaker 1: because all of these things just start with songs with

1704
01:32:26,280 --> 01:32:28,280
Speaker 1: me and Mike. And the one thing that's kept me

1705
01:32:28,360 --> 01:32:31,280
Speaker 1: coming back that is, like all of this stuff that

1706
01:32:31,479 --> 01:32:33,479
Speaker 1: was is hard about Run the Jewels and all the

1707
01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:36,920
Speaker 1: stuff that gets complicated with Run the Jewels, there is

1708
01:32:36,960 --> 01:32:40,840
Speaker 1: another aspect to it two, which is that the complication

1709
01:32:41,080 --> 01:32:44,840
Speaker 1: is never about music to complicate. Like the music and

1710
01:32:44,960 --> 01:32:46,800
Speaker 1: the and the and the spirit and the energy that

1711
01:32:46,880 --> 01:32:51,480
Speaker 1: we have when we're in our zone. It's always been surprising,

1712
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:55,240
Speaker 1: it's always been exciting, it's always been invigorating. It's always

1713
01:32:55,280 --> 01:32:58,280
Speaker 1: been something I couldn't predict. And I'm always seeking out

1714
01:32:58,400 --> 01:33:01,320
Speaker 1: that and and but at the same time, I always

1715
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:04,920
Speaker 1: like to think from the very beginning, I always kind

1716
01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:09,600
Speaker 1: of like to think the more your your union and

1717
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:13,960
Speaker 1: your partnership with someone is more powerful if that person

1718
01:33:14,080 --> 01:33:15,800
Speaker 1: knows that the second that they don't want to be

1719
01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:18,439
Speaker 1: in this, the second that this doesn't feel right to them,

1720
01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:21,880
Speaker 1: that it's all good. I still love you. You don't

1721
01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:23,680
Speaker 1: have to do this with me if it doesn't feel right.

1722
01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:26,040
Speaker 1: And of course we know that we're not walking away

1723
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:28,559
Speaker 1: from each other. But I'm just saying that spirit has

1724
01:33:28,600 --> 01:33:30,920
Speaker 1: always been there with us, Like, yo, look, this is

1725
01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:33,519
Speaker 1: a choice. You're choosing to be in the room with me.

1726
01:33:33,640 --> 01:33:36,519
Speaker 1: Every time you don't, you don't have to. And and

1727
01:33:36,720 --> 01:33:38,760
Speaker 1: because we're both choosing to be in the room with

1728
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:41,800
Speaker 1: each other every time, it keeps, It keeps the love there,

1729
01:33:41,880 --> 01:33:44,040
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, It keeps. It's like we're

1730
01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:48,240
Speaker 1: walking in with our eyes open. And so Mike's often like,

1731
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:50,280
Speaker 1: will say that, And of course in the back of

1732
01:33:50,400 --> 01:33:53,920
Speaker 1: my head, I'm like, yeah, no doubt. But I'm a

1733
01:33:53,960 --> 01:33:56,400
Speaker 1: little superstitious. I don't like to say shit like that.

1734
01:33:56,640 --> 01:33:58,200
Speaker 1: I don't like to say shit like that out loud.

1735
01:33:58,240 --> 01:34:02,040
Speaker 1: I like to just let it happen. So thank you both,

1736
01:34:02,200 --> 01:34:05,880
Speaker 1: and I look forward to seeing you sooner than later. Peace.

1737
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:11,519
Speaker 1: Thanks to LP and Killing Mike for taking the time

1738
01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:14,000
Speaker 1: to break down their new album. You can hear Run

1739
01:34:14,040 --> 01:34:16,760
Speaker 1: the Jewels four, along with our other favorite songs from them,

1740
01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:19,840
Speaker 1: by heading to Broken Record podcast dot com. We sure

1741
01:34:19,840 --> 01:34:21,600
Speaker 1: to check out our YouTube channel to catch up on

1742
01:34:21,680 --> 01:34:24,840
Speaker 1: past episodes and bonus interview footage, including an extending cut

1743
01:34:24,880 --> 01:34:27,760
Speaker 1: of today's episode. You can subscribe at YouTube dot com

1744
01:34:27,880 --> 01:34:31,479
Speaker 1: slash broken Record podcast. Broken Record is produced with help

1745
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:35,400
Speaker 1: from Jason Gambrel me LaBelle Leah Rose, Eric Sandler, and

1746
01:34:35,560 --> 01:34:39,400
Speaker 1: Martin Gonzalez for Pushman Ministries. Art musics by Kenny Beats.

1747
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:41,160
Speaker 1: I'm Justin Richmond bass