WEBVTT - Episode 5: The Alternate Suspect 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:04.320 There's someone I regally should tell you about. At this 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.080 point in the story. Let me take you back to 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:11.640 that hot Chicago summer of eighty nine. President Reagan is 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:14.520 just handed over the reigns of power to George H. 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:18.599 W and Bette Midler's wind beneath my wings is riding 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:23.640 high in the charts. Twenty four year old Dana Feitler 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:26.400 has succumbed to the brutal gunshot wound to her head. 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:29.400 The police are searching for her murder, and they have 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:33.400 their sights on an assemblage of the usual suspects, but 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:39.440 no evidence to work with until that is, a promising 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.639 witness comes forward, and then well you know this bit. 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:46.280 The statements pile up until the big switcher room witness 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:50.000 becomes prime suspect, and after a positive ID from a 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:53.519 dog walker who saw Dana moments before the attack, Lee 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:58.440 Harris is arrested, convicted, and sent away for life. Except 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:03.160 that's not the whole story. See before Lee even entered 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:06.880 the picture, there was another suspect in the Dana Fightler case. 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:12.959 That summer night, a security guard named Damon Prestige is 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:17.200 out doing his routine rounds in the Gold Coast twice, 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.800 he sees a man with a distinct limp acting real strange. 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:27.080 First the guy threatens him honky top, motherfucker, you're gonna 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:30.720 die tonight, and then later he sees the same man 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:35.160 down in alleyway trying to evade eye contact. And then 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:39.399 there was the dog walk. She'd id'd Lee in a lineup, 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:43.240 but see, that was not the first id she made 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.920 in the case. When she initially came forward saying she 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:50.840 had seen Dana Fightler with three black men, the first 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.920 thing the police did, long before Lee was even on 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:57.160 the scene, would show her a photo array of seven 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:01.800 black men they already had on file. Immediately, she points 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.560 to someone, a notorious Atticut with a violent rep who 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:09.720 stalked the area, and as it happened, he had a 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:14.239 limp from an old gunshot. One the dog walker instantly 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.440 recognizes him as the one who was holding Dana's hand. 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.880 How sure are you, they ask her, nine point five 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:28.000 out of ten. Over in Cabrini, there were rumors that 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:30.639 a local hooligan had been bragging about murdering a white 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:33.840 lady for drug money. Two people had even come forward 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:36.919 with statements to the police, but when police brought him 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:41.720 in He denied being involved. His lie detector test indicated deception, 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:46.880 but he had an alibi, his girlfriend, and she passed hers. 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.360 Police went to search her apartment anyway, and when they did, 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:55.120 found several pieces of clothing belonging to her boyfriend, including 0:02:55.400 --> 0:03:02.760 a blood spattered red sweatshirt. But by this point the 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.640 police were already elbow deep with Lee turning out statement 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:10.320 after statement en route to twenty two. The man with 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:23.440 the limp, he was never mentioned again. I'm dack stilln 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:39.080 loss and from iHeart Podcasts, this is Crying Wolf episode five. 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:41.200 The alternate suspect. 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:48.080 Well, I mean, he had an alibi, but it wasn't 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.320 an unbreakable alibi. It wasn't a very good one. 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:55.560 This is the Andrea Line lawyer extraordinary, the Angel of 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.720 death Row. You heard from her in the last episode. 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:01.360 You know, I mean, frankly, the only alibi I like 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:03.120 is my client's in jail at the time. I mean, 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:05.480 it's really hard to and even that they'll still charge 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:06.720 you or only I've had that happen. 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:09.280 As you know, she was one of the lawyers Rappingly 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.800 during his trial back in nineteen ninety two. Back then, 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:16.840 it was obvious to her that the alternate suspect, let's 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:21.279 call him Tony, and his alibi required some further scrutiny. 