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Speaker 1: Little warning for our Pod Meats World listeners. This episode

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Speaker 1: contains details of a horrific crime that involves not only violence,

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Speaker 1: but sexual assault and intense grief. Please proceed with caution.

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Speaker 1: One of the many lessons we have hosts have learned

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Speaker 1: while making Pod Meets World is that you never really

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Speaker 1: know what people are going through. We would drive to

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Speaker 1: set every day ready to have fun. I would endlessly

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Speaker 1: talk about boys, Writer would read a book he had

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Speaker 1: stuffed into his oversized.

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Speaker 2: Gene pockets, and Will would smoke.

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Speaker 1: As kids, we just bopped around, laughing, care free, while

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Speaker 1: our adult co workers around us doing their job, each

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Speaker 1: hysterical and talented. We're experiencing difficult adult situations, and now,

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Speaker 1: as middle aged human beings ourselves, we know that's not easy.

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Speaker 1: And some of the most successful and funny actors of

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Speaker 1: all time weren't exactly as ready for the spotlight in

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Speaker 1: their personal lives as they were on screen. Matthew Perry,

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Speaker 1: Chris Farley, and Carrie Fisher come to mind, and the

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Speaker 1: new book Karen a Brother Remembers by sitcom legend Kelsey

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Speaker 1: Grammer is another example of never really knowing what your

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Speaker 1: favorite characters in movies and on TV could really be

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Speaker 1: going through at home. This five time Emmy winner, who

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Speaker 1: helped define modern comedy as Fraser Crane on Cheers and

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Speaker 1: then his own show, Fraser, experienced tragedy at just twenty

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Speaker 1: years old when his eighteen year old sister Karen, was

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Speaker 1: raped and brutally murdered by men who had intended to

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Speaker 1: rob the Red Lobster where she worked. She was kidnapped, assaulted,

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Speaker 1: and then later stabbed by a group that ended up

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Speaker 1: killing a handful of others before they were caught. Kelsey

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Speaker 1: was soulmates with his sister, connected beyond the normal sibling relationship,

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Speaker 1: and the way she was taken from him and his

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Speaker 1: own conceived inability to save her still plagues him today.

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Speaker 1: In his honest and brave writing, he finally faces the

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Speaker 1: devastation and pain he feels, offering the reader a glimpse

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Speaker 1: into not only his struggles, but his process of coping

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Speaker 1: with tragedy. Because, in addition to Karen, Kelsey's father would

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Speaker 1: be killed by a man in a racially motivated attack,

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Speaker 1: his half brothers would die in a scuba diving accident,

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Speaker 1: and his own daughter was slashed by a knife wielding

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Speaker 1: man in a New York restaurant while she tried to

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Speaker 1: pull the attacker off of another person. And yet Kelsey

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Speaker 1: Grammar survived, fighting every day to get up and move forward,

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Speaker 1: letting others enjoy his work on screen and on stage.

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Speaker 1: So now we welcome to the podcast, a sitcom legend

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Speaker 1: and a true survivor. It's Kelsey Grammar.

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Speaker 3: Thank hello. That was quite nice, Danielle. Thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you for being here with us. So

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Speaker 1: nice that you're here to share your and Karen's story.

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Speaker 1: It means a great deal to us.

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Speaker 3: I do appreciate it. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: So the story of your sister is so tragic and

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Speaker 1: yet beautiful with your ability as a vulnerable narrator. And

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Speaker 1: I was wondering at Cheers or Frasier, did a lot

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Speaker 1: of people know this story?

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Speaker 3: No they didn't. Actually I didn't walk around talking about

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Speaker 3: it a lot. You know, it's been with me, of course,

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Speaker 3: you know since the day it happened, which is now

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Speaker 3: it was fifty years this summer, I was actually thinking

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Speaker 3: about a friend of an old friend of mine years

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Speaker 3: ago who actually accused me of using it sometimes to

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Speaker 3: try to score.

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Speaker 4: It's because you weird.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was just weird. It was like, it's so

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Speaker 3: funny that he brought it up. He said, well, Kelsey,

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Speaker 3: when somebody asked you have sisters or brothers, you say, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I had a sister, And then they asked you, and

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Speaker 3: then somebody asked another question, how are they? What are

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Speaker 3: they do? I said, well, actually she was killed, you know,

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Speaker 3: And so it would come up naturally and I would

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Speaker 3: never volunteer it. But I just suddenly thought what a

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Speaker 3: strange friendship that was. I didn't wrote about it in my.

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Speaker 5: Bo That's probably not a great friend.

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Speaker 3: From somebody you call a friend, but it's okay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can imagine, Yeah, it's been something you just

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Speaker 1: abide with for a long time.

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Speaker 3: And I never really actually there's a there's a great

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Speaker 3: line ordinary human unhappiness, his life and its natural color,

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Speaker 3: nothing to cavilove, and that's an audun line. But I

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Speaker 3: always thought that. I thought, well, we don't any reason

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Speaker 3: to let, you know, piss and moan about our lives.

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Speaker 3: We don't have any real reason to complain about where

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Speaker 3: we are. My purpose in writing the book came when

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Speaker 3: I was kind of instructed through a medium and said, oh,

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Speaker 3: your sister's here with me. She wants you to tell

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Speaker 3: her story, and that was really kind of interesting. I thought, well,

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Speaker 3: I wonder how that would go. So I sat down

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Speaker 3: one day and I started writing, just to kind of,

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Speaker 3: you know, do some sort of bullet points in my head.

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Speaker 3: I thought, well, maybe I should give us a try.

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Speaker 3: And about an hour later it had ten pages of

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Speaker 3: stuff kind of jotted down, and I thought, oh, I

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Speaker 3: guess I'm going to write a book. And that's that's

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Speaker 3: what turned into Karen and I spent three years working

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Speaker 3: on it.

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Speaker 6: Basically, I'm so curious, having having read the book, what

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Speaker 6: were the first ten pages that came out?

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Speaker 3: Pretty much what you read the first ten pages.

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Speaker 4: It was linear at the time, and it really became a.

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Speaker 3: Kind of stream of consciousness exercise. And of course the

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Speaker 3: style is stream of consciousness. But when I was twelve,

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Speaker 3: you know, I read Portrait of the Artist as a

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Speaker 3: young Man by James Joyce and I thought, boy, what

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Speaker 3: a little crap. This is kind of harpooned byself. You know,

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Speaker 3: we always become what we make fun of when when

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Speaker 3: we were younger, you know, employee in that style, because

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Speaker 3: it was so immediate, it was like, I mean, I'm

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Speaker 3: working on another book now, And I just basically realized

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Speaker 3: that I wanted to be like, you're having a conversation

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Speaker 3: like you have, like we're sitting down for a coffee

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Speaker 3: and maybe you know so it's several hundred pages, but

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Speaker 3: still it's it's like, yeah, well we're sitting down, I'm

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Speaker 3: going to tell you some.

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Speaker 5: Stories, right well, I mean, for me, like what was

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Speaker 5: so interesting about the book was how much of the

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Speaker 5: book becomes or the journey of the book becomes the

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Speaker 5: writing of the book, you know, I mean you're literally

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Speaker 5: taking time where you're like, I'm not going to write

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Speaker 5: for a little while.

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Speaker 4: I need to, I need to take them some days off.

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Speaker 5: And then you come back and say, I'm rereading what

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Speaker 5: I wrote ten days ago and I'm picking up and

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Speaker 5: I thought that was so interesting. Did you ever, I mean,

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Speaker 5: how far into it were you like I have to

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Speaker 5: finish this or were you ever were you still constantly

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Speaker 5: like I might just put this in a drawer, and no.

