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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know. This is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads packaged for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you. But you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. It's Oregon. You don't get

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Speaker 1: to consent. That's how you open up the podcast. That's right, baby,

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Speaker 1: look up one party consent laws for recording recording. Um,

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Speaker 1: this is it could happen here a podcast about when

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Speaker 1: you can legally record people without their consent. Hint always

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Speaker 1: in the state of Oregon. Um, I'm Robert Evans. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about bad things, good things, things that are good

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Speaker 1: and bad, all that stuff. Who what do we you

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Speaker 1: know what? You know what we should talk about? You

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Speaker 1: know what no one has talked about ever on the

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Speaker 1: internet lately. Josephine Robinette Rogan. Oh, I've never heard of him.

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Speaker 1: What does he do well? He has a podcast? If

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Speaker 1: you heard a podcast, Garrison, I'm unfamiliar, but just I'll

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Speaker 1: just go with it. Yeah. Well, it's like the radio,

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Speaker 1: but easier to spread disinformation, um and also sexier for

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Speaker 1: reasons that are hard to explain. Uh. And Joe Rogan

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Speaker 1: gets on his podcast and he says a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff that people think is bad, and then everybody gets

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Speaker 1: angry at him, and then he makes more money. And

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Speaker 1: today we're going to talk about how maybe we could

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Speaker 1: handle this problem differently, maybe we could not do the

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Speaker 1: same thing over and over and there's quite a different result. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and upfront, obviously we're talking about him. We're trying to

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Speaker 1: talk less about specifically what he said and more about

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Speaker 1: kind of the problem he represents in the ways in

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Speaker 1: which there was sponses people have aren't having the results

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Speaker 1: they desire. We're gonna avoid using his name in the

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Speaker 1: title of the episode or the description because that doesn't

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Speaker 1: feed into the algorithm kind of in the same way.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, Garrison, you want to kick us off here. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've been watching the Rogan thing online and be getting

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Speaker 1: kind of frustrated because of the way the discourse is going,

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Speaker 1: and it's just repeating the same loops that we see

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Speaker 1: every few months and nothing really changes. And Regan just

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Speaker 1: gets more popular, so earlier this month or like a

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Speaker 1: middle of I guess it was closer to like January. UM,

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Speaker 1: there was like a group of like two dred seventy doctors,

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Speaker 1: healthcare workers, UM and scientists who are campaigning for Spotify

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Speaker 1: to adopt a missuformation policy. UM. This was prompted by

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Speaker 1: a few episodes of the Joe Rogan podcast that we've

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Speaker 1: already actually talked about, UM about Dr Robert Malone and

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Speaker 1: someone else who said some stupid things about the pandemic. UM.

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Speaker 1: So I write when when I when we talked about

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Speaker 1: these eisodes this last time, I tried to actually talk

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Speaker 1: about what these doctors were doing and let not focus

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Speaker 1: on Rogan himself, but specifically what these doctors were doing

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Speaker 1: and their ideology, because I didn't want to add to

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Speaker 1: the whole Rogan side of the discourse. UM. And you know,

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Speaker 1: for for this, for this, like a letter that that

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Speaker 1: these doctors sent to Spotify, if they were not really

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Speaker 1: advocating for Rogan to be removed from the platform, UM

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Speaker 1: or even for episodes to be removed, just to have

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Speaker 1: Spotify clarify their guidelines regarding medical misinformation, because you know,

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Speaker 1: and it's important to note that Joe Rogan has a

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Speaker 1: exclusivity contract with Spotify. He does not work for them,

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Speaker 1: but Rogan gets paid a lot of money to get

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Speaker 1: his podcast only published on Spotify's feed. So it's it's

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Speaker 1: not it's it's it's it's like a it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a weird kind of set up, and it can give

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Speaker 1: a lot of like gray area for like, does Spotify

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Speaker 1: count that's as publisher or not. You're like, well, not really,

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Speaker 1: because they could he could also just end that contract

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Speaker 1: and post to this podcast everywhere. Um, I mean I

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Speaker 1: think it would take there. There's probably some sort of

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Speaker 1: exclusive time limit on the exclusivity agreement, etcetera. Um, because

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Speaker 1: it it is, it is mixed because they did recently

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Speaker 1: when it came out that he said the inn word

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of times, Spotify removed those episodes. So

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Speaker 1: there's a degree to which they they have acted as

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Speaker 1: a publisher. Yeah, there's a whole lot of stuff to

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Speaker 1: kind of talk about this on the So the letter

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Speaker 1: gwent kind of viral and it prompted this whole kind

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Speaker 1: of thing in the middle of January, but like deleting

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Speaker 1: your Spotify subscription and then we had musicians, most uh,

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Speaker 1: most popularly, Neil Young decides to remove all their music

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Speaker 1: from the Spotify platform, um as like a performative thing,

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Speaker 1: being like, Okay, if Spotify is gonna host all this

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Speaker 1: medical misinformation, we're going to remove this as protest. Now.

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Speaker 1: Of course, Neil Young then just signed an exclusivity deal

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Speaker 1: with Amazon, so oh great, cool. We yes, episode the

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Speaker 1: Bastion of moral purity. Yeah, and they're not. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think they are probably pay a better rate because

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Speaker 1: Spotify is pretty much at the bottom to musicians, but

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's good. Um, I think Napster actually

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Speaker 1: has the best rate, doesn't the best rate, which I

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Speaker 1: mean also, if you want to be actually moral, just

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Speaker 1: just just use band camp. But I mean I use

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Speaker 1: Spotify because it's really easy, and that's why Spotify works.

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Speaker 1: It's because it's super it is. It is a well

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Speaker 1: made product. That does not mean it's an ethical product,

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Speaker 1: but it does. It does the thing that it's supposed

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Speaker 1: to do quite well. So so yeah, it basically We've

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Speaker 1: had endless discourse since then about Joe Rogan about Spotify

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Speaker 1: is the platform, talking about how bad Spotify is, which yes,

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Speaker 1: it is bad, talking about how you know how bad

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Speaker 1: Joe Rogan is. And you know the thing is, Joe

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Speaker 1: Rogan already had the most popular podcast in the world

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Speaker 1: his exclusivity deal with Spotify, and he's currently estimated to

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Speaker 1: bring in eleven million listeners per episode of his podcast. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for for some reference, UM, Behind the Bastards is one

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Speaker 1: of the largest podcasts out there. Um, and he's on

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Speaker 1: average something like ten times our traffic. Uh. Like it's

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Speaker 1: and it's not, He's not. He's not just the most

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Speaker 1: popular podcast. He helped invent what podcasting podcast? He was

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Speaker 1: one of the first, and like he had a foundational

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Speaker 1: role in how the entire industry works. Since this letter

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Speaker 1: and since he's episodes, there's been a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: discourse around if Spotify should remove Joe Rogan from the platform, Um,

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Speaker 1: if they should cancel his deal. You know, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people calling on Spotify to do that. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people are calling on Spotify to remove certain episodes,

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Speaker 1: and Spotify has not been teen too so like, but

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Speaker 1: let's and I know, Joe Rogan himself did actually authorize

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Speaker 1: the removal of a certain amount of episodes, which for

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Speaker 1: reasons we'll talk about later. Um, but what's all this

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Speaker 1: discourse and outrage and articles and tweets actually doing to

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Speaker 1: Spotify into Rogan? Okay? In my opinion, kind of the

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Speaker 1: end result is actually very similar to all of the

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Speaker 1: free advertising that companies get whenever they make awoke statement

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Speaker 1: that infuriate, that infuriates the actionary right, you know, resulting

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Speaker 1: in throwing your kel out your window, flushing your Gillette

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Speaker 1: blade down the toilet, and burning your nikes. And it's

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Speaker 1: even widely speculated and kind of like a known fact

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Speaker 1: that companies will use progressive statements and policies to drum

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Speaker 1: up this outrage um to give their company and product

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Speaker 1: tons of free advertising and just to get the brand

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Speaker 1: name itself in the side consumers heads. And this is

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Speaker 1: definitely happening. Was was Rogan and Spotify in terms of

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Speaker 1: outrage being used as advertising. It may not be intentional,

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Speaker 1: but that is what the result is. Yeah, And I

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Speaker 1: mean it's very uh. It's it's both sides like to

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Speaker 1: make fun of the other for doing this, like folks

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Speaker 1: on the left like to make fun of their right

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Speaker 1: when they're when they're breaking their carriggs or whatever. Um,

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Speaker 1: But you know, it happens. It's equally profitable for both sides.

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Speaker 1: You just do the opposite, you know, you have someone

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Speaker 1: come on and talk about how they're a truth teller

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Speaker 1: being canceled, and they get a bunch of attention money

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Speaker 1: and and it works equally well both ways, pretty much. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So with Spotify and Rogan in the news every day

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Speaker 1: for the past like three weeks, the the the end

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Speaker 1: is that like the fact that it's just that people

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Speaker 1: are hearing these names in their head more often, and

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Speaker 1: they're probably subconsciously gonna use Spotify more often because you know,

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Speaker 1: despite a few people that might cancel their subscriptions, the

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Speaker 1: net effect will be more listeners who seem to Spotify

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Speaker 1: because there because the name is in my subconscious it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's in there. And all the effect it's gonna

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Speaker 1: have on Rogan is giving him a way more publicity

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Speaker 1: to attract new listeners, and and it's listeners who themselves

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Speaker 1: are like attracted to unconventional ideas outside the mainstream, and

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Speaker 1: his more passive listeners are gonna like double down on

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Speaker 1: him because there's gonna be like the backfire effect, so

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Speaker 1: they will like feel defensive and then become more of

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Speaker 1: a fan of his. Because he's seen as a cultural outsider,

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Speaker 1: even though he's not an outsider. He is the mainstream,

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Speaker 1: he's the biggest podcaster in the world, but he's seen

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Speaker 1: as a cultural outsider. So you know, he like brings

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Speaker 1: on guests who say things that they're not supposed to say.

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Speaker 1: You know, so, who's actually going to be convinced by

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Speaker 1: all this outrage to not listen to Rogan via pointing

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Speaker 1: out all the wrong things he's said and all the

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Speaker 1: slurs he's used, Like, is that really going to stop

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Speaker 1: fans from listening to Joe Rogan. It's the same thing

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Speaker 1: really pointing out that Donald Trump illegally took classified documents.

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Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, I mean that's fucked up and ship,

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Speaker 1: but like he's never going to get charged with crimes

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Speaker 1: and none of his supporters care. You're the only people

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Speaker 1: who are angry about this, and it doesn't matter because

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Speaker 1: the people you vote for aren't going to punish him,

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Speaker 1: So like, just you know, chill out a little bit.

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Speaker 1: It's like all of the outrage is simply inflating the

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Speaker 1: importance of jo Rogan on like an entire cultural level.

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Speaker 1: It's that he's becoming he's becoming more important to his fans,

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Speaker 1: more important to his haters, and more important to himself

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Speaker 1: and Spotify as an asset because he generates a lot

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Speaker 1: of exclusive listeners and news coverage and buzz around the

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Speaker 1: Spotify brand. And it's important to talk about like so

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Speaker 1: you have broadly speaking within the field of entertainment, like

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Speaker 1: digital entertainment in particular, you have like two ways that

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Speaker 1: you can grow your audience. One of them is organic growth,

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Speaker 1: which is know, I listened to Garrison's podcast, I like it.

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Speaker 1: I tell a friend about Garrison's podcast. They like it.

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Speaker 1: They tell a friend about Garrett that that's like organic,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's very natural. That's purely the kind of

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Speaker 1: quality of the content UM reaching people. And then there

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Speaker 1: is in organic growth, which is can be the result

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Speaker 1: of like ad campaigns can be the result of UM

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Speaker 1: an algorithm. Often in today we're talking about like oh,

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Speaker 1: Twitter or Facebook prioritizes this kind of content. So like

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Speaker 1: something article on bright Barred about black on white crime

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Speaker 1: that would have been read ten thousand times ten years

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Speaker 1: ago gets read a million times because it spreads well

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Speaker 1: on this platform for reasons that aren't organic UM. And

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Speaker 1: with Joe Rogan, one of the reasons why because we

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Speaker 1: can talk about like d platforming, if you want to

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Speaker 1: talk about like Alex Jones for example, or Meloianopolis, good

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Speaker 1: case that d platforming really reduced both of their reaches. Now,

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Speaker 1: Milo uh pretty much wiped out as a person who

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Speaker 1: mattered in terms of the dispoce thank christ. Alex Jones

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Speaker 1: less so. Um, it definitely hurt his busines this and

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Speaker 1: it reduced his reach. But by the time Facebook and

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Speaker 1: Twitter and whatnot started throttling him, he he had already

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Speaker 1: inorganically increased his reach enough that like he's able to,

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Speaker 1: he had he had a large a large enough audience

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Speaker 1: to stay somewhat relevant and keep going. The thing about

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Speaker 1: Joe Rogan is he did not get famous and popular

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Speaker 1: in organically. I'm sure there was some degree of that

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Speaker 1: on like social media, but most of his growth before that.

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Speaker 1: Like people like him, Like whatever you think of him,

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Speaker 1: he's a good broadcaster. That's That's the thing. Even though,

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Speaker 1: like you know, for all this research, I don't like him.

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Speaker 1: He says horrible things, But you know, I was watching

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Speaker 1: I watched all of like Rogan's like um, like uh

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Speaker 1: Instagram videos he made like a few ten minute things

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Speaker 1: talking about the outrage, and it's it sucks because when

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Speaker 1: you listen to him, he's like a really good talker.

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Speaker 1: He's very good at what he does. Yeah, he's very

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Speaker 1: good at like generating sympathy and generating like good card

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Speaker 1: Like It's it sucks because yeah, I wanted to like

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Speaker 1: hate this person, but I'm like listening to him talking

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Speaker 1: about this issue like oh wow, yeah, like you actually

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Speaker 1: have a decent grasp of what's going on here. UM,

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Speaker 1: And that's he is, not he part of he gets

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Speaker 1: some of his money from playing like a dumb, chill

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Speaker 1: stoner dude, but he's not dumb. He's definitely a stoner.

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Speaker 1: He's not a dumb man. He's very intell. He's very

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Speaker 1: good at what he does. UM. One of the things

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Speaker 1: we don't kind of talk about enough when we talk

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Speaker 1: about media that I think is important to note is

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Speaker 1: that UM being likable in a professional sense is a skill.

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Speaker 1: And it's a skill like any technical skill. It's like

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Speaker 1: knowing how to how to how to farm or weld. UM.

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Speaker 1: It is a thing that you build on over time.

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Speaker 1: It is a thing that UM takes a lot of

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Speaker 1: trial and error and a lot of education to get right. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it is a thing that Joe Rogan has been doing

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Speaker 1: for longer than a significant chunk of the people on

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Speaker 1: this show, including Garrison, have been alive. Uh. It's like

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Speaker 1: like I've been like this is this is more or

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Speaker 1: less been my job for like thirteen or fourteen years,

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Speaker 1: and it is like a skill that you build and

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Speaker 1: the thing that he is really good at is making

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Speaker 1: but want to listen to him. And so if you

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Speaker 1: were to say, kick him out of Spotify tomorrow, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's entirely possible that his that that would increase

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Speaker 1: the number of people who when there's there's a case

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Speaker 1: to be made that Spotify has limited his maximum audience,

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Speaker 1: limiting him to Spotify as opposed to if he was

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Speaker 1: just any app he wanted to be on, maybe it'd

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Speaker 1: be twenty million, you know, listening to every exactly. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Like even if did even a Spotify did drop him

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Speaker 1: because of all these you know, outrage you know, and

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Speaker 1: all the tweets and all of the petitions, even if

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Speaker 1: they did drop him, he would probably not only gain

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Speaker 1: more listeners due to the outrage porn and and free

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Speaker 1: speech advocates, but also with his exclusivity ending help his

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Speaker 1: podcast will just be available and more platforms and more

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Speaker 1: people who will to listen to him, like really easily.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, he's only going to grow if people get

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Speaker 1: what they want. And like that makes you think, like this,

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Speaker 1: this outrage isn't actually meant to get the Joe Rogan

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Speaker 1: Joe Rogan problem taking care of, Like it's this, This

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Speaker 1: actually isn't about stop being misinformation. It's this, This isn't

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Speaker 1: actually about having they're being less fans of Joe Rogan.

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Speaker 1: All those outrages about making you feel better because you

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Speaker 1: feel like you're doing something right, Like bad thing is

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Speaker 1: happening in the world, and it's easier to pretend like

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Speaker 1: your actions are hurting it than it is to accept that,

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Speaker 1: like maybe there's nothing I can do about this right now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it would be a really nice world if the Cho

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Speaker 1: Rogan problem could be solved so easily by Spotify dropping

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Speaker 1: his exclusivity deal, right, that would that would be great,

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Speaker 1: But that's not the world we live in. And tricking

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Speaker 1: yourself into thinking that is just kind of delusional. Um,

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Speaker 1: And like yeah, it makes you feel better, but like

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Speaker 1: that's not actually helping because like, yeah, we can obviously

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Speaker 1: compare this to other like D platforming campaigns with people

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Speaker 1: for like Alex Jones. But you know, Jones was way

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Speaker 1: more niche and way more extreme around the time of

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Speaker 1: his like D platforming campaign, and his campaign wasn't about

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Speaker 1: ending exclusivity deals. It was about getting him off of

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Speaker 1: popular platforms altogether. And that's not happening with Joe Rogan

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Speaker 1: because Joe Logan isn't saying the things that are going

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Speaker 1: to get him booted from platforms. He's smart, he knows

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Speaker 1: what he can and cannot say. He's not He's not

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Speaker 1: dumb enough to get banned from these platforms, right and also,

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Speaker 1: you know he's a giant financial asset, so they wouldn't

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Speaker 1: bend him anyway. But like he's he's what he's doing

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Speaker 1: is bringing on people who say horrible things to continue

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Speaker 1: a cultural conversation, which gets him in the headlines and

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Speaker 1: gives a platform like Spotify a whole bunch of room

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Speaker 1: to cry free speech and get away with it. Removing

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Speaker 1: Alex Jones could be seen as like a monetary decision

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Speaker 1: in and of itself, because it is actually removing liability.

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Speaker 1: But this is this isn't really the case for Rogan. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and he's um, yeah, it's just not. One of the

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Speaker 1: problems is that this kind of does fly in the

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Speaker 1: face of a lot of what people want to think.

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Speaker 1: And I don't want to be making the case that

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Speaker 1: it's as black and white it is, because, for example,

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that it was bad for someone to

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Speaker 1: go through the effort of finding and pointing out, Hey,

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Speaker 1: there's like seventy episodes where Joe Rogan drops the inn word,

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Speaker 1: um and getting those polls. I don't think that I

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Speaker 1: think that that was broadly speaking, a productive thing. But

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Speaker 1: keeping Joe Rogan at the forefront of the outrage cycle

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Speaker 1: is doing nothing but printing money for the guy. And

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Speaker 1: that's that's not an easy thing to deal with because

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Speaker 1: it's like, do you want me to just like stay

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Speaker 1: quiet in the face of injustice? And it's like, no,

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Speaker 1: that's not what I want you to do. But I

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Speaker 1: do want you to recognize that there are times in

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Speaker 1: ways of speaking up that are just yes, putting putting

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Speaker 1: gasoline on an injustice fire. It's it's important to remember

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Speaker 1: that d platform ng is just a tactic, and and

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Speaker 1: single tactics aren't always effective in every situation. That's what

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Speaker 1: makes them a tactic, right, Like, in order for a

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Speaker 1: tactic to work, you need to understand the scenario that's

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Speaker 1: are applying the tactic to and seeing if that tactic

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Speaker 1: achieves the goal. And if it doesn't, great, But if

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Speaker 1: it doesn't, you need to choose other tactic and stop

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Speaker 1: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting

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Speaker 1: a new result. And this is one of those situations

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Speaker 1: where like when you bring up, hey, maybe nothing might

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Speaker 1: be the best thing, at least for for most people

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Speaker 1: specifically to do. Like the thing that gets brought up

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Speaker 1: is like, well do you not want me to uh?

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Speaker 1: Or like, well, what do you suggest I do? Like

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Speaker 1: you know, you're saying I shouldn't do this, but you're

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Speaker 1: not telling me what to do. And it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: it's like if somebody gets shot in the leg and

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Speaker 1: one person has a tourniquet and the other person has

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Speaker 1: a bunch of razor blades that they want to throw

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Speaker 1: in their eyes, and it's like, well, what do you

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Speaker 1: want me to do? All I have is these razor blades.

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Speaker 1: This is the only other thing I can do? Then

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Speaker 1: just stand by and do nothing. And it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: in this case, doing nothing is the best thing to do,

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Speaker 1: because it's it's not that's not going to help the problems.

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Speaker 1: Boycotts of this scale kind of only tend to benefit

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Speaker 1: brands and businesses, right like, because if if if the

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Speaker 1: brand of business is a person is smaller in more

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Speaker 1: niche like and say like Alex Jones or Richard Spencer,

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Speaker 1: right then yes, these tactics about boycotts can really work

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Speaker 1: to push things out of the cultural like market and

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Speaker 1: also in some cases in terms of businesses like the

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Speaker 1: literal market. But when you're dealing with things like Target, Nike,

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Speaker 1: and Joe Rogan, that's not the case because those brands

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Speaker 1: are way too big. Any any you know, any conservative

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Speaker 1: boycott against Target isn't going to have that effect. It

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Speaker 1: will probably make weird liberals be like, oh, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go to Target now because the conservatives don't want me to.

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Speaker 1: It's so like it's I don't It's not it's it's like,

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Speaker 1: it's the problem is It's like Joe Rogan himself isn't

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Speaker 1: really the problem either. You know, a lot of the

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Speaker 1: problem can be seen more as like content algorithms that

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Speaker 1: boost and reward misinformation and disinformation and conspiracism, and that's

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Speaker 1: more of like an actual issue at hand here. Joe

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Speaker 1: Rogan is just a business. That's how he hears about

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Speaker 1: a lot of these people. Yeah, I go viral somewhere else.

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Speaker 1: And in a lot of cases it's an inorganic thing

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Speaker 1: that brings them in front of them. It's some fucking

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Speaker 1: algorithm that and and that is a case where you

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Speaker 1: can target and work on deep exact form and it

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Speaker 1: can be more productive that that. That was, That was

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Speaker 1: what that was what I was getting again, It's like

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Speaker 1: Joe Joe Rogan himself was just a visible outgrowth of

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Speaker 1: the core problem. And the core problem is these things

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Speaker 1: getting onto his show in the first place. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: we can't stop his show, but maybe we should do

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Speaker 1: more work to prevent to like figure out ways to

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Speaker 1: do you know, start using these tactics to prevent algorithms

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Speaker 1: from boosting these things so that Jojo can sees them

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Speaker 1: and then and then invites them on. And yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a lot more work than just being angry at Spotify.

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Speaker 1: And yet maybe it will actually do something. And one

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Speaker 1: thing that can do something is with spot and it

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Speaker 1: won't work if it's just Spotify. But I am one

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Speaker 1: of those people who thinks that maybe it's not the

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Speaker 1: worst thing if things like Spotify are seen as publishers

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Speaker 1: and thus when they spread misinformation that leads to disastrous

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Speaker 1: health consequences, UM, they can be held liable. Right. Uh,

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Speaker 1: that's not the worst possible change, although it is a

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Speaker 1: problematic one. I don't want to like boil that down

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Speaker 1: to a simple question, but I think that's an avenue

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Speaker 1: that should be explored, because I don't see that there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of difference in Spotify choosing to let something

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Speaker 1: go to air or The New York Times printing misinformation. UM.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, Spotify is going to reach more people

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Speaker 1: because nobody cares what The New York Times says anymore. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so Spotify. The Spotify CEO did kind of address the

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Speaker 1: ongoing controversy around the you know, internal publishing stuff and

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Speaker 1: how they view medical misinformation. UM. They did adopt a

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Speaker 1: clarified policy that prohibits content that promotes dangerous, false, or

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Speaker 1: dangerous deceptive medical information which may cause offline harm or

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Speaker 1: pose a direct threat to public health. UM. And then

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Speaker 1: the post also announced that a Spotify would add content

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Speaker 1: advisories to any content related to COVID on the platform,

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Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram have Um No, it's not, it's not.

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Speaker 1: It's not. Actually it's not. But if you have the operation,

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Speaker 1: if you can again, if there is like an actual

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Speaker 1: dollar consequence to companies that aired massive disinformation, um, then

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Speaker 1: you're not without sort of making Joe Rogan the focus.

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Speaker 1: You can make it so that the people that he

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Speaker 1: actually is accountable to, which is the people who make

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Speaker 1: him give him the money that he gets, how a

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Speaker 1: vested interest in tamping down on the worst excesses that

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Speaker 1: he's responsible for, Like that might have an impact. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, Like part of the problem is that. And

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Speaker 1: one thing we should acknowledge here when we're talking about

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Speaker 1: like what would work better than what's being done, This

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Speaker 1: is a pretty new problem. Versions of it have existed before,

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Speaker 1: but without the Internet and without podcasts being what they are,

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Speaker 1: this is a pretty new thing to be dealing with.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not I don't I'm not saying like this

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Speaker 1: is here's the obvious solution to this, But I think

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Speaker 1: we are trying to point out, like what folks are

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Speaker 1: doing doesn't work. The tactics being applied are not effective,

427
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 1: and we should be exploring other opportunities to mitigate this harm.

428
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 1: That are not well, I guess it's time to delete

429
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,359
Speaker 1: another app and post about it on Twitter. Yeah. I

430
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 1: think I think this is especially a thing with like

431
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:49,880
Speaker 1: because like one of the other things that that's been

432
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 1: popping up as broken's like weapons great transphobia. So yeah, jeesus,

433
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 1: and that's that stuff us is horrifying. Like the racism

434
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 1: is also like really bad. He's extremely sexist. But it's

435
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:07,679
Speaker 1: like I think misogynists racist all there's a lot of

436
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 1: money and being that dude. Yeah, well, and I think

437
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 1: this is sort of you know, this, this is you know,

438
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 1: this is an inherent problem for the left because fighting

439
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 1: it like this this kind of sort of like shock

440
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: truck information stuff works better like that that rage economy

441
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 1: works better for the right thing does for the left.

442
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 1: And I think in some ways that means like you

443
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 1: have to fight them in other spaces, like you know,

444
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,679
Speaker 1: you you can't just like keep throwing yourself. It's the

445
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: same thing with like so why why why you don't

446
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: have just like one line where you just run into

447
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,479
Speaker 1: a bunch of cops over and overget in one spot, right, like,

448
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 1: but we have certainly try. Yeah. Yeah, it's like some

449
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,360
Speaker 1: folks gave the old college, the old college. Yeah, like

450
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's like in some in some sense, yeah,

451
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 1: like it's it's it's it's it's hard to be too

452
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 1: hard on these on people who doing this, and it's

453
00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 1: like I think they're doing the right thing. But it's

454
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 1: like you have to you have to pick your battles.

455
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 1: And you know, if if you're taking a fight that's fair,

456
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 1: like that's a that's a bad fight, that is a

457
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,719
Speaker 1: bad fight for you. You you you need you need

458
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,679
Speaker 1: to be fighting them in different spheres. You need to

459
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 1: be you know, I mean, working for example, on stuff

460
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: like tech regulation, like you like working on you know,

461
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 1: unionizing these places, right like fighting purely finding them in

462
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: information space, we will lose every time. The advantage that

463
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: we have is that we also do other things. And

464
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: it's it's you know, we're we're going to keep losing

465
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: hearing if you know, if we keep fighting them in

466
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: exactly the same way here, we're going to keep losing.

467
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 1: So we have to you know, like we we we

468
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 1: we we have to fight in other places. And that's

469
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 1: hard and it sucks because you know, this is such

470
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 1: a misspart of just what reality is now is you know,

471
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: yelling people online, but like, you have to stop doing

472
00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 1: that because it's not not not. The problem is that

473
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 1: we've all gotten fucking caught for quite some time in

474
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: this escalating culture war, and it's not. It's not a

475
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: battleground that can be entirely ignored because when you kind

476
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: of seed ground them, they create conspiracy theories about trans

477
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,159
Speaker 1: people attacking kids that lead to them murdering people in

478
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 1: the streets, or they spread conspiracy theories about masks that

479
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: lead to them occupying Ottawa. Um. So it can't. The

480
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: culture war battleground cannot be ignored. But at the end

481
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: of the day, what we should rather than just like

482
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: seeking new ways to engage with it, because the more

483
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: you engage with it, and it is sometime necessary to

484
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: engage with but the more you engage with it, the

485
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: stronger you make this whole thing and the heavier it

486
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: lies on all of us like a cloud. And in

487
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 1: the only real way to actually win in the long

488
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: run is to find a way to get off of that,

489
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 1: to get out of this like this fucking treadmill of

490
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: bullshit that has become everything all consuming, and it's it's

491
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: in a lot of people best interest for it to

492
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: stay all consuming um and I there's a there's a

493
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: lot that's going on here, because it's not I think

494
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 1: sometimes when you criticize people for the actions they take

495
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 1: in situations like this, they kind of interpreted as you saying, well,

496
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 1: like you're stupid and you fucked up and never should

497
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 1: have liked done this, and and the way I think

498
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: of it as more like this is a we have

499
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: found ourselves trapped in a really messy situation and no

500
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: one has figured out how to get out. So it's

501
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: not a situation of like people are are dumb for

502
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: having done something that's not effective. It's a situation of

503
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 1: we are all trying to figure out what works in

504
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 1: this new world we have kind of somewhat accidentally somewhat

505
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: purposefully built for ourselves, and it is important to have

506
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: humility and be willing to accept it, like, you know what,

507
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: that's not working and we have to stop doing the

508
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: thing that's not working, rather than you know, treat it

509
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: as if it's sort of a moral failing that something

510
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: we we we tried was not effective. The last thing

511
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: is it's like, really, it's it's not just the non effectiveness,

512
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: but also the the idea that the fact that this

513
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: outrage is said, just a constant is just a constant

514
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 1: free bannerad for Spotify every everywhere online is like also

515
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 1: not great. So it's not it's not even not not

516
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: even just not effective. But you're just giving a corporation

517
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: tons of free press. And maybe we can reframe the

518
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: way we approach these things so that we don't do that,

519
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: because in the end, that's just kind of adding to

520
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 1: promoting the misinformation. That's kind of that's all that's kind

521
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: of really doing. And it's not, that's not nearly as

522
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: you know, impactful as you know, just Rogan doing it himself,

523
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: but it's still is it still is a contributing factor

524
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: and and and it it does contribute to the backfire

525
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: effect of people who listen to his podcast. Maybe people

526
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: who like don't even but they're still gonna get defensive

527
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: over him because they're seeing this attack on him. And

528
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 1: even though he's even though he is a huge figure,

529
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: he's seen as an outsider. So that that really does

530
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 1: contribute to that back backfire fact thing of getting people

531
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,719
Speaker 1: more and more vested in him as a content creator.

532
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's really dumb, But the thing we need

533
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: to deal with it it's it's a version of the

534
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: lesson people still didn't learn with Trump, which is that like,

535
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 1: you can't you can't beat these people by dunking on them.

536
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter that Joe Rogan said something dumb. It

537
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: doesn't matter that Joe Rogan is inconsistent, it doesn't matter

538
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 1: that like Joe Rogan has tells lies or whatever. That's

539
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: not going to change anybody's mind about the dude, because

540
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: it's not about Joe Rogan. They don't support him because

541
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: they love They support him as much as anything. The

542
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: people who are at least engaging, primarily online about it,

543
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 1: Most of his fans are just don't think about any

544
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: of this because they're not as online as the rest

545
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: of us. But the people who are kind of engaging

546
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: with this and helping to fuel the culture war side

547
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: of this thing, they don't care there this This isn't

548
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: about his inherent characteristics. This is about it's a chance

549
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: to dunk on the enemy. Um, So you're not going

550
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: to convince them of anything ever. That's all I had

551
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 1: to say on this. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, because again,

552
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: I really I really resisted writing this episode for a

553
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: long time because I didn't want to add to the

554
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: Rogan discourse. But after a while, the Rogan discourse itself

555
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: became worth talking about. How we talk so because it

556
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: is more of a meta angle, like, okay, that is

557
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: actually worth talking about. But yeah, I am so tired

558
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: of hearing, watching, and seeing the words still Rogan. Yeah,

559
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 1: I'm exhausted by it. I hate that. Like it's a

560
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: bigger story in the United States than the gigantic war

561
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: that might break out in Eastern Europe. Um, it's it's

562
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: just just a very frustrating time and the only way

563
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: to win this particular game is not to play. Um.

564
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: So that's that's why we're doing this. We're not going

565
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: to stick his name in the description or the episode title.

566
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: Um yeah it is. You know. The title we were

567
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: working with this under that we're not going to use

568
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: so as to not feed into the algorithm was Joe

569
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: Rogan the Egregor And that is really how I think

570
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: about it. If you if you haven't listened to our

571
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: episode on the book about the Flat Earth, book on

572
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards that talks about as Um and eggs,

573
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: it's basically a god that is made up by the

574
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: kind of directed thoughts of a population of people. Yeah,

575
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: it's like a costalt deity that exists, like this thought

576
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: form that if people put energy into it, it almost

577
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: gains its own it's it's own like um um independence

578
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: from the people that that like burst it, even though

579
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: it is just like a thought form and it because

580
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: it was just an idea or presence, and now it

581
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: basically is its own god that's self sustaining and it

582
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: can impact the world. Yeah, global capital is an egregor

583
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: And and the more that people kind of feed into

584
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: the discourse around Joe Rogan, the more he turns into

585
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: one kind of outside of his own actions, he this

586
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: idea of him has an influence on everything around us.

587
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: And boy, we don't need that, do we certainly did not.

588
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: Just said we just put that one down, right, try

589
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: something else. Yeah, let's throw a brick at your sheriff instead.

590
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: This will go better for you. I mean sure, sure, Chris, Yeah, Chris,

591
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: Chris said it, not me. Yeah, I mean obviously in

592
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: Minecraft he said bricks. It's fine. Robert Robert, Robert Robert.

593
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,479
Speaker 1: It's not Minecraft anymore. It's the roadblocks the Feds cracked

594
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: in Minecraft. Yeah, you're right, it's going to take weeks

595
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: for them, for them to their computers to realize what

596
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: roadblocks is. The look was a story I think I

597
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: saw on Twitter about like like some yeah, so some

598
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: some kids who actually legitimately got arrested in Brushford, like

599
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: blowing up a building in Minecraft, so like like literally

600
00:30:54,760 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: so we live in h yeah and instead again it's

601
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: roadblocks where nothing bad happens. Nothing bad happens, all right,

602
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: everybody get on roadblocks, um and don't talk about Joe Royan,

603
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: and don't talk about Joe Rogan. Hundreds of truckers continue

604
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: to rule least and with wards joining the movement. With

605
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: each passing city, feelings towards vaccine mandates have heightened. Advocate

606
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: civil war. If people don't want to stand up, we

607
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: got guns. We'll stand up and we'll bring them off.

608
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: Sucking a guys, let's get pumped for this. Let's go

609
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: to fucking Ottawa. Let's I want to see one of

610
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: those truckers. I wouldn't probably not not known our guys obviously,

611
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: but I would like to see our own January six event.

612
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: See some of those truckers plow right through that sixteen

613
00:31:53,520 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: football ye, welcome to It could happen here or in

614
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: this case, it did happen here, slashes still happening here,

615
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: and uh the here in this case being Canada in

616
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: recent weeks. The idea of only a few thousand people

617
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,479
Speaker 1: totally choking a major city, holding it hostage to bargain

618
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: for political demands, while overwhelming and getting a foot up

619
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: on law enforcement, taking over and shutting down a sizeable

620
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: portion of a popular metropolitan area and simultaneously blocking off

621
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: supply lines, trade routes, and multiple international border crossings is

622
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: exactly the kind of thing this podcast has been talking

623
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: about for years as a potential anti government resistance tactic

624
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: that could become more common as political tensions rise in

625
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: North America. Specifically, a few weeks ago, when the so

626
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: called Trucker Convoy was still its planning stages, I wasn't

627
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: super eager to cover it on the pod. Actually, I

628
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: assumed it would be a flop and just another dumb

629
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: anti COVID protest in a long line of anti COVID

630
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: protests happening in Canada. Flash forward to me at the

631
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: end of January, and it became apparent that I was

632
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: sorely mistaken and this thing was shaping up to be

633
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: a significant factor in Canada's political ecosystem going forward. In

634
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: my haste to catch up to the moment, I recorded

635
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: two episodes with the wonderful journalist Dan Cullen, explaining the

636
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: situation as it was at the prospective times of recording.

637
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: But as the tensions in Ottawa and all across Canada

638
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: arose and the situation gained more and more complexity, I

639
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: decided that the convoy and subsequent blockades required a more

640
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: researched and scripted deep dive. The more I dug into

641
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: the situation, the more it seems to embody the exact

642
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: thing I was warning about in my two previous scripted

643
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: episodes about Canada and the far right, titled Canadian Fascism A.

644
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 1: The apologies for the title, but you can find those

645
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: if you scroll through the could Happen Here feed. Don't

646
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: think they came out around November ish. What I wanted

647
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: to get across in those episodes is that Canada is

648
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: often seen as an escape from the more divisive, violent,

649
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: and fascist elements of US politics and culture. But just

650
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: like climate change, capitalism, or any other enveloping force cough cough,

651
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: hyper objects cough cough, fascism and the slide towards it

652
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 1: can never be truly escaped right. There is no other,

653
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,959
Speaker 1: there is no away, and it's especially hard to see

654
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 1: it when it's growing on the back of your own head,

655
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: primarily through Islamophobia. Far right ethno nationalist tendencies have been

656
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: bubbling under the surface of Canada for a long while,

657
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: and since Trudeau has taken office in twenty fifteen, there

658
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: has been a perfect politically allowed boogeyman to blame every

659
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: problem onto That can include everything from Trudeau was taking

660
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 1: away our oil and gas jobs, or Trudeau is bringing

661
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 1: in Muslim terrorists to Canada, uh, or Trudeau is starving

662
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 1: your children through health mandates. Canadian right wing protests has

663
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 1: been steadily growing the past five years. There's been multiple

664
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 1: flare ups of far right rhetoric with the Canadian Yellow Vests,

665
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: the Westerns that protesced we Exit or Western Exit movement,

666
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 1: and the pseudo fascist People's Party of Canada. The incorporation

667
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 1: of pandemic conspiracies and anti vaccine sentiments into the already

668
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: disaffected rural Canadian right wingers starting and continuing to the present,

669
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: has accelerated not only the conspiratorial fall right rhetoric among

670
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: conservative voters, but also what is seen as a valid

671
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 1: political action in those people's eyes. But before we get

672
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: into how the convoy started with anger concerning COVID nineteen

673
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: health man dates and misinformation concerning empty store shelves, we

674
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: have to first go back in time to even before

675
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: the COVID nineteen virus was a blip on anyone's radar.

676
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: In February, the Canadian Yellow Vests organized something called the

677
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 1: United We Roll Convoy. The result was around a hundred

678
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: seventy trucks driving cross country through the more liberal East

679
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: to Ottawa. The result was around a hundred seventy trucks

680
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: driving from the West cross country to the more liberal

681
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,280
Speaker 1: East and eventually to Ottawa. The goal was to represent

682
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: the concerns of disenfranchised oil and gas workers in the

683
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: Western provinces and their opposition to propose environmental and new

684
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: energy policies. Yellow Vests Canada was largely founded by individuals

685
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: already associated with Canada's far right, which at the time

686
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: was primarily united through anti Muslim racism and m phobia.

687
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: Inspired by the French Heelovest movement, they copied their aesthetics

688
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: and adopted new grievances and reactionary matoric and we get

689
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: them a much larger audience. By the time United We

690
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: Roll arrived in Ottawa, the media started to catch on

691
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: to the more problematic elements about their organization, Neo Nazi

692
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: faith goal each spoke on a stage, many members of

693
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,479
Speaker 1: hate groups responded in attendance, and with the numbers so low,

694
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 1: it made their more extreme participants stick out. Instead of

695
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: focusing the message on oil and gas as they claim

696
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: to represent Western alienation from a distant liberal Ottawa, some

697
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: of its participants seemed more interested in protesting Ottawa's immigration

698
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: policies than arguing for specific fixes for Alberta's oil patch. Plus,

699
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,439
Speaker 1: if you peeked inside any Canadian yellow vest Facebook group,

700
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: you would be flooded with hundreds of examples of explicit

701
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: anti Muslim racism and calls for a Prime Minister Justin

702
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: Trudeau's arrest and execution, a theme that remains common among

703
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: COVID conspiracy demonstrations today. But at the end of it,

704
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 1: United We Roll was widely considered a bust, with only

705
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 1: a few hundred participants in Ottawa and despite raising almost

706
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty thousand dollars, the organizers failed to

707
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: exclose how much of that money was actually spent on

708
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: convoy expenses like gas and food. Afterwards, the Yellowest Canada

709
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: movement started to kind and die out, though some holdouts

710
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: kept smaller demonstrations going for months, particularly in the conservative

711
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: oil province of Alberta. But to us now United we

712
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: Rule can be seen as a small test run for

713
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: the current situation. In fact, it shares many of the

714
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: same organizers and even the same promotional materials, except this

715
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 1: time they have the added weight of many more people

716
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 1: radicalized into conspiracism throughout the pandemic, and much more funding.

717
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: So with that in mind, let's dive into the components

718
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: of the initial organizing effort. On January two, go fund

719
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: me account was set up for a so called trucker

720
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: convoy ahead of the January fifteenth adoption of the mandate

721
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: requiring all cross border transportation drivers to be fully vaccinated

722
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: against COVID nineteen. Vaccine mandates in Canada have been in

723
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: effect since October for ship crews, railways, and airline workers,

724
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: but effective January, the federal government expanded the requirement to

725
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: truck drivers returning from the States and those who will

726
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: remain unvaccinated will not be able to enter Canada without quarantine.

727
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: One week later, a reciprocal policy went into effect in

728
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: the United States for Canadian truckers crossing into their border,

729
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: which means going forward you cannot really cross the border

730
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: at all, well remaining unvaccinated. At this point in mid January,

731
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: a majority of Canadians still broadly supported health mandates aimed

732
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: at limiting the spread of COVID, but a big part

733
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 1: of the early propaganda push for the convoy was photos

734
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: alleged to have been from current Canadian grocery stores which

735
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: they were not, with barren empty shelves. The idea was

736
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 1: that COVID restrictions were already severely impacting the supply line,

737
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: and any additional mandates would begin to start with the

738
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 1: population and effectively shut down international trade. Put a note

739
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: in this idea, by the way, it will come up later.

740
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: Ideas for another truck convoy like United Wi Roll have

741
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: been tossed around for a while online, and with this

742
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: new mandate on truckers andvaccines, a time presented itself to

743
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: give the convoy idea another go. In the early convoy

744
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: organizing they were primarily four familiar far right faces who

745
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: working together to set things up, none of whom are

746
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: truck drivers. By the way, the originally listed organizers on

747
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,760
Speaker 1: the go fund me page were Tomorrow Lich and b. J. Ditcher,

748
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: Both have notable experience with far right organizing. Tamaraw Litch

749
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: was born in my home province of Saskatchewan, but now

750
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: hails from the town of Medicine Hat, Alberta, where she

751
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 1: served as an organizer for Yellow Vests Canada, a regional

752
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: coordinator for the separatist Western Exit or Wexit movement in Alberta,

753
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: and now the secretary for the Maverick Party, another far

754
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 1: right extreme acceparatist movement and fringe political party. Litch started

755
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: attending and boosting yellow Vest events starting in and her

756
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,879
Speaker 1: social media posts from around the time show in one

757
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: moment calling out some hateful rhetoric from within the movement,

758
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: while also posting islamophobe articles of her own and conspiracies

759
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: about the Muslim Brotherhood operating in Canada. A few days

760
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: after the go fund me was created, Benjamin B. J. Ditcher,

761
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: one time Conservative Party of Canada candidate, People's Party of

762
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: Canada booster and co founder of a Canadian far right

763
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 1: podcast network, appeared as a cool organizer on the go

764
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: fund me page twenty nineteen, he claimed that Islamist entryism

765
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: is rotting away our society like syphilis. Benjamin Ditcher was

766
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: also one of the first people to give a speech

767
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: at the first proto Fascist People's Party of Canada conference

768
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: in Quebec, saying that the Conservative Party of Canada is

769
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: suffering from the stench of cultural relativism and political Islam

770
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: and a whole bunch of stuff you know in that

771
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: general vein. James Botter was another one of the four

772
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 1: key organizers of the Trucker convoy to Ottawa. Botter is

773
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: an admitted conspiracy theorist who has endorsed Q and on

774
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: and called COVID the biggest political scam in history. He's

775
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: also a former activist with the Yellow Vests Canada and

776
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 1: United we Roll. Barter's main project, however, is running the

777
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: Canada Unity website, which is one of the original nexus

778
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: points for organizing and spreading word about this convoy. The

779
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,959
Speaker 1: group contends that vaccine mandates and passports are illegal under

780
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 1: Canada's constitution, the Nuremberg Code, and a host of other

781
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: international conventions. Boter has long been a fringe figure, but

782
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 1: his movements started picking up steam and support as announcements

783
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,400
Speaker 1: and continuations of restrictions aimed at curbing COVID nineteen spread

784
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: have continued. The supposed plight of the truckers proved to

785
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: be a sympathetic cause on Facebook and attracted an array

786
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: of fellow travelers. The last big major player is Patrick King,

787
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: another former Yellow vestor one time major figure in the

788
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: Wexit movement as well as United we Roll. On January two,

789
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: pet King hosted a live stream for James Botter to

790
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: promote the Canada Unity website and to announce it as

791
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: the official page for the Freedom Trucker Convoy, or as

792
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: they called it, Operation Bear. Hug King is a conspiracy

793
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 1: theorist and popular streamer that attracts the audience farther right

794
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 1: than Canada's usual conservatives. Kings made headlines for drumming up

795
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: fear and then following through with his supporters with violence

796
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: at rally's put on by BLM and Antifa. King is

797
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 1: also known for spreading what are basically neo Nazi talking points.

798
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: And I'm just going to quote from an article by

799
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: the Canadian Anti Hate Network here because they did a

800
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: great job tracking his past extremism quote. In the past,

801
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 1: King has gone on record about his feelings on the

802
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: Anglo Saxon replacement that plans to quote flood Canada with

803
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:49,399
Speaker 1: refugees and subvert the education system, which is a thin

804
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: rebranding of the Great Replacement theory touted by Ethno nationalists.

805
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: At other points, King is expressed overtly racist and anti

806
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,399
Speaker 1: Semitic statements. In the twenty nineteen stream about the then

807
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: upcoming federal election, King complained that he had to leave

808
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: the movement due to their lack of success, saying, quote

809
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,839
Speaker 1: the election a wo't matter unless you want to change

810
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 1: your national language to Chinese or Mandarin or Hebrew. He

811
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: then went on to compare Chinese names to the sound

812
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: of change falling downstairs. He has publicly distorted facts, but

813
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: the Holocaust of form of Holocaust denial, saying I do

814
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: know that the Holocaust was reduced to one point five

815
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: million and not the six million that it was said

816
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: to be. He then invoked the anti Semitic conspiracy theory

817
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,240
Speaker 1: that Jewish people are secretly in control of world governance, media,

818
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: and finances, saying, quote the questions that have been asked

819
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: several times to the a d L and to the

820
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 1: Jewish government and communities. We have Jewish world bankers who

821
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: are dictating our government policies and controlling our politicians unquote.

822
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: So yeah. Considering King's history of saying blatantly fascist things,

823
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: some organizers and convoy supporters tried to distance King from

824
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: the Freedom Convoy movement to not damage the initial fundraising effort.

825
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,720
Speaker 1: The controversy around King resulted in a statement being released

826
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: onto the fundraising page saying King is not and has

827
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: never been affiliate with our movement, nor has he been

828
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 1: a part of our great team of volunteers. The update

829
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: was afterwards deleted, and then King claimed in a video

830
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 1: that the statement was a public relations move because he

831
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 1: was being attacked online. For a while, King was still

832
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: listed as the Northern Alberta contact for the Western portion

833
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: of the convoy. So those are the four people that

834
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: laid the organizing groundwork, that spawned this entire thing and

835
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: put it into motion. But what made this convoy different

836
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: from United We Roll One point, oh, is the almost

837
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 1: two years of COVID isolation, which has given ample time

838
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: for groups like the Yellow Vests and extreme Far right

839
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: groups to completely fold into the rapidly growing anti vax

840
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: and COVID conspiracy movement in Canada, and along with that,

841
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: using people's seething hatred of Justin Trudeau to radicalize thousands

842
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: of thousands of people online to getting them more comfortable

843
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: with the idea of participating in political protest. It's really

844
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: important to mention that the protests are not organized by

845
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: Canadian trucking unions or really Canadian truckers. The largest trucking

846
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 1: unions have come out against the protests and they do

847
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: not appear to reflect the values of most Canadians or

848
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 1: most Canadian truckers. More than of the Canadian public is vaccinated,

849
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: including almost of truckers, according to Canada's Minister of Transport.

850
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: The Canadian Trucking Alliance issued a statement saying it does

851
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,959
Speaker 1: not support and strongly disapproves of any protests on public roads,

852
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 1: highways or bridges. The Canadian Trucking Alliance president said in

853
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: a joint statement with the Ministers of Labor and Transport

854
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 1: that the Government of Canada and the Canadian Trucking Alliance

855
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 1: both agree that vaccination, used in combination with preventative health measures,

856
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: is the most effective tool to reduce the risk of

857
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen for Canadians and to protect public health. According

858
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 1: to the Canadian Trucking Alliance, the mandate could impact around

859
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: twelve to sixteen thousand Canadian commercial drivers, which is just

860
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: about ten to fifteen percent of the industry's cross border

861
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 1: drivers during the pandemic. Repeated polls have shown that a

862
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: majority of Canadians support public health measures to contain the pandemic,

863
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: but the number of Canadians who would like to see

864
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: restrictions end has risen in recent weeks. With owner crown

865
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: cases on the decline, some provinces are starting to remove

866
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: restrictions and requirements. The public sentiment appears to be moving

867
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: in the direction of opening up communities. Throughout the last

868
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: two weeks of January, the number of Canadians saying that

869
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: they would like to see restrictions end has risen by

870
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 1: fifteen percentage points to a majority of fifty percent. Demonstrations

871
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: have found a way to tap into pandemic fatigue among

872
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: conservatives across the country. After months of lockdown, more than

873
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 1: two thirds of Canadians have said they have very little

874
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: in common with how the Autaowa protesters see things, but

875
00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: say that they have a lot in common, according to

876
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 1: a recent survey connected by a Canadian research firm. Though

877
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: the idea of vaccine mandates for Canadian truckers kind of

878
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: prompted what turned into this convoy, very quickly became a

879
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: general battle cry against pandemic restrictions as a whole and

880
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: the leadership of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. Unlike twenty nineteen

881
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: United we Roll, the Freedom Convoy against health mandates was

882
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: able to successfully capitalize on Western feelings of neglect and

883
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 1: isolation from the ruling liberal elite in the East and

884
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 1: in the capital of Ottawa. The right ingredients at the

885
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: right time flung the Trucker Freedom Convoy into the conservative zeitgeist.