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:24.040 Normally, you are at home with your family. I mean, 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:27.360 that's a normal thing, but there's an automatic suspicion that 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.320 that person's going to lie for you, and they never 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.680 suspected her. We tried to talk to her and she 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.240 refused to talk to us. You know, we can't make 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:37.239 anyone talk to us, which is the defense. We can't 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:39.080 force them to talk to us. So if they say 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:39.719 they don't want to talk to. 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:43.440 Us, we have to leave. Andrea was clear Tony was 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:43.920 their guy. 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.320 I was sure of it, and I became more sure 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:52.200 of it as time went on. I wasn't sure who 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.760 did it with him. I had an idea. We you know, 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.400 we ran his sheet and we saw co defendants on 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.680 other cases with him, and we figured probably saying group. 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:04.719 But you know, we didn't have arrest power. We couldn't 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:08.120 make him or the girlfriend talk to us, and the 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:12.320 police just let it go. I don't understand why. I 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:18.600 really do not understand why. 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:21.719 It's sobering to you hear just how easily the cops 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:25.440 gave up when Andrew was so sure, but maybe there 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:29.159 was another path. Andrea and her partner Shelby Prussac couldn't 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:31.880 push back on their alibi. But they still had the 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:35.280 blood spatters on the red sweatshirt. Could they get them 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:37.760 tested to see if they belonged to Dana Feiler? 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:38.520 Well? 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:40.360 I mean, one of the things is at the time, 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:44.719 DNA was not in the criminal justice system. 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:45.560 It was new. 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:50.800 The ability to identify someone or exclude someone just wasn't 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:52.040 available to the defense. 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:57.680 The tests available at the time, secretor tests were pretty crude. Basically, 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:00.720 they could only tell you a blood type. The best 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:03.440 you could hope for was an exclusion, but more often 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:07.719 than not they came back inconclusive. This time was no different, 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:09.320 So it. 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:09.800 Was a wash. 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:12.039 It didn't prove anything one way or the other. 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:16.280 Turns out the bloody sweatshirt story had more lives than 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.360 a cat. Now, I'm gonna need you to buckle in 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.600 because this is a bit of a story and it's 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:27.960 also kind of wild. As you might imagine, Lee had 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:31.280 plenty of time to ponder the sweatshirt situation in prison, 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:34.839 and then one day, while in Juliet, he is quite 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:40.040 literally confronted with it. Remember Tony the sweatshirt's owner. He's 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.760 standing right in front of him, and he has something 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:46.680 extraordinary to say, Sorry, I got you into my mess. 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:52.360 Lee is floored. This is basically a confessional, and so 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.680 in two thousand and one, nine years into his jail sentence, 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:59.560 Lee decides it's high time to get that sweatshirt tested again. 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:03.479 The technology has advanced leaps and bounds in the past decade. 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:06.880 Secret or tests have given way to forensic DNA testing, 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.760 and real life exonerations are happening because of it, nearly 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:14.400 one hundred in the United States by this point. Still, 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.440 it takes the State of Illinois a whole three years 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.800 to think on it, until eventually, in two thousand and 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:24.960 four they agree to a retest, except the sample is 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:29.920 well missing, but the state has an excuse at the ready. 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.080 It's not quite the Doggate my homework, but near enough. 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:40.760 Records show the sweater is with Andrea Lyon. Now, just 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.720 to be clear, it is highly implausible that cuttings of 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:48.280 any kind would go to a defense attorney. But you know, 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:51.520 for the sake of argument, I checked with Andrea that 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:52.400 are some nonsense. 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.640 They did not no, it was missing because they whatever 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:57.200 they did with it, they put it in a file 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:00.000 or and garbage can or whatever whatever happen. 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:06.280 The fact remained the sample was missing, and so the 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:09.560 state goes for option B, test the periphery of the 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:13.080 sample on the sweatshirt, which they do have, and cross 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:17.239 match it with DNA samples from Dana Fightler's parents. The result, 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:22.440 the blood spatters are not Dana Fightler's. In other words, 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:26.360 no helpful, Lee Harris, the one and only piece of 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:31.240 physical evidence is another dead end? Or is it. 