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Speaker 1: Pretty live tennis, all right, everybody. I got to say,

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Speaker 1: when we think about the US Open, there are players

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Speaker 1: that you know, There are players legends that are not

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Speaker 1: here this year. There are also players that are up

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Speaker 1: and coming, maybe not household names, but will be someone

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Speaker 1: who knows them all has written about them, continues to

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Speaker 1: as John Wertheim. He's executive editor senior writer at Sports

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Speaker 1: Illustrated correspondent for the Tennis Channel, so this is a

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Speaker 1: big time working event for him. He is covering the

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Speaker 1: US Open for the Tennis Channel. He's also contributing correspondent

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Speaker 1: for sixty Minutes. He's a busy dude, and he found

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Speaker 1: some time once again to join us here on site

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Speaker 1: at the US Open.

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Speaker 2: How are you good? Pleasure to be here. Nice to

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Speaker 2: see you guys. How are you doing good? Good week

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Speaker 2: at tennis?

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Speaker 1: Right, It's great, got a little cooler. We're kind of

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Speaker 1: loving that coverage. What are you loving about it this year?

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Speaker 1: What's interesting for you?

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Speaker 2: Oh man? You know kind of s's this weird point

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Speaker 2: where Roger Fetter is retired Titan player, everyone loved him.

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Speaker 2: Not here, Serida Williams, Titan not here, rough on the doll,

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Speaker 2: I'm not here. And I think everybody worried, oh man,

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Speaker 2: after these legends retire, what does tennis look like? Is

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Speaker 2: anyone going to care about the sport? And we've kind

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Speaker 2: of made an uncharacteristically great, you know, graceful pivot for tennis.

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Speaker 2: And the grounds are more filful than ever. The attendance

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Speaker 2: is through the roof. It's going to set a record,

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Speaker 2: and it's kind of strange because we have this deficit

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Speaker 2: of stars compared to what we used to have. So

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Speaker 2: that's that's a story I'm looking at.

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Speaker 3: So do we have the deficit of stars or are

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Speaker 3: is Cocoa Goff going to be there? Is Shelton going

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Speaker 3: to be there? Is Alcaraz there?

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Speaker 2: I mean Alcarez could have been there the last yeah,

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Speaker 2: last he's not in the tournament. Yeah, I mean, I

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Speaker 2: think they're bright prospects. I think they're fans that they're

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Speaker 2: players that fans are starting to build relationships with. But

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Speaker 2: you know, we're not talking about guys, you know, twenty majors. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Coco Goths wonderful, but just one. And I kind of

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Speaker 2: feel like fans kind of like the unpredictability of it all,

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Speaker 2: and they don't mind that any of twenty players could win,

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Speaker 2: and they don't mind that Carlos Alcarez wins two tournaments

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Speaker 2: and then loses in the second round here.

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Speaker 3: So when its sense is that better for the sport?

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Speaker 2: It's funny because I think the conventional wisdom is you

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Speaker 2: sort of need excellence to the top. But the NFL,

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Speaker 2: which is the most successful sports league certainly in the US,

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Speaker 2: how's this any given Sunday theory and parody is great

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Speaker 2: and we want all fans to think their team could

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Speaker 2: get to the super Bowl. It's kind of worked out

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Speaker 2: for them. And I think tennis is sort of pleasantly

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Speaker 2: surprised how well things are going in the absence of stars.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think it is that way? You know,

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Speaker 1: We've been talking with various folks from the USTA and

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Speaker 1: they talk about the Zendaya movie Challengers and how much

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Speaker 1: money it made, and you're rolling your eyes.

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Speaker 3: I didn't see it. Actually, I need to.

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Speaker 2: Das Sindaya's rate is quite high, so I don't know,

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Speaker 2: you know how much it I made, But no, I

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Speaker 2: think you're I think tennis is having a bit of

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Speaker 2: a moment, and I think instead of tethering itself to

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Speaker 2: these stars, to Reena, Williams, Rogers, thattter Rofando. I mean

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Speaker 2: it's kind of it's about the culture, it's about the fashion,

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Speaker 2: it's about the international aspects. I mean I think some

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Speaker 2: of it too is just you and I could be

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Speaker 2: playing and it would still be fun to come to

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Speaker 2: the US Open and watch a tennis match. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is such a big event. It's almost sort of, actually, John.