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Speaker 3: Once it began, I thought I have to finish to

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Speaker 3: finish it out. Uh, what I found, what I found

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Speaker 3: so engaging about it, and what was what I hope

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Speaker 3: you know, we'll be shared with other people now that

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Speaker 3: book's been out for about six months now, but no,

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Speaker 3: maybe four. But I wanted it to be something that

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Speaker 3: I discovered with the reader, and I think that I

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Speaker 3: think that comes across. But I discovered things about time,

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Speaker 3: and I mean, my my favorite metaphor ends up being

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Speaker 3: that that carpenter's tool with the folding tape measure, the

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Speaker 3: folding measure ring device, you know, the thing that suddenly

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Speaker 3: it goes out to eight feet long or whatever, and

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Speaker 3: then you fold it all in and say, it's just

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Speaker 3: about this big, and that's all those marks and time

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Speaker 3: just fold it in on each other and you can

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Speaker 3: open any one of them and you're in that time. Yeah. Really,

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Speaker 3: the organic kind of exercise of time in my life

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Speaker 3: became completely different, completely quantum, I guess, is what you

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Speaker 3: could say about it. And it was a wonderful thing

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Speaker 3: for me to suddenly go to be transported from a

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Speaker 3: memory of Karen when she was just a little girl

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Speaker 3: to something I remembered about my own child, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 3: three months ago. It was extraordinary.

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Speaker 6: I'm so curious because so much of the book is

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Speaker 6: about loss, but it's also at the same time about

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Speaker 6: the people that were so important in your life and

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Speaker 6: So with all the loss of the book covers, has

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Speaker 6: writing the book brought any of those people back into

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Speaker 6: your life?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, what's fun is a couple of the people

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Speaker 3: who are still alive. Brad Keller, for instance, is one

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Speaker 3: of my great great friends I went to the music

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Speaker 3: camp together with when we were seventeen. Is still a pal,

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Speaker 3: and that's been great. Some of the folks that I

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Speaker 3: looked up, you know, that I'd known in the past,

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Speaker 3: wanted to talk to me. Some didn't, so I got them.

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Speaker 3: But what was most important actually was to realize, as

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Speaker 3: I'd never realized before, what a great gift my grandparents

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Speaker 3: gave us and to grow up in that, you know.

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Speaker 3: I Mean we everybodys talking about privilege and all that

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Speaker 3: kind of stuff these days, but I mean we really

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Speaker 3: were privileged for those ten years. I mean, we were

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Speaker 3: just kids, and they gave us safety and art and

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Speaker 3: you know, exposure to a great world. And they fed us,

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Speaker 3: you know. I mean, that is a privilege to live

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Speaker 3: in a world where you get fed, you know, and

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Speaker 3: looked after. And we were told, you know, stories about

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Speaker 3: what it meant to be an American, and we were

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Speaker 3: told what it meant to be like pioneers. And I

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Speaker 3: mean because the family was related to connected to pioneers.

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Speaker 3: My great grandfather across the country ten times on a horse.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's just this kind of history is extraordinary,

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Speaker 3: and they gave us that, they gave us a sense

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Speaker 3: of where we belonged in history. That was a really

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Speaker 3: great gift. And so I ended up being extraordinarily grateful

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Speaker 3: to them and to my mom because my mom had

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Speaker 3: the courage to kind of it didn't work got so

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Speaker 3: well with my dad, but she said, well, I need

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Speaker 3: to go back to my mom and dad, and I

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Speaker 3: ended up with this amazing man who taught me as

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Speaker 3: a boy. You know, that was a great, great gift. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was.

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Speaker 6: Well, that was one of the things that really stuck

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Speaker 6: with me is the vision of planting the garden you're

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Speaker 6: never going to get to see.

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Speaker 4: So the fact that he.

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Speaker 6: Right before he passed, moved the whole family to Florida

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Speaker 6: because he knew you were going to have the better

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Speaker 6: life down there and never got to be in the home.

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Speaker 4: That was the plan.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 4: That really stuck with me.

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Speaker 6: Where it is it's somebody it is planting the garden

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Speaker 6: that you know that you're not going to get to

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Speaker 6: sit under the shade of the tree, but you're still

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Speaker 6: you're still doing it was really wonderful.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if I don't remember now if

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Speaker 3: I wrote about it in the book, but Gordon, when

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Speaker 3: I was about fifteen, came to me in a dream, right,

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Speaker 3: and I was I'd gone down some some weird sort

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Speaker 3: of series of staircases into a like a late a

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Speaker 3: late night brothel kind of place where I was having

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Speaker 3: a beer and he walked in wearing some khaki shorts

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Speaker 3: and you know then his socks pulled up to his

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Speaker 3: calf like a Safari each shirt. The hell are you

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Speaker 3: doing here? He said, Oh, well, I just had to

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Speaker 3: get out. I was losing my mind. He left me

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Speaker 3: with him, you know, he said, yeah, yeah, I forget

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Speaker 3: you coulda hadle it by then. And so I got

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Speaker 3: this kind of release of like, well, yeah, he knew

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Speaker 3: he was. He was passing the baton to me, basically,

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Speaker 3: I was. It was really fun to kind of have that.

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Speaker 3: It's almost joyous closure with this vision of a man

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Speaker 3: who I mean, he loomed large in my imagination, of course,

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Speaker 3: you know, in his his service in World War two,

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Speaker 3: and he was god for twenty eight months. You know,

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Speaker 3: that's extraording what those people did and that he was

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Speaker 3: part of it. I knew, and then I had the

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Speaker 3: privilege to know him, you know, really well, it was

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Speaker 3: it was a great gift to know Gordon anyway, that's yeah.

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Speaker 4: I also sorry, I just have to say I felt

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Speaker 4: very connected to Jill. Oh.

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Speaker 6: I'm sitting here right now in Avon, Connecticut, in the

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Speaker 6: town right next to West Hartford. Kidding, my mom born

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Speaker 6: and raised in West Harford, and her parents worked at

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Speaker 6: the ETNA and the Hartford So there's a chance my

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Speaker 6: grandparents knew Jill's family. There's a there's very much a

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Speaker 6: chance that happened. Yeah, So yeah, it was such a connection.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was really in love with her. It was interesting,

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Speaker 3: was it was. It was need to rediscover that as well,

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Speaker 3: and they kind of realized that it was real. You know,

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Speaker 3: for a long time, I just sort of died, you know,

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Speaker 3: you know, you dismissed certain experiences in your life as

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Speaker 3: being all flippant or or you know, maybe maybe too

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Speaker 3: superficial or whatever, but it really wasn't. I mean, we

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Speaker 3: were we were two kids that actually we're trying our best,

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Speaker 3: and I just couldn't quite do what she needed.

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Speaker 4: The story of so much young love though, I mean

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Speaker 4: really there.

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Speaker 3: Was no I was going to be able to make

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Speaker 3: it her at that point.

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Speaker 1: Those things, well, one thing I noticed in the book

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Speaker 1: was a real openness to something you have already touched

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Speaker 1: on talking to mediums and those people who work in

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Speaker 1: a little more of a supernatural realm, and maybe that

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Speaker 1: you even encountered a ghost on this journey. Were you

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Speaker 1: always a believer in these things? Or was was the

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Speaker 1: where is how you got there? The need to speak

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Speaker 1: to Karen?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I I was always kind of interested in this

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Speaker 3: world of you know, what level are we on? What? What? What?

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Speaker 3: What aspect of existence is like in current form and

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Speaker 3: then in other places you know, or dimensions if you will.

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Speaker 3: And what is it about the psychometry or any number

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Speaker 3: of other what they call oracles or you know, a

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Speaker 3: guidance devices or or mechanisms. Yeah, and so I produced

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Speaker 3: a show twenty years ago called the Oracles, and it

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Speaker 3: never got on the air, But we had readings with

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Speaker 3: seven psychics, basically, and some of them were good, someone

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Speaker 3: weren't so good. But one of them was this Gal

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Speaker 3: Allison who we ended up making a show called Medium

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Speaker 3: about her gifts and about her story, and she was

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Speaker 3: pretty interesting. But there was another Gal Dolores, who was

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Speaker 3: a psychometrist and she had hits. She you know, you

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Speaker 3: start to learn the language of it. There's a they

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Speaker 3: get hits, they get they have sittings, they have a sitter,

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Speaker 3: someone that's there and they're the subject of a reading.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes if they're if they're getting stuff that they don't

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Speaker 3: know this person at all, and you know that's the case,

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Speaker 3: and they're getting hits of more than sixty percent that

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Speaker 3: are accurate about them, it's pretty phenomenal. You know, I

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Speaker 3: don't know this person and yet I know these things

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Speaker 3: about them as a result of some of the information

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Speaker 3: I'm getting from wherever they're getting it. I don't have

