1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace about fifty percent of marriages 2 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: in America and in divorce, that's a given. You got 3 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: a fifty fifty shot. But what about the children caught 4 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: in the crossfire we are talking now about stand with Sophie. 5 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: Can you imagine sending your little girl back after a 6 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: weekend visit into a home where she claims mommy's boyfriend 7 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: is molesting her and it's all cord and sanctioned. First 8 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to Dave Matt Crime online 9 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: dot Com. Kelly and Michael Long are in a bitter 10 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: custody battle. It heated up when a video of their 11 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: nine year old daughter, her Sophie, Win viral During a 12 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: custody swap, Sophie refuses to get out of her father's suv. 13 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: In the nearly twenty minute video, Sophie can be seen 14 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: and heard screaming at her mother and grandmother, begging to 15 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 1: stay with her dad. At one point, she can be 16 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: heard telling her grandmother that her mother's fiance, mister Jake, 17 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: touches her, and her mother watches she repeatedly asks, why 18 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,839 Speaker 1: don't you believe me? Guys? Before we go one step further, 19 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: I want you to hear it for yourself. Take a 20 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: listen to this recording, Sophie, this little girl screaming, refusing 21 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 1: to get out of the car and go with her mother. Listen, 22 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: this is Sophie had I think her hands her hands 23 00:01:54,360 --> 00:02:17,399 Speaker 1: start hearing. Now, what's her, Sophie. That is not how 24 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,119 Speaker 1: you speak to your grandparents, to your father or your grandfather, 25 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: that let's put the seat up. No convenient that the 26 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,399 Speaker 1: seats don't and we can't get their seatbelt. I don't 27 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: want to pre hands in their sweet John Joy, Sophie. 28 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 1: You know, sometimes we have to do things we don't 29 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: want to. But when churches and policemen say this is 30 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: what we have to do and how to do it, 31 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: I'm good. Cheryl McCall, director of the Cold Case Research Institute. 32 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: Why they are saying to her, asking her, don't you 33 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: know this is how you talk to your grandmother instead 34 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: of saying, honey, what is wrong? What's wrong? I don't 35 00:02:55,680 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: get that, Nancy. Clearly, this little girl needs help. She 36 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:05,239 Speaker 1: sounds petrified. I mean, she's crime, she's screaming, she's trying 37 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: to tell them in every way she doesn't want to go, 38 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: and why she doesn't want to go guys, let me 39 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: introduce our panel to break it down and put it 40 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: back together again and try to get to the truth 41 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: of what is happening to nine year old Sophie right 42 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: here under our nose. This this is going on in Texas. 43 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: Who's not to say, it's happening all over the country, 44 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: enforced visits, enforced custody while a child is allegedly being molested. 45 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: With me crime online dot com investigator, reporter of Levi Page. 46 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: As you've already heard, Cheryl McCullin, director of the Coldcase 47 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: Research Institute and crime scene expert, we're now psychologists joining 48 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: me out of New York Karen start at Karen stark 49 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: dot com. Special guests joining me now the attorney for 50 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: Sophie's dad, Michael Long, Jamie Graham, who is fighting tooth 51 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: and now, and special guest Sophie's dad who has never 52 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: given up trying to get his daughter back. Michael Long. 53 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: Michael Long, you were there during the recording of Sophie, 54 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 1: your nine year old daughter, screaming not to get out 55 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: of your car. Were you driving? Yeah, it was I 56 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: was driving the car. I'd gone with my father that 57 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: day too, to do exchange in Lazy Lake, two Texas. 58 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: So you had so Sophie's nine, correct, it's and you 59 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 1: have two other sons? Is that right? Do I actually 60 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 1: have three other sons, but two other with with my eggs? Okay? 61 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 1: So are they Sophie's bio brothers? Yeah? Yeah, Okay, then 62 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: you've got one other that's a step brother. Yeah, between 63 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: my wife currently, okay, got you? Okay with me? Guys. 64 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 1: Sophie's dad, Michael long the screaming, Yeah, Sophie's just a 65 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: bone chilling scream from the a child, your daughter. Now 66 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: you brought your father along with you. That was smart. 67 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: Why did you do that at that point? What was 68 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: going on? I have been advised to have witnesses available 69 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: and also to document these exchanges because there had been 70 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: prior exchanges where Sophie didn't want to go and I 71 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: was being blamed for holding her back when in reality, 72 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: Sophie was standing up and saying that she just simply 73 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: couldn't go. You know that is not unusual, Cheryl McCollum. 74 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: You know, I've learned the hard way by watching my 75 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: colleagues in the DA's office take a statement or taught 76 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: to somebody. I've done it. Myself. Luckily didn't backfire on me. 77 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: But then as soon as you leave the room, they go, oh, yeah, 78 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: I didn't say that, that didn't happen. You really have 79 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: to have somebody with you. How many times, Cheryl, have 80 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: you seen a case blow up because nobody was there 81 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: when the statement was taken. Nobody was there when the 82 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: incident occurred. So it's your word against their word. That's 83 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: not uncommon. Absolutely listen, if there's not a witness, it 84 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: didn't happen. I mean, that's just he said. She said, 85 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: it's going to no nowhere. But in this case, again, 86 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: what stands out for me is a nine year old 87 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: little girl is telling her grandmother mister Jake is touching me, 88 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: and MoMA's watching. She's very clear, she's very specific, Nancy, 89 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: and she gets even more specific in letters to her dad. 90 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: You know when it all hit home with me, Cheryl McCallum. 91 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: You may remember this case. I prosecuted a guy. He 92 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: was super wealthy. He owned all the horse drawn carriage 93 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: and limo trade in the city of Atlanta, and I 94 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: was a young prosecutor and trying the case all on 95 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: my own. He had a fleet of lawyers, a fleet 96 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: and I dug up seven similar transactions where he had 97 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: been He had thirty five natural children by many different women. 