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Speaker 1: And if I was playing, No, it wouldn't be if.

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Speaker 2: They would have Honny deuces and they would have music,

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Speaker 2: and it's I mean, it's almost sort of that they're

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Speaker 2: not player dependent here the way they used to be. No,

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Speaker 2: I think there's a lot to recommend about tennis. I

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Speaker 2: mean I have pet theories about I think. I think

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Speaker 2: pickleball maybe a bit of a help that all millions

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Speaker 2: of millions of people are now sort of understanding what

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Speaker 2: it means to hit a slice, or they have a

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Speaker 2: more appreciation for tennis because they've been bopping around a

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Speaker 2: whiffle ball in their in their yards.

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Speaker 1: Our producer Sebastian and I were watching a match on

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Speaker 1: the side courts here yesterday and we were sitting next

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Speaker 1: to somebody and he was talking about his pickleball, playing pickleball.

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Speaker 2: It's a thing. But I think that translates to tennis. Yeah, No,

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Speaker 2: it's it's just straight. I mean tennis is sort of

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Speaker 2: having this moment and whether it's exactly Zendaan movies or

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Speaker 2: it's the I mean, I just and I don't think

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Speaker 2: anyone saw this coming. I think there was a lot

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Speaker 2: of handwringing about what would the sport look like. It's

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Speaker 2: sort of a happy surprise.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been. It's been really awesome to watch and

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Speaker 3: least be able to cover it over the last few years,

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Speaker 3: and even in those that little bit of times see

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Speaker 3: the growth. Any big stories so far this year at

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Speaker 3: the US Open that are.

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Speaker 2: Sticking out to you, well, I mean I think sometimes

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Speaker 2: they're big stories in Week one and that's you know,

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Speaker 2: you've got either controversy or you have big upsets, and

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Speaker 2: then it kind of leads to a little bit of

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Speaker 2: a fizzle in week two. I mean, this year we've

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Speaker 2: had some upsets. I mean, Carlos Alcarez losing is obviously

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Speaker 2: a big story, and I think a lot of people

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Speaker 2: are sort of perplexed. This is supposed to be the

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Speaker 2: new star. He won the Front Open, he won, wibledon

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Speaker 2: and everyone thought, oh, could he pull the summer triple.

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Speaker 2: I mean, not even Roger Feeder or not even know

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Speaker 2: about Djokovich ever did that. And then he comes out

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Speaker 2: here and he loses in the second round to a

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Speaker 2: guy outside fifty. That's been a strange story. I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, we've had sort of the usual, the celebrities

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Speaker 2: and Aaron Judge was here and Karen Washington. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there hasn't been sort of that huge controversy, which I

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Speaker 2: suspect the US Tennis of mine. We had the longest

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Speaker 2: match in US Open history a few days ago, which

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Speaker 2: was which was good fun. But I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: sometimes week one and excitement and upsets sort of doesn't

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Speaker 2: pay off in week two. So I think we're in

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Speaker 2: a nice place right now on on first Friday as

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Speaker 2: we make this turn.

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Speaker 1: How many opens have you covered?

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Speaker 2: Oh, I'm not trying, You're doing so well, and that

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Speaker 2: you kind of us really depressing a lot. I mean,

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Speaker 2: like since the nineties. Remember the nineties, I remember it was, but.

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Speaker 3: That was a really important era for American men's tennis.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I sort of caught the very very

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Speaker 2: tail end of Sampress Agasy and that I sort of

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Speaker 2: came up, you know, I came up with like I

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Speaker 2: think mack and Roe.

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Speaker 1: And Connors before, and they all looked at me like

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Speaker 1: I was eve I know, nineties, Yeah exactly, Oh sorry,

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Speaker 1: go ahead.