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Speaker 3: the gift. I discovered some gifts of inside. I guess

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Speaker 3: because that's the kind of person I'm I'm empathetic. I

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Speaker 3: guess as our way of living as an as an

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Speaker 3: actress to kind of try to figure out what motivates people,

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Speaker 3: why they do what they do, and so that was

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Speaker 3: that's always been part of me. I can kind of

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Speaker 3: see what motivations are for certain people that might you

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Speaker 3: might not seem apparent to most. But so that's my gift,

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Speaker 3: but their gift is really extraordinary. And like with Esther,

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Speaker 3: when she first told me the thing, I mean, it

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Speaker 3: was you know, almost cartoonish in my head because we

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Speaker 3: were on the phone and she lives in England, and

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Speaker 3: there really was that you know, there's a little rattle

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Speaker 3: I heard, and I thought I heard some bones being

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Speaker 3: thrown around where this goes. And then she pops out

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Speaker 3: with that tell my story thing, and I thought, wow, okay,

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Speaker 3: I believe that. And I've I've met others who who

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Speaker 3: brought Karen by and you know, and got some input

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Speaker 3: and others that I thought, well, that sounds a little

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Speaker 3: derribative of what you'd just be able to read if

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Speaker 3: you're interested. So but I do think it's a very

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Speaker 3: interesting thing. And I've got some you know, fundamentalist friends

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Speaker 3: or evangelical pals that you know say, oh, you know, Kelse,

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Speaker 3: we can't really talk about this stuff, and right I

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Speaker 3: respect that, because you know what, I do think it

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Speaker 3: can muddy the waters. I mean, I do think you

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Speaker 3: know your your life of if you're a devotee of Christianity,

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Speaker 3: if you if you're following the Christian path, it might

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Speaker 3: be wise not to invite in voices from some other place,

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Speaker 3: some other plane. But I do think that, you know,

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Speaker 3: in Revelation, you know, John Devine was actually channeling.

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Speaker 2: So but you do.

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Speaker 6: It's what That's the other thing that's so interesting is

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Speaker 6: because at times you're talking about Buddha, at times you're

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Speaker 6: talking about Valhalla. Yeah, I mean, there's it seems like

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Speaker 6: you're kind of open to every spiritual path.

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Speaker 3: Frank Yeah, absolutely, I think. Uh. I mean, they're they're

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Speaker 3: man made, you know, and but they are they're they're

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Speaker 3: taken from moments when man interfaced with the higher power,

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Speaker 3: whatever that is. Wherever they're whatever, there are series of

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Speaker 3: symbols and and uh and images are that the sort

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Speaker 3: of resonate with them. Uh. It's still the same story.

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Speaker 3: It's still our interaction with with God, with with the power,

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Speaker 3: with our creator, something that is above us within us

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Speaker 3: at the same time. And so there's different ways of

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Speaker 3: expressing it. But I love the idea of voyeah.

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Speaker 4: Me too, Yeah, me too as well. Yeah, same, so Yeah.

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Speaker 6: One of the best quotes I heard was was God

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Speaker 6: is the name that we give the blanket that we

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Speaker 6: throw over the thing to give it shape. And I

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Speaker 6: think there's something kind of interesting about that where it's

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Speaker 6: you know, you got to you got to call it

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Speaker 6: something right.

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Speaker 3: Somebody years years ago. I think it was Theodore macaal

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Speaker 3: as lecture in in my high school where he just

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Speaker 3: said the word of jahweh or whatever basically just means

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Speaker 3: that thing again that yeah, yeah, there is Yeah, there's

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00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,440
Speaker 3: that thing. Yeah, it just keeps coming up.

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Speaker 2: That thing we can't quite describe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there are a lot of times in the book

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Speaker 1: where you mention that Karen is still with you, helping

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Speaker 1: you in life and sharing her thoughts with you even

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Speaker 1: while you were writing the book. And my husband also

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Speaker 1: talks about this with his mother. He says, I can't

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Speaker 1: explain it, but in times where something comes up and

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Speaker 1: we're having a conversation, he goes, I know exactly what

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Speaker 1: my mom would say, and he's sure it is like

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Speaker 1: a direct placement of her her opinion into his brain

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Speaker 1: from her. He's like, I just know it. I know

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Speaker 1: for certain what she would say. Is that how it

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Speaker 1: feels for you. What are some of the examples of

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Speaker 1: Karen being with you and helping to guide you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really interesting. Of course it became more present.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I was more aware of it as I

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Speaker 3: wrote the book. Yeah, and then I realized that throughout

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Speaker 3: my life with her, it's probably come up a few times.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I remember I was sitting on a plane

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Speaker 3: once years ago with a group of friends. It was

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Speaker 3: like thirty years ago, and I was going to some advance,

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Speaker 3: some upfront or whatever it was. And things were cool

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Speaker 3: and we were drinking champagne and there were people all

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Speaker 3: around and it was a real celebration. And a girl

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Speaker 3: I was dating at the time said, you know, your

363
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Speaker 3: sister's here, lovely ow. You know, maybe she is, so

364
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,920
Speaker 3: it's come up before I thought, he'll grab that phone.

365
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Speaker 3: But in the descriptions of the events while writing the book,

366
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Speaker 3: the sense of Karen around me, with me just became

367
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 3: more apparent, you know, because I was accessing it. I

368
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 3: was asking her to be there, and she was and

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Speaker 3: it was wonderful, And it also released her in a

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Speaker 3: way in some ways, you know, not necessarily feel like

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Speaker 3: she had to be in the every day of it

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Speaker 3: all all the time. But I still like her around.

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Speaker 3: I still expect to see her when I'm done.

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Speaker 6: Well, that was that was the thing that was one

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Speaker 6: of the things that really struck me about how it

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Speaker 6: was written, is it it almost seemed like a mirror

377
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Speaker 6: of grief in that you have times where you're reading

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Speaker 6: the book where everything's good and happy, and then all

379
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Speaker 6: of a sudden, there's a letter from.

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Speaker 3: The pear Board.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and it's it's like it all comes rushing back

382
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Speaker 6: right away, so you feel like you're able to take

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Speaker 6: this breath, and then you're dragged under the water again,

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Speaker 6: and there's something very does it Does it get easier

385
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Speaker 6: as time goes on.

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Speaker 3: No, it's really weird. It's just there. There's still that pang.

387
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Speaker 3: The pang is just renewed. It just it just it's

388
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Speaker 3: just as vibrant as the first time it happened. But

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Speaker 3: what's weird is that it did seem like the first

390
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Speaker 3: time the parole Board actually reached out to me. I

391
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Speaker 3: guess there was a sort of a limit in terms

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Speaker 3: of years as to how long that wouldn't happen. And

393
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Speaker 3: then the period passed and the first letter came through,

394
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Speaker 3: and I was with Kate at the time, so we've

395
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Speaker 3: been together for fifteen years, and oh my goodness, I

396
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Speaker 3: just I wept for days because it was like they

397
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Speaker 3: just sent a knife through me. And they just said, oh,

398
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Speaker 3: and this is happening. You need to do this, you

399
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,359
Speaker 3: need to now talk about And suddenly my whole the

400
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 3: forty years that had passed before were gone, and I

401
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 3: was still I was back as that twenty year old

402
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 3: young man looking at his dead sister, and it was

403
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Speaker 3: just a horrible, horrible thing. And I don't know, you know,

404
00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:00,440
Speaker 3: I don't know how to get around it, because yeah,

405
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 3: people deserve justice, and yes, criminals who've done horrible things

406
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 3: have a right to try to, you know, make amends

407
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,639
Speaker 3: and move on in life and stuff like that. I

408
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 3: just there are some instances I think, I think that

409
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 3: it's just not going to happen, but I believe in

410
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,400
Speaker 3: the process of it. But I mentioned it in the book.

411
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Speaker 3: I think that's one of the parole people said to me.

412
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Speaker 3: At one point. I said, you know, this is really

413
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Speaker 3: cool stuff that you guys have to do to people,

414
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Speaker 3: and all these innocent people who suffered have to suffer again.

415
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 3: Why is that okay? And they said, well, it's it's

416
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Speaker 3: not called the victim's justice system. It's called the criminal

417
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Speaker 3: justice system.

