WEBVTT - Jacob Collier 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.200 Welcome, welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left That Podcast. 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:16.840 My guest today is Jacob Collume. Yes, the man who 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:21.119 was nominated for Album of the Year. Jesse Volume three 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:23.919 is the name of the record. Jacob. Good to have 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:26.960 you here, Bob. It's such a pleasure to see you, sir. Okay, 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:30.520 now we must say, most people or many people are 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:35.159 unfamiliar with your music, so I must ask, can you 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:37.480 please describe it? I know me your music is didn't 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:39.640 describe it for but can you please describe it for 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:42.440 the audience? Well, I will try my best. Um. I 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.000 suppose I think of my music as joyous music in 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:47.040 a sense. It's a mixture of all sorts of different 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:51.960 musical styles, musical spaces. I've loved music as a whole language, 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:54.200 and so there's orchestral less in it, and there's rock 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:56.200 and roll, and there's some jazz in terms of the 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.280 harmonic language, and there's some electronic production too, and there's 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:01.480 lots of acappelle. So I tend to think and work 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:03.600 in layers a lot of the time, and so I 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:05.360 tend to play a lot of instruments myself on on 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:08.720 my albums and also my life performances. I'm I'm talking 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:10.919 to you now from a room filled with many different 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:12.920 things that make different kinds of sound, and I've loved 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:14.600 the process of learing those on top of each other, 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:16.960 for I guess the duration of my life, and so 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.440 I guess my music is an expression of all the 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:21.559 things I love, and that's a whole mixture different things. 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:26.160 But it's a sort of tentabulum of of eclectic ingredients. 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:31.760 I suppose that is a mortgage board of descriptions. What 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:35.040 track should someone start with if they want to know 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:39.000 Jacob car your Oh, that's a different question. Um, I 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:41.280 would say start with All I Need. And All I 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:43.160 Need is a song on Jesse Volian three, the album 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:44.720 that you mentioned, which is the third part of a 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:47.840 four part album series that I've been creating from this chair. 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.760 And All I Need is is. Yeah, it's a it's 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:54.160 um a testament to a few things I love. I 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:56.480 guess there's there's some harmony in there, and there's some 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:59.160 there's some dance nus in there, and it's a collaboration 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:01.160 with with Mehalia and ty Dolla Sign and I love 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:03.920 both those musicians so much. Okay, let's go back to 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:09.160 the beginning. So you were born in you were raised 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:13.440 essentially by your mother? True? Absolutely, true? Is your father 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:15.760 in the picture at all? My father has not been 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:17.920 in the picture for about fifteen years or so. So 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.000 I was very much brought up by by women. I suppose. 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:23.040 I've got two little sisters who brought me up to 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:25.400 So it was me and my sisters and and my 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:28.080 mom in this exact house actually here in in in 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:32.359 North London. Okay. But your mother was in the music field. 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:35.200 What the did and does she do? She is a 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:37.720 violinist in the in the classical world and outside. And 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:40.360 also she's a conductor as so some of my earliest 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.480 memories of music making a music consumption, we're sitting in 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:45.600 a big hall called called the Duke's Hall in the 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.040 Royal Academy Music in London and watching her conductor room. 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.840 And so a lot of my kind of education started there. Okay, 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:56.800 your two sisters are younger than you are, yes, sir, absolutely, okay. 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.560 Their ages are let's see, I'm twenty x and then 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:03.160 twenty four and twenty okay. And are they in the 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:06.640 music field. They both play and they both sing, but 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:09.839 they're not professionally musicians. They do other things. But when 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.360 whenever we're home together as a four, we make a rule, 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.520 and the rule is we always sing in four part harmony. 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:18.040 We sing a part korral, or we'll sing a barbershop 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:19.919 quartet or something like that, just because it's a nice 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:24.480 way to to spend time. That's very interesting. Okay, So 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.920 from the moment you have memories, was their music in 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:32.880 your household totally? Absolutely every corner of every room, either 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:36.160 something was playing or something was being spoken about that 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:40.640 was playing. And so I remember Stevie, I remember Sting, 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:45.280 I remember Bobby McFerrin, remember birth when and fire Um, 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.160 and then I remember discovering Flying Lotus. That was a 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:50.000 big moment for me when I was about thirteen years 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.760 old or so. And then that unlocked j Diller, and 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:56.080 that unlocked d' angelo and then the whole the whole 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:57.480 thing kind of opened up. But I was also very 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:01.120 much brought up on Martok and Stravinsky, and I sang 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:03.760 in some operas composed by Benjamin Britten as a boy. 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:05.840 I say, an opera called The Turn of the Screw. 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:08.840 There's a boy in that. In that Chimbrop recored Miles 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.400 and so my musical education was this massive mixture of 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:15.040 on the one hand, like dancing to a to a 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:17.279 group like a Prince group, for example, and on the 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.000 other hand, standing on stage in Auviedo, Spain and singing 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:23.120 the harmony of Benjamin Britain, which is completely an early 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.599 you know, twelve turns structures and dissonant things and a 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.360 really sensitive emotional language that he had going on, and 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:32.520 a real Britishness too, And I saw no reason to 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:34.080 kind of reject any of it. It was all part 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:37.160 of my part, part of my language. I suppose, you know, 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:41.720 casual observation would say that most people in the classical 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:46.880 musical field sneering pop music. So your mother was interested 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.800 in playing pop music in the house, I guess you 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:51.599 could say, so, yeah. And I wouldn't say that she 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:53.440 would have thought of it as pop music. I don't 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:55.520 think she would have said, well, you know, his classic 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:57.640 of music, and then and then this is pop, and 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.240 then over here this jazz and this is folk, I 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.400 think in her eyes, and therefore in my eyes it 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.320 was more this is music I love. And there's actually 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:07.520 a lot that class music has in common with with 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:09.720 you know, you could say pop music when you when 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:11.800 you stop and think about it. But I think I 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.000 really welcomed that approach, and I'm very grateful for it 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.200 because I think it it stopped me as a creative 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:19.240 