886
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: The original and go fund me page, set up on

887
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: January fourteenth to financially support convoy participants, was able to

888
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: raise ten million dollars in just under three weeks. As

889
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: the truck convoy idea picked up steam, The first expected

890
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: wave of attendees were planned to arrive in Ottawa on Saturday,

891
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,800
Speaker 1: January twenty ninth. Vehicles started rolling in a few days prior,

892
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: throughout Thursday and the Friday night before the big day.

893
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: On the twenty nine, and as Saturday the twenty nine came,

894
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: the numbers of trucks and protest participants greatly exceeded the

895
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: initial expected numbers that I and many other people had figured,

896
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 1: while obviously falling short of the heavily marked fifty thousand

897
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: truckers prediction made by some convoy supporters. While writing these episodes,

898
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 1: I talked with Paul, a citizen of Ovadawa who's been

899
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 1: living inside the occupied zone since the twenty ninth of January,

900
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 1: and this is what he had to say about expectations

901
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: leading up to the convoys arrival. There was at least

902
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 1: a week of lead up where we it was about

903
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 1: all we heard about. So from when they sort of

904
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: declared their intention to come down to when they started

905
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: rallying in BC and you know, in the west and

906
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 1: coming across Um, there was an anticipation that something was

907
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 1: going to happen. And you know, people around here because

908
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: like where I'm sitting right now is less than a

909
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 1: kilometer from Parliament Hill and directly in between two of

910
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 1: the streets that they've blocked off sort of on the

911
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: way into town. You know, we were nervous, but we

912
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: kind of were just sort of assuming it was gonna

913
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:06,919
Speaker 1: be a one day affair. It was gonna be small

914
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 1: at first, but then you heard I mean, nobody believed

915
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 1: the fifty trucks and that like that was it. I mean,

916
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 1: to put in perspective, the numbers that they were claiming

917
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 1: were on their way here, UM are larger than the

918
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 1: entire population of the city by like a couple hundred

919
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: thousand people, so that that didn't seem likely. But you know,

920
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 1: when we were hearing the thirty to forty thousand, when

921
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,760
Speaker 1: we heard about multiple convoys with you know, a hundred

922
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: to two hundred trucks like that was when it was like, Okay,

923
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:43,959
Speaker 1: this isn't gonna be great. So people started arriving on

924
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 1: what Friday, Saturday. The first group started rolling to town

925
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: on Thursday night. UM. They were they were small in numbers.

926
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 1: They didn't really start blocking anything off because they just

927
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 1: weren't enough of them. So, but you could hear the

928
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 1: horns starting on Thursday night, UM, and I think a

929
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: lot of some of them were going into hotels. UM.

930
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 1: They were smaller groups too, mostly from sort of local groups. UM.

931
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: And then around ten or eleven in the morning on Friday, UM,

932
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: we started hearing reports at Kingston, which is about an

933
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 1: hour issue away, an hour and a half um that

934
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,760
Speaker 1: there was a group moving out of there. So around

935
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,280
Speaker 1: one o'clock in the afternoon Friday, the first group started

936
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: to arrive and started to congregate downtown. And one of

937
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 1: the things about Ottawa is um it's a lot, like

938
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: a lot of big downtowns, it's a lot of one

939
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 1: way streets. So the moment you get the trucks starting

940
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,240
Speaker 1: to get into the intersections or near intersections, you're blocking

941
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 1: off all passage in certain directions. So they started blocking

942
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: off the northbound really quickly, just because that's where how

943
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,919
Speaker 1: they were coming in UM. And there's only like three

944
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 1: gas stations downtown as well, which is it kind of

945
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,399
Speaker 1: plays a big factor in the route that they took.

946
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: So they all passed by, especially the passenger cars that

947
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: were running mow Um passed by and through that way.

948
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:58,760
Speaker 1: And yeah, by about two or three o'clock in the afternoon,

949
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 1: every anything south of Summerset, which is about a kilometer

950
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: and a half from Parliament, was pretty much jammed at

951
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 1: that point. As Saturday night came, much of the group,

952
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 1: supporters and truckers alike spent that time partying late into

953
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 1: the night as heavily backed up traffic continued to effectively

954
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 1: shut down roads and large areas of the city around

955
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: Parliament Throughout the weekend. Businesses in the surrounding areas that

956
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: did not close ahead of the protest were swarmed by customers,

957
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,840
Speaker 1: many refusing to wear masks. A local Homa shelter and

958
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: soup kitchen was harassed by Convoy participants who were turned

959
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 1: away from restaurants after refusing to wear a mask. A

960
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,240
Speaker 1: large number of the convoy attendees surrounded the shelter, demanding

961
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 1: to be fed by the facility staff. According to the

962
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 1: shelters president, convoy participants assaulted a client of the shelter

963
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: and her old racial slurs at a security guard who

964
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 1: attempted to intervene. Workers and volunteers at the shelter noted

965
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: that parked vehicles blocked the shelter, making it difficult for

966
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 1: aliences to reach the facility and for staff to assist

967
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: munity members in need. A home in the downtown area

968
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 1: was pelted with rocks and snow, as well as vandalized

969
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 1: with human feces, all for showing a Pride flag in

970
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,800
Speaker 1: their window. The operations commander for the Ottawa Paramedic Service

971
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: said that an ambulance was pelted with rocks and paramedics

972
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 1: checking the damage were called racial slurs by convoy participants.

973
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: Ottawa Paramedics have since requested police escorts, citing safety concerns.

974
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:26,839
Speaker 1: More public backlash was prompted after reports surface of a

975
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: monument dedicated to commemorating Terry Fox being covered in protest

976
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: signs and being staged to hold an upside down Canadian flag.

977
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 1: No restroom made Saturday night related to the convoy, but

978
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: as the convoy stuck around even past the weekend, there

979
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:43,799
Speaker 1: was this growing feeling of downtown residents that they've been

980
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: abandoned by the city and law enforcement, with the whole

981
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,800
Speaker 1: situation and response to the situation making them afraid to

982
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 1: leave their homes. I asked Paul what his experience on

983
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 1: the first weekend of the occupation was and the general

984
00:53:56,719 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 1: feeling in the area of downtown Ottawa. And you were

985
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: living like right in the middle of this. How much

986
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: has this affected like your day to day life and all,

987
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 1: like your neighbors and stuff, like what what what are

988
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:10,240
Speaker 1: you able to do and not do? At this point? Well,

989
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: it's the weekend was it was especially bad, and we're

990
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 1: all kind of bracing for what this weekend is going

991
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 1: to be because that's when you had just you know,

992
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 1: there were between somewhere between ten and fifteen eighteen thousand

993
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: people as the estimates I've heard, um all crowding downtown

994
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: in the streets. So at that point, I mean that

995
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 1: was when the police we're telling people not to wear

996
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 1: a mask out, um because you know, you're kind of

997
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: putting yourself at risk, uh, because it'll be targeted for violence. Yeah.

998
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 1: So I mean I was like basically anytime I've left

999
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 1: the house. So we have a mask mandate still in

1000
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 1: effect in Ottawa, so you have to wear them indoors

1001
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 1: pretty much everywhere. Um. So I have to wear at

1002
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 1: my building, I have to wear at the convenience store.

1003
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 1: If I'm gonna go go buy say, you know, pack

1004
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 1: of cigarettes, I'm not going to take it off. It's

1005
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 1: a thirty second walk. And so that was that. The

1006
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 1: harassment around that started on Friday, UM, and and it

1007
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: just became anyone who was going about that didn't look

1008
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:08,840
Speaker 1: like they were part of it, UM started getting hassled. UM.

1009
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:11,320
Speaker 1: Other people I know who live in the area, especially women,

1010
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 1: UM have been targeted a great deal. Um, anyone who's

1011
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: part of, you know, the LGBTQ community has been it's

1012
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: it's not really just it's just not safe to be

1013
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 1: out on the streets and it's not really safe to

1014
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 1: show that you don't support what they're doing. At points

1015
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,760
Speaker 1: since the convoy started arriving in Ottawa, the extreme elements

1016
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 1: of the protest have been pretty visible. Among the thousands

1017
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,760
Speaker 1: of attendees were recognizable members of white nationalists, hate groups

1018
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 1: you know, not seeing Confederate flags were seen flying. Two

1019
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,320
Speaker 1: and on logos were emblazoned on trucks and sides, and

1020
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 1: stickers were pasted on telephone pools around the occupied area

1021
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 1: baring Trudeau's face reading wanted for crimes against humanity, the

1022
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 1: official line from original convoy organizers minus Pat King, of course, however,

1023
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: has tried to remain focused. In a Facebook live broadcast,

1024
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: James Under of Canada Unity instructed his supporters to stop

1025
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 1: talking about the vaccine and instead stick the messages of freedom.

1026
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: The goal of adopting a more restricted and relatable protest

1027
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 1: cause is to hopefully jump up more widespread support and validity,

1028
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: and it initially worked in some ways and not in others.

1029
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 1: Numerous members of the Conservative Party have come out to

1030
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: meet protesters, especially throughout the first few days now. Former

1031
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,800
Speaker 1: Conservative Party leader Eron O'Toole met with convoy participants, albeit

1032
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:31,319
Speaker 1: away from the main protest site. Both People's Party of

1033
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 1: Canada leader Maxie and Bernair and Ontario Member of Provincial

1034
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: Parliament and leader of the de facto Ontario arm of

1035
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 1: the PPC, Randy Healer, who has made many recent and

1036
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,399
Speaker 1: semitic comments, both gave speeches on Saturday the twenty nine

1037
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: in front of the Parliament building. People like Elon Musk

1038
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 1: and Donald Trump have both endorsed the convoy, and Fox

1039
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 1: News has been endlessly broadcasting glowing updates of the convoy

1040
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 1: since its arrival in Ottawa. According to the convoy participants

1041
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 1: and organizers, they are vowing to camp out in front

1042
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 1: of the Parliament until their demands of dropping all COVID

1043
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 1: nineteen health measures are met. While stated grievances can be

1044
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 1: broader and more vast on the ground, the current memorandum

1045
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: of understanding posted on the Canada Unity website, which collected

1046
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: over thirty signatures, served as a sort of bargaining pitch

1047
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 1: between the convoy and the Canadian government. The Memorandum of Understanding,

1048
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 1: or the m o U, calls on Canada's appointing senators

1049
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: and Canada's Governor General, the representative of Queen Elizabeth, the

1050
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 1: second in Canada's constitutional monarchy, to abolish all COVID nineteen

1051
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: related restrictions and to allow all unvaccinated workers whose employment

1052
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 1: was terminated because of vaccine mandates to get their jobs back.

1053
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 1: James Potter, the guy who runs Canada Unity, insisted to

1054
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 1: his followers that the m o U would force the

1055
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 1: government's hand and possibly even trigger fresh elections if enough

1056
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 1: people signed. Another Canada Unity organizer went further, saying it

1057
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 1: would require the Senate to after the Prime Minister for

1058
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: corruption and fascism, which, of course there's no legal basis

1059
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: for any of these claims around the m o you,

1060
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 1: but you know that doesn't really matter in the end,

1061
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 1: because people still believe it, so it's going to have

1062
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 1: an impact on what they do. The more controversial Pat

1063
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: King laid out an alternative, however, a more direct plan

1064
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 1: of action to the occupiers. In a January Facebook livestream,

1065
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 1: King said that what we want to focus on is

1066
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:30,479
Speaker 1: our politicians, their houses, their locations. If political pressure doesn't work,

1067
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 1: blocking major supply chains will be later on. So more

1068
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: more on that idea later. After the first weekend of

1069
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: protests kind of turned occupations, go fund me released a

1070
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 1: reported one million dollars of the total ten million raised

1071
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 1: for the convoy. As the end of the weekend approached,

1072
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 1: many convoy participants who rolled into the nation's capital began

1073
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 1: heading home and the highways on Sunday night saw no

1074
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: shortage of vehicles heading away from Ottawa with their approtest

1075
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: signs and flags still in tow, but plenty of people

1076
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 1: stuck around to continue the fight. Thousands and thousands of

1077
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 1: people and hundreds of vehicles, including a fleet of semitrucks,

1078
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 1: commercial vehicles, r V campers, and regular cars were more

1079
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:14,439
Speaker 1: than enough to keep the roads in a large portion

1080
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:18,439
Speaker 1: of Ottawa around Parliament effectively shut down. I can't help

1081
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 1: but draw comparisons to the fear mongering narrative of bus

1082
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 1: fulls of Antifa, you know, protesters coming from out of

1083
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 1: town into places they don't live, terrorizing locals, shutting down cities.

1084
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 1: You know. The other comparison is to like the chop

1085
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: where the chas in Seattle was taking over a large

1086
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 1: portion of the city, and how that was so vilified. Except,

1087
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 1: you know, this is so much bigger and impactful than

1088
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 1: anything so called Antifa or the Black Lives Matter protests

1089
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 1: have ever done, especially in Canada, in terms of actually

1090
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 1: impacting the functionality of a city and restricting the local, national,

1091
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 1: and international capitalist trade. The Freedom Convoy has done everything

1092
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 1: and more its proponents warned that Antifa was going to

1093
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 1: do to Canada. Obviously, part of the reason the Convoy

1094
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 1: protest was able to get to this point is not

1095
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 1: just because of its large size, but also the initial

1096
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 1: hands off approach by police that allowed the Convoy participants

1097
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 1: the opportunity to get a strong foothold within the city.

1098
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: The difference in initial law enforcement reaction to the protest

1099
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 1: Convoy made up of largely you know, conservative, middle class

1100
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 1: white Canadians, compared to other protests like you know, the

1101
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 1: Black Lives Better protests, or say the RCMPS typical response

1102
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 1: to First Nations protests and blockings defending their land. The

1103
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 1: comparisons cannot be over analyzed. You know, the latter two

1104
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: forms of protest I mentioned actually do challenge societal power

1105
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 1: structures that prop up White Canada, while as this Convoy

1106
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: protest does not and instead plays into those very power structures.

1107
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 1: That dynamic played a major role into how the police

1108
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: handled or didn't handle the first few days of the protest,

1109
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 1: in which during those early days the convoy attendees were

1110
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 1: free to build infrastructure that resulted in the protest escalating

1111
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:09,120
Speaker 1: into a full scale occupation. The Monday after the first

1112
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:12,439
Speaker 1: initial weekend, the city's mayor, Jim Watson, declared a state

1113
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: of emergency, but at that point Attawa Police thought it

1114
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 1: was already too late for the protest to be ended

1115
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 1: by sheer force without vastly increasing the likelihood of severe

1116
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 1: damage and life threatening outcomes to the convoy participants, police officers,

1117
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 1: and regular citizens of Ottawa. On February twod Ottawa Police

1118
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 1: Chief Peter Slowly explicitly said that there may not be

1119
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: a police solution to ending the convoy and occupation. There

1120
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 1: are similar demonstrations taking place in many other parts of

1121
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 1: this country, indeed many other parts around this continent in

1122
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 1: the world. What happens here effects there, What happens there

1123
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 1: affects here. We have seen in the last twenty four

1124
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 1: hours attempts by other police and other jurisdictions to do

1125
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 1: just what you have suggested. They were not effective and

1126
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 1: they created additional safety issues, potential life threatening safety issues.

1127
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 1: I have great compassion for those that have been significantly affected,

1128
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: if not traumatized, and we know criminally victimized. We will

1129
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 1: do everything we can to hold those who have done

1130
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 1: that to account. Will continue arresting and charging people as

1131
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 1: we have been. But any action taken without understanding the

1132
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 1: totality of the context, the totality of the risk, would

1133
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:38,960
Speaker 1: be irresponsible. You're trying to be responsible, lawful, ethical, and measured.

1134
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:43,439
Speaker 1: My last comment when I wrapped up, I'll share again now.

1135
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 1: The longer this goes on, the more I am convinced

1136
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 1: there may not be a police solution to this demonstration.

1137
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 1: There are police chiefs commissioners across this country that are

1138
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: dealing with demonstrations that are starting underway and significantly advanced.

1139
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 1: This is a national issue, not an Autawa issue from

1140
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 1: the start. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has been playing down

1141
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 1: the notion of a military response to the ongoing Ottawa protest.

1142
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 1: During the first week, he said that sending in troops

1143
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 1: is not in the cards. Right now. On the February two,

1144
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 1: the Automa police chiefs said that all options are on

1145
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 1: the table, including eventually calling in the military, but one

1146
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:28,280
Speaker 1: must be very very cautious about deploying troops in Canadian

1147
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 1: soil in such cases. Trudeau said that a news conference

1148
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 1: in in the February that it's not something that anyone

1149
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 1: should enter into lightly, with police basically leaving the Ottawa

1150
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 1: residents who live near and within the Convoy occupation to

1151
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 1: fend for themselves. I was curious what sorts of things

1152
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:48,200
Speaker 1: the local community might be doing to live around this massive,

1153
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 1: conspiracy filled group of reactionary out of town campers. What

1154
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 1: sort of things have the has the community been doing

1155
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 1: to kind of help survive this this Like has there

1156
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 1: been like talide projects in the neighborhood to help support

1157
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 1: other neighbors, you know that that sort of thing there

1158
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 1: have Um it's actually been kind of wonderful the way

1159
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,440
Speaker 1: the community has been coming together, especially after two years

1160
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 1: of pandemic, where we've all been kind of like Ottawa

1161
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 1: and Ontario have been one of the more restricted jurisdictions

1162
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 1: in North America. UM. I mean, and I say this

1163
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:21,080
Speaker 1: as a restaurant manager, like in my opinion rightly, so,

1164
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:23,080
Speaker 1: like it's about keeping people safe, and we've done a

1165
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 1: fairly good job of that by and large. But the

1166
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: thing is that, you know, our community hasn't felt a

1167
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 1: lot like a community in a while, and this week,

1168
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:35,240
Speaker 1: I mean one of the few positives has been UM

1169
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 1: both individuals and organizations. So I mean, Rose and some

1170
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 1: of the other organizations that we mentioned on Friday have

1171
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 1: done a great job. There's also been some really really

1172
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:46,080
Speaker 1: great organic organizing coming out of UM some activists as

1173
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:48,040
Speaker 1: well as just people in the community. So there's a

1174
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 1: a few discord servers set up right now. So there's

1175
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 1: been a huge issue with people, people with disabilities and

1176
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 1: the elderly getting groceries because deliveries aren't possible downtown UM.

1177
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:01,200
Speaker 1: So it started on Twitter, UM, but there's been an

1178
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 1: organization set up to help people get those groceries. Whether

1179
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 1: it's a cost issue or just a physical delivery issue.

1180
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:10,479
Speaker 1: We're ensured people are ensuring that that's happening UM as

1181
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: of today. UM there's gonna be a safe Walks program. UM.

1182
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 1: There's well there's two. There's one on discord where it's

1183
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 1: people offering to you know, make sure that you can

1184
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 1: get through the space safe. Today though, um, in a

1185
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 1: positive and more passive sense, we kind of started taking

1186
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 1: the streets back. So um, we had about four or

1187
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 1: five groups of people ranging from ten to fifty just

1188
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 1: just walking the streets and not not confronting anybody, not

1189
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 1: getting getting into any direct engagement, just going out to

1190
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 1: show that we can still walk on our streets and

1191
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 1: letting our you know, our our neighbors know that we

1192
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:46,560
Speaker 1: can actually be together and you know, stand up just

1193
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 1: to be together, which is something that I think a

1194
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 1: lot of people have lost over the last week. I mean,

1195
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:54,320
Speaker 1: like the fact that that's even a big step is

1196
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 1: showing how tired the situation is. The fact that just

1197
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 1: get to that point were walking around in a group

1198
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 1: where you feel safe is like a big thing that Yeah,

1199
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 1: that's like a really interesting and horrible indicator of what

1200
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 1: the mood has been like there for people like living

1201
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 1: in this area. That is. Yeah, that is a big

1202
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 1: part of it. And it's something that was actually talked

1203
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:20,000
Speaker 1: about a lot today, which was how refreshing it was

1204
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 1: to be able to do it, but also that it

1205
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 1: shouldn't feel radical to take a safe walk in your community,

1206
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 1: but it somehow did um and it speaks a lot

1207
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:32,959
Speaker 1: to the feelings the lack of safety or the loss

1208
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 1: of you know, safety in this community and has been

1209
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 1: pretty immense. I should mention that another community led efforts

1210
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 1: to deal with the occupation is the ram Ranch Resistance,

1211
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 1: a loosely organized counter movement to the Chuck Our Convoy

1212
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:50,960
Speaker 1: that started with people joining the convoys online communications channels

1213
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 1: and blasting the homo erotic country song ram Ranch. The

1214
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 1: song is by a Canadian artist and features some flawless

1215
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 1: lyrics like eighteen naked cowboys wanting to be fucked, cowboys

1216
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 1: in the showers at ram Ranch on their knees wanting

1217
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:11,400
Speaker 1: to suck cowboy cox. Ram Ranch really rocks. The result

1218
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:16,120
Speaker 1: is not only making the Convoy folks uncomfortable because gay,

1219
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 1: but also it is hijacking and making their online communications

1220
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 1: channels kind of useless for any non cowboy cock sucking

1221
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 1: political organizing efforts. Disruptive resistance to the Convoys online communications

1222
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,320
Speaker 1: is not just limited to the ram Ranch song, however,

1223
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 1: other vulgar songs have also been introduced into the chats

1224
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:37,440
Speaker 1: as well. I'm gonna just kind of give you a

1225
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 1: brief look at what it's like inside these chats, right, Yeah,

1226
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:44,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna role play it. The

1227
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:46,960
Speaker 1: ram Ranch guys are finally gone. It's about freaking time.

1228
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 1: I've had to shut that stuff off. One person has

1229
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 1: heard saying and a clip from a chat, immediately followed

1230
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 1: by a robotic voice saying, welcome to the come zone.

1231
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:59,200
Speaker 1: Only come inside anime girls, quivering clip, double jointed pussy

1232
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 1: fresh balls. Since then, the movement has taken on as

1233
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:04,400
Speaker 1: something of a life of its own. The ram Ranch

1234
01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 1: Resistance hashtag has been used as a way for people

1235
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 1: to share information regarding the convoy, and Welcome to the

1236
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:13,920
Speaker 1: ram Ranch signs have been popping up at convoy counter

1237
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 1: protests around the country. Another ram rancher created the website

1238
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 1: ram Ranch dot c a linking to downtown organizations that

1239
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:24,160
Speaker 1: have been impacted by the trucker convoy, as well as

1240
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:28,960
Speaker 1: charities aiding indigenous people's As the convoy settled in, it

1241
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:31,600
Speaker 1: appeared at the demonstrators and the government had reached a

1242
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 1: sort of stalemate. Currently, there are more than four hundred

1243
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 1: trucks parked downtown and Ottawa Police say that they can't

1244
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:41,880
Speaker 1: move them because the too operators with city contracts are

1245
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:45,639
Speaker 1: refusing to help, making matters only more difficult. Police say

1246
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 1: that families with children are sleeping in approximately a quarter

1247
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,720
Speaker 1: of those trucks. To get an idea of what some

1248
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 1: Attawa residents who live within the occupied zone see in

1249
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 1: terms of a potential end in sight, I posed Paul

1250
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:02,799
Speaker 1: this question, how do you even see the situation resolving

1251
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 1: at this point? Like, do do you think they're like

1252
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 1: the truckers and the people who are in the city

1253
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:10,080
Speaker 1: are gonna are gonna back down and leave eventually or

1254
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 1: like or do you think they have to be forced out?

1255
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:14,479
Speaker 1: Like what do you see kind of an end to

1256
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 1: this at this point? Well, it's at this point. Probably

1257
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 1: one of the hardest things to admit is that I don't. Um,

1258
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:24,519
Speaker 1: the hardest core that are here are committed, and they

1259
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:27,880
Speaker 1: have a significant amount of funding behind them. And the

1260
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:32,600
Speaker 1: thing is that you know, with an occupation protests, they

1261
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:34,800
Speaker 1: if you don't nip it in the bud, it's snowballs

1262
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:37,760
Speaker 1: and gathers momentum for a while. Um, And I mean

1263
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:40,280
Speaker 1: eventually they either peter out or they have to be removed.

1264
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 1: And this one is still snowballing. Um, We've seen some

1265
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 1: more extreme elements come into the city this week. Um

1266
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:53,799
Speaker 1: yesterday Romana did Dulo, the human on Queen of Canada

1267
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:57,240
Speaker 1: arrived in birthday Brent the Canadian flag on Parliament Hill,

1268
01:09:57,280 --> 01:09:59,479
Speaker 1: which whatever you think about the Canadian flag, and it's

1269
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:02,960
Speaker 1: simple us a similar propression. Um you know, that's not

1270
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:05,519
Speaker 1: a great look for them. But the other side of

1271
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 1: it is is that this is a woman with seventy

1272
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:10,520
Speaker 1: followers who you know, has called for the mass execution

1273
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:14,640
Speaker 1: of her enemies, and you know, is currently parked in

1274
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:17,360
Speaker 1: or Winnebago two and a half blocks from my house

1275
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 1: right now, um so, and with a bunch of her

1276
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 1: followers down with her. And so they're committed. They know.

1277
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:30,760
Speaker 1: They don't know that I did occupy a lot of

1278
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:33,840
Speaker 1: years ago, and the question that people asked us, and

1279
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:36,599
Speaker 1: sometimes it was the police, was what gets you out

1280
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:39,519
Speaker 1: of the park. And in a weird way, there's a

1281
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:42,639
Speaker 1: parallel here, which is that the hardest answer with occupy

1282
01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:45,400
Speaker 1: was always kind of like everything is kind of fucked,

1283
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:48,640
Speaker 1: So how do we fix everything? That's the discussion we

1284
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:51,559
Speaker 1: should be having. So in this case, to these people,

1285
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:56,559
Speaker 1: in their worldview, everything is kind of fucked, and there's

1286
01:10:56,600 --> 01:10:58,439
Speaker 1: no answer that you can give those kind of people

1287
01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:02,559
Speaker 1: in negotiations. The police right now are not looking at

1288
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:04,960
Speaker 1: removal as a serious option, I don't think, or if

1289
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:07,720
Speaker 1: they are, they haven't figured out how to get to

1290
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:10,280
Speaker 1: that place yet. And one of the weird things about

1291
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:15,080
Speaker 1: Ottawa is is that technically in various spaces because the

1292
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 1: way it's designated, there's a whole mishmash of jurisdictions between

1293
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 1: the various police agencies. So like again with occupy that

1294
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:25,280
Speaker 1: we picked the park, like the park that was occupied

1295
01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:29,120
Speaker 1: was partially picked because it was on like this weird

1296
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 1: jurisdictional black hole where it was hard to figure out

1297
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 1: who the cops were at, who should police it were,

1298
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 1: um so, And they've ended up in the same park

1299
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:42,080
Speaker 1: where they now have like fifty five cylinders appropane sitting

1300
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:45,760
Speaker 1: about five yards from the Department of National Defense. So it's, uh,

1301
01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:49,120
Speaker 1: it's tricky to figure out how you how you get

1302
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:50,479
Speaker 1: get out of that because all it's going to take

1303
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:51,840
Speaker 1: is one of them with something in their cab and

1304
01:11:51,880 --> 01:11:56,160
Speaker 1: it's done. Yep, ye. Well, do you have any hope

1305
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:58,760
Speaker 1: for anything? Do you have any indicators for how it

1306
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:03,680
Speaker 1: can turn out? Well? I mean in terms of the occupation.

1307
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:06,720
Speaker 1: I mean, we'll see how it goes. Um maybe there

1308
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 1: can become some kind of modus vivendi between them and

1309
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:12,040
Speaker 1: the rest of the city. I don't know how that happens,

1310
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:14,760
Speaker 1: but maybe there can be, but I don't know. It's

1311
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:18,840
Speaker 1: the only silver lining I see right now is you know,

1312
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:21,600
Speaker 1: the walk that I was on earlier today and the

1313
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:23,160
Speaker 1: chat that I was having with other people in the

1314
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:27,880
Speaker 1: community and the discord server and everywhere else, like, this

1315
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:30,360
Speaker 1: is a really strong community that cares a great deal

1316
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 1: about itself and sometimes needed to be needs to be

1317
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:34,840
Speaker 1: reminded of that. And uh, I think this is an

1318
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:38,160
Speaker 1: opportunity for that to happen. Then I think that that's

1319
01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:39,720
Speaker 1: the positive that can come out, is that we will

1320
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:41,760
Speaker 1: take care of ourselves and we'll take care of each other.

1321
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:44,599
Speaker 1: And that's you know what, what more can you ask

1322
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 1: where I guess out of this. Reports of assaults perpetrated

1323
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:50,679
Speaker 1: by members of the Convoy protest have been steadily ruling

1324
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:53,599
Speaker 1: in the past few weeks, not to mention the seemingly

1325
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:56,720
Speaker 1: constant presence of honking in the downtown area that's been

1326
01:12:56,760 --> 01:13:00,280
Speaker 1: affecting residents every day and even into the night. I

1327
01:13:00,280 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 1: will offer you this short sample to help complete the

1328
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 1: picture of what it's like both indoors and outdoors in

1329
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 1: downtown Ottawa. So apologies about that. Yeah, that was pretty

1330
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:27,840
Speaker 1: bad and as annoying and frustrating as it may be.

1331
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 1: Before I close out part one, I'm going to play

1332
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 1: some audio from one of the truckers or you know,

1333
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 1: just convoy participants as he addresses fellow convoy ors on

1334
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:41,080
Speaker 1: why it's good and in fact revolutionary to hunk horns

1335
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:44,200
Speaker 1: late into the night. I think it gives you some

1336
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 1: valuable insight into how these people frame their actions in

1337
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:49,600
Speaker 1: their own heads. And you know, it will give you

1338
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:52,879
Speaker 1: an opportunity to hear some of these convoy people directly.

1339
01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:57,120
Speaker 1: So here we go. Yeah, let's go on. There's quiet

1340
01:13:57,120 --> 01:13:59,200
Speaker 1: when I got here, but now they're starting to bring

1341
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:02,679
Speaker 1: this tournament some noise. Now, I get it. I saw

1342
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:04,760
Speaker 1: some comments saying that you want to go from nine

1343
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:06,720
Speaker 1: to five and you want to turn your horns off,

1344
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 1: and you want to you know, be respectful and play

1345
01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:11,880
Speaker 1: the optics war. And you've done You've done all the map, man,

1346
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:15,320
Speaker 1: I get it. I we've done everything. Every piece of

1347
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:18,080
Speaker 1: garbage has been picked up. Statistically, there is no crime.

1348
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:20,479
Speaker 1: And when I mean statistically, if you have some drunk

1349
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:23,960
Speaker 1: guy acted, you know, silly on one street quickly gets

1350
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:26,519
Speaker 1: you know, talk to and then the Patriots taken back

1351
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:28,679
Speaker 1: to his car and maybe there was some incident of mission.

1352
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:31,360
Speaker 1: I've heard reports of anti for throwing rocks and trucks,

1353
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:33,680
Speaker 1: tag and stuff. They're the ones committing the crime. But

1354
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:35,600
Speaker 1: other than that, this has been the most well to

1355
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:39,160
Speaker 1: have revolution on earth. And now the big complaint is

1356
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:42,080
Speaker 1: can you get them to only blow their horns between

1357
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:46,080
Speaker 1: nine and five? I'm sorry, what has compliant got you

1358
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:48,960
Speaker 1: guys so far? What is just little by little? Oh?

1359
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:51,639
Speaker 1: Just do this? Yeah, just just don't peep your horns

1360
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:54,280
Speaker 1: between nine and five. That's all we're gonna ask. Then

1361
01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:57,840
Speaker 1: were two masks, then just go right back to square one.

1362
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:00,879
Speaker 1: How about you put your blame right where it belongs,

1363
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:04,600
Speaker 1: right in the eye of Sauron And that's who we

1364
01:15:04,680 --> 01:15:07,720
Speaker 1: handle this with and every mandate. We're not allowed to

1365
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:10,000
Speaker 1: exist in society. I'm not allowed to go to a movie,

1366
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to go to a restaurant. I'm not

1367
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 1: allowed to leave the country. You can't even leave you

1368
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:19,200
Speaker 1: can't travel on planes, you can't do anything that Trudeau

1369
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:23,080
Speaker 1: can get his fingers on to discriminate against us in society. Meanwhile,

1370
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:26,880
Speaker 1: he'll blame us for side effects of his guinea pigs.

1371
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:30,599
Speaker 1: It's an insane world, and you've complied long enough, guys,

1372
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:33,439
Speaker 1: and the madness in the horn stop. But I am

1373
01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 1: in no place to go tell these guys, oh excuse me?

1374
01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 1: Can you turn your horn off? Can you get used

1375
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:41,439
Speaker 1: to complying again? We want freedom. We're not asking for

1376
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 1: anything unreasonable, and we're doing it on your behalf. The

1377
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:46,280
Speaker 1: least you can do is turn off your televisions and

1378
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:50,000
Speaker 1: stop letting their horrible objections to this revolution, and they're

1379
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:53,200
Speaker 1: horrible false flags and whatever else they bring. I'm sorry

1380
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:56,439
Speaker 1: about the noise complaints. Now, are you sorry about banishing

1381
01:15:56,439 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 1: me from society and treating me like I'm some sort

1382
01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:04,360
Speaker 1: of letter because I want to keep my immune system intach. Sorry, guys,

1383
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:08,320
Speaker 1: the horns stand. Stuff it up your ass. Anyone that

1384
01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:11,000
Speaker 1: has a problem with loud noises, we have a problem

1385
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:15,599
Speaker 1: be advanished from society. Apologies for that, But now I

1386
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:18,200
Speaker 1: hope you have a better understanding of the type of

1387
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:22,200
Speaker 1: conspiratorial thinking among the people in this convoy and the

1388
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:26,519
Speaker 1: importance this whole thing means to them. So with this,

1389
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:29,360
Speaker 1: that wraps up my part one of my deep dive

1390
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:33,439
Speaker 1: into the Canadian Freedom Convoy. In the next episode, we'll

1391
01:16:33,479 --> 01:16:36,800
Speaker 1: get into the border blockades both in Alberta and the

1392
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:40,599
Speaker 1: Ambassador Bridge which is preventing some international trade. We'll get

1393
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 1: into some of the smaller protests and attempted occupations in

1394
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:46,759
Speaker 1: other cities across Canada, and how the situation is evolving

1395
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:50,160
Speaker 1: in Ottawa and what types of long term political ramifications

1396
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:53,080
Speaker 1: this protest and any attempt to suppress it will have.

1397
01:16:54,040 --> 01:17:12,200
Speaker 1: So with that, see you on the other side, welcome

1398
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:15,519
Speaker 1: to it could happen here, And the second part of

1399
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 1: my little mini series going into the occupation and blockade

1400
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:25,680
Speaker 1: protests all across Canada that's been happening the past three weeks.

1401
01:17:26,439 --> 01:17:29,080
Speaker 1: For part two, we'll be starting off with a change

1402
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:33,040
Speaker 1: of scenery. Instead of the loud, cramped streets of Data

1403
01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:36,439
Speaker 1: and Ottawa and the castle like Parliament building, will be

1404
01:17:36,479 --> 01:17:40,599
Speaker 1: taking a detour to the snow covered prairies and oil

1405
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:45,800
Speaker 1: fields of rural Alberta. As the convoy officially arrived in

1406
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:50,639
Speaker 1: Ottawa on January, smaller protests against health mandates were also

1407
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:54,640
Speaker 1: happening across the entire country. One of these mini protests

1408
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 1: was happening in the small city of Lethbridge in southern Alberta,

1409
01:17:59,040 --> 01:18:03,720
Speaker 1: but unlike a majority of other non Ottawa protests, the

1410
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:06,640
Speaker 1: one based around left Bridge didn't turn out to be

1411
01:18:06,680 --> 01:18:10,519
Speaker 1: a simple weekend of fair. With hundreds of vehicles, including

1412
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:14,400
Speaker 1: some semi trucks, RVs and farm tractors all gathered together.

1413
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:17,559
Speaker 1: It was decided to take part in a little mini

1414
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:21,040
Speaker 1: convoy of their own, but instead of going to a

1415
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:25,599
Speaker 1: capital building, they rolled towards the international border crossing used

1416
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:29,160
Speaker 1: by truckers in the area. I was able to interview

1417
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:32,519
Speaker 1: gen a left Bridge local who also happens to work

1418
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:36,400
Speaker 1: near the area of the Alberta border blockade, and they

1419
01:18:36,439 --> 01:18:38,639
Speaker 1: kind of gathered in left Bridge here and took off

1420
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:41,679
Speaker 1: about four thirty in the morning, and so they made

1421
01:18:41,680 --> 01:18:44,800
Speaker 1: it down to the village of coots Um, which is

1422
01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:49,479
Speaker 1: essentially right on the border, is the last stop before

1423
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:53,719
Speaker 1: you hit the border at Coots Alberta, sweet Grass, Montana.

1424
01:18:54,520 --> 01:19:00,800
Speaker 1: And they blocked off the highway completely heading both northbound

1425
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:05,120
Speaker 1: and southbound, and they've been camped out since. So it's

1426
01:19:05,160 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 1: my understanding that at that point in time throughout you know,

1427
01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:14,040
Speaker 1: day one, two and three of their protest, UM, there

1428
01:19:14,160 --> 01:19:17,040
Speaker 1: was no getting in or out out of the village

1429
01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:20,240
Speaker 1: of Coops, which is it is a small village about

1430
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:23,639
Speaker 1: two d and fifty residents UM. And it was so

1431
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:27,960
Speaker 1: bad that not even emergency services could get through, UM

1432
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:31,519
Speaker 1: again blocking both lanes of the highway in either direction

1433
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:36,280
Speaker 1: in the ditches UM and just weren't letting up. And

1434
01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:39,599
Speaker 1: so are they even driving anywhere? Or is it are

1435
01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:43,879
Speaker 1: they just like camped there, just camped out there, parked UM.

1436
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:46,599
Speaker 1: And of course you know there's people that will drive

1437
01:19:46,680 --> 01:19:49,960
Speaker 1: down to the border and participate for a couple hours

1438
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,240
Speaker 1: and you know, turn around and go home kind of thing.

1439
01:19:52,280 --> 01:19:56,680
Speaker 1: But there is that core group UM, the majority of

1440
01:19:56,680 --> 01:20:00,120
Speaker 1: which are actually farmers bringing down like their tractors, and

1441
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:04,240
Speaker 1: of course there is UM some semitruck drivers who are

1442
01:20:04,280 --> 01:20:07,479
Speaker 1: all a part of it and just not allowing anyone

1443
01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:10,559
Speaker 1: to get through on either side, so you know, holding

1444
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:14,160
Speaker 1: up a lot of a lot of our supplies, a

1445
01:20:14,160 --> 01:20:18,679
Speaker 1: lot of our UM food and things like that. At first,

1446
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:22,960
Speaker 1: local police and RCMP just waited out the blockade, I guess,

1447
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:25,280
Speaker 1: hoping to see if the people would just get tired

1448
01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:27,600
Speaker 1: of camping out in the cold and then you know,

1449
01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:32,479
Speaker 1: go home. But after a few days that possibility seemed

1450
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:37,000
Speaker 1: less and less likely. Then when the RCMP did start

1451
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:40,520
Speaker 1: to get more actively involved with kind of managing the blockade,

1452
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:43,839
Speaker 1: albeit you know, with a very gentle hand and extremely

1453
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:46,760
Speaker 1: start contrast to how our CMP handles blockades, you know,

1454
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:49,960
Speaker 1: defending indigenous land. But at that point it was already

1455
01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:53,559
Speaker 1: kind of too late, and the pacified police action only

1456
01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:58,320
Speaker 1: spread the protests efforts. On day four of the blockade

1457
01:20:58,360 --> 01:21:02,160
Speaker 1: at the border um, the RCMP had kind of moved

1458
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:04,040
Speaker 1: in a little bit to try to break it up.

1459
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:08,120
Speaker 1: So some of the the protesters had kind of broken

1460
01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 1: off and decided to blockade's mother areas. So there was

1461
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:15,120
Speaker 1: a blockade that happened on Highway three just outside of

1462
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:18,680
Speaker 1: the town of Fort McLeod, on the way to the

1463
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:21,400
Speaker 1: town of Brockett, which would be on the Blood Reserve

1464
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:24,920
Speaker 1: here in Alberta. UM. They blockaded the highway and wouldn't

1465
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:28,960
Speaker 1: let anyone through, and then they set up another blockade

1466
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:32,800
Speaker 1: um on Highway twenty three, which of course would be

1467
01:21:32,840 --> 01:21:36,120
Speaker 1: the the next north south route. Given that Highway three

1468
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:40,000
Speaker 1: was now blocked off, the Highway three going to Highway two. Um.

1469
01:21:40,080 --> 01:21:44,160
Speaker 1: So they've blocked off Highway twenty three. Um at there's

1470
01:21:44,160 --> 01:21:47,080
Speaker 1: a traffic circle or a roundabout kind of in the

1471
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere in the highway at the village of Nobleford, sorry,

1472
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:54,600
Speaker 1: town of Nobleford, and they set up a blockade at

1473
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:56,960
Speaker 1: the roundabout as well. Wouldn't let anyone come in north

1474
01:21:57,000 --> 01:22:02,599
Speaker 1: south east west, didn't matter. Uh So that was Tuesday. Tuesday,

1475
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:10,559
Speaker 1: highways to UH four and three. Yeah, effectively shutting down,

1476
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:12,560
Speaker 1: and they kind of like travel for like food and

1477
01:22:12,600 --> 01:22:17,600
Speaker 1: supplies for like all four directions pretty much exactly. Yeah. Like,

1478
01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:22,160
Speaker 1: there was a lot of chatter on social media. Um,

1479
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:25,160
Speaker 1: we have a local Facebook group for road conditions, and

1480
01:22:25,160 --> 01:22:27,320
Speaker 1: there was a lot of chatter, you know, where do

1481
01:22:27,400 --> 01:22:29,920
Speaker 1: we go, how do we get around this? What back roads?

1482
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:33,719
Speaker 1: Should I take? Secondary highways? That sort of thing. And thankfully,

1483
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:36,519
Speaker 1: you know, there was still I suppose some ways to

1484
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:38,960
Speaker 1: get around it. The RCMP we're kind of setting up

1485
01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:44,360
Speaker 1: detours and things like that, but those main routes were blockaded,

1486
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:48,400
Speaker 1: um on Tuesday, which would have been I guess what

1487
01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:52,960
Speaker 1: days that February one. The static highway blockades preventing traffic

1488
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:55,879
Speaker 1: in all four directions were mostly a one day affair.

1489
01:22:56,640 --> 01:22:59,960
Speaker 1: The next Wednesday morning, more effort was put back into

1490
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:03,160
Speaker 1: the main blockade at the border near Coots, with some

1491
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:06,640
Speaker 1: folks still participating in the rolling blockades of sorts you know,

1492
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:10,040
Speaker 1: on the surrounding highways. So instead of just blocking the

1493
01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:13,800
Speaker 1: roads by staying parked people in vehicles kept a slow

1494
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:17,240
Speaker 1: loop of traffic moving through the highway system to clog

1495
01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:20,240
Speaker 1: up travel. And then like the contingent at closer to

1496
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:24,360
Speaker 1: the border has been more consistent, you would say, yeah, definitely,

1497
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:28,360
Speaker 1: the contingent at the border on highway for like I said,

1498
01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:31,559
Speaker 1: at Coots, Alberta, they've been set up all the way

1499
01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:35,360
Speaker 1: through since the twenty nine UM. There has been days

1500
01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:39,960
Speaker 1: where the tensions are definitely very high where those protesters

1501
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:43,880
Speaker 1: are saying we will not leave until UM or we

1502
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:47,760
Speaker 1: won't even come to the negotiating table until these restrictions

1503
01:23:47,880 --> 01:23:52,920
Speaker 1: are gone, like we won't even attempt and so the

1504
01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:57,559
Speaker 1: RCMP have been kind of in negotiations with them over

1505
01:23:57,600 --> 01:23:59,479
Speaker 1: the last few days. There's been a couple of times

1506
01:23:59,479 --> 01:24:02,680
Speaker 1: where they they had resolution to open up lanes of

1507
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:05,639
Speaker 1: travel to get some of these trucks with goods through

1508
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:08,880
Speaker 1: Um and of course there's been people stuck in their

1509
01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:11,519
Speaker 1: cars as well for quite a few days without food.

1510
01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:14,960
Speaker 1: At that point, UM the protesters originally had come to

1511
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:17,599
Speaker 1: an agreement with the RCNP to let some people through

1512
01:24:18,160 --> 01:24:20,800
Speaker 1: and then turn around and decided, well, we don't really

1513
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:25,640
Speaker 1: want to. So that was kind of ongoing from I'm

1514
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:30,760
Speaker 1: going to suggest up until about second UM. On the

1515
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:34,640
Speaker 1: second the RCMP had set up a roadblock at the

1516
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:40,360
Speaker 1: town of Milk River to uh, I guess, dissuade the

1517
01:24:40,360 --> 01:24:43,720
Speaker 1: the locals from coming out and adding to the congestion

1518
01:24:43,800 --> 01:24:47,200
Speaker 1: and adding to the problems. And at one point UM

1519
01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:51,200
Speaker 1: there was a group of people and videos are on TikTok,

1520
01:24:51,200 --> 01:24:57,000
Speaker 1: they're on Facebook, they're on Twitter, where people are blasting

1521
01:24:57,040 --> 01:24:59,839
Speaker 1: through the barricades, going through the ditch, going through the median,

1522
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:06,480
Speaker 1: just bypassing it completely to get down to the convoy protest.

1523
01:25:07,200 --> 01:25:10,639
Speaker 1: As I record this, the border crossing port of entry

1524
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:13,720
Speaker 1: near the town of Coots has been largely impassable for

1525
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:18,120
Speaker 1: over two weeks. It's a major trade hub where millions

1526
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:21,519
Speaker 1: of dollars worth of agricultural products like meat and feed

1527
01:25:22,040 --> 01:25:25,800
Speaker 1: trade hands each day. The first day had hundreds of

1528
01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:29,240
Speaker 1: vehicles participating in blocking access to the trade route along

1529
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:33,160
Speaker 1: highway for but after a week of blockading the Alberta,

1530
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:36,960
Speaker 1: Montana border crossing, around eighty big rigs continued to remain

1531
01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:40,280
Speaker 1: along the highway for a majority of the time. Since

1532
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:43,519
Speaker 1: the twenty nine of January, vehicle access has been either

1533
01:25:43,560 --> 01:25:46,280
Speaker 1: completely stopped to and from the border or at least

1534
01:25:46,360 --> 01:25:50,599
Speaker 1: substantially slowed down. The occasional day where vehicles are being

1535
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:53,560
Speaker 1: let through on one lane of traffic has an estimated

1536
01:25:53,800 --> 01:25:56,320
Speaker 1: seven hours of stall time order to get through just

1537
01:25:56,400 --> 01:26:00,520
Speaker 1: that tiny area of road. The blockade of that International

1538
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:04,120
Speaker 1: report of entry at Coots and the only seven commercial

1539
01:26:04,200 --> 01:26:07,040
Speaker 1: land crossing in Alberta is a direct threat to the

1540
01:26:07,080 --> 01:26:11,280
Speaker 1: economic well being of growers, producers, manufacturers, and many other

1541
01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:14,800
Speaker 1: businesses that rely on the movement of both raw materials

1542
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:18,720
Speaker 1: and finished goods in and out along the can m

1543
01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:24,240
Speaker 1: X corridor end quote. Lewington has warned that manufacturing plants

1544
01:26:24,240 --> 01:26:26,680
Speaker 1: in the region will be forced to either reduce or

1545
01:26:26,800 --> 01:26:30,160
Speaker 1: cancel production as their supplies run out and they're unable

1546
01:26:30,200 --> 01:26:33,599
Speaker 1: to get their goods to international markets. This is something

1547
01:26:33,680 --> 01:26:36,519
Speaker 1: farmers and food producers are dealing with as well as

1548
01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:40,080
Speaker 1: agricultural experts are one of the region's main economic drivers.

1549
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:45,200
Speaker 1: In the left Bridge metropolitan area exported nearly one point

1550
01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:48,559
Speaker 1: eight billion dollars worth of goods, around eighty percent of

1551
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:51,200
Speaker 1: which went to the United States. A vast majority of

1552
01:26:51,240 --> 01:26:55,200
Speaker 1: these exports went through this Coots border crossing. That means

1553
01:26:55,240 --> 01:26:57,439
Speaker 1: for the city of lefth Bridge alone, they're facing a

1554
01:26:57,520 --> 01:27:00,400
Speaker 1: roughly three million dollar a day impact on the economic

1555
01:27:00,439 --> 01:27:03,240
Speaker 1: damage based on the road and rail travel that must

1556
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:05,920
Speaker 1: move through that port of entry. The impact is of

1557
01:27:05,960 --> 01:27:08,439
Speaker 1: course four or five times larger than if you consider

1558
01:27:08,520 --> 01:27:10,960
Speaker 1: the movement of other Alberta goods in and out of

1559
01:27:10,960 --> 01:27:15,559
Speaker 1: that same North South corridor. It's only more ironic and

1560
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:20,120
Speaker 1: frustrating considering that the idea of shutting down international capitalist trade,

1561
01:27:20,240 --> 01:27:23,360
Speaker 1: you know, costing millions dollars in losses each and every day,

1562
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:26,240
Speaker 1: is exactly the sort of thing that these same conservatives

1563
01:27:26,280 --> 01:27:29,920
Speaker 1: would complain that BLM or Antifa would do, you know, like,

1564
01:27:29,960 --> 01:27:33,240
Speaker 1: in terms of anti capitalist action, this is actually more

1565
01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:36,800
Speaker 1: successful in causing damage to capital than really anything I've

1566
01:27:36,800 --> 01:27:40,280
Speaker 1: seen the Canadian left do in recent memory. Now, obviously

1567
01:27:40,320 --> 01:27:43,719
Speaker 1: police response to a left wing protest, you know, doing

1568
01:27:44,040 --> 01:27:47,160
Speaker 1: similar tactics would probably greatly differ, you know, Plus the

1569
01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:50,920
Speaker 1: fact that these people are participating in these blockades are

1570
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:53,799
Speaker 1: the same types of people that talk about their desire

1571
01:27:53,880 --> 01:27:57,360
Speaker 1: to run down protesters in trucks, you know, whenever there's

1572
01:27:57,400 --> 01:27:59,840
Speaker 1: marching in the street or an indigenous road blockade to

1573
01:27:59,880 --> 01:28:04,080
Speaker 1: an new oil pipeline. Nevertheless, on top of the police inability,

1574
01:28:04,160 --> 01:28:08,519
Speaker 1: whether by choice or imagination, to handle the situation, and

1575
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:12,160
Speaker 1: considering both the conspiracy fueled political issues around masks of

1576
01:28:12,200 --> 01:28:15,639
Speaker 1: vaccines and health man dates and the growing economic problems

1577
01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:18,840
Speaker 1: the blockade is causing, it's not super surprising that the

1578
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:22,519
Speaker 1: Conservative government of Alberta began the process of removing health

1579
01:28:22,560 --> 01:28:26,559
Speaker 1: mandates as the protests striked on. And unfortunately, it seems

1580
01:28:26,600 --> 01:28:29,879
Speaker 1: like the province is listening and they're taking it seriously.