418
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Speaker 4: Yeah, jeezu, Yeah.

419
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I get it. I mean, you know, and so,

420
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 3: and we have a lot of that going on now,

421
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 3: you know, Los Angeles, some of the bigger cities. You know,

422
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 3: we're lost in this repeat criminal stuff. The stuff is

423
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 3: going on every day around us. You know, you just

424
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 3: keep thinking, how is this possible? But I guess that

425
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 3: our better angels are telling us to try to be

426
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 3: you know, forgiving and give people second chances. But maybe

427
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 3: maybe nine or ten or eleven chances is one too many.

428
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, you talked about how you know, time sort of

429
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Speaker 5: is meaningless when you have these pangs and you have

430
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 5: these emotional and there's a really incredible scene in the

431
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 5: book where you are you're playing lairties I believe and yeah,

432
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Speaker 5: and he's talking about his sister being dead and you

433
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 5: have you know, you were playing the scene and then

434
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 5: you had this incredible dog you're in real life, who

435
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 5: knew that you weren't acting for a moment and came

436
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,120
Speaker 5: running from backstage or whatever came to you to try

437
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 5: to make you feel better. And it was such a

438
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 5: striking scene.

439
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 3: It was so beautiful.

440
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 5: And then I was also thinking about how, you know,

441
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 5: you've done a lot of comedy and that that's primarily

442
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 5: been you know, the bulk of your career.

443
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 3: The money Maker.

444
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I'm curious about how the grief that you

445
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 5: do clearly just have access to on a moment's notice, Like,

446
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 5: how has that has that been something that you've accessed

447
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 5: as an actor or is it something that you've avoided

448
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 5: as an actor and and moved away from intentionally?

449
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 3: Yeah? Interesting, I don't I'm not afraid of it. I

450
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 3: think it actually kind of fortifies comedy to know that

451
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 3: there's a tragic side, you know, that's that there's that balance.

452
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 3: I think Fraser was always capable of being quite emotional

453
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 3: when it was important, you know. And it was like

454
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 3: when he had a scene with Niles when he says,

455
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 3: you know, that woman's never been part of this family

456
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 3: blah blah blah blah blah. I mean, and that got

457
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 3: very emotion of what I remember. There was a great

458
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 3: moment between Martin and Fraser where the boys had always

459
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 3: suspected that this one summer their dad was having an affair,

460
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 3: and it turned out that it was their mom. It

461
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 3: just felt like just like a page rip out of

462
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 3: my own life, right, And then, uh, John and I

463
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 3: both sat and thought, isn't it remarkable that we have

464
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 3: these feelings about these two people that aren't really real,

465
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 3: but they're made real by us. We give them their flesh,

466
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 3: their their life, their atmosphere, their their their emotions, and boy,

467
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,719
Speaker 3: I just it's just I mean, I was crying my

468
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 3: eyes out back then. It's about, you know, suddenly realizing

469
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 3: that you shared a grief with your parent that you

470
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,239
Speaker 3: didn't ever know about before. It was an extraordinary thing,

471
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 3: you know, I didn't really know my dad. I talked

472
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 3: about that in the book. But having the experience I

473
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 3: had with John, Having the experience I had with David

474
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 3: uh as as my brother and my father were relationships

475
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 3: I didn't have in life that I got to experience

476
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 3: because of the acting. Wow, kind of a great gift,

477
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 3: you know. I mean, that's and I feel like I

478
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 3: started to understand what that could be like like certainly,

479
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 3: I mean, probably more idealized than most. I mean, because

480
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,120
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, human beings. Who is disappointing it's

481
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,719
Speaker 3: our actual parents and then people we've known, I mean,

482
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 3: might not be quite so perfect in their revelations as

483
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 3: we are as actors, but or quite so willing to embrace,

484
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 3: you know, the emotion. But I had a wonderful it

485
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 3: was a wonderful gift to have a brother and a

486
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 3: father that I'd never had a relationship with in my

487
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 3: real life. That's cool.

488
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's I have to read a quote because as

489
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 6: an actor, it's just so stuck with me. You wrote,

490
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 6: I'm quite willing to share this theory. I think it's simple.

491
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 6: Shy people are afraid to speak the truth. Acting as

492
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 6: a professional past time in which a person can tell

493
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 6: the truth and not get in trouble.

494
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and set early on.

495
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 6: It's just it's really did. It just really resonated as

496
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 6: I read that. It's very interesting because I've always thought

497
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 6: that unless somebody really deals with the tragedy early in life,

498
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,719
Speaker 6: your childhood really kind of ends the day you realize

499
00:26:58,760 --> 00:26:59,719
Speaker 6: your parents are people.

500
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 3: Oh that's that's pretty interesting. Yeah, that's a pretty sad

501
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 3: day that first that they're like, oh.

502
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 4: No, you're not superheroes. There's something about that. It's very real.

503
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 4: But at the same time, it's like, oh, it's kind

504
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 4: of deposing.

505
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 3: It's very deflating. Yeah, shocks. Yeah, we're all perfect and

506
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 3: now that's just small people, just people.

507
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, you flawed human beings. It can't be possible. Yeah.

508
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 3: And then hopefully you have enough time to forgive them.

509
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, exactly.

510
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: Of course, you have eight kids, which, by the way,

511
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 1: feels like a totally different book you could write. You

512
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: write just a book about having eight children. What did

513
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: they know about their aunt Karen before you wrote the book?

514
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 3: Interesting? Yeah, most, I've never really told them a lot

515
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 3: about it when I started to write the book. The

516
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 3: younger set, you know, this is this group that's now

517
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 3: we just had our fourth one, so it just became

518
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 3: maate kids. It was like three days ago.

519
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 4: Oh my god, congratulation.

520
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,959
Speaker 3: Christopher, that's just joined the family.

521
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:12,959
Speaker 4: Welcome Christopher.

522
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, lovely, Yes, But so this younger group, you know,

523
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 3: I've told him they can't read the book yet because

524
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 3: some of the stuffs too brutal. Sure, they don't really

525
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 3: need to be exposed to that yet. My eldest daughter

526
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 3: of this cluster.

527
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 2: Coming clusters, when you have you can section them off.

528
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 6: However, you've got several gangs that.

529
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 3: Faith my my, you know, my thirteen year old. You know,

530
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 3: I've told her some of what happened, you know, and

531
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 3: then said, you know, maybe in another year or two

532
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 3: you can probably probably read the book and be able

533
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 3: to handle it. It's it's pretty brutal. But she's a

534
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 3: very sensitive kid too, so I do you know, I

535
00:28:55,080 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 3: want to be careful about it some. But Gabriel a

536
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 3: year old. I mentioned him in the book too, He's

537
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 3: the one that's more inquisitive. He says, how do you

538
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 3: feel about that? How does it make you feel? Does

539
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 3: your do you want to kill the guy that killed

540
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 3: your sister? Stuff like that. I said, well, that wouldn't

541
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 3: be right, babe. I'm going to take you know more.

542
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 3: Death doesn't necessarily make things right, you know. But he

543
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 3: asks really really probing questions. It's it's his thing, it's

544
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 3: what he does. He likes to find out what's going on.

545
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 3: I think he's going to be, I know, some sort

546
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 3: of weird genius side of what he'll choose in his life.

547
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 3: But but he's definitely in it with his whole heart

548
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 3: and with his whole head. And it's it's it's it's

549
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 3: fun to answer questions from someone who is so thoroughly

550
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 3: interested in the answer. Yeah, And I admire him as

551
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 3: a person. I admire his so you know, his stick

552
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 3: to his tenacity and turn in searching for the truth.

553
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 3: He's a really interesting kid.

554
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 6: They're all interesting, just curious because you touched on it

555
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,239
Speaker 6: how I mean, complex is the wrong obviously word to use,

556
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 6: but because it was so much closer to the time.

557
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 4: Of your sister's actual death.

558
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 6: What what did you feel when her killer's sentence was

559
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 6: commuted from death to life in prison?