person thinking too much about sort of boxes and boundaries 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:21.120 and this is appropriate for this, and this is appropriate 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:23.359 for this and more a sense that there was this 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:27.760 massive language that people were learning and discovering within each other, 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:29.800 within the kind of musicians community of the world. And 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.880 a lot of my favorite things that I heard, especially 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:34.719 when I was young, were people who were sort of 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:36.600 taking risks of it and and trying things out and 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:40.240 twisting rules that that maybe had existed. Can you give 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.800 us a couple of examples of that, I can, so 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:47.640 excuse me. One one construct that I've been made aware 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:50.679 of recently is that you have twelve twelve half steps 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:52.800 in an octave, or in UK was a twelve semi 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.599 tones and an octave um. And I've heard a couple 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:57.640 of pieces of music that really blew my mind with 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.440 people who were thinking outside of that um in the 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:04.080 sense that you know from from bar to bar. Traditionally 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:06.680 you would divide that into the twelve semi tones that 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:09.280 we see on the piano um. But I became very 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:13.480 interested in just intonation systems, by which I mean, um, 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:15.760 tuning to to physics, but essentially the laws of physics, 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:18.920 rather than tuning too and to the more traditional idea 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.360 of harmony. And so you know, I heard composers like, 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:25.320 for example, Leghetti exploring this, and I heard that, and 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:29.000 I thought, that's that's interesting to me because I think 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:31.400 it could apply to things beyond what it what it 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.160 currently represents. I think that that is tool that could 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:36.839 be used in all sorts of other situations. And so 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.599 I've I've sought out things that get my ears excited 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:42.600 or tie my brain and or not, and I've I've 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:46.240 been interested. I supposed to find ways of building bridges 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:48.240 between these different musical worlds and find a way to 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:49.760 get all these ingredients to kind of make some kind 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:53.640 of sense. Okay though, but wouldn't we also say that 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:58.880 the average listener has problems with scales and other types 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:03.800 of music outside that traditional twelve towns. Um. I think 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:07.760 you're right. I think I'd say that people who um, 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:09.880 people who listen to a lot of a particular kind 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.960 of music get used to it. And so that, to 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.200 me is is interesting. And so, for example, if you 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.520 if you listen to the radio, then you hear a 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.040 lot of a particular kind of thing, And to be honest, 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:21.800 I'm always so interested to do that. I turned on 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:23.640 the radis and I think, Oh, what's the thing that's 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:26.880 kind of filling people's imaginations at this time, and what 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.240 is people's idea of acceptable? And for example, if you 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:34.520 grow up in say Africa, and your music is entirely 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:37.720 based in pentatonic structures, which is sort of far simpler 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:41.480 than then I guess what what Europeans have have creative, 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:43.480 which is is almost like a sort of a chromatic 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.440 system of harmony within classical music. Then all of that 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.600 chromatic stuff sounds totally bizarre, and at first people were like, oh, 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:51.800 that's strange. I'm not sure I understand that. And then gradually, 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.280 as those kinds of rules seep into what feels normal 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:57.520 to people, then people kind of embrace those elements, I think, 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:00.320 And so you know, I would definitely say that there 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.000 are things that I hear that take my breath away 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.280 and that surprised me, that are pretty abnormal and pretty weird, 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.120 and those things always kind of intrigue me to to 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:10.280 dig a bit deeper, because I feel like, in some 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:12.840 ways the thing that needs to bend in that experience 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:14.800 is not necessarily the thing I'm listening to you, but 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:16.520 it's more me as a listener. How can I bend 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.080 myself into a shape that where that makes some kind 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:23.040 of sense. Okay, so you're listening to music in the house. 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:28.280 At what point do you pick up an instrument? Oh? Um? 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:30.000 I suppose I was about two or three when I 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:32.559 was handed a violin and that made sense to my 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:34.840 mom as a violinist. It was like, we'll try this 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:36.920 one out for size. And I remember I played for 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:38.160 a couple of years and I gave up when I 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.079 was four because I was quite an impatient musician, I think, 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:43.240 and I wanted to be able to hit something and 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:44.880 for it to make a sound that was satisfying. And 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:46.480 the thing what the violin is that you kind of 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:48.600 need to play for five years until it doesn't sound 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:52.840 like that. And so I gravitated more towards the piano 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:54.520 because it was kind of like a layout that I 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:56.640 could digs like. Okay, so they kind of makes some 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.199 kind of sense. And I can clearly remember being asked 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.640 as clearly of musically interested eight year old you know, 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.200 would piano lessons be something that you'd like, And I 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:08.840 can clearly remember saying, no, I don't want that. I 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:11.080 want to kind of do this in my own way. 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.720 And luckily for me, my mom's philosophy has always been 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:16.960 too kind of allow that space to happen, and so 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:20.240 I was kind of allowed to be just a free 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:23.240 a free spirit in this space, in this music room 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:25.760 and just sort of go wherever my fancy took me 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:28.120 from from from one day to the next. Was your 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.880 mother disappointed that you gave up the violin, not in 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:33.320 the slightest, No, I think I think she was excited 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:35.360 that it was a part of my journey in some way. 