98 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 1: He had been beating his daughters and molesting them for 99 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: years and years and years. And what I found out 100 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: is very often you speak to the children and then 101 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: they will change their minds. They'll recant because they're scared. Cheryl. 102 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: Of course, Nancy, this child has advocated for herself verbally 103 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: and in writing. I would really be interested to see 104 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: what her teachers may know or have her or friends. 105 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: That's a good point, because she did, thought Cheryl. But 106 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: when I was talking about that case that I prosecuted, 107 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: the mother of the current three victims, two little girls 108 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: and a teen girl, was living with the defendant and 109 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: both of her little girls, ages three and five, were 110 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: being full on raped, and the mother knew it. That 111 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: set me to thinking, how many times mothers know and 112 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: do nothing. They protect the boyfriend a lot of the time. 113 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: But let me tell you what thing, Nancy, you worked 114 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: a major, major child molestation case where a guy got 115 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: sixty three years. And one thing I remember about one 116 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: of those victims. She was young, she was a little girl, 117 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: but she kept articulating how the defendants smelled. Sophie does 118 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: that too, you know, you know what, that is very important, 119 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: I hear, Michael long jump in, Michael, just a hof 120 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: in real quick. You as are making a really good point. 121 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: But one of the things that I've heard is going 122 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: through this process that we're having happen all over the country, 123 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: is that children are staying home because of the COVID crisis, 124 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: and as a result, they don't have the same access 125 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,479 Speaker 1: to their teachers that have those one on one conversations 126 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: or adults present where they could disclose. I know that 127 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: in the case that we're dealing with, this was one 128 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: of the challenges that Sophie had is that her friend 129 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: network had been cut off by her mother and she 130 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: didn't have access to adults in her vicinity that she 131 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: could talk to anymore. You know what, Michael, quick job, 132 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: here's what's going to be really important, Michael. Those teachers 133 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: that she had had access to first grade, second grade, 134 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: if they can articulate this is not the Sophie I know. 135 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: It still shows a major change in her personality, and 136 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: she was excess You're right in the first three years 137 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: in school. She was a student of the year in 138 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: her third grade. She's in fourth Now Crime Stories with 139 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Let me reiterate before we say one more 140 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: word that Sophie's mom says. This is absolutely not true. 141 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 1: I mean, just put that out there, guys. For those 142 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,599 Speaker 1: of you just joining us, you may have heard of 143 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 1: Stand with Sophie hashtag stand with Sophie, a nine year 144 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: old little girl whose dad says she screams bloody murder 145 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: every time she has to go back to her mom's house. 146 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: Mom lives with fiance. She claims fiance molesting her and 147 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: does not want to go back. But you heard the 148 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: mom telling her. When the judge and the policeman tell 149 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: you you gotta do it, you gotta do it. I 150 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: want you to take a Listen to recording of Sophie 151 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: begging not to go back to mom. Listen where you 152 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: know mom? When I taught you off, we had a 153 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: really good time. Remember this. Do you hear? I'm not 154 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: minding you. I have to undo your secret. We have 155 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 1: to do this. I'm sorry. You don't. Yes, you actually 156 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: you don't. Yes, No, you don't watch her. I'm gonna Sophie, Elicia, 157 00:10:46,280 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: that is not appropriate. Leaves don't. I I'm not This 158 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: is Atney here, No, Sophie, you're asked us to. I 159 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 1: can't tell you how. Every one in the studio right 160 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: now can't even look up as you hear Sophie screaming 161 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: at her mother and grandmother and she does not want 162 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: to go to the home to Karen start joining me, 163 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: psychologist joining us today out of Manhattan. Karen, you know 164 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: what the mom says, this isn't true. Daddy's making it 165 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: all up to torture me. Dad is saying, oh, hell yes, 166 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:55,359 Speaker 1: it is true. Whatever is true. The child is screaming 167 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: not to go home to mommy. How can a stud 168 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: of the year be acting like this? I mean, I 169 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: gotta tell you, Cared, I've told you this before. Some 170 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 1: of the best witnesses I've ever put on the stand, 171 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: the ones I believe the most. We're children, well, because 172 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: children are innocent, They're so innocent. So when you hear 173 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: something like this, Nancy, it really makes you question what 174 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: is going on here. And one of the things that 175 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: I noted was that the grandmother it seems very perplexed, 176 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: like what happened? Where is myselfie? The mother is being 177 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: very strict, you know, like this is not appropriate. What 178 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: does appropriate have to do with the fact that whatever 179 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: is going on, she does not She's insisting I do 180 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: not want to go back there. I won't And she's 181 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: very specific about what she's saying. And as Charyon McCullen 182 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: keeps mentioning Nancy, and this is significant. She goes to 183 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: the extreme of trying really hard to communicate to her dad, 184 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: here's what's happening. And she comes up with these letters. 