560
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 3: Right. I was sort of on the periphery of that decision,

561
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 3: but I thought to myself, well, that's weird. These guys

562
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,719
Speaker 3: actually they received the death penalty. Yeah, and there were

563
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 3: three of them at the time. Ah, And I just thought,

564
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 3: what's going on? And it was it was actually just

565
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 3: it was toward the end of the Carter administration and

566
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 3: the Supreme Court of Colorado just did a blanket commutation

567
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 3: of all death sentences because they were reviewing everything. And

568
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 3: of course, since then, the death penalty doesn't exist in Colorado,

569
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 3: but it the life without possibility of parole did not

570
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 3: exist then as a possible sentence, and so what happened

571
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 3: was they had to they had to immediately be placed

572
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 3: into a regular kind of paroling situation, which was probably

573
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 3: inappropriate for them, but they were the only three for

574
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 3: those years, and then of course now there's just the

575
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 3: one left.

576
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 4: Wow.

577
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: I know you read the police report for the first

578
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: time for the book. How did you take care of

579
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: your mental health while reading writing this book?

580
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a really hard day. That's one of

581
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 3: the places where in the book I say I'm going

582
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 3: to be gone a while. Yeah, yeah, I'll check that

583
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 3: again in a bit, and I did. I took a

584
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 3: few weeks after the first insertion into that report, I mean.

585
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 3: And then the most devastating thing about it was the

586
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 3: was the lack of identity for Karen, was that she

587
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 3: was just a thing, just a girl, a Jane Doe,

588
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 3: a corpse, and the language reflected that, you know, ongoing investigation,

589
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 3: ongoing investigation on going first couple of her pages, they

590
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 3: had no idea what had happened or who she was,

591
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 3: and to read that just felt so dehumanizing about my sister.

592
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 3: You know it, just call me, well, that's that's Karen.

593
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 3: Surely you know that, right. But they didn't.

594
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 7: It's okay.

595
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 3: They were doing their job and you know, it got done.

596
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 3: I mean. And frankly, the police works fascinating to me

597
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 3: in terms of you know, capital cases, I guess, but

598
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 3: they didn't really. They had a stroke of luck when

599
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 3: one of the guys was arrested in New Orleans, and

600
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 3: he said, I know about the girl in Colorado. That's

601
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 3: how it came up. And then a couple of days

602
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 3: later they called me, So.

603
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: Have you ever I'm sure the answer is yes. Have

604
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: you ever thought about out what Karen would have done

605
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: with the rest of her life?

606
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, all the time. Yeah, I'm not sure what

607
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 3: it would have been, but she was she was kind

608
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 3: of a wild animal, you know. Really, she was really

609
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 3: a fun person. But she loved everybody, and she loved animals,

610
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,719
Speaker 3: so I you know, I pictures it might have been

611
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 3: on a farm somewhere. Her last her last year was

612
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 3: pretty much spent around at least the last summer, but

613
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 3: pore she went to Colorado was spent around animals on

614
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 3: a friend of ours branchi and in upstate Florida in

615
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 3: a little town called we Laka, which was it was

616
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,479
Speaker 3: pretty fun. It was great. And I visited her there

617
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 3: once and there was a wonderful swimming pole. It was

618
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 3: it was so weird. It was like it was like

619
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty feet deep and was ice cold water,

620
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 3: clear blue, and it was only like twelve feet across,

621
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 3: but you jump in it and go this is amazing experience.

622
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 3: And she and a couple of her friends were there,

623
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 3: and we all loved each other. I mean, her pals

624
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 3: and my pals. We all, we all, you know, spent

625
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 3: time together, and it was it was a great way

626
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 3: to grow up. We were a close group of young people.

627
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 3: And it's funny, Yeah, we didn't really see much of

628
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 3: our parents, weren't really around anyway. But uh we were

629
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 3: just a really nice group of kids exploring things, trying

630
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 3: things together, listening to music, you know, led that book

631
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: the Beatles, and yeah, James Taylor. It was. It was

632
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 3: a wonderful world, wonderful time, and it was kind of

633
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 3: an innocence and it did seem like it didn't seem

634
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 3: like a lot of people were getting hurt too much.

635
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 3: Every It was sort of accepting the fact that, oh,

636
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 3: we're exploring things, we're we're together, we're liking you know,

637
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 3: this this experience, we're growing up together, and uh, I

638
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 3: I kind of miss it. I don't know what. I

639
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 3: don't know what we would have done if we were

640
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 3: just on iPhones and stuff. It seems seems to be

641
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 3: more impersonal now. And we were always there was always

642
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 3: a group of us together you know, yeah, just trying things.

643
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 3: That was That was nice.

644
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: You have been open for years and in the book

645
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 1: about your own struggles with self medicating and some reckless behavior,

646
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 1: no doubt connected to what you have faced. How did

647
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: you stop that cycle?

648
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting I did do. I did about six

649
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 3: years kind of actively in the in the program, you know,

650
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 3: an AA twelve step kind of thing. But I've actually

651
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 3: turned more toward God after that, okay, and realized that, oh,

652
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 3: that's probably the avenue for me, like your sense of

653
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 3: faith and offensive sense of strength and connection to God.

654
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 3: And one thing that one of the guys I knew,

655
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 3: who was kind of an old timer and the AA

656
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 3: had said, he said, well, you know, the cause of

657
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 3: addiction is unresolved grief. M That really makes sense for me. Yeah,

658
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 3: and in a lot of ways, I got to resolve it.

659
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 3: And once that happened, you know, uh, it was pretty

660
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 3: smooth sale. And I mean I still have a drink

661
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 3: once in a while, and I enjoy a party with

662
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 3: my friends and Christmas Eve sometimes I'll have you know,

663
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 3: one toddy too many, but it's pretty but it lost

664
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 3: its teeth to like stop me from living, you know,

665
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 3: for a long time, I allowed myself to have it

666
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 3: abrupt me, have it, have it stop me, you know,

667
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 3: have it shift me away from the things I wanted

668
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,399
Speaker 3: to do. And that was that's that's the mistake you make.

669
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,240
Speaker 3: I mean, and I think, yeah, there's clearly there's clearly

670
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 3: a component of it. There's a disease that's like you

671
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 3: could do, I say, a functional disease. I suppose, But

672
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 3: it's a disease you can get over, you know. I

673
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,879
Speaker 3: mean my son, my son, one of my sons has

674
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 3: O c D. And I said, honey, it's okay to

675
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 3: like have oct but don't let it have you. And

676
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 3: it may be an oversimplification, but you can make that

677
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 3: decision about things like that. Yeah, you don't have to

678
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 3: let it have you.

679
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 4: Yeah.

680
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 3: So, I I mean, I hope my message about you know,

681
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 3: alcoholism or addiction is an encouraging one because it needn't

682
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 3: have you. You don't have to let it take that place

683
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 3: in your life. It's pretty tempting, that's, you know. And

684
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 3: there are moments when you think, oh, pole asture, do

685
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 3: need that? But then it goes away.

686
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

687
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, that the same guy, It's same guy years ago,

688
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 3: he said to me. He said, well, you know, eventually

689
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 3: the natch you know, becomes a good thing. And then

690
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 3: he said, and this whole thing one day at a time,

691
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 3: he said, nonsense. You know, after a while, you know

692
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,399
Speaker 3: you don't have to think about one day at a time.

693
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 3: He said, you know, it helps it first when you're

694
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 3: kind of a newby to think, well, if if I

695
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 3: can get through a day without drinking, that's at least something,

696
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 3: you know, he says, Noah, yeah, eventually you just know

697
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 3: you're not going to be going down that path. Yeah, yeah,

698
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,919
Speaker 3: that's it. But that grief thing really helped, And hence

699
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 3: the reason for the book in a lot of ways,

700
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 3: was to offer people to a context for why you

701
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 3: would live that way or why your grief would be overwhelming,

702
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 3: and to see that you can actually move on and

703
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 3: you can actually take it and have it incorporated into

704
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 3: your life. So that the book was always meant to

705
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 3: be a kind of not an admonishment, but but a

706
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 3: kind of an encouragement to say to somebody, remember the

707
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 3: joy as of course, remember is you know the word

708
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 3: that I you know, really focus on, but that gift

709
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 3: that those people gave you in your life, the thing

710
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 3: you're missing need to be missing all the time. You know,

711
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 3: you can reclaim that joy and and you can weep

712
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 3: that it's lost, but it's not lost. You still have it.