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.200 You know, it was like, well, okay, cool, so the 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:39.160 violin was that, and now let's go onto something else 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:41.360 and whatever. But my mom is very specially in the 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:44.680 sense that she's never sort of imposed a sense of 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:46.600 this is how I'd like you to be, or unless 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:48.080 you're the way that I want you to be, then 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:49.959 you're going to let me down. You know. It's always 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.800 been like your job as a human is to find 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:55.520 out what you are, and here are some materials that 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.319 may help you figure that out. But but other than 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:00.280 that it's it's kind of up to you, and I'm 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:03.320 always sort of speaking as her now. I'm always open 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:07.160 to any kind of dialogue and I'll always be be interested, 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.480 I guess. Okay, So you start playing at the piano 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:15.560 for years old, totally self taught. Yes, yeah, I was 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:19.760 just exploring on my own, okay, And certainly it's not 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:22.720 like being bad. I'm a violin, but there's a certain 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:27.960 skill to making listenable music on the keys. How did 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:31.719 you figure it out? Um, it's a good question. I'm 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:34.960 still figuring out. I think I started with things that 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:37.720 I knew, um, and I went from there. You know, 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:39.040 I think there's there was a bit of a myth 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.920 that I saw in in the musical education world that 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:43.760 what I experienced of it, you know, at school and 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.400 things like that, where it was kind of like, you know, 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:48.920 you're you're a beginner, and there's this huge, great, big 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:50.600 mountain need to climb. At the top of the mountain, 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:53.040 you know you will be good enough, but you have 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:55.439 to start in this uncomfortable place and sort of work 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.680 and work at the the uncomfortable place until you feel comfortable, 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:00.880 which for me is I can see how it happened, 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.480 but it's a little inefficient. You know. There are sounds 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:05.640 that I kind of understood as a as a musician, 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:09.400 as a boy um that I would work out on 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:10.840 the piano. You know, I'd hear I'd hear a song. 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:12.400 I'd say, I'd hear a Stevie song, and I think, so, 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.400 what's going on there? It sounds like there's there's this chord. 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:17.679 And then I would just take that chord and I said, 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.079 what does this chord do? And I didn't really understand it, 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:21.600 but I followed my ears. It would be like, well, 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:23.000 what's this card like if I try and move it 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:26.960 up one semiter or down, or if I if this 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:29.320 chord leads to this chord, and and then what does 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:31.800 what is adding this particularly what make that chord want 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:33.400 to do? You know? And this this was a kind 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.360 of intuitive process that I went through that that was 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:38.839 very little about what was right and wrong, you know. 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:40.440 It was very little about like, well, these this is 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:42.959 how it's done, and it was more what what is 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:47.400 exciting to do? And so, yeah, I I iterated that process. 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:49.680 I suppose, yeah, I iterated that process at the piano 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:53.240 um and I can clearly remember being very thrilled, indeed 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:56.520 on my fourteenth birthday to get this double bass. And 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:58.400 it was a funny thing because I had not a 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:00.000 clue how to play it, but I could. I could 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:01.959 play the bass in my head. I could go good, 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:04.960 you know, because I knew basselines and I could sing them, 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:06.760 but I couldn't play them. And so I think for me, 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.240 I kind of assumed that there there must be a 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:11.840 way to extract the basselines from the base, and I 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.680 just sort of died. I don't dove into it with 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:16.640 a sense of trust. It was like, well, there must 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.120 be where I can get this to feel natural, and 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:22.000 and I guess it's it's a matter of patients. And 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:23.280 and also I think it was a matter of me 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:27.680 setting myself challenges, sometimes outrageous creative challenges, like you know, 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.080 you will find a way to figure this outward, let's 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.160 try and incorporate this element in this And by solving 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:35.679 those problems, I kind of discovered this sense of synergy 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.360 between all the different instruments that I was falling in 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:40.880 love with, to the voice, to the drums. And I 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.800 never thought of myself as a as an instrumentalist per se. 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:45.839 I didn't think, well, I'm a I'm a piano player, 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.640 or I'm a bass player, whatever. But I always felt, 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.760 I guess I thought of myself as exploring music at 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:53.840 large and being a musician as much as I could, 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.400 and trying to establish what what the intention might be 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.000 with a particular sound and how the how how that 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.320 could fit into this the sensibility that I had, you know, 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:04.160 being all the members of my own band, how how 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:05.640 would it feel to be the base, How it feels 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:07.520 to be the drum? How do they interact with each other? 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:10.240 And you know, most of my learning happened by listening. 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:12.560 You know, I sat and listened to everything I could 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:14.560 possibly find, you know, And at that point, the Internet 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.800 was quite young and YouTube was being born and growing, 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:19.920 but it was kind of at the right moment where 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:22.560 if I was interested in, you know, who played base 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.320 on a Keith Jarrett record, then I could find out 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.599 and then I could figure out what that person's story was, 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.240 and I could listen to on other records, and and 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:32.160 and so a lot of that kind of process of 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:35.320 filling up my periphery with things that I trusted just 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:38.280 happened through consuming as much music, you know, as much 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.480 music as I could from home, things that were in 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:42.320 the house, two things that were online, and to things 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.280 recommended by friends and all that stuff. Okay, do you 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:50.920 read music relatively poorly? But I do read it like 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.640 I can sing. If you have me a part to sing, 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:57.120 I can sing it. But honestly, I find myself a 0:13:57.120 --> 0:13:59.000 little at a loss if you if you put, say, 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.040 for example, a human piano sonata in front of me, 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:04.320 I would have a very hard time playing I could honestly, 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.520 I could probably hear it in my head more easily 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:09.040 than I could play it with my hands, because I haven't. 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.440 I never really opened up those channels of reading and 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:13.160 playing because it just kind of wasn't the way that 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:17.120 I learned. So, but how did you learn to the 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:20.120 rudimentary level you have the skill? I think it was 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:22.360 it was a mixture of things. But my mom would 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.160 would sit down and show me things, and it'd be like, 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.360 this is how you write this, or you know, with 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:28.560 a with a school assignment. And I remember being asked 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.360 to harmonize a bark corral part when I was in school. 