1581
01:28:29,920 --> 01:28:33,760
Speaker 1: I know. Um last night our premier had gone on

1582
01:28:33,800 --> 01:28:37,680
Speaker 1: Facebook Live and had an ounce that come Monday, the

1583
01:28:37,680 --> 01:28:40,200
Speaker 1: caucus will vote as to whether or not to scrap

1584
01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:44,160
Speaker 1: it um, which would mean that, like I said, now

1585
01:28:44,439 --> 01:28:47,000
Speaker 1: there's no longer that requirement to access some of these

1586
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:51,479
Speaker 1: these services from private businesses. And then ultimately that would

1587
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:55,320
Speaker 1: lead us back into our letter rip model that we

1588
01:28:55,439 --> 01:28:58,920
Speaker 1: had last summer. The Monday vote came in the next day,

1589
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:03,080
Speaker 1: February eighth. Alberta Premiere and premiers are like the you

1590
01:29:03,080 --> 01:29:06,719
Speaker 1: know equivalent of governors for the states, but Alberta Premiere

1591
01:29:06,840 --> 01:29:10,200
Speaker 1: Jason Kenny announced that the provinces so called COVID nineteen

1592
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:15,040
Speaker 1: vaccine passport program would end immediately, explaining that the restriction

1593
01:29:15,080 --> 01:29:17,439
Speaker 1: program had served its purpose, but it is no longer

1594
01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:20,600
Speaker 1: needed since Alberta has passed the peak of omercron infections

1595
01:29:20,640 --> 01:29:23,960
Speaker 1: about three weeks ago. Capacity limits were also next Tuesday

1596
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:27,519
Speaker 1: night for venues with capacity limits under five hundred, including

1597
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:31,560
Speaker 1: libraries and places of worship. An effect of this past Sunday, February,

1598
01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:35,639
Speaker 1: the province will also no longer require masking for children

1599
01:29:35,680 --> 01:29:39,280
Speaker 1: and youth in schools and for any Alberton's aged twelve

1600
01:29:39,320 --> 01:29:42,799
Speaker 1: and under in any setting. There is a second phase

1601
01:29:42,840 --> 01:29:46,280
Speaker 1: for Alberta's COVID restriction removal plan. On March one. The

1602
01:29:46,320 --> 01:29:49,280
Speaker 1: province is set to remove any remaining restrictions, including the

1603
01:29:49,280 --> 01:29:53,680
Speaker 1: indoor mask mandate, work from home requirements, any remaining capacity limits,

1604
01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:57,200
Speaker 1: and limits on social gatherings and screenings for youth activities.

1605
01:29:57,720 --> 01:30:00,439
Speaker 1: Jason Kenny did deny that the move has has anything

1606
01:30:00,479 --> 01:30:02,679
Speaker 1: to do with the protests from those you know demanding

1607
01:30:02,720 --> 01:30:06,000
Speaker 1: the repeal of vaccine mandates of all types across the country,

1608
01:30:06,280 --> 01:30:09,320
Speaker 1: including the blockade that the government had condemned illegal at

1609
01:30:09,439 --> 01:30:13,120
Speaker 1: the Coots border crossing, saying, quote, none of that has

1610
01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:15,360
Speaker 1: anything to do with a few trucks participating at the

1611
01:30:15,360 --> 01:30:19,160
Speaker 1: Coots border crossing. Um, who added that keeping previous rules

1612
01:30:19,200 --> 01:30:22,920
Speaker 1: in place would invite widespread non compliance for no purpose,

1613
01:30:23,160 --> 01:30:25,880
Speaker 1: saying why keep this going on for a few days

1614
01:30:25,920 --> 01:30:28,240
Speaker 1: when we know that in many areas were already having

1615
01:30:28,280 --> 01:30:32,960
Speaker 1: non compliance problems. So yeah, Um, of course, the demonstrations

1616
01:30:33,400 --> 01:30:38,080
Speaker 1: have continued despite Alberta dropping multiple health measures and agreeing

1617
01:30:38,120 --> 01:30:40,320
Speaker 1: to a demand made by a lot of the anti

1618
01:30:40,360 --> 01:30:44,559
Speaker 1: mandate protesters, which implies that this protest is about much

1619
01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:48,160
Speaker 1: more than simple COVID health measures. Right. It points to

1620
01:30:48,160 --> 01:30:51,839
Speaker 1: the movement being more about taking political power and forcing

1621
01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:55,960
Speaker 1: everyone to comply with their own conspiratorial and alienated understanding

1622
01:30:56,040 --> 01:30:59,759
Speaker 1: of the world. As someone who's like living in Alberta,

1623
01:30:59,800 --> 01:31:01,919
Speaker 1: which is, you know, one of the more conservative provinces

1624
01:31:01,960 --> 01:31:06,120
Speaker 1: of Canada, Um, how much do you see this kind

1625
01:31:06,160 --> 01:31:10,719
Speaker 1: of this kind of you know, spontaneous revolt and resistance

1626
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:14,240
Speaker 1: to be actually tied to the health man dates and

1627
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:15,640
Speaker 1: how much do you see it? It's more like a

1628
01:31:15,680 --> 01:31:19,680
Speaker 1: revolt around like Trudeau and Canada's like Canada's like um

1629
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:23,040
Speaker 1: veneer of liberalism like like like how like how much

1630
01:31:23,080 --> 01:31:25,120
Speaker 1: do you did you see? It's more like a urban

1631
01:31:25,479 --> 01:31:28,400
Speaker 1: rule divide thing that's now just getting pushed into the

1632
01:31:28,439 --> 01:31:31,519
Speaker 1: spotlight because of covid um or do you think it

1633
01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:35,840
Speaker 1: really is way more about covid itself? Um, I think

1634
01:31:35,960 --> 01:31:38,320
Speaker 1: that the pandemic has definitely had a role to play

1635
01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:43,160
Speaker 1: in sparking a lot of this this fearer and this uh,

1636
01:31:43,240 --> 01:31:48,880
Speaker 1: this disconnect, But the seeds have been sown for many years,

1637
01:31:49,320 --> 01:31:54,960
Speaker 1: through many successive provincial governments and and much rhetoric that um,

1638
01:31:55,160 --> 01:31:58,439
Speaker 1: the West has always been ignored by the East, by

1639
01:31:58,560 --> 01:32:03,719
Speaker 1: our politic institutions in the East, namely Otto our federal government,

1640
01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:08,080
Speaker 1: the seat of our federal government in favor of you know,

1641
01:32:08,240 --> 01:32:11,640
Speaker 1: Ontario and Quebec and what they want to Alberton's have

1642
01:32:11,720 --> 01:32:15,560
Speaker 1: always seen themselves with a bit of a martyr complex

1643
01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:19,360
Speaker 1: where we are the economic powerhouse of the country, but

1644
01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:22,920
Speaker 1: we are the ugly stepchild and we are ignored in

1645
01:32:23,000 --> 01:32:27,920
Speaker 1: favor of the wonderful children in the East. And so

1646
01:32:28,040 --> 01:32:32,040
Speaker 1: that that disconnect and that divide has always been there,

1647
01:32:32,520 --> 01:32:35,799
Speaker 1: and the pandemic has been the catalyst. Um. And of course,

1648
01:32:36,360 --> 01:32:40,400
Speaker 1: you know, whenever there is a federal Liberal party that's

1649
01:32:40,439 --> 01:32:45,879
Speaker 1: in in power, the conservatives feel the Conservatives in Alberta

1650
01:32:46,439 --> 01:32:50,479
Speaker 1: and in the West they feel even more disenfranchised. They

1651
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:54,400
Speaker 1: feel that this this government doesn't hear them, they don't

1652
01:32:54,439 --> 01:32:57,960
Speaker 1: listen to them, they don't you know, follow the whims

1653
01:32:58,040 --> 01:33:02,240
Speaker 1: of you know, the died in the world conservatives. And

1654
01:33:02,280 --> 01:33:04,840
Speaker 1: so that rhetoric has built and built and built over

1655
01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:07,800
Speaker 1: the years, um. And it's all tied into other things

1656
01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:10,200
Speaker 1: as well. It's tied into the economic policies and the

1657
01:33:10,320 --> 01:33:15,719
Speaker 1: policies of the liberal government with in regards to climate

1658
01:33:15,800 --> 01:33:20,080
Speaker 1: change and carbon tax and how how that's been hitting

1659
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:27,000
Speaker 1: um Albertan's you know, they our province is very heavily

1660
01:33:27,040 --> 01:33:30,559
Speaker 1: dependent upon the oil and gas sector and it always

1661
01:33:30,600 --> 01:33:34,519
Speaker 1: has been for the last I'm gonna suggest fifty six years.

1662
01:33:35,640 --> 01:33:38,920
Speaker 1: And so when they see things like in Autumna, where

1663
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:42,040
Speaker 1: they're talking about climate change and they're talking about you know,

1664
01:33:42,160 --> 01:33:45,760
Speaker 1: green energy, it makes these conservatives angry because this has

1665
01:33:45,800 --> 01:33:48,679
Speaker 1: been our bread and butter for years. This is what's

1666
01:33:48,720 --> 01:33:52,800
Speaker 1: fed our families. They don't recognize that, you know, this

1667
01:33:52,920 --> 01:33:55,960
Speaker 1: is this is the path forward. All they hear is

1668
01:33:56,600 --> 01:33:59,240
Speaker 1: we don't want you, we don't want your jobs, we

1669
01:33:59,280 --> 01:34:03,880
Speaker 1: don't want your products. And they're angry and this has

1670
01:34:03,920 --> 01:34:09,120
Speaker 1: been the catalyst now where they're just fed up. They're

1671
01:34:09,439 --> 01:34:14,280
Speaker 1: up with with not being heard. Unfortunately, all that built

1672
01:34:14,360 --> 01:34:17,160
Speaker 1: up anger and resentment towards the government and its leadership

1673
01:34:17,600 --> 01:34:20,719
Speaker 1: is ending up being taken out against just any symbol

1674
01:34:20,720 --> 01:34:24,639
Speaker 1: of liberalism, not really the government directly. You know. Within

1675
01:34:24,760 --> 01:34:28,679
Speaker 1: this worldview, homophobic attacks can be then thought up as

1676
01:34:28,720 --> 01:34:32,400
Speaker 1: this weird form of punching up because gainness is associated

1677
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:36,280
Speaker 1: with liberalism, so it's seen as almost this system of power,

1678
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:40,439
Speaker 1: even though it's that's obviously backwards. It's this kind of

1679
01:34:40,479 --> 01:34:44,320
Speaker 1: weird backwards thing where you can view like attacking progressive

1680
01:34:44,360 --> 01:34:47,200
Speaker 1: things as an attack on the system. So that means

1681
01:34:47,280 --> 01:34:53,600
Speaker 1: like being racist or being homophobic, is this rebellion against

1682
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:56,280
Speaker 1: you know, the system itself, even though it just ties

1683
01:34:56,320 --> 01:34:59,519
Speaker 1: into all those same systemic issues. Just the other day

1684
01:34:59,520 --> 01:35:03,600
Speaker 1: in edmund And there was a business owner, uh, a

1685
01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:08,439
Speaker 1: hair salon owner, who's been very outspoken about this Freedom

1686
01:35:08,479 --> 01:35:11,920
Speaker 1: Convoy and about how she doesn't agree with their messaging

1687
01:35:12,040 --> 01:35:18,800
Speaker 1: and their their ideas, and she was actually hunted down

1688
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:22,240
Speaker 1: on social media, um, hunted down in person. They found her,

1689
01:35:22,360 --> 01:35:26,000
Speaker 1: someone found her her business, went to her business and

1690
01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:29,719
Speaker 1: confronted her and assaulted her UM at her business, all

1691
01:35:29,800 --> 01:35:34,080
Speaker 1: because she uh does not support the convoy, and apparently

1692
01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:38,879
Speaker 1: this individual did. UM. You know, we definitely, we definitely

1693
01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:43,040
Speaker 1: see here that UM. The feeling is is that if

1694
01:35:43,040 --> 01:35:46,160
Speaker 1: you are a liberal in Alberta, this is not the

1695
01:35:46,160 --> 01:35:51,760
Speaker 1: place for you. UM. You know, if you if you

1696
01:35:52,120 --> 01:35:56,200
Speaker 1: believe in you know, equal rights for everyone, this is

1697
01:35:56,200 --> 01:36:00,360
Speaker 1: not the place for you. If you believe in the

1698
01:36:00,479 --> 01:36:05,120
Speaker 1: rights of marginalized and minority communities, this is not the

1699
01:36:05,160 --> 01:36:08,920
Speaker 1: place for you. And we I've seen that, you know,

1700
01:36:09,160 --> 01:36:12,760
Speaker 1: and taking part in various protests I suppose that could

1701
01:36:12,760 --> 01:36:15,719
Speaker 1: be branded as liberal protests, like the Black Lives Matter

1702
01:36:15,800 --> 01:36:21,719
Speaker 1: protests and um, the protests and rallies that were held

1703
01:36:21,760 --> 01:36:26,240
Speaker 1: in support of the indigenous communities last summer upon you know,

1704
01:36:26,360 --> 01:36:30,560
Speaker 1: the news that kind of shook the world regarding um

1705
01:36:30,800 --> 01:36:35,080
Speaker 1: graves at residential schools, and you know, you see it

1706
01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:40,120
Speaker 1: with the indigenous communities that protests pipelines on their traditional

1707
01:36:40,200 --> 01:36:43,559
Speaker 1: lands and they block you know, railways, and the same

1708
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:48,800
Speaker 1: people that are screaming for jail time and for violence

1709
01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:54,600
Speaker 1: and and police intervention on these various protests are the

1710
01:36:54,640 --> 01:36:57,600
Speaker 1: same people that are taking part in a convoy. Protesters

1711
01:36:57,640 --> 01:36:59,840
Speaker 1: at the Cootes border crossing will now be charged or

1712
01:37:00,000 --> 01:37:04,160
Speaker 1: mind according to the province and the RCMP. R CMP

1713
01:37:04,280 --> 01:37:07,000
Speaker 1: Deputy Chief Curtis is A Blocky said in a news

1714
01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:09,320
Speaker 1: conference during the start out the second week of the

1715
01:37:09,320 --> 01:37:13,120
Speaker 1: Alberta border blockade that police are actively working to diffuse

1716
01:37:13,200 --> 01:37:16,680
Speaker 1: situation at the most important border crossing in Alberta, but

1717
01:37:16,760 --> 01:37:19,679
Speaker 1: are trying to do so peacefully, saying, make no mistake,

1718
01:37:19,760 --> 01:37:22,679
Speaker 1: there are criminal activities taking place at these protest sites

1719
01:37:22,880 --> 01:37:26,400
Speaker 1: that violate both criminal code and provincial laws. We've seen

1720
01:37:26,439 --> 01:37:29,360
Speaker 1: activities that are both dangerous and reckless and are having

1721
01:37:29,360 --> 01:37:32,200
Speaker 1: a very negative effect on Alberton's who live in the area.

1722
01:37:32,800 --> 01:37:35,519
Speaker 1: He then pointed to you know, dwindling numbers involving the

1723
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:38,920
Speaker 1: blockade from a high of around two fifty vehicles to

1724
01:37:39,000 --> 01:37:43,400
Speaker 1: begin with two around fifty vehicles last Tuesday afternoon. As

1725
01:37:43,400 --> 01:37:46,960
Speaker 1: a success of their efforts to this point. But you

1726
01:37:47,000 --> 01:37:50,799
Speaker 1: know this isn't convinced everyone, since the blockade is still happening.

1727
01:37:51,160 --> 01:37:56,040
Speaker 1: So Acting Justice Minister and Solicitor General Sonia Savage called

1728
01:37:56,120 --> 01:37:58,680
Speaker 1: the blockade intolerable and said that those taking part in

1729
01:37:58,680 --> 01:38:02,160
Speaker 1: the demonstration can be charged under several different federal and

1730
01:38:02,200 --> 01:38:06,479
Speaker 1: provincial laws, including the Federal Criminal Code, the Provincial Traffic

1731
01:38:06,520 --> 01:38:10,599
Speaker 1: Safety Act, and the new Critical Infrastructure Defense Act, which

1732
01:38:10,640 --> 01:38:13,840
Speaker 1: was enacted right in the middle of during the international

1733
01:38:13,960 --> 01:38:17,959
Speaker 1: George Floyd uprising and the certain rail blockades in Canada.

1734
01:38:18,280 --> 01:38:20,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to go into many tangent here just because

1735
01:38:20,080 --> 01:38:22,599
Speaker 1: of how terrible this bill is. The bill gives law

1736
01:38:22,680 --> 01:38:26,280
Speaker 1: enforcement and the judicial system extra power to dish out

1737
01:38:26,320 --> 01:38:30,479
Speaker 1: significant monetary fines and extra jail time for actions deemed

1738
01:38:30,520 --> 01:38:35,960
Speaker 1: to interfere with so called essential infrastructure quote unquote. The

1739
01:38:36,040 --> 01:38:38,919
Speaker 1: stated goal of the bill is harsher penalties and charges

1740
01:38:39,240 --> 01:38:43,760
Speaker 1: for quote, damage or interference caused by blockades, protests, or

1741
01:38:43,800 --> 01:38:48,240
Speaker 1: similar activities that can cause significant public safety, social, economic,

1742
01:38:48,439 --> 01:38:52,840
Speaker 1: and environmental consequences. The Act builds on existing trespassing laws

1743
01:38:52,880 --> 01:38:57,120
Speaker 1: to create offenses for trespassing on destroying, damaging, and obstructing

1744
01:38:57,120 --> 01:39:01,160
Speaker 1: the use or operation of any essential infrastructure, also under

1745
01:39:01,200 --> 01:39:04,839
Speaker 1: the banner of essential infrastructure that includes public and private property.

1746
01:39:04,880 --> 01:39:07,719
Speaker 1: By the way, the bill was obviously aimed at left

1747
01:39:07,720 --> 01:39:11,720
Speaker 1: wing protest and specifically equal defense and environmental protest and

1748
01:39:11,960 --> 01:39:15,879
Speaker 1: or sabotage, as the first two things defined as essential

1749
01:39:15,880 --> 01:39:20,200
Speaker 1: infrastructure in the bill are quote, pipelines and related infrastructure

1750
01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:24,559
Speaker 1: and oil and gas production and refinery sites. So yeah.

1751
01:39:24,680 --> 01:39:28,160
Speaker 1: There's also been pressure from government officials to include forfeiture

1752
01:39:28,280 --> 01:39:32,200
Speaker 1: property in the commission of crime through the Civil Forfeiture Act.

1753
01:39:32,680 --> 01:39:35,960
Speaker 1: RCMP Deputy chiefs the blockys that charges will be coming

1754
01:39:35,960 --> 01:39:38,200
Speaker 1: for those taking part in the protest and could be

1755
01:39:38,240 --> 01:39:40,640
Speaker 1: as simple as the way they are illegally parked on

1756
01:39:40,680 --> 01:39:44,200
Speaker 1: the highway. He didn't note that the RCMP has attempted

1757
01:39:44,240 --> 01:39:47,040
Speaker 1: to hire local towing companies to move the trucks and

1758
01:39:47,080 --> 01:39:49,760
Speaker 1: other equipment off the road, but have been unable to

1759
01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:53,400
Speaker 1: do so, with the companies citing concerns over damaged their

1760
01:39:53,400 --> 01:39:56,960
Speaker 1: business long term or just safety issues in general. This

1761
01:39:57,040 --> 01:39:59,439
Speaker 1: has also been a huge factor in attempts to deal

1762
01:39:59,479 --> 01:40:03,760
Speaker 1: with the auto occupation. Zablocki said that there are concerns

1763
01:40:03,760 --> 01:40:06,479
Speaker 1: over safety and violence in response to the more aggressive

1764
01:40:06,520 --> 01:40:09,160
Speaker 1: approaches to breaking up the blockade. So far, the main

1765
01:40:09,200 --> 01:40:12,120
Speaker 1: action law enforcement has taken to dissuay people from blocking

1766
01:40:12,160 --> 01:40:15,200
Speaker 1: the border is just giving out tickets and fines for

1767
01:40:15,280 --> 01:40:18,759
Speaker 1: illegal parking. Premier Jason Kenny said that he is supportive

1768
01:40:18,920 --> 01:40:22,479
Speaker 1: of our CMP handling this as they see fit through

1769
01:40:22,520 --> 01:40:25,080
Speaker 1: the means that they already have, and has been supportive

1770
01:40:25,200 --> 01:40:29,680
Speaker 1: of using the you know, pretty horribly authoritarian Critical Infrastructure

1771
01:40:29,800 --> 01:40:33,799
Speaker 1: Defense Act, saying quote, last year we passed the Defense

1772
01:40:33,840 --> 01:40:37,880
Speaker 1: of Critical Infrastructure Act, which gives police enormous powers and

1773
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:41,600
Speaker 1: various defines the penalties, including the power of imprisonment. We

1774
01:40:41,640 --> 01:40:43,320
Speaker 1: have made it clear to the RCMP, who is our

1775
01:40:43,360 --> 01:40:46,920
Speaker 1: provincial policing service, that they can and should use all

1776
01:40:46,960 --> 01:40:49,799
Speaker 1: of these powers. They're dealing with a very fluid situation,

1777
01:40:49,880 --> 01:40:53,240
Speaker 1: and I have respect for their judgment. Prime Minister Justin

1778
01:40:53,280 --> 01:40:57,000
Speaker 1: Trudeau addressed the ongoing blockades and protests across the country

1779
01:40:57,040 --> 01:41:01,439
Speaker 1: this past Friday, encouraging demonstrators to leave, while also passing

1780
01:41:01,439 --> 01:41:04,479
Speaker 1: the buck on any blame, saying quote, I want to

1781
01:41:04,520 --> 01:41:07,679
Speaker 1: remind everybody that politicians don't direct police departments to enforce

1782
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:12,880
Speaker 1: the law. Instead, Trudeau made vague threats around revoking licenses

1783
01:41:12,920 --> 01:41:17,320
Speaker 1: and criminal records for those continuing to protest, saying everything

1784
01:41:17,360 --> 01:41:20,280
Speaker 1: is on the table because this unlawful blockade has to

1785
01:41:20,439 --> 01:41:24,639
Speaker 1: end and will end. The blockade at the Cootes border

1786
01:41:24,680 --> 01:41:28,320
Speaker 1: crossing is not the only convoy aligned protest in Alberta.

1787
01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:32,440
Speaker 1: There have been many demonstrations in basically every major city

1788
01:41:32,760 --> 01:41:36,720
Speaker 1: in Calgary. The Alberta Union of Provincial Employees says that

1789
01:41:36,840 --> 01:41:40,639
Speaker 1: frontline healthcare workers, patients and people living around the Sheldon

1790
01:41:40,720 --> 01:41:44,599
Speaker 1: Camere Health Center have dealt with protests for weeks, but

1791
01:41:44,920 --> 01:41:47,599
Speaker 1: things have only gotten worse since the truck convoy hit

1792
01:41:47,680 --> 01:41:52,000
Speaker 1: the news. The vice president of the Alberta Union for

1793
01:41:52,040 --> 01:41:55,920
Speaker 1: Provincial Employees said that protesters have blocked the ambulance bain,

1794
01:41:56,000 --> 01:41:58,280
Speaker 1: they have harassed workers and patients as they come to

1795
01:41:58,560 --> 01:42:01,160
Speaker 1: and from the center. They've banged on the windows of

1796
01:42:01,200 --> 01:42:04,080
Speaker 1: the facility and upset people inside, and they have blocked

1797
01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:07,400
Speaker 1: the roads around the center. Moving on to the province

1798
01:42:07,400 --> 01:42:11,040
Speaker 1: of British Columbia, as the second weekend of protest was

1799
01:42:11,120 --> 01:42:14,280
Speaker 1: set to descend on Vancouver the weekend of February five,

1800
01:42:14,920 --> 01:42:17,840
Speaker 1: in preparation fearing attacks would be carried out against healthcare

1801
01:42:17,880 --> 01:42:20,760
Speaker 1: workers like they have in the past. Vancouver's to health

1802
01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:25,120
Speaker 1: authorities issued internal ms telling health workers to hide indoors

1803
01:42:25,120 --> 01:42:27,799
Speaker 1: as the convoy pass through the city and to quote

1804
01:42:28,080 --> 01:42:31,759
Speaker 1: refrain from wearing scrubs and or your ID badge outside

1805
01:42:31,800 --> 01:42:35,160
Speaker 1: the hospital during the demonstration. If you do encounter any protesters,

1806
01:42:35,160 --> 01:42:37,639
Speaker 1: please do not engage with them or respond to their questions,

1807
01:42:37,880 --> 01:42:40,200
Speaker 1: and please do not ask protesters to put on a

1808
01:42:40,280 --> 01:42:44,720
Speaker 1: face mask. Similarly, ahead of a protest in Toronto, the

1809
01:42:44,760 --> 01:42:48,200
Speaker 1: Toronto Police sent letters to hospitals advising their workers to

1810
01:42:48,280 --> 01:42:51,280
Speaker 1: not wear any clothing or markings that identified them as

1811
01:42:51,360 --> 01:42:56,160
Speaker 1: working in healthcare, fearing attacks by protesters. As the second

1812
01:42:56,160 --> 01:42:59,320
Speaker 1: wave of the convoy arrived during the second weekend of

1813
01:42:59,400 --> 01:43:02,519
Speaker 1: the occupation in Ottawa, some of the on the ground

1814
01:43:02,760 --> 01:43:07,840
Speaker 1: organizational structure started to morphin evolves. The police estimated around

1815
01:43:07,840 --> 01:43:10,680
Speaker 1: this time that five thousand people were still protesting in

1816
01:43:10,720 --> 01:43:14,839
Speaker 1: Ottawa and around one thousand vehicles were clogging the streets

1817
01:43:15,400 --> 01:43:17,720
Speaker 1: during the second week of protests. In an effort to

1818
01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:22,280
Speaker 1: improve optics, considering the four original organizers explicit connections to

1819
01:43:22,360 --> 01:43:26,280
Speaker 1: the far right, a new lead organizational, public relations and

1820
01:43:26,360 --> 01:43:29,240
Speaker 1: bargaining team was assembled for the group, calling themselves the

1821
01:43:29,400 --> 01:43:35,240
Speaker 1: Freedom Convoy. The new pseudo leadership team consists of Daniel Bulford,

1822
01:43:35,320 --> 01:43:38,759
Speaker 1: a former RCMP officer who was on the Prime Minister's

1823
01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:42,200
Speaker 1: security detail. He quit last year after refusing to get

1824
01:43:42,240 --> 01:43:45,160
Speaker 1: the vaccine and is now the convoy's head of security.

1825
01:43:45,880 --> 01:43:49,640
Speaker 1: Tom Quicken, former military intelligence officer who also worked with

1826
01:43:49,640 --> 01:43:52,559
Speaker 1: the RCMP and was considered one of the country's top

1827
01:43:52,760 --> 01:43:58,639
Speaker 1: counter terrorism experts. And Tom Marazo, an ex military officer who,

1828
01:43:58,640 --> 01:44:02,120
Speaker 1: according to his linked in profile, served in the Canadian

1829
01:44:02,360 --> 01:44:05,360
Speaker 1: Armed Forces for twenty five years and ours as a

1830
01:44:05,360 --> 01:44:09,160
Speaker 1: freelance software developer. And just side note in terms of

1831
01:44:09,240 --> 01:44:13,440
Speaker 1: you know, police and former military participating in the protests,

1832
01:44:13,760 --> 01:44:17,240
Speaker 1: there was an organization full of retired police that endorsed

1833
01:44:17,240 --> 01:44:19,880
Speaker 1: the convoy a few weeks ago and said that they

1834
01:44:19,920 --> 01:44:24,000
Speaker 1: have people on the ground there and just got announced

1835
01:44:24,120 --> 01:44:27,400
Speaker 1: as as I'm recording this, that two members of Canada's

1836
01:44:27,680 --> 01:44:31,920
Speaker 1: military counter terrorism unit is under investigation for allegedly taking

1837
01:44:31,960 --> 01:44:36,360
Speaker 1: part in the Ottawa Convoy protests. So yeah, that's fun.

1838
01:44:38,000 --> 01:44:40,519
Speaker 1: The occupation has been getting more and more organized on

1839
01:44:40,560 --> 01:44:43,439
Speaker 1: the ground the past two weeks and has been able

1840
01:44:43,479 --> 01:44:46,000
Speaker 1: to keep one step ahead of any action taken against

1841
01:44:46,040 --> 01:44:51,560
Speaker 1: police against the occupation. Even just what the convoy participants

1842
01:44:51,600 --> 01:44:54,840
Speaker 1: have physically built is impressive. Less than a week after

1843
01:44:54,880 --> 01:44:57,639
Speaker 1: the convoy arrived, you started to see wooden structures being

1844
01:44:57,640 --> 01:45:00,240
Speaker 1: built around the roads and a growing stockp all of

1845
01:45:00,280 --> 01:45:04,000
Speaker 1: propane and diesel fuel. There is an impressive amount of

1846
01:45:04,000 --> 01:45:07,760
Speaker 1: tents and wind structures used for kitchens that local organizers

1847
01:45:07,840 --> 01:45:10,320
Speaker 1: have set up, and a whole supply chain has sprung

1848
01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:13,280
Speaker 1: up across the city to keep these people fed, working

1849
01:45:13,439 --> 01:45:16,559
Speaker 1: and protesting. I'm now going to quote a good article

1850
01:45:16,640 --> 01:45:20,280
Speaker 1: in the CBC by Judy Trend quote. The group is

1851
01:45:20,280 --> 01:45:23,240
Speaker 1: set up not only near the Parliament in Ottawa, but

1852
01:45:23,280 --> 01:45:26,360
Speaker 1: they have also built two encampment areas where they carry

1853
01:45:26,360 --> 01:45:30,040
Speaker 1: out logistical and supply work. Recent reporting has painted a

1854
01:45:30,040 --> 01:45:33,840
Speaker 1: picture that these areas are far more organized than widely thought.

1855
01:45:34,520 --> 01:45:36,680
Speaker 1: The group is also trying out new tactics, such as

1856
01:45:36,720 --> 01:45:40,160
Speaker 1: attempting to clog up traffic at the Ottawa Airport. Other

1857
01:45:40,240 --> 01:45:43,799
Speaker 1: tactics like swatting have been reported as well. Ottawa Police

1858
01:45:43,880 --> 01:45:46,639
Speaker 1: say they're aware of a concerned effort to flood our

1859
01:45:46,840 --> 01:45:50,880
Speaker 1: nine one and non emergency police reporting lines, tweeting that

1860
01:45:51,240 --> 01:45:55,160
Speaker 1: this endangers lives and is completely unacceptable. Determined to not

1861
01:45:55,240 --> 01:45:59,040
Speaker 1: be outdone by their fellow protesters in the West, after

1862
01:45:59,080 --> 01:46:02,400
Speaker 1: the second wave arrived, the members of the Ottawa Convoy

1863
01:46:02,560 --> 01:46:06,400
Speaker 1: organized away for the Convoy occupation to stay, but also

1864
01:46:06,520 --> 01:46:11,120
Speaker 1: put up a border crossing blockade of their own. Starting Sunday,

1865
01:46:11,160 --> 01:46:16,640
Speaker 1: February six, scores of truckers blocked the Ambassador Bridge connecting Windsor, Ontario,

1866
01:46:16,840 --> 01:46:20,120
Speaker 1: to Detroit, Michigan, disrupting the flow of auto parts and

1867
01:46:20,160 --> 01:46:24,160
Speaker 1: other products between the two countries. While this protest has

1868
01:46:24,200 --> 01:46:27,280
Speaker 1: been conducted more by pickup trucks than big rigs, it

1869
01:46:27,320 --> 01:46:30,400
Speaker 1: has been holding up the lanes. The bridge is the

1870
01:46:30,439 --> 01:46:34,240
Speaker 1: busiest US Canada border crossing and the key cog in

1871
01:46:34,280 --> 01:46:37,439
Speaker 1: both the US and Canadian economies, as it carries around

1872
01:46:37,439 --> 01:46:41,040
Speaker 1: twenty five percent of trade between the two countries. The

1873
01:46:41,080 --> 01:46:44,160
Speaker 1: effects of the blockade there were felt rapidly. The bridge

1874
01:46:44,200 --> 01:46:48,000
Speaker 1: regularly carries around three hundred sixty million dollars a day

1875
01:46:48,360 --> 01:46:51,800
Speaker 1: in two way cargoes, but traffic is limited by its

1876
01:46:51,920 --> 01:46:55,960
Speaker 1: nineteen nine physical footprint. There's just two lanes each way

1877
01:46:56,200 --> 01:47:00,559
Speaker 1: with no shoulders and antiquated customs boots, with the northern

1878
01:47:00,600 --> 01:47:04,960
Speaker 1: side just emptying out into the city streets. The bumper

1879
01:47:05,000 --> 01:47:08,000
Speaker 1: to bumper demonstration forced auto plants on both sides the

1880
01:47:08,040 --> 01:47:11,679
Speaker 1: border to shut down or scale back production. The halting

1881
01:47:11,680 --> 01:47:15,320
Speaker 1: of trade has bottlenecked automaker Ford's ability to get parts

1882
01:47:15,360 --> 01:47:19,400
Speaker 1: from the US to its Canadian plants in Windsor and Oaksville.

1883
01:47:20,040 --> 01:47:22,280
Speaker 1: Ford to shut down the doors of its Windsor plan

1884
01:47:22,360 --> 01:47:25,880
Speaker 1: and reduced the work schedule in Oakville. Ford set in

1885
01:47:25,880 --> 01:47:32,240
Speaker 1: a statement, the interruption on the Detroit Windsor Bridge hurts customers, autoworkers, suppliers, communities,

1886
01:47:32,240 --> 01:47:34,840
Speaker 1: and companies on both sides of the border. We hope

1887
01:47:34,840 --> 01:47:38,080
Speaker 1: the situation is resolved quickly because it could have widespread

1888
01:47:38,080 --> 01:47:42,640
Speaker 1: impact on all automakers in the US and Canada. Automaker

1889
01:47:42,760 --> 01:47:46,200
Speaker 1: Toyota said that it's three D plants in Ontario closed

1890
01:47:46,200 --> 01:47:48,840
Speaker 1: for the rest of the week because of parts shortages,

1891
01:47:49,080 --> 01:47:53,840
Speaker 1: and production has also been curtailed in Georgetown, Kentucky more

1892
01:47:53,920 --> 01:47:56,840
Speaker 1: On the U s side of things, GM, Jeep, and

1893
01:47:57,000 --> 01:47:59,960
Speaker 1: Honda all had hours cut and assembly lines shut down

1894
01:48:00,000 --> 01:48:04,040
Speaker 1: own at their factories across Michigan and Ohio. Michigan Governor

1895
01:48:04,120 --> 01:48:08,000
Speaker 1: Gretchen Whittemore urged Canadian authorities to quickly resolve the stand off,

1896
01:48:08,200 --> 01:48:11,760
Speaker 1: saying it's hitting paychecks and production lines and that is unacceptable.

1897
01:48:12,520 --> 01:48:14,960
Speaker 1: The federal Public Safety Minister has said that the Royal

1898
01:48:15,000 --> 01:48:18,120
Speaker 1: Canadian amount of police reinforcements are being sent to Windsor,

1899
01:48:18,360 --> 01:48:21,960
Speaker 1: Ottawa and to Coots, Alberta, where the other border blockade

1900
01:48:22,040 --> 01:48:27,000
Speaker 1: is happening. With political and economic pressure mounting, Windsor Mayor

1901
01:48:27,160 --> 01:48:29,880
Speaker 1: Drew Dilkins announced that the city would seek a court

1902
01:48:29,920 --> 01:48:33,920
Speaker 1: injunction to end the occupation, saying that the economic harm

1903
01:48:34,040 --> 01:48:36,960
Speaker 1: is just not sustainable and it must come to an end.

1904
01:48:37,640 --> 01:48:41,479
Speaker 1: On Thursday, February tenth, the Biden administration urged Prime Minister

1905
01:48:41,560 --> 01:48:45,080
Speaker 1: Justin Trudeau's government on Thursday to use its federal powers

1906
01:48:45,120 --> 01:48:47,320
Speaker 1: to end the truck blockade at the other side of

1907
01:48:47,320 --> 01:48:50,600
Speaker 1: the Detroit border. Hundreds of millions of dollars worth of

1908
01:48:50,640 --> 01:48:53,479
Speaker 1: products have been held back for days as fifty to

1909
01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:57,400
Speaker 1: sixty vehicles and around a hundred anti mandate protesters camp

1910
01:48:57,439 --> 01:48:59,920
Speaker 1: out on the main road that leads on and off

1911
01:49:00,000 --> 01:49:03,120
Speaker 1: the bridge. And yes, it is ironic that the same

1912
01:49:03,160 --> 01:49:06,160
Speaker 1: people who are trying to sell Canadians fake stories about

1913
01:49:06,200 --> 01:49:09,920
Speaker 1: failing supply lines and empty shelves are now causing those

1914
01:49:09,920 --> 01:49:12,880
Speaker 1: supply lines to fail and causing those shelves to go empty.

1915
01:49:13,080 --> 01:49:15,400
Speaker 1: The irony is not lost on me, but it may

1916
01:49:15,439 --> 01:49:19,440
Speaker 1: be lost on the convoy participants. Throughout running these episodes,

1917
01:49:19,479 --> 01:49:21,799
Speaker 1: I was fortunate enough to get to talk to multiple

1918
01:49:21,800 --> 01:49:24,639
Speaker 1: people who have been on the ground in downtown Ottawa.

1919
01:49:25,320 --> 01:49:28,880
Speaker 1: One such of these people's is Peter Smith, an investigative

1920
01:49:28,920 --> 01:49:32,599
Speaker 1: journalist for the Canadian Anti Hate Network. We recorded our

1921
01:49:32,600 --> 01:49:35,360
Speaker 1: conversation and I'm going to include some audio clips throughout

1922
01:49:35,360 --> 01:49:38,200
Speaker 1: the rest of the episode. We started off by discussing

1923
01:49:38,240 --> 01:49:41,040
Speaker 1: what made this protest movement pop off in this specific

1924
01:49:41,080 --> 01:49:44,559
Speaker 1: time and place. I do you think it was maybe

1925
01:49:44,600 --> 01:49:47,360
Speaker 1: capitalizing on a moment, but also a fair amount of luck.

1926
01:49:48,120 --> 01:49:51,400
Speaker 1: You know, since two thousand nine, the same organizers have

1927
01:49:51,400 --> 01:49:55,040
Speaker 1: attempted to put together other convoys, you know, generally never

1928
01:49:55,160 --> 01:49:57,600
Speaker 1: rising to the amount of attention that they had in

1929
01:49:57,640 --> 01:50:02,559
Speaker 1: two thousand nine. Um. You know, this convoy was also

1930
01:50:02,640 --> 01:50:07,840
Speaker 1: planned long before they specifically started focusing on truckers, and

1931
01:50:07,880 --> 01:50:11,640
Speaker 1: then it was it was a galvanizing issue. It resonated

1932
01:50:11,680 --> 01:50:17,000
Speaker 1: with people who are frustrated with the Trudeau government, um,

1933
01:50:17,040 --> 01:50:20,640
Speaker 1: and just they're they're handling of of health measures as

1934
01:50:20,680 --> 01:50:24,719
Speaker 1: well as just became a like a vehicle for expressing

1935
01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:27,600
Speaker 1: their general dissatisfaction with their own provinises, like most of

1936
01:50:27,640 --> 01:50:31,760
Speaker 1: our health mandates are provincial, like the Alberta government is

1937
01:50:31,800 --> 01:50:35,960
Speaker 1: handing down what's happening in Alberta. Um, so it's it's

1938
01:50:35,960 --> 01:50:40,960
Speaker 1: not just it's not just a federal issue, but coming

1939
01:50:41,000 --> 01:50:43,680
Speaker 1: down here and occupying the streets of Ottawa and that

1940
01:50:43,840 --> 01:50:49,120
Speaker 1: now we're seeing occupying most of our major cities. Um.

1941
01:50:49,160 --> 01:50:52,280
Speaker 1: You know, ones like Winnipeg gets significantly less attention, but

1942
01:50:52,320 --> 01:50:57,080
Speaker 1: are incredibly disruptive locally, um and in some cases more

1943
01:50:57,160 --> 01:50:59,320
Speaker 1: kind of inceniary than the one that we have out here,

1944
01:51:00,120 --> 01:51:03,240
Speaker 1: where you know, participants and organizers are desperately trying to

1945
01:51:03,960 --> 01:51:07,600
Speaker 1: clamp down on on any individuals who's engaging and harassment

1946
01:51:07,840 --> 01:51:11,400
Speaker 1: or uh well or is more common blaming it on

1947
01:51:11,479 --> 01:51:15,760
Speaker 1: liberal plants. Um. Yeah, it just it became this kind

1948
01:51:15,760 --> 01:51:20,280
Speaker 1: of expression of all of the frustration and very quickly

1949
01:51:20,360 --> 01:51:22,600
Speaker 1: drew attention even from people who've been dismissive of it

1950
01:51:22,680 --> 01:51:26,040
Speaker 1: very early on because of some of the organizers. Um.

1951
01:51:26,120 --> 01:51:29,320
Speaker 1: Once it really started to galvanate, galvanized attention and of

1952
01:51:29,360 --> 01:51:36,639
Speaker 1: course money, Uh, people couldn't couldn't stay away. I mean

1953
01:51:36,640 --> 01:51:40,120
Speaker 1: to the point that we even have mainstream conservative politicians

1954
01:51:40,160 --> 01:51:43,240
Speaker 1: now getting on board with it, including the man who's

1955
01:51:43,360 --> 01:51:45,640
Speaker 1: very likely to be the future leader of the Conservative

1956
01:51:45,680 --> 01:51:49,599
Speaker 1: Party here. I mean, we're in a very unique moment um,

1957
01:51:49,640 --> 01:51:51,720
Speaker 1: you know, are our far right and kind of conspiracy

1958
01:51:51,760 --> 01:51:55,400
Speaker 1: culture in Canada has also been getting better at organizing

1959
01:51:55,400 --> 01:51:58,280
Speaker 1: over the course of the pandemic. Wants to get like

1960
01:51:58,400 --> 01:52:02,040
Speaker 1: all major cities have and many small towns continue to

1961
01:52:02,080 --> 01:52:06,040
Speaker 1: have anti mandate um anti lockdown protests. We usually refer

1962
01:52:06,040 --> 01:52:09,280
Speaker 1: to them as the COVID conspiracy movement, just because of

1963
01:52:09,320 --> 01:52:15,480
Speaker 1: how and heavily heavily informed it is by conspiratorial thinking. Um.

1964
01:52:15,520 --> 01:52:17,400
Speaker 1: So it's it's like you had a large amount of

1965
01:52:17,400 --> 01:52:19,680
Speaker 1: people kind of spending the past two years and like

1966
01:52:19,760 --> 01:52:23,519
Speaker 1: a on the ground boot camp of how to organize

1967
01:52:23,520 --> 01:52:25,760
Speaker 1: within these cities and how to get people's attention. And

1968
01:52:25,800 --> 01:52:27,880
Speaker 1: of course, like like a lot of the far right here,

1969
01:52:27,920 --> 01:52:32,240
Speaker 1: it fragmented. There was a lot of infighting, um and

1970
01:52:32,280 --> 01:52:34,760
Speaker 1: then you know, once there became a central point that

1971
01:52:34,880 --> 01:52:37,559
Speaker 1: was was galvanizing a lot of attention, it started receiving

1972
01:52:37,560 --> 01:52:41,240
Speaker 1: international attention. You know, there's been some questions about the

1973
01:52:41,240 --> 01:52:44,200
Speaker 1: source of some of the money, but certainly the initial

1974
01:52:44,240 --> 01:52:49,200
Speaker 1: totals seemed to be organically Canadian. Yeah. Um, it just

1975
01:52:49,600 --> 01:52:52,880
Speaker 1: became too big to fall apart essentially, at least at

1976
01:52:52,920 --> 01:52:56,360
Speaker 1: this point. Um. There has been some spats of infighting,

1977
01:52:56,439 --> 01:53:00,920
Speaker 1: but mostly you know, the most polarized and figures are

1978
01:53:01,520 --> 01:53:03,639
Speaker 1: either just keeping their head down or in some cases

1979
01:53:03,680 --> 01:53:06,479
Speaker 1: even choosing to stay away from the main events so

1980
01:53:06,560 --> 01:53:10,320
Speaker 1: as not to be a distraction. Um. There's a lot.

1981
01:53:10,560 --> 01:53:12,280
Speaker 1: One of the lines I see a lot is like,

1982
01:53:12,479 --> 01:53:16,160
Speaker 1: this is the moment, this is for all the marvels. Um.

1983
01:53:16,200 --> 01:53:19,280
Speaker 1: So there's a huge amount of importance being placed on that.

1984
01:53:20,479 --> 01:53:24,840
Speaker 1: What actually happens, like whether they're able to paint what

1985
01:53:24,880 --> 01:53:28,559
Speaker 1: we've the like the actual rolling back of banddates that

1986
01:53:28,640 --> 01:53:32,000
Speaker 1: we were already starting to see before the convoy began,

1987
01:53:32,680 --> 01:53:36,240
Speaker 1: um as some type of victory for them, um, or

1988
01:53:36,280 --> 01:53:39,120
Speaker 1: if this leads to further disillusionment. You know, we don't

1989
01:53:39,120 --> 01:53:42,040
Speaker 1: really know at this point, but I think this moment

1990
01:53:42,080 --> 01:53:45,680
Speaker 1: is going to be a propaganda tool, um, and kind

1991
01:53:45,680 --> 01:53:49,800
Speaker 1: of a a point of I think it's gonna be

1992
01:53:49,800 --> 01:53:53,640
Speaker 1: a propaganda tool and like a point of motivation for

1993
01:53:53,680 --> 01:53:57,040
Speaker 1: a long time from your like both on the ground

1994
01:53:57,080 --> 01:54:00,360
Speaker 1: stuff and just from monitoring stuff online. What do you

1995
01:54:00,400 --> 01:54:05,280
Speaker 1: think like the actual actionable intention was once they arrived

1996
01:54:05,280 --> 01:54:07,840
Speaker 1: in Ottawa, Like, do you think they had a clear

1997
01:54:07,880 --> 01:54:09,680
Speaker 1: plan of what to do or was it more like

1998
01:54:10,560 --> 01:54:16,280
Speaker 1: let's go here and then we'll figure things out. Well,

1999
01:54:16,320 --> 01:54:19,120
Speaker 1: initially there there was a manum. Initially there was a

2000
01:54:19,120 --> 01:54:22,599
Speaker 1: memorandum of understanding which laid out kind of the points

2001
01:54:22,640 --> 01:54:26,080
Speaker 1: of what the inditial organizers were hoping to accomplish, something

2002
01:54:26,120 --> 01:54:29,400
Speaker 1: they call the Operation bay or hug Um, which includes

2003
01:54:29,439 --> 01:54:31,920
Speaker 1: having the Governor General and our Senate, both of whom

2004
01:54:31,960 --> 01:54:37,920
Speaker 1: are unelected, uh dissolved parliament and reform the government immediately

2005
01:54:37,960 --> 01:54:42,880
Speaker 1: after we had a federal election. Um. Since then, the

2006
01:54:42,920 --> 01:54:48,680
Speaker 1: message has evolved like they're trying to stay very very

2007
01:54:48,720 --> 01:54:52,680
Speaker 1: like on script with this just being about freedom, um,

2008
01:54:52,680 --> 01:54:56,480
Speaker 1: this just being about mandates. You know, initially there was

2009
01:54:56,520 --> 01:54:58,720
Speaker 1: a lot of attempts to even get people to stop

2010
01:54:58,760 --> 01:55:02,000
Speaker 1: mentioning the vaccine. Of those seems to kind of fallen

2011
01:55:02,040 --> 01:55:04,640
Speaker 1: by the wayside, especially when you start looking at the speakers.

2012
01:55:06,880 --> 01:55:09,600
Speaker 1: It is interesting to kind of wonder what the actual

2013
01:55:09,640 --> 01:55:14,280
Speaker 1: goal is there. They've started meeting with public officials, you know,

2014
01:55:14,320 --> 01:55:20,680
Speaker 1: there is some type of negotiation going on. Um. Obstensively,

2015
01:55:20,720 --> 01:55:24,000
Speaker 1: the goal is just to have these border restrictions lifted

2016
01:55:24,720 --> 01:55:27,960
Speaker 1: on people on truckers who are unvaccinated returning from the US.

2017
01:55:29,040 --> 01:55:30,600
Speaker 1: You know, the obvious thing is the point out that

2018
01:55:30,640 --> 01:55:32,880
Speaker 1: the US still has a very similar policy in reverse

2019
01:55:32,960 --> 01:55:36,440
Speaker 1: again here would have no impact um on their ability

2020
01:55:36,480 --> 01:55:40,960
Speaker 1: to to avoid this quarantine. But um, it seems like

2021
01:55:40,960 --> 01:55:44,640
Speaker 1: the goals are fairly murky, and that's almost deliberate because

2022
01:55:44,720 --> 01:55:49,920
Speaker 1: then they can declare victory kind of when it suits them.