713
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 3: You still have it. It's up to you to go

714
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 3: ahead and dive in there and open the page and say, Hi,

715
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 3: I miss you, I love you.

716
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:54,959
Speaker 4: That's great.

717
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 6: So speaking of joy, then I have to ask what

718
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,439
Speaker 6: meant more or to you? The greatest moment you've ever

719
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:03,720
Speaker 6: experienced as an actor?

720
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 4: Or that day water skiing.

721
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, there's only so many of those, you get right,

722
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 3: that end the surfing day, the surf I disappeared through

723
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 3: the wave. I just uh, those were still the defining

724
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 3: moments of my understanding where I am in the universon

725
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 3: where the universe is with me. I still have them,

726
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 3: they're still in there. But yeah, to remember what was

727
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 3: great about that that session with Esther, which was the

728
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 3: water angel thing. Uh, I'd never seen it through Karen's eyes,

729
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 3: and that was the gift that she gave me that day,

730
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 3: was to see her vision of watching this boy in

731
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 3: the water.

732
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 4: You know, yeah, wow, amazing. Do you still ride a motorcycle?

733
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,320
Speaker 3: I do not as much? You know, my wife.

734
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 4: We had eight I mean, well, but.

735
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,439
Speaker 3: I will get another one.

736
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 6: I tell you the way you talked about your dog

737
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 6: and the way you talked about your bike, just how

738
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 6: important things were.

739
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 3: They were absolutely like, you know, talismans of my life.

740
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 3: Absolutely touch those. Yeah, that motorcycle, it was a great bike.

741
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 3: I mean there was one time, and I think it's

742
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 3: called the Texas Canyon. I was doing about one hundred

743
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 3: and thirty miles an hour. Oh my god, and it

744
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 3: was just heaven. There was nobody. There was nobody on

745
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 3: the road. It was a beautiful highway. And uh, you know,

746
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 3: there's this thing you do, but when you're going fast

747
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 3: on a motorcycle, you know, it's like you understand where

748
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 3: the center of gravity is right. And when you're really

749
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 3: going fast and you go deep into a turn, you

750
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 3: don't decelerate. You have to accelerate. You have to you

751
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,399
Speaker 3: have to crank it up a little bit. And then

752
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 3: once you crank it just a bit, the bikes stands up,

753
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 3: the bike finds its center again, and you just feel

754
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 3: so safe and secure on it. I mean, it's insane,

755
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 3: but it's not. It's just you have this the sense

756
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 3: like I am completely rooted to the universe in this moment,

757
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 3: with this man made machine that is part of me,

758
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 3: that is part of the earth. It is one of

759
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 3: those expressions of existence. I guess it just it just

760
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 3: blows your mind and it's so wonderful. And you know

761
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 3: you're going somewhere. I mean, we're doing one hundred and

762
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 3: thirty miles an hour through you know, Savage country. You

763
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 3: know they look like John Ford the landscapes, desert scapes

764
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 3: up John Wayne movies. And I was going on, you know,

765
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 3: co Cheese Valley or whatever. I was going, Man, this

766
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 3: is fantastic.

767
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 6: And something in the motorcycle maintenance exactly exactly what it was.

768
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 3: It was that experience. And I mean, I'm an eternal

769
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 3: juvenile when it comes down to that. It's just fantastic.

770
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:57,720
Speaker 3: That's great.

771
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: In your long Hollywood career, you have been a producer

772
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: multiple times.

773
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 2: Have you ever thought of turning Karen's story into a movie?

774
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 3: You know what, I haven't, but there are there were

775
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 3: some people talking to us now about the possibility of it,

776
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 3: and and you know, I'm giving it some thought. I'm

777
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:16,919
Speaker 3: giving it some thoughts.

778
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 5: You're it.

779
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 3: The important thing for me, and writing the book as well,

780
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 3: was to to invite people into the joy that we'd

781
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:28,320
Speaker 3: had together because growing up was wonderful. Growing up together

782
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 3: was wonderful. Karen and I together was it was a

783
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 3: great thing. I was closer to her than any other

784
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 3: human being in my entire life, and it just felt

785
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 3: it just fell that way. And that story when when

786
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 3: Estra said, you know, I said, looks like I just

787
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 3: was writing and I realized, oh my god, she's the

788
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 3: love of my life. And she said yes. And how

789
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 3: fortunate that you guys were born into the same family. Hmm,

790
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 3: you didn't have to spend your life looking for each other. Yeah,

791
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 3: there you were. And she said, yes, you've lived many

792
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 3: lives together. Because you know, this is when they start

793
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 3: talking about I don't know if I buy all that stuff,

794
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 3: what I kind of do? You know? I'm living in

795
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 3: LA you know we got All's the guy that reads

796
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 3: auras and angels and says, oh, yeah, you've got one

797
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 3: right there. You're telling you right now. He goes like,

798
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 3: is he talking to But he told me once he

799
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 3: told me, he said, you've lived two thy four hundred

800
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 3: and eighty five lives.

801
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 4: Okay, they're busy, busy, and you.

802
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 3: Know, whenever I go to an airport, I look at

803
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 3: all those airplanes and I see you know a quantas

804
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:38,359
Speaker 3: or you know cathe or you know whatever emirates or whatever,

805
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 3: And I think to myself, what I was? You know,

806
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 3: have I actually lived that many lives? And I've been

807
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 3: at all those places from from all those places. So

808
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 3: there's this weird thing that resonates with me. You know,

809
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 3: it probably resonates with you guys too. You think maybe

810
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 3: I've been an adventurer of it. Yeah, I circumnavigate the

811
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 3: globe once, if you still believe it's a globe, you know.

812
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,040
Speaker 3: So you know, I've got a whole bunch of.

813
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 4: Science that.

814
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 6: It would be a wonderful film, Danielle, that now I'm

815
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 6: thinking about it as a film, it would be It

816
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 6: would be a wonderful film to see.

817
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 3: It would definitely be a sumptuous kind of revisiting of

818
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 3: the seventies.

819
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm curious.

820
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 6: I know your your sister would be difficult to answer,

821
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 6: But who would you cast to play your grandfather?

822
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think of an actor that I was interesting.

823
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 3: You know, that's a really good question. Was such a

824
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 3: monumental guy? I mean I really looked up to him.

825
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, you could tell you definitely could tell.

826
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 3: I've known very few people like him who seemed to

827
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 3: show up, you know, just as surely as the sun

828
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 3: was going to rise that day, he was in it.

829
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 3: And there that's a great question I'm going to have

830
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 3: to get back to you on.

831
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 4: I'm so curious because you touched on it a little

832
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 4: bit in the book.

833
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 6: But I'm the idea that right before he passed he

834
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 6: actually opened up about the war and being at Guadalcanal.

835
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 6: Do you think and you touched on a little bit,

836
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,760
Speaker 6: you said you weren't quite sure, But looking back.

837
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 4: Do you think he knew he was sick?

838
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 3: You know what, I kind of do, But I don't

839
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 3: know if he was ready to acknowledge it right. You know,

840
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 3: I'm not even sure if he actually got a proper diagnosis,

841
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 3: because everybody seemed pretty pretty surprised when he checked in

842
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 3: and he got the diagnosis that he was riddled with,

843
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:42,320
Speaker 3: you know, c and well everybody's what you know, and

844
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 3: including him, So it's a I think he sensed that

845
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 3: he was going But that night, when he opened up

846
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 3: to me about what had happened to him, was the

847
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 3: first time he spoke to me as a man. I

848
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 3: think that was part of it. Yeah. I think part

849
00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 3: of what he was trying to negotiate with me, or

850
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 3: at least kind of a massage in me, was that

851
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 3: you're on a you're at the sort of precipice of

852
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 3: real manhood, and tragedy will will visit you, and you

853
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 3: will You need to know how to maintain your character

854
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 3: in the face of what seems like the impossible. And

855
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 3: I think maybe that's what that lesson was. And to

856
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 3: understand that in his heart it had been broken. I

857
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 3: think that he had lived with a broken heart for

858
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 3: a long time and was still brave about it because

859
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, he lost his mom when he

860
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 3: was little. His brother blamed him extraordinary things, and he

861
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 3: was a man of great accomplishment Captain of the crew

862
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 3: at Berkeley, which was pretty interesting. Wow. Yeah, he's a

863
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 3: dynamic guy and he did his part, and he was

864
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 3: kind of uh in terms of World War Two, he

865
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 3: was he was you know, he knew we were manipulating

866
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 3: in that war. He thought he knew that, you know,

867
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 3: Roosevelt kind of made plans to fight a war well

868
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 3: before we were in it, and he didn't like that,

869
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 3: but he went anyway. I mean, he left for two

870
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 3: and a half years and didn't didn't have his wife

871
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 3: or his daughter with him. And yeah, they're just amazing people, amazing.