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Speaker 2: No, it's just funny because the game sort of takes

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Speaker 2: on different identities and and it was it was Tampras

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Speaker 2: Agassy and then you had the Williams sisters and you

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Speaker 2: sort of had this international. I mean, I was here

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Speaker 2: when Andy Ronick won and you said, oh, this is

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Speaker 2: fresh American champion. And then here comes Roger feder Rofnadal

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Speaker 2: and Novak Djokovic that basically ate everyone else judge for

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Speaker 2: twenty years, and now we're at this sort of I mean,

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Speaker 2: obviously Djokovic is still here, he's a defending champion. He's

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Speaker 2: somehow he's thirty seven years old. I would say, do

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Speaker 2: you guys remember just sidebar, remember when Jimmy Connors had

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Speaker 2: that crazy run in nineteen ninety one. He's thirty nine

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Speaker 2: years old, and it was sort of, well, it's everybody drinking,

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Speaker 2: they're jaratol, and there were a lot of jokes and

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Speaker 2: he's gonna have to go to bed early and someone's

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Speaker 2: gonna have to chop up his steak into bite sized pieces.

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Speaker 2: Djokovic is only like eighteen months younger, and we haven't

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Speaker 2: mentioned his age once. He's just a contender to win

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Speaker 2: the title. Like, look how far we've come. So look

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Speaker 2: how far we've but you knew it exactly.

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Speaker 1: Think about that, just coming off the Olympics. I was

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Speaker 1: a gymnast as a young kid, and I mean to

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Speaker 1: look at Simone Biles, right, and normally you have a

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Speaker 1: good season, maybe you're really young, but look at like,

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Speaker 1: I just think there's is there something happening in sports

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Speaker 1: where yeah, people can go the distance and why not?

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Speaker 2: I have two theories you want him real quick. One

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Speaker 2: of them is just it's that emolution. It's sports science,

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Speaker 2: so they get appropriate for a Bloomberg audience. Tom Brady,

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Speaker 2: it's commerce, it's money, it's I mean, these players have

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, Billy jan King used to come

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Speaker 2: in the back of a station wagon. Now you've got players,

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Speaker 2: they've got their own messuses, they've got their own teams.

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Speaker 2: They're not standing in line waiting for the Hurts rental

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Speaker 2: car counter.

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Speaker 3: To Oh, they're getting private jets.

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Speaker 2: I think exactly, and I think that has the extension

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Speaker 2: it's a career.

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Speaker 3: Partly because they have deals with private jet companies.

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Speaker 2: Well that too. It doesn't doesn't hurt when you have

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Speaker 2: that endorsement.

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Speaker 1: But if they didn't play well, I mean they're playing

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Speaker 1: well though.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, science, they can avail themselves to all the cold

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Speaker 2: plunges and the trainers and the physios and I mean

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Speaker 2: all is Tom Brady similar? And I think Lebron James

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Speaker 2: is still going strong and yeah, twenty years into this career,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's because they can afford career extensis.

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Speaker 1: This one's done a cold plunge by the way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, very popular, They're very popular. I I mean, who

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Speaker 3: knows its scientists, But this might be a good time

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Speaker 3: to talk doping might be all right, what's the deal?

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Speaker 3: I don't in the sport. I mean, I.

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Speaker 2: You want my honest Yeah. I believe that incentives explained

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Speaker 2: an awful lot of human behavior. And I get why

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Speaker 2: some athletes will dope. I get why some athletes who

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Speaker 2: might be trying to, you know, have this career resurgence

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Speaker 2: laid in their career with dope. I can see how

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Speaker 2: young athletes. I just I don't think I mean obviously

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Speaker 2: we're talking about Jon Ecenter and number one everyone given

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Speaker 2: the tournament, and we have this sort of strange story

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Speaker 2: where he had failed too doping tests from about five

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Speaker 2: months ago, but was essentially exonerated and found no negligence,

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Speaker 2: no fault because the trainer essentially was careless and used

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Speaker 2: to us the substance that was legal in Italy but

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Speaker 2: it is not is on the bad list. And I

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Speaker 2: just I get the skepticism. I understand sort of whether

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Speaker 2: there are a lot of players who are very suspicious

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Speaker 2: about this. I just I'm I always look at incentives.

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Speaker 2: Why would a guy with a one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: million dollars Nike deal starting his career in March when

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Speaker 2: they're no major tournaments for months and months. The amount

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Speaker 2: was so minuscule it wouldn't enhance its performance. It just

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Speaker 2: doesn't make sense that he would intentionally dope. That may

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Speaker 2: sound naive. I think they're probably means naive to say

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Speaker 2: there's no doping in tennis, But I also think it's

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Speaker 2: such a sport that depends on hand eye coordination and

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Speaker 2: focus and mental toughness. It's not as though putting on

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Speaker 2: five pounds of muscle is really where the action is.