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:41.280 Now? 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:46.600 Jennifer Blag doesn't hire often, but when she does she picks, well. 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:49.320 We can probably turn it off. I wouldn't barlet me. 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:51.920 Does this turn it off? Jay or Jennifer? I come 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:52.719 to my wife's name. 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.680 Meet Eric Bisbee, Jennifer Blag's one and only full time 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:57.360 staff member. 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.240 I mean, Jennifer and Jennifer and I have more like 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:03.920 a more of a mother and son relationship because I mean, 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:06.920 I've known her for so long and she's you know, 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:09.520 you shouldn't eat that. When I smoke, you should quit smoking. 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.800 She was on me forever about quitting smoking. And we 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:16.680 just get along really naturally. Our skill sets work together. 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:17.000 Well. 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:21.200 I'm more like science technical minded and she's better the 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:23.760 talking and the writing and all the stuff that lawyers 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:24.520 should be good at. 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:27.880 For the record, Eric is a very good lawyer. See 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.720 he says technical minded. What he means more specifically, is 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:36.080 DNA and understanding DNA evidence. It's pure math. His nerve 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.400 brain just gets pulled in by that kind of stuff 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.040 and the results can literally be life changing. 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:44.240 It's actually the golden standard. Really, if you look at 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.080 across the field of wrongful convictions, we had all these 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:51.199 DNA exonerations where you know, everyone had to acknowledge that's 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:53.960 not the right guy. We got the wrong guy. So really, 0:09:54.040 --> 0:10:01.040 DNA revolutionized how criminal justice is handled in almost every aspect. 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.240 I want to give a chilling but powerful example of 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.400 what Eric is talking about. In April nineteen eighty nine, 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:11.160 just two months before Dana Fightler was shot, another young 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:15.160 woman's brutal attack had rocked the nation. Twenty eight year 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:18.920 old Tricia Miley was out jogging in Central Park when 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:22.840 she was brutally attacked and raped. The location and the 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:27.680 level of brutality was shocking. Parents around the country, including 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:31.360 Dana Fhightlers, told their daughters not to go out alone 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.559 at night. A forty two year old businessman by the 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:38.240 name of Donald Trump was so incensed he spent eighty 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:42.240 five thousand dollars on four full page ads in New 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:46.920 York's top four newspapers calling for the execution of the 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:50.400 black and Latino boys arrested for the attack, a group 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:55.079 dubbed the Central Park Five. I was roughly the same 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.200 age as the boys, and remember being frightened by the 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:01.079 dark reality that they were going to spend the rest 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:04.720 of their lives in a cell. But then time passed, 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.760 we all forgot about them. Little did anyone know that 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.640 thirteen years later, in two thousand and two, a DNA 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:17.920 test would confirm their innocence. The real perpetrator was Matthias rayis, 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:22.640 a serial rapist already behind bars. The convictions for the 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:26.720 five boys, now like me, young men, were dismissed in 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:33.199 an instant. Fast forward to twenty and sixteen, when Jennifer 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.679 drops the Lee Harris files on Eric's desk. The first 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:40.079 thing he's drawn to is that sweatshirt DNA result. This 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:43.680 is not Dana Pheitler's blood. See, he is not sure 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:44.679 he agrees with it. 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:46.640 And so when I got on the case, I started 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:50.559 looking at it. I thought it seems entirely possible that 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:52.080 that actually is her blood. 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:56.960 DNA evidence is great when it has been well preserved. 0:11:57.040 --> 0:11:59.640 Because what we're dealing with here is a sweatshirt potentially 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:03.000 has the victims of blood on it, and it's been 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.839 sitting for a long time. So the longer it sits, 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:08.360 it's the possibility that it degrades. You can't get a 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:13.880 good sample. And so in this case the DNA match, 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:17.239 should I believe all but two locations. 