872
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,479
Speaker 1: I did want to ask a work related question. We

873
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: have often mentioned the pilot of Cheers as an absolutely

874
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 1: perfect episode of TV on this podcasts.

875
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 2: Did you know immediately Cheers was something special?

876
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean Fraser. When I joined Cheers, it

877
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 3: was like, yeah, that was special too. I mean, I

878
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:51,959
Speaker 3: am actually writing about that right now. They're just too good,

879
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 3: so discover it again. But but Fraser was one of

880
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,399
Speaker 3: those things where it just came right off the page

881
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 3: at some point, this is this is good now. I've

882
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 3: heard Jimmy Burrows talk about the pilot of Cheers and

883
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,479
Speaker 3: said the same thing. He said, you know, they'd written

884
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 3: a script that was He said it was a script

885
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 3: for radio. He says, you could have done that script

886
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 3: success without ever seeing it. So I think that's that's

887
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 3: a really good indication of what it could be. And

888
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 3: I think I think Fraser had the same hallmark to it.

889
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 3: We had some fun with it. We got we did

890
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,280
Speaker 3: a rehearsal of it once and got a standing ovation

891
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 3: from a full house and thought, well, that's weird. We

892
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 3: weren't even filming yet. And that's when David came up

893
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 3: to me and said, say, he said, what do you

894
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 3: what do you think this means? And I said, honestly,

895
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 3: I think it means you're going to be able to

896
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 3: buy a house. He said, what doesn't mean for you?

897
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 3: And I said, I think I'm going to be able

898
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 3: to buy two houses?

899
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 6: Well, I mean that's I'm the resident television addict and historian.

900
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 4: I love it.

901
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 6: And I know that there were times where I won't

902
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 6: get into names, but other cast members of Cheers would

903
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 6: sit there at the table read and say, man, we

904
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 6: really got.

905
00:48:58,200 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 4: To get rid of the Fraser character.

906
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, well where you know, there were times it was

907
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,399
Speaker 6: very difficult and and and some people didn't even want

908
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 6: the character around. To then become what Fraser became, it

909
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 6: was truly amazing. Yeah, truly extraordiny.

910
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 3: It's a reflex.

911
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 6: And I have to ask, just because I'm such a fan,

912
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 6: what is working with James Burrows?

913
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 3: Like, Uh, Jimmy just knows his story, you know, he

914
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 3: knows the story he wants to tell. He's I called

915
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 3: a requisite disrespect he has. He has no particular respect

916
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 3: for anything he's doing except that he just knows what

917
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 3: he's doing, and it's just on an automatic pilot. You

918
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 3: don't get there unless you've done it long enough. Right now,

919
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 3: this is the this is the thing. You know. I'm

920
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 3: all for it, trying to give people jobs and stuff,

921
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,320
Speaker 3: But we got the last decade or so, we're giving people,

922
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 3: you know, directorships to people who've never directed, and you

923
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 3: keep thinking, what the hell are we doing this for?

924
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 3: And there was a whole bunch of reasons for it,

925
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 3: but lack of preparation destroyed a lot of TV lately.

926
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 3: Pople just weren't showing up. They didn't know how. Jimmy

927
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 3: Burrow shows up. He always shows up. He always knows how.

928
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 3: He sees what's wrong with the character, he sees what's

929
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 3: wrong with the story. He can look at it in

930
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 3: two seconds and say, well, you got to write that better,

931
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 3: or you got to you don't need that. And and

932
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 3: because he's earned the sort of respect that he has

933
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 3: in the industry, people just take the note and do

934
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 3: it right. It's very hard to find younger writers, especially

935
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 3: these days, who will actually take a note. You know,

936
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 3: and you think, you guys got to get the got

937
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 3: to get the hang of comedy. Comedy is a collaborative effort. Man.

938
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 3: It's not like you're sitting in some closet thinking about

939
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:36,399
Speaker 3: what's funny, and then there's a bunch of actors who

940
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 3: don't know how to make it funny, and you think

941
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 3: it's their fault. Some of the funniest, most talent people

942
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 3: in the world sitting there doing their best and it

943
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 3: ain't funny.

944
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 6: Right, Maybe do you think sitcom is gone? Do you

945
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 6: think the sitcom that we know and love is ever

946
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 6: going to come back?

947
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 3: I don't think so. Actually, I think I think it's

948
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 3: being gradually sort of reintroduce. Now. We tried with the

949
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 3: new Fraser, and you know, there was some resistance over

950
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 3: Paramount Plus and they didn't quite know what to do that.

951
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 3: I think they may have even devalued the project as

952
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 3: a result. But we were close. We were close. I

953
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 3: really liked the new show and I loved where it

954
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 3: was going to go. But we haven't really done more

955
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 3: than one season of it, right. We did twenty shows, right,

956
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 3: so that would have been oh, hi, now we know.

957
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: Who you are, right exactly.

958
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 3: There's the show now, and now we get the next

959
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 3: nine years, which is I mean the first year to

960
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 3: figure all that stuff out and have people fall in

961
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 3: love with the characters. Again, I thought we were well

962
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:38,800
Speaker 3: on our way, but they didn't know what to do

963
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 3: with it. You know. What's happening though now behind the scenes,

964
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 3: what I'm hearing is, you know, Amazon wants to put

965
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 3: commercials on. They want to make programming maybe just once

966
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 3: a week.

967
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 4: They want to go back to network TV.

968
00:51:52,080 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 3: So what a great idea. It's kind of ext but

969
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,800
Speaker 3: I mean, I know, I'm it is a wonderful medium.

970
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 3: I didn't like sitcoms when I was a kid because

971
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:08,879
Speaker 3: I thought, well, it's not theater, it's not TV, so hey,

972
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 3: you know, but it was a bit of a snob

973
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 3: and a joke.

974
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 4: So right understands.

975
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 3: Now it's the most wonderful way to kind of relate

976
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,360
Speaker 3: to the audience. It's the indulge you he acknowledge the audience.

977
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 3: You know they're there, that they laugh, you have you

978
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 3: play to them. Uh, And that's what entertainment has always

979
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 3: really been, you know. I at one point what happened

980
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 3: to Fraser when Fraser was you know, but the first

981
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 3: five years we were just swimming, and then they introduced

982
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 3: this show called When the Animals Turn on their owners.

983
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:50,280
Speaker 4: When animals attack. Yeah, right, we're competing with taking.

984
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 3: Kidding me? Who wants to sup crap like that? But

985
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 3: you know when you put an alligator next to a

986
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 3: guy and you see him chopping, you know you think, well, yeah,

987
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 3: I sound like to see that the different world. I thought, well,

988
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:07,839
Speaker 3: how the hell did that happen? And then of course

989
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 3: then we got to sex and the City and a

990
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 3: couple of By then they started the single camera comedy,

991
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 3: which of course they didn't know what to do to

992
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 3: make you laugh, so they ended up putting calypso music.

993
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 3: Whenever a laugh track would have been right, you know,

994
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 3: they just said, they just said, well, here's your cue,

995
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:31,760
Speaker 3: this is your kye. Now you can laugh. Yeah. Yeah,

996
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 3: they talk about a funny thing happened on the way

997
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 3: to the forum. In in previews that musical, it was dead.

998
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 3: They thought, what the hell are we gonna do? It

999
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 3: doesn't light up, it doesn't spark, it doesn't go. And

1000
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 3: then somebody said, well, let's tell them it's okay to laugh.

1001
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 3: And the first thing they wrote a song called comedy Tonight,

1002
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 3: and that's what opens it to night. And then suddenly

1003
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 3: it turned around and the show.

1004
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:06,839
Speaker 7: Is a success.

1005
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 3: So you've got to give them permission to laugh, right,

1006
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 3: So you have to find some way to do it.