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Speaker 2: I think the doping probably might help with recovery and

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Speaker 2: with some of the cardio. Again, I don't think it's

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent clean. I don't think any sport is.

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Speaker 2: But in this case, I just the facts of the

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Speaker 2: case that the process is disturbing. It's very strange the

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Speaker 2: usually you hear about this right away. Usually there's a

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Speaker 2: strict liability standard where hey, we don't care what happened.

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Speaker 2: It's in your system. You're the CEO of your system, right,

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Speaker 2: You're guilty. That wasn't the case. I mean, I think

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Speaker 2: there are a lot of process questions.

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Speaker 3: Does that give you pause? The lack of process questions?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think the way this handled, people

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Speaker 2: are gonna have to go back and really pick this

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Speaker 2: apart and figure out why it was that this guy

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Speaker 2: played for five and a half months, which which is

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Speaker 2: very rare in tennis. You mentioned why wasn't there the

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Speaker 2: publicity that usually accompanies some of these announcements. There are

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Speaker 2: a lot of players saying, boy, I wish you know.

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Speaker 2: I tested positive too, and I also was eventually exonerated,

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Speaker 2: but I had to take the reputational hit, yeah, or

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Speaker 2: I couldn't play or I couldn't play. So I think

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Speaker 2: the way this was handled raises a lot of questions.

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Speaker 2: But I just, I mean, I guess everyone's speculating. I

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Speaker 2: just don't think you don't.

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Speaker 3: Your point about incentives is really interesting because I didn't

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Speaker 3: think you were going to go exactly thought the other way.

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Speaker 3: And I come from a world of cycling where you

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Speaker 3: know doping is and has been rampant for years, and

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Speaker 3: you know a tenth of a second or that much

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Speaker 3: more power is what ends up mattering in the end

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Speaker 3: of a race. And the idea when you said incentives,

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Speaker 3: I thought, oh, incentives to win. But no, you're saying

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Speaker 3: that there's too much to lose for these players.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I mean you think about how much of

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Speaker 2: these players income and networks had nothing to do with

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Speaker 2: prize money. It's image, it's reputation, it's what they represent,

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Speaker 2: that's how they care themselves. You are jeopardizing all of

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Speaker 2: that to win a couple of tennis matches in Indian Wells,

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Speaker 2: California in March. I don't, I mean, I get. I

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Speaker 2: don't want to be naive here. Everyone's one thing that's

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Speaker 2: interesting about this to me is that some very credible,

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Speaker 2: very knowledgeable, very reasonable former players agree with me and

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Speaker 2: sort of say it doesn't make sense. The amount was

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Speaker 2: so minuscule. Very credible, very reasonable, very educated former players say,

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Speaker 2: something's really fishy here. The amount might just be that

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Speaker 2: he was cycling off of it. Don't be seduced by

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Speaker 2: sort of the fractional the sort of infinitesimally small amount.

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Speaker 2: Don't be naive. And the guy got caught twice, what

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Speaker 2: more do you need? So so, even within tennis, even

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Speaker 2: in the sort of inner sanctum there, they're very divergent opinions.

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Speaker 2: I just think, like, you get to a point with

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Speaker 2: your reputation and your net worth and how much sponsorship

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Speaker 2: you have. I mean, these players can make four or

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Speaker 2: five million dollars for being a worldwide brand ambassador. That's

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Speaker 2: more than the US Open champion will make. Right, why

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Speaker 2: would you jeopardize that? In March over this infant I

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Speaker 2: again is a vanishingly small amount of banned substance.

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Speaker 1: Well, but we see in our world very wealthy people,

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Speaker 1: financiers who have tons of money and yet do something

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Speaker 1: that breaks the law just to get a little bit

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Speaker 1: more money, right, And you think, really, like, why did

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Speaker 1: you do that. But but I hear what you said.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's a fair point. I mean, the risk

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Speaker 2: reward calculus is not always uh you know, so.

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Speaker 1: You know, like could have been the like do you

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Speaker 1: blame the coach?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I mean that's sort of where this falls. Is

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Speaker 2: essentially that the trainer and again the substances. It's legal

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Speaker 2: in Italy, but on the box it says doping, so

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure where And I mean someone else is Listen,

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Speaker 2: your job as a trainer, what are your big jobs

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Speaker 2: that you.