2023
01:55:50,080 --> 01:55:54,160
Speaker 1: Ambiguity around protest goals, demands, and purpose itself can be

2024
01:55:54,240 --> 01:55:58,000
Speaker 1: a useful tactic. The Crime Think zine slash article titled

2025
01:55:58,160 --> 01:56:01,320
Speaker 1: why we Don't make Demands makes such a case. I

2026
01:56:01,360 --> 01:56:03,760
Speaker 1: don't have time to summarize it here, but I recommend

2027
01:56:03,760 --> 01:56:06,040
Speaker 1: you give the article a look if you're interested in

2028
01:56:06,080 --> 01:56:09,240
Speaker 1: this train of thought as an intentional tactic. But on

2029
01:56:09,280 --> 01:56:12,200
Speaker 1: the flip side, you know, vague and direction list protest

2030
01:56:12,320 --> 01:56:15,320
Speaker 1: without much of a focus on a specific goal can

2031
01:56:15,400 --> 01:56:18,440
Speaker 1: also cause protests to peter out without having any lasting

2032
01:56:18,480 --> 01:56:22,120
Speaker 1: impact on the world. A discussion worth having is how

2033
01:56:22,200 --> 01:56:25,760
Speaker 1: the individual people that make up the convay participants have

2034
01:56:25,880 --> 01:56:29,200
Speaker 1: been convinced to take part in an occupation protest, and

2035
01:56:29,200 --> 01:56:32,920
Speaker 1: how what is considered valid political action has broadened in

2036
01:56:32,960 --> 01:56:36,040
Speaker 1: their own heads if they're the ones doing the action,

2037
01:56:36,080 --> 01:56:39,200
Speaker 1: of course, because from their point of view, since they

2038
01:56:39,200 --> 01:56:42,480
Speaker 1: are doing it, the cause must be valid and therefore

2039
01:56:42,680 --> 01:56:48,240
Speaker 1: the action is justified. In we have the wetsuin rail blockades,

2040
01:56:49,080 --> 01:56:51,680
Speaker 1: um that was put on by various members of our

2041
01:56:51,680 --> 01:56:55,200
Speaker 1: first nations, and then people who supported them, you know,

2042
01:56:55,280 --> 01:57:00,720
Speaker 1: the same politicians they're meeting, um when the truckers embracing them, uh,

2043
01:57:00,920 --> 01:57:05,520
Speaker 1: saying that our current prime ministers demonizing them um by

2044
01:57:05,560 --> 01:57:09,000
Speaker 1: kind of casting them as under desirables. We're we're you know,

2045
01:57:09,000 --> 01:57:12,919
Speaker 1: we're actively calling people sitting on train tracks as terrorists

2046
01:57:12,960 --> 01:57:17,400
Speaker 1: who are disrupting our economy. Um. Obviously, in the context

2047
01:57:17,440 --> 01:57:20,240
Speaker 1: of the pandemic pandemic that's very different because there has

2048
01:57:20,280 --> 01:57:24,720
Speaker 1: been kind of mass disruption too to our economy. But

2049
01:57:25,400 --> 01:57:28,040
Speaker 1: this kind of picking and choosing, of of suiting the

2050
01:57:28,120 --> 01:57:31,760
Speaker 1: narrative to court far eight voters seems to be popular.

2051
01:57:32,280 --> 01:57:36,040
Speaker 1: You know how Conservatives typically aren't seen as the protesting type.

2052
01:57:36,160 --> 01:57:38,680
Speaker 1: Right Conservatives are supposed to be the type of people

2053
01:57:38,720 --> 01:57:41,200
Speaker 1: who drive by the protest and yell, get a job,

2054
01:57:41,760 --> 01:57:44,400
Speaker 1: They're not the ones who are out in the streets picketing.

2055
01:57:44,760 --> 01:57:48,080
Speaker 1: But first of all, that's not really true. Historically, in

2056
01:57:48,120 --> 01:57:51,720
Speaker 1: just the past one years, there's always been conservative protests

2057
01:57:51,760 --> 01:57:56,040
Speaker 1: for you know, regressive and reactionary goals. Also, conservatives have

2058
01:57:56,200 --> 01:57:59,440
Speaker 1: been much better at organizing off the street for their

2059
01:57:59,480 --> 01:58:05,000
Speaker 1: political policies, specifically around like abortion or Christian dominionism, anti

2060
01:58:05,040 --> 01:58:09,040
Speaker 1: queer legislation, or recent stuff around anti CRT and just

2061
01:58:09,440 --> 01:58:15,040
Speaker 1: the mainstream racism denial that's been propagated through media. But

2062
01:58:15,600 --> 01:58:19,560
Speaker 1: even if there is historical precedent for conservative protest, bridging

2063
01:58:19,560 --> 01:58:22,360
Speaker 1: the gap of what is seen as valid political action

2064
01:58:22,480 --> 01:58:25,600
Speaker 1: in the minds of these convoy attendees did still take

2065
01:58:25,640 --> 01:58:28,800
Speaker 1: place over just the past few years, just the past

2066
01:58:28,840 --> 01:58:33,000
Speaker 1: two years, specifically, there's been so much conservative protests around COVID.

2067
01:58:33,280 --> 01:58:35,680
Speaker 1: A whole bunch of the people at the Ottawa protest

2068
01:58:35,920 --> 01:58:39,000
Speaker 1: probably five years ago would have never seen themselves going

2069
01:58:39,040 --> 01:58:42,280
Speaker 1: to protest in the Canadian capital, Right Like, if you

2070
01:58:42,360 --> 01:58:45,760
Speaker 1: told them a few years ago that you're gonna drive

2071
01:58:45,880 --> 01:58:48,720
Speaker 1: all these kilometers to the Parliament to camp out in

2072
01:58:48,760 --> 01:58:51,600
Speaker 1: the cold for weeks to protest against the government and

2073
01:58:51,640 --> 01:58:55,080
Speaker 1: its rules for helping not spread the deadliest pandemic in

2074
01:58:55,080 --> 01:58:58,120
Speaker 1: a century. They would have probably laughed out of the room.

2075
01:58:58,200 --> 01:59:02,080
Speaker 1: So what is the logical agression of conservative people who generally,

2076
01:59:02,120 --> 01:59:04,640
Speaker 1: you know, look down on any type of protest, especially

2077
01:59:04,680 --> 01:59:08,000
Speaker 1: occupy style protests to the point where they are driving

2078
01:59:08,000 --> 01:59:10,280
Speaker 1: all the way to the capital to camp outside the building,

2079
01:59:10,520 --> 01:59:13,400
Speaker 1: to Hong Korn's day and night. A lot of that

2080
01:59:13,480 --> 01:59:16,800
Speaker 1: political change the past few years correlates to the pandemic,

2081
01:59:16,920 --> 01:59:20,040
Speaker 1: to the social isolation and the great opportunity for the

2082
01:59:20,120 --> 01:59:24,200
Speaker 1: fast spread of conspiratorial politics that it offered. Over the

2083
01:59:24,200 --> 01:59:26,640
Speaker 1: course of the pandemic, there's been this huge blending of

2084
01:59:26,720 --> 01:59:31,000
Speaker 1: rhetoric online and especially in Canada, this kind of villainization

2085
01:59:31,080 --> 01:59:35,240
Speaker 1: of the other side. Increasingly less and less criticism against

2086
01:59:35,240 --> 01:59:38,880
Speaker 1: the current government is less based on its policy and

2087
01:59:38,920 --> 01:59:41,959
Speaker 1: more based on its figurehead and the image of Trudeau

2088
01:59:42,120 --> 01:59:46,640
Speaker 1: as a globalist politics as opposition to whatever Trudeaux and

2089
01:59:46,640 --> 01:59:49,400
Speaker 1: the Liberals are doing. The result of that is just

2090
01:59:49,440 --> 01:59:52,160
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of escalation, because you have to keep

2091
01:59:52,200 --> 01:59:56,120
Speaker 1: always being antagonistic and always being contrarian no matter what

2092
01:59:56,200 --> 01:59:59,760
Speaker 1: the opposition actually does. The thing is a lot of

2093
01:59:59,760 --> 02:00:02,480
Speaker 1: the people who used to just be kind of more

2094
02:00:02,520 --> 02:00:07,120
Speaker 1: general conservatives. As they get radicalized online and get caught

2095
02:00:07,200 --> 02:00:10,080
Speaker 1: up with farther right and extremest elements, most of them

2096
02:00:10,120 --> 02:00:13,400
Speaker 1: still view themselves as like the norm. They don't think

2097
02:00:13,440 --> 02:00:16,360
Speaker 1: they've politically changed the past five years, but if you

2098
02:00:16,400 --> 02:00:19,800
Speaker 1: look at their rhetoric and actions, they definitely have kind

2099
02:00:19,840 --> 02:00:23,120
Speaker 1: of substantially, But they still view themselves the same way

2100
02:00:23,160 --> 02:00:25,919
Speaker 1: they would when they were voting. Forced to even harper,

2101
02:00:26,760 --> 02:00:30,760
Speaker 1: Unless you're a self described extremist, you typically view everything

2102
02:00:30,800 --> 02:00:34,440
Speaker 1: that you do and say as normal and reasonable. Like you,

2103
02:00:34,440 --> 02:00:37,440
Speaker 1: you are the actual normal. Everyone else is shifted either

2104
02:00:37,520 --> 02:00:41,720
Speaker 1: way relative to you. During our talk, I asked investigative

2105
02:00:41,760 --> 02:00:45,640
Speaker 1: journalist Peter Smith on his opinions about what sorts of

2106
02:00:45,680 --> 02:00:49,720
Speaker 1: political and social factors have allowed the occupation and blockades

2107
02:00:50,040 --> 02:00:54,600
Speaker 1: to have enough numbers to last and continue on so long. Um.

2108
02:00:54,720 --> 02:00:57,200
Speaker 1: Kind of having spent a lot of time on the

2109
02:00:57,200 --> 02:00:59,720
Speaker 1: ground at the Ottawa convoy just talking to people as

2110
02:00:59,760 --> 02:01:03,720
Speaker 1: like as a normal guy without my press hat on. Um,

2111
02:01:03,760 --> 02:01:06,520
Speaker 1: it does seem like when there's a lot of owner

2112
02:01:06,600 --> 02:01:10,840
Speaker 1: operators there, like when it comes to the trucks themselves. Um,

2113
02:01:10,880 --> 02:01:15,560
Speaker 1: these people are the business owners um or like very close,

2114
02:01:15,640 --> 02:01:19,200
Speaker 1: like they're kind of independent contractors exactly. Um. I think

2115
02:01:19,200 --> 02:01:21,520
Speaker 1: there was a report that came out showing a survey

2116
02:01:21,560 --> 02:01:24,280
Speaker 1: that done that like roughly half of the people there

2117
02:01:25,040 --> 02:01:30,640
Speaker 1: were unemployed. UM. So like the financial promise of all

2118
02:01:30,680 --> 02:01:32,520
Speaker 1: the money raised may have been a big draw. Like

2119
02:01:32,600 --> 02:01:35,200
Speaker 1: not to say that these people don't legitimately believe the

2120
02:01:35,240 --> 02:01:40,680
Speaker 1: reasons absolutely, um, but it created an incentive. UM. But

2121
02:01:40,720 --> 02:01:44,080
Speaker 1: then having roughly half of them, you know, still having jobs,

2122
02:01:44,680 --> 02:01:46,720
Speaker 1: you know, it comes down to a little bit more

2123
02:01:46,760 --> 02:01:51,560
Speaker 1: than just money, Like it's about actual belief, actual ideology. UM.

2124
02:01:51,600 --> 02:01:53,720
Speaker 1: But it is interesting for a large amount of people

2125
02:01:53,760 --> 02:01:58,640
Speaker 1: who are extremely worried about supply lines about people having

2126
02:01:58,720 --> 02:02:02,320
Speaker 1: enough food initially um to kind of creating this self

2127
02:02:02,320 --> 02:02:06,280
Speaker 1: fulfilling prophecy where where that seems to be the main

2128
02:02:06,360 --> 02:02:08,680
Speaker 1: tactic is just to grind as much to a halt

2129
02:02:08,720 --> 02:02:12,640
Speaker 1: as they can, using as much as many people as

2130
02:02:12,680 --> 02:02:15,320
Speaker 1: they can muster. And then just the kind of general

2131
02:02:16,240 --> 02:02:19,960
Speaker 1: hands off approach that law enforcement is taking with them,

2132
02:02:20,160 --> 02:02:23,920
Speaker 1: um has allowed them to organize better, to evolve their

2133
02:02:23,960 --> 02:02:27,200
Speaker 1: tactics to be more effective. UM. Like I certainly don't

2134
02:02:27,200 --> 02:02:30,400
Speaker 1: think a policing solution is is what's going to solve this?

2135
02:02:30,520 --> 02:02:33,200
Speaker 1: And you know, there's a lot of calls for that,

2136
02:02:33,320 --> 02:02:34,720
Speaker 1: which is I think just going to result in a

2137
02:02:34,720 --> 02:02:39,680
Speaker 1: lot of people getting hurt in the street. Um. But

2138
02:02:39,680 --> 02:02:42,920
Speaker 1: but yeah, like it is interesting that how it kind

2139
02:02:42,960 --> 02:02:46,360
Speaker 1: of it came from the West mostly and then landed

2140
02:02:46,400 --> 02:02:49,160
Speaker 1: in Ottawa and then kind of spread out from there

2141
02:02:49,240 --> 02:02:53,880
Speaker 1: once people realized it was effective, once people realized, you know,

2142
02:02:53,960 --> 02:02:57,000
Speaker 1: there was there was safety in these numbers. Um, it's

2143
02:02:57,520 --> 02:03:02,200
Speaker 1: it's drawn, it's drawn so many people to it. It's

2144
02:03:02,320 --> 02:03:05,600
Speaker 1: it's honestly shock. It's it has been shocking, truly how

2145
02:03:05,680 --> 02:03:08,440
Speaker 1: quickly it is spread and how effective it has been.

2146
02:03:09,080 --> 02:03:11,360
Speaker 1: It's not January six in the sense that like people

2147
02:03:11,360 --> 02:03:14,840
Speaker 1: are running around Parliament and like trying to find you know,

2148
02:03:14,880 --> 02:03:17,280
Speaker 1: every liberal politician, but in the sense that it's a

2149
02:03:17,360 --> 02:03:21,600
Speaker 1: large amount of people motivated by conspiracy. Yeah, and that's

2150
02:03:21,640 --> 02:03:24,680
Speaker 1: where I view the parallel and because they and honestly,

2151
02:03:24,880 --> 02:03:28,640
Speaker 1: the the actual sincerity of it poses more of a

2152
02:03:28,640 --> 02:03:33,000
Speaker 1: political threat than the animosity of January six. Um, in

2153
02:03:33,080 --> 02:03:35,840
Speaker 1: terms of like long term, like actual social change and

2154
02:03:35,920 --> 02:03:39,440
Speaker 1: using this type of like occupation as a tactic, the

2155
02:03:39,480 --> 02:03:41,760
Speaker 1: more sincere you are the more of an actual political

2156
02:03:41,760 --> 02:03:43,760
Speaker 1: threat you can be in the long term, because yeah,

2157
02:03:43,920 --> 02:03:45,960
Speaker 1: if they start, if they storm Parliament, then I'll get

2158
02:03:46,000 --> 02:03:47,760
Speaker 1: shut down in a day and then they will be

2159
02:03:47,760 --> 02:03:50,600
Speaker 1: demonized and then then the problem is over, um at

2160
02:03:50,640 --> 02:03:53,080
Speaker 1: least at least in the short term. Right. Um. But

2161
02:03:53,200 --> 02:03:56,560
Speaker 1: if you actually like do this sincerely and actually get

2162
02:03:56,560 --> 02:04:01,120
Speaker 1: people to buckle under pressure, then that's like actual successful politics.

2163
02:04:01,240 --> 02:04:05,440
Speaker 1: Like that is you're you're actually doing politics objectively. Well, um,

2164
02:04:05,480 --> 02:04:09,240
Speaker 1: and that's more interesting to point out. The problem isn't protesting,

2165
02:04:09,680 --> 02:04:13,280
Speaker 1: Like protesting as a concept isn't the issue. The problem

2166
02:04:13,360 --> 02:04:16,920
Speaker 1: isn't even blockade. No, the problem is not blockades either. Yeah,

2167
02:04:17,000 --> 02:04:20,800
Speaker 1: all these things are just tactics, and tactics are value neutral. Um.

2168
02:04:20,920 --> 02:04:23,480
Speaker 1: Usually you know, it's until you can take a genocide

2169
02:04:23,480 --> 02:04:26,720
Speaker 1: when it's usually that's a kind of kind of kind

2170
02:04:26,760 --> 02:04:30,960
Speaker 1: of a downer generally. Um. But in generally I kind

2171
02:04:30,960 --> 02:04:33,960
Speaker 1: of you put protest tactics as more value neutral. It's

2172
02:04:33,960 --> 02:04:38,560
Speaker 1: about kind of what the underlying cultural motivation is and

2173
02:04:38,720 --> 02:04:42,680
Speaker 1: what they want the results to be. And even still,

2174
02:04:42,720 --> 02:04:44,520
Speaker 1: you know, some of the some of the points they

2175
02:04:44,600 --> 02:04:48,720
Speaker 1: have are not completely invalid um. But once it gets

2176
02:04:48,760 --> 02:04:51,440
Speaker 1: caught up in a cultural war kind of mindset. It's

2177
02:04:51,480 --> 02:04:53,600
Speaker 1: like you have to oppose it just because they're on

2178
02:04:53,600 --> 02:04:56,240
Speaker 1: the other side. Um So I kind of want to

2179
02:04:56,240 --> 02:04:59,960
Speaker 1: talk about like the reasons why they are actually kind

2180
02:05:00,080 --> 02:05:02,480
Speaker 1: enough bad like like for like on like a very

2181
02:05:02,520 --> 02:05:06,120
Speaker 1: sincere way, but then also kind of point out some

2182
02:05:06,160 --> 02:05:07,960
Speaker 1: things that are like yeah, maybe the scene, these are

2183
02:05:07,960 --> 02:05:10,760
Speaker 1: things we should consider and it shouldn't take this type

2184
02:05:10,760 --> 02:05:13,520
Speaker 1: of occupation to have us reconsider some of these rules

2185
02:05:13,520 --> 02:05:18,720
Speaker 1: and regulations. Yeah, like completely, Like I think there's no

2186
02:05:18,840 --> 02:05:23,320
Speaker 1: issue with having being uncomfortable with mandates, um like, even

2187
02:05:23,400 --> 02:05:25,920
Speaker 1: if you feel they're necessary, like being uncomfortable with the

2188
02:05:25,960 --> 02:05:31,640
Speaker 1: amount of state power that is being accumulated. Um. You know,

2189
02:05:31,880 --> 02:05:35,240
Speaker 1: in Canada, you know there have been sweeping changes to

2190
02:05:35,280 --> 02:05:37,000
Speaker 1: the way that we live our lives. Like I know

2191
02:05:37,080 --> 02:05:40,920
Speaker 1: that that's been universal. Um but there there is not

2192
02:05:41,000 --> 02:05:44,960
Speaker 1: a province that hasn't really suffered, like hasn't really impacted

2193
02:05:45,080 --> 02:05:49,080
Speaker 1: people's lives dealing with COVID um. And you know, this

2194
02:05:49,160 --> 02:05:51,520
Speaker 1: is this is one of the biggest issues when trying

2195
02:05:51,520 --> 02:05:57,840
Speaker 1: to point out disparate responses in policing. Um. Well, it's like, oh,

2196
02:05:57,880 --> 02:06:01,200
Speaker 1: it's like so we should treat the convoy participants like

2197
02:06:01,720 --> 02:06:04,560
Speaker 1: they treated everybody else, and it's it's like no, like like,

2198
02:06:06,760 --> 02:06:09,880
Speaker 1: you know, the the police chief of Ottawa got a

2199
02:06:09,920 --> 02:06:12,120
Speaker 1: lot of ship for saying he doesn't think there's a

2200
02:06:12,160 --> 02:06:14,960
Speaker 1: policing solution, and it's like, I do agree with the

2201
02:06:14,960 --> 02:06:18,440
Speaker 1: criticism of him, because he has attempted to kick responsibility

2202
02:06:18,480 --> 02:06:22,720
Speaker 1: to just about every other level of government available. Um,

2203
02:06:22,840 --> 02:06:26,120
Speaker 1: but dragging people out, like towing their vehicles and taking

2204
02:06:26,160 --> 02:06:28,680
Speaker 1: away their livelihood and dragging a lot of people out

2205
02:06:28,720 --> 02:06:32,160
Speaker 1: into the street and then into jail is not gonna

2206
02:06:32,440 --> 02:06:36,400
Speaker 1: resolve these issues now, and if anything, it could could

2207
02:06:36,400 --> 02:06:39,800
Speaker 1: bring more support. Like again, there was another report today

2208
02:06:39,840 --> 02:06:44,720
Speaker 1: that I think it's of people who have camped out

2209
02:06:44,840 --> 02:06:48,720
Speaker 1: have children with them, Like, you know, this is gonna

2210
02:06:48,720 --> 02:06:51,840
Speaker 1: be an incredibly traumatic experience. It's gonna help radicalize more people,

2211
02:06:51,880 --> 02:06:54,360
Speaker 1: and it's gonna lend credence to their cause if they

2212
02:06:54,400 --> 02:06:57,880
Speaker 1: just go in and bust heads. And it's like if

2213
02:06:57,920 --> 02:07:01,120
Speaker 1: the main focus of this convoy had been ento where

2214
02:07:01,120 --> 02:07:03,680
Speaker 1: we have an incredibly aggressive police force when it comes

2215
02:07:03,720 --> 02:07:07,760
Speaker 1: to like homeless encampments for instance, Um, you know, I

2216
02:07:07,800 --> 02:07:14,080
Speaker 1: think the result could have been very different. Yeah, and

2217
02:07:14,120 --> 02:07:17,600
Speaker 1: then because a lot of stuff around the question of

2218
02:07:17,640 --> 02:07:19,920
Speaker 1: governments and stuff. Yeah, it's it's the type of things

2219
02:07:19,960 --> 02:07:24,440
Speaker 1: I can agree with with like right wing libertarians, is, yeah,

2220
02:07:24,520 --> 02:07:27,760
Speaker 1: you do have a lot of points I can simplize

2221
02:07:27,760 --> 02:07:31,680
Speaker 1: with around the state and around control, but the way

2222
02:07:31,720 --> 02:07:35,040
Speaker 1: you address them don't actually address the underlying power structures

2223
02:07:35,040 --> 02:07:39,040
Speaker 1: which give the state legitimacy in the first place. Yeah. Absolutely,

2224
02:07:39,920 --> 02:07:42,240
Speaker 1: And the world that you kind of want in the

2225
02:07:42,360 --> 02:07:45,120
Speaker 1: end is still a world full of hierarchies, just hierarchies

2226
02:07:45,160 --> 02:07:49,120
Speaker 1: that make your life easier and skew and your favor

2227
02:07:49,280 --> 02:07:53,040
Speaker 1: just like asking for two unelected bodies to reoplate replace

2228
02:07:53,160 --> 02:07:57,520
Speaker 1: your democratically elected government. It's like, yeah, we had ten

2229
02:07:57,600 --> 02:08:01,960
Speaker 1: years of Stephen Harper, Like, um, people were unhappy and

2230
02:08:02,040 --> 02:08:04,840
Speaker 1: extremely critical of that government from the center and from

2231
02:08:04,840 --> 02:08:07,920
Speaker 1: the left, But you know, there wasn't this kind of

2232
02:08:08,080 --> 02:08:11,560
Speaker 1: broad support for the idea that that government was illegitimate,

2233
02:08:12,200 --> 02:08:15,000
Speaker 1: which is I think what we see mostly today, which

2234
02:08:15,040 --> 02:08:18,560
Speaker 1: is the most disturbing and kind of anti democratic part

2235
02:08:18,560 --> 02:08:20,800
Speaker 1: of the whole pot. Yeah, and that's the kind of

2236
02:08:20,800 --> 02:08:22,240
Speaker 1: on the last thing I want to talk about is like,

2237
02:08:22,320 --> 02:08:25,800
Speaker 1: what do you see like eventually people will go home

2238
02:08:26,120 --> 02:08:30,560
Speaker 1: either out of exhaustion, it'll maybe fizzle away, like like

2239
02:08:30,600 --> 02:08:34,640
Speaker 1: the protests in Portland did. Maybe they'll eventually police will

2240
02:08:34,680 --> 02:08:37,480
Speaker 1: kind of clear out small sections of like wh who knows,

2241
02:08:37,480 --> 02:08:42,120
Speaker 1: But like, this is not going knock one here, but

2242
02:08:42,200 --> 02:08:44,840
Speaker 1: this this isn't gonna last like a year, right, It's not.

2243
02:08:44,880 --> 02:08:47,240
Speaker 1: It's not gonna like that. I don't think they're gonna

2244
02:08:47,280 --> 02:08:49,200
Speaker 1: have thousands of people came out in front of the

2245
02:08:49,240 --> 02:08:53,320
Speaker 1: government forever. Um So what but what are the actual

2246
02:08:53,400 --> 02:08:56,400
Speaker 1: lumb term political ramifications of this, because we already saw

2247
02:08:56,440 --> 02:08:59,360
Speaker 1: the leader of the Conservative Party step down. Um, So

2248
02:08:59,360 --> 02:09:01,600
Speaker 1: like I want to talk but like specifically with the

2249
02:09:01,640 --> 02:09:04,360
Speaker 1: guy who's probably more most likely to take his place.

2250
02:09:04,640 --> 02:09:07,160
Speaker 1: How this just does kind of play into the more

2251
02:09:07,200 --> 02:09:10,000
Speaker 1: negative aspects of the convoy, is like how they're going

2252
02:09:10,040 --> 02:09:12,600
Speaker 1: to use this as a political symbol and a political

2253
02:09:12,640 --> 02:09:16,720
Speaker 1: tool to push for policies and forms the government and

2254
02:09:16,800 --> 02:09:20,000
Speaker 1: actions that will end up hurting a lot of of

2255
02:09:20,440 --> 02:09:23,320
Speaker 1: and will uphorting a lot of people. Um in terms

2256
02:09:23,400 --> 02:09:24,880
Speaker 1: of you know, how how it's going to be used

2257
02:09:24,880 --> 02:09:29,480
Speaker 1: in propaganda and rhetoric. Yeah, well, certainly if we have um,

2258
02:09:29,600 --> 02:09:34,720
Speaker 1: you know, strong legal ramifications put in place that make

2259
02:09:34,760 --> 02:09:38,760
Speaker 1: it easier for provinces, the federal government whatever to crackdown

2260
02:09:38,880 --> 02:09:43,280
Speaker 1: on on protests in general, which I think is something

2261
02:09:43,320 --> 02:09:46,880
Speaker 1: that might be very attractive to our card and government. Um.

2262
02:09:47,000 --> 02:09:50,240
Speaker 1: You know that's going to have obviously very far reaching effects.

2263
02:09:50,280 --> 02:09:53,360
Speaker 1: You know. One of our opposition parties, um, which is

2264
02:09:54,000 --> 02:09:56,800
Speaker 1: you know, generally further to the left than than the Liberals,

2265
02:09:56,840 --> 02:09:59,960
Speaker 1: the n d P UM, their leader was proposing ways

2266
02:10:00,080 --> 02:10:03,480
Speaker 1: to stop foreign funding from coming in to supplied to

2267
02:10:03,520 --> 02:10:07,760
Speaker 1: the protests. Um. You know, once again, we we had

2268
02:10:07,800 --> 02:10:11,360
Speaker 1: protests a couple of years ago by indigenous people and

2269
02:10:11,360 --> 02:10:16,840
Speaker 1: people who support indigenous movements. Um. You know that that

2270
02:10:17,000 --> 02:10:19,640
Speaker 1: raised money using the same platforms and the same methods.

2271
02:10:21,000 --> 02:10:22,720
Speaker 1: You know. So I worry about like one of the

2272
02:10:22,800 --> 02:10:27,360
Speaker 1: legal ramifications like to just this this idea, like if

2273
02:10:27,400 --> 02:10:29,800
Speaker 1: the government does crack down very hard, this idea of

2274
02:10:29,880 --> 02:10:32,480
Speaker 1: real grievance and alienation that the West has already been

2275
02:10:32,480 --> 02:10:35,920
Speaker 1: struggling with. Like we've had a real renewed separatist movement,

2276
02:10:36,440 --> 02:10:39,520
Speaker 1: not from Quebec um where it's generally been the most successful,

2277
02:10:39,560 --> 02:10:44,440
Speaker 1: but from the Western provinces, you know, not not really

2278
02:10:44,440 --> 02:10:48,560
Speaker 1: getting close to obtaining any real political power, but you know,

2279
02:10:48,720 --> 02:10:52,440
Speaker 1: kind of steadily gaining support, pulling a showing that, Yeah,

2280
02:10:53,080 --> 02:10:56,200
Speaker 1: there is a real feeling of Western alienation, that they

2281
02:10:56,240 --> 02:10:58,480
Speaker 1: don't feel represented, and you know a lot of the

2282
02:10:58,480 --> 02:11:05,280
Speaker 1: ways our government are set up actually makes that true. Um. Yeah. Ultimately,

2283
02:11:05,280 --> 02:11:08,920
Speaker 1: as people I think become more and more disenfranchised, Um,

2284
02:11:09,640 --> 02:11:15,800
Speaker 1: when government action begins to kind of justify imagined ideas

2285
02:11:15,800 --> 02:11:19,720
Speaker 1: of oppression, um, you're gonna have a real hardening. And

2286
02:11:19,800 --> 02:11:23,240
Speaker 1: since the government in power is a progressive one is

2287
02:11:24,080 --> 02:11:27,040
Speaker 1: or at least one that espouses you know, tries tries

2288
02:11:27,080 --> 02:11:30,400
Speaker 1: to reach for progressive values, you know, there's a good

2289
02:11:30,480 --> 02:11:32,760
Speaker 1: chance that those issues are gonna get caught up with

2290
02:11:33,480 --> 02:11:37,280
Speaker 1: what is just like a quote unquote leftist agenda, Whereas

2291
02:11:37,360 --> 02:11:40,840
Speaker 1: up until probably a decade ago, those things were very

2292
02:11:40,920 --> 02:11:44,320
Speaker 1: much seen as kind of inherent Canadian values that were

2293
02:11:44,360 --> 02:11:49,640
Speaker 1: embraced by both sides. Um. The current candidate for leadership,

2294
02:11:49,640 --> 02:11:52,640
Speaker 1: he hasn't been he hasn't won the seat in the

2295
02:11:52,640 --> 02:11:55,800
Speaker 1: the Conservative Party yet, but Pierre Pouliver has kind of

2296
02:11:55,840 --> 02:12:01,400
Speaker 1: always flirted to some degree with far right talking points

2297
02:12:01,400 --> 02:12:04,400
Speaker 1: like I don't I I specialize in hey groups, I

2298
02:12:04,400 --> 02:12:08,320
Speaker 1: don't want to make too many pronouncements about mainstream conservatism. Um.

2299
02:12:08,400 --> 02:12:11,080
Speaker 1: But even by kind of members of the very far

2300
02:12:11,200 --> 02:12:14,120
Speaker 1: right who often have turned against the Conservative Party over

2301
02:12:14,120 --> 02:12:16,880
Speaker 1: the course of the pandemic. He's often referred to as

2302
02:12:16,880 --> 02:12:21,720
Speaker 1: the adult in the room. Um. And while still a politician,

2303
02:12:22,520 --> 02:12:25,480
Speaker 1: kind of their best bet for getting someone in office

2304
02:12:25,480 --> 02:12:28,600
Speaker 1: that they would actually like to see in power. Um,

2305
02:12:28,600 --> 02:12:30,880
Speaker 1: which could I mean could be interesting to see how

2306
02:12:30,920 --> 02:12:35,120
Speaker 1: they if they will be continued support for the PPC

2307
02:12:35,280 --> 02:12:39,920
Speaker 1: and two to four years um. But yeah, I just

2308
02:12:39,960 --> 02:12:42,920
Speaker 1: think there there is a real hardening of the right.

2309
02:12:42,960 --> 02:12:46,560
Speaker 1: And it's not like the Overton window is shifting. It's

2310
02:12:46,600 --> 02:12:49,360
Speaker 1: just like it's getting wider, like more and more is

2311
02:12:49,400 --> 02:12:52,280
Speaker 1: being incorporated, as opposed to be just going in one

2312
02:12:52,320 --> 02:12:57,160
Speaker 1: direction or another. That disenfranchisement is a driving factor. Like

2313
02:12:57,200 --> 02:13:00,839
Speaker 1: they view this populist kind of uprising or up swelling

2314
02:13:01,960 --> 02:13:05,600
Speaker 1: um that they're seeing now as a function of democracy

2315
02:13:05,680 --> 02:13:08,879
Speaker 1: or like part of how democracy is supposed to function.

2316
02:13:09,560 --> 02:13:11,480
Speaker 1: So again, like if if you talk to them, they

2317
02:13:11,520 --> 02:13:14,480
Speaker 1: will quite earnestly say many of them anyway, we'll quite

2318
02:13:14,480 --> 02:13:16,760
Speaker 1: earnestly say it like this is about freedom, is about

2319
02:13:16,760 --> 02:13:20,920
Speaker 1: having my voice heard. Yeah, but without a lot of

2320
02:13:21,600 --> 02:13:26,520
Speaker 1: thought about how that will actually functioned in a broader scale.

2321
02:13:27,240 --> 02:13:29,560
Speaker 1: I mean that just plays into like alienation as like

2322
02:13:29,560 --> 02:13:33,200
Speaker 1: a general concepts, right, Like we're so disconnected from everything

2323
02:13:33,240 --> 02:13:36,240
Speaker 1: about our lives, disconnected from you know, the way we work,

2324
02:13:37,080 --> 02:13:40,320
Speaker 1: disconnected from our interactions with other people, between, disconnected from

2325
02:13:40,360 --> 02:13:42,840
Speaker 1: like you know, money, our food, you know, it's all

2326
02:13:42,840 --> 02:13:45,560
Speaker 1: the stuff, and like disconnected from politics. Is that the

2327
02:13:45,600 --> 02:13:48,400
Speaker 1: only way that you can actually something that feels real,

2328
02:13:48,840 --> 02:13:51,400
Speaker 1: the only thing that actually feels like reality, is going

2329
02:13:51,440 --> 02:13:53,760
Speaker 1: to do this thing in person because everything else is

2330
02:13:53,800 --> 02:13:57,920
Speaker 1: so disjointed. Um, it's the there is so much of

2331
02:13:58,000 --> 02:14:01,400
Speaker 1: that space in between the phenomenon and the actual thing

2332
02:14:02,080 --> 02:14:05,320
Speaker 1: that is. It leaves you wanting something which you don't

2333
02:14:05,320 --> 02:14:07,240
Speaker 1: know quite what. So yeah, you're going to drive to

2334
02:14:07,240 --> 02:14:09,480
Speaker 1: Ottawa because that feels so much more real. That feels

2335
02:14:09,480 --> 02:14:11,800
Speaker 1: like actual politics, and it kind of it is like

2336
02:14:12,160 --> 02:14:14,560
Speaker 1: that's like that's that's that's always when it feels like

2337
02:14:14,600 --> 02:14:17,080
Speaker 1: when you're when you're like when you're when you're protesting,

2338
02:14:17,080 --> 02:14:20,320
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, I'm actually doing politics now, because that's

2339
02:14:20,360 --> 02:14:23,320
Speaker 1: how everything gets set up is by that type of

2340
02:14:23,360 --> 02:14:26,400
Speaker 1: like you know, getting people on the ground, and it's

2341
02:14:26,480 --> 02:14:29,160
Speaker 1: it's such a more personal way to engage than you know,

2342
02:14:29,240 --> 02:14:32,840
Speaker 1: putting a no into a box every two to four years,

2343
02:14:32,920 --> 02:14:35,800
Speaker 1: like yeah, I I imagine it does feel substantive. And

2344
02:14:35,920 --> 02:14:39,400
Speaker 1: then I mean voting power is centered in our urban

2345
02:14:39,440 --> 02:14:42,280
Speaker 1: centers as well, so there is there is a real

2346
02:14:42,360 --> 02:14:47,480
Speaker 1: disconnect with the representation that that rural people again Western

2347
02:14:47,720 --> 02:14:51,840
Speaker 1: the Western provinces received. I now want to specifically talk

2348
02:14:51,840 --> 02:14:55,360
Speaker 1: about police response and the way needs this occupation and

2349
02:14:55,440 --> 02:14:59,720
Speaker 1: blockades being handled will affect the political organizing in the future.

2350
02:15:00,480 --> 02:15:03,480
Speaker 1: I think initially the majority of police concerns and what

2351
02:15:03,560 --> 02:15:07,000
Speaker 1: they were actually focused on responding to was fears around

2352
02:15:07,040 --> 02:15:10,600
Speaker 1: the convoy storming Parliament or if the convoys were going

2353
02:15:10,680 --> 02:15:14,120
Speaker 1: to do something exceedingly violent, which I don't think was

2354
02:15:14,160 --> 02:15:18,440
Speaker 1: necessarily the convoy's actionable objective from the beginning, if you

2355
02:15:18,520 --> 02:15:20,720
Speaker 1: listen to what they were actually saying, it will it

2356
02:15:20,880 --> 02:15:23,680
Speaker 1: was more about choking out the city and applying pressure

2357
02:15:23,680 --> 02:15:27,160
Speaker 1: on government officials. But the initial non violence, coupled with

2358
02:15:27,240 --> 02:15:30,400
Speaker 1: the shield of being conservative, white and middle class whom

2359
02:15:30,480 --> 02:15:32,360
Speaker 1: you know, the police are less likely to react as

2360
02:15:32,400 --> 02:15:36,120
Speaker 1: brutally to allowed time for the infrastructure to rise. That

2361
02:15:36,200 --> 02:15:39,240
Speaker 1: let the protests turn into a full scale occupation of

2362
02:15:39,240 --> 02:15:43,320
Speaker 1: a North American city. The first real action police took

2363
02:15:43,360 --> 02:15:47,440
Speaker 1: against the occupation was on the evening of Sunday, February six,

2364
02:15:48,160 --> 02:15:51,840
Speaker 1: demonstrators were gathering for dinner than dozens of officers in

2365
02:15:51,960 --> 02:15:56,040
Speaker 1: riot gear carrying munitions launchers raided a camp after footage

2366
02:15:56,040 --> 02:16:00,240
Speaker 1: of stockpiles and gas cans went viral days previous, in

2367
02:16:00,240 --> 02:16:03,080
Speaker 1: an attempt to cut the supply route. Police say they

2368
02:16:03,120 --> 02:16:06,640
Speaker 1: seized around three thousand and seven hundred liters of fuel

2369
02:16:07,080 --> 02:16:11,000
Speaker 1: and two vehicles, including a diesel tank, but within hours

2370
02:16:11,040 --> 02:16:14,280
Speaker 1: of the raid, protesters from the camp broadcast reassurance to

2371
02:16:14,320 --> 02:16:18,760
Speaker 1: their supporters and continue to organize just goodalizing smarter tactics.

2372
02:16:19,560 --> 02:16:23,080
Speaker 1: The day after the police raid, protesters continued to deliver

2373
02:16:23,120 --> 02:16:26,840
Speaker 1: fuel to downtown truckers as they executed a coordinated effort

2374
02:16:26,880 --> 02:16:31,480
Speaker 1: to exhaust police resources. Hundreds of demonstrators carried fuel cans,

2375
02:16:31,520 --> 02:16:35,039
Speaker 1: some empty, some not, just right past officers who mostly

2376
02:16:35,200 --> 02:16:38,480
Speaker 1: stood watched as hundreds of people trolled them with decoy

2377
02:16:38,600 --> 02:16:42,680
Speaker 1: cans while others smuggled in more fuel within the safety

2378
02:16:42,720 --> 02:16:45,240
Speaker 1: of the large crowd right in the middle of the day.

2379
02:16:45,680 --> 02:16:49,760
Speaker 1: Ottawa Police Deputy Chief Steve Bell said the demonstrators were

2380
02:16:49,800 --> 02:16:53,480
Speaker 1: filling cast cans with water to distract officers attempting to

2381
02:16:53,520 --> 02:16:56,760
Speaker 1: subvert their efforts, and that one officer was swarmed by

2382
02:16:56,800 --> 02:17:00,840
Speaker 1: the crowd while trying to confiscate fuel. To date, police

2383
02:17:00,879 --> 02:17:04,240
Speaker 1: have made around thirty arrests and issued thousands of tickets,

2384
02:17:04,640 --> 02:17:08,480
Speaker 1: launched more than eighty criminal investigations, and four hundred plus

2385
02:17:08,520 --> 02:17:12,680
Speaker 1: hate incidents are also being investigated. Earlier this week, Peter

2386
02:17:12,800 --> 02:17:15,400
Speaker 1: slowly said that the force would turn up the heat

2387
02:17:15,480 --> 02:17:18,120
Speaker 1: as the police started to crack down on anyone bringing

2388
02:17:18,160 --> 02:17:22,320
Speaker 1: material aid such as fuel to protesters. Police is mentled

2389
02:17:22,360 --> 02:17:26,120
Speaker 1: a protest camp near the Redeau Canal downtown and a

2390
02:17:26,160 --> 02:17:29,280
Speaker 1: fuel operation on the Coventry Road east of the Core,

2391
02:17:29,879 --> 02:17:33,760
Speaker 1: but some trucks and demonstrators continued to occupy downtown streets

2392
02:17:34,720 --> 02:17:38,760
Speaker 1: and the staging area on Coventry. Police say that they

2393
02:17:38,800 --> 02:17:43,160
Speaker 1: need an additional eighteen hundred more reinforcements from federal and

2394
02:17:43,200 --> 02:17:47,560
Speaker 1: provincial governments to help end the crisis. The entire Ottawa

2395
02:17:47,560 --> 02:17:50,959
Speaker 1: Police Force numbers only twelve hundred, but it's been supplemented

2396
02:17:51,040 --> 02:17:54,560
Speaker 1: with several hundred officers from the Ontario Provisional Police and

2397
02:17:54,640 --> 02:17:57,880
Speaker 1: the Royal Canadian Mounted Police as well as local police

2398
02:17:57,879 --> 02:18:02,440
Speaker 1: forces elsewhere in Ontario over the past few weeks. Near

2399
02:18:02,480 --> 02:18:05,600
Speaker 1: the end of the second week of occupation, dug Ford,

2400
02:18:05,680 --> 02:18:08,920
Speaker 1: the Premier of Ontario, declared a state of emergency for

2401
02:18:09,000 --> 02:18:12,760
Speaker 1: the entire province, warning protesters demanding an end to pandemic

2402
02:18:12,800 --> 02:18:15,560
Speaker 1: restrictions that if they do not disband, there will be

2403
02:18:15,640 --> 02:18:19,120
Speaker 1: consequences and they will be severe. He said that those

2404
02:18:19,160 --> 02:18:21,840
Speaker 1: who continue to impede the movement of people and goods

2405
02:18:21,920 --> 02:18:25,000
Speaker 1: could face fines of up to one hundred thousand Canadian dollars,

2406
02:18:25,160 --> 02:18:28,080
Speaker 1: up to a year in prison, and the revocation of

2407
02:18:28,120 --> 02:18:32,279
Speaker 1: their driver's license. During the cold morning of Sunday, February,

2408
02:18:33,440 --> 02:18:36,800
Speaker 1: police largely cleared the portion of the self styled freedom

2409
02:18:36,760 --> 02:18:40,760
Speaker 1: of Convoy blocking the Ambassador Bridge US Canada border crossing

2410
02:18:41,160 --> 02:18:45,680
Speaker 1: on the road between Windsor, Ontario, and Detroit. The clearing

2411
02:18:45,720 --> 02:18:49,840
Speaker 1: marked a week since the border blockade had begun. Police

2412
02:18:50,000 --> 02:18:52,879
Speaker 1: made several arrests and towed vehicles in connection to the

2413
02:18:52,920 --> 02:18:56,000
Speaker 1: demonstration that had disrupted traffic and the flow of goods.

2414
02:18:56,480 --> 02:18:59,959
Speaker 1: After law enforcement enforced the injunction enacted two days prior or,

2415
02:19:00,040 --> 02:19:04,000
Speaker 1: ring truckers and our supporters to leave anticketed and towed vehicles.

2416
02:19:04,040 --> 02:19:07,320
Speaker 1: A defined core of some two dozen protesters had remained

2417
02:19:07,360 --> 02:19:11,440
Speaker 1: on foot as temperatures dropped below freezing, but around nine

2418
02:19:11,480 --> 02:19:14,240
Speaker 1: thirty local time, police had mostly cleared the streets to

2419
02:19:14,280 --> 02:19:18,800
Speaker 1: the bridge and were deployed around the area. It was unclear, however,

2420
02:19:18,959 --> 02:19:21,800
Speaker 1: how large police presidents would remain to prevent vehicles and

2421
02:19:21,840 --> 02:19:25,840
Speaker 1: demonstrators from returning there. Meanwhile, in the capital of Ottawa,

2422
02:19:26,000 --> 02:19:29,000
Speaker 1: police grappled with an influx of anti government and anti

2423
02:19:29,120 --> 02:19:33,320
Speaker 1: vaccine mandate demonstrators for a third straight weekend. Despite both

2424
02:19:33,400 --> 02:19:37,680
Speaker 1: local and provincial officials declaring states of emergency, law enforcement

2425
02:19:37,720 --> 02:19:40,720
Speaker 1: appeared to be unsuccessful in attempts to get the Freedom

2426
02:19:40,760 --> 02:19:45,080
Speaker 1: Convoy protesters to leave by threatening them with fines, prison time,

2427
02:19:45,360 --> 02:19:48,200
Speaker 1: and loss of their licenses. Police have not made any

2428
02:19:48,280 --> 02:19:51,200
Speaker 1: large effort to asrupt to the convoys in Ottawa, similar

2429
02:19:51,240 --> 02:19:55,400
Speaker 1: to what they did on Sunday in Windsor, Ontario. Ottawa

2430
02:19:55,400 --> 02:19:58,400
Speaker 1: police say that over four thousand demonstrators were in this

2431
02:19:58,480 --> 02:20:03,680
Speaker 1: city throughout the day. However, on Monday, February fourteenth, police

2432
02:20:03,800 --> 02:20:06,880
Speaker 1: action was taken against the blockade at the Coots border

2433
02:20:06,920 --> 02:20:10,240
Speaker 1: crossing that had shut down cross border travel. For almost

2434
02:20:10,280 --> 02:20:13,400
Speaker 1: three weeks. The RCNP said in a press release early

2435
02:20:13,440 --> 02:20:16,040
Speaker 1: Monday morning that they became aware of a small organized

2436
02:20:16,040 --> 02:20:19,160
Speaker 1: group within the larger protest at Coots, which led to

2437
02:20:19,280 --> 02:20:22,400
Speaker 1: eleven arrests. They say that they hit information that the

2438
02:20:22,440 --> 02:20:25,600
Speaker 1: group had access to a cash of firearms and ammunition

2439
02:20:25,680 --> 02:20:30,400
Speaker 1: in three trailers. During the raid, officers seized long guns, handguns,

2440
02:20:30,480 --> 02:20:33,520
Speaker 1: multiple sets of body armor, a machete, and a large

2441
02:20:33,560 --> 02:20:39,039
Speaker 1: commantity of ammunition and some high capacity magazines. Later that day,

2442
02:20:39,080 --> 02:20:42,040
Speaker 1: to other arrests were made in connection to the blockade.

2443
02:20:42,760 --> 02:20:46,200
Speaker 1: Following the police raid and the thirteen arrests, some other

2444
02:20:46,280 --> 02:20:49,519
Speaker 1: organizers of the protest said a decision was reached voluntarily

2445
02:20:49,640 --> 02:20:53,800
Speaker 1: to leave the Coots area. Around Tuesday morning. The organizers

2446
02:20:53,840 --> 02:20:56,879
Speaker 1: made a statement saying, quote, we were infiltrated by an

2447
02:20:56,879 --> 02:21:00,200
Speaker 1: extreme element. Our objective was to be here piece really

2448
02:21:00,640 --> 02:21:03,160
Speaker 1: to keep that message going. We want to peacefully leave

2449
02:21:03,240 --> 02:21:08,920
Speaker 1: Coots and return to our families. As of Tuesday, both

2450
02:21:09,080 --> 02:21:12,160
Speaker 1: the border crossing at the Ambassador Bridge to Detroit and

2451
02:21:12,240 --> 02:21:15,440
Speaker 1: the Coot Sport of entry to Montana are open once again,

2452
02:21:16,000 --> 02:21:19,680
Speaker 1: as the border opened back up in Coots. The previous blockade,

2453
02:21:19,680 --> 02:21:25,920
Speaker 1: protesters and police embraced each other with hugs and handshakes. Meanwhile,

2454
02:21:25,959 --> 02:21:30,280
Speaker 1: on Monday, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau invoked the Emergency's Act

2455
02:21:30,320 --> 02:21:33,080
Speaker 1: for the first time in Canadian history to give the

2456
02:21:33,120 --> 02:21:37,439
Speaker 1: federal government and police extra powers to handle the ongoing

2457
02:21:37,520 --> 02:21:42,359
Speaker 1: blockades and protests against pandemic restrictions. Here's how the measures

2458
02:21:42,480 --> 02:21:46,240
Speaker 1: were taking today will help get the situation under control.

2459
02:21:47,400 --> 02:21:51,240
Speaker 1: The police will be given more tools to restore order

2460
02:21:51,280 --> 02:21:56,360
Speaker 1: in places where public assemblies can constitute illegal and dangerous activities,

2461
02:21:56,600 --> 02:22:00,480
Speaker 1: such as blockades and occupations as seen in Ottawa, the

2462
02:22:00,520 --> 02:22:06,879
Speaker 1: Ambassador Bridge and elsewhere. These tools include strengthening their ability

2463
02:22:06,959 --> 02:22:13,720
Speaker 1: to impose fines or imprisonment. The government will designate secure

2464
02:22:13,840 --> 02:22:17,840
Speaker 1: and protect places and infrastructure that are critical to our

2465
02:22:17,879 --> 02:22:24,280
Speaker 1: economy and people's jobs, including border crossings and airports. We

2466
02:22:24,440 --> 02:22:31,000
Speaker 1: cannot and will not allow illegal and dangerous activities to continue.

2467
02:22:32,280 --> 02:22:35,840
Speaker 1: The Emergencies Act will also allow the government to make

2468
02:22:35,840 --> 02:22:39,760
Speaker 1: sure essential services are rendered, for example, in order to

2469
02:22:39,760 --> 02:22:46,640
Speaker 1: tow vehicles blocking roads. In addition, financial institutions will be

2470
02:22:46,720 --> 02:22:51,680
Speaker 1: authorized or directed to render essential services to help address

2471
02:22:51,760 --> 02:22:56,320
Speaker 1: the situation, including by regulating and prohibiting the use of

2472
02:22:56,400 --> 02:23:03,360
Speaker 1: property to fund or support illegal blockades. Finally, will enable

2473
02:23:03,520 --> 02:23:08,439
Speaker 1: the RCMP to enforce municipal by laws and provincial offenses

2474
02:23:09,120 --> 02:23:15,640
Speaker 1: were required. This is what the Emergencies Act does. The

2475
02:23:15,680 --> 02:23:19,200
Speaker 1: Emergencies Act, which replaced the War Measures Act in the

2476
02:23:19,320 --> 02:23:23,920
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, defines a national emergency as a temporary, urgent,

2477
02:23:24,040 --> 02:23:28,160
Speaker 1: and critical situation that seriously endangers the lives, health, or

2478
02:23:28,240 --> 02:23:31,840
Speaker 1: safety of Canadians and is of such proportions or nature

2479
02:23:32,160 --> 02:23:35,800
Speaker 1: as to extend the capacity of authority of a province

2480
02:23:35,879 --> 02:23:39,720
Speaker 1: to deal with it. The unprecedented deployment of the Emergencies

2481
02:23:39,720 --> 02:23:43,039
Speaker 1: Act gives police quote more tools to restore order in

2482
02:23:43,080 --> 02:23:46,600
Speaker 1: places where public assembly is constitute illegal and dangerous activities,

2483
02:23:46,760 --> 02:23:51,240
Speaker 1: such as blockades and occupations. According to Trudeau, but the

2484
02:23:51,320 --> 02:23:54,760
Speaker 1: thing is police already had all the tools they needed.