185 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: And she's nine years old and has code words for 186 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: things that are going wrong in this home. So something 187 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: is wrong. You know what. I want to follow up 188 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 1: on that right now. Guys, Just so you know that 189 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: judges put a gag order on the parties in this case, 190 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: so there may be times where Sophie's dad, Michael and 191 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: their lawyer Jamie Graham out of Texas, may not be 192 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: able to answer our questions, but we're going to ask 193 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: him anyway. Michael Long, I know you can't comment on 194 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: any other parties such as your ex wife in this case. 195 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: I understand that. Can you tell me about the code 196 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: words and who devised the code words that your daughter 197 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: writes in her letters to you? Yeah? Absolutely so. Well, 198 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: after communication during the springbreak handoff was when we really 199 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: really first noticed that there was a problem with her 200 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: not wanting to go back, but we had sent her 201 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: back with some paper and envelopes and stamps and just 202 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:11,719 Speaker 1: told her if she wants to mail letter, she can, 203 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:13,719 Speaker 1: And the letter that ended up out there is the 204 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: first letter that we got back. And she included these 205 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: code words herself, so that if we're on a FaceTime 206 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: call and she's being monitored, she could say a word 207 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: that would alert me to call the police to know 208 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: that she's in trouble. What were the code words, Well, 209 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: the main word was mocking jay. That was her big 210 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: danger word. But she had like roses and pins and 211 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: all sorts of different things for different levels of issues 212 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: that could be going on. Did you say mocking J Yeah, 213 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: mocking J. Did she come up with that? Yeah, she'd 214 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: watched The Hunger Games and mocking J. Just something about 215 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: that character and standing up for herself stood out to her, 216 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: and that's what she chose to put at the bottom 217 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: of the letter. To think about it, Cheryl, that a 218 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: little girl nine years old, I mean when I was 219 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: nine years old, gosh, still riding my bike and looking 220 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: for bugs and the holdening fort side of pine straw 221 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: looking for fairies and trolls in the backyard. This little 222 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: girl is screaming not to go home with mommy, claiming 223 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: fiance is molesting her and that mommy knows it. And 224 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: now she's got to come up with code words. According 225 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: to dad, well, you know, a lot of children are 226 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: given a code word to make sure that the right 227 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: person picks them up from school, is Mamma kain't So 228 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: they do know codord. But it stands out for me 229 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: is she's specifically rump. If she uses dandelion or daisy, 230 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: that means she's in danger. She uses the word danger. 231 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: Next of all, this is a very smart child. This 232 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: is a child that knows what is having. She knows 233 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: it's wrong. She's told every single adult in her life 234 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: all now today, you're hurting me, Cheryl. She's told all 235 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: the adults, guys, whatever you think. Who's telling the truth. 236 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: The mom says, this is all a lie. The dad says, 237 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: oh no, it's not a lie. You can't be confused 238 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: about this. This child is in turmoil. This child is 239 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: at the end of her rope. This little girl. To 240 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: any of you have a little girl or a little boy, 241 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: I've got one of each. And I don't think I've 242 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: ever heard them scream the way this child is screaming. Listen, God, 243 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: what are you doing? No, I don't care. Now you 244 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: have to come who You won't open the door. You 245 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: won't open that when we're talking about I got the 246 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: door open, You get if you have a door open already. Yes, 247 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: do anything Kim he advised us to do. But it's 248 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 1: hurting me. I'm not hurting her to put off ID 249 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: I didn't ask you to put on a fit. You 250 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: are hearing the mom stating this is what you're this 251 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: is what our lawyer told us to do. She, the 252 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: little girl, is putting on the fit that you asked 253 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: her to put on. The dad saying he did not 254 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: ask her to put on a fit, joining me. The 255 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 1: attorney for dad, Michael Long, the dad of Sophie stand 256 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: for Sophie Jamie Graham with us trial lawyer out of Texas. Jamie, 257 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: did they have a fifty fifty split? What was the 258 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: custody arrangement going into this? Actually the cut the arrangement 259 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: was a standard possession order in Texas. That's that's every 260 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: other weekend basically Thursdays sixteen. I mean he only got 261 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: his daughter every other weekend. Yes, well what it was, 262 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: so it's not a fifty fifty split. The way it 263 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: works in Texas, we had we'd arranged because she'd moved 264 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: so far away, so we ended up getting her for 265 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: an extended period, like an extended week in the month. 266 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: We'd had her for summer's spring breaks and the holiday's 267 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: alternating years for Christmas. So that's the standard possession order 268 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: can either be the first and third weekend of the 269 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: month and fifth if it falls, or the second and 270 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: fourth And in our case, it was decided because of 271 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: the distance to take it easy on the kids and 272 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 1: actually making an extended period at one time a month. 273 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 1: Will you say, e standard period? What do you mean 274 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: by that? So like, well, well, let Menny interject real quickly. 275 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: As far as he had to give a fourteen day 276 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: notice with regards to getting a weekend out of the 277 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: month after she moved to Frisco, Texas, I didn't think 278 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: under the law that one parent could take the child 279 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: away from another parent, like move out of the state 280 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: or move far away. In Texas, we do have a 281 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 1: public policy of continuing frequent contact with both biological parents, 282 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: So we do have that and geographical restrictions are pretty 283 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: pretty much the norm here in this particular case. Initially 284 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: there was not a geographical restriction at all. Crime stories 285 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Okay, guys, we're talking about a little 286 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: girl who has created a huge, huge social media firestorm. 