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:33.480 This is like one of the activities that you do 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:35.560 as a music student. And I was so I was 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.680 so kind of I mean, I was interested to a point, 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:40.400 but also I was quite impatient, and it was like yeah, 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:42.200 bark alright, cool, yeah, but can we like can we 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:43.760 just do something that makes us dance? Like can we 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:45.560 can we have drums to this? Or like can we 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:46.960 have basis? That's why I would do this at my 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:48.760 own time, but at school they were these kind of 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:50.720 established rules. So I bring them home and I would 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:52.640 work it out, and you know, I learned. I learned 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:54.480 how to read music a little bit enough to say, Okay, 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.920 that's an airport, that's an a natural or whatever. But um, 0:14:58.000 --> 0:14:59.960 I think what I found exciting was sort of extrapped 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.160 sing parts of that that I did like, and then 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.560 just sort of assimilating them a bit like osmosis, and 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:06.680 then and then just playing with them, like messing around 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:08.480 and seeing how far I could stretch these things in 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.400 the creative space. Uh, and how much I could I 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:14.680 could learn from that? Okay, you talk about music school. 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.520 Traditionally one goes to school at age five or six. 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:21.000 Did you go to a regular school and then transfer 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:23.920 was a musical school From day one. I was in 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:26.920 a very regular schooling environment until I was I think 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.200 about sixteen years old. I went to like a box 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.280 standard primary school quite in my house. And I went 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.160 to a box standard secondary school filled with every different 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.160 kind of person you can imagine, which was actually, I 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.840 think brilliant. I really enjoyed it. A sense of normalcy, 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:42.680 I suppose. And then okay, but well, let's slow down 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:47.000 there for a second. Good student, bad student? In general, 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.080 I was a pretty good student, and I had the 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.120 kind of mind that if I was interested in something, 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:54.400 I would just go as deep as you could possibly 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:56.520 go in a flash. And I was fast and I 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:59.920 could pick things up quickly. Um. And if I wasn't interested, 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:01.800 and I just wouldn't engage very much, you know. So 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:04.360 I guess I had this sense of either falling in 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.320 love with the concept or kind of disregarding it a 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:10.560 little bit. But I was attentive, and I was interested 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:14.880 in education in general, and I liked to bend whatever 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:18.360 rules I could find, but never in a particularly disrespectful way. Okay, 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:20.560 and were you a popular kid, were you a loner? 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.200 What kind of kid were you? I suppose I was 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.280 somewhere between the two. I wouldn't I wouldn't say I 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.560 was embraced by the by the popular kids as such, 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:30.680 I'm sure I don't speak alone there. I think a 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:32.720 lot of people and musicians I've spoken to too, has 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:34.920 had trouble fitting in in that kind of a way. 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:36.560 And I think I had such a vivid in a 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.200 world and that was kind of like my priority in 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:40.800 some ways, and I would spend a lot of time 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:44.120 kind of designing things in my mind and building things 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.040 and thinking about language and words. I would make little 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:48.840 diagrams and I would draw a little pictures and things 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:50.680 like that. But I think in a certain kind of 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:52.720 way I was I was fairly content to not be 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.520 fully understood, and I kind of got got used to 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:57.840 the thing of, you know what, Jacobs off doing his 0:16:57.880 --> 0:16:59.320 own thing and he's in his own world. But but 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:01.640 that's okay. And I think at home, my environment was 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:04.239 very conducive with that, you know, and obviously that there 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.119 is always a bit of dissonance when you've been given 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.159 a lot of freedom in your own space and time 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.359 and then step into an institution where the expectations you 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.280 will absolutely conform. You know, you will do it the 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:15.520 way that we want you to do it, and if 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:17.760 you don't do it like that, then you know you're 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:19.359 you're not going to make the cart you know, you 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.200 won't get the grades. And and so there was this 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:24.240 this funny dance that I kind of began to do, 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.040 which honestly, I think that was quite good training for 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:29.280 for the music industry in a certain respect and building 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.119 a career, um because I think there's there's a certain 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.159 amount of of kind of listening that you need to 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:37.680 do when you're learning something, learning how something is done, 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.520 and and a certain amount of I suppose I could say, 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:42.800 conforming to what that means and what's right and wrong. 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:45.480 And then there's also a certain amount of of adventuring 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:49.480 and kind of willingness to to to be to be 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:53.280 wrong or willingness to be unaccepted, which is which is 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:57.040 thrilling as a child, and I think crucial as a musician. Um. 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:58.800 And so I think that I try to strike a 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:02.160 balance at school between the kind of yeah, I can 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:04.239 talk to the popular kids and also like, I'm very 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:06.840 comfortable to be on my own, and I think I was. 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:08.680 I would I would say I was. I was more 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:11.760 towards the kind of loaner side, if there's a spectrum 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:13.520 of that, I was. I was more the person who 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.119 was on his own or had a few key friends 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:17.639 of few key people. Um, and I think when I 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.040 left school, and I really when I left education in general, 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:23.399 that was the first time where I could really kind 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.679 of ride the right this this ship that I was building, 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:27.320 this cathedral or whatever you want to call it, that 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.320 I was making musically, and that kind of unlocked a 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:32.400 lot of my energy and a lot of my kind 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:34.879 of social confidence. I would say too, because it was 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.520 like I could speak my own language. I didn't have 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:39.600 to access people by trying to speak theres so much. 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.440 And so that the time I spent with my own 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.000 space and in my own time and started to tour, 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:49.040 started to travel meeting incredible inspiring people and started to 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.959 collaborate to like that whole process for me was almost 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.320 like my my mind was given permission to just kind 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:57.280 of be itself. And that was a major relief to me. Okay, 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:01.080 so when you're going to school before musicals school, the 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:05.240 music school, excuse me, before you come home from school 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:08.960 you immediately get into music or did you have a 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:14.200 life with sports and television and friends came over? Um, well, 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:16.160 I guess it was a mixture, Like like every child, 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:17.680 I had a few different things, you know, there was 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:19.439 a while where I loved playing video games, and there 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:21.159 was a while where I was super super into football 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:25.119 or as USA soccer um. And I guess my favorite 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:27.800 thing would be when interests converged, you know. So I 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:29.600 remember I started a band in school and it was 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:31.960 called the Improvisation Group, and you'd come in and you 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:34.439 would improvise, and it was really cool when it was 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:35.880 something I look forward to every weekend and I would 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:37.520 bring those guys over and we jam in this room 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:39.800 and we'd hang out and we'd you know, at that time, 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:42.480 I was experimenting with with recording, and when I was 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:45.720 seven years old, I got cubas and four years later 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:48.480 I was given logic for my eleventh birthday, and man, 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:52.600 that was exciting, and that really dominated my imagination and 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:55.680 a lot of my after school time between the ages 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.159 of about eleven to sixteen. I was obviously beyond that, 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:00.480 but you know, it was such a such a canvas, 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:03.359 such a wicked canvas. It was like, okay, so you know, 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:04.920 I go to school, That's fine, I'll do the stuff, 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:08.440 jump through the hoops in in whatever way it makes sense. Um. 