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:22.000 In other words, according to Eric's analytical brain, there was 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:25.080 still a chance that the blood on the sweatshirt did 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.880 belong to Dana Peitler. All they had to do was 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:31.560 find those original samples. They had gone to huge links 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.120 in the early two thousands to no avail. But this 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:36.920 task had Jennifer Blagg written all over it. 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:39.240 So if you look at a diagram the sweatshirt, it 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.720 had little holes all over it from where the technician 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.720 cut out the cuttings. So then I had to go 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.120 down this rabbit hole of trying to figure out where 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:48.000 the cuttings could be. 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.440 Back in the early two thousands, the folks handling forensic 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:57.760 testing for the CPD were the CPD. More precisely, the 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:01.320 Chicago Crime Lab. Now, think about that for a second. 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.920 The same department that made the arrest was also running 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:08.360 the science meant to prove the arrest correct. Conflict of interest. 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:13.360 Of course, cpd entered the lab already knowing the story 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.000 it wanted the evidence to tell. And we all know 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:18.440 how the bias, conscious or not, has a way of 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:23.000 seeping into the work. That's changed now today third party 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.960 labs are used, But there was one thing that you 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.880 could count on with police labs back in the day. Paperwork, 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:33.600 a meticulous record for every scrap of evidence, what they 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:35.520 call the chain of custody. 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.480 So the Chicago Police have an evidence technician that calms 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.400 takes the evidence, takes pictures of the evidence, and then 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.640 inventories at signs an inventory slip at the Chicago Police 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.960 Department where it's inventoried. Then when it's checked out to 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:54.800 do anything. Everywhere that evidence goes, there's paper documenting where it. 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:58.480 Went, except when they forget their reports. Deep down, one 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.520 of her rabbit holes were discovered that from time to 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:05.040 time the crime lab omitted their paperwork on previous cases. 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:09.319 So maybe even if there was no paperwork, there was 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:12.800 a chance the evidence was still hiding somewhere. It was 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:14.600 a long shot, but worth it. 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.520 I knew that if we could have DNA evidence that 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.360 had fighters the victim's blood on his shirt, that would 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:23.920 that would be it in the story. 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.240 An instant exoneration for Lee, not only because it would 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:30.320 implicate someone else, but also because well, it would also 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:32.120 discredit his twenty two statements. 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:36.720 Lee's statements never mentioned this alternate suspect he mentioned to 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:38.760 other people that he was with, so it would show 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:42.120 conclusively that his statements were false. So if I could 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:46.120 prove that the alternate suspect had her blood on his shirt, 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:48.960 there was other evidence to point to him, and it 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.320 would refute Lee's statement, and it would be enough. 0:14:51.200 --> 0:15:04.120 To get Lee out. After all the events of the 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:07.720 past weeks, the sweet high of the Tolls recantation followed 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.360 by this devastating crash when he learned it didn't change 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:14.600 Lee's fate, Robert knows he needs to temper his friend's spirits, 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:19.800 keep him believing in something anything, and Robert being well Robert, 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:24.240 he already has a plan, a documentary, one all about 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:28.800 Lee's story, the perfect addition to the Freely Media franchise, 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:32.520 something to put on YouTube hook in more supporters and 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:37.360 most important, more journalists hunting for their latest scoop shrewe 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.880 to form. Robert has been gathering lots of material and 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:42.520 now he needs some input from the star. 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:43.880 Awesome. 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:49.080 Let me take this phone call here an inmate, laun 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:52.480 thank you for using the curis. You may start the 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.880 conversation now, Ale, Hi, how are you? 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.760 This can only mean one thing from now on, every 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:01.800 phone phone call is potential content. 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:04.480 They speak clearly and into the phone. 