287 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: You may have heard hashtag stand with Sophie, a nine 288 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: year old little girl who refuses to go home to mommy, 289 00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: claiming fiance molests her and that Mommy knows let me stay. 290 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: Mommy swears it's not true that the daughter's been put 291 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: up to this. I'm still not understanding this. It just 292 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: give me a yes no, Jamie Graham, if that's possible. 293 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 1: So Michael, Sophie's dad, only got Sophie every other weekend 294 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,479 Speaker 1: and then holidays extend to visit over summer. Okay, is 295 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: that right? That's right. COVID has caused a little bit 296 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: of a disconnect with regard to the visitation schedule. So 297 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: essentially they had mom had sixty six days before the outcry, 298 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: and then after that Michael had a majority of the summer. 299 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: So it's been a little bit. Well, the answer is 300 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: the answer is that he's got to give fourteen days 301 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: notice for his weekend over the for the next month. 302 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: So he's got to give fourteen days notice in order 303 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 1: for him to get access. Leavi page Crime online dot 304 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: Com investigate every porter. Is the split that the dad 305 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: get Sophie before this every other weekend and mom has 306 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: her every other weekend and during the week. That is 307 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 1: a yes. No, I don't care if it's been disrupted 308 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: about COVID. I'm not asking about the summer break. I'm 309 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: asking you what is thus split? Nancy notes, No, what 310 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: it was is I got an extended week ind a 311 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: month except for obviously these holidays that have designated in 312 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: these extended periods. That was agreed to because of the 313 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 1: distance between us after she'd moved it down. So often 314 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: would you see Sophie during the school year prior to COVID? 315 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: I would see her three days a week on a 316 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: FaceTime call Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays for about ten minutes 317 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: each day. That was it. We'd get three a week. Okay, 318 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: So I think I finally got the answer. Leave page 319 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: please correct me if I'm wrong. The father in this case, 320 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 1: Michael Long, would see his nine year old daughter Sophie 321 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: every other weekend except for occasional three day weekends. Is 322 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: that correct? Leave? Please? Can somebody say yes, no, that's correct? Nancy? Okay, 323 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. Stop right there. I get it. 324 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: My point that I've been trying so desperately to make 325 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: is that Karen Stark, knowing what Sophie is telling him, 326 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: he would have to send her back to the home 327 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 1: for the majority of the time. I mean, under the split, 328 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: he gets her every other weekend, and here his daughter's 329 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 1: telling him she's being molested. I'm surprised he didn't go berserk. Yeah. 330 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 1: I don't understand it myself, Nancy, because under these circumstances 331 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: where she's letting him know she has code words and 332 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: she's letting him know she's in trouble, I don't understand 333 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: the courts. Actually, if that is that all he's been allowed, 334 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense. I don't even understand how 335 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: the mother was allowed to lead to that far away 336 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: from him. None of this makes sense to me personally, 337 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: especially when a child is in danger, none whatsoever. Guys, 338 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: I agree with Karen STARKTT doesn't make sense with me. 339 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: With me is Sophie's dad, Michael Long and his lawyer 340 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: Jamie Graham out of Texas if you're just joining us, 341 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: I want you to hear what happens when Sophie is 342 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: told she's got to go back home with the mom 343 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: and the moms did did he live in? Is he 344 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: a live in? Jamie Graham? Yes he is. Did they 345 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: ever get married? I don't believe so, Michael, do you do? 346 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: You know? No? In fact, they were just it was 347 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: her boyfriend before we started in this most recent court 348 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: stuff and then it beginner fiancee. Are they really engaged 349 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 1: as you have an engagement ring? I have no idea. Okay, 350 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: all right, listen, I know that much. Roll it Sophie 351 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: and me defend. I don't know. I can't know. Why 352 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: can't you, guys? I can't. I don't want you know? 353 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: Can you can you want to talk to her? Only? Yes? 354 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: I do not want to come. I'm going Jack, there 355 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,719 Speaker 1: be good to talk to me. We used to get 356 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: along really really good. We had a really really good 357 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 1: fun in my vehicle. If you can't get her to 358 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: come out of the vehicle at her own will we 359 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: have a really really good relationship. I dropped you off. 360 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: We had fun with playati we do on pipes and 361 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: stuff like hotept nothing something no, Dad, I had no, 362 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: I don't. I am not coming? But why because I don't? 363 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: Why not home? What you don't want to do? You 364 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: are hearing this child, nine year old Sophie, screaming not 365 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: to go home. Now to Jamie Graham, the attorney for 366 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: the dad, is it's my understanding that your client, Michael Long, 367 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: Sophie's dad, and his ex wife Kelly, have been in 368 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: a very long and tumultuous custody battle for Sophie since 369 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 1: their divorce in twenty fifteen. At first there was a 370 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: fifty fifty split, then the wife moved two hundred miles 371 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: away and got full custody. Is that correct? Will full 372 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 1: custody in Texas are a little different? We have a 373 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: we have a public policy of making sure that joint 374 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: managing conservatorship is in the best interests of the kids. 375 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: So that's a little different than you know when you 376 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: start talking about full custody. It's really different between the state. Okay, 377 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: So what does full custody