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:09.919 But then I would listen to this music and I 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:11.960 would try and put the things together on my own 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:14.240 and and I guess I almost saw myself as as 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:16.520 much a producer as a musician. I didn't think about 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:17.960 the difference between tho two things at that point. I 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:19.600 didn't realize there really was one. It was like, well, 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:22.640 I'm musick ing, you know, I'm creating music, and I'm 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:24.840 doing it in the way that makes sense with the 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:26.560 materials I had around me. And I didn't have a 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.320 great deal honestly. I had a one SM fifty eight microphone, 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:31.399 and I had logic, and I have a little to 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:35.720 input audio interface and and a computer and that was 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:38.119 it basically until I was about nineteen, and so I 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:40.679 wanted to find a way to to bring things to 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:42.800 life that I was hearing in my mind. I wanted 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:45.880 to play, and so what that kind of home studio 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:50.080 canvas gave me was an opportunity to do just that. Okay, 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:54.600 the improv group was in primary school, high school or 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:57.480 was that once you were in music school? That that 0:20:57.640 --> 0:20:59.840 is I suppose you would say middle school, but we 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:04.760 would say like ninth grades of year nine, year ten s. Okay, 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:07.199 but you do have this public life where you're in 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:09.120 the opera and there are a couple of other things. 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:11.399 How does that happen? And what is that like? It 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.639 was really interesting, honestly, because I would go to these 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.280 auditions for things. And I guess it all started because 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:18.960 I sang in a in a local choir when I 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.440 was about eight years old. I sang um in a choir, 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:23.560 which I loved. I just loved the feeling. It was like, man, 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:27.120 this feels at home, surrounded by voices, you know, gorgeous 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:28.600 harmonies like this is great. It's like a bit of 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.440 a social it's it was cool. And so I think 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:34.080 that in those kinds of camps, especially at that age, 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:36.080 there there are people on the lookout for people who 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:38.879 maybe like have have a special something that would apply 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:41.919 to film and musicals and operas and things like that. 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:44.239 And so there are a few different things that I 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:47.359 was I was asked to do. And one thing I 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:48.920 did I played the roll of tiny team in a 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:52.720 in a musical film production of Christmas Carol with Kelsey Grammer. 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:54.400 And it was super fun and I lived in Budapest 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:57.080 for six months or so and it was great fun. 0:21:57.119 --> 0:21:58.720 I had had a crutch and I got to play 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:00.480 the part. And I missed about a year of school 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:03.200 and had a two term and that that was interesting. 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:05.640 And what was What was I guess interesting looking back 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:08.639 now is that it's sort of normalized the idea to 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:11.919 me that I had this other world that was almost 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:14.560 like my world that was different from the world that 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:16.119 I was in when I was at school, and I 0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:18.720 was interesting with the others, and and that kind of duality. 0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:20.520 I mean, now now I think about it, that duality, 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:22.800 I guess became quite important to me. But I never 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:24.960 really felt like I really fitted into that world either, 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:27.240 to be completely honest with you, like I I wasn't 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:29.720 a theater kid, I wasn't a film kid. I found 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:31.760 a lot of the kind of mentalities of that very 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:33.639 very jarring. Indeed, you know, like, Wow, we're going to 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.040 make you a star, and oh, you're gonna be so famous, 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:38.040 and know it's lots of money and all, you know, 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:40.159 and that stuff just wasn't That wasn't it for me. 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:42.960 It wasn't exciting at all. I wanted to do stuff 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:46.360 that I that I was engaged by. You were basically 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:50.920 the first generation where these tools are natural. Okay, many 0:22:50.960 --> 0:22:53.800 people the music business they were doing analog recording. Maybe 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:58.040 they had a digital recorder, but moving to pro tools, 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:00.640 moving to logic was a big up and they took 0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:04.479 the mentality that they had from the analog imported it 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:08.600 to digital. Whereas this is natural, a great percentage of 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:10.840 this audience has never been in a recording studio, which 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:13.000 at this point, into a great degree is at home. 0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:16.360 Can you explain a little bit to them how logic 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:20.080 works and what that enabled you to do? Definitely, that's 0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:23.480 a great question. Um logic is a canvas for sounds, 0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:26.359 and it's a two D environment where you can place 0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:30.679 elements onto a canvas where one access is time and 0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:33.600 the other access is is your list of ingredients. And 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:36.520 so say, for example, I have a logic session with 0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:38.040 ten tracks in it. And when I say a track, 0:23:38.080 --> 0:23:40.520 it's like a vertical row of sound or something that 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:42.960 represents sounds. So I might have one track which is 0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:45.240 based guitar, and another track which is electric guitar, and 0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:48.199 another track which is um, you know, snare, and a 0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:50.880 track which is kicked, and maybe two tracks which are 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:53.359 my my left and right overhead mike friends for the drums, 0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:56.639 and then maybe I'll have say five or six tracks 0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:59.040 of vocals where ones a lead vocal track, and then 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:01.479 the others there are anyones are backing vocal tracks or 0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:03.080 other things, and I might have like a sort of 0:24:03.240 --> 0:24:06.679 SFX track, like a for you know, when all these 0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:08.600 kinds of sounds or whatever whatever, you know, kind of 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:11.439 comes into my head. And so I guess in that respect, 0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:13.480 it's quite similar to what you could say is like 0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:16.320 an analog approach to building things up, you know, step 0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:18.800 by step by step. But what logic does, which I 0:24:18.840 --> 0:24:20.440 guess that doesn't do, is, first of all, it works 0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:22.600 at great speed. Well, it works at add as fast. 