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Speaker 1: Put it down, move it, actually get it away from me?

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Speaker 1: You know what?

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Speaker 2: You know, aspred works pretty well too. There are alternatives,

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Speaker 2: but Bassett tracing will cover that that cut as well.

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Speaker 2: It was a really strange set of circumstances and it's

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Speaker 2: almost a look, if you're a trainer, your number one

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Speaker 2: job basically is to get anything even potentially illegal or

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Speaker 2: on the band list away from the athlete. And here's

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Speaker 2: a guy putting it on his hand and then giving

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Speaker 2: the athlete an ungloved massage. The flip side is, don't

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Speaker 2: people do dumb things? I don't. I mean, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's it's definitely it's been I mean inside these doors

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Speaker 2: where we are now. It's still a weekend of this tournament,

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Speaker 2: very much being discussed.

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Speaker 3: You talk about that a little bit because what we're

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Speaker 3: at the Bud Collins Media Center and you go inside here,

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Speaker 3: this is where all the journalists are, right, what's the

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Speaker 3: what's the vibe been like covering this with the other journalists?

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Speaker 2: Is the story in particular?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Well is that? I mean this story is still dominating.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the players his initial press release and

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Speaker 2: I you know, whatever we all have, we're all familiar

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Speaker 2: with press releases. I look forward to putting this issue

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Speaker 2: behind me. And you want to say, oh, that's oh

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Speaker 2: do you Yeah, that's not really.

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Speaker 3: How It's one way to keep the issue front and center.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right.

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Speaker 1: We know this is what you would like.

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Speaker 2: I just want to move on.

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Speaker 1: But that's you.

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Speaker 3: But the other players have been really supportive of him.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like some of them, some of them. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'd say it's been very guarded. Actually, yeah, I mean

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Speaker 2: I think given the range, I mean sometimes sort of

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Speaker 2: my guilty pleasure is UFC is fixed martial arts. There

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Speaker 2: anytime someone there's a doping violation, everybody piles on and

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Speaker 2: sort of says, listen this, I knew this guy was cheating.

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Speaker 2: This is much more guarded. But these are sort of

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Speaker 2: these very sort of meticulously worded sense. Nobody is falling

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Speaker 2: on the grenade, and no one's a couple of former players.

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Speaker 2: Nick Curios is here, and he's made a number of

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Speaker 2: sort of incendiary statements. It's been very I've sort of

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Speaker 2: been surprised at how little support he's gone. There does

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Speaker 2: seem to be real questions about the process. And everyone's

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Speaker 2: got a friend, everyone's got a colleague who had a

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Speaker 2: similar circumstance and didn't have the luxury of six or

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Speaker 2: seven figures worth of legal representation, and sort of this

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Speaker 2: this cakewalk just sort of get this thing buried five

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Speaker 2: and a half months later.

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Speaker 1: The money that continues to come into sports, good, bad

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Speaker 1: and different, Like how do you feel about it? How

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Speaker 1: do you think about it? Gambling?

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Speaker 2: We'll talk about that. I mean, I think that, but

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Speaker 2: I think that's it. I think it depends on the sort.

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Speaker 2: Look any any industry, we like money coming in and

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Speaker 2: we like we like more investment and not less. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think sports are a pretty robust sector. I think

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Speaker 2: it depends what I mean, we can there's a sportswa

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Speaker 2: washing component to this. Do we like money when it

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Speaker 2: comes from the golf region, Well, that comes with some

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Speaker 2: strings attached. Do we like money when it comes through

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Speaker 2: sports gambling? And that's been a huge infusion of cash

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Speaker 2: for teams and leagues and media, not so much for athletes.

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Speaker 2: We can talk about that. That's been a big topic

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Speaker 2: among the players and the players lounge is a sports

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Speaker 2: gambling we can we can talk about that. I think

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Speaker 2: media money, you know, great if if ESPN wants to

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Speaker 2: re up here. I mean, very few properties are actually

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Speaker 2: going to come up for renewal anytime soon. But look,

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Speaker 2: if the NBA can make billion dollars a season from

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Speaker 2: its media rights deal, like that's great, especially when they're

355
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Speaker 2: fifty to fifty split with the players. So right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think it depends. I think in the rule of thumb,

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Speaker 2: you know, commerce good h But I think it depends

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Speaker 2: on the source.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about the conversations that players are that's being

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Speaker 1: talked in terms of gambling, because they don't necessarily get

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Speaker 1: a piece of it, do they?