meaning in Texas? Well? I 378 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: mean meaning primary They call it primary conservatorship and so 379 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: joint managing conservatorship. And when you have that, you have 380 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: the primary right to establish the domicile. That's that's our 381 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: custody case in Texas. Okay, but he's still even though 382 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: mom moved her two hundred miles away, your client, Michael Long, 383 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: could still see her every other weekend. It was just 384 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,719 Speaker 1: very difficult. Yeah, it had been, but I mean they 385 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: have made some agreements. I mean they were doing very 386 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: well as far as making agreements with regard to a 387 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: possession and access for the kid. Is it true that 388 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: both parents have a history of calling CHOP Protective Services 389 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: on each other and that up to now none of 390 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: those complaints have been substantiated. I agree with that, with 391 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,719 Speaker 1: the exception of one thing. Michael did not call CPS um. 392 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: I think he called CPS twice on the outcries UM. 393 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: With regard to the other CPS allegations, they were called 394 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: by doctors physicians that were you know in the in 395 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: the e R when Sophie went into BBR. Why did 396 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 1: Sophie go to they are called by Yeah, we're several 397 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: issues with regard to vagenitis UTI that Sophie had stop everything, 398 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: Stop everything. Cheryl McCollum, forensics expert, Cold Case Research Institute 399 00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: Director Cheryl, I've had so many cases where little girls 400 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: have vaginal infections. There's no reason for a little girl 401 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: to have a vaginal infection. Okay, I mean sometimes you'll 402 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: hear somebody claim it's bubble bath. I don't know that 403 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: I buy into that. But inn oh, that's not right 404 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: right there. You're not even supposed to know you have 405 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: a vagina at that young age, I mean much. Let 406 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 1: us have an infection, right, her having a chronic infection, 407 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: her having abdominal pains, pains so bad they take her 408 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: to the emergency room. Again. The doctors should have made 409 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: a notification. There's no question about it. And Nancy, I 410 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 1: just wanted wa wait, wait, wait, wait wait. This is 411 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: the first time I'm hearing about vaginal infections. Okay. Now, 412 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: you may not want to hear about that, guys, but 413 00:27:48,880 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: this is a part of child molestation cases crime stories 414 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. You may attribute this case to parents 415 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: hating each other after a divorce in a custody battle. 416 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: But when a little girl has vaginitis, if this is true, 417 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: and vaginal infections, that is physical evidence that something is 418 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: not right in this case. Let me understand this. Jamie Graham, 419 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: you are an attorney from Michael Long, the diat of Sophie. 420 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: When you become a lawyer, you swear on the Bible, 421 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: you take an oath as an officer of the court 422 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: to try your best to never do anything unethical. And 423 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: are you telling me, Jamie Graham, that this little girl 424 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: has gone to the doctor and she has been diagnosed 425 00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: with vaginal infections. The evidence will show that for sure. Well, 426 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: that changes everything. To me, that just changes everything because 427 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: up until now, Cheryl McCollum, it could be argued that, oh, 428 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: the parents hate each other, they're using the little girl. 429 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: When the little girl is diagnosed with a vaginal infection, 430 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: repeat vaginal infections, that changes everything, Charyl. Forensic evidence that 431 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: is solid. There's no question about it, Nancy. And again, 432 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: let me just be real clear for people that are listening, 433 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: having physical forensic evidence is fantastic. But even if you 434 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: think this child made this up, if you still think that, 435 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: you have to believe there is something terribly wrong in 436 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: order for her to do that. So this case still 437 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: exactly needs to have everybody advocating for Sophie. Exactly why 438 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: throw this fit, Why the screaming they refus to get 439 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: out of the car if she's not telling the truth. 440 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: There's still something very wrong. Guys, I want you to 441 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut seven please, I can hear. 442 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: I don't is real life. Why don't you want to 443 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: hear anyone your I don't give the lost touching That's okay, No, 444 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, because I do want to know who's 445 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: gonna touching? What is it mean? What does it happen? 446 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: And oh maybe feels that if a hie eavy like 447 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: is the hwhere I'm telling the truth. I'm not funny, 448 00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: I am not and and hard. Even blood in her underwear. 449 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen a lot of cases where parents 450 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: coach the child to say something. But who would come 451 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: up with say there's blood in your underwear one morning 452 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: when you woke up. That's that's very hard for me 453 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: to imagine a parent telling a nine year old girl 454 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: to say that. And if this girl is not telling 455 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: the truth, Meryl Street, watch out because she is going 456 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: to win the Academy Award. I find it very difficult 457 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: to believe that this child is lying in the face 458 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: of her mother insisting she get out of the car, 459 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: and the grandmother too. I mean, you know, think about 460 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: it to you, Jamie Graham I'm sure you've tried a 461 00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: lot of cases under cross examination. Liars crack. This little 462 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: girl never cracked. I couldn't agree with you more honestly, Okay, 463 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: I want to be fair and give you the side 464 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: of what the mom is saying. Jackie, Please play the 465 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: sound from the mom's side. Trust me, I know the 466 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: full story. He's done this repeatedly. It happened in twenty sixteen. Also, 467 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: he was accusing me of sexually abusing them, and my 468 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: dad is sexually abusing them. So okay, so I guess 469 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: this time. Like I said, the reason why we're out 470 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: here is because I got a call, I guess from 471 