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:24.240 It works as fast as as as you can go 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:26.040 as a person, pretty much always fast as your your 0:24:26.040 --> 0:24:29.800 CPU allowed. Um. And so you know, if I imagine, 0:24:29.800 --> 0:24:31.440 for example, right now, I think, oh, I can hear 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:33.199 in my mind, or if I'm working on a song, 0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:34.240 might I think, you know what I want to I 0:24:34.240 --> 0:24:37.240 want to hear like a gospel choir. It's like, okay, 0:24:37.320 --> 0:24:39.560 well then I'll make it sixty tracks and I'll seeing 0:24:39.600 --> 0:24:42.399 all the voices of the gospel choir. And at the 0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:44.840 first time I tried that, it sounded horrendous, and then 0:24:44.840 --> 0:24:46.159 I figured out, okay, so I need to turn the 0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:48.200 game down a bit because it's distorting, or need to 0:24:48.200 --> 0:24:50.000 put a compressor on it so that it doesn't feel 0:24:50.080 --> 0:24:53.119 over the top, and I can control it. And so 0:24:53.240 --> 0:24:55.240 with logic you can do things like put a number 0:24:55.280 --> 0:24:58.159 of tracks inside a group of tracks, and and so 0:24:58.200 --> 0:25:00.960 almost like make it into a folder like a a subgroup, 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:03.600 and then you can apply to that subgroup all sorts 0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:06.280 of audio effects. So, for example, you can edit the 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:08.320 EQ of the track. And when I say EQ, I 0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:10.840 sort of mean like a frequency graph where the high 0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:12.920 frequencies are on the right and the low frequencies are 0:25:12.920 --> 0:25:15.520 on the left. And so say I'm recording a vocal, 0:25:16.000 --> 0:25:18.760 but I wanted to sound really like sparkly, you know, 0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:20.680 like like an area on a grande lead, Then I 0:25:20.680 --> 0:25:22.399 would crank right up the high end of that vocal 0:25:22.440 --> 0:25:24.840 and it would sound really sparkly. Or if I wanted 0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:26.600 it to be like have how much of low and 0:25:26.600 --> 0:25:28.280 I would turn up the lowan And so you know, 0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:29.960 a lot of the time, when I was a teenager, 0:25:30.320 --> 0:25:31.639 I was touching this stuff. At the first time, I 0:25:31.680 --> 0:25:33.280 didn't have a clue what compressed was. It never clue 0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:36.359 what a limited was, or what knee or threshold or ratio. 0:25:36.400 --> 0:25:38.280 All this stuff but I was messing around with them 0:25:38.280 --> 0:25:41.239 and just kind of tangibly finding my way through. And 0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:43.400 you learn what what reverb does, and then you learn 0:25:43.440 --> 0:25:46.399 what delay does and the differentiation between those two, and 0:25:46.440 --> 0:25:48.680 then you learn about sending a track to a bus, 0:25:48.680 --> 0:25:50.720 and then the bus can, say, for example, be a 0:25:50.760 --> 0:25:53.399 set of plug ins. And and so I guess it 0:25:53.440 --> 0:25:56.160 almost encouraged me to think in a in a musical sense, 0:25:56.200 --> 0:25:58.480 it encouraged me to think in layers, encouraged me to 0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:01.840 to visualize my music in this kind of as a 0:26:02.160 --> 0:26:05.600 as these these vertical structures of sound with no limits. 0:26:06.119 --> 0:26:08.200 And then another amazing thing about logic is that it's 0:26:08.200 --> 0:26:10.040 got a bunch of stock sounds which are actually pretty 0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:12.000 pretty killing. You know. So if I if I want 0:26:12.040 --> 0:26:14.520 to hear like a timpany, if it's like did you 0:26:17.000 --> 0:26:18.919 and I think like, oh, timpany, probably cool. You know. 0:26:18.920 --> 0:26:21.359 I listened to pet sounds and I think, oh, slave bells, 0:26:21.680 --> 0:26:23.720 what what let's pull, you know, pull pull the material 0:26:23.760 --> 0:26:26.080 from my imagination. There will be a timpany. There will 0:26:26.119 --> 0:26:28.840 be a slave in logic. That might sound a little 0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:31.840 bit middy, but it would it will probably sound pretty realistic. 0:26:31.880 --> 0:26:33.240 And what it gave me as a teenager, and what 0:26:33.280 --> 0:26:36.640 it still gives me today is the opportunity to deeply 0:26:36.760 --> 0:26:41.159 explore what's possible, completely regardless of what's normal. And so 0:26:41.280 --> 0:26:44.399 I would be combining all sorts of unusual sounds, you know, 0:26:44.680 --> 0:26:46.800 like banjo, but I'll put boundo through a guitar amp 0:26:46.920 --> 0:26:49.639 or kick drum, but I had an infinite reverb to it, 0:26:49.720 --> 0:26:52.040 and then I side chain that to us you know, 0:26:52.040 --> 0:26:54.080 all these other things. And I didn't think it was 0:26:54.359 --> 0:26:56.520 particularly odd at the time. I thought, well, this is 0:26:56.520 --> 0:26:58.000 what I've got, and I'm going to start playing with it, 0:26:58.000 --> 0:26:59.240 in the same way that if you give a child 0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:01.840 lean or a piano, they go, okay, what does this 0:27:01.880 --> 0:27:04.080 thing do? Bing bing bing? Okay, I kind of understand 0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:06.679 the materials. I'm bored or I'm not bored, you know. 0:27:06.720 --> 0:27:09.080 And so what logic was was good for for me 0:27:09.240 --> 0:27:12.359 was thinking it was it was so infinite and so 0:27:12.480 --> 0:27:15.919 encouraging to me in the sense that pretty much, if 0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:19.679 I imagine something in my mind and whatever, you know, 0:27:19.960 --> 0:27:22.320 in whatever degree of resolution I was familiar with at 0:27:22.359 --> 0:27:25.680 that point, you know how how much resolution my understanding had, 0:27:25.760 --> 0:27:28.200 you know, how much depth it had or whatever, I 0:27:28.200 --> 0:27:30.080 could pretty much bring it to life. You know, I 0:27:30.119 --> 0:27:31.240 want to be in a big space, want to be 0:27:31.240 --> 0:27:33.800 in a small space. That's reither. I want to hit 0:27:33.880 --> 0:27:35.960 really hard on the on the stub, that's EQ. Or 0:27:36.000 --> 0:27:38.640 I want to sparkle, that's eq or you know, add 0:27:38.760 --> 0:27:41.080 a decoration or make it sound weird or distort it 0:27:41.160 --> 0:27:44.040 or whatever. And these words were kind of completely unfamiliar 0:27:44.080 --> 0:27:47.639 at first. But through playing, just playing with logic with 0:27:47.760 --> 0:27:51.879 no expectations, no guidance, no particular assignments, it was just 0:27:51.920 --> 0:27:55.600 a sense of learning how exciting it was to just 0:27:55.640 --> 0:27:58.359 to create, just for the sake of purely creation. One 0:27:58.359 --> 0:28:02.000 of the great things about these computer platforms is editing 0:28:02.119 --> 0:28:05.040 in loops are so much easier than on analog. You 0:28:05.080 --> 0:28:07.520 don't have to literally slice the tape and figure out 0:28:07.520 --> 0:28:09.720 where on the tape. To what degree did you take 0:28:09.760 --> 0:28:14.920 advantage of that process? Um a lot. I would say 0:28:15.320 --> 0:28:18.800 looping was a particular thing that existed that I saw online. 0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:20.520 People would do live looping gigs, you know, and it 0:28:20.600 --> 0:28:22.639 would be like, oh, you know, play four bars on 0:28:22.640 --> 0:28:24.160 the guitar and now I'm can add drums or whatever. 0:28:24.359 --> 0:28:26.960 That always that to me always felt slightly limited. But 0:28:26.960 --> 0:28:28.800 but I love to be able to copy and paste 0:28:28.880 --> 0:28:30.880 and cut. You know. It's like you think about Microsoft 0:28:30.920 --> 0:28:33.200 Word and you think, Okay, I'll sketch out an idea 0:28:33.240 --> 0:28:34.920 here for a paragraph and move on to the next paragraph, 0:28:34.920 --> 0:28:36.639 and then I'll realize that I need a bit of 0:28:36.640 --> 0:28:38.840 the first idea for the second and you go, you know, 0:28:38.880 --> 0:28:41.320 you you cut and paste, and oh it's just brilliant. 0:28:41.360 --> 0:28:45.040 I loved it. I loved the ease of it. Okay. Now, 0:28:45.360 --> 0:28:50.560 first the standard was pro Tools, then Apple purchase Logic. 0:28:51.040 --> 0:28:53.160 What is really the difference, and why would you prefer 0:28:53.240 --> 0:28:56.720 one or the other. That's a good question. Um, Well, 0:28:57.120 --> 0:29:00.640 pro Tools is slight. I would probably say pro Tools 0:29:00.880 --> 0:29:03.920 is slightly more powerful if you're editing purely audio, but 0:29:04.040 --> 0:29:06.840 Logic is powerful for most other things. So Logic is 0:29:06.920 --> 0:29:09.520 much more customizable. For example, So one thing I love 0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:11.440 about Logic is that you can change the keyboard shortcuts 0:29:11.520 --> 0:29:13.800 to do whatever you want. And so I, for example, 0:29:13.800 --> 0:29:15.360 have along the numbers all of the tools that I 0:29:15.440 --> 0:29:17.960 use most often, so cart and fade and splice and whatever, 0:29:18.560 --> 0:29:20.440 and I like I like being able to to to 0:29:20.520 --> 0:29:24.000 customize that. I think that's a fantastic feature. Um. Logic 0:29:24.040 --> 0:29:26.480 is also pretty good for MIDI. And when I say middy, 0:29:26.560 --> 0:29:28.160 I mean you know I mentioned the timpani and the 0:29:28.640 --> 0:29:30.800 and the sleigh bells and these instruments that aren't real 0:29:31.080 --> 0:29:32.880 I can play those things in into logic in a 0:29:32.880 --> 0:29:35.160 way that's I think far easier than my experience with 0:29:35.200 --> 0:29:36.960 pro tools has been. You can do it in pro Tools, 0:29:37.000 --> 0:29:40.480 but essentially they're they're pretty similar. You know, there are 0:29:40.480 --> 0:29:42.400 two different outlets of the same idea, which is, how 0:29:42.400 --> 0:29:44.880 do you give someone a set of tools to record 0:29:44.880 --> 0:29:53.840 and sculpt audio in a digital environment? So how do 0:29:53.920 --> 0:29:58.440 you end up going to music school? Huh? Um? I was. 0:29:59.160 --> 0:30:02.360 I was a little doubtful about going to musicool at all. 0:30:02.400 --> 0:30:03.480 I mean I was. I got to the age of 0:30:03.480 --> 0:30:05.000 fifteen and I did my g c s c s, 0:30:05.000 --> 0:30:08.400 which are the major high school exams in in in Britain, 0:30:09.320 --> 0:30:11.040 and I was a bit tall, and I didn't know 0:30:11.040 --> 0:30:13.440 whether to stay at that school or to move away, 0:30:13.440 --> 0:30:15.160 and part of me kind of felt, I think it's 0:30:15.160 --> 0:30:19.320 actually time to move away, um, And so there were 