2485
02:23:55,040 --> 02:23:58,480
Speaker 1: The illegal occupations and blockades were already illegal, They just

2486
02:23:58,520 --> 02:24:01,560
Speaker 1: didn't want to enforce it. You can look at how

2487
02:24:01,720 --> 02:24:05,080
Speaker 1: the coots, protesters and the police are hugging right. This

2488
02:24:05,160 --> 02:24:08,200
Speaker 1: isn't a matter of having not enough tools. All this

2489
02:24:08,320 --> 02:24:11,880
Speaker 1: does is set a terrible precedent for using this type

2490
02:24:11,879 --> 02:24:14,880
Speaker 1: of extra power in the future to respond to protests.

2491
02:24:15,080 --> 02:24:17,680
Speaker 1: Because the cops are still going to take a very

2492
02:24:17,720 --> 02:24:20,600
Speaker 1: gentle approach if they ever are forced to take physical

2493
02:24:20,640 --> 02:24:24,600
Speaker 1: action against the Ottawa occupation while using the extra powers

2494
02:24:24,680 --> 02:24:28,160
Speaker 1: of the Emergencies Act. The Finance Minister of Canada also

2495
02:24:28,200 --> 02:24:31,959
Speaker 1: announced on Monday a broadening of the laws regarding financing

2496
02:24:32,040 --> 02:24:37,039
Speaker 1: of crime and terrorism to now include crowdfunding and also

2497
02:24:37,160 --> 02:24:40,320
Speaker 1: extra surveillance measures against people who donate and use crowd

2498
02:24:40,320 --> 02:24:45,280
Speaker 1: funds for criminal acts, including legal protests. As part of

2499
02:24:45,320 --> 02:24:52,120
Speaker 1: invoking the Emergencies Act, we are announcing the following immediate actions. First,

2500
02:24:52,640 --> 02:24:56,040
Speaker 1: we are broadening the scope of Canada's anti money laudering,

2501
02:24:56,200 --> 02:25:01,839
Speaker 1: laundering and terrorist financing rules so that they cover crowdfunding

2502
02:25:01,959 --> 02:25:07,640
Speaker 1: platforms and the payment service providers they use. These changes

2503
02:25:07,720 --> 02:25:14,920
Speaker 1: cover all forms of transactions, including digital assets such as cryptocurrencies.

2504
02:25:16,120 --> 02:25:20,800
Speaker 1: The illegal blockades have highlighted the fact that crowdfunding platforms

2505
02:25:21,400 --> 02:25:25,280
Speaker 1: and some of the payment service providers they use are

2506
02:25:25,400 --> 02:25:29,480
Speaker 1: not fully captured under the Proceeds of Crime and Terrorist

2507
02:25:29,520 --> 02:25:35,240
Speaker 1: Financing Act. Our banks and financial institutions are already obligated

2508
02:25:35,360 --> 02:25:39,960
Speaker 1: to report to the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Center

2509
02:25:40,120 --> 02:25:47,039
Speaker 1: of Canada or FINTRACK. As of today, all crowdfunding platforms

2510
02:25:47,520 --> 02:25:52,600
Speaker 1: and the payment service providers they use must register with fintrack,

2511
02:25:53,360 --> 02:25:59,080
Speaker 1: and they must report large and suspicious transactions to fintrack

2512
02:26:00,320 --> 02:26:04,679
Speaker 1: h This will help mitigate the risk that these platforms

2513
02:26:04,840 --> 02:26:10,880
Speaker 1: receive illicit funds, increase the quality and quantity of intelligence

2514
02:26:10,959 --> 02:26:16,560
Speaker 1: received by fintrack, and make more information available to support

2515
02:26:16,640 --> 02:26:22,760
Speaker 1: investigations by law enforcement into these illegal blockades. That's kind

2516
02:26:22,800 --> 02:26:25,440
Speaker 1: of all the information I have at the time of recording.

2517
02:26:25,680 --> 02:26:28,280
Speaker 1: So now I'm going to talk more about the potential

2518
02:26:28,360 --> 02:26:31,720
Speaker 1: political effects that this protest could have, not just on Canada,

2519
02:26:32,120 --> 02:26:35,680
Speaker 1: but also in how we view protest in general. So

2520
02:26:36,160 --> 02:26:39,440
Speaker 1: the actual result of liberal media framing this type of

2521
02:26:39,480 --> 02:26:44,560
Speaker 1: protest as scary terrorism is laying the groundwork for brutal

2522
02:26:44,640 --> 02:26:49,360
Speaker 1: police actions against massive, mostly non violent, and tactically smart

2523
02:26:49,400 --> 02:26:54,680
Speaker 1: protests to be more normalized across Canada, and extremely brutal

2524
02:26:54,720 --> 02:26:58,200
Speaker 1: police response and harsh charges are unlikely to be leveled

2525
02:26:58,240 --> 02:27:01,800
Speaker 1: against a protest made up of these conservatives, but will

2526
02:27:01,840 --> 02:27:06,279
Speaker 1: absolutely happen to any future progressive social justice cause, especially

2527
02:27:06,280 --> 02:27:10,440
Speaker 1: if they use occupy style tactics. The more powers police

2528
02:27:10,480 --> 02:27:13,440
Speaker 1: obtain and the legal precedents that are set well of

2529
02:27:13,600 --> 02:27:17,360
Speaker 1: long lasting implications with legal consequences that will always come

2530
02:27:17,360 --> 02:27:19,840
Speaker 1: down harder on the left than they do on the right.

2531
02:27:20,480 --> 02:27:24,120
Speaker 1: Police will do a bare minimum to resolve this conservative

2532
02:27:24,240 --> 02:27:27,640
Speaker 1: so called freedom protest, but then we'll use it as

2533
02:27:27,640 --> 02:27:31,600
Speaker 1: a justification to grab greater resources and power and use

2534
02:27:31,680 --> 02:27:36,640
Speaker 1: this movement to justify severe preventative protest suppression in the future.

2535
02:27:37,520 --> 02:27:41,359
Speaker 1: If liberals can widely celebrate and thirst for harsh crackdowns

2536
02:27:41,360 --> 02:27:44,920
Speaker 1: of a protest made up of white conservatives and their families,

2537
02:27:45,280 --> 02:27:48,800
Speaker 1: calling the entire movement a criminal enterprise, and cheering on

2538
02:27:48,840 --> 02:27:52,120
Speaker 1: as police steal property of the protesters despite what the

2539
02:27:52,120 --> 02:27:55,039
Speaker 1: majority of these protesters are doing, just being kind of

2540
02:27:55,080 --> 02:27:57,640
Speaker 1: camping onside of a street. Think of all of the

2541
02:27:57,680 --> 02:28:00,720
Speaker 1: ways that consent it can be manufactured to clamped down

2542
02:28:00,720 --> 02:28:04,640
Speaker 1: on any future large scale protest, especially when the movement

2543
02:28:05,160 --> 02:28:07,440
Speaker 1: isn't made up of a bunch of regular white people

2544
02:28:07,520 --> 02:28:10,720
Speaker 1: and their kids, and instead of actually challenges the underlying

2545
02:28:10,760 --> 02:28:13,880
Speaker 1: power structures that prop up white Canada, instead of just

2546
02:28:13,959 --> 02:28:17,520
Speaker 1: reinforcing it like the Convoy does. I have a similar

2547
02:28:17,560 --> 02:28:20,800
Speaker 1: issue around all of the hubbub around the fundraisers right.

2548
02:28:21,360 --> 02:28:25,720
Speaker 1: Restricting where crowdfunded resources can come from will only result

2549
02:28:25,800 --> 02:28:30,080
Speaker 1: in future political social justice causes to be negatively impacted,

2550
02:28:30,360 --> 02:28:33,760
Speaker 1: whether that be bail funds or supporting indigenous blockades from

2551
02:28:33,760 --> 02:28:37,840
Speaker 1: out of country. On February ten, the Canadian federal government

2552
02:28:37,840 --> 02:28:42,119
Speaker 1: effectively shut down the Freedom Convoys Gives end Go fundraiser,

2553
02:28:42,440 --> 02:28:44,600
Speaker 1: making it illegal for the funds to be used in

2554
02:28:44,640 --> 02:28:48,359
Speaker 1: any way. Government's setting the precedent for shutting down protest

2555
02:28:48,400 --> 02:28:51,920
Speaker 1: crowdfunding is not a good thing now. Any future of

2556
02:28:52,000 --> 02:28:55,279
Speaker 1: protest bail funds and crowdfunding for the set In blockade

2557
02:28:55,400 --> 02:28:58,879
Speaker 1: will always be in jeopardy, and by no means saying

2558
02:28:58,920 --> 02:29:03,039
Speaker 1: that action against a generally hateful, anti democratic, and dangerously

2559
02:29:03,120 --> 02:29:08,280
Speaker 1: conspiratorial protest isn't justified, but just when governments start using

2560
02:29:08,280 --> 02:29:12,480
Speaker 1: it as reasons for more power and creating new precedents

2561
02:29:12,560 --> 02:29:15,720
Speaker 1: for years in jail and hundreds of thousands of dollars

2562
02:29:15,720 --> 02:29:19,440
Speaker 1: and fines for an occupation. Protest like that shouldn't be

2563
02:29:19,520 --> 02:29:22,320
Speaker 1: cheered on because those things will only come back to

2564
02:29:22,400 --> 02:29:25,320
Speaker 1: bite progressive causes a lot harder than they will be

2565
02:29:25,440 --> 02:29:30,240
Speaker 1: used against the conservative convoyers. There has increasingly been attempts

2566
02:29:30,240 --> 02:29:34,040
Speaker 1: at counter protesting the Ottawa Convoy and the various Convoy

2567
02:29:34,080 --> 02:29:37,520
Speaker 1: inspired protests around the country. Many of which faced harsher

2568
02:29:37,520 --> 02:29:40,440
Speaker 1: police response than any of the convert protests have up

2569
02:29:40,520 --> 02:29:45,360
Speaker 1: until this point, but those community led counterprotesting efforts are vital.

2570
02:29:45,840 --> 02:29:49,959
Speaker 1: The ram Ranch resistance actions are still ongoing. On Sunday night,

2571
02:29:50,080 --> 02:29:52,519
Speaker 1: the u r L for the Gifts Send Go fundraiser

2572
02:29:52,800 --> 02:29:55,520
Speaker 1: was hacked by activists who redirected the page to a

2573
02:29:55,640 --> 02:29:59,039
Speaker 1: video of the frozen song let It Go, accompanying a

2574
02:29:59,080 --> 02:30:03,360
Speaker 1: manifesto condemning the fundraiser and the Convoy. And that's great,

2575
02:30:03,400 --> 02:30:06,600
Speaker 1: and that is wonderful counter protesting. That is very in

2576
02:30:06,680 --> 02:30:09,840
Speaker 1: terms of effective ways to shut down fundraising efforts for

2577
02:30:10,360 --> 02:30:15,960
Speaker 1: basically pseudo fascist you know, anti anti democratic conspiracy lad movement.

2578
02:30:16,800 --> 02:30:19,720
Speaker 1: That's great, right, And this was hours after it was

2579
02:30:19,760 --> 02:30:23,080
Speaker 1: officially confirmed to via data leaks that around fifty percent

2580
02:30:23,240 --> 02:30:26,040
Speaker 1: of gibsend Go donations for the Convoy came from the

2581
02:30:26,120 --> 02:30:30,279
Speaker 1: United States, around came from Canada, and then two percent

2582
02:30:30,400 --> 02:30:33,400
Speaker 1: came from the UK. Although I think it's worth mentioning

2583
02:30:33,480 --> 02:30:36,200
Speaker 1: that for the initial ten million dollar go fund me,

2584
02:30:36,760 --> 02:30:40,080
Speaker 1: we only have confirmation that around thirty three thou dollars

2585
02:30:40,120 --> 02:30:43,680
Speaker 1: came from the United States. To understand how the Convoy

2586
02:30:43,720 --> 02:30:47,440
Speaker 1: flash blockade is working. It's useful to get away from

2587
02:30:47,560 --> 02:30:52,480
Speaker 1: painting all the participants themselves as extremists, because the fact

2588
02:30:52,560 --> 02:30:55,840
Speaker 1: that regular Canadian right wingers are what's making this possible

2589
02:30:56,200 --> 02:30:58,879
Speaker 1: has a whole bunch of other implications that people aren't

2590
02:30:58,879 --> 02:31:02,160
Speaker 1: really talking about. I'm seeing a lot of Canadians who

2591
02:31:02,160 --> 02:31:05,359
Speaker 1: are just really upset about how the convoys affecting cities

2592
02:31:05,600 --> 02:31:08,720
Speaker 1: and the country as a whole, which, you know, reasonable,

2593
02:31:08,840 --> 02:31:11,280
Speaker 1: I am, it is a thing to be upset about.

2594
02:31:11,560 --> 02:31:14,840
Speaker 1: But then just jumping to insist that it must be inorganic,

2595
02:31:15,240 --> 02:31:18,840
Speaker 1: I think is kind of faulty. Focusing instead on theories

2596
02:31:18,879 --> 02:31:23,080
Speaker 1: around foreign influences and ashtarf organizing elements of which have

2597
02:31:23,240 --> 02:31:26,480
Speaker 1: been present, sure, but also the impact in which is

2598
02:31:26,520 --> 02:31:29,160
Speaker 1: I think kind of been overblown. But even if those

2599
02:31:29,200 --> 02:31:33,600
Speaker 1: things are completely true and major factors, that still overlooks

2600
02:31:33,600 --> 02:31:36,840
Speaker 1: the fact that there are thousands of real Canadians from

2601
02:31:36,840 --> 02:31:40,560
Speaker 1: around the country camped up in Ottawa, and the majority

2602
02:31:40,600 --> 02:31:43,560
Speaker 1: of those Canadians sitting in the streets are not Nazis

2603
02:31:43,720 --> 02:31:47,120
Speaker 1: right or really even extremists, and most of those people

2604
02:31:47,200 --> 02:31:51,320
Speaker 1: are not receiving personal funding from dark money billionaires. They

2605
02:31:51,360 --> 02:31:56,080
Speaker 1: consider themselves regular, working class, freedom loving Canadians. It's much

2606
02:31:56,120 --> 02:32:00,120
Speaker 1: harder to reconcile a homegrown movement full of participants that

2607
02:32:00,160 --> 02:32:02,039
Speaker 1: have slid further to the right over the past two

2608
02:32:02,120 --> 02:32:05,960
Speaker 1: years due to rampant online misinformation coupled with ineffectual government

2609
02:32:06,040 --> 02:32:09,560
Speaker 1: support during the pandemic. It's easy to point to so

2610
02:32:09,640 --> 02:32:14,040
Speaker 1: called organizers who are definitely more fashion, large scale sketchy donations,

2611
02:32:14,280 --> 02:32:16,440
Speaker 1: and far right media figures who are trying to jump

2612
02:32:16,560 --> 02:32:20,560
Speaker 1: support for the convoy. But those things alone don't get

2613
02:32:20,600 --> 02:32:23,440
Speaker 1: many of thousands and thousands of people and their kids

2614
02:32:23,640 --> 02:32:26,279
Speaker 1: to drive across country for a cause that they earnestly

2615
02:32:26,320 --> 02:32:30,760
Speaker 1: believe in the years of political alienation and disenfrantisement that

2616
02:32:31,000 --> 02:32:33,840
Speaker 1: caused that to happen is a lot harder to solve

2617
02:32:33,879 --> 02:32:38,640
Speaker 1: than just cracking down on organizers and donations. Watching homegrown

2618
02:32:38,720 --> 02:32:42,200
Speaker 1: reactionary street politics that one day can grow into an

2619
02:32:42,240 --> 02:32:45,920
Speaker 1: actual far right, populist and fascist movement is a lot

2620
02:32:45,959 --> 02:32:50,600
Speaker 1: more frightening than the idea of overseas astroturft organizing. Not

2621
02:32:50,680 --> 02:32:53,080
Speaker 1: that those things are mutually exclusive always, but I'm just

2622
02:32:53,080 --> 02:32:56,280
Speaker 1: trying to make a good point here. Despite cries to

2623
02:32:56,360 --> 02:33:00,440
Speaker 1: make this, Canada's January six in a way, the convoys

2624
02:33:00,480 --> 02:33:03,400
Speaker 1: more effective than January six in terms of the evolution

2625
02:33:03,800 --> 02:33:07,400
Speaker 1: of valid political action. It's pushed the boundary on what

2626
02:33:07,560 --> 02:33:10,880
Speaker 1: is deemed as acceptable and even possible for large scale

2627
02:33:10,920 --> 02:33:15,040
Speaker 1: occupations and supply line blockades. In the major North American

2628
02:33:15,280 --> 02:33:19,840
Speaker 1: urban setting, people who would never consider themselves militant are

2629
02:33:19,879 --> 02:33:24,320
Speaker 1: now involved in multiple border crossing blockades. That's cost hundreds

2630
02:33:24,360 --> 02:33:26,600
Speaker 1: of millions of dollars, and to get to this point,

2631
02:33:27,080 --> 02:33:31,160
Speaker 1: so many things need to happen. COVID isolation offered fertile

2632
02:33:31,240 --> 02:33:34,120
Speaker 1: ground for people's politics to unknowing these slide more to

2633
02:33:34,200 --> 02:33:37,400
Speaker 1: the extreme, the many in person connections that help prevent

2634
02:33:37,440 --> 02:33:41,080
Speaker 1: people from falling prey to conspiratorial thinking ceased to exist.

2635
02:33:41,760 --> 02:33:45,640
Speaker 1: General frustration at Trudeau and the perceived notion of liberalism

2636
02:33:45,640 --> 02:33:49,760
Speaker 1: and elitism has been steadily growing since, and all that

2637
02:33:49,840 --> 02:33:53,680
Speaker 1: mounted up frustration is now being released, and as a result,

2638
02:33:53,760 --> 02:33:57,879
Speaker 1: the invisible Overton window of acceptable political action has shifted

2639
02:33:58,000 --> 02:34:02,000
Speaker 1: right in regular conservatives. My means, and a movement like

2640
02:34:02,040 --> 02:34:05,960
Speaker 1: this is hard to dissolve. Police actions have the chance

2641
02:34:06,000 --> 02:34:10,240
Speaker 1: of escalating the situation and elongating people's willingness to protest,

2642
02:34:10,760 --> 02:34:13,960
Speaker 1: and even if more mandates get removed. That doesn't mean

2643
02:34:13,959 --> 02:34:17,360
Speaker 1: the protests will stop either. Removing the Alberta mandates didn't

2644
02:34:17,400 --> 02:34:20,560
Speaker 1: stop the Coots border blockade, for instance, because you know,

2645
02:34:20,720 --> 02:34:23,680
Speaker 1: even if all the mandates in Canada get rescinded, which

2646
02:34:23,680 --> 02:34:26,440
Speaker 1: whish they won't and whish they shouldn't, but even if

2647
02:34:26,480 --> 02:34:29,680
Speaker 1: they did, that would still leave the US's Vaccine Board

2648
02:34:29,760 --> 02:34:33,240
Speaker 1: requirements which are preventing on vaccinated truckers from entering the

2649
02:34:33,240 --> 02:34:37,720
Speaker 1: States anyway. Similar tactics and protests inspired by the Canadian

2650
02:34:37,760 --> 02:34:42,240
Speaker 1: convoy have broken out overseas in recent weeks. The convoy

2651
02:34:42,280 --> 02:34:45,080
Speaker 1: and blocking inspired protests in New Zealand have led to

2652
02:34:45,200 --> 02:34:48,680
Speaker 1: frequent clashes with police outside New Zealand's Parliament building. For

2653
02:34:48,680 --> 02:34:52,279
Speaker 1: the past two weeks, French protesters formed their own Freedom

2654
02:34:52,320 --> 02:34:56,480
Speaker 1: Convoy against the government's vaccine mandates. The convoy converged on

2655
02:34:56,560 --> 02:35:00,560
Speaker 1: the Shawn's Aliz in Paris on February second, where protesters

2656
02:35:00,560 --> 02:35:04,320
Speaker 1: were met by seven thousand police members and tear gas.

2657
02:35:04,959 --> 02:35:08,119
Speaker 1: Unlike Canada, where the government failed to stop a blockade

2658
02:35:08,200 --> 02:35:11,040
Speaker 1: at the U S border, French authorities got way ahead

2659
02:35:11,040 --> 02:35:13,879
Speaker 1: of this protest by stopping at least five hundred vehicles

2660
02:35:13,879 --> 02:35:16,800
Speaker 1: before they even got to Paris. Only a few dissent

2661
02:35:16,840 --> 02:35:19,160
Speaker 1: cars made it to the Schanz al Liz and the

2662
02:35:19,160 --> 02:35:22,760
Speaker 1: police ticketed three hundred protesters who were present at the demonstration.

2663
02:35:23,440 --> 02:35:27,080
Speaker 1: Protests against government coronavirus restrictions have cut on in Europe

2664
02:35:27,120 --> 02:35:29,640
Speaker 1: and other parts of the world in recent days, but

2665
02:35:29,720 --> 02:35:33,680
Speaker 1: they remained more subdued than the Canadian demonstrations. A convoy

2666
02:35:33,680 --> 02:35:36,320
Speaker 1: of about five hundred vehicles, mostly from France, who are

2667
02:35:36,360 --> 02:35:38,800
Speaker 1: borrowed from entering Brussels of just a few days ago,

2668
02:35:39,240 --> 02:35:42,280
Speaker 1: leaving several hundred protesters to gather on foot at a

2669
02:35:42,360 --> 02:35:46,920
Speaker 1: city square instead. Another convoy of several hundred vehicles blocked

2670
02:35:46,959 --> 02:35:49,520
Speaker 1: access to the seat of the Netherlands government in the

2671
02:35:49,600 --> 02:35:53,880
Speaker 1: Hague on February twelve, And of course many political figures

2672
02:35:53,920 --> 02:35:57,119
Speaker 1: in the US are really trying to get a convoy

2673
02:35:57,280 --> 02:36:01,280
Speaker 1: esque protest kicked off here. In the United States, Tucker

2674
02:36:01,280 --> 02:36:05,040
Speaker 1: Carlson and Fox News in general has covered the convoy NonStop,

2675
02:36:05,200 --> 02:36:08,240
Speaker 1: giving it tons and tons of support. Tucker has said

2676
02:36:08,280 --> 02:36:12,160
Speaker 1: that the Canadian trucker convoy is the single most successful

2677
02:36:12,440 --> 02:36:16,600
Speaker 1: human rights protestant in a generation. Senator Rand Paul So

2678
02:36:16,720 --> 02:36:19,840
Speaker 1: that he hopes the truckers come to America and specifically

2679
02:36:19,879 --> 02:36:23,199
Speaker 1: two clog up cities. At least nine members of Congress,

2680
02:36:23,240 --> 02:36:26,279
Speaker 1: all Republicans, have all publicized their support for the convoy

2681
02:36:26,320 --> 02:36:30,720
Speaker 1: participants on Twitter. Self appointed organizers for a US based

2682
02:36:30,760 --> 02:36:35,400
Speaker 1: convoy have found quick support from conservative outlets. US convoy

2683
02:36:35,520 --> 02:36:39,000
Speaker 1: organizer Brian Brace has been making the rounds on Fox

2684
02:36:39,040 --> 02:36:42,120
Speaker 1: News sitting Down with Carlson, as well as the networks

2685
02:36:42,160 --> 02:36:45,480
Speaker 1: Fox and Friends Morning Show. Brace says that he hoped

2686
02:36:45,480 --> 02:36:49,480
Speaker 1: to organize a cross country convoy from California to Washington,

2687
02:36:49,560 --> 02:36:54,000
Speaker 1: d C starting around March fourth. Routes to converge on

2688
02:36:54,080 --> 02:36:56,920
Speaker 1: d C from across the country are being planned, while

2689
02:36:56,959 --> 02:37:01,080
Speaker 1: the group's telegram channel was actively soliciting volunteers and donations

2690
02:37:01,120 --> 02:37:05,240
Speaker 1: of items like tents, generators, and p A systems. I

2691
02:37:05,320 --> 02:37:07,640
Speaker 1: kind of hope people on the left can look at

2692
02:37:07,720 --> 02:37:11,000
Speaker 1: the tactics being used in Canada, some that have worked

2693
02:37:11,000 --> 02:37:13,760
Speaker 1: and some that have faltered. But in terms of like

2694
02:37:13,840 --> 02:37:17,039
Speaker 1: anti capitalist action, you can't do much better than causing

2695
02:37:17,120 --> 02:37:20,039
Speaker 1: hundreds and millions of dollars and losses to international trade

2696
02:37:20,240 --> 02:37:24,320
Speaker 1: between two of the biggest countries in the world. Right now,

2697
02:37:24,600 --> 02:37:28,840
Speaker 1: no protest movement can be replicated, But any movement can

2698
02:37:28,879 --> 02:37:32,800
Speaker 1: be analyzed and that can inform how folks approach future

2699
02:37:32,840 --> 02:37:36,640
Speaker 1: movements as they spontaneously arise, and I, at the very

2700
02:37:36,720 --> 02:37:39,120
Speaker 1: least help you have a better idea now of how

2701
02:37:39,160 --> 02:37:41,800
Speaker 1: only a few thousand people can totally choke out a

2702
02:37:41,840 --> 02:37:45,360
Speaker 1: major city, because we've talked about this possibility before. You know,

2703
02:37:45,840 --> 02:37:48,760
Speaker 1: a group of people overwhelming local law enforcement and taking

2704
02:37:48,800 --> 02:37:51,560
Speaker 1: over and shutting down a sizeable portion of a popular

2705
02:37:51,560 --> 02:37:55,400
Speaker 1: metropolitan area, not to mention simultaneously blocking off supply lines,

2706
02:37:55,640 --> 02:37:59,760
Speaker 1: trade routes, and international border crossings. The evolution of these

2707
02:37:59,840 --> 02:38:03,680
Speaker 1: medium scale anti government resistance tactics is something we all

2708
02:38:03,720 --> 02:38:07,200
Speaker 1: should be paying attention to as the political tensions continue

2709
02:38:07,200 --> 02:38:10,840
Speaker 1: to rise right outside our doorstep, because it's always too

2710
02:38:10,879 --> 02:38:14,320
Speaker 1: late when you realize the calls coming from inside the house.

2711
02:38:30,240 --> 02:38:39,640
Speaker 1: What's incapable of being racist? People joking about Canadians can't

2712
02:38:39,640 --> 02:38:42,240
Speaker 1: do it to Canada. Can't do it to Canada? Or

2713
02:38:42,280 --> 02:38:45,080
Speaker 1: the Princisi could happen here the French. We can be

2714
02:38:45,160 --> 02:38:50,080
Speaker 1: racist against the French. Yeah, speaking of speaking that makes

2715
02:38:50,160 --> 02:38:53,080
Speaker 1: Quebec angrier. But like speaking of racism, Chris, what's our

2716
02:38:53,120 --> 02:38:57,400
Speaker 1: topic today? Yeah, today's episode is about why I hate

2717
02:38:57,400 --> 02:39:01,680
Speaker 1: the cops. Hell. Yeah, specifically it is about is about

2718
02:39:01,760 --> 02:39:05,520
Speaker 1: Chicago Police Department and the many, many, many, many many

2719
02:39:05,600 --> 02:39:09,640
Speaker 1: crimes they have committed. Uh, we're gonna talk about well, okay.

2720
02:39:09,879 --> 02:39:12,800
Speaker 1: To lead us in to explain what we're doing here today,

2721
02:39:12,959 --> 02:39:14,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to read a quote from from the late

2722
02:39:14,720 --> 02:39:19,240
Speaker 1: anthropologist David Grabery from this book The Democracy Project. For

2723
02:39:19,360 --> 02:39:21,480
Speaker 1: my own part. I find what I call the rape

2724
02:39:21,520 --> 02:39:24,960
Speaker 1: torture and Murder test very useful. It's quite simple when

2725
02:39:24,959 --> 02:39:27,480
Speaker 1: presented with the political entity of some kind or another,

2726
02:39:27,560 --> 02:39:30,560
Speaker 1: whether a government, a social movement, a guerilla army, or

2727
02:39:30,600 --> 02:39:33,240
Speaker 1: really any other organized group, and trying to decide whether

2728
02:39:33,760 --> 02:39:37,480
Speaker 1: they deserve condemnation or support. First ask do they commit

2729
02:39:37,720 --> 02:39:40,360
Speaker 1: or do they order others to commit acts of rape,

2730
02:39:40,400 --> 02:39:43,920
Speaker 1: torture or murder. It seems a self evident question. But again,

2731
02:39:44,000 --> 02:39:47,880
Speaker 1: it's surprising how rarely, or better, how selectively it is applied.

2732
02:39:48,480 --> 02:39:51,400
Speaker 1: Or perhaps it might seem surprising until one starts applying

2733
02:39:51,440 --> 02:39:54,040
Speaker 1: it and discovers conventional wisdom. When many will political issues

2734
02:39:54,080 --> 02:39:57,600
Speaker 1: instantly turned upside down. In two thousand six, for example,

2735
02:39:57,720 --> 02:39:59,680
Speaker 1: most people in the United States read about the Mexican

2736
02:39:59,720 --> 02:40:03,560
Speaker 1: government sending federal troops to quell a popular revolt initiated

2737
02:40:03,560 --> 02:40:06,160
Speaker 1: by a teachers union against notoriously corrupt governor in the

2738
02:40:06,200 --> 02:40:09,200
Speaker 1: southern state of Wahaka. In the US media, this was

2739
02:40:09,280 --> 02:40:11,879
Speaker 1: universally presented as a good thing, a restoration of order.

2740
02:40:11,959 --> 02:40:15,160
Speaker 1: The rebels, after all, were violent, having thrown rocks and

2741
02:40:15,200 --> 02:40:17,720
Speaker 1: Molotov cocktails, even if they only threw them at heavily

2742
02:40:17,800 --> 02:40:20,800
Speaker 1: armed police, causing no serious injuries. No one, to my knowledge,

2743
02:40:20,800 --> 02:40:24,560
Speaker 1: has ever suggested that the rebels raped, tortured, or murdered anyone. Neither,

2744
02:40:24,600 --> 02:40:27,680
Speaker 1: as anyone who knows anything about the events in questions

2745
02:40:27,680 --> 02:40:30,080
Speaker 1: seriously contested the fact that forces loyal to the Mexican

2746
02:40:30,120 --> 02:40:32,160
Speaker 1: government had raped, tortured, and murdered quite a number of

2747
02:40:32,200 --> 02:40:35,760
Speaker 1: people in suppressing the rebellion. Yet somehow such acts, unlike

2748
02:40:35,800 --> 02:40:38,720
Speaker 1: the rebels stone throwing, cannot be described as violent at all,

2749
02:40:39,080 --> 02:40:41,480
Speaker 1: let alone as rape, torture, or murder, but only appear,

2750
02:40:41,560 --> 02:40:45,400
Speaker 1: if at all, as accusations of human rights violations, or

2751
02:40:45,400 --> 02:40:51,480
Speaker 1: in some similarly bloodless legalistic language. Yeah, and that that's

2752
02:40:51,520 --> 02:40:53,520
Speaker 1: the framework that I want to take the Chicago Police

2753
02:40:53,520 --> 02:41:01,240
Speaker 1: Department so people can understand why and how and just

2754
02:41:01,240 --> 02:41:03,560
Speaker 1: just sort of get people can get a taste of

2755
02:41:03,560 --> 02:41:06,760
Speaker 1: of the sheer horror that anti police organizers and just

2756
02:41:06,800 --> 02:41:09,039
Speaker 1: like regular people in Chicago are fighting every day because

2757
02:41:09,120 --> 02:41:13,240
Speaker 1: Chicago Police Department fails the rape torture murder test again

2758
02:41:13,400 --> 02:41:16,800
Speaker 1: and again and again and again. And so we are

2759
02:41:16,879 --> 02:41:19,640
Speaker 1: going to tell four stories of torture, rape, and murder

2760
02:41:19,680 --> 02:41:25,119
Speaker 1: by the Chicago Police Department. That seems fun. It's gonna

2761
02:41:25,160 --> 02:41:30,120
Speaker 1: be great. Happy pants on, kids, go for a cruise,

2762
02:41:30,360 --> 02:41:33,920
Speaker 1: you know, take the top down. Um, it's it's time

2763
02:41:34,120 --> 02:41:40,120
Speaker 1: for a good old fest. So our our first story

2764
02:41:40,160 --> 02:41:42,120
Speaker 1: of torture, rape and murder by the CPD is the

2765
02:41:42,120 --> 02:41:45,640
Speaker 1: story of Chicago's infamous torture ring, led by a man

2766
02:41:45,760 --> 02:41:50,360
Speaker 1: named John Burch. Yeah. Now, John Bird has been a

2767
02:41:50,360 --> 02:41:53,520
Speaker 1: military police sergeant working at a pow camp in Vietnam.

2768
02:41:53,640 --> 02:41:55,760
Speaker 1: So so immediately you have a guy who's not only

2769
02:41:55,800 --> 02:41:58,879
Speaker 1: a troop cop, but he's he's he's a troop cop

2770
02:41:58,920 --> 02:42:00,840
Speaker 1: while he was a troop and then he becomes a

2771
02:42:00,879 --> 02:42:06,960
Speaker 1: cop and you know, nothing, nothing good can possibly come

2772
02:42:07,000 --> 02:42:09,800
Speaker 1: from that. And the other thing and nothing good can

2773
02:42:09,800 --> 02:42:11,960
Speaker 1: possibly come from is the fact that while Burge was

2774
02:42:12,000 --> 02:42:14,640
Speaker 1: in Vietnam, the US was doing some just really six

2775
02:42:14,640 --> 02:42:18,000
Speaker 1: ships of Viennamese prisoners, including rape, getting rape, rape with

2776
02:42:18,040 --> 02:42:21,600
Speaker 1: hard objects, and rape followed by murder. Uh. The electric

2777
02:42:21,680 --> 02:42:25,120
Speaker 1: shock called the Bell telephone hour rendered by attaching wires

2778
02:42:25,120 --> 02:42:27,760
Speaker 1: to the genitals and keep your keep that one in mind.

2779
02:42:27,800 --> 02:42:29,840
Speaker 1: We have not seen the last of that. Uh. And

2780
02:42:29,959 --> 02:42:32,400
Speaker 1: rape using eels and snakes, as we have talked about

2781
02:42:32,920 --> 02:42:35,959
Speaker 1: on bastards of it before. Um. They're also like they're

2782
02:42:35,959 --> 02:42:38,280
Speaker 1: also a huge water boarding fans. So this this is,

2783
02:42:38,320 --> 02:42:40,520
Speaker 1: this is the environment that Burge is sort of you know,

2784
02:42:40,560 --> 02:42:42,720
Speaker 1: being trained as a copy in right, He's he's one

2785
02:42:42,760 --> 02:42:46,280
Speaker 1: of those these these PRW camps and he gets the

2786
02:42:46,280 --> 02:42:48,600
Speaker 1: purple heart for his service. Now when when he comes

2787
02:42:48,640 --> 02:42:53,320
Speaker 1: back to the US and he becomes a cop, and

2788
02:42:53,440 --> 02:42:56,040
Speaker 1: within about three years Burge and his white cop buddy

2789
02:42:56,080 --> 02:43:00,359
Speaker 1: start just absolutely beating the crap out of black suspects. UM.

2790
02:43:00,440 --> 02:43:04,920
Speaker 1: One of these prisoners, a man named Anthony Holmes, was

2791
02:43:04,959 --> 02:43:07,800
Speaker 1: repeatedly tortured with electric shocks and almost suffocated a death

2792
02:43:07,840 --> 02:43:10,600
Speaker 1: of a bag put over his head. Holmes was tortured

2793
02:43:10,640 --> 02:43:12,680
Speaker 1: so badly he literally thought he was going to die,

2794
02:43:12,959 --> 02:43:14,600
Speaker 1: so he confessed to a crime he didn't commit. And

2795
02:43:14,680 --> 02:43:17,760
Speaker 1: spent thirty years in prison. Yeah. I actually interviewed one

2796
02:43:17,800 --> 02:43:21,320
Speaker 1: of the people tortured by Burge who was had his

2797
02:43:21,360 --> 02:43:25,360
Speaker 1: testicles electrocuted. Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna get into that. But yeah,

2798
02:43:25,400 --> 02:43:29,000
Speaker 1: it's it's it's horrible. It's it's pretty the worst things

2799
02:43:29,040 --> 02:43:34,840
Speaker 1: I've ever read. Uh. Yeah, And Holmes, this case is

2800
02:43:34,879 --> 02:43:38,640
Speaker 1: particularly grim because so he tells his lawyers that he's

2801
02:43:38,640 --> 02:43:42,240
Speaker 1: been tortured, and his lawyers don't believe him, and so

2802
02:43:42,720 --> 02:43:47,840
Speaker 1: you know, he yeah, he he wented to spending thirty

2803
02:43:47,879 --> 02:43:50,720
Speaker 1: years in prison that he didn't do Um those shocks.

2804
02:43:51,920 --> 02:43:55,959
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so okay, So that they have this box, right,

2805
02:43:56,000 --> 02:43:59,720
Speaker 1: it's his box as a handcret generator. Burge calls at

2806
02:43:59,720 --> 02:44:04,400
Speaker 1: the end word box. Uh. And he just attaches people's

2807
02:44:04,440 --> 02:44:06,320
Speaker 1: like it's just attaches it to people. I wonder what,

2808
02:44:07,360 --> 02:44:09,879
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, it's he's all of these people are

2809
02:44:11,600 --> 02:44:17,920
Speaker 1: so indescribably racist. It's like, yeah, he he just like

2810
02:44:17,959 --> 02:44:20,840
Speaker 1: he keeps this box like on his desk at at

2811
02:44:20,840 --> 02:44:22,720
Speaker 1: the Chicago Police Department. Like it's just on his desk

2812
02:44:22,760 --> 02:44:26,039
Speaker 1: at work. Um. Now. The other thing is notable about

2813
02:44:26,080 --> 02:44:27,680
Speaker 1: this is that he he and the people around him

2814
02:44:27,680 --> 02:44:30,560
Speaker 1: would call just electrocuting people by touching alligator lamps of

2815
02:44:30,640 --> 02:44:32,560
Speaker 1: them and putting nine thousand two under vaults into them.

2816
02:44:32,840 --> 02:44:35,039
Speaker 1: They called it the Vietnamese treatment because I guess what

2817
02:44:35,120 --> 02:44:38,400
Speaker 1: he learned this in Vietnam. Um. Now Burge is so

2818
02:44:38,480 --> 02:44:40,879
Speaker 1: called Midnight Crew, had had an incredibly high rate of

2819
02:44:40,920 --> 02:44:42,920
Speaker 1: solving crimes, and he has an incredibly high rate of

2820
02:44:42,959 --> 02:44:45,600
Speaker 1: quote unquote solving crimes because he's just torturing random black

2821
02:44:45,600 --> 02:44:50,080
Speaker 1: people until they confess um. And you know, it's it's

2822
02:44:50,120 --> 02:44:52,200
Speaker 1: it's not like people don't know he's doing this. There's

2823
02:44:52,240 --> 02:44:55,080
Speaker 1: there's a detective in the seventies who like walks in

2824
02:44:55,240 --> 02:44:58,400
Speaker 1: on Burde torturing a guy, and he goes through superiors

2825
02:44:58,400 --> 02:45:00,920
Speaker 1: and it's like Burgess, Burgess torturing these people, and that

2826
02:45:00,959 --> 02:45:04,160
Speaker 1: detective gets reprimanded and were reprimanded for like reporting the

2827
02:45:04,200 --> 02:45:07,680
Speaker 1: torture and transferred to another area. So Burde gets promoted

2828
02:45:07,720 --> 02:45:09,600
Speaker 1: to sergeant in nineteen seventy seven and then again to

2829
02:45:09,600 --> 02:45:11,560
Speaker 1: lieutenant in nineteen eighty, and he gets he gets put

2830
02:45:11,560 --> 02:45:15,240
Speaker 1: in charge of the newly formed violent Crimes unit, and

2831
02:45:15,600 --> 02:45:18,519
Speaker 1: from from from this position, his rate of terror intensifies,

2832
02:45:19,760 --> 02:45:24,280
Speaker 1: and so so in nineteen eight two, someone shoots two

2833
02:45:24,280 --> 02:45:28,039
Speaker 1: white cops. And you know, this is one of one

2834
02:45:28,080 --> 02:45:30,000
Speaker 1: of the sort of classic police things. Anytime a cop

2835
02:45:30,120 --> 02:45:34,359
Speaker 1: dies the the see the police department just goes fucking ballistic.

2836
02:45:35,640 --> 02:45:39,160
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. And and in this case with with with

2837
02:45:39,240 --> 02:45:42,560
Speaker 1: Burge in charge, he basically turns the entire South Side

2838
02:45:42,560 --> 02:45:45,920
Speaker 1: into what can only be described as a fascist police state. Um,

2839
02:45:46,000 --> 02:45:49,080
Speaker 1: here's this is. This is from the Chicago police torture scandal,

2840
02:45:49,080 --> 02:45:53,760
Speaker 1: illegal and political history. In in Cuney's Law Review, police

2841
02:45:53,840 --> 02:45:56,720
Speaker 1: kicked down doors and terrorized scores of African Americans. And

2842
02:45:56,760 --> 02:46:01,560
Speaker 1: what Jesse Jackson of Operation Push Push and Raynald Robinson

2843
02:46:01,600 --> 02:46:04,640
Speaker 1: if the Afro American policely condemned as quote martial law

2844
02:46:04,720 --> 02:46:08,360
Speaker 1: that smacked of Nazi Germany. Thirteen witnesses were smothered with

2845
02:46:08,400 --> 02:46:11,240
Speaker 1: bags and threatened with bolt cutters and Burgeoness detectives took

2846
02:46:11,240 --> 02:46:13,640
Speaker 1: several young men who they wrongly suspected to be the

2847
02:46:13,720 --> 02:46:17,440
Speaker 1: killers to police headqure horders and tortured them. And I

2848
02:46:17,440 --> 02:46:19,600
Speaker 1: mean they're just like you know that they're buzzing down

2849
02:46:19,600 --> 02:46:21,600
Speaker 1: people's doors or dragging people away out in the middle

2850
02:46:21,600 --> 02:46:23,760
Speaker 1: of the night. They do this for about five days before,

2851
02:46:23,760 --> 02:46:27,240
Speaker 1: they arrest two brothers and who again had nothing to

2852
02:46:27,280 --> 02:46:29,080
Speaker 1: do with this. They just decided that these two were

2853
02:46:29,120 --> 02:46:34,040
Speaker 1: the guys and tortured just the absolute shit out of him. Um.

2854
02:46:34,160 --> 02:46:36,560
Speaker 1: One of the brothers, Andrew Wilson. But before birds even

2855
02:46:36,560 --> 02:46:38,440
Speaker 1: gets there, because this is the everything about birds. It's

2856
02:46:38,480 --> 02:46:41,240
Speaker 1: not just birds, right, like everyone he's like around him,

2857
02:46:41,280 --> 02:46:44,080
Speaker 1: he is also a torturer. It's just birds sort of,

2858
02:46:44,840 --> 02:46:47,400
Speaker 1: you know, but birds the guy like directing a lot

2859
02:46:47,400 --> 02:46:50,480
Speaker 1: of it. So even before he gets there, yea, like

2860
02:46:50,720 --> 02:46:53,440
Speaker 1: Wilson gets like he's burden with a cigarette lighter. He

2861
02:46:53,480 --> 02:46:55,160
Speaker 1: gets strangled with the bag over his head again, and

2862
02:46:55,160 --> 02:46:57,560
Speaker 1: they just like beat him a bunch of times. And

2863
02:46:57,600 --> 02:47:03,240
Speaker 1: then it gets even worse. Um Burgs like, you know,

2864
02:47:03,280 --> 02:47:05,200
Speaker 1: but birds, that's the thing where where he likes he

2865
02:47:05,240 --> 02:47:07,400
Speaker 1: straps him to the to the electric box, right, but

2866
02:47:07,440 --> 02:47:10,200
Speaker 1: he also straps him against the radiator. And you know

2867
02:47:10,240 --> 02:47:12,920
Speaker 1: these are like old Chicago steam radiators, right, if you touch,

2868
02:47:13,000 --> 02:47:15,160
Speaker 1: if you like touch them even briefly, you get burned.

2869
02:47:15,760 --> 02:47:18,400
Speaker 1: And so yeah, he straps into a radiator and every

2870
02:47:18,400 --> 02:47:21,480
Speaker 1: time he like gets shocked, he jerks back into the radiator.

2871
02:47:21,520 --> 02:47:23,560
Speaker 1: It gets burned. Yeah, I have a friend who get

2872
02:47:23,560 --> 02:47:26,039
Speaker 1: a second degree burned dripped from like briefly touching one

2873
02:47:26,040 --> 02:47:29,600
Speaker 1: of those things. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's basically it's

2874
02:47:29,640 --> 02:47:32,640
Speaker 1: basically tying someone to an oven that's turns. Yeah, I

2875
02:47:32,720 --> 02:47:39,039
Speaker 1: mean it's it is breasttaking in humanity on a scale

2876
02:47:39,200 --> 02:47:45,800
Speaker 1: that is yeah, um pop esque. Yeah, yeah, it's it's

2877
02:47:45,840 --> 02:47:49,400
Speaker 1: it's it's real. It's real. Cops shit. Um, it's for sure,

2878
02:47:49,480 --> 02:47:53,480
Speaker 1: real cop shit. Yeah. So here here, here's an interview,

2879
02:47:53,840 --> 02:47:57,600
Speaker 1: uh with Wilson. There's an extractive one from from the

2880
02:47:57,600 --> 02:48:00,680
Speaker 1: book Writings from the World of Policing. Wilson said that

2881
02:48:00,720 --> 02:48:03,400
Speaker 1: Bird cranked the generator, sending nine thousand, two hundred volts

2882
02:48:03,400 --> 02:48:06,279
Speaker 1: of electricity into his body. He put it on my fingers,

2883
02:48:06,280 --> 02:48:08,400
Speaker 1: Wilson explained, one of the clamps on one finger and

2884
02:48:08,400 --> 02:48:10,400
Speaker 1: one of the other finger, and then he kept cranking

2885
02:48:10,400 --> 02:48:12,560
Speaker 1: it and cranking it. And I was hollering and screaming.

2886
02:48:12,800 --> 02:48:15,840
Speaker 1: I was calling for help. My teeth was grinding, flickering

2887
02:48:15,879 --> 02:48:19,120
Speaker 1: in my head. Pain. It hurts, Wilson continued, But it

2888
02:48:19,120 --> 02:48:21,200
Speaker 1: stays in your head. Okay, it stays in your head,

2889
02:48:21,200 --> 02:48:25,680
Speaker 1: and it grinds your teeth. It grinds constantly, grinds constantly.

2890
02:48:25,800 --> 02:48:28,560
Speaker 1: The pain just stays in your head and your teeth

2891
02:48:28,600 --> 02:48:32,360
Speaker 1: cut constantly. Grinds and grinds and grinds and grinds and

2892
02:48:32,400 --> 02:48:37,840
Speaker 1: grinds and grinds. Now Wilson, They do this to Wilson

2893
02:48:37,879 --> 02:48:40,640
Speaker 1: for like a day, and he doesn't confess. He he

2894
02:48:40,680 --> 02:48:43,800
Speaker 1: refuses to confess because he didn't do it, and so

2895
02:48:43,920 --> 02:48:47,040
Speaker 1: he goes to like they bring him in front of

2896
02:48:47,040 --> 02:48:50,600
Speaker 1: a family prosecutor and Wilson tells the prosecutor that he's

2897
02:48:50,600 --> 02:48:53,000
Speaker 1: being tortured, and you know, it's incredibly obvious he's being tortured,

2898
02:48:53,040 --> 02:48:56,119
Speaker 1: like there's just there's marxal Lover's body, like his his

2899
02:48:56,120 --> 02:48:59,879
Speaker 1: face is destroyed. And the prosecutor sends him back to Bird,

2900
02:49:00,160 --> 02:49:04,440
Speaker 1: who tortures him more. And but by the time the

2901
02:49:04,520 --> 02:49:07,520
Speaker 1: Burge is done with him, Wilson is so visibly fucked

2902
02:49:07,560 --> 02:49:11,560
Speaker 1: up that the police lock up keeper like takes a

2903
02:49:11,560 --> 02:49:13,000
Speaker 1: look at it, like takes one look at him and goes,

2904
02:49:13,200 --> 02:49:14,280
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be a part of this and

2905
02:49:14,320 --> 02:49:17,880
Speaker 1: refuses to put him in lock up cook Cook County Jails,

2906
02:49:17,920 --> 02:49:22,000
Speaker 1: Like Director of Medical Services UM sends a letter going

2907
02:49:22,040 --> 02:49:24,320
Speaker 1: like this man was tortured to the police. We found

2908
02:49:24,320 --> 02:49:26,760
Speaker 1: a human being. Yeah, yeah, well you know, and it's

2909
02:49:26,800 --> 02:49:30,360
Speaker 1: like every one once every like, I don't know, maybe

2910
02:49:30,400 --> 02:49:33,039
Speaker 1: like a hundred pages of reading about this, you find

2911
02:49:33,120 --> 02:49:36,760
Speaker 1: one person who is a normal human being. Unfortunately, the

2912
02:49:36,760 --> 02:49:40,640
Speaker 1: state's attorney, instead of prosecuting Burge for again attaching attaching

2913
02:49:40,640 --> 02:49:42,760
Speaker 1: a man's balls to a hand create generator and then

2914
02:49:42,760 --> 02:49:47,000
Speaker 1: electrocuting him. Uh, the state prosecutor and the police superintendent

2915
02:49:47,120 --> 02:49:52,240
Speaker 1: both publicly congratulate Birds for his work. Yeah, and Andrew Wilson,

2916
02:49:52,240 --> 02:49:54,600
Speaker 1: mean while died in prison in two thousand seven, because

2917
02:49:55,600 --> 02:50:04,879
Speaker 1: this world is just the worst. Yeah. Now, you might

2918
02:50:04,920 --> 02:50:07,240
Speaker 1: be asking yourself, how does he get away with this?