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: him saying, you know, the kids tested positive. I know, 472 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: trust me, I'm pretty pissed off about it because it 473 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: wasn't from me, and it wasn't from Jake, and they 474 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: spent an entire weekend with Michael, and then all of 475 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: a sudden he popped up positive for drugs. Like I 476 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: think Michael's ex husband, Michael's X husband here, Okay, Like, 477 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: I have my lawyer actively involved at this point because 478 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: he has called CPS like twenty times in the last 479 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 1: two weeks. How long ago was it the child tested positive? Yeah, yeah, 480 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: apparently he took him on last weekend when they were there, 481 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: and says, opens okay, let me understand what's happening, Jamie Graham, 482 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: you were hearing the sound of the mom Kelly. One 483 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: of the boys whose Sophie's brother. Actually they're little boys. 484 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: I mean they're under what there aren't they Twains tested 485 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: positive with cocaine in his system, and that is while 486 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: he's at the mom's house. She responds by saying, well, 487 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: he's been visiting his dad before, now seemingly pointing the 488 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: finger at dad. Tell me what that's about, Jamie Graham. Well, 489 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: there is there, there are, there is something to be 490 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: some friends to govern which shows that that Jack, the 491 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: middle child, did come up positive for cocaine and and 492 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: there want to use um. There will be also a video. 493 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: Quite frankly and super uncomfortable about talking to this talking 494 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: with regard to this, because boy, don't don't say anything 495 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: else here Levi page climb online. What's the business about 496 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: one of the boys, boys with cocaine in his system? 497 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: And a nutshell, Nancy, that is what the mother of 498 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 1: Sophie is a legend, pointing the finger at the father, 499 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: saying it's the father's small that happened while he was 500 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: in his father's custody, and of course of Michael is 501 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: denying that and saying it's not true. Nanc Michael, I'm 502 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: happy to talk to this one. Jump. Yeah. So they 503 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: were actually at a state with a person who had 504 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,720 Speaker 1: been convicted of a drug felon and we had noticed 505 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: very very strange behaviors of Jack over our FaceTime call. 506 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: After had not having him for sixty six days, my 507 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: wife and Jack's grandma took him into a lab in 508 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: Cooma County actually had him do as you're a tolerant 509 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 1: care folical test on the first day that we got 510 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: him after again sixty six days. It was the result 511 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 1: of that that led to that call that you're you're 512 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: listening to. So, yeah, he did test positive for cocaine 513 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 1: and marijuana. We brought us to the authorities, the Advisor 514 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: and advance, and that's what the call you're looking at 515 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,919 Speaker 1: as the result of Once the police showed up maccrime 516 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: online dot com, where is the case stand? Now? You've 517 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 1: had over a quarter of a million people join hashtag 518 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: stand with Sophie Nancy. Actually a new bombshell in this case, 519 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,320 Speaker 1: a negotiated settlement was reached out of court with no judge, 520 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: no trial hearing involved. I just booked with Kelly Long's attorney, 521 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: David Rownson. Here's what he told me. We did have 522 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: a hearing scheduled in the courthouse, although we didn't end 523 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: up having a hearing, But yeah, things have transpired and 524 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: changed since, certainly as of Friday. Instead of going in 525 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 1: front of a judge, you guys have met outside of 526 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 1: court and have come up with an agreement that is correct. 527 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: And I'd say that's pretty typical of family law cases. 528 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: The parties, the attorneys, and the parties work to see 529 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: if a solution, if some sort of agreement can be 530 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: reached to help children, and the judge is encouraged people 531 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: to see if there's a way to do that in 532 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: almost every case and this one's no different. And so 533 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: I think the parties and the attorneys worked diligently for 534 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: hours to come up with an agreement temporarily, of course, 535 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: nothing is permanent here to try to at first, honestly, 536 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: the first priority was on the health of the kids, 537 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: and I think the parties reached an agreement that was 538 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: and again I stress this was a voluntary agreement. No 539 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 1: one had to agree to it. There's been some discussion 540 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: out there that it may not have been voluntary, but 541 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: it absolutely was. It was something both parties, the attorneys 542 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: felt like at this time was in the interests of 543 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: the kids, all right. So in this negotiated settlement, Kelly 544 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: immediately receives multiple unsupervised extended visitations with Jack and Lucas. 545 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: Kelly will begin a reunification says with Sophie. The agreement 546 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: also says that all the children will begin counseling immediately 547 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: to help them navigate this extremely difficult time. Plus, Kelly 548 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: will receive frequent, ongoing communication with their children while they 549 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: are with Michael. Is there going to be a smooth 550 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: movement of bringing Kelly back into their lives. Yes, that 551 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: is absolutely the plan. And I'd rather not be specific 552 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: because of some of the things that have gone on 553 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 1: in the past with people being involved in these you know, 554 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 1: her having the children, and I'd rather not make it specific. 