1007
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 3: You got to give an audience the wink of the

1008
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 3: eye somewhere and say, come on in, we're going to

1009
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 3: have some fun. Yeah. Yeah, so they traded out with

1010
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 3: you know, it's not canned laughter, it's actually recorded laughter

1011
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 3: from the actual event.

1012
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:23,320
Speaker 2: Yes.

1013
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 3: Well, there were some shows where they would can't do it,

1014
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 3: you know years ago Dick Van Dyke show. Sure, no

1015
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 3: audience for that. Yeah, but it worked.

1016
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: My last question for you, if anyone is newly facing grief,

1017
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 1: like a listener has just stumbled into the death of

1018
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: a loved one, what is your advice to them, Considering

1019
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: all the work you've done to survive.

1020
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to accept this now, you're not going

1021
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 3: to get over it. It's always going to be there.

1022
00:54:55,560 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 3: And let it be impossible, Let it be awful for

1023
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 3: a while. Yeah, because you can't. You can't have it

1024
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,839
Speaker 3: go away. You just need to let it breathe and

1025
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 3: breathing you and miss that person and then slowly try

1026
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 3: to climb out and remember what was good between you

1027
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 3: and hope that you know there is justice in the world.

1028
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:25,719
Speaker 3: There really isn't a lot of the time, right, But

1029
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 3: I mean, what's happened with it, you know, some of

1030
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 3: the highly publicized stuff that's going on lately. I mean,

1031
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 3: not of those poor people have lost their their loved ones,

1032
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,879
Speaker 3: and those beautiful young women have been killed. I mean,

1033
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 3: it's just awful, awful, and to die that way, well,

1034
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 3: it is, I guess, part of the human story, you know,

1035
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 3: But it's been going on for thousands and thousands of years.

1036
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:53,760
Speaker 3: Tragic endings and horrible circumstances and people's disregard for one another.

1037
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 3: But through it all, you have a right to embrace

1038
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 3: the memory of that person and remember them, as I've

1039
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 3: said before, in the in the sumpture of their lives,

1040
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 3: and then the joy that they brought you. And it

1041
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 3: may not bring solace now, but in time, the memories

1042
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 3: of those people, that first smile you had, the first

1043
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 3: the first kiss they gave you, the first hug you felt,

1044
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:22,719
Speaker 3: the first time you wept for them because they were

1045
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:26,280
Speaker 3: in pain, whatever, all those things are precious gifts about

1046
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 3: what means in life, what means eventually everything to you

1047
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 3: in life. Those are the only things that actually mean anything. Yeah,

1048
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 3: that is that connection and someone took it away, and

1049
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 3: then you have a right to actually be upset about it.

1050
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 3: Then you have a right to expect justice. I mean,

1051
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 3: I don't think you can actually go meet it out yourself.

1052
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 3: I mean, although you know, for a long time I thought, well,

1053
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 3: I'd go kill those guys if I could, right, But

1054
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 3: you just don't let them. Don't let that memory be

1055
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 3: sold by the way they died.

1056
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:03,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1057
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 1: The book is called Karen a Brother Remembers by the

1058
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:11,320
Speaker 1: incredible Kelsey Grammar. It is available everywhere, and you should

1059
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 1: be so proud that you were able to share her

1060
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 1: story and yours with all of us. Thank you so

1061
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 1: much for being here with us today.

1062
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 3: Good pleasure. Good to see you guys.

1063
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: Good to see you.

1064
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you, thank you, Thank you too.

1065
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 7: Bye bye.

1066
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 3: Man.

1067
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 1: His ability to go from telling such a funny being

1068
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 1: so funny and telling a great story and then just

1069
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:58,919
Speaker 1: within seconds tapping into raw emotion is just unparalleled.

1070
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 6: Well, he's a genius. I mean, he's an actual genius.

1071
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 6: And that's when you read the book. One of the

1072
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 6: first things that happens to him, which is just so insane,

1073
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 6: is he's.

1074
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 8: Kicked out of Juilliard. Yeah, so it's like it's like,

1075
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 8: who the did you keep? I'd love to know, because

1076
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:21,440
Speaker 8: I mean, seriously, he's you see it just in a

1077
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,480
Speaker 8: conversation with him, but when you when you watch his work, Uh,

1078
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 8: it's insane.

1079
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 4: There's a there. He reminds me a bit of.

1080
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 6: Bill Daniels or you know, in that there's this this

1081
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 6: gravitas to him even as he's.

1082
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 4: Just sitting there.

1083
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, and and he can make a sitcom Shakespearean and

1084
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 6: there's something wonderful about that.

1085
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 4: And he's yeah, he's a living legend. I mean he

1086
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 4: really is.

1087
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, he's so open, you know.

1088
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 5: And it's about actors that I always find so is

1089
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 5: that the emotions are right there, just teeming somewhere right

1090
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 5: under this. And it's like that, you know, because you

1091
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 5: can easily think of her actors as fakers or people

1092
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 5: who you know, But like he said, it's actually being

1093
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 5: able to tell the truth. It's actually just always knowing

1094
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 5: that it's just going to flow out of you, you know.

1095
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 5: And that's why when he said he wrote the book

1096
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 5: as a stream of consciousness, is like right, because you've

1097
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 5: been training all your life for a for things to

1098
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 5: flow out of you, for the words to come out

1099
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 5: for the you know, and so that accessibility is just

1100
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 5: it's so powerful, and you know, you can see like

1101
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 5: he just we start talking about a certain subject, he's

1102
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 5: going to start crying.

1103
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 3: He's going to let it happen.

1104
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 5: He's going to let it come through, and then you know, yeah, yeah,

1105
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 5: it's an amazing thing to see.

1106
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, if his goal with the book is

1107
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 6: to introduce you to a person that by the end

1108
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 6: you feel like you know, then he did it. I mean,

1109
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:46,960
Speaker 6: you do you feel like you know this girl who

1110
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 6: was taken when she was nineteen in a horrible way.

1111
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 6: And while you do know all that about her, you

1112
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 6: also know the kind of free spirit she was and

1113
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 6: the guy she was dating and the life she was leading,

1114
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 6: and you know, going to this place and going to

1115
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 6: that place and living here and living there.

1116
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 4: That's one of the things about the two of them.

1117
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 6: They were total had total wanderlust. Both of them, you

1118
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 6: could tell, just wanted to travel and see the world.

1119
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:12,800
Speaker 6: He keeps talking about like, oh, and then I drove

1120
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 6: to San Diego again from Florida, and then I drove back,

1121
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 6: and then I drove to Texas and then I drove

1122
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 6: It's like they're not even flying to these places. They're

1123
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 6: hopping our motorcycles, they're hopping in cars, and they're experiencing

1124
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 6: the trip, the journey for them.

1125
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 1: And even when he talked about past lives and he

1126
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: talked about being on airplanes and like, I've been to

1127
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: all these places, I've done all you know, I've circumnavigated

1128
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 1: the globe.

1129
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 6: Like, yeah, yeah, it's yeah, really incredible. That might might

1130
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 6: be my favorite conversation we've had with anybody. And we've

1131
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 6: had some, we've had some great ones.

1132
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, really great. I'm so glad he came and talked

1133
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 1: to us about it. Thank you all for joining us

1134
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 1: for this episode of Pod Meets World. As always, you

1135
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 1: can follow us on Instagram pod Meets World Show. You

1136
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: can send us your emails pod meets World Show at

1137
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 1: gmail dot com.

1138
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 4: And we've got March Hug the people you love.

1139
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 1: March pod meets Worldshow dot com will send us out.

1140
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 4: We love you all, pod dismissed.

1141
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 6: Podmeets World is n iHeart podcast producer and hosted by

1142
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 6: Danielle Fischel, Wilfredell and Ryder Strong Executive producers, Jensen Carp

1143
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 6: and Amy Sugarman, Executive in charge of production Danielle Romo,

1144
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 6: producer and editor, Tara Sudbaksh producer, Maddy.

1145
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 4: Moore, engineer and Boy Meets World superfan Easton Allen.

1146
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 6: Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon and

1147
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 6: you can follow us on Instagram at Podmets World Show

1148
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 6: or email us at Podmetsworldshow at gmail dot com