2919
02:50:07,400 --> 02:50:10,120
Speaker 1: And the answer is that the CPD is complicit in

2920
02:50:10,120 --> 02:50:13,520
Speaker 1: burges torture at literally every level. Every attempt to stop

2921
02:50:13,520 --> 02:50:16,480
Speaker 1: Burge is derailed directly by the departments. And not only

2922
02:50:16,560 --> 02:50:19,440
Speaker 1: is he not stopped, he's repeatedly praised and promoted for

2923
02:50:19,480 --> 02:50:26,400
Speaker 1: his actions. And yeah, I mean that's how it goes. Yep,

2924
02:50:26,480 --> 02:50:31,800
Speaker 1: It's it's great, it's it's it's an institutionalized system of torture,

2925
02:50:31,879 --> 02:50:35,080
Speaker 1: rape and murder. That yeah, it's like that we have

2926
02:50:35,160 --> 02:50:39,039
Speaker 1: us a little abbo grade right at home, but yeah,

2927
02:50:39,160 --> 02:50:41,400
Speaker 1: I don't worry. Well, well, I guess we won't actually

2928
02:50:41,400 --> 02:50:43,760
Speaker 1: get to with grades specifically, but I can, I can do,

2929
02:50:43,800 --> 02:50:45,320
Speaker 1: I can I can do an upgrade tie in at

2930
02:50:45,320 --> 02:50:50,800
Speaker 1: the end of this part. So the CPD has something

2931
02:50:50,800 --> 02:50:52,800
Speaker 1: they call the Code of Silence, and we'll talk about

2932
02:50:52,920 --> 02:50:56,360
Speaker 1: this more later, but basically, the core of the code

2933
02:50:56,360 --> 02:50:59,400
Speaker 1: of Silence is that just no matter what crimes, what atrocities,

2934
02:50:59,440 --> 02:51:01,400
Speaker 1: which is in him in Pig Horrors, you see cops

2935
02:51:01,400 --> 02:51:05,440
Speaker 1: committing you, stay silent. Now this code you know, it's

2936
02:51:05,480 --> 02:51:07,600
Speaker 1: it's it's a code that everyone sort of knows right

2937
02:51:07,600 --> 02:51:12,040
Speaker 1: in the police, but it's also directly enforced um and

2938
02:51:12,160 --> 02:51:14,080
Speaker 1: and it's enforced by the stuff Burge would you do,

2939
02:51:14,280 --> 02:51:16,680
Speaker 1: like just to other cops, Like he would do things

2940
02:51:16,680 --> 02:51:18,640
Speaker 1: like if there was a cop who was like unhappy

2941
02:51:18,680 --> 02:51:20,879
Speaker 1: with him, he would like walk up behind them when

2942
02:51:20,879 --> 02:51:22,640
Speaker 1: they're opening a file cabinet and point a gun at

2943
02:51:22,680 --> 02:51:25,160
Speaker 1: their head and then go like bang and then do

2944
02:51:25,240 --> 02:51:27,440
Speaker 1: this like a thing that I can really only describe

2945
02:51:27,440 --> 02:51:30,360
Speaker 1: as a supervillain monologue about how like the projects are

2946
02:51:30,400 --> 02:51:34,400
Speaker 1: a dangerous place, maybe you're gonna turn up dead. It's

2947
02:51:34,879 --> 02:51:37,400
Speaker 1: he also he has these street files that he keeps

2948
02:51:37,440 --> 02:51:41,760
Speaker 1: on like other cops families so that if another cop

2949
02:51:41,879 --> 02:51:44,000
Speaker 1: like goes after him, he can have their family arrested

2950
02:51:44,000 --> 02:51:49,720
Speaker 1: and then plant evidence on them. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah,

2951
02:51:48,840 --> 02:51:51,640
Speaker 1: It's it's like, you know, like in a certain like

2952
02:51:51,680 --> 02:51:55,160
Speaker 1: he's doing this to other cops, and it's like, well, okay,

2953
02:51:55,200 --> 02:51:59,040
Speaker 1: like you know what, like what what possible? Like system

2954
02:51:59,120 --> 02:52:02,680
Speaker 1: of of of accountability quote on court or police reform

2955
02:52:02,879 --> 02:52:04,720
Speaker 1: is like ever going to do anything to a guy

2956
02:52:04,760 --> 02:52:09,760
Speaker 1: who will just do this two cops like and you know,

2957
02:52:10,000 --> 02:52:12,160
Speaker 1: with the CPD actively backing him, there's there's nothing that

2958
02:52:12,160 --> 02:52:14,560
Speaker 1: can stop Burge. And I should mention here that there's

2959
02:52:14,600 --> 02:52:18,600
Speaker 1: persistent rumors that Burge as a klansmen um I I

2960
02:52:18,640 --> 02:52:21,840
Speaker 1: couldn't find like firm confirmation of it. He's he's certainly

2961
02:52:21,920 --> 02:52:23,960
Speaker 1: racist enough, but but I think, yeah, but like why

2962
02:52:23,959 --> 02:52:26,640
Speaker 1: would he why would he spend like That's that feels

2963
02:52:26,680 --> 02:52:29,039
Speaker 1: like almost he would be like why would I waste

2964
02:52:29,040 --> 02:52:32,119
Speaker 1: my time doing that like talking about being racist when

2965
02:52:32,120 --> 02:52:34,720
Speaker 1: I can go out and torture people because I'm a

2966
02:52:34,800 --> 02:52:38,720
Speaker 1: racist every day? Like the clan already got it going on. Yeah,

2967
02:52:38,760 --> 02:52:41,439
Speaker 1: And I think it's sometimes like, yeah, the question is immaterial.

2968
02:52:41,480 --> 02:52:43,640
Speaker 1: He is a member of the Chicago Police Department and

2969
02:52:43,800 --> 02:52:46,160
Speaker 1: organization is systematic racial terror, the likes of which the

2970
02:52:46,200 --> 02:52:50,080
Speaker 1: modern clan can only dream of. Yeah that's whatever. Yeah, Yeah,

2971
02:52:50,120 --> 02:52:53,400
Speaker 1: it's like who cares he's he's he's jumped burge. Honestly,

2972
02:52:53,400 --> 02:52:55,640
Speaker 1: if he were spending time at clan matings at least

2973
02:52:55,640 --> 02:53:01,879
Speaker 1: he wouldn't be torturing people during the time. Yeah, it's yeah,

2974
02:53:02,120 --> 02:53:05,600
Speaker 1: love love your police. When if he was a klansman

2975
02:53:05,640 --> 02:53:07,920
Speaker 1: that might have been slightly better. I mean, that's the

2976
02:53:07,959 --> 02:53:10,680
Speaker 1: big thing with like this type of like liberal response

2977
02:53:10,720 --> 02:53:13,560
Speaker 1: to the type of extremism. It's like they only view

2978
02:53:13,600 --> 02:53:16,400
Speaker 1: it as a problem if you're like explicitly part of this,

2979
02:53:16,879 --> 02:53:20,640
Speaker 1: you know, Like it's like very obvious to everyone white

2980
02:53:20,680 --> 02:53:23,600
Speaker 1: nationalist group. Right, they can watch a cop do all

2981
02:53:23,640 --> 02:53:25,840
Speaker 1: these horrible things. It's fine because that's just a cop.

2982
02:53:26,040 --> 02:53:28,680
Speaker 1: But if he's a clan member, then that's a problem.

2983
02:53:29,280 --> 02:53:32,200
Speaker 1: Like they can excuse all this horrible torture and not

2984
02:53:32,280 --> 02:53:34,840
Speaker 1: really be concerned about it. But if but if he

2985
02:53:34,879 --> 02:53:38,360
Speaker 1: had a robots closet, then it's suddenly this big issue.

2986
02:53:38,400 --> 02:53:40,720
Speaker 1: It's like, no, like the issue is that he was

2987
02:53:40,760 --> 02:53:43,400
Speaker 1: doing all this torture anyway, and he doesn't like this.

2988
02:53:43,840 --> 02:53:47,879
Speaker 1: You don't need to focus on like just the like

2989
02:53:48,040 --> 02:53:52,600
Speaker 1: just that identity, like that weird identity aspect of it. Yeah,

2990
02:53:52,680 --> 02:53:56,560
Speaker 1: the the clan is old enough, and where's a uniform

2991
02:53:56,600 --> 02:53:59,760
Speaker 1: that is distinct enough that everybody recognizes is it as racist?

2992
02:54:00,040 --> 02:54:04,360
Speaker 1: And though the Chicago Police Department is actually much more

2993
02:54:04,400 --> 02:54:07,800
Speaker 1: of a threat in terms of racism than the clan today,

2994
02:54:08,120 --> 02:54:10,560
Speaker 1: uh and was at that point in time. But you know,

2995
02:54:10,600 --> 02:54:13,280
Speaker 1: they're the cops. And if you're a suburban white liberal,

2996
02:54:13,440 --> 02:54:16,160
Speaker 1: they're there too, you know, help help keep your lawn

2997
02:54:16,200 --> 02:54:18,600
Speaker 1: safe or whatever. Um, So you don't you don't see

2998
02:54:18,640 --> 02:54:23,039
Speaker 1: them as the same inherently racial organization exactly, even though

2999
02:54:23,040 --> 02:54:25,560
Speaker 1: they are. Yeah, and even though I mean they're dragging

3000
02:54:25,560 --> 02:54:29,039
Speaker 1: people out of their homes and like just electrocuting them,

3001
02:54:29,480 --> 02:54:32,600
Speaker 1: like this is you know, this is this something also

3002
02:54:32,680 --> 02:54:34,280
Speaker 1: that I was very annoyed about when I was reading

3003
02:54:34,280 --> 02:54:36,400
Speaker 1: this was like you read a lot of this stuff

3004
02:54:36,440 --> 02:54:38,200
Speaker 1: and then and you'll you'll get descriptions of it that

3005
02:54:38,200 --> 02:54:40,800
Speaker 1: are like, ah, this is something that like only happens

3006
02:54:40,800 --> 02:54:42,879
Speaker 1: in the pressure regimes like Kazakhstan, and it's like, have

3007
02:54:43,040 --> 02:54:45,920
Speaker 1: you read anything about picture of the US like this

3008
02:54:46,200 --> 02:54:49,720
Speaker 1: is like yeah, like we we have the officers over

3009
02:54:49,760 --> 02:54:52,600
Speaker 1: to other countries that often teach their police how to

3010
02:54:52,640 --> 02:54:55,959
Speaker 1: do ship like this that happens. But when you were

3011
02:54:56,000 --> 02:54:58,480
Speaker 1: describing a whole bunch of stuff in the past, like

3012
02:54:58,680 --> 02:55:00,959
Speaker 1: you know, twenty minutes, I was thinking in my head

3013
02:55:01,000 --> 02:55:03,959
Speaker 1: and like, oh, yeah, this is just like stormtrooper ship.

3014
02:55:04,080 --> 02:55:06,400
Speaker 1: But the thing is, it isn't like this just is

3015
02:55:06,480 --> 02:55:09,680
Speaker 1: cops shit, and like, like the thing like the fact

3016
02:55:09,680 --> 02:55:13,040
Speaker 1: that like elevating it in my brain to it being

3017
02:55:13,080 --> 02:55:15,640
Speaker 1: like something other than cops is incorrect. You know, like

3018
02:55:15,720 --> 02:55:19,160
Speaker 1: this just is police stuff. It's not it's not necessarily

3019
02:55:19,160 --> 02:55:22,080
Speaker 1: stormtrooper ship. It's just is police ship. And the fact

3020
02:55:22,120 --> 02:55:24,440
Speaker 1: that those things are so synonymous that should be the

3021
02:55:24,440 --> 02:55:27,800
Speaker 1: part that's actually like upsetting is that yeah, it's actually

3022
02:55:27,840 --> 02:55:31,560
Speaker 1: there is really no difference and you shouldn't necessarily resort

3023
02:55:31,640 --> 02:55:34,440
Speaker 1: to calling it stormtrooper stuff because it is just what

3024
02:55:34,480 --> 02:55:37,560
Speaker 1: the police do all the time. There's this whole model

3025
02:55:37,600 --> 02:55:39,480
Speaker 1: you see people talking about it where they talk about

3026
02:55:39,520 --> 02:55:43,000
Speaker 1: like like the police are using unnecessary force and like

3027
02:55:43,040 --> 02:55:45,240
Speaker 1: they're there there there's like a certain threshold where if

3028
02:55:45,240 --> 02:55:48,240
Speaker 1: you go past it, like you know, sort of like

3029
02:55:48,240 --> 02:55:49,920
Speaker 1: like even you know, like I'm Gonna'm gonna read like

3030
02:55:49,920 --> 02:55:52,240
Speaker 1: that Birch has a lot of like when he winds

3031
02:55:52,280 --> 02:55:54,920
Speaker 1: up in court, like the judges look at this and

3032
02:55:54,920 --> 02:55:56,720
Speaker 1: the are like, oh my god, this is unacceptable. How

3033
02:55:56,720 --> 02:55:59,320
Speaker 1: could this have happened? And you know, you get some

3034
02:55:59,360 --> 02:56:01,880
Speaker 1: good descriptions of it. I'm gonna this is a district

3035
02:56:01,920 --> 02:56:04,160
Speaker 1: judge court describing what Burge is doing. In the early eighties,

3036
02:56:04,760 --> 02:56:07,280
Speaker 1: there existed, in two in the City of Chicago, a

3037
02:56:07,360 --> 02:56:10,440
Speaker 1: de facto policy practice and or customer of Chicago police

3038
02:56:10,440 --> 02:56:15,360
Speaker 1: officers exacting unconstitutional revenge and punishment against persons who they

3039
02:56:15,360 --> 02:56:18,359
Speaker 1: alleged had killed or injured a fellow officer. This revenge

3040
02:56:18,360 --> 02:56:22,359
Speaker 1: and punishment included beating, kicking, torturing, shooting, and or executing

3041
02:56:22,400 --> 02:56:24,440
Speaker 1: such a person for the purpose of inflicting pain, to

3042
02:56:24,480 --> 02:56:27,080
Speaker 1: injury and punishment on that person, and also for the

3043
02:56:27,120 --> 02:56:30,160
Speaker 1: purpose of forcing that person to make it. Coupled tory

3044
02:56:30,240 --> 02:56:38,800
Speaker 1: statements exculpatory yeahculptor yeah, inculpatory yeah yeah yeah. You know,

3045
02:56:38,879 --> 02:56:40,879
Speaker 1: and you you get stuff like there's there's there's an

3046
02:56:40,879 --> 02:56:43,520
Speaker 1: FBI report than from the Chagol Tepem. I'm going to

3047
02:56:43,600 --> 02:56:48,400
Speaker 1: read because it's he left one bullet in the center

3048
02:56:48,520 --> 02:56:51,080
Speaker 1: and the cylinder and spun it. A report quoted the

3049
02:56:51,120 --> 02:56:54,720
Speaker 1: inmate is saying about Burge in the nineteen incident. He

3050
02:56:54,840 --> 02:56:59,800
Speaker 1: then said, you talk, will blow your black EXPELTI presumably

3051
02:56:59,800 --> 02:57:03,240
Speaker 1: the end word brains out. Bergs then got up from

3052
02:57:03,240 --> 02:57:05,560
Speaker 1: his desk, walked over to the inmate, put the muzzle

3053
02:57:05,560 --> 02:57:07,800
Speaker 1: of the revolver against the center of the inmate's forehead

3054
02:57:07,840 --> 02:57:11,119
Speaker 1: and pulled the trigger. He spun the cylinder and placed

3055
02:57:11,160 --> 02:57:16,440
Speaker 1: it back against his forehead and pulled the trigger again. So, yeah,

3056
02:57:16,520 --> 02:57:21,000
Speaker 1: he's just playing Russian Roulette with people. Like he's playing it.

3057
02:57:21,120 --> 02:57:26,520
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think. Yeah, yeah, well he's pulling

3058
02:57:26,560 --> 02:57:28,480
Speaker 1: up one in the sixth chance of murdering them. They

3059
02:57:28,520 --> 02:57:33,920
Speaker 1: are in terror. Uh. There's also a lot of like

3060
02:57:34,480 --> 02:57:40,879
Speaker 1: he does like you sexually abuses people. He like after testicles. Yeah,

3061
02:57:41,000 --> 02:57:43,280
Speaker 1: he he like he electrocuted Like well, I mean he's

3062
02:57:43,280 --> 02:57:48,080
Speaker 1: also like is like like basically like raping people. Um,

3063
02:57:48,160 --> 02:57:51,440
Speaker 1: he like electrocut is a thirteen year old child. And

3064
02:57:51,480 --> 02:57:56,840
Speaker 1: you know this is like it's it's it's just so

3065
02:57:57,000 --> 02:57:59,520
Speaker 1: bleak that like, I mean, there's so there's a very

3066
02:57:59,520 --> 02:58:01,680
Speaker 1: famous art club about this by Chicago Journalist's called the

3067
02:58:01,720 --> 02:58:05,520
Speaker 1: House of Screams. But you know, like like Burge isn't

3068
02:58:05,520 --> 02:58:08,000
Speaker 1: the only guy doing this, Like one of his loyalists

3069
02:58:08,000 --> 02:58:11,280
Speaker 1: is lieutenant, Like is a guy named Byron. He's like

3070
02:58:11,320 --> 02:58:13,920
Speaker 1: in charge of the midnight shift at that the area

3071
02:58:13,959 --> 02:58:17,960
Speaker 1: true violent crimes. And they become known internally as burgess

3072
02:58:17,959 --> 02:58:20,640
Speaker 1: ask kickers at the A team because this is just

3073
02:58:21,000 --> 02:58:28,600
Speaker 1: who these people are culturally, and yeah, sure sure, but yeah, um,

3074
02:58:28,760 --> 02:58:33,360
Speaker 1: these guys start uh like putting like guns and prisoners mouths.

3075
02:58:34,120 --> 02:58:35,440
Speaker 1: But they have one thing where they they stick a

3076
02:58:35,480 --> 02:58:37,480
Speaker 1: shotgun in a guy's mouth and they pull the trigger

3077
02:58:37,520 --> 02:58:39,160
Speaker 1: and it's not loaded. But there's like they keep doing

3078
02:58:39,200 --> 02:58:43,080
Speaker 1: this thing. Yeah, it's it's that is by the way,

3079
02:58:43,320 --> 02:58:47,000
Speaker 1: illegal in international law, like internationally, that is a war

3080
02:58:47,080 --> 02:58:50,880
Speaker 1: crime if you're military to specifically, fake executions are a

3081
02:58:51,000 --> 02:58:54,519
Speaker 1: type of torture and a a war crime under international

3082
02:58:54,600 --> 02:58:58,520
Speaker 1: law based on treaties the United States is signed. Yeah,

3083
02:58:58,600 --> 02:59:01,160
Speaker 1: and and Byron also so if he does that a lot,

3084
02:59:01,200 --> 02:59:03,800
Speaker 1: and then that same guy, the same guy the shotgun

3085
02:59:03,840 --> 02:59:06,680
Speaker 1: thing too, he apparently didn't have the box, so he

3086
02:59:06,760 --> 02:59:08,440
Speaker 1: stripped the dude and shocked his balls with a cattle

3087
02:59:08,480 --> 02:59:11,280
Speaker 1: prod And this is the guy who Lorry Lightfoot sent

3088
02:59:11,360 --> 02:59:14,160
Speaker 1: her number two lawyer to defend in court by arguing

3089
02:59:14,200 --> 02:59:20,280
Speaker 1: the torture it never happens. Yeah, that's that's that's that's ability. Yep,

3090
02:59:20,840 --> 02:59:24,840
Speaker 1: that's the mayor of my city now life Lightfoot. Light

3091
02:59:24,879 --> 02:59:28,120
Speaker 1: Foot is on the record as saying that birds tortured

3092
02:59:28,240 --> 02:59:30,960
Speaker 1: over a hundred people. But once it came to you know,

3093
02:59:31,080 --> 02:59:33,400
Speaker 1: actually putting up or shutting up, she just goes to

3094
02:59:33,440 --> 02:59:35,600
Speaker 1: back for the cops. And if this happens in Chicago,

3095
02:59:36,040 --> 02:59:38,160
Speaker 1: just so many times with people who used to be

3096
02:59:38,200 --> 02:59:40,800
Speaker 1: like who you know who who in the moment you're like, oh,

3097
02:59:40,840 --> 02:59:43,000
Speaker 1: bird did torture. We need to reform the police. And

3098
02:59:43,080 --> 02:59:44,959
Speaker 1: it's you know, the when they get into power, they

3099
02:59:45,000 --> 02:59:47,240
Speaker 1: do this stuff. I mean there there's there's a bunch

3100
02:59:47,280 --> 02:59:51,600
Speaker 1: of like incredibly weird stuff that happens here. Like so

3101
02:59:53,080 --> 02:59:55,680
Speaker 1: that the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals at one point

3102
02:59:55,440 --> 02:59:59,800
Speaker 1: saul A like they saw a case over whether one

3103
03:00:00,080 --> 03:00:03,039
Speaker 1: and dollar settlement with a torture victim was fair and

3104
03:00:03,480 --> 03:00:08,640
Speaker 1: christ Yeah, in court it's like you read the transcas

3105
03:00:08,800 --> 03:00:11,240
Speaker 1: and it's like it's it's the most brutal demolishing of

3106
03:00:11,280 --> 03:00:16,120
Speaker 1: like a state's argument I've ever seen, Like they're they're,

3107
03:00:16,120 --> 03:00:18,400
Speaker 1: they're just like in court asking them like okay, like

3108
03:00:18,440 --> 03:00:20,800
Speaker 1: we're we're, we're This person's judge is supposed to have

3109
03:00:21,120 --> 03:00:24,240
Speaker 1: like known in court that he was also torturing other people,

3110
03:00:24,360 --> 03:00:28,520
Speaker 1: and like it's you know, the courts just like you know,

3111
03:00:28,520 --> 03:00:30,800
Speaker 1: they're turning them apart. And then when it comes time

3112
03:00:30,840 --> 03:00:33,879
Speaker 1: to decide the case, uh, the court tosses the case

3113
03:00:33,920 --> 03:00:39,400
Speaker 1: out inside with the state. Wow. Yeah, I don't know

3114
03:00:39,440 --> 03:00:46,280
Speaker 1: what's going on there. It's awful. Yep, this topic. I

3115
03:00:46,280 --> 03:00:48,720
Speaker 1: mean that that is the thing about the way the

3116
03:00:48,760 --> 03:00:51,400
Speaker 1: whole system works, which is that, you know, the police

3117
03:00:51,520 --> 03:00:54,920
Speaker 1: do horrific things. In Chicago, they torture, in Los Angeles,

3118
03:00:55,040 --> 03:00:56,960
Speaker 1: they have Nazi gangs. You know, there's a bunch of

3119
03:00:57,000 --> 03:00:59,800
Speaker 1: different horrible ship the police do. And then at some

3120
03:00:59,800 --> 03:01:02,320
Speaker 1: point point the FBI and the Justice Department come in

3121
03:01:02,400 --> 03:01:07,000
Speaker 1: and they provide incredibly They send in very talented investigators

3122
03:01:07,000 --> 03:01:09,960
Speaker 1: who produced incredibly detailed lists of all of the things

3123
03:01:10,000 --> 03:01:12,400
Speaker 1: that are being done. And then the court says, well,

3124
03:01:12,480 --> 03:01:15,240
Speaker 1: but nobody's gonna get punished, or maybe this one guy

3125
03:01:15,280 --> 03:01:17,400
Speaker 1: will get punished and then we'll go on back to

3126
03:01:17,440 --> 03:01:20,000
Speaker 1: doing things and that the system is supposed to work,

3127
03:01:20,160 --> 03:01:22,000
Speaker 1: although we're we're going to read a story about the

3128
03:01:22,040 --> 03:01:26,320
Speaker 1: FBI not doing that in the next episode. So yeah, yeah,

3129
03:01:26,360 --> 03:01:29,400
Speaker 1: I mean they don't know. We don't always get a report. Yeah,

3130
03:01:29,600 --> 03:01:33,199
Speaker 1: I just I have become increased, Like it's very frustrating

3131
03:01:33,240 --> 03:01:36,680
Speaker 1: because having these FBI reports on police abuses um is

3132
03:01:36,760 --> 03:01:39,160
Speaker 1: useful again for talking to liberals because they tend to

3133
03:01:39,160 --> 03:01:42,280
Speaker 1: trust the FBI. But it's also like, boy, I've read

3134
03:01:42,320 --> 03:01:44,879
Speaker 1: a lot of detailed FBI reports about how bad police

3135
03:01:44,920 --> 03:01:47,199
Speaker 1: departments are, and it seems like nothing ever gets done.

3136
03:01:47,520 --> 03:01:49,440
Speaker 1: Like it seems like they just write a thing saying yeah,

3137
03:01:49,440 --> 03:01:54,600
Speaker 1: it's bad, and then everything continues forever and it's you know,

3138
03:01:55,040 --> 03:01:59,840
Speaker 1: this this case, Like so the reason we even know

3139
03:02:00,000 --> 03:02:02,280
Speaker 1: any of this is through what I like, what I

3140
03:02:02,280 --> 03:02:06,000
Speaker 1: will say, like the a genuinely heroic, decades long campaign

3141
03:02:06,040 --> 03:02:07,960
Speaker 1: run by the People's Law Office on behalf of birde

3142
03:02:08,040 --> 03:02:10,959
Speaker 1: victims and these people, like they say people's lives like

3143
03:02:11,000 --> 03:02:14,080
Speaker 1: that there are people who birdge tortured, who ended up

3144
03:02:14,120 --> 03:02:17,240
Speaker 1: on death row for it, and you know, like this

3145
03:02:17,240 --> 03:02:19,160
Speaker 1: stuff is so bad that when it comes out, the

3146
03:02:19,160 --> 03:02:21,880
Speaker 1: Supreme Court does a ruling on it, and it like

3147
03:02:22,000 --> 03:02:24,480
Speaker 1: establishes new precedents for like how people can prove they've

3148
03:02:24,520 --> 03:02:27,600
Speaker 1: been tortured. Like you know, it's so bad that like

3149
03:02:27,959 --> 03:02:30,280
Speaker 1: Illinois stops running the death pet like we had the

3150
03:02:30,320 --> 03:02:32,080
Speaker 1: death penalty and like we still tend to get ethic

3151
03:02:32,120 --> 03:02:33,840
Speaker 1: have it, but like we just stopped doing it, Like

3152
03:02:33,879 --> 03:02:38,640
Speaker 1: we stopped we stopped executing people because like a Republican governor,

3153
03:02:39,320 --> 03:02:42,560
Speaker 1: like on air, gave a giant thing about how this

3154
03:02:42,560 --> 03:02:47,160
Speaker 1: system was broken and like this is this is John Ryan, right,

3155
03:02:47,200 --> 03:02:50,320
Speaker 1: like this is a man who like he he is

3156
03:02:50,360 --> 03:02:51,920
Speaker 1: like this is a man who was corrupted by the

3157
03:02:51,959 --> 03:02:55,440
Speaker 1: standards of of of an Illinois politician. And even he

3158
03:02:55,600 --> 03:02:58,680
Speaker 1: like on the air, is like yeah, this is like

3159
03:02:58,840 --> 03:03:00,640
Speaker 1: you know that this is this is broken. He he

3160
03:03:00,720 --> 03:03:05,280
Speaker 1: pardons some Burge victims and in nine three, faced with

3161
03:03:05,360 --> 03:03:08,640
Speaker 1: just irrefutable evidence of torture and ruling multiple higher ports

3162
03:03:08,879 --> 03:03:13,240
Speaker 1: higher courts, the Police Board finally released a report, although

3163
03:03:13,280 --> 03:03:16,280
Speaker 1: the report also doesn't call it torture and is a

3164
03:03:16,320 --> 03:03:19,520
Speaker 1: disaster that they finally have Burge fired and some of

3165
03:03:19,560 --> 03:03:21,840
Speaker 1: his colleagues who were also torturing people get suspended for

3166
03:03:21,879 --> 03:03:26,400
Speaker 1: fifteen months, but Burge isn't prosecuted for, you know, the

3167
03:03:26,440 --> 03:03:29,000
Speaker 1: crimes that we have multiple reports of him doing until

3168
03:03:29,040 --> 03:03:33,520
Speaker 1: two after the victims literally go to the United Nations

3169
03:03:34,480 --> 03:03:36,760
Speaker 1: with a campaign and go in front of the United

3170
03:03:36,840 --> 03:03:38,600
Speaker 1: Nations and talk about how they are being systemically tortured

3171
03:03:38,600 --> 03:03:41,480
Speaker 1: by the Chicago Police Department. But of course by two ten,

3172
03:03:41,520 --> 03:03:43,520
Speaker 1: the statute of limitations on his crimes had run out,

3173
03:03:43,640 --> 03:03:46,039
Speaker 1: so uh, he winds up going to jail for three

3174
03:03:46,920 --> 03:03:49,800
Speaker 1: stations on torture. Yeah, that's definitely one of the ones

3175
03:03:49,800 --> 03:03:52,240
Speaker 1: we should have a cap Yeah, definitely. It's great. It's

3176
03:03:52,280 --> 03:03:54,880
Speaker 1: it's it's a great system. Um. And I'm going to

3177
03:03:54,920 --> 03:03:57,160
Speaker 1: read something from the Chocolate Tribune that was a description

3178
03:03:57,240 --> 03:04:00,720
Speaker 1: of of this. Uh quote. While the jury was out, Burge,

3179
03:04:00,760 --> 03:04:03,840
Speaker 1: still unrepentant, allegedly asked the courtroom reserve or whether you

3180
03:04:03,879 --> 03:04:08,360
Speaker 1: thought the jury would quote believe a bunch of n words. Wow, dye,

3181
03:04:09,520 --> 03:04:13,920
Speaker 1: it's good. Burge Bridge tortured at least a hundred and

3182
03:04:13,920 --> 03:04:16,480
Speaker 1: twenty five people. That's almost certainly an under account. Undred

3183
03:04:16,520 --> 03:04:19,000
Speaker 1: twenty five is the number of people who we have

3184
03:04:19,040 --> 03:04:21,520
Speaker 1: who have come forward. A lot of those people probably

3185
03:04:21,520 --> 03:04:26,080
Speaker 1: have like people he tortured have probably died by now. Um, yeah,

3186
03:04:26,120 --> 03:04:28,240
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, you'll never will never get an accurate

3187
03:04:28,240 --> 03:04:30,959
Speaker 1: account of all the people who were Yeah, and and

3188
03:04:31,240 --> 03:04:33,360
Speaker 1: Burge died a freeman and has never served a day

3189
03:04:33,520 --> 03:04:37,039
Speaker 1: for his actual crimes. Now, Burge and his crew are

3190
03:04:37,040 --> 03:04:40,000
Speaker 1: the most famous of the eighties and seventies and eighties torturers,

3191
03:04:40,000 --> 03:04:42,800
Speaker 1: but they're by no means the only one. And we're

3192
03:04:42,800 --> 03:04:45,920
Speaker 1: gonna talk about one more in this torture section. Uh

3193
03:04:46,120 --> 03:04:49,920
Speaker 1: if you did you know Richard Zuli? Mm hmm okay,

3194
03:04:49,920 --> 03:04:52,600
Speaker 1: so yeah, Zuli's Zulie is the one that people tend

3195
03:04:52,640 --> 03:04:55,360
Speaker 1: not to know. M Zuli was also a Vietnam War vet.

3196
03:04:55,640 --> 03:04:59,400
Speaker 1: He becomes a detective in nine. Um, what's interesting about him?

3197
03:04:59,560 --> 03:05:02,760
Speaker 1: Zuli is never part of Burgess Candre Right Burgess Cadres

3198
03:05:02,879 --> 03:05:04,920
Speaker 1: working out Verrea too. They're on the south Side. They're

3199
03:05:04,959 --> 03:05:08,040
Speaker 1: in an overwhelmingly black part of the south Side. Zuli

3200
03:05:08,080 --> 03:05:10,320
Speaker 1: works in areas three and six on the north side.

3201
03:05:11,000 --> 03:05:12,480
Speaker 1: You know what what what what I want need to

3202
03:05:12,480 --> 03:05:14,480
Speaker 1: mention off the bat is that Zuli is no less

3203
03:05:14,560 --> 03:05:17,000
Speaker 1: racist than Burge is. He wants to rested a black

3204
03:05:17,080 --> 03:05:19,560
Speaker 1: dude for just like having a car and wearing a

3205
03:05:19,640 --> 03:05:23,519
Speaker 1: watch and like like those are both felonies in the

3206
03:05:23,600 --> 03:05:26,240
Speaker 1: city of Chicago. Right, well, if you famously never know

3207
03:05:26,280 --> 03:05:29,480
Speaker 1: what time it is because you're a law abiding citizen. Yeah,

3208
03:05:29,520 --> 03:05:32,800
Speaker 1: well law abidings isn't. And also don't be black while

3209
03:05:32,840 --> 03:05:37,840
Speaker 1: doing this because yeah, he throws him in a cell. Yeah,

3210
03:05:38,040 --> 03:05:41,560
Speaker 1: well it gets it gets you. Zuli screaming no end

3211
03:05:41,600 --> 03:05:45,199
Speaker 1: word is supposed to live like this? Oh boy, oh boy,

3212
03:05:46,360 --> 03:05:50,600
Speaker 1: it's you know we we people like talk about cops

3213
03:05:51,000 --> 03:05:53,920
Speaker 1: doing stuff for that reason, but it's it's, you know,

3214
03:05:54,480 --> 03:05:57,720
Speaker 1: they're so racist. Just get a direct quote. Yeah, Like

3215
03:05:58,520 --> 03:06:03,320
Speaker 1: I can't emphasize it, Like they're just they're so racist.

3216
03:06:03,400 --> 03:06:06,600
Speaker 1: It's like ingrained into the d like the cop d NA. Yeah,

3217
03:06:06,600 --> 03:06:09,279
Speaker 1: they're just saying the loud part loud. Yeah, like they're

3218
03:06:09,320 --> 03:06:11,320
Speaker 1: just scribby like that. We're going to do with One

3219
03:06:11,320 --> 03:06:13,040
Speaker 1: of the things in the next episode is the cops

3220
03:06:13,040 --> 03:06:15,160
Speaker 1: will just drive around like blasting the end. We're out

3221
03:06:15,160 --> 03:06:21,000
Speaker 1: of their out of their like cops stereos because Christ. Yeah, now,

3222
03:06:21,320 --> 03:06:23,280
Speaker 1: Zuli in a lot of ways is a more modern

3223
03:06:23,320 --> 03:06:25,880
Speaker 1: torture than birdges. You know, bird is very big on

3224
03:06:25,959 --> 03:06:28,560
Speaker 1: your like overt physical violence, right, you're beating. Your execution

3225
03:06:28,560 --> 03:06:31,400
Speaker 1: is suffocation. The problem with these techniques from a torture

3226
03:06:31,400 --> 03:06:34,400
Speaker 1: of perspectives that they leave incredibly obvious marks. And you know,

3227
03:06:34,640 --> 03:06:36,800
Speaker 1: this is how birde goes down, right, It's it's too

3228
03:06:36,840 --> 03:06:38,720
Speaker 1: obvious what he's doing. There are people who can just

3229
03:06:38,760 --> 03:06:40,720
Speaker 1: like show up to a court and be like, hey,

3230
03:06:40,800 --> 03:06:43,480
Speaker 1: look at my neck, like here are all these burns.

3231
03:06:44,360 --> 03:06:46,640
Speaker 1: Zuli is much smarter about it. Um, you know she

3232
03:06:46,680 --> 03:06:48,760
Speaker 1: I mean, she does some beatings because cops are literally

3233
03:06:48,800 --> 03:06:50,800
Speaker 1: animals and are incapable of resisting the urge to beat

3234
03:06:50,800 --> 03:06:52,640
Speaker 1: the living share of anyone who falls into their grasp.

3235
03:06:53,280 --> 03:06:56,360
Speaker 1: But you know, mostly what he does is he does

3236
03:06:56,400 --> 03:06:58,080
Speaker 1: things like he'll just shackle so much to a wall

3237
03:06:58,120 --> 03:07:01,800
Speaker 1: for twenty four hours, and you know, and he'll be like, okay,

3238
03:07:01,800 --> 03:07:03,680
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna shock you to this wall and until

3239
03:07:03,680 --> 03:07:05,320
Speaker 1: you sign this confession, I won't let you leave. And

3240
03:07:05,320 --> 03:07:06,880
Speaker 1: also you can't talk to anyone. You can't talk to

3241
03:07:06,879 --> 03:07:09,760
Speaker 1: you lawyer, you can't talk to h like, you can't

3242
03:07:09,760 --> 03:07:12,240
Speaker 1: talk to your family. And in the next episode we're

3243
03:07:12,360 --> 03:07:14,480
Speaker 1: say this, this this is how modern CPD torture works, except

3244
03:07:14,600 --> 03:07:18,560
Speaker 1: Zuli is doing this in the eighties. Now, zuli Is

3245
03:07:18,560 --> 03:07:21,240
Speaker 1: is a naval intelligence officer who's he's so he's still

3246
03:07:21,240 --> 03:07:24,080
Speaker 1: technically in the reserves when he joins the cops. And

3247
03:07:24,160 --> 03:07:27,000
Speaker 1: that meant when the CIA's torture is like Autnomo base

3248
03:07:27,040 --> 03:07:30,320
Speaker 1: stalled out, they needed a hero and that hero was

3249
03:07:30,400 --> 03:07:34,800
Speaker 1: zuli Um. Zuli Is was the most active. Like that.

3250
03:07:34,920 --> 03:07:37,880
Speaker 1: The thing is the most active in is the torture

3251
03:07:38,040 --> 03:07:40,920
Speaker 1: of Mohammad o old Sali, who is famously known as

3252
03:07:40,959 --> 03:07:46,440
Speaker 1: the most tortured manic autonomo Um. He's yeah, at least

3253
03:07:46,440 --> 03:07:51,959
Speaker 1: he gotten a guinness. Yeah, he yeah. They do sleep deprivation.

3254
03:07:52,240 --> 03:07:54,400
Speaker 1: I mean they some of it's like the standards sort

3255
03:07:54,440 --> 03:07:57,080
Speaker 1: of like get most stuff, which is like they don't

3256
03:07:57,120 --> 03:07:59,440
Speaker 1: let you sleep. They blast like sounds until you sell

3257
03:07:59,520 --> 03:08:02,959
Speaker 1: all the time him. They like beat you. There's molestations

3258
03:08:03,640 --> 03:08:05,959
Speaker 1: and but there's also stuff that's like like you know

3259
03:08:06,000 --> 03:08:07,840
Speaker 1: the tharnt of attack by dogs, but like the wh'll

3260
03:08:07,879 --> 03:08:12,680
Speaker 1: do things like like he'll like soap people like get

3261
03:08:12,720 --> 03:08:16,480
Speaker 1: soaked in ice water or like they stuffed him in

3262
03:08:16,480 --> 03:08:19,200
Speaker 1: this like straight jacket thing that didn't let him breathe

3263
03:08:19,200 --> 03:08:24,320
Speaker 1: properly and then stuffed full of ice and then Zuli also, yeah, yeah,

3264
03:08:24,360 --> 03:08:26,800
Speaker 1: it's it's it's bad. And he also like threatens to

3265
03:08:26,879 --> 03:08:30,000
Speaker 1: kidnap his mother and have recent to Guantanamo to be

3266
03:08:30,000 --> 03:08:34,400
Speaker 1: braved because these people are again jazz monsters. And yeah,

3267
03:08:34,480 --> 03:08:37,600
Speaker 1: Zuli is still alive today and romes the streets as

3268
03:08:37,600 --> 03:08:41,240
Speaker 1: a freeman, having received literally no consequences whatsoever for being

3269
03:08:41,280 --> 03:08:43,720
Speaker 1: a torturer. So good in the CPD that the CIA

3270
03:08:43,920 --> 03:08:45,760
Speaker 1: was like, we're gonna bring this guy into the torture.

3271
03:08:46,240 --> 03:08:52,240
Speaker 1: That's great, it's great. It's yep yep ah. And and

3272
03:08:52,280 --> 03:08:57,840
Speaker 1: that that that brings us to our first interlude, which

3273
03:08:57,920 --> 03:09:01,000
Speaker 1: is every year Chicago Police Office go to the grave

3274
03:09:01,080 --> 03:09:03,560
Speaker 1: of the Deputy Chairman of the Black Panther Party, Fred Hampton's,

3275
03:09:03,560 --> 03:09:05,640
Speaker 1: who they assassinated in a police rate after drug the

3276
03:09:05,720 --> 03:09:08,240
Speaker 1: n um. They go to his grave to shoot his

3277
03:09:08,320 --> 03:09:12,040
Speaker 1: fucking tombstone. They do this literally every year. The families

3278
03:09:12,280 --> 03:09:14,640
Speaker 1: they keep getting you tombstones, they shoot them every They

3279
03:09:14,640 --> 03:09:17,480
Speaker 1: shoot them every year. It just doesn't matter. Uh, the

3280
03:09:17,480 --> 03:09:20,080
Speaker 1: CPD just keeps shooting it. And there's a quote from

3281
03:09:20,080 --> 03:09:22,960
Speaker 1: the Great Trinity Daddy and marchis historian C. L. R. James,

3282
03:09:23,000 --> 03:09:26,120
Speaker 1: And I think about a lot that goes when history

3283
03:09:26,200 --> 03:09:27,879
Speaker 1: is written as it ought to be written. It is

3284
03:09:27,879 --> 03:09:30,320
Speaker 1: the moderation and long patience of the masses at which

3285
03:09:30,320 --> 03:09:34,680
Speaker 1: people will will wonder, not their ferocity. Yep. I really

3286
03:09:34,720 --> 03:09:39,360
Speaker 1: hope there's a moment of people doing things to cops

3287
03:09:39,520 --> 03:09:43,400
Speaker 1: that makes generations in the future marvel at their ferocity. Yeah.

3288
03:09:43,440 --> 03:09:46,680
Speaker 1: I think I can say that without it legally being incitement. Yes.

3289
03:09:47,040 --> 03:09:49,160
Speaker 1: I'll make one other fun note, which is that five

3290
03:09:49,240 --> 03:09:52,879
Speaker 1: Chicago police officers died last year from COVID. So that's good. Yeah,

3291
03:09:54,360 --> 03:09:57,720
Speaker 1: let's make it fifty officer Dad. Look, they're working on it.

3292
03:09:58,080 --> 03:10:01,040
Speaker 1: They don't they won't wear masks. Back to critical support

3293
03:10:01,080 --> 03:10:03,960
Speaker 1: to the Chicago police who don't wear masks. They're they're

3294
03:10:04,040 --> 03:10:06,680
Speaker 1: they're they're they're they're they're having their police Academy exams

3295
03:10:06,680 --> 03:10:10,400
Speaker 1: in person. Now, oh that's good, that's good. You know what,

3296
03:10:12,040 --> 03:10:16,800
Speaker 1: critical support spend more time indoors together without masks. Guys,

3297
03:10:16,840 --> 03:10:24,920
Speaker 1: avoid those vaxes. Yeah, yeah, great, will happen. Okay, So

3298
03:10:25,200 --> 03:10:30,199
Speaker 1: story two, which is a shorter one but no less bleak.

3299
03:10:30,360 --> 03:10:36,360
Speaker 1: I think. On October fourteen, officer Jason Van Dyke fired

3300
03:10:36,440 --> 03:10:40,040
Speaker 1: sixteen shots at Lakwon McDonald, who had turned around and

3301
03:10:40,160 --> 03:10:43,240
Speaker 1: was walking away from him. Here's from the people of

3302
03:10:43,280 --> 03:10:47,720
Speaker 1: the state of Illinois. Walking away aggressively, Chris, Yeah, oh boy,

3303
03:10:47,879 --> 03:10:54,200
Speaker 1: violently exiting. Yeah, I walking away while black, which I

3304
03:10:54,240 --> 03:10:57,160
Speaker 1: guess in the minds of like half of the United States.

3305
03:10:57,400 --> 03:11:02,039
Speaker 1: Is someone at defended legal right to shoot people in

3306
03:11:02,080 --> 03:11:06,320
Speaker 1: the back who are trying to a way. Yeah, it's yeah,

3307
03:11:06,440 --> 03:11:09,800
Speaker 1: great country, We're nailing it. From the Chicago Tribune and

3308
03:11:09,879 --> 03:11:12,120
Speaker 1: analysis of the video. This is this is from the

3309
03:11:12,480 --> 03:11:15,120
Speaker 1: court case, but in the child Tribune. An analysis of

3310
03:11:15,160 --> 03:11:18,640
Speaker 1: the video establishes that fourteen to fifteen seconds passed from

3311
03:11:18,640 --> 03:11:22,240
Speaker 1: the time the defendant Van Dyke fired his first shot

3312
03:11:22,560 --> 03:11:25,920
Speaker 1: to clear visual confirmation of the final shot. For approximately

3313
03:11:25,920 --> 03:11:28,800
Speaker 1: thirteen of those seconds, McDonald is lying on the ground,

3314
03:11:29,680 --> 03:11:32,960
Speaker 1: so he he fires literally every bullet in he's gone

3315
03:11:32,959 --> 03:11:36,360
Speaker 1: at a man who is, by those like second shot,

3316
03:11:36,600 --> 03:11:38,360
Speaker 1: lying dead, like well it's not quite dead yet, but

3317
03:11:38,640 --> 03:11:42,720
Speaker 1: like lying on the ground. It's just Yeah. From the

3318
03:11:42,760 --> 03:11:46,360
Speaker 1: cops perspective, like why not like that? That's like that,

3319
03:11:46,480 --> 03:11:48,760
Speaker 1: like like they have the ability to do that. If

3320
03:11:48,800 --> 03:11:50,840
Speaker 1: they get the chance, Oh I get to kill a

3321
03:11:50,920 --> 03:11:54,040
Speaker 1: black person and it doesn't matter, then why like you know,

3322
03:11:54,280 --> 03:11:56,360
Speaker 1: that's like if you if you you have to, you

3323
03:11:56,400 --> 03:12:01,800
Speaker 1: have to think through like what they're actually processing this as.

3324
03:12:01,920 --> 03:12:03,760
Speaker 1: And they don't see them as like a they don't

3325
03:12:03,760 --> 03:12:06,280
Speaker 1: see them as like an equivalent human life. So it

3326
03:12:06,400 --> 03:12:09,560
Speaker 1: doesn't like it's it's they don't it doesn't like you

3327
03:12:09,600 --> 03:12:13,480
Speaker 1: can't like apply the same rules of civility that like

3328
03:12:13,879 --> 03:12:17,440
Speaker 1: we should all kind of agree upon because cops have

3329
03:12:17,480 --> 03:12:21,560
Speaker 1: such a higher hierarchical viewpoint that with them at the top,

3330
03:12:21,840 --> 03:12:25,160
Speaker 1: that they can never actually exist within any kind of

3331
03:12:25,320 --> 03:12:30,959
Speaker 1: humane society. That's why again unspeakable ferocity of the masses

3332
03:12:31,200 --> 03:12:35,920
Speaker 1: fingers crossed one day. Yeah, yeah, well you know, and

3333
03:12:36,200 --> 03:12:39,720
Speaker 1: I think that the thing, you know, Okay, so look,

3334
03:12:39,760 --> 03:12:42,199
Speaker 1: if this is the price of a liberal democracy, right,

3335
03:12:42,240 --> 03:12:43,960
Speaker 1: if if you're going to if you're going to live

3336
03:12:44,040 --> 03:12:47,520
Speaker 1: in a society that has like you know that that

3337
03:12:47,640 --> 03:12:49,760
Speaker 1: where laws are enforced by the police, the police are

3338
03:12:49,760 --> 03:12:51,960
Speaker 1: going to murder people like that's that that that's what

3339
03:12:52,000 --> 03:12:54,560
Speaker 1: you're signing on for. And I think that I think

3340
03:12:54,560 --> 03:12:57,160
Speaker 1: that's an absolutely unacceptable price. And but we shouldn't do this.

3341
03:12:57,959 --> 03:13:01,600
Speaker 1: Um Now. The other aspect of this is because you

3342
03:13:01,640 --> 03:13:05,480
Speaker 1: have to keep all of these just absolutely like just

3343
03:13:06,000 --> 03:13:10,120
Speaker 1: bloodthirsty burderers on the leash. And because also all the

3344
03:13:10,160 --> 03:13:13,879
Speaker 1: people who are actually in the governments are just genuinely

3345
03:13:13,879 --> 03:13:17,840
Speaker 1: the asplicable human beings. Uh. Immediately after I mean, like

3346
03:13:18,000 --> 03:13:20,640
Speaker 1: really before the shots have stopped firing, like, there's a

3347
03:13:20,640 --> 03:13:23,959
Speaker 1: coper up that stretches from like includes everyone from the

3348
03:13:24,000 --> 03:13:25,600
Speaker 1: officers on the scene all the way up to may

3349
03:13:25,720 --> 03:13:28,800
Speaker 1: Raw Emmanuel. So for example, mysteriously none of the multiple

3350
03:13:28,879 --> 03:13:31,640
Speaker 1: dashboard cameras on the scene we're recording audio for reasons

3351
03:13:31,640 --> 03:13:36,160
Speaker 1: only the discerning listener can guess at yep, Like everyone

3352
03:13:36,200 --> 03:13:38,720
Speaker 1: across the entire chain of command again going right up

3353
03:13:38,760 --> 03:13:41,640
Speaker 1: to the mayor's office immediately goes we we cannot let

3354
03:13:41,640 --> 03:13:45,280
Speaker 1: this video get out because it's it's so bad that

3355
03:13:45,840 --> 03:13:49,840
Speaker 1: even the CPD s like this is gonna look bad

3356
03:13:49,879 --> 03:13:52,480
Speaker 1: for us. Because the thing gets out, then people will

3357
03:13:52,520 --> 03:13:55,199
Speaker 1: want to do bad things to cops and they can't

3358
03:13:55,200 --> 03:14:00,080
Speaker 1: have that. And you know, so this this, this is

3359
03:14:00,760 --> 03:14:03,960
Speaker 1: this tape is concealed for over a year until the

3360
03:14:04,000 --> 03:14:08,520
Speaker 1: journalist Brandon Smith like literally gets a like sues them

3361
03:14:08,520 --> 03:14:11,000
Speaker 1: and literally gets the judge to like order the state

3362
03:14:11,040 --> 03:14:13,240
Speaker 1: to release it. And while this is going on, that

3363
03:14:13,280 --> 03:14:15,880
Speaker 1: the cops are doing this massive pr blitz featuring this

3364
03:14:16,000 --> 03:14:19,480
Speaker 1: just like incredible pack of racist lies, including that McDonald

3365
03:14:19,480 --> 03:14:21,560
Speaker 1: had lunge for it yet Van Dyke with a knife. No,

3366
03:14:21,640 --> 03:14:23,680
Speaker 1: he didn't, He was literally walking away from them. That

3367
03:14:23,800 --> 03:14:26,960
Speaker 1: McDonald had a gun, which is initiesting one because not

3368
03:14:27,040 --> 03:14:29,120
Speaker 1: only like they didn't even have time to like plant

3369
03:14:29,160 --> 03:14:31,000
Speaker 1: like they killed him so fast, they didn't have time

3370
03:14:31,000 --> 03:14:33,480
Speaker 1: to plant a gun on him, like there's no gun.

3371
03:14:33,640 --> 03:14:35,879
Speaker 1: But the multiple officers will are are like you can

3372
03:14:35,920 --> 03:14:37,520
Speaker 1: you can find news things of them talking about how

3373
03:14:37,560 --> 03:14:38,880
Speaker 1: this guy, oh, he had a gun. It's like there's

3374
03:14:38,879 --> 03:14:42,840
Speaker 1: no gun. Um. Yeah. The classic one is that like

3375
03:14:42,879 --> 03:14:46,240
Speaker 1: Van Dyke feared for his life and uh, no he didn't.