555 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 1: But yes, unequivocally, she's going to have time with the 556 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:44,359 Speaker 1: children coming up, starting with the boys. They are going 557 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: to be participating in counseling that will include her, that 558 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 1: will also include Michael and working to reunify and bring 559 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: the kids back to the place with their mom that 560 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: they have been erupted over the past month or so. So, 561 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: as you go through this process, is there a real 562 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: plan at unifying, Oh, is there a stairstep like this 563 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: month they'll have x amount of time? Is it structured 564 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 1: like that or is it really going to be based 565 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: on what a counselor recommends. It's hard to answer your 566 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: question exactly. No, there is not a specific, say, you know, 567 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 1: six month stairstep plan or anything like that yet. The 568 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 1: counselors will be playing a role in that, as well 569 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 1: as the parties, as well as the attorneys, as well 570 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,240 Speaker 1: as the attorneys. The amicust attorney to the new amicist 571 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,359 Speaker 1: attorney has been appointed, as well as the guardian ad 572 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,799 Speaker 1: litem another accounts or an attorney role in the case 573 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: that's been appointed by the court to advocate for the 574 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: best interests of the kids, all of them, all of 575 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: us will be participating in that how that goes forward. 576 00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: So it's kind of hard to say exactly what's going 577 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 1: to happen as far as the exact time. You know, 578 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: we can't stay right now that two months from now, 579 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 1: Kelly will have this much time, and Michael will have 580 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: this much time because there's still a lot of fun 581 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: answered questions about the health of the kids, and they 582 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: want to have a chance to do that first. And 583 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: I think the kids, you know, I think it's important. 584 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: I mean the kids. You know, we believe strongly that 585 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 1: the kids have been I want to use the right words, 586 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,279 Speaker 1: they've been that there's been coaching, that there's been things 587 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: going on that would interfere with their relationship with their mother, 588 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: and we want that stop. And I think it's going 589 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 1: to take some time for the experts, the counselors to 590 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 1: work with the kids so that that's not a problem 591 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 1: going forward, and before she has, you know, say back 592 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: to a primary custody arrangement that's going to need to happen. 593 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: Now you mentioned the amecist brief and the attorney. This 594 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: actually has the same weight as it would if a 595 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: judge handed it down by accepting the terms of the 596 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: agreement that were negotiated by both parties. The judge signed 597 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: off on it, and it's got teeth right. Absolutely, it's 598 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: the best of both worlds in a sense. It is 599 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 1: an agreement that voluntarily was entered into. And for example, 600 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 1: I have to say. I put it out there that 601 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:30,840 Speaker 1: the mister Long voluntarily agreed that my client will have 602 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 1: unsupervised time with the children. That you know that he 603 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,399 Speaker 1: felt like that was in the best interests of these kids. 604 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 1: And I think that's important to remember that he's choosing this. 605 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: But as you say, it did, it did does now 606 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: have the effect of a court order because the judge 607 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,400 Speaker 1: then signed the written agreement, so we are bound to 608 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,480 Speaker 1: follow it. So the fact that he thought that that 609 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 1: was in their best interests, he is now bound to 610 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 1: follow that. And I think it's it's it's very instructive 611 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 1: to think about it in the sense that all of 612 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 1: the medical providers, the experts that have been in taking 613 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 1: a look at this case now for two months, medical providers, nurses, doctors, 614 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:33,400 Speaker 1: the amarchists who was involved. There have been CPS people involved, 615 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: detectives and police departments. There is no case against Kelly Long. 616 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,920 Speaker 1: They've all looked at it. They don't see what Michael 617 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 1: Long claimed was there. And I I have a feeling 618 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: I know what he would say to that that it 619 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:58,800 Speaker 1: was something from a child. But again, everyone looked carefully 620 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:05,359 Speaker 1: at this and there's no abuse. There's no evidence out there, 621 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: and I think to me, voluntariness of reflecting that we're 622 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: going to work towards reunifying the children with Kelly. I 623 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: would say that's a reflection of understanding that it is 624 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 1: best for the kids to be with their mom, that 625 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,480 Speaker 1: that's not a danger to these children. And I think 626 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: that voluntary agreement that's now a court order, I think 627 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 1: it signifies that. I think it absolutely signals that they 628 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: need both parents. They need to be with both parents. 629 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 1: There's not a danger from either parent. How does Kelly 630 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 1: feel about this right now? After the last month or so, 631 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,000 Speaker 1: I know it's been very hectic and tormenting at times. 632 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:55,359 Speaker 1: Is she satisfied with this agreement? She is? Just as 633 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 1: I said, it was voluntary, but Michael is voluntary for Kelly. 634 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: Is she happy with where things are at. No, she 635 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:03,759 Speaker 1: doesn't think that things should be where they're at with 636 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 1: the kids. She doesn't believe she should ever have been 637 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,880 Speaker 1: denied the right to be with her children, to have 638 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:14,839 Speaker 1: them with her. No, but she understands where things are at, 639 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,520 Speaker 1: and she wants to be with her children more than anything. 640 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,960 Speaker 1: She thinks that, you know, trust me, she misses them greatly. 