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:05.640 Can you hear me? Now? 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:07.400 Yeah, I can hear you. Just just make sure you 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.320 speak clearly and into the phone. I've got a cool project. 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:13.640 Lee doesn't take the baby. He has other things on 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:14.160 his mind. 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:20.080 Oh man, hell of it get started at about this morning. No, 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.920 we had a storm up to it and go all 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:28.360 to shad off the roof right above where I'm sleeping. 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:31.280 A freak storm is flooded Lee's side of the prison. 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:33.760 He's had to be moved. 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:37.120 So they just poved me a few minutes ago. So 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:41.840 another plot of this part of the institution I didn't 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:46.040 even know exists. And it's crazy as hell. That's like 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:48.360 being in the nut all these things. 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:54.200 Credication, Well, that's all right. Well, Hopefully they're calm, I said, 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:55.400 hopefully they're calm. 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:58.720 Well, I mean, I don't know. They walking around like 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:02.440 Sandie's that they looking at be real brains. There you go. 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:08.119 Hey, Rob is ever patient, but the clock is ticking. 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:10.360 It's time to get down to business. 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:14.160 So with that being said, you know, I'm gonna ask 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:18.919 a couple of questions and and just and we'll go 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:25.480 from there. So regarding the Dana Feiler murder, how did 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:26.720 you get involved? 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:32.320 Well, what happened? Well, a murder happened. This is work 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.920 with down. We think we know who did it. Well, 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:40.240 we need your help, help with OLCO. And we went 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:42.440 from there. It was down all the week. 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:46.080 And what was the incentive on your part to help 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:46.840 these police? 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:53.639 Well, number one, they with my friend. And number two, 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:57.960 here's the thing about interviewing people, something we all learned 0:17:58.000 --> 0:17:58.600 the hard way. 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.800 They don't always give you the right answers. 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:04.760 Was it twenty thousand or was it twenty five thousand? 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:08.440 It was it was twenty thouves. 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:12.640 A sensitive interviewer can attempt to gently nudge their subject. 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.760 Well, I don't I don't know, I don't know. 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:19.440 So twenty thousand was promised or was it twenty five thousand. 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:21.880 But you can only take the horse to the water. 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:25.679 It was twenty thouves. May probably twenty thouves. 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:32.359 Okay, So reporter Rob changes tech to a subject that 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:34.040 he knows Lee will deliver on. 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:36.160 But what I would like you to do is I'd 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:40.560 like to get you recorded. You know, uh, maybe you 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:43.040 say hi. My name is Lee Harris. I was born 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:47.800 in whatever whatever, I grew up in Gabrini Green, and 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.119 just talk about it, talk about the main streets of 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:51.720 Kabriny Green and what it was like. 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:54.200 And that's going to be the intro to the movie. 0:18:55.560 --> 0:19:00.800 Okay, okay, okay, I can do it, all right, So 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:01.800 when did you want to do that? 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:03.119 Right now? 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:06.199 You know? 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:13.320 I uh? I a hoven Cabrini in the early sixties, 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:19.880 all right, went to the world famouite cool, vacational as fool. 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:25.880 Home life, meanwhile, was what he referred to as controlled chaos. 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.520 Lee shared a four bedroom apartment with his mother, who 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:33.680 cleaned holmes part time, and his five brothers. His father, 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:36.679 a mechanic who drank too much, was only ever a 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:41.159 fleeting presence. Money was very tight. Little Lee sought solace 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.479 singing in church Choir and later on with the ladies. 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.680 I think Cabrini was a course of challenge because we 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:54.119 had h that I want to feel. We had the 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:58.160 poor folk at three four blocks the Wayne, we had 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.480 the rich halfman. They didn't want the guy took the 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:05.680 projects released vitory in that area I left they were 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:06.159 working for. 