3376
03:14:46,320 --> 03:14:50,000
Speaker 1: He probably should now, but he does not. Yeah, he

3377
03:14:50,000 --> 03:14:53,280
Speaker 1: should never. He should never live awaking or sleeping moments

3378
03:14:53,520 --> 03:14:56,440
Speaker 1: where he's not in constant fear of someone cutting his

3379
03:14:56,520 --> 03:14:59,000
Speaker 1: head off, just as like in terms of the horror

3380
03:14:59,080 --> 03:15:02,240
Speaker 1: that should be viewed inside people who do these things,

3381
03:15:02,440 --> 03:15:04,360
Speaker 1: they should never like they shouldn't have been able to

3382
03:15:04,360 --> 03:15:07,720
Speaker 1: like sit down and be comfortable. The closest we've ever

3383
03:15:07,760 --> 03:15:10,200
Speaker 1: gotten in to justice for one of these guys is

3384
03:15:10,240 --> 03:15:14,880
Speaker 1: when that mob surrounded Uh, Derek Chauvin's house. Yeah, and

3385
03:15:15,440 --> 03:15:17,800
Speaker 1: it would have been actual justice if they had gotten

3386
03:15:17,800 --> 03:15:23,440
Speaker 1: through the door. Yep, yeah, it's yeah, so you know

3387
03:15:23,480 --> 03:15:25,760
Speaker 1: all and you ever like so there's all there's there's

3388
03:15:25,760 --> 03:15:28,080
Speaker 1: this huge coterie of cops. We're all just lying about this.

3389
03:15:28,560 --> 03:15:30,800
Speaker 1: They're lying in the press. They're lying just there lying.

3390
03:15:30,840 --> 03:15:34,599
Speaker 1: They they start they lie like on the stand um.

3391
03:15:34,680 --> 03:15:36,880
Speaker 1: And you know, the strategy works for a while because

3392
03:15:36,879 --> 03:15:39,080
Speaker 1: this country is just the racist tellhole until the court

3393
03:15:39,080 --> 03:15:41,840
Speaker 1: forces him to release the video. And when it becomes

3394
03:15:41,879 --> 03:15:43,040
Speaker 1: clear of the video is going to come out, the

3395
03:15:43,040 --> 03:15:45,680
Speaker 1: state immediately charges him, like they charged him, and then

3396
03:15:45,760 --> 03:15:47,959
Speaker 1: later that day they released a video. Now, now keep

3397
03:15:47,959 --> 03:15:50,840
Speaker 1: this in mind, they had this video for a fucking year.

3398
03:15:51,840 --> 03:15:55,040
Speaker 1: It's what it's all. It's all fake and you know, yeah,

3399
03:15:55,040 --> 03:15:57,320
Speaker 1: and they only charged him with the alternative was literally

3400
03:15:57,360 --> 03:15:59,320
Speaker 1: being run into the sea by an entire mob of

3401
03:15:59,360 --> 03:16:03,040
Speaker 1: the totally the entire population of Chicago. Um. So, Van

3402
03:16:03,080 --> 03:16:05,240
Speaker 1: Dyke is suspended without pay, right, but he immediately gets

3403
03:16:05,280 --> 03:16:10,400
Speaker 1: hired by the by the police union. Yeah yeah, yeah,

3404
03:16:11,120 --> 03:16:13,680
Speaker 1: and and Van Dyke Van Dyke eventually, i mean he

3405
03:16:13,720 --> 03:16:16,120
Speaker 1: goes down. Eventually he gets convicted of you know, of

3406
03:16:16,160 --> 03:16:19,840
Speaker 1: second green murder and sixteen counts of battery. But you know,

3407
03:16:19,879 --> 03:16:21,880
Speaker 1: there's a there's a later report that describes the involvement

3408
03:16:21,920 --> 03:16:24,879
Speaker 1: of sixteen other officers in the cover up. Uh. Four

3409
03:16:24,920 --> 03:16:27,840
Speaker 1: officers were eventually fired for lying about the case, three

3410
03:16:27,840 --> 03:16:29,840
Speaker 1: were tried for the cover up and acquitted, and four

3411
03:16:29,879 --> 03:16:32,840
Speaker 1: officers were given a one week suspension for the mysterious

3412
03:16:32,920 --> 03:16:41,080
Speaker 1: lack of camera audio. Honestly, more is more than usually happens. Yeah, well,

3413
03:16:41,080 --> 03:16:43,920
Speaker 1: I mean this is like this video is so bad

3414
03:16:44,040 --> 03:16:46,199
Speaker 1: that like this video is so I mean, Raw Emmanuel

3415
03:16:46,879 --> 03:16:49,440
Speaker 1: doesn't really mean he that the consequence he suffers is

3416
03:16:49,480 --> 03:16:51,920
Speaker 1: that he decides not to run again because it will

3417
03:16:51,959 --> 03:16:55,920
Speaker 1: be bad for him. But Raw Emmanuel is currently now

3418
03:16:56,120 --> 03:16:58,560
Speaker 1: that his his consequence is that he's the American ambassador

3419
03:16:58,560 --> 03:17:03,000
Speaker 1: of Japan and death. You know, I I will also

3420
03:17:03,000 --> 03:17:05,360
Speaker 1: say this, the people of Japan do not deserve Raw Emmanual.

3421
03:17:05,520 --> 03:17:07,840
Speaker 1: The Liberal Democratic Party, on the other hand, are maybe

3422
03:17:07,879 --> 03:17:09,920
Speaker 1: the only people on earth who actually deserve him. Like,

3423
03:17:09,959 --> 03:17:12,119
Speaker 1: if you didn't want us to palm row Mammanuel off

3424
03:17:12,280 --> 03:17:14,080
Speaker 1: on you, you shouldn't have taken all that CIA money

3425
03:17:14,120 --> 03:17:15,480
Speaker 1: in the fifties and sixties and let them run your

3426
03:17:15,480 --> 03:17:19,440
Speaker 1: political campaigns. So Liberal Democratic Party, lie down with dogs,

3427
03:17:19,480 --> 03:17:23,920
Speaker 1: get fleas um. But yeah, Jason van Dyke was released

3428
03:17:23,920 --> 03:17:26,080
Speaker 1: from prison two weeks ago after serving less than half

3429
03:17:26,080 --> 03:17:33,160
Speaker 1: a sentence. Mcwam McDonald's remains dead. Yeah. I mean the

3430
03:17:33,200 --> 03:17:35,800
Speaker 1: really depressing part is that that is more consequences than

3431
03:17:35,920 --> 03:17:41,320
Speaker 1: usually ever happens, and that that only happened because of,

3432
03:17:41,720 --> 03:17:44,280
Speaker 1: you know, like an incredible amount of organization, and like

3433
03:17:44,320 --> 03:17:46,520
Speaker 1: I think of all of the times where there is

3434
03:17:46,560 --> 03:17:48,520
Speaker 1: no video, Think of all the times where there's nothing

3435
03:17:48,640 --> 03:17:51,879
Speaker 1: and things just happened, no one watches it, and then

3436
03:17:52,040 --> 03:17:56,120
Speaker 1: dead bodies get kicked into a ditch um. And that's

3437
03:17:56,200 --> 03:17:59,000
Speaker 1: way more common than anything where there's a type of

3438
03:17:59,000 --> 03:18:01,200
Speaker 1: like recordings or even where there needs to be cover ups.

3439
03:18:01,959 --> 03:18:04,320
Speaker 1: You know, you you both are probably too young for

3440
03:18:04,360 --> 03:18:06,720
Speaker 1: this movie. But in one of the Transformers movies, after

3441
03:18:06,760 --> 03:18:12,200
Speaker 1: they beat all the bad Transformers, okay, you know where

3442
03:18:12,200 --> 03:18:14,400
Speaker 1: the navy lifts them all up and drops them into

3443
03:18:14,400 --> 03:18:16,920
Speaker 1: the sea. Yes, what if we did that with the

3444
03:18:17,000 --> 03:18:21,840
Speaker 1: Chicago Police Department. Just drop him in the sea, big old,

3445
03:18:21,920 --> 03:18:25,840
Speaker 1: big them up, drop him in the sea. Yea, Now

3446
03:18:25,879 --> 03:18:28,040
Speaker 1: we put them in a bag. There's no swimming Okay,

3447
03:18:28,240 --> 03:18:32,200
Speaker 1: that's fair. Look, look they one one, they get one

3448
03:18:32,240 --> 03:18:35,080
Speaker 1: bag individual, each individual against one bag for each bag.

3449
03:18:35,120 --> 03:18:37,280
Speaker 1: They put over someone's head and strangled them with I

3450
03:18:37,320 --> 03:18:40,320
Speaker 1: think that's fair, and then right into the sea and

3451
03:18:41,720 --> 03:18:45,360
Speaker 1: solves all problems. The blessing, like I do, I do

3452
03:18:45,480 --> 03:18:48,480
Speaker 1: genuinely want to say, is that like if if you

3453
03:18:48,560 --> 03:18:51,560
Speaker 1: read this story over and over and over and over again,

3454
03:18:51,600 --> 03:18:53,959
Speaker 1: you get people who are like you get the governor

3455
03:18:54,040 --> 03:18:56,400
Speaker 1: going like the system is fundamentally broken to must reformat.

3456
03:18:56,400 --> 03:18:58,360
Speaker 1: You get the courts saying the system is fundamentally broken

3457
03:18:58,360 --> 03:19:02,720
Speaker 1: and blush reformat and it never changes. They just keep

3458
03:19:02,760 --> 03:19:05,480
Speaker 1: killing people, they keep inslaving people, they keep doing like,

3459
03:19:05,520 --> 03:19:08,800
Speaker 1: they keep troaturing people, they keep murdering people, they keep

3460
03:19:08,840 --> 03:19:12,320
Speaker 1: raving people, and this will not end until you abolish

3461
03:19:12,360 --> 03:19:16,080
Speaker 1: the police. Like there is no alternative if you if

3462
03:19:16,120 --> 03:19:20,480
Speaker 1: your car is fun is broken on a fundamental level,

3463
03:19:20,959 --> 03:19:23,720
Speaker 1: you can't you can't reform your car to make it better.

3464
03:19:24,000 --> 03:19:26,480
Speaker 1: There's a certain point where it's total and you're like, well,

3465
03:19:26,640 --> 03:19:30,400
Speaker 1: I guess that kind It's like Asian block is shattered

3466
03:19:30,400 --> 03:19:33,080
Speaker 1: and you're like, we fixes the tires, so it ought

3467
03:19:33,120 --> 03:19:36,280
Speaker 1: to go now. No, It's like if it's broken on

3468
03:19:36,320 --> 03:19:39,520
Speaker 1: the fundamental level, you can't reform it. Those words like

3469
03:19:39,560 --> 03:19:43,600
Speaker 1: those words don't go together, yea, like throw out, throw

3470
03:19:43,640 --> 03:19:47,000
Speaker 1: out your car and build a train. That's that's what

3471
03:19:47,040 --> 03:19:55,360
Speaker 1: you have to do. Walk to get a bicycle, honestly, Like, yeah,

3472
03:19:55,440 --> 03:19:57,800
Speaker 1: I stuck a bottle onto the rail of my A

3473
03:19:57,959 --> 03:20:00,680
Speaker 1: R fifteen. So it's not a gun anymore. No, it's

3474
03:20:00,800 --> 03:20:07,280
Speaker 1: it's still is gone. Um. Yeah, this is really really

3475
03:20:07,320 --> 03:20:13,000
Speaker 1: sad um and it's good stuff. Pretty depressing. Um. Anyway,

3476
03:20:13,040 --> 03:20:15,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go watch Two Eights The Dark Night and

3477
03:20:15,920 --> 03:20:22,640
Speaker 1: feel feel great about myself. Yeah all right, Well that's

3478
03:20:22,640 --> 03:20:24,400
Speaker 1: gonna do it for us, and it could happen here

3479
03:20:24,440 --> 03:20:30,840
Speaker 1: today until next time. Uh, hope that more Chicago police

3480
03:20:30,879 --> 03:20:34,360
Speaker 1: officers get COVID there there is that. There's that fun

3481
03:20:34,440 --> 03:20:37,080
Speaker 1: scene in the Dark Knight where the Joker goes into

3482
03:20:37,160 --> 03:20:40,080
Speaker 1: the Chicago Police building and blows up the prison block

3483
03:20:40,120 --> 03:20:42,200
Speaker 1: with all those cops inside. That is that is a

3484
03:20:42,240 --> 03:21:02,480
Speaker 1: fun scene. Yeah anyway, Um, oh my goodness, it's could

3485
03:21:02,560 --> 03:21:06,959
Speaker 1: happen here. All right. Well that's the introduction. I'm Robert

3486
03:21:06,959 --> 03:21:11,040
Speaker 1: Evans and my work's done for today. Chris, Yeah, it's me.

3487
03:21:11,120 --> 03:21:13,880
Speaker 1: It's Christopher. We are We are back with two more

3488
03:21:13,920 --> 03:21:17,000
Speaker 1: stories of rape, torture, and murder from the Chicago Police Department.

3489
03:21:18,400 --> 03:21:23,720
Speaker 1: Yeah we have Yeah, well you know, okay, this one, this,

3490
03:21:23,760 --> 03:21:26,960
Speaker 1: this one will be more fun than last time because okay,

3491
03:21:26,959 --> 03:21:29,320
Speaker 1: so basically, since since I started showing up on this show,

3492
03:21:29,400 --> 03:21:31,680
Speaker 1: I have made a case. I have been dropping references

3493
03:21:31,680 --> 03:21:34,279
Speaker 1: to the fact that Chicago Police Department is literally a cartel,

3494
03:21:34,800 --> 03:21:37,680
Speaker 1: and today I am finally telling the story of how

3495
03:21:37,840 --> 03:21:42,240
Speaker 1: this is a little unfair. But yeah, also, also I

3496
03:21:42,240 --> 03:21:44,200
Speaker 1: didn't mention this before we go win. There's also a

3497
03:21:44,240 --> 03:21:46,400
Speaker 1: bonus cartel because while I was doing research on one

3498
03:21:46,400 --> 03:21:48,240
Speaker 1: of the cartels, I realized that I couldn't actually talk

3499
03:21:48,280 --> 03:21:51,360
Speaker 1: about it without talking about the other cartel. So there's two.

3500
03:21:51,959 --> 03:21:55,560
Speaker 1: There are two completely unrelated CPD cartels that are will

3501
03:21:55,560 --> 03:21:59,600
Speaker 1: show up in this story. Uh yeah, it's great. So

3502
03:22:00,520 --> 03:22:04,960
Speaker 1: all right, this is the story of Ronald Watts. Now,

3503
03:22:05,080 --> 03:22:08,160
Speaker 1: Ronard Wats joined the CPD in nine after serving in

3504
03:22:08,200 --> 03:22:10,680
Speaker 1: the Army, making him yet another example of the fabled

3505
03:22:10,720 --> 03:22:13,720
Speaker 1: troop cop combination that produces the worst people on earth.

3506
03:22:14,480 --> 03:22:18,480
Speaker 1: Um what. Wats was assigned to patrol Chicago's old public

3507
03:22:18,520 --> 03:22:24,360
Speaker 1: housing like projects now wants is from housing himself. Um,

3508
03:22:24,520 --> 03:22:28,879
Speaker 1: there's okay. So some of the people who knew him

3509
03:22:28,920 --> 03:22:32,440
Speaker 1: before he went into the police claimed that, like he

3510
03:22:32,560 --> 03:22:34,960
Speaker 1: was just always like a drug dealer, and that he

3511
03:22:35,000 --> 03:22:38,080
Speaker 1: went into the police too like drug deal more. I

3512
03:22:38,120 --> 03:22:40,840
Speaker 1: don't know if that's true, because I mean, he's also

3513
03:22:40,879 --> 03:22:43,840
Speaker 1: in the army for a while, so I I don't know.

3514
03:22:43,879 --> 03:22:47,920
Speaker 1: It's sort of unclear. But you know, he's for the projects.

3515
03:22:47,920 --> 03:22:49,680
Speaker 1: He he knows that terign well, and that's why he

3516
03:22:49,720 --> 03:22:51,960
Speaker 1: was an extremely effective agent of terror in a place

3517
03:22:51,959 --> 03:22:54,560
Speaker 1: where officers would regularly drive by blasting the N word

3518
03:22:54,600 --> 03:22:56,640
Speaker 1: and other racial slurs out of their cop car speakers.

3519
03:22:57,440 --> 03:23:01,080
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, here here, here's the intercept describing what like

3520
03:23:01,160 --> 03:23:04,360
Speaker 1: Chicago cops are just doing at the projects. They were

3521
03:23:04,360 --> 03:23:06,600
Speaker 1: officers who found it amusing to toy with those under

3522
03:23:06,640 --> 03:23:09,400
Speaker 1: their power, arranging the foot race of heroin addics determined

3523
03:23:09,400 --> 03:23:11,680
Speaker 1: who would go to jail, for example, or forcing a

3524
03:23:11,680 --> 03:23:13,320
Speaker 1: woman they had searched on the street to walk home

3525
03:23:13,400 --> 03:23:17,240
Speaker 1: naked from the waist down. It's yeah, people who find

3526
03:23:17,320 --> 03:23:19,880
Speaker 1: joint exerting their power over other people and they think

3527
03:23:19,879 --> 03:23:24,680
Speaker 1: it's funny. Yeah, why they become cops. Yep. Well, and

3528
03:23:24,720 --> 03:23:26,400
Speaker 1: you know and the other reason to become a cop

3529
03:23:26,520 --> 03:23:29,560
Speaker 1: is is the the second thing that they do constantly,

3530
03:23:29,600 --> 03:23:31,440
Speaker 1: which is they just walk into the lobbies of these

3531
03:23:31,440 --> 03:23:34,920
Speaker 1: buildings just start taking everyone's money. And like they literally

3532
03:23:34,920 --> 03:23:37,400
Speaker 1: call the lobbies of the public housing buildings like quote

3533
03:23:37,400 --> 03:23:41,680
Speaker 1: their ATM machine. So they're just doing this constantly. There's

3534
03:23:41,680 --> 03:23:43,680
Speaker 1: also cops and this is not every cop that they're

3535
03:23:43,680 --> 03:23:46,120
Speaker 1: specific cops you do this who would show up on

3536
03:23:46,480 --> 03:23:48,320
Speaker 1: the first and the fifteenth of the month, wait for

3537
03:23:48,320 --> 03:23:51,959
Speaker 1: everyone to catch their paychecks and then rob them. And

3538
03:23:52,280 --> 03:23:54,200
Speaker 1: you know, and the thing I think is important about

3539
03:23:54,240 --> 03:23:56,800
Speaker 1: this is that, Okay, so like WATS and like the

3540
03:23:56,840 --> 03:23:59,120
Speaker 1: specific cartels do this, but this isn't just WATS. This

3541
03:23:59,160 --> 03:24:01,080
Speaker 1: is like, this is everyone who's working at these projects

3542
03:24:01,160 --> 03:24:04,520
Speaker 1: is just walking up like to like the poorest people

3543
03:24:05,000 --> 03:24:10,200
Speaker 1: in Chicago and just robbing them constantly. Um yeah, like

3544
03:24:10,240 --> 03:24:11,400
Speaker 1: this is this is you know, this this is just

3545
03:24:11,440 --> 03:24:13,920
Speaker 1: how regular policing works. And the elite units are even worse.

3546
03:24:14,480 --> 03:24:17,200
Speaker 1: So Cartel number one or I guess, I guess you're

3547
03:24:17,200 --> 03:24:19,440
Speaker 1: trying about choose since we've introduced WATTS. But so there

3548
03:24:19,520 --> 03:24:22,360
Speaker 1: used to be an elite unit in the Chicago Police

3549
03:24:22,360 --> 03:24:25,800
Speaker 1: Force called the Special Operations Section or s OS. And

3550
03:24:25,879 --> 03:24:28,160
Speaker 1: these guys, these guys are different because they you know,

3551
03:24:28,200 --> 03:24:30,480
Speaker 1: they're they're they're not attached to like an area or

3552
03:24:30,520 --> 03:24:32,400
Speaker 1: certific you know, they're they're just completely their own thing.

3553
03:24:32,480 --> 03:24:35,640
Speaker 1: They're just like they're the Special Response Team. And s

3554
03:24:35,680 --> 03:24:39,720
Speaker 1: OS would just go into projects and just ransacked the

3555
03:24:39,840 --> 03:24:42,240
Speaker 1: entire building like they would go room by room like

3556
03:24:42,320 --> 03:24:45,200
Speaker 1: taking people stuff and just looting it and then just

3557
03:24:45,280 --> 03:24:48,160
Speaker 1: like walking out. And you know, it's not even like

3558
03:24:48,200 --> 03:24:50,440
Speaker 1: there's not just that they're taking cash, like they're taking TVs.

3559
03:24:51,200 --> 03:24:52,600
Speaker 1: And I mean the thing that the thing the thing

3560
03:24:52,600 --> 03:24:54,080
Speaker 1: you if when you when you read interview some people

3561
03:24:54,080 --> 03:24:56,440
Speaker 1: who lived through this, like they're not just taking like

3562
03:24:56,600 --> 03:24:58,480
Speaker 1: stuff that's like you know, let's use that are expensive there.

3563
03:24:58,480 --> 03:25:00,920
Speaker 1: They'll take people's like lamps, like they're just walk out

3564
03:25:00,959 --> 03:25:04,760
Speaker 1: with anything like literally anything they can sell um. And

3565
03:25:04,800 --> 03:25:06,360
Speaker 1: you know, I get like these are these are the

3566
03:25:06,640 --> 03:25:10,320
Speaker 1: people living in these projects are like huge, like a

3567
03:25:10,360 --> 03:25:13,240
Speaker 1: lot a lot of these postures literally like segregation era, right,

3568
03:25:13,280 --> 03:25:16,880
Speaker 1: and so they're they're almost entirely black and they're just

3569
03:25:16,959 --> 03:25:20,480
Speaker 1: take like they're just getting robbed, but constantly by both

3570
03:25:20,560 --> 03:25:24,199
Speaker 1: regular cops a special operation section, and there's not even

3571
03:25:24,240 --> 03:25:28,160
Speaker 1: like you know, like cops nowadays have like they have

3572
03:25:28,240 --> 03:25:30,800
Speaker 1: like civil asset forfature where there's this like pseudo legal

3573
03:25:30,840 --> 03:25:32,400
Speaker 1: framework and no, no no, no, there's like they're not even

3574
03:25:32,879 --> 03:25:34,360
Speaker 1: this is the nights, They're not even doing that. They're

3575
03:25:34,400 --> 03:25:37,640
Speaker 1: just literally walking in and robbing these people at gunpoint. Um.

3576
03:25:37,920 --> 03:25:40,240
Speaker 1: S OS like they eventually get shut down deals and

3577
03:25:40,280 --> 03:25:44,720
Speaker 1: seven after so there's a series of scangles about them.

3578
03:25:44,879 --> 03:25:47,480
Speaker 1: They they steal like hundreds of thousands of dollars and people,

3579
03:25:47,480 --> 03:25:52,160
Speaker 1: they do shakedowns with drug dealers, they start kidnapping people. Um.

3580
03:25:52,240 --> 03:25:54,120
Speaker 1: At one point in s OS, dude like tried to

3581
03:25:54,200 --> 03:25:56,320
Speaker 1: hire his coworker to do a hit on someone who

3582
03:25:56,400 --> 03:26:00,520
Speaker 1: was like going to report them to the Feds. And yeah,

3583
03:26:00,560 --> 03:26:03,760
Speaker 1: but s OS isn't the main story today because Watts

3584
03:26:03,879 --> 03:26:07,920
Speaker 1: is writing is running an even larger version of this operation. Um,

3585
03:26:07,959 --> 03:26:10,560
Speaker 1: and you know, well I's proways researching this. I had

3586
03:26:10,600 --> 03:26:12,400
Speaker 1: the realization that, like, so I've talked to people in

3587
03:26:12,480 --> 03:26:15,960
Speaker 1: Chicago about like the CPD Cartel's right, and I had

3588
03:26:15,959 --> 03:26:18,039
Speaker 1: the realization that there are conversations that I've had people

3589
03:26:18,080 --> 03:26:20,480
Speaker 1: where we've been we've both been talking about different ones,

3590
03:26:20,840 --> 03:26:22,640
Speaker 1: and we both we both thought we were talking about this,

3591
03:26:22,640 --> 03:26:24,840
Speaker 1: Like I've had people talking backwards like oh, they were

3592
03:26:24,840 --> 03:26:26,480
Speaker 1: talking about the West. I was like, no, No No, I

3593
03:26:26,560 --> 03:26:32,199
Speaker 1: met the Watts one. It's it's it's great. It's love

3594
03:26:32,400 --> 03:26:40,600
Speaker 1: love our institutionalized just robbery system. Yeah. So the other

3595
03:26:40,640 --> 03:26:44,520
Speaker 1: thing I want to mention because so the intercepted like

3596
03:26:44,720 --> 03:26:47,880
Speaker 1: really good, like four like huge four part series on

3597
03:26:47,879 --> 03:26:52,920
Speaker 1: on the Watts. H like cartel. But I think it's

3598
03:26:52,920 --> 03:26:55,080
Speaker 1: worth mentioning that, Like even you know that there's like

3599
03:26:55,120 --> 03:26:57,960
Speaker 1: two quote unquote good cops who like go after Watts

3600
03:26:58,680 --> 03:27:00,560
Speaker 1: and for years and they've met your him down. But

3601
03:27:00,560 --> 03:27:03,360
Speaker 1: like even those cops are doing things that are objectively horrifying.

3602
03:27:03,840 --> 03:27:05,920
Speaker 1: Like most of the actual cop work in this story

3603
03:27:06,120 --> 03:27:09,480
Speaker 1: is done by is literally just the good cops. Like

3604
03:27:09,840 --> 03:27:12,959
Speaker 1: they know a homeless guy they called Chewbaka who they

3605
03:27:13,280 --> 03:27:15,800
Speaker 1: paid to be an informant in like blankets, sleeping bags

3606
03:27:15,840 --> 03:27:21,840
Speaker 1: and food and like it's like it should be fair

3607
03:27:21,920 --> 03:27:25,320
Speaker 1: Chebaca like genuinely like likes the two of them, But

3608
03:27:25,560 --> 03:27:27,920
Speaker 1: Cheubaca is the guy who does all of the work here,

3609
03:27:27,959 --> 03:27:31,480
Speaker 1: Like what Wastz gets like like he's the guy who's

3610
03:27:31,520 --> 03:27:33,600
Speaker 1: like wearing the wire. He's the guy who knows everything

3611
03:27:33,600 --> 03:27:36,880
Speaker 1: the cops. The cops don't know anything, and Chibaka has

3612
03:27:36,920 --> 03:27:39,359
Speaker 1: known that everything that was going on from the beginning.

3613
03:27:40,000 --> 03:27:43,160
Speaker 1: They just don't ask him for years. But like in

3614
03:27:43,560 --> 03:27:47,040
Speaker 1: Chiubaca like goes to prison at one point because Wats Okay,

3615
03:27:47,040 --> 03:27:49,920
Speaker 1: so what Watson Wats is just like a drug dealer, right,

3616
03:27:50,720 --> 03:27:55,440
Speaker 1: um so wants and uh so so Cheebaca would like,

3617
03:27:55,640 --> 03:27:56,720
Speaker 1: you know, he he was like he was like a

3618
03:27:56,760 --> 03:27:59,080
Speaker 1: sort of low level like runner. Right, you'd get a bag,

3619
03:27:59,120 --> 03:28:02,600
Speaker 1: he'd like move it sometimes times And one time in

3620
03:28:02,720 --> 03:28:05,400
Speaker 1: Watchaws these new for informations. So one time, like Watts

3621
03:28:06,080 --> 03:28:07,680
Speaker 1: was like trying to get information on where a drug

3622
03:28:07,720 --> 03:28:10,240
Speaker 1: stash was we could rob it and then like well

3623
03:28:10,360 --> 03:28:12,280
Speaker 1: time so he could do a police raid on it

3624
03:28:12,280 --> 03:28:14,279
Speaker 1: and then take the drugs and sell them. And Chibaka

3625
03:28:14,360 --> 03:28:16,680
Speaker 1: just like didn't know. So Wat's just like through be

3626
03:28:16,680 --> 03:28:20,360
Speaker 1: in prison for two years and it's just like you know,

3627
03:28:21,280 --> 03:28:23,320
Speaker 1: this this stuff this time happens constantly. That there are

3628
03:28:23,320 --> 03:28:26,760
Speaker 1: so many people who are just you know, like people

3629
03:28:26,800 --> 03:28:30,200
Speaker 1: trying to survive in the city and then oh, hey,

3630
03:28:30,240 --> 03:28:33,080
Speaker 1: you don't have the exact specific information that this cop

3631
03:28:33,160 --> 03:28:34,720
Speaker 1: wants on this drug thing. So we're just gonna send

3632
03:28:34,760 --> 03:28:37,480
Speaker 1: you to prison for two years. And Chivaca, who like

3633
03:28:37,600 --> 03:28:40,000
Speaker 1: risks his life wearing a wire and brings down one

3634
03:28:40,040 --> 03:28:41,760
Speaker 1: of the biggest cartels in the CPD, as best I

3635
03:28:41,800 --> 03:28:44,120
Speaker 1: can tell, is still living on the street because the

3636
03:28:44,160 --> 03:28:48,920
Speaker 1: society is just broken in ways that like are difficult

3637
03:28:48,959 --> 03:28:55,800
Speaker 1: to comprehend and incredibly bleak. Yeah mm hmm. Yeah. So okay,

3638
03:28:55,800 --> 03:28:58,400
Speaker 1: back to Watch this operation. Watts has this thing called

3639
03:28:58,400 --> 03:29:01,200
Speaker 1: the Watts Tax, and the Watch tex is if you

3640
03:29:01,280 --> 03:29:03,440
Speaker 1: run drugs, you pay the tax to Wats and this

3641
03:29:03,560 --> 03:29:05,560
Speaker 1: this tax gives you production from the police. If if if

3642
03:29:05,680 --> 03:29:07,240
Speaker 1: you don't pay the Watch tax, the cops show up,

3643
03:29:07,280 --> 03:29:08,960
Speaker 1: they put you in prison, they take all your cash,

3644
03:29:08,959 --> 03:29:11,000
Speaker 1: they raid your drugs, and then Watch resolves your drugs

3645
03:29:11,000 --> 03:29:13,600
Speaker 1: that are profit I mean that is like objectively, that

3646
03:29:13,720 --> 03:29:15,920
Speaker 1: is a decent grift, Like in terms of it's pretty

3647
03:29:15,920 --> 03:29:20,080
Speaker 1: good logistical plans, like yeah, okay, I can I can

3648
03:29:20,120 --> 03:29:22,360
Speaker 1: see how how this would actually be very profitable. Yeah,

3649
03:29:22,360 --> 03:29:25,040
Speaker 1: it's genius and like and and the other thing about

3650
03:29:25,080 --> 03:29:27,560
Speaker 1: these taxes, like these taxes are enormous amounts of money,

3651
03:29:27,600 --> 03:29:30,640
Speaker 1: Like if if so, if if, if you're running a drug,

3652
03:29:30,800 --> 03:29:33,480
Speaker 1: that's like, okay, so you have a drug that you

3653
03:29:33,560 --> 03:29:37,440
Speaker 1: move and the drugs I've I've ran drugs for thirty years,

3654
03:29:37,480 --> 03:29:41,080
Speaker 1: I know. Yeah, so the tax for the for that

3655
03:29:41,200 --> 03:29:43,840
Speaker 1: single drug can be as high as fifty dollars a week.

3656
03:29:44,959 --> 03:29:47,040
Speaker 1: So he is he is making a lot of money,

3657
03:29:47,200 --> 03:29:50,840
Speaker 1: so much money, just an incomprehensible amount of money off

3658
03:29:50,879 --> 03:29:55,440
Speaker 1: of this, I guess, I guess you would have to

3659
03:29:55,440 --> 03:29:59,520
Speaker 1: become cops. I have an idea for a pivot. Do

3660
03:29:59,560 --> 03:30:02,240
Speaker 1: it in the car, tell pivot. This is how we give,

3661
03:30:02,360 --> 03:30:03,480
Speaker 1: this is how we get funded by this in a

3662
03:30:03,480 --> 03:30:06,320
Speaker 1: lower care And we've always been a cartel, but that's well,

3663
03:30:06,400 --> 03:30:09,560
Speaker 1: when we moved from podcasting into drugs, we can partner

3664
03:30:09,600 --> 03:30:11,560
Speaker 1: with our friends at the scene, a lower cartel. Yea

3665
03:30:11,600 --> 03:30:15,600
Speaker 1: would be great. Eventually, there's a guy named Big Shorty

3666
03:30:15,640 --> 03:30:20,039
Speaker 1: who's another like player in the scene. And yeah, all

3667
03:30:20,040 --> 03:30:22,520
Speaker 1: the people in this name of this great names. Yeah

3668
03:30:22,520 --> 03:30:26,520
Speaker 1: it's great. So Big Shorty is like, I'm not paying

3669
03:30:26,800 --> 03:30:29,560
Speaker 1: like fifty k a week per drug to do this anymore.

3670
03:30:29,600 --> 03:30:32,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to the Feds and so so be

3671
03:30:32,879 --> 03:30:34,360
Speaker 1: short like he threatens to go to the feeds and

3672
03:30:34,360 --> 03:30:35,680
Speaker 1: he goes to the d A and then like a

3673
03:30:35,720 --> 03:30:38,000
Speaker 1: couple of days later, she's gunned down the street by

3674
03:30:38,120 --> 03:30:42,920
Speaker 1: yeah you never yeah no, like yeah, well if you do,

3675
03:30:43,040 --> 03:30:46,520
Speaker 1: you have to make sure they like disappear you because uh,

3676
03:30:46,840 --> 03:30:49,320
Speaker 1: you never threaten it, like that's the yeah, yeah, yeah

3677
03:30:49,320 --> 03:30:53,560
Speaker 1: you don't. These worlds you mentioned like cops and going

3678
03:30:53,640 --> 03:30:56,360
Speaker 1: to in any combination, and everyone around you just like,

3679
03:30:56,360 --> 03:30:58,160
Speaker 1: all right, well, this person's got to be dead. That's

3680
03:30:58,200 --> 03:31:01,720
Speaker 1: just how that's gotta go. Yeah, it's it's not it's

3681
03:31:01,720 --> 03:31:06,400
Speaker 1: not the best move I've ever seen. It's yeah, so

3682
03:31:06,800 --> 03:31:08,840
Speaker 1: you know, And and this is when this is when

3683
03:31:08,879 --> 03:31:11,560
Speaker 1: the cops, the two cops are gonna bring Watch down,

3684
03:31:11,560 --> 03:31:14,199
Speaker 1: like actually started to take notice because literally for years,

3685
03:31:14,280 --> 03:31:15,960
Speaker 1: I mean they're they're all sorry about this, like people

3686
03:31:15,959 --> 03:31:18,880
Speaker 1: they'd be locking people up and people would say things

3687
03:31:18,879 --> 03:31:20,760
Speaker 1: like why are you going after me for two bags?

3688
03:31:20,760 --> 03:31:22,480
Speaker 1: And Watts is running the dope and just no one

3689
03:31:22,520 --> 03:31:25,560
Speaker 1: believes them, Like the cops are being told constantly for

3690
03:31:25,680 --> 03:31:27,480
Speaker 1: years like that the cops who aren't in on the

3691
03:31:28,400 --> 03:31:30,560
Speaker 1: on the intel I being told literally for years that

3692
03:31:30,720 --> 03:31:33,680
Speaker 1: that this whole thing is you know that that oh yeah,

3693
03:31:33,680 --> 03:31:35,959
Speaker 1: well why why are you bothering me? Watts is running

3694
03:31:35,959 --> 03:31:40,760
Speaker 1: this operation. They don't believe them, and they don't they

3695
03:31:40,760 --> 03:31:44,040
Speaker 1: don't believe them basically until Big Shorty gets shot. Because

3696
03:31:45,040 --> 03:31:48,520
Speaker 1: when when Big Shorty goes down like another they get

3697
03:31:48,520 --> 03:31:50,000
Speaker 1: another guy who's like pretty big in the scene, the

3698
03:31:50,040 --> 03:31:52,080
Speaker 1: guy's like, oh, yeah, no, he got shot by Wats,

3699
03:31:52,120 --> 03:31:57,280
Speaker 1: and they're like, wait, hold on now, the cops go

3700
03:31:57,360 --> 03:32:00,000
Speaker 1: to the FBI, and the FBI, it turns out, of

3701
03:32:00,000 --> 03:32:01,840
Speaker 1: has been trying and failing to put again put together

3702
03:32:01,879 --> 03:32:04,120
Speaker 1: a case against Watts for so long that like they're

3703
03:32:04,120 --> 03:32:06,320
Speaker 1: on there like second like agent who they've had in

3704
03:32:06,440 --> 03:32:08,879
Speaker 1: charge of the case because the first guy, like I

3705
03:32:08,879 --> 03:32:10,120
Speaker 1: just could do it and laugh. And so they had

3706
03:32:10,120 --> 03:32:15,400
Speaker 1: another guy and almost immediately after this, uh there's there's

3707
03:32:15,400 --> 03:32:18,520
Speaker 1: another guy. There's another dealer named Fears who he has

3708
03:32:18,560 --> 03:32:21,120
Speaker 1: this Fierce has this great grift which is like all

3709
03:32:21,160 --> 03:32:22,920
Speaker 1: of his people wear Obama shirts just like just like

3710
03:32:23,000 --> 03:32:26,920
Speaker 1: you do eight but he doesn't know, doesn't seven or something?

3711
03:32:27,120 --> 03:32:28,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, so like that, all all the people doing

3712
03:32:28,800 --> 03:32:31,080
Speaker 1: this thing, they wear Obama shirts and they call the

3713
03:32:31,120 --> 03:32:34,280
Speaker 1: drugs like Obama and so what everyone they have their

3714
03:32:34,280 --> 03:32:37,720
Speaker 1: lines called Hope. So and like this this this actually

3715
03:32:37,760 --> 03:32:41,000
Speaker 1: works on the FBI, Like the FBI doesn't understand that

3716
03:32:41,000 --> 03:32:43,039
Speaker 1: they're running drugs because they think that they're that Like

3717
03:32:43,040 --> 03:32:45,000
Speaker 1: all the Messa references of Obama are just like they're

3718
03:32:45,000 --> 03:32:49,880
Speaker 1: talking about like Obama. It's like there's there's so many,

3719
03:32:50,240 --> 03:32:53,560
Speaker 1: there's so many great like FBI weird incompetences to the

3720
03:32:53,600 --> 03:32:56,120
Speaker 1: story like that. There's one point where the cops are

3721
03:32:56,160 --> 03:32:57,880
Speaker 1: going through the documents and they see the word they

3722
03:32:57,920 --> 03:33:02,040
Speaker 1: see Lou, and it's just Lose, a short for lieutenant, right,

3723
03:33:02,040 --> 03:33:04,320
Speaker 1: But the FBI thinks that Lou is like a name,

3724
03:33:04,520 --> 03:33:06,600
Speaker 1: and so they kind of tracked down this guy named Lou,

3725
03:33:07,120 --> 03:33:15,840
Speaker 1: which is just it's it's ah, just baffling, incredible and

3726
03:33:15,879 --> 03:33:21,360
Speaker 1: coms never thrilled when they have to investigate cops. Yeah, yeah,

3727
03:33:21,520 --> 03:33:24,959
Speaker 1: even though it is literally their job. Yep. But hey,

3728
03:33:25,000 --> 03:33:29,360
Speaker 1: I hate doing my job too, so please continue, Chris. So,

3729
03:33:29,360 --> 03:33:31,800
Speaker 1: so if that fears guy who choose doing the Obama thing,

3730
03:33:31,920 --> 03:33:34,720
Speaker 1: like take seventeen rounds to the chest, and so the

3731
03:33:34,800 --> 03:33:37,360
Speaker 1: FBI number rounds to take to the chest, Yeah, that's

3732
03:33:37,360 --> 03:33:40,080
Speaker 1: a lot. It's it's it's interesting number two right, because

3733
03:33:40,080 --> 03:33:44,480
Speaker 1: like like it does difficult significance. Guess yeah. What would

3734
03:33:44,520 --> 03:33:49,200
Speaker 1: also like like is did they like reload, Like do

3735
03:33:49,280 --> 03:33:54,000
Speaker 1: they have a gun that has seventeen round man? Yeah? No, no,

3736
03:33:54,080 --> 03:33:56,760
Speaker 1: there's yeah, there's that's not that's not it. Is it

3737
03:33:56,840 --> 03:33:59,600
Speaker 1: like a handgun or is it a rifle? I think

3738
03:33:59,640 --> 03:34:04,480
Speaker 1: it's a gun, yeah, or like Baltimo people with hangdguns

3739
03:34:04,720 --> 03:34:10,080
Speaker 1: block seventeens have seventeen round magazines. That makes sense, yeah, yes.

3740
03:34:10,160 --> 03:34:14,160
Speaker 1: So so after this, the FBI investigation intensifies, and so

3741
03:34:15,240 --> 03:34:18,000
Speaker 1: the FBI goes to the Internal Affairs Division or i

3742
03:34:18,120 --> 03:34:20,480
Speaker 1: a D, who are like the most hated cops of

3743
03:34:20,560 --> 03:34:22,600
Speaker 1: all cops by other cops, because there're people who are

3744
03:34:22,600 --> 03:34:26,480
Speaker 1: supposed investigate the police and you know, so, so they

3745
03:34:26,959 --> 03:34:28,480
Speaker 1: tell that you guys who are going after watch, they're

3746
03:34:28,480 --> 03:34:31,480
Speaker 1: going to be protected. And this works for like a

3747
03:34:31,600 --> 03:34:33,600
Speaker 1: year and then the head of a I D changes

3748
03:34:33,800 --> 03:34:36,280
Speaker 1: and it's like a cop cop guy instead of so

3749
03:34:36,320 --> 03:34:38,320
Speaker 1: they had this like they brought an FBI guy who

3750
03:34:38,320 --> 03:34:39,640
Speaker 1: had been had of a D and that he gets

3751
03:34:39,680 --> 03:34:41,480
Speaker 1: kicked out and they bring in like a cop and

3752
03:34:41,560 --> 03:34:45,160
Speaker 1: that cop just immediately tells literally everyone that that the

3753
03:34:45,200 --> 03:34:48,360
Speaker 1: two cops are running an investigation. It gives Watts, and

3754
03:34:48,440 --> 03:34:52,000
Speaker 1: so uh do they die with the next few months

3755
03:34:52,000 --> 03:34:57,640
Speaker 1: there studdingly no, I espect. I can tell Watts seemed

3756
03:34:57,640 --> 03:34:59,320
Speaker 1: to have thought that like they wouldn't just wouldn't be

3757
03:34:59,360 --> 03:35:02,480
Speaker 1: able to get him see too much protection, which worked

3758
03:35:02,480 --> 03:35:05,800
Speaker 1: for a while. Um yeah, it's yeah, he has a

3759
03:35:05,840 --> 03:35:07,840
Speaker 1: lot of power. Yeah. Well, and also, I mean the

3760
03:35:08,120 --> 03:35:09,960
Speaker 1: other thing about this is she just like his stuff,

3761
03:35:09,959 --> 03:35:12,880
Speaker 1: starts getting wilder. So he goes after this guy. He

3762
03:35:12,920 --> 03:35:14,959
Speaker 1: tries to go after the drugs of this guy named Monk,

3763
03:35:15,200 --> 03:35:16,920
Speaker 1: and like Muk is carrying a bunch of drugs, he's

3764
03:35:16,920 --> 03:35:19,039
Speaker 1: trying to He's trying to rob bunk Um from the

3765
03:35:19,080 --> 03:35:21,560
Speaker 1: intercept a wild car chase and suit on the Dan

3766
03:35:21,680 --> 03:35:24,400
Speaker 1: Ryan Expressway like Sure Drive, and ultimately into the Hyde

3767
03:35:24,400 --> 03:35:27,000
Speaker 1: Park neighborhood, where Monk lost control of the car and

3768
03:35:27,040 --> 03:35:30,120
Speaker 1: crashed in a park. He fled on foot. Watson his

3769
03:35:30,160 --> 03:35:32,520
Speaker 1: team seized the dope and cash. They didn't even check

3770
03:35:32,520 --> 03:35:34,959
Speaker 1: on the condition of the women and infant who remained

3771
03:35:34,959 --> 03:35:39,439
Speaker 1: in the car, which is great. And also that's that's standard.

3772
03:35:39,600 --> 03:35:42,120
Speaker 1: That that's that that's like standard CPD procedure. I have

3773
03:35:42,240 --> 03:35:44,800
Speaker 1: literally seen this happen like in Hyde Park, like I

3774
03:35:45,160 --> 03:35:47,640
Speaker 1: have there. When I was in college, I almost got

3775
03:35:47,680 --> 03:35:49,280
Speaker 1: run over in his seat and like the CPD almost

3776
03:35:49,320 --> 03:35:50,840
Speaker 1: ran me over in this like car chase that went

3777
03:35:50,879 --> 03:35:54,039
Speaker 1: bad and this giant multi car crash and like there's

3778
03:35:54,080 --> 03:35:57,560
Speaker 1: like sixteen cops, right, they all just run past the

3779
03:35:57,600 --> 03:35:59,720
Speaker 1: car crash after the two guys are chasing and like

3780
03:36:00,080 --> 03:36:02,080
Speaker 1: have to go make sure no one died. And I

3781
03:36:02,160 --> 03:36:05,080
Speaker 1: was like, I, this is great. You have just almost

3782
03:36:05,160 --> 03:36:07,440
Speaker 1: murdered me. And then also you're not checking on all

3783
03:36:07,480 --> 03:36:09,400
Speaker 1: of these people in this car even in the wreck.

3784
03:36:09,600 --> 03:36:15,240
Speaker 1: I Oh, I hate a CPD. I hate them a lot.

3785
03:36:15,680 --> 03:36:18,520
Speaker 1: This took the sound. This sound nice. Yeah, it's great

3786
03:36:18,640 --> 03:36:23,360
Speaker 1: there there. Yeah, this just happens like all the time,

3787
03:36:23,680 --> 03:36:26,200
Speaker 1: like often enough that like literally in the same place,

3788
03:36:28,360 --> 03:36:31,440
Speaker 1: which like all of these big because you've got like

3789
03:36:31,440 --> 03:36:34,360
Speaker 1: a few really big, shitty, big city police departments. You've

3790
03:36:34,360 --> 03:36:35,960
Speaker 1: got your l A p D, You're n Y p D,

3791
03:36:36,560 --> 03:36:40,000
Speaker 1: You've got your Chicago Police Department. By god, you've got St.

3792
03:36:40,040 --> 03:36:44,080
Speaker 1: Louis cops. And they're all they're all shitty and simultaneously

3793
03:36:44,160 --> 03:36:47,000
Speaker 1: the same in different ways. Like there there, it's the

3794
03:36:47,040 --> 03:36:51,800
Speaker 1: same basic idea. It's brutality, it's violence, it's robbery. Um,

3795
03:36:51,840 --> 03:36:55,680
Speaker 1: but they they find unique ways to do those shitty things,

3796
03:36:55,760 --> 03:36:59,600
Speaker 1: which is fascinating. Yeah, Like I've always like like they

3797
03:37:00,120 --> 03:37:02,320
Speaker 1: n y p DS, like they're big thing is if

3798
03:37:02,360 --> 03:37:04,320
Speaker 1: you get a large number of people together, the NYPD

3799
03:37:04,400 --> 03:37:06,720
Speaker 1: is just going to annihilate you, like l A p

3800
03:37:06,840 --> 03:37:09,840
Speaker 1: D has like the Nazi gangs. CPD thing. CPDS thing

3801
03:37:09,920 --> 03:37:15,840
Speaker 1: just seems to be crime torture. It's torture and yeah St.

3802
03:37:15,879 --> 03:37:19,120
Speaker 1: Louis Police Department will attack you with dogs if you're

3803
03:37:19,240 --> 03:37:22,959
Speaker 1: not a white person. Like, yeah, they've all got they've

3804
03:37:23,200 --> 03:37:30,680
Speaker 1: they've they've they've chosen their cops subclass. Yeah. Now okay,

3805
03:37:30,680 --> 03:37:33,240
Speaker 1: so but back in the investigation, the two cops in

3806
03:37:33,240 --> 03:37:36,840
Speaker 1: investigating Watts are like even so basically all the researchers

3807
03:37:36,879 --> 03:37:39,280
Speaker 1: get cut off. It's literally just them to watch. Note

3808
03:37:39,360 --> 03:37:42,400
Speaker 1: like basically knows that he's they're coming from them, and

3809
03:37:42,440 --> 03:37:46,080
Speaker 1: they almost get him anyways, because cops are just not

3810
03:37:46,560 --> 03:37:49,560
Speaker 1: very smart. Um, and you know they're about to get

3811
03:37:49,600 --> 03:37:52,840
Speaker 1: him on a sting for drug running and then right

3812
03:37:52,879 --> 03:37:54,920
Speaker 1: before like look, I think it's like the day of

3813
03:37:54,959 --> 03:37:57,360
Speaker 1: that they're running the sting, they suddenly get like transferred

3814
03:37:57,400 --> 03:37:59,920
Speaker 1: to the police academy, and they basically just like get

3815
03:38:00,040 --> 03:38:04,760
Speaker 1: attained in this police academy for like weeks and it's

3816
03:38:04,800 --> 03:38:07,840
Speaker 1: it's purely weird. And eventually, like and you know, this

3817
03:38:07,879 --> 03:38:09,920
Speaker 1: is when like everything just completely comes apart with the

3818
03:38:09,959 --> 03:38:13,080
Speaker 1: liaison between the CPD and the FBI literally tells them

3819
03:38:13,120 --> 03:38:14,840
Speaker 1: they can't move on the case because if they move

3820
03:38:14,840 --> 03:38:16,520
Speaker 1: on the case, it's going to reveal that Watts murdered

3821
03:38:16,520 --> 03:38:19,840
Speaker 1: a dude, because well they so they don't have good

3822
03:38:19,879 --> 03:38:21,680
Speaker 1: evidence some big shorty, but they have they have evidence

3823
03:38:21,720 --> 03:38:24,840
Speaker 1: that they have good evidence that he killed Fears and

3824
03:38:25,720 --> 03:38:28,920
Speaker 1: h And the head of Internal Affairs basically tells them like, yeah,

3825
03:38:29,000 --> 03:38:31,640
Speaker 1: like I won't do anything about Watts because it comes

3826
03:38:31,640 --> 03:38:34,680
Speaker 1: out that another CPD unit had gone rogue after s OS,

3827
03:38:34,840 --> 03:38:37,200
Speaker 1: I'll be done for so I'm just gonna cover for them.

3828
03:38:37,520 --> 03:38:44,800
Speaker 1: The second cartel is too much. Only one cartels It's great, Um,

3829
03:38:44,959 --> 03:38:47,720
Speaker 1: I can excuse one cartel, but I try the line

3830
03:38:48,320 --> 03:38:53,040
Speaker 1: too but once you hit four cartels back too good,

3831
03:38:53,280 --> 03:38:55,440
Speaker 1: which is why I am such a big fan of

3832
03:38:55,480 --> 03:38:59,360
Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Police Department. It's great, Look you got it,

3833
03:38:59,360 --> 03:39:01,080
Speaker 1: you got you got you just you just gotta get

3834
03:39:01,120 --> 03:39:03,760
Speaker 1: over the cartel hump and once you're over, Yeah, you got.