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Speaker 2: No? I mean, in this sport, it's really problematic and

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Speaker 2: team sports. Look, it says fifty to fifty revenue split. Right,

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Speaker 2: So if the NFL does a billion dollars with DraftKings,

365
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,920
Speaker 2: that's half of that and theory goes to the players.

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Speaker 2: Tennis does not have revenue sharing like that. They also

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Speaker 2: forbid the athletes from using the product, which is standard

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Speaker 2: for most sports. And what happens to tennis is that

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Speaker 2: the play a big gambling sport. I mean, tennis is

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Speaker 2: like the third most gambled on sport. There are millions

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Speaker 2: of matches they're eli inventory all over the world. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's crazy using there are two guys playing in a

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Speaker 2: parking lot and there are three fans. Wi We're not

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Speaker 2: talking about the US Open here. I mean there are

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Speaker 2: all these low level events and they're you know, three

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Speaker 2: fans watching, but they're tens of thousands of dollars being

377
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:59,040
Speaker 2: wagered on this match. It is ripe for corruption. But

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Speaker 2: the what's really problematic to the players is that they

379
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,840
Speaker 2: get a lot of abuse from losing. Gambo. You cow,

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Speaker 2: I just lost one hundred dollars because you can't hold

381
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Speaker 2: your serve. And the players are saying, wait a second,

382
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,880
Speaker 2: we don't get the revenue, we can't even use the product.

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00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,920
Speaker 2: That's a little problematic. I mean, you guys are getting

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00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:17,600
Speaker 2: all this endorsement money in the problem, you know, the

385
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,719
Speaker 2: product itself we are forbidden from using. You guys can

386
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Speaker 2: sell the signage and you can get the data rights deal,

387
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Speaker 2: which basically just means selling data to bookies. And not

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Speaker 2: only do we not get any revenue, we open up

389
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Speaker 2: our phone and we have a stream of messages that

390
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Speaker 2: are just the most vile thing you've ever heard from,

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Speaker 2: you know, from aggrieved gamblers.

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Speaker 3: Right, this seems very problematic.

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00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:41,199
Speaker 2: It's really problematic.

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00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:42,159
Speaker 1: You've tweeted on this.

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00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:44,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's it's really I mean, tennis needs

396
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,760
Speaker 2: a lot more player representation. It's probably I mean, I

397
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,560
Speaker 2: think it's problematic across the board for any of a

398
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Speaker 2: hundred reasons, but at least football players and basketball players

399
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Speaker 2: are seeing some of that money. These players get all

400
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,719
Speaker 2: the downside, you know, they open their phone and they

401
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,760
Speaker 2: get death threats because they missed a forehand. And the

402
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:03,960
Speaker 2: tournaments are the ones that can put the signage on

403
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 2: the back wall saying you know, DraftKings and fanduels.

404
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,000
Speaker 3: And it's such a solitary sport too, so it's not

405
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,560
Speaker 3: like a team is getting the hatred it's this individual

406
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,480
Speaker 3: and everything is riding on this this one individual. So

407
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:16,520
Speaker 3: what's the solution there.

408
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's it's naive to say. I mean,

409
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,040
Speaker 2: in a perfect world, maybe tennis says listen, not for us.

410
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:25,520
Speaker 2: We're not going to give you our data. I mean,

411
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,200
Speaker 2: there are ways to turn off the spigott. I don't

412
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,840
Speaker 2: think that's realistic. A bit more revenue to the players

413
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,560
Speaker 2: would at least give them some skin in the game.

414
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,080
Speaker 2: At least they're essentially getting paid for the abuse they're taken.

415
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,159
Speaker 2: I also think you have to monitor this. I mean,

416
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Speaker 2: when I can't wrap my brain around with you, guys

417
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,520
Speaker 2: can help me with this. I can't order an uber

418
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,440
Speaker 2: and say my name is you know, Moscow Mule eleven seventeen.