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:09.919 Remember, Kabrini was just a short walk away from the 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.960 Gold Coast, one of America's wealthiest neighborhoods back then, which 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:16.399 made it a good place to earn some money. So 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:20.560 every day Lee would cross the poetically named Division Street 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:22.439 to reach his wealthy clients. 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:27.560 Both of our work, game of the other flat absolutely. 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:30.800 Put on the other side of the tracks was a 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:33.800 world away. 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:41.240 Life, and to breed was raw. The great projects, it's 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:44.359 the white projects, but the white purojects didn't like the 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:48.199 rig projects with the rig projects, didn't like the Royals, 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:50.439 the lawyalnits. It was. 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:52.960 It was a fac The reds and whites were the 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:56.320 high rise towers, twenty three of them in total, some 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:59.199 up to nineteen stories tall. And then there were the 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:03.000 row houses nearly six hundred. Whichever one you happened to 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:05.360 live in became your default tribal identity. 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:10.160 The bringing was a war though, and the only thing 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:16.560 that really I bet that kept the just sound or softball. 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:22.960 Yes, softball invented in Chicago in the late nineteenth century 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:26.480 by George Hancock. Baseball with a larger ball and a 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:30.400 smaller field the ideal inner city leisure sport. 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:35.560 And we had a thing that we referred to as 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:43.000 postal organization through recreation, and we developed football league. And 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:46.760 what we got was we made post of the gas. 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:51.240 The fel war would felt the play together. That way 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:54.359 they if you get killed, if you don't want to 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:56.359 kill your game, baby, if you better to. 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:59.640 Win a game, put competing gang members on the same 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:03.399 soft bull side. It was as ingenious as it was audacious. 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:05.879 You know. We we were able to have probably was 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:07.840 able to keep a lot of fitness down. 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:11.040 While they didn't on the field once the game was 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:11.680 over and. 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:14.960 Then it was business and years all over that that 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:19.240 was great. That was great, But a capital person that 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:22.840 rolled up and down the business street, they would have 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:28.159 no idea what was going on behind the wallmost fire. 0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:33.840 Alongside the softball league and coaching the girls softball teams, 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:38.200 Lee would busy himself every year with another very Cabrini 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:38.920 sporting event. 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:43.520 We started what we call the sabretty Green Black collect Well, 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:49.200 we had regular Olympic events and we actually had athlete 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:53.440 uh for once a year. That's like they was going 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:55.080 to the Olympics. So that was what. That was a 0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:59.760 big That was a big game. So you know, lifeless, lifeless, Uh, 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:02.320 what's pretty good. 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:07.640 This is the thing outsiders never understood about Cabrini. They 0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:10.439 saw the news, the crime stats and assumed it was 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:13.240 a twenty four to seven horror show. For some people, 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:16.400 the film Candy Man, a literal horror show, was their 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:19.440 only vision of the place. And yes, it could be 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:23.320 a war zone, but even in war, everyday life carried on, 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:28.399 and within its harsh conditions, consciousness and creativity thrived. The 0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:31.720 musicians Curtis Mayfield and Jerry Butler were raised there in 0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:34.639 the nineteen fifties and pointed to their upbringings as a 0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:38.320 source of their sound and social commentary. It was also 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:42.120 fertile ground for activists by Marion Stamps, who was instrumental 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:45.520 in the election of Harold Washington, the city's first black mayor, 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:47.680 as well as other future politicians. 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:53.960 Jesse White was there, oh Gosh Favis to Saya. The 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:57.560 former president of the county Ford George Dutt was fair. 0:23:59.000 --> 0:24:04.840 Mike Biegel, he was there and they all knew out 0:24:04.920 --> 0:24:10.960 Fito that garyon and I was in the. 0:24:10.960 --> 0:24:16.399 Mix for Chicagoans. Jesse White is a living legend, an 0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:20.120 Army paratrooper and minor league baseball player. As a youth 0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:23.920 worker inside Cabrini, he founded the Jesse White Tumbling Team, 0:24:24.359 --> 0:24:30.280 a national phenomenon tumblers performing at presidential inaugurations, stealing scenes 0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:35.000