641 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:29,400 Speaker 1: You know, the emotions that she's you know, had to 642 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,960 Speaker 1: deal with over the past month, not seeing them, not 643 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:37,279 Speaker 1: being allowed to see them. You know, it's been very 644 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:41,320 Speaker 1: difficult for her, very it's been I would say heartbreaking 645 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:48,279 Speaker 1: at times. She's really struggled. She's strong, and you know, 646 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,719 Speaker 1: she's excited as anything. She's going to be seeing them 647 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:55,600 Speaker 1: real soon. And she's very excited about that. And I think, 648 00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,360 Speaker 1: you know, she can't wait to start that mom that 649 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,440 Speaker 1: she has been for all these years in their lives, 650 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,600 Speaker 1: and this agreement will give her that chance again. Wow. 651 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 1: But it sounds like after all of the after everything's 652 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,279 Speaker 1: said and done, we're looking at six to eight weeks 653 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,520 Speaker 1: of the children being separated from their mother in a 654 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,040 Speaker 1: very overly dramatic way for the whole world to see. 655 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: But there were some very very real accusations made by 656 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,720 Speaker 1: a child by Sophie. And I am going to assume 657 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,479 Speaker 1: at this point, since there is this agreement in place, 658 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,480 Speaker 1: that we're now saying this didn't happen. I think at 659 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,280 Speaker 1: this point I'm not really I can't. I'm not the expert, 660 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,280 Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I can tell you my client unequivocally, 661 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:50,640 Speaker 1: unequalvoically believed it didn't happen. You know, it's hard to 662 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 1: say in that sense of from a child's perspective. I mean, 663 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,399 Speaker 1: like I said, I can tell you my client says 664 00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:03,200 Speaker 1: that it did not happen. She did not allow those 665 00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:09,800 Speaker 1: types of things to ever happen. And you know, I 666 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,440 Speaker 1: think that leads you to the potential conclusion, which is, 667 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: again we're a bit premature on in the court process, 668 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:24,480 Speaker 1: but from Kelly's perspective, if you didn't, if it didn't happen, 669 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,320 Speaker 1: why would a child say that? Well, you have to 670 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,560 Speaker 1: look at whether that child's whether that idea was planted 671 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:37,719 Speaker 1: in that child's mind. And as hard as that is 672 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 1: to want to believe, I think what our position is, 673 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:47,200 Speaker 1: that's what happened here, and you have to look at 674 00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:52,760 Speaker 1: why that would happen. Why would somebody make those claims 675 00:45:52,960 --> 00:46:00,680 Speaker 1: and then encourage people to give money. You know, it's 676 00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,600 Speaker 1: sad to think, but that's where the conclusion leads you. 677 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,520 Speaker 1: Are there still websites trying to solicit funds from the 678 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:13,719 Speaker 1: public on behalf of the children or Sophie. I'm aware, yes, 679 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:22,279 Speaker 1: will they be coming down anytime soon? The agreement in 680 00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,680 Speaker 1: the court order did not expressly state that they had 681 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:29,360 Speaker 1: to know, sometimes you have to deal with agreements that 682 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,120 Speaker 1: don't include everything you want, right put it that way, Okay, 683 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:33,880 Speaker 1: So you're dealing with these one at a time. So 684 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,480 Speaker 1: in the grand scheme of things, right now, today you 685 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:42,239 Speaker 1: guys have a handshake agreement. The family is family being 686 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,000 Speaker 1: the children with both parents. They're going to try to 687 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,960 Speaker 1: co parent, unify, get the children back seeing both parents 688 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,239 Speaker 1: on a regular basis, having a healthy, happy relationship as 689 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,080 Speaker 1: we move into the holidays. Is that what I'm hearing. 690 00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:01,080 Speaker 1: That's the goal, that's the plan. Um. I think two 691 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,600 Speaker 1: things I would mention UM. I kind of hesitated around 692 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,279 Speaker 1: the concept, but I one of the things I deal 693 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,480 Speaker 1: with in my work at times, and it's a real thing, UM, 694 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:12,920 Speaker 1: and it is something we're concerned about in this case. 695 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,600 Speaker 1: Is the concept of parental alienation. UM. When a parent 696 00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:23,200 Speaker 1: chooses to you know, uh, coach, manipulate, put ideas in 697 00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,880 Speaker 1: a child's head against another parent. UM. It can have 698 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,200 Speaker 1: some really damaging effects for children. And I think that's 699 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,040 Speaker 1: one of the things that that our experts in this 700 00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,640 Speaker 1: case are going to be looking at try to deal 701 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,279 Speaker 1: with with these kids. And that's it's it's sad that 702 00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:41,279 Speaker 1: it happens um. And I think that's something that that 703 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,360 Speaker 1: you know, we want to make sure has stopped, and 704 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,279 Speaker 1: that's why we're putting things in place to make sure 705 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:50,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't occur going forward. The other thing is the 706 00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:57,000 Speaker 1: you know, the um, the way that that mister Long 707 00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:01,880 Speaker 1: handled things. Um, if you really think about it, the 708 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:06,839 Speaker 1: claims that he made that, uh, you know, how did 709 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 1: he handle it? I don't think it's been best for 710 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:14,040 Speaker 1: the kids. He didn't enroll them in school, he didn't 711 00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,080 Speaker 1: take them to counseling. He had them for a month, 712 00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,400 Speaker 1: and he didn't do any of that. Um. He I 713 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:23,880 Speaker 1: think I think there was there was, you know, some 714 00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,839 Speaker 1: lip service to to some things, but nothing of any 715 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,560 Speaker 1: substance occurred in the entire four weeks he had the kids. 716 00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:35,040 Speaker 1: And if you're really concerned about children, you would take 717 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,240 Speaker 1: actions like those, you would take actions, and he didn't. 718 00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:44,080 Speaker 1: And Kelly is demonstrated for basically all these kids' lives 719 00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:48,359 Speaker 1: that that's what she did. She took care of them. 720 00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:52,680 Speaker 1: She you know, she was the one taking care of 721 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:59,000 Speaker 1: these kids. And it's our goal, obviously, is to return 722 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:03,840 Speaker 1: that and restore that. And I think that the public's 723 00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:08,040 Speaker 1: perception of things was skewed and the real story of 724 00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:12,560 Speaker 1: what's gone on with Kelly. There were false accusations made 725 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,880 Speaker 1: and the kids have suffered, and we're working hard so 726 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,080 Speaker 1: that they'll be restored to the way it was where 727 00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,960 Speaker 1: they were getting what they needed in the parenting name. 728 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,160 Speaker 1: And there you have it, Nancy. Both parties agreed to 729 00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,239 Speaker 1: a negotiated settlement out of court with no judge or 730 00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,560 Speaker 1: trial hearing involvement. It was a mediation that didn't involve 731 00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,080 Speaker 1: any testimony or evidence from either party. And one more thing, 732 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:39,600 Speaker 1: the amicust attorney strongly recommended that the children's mother, Kelly Long, 733 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:45,000 Speaker 1: be the sole conservator. We wait as justice on a 734 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,799 Speaker 1: false Nancy Grace com story sided off