419
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,960
Speaker 2: I can't. I mean, the anonymity I think would end

420
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,000
Speaker 2: a lot of this. Why is it that I can

421
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,760
Speaker 2: send a player a death threat and bear no consequence

422
00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:59,879
Speaker 2: when they lose a tennis match, but I can't. I

423
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,320
Speaker 2: can't go on Amazon and use a pseudonym. I mean,

424
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 2: there might be.

425
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Speaker 3: Somebody who launches rockets. You might want to talk to

426
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Speaker 3: you about this. Oh yeah, you exactly. Yeah, that's what

427
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:09,360
Speaker 3: I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: No, it's like there's a whole world right now and

429
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Speaker 1: try to figure out the responsibility or they.

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Speaker 3: Verified accounts that are just pay ten bucks a month

431
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,000
Speaker 3: or whatever eight a month. Sweets get surfaced. It doesn't

432
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:20,560
Speaker 3: matter who you are.

433
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's probably just gonna make it all worse in

434
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:23,199
Speaker 1: terms of you.

435
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,600
Speaker 2: Know, an AI, what AI and sports gambling inner Second,

436
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,919
Speaker 2: my issue with sports gamling right now, we are at

437
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,920
Speaker 2: the uh remember when you know, did you have Joe

438
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,560
Speaker 2: Cammell kids magazines? You had vending machines in high school

439
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,000
Speaker 2: selling cigarettes. This is a smoking set, really the smoking

440
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,360
Speaker 2: section plan as if the smoke knew when to stop it? Did?

441
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,359
Speaker 2: I bet we're I think we're at that phase with

442
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,440
Speaker 2: sports gambling. We're gonna look back and we're gonna say,

443
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,680
Speaker 2: what you were allowed to do this? The player's got banned?

444
00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:52,560
Speaker 2: The cat out of the bag now, I mean there's

445
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,399
Speaker 2: no Yeah, I think there's regulation, and I think there's some.

446
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I think whatever the cliche, you know, two

447
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:00,920
Speaker 2: toothpas isn't going back into two. But I think we're

448
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 2: gonna look back at this period and say, was there

449
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,639
Speaker 2: no regulation whatsoever?

450
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,119
Speaker 1: I mean, would you expect at some point there's going

451
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,360
Speaker 1: to be some big blow up of something.

452
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 2: Whether that's a great point because I think I think

453
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,000
Speaker 2: the way the leagues and again this is one of

454
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 2: the great about faces and sports. I mean ten years ago,

455
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,719
Speaker 2: the leagues would say that this is the most sinister thing.

456
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 2: They all, you know, every everybody went into Capitol Hill

457
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 2: to say, why passed BA the you know, the legislation

458
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 2: should be overturned and why And then they ever in

459
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,480
Speaker 2: the league essentially did it about face and said, yeah,

460
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 2: you know what, you know, this is a lot of

461
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 2: revenue we're passing up and we need sunlight. We need

462
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 2: legal legal gambling is better than illegal gambling. And the

463
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 2: one thing the league said was that the threat of

464
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 2: corruption is going to be lessened when it's public, right,

465
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,399
Speaker 2: We're gonna have all this data, we have all this access.

466
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,840
Speaker 2: It's like marijuana. It's sort of gonna decriminalize. And I

467
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,400
Speaker 2: think in a very short amount of time this started out.

468
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,680
Speaker 2: There were a couple of college scandals, and there was

469
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,600
Speaker 2: a baseball coach you tip someone off, and then now

470
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, we have the sho Heo Tani,

471
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,360
Speaker 2: you know, the MVP of reigning MVP. Well he wasn't. Yeah,

472
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,959
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it looks pretty clear he wasn't corrupt,

473
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 2: but someone very close to him was siphoning money out

474
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 2: of his account to pay his detce. We have them.

475
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 2: Someone on the Toronto Raptors is now banned from basketball

476
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,200
Speaker 2: globally because I think the water level is getting very high,

477
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,160
Speaker 2: and I feel like we're we are one Black Sox

478
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 2: type scandal away from this thing really imploding. I think

479
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 2: right now there are a lot of people who are

480
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 2: bringing their hands and it's it's great. We love this

481
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 2: infusion of revenue. And some stadiums have sports books, you know,

482
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 2: I'm you know, Sports Illustrated, Tennis Channel, CBS, ESPN.