0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:21.200 a few different options and I went. I ended up 0:30:21.240 --> 0:30:23.320 going to the school called the Purcell School, which is 0:30:23.680 --> 0:30:27.840 a school basically for classical musicians. And I really had 0:30:27.920 --> 0:30:31.120 my hesitations because I wasn't classical musician. I wasn't really 0:30:31.160 --> 0:30:33.640 thinking I would particularly fit in, but there was a 0:30:33.680 --> 0:30:36.680 lot of appeal, particularly around like what was acceptable to 0:30:36.680 --> 0:30:39.000 spend time doing and you know when when you were 0:30:39.000 --> 0:30:41.080 sick for more. In Britain you have free periods and 0:30:41.080 --> 0:30:43.360 you have time off and whatever. And at the Perseel 0:30:43.360 --> 0:30:45.560 School there were rooms filled with computers with logic on them, 0:30:45.560 --> 0:30:47.760 can you imagine? So I could go right straight from 0:30:47.800 --> 0:30:49.840 you know, straight from my English literature class, straight onto 0:30:49.880 --> 0:30:52.240 logic and skept something out. And the other thing that 0:30:52.280 --> 0:30:53.920 was cool by that school, whether there were a few things, 0:30:54.000 --> 0:30:57.160 but one was that there were always musicians around to 0:30:57.160 --> 0:30:59.320 to try stuff out. So if I wanted to try 0:30:59.320 --> 0:31:01.840 my hand at right in a piece for violin and 0:31:01.840 --> 0:31:03.480 piano or I could do that. Or if I wanted 0:31:03.480 --> 0:31:05.200 to write pro right piece for choir, which is really 0:31:05.240 --> 0:31:06.760 like the thing I was most interested in was writing 0:31:06.760 --> 0:31:08.959 for voices, I could give it a shot and there 0:31:09.120 --> 0:31:10.520 it was all. There would always be a choir there 0:31:10.560 --> 0:31:11.680 to be like, yeah, we'll give it a go, like 0:31:11.720 --> 0:31:13.720 we haven't got anything else to do. And so I 0:31:13.760 --> 0:31:16.800 enjoyed the ease of that. I found the kind of that. 0:31:17.160 --> 0:31:21.560 I found the lack of focus on academia difficult to 0:31:21.760 --> 0:31:24.920 make the transition to because I loved using my mind, um, 0:31:24.960 --> 0:31:27.360 you know, with languages especially. I loved I studied German. 0:31:27.440 --> 0:31:30.080 I loved that so much. I loved English, and I 0:31:30.120 --> 0:31:33.120 love stretching my understanding and analyzing things and talking about things, 0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:35.240 and and so I found that the psychology at the 0:31:35.240 --> 0:31:37.560 Personal School was was far removed from that. It wasn't 0:31:37.560 --> 0:31:40.360 an academic place, and so that the sort of intellectual 0:31:40.440 --> 0:31:42.640 speed of my mind found it a little bit kind 0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:46.320 of just a little dry. But I loved just the 0:31:46.320 --> 0:31:49.400 space and time that I was gifted just to explore, 0:31:49.520 --> 0:31:51.000 you know. It was like more space to explore, more 0:31:51.000 --> 0:31:53.880 time to explore, more outlets to explore. And that was 0:31:53.920 --> 0:31:56.760 also the moment that I first kind of became interested 0:31:56.800 --> 0:31:59.920 in jazz. And I heard jazz before, but but I 0:32:00.040 --> 0:32:02.200 at that point I was crushing on harmony, like big time, 0:32:02.240 --> 0:32:04.520 like musical harmony, like chords, and what cause could do? 0:32:04.560 --> 0:32:08.000 I just I was losing my mind over acapella groups 0:32:08.000 --> 0:32:11.120 like Take six and Singers Unlimited and all these amazing 0:32:11.160 --> 0:32:13.200 you know, high lows and and all that stuff. And 0:32:13.240 --> 0:32:15.760 I was thinking man, this is this is amazing. And 0:32:15.840 --> 0:32:18.320 I listened to groups like you know, Steely Dan and 0:32:18.320 --> 0:32:20.720 and and people like that, you know, using these vocal 0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:23.160 stacks and stuff, and it was acceptable to me. I thought, okay, 0:32:23.160 --> 0:32:26.160 so that must be acceptable to write pop songs, to 0:32:26.240 --> 0:32:31.200 write you know, groovy song like the songwriting including this language. 0:32:31.640 --> 0:32:34.600 But I I was drawn into into the excuse me, 0:32:34.600 --> 0:32:37.320 into the jazz world through my kind of thirst to 0:32:37.480 --> 0:32:39.680 learn more about musical harmony and what I learned about 0:32:39.720 --> 0:32:41.920 about jazz coming into it really from from cold, like 0:32:41.960 --> 0:32:44.600 I didn't know any tunes. I had no technique on 0:32:44.600 --> 0:32:46.800 the piano at all. When you when you play the piano, 0:32:46.840 --> 0:32:49.360 it turns out it's actually helpful too. So when you're 0:32:49.360 --> 0:32:51.560 when you're playing a scale, to move your thumb underneath 0:32:51.560 --> 0:32:53.920 your fingers instead of just hopping up and down with 0:32:53.960 --> 0:32:56.400 your hand. You actually it's a fluid motion. I've never 0:32:56.440 --> 0:32:58.240 been shown that because I've never went to went to school, 0:32:58.280 --> 0:33:00.840 I never learned. So there a few a few kind 0:33:00.840 --> 0:33:02.760 of key moments for me, some some lessons, like one 0:33:02.800 --> 0:33:06.120 off lessons I had with piano players who said like, hey, Jacob, 0:33:06.160 --> 0:33:07.840 you know it's possible to do this, don't you or like, 0:33:08.160 --> 0:33:10.480 have you ever considered this particular thing? And I was 0:33:10.520 --> 0:33:13.920 so thirsty, I was so excited, and so jazz was 0:33:13.960 --> 0:33:15.880 a place that was very mysterious to me. But the 0:33:15.880 --> 0:33:18.680 cool thing about it was that people were improvising, which 0:33:18.880 --> 0:33:22.080 I loved the idea of people were playing chords, which 0:33:22.080 --> 0:33:23.920 I love the idea, but they were playing the chords 0:33:23.960 --> 0:33:26.640 in a in a melodic way. So it wasn't like 0:33:26.760 --> 0:33:31.000 cord cord chord. It was you know, a better better 0:33:31.000 --> 0:33:33.280 if they haven't never did, and that's the chord. But 0:33:33.320 --> 0:33:36.000 you have to understand that in a kind of vertical 0:33:36.040 --> 0:33:38.440 way rather than a horizontal way. And so you had 0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:42.680 these musicians who were improvising chords over time and space. 0:33:43.080 --> 0:33:45.200 And then obviously I realized that this language has been 0:33:45.280 --> 0:33:47.280 is about a hundred years old, and people have been 0:33:47.920 --> 0:33:51.200 you know, exploring and expanding this for yeah, for literally 0:33:51.200 --> 0:33:52.960 a hundred years, you know, from sort of Scott job 0:33:52.960 --> 0:33:54.440 playing all the way up to miles and the way 0:33:54.480 --> 0:33:56.920 up to you know, to to to the present day. 0:33:56.960 --> 0:33:58.560 And that there's so many kind of eras and so 0:33:58.600 --> 0:34:01.440 many magical spaces that that language has has operated. And 0:34:01.560 --> 0:34:03.760 I was I was kind of hooked for a couple 0:34:03.800 --> 0:34:06.320 of years. So when I joined the Personal School, I'm 0:34:06.320 --> 0:34:08.280 trying to think. I think it was the first study composer, 0:34:09.000 --> 0:34:11.280 which which I really felt out of place because everyone 0:34:11.320 --> 0:34:13.920 was talking about counterpoint and bark and notation and I 0:34:13.960 --> 0:34:18.839 was talking about logic and mixing and songwriting. And then 0:34:18.880 --> 0:34:21.520 I was the second study jazz piano player, and again 0:34:21.560 --> 0:34:22.560 it was like, I don't know if I'm really a 0:34:22.600 --> 0:34:24.600 jazz piano player. I sure like the idea of playing 0:34:24.600 --> 0:34:26.920 the piano in a cool way, and I thought I 0:34:26.920 --> 0:34:29.040 was the third study singer and a fourth study double 0:34:29.040 --> 0:34:31.240 bass player. And so I had this great, big tiered 0:34:31.239 --> 0:34:33.480 system where I would go to these lessons and some 0:34:33.520 --> 0:34:35.520 of them I I just didn't get at all, and 0:34:35.520 --> 0:34:38.160 I was very bored, and some of them were really 0:34:38.200 --> 0:34:40.160 changed my life. And I was just given a chance 0:34:40.200 --> 0:34:42.360 to to kind of explore. And what it felt like 0:34:42.400 --> 0:34:46.360 to me was that I was already chasing stuff. I 0:34:46.360 --> 0:34:49.359 was already fascinated by a language. So what that space 0:34:49.440 --> 0:34:51.000 named me to do was just to extract the things 0:34:51.000 --> 0:34:53.080 that I liked. It was like, Okay, I get that 0:34:53.120 --> 0:34:54.600 I'm in school. I get that there are certain box 0:34:54.640 --> 0:34:57.520 have to take, but aside from that, in Jacob Land. 0:34:58.120 --> 0:35:00.359 I think I'll use this chord and this called inn, 0:35:00.360 --> 0:35:02.840 this agorithm, and I like the idea of polarizing of 0:35:03.040 --> 0:35:05.799 whatever here, and I like this piece of and I 0:35:05.840 --> 0:35:07.520 was just I just collected, you know, I collected it 0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:10.760 in in a conscious way, things that I was enjoying. Okay, 0:35:10.920 --> 0:35:13.680 people would say, and many do, the jazz is dead. 0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:18.040 They say rock is dead. To someone who is a 0:35:18.080 --> 0:35:22.360 relatively young consumer under the age of thirty, how do 0:35:22.400 --> 0:35:24.640 you sell jazz to them? I'm talking about Jacob, I'm 0:35:24.640 --> 0:35:27.120 not talking about literally in the store. How do you 0:35:27.160 --> 0:35:31.880 get them excited about this sound? I've got two answers 0:35:31.880 --> 0:35:33.560 to that question. I guess the first would be that 0:35:34.719 --> 0:35:38.480 in jazz more is possible than in any other genre 0:35:38.560 --> 0:35:41.280 you could say genre, because I think that what jazz 0:35:41.280 --> 0:35:44.960 celebrates is a sense of freedom. It celebrates freedom thematically, 0:35:45.000 --> 0:35:50.040 it celebrates freedom musically, that celebrates music. It's freedom cerebrally, 0:35:50.320 --> 0:35:52.719 celebrates freedom spiritually if you really listen to the music 0:35:52.760 --> 0:35:55.520 and listen to the stories behind it. Um And I 0:35:55.560 --> 0:35:59.600 think that for anyone who's wanting to learn what music 0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:02.279 is about, out and understand a little bit more about 0:36:02.280 --> 0:36:05.480 the kind of the art of of what these forces 0:36:05.520 --> 0:36:07.480 can do. I think you start with jazz, and my 0:36:07.520 --> 0:36:09.920 dear friend Quincy Jones often says jazz is the classical 0:36:10.000 --> 0:36:13.200 music of pop, which I like, and I often use 0:36:13.280 --> 0:36:15.399 that because I think that in a certain kind of way. 0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:17.520 You know, if you learn class music, you grow up 0:36:17.520 --> 0:36:19.480 in classical music. It kind of ends in class of music. 0:36:19.560 --> 0:36:22.479 But if you learn, if you learn about pop music 0:36:22.480 --> 0:36:24.200 and you want to go deep, you want to go thorough, 0:36:24.680 --> 0:36:26.680 jazz is the place to be because that's the umbrella 0:36:26.840 --> 0:36:29.320 underwe all of those forces make sense. In jazz. You 0:36:29.440 --> 0:36:31.680 learn about pocket, you learn about groove, you learn about time, 0:36:31.680 --> 0:36:34.759 you learn about improvisation and stretching things, you learn about 0:36:34.800 --> 0:36:38.560 chords and melody, you learn about integrity and taste and 0:36:38.560 --> 0:36:40.640 and patients and all all this all the tools that 0:36:40.680 --> 0:36:42.640 you need to be a to be a musician kind 0:36:42.640 --> 0:36:45.000 of in many different respects. You can take that training 0:36:45.000 --> 0:36:48.440 out that's on the playing side. On the listening side, 0:36:48.520 --> 0:36:51.000 many people will say this is discord and I don't 0:36:51.120 --> 0:36:56.960 understand it. How does a listener gain knowledge and find 0:36:57.040 --> 0:37:01.000 this music appealing? Well, I think perhaps it's about letting 0:37:01.040 --> 0:37:03.360 go of the idea that you need to understand it 0:37:03.360 --> 0:37:06.319 to enjoy it. Um. I think if if people are 0:37:06.400 --> 0:37:09.719 used to understanding music on face value, which would make sense. 