3835
03:39:03,760 --> 03:39:06,360
Speaker 1: It's like it's like growing out your your hair. Right,

3836
03:39:06,360 --> 03:39:08,359
Speaker 1: there's gonna be that period where it looks really awkward.

3837
03:39:08,400 --> 03:39:11,560
Speaker 1: That's when. That's when you've got two cartels, and then

3838
03:39:11,600 --> 03:39:15,640
Speaker 1: you get hot at four cartels. Then you're fuckable again. Yeah,

3839
03:39:15,680 --> 03:39:19,480
Speaker 1: it's great. So there's an interesting description from one of

3840
03:39:19,480 --> 03:39:20,959
Speaker 1: the two cops that don't want to read because it

3841
03:39:20,959 --> 03:39:23,400
Speaker 1: gets out how the code of Silence works. Um from

3842
03:39:23,400 --> 03:39:26,080
Speaker 1: the intercept he had, she said, this is about the

3843
03:39:26,080 --> 03:39:28,560
Speaker 1: the A A D. Guy he had, She said, made

3844
03:39:28,560 --> 03:39:31,240
Speaker 1: too many deals, there by neutralizing his ability to act,

3845
03:39:31,640 --> 03:39:34,840
Speaker 1: attributing her understanding of this dynamic largely the conversations with

3846
03:39:34,920 --> 03:39:38,800
Speaker 1: Rivera himself, conversations she denied ever occurred. She described him

3847
03:39:38,800 --> 03:39:41,160
Speaker 1: as ensnared in a web of mutual blackmail at which

3848
03:39:41,200 --> 03:39:43,760
Speaker 1: bosses have leverage over one another by virtue of their

3849
03:39:43,800 --> 03:39:47,160
Speaker 1: shared knowledge of the deals they've made. She gave an example,

3850
03:39:47,680 --> 03:39:49,800
Speaker 1: I'll make the cr get your guy go away if

3851
03:39:49,800 --> 03:39:52,080
Speaker 1: you promote my guy within your unit. The code of

3852
03:39:52,120 --> 03:39:56,480
Speaker 1: silence and cloud or thus entwined Rivera. She recalled once

3853
03:39:56,520 --> 03:40:00,080
Speaker 1: remarked to her that the bosses quote trade crs for

3854
03:40:00,160 --> 03:40:04,039
Speaker 1: favors like baseball cards. So yeah, this is this is

3855
03:40:04,040 --> 03:40:05,720
Speaker 1: what the code of silence is. It's it's it's an

3856
03:40:05,720 --> 03:40:09,800
Speaker 1: informal code sort of. That's also called the thin blue line,

3857
03:40:10,560 --> 03:40:13,959
Speaker 1: which is great, uh yeah, but basically it says that costs,

3858
03:40:14,040 --> 03:40:16,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's that cops will protect the road. But

3859
03:40:16,080 --> 03:40:18,240
Speaker 1: but it's more than that. If if if you if

3860
03:40:18,240 --> 03:40:19,960
Speaker 1: you cross the name blue line and you break the

3861
03:40:20,000 --> 03:40:22,880
Speaker 1: code of silence, you will be formally retaliated against by

3862
03:40:22,879 --> 03:40:25,440
Speaker 1: your commanders. And but when when when I say breaking

3863
03:40:25,480 --> 03:40:28,160
Speaker 1: the code of silence, what that means literally is if

3864
03:40:28,200 --> 03:40:31,279
Speaker 1: you take any action against another cop, like it literally

3865
03:40:31,280 --> 03:40:33,280
Speaker 1: doesn't like they can be torturing people, they could be

3866
03:40:33,360 --> 03:40:36,720
Speaker 1: literally running a cartel. It doesn't matter. If you say

3867
03:40:36,760 --> 03:40:39,760
Speaker 1: anything about them, you will be like formally retaliated against

3868
03:40:39,800 --> 03:40:42,760
Speaker 1: by every other cop. And so the two cops who

3869
03:40:42,760 --> 03:40:45,400
Speaker 1: are investigating wats like, they get arrested by internal affairs.

3870
03:40:46,080 --> 03:40:49,520
Speaker 1: Internal affairs like tries to like basically make a fake

3871
03:40:49,560 --> 03:40:53,280
Speaker 1: case against them, and they eventually get out, but their

3872
03:40:53,480 --> 03:40:55,520
Speaker 1: you know, their careers are over right because they you know,

3873
03:40:55,680 --> 03:40:59,480
Speaker 1: attempted to like do the thing sort of that cops

3874
03:40:59,480 --> 03:41:06,440
Speaker 1: are nominally supposed to do and they just immediately get arrested. Um,

3875
03:41:06,480 --> 03:41:07,600
Speaker 1: and you know, and they have a lot of other

3876
03:41:07,600 --> 03:41:09,520
Speaker 1: stuff happened to them. Like one of the two cops

3877
03:41:09,520 --> 03:41:11,600
Speaker 1: comes home to a bell box literally full of ship,

3878
03:41:11,640 --> 03:41:13,560
Speaker 1: with a note that says, since you like ship so much,

3879
03:41:13,600 --> 03:41:17,600
Speaker 1: thought you'd enjoy this amazing. Yeah, you know what I mean,

3880
03:41:17,680 --> 03:41:21,400
Speaker 1: Like that's fun. That's fun. That should happen more often,

3881
03:41:21,560 --> 03:41:25,760
Speaker 1: Just that should happen a lot more off other other scenarios. Yeah, yeah,

3882
03:41:25,840 --> 03:41:29,200
Speaker 1: it's it sucks that these are the cops that this

3883
03:41:29,280 --> 03:41:31,120
Speaker 1: is happening. Like, of all of the this is like

3884
03:41:31,160 --> 03:41:33,760
Speaker 1: the only time I like do not approve of like

3885
03:41:33,840 --> 03:41:37,720
Speaker 1: sending cops ship like this is this is the wrong

3886
03:41:37,760 --> 03:41:43,560
Speaker 1: reason for the wrong reason to sender. You're gone. That's true.

3887
03:41:43,840 --> 03:41:48,879
Speaker 1: They have probably stuff, they have done stuff. I will

3888
03:41:48,879 --> 03:41:52,680
Speaker 1: make sure it's better. It can be safer if it's

3889
03:41:52,800 --> 03:41:54,880
Speaker 1: If dogshit is used, then d N a K is

3890
03:41:54,959 --> 03:41:58,480
Speaker 1: harder to track anyone. You know what the safest ship

3891
03:41:58,600 --> 03:42:05,320
Speaker 1: of all to use. No, I don't ship, panther ship.

3892
03:42:05,720 --> 03:42:09,400
Speaker 1: Panther ship. See I can Yeah, I think I p

3893
03:42:09,480 --> 03:42:12,320
Speaker 1: I is never going to figure that one out. Yeah,

3894
03:42:12,320 --> 03:42:15,600
Speaker 1: I get the technology, get right on. I'll get right

3895
03:42:15,640 --> 03:42:18,840
Speaker 1: on that. Yeah, we're gonna go to go collect panther ship.

3896
03:42:19,200 --> 03:42:21,760
Speaker 1: We'll be gone for a month. It could be their

3897
03:42:21,840 --> 03:42:24,760
Speaker 1: unibomber for like fifteen years. They're trying to track down

3898
03:42:24,800 --> 03:42:27,280
Speaker 1: what kind of ship is getting put in people's mailboxes

3899
03:42:27,720 --> 03:42:30,800
Speaker 1: until your brother sends them a letter saying I know

3900
03:42:31,040 --> 03:42:33,240
Speaker 1: someone who has access to a lot of panther Ship

3901
03:42:33,640 --> 03:42:40,960
Speaker 1: and grudge tragic tail as time and then you can

3902
03:42:41,000 --> 03:42:44,440
Speaker 1: get uh an HBO miniseries where they make you like

3903
03:42:45,440 --> 03:42:49,720
Speaker 1: look slightly like you're in a boy band, only slightly.

3904
03:42:50,959 --> 03:42:54,000
Speaker 1: It's like you were in a boy band but aged out. Yeah, yeah,

3905
03:42:54,400 --> 03:43:02,080
Speaker 1: you were in. So the coat of silence also extends

3906
03:43:02,080 --> 03:43:05,560
Speaker 1: their friendly politicians. Here's some the Interset report. Soon after

3907
03:43:05,600 --> 03:43:07,879
Speaker 1: he came to the confidential section, he was given the

3908
03:43:07,920 --> 03:43:11,840
Speaker 1: assignment of investigating a deputy superintendent. The allegation was at

3909
03:43:11,879 --> 03:43:15,360
Speaker 1: the officer. The official lived outside the city. Mills worked

3910
03:43:15,360 --> 03:43:17,800
Speaker 1: on the case for months and concluded the allegation was true.

3911
03:43:17,840 --> 03:43:21,320
Speaker 1: He produced a thick file. Take months. I'm sorry I

3912
03:43:21,840 --> 03:43:28,199
Speaker 1: have to take months. There cops allowances for the caper

3913
03:43:28,240 --> 03:43:35,760
Speaker 1: of where does this guy who works here? Yeah? Very funny.

3914
03:43:36,080 --> 03:43:38,240
Speaker 1: The next day the file came back to him. It

3915
03:43:38,280 --> 03:43:40,680
Speaker 1: was mart There was a yellow post with the handwritten

3916
03:43:40,720 --> 03:43:47,120
Speaker 1: message and make it unfounded. So that's fun, awesome, amazing, Yeah,

3917
03:43:50,360 --> 03:43:55,160
Speaker 1: make it cops are cops are a breed of their

3918
03:43:55,160 --> 03:44:03,400
Speaker 1: own poetry. Poetry. Yeah. So actually, there there's a long

3919
03:44:03,480 --> 03:44:06,360
Speaker 1: history of like, yeah, politicians do something cops all the time.

3920
03:44:06,440 --> 03:44:12,240
Speaker 1: Like remember the story, right, like rama, Manuel's like nephew

3921
03:44:12,440 --> 03:44:14,760
Speaker 1: or something killed the guy in a car crash and

3922
03:44:14,920 --> 03:44:17,840
Speaker 1: the CPD he got Manuel got the CPD to just

3923
03:44:17,920 --> 03:44:21,720
Speaker 1: like that, never investigated it. They just were like, oh,

3924
03:44:21,920 --> 03:44:23,959
Speaker 1: someone died in the car crash and it just went away.

3925
03:44:24,520 --> 03:44:29,119
Speaker 1: It's it's real fun. Um. Yeah. So so eventually shortly

3926
03:44:29,120 --> 03:44:31,959
Speaker 1: after this sort of those two cops get like detained

3927
03:44:31,959 --> 03:44:34,440
Speaker 1: at the police academy. The FBI and the in the

3928
03:44:34,480 --> 03:44:39,680
Speaker 1: CPT move on wattson his partner Mohammed and no one else. Interestingly,

3929
03:44:39,800 --> 03:44:42,320
Speaker 1: because again, if you think about this for about five seconds,

3930
03:44:42,560 --> 03:44:44,840
Speaker 1: they were an enormous number of people who either know

3931
03:44:44,920 --> 03:44:48,400
Speaker 1: about this operation or are actively involved in running a

3932
03:44:48,400 --> 03:44:50,800
Speaker 1: fucking drug cartel that is one of the biggest players

3933
03:44:50,800 --> 03:44:53,360
Speaker 1: on the South Side, who are still just cops. And

3934
03:44:54,080 --> 03:44:57,320
Speaker 1: like the CPD goes after exactly two people, there are

3935
03:44:57,360 --> 03:45:00,240
Speaker 1: like dozens of people who were actively involved of them

3936
03:45:00,280 --> 03:45:04,680
Speaker 1: this who are still cops um and and you know,

3937
03:45:04,680 --> 03:45:07,160
Speaker 1: and the only real tradition to this is that the

3938
03:45:07,200 --> 03:45:09,760
Speaker 1: FBI and the CPD are complicit, which is that you know,

3939
03:45:09,840 --> 03:45:11,680
Speaker 1: I mean, so parts of the CPD want to keep doing,

3940
03:45:11,760 --> 03:45:15,360
Speaker 1: keep keep running the cartel. The FBI is like, both

3941
03:45:15,400 --> 03:45:16,960
Speaker 1: the FBI and the CBD also have an interest in

3942
03:45:17,000 --> 03:45:19,000
Speaker 1: keeping this covered up because they don't want like, you know,

3943
03:45:19,240 --> 03:45:20,680
Speaker 1: oh hey, look at the look at the loss of

3944
03:45:20,720 --> 03:45:22,880
Speaker 1: trust in in in law enforcement. It comes out that

3945
03:45:22,879 --> 03:45:25,760
Speaker 1: there were actually two cartels running in the same place

3946
03:45:25,840 --> 03:45:27,720
Speaker 1: at the same time, parallel to each other, and then

3947
03:45:27,760 --> 03:45:32,920
Speaker 1: we didn't catch them. Like yeah, but it's great because

3948
03:45:33,240 --> 03:45:35,920
Speaker 1: literally nothing happens to these people. They're still out there,

3949
03:45:36,000 --> 03:45:40,080
Speaker 1: they're still doing cops shit. Uh yeah, only two people

3950
03:45:40,120 --> 03:45:43,080
Speaker 1: went down for that, and yeah, so the cartel is

3951
03:45:43,160 --> 03:45:46,520
Speaker 1: just still there. It's that's good, it's still well. It

3952
03:45:46,600 --> 03:45:48,640
Speaker 1: proves that if you put in the work, you can

3953
03:45:48,680 --> 03:45:50,920
Speaker 1: really build something that lasts. And I think that's a

3954
03:45:51,000 --> 03:45:55,320
Speaker 1: lesson we all should be inspired by. Pull yourself up

3955
03:45:55,320 --> 03:46:03,560
Speaker 1: by your uh jack bootstraps, and oh yeah, that's good stuff. Okay,

3956
03:46:03,560 --> 03:46:07,720
Speaker 1: so so interlude number two. On May four, six, someone

3957
03:46:07,720 --> 03:46:09,800
Speaker 1: threw a stick of dynamite at some cops and Haymarket

3958
03:46:09,840 --> 03:46:12,000
Speaker 1: Square in Chicago, tree the general strike for the eight

3959
03:46:12,000 --> 03:46:15,480
Speaker 1: hour work day they started. The cops fired wildly into

3960
03:46:15,520 --> 03:46:17,240
Speaker 1: the crowd, and the state rounded up a bunch of

3961
03:46:17,280 --> 03:46:20,720
Speaker 1: completely random anarchists who, by their own admission, had nothing

3962
03:46:20,720 --> 03:46:23,360
Speaker 1: to do with it, and had them executed. Now the cops,

3963
03:46:23,360 --> 03:46:27,879
Speaker 1: for their part, built a statue for the cops at Haymarket. Now,

3964
03:46:27,959 --> 03:46:30,360
Speaker 1: the first of these statues were destroyed on May fourth

3965
03:46:31,800 --> 03:46:36,080
Speaker 1: by a guy who just right, so he he had

3966
03:46:36,440 --> 03:46:37,680
Speaker 1: he was like, he's a street car driver, right, and

3967
03:46:37,680 --> 03:46:39,560
Speaker 1: he had to like every single day he had to

3968
03:46:39,600 --> 03:46:42,039
Speaker 1: go past the statue of the Haymarket cop. And one

3969
03:46:42,120 --> 03:46:44,800
Speaker 1: day he was just like no, and he he ran

3970
03:46:44,959 --> 03:46:48,480
Speaker 1: his street car off of the on rails, right, He

3971
03:46:48,640 --> 03:46:51,880
Speaker 1: random off of the rails and rammed it into the statue.

3972
03:46:52,240 --> 03:46:58,119
Speaker 1: This guy rules dope. So the cops build another statue,

3973
03:46:58,120 --> 03:46:59,720
Speaker 1: and that that second statue was blown up by the

3974
03:46:59,720 --> 03:47:03,160
Speaker 1: weather Underground in October nineteen nine. Uh, the costs make

3975
03:47:03,200 --> 03:47:05,959
Speaker 1: another statue. The third statue is also blown up by

3976
03:47:05,959 --> 03:47:10,520
Speaker 1: the weather Underground in October. It was like that was

3977
03:47:10,640 --> 03:47:14,240
Speaker 1: less than a year later. Yep. Yeah, and so the

3978
03:47:14,520 --> 03:47:17,040
Speaker 1: continue they originally they rebuilt it again, right, and originally

3979
03:47:17,040 --> 03:47:18,800
Speaker 1: they have it under like a twenty four hour armed

3980
03:47:18,840 --> 03:47:22,080
Speaker 1: guard Jesus and then and then and then. But you know,

3981
03:47:22,120 --> 03:47:23,879
Speaker 1: even then they were like, okay, we can't protect it.

3982
03:47:23,920 --> 03:47:27,080
Speaker 1: So they moved it into an enclosed courtyard in the

3983
03:47:27,080 --> 03:47:30,120
Speaker 1: middle of the of Chicago Police Academy because they're too

3984
03:47:30,160 --> 03:47:34,080
Speaker 1: cowardly to show it in public. Awesome, that's good. That's

3985
03:47:34,080 --> 03:47:38,480
Speaker 1: a win. That's a win everyone so much that they

3986
03:47:38,480 --> 03:47:41,600
Speaker 1: have to hide the statue to the assholes who got killed. Yeah,

3987
03:47:41,640 --> 03:47:46,600
Speaker 1: that's great. One day, one day, that fourth statue will

3988
03:47:46,640 --> 03:47:51,800
Speaker 1: follow the first three. One day, one day by the

3989
03:47:51,879 --> 03:47:56,959
Speaker 1: mere cosmic forces of the universe, by entropy. The force

3990
03:47:57,040 --> 03:48:01,480
Speaker 1: of entropy will one day destroyed the statue. Yes, okay,

3991
03:48:01,560 --> 03:48:04,320
Speaker 1: So onto story number four. Story number four is the

3992
03:48:04,360 --> 03:48:08,720
Speaker 1: Chicago Police Department's black site. So the Chicago Police Department

3993
03:48:08,760 --> 03:48:11,760
Speaker 1: has a black site called Home and Square. Um. So,

3994
03:48:11,760 --> 03:48:14,199
Speaker 1: so normally, you know, you go to a police station

3995
03:48:14,320 --> 03:48:17,520
Speaker 1: and you get booked, right, they book you, they put

3996
03:48:17,520 --> 03:48:20,039
Speaker 1: you into the system, and you know, because you're in

3997
03:48:20,080 --> 03:48:25,360
Speaker 1: the system, like you know where Um, like people people

3998
03:48:25,400 --> 03:48:27,039
Speaker 1: can find you, right because you can just look someone up.

3999
03:48:27,040 --> 03:48:29,240
Speaker 1: You can look someone up in the system. Uh. At

4000
03:48:29,280 --> 03:48:31,320
Speaker 1: Home and Square, they don't book people if you just

4001
03:48:31,400 --> 03:48:33,560
Speaker 1: if you go there, you just disappear. There's no record

4002
03:48:33,600 --> 03:48:36,000
Speaker 1: of you. Uh, there's no there's no way to contact

4003
03:48:36,000 --> 03:48:38,840
Speaker 1: a lawyer if you're in there. Uh, your lawyer doesn't

4004
03:48:38,840 --> 03:48:40,680
Speaker 1: know where you are because again there's no records of

4005
03:48:40,720 --> 03:48:42,320
Speaker 1: where you are. You've just been grabbed off the street

4006
03:48:42,320 --> 03:48:45,879
Speaker 1: and taken to a building. Um. Yeah. And and this

4007
03:48:45,959 --> 03:48:50,920
Speaker 1: is a so store storage of people there tends to

4008
03:48:50,920 --> 03:48:53,600
Speaker 1: be pretty short. They don't tend to hold people longer

4009
03:48:53,640 --> 03:48:56,600
Speaker 1: than a couple of days. But what it's therefore is

4010
03:48:56,640 --> 03:48:58,840
Speaker 1: this is this is a confession machine. This is the

4011
03:48:58,840 --> 03:49:01,680
Speaker 1: way to force confessions have a UM by just you know,

4012
03:49:01,800 --> 03:49:06,000
Speaker 1: literally disappearing them uh and denying them access to lawyers

4013
03:49:06,160 --> 03:49:08,240
Speaker 1: or literally anyone knowing where they are. And they're just

4014
03:49:08,240 --> 03:49:11,400
Speaker 1: holding them until they confess. Uh. And also yeah, so

4015
03:49:11,400 --> 03:49:14,440
Speaker 1: so at Home and Square prisoners are routinely shackled for

4016
03:49:14,440 --> 03:49:18,240
Speaker 1: for hours, like like tens of hours, sometimes twenty four hours, beaten,

4017
03:49:18,320 --> 03:49:21,440
Speaker 1: denied phone calls, and robbed constantly. This is this is

4018
03:49:21,440 --> 03:49:24,720
Speaker 1: another fun sepety tradition is Yeah, they'll just take you

4019
03:49:24,800 --> 03:49:26,760
Speaker 1: to this black site and then rob you and then

4020
03:49:26,920 --> 03:49:29,200
Speaker 1: maybe they'll release you, but you know they've still robbed you.

4021
03:49:30,480 --> 03:49:33,280
Speaker 1: And yes, you know they do these beatings, and these

4022
03:49:33,280 --> 03:49:37,320
Speaker 1: beatings are incredibly intense, like you know that they're punching people.

4023
03:49:37,360 --> 03:49:39,440
Speaker 1: They're doing like knee strikes and doing elbow strikes. You're

4024
03:49:39,480 --> 03:49:43,080
Speaker 1: hitting people with batons. Sometimes they're tassering people. Uh. We

4025
03:49:43,080 --> 03:49:45,960
Speaker 1: we have a report that that the cops filed of

4026
03:49:46,320 --> 03:49:48,760
Speaker 1: listening listened as a cop being assaulted. And the thing

4027
03:49:48,800 --> 03:49:52,600
Speaker 1: that they're listening as a non it was like like

4028
03:49:52,720 --> 03:49:56,560
Speaker 1: non like fist assault. Was the guy spat blood? Yeah,

4029
03:49:56,640 --> 03:50:01,400
Speaker 1: well and they listened to as an assault blood on them. Yeah,

4030
03:50:01,560 --> 03:50:05,040
Speaker 1: it's great, it's yeah. They also do things like they

4031
03:50:05,280 --> 03:50:12,400
Speaker 1: put like flex cuffs around people's necks. Torture. Yeah yeah

4032
03:50:13,000 --> 03:50:16,920
Speaker 1: they Yeah, that's a way for someone to die. But

4033
03:50:16,960 --> 03:50:19,080
Speaker 1: it's almost like that's maybe part of the intention is

4034
03:50:19,080 --> 03:50:23,200
Speaker 1: that someone will quote accidentally die. Oh we'll get to that. Okay,

4035
03:50:23,360 --> 03:50:26,600
Speaker 1: well so not great, Yeah yeah, yeah, it's it's not

4036
03:50:26,720 --> 03:50:29,560
Speaker 1: it's it's bad. There's another guy who Okay, so the

4037
03:50:29,600 --> 03:50:34,080
Speaker 1: cops are completely convinced this guy who was completely innocent. Well, okay,

4038
03:50:34,160 --> 03:50:35,760
Speaker 1: I do want to say, like I'm gonna say a

4039
03:50:35,760 --> 03:50:37,760
Speaker 1: lot of people are innocent because they are. But also like,

4040
03:50:37,880 --> 03:50:41,560
Speaker 1: even if you're guilty, you no one deserves this, Like

4041
03:50:41,680 --> 03:50:43,760
Speaker 1: maybe the cops doing it deserve it. But even then

4042
03:50:44,000 --> 03:50:46,480
Speaker 1: it's I don't even think they do, Like yeah, you don't,

4043
03:50:46,600 --> 03:50:50,480
Speaker 1: yeah people, yeah, like so this guy, you might knock

4044
03:50:50,520 --> 03:50:52,960
Speaker 1: down a statue or three, but yeah, like you know,

4045
03:50:53,160 --> 03:50:57,880
Speaker 1: like it's yeah, it's it's really grim like yeah. So

4046
03:50:57,920 --> 03:51:00,440
Speaker 1: they hold this guy's mouth open with a pen, right,

4047
03:51:00,920 --> 03:51:03,480
Speaker 1: and then they keep elbowing him in the stomach until

4048
03:51:03,480 --> 03:51:06,120
Speaker 1: he throws up. Um. And so she tries to get

4049
03:51:06,120 --> 03:51:08,360
Speaker 1: medical attention because he keeps throwing up because he has asthma,

4050
03:51:08,400 --> 03:51:10,680
Speaker 1: I mean also because she just got elbowed in the

4051
03:51:10,680 --> 03:51:15,440
Speaker 1: stomach repeat his mouth yeah um. And instead of giving

4052
03:51:15,480 --> 03:51:18,200
Speaker 1: him medical treatment, even though he like easily could have died,

4053
03:51:18,240 --> 03:51:21,680
Speaker 1: the cops just beat him up for asking. There's another

4054
03:51:21,720 --> 03:51:25,040
Speaker 1: guy who gets uh sexually abused with the barrel of

4055
03:51:25,040 --> 03:51:27,600
Speaker 1: a gun, and when he starts screaming, the guard the

4056
03:51:27,640 --> 03:51:29,200
Speaker 1: gun goes on a ranch about how he needs to

4057
03:51:29,200 --> 03:51:32,880
Speaker 1: be careful or he might accidentally pull the trigger. Oh boy,

4058
03:51:33,400 --> 03:51:36,880
Speaker 1: it's it's bad. Um. This this is all within that

4059
03:51:37,000 --> 03:51:38,960
Speaker 1: specific yeah, this is this is this is this is

4060
03:51:38,960 --> 03:51:42,440
Speaker 1: all just in Homeland square. Um. He claims that like

4061
03:51:42,960 --> 03:51:45,240
Speaker 1: the cell he's being held in, he doesn't get any food,

4062
03:51:45,240 --> 03:51:47,240
Speaker 1: doesn't get any water. They keep him there for hours

4063
03:51:47,400 --> 03:51:50,400
Speaker 1: and the like the cell just smells like blood and

4064
03:51:51,160 --> 03:51:54,200
Speaker 1: like feces because yeah, they don't let people go to

4065
03:51:54,240 --> 03:51:58,720
Speaker 1: the bathroom to other individuals. Uh. Stephanie Martinez and Calvin

4066
03:51:58,720 --> 03:52:01,440
Speaker 1: Cofy described relieving themselves will shackled in a Home and

4067
03:52:01,480 --> 03:52:05,000
Speaker 1: Square and interrogation room. Martinez locked up with two thousand

4068
03:52:05,040 --> 03:52:07,000
Speaker 1: and six, was told by a guard that she did

4069
03:52:07,080 --> 03:52:08,920
Speaker 1: not have the key to Martinez has handcuffs and could

4070
03:52:08,960 --> 03:52:11,560
Speaker 1: not take her to the bathroom. Kofi, taken to Home

4071
03:52:11,600 --> 03:52:15,040
Speaker 1: and Square on the sixth of February two fifteen on

4072
03:52:15,520 --> 03:52:19,160
Speaker 1: suspicion of narcotic activity, defecated on the floor after two hours,

4073
03:52:19,200 --> 03:52:22,920
Speaker 1: fruitlessly requesting for the bathroom. A police officer made Calvin

4074
03:52:23,000 --> 03:52:25,400
Speaker 1: clean it up with his skull cap. The lawsuit alleges

4075
03:52:28,400 --> 03:52:33,720
Speaker 1: it's these people are sick there. It's it's yeah, yeah, yeah,

4076
03:52:33,840 --> 03:52:37,720
Speaker 1: they hate that it's like yeah, and you know the

4077
03:52:37,920 --> 03:52:40,760
Speaker 1: things they're holding children in here, like they have people

4078
03:52:40,800 --> 03:52:44,800
Speaker 1: as young as fifteen who are being literally everything about

4079
03:52:44,800 --> 03:52:47,080
Speaker 1: this is that when so sometimes sometimes you get sort

4080
03:52:47,080 --> 03:52:49,560
Speaker 1: of like arrested normally, although again I should mention that

4081
03:52:51,080 --> 03:52:54,240
Speaker 1: the Constitution does not exist, like it's it's fake, it's

4082
03:52:54,240 --> 03:52:56,600
Speaker 1: a lie. No one ever gets read the miranda rights.

4083
03:52:56,640 --> 03:53:01,360
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter because the constitution doesn't exist if you're poor. Yeah,

4084
03:53:01,840 --> 03:53:04,200
Speaker 1: it sort of exists if you're not, but I will

4085
03:53:04,200 --> 03:53:06,360
Speaker 1: guarantee you they're reading their miranda rights to people who

4086
03:53:06,360 --> 03:53:08,360
Speaker 1: look like they got yeah, yeah, yeah, no, these people

4087
03:53:08,480 --> 03:53:10,320
Speaker 1: there's actually a story of these two point rieking guys

4088
03:53:10,320 --> 03:53:13,200
Speaker 1: who got brought in and they like the cops are

4089
03:53:13,200 --> 03:53:14,440
Speaker 1: like trying to get them, give us something, and they

4090
03:53:14,480 --> 03:53:16,960
Speaker 1: just like they start name dropping like civil rights lawyers,

4091
03:53:16,960 --> 03:53:19,480
Speaker 1: and the cops are like, okay, okay, uh, we're good.

4092
03:53:19,640 --> 03:53:21,440
Speaker 1: We'll we'll we'll drive you back. If you don't talk,

4093
03:53:21,480 --> 03:53:23,600
Speaker 1: we'll we'll drive we'll drive you back to like where

4094
03:53:23,600 --> 03:53:28,040
Speaker 1: you came from. Yeah, it's yeah, it's it's extremely grim. Yeah.

4095
03:53:28,080 --> 03:53:30,600
Speaker 1: They just want to funk with people who can't defend themselves. Yeah. Yeah,

4096
03:53:30,680 --> 03:53:31,920
Speaker 1: and you know and then the way they do this right,

4097
03:53:31,960 --> 03:53:35,520
Speaker 1: like they they do these raids where like everyone's they're

4098
03:53:35,520 --> 03:53:38,000
Speaker 1: they're they're they're not wearing badges. Everyone's just like wearing

4099
03:53:38,040 --> 03:53:41,600
Speaker 1: matt like like black armor and like black masks. And

4100
03:53:41,600 --> 03:53:43,400
Speaker 1: so people describe getting like dragged out of their house

4101
03:53:43,400 --> 03:53:44,960
Speaker 1: and they don't know if they're getting robbed or like

4102
03:53:45,000 --> 03:53:47,160
Speaker 1: if they're being kidnapped. And then they are being kidnapped

4103
03:53:47,200 --> 03:53:49,520
Speaker 1: by just being kidnapped like by the cops, and they

4104
03:53:49,520 --> 03:53:51,720
Speaker 1: get dragged and then again they're they're dragging like fifteen

4105
03:53:51,800 --> 03:53:55,800
Speaker 1: year olds into into this thing. Uh. There there's one

4106
03:53:55,840 --> 03:54:00,640
Speaker 1: guy who gets found unresponsive in an interrogation room. Um, now,

4107
03:54:00,720 --> 03:54:03,360
Speaker 1: the police say that they died from heroin overdose. But

4108
03:54:04,080 --> 03:54:09,800
Speaker 1: this makes literally no sense. So the first reason why

4109
03:54:09,840 --> 03:54:11,640
Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense is that the cops initially

4110
03:54:11,680 --> 03:54:13,600
Speaker 1: lie about where he about where he like had the

4111
03:54:13,640 --> 03:54:15,600
Speaker 1: overdose and died because they don't want to reveal that

4112
03:54:15,680 --> 03:54:18,400
Speaker 1: he uh you know, was in their secret black site,

4113
03:54:18,400 --> 03:54:19,880
Speaker 1: so they like lied and that he was another he

4114
03:54:19,920 --> 03:54:24,640
Speaker 1: was at another site. Now, the other thing you know

4115
03:54:24,680 --> 03:54:27,480
Speaker 1: that that contradicts the claimed that this guy was had

4116
03:54:27,480 --> 03:54:29,720
Speaker 1: a heroin overdose is that the hospital when he when

4117
03:54:29,720 --> 03:54:31,760
Speaker 1: when the hospital saw him, they wrote that he was sober,

4118
03:54:33,120 --> 03:54:35,080
Speaker 1: So I mean he could have he could have had

4119
03:54:35,080 --> 03:54:37,640
Speaker 1: a heroin overdose in terms of the cops injecting him

4120
03:54:37,720 --> 03:54:40,760
Speaker 1: full of yeah, like yeah, that's the most likely thing,

4121
03:54:41,240 --> 03:54:43,240
Speaker 1: Like it does nothing part of this. So so this

4122
03:54:43,280 --> 03:54:46,960
Speaker 1: guy was selling cocaine right, um, but again he's selling cocaine,

4123
03:54:47,000 --> 03:54:50,440
Speaker 1: not heroin. And the other and you know, his his partner,

4124
03:54:50,560 --> 03:54:52,480
Speaker 1: like there was another guy he was he was selling

4125
03:54:52,520 --> 03:54:55,960
Speaker 1: cocaine with like his partner, when everyone who knew him

4126
03:54:55,960 --> 03:54:57,480
Speaker 1: was completely insistant that you know he does he doesn't

4127
03:54:57,520 --> 03:55:00,200
Speaker 1: do drugs, right, he sells them because you know, do

4128
03:55:00,240 --> 03:55:03,920
Speaker 1: you sell drugs? But yeah, and and the cops and

4129
03:55:04,040 --> 03:55:05,400
Speaker 1: you know, there are things that the cops do. The

4130
03:55:05,400 --> 03:55:07,440
Speaker 1: comp thing where they they changed their story twice. So

4131
03:55:07,520 --> 03:55:11,920
Speaker 1: originally they said that he like committed suicide by heroin overdosing,

4132
03:55:12,400 --> 03:55:15,960
Speaker 1: and then they changed their story too. He died by accidents. Um.

4133
03:55:16,160 --> 03:55:19,800
Speaker 1: The The other thing that that indicates that he probably

4134
03:55:19,840 --> 03:55:21,880
Speaker 1: did not in fact die from heroin overdose is that

4135
03:55:21,920 --> 03:55:24,400
Speaker 1: there's bruises all over his face. He has a busted lip,

4136
03:55:24,800 --> 03:55:26,760
Speaker 1: his neck is super red, and none of that shows

4137
03:55:26,840 --> 03:55:30,360
Speaker 1: up in the in the police autopsy and yeah, yeah,

4138
03:55:30,360 --> 03:55:33,440
Speaker 1: and this all reads just like a standard Burge error interrogation,

4139
03:55:33,520 --> 03:55:34,920
Speaker 1: so that like they beat him, they put a bag

4140
03:55:34,960 --> 03:55:36,800
Speaker 1: over set to suffocate him, and then you plant heroin

4141
03:55:36,920 --> 03:55:40,680
Speaker 1: on him and you know, you you call him. Yeah,

4142
03:55:39,120 --> 03:55:42,680
Speaker 1: that's the day's work. Yeah yeah, and you know, and

4143
03:55:42,760 --> 03:55:44,800
Speaker 1: there's there's another thing that that that I should mention

4144
03:55:44,840 --> 03:55:47,800
Speaker 1: here about the story, which is that, Okay, so this

4145
03:55:47,800 --> 03:55:51,160
Speaker 1: guy is in a Chicago Police Department black site, right,

4146
03:55:52,800 --> 03:55:56,040
Speaker 1: how did he get heroin in? Like everyone in his

4147
03:55:56,080 --> 03:55:59,680
Speaker 1: black site is literally shackled to a wall, Like there's

4148
03:55:59,680 --> 03:56:01,400
Speaker 1: no the old, the oldly place the hair we could

4149
03:56:01,400 --> 03:56:03,680
Speaker 1: possibly have come from is the cops. So it's like,

4150
03:56:03,760 --> 03:56:07,320
Speaker 1: you know, and independent autopsy says he dies of hissphyxiation.

4151
03:56:07,720 --> 03:56:12,000
Speaker 1: Uh so yeah, I'm gonna read something from the Guardian

4152
03:56:12,080 --> 03:56:16,760
Speaker 1: about the guy who uh, the guy's partner who was

4153
03:56:16,760 --> 03:56:19,800
Speaker 1: in the next cell over. The other partner who requested

4154
03:56:19,840 --> 03:56:22,120
Speaker 1: to be cited as John Dowell. He rebuilds his life

4155
03:56:22,120 --> 03:56:25,280
Speaker 1: post conviction, was in a Home and Square interrogation room

4156
03:56:25,320 --> 03:56:28,480
Speaker 1: near Galvin's. While Dobe was unable to see inside, he

4157
03:56:28,520 --> 03:56:31,360
Speaker 1: told the Guardian he heard a lot of commotion, then

4158
03:56:31,400 --> 03:56:34,120
Speaker 1: booming and banging, and then a gagging sound coming from

4159
03:56:34,120 --> 03:56:38,880
Speaker 1: his friend's cell his partner. Yeah, so this this guy,

4160
03:56:39,120 --> 03:56:41,880
Speaker 1: uh like his partner, Like he's that guy's also like

4161
03:56:41,960 --> 03:56:45,200
Speaker 1: chained to a wall for like twelve hours. Um here

4162
03:56:45,280 --> 03:56:47,480
Speaker 1: here's he he's with them today. I heard a holler.

4163
03:56:47,560 --> 03:56:49,600
Speaker 1: I heard officers talking to him. After that, I just

4164
03:56:49,680 --> 03:56:52,560
Speaker 1: heard a lot of commotion like boom boom boom boom

4165
03:56:52,600 --> 03:56:55,520
Speaker 1: and banging boom boom, boom, boom boom, And then I

4166
03:56:55,560 --> 03:56:58,200
Speaker 1: didn't hear nothing after that. My door was kind of

4167
03:56:58,240 --> 03:57:00,280
Speaker 1: cracked and then they shut it. After that, they shut

4168
03:57:00,360 --> 03:57:03,240
Speaker 1: my door all the way before the police shut the

4169
03:57:03,280 --> 03:57:05,560
Speaker 1: door dozed, I heard a gagging sound like he makes

4170
03:57:05,560 --> 03:57:08,400
Speaker 1: a choking noise, like choking, like somebody was choking after

4171
03:57:08,440 --> 03:57:12,880
Speaker 1: the commotion, like choking. Yeah, oh yeah, it's it's very

4172
03:57:12,920 --> 03:57:16,000
Speaker 1: it's very obviously from the get go. Yeah. Yeah, like

4173
03:57:16,120 --> 03:57:19,560
Speaker 1: they tortured this guy to death and yeah, it's yeah.

4174
03:57:19,640 --> 03:57:21,560
Speaker 1: And and the other fun part about Homelod squares Homeles

4175
03:57:21,600 --> 03:57:25,160
Speaker 1: Square is also used to torture political prisoners. All right, So,

4176
03:57:25,480 --> 03:57:29,040
Speaker 1: Brian Brian Jacob Church is a member of the NATO three,

4177
03:57:29,040 --> 03:57:31,400
Speaker 1: which is a group of anti NATO protesters and twelve

4178
03:57:31,440 --> 03:57:34,280
Speaker 1: who got set up by an incredibly elaborate government entrapment

4179
03:57:34,320 --> 03:57:37,000
Speaker 1: scheme and arrested for it. Um and he was taken

4180
03:57:37,040 --> 03:57:39,600
Speaker 1: immediately to Homeland Square. He's never read his branda rights.

4181
03:57:39,760 --> 03:57:42,640
Speaker 1: He's cuffed to a bench for seventeen hours, um, and

4182
03:57:42,880 --> 03:57:44,840
Speaker 1: he he asked to call his lawyer because like a

4183
03:57:44,880 --> 03:57:47,000
Speaker 1: good leftist, he has the National Lawyers Field number written

4184
03:57:47,000 --> 03:57:50,760
Speaker 1: on his arm. And you know, this is something that's important.

4185
03:57:50,840 --> 03:57:53,400
Speaker 1: So the Guardian talked to like dozens of people who

4186
03:57:53,440 --> 03:57:57,120
Speaker 1: were held here right Um. Exactly two of them were

4187
03:57:57,160 --> 03:57:59,000
Speaker 1: able to contact a lawyer, and they were both white

4188
03:57:59,280 --> 03:58:01,160
Speaker 1: and church Church is one of them. And this is

4189
03:58:01,200 --> 03:58:04,480
Speaker 1: actually how uh part of how Home and Score goes

4190
03:58:04,520 --> 03:58:06,920
Speaker 1: public because Brian Jacob Church like talks to the press

4191
03:58:06,960 --> 03:58:10,320
Speaker 1: about it and Spencer Ackerman it's a great journalist, does

4192
03:58:10,360 --> 03:58:12,640
Speaker 1: a bunch of incredible reporting and like brings the black

4193
03:58:12,680 --> 03:58:16,760
Speaker 1: site to light. And so there's there's seven thousand and

4194
03:58:16,800 --> 03:58:19,480
Speaker 1: eighty five people we can prove we're taken to Home

4195
03:58:19,520 --> 03:58:22,320
Speaker 1: and Square. Uh, six thousand of those people are black.

4196
03:58:22,480 --> 03:58:25,560
Speaker 1: Less than one percent of those people had their rest logged,

4197
03:58:25,600 --> 03:58:28,560
Speaker 1: which means the cops just vanished them. Uh, it's almost

4198
03:58:28,600 --> 03:58:33,280
Speaker 1: certainly more people. Now, I'm going to read something about

4199
03:58:33,320 --> 03:58:36,360
Speaker 1: this from from the book Writings from the World of Policing.

4200
03:58:37,120 --> 03:58:39,040
Speaker 1: This Home and Score revelation seems to me to be

4201
03:58:39,080 --> 03:58:42,440
Speaker 1: an institutionalization of practices that date back more than forty years,

4202
03:58:42,880 --> 03:58:45,440
Speaker 1: said Flint Taylor, the civil rights lawyer and most associated

4203
03:58:45,480 --> 03:58:49,360
Speaker 1: with pursuing area to Commander John Burge. Back when I

4204
03:58:49,440 --> 03:58:52,480
Speaker 1: first started working on torture cases started representing criminal defense

4205
03:58:52,560 --> 03:58:56,320
Speaker 1: in the early nineteen seventies, Taylor continued. My my clients

4206
03:58:56,360 --> 03:58:58,400
Speaker 1: often told me they've been taken from one police station

4207
03:58:58,440 --> 03:59:00,280
Speaker 1: to another before ending up an area to where they

4208
03:59:00,320 --> 03:59:03,160
Speaker 1: were tortured. That way, the police prevent their families and

4209
03:59:03,200 --> 03:59:05,520
Speaker 1: lawyers from seeing them until they could coerci the torture

4210
03:59:05,560 --> 03:59:09,600
Speaker 1: or other means confession from them. So, yeah, that that's

4211
03:59:09,600 --> 03:59:12,320
Speaker 1: our fucking police reform. Instead of having a instead of

4212
03:59:12,360 --> 03:59:14,120
Speaker 1: taking the police station to police station, the police have

4213
03:59:14,160 --> 03:59:17,080
Speaker 1: now been reformed so that they have one institutionalized black

4214
03:59:17,120 --> 03:59:20,160
Speaker 1: site instead of multiple ones. Home and Square is still

4215
03:59:20,240 --> 03:59:22,440
Speaker 1: open to this day. That this came out in FI,

4216
03:59:23,040 --> 03:59:25,360
Speaker 1: there have been like over half a decade of protest

4217
03:59:25,400 --> 03:59:30,840
Speaker 1: against it. Um, so supposedly the rules have changed and

4218
03:59:30,880 --> 03:59:32,000
Speaker 1: if you get a rested they have to put you

4219
03:59:32,080 --> 03:59:35,360
Speaker 1: in the system. But square is still open. There's probably

4220
03:59:35,400 --> 03:59:38,680
Speaker 1: another one like somewhere that they've just they've they've they've

4221
03:59:38,760 --> 03:59:40,880
Speaker 1: they've switched which side they're doing their black sites on.

4222
03:59:42,240 --> 03:59:48,760
Speaker 1: And yeah, well, yeah, I have I have a have

4223
03:59:48,840 --> 03:59:53,520
Speaker 1: a closing statement. It is it is an inhuman crime

4224
03:59:54,000 --> 03:59:56,080
Speaker 1: that a single one of these fucking demons is allowed

4225
03:59:56,120 --> 03:59:58,040
Speaker 1: to roam our streets with the badge and the authority

4226
03:59:58,080 --> 04:00:00,360
Speaker 1: to rape, torture and murder us and the certainty system

4227
04:00:00,360 --> 04:00:02,360
Speaker 1: will beat us into a pulp if we attempt, even

4228
04:00:02,440 --> 04:00:05,440
Speaker 1: in the smallest way both symbolic way possible, to resist them.

4229
04:00:06,520 --> 04:00:08,960
Speaker 1: The police must be abolished. There is no alternative. For

4230
04:00:09,040 --> 04:00:11,360
Speaker 1: the sake of our survival, for the survival of children,

4231
04:00:11,360 --> 04:00:13,000
Speaker 1: and for the sake of every generation that is bore

4232
04:00:13,040 --> 04:00:15,520
Speaker 1: its horrors before us. We could only abolish the police,

4233
04:00:15,560 --> 04:00:17,400
Speaker 1: salt the earth upon which it stands, and drive the

4234
04:00:17,480 --> 04:00:19,800
Speaker 1: very concept of policing into a space of such infamy

4235
04:00:19,840 --> 04:00:21,840
Speaker 1: and terror that even the worst among us would not

4236
04:00:21,960 --> 04:00:25,120
Speaker 1: dare to even propose bringing it back. Also, get rid

4237
04:00:25,120 --> 04:00:29,120
Speaker 1: of that last statue. Yeah, that one destroyed. Let's knock

4238
04:00:29,160 --> 04:00:31,400
Speaker 1: that one out of there too. Yeah, I mean, I

4239
04:00:31,440 --> 04:00:34,480
Speaker 1: feel like everyone who's ever been to that site has

4240
04:00:34,640 --> 04:00:39,400
Speaker 1: should have the the the like universal right to take

4241
04:00:39,560 --> 04:00:42,560
Speaker 1: a hammer and maybe you know, maybe maybe an RPG

4242
04:00:43,120 --> 04:00:46,800
Speaker 1: and just like do whatever they want to that building. Yeah.

4243
04:00:46,880 --> 04:00:49,880
Speaker 1: I think the men who continued to like in women

4244
04:00:50,200 --> 04:00:54,120
Speaker 1: who continued to work in CPD, like anyone who was

4245
04:00:54,200 --> 04:00:57,720
Speaker 1: ever arrested by them or or otherwise brutalize them should

4246
04:00:57,760 --> 04:01:00,120
Speaker 1: just forever have the right to just give him like

4247
04:01:00,200 --> 04:01:03,760
Speaker 1: a solid shot to the balls, you know, like just

4248
04:01:04,040 --> 04:01:06,120
Speaker 1: just like they get to wear a little sign around

4249
04:01:06,160 --> 04:01:07,600
Speaker 1: their neck and it's like, oh that guy used to

4250
04:01:07,800 --> 04:01:10,240
Speaker 1: that guy was you know, it was one of Burgess dudes.

4251
04:01:10,680 --> 04:01:13,320
Speaker 1: So anybody who sees them can just give him, give

4252
04:01:13,360 --> 04:01:15,160
Speaker 1: him a little haymaker right in the right in the

4253
04:01:15,200 --> 04:01:20,040
Speaker 1: bread basket. That is a proposal, that is I'm running

4254
04:01:20,040 --> 04:01:22,480
Speaker 1: from the mayor of Chicago. I mean, I I'd look,

4255
04:01:22,680 --> 04:01:26,320
Speaker 1: our bears all suck, so you know, move move over here,

4256
04:01:26,440 --> 04:01:28,120
Speaker 1: and we we we we can propose a solution to

4257
04:01:28,160 --> 04:01:32,960
Speaker 1: this problem that is so unbelievably not proportionately violence to

4258
04:01:33,080 --> 04:01:36,440
Speaker 1: what the police have been doing that it boggles belief,

4259
04:01:37,320 --> 04:01:41,280
Speaker 1: and I'm pretty sure I can still manage to be corrupt. Yeah, yeah,

4260
04:01:41,400 --> 04:01:44,200
Speaker 1: I mean it's Chicago, you can't not. I mean, I guess.

4261
04:01:45,000 --> 04:01:47,360
Speaker 1: I mean life was sort of corrupt. Life's less corrupt

4262
04:01:47,400 --> 04:01:51,160
Speaker 1: than normal. She's just bad. But yeah, it's Chicago. You'll

4263
04:01:51,200 --> 04:01:58,440
Speaker 1: you'll find corrupt, corruption will be foisted upon you. I'm

4264
04:01:58,760 --> 04:02:07,960
Speaker 1: I'm actually fine with that. Well, another another uplifting episode

4265
04:02:08,000 --> 04:02:10,000
Speaker 1: of It could happen. Yeah, I will say this, like

4266
04:02:10,640 --> 04:02:14,440
Speaker 1: Garrison named it last yet earlier today, Hi, here's a

4267
04:02:14,520 --> 04:02:18,120
Speaker 1: problem by you know, and I will say any any time,

4268
04:02:18,200 --> 04:02:20,640
Speaker 1: any time someone tells you that, like, no, it's fine,

4269
04:02:20,640 --> 04:02:22,920
Speaker 1: we're going to reform the police, just like remind them

4270
04:02:22,960 --> 04:02:25,760
Speaker 1: that reforming the Chicago Police Department went was that the

4271
04:02:26,040 --> 04:02:28,160
Speaker 1: reform was that we don't have black sites. We do

4272
04:02:28,360 --> 04:02:32,800
Speaker 1: have we don't have consulidated the black We were from

4273
04:02:32,880 --> 04:02:35,160
Speaker 1: multiple black sites to one black site. And also they

4274
04:02:35,200 --> 04:02:38,680
Speaker 1: probably moved it again just you just have to get

4275
04:02:38,800 --> 04:02:45,360
Speaker 1: rid of that is the essence of police report. Yeah. Anyway, Yep,

4276
04:02:45,560 --> 04:03:01,040
Speaker 1: there's a problem. Okay, bye bye. Hey, We'll be back

4277
04:03:01,120 --> 04:03:04,280
Speaker 1: Monday with more episodes every week from now until the

4278
04:03:04,320 --> 04:03:06,840
Speaker 1: heat Death of the Universe. It Could Happen Here is

4279
04:03:06,840 --> 04:03:09,520
Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from

4280
04:03:09,560 --> 04:03:12,240
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot

4281
04:03:12,320 --> 04:03:14,360
Speaker 1: com or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,

4282
04:03:14,400 --> 04:03:17,720
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

4283
04:03:17,800 --> 04:03:20,440
Speaker 1: find sources for it could Happen Here, updated monthly at

4284
04:03:20,480 --> 04:03:23,720
Speaker 1: cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.