483
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 1: I mean ESPN in Vegas does it?

484
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 2: I mean every sports media exactly.

485
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:46,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure Mickey is not into this.

486
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:48,200
Speaker 2: You don't think no.

487
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 1: I mean again, like on ESPN, you couldn't mention points.

488
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 2: Spreads a few years ago. That my favorite, my favorite

489
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 2: story of all these is that the Vegas Chamber of

490
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 2: Commerce wanted to buy a Super Bowl ad about twenty

491
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 2: years ago, and the NFL said no because it's too

492
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 2: adjacent to gambling. And it was just Las Vegas and

493
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 2: the Super Bowl. Yeah, it was in the Chamber of

494
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,479
Speaker 2: Commerce exactly. And now the Super Bowl is in Las Vegas.

495
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 2: The announcers are telling you what the points spread is,

496
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 2: and pretty soon we're just gonna go to NFL dot

497
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 2: com and bet on football games on the NFL's website.

498
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,239
Speaker 2: I mean, the the about face on this is, uh,

499
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,399
Speaker 2: it's everybody in the.

500
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 1: Pool, like it's totally I feel like we've been remiss

501
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 1: because I you earlier this year, you did something on

502
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 1: CBS Sunday Morning and it was about defending Sports Illustrated

503
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 1: its relevance. And you know, our producer Paul Brennan, faithful

504
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: reader for forty five years, starting when he was a kid,

505
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 1: loved the magazine version, you know, and we were confused.

506
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 1: If there is a print version there still is, right,

507
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 1: what does the world lose by not having print versions?

508
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 2: First of all, I've said that they're surprisingly and against

509
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 2: all odds, there seems to be a very happy resolution here.

510
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 2: I did that piece for I don't know when that was,

511
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 2: maybe February. I did that piece for CBS Sunday Morning,

512
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 2: and it was really a problematic time for Sports Illustrating.

513
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 2: We sort of had this white night, this company Minute

514
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 2: Media stepped up and you know, we're knocking on plywood,

515
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 2: and so far, so good. It's sort of a miraculous

516
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 2: happy media story. I mean to me, it's not so

517
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 2: much that the print versus digital. I mean, you know, candidly,

518
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,439
Speaker 2: print is a lot. You know, it's a smaller part

519
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 2: of our life than it was just a few years ago.

520
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 2: To me, it's just sort of that the independence of

521
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 2: it all and the fact that you don't have to

522
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's fear and favor, and it's writing

523
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 2: about things without a partnership with the league, and there's

524
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 2: no conflict of interest. I mean to me, that's what's

525
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 2: lost with this changing media landscape. And my attitude is like,

526
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 2: I don't care if it's TV or digital or the

527
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 2: phone or print or whatever it is, as long as

528
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 2: it's getting to consumer. To me, it's just the independence,

529
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 2: and I think that's that's that's sort of what my

530
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 2: great fear was at the time, that this is just

531
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 2: another media entity that's going to be swallowed up. And

532
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 2: now everything's sort of mediated through a league, a team,

533
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 2: an athlete themselves, which is great, but you also need

534
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 2: some sort of objectivity and agreed happily Sports Illustrated UH,

535
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 2: kind of sort of a comeback story in twenty twenty four.

536
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 2: I'm happy to tell you good, very cool.

537
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that. I also, I love that

538
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: you love Trader Joe's.

539
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 2: But you hear that I love Trader Jet. I know, Oh,

540
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 2: I love Trader Jet. Love to say that he's not

541
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 2: a conflict of interest. I'm an unpaid folks.

542
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: It's out there. It's good stuff. Thank you, thank you

543
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: so much.

544
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 2: Oh, pleasure, this is a pleasure.

545
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: We always feel like it's just such a smart.

546
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 3: Dive and he's in the flesh. This year isn't a flash.

547
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 3: He's here, speed zoom.

548
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 1: The Tennis jo is going to be calling like, hey.

549
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, get back to Santa Monica now, pleasure.

550
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: No, no, don't, don't don't. John Worthiam, of course, as

551
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 1: we said, he is covering the US Open for the

552
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: Tennis Channel. He's executive editor senior writer at Sports Illustrated UH,

553
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: and of course correspondent for sixty Minutes