0:37:09.760 --> 0:37:11.200 You know, you listen to the radio and it's like 0:37:11.239 --> 0:37:13.720 someone will be singing about something that you can probably 0:37:13.719 --> 0:37:16.040 relate to and and doing it in a way musically 0:37:16.080 --> 0:37:18.480 that where there are kind of primary colors or I 0:37:18.520 --> 0:37:19.880 think things are clear. That's one of the reasons I 0:37:19.920 --> 0:37:22.719 love pot music so much because it's so clear, and 0:37:22.800 --> 0:37:24.400 jazz is almost like the opposite of that. But I 0:37:24.440 --> 0:37:28.399 think that there's a real liberation in letting go of 0:37:29.040 --> 0:37:31.040 needing to follow it and just kind of feeling it, 0:37:31.719 --> 0:37:33.560 which is important. And I think that there's a lot 0:37:33.640 --> 0:37:38.000 of catharsis that exists within the world of jazz um 0:37:38.040 --> 0:37:40.680 you know, from from really kind of completely free jazz 0:37:40.680 --> 0:37:44.600 with no time two quite quite organized structure jazz within 0:37:44.640 --> 0:37:49.880 you know, ultimately defined spaces, which is which is glorious 0:37:49.920 --> 0:37:52.520 and I think which can teach you more about humanity 0:37:52.520 --> 0:37:54.200 and the human condition and what it really means to 0:37:54.239 --> 0:37:56.520 be a person than than listening to a kind of 0:37:56.560 --> 0:38:00.239 manufactured storytelling style, even though that's also importan and I 0:38:00.239 --> 0:38:01.799 just think it's a it's an important part of the 0:38:02.239 --> 0:38:04.080 of the musical world to understand, and I think it's 0:38:04.239 --> 0:38:06.680 wonderful when you kind of let go of it a bit. Okay, 0:38:06.680 --> 0:38:08.120 So how long do you go to school? How does 0:38:08.200 --> 0:38:11.600 school end? Well? I was at the Post School for 0:38:11.640 --> 0:38:14.360 two years um and the sort of natural progression of 0:38:14.400 --> 0:38:16.839 events from there was I went to the Royal Academy Music, 0:38:16.960 --> 0:38:19.680 which is where my mom did that conducting when I 0:38:19.719 --> 0:38:22.640 was two years old. And actually her father, Derek Colin, 0:38:22.680 --> 0:38:24.840 my my grandfather, he taught there too. He was the 0:38:24.880 --> 0:38:27.640 youngest ever professor at the Academy. So I was super 0:38:27.640 --> 0:38:29.440 excited to go there. It's like, wow, this feels like 0:38:29.480 --> 0:38:32.520 I'm continuing a lineage or a legacy of sorts. And 0:38:32.560 --> 0:38:34.720 I went there as a as a jazz piano student, 0:38:34.960 --> 0:38:37.160 and I had again, I had a dicostomy. Do I 0:38:37.160 --> 0:38:39.400 want to study composition or do I want to study jazz? 0:38:40.200 --> 0:38:45.239 And composition felt kind of quite high high, kind of 0:38:45.320 --> 0:38:48.480 highbrow and not very tangible, but it was interesting to me. 0:38:48.520 --> 0:38:50.520 But jazz felt like I was going to do something physical, 0:38:50.520 --> 0:38:52.120 like I'm gonna play, I'm gonna learn, I'm gonna meet, 0:38:52.120 --> 0:38:54.759 I'm gonna jam. So jazz was what I decided to do. 0:38:55.120 --> 0:38:57.600 And it was a four year degree. It's a tiny 0:38:57.680 --> 0:38:59.200 course there was I mean, there were eight people in 0:38:59.239 --> 0:39:01.160 my year and that was a big gear. So I 0:39:01.200 --> 0:39:03.319 was the only piano player in the whole year. And 0:39:03.400 --> 0:39:05.640 we learned standards, and we learned about improvising. We learned 0:39:05.640 --> 0:39:09.320 a little bit about arranging, and we learned about rhythm 0:39:09.320 --> 0:39:12.880 and stuff. And at this point, I was, I was 0:39:12.920 --> 0:39:17.719 so engaged in my own world that I was. I 0:39:17.760 --> 0:39:20.319 guess I was caught between these two different psychologies because 0:39:20.320 --> 0:39:21.839 on the one hand, I was so thirsty and ready 0:39:21.880 --> 0:39:23.880 to learn. But I found a lot of the harmony 0:39:23.920 --> 0:39:26.920 that I was being taught to be not particularly inspiring. 0:39:27.400 --> 0:39:29.280 And I found a lot of the structures that existed, 0:39:29.320 --> 0:39:31.520 like the jazz structures, Like we learned the two and 0:39:31.520 --> 0:39:33.000 then we improvised, then we come back. I thought, like, 0:39:33.000 --> 0:39:35.400 why does this language need to apply to only jazz? 0:39:35.880 --> 0:39:37.400 You know, why can't I take a chord, like a 0:39:37.440 --> 0:39:39.759 spicy chord and apply that to something else? And that 0:39:39.920 --> 0:39:42.480 my mind has always worked like that. But I was, 0:39:42.560 --> 0:39:44.320 I was interested in it, and it was it was 0:39:44.360 --> 0:39:46.960 cool to meet people and to play with people, and 0:39:47.040 --> 0:39:50.480 you know, it was just a fascinating time in my life. 0:39:51.120 --> 0:39:55.359 And halfway through that degree, things got kind of much 0:39:55.400 --> 0:39:57.680 crazier with with the videos I was up learned to YouTube, 0:39:57.719 --> 0:40:00.479 and kind of throughout the last I suppose three years 0:40:00.600 --> 0:40:02.120 of the story where we've got to in the story, 0:40:02.160 --> 0:40:06.439 I was I was uploading, you know, YouTube videos from home. Things, 0:40:06.440 --> 0:40:09.319 I was making, things I was interested in I would like, 0:40:09.400 --> 0:40:11.200 I want. What I love to do most was to 0:40:11.320 --> 0:40:12.759 was to take someone's song that I liked to just 0:40:12.840 --> 0:40:15.279 twist it and reinvent it and and and you know, 0:40:15.360 --> 0:40:16.799 arrange it, really cover it. And so I did that 0:40:16.800 --> 0:40:18.880 with a few different songs, and one of those was 0:40:18.880 --> 0:40:21.279 Stevie Wonders Don't You Worry About a Thing, which I 0:40:21.320 --> 0:40:24.279 love that tune, and I did this this you know 0:40:24.520 --> 0:40:27.600 Jacobean twist on it and and the chords were all 0:40:27.920 --> 0:40:31.799 all funny and twisted and complex and deepen and an 0:40:31.880 --> 0:40:35.240 unusual and then I played a few different instruments too, 0:40:35.280 --> 0:40:36.920 and and things, and it was it was a real 0:40:37.000 --> 0:40:38.880 challenge for me because I've never done anything remotely like 0:40:38.920 --> 0:40:40.440 that before. But I thought, this is gonna be fun. 0:40:40.480 --> 0:40:42.680 I'm gonna learn something from doing this. And I filmed 0:40:42.680 --> 0:40:44.160 it too, and this that was another thing I was 0:40:44.239 --> 0:40:46.040 just starting to do, was I put film each instrument. 0:40:46.080 --> 0:40:47.520 I filmed the base, and I filmed the guitar and 0:40:47.560 --> 0:40:50.200 the percussion, all the different Jacob voice faces, and I 0:40:50.200 --> 0:40:53.840 put them in this mosaic and and then I pressed upload. 0:40:54.800 --> 0:40:56.560 The day after I uploaded, don't worry about a thing. 0:40:57.760 --> 0:41:00.040 Was just it's just crazy because I woke up and 0:41:00.080 --> 0:41:02.760 it was like a hundred thousand people have senior video Jacob, 0:41:02.840 --> 0:41:06.360 and you know, I went into Gmail and it was 0:41:06.400 --> 0:41:08.960 like Quincy Jones, you know, an email from Quincy Jones. 0:41:09.000 --> 0:41:12.160 I thought, God, that's just is that even real? You know? 0:41:12.320 --> 0:41:14.400 Is someone is someone messing with me deeply? Or is 0:41:14.400 --> 0:41:17.120 this actually Quincy Jones? And I wrote back and it 0:41:17.320 --> 0:41:19.520 was Quincy Jones and we got on Skype and we 0:41:19.680 --> 0:41:21.520 hung out a little bit, which is which is super cool. 0:41:21.640 --> 0:41:24.240 And I got an email from Herbie Hancock and email 0:41:24.280 --> 0:41:26.919 from from Tick six. So I mentioned and a few 0:41:26.920 --> 0:41:28.799 a few people that were just very important figures for me, 0:41:28.840 --> 0:41:31.080 especially with it that jazz moment of my life. But 0:41:31.160 --> 0:41:34.040 someone like Quincy had defined, you know, basically at that 0:41:34.080 --> 0:41:36.880 point up to up to two decades of musical education 0:41:37.320 --> 0:41:40.960 from his work with arranging for Frank Sinatra to you know, 0:41:40.960 --> 0:41:43.000 producing m J. And I mean, it's just so many 0:41:43.040 --> 0:41:45.719 different things that that he had had his hand him 0:41:46.320 --> 0:41:48.200 and so it was amazing to meet Quincy. And that 0:41:48.280 --> 0:41:50.120 was all happening in my second year at the Academy. 0:41:50.520 --> 0:41:51.759 And so at the end of my second year at 0:41:51.760 --> 0:41:54.000 the Academy, I had this kind of decision to make 0:41:54.040 --> 0:41:56.440 because this career of mine was kind of taking off 0:41:56.440 --> 0:41:58.040 and I hadn't planned the career. I hadn't planned to 0:41:58.080 --> 0:41:59.680 have a big career anything. I just thought I was 0:41:59.719 --> 0:42:02.200 making stuff I liked and and suddenly it was like 0:42:02.440 --> 0:42:04.440 there was this great, big adventure to be had, and 0:42:04.440 --> 0:42:06.000 it was like come over to La because there's this 0:42:06.000 --> 0:42:07.400 thing that we like you to do, or come over here. 0:42:07.440 --> 0:42:08.759 I'd like took you to work with me. And so 0:42:09.239 --> 0:42:11.120 at the end of my second year, I bowed out 0:42:11.120 --> 0:42:14.600 of the Academy and I started to full time tackle 0:42:14.680 --> 0:42:18.520 this this thing. And from that moment on, man, it's 0:42:18.560 --> 0:42:23.560 it's been pretty pretty NonStop. Okay, when you did this, 0:42:23.640 --> 0:42:25.959 when you shot the initial video for Don't You Worry 0:42:25.960 --> 0:42:28.359 About a Thing, did you literally was at a one 0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:30.319 man b and you both shot it and played it 0:42:30.400 --> 0:42:36.120 or do you have anybody else helping you? It was me, okay, 0:42:36.320 --> 0:42:39.360 it was you know, you're of the generation prior to 0:42:39.600 --> 0:42:43.360 uploading that. Were you uploading in your life other videos? 0:42:43.400 --> 0:42:46.440 Were you a social media guy? Not at all. No, 0:42:47.360 --> 0:42:51.440 I really didn't like social media at all. Um, And yeah, 0:42:51.880 --> 0:42:53.840 the whole thing was was was funny because on the 0:42:53.880 --> 0:42:56.439 one hand, like I've never really I've had a little 0:42:56.440 --> 0:42:58.320 bit of of a of an a version of sorts 0:42:58.360 --> 0:43:00.359 to people who just try and sell themselves all the time. 0:43:00.400 --> 0:43:02.440 It's just like, ah, I don't know, I don't know 0:43:02.440 --> 0:43:03.640 if I really like that. And I felt that when 0:43:03.680 --> 0:43:06.279 I was eight years old going to audition for these 0:43:06.680 --> 0:43:09.400 films and operas and it would be like these these 0:43:09.640 --> 0:43:11.480 kids with their mothers and they'll be like, oh my 0:43:11.560 --> 0:43:13.600 son's this and that, and oh we is big and important. 0:43:13.600 --> 0:43:15.080 I you just done this. It's just like, wow, I 0:43:15.120 --> 0:43:16.839 don't care, Like I don't want to know. I don't 0:43:17.080 --> 0:43:20.040 that's not my currency at all. Like it's great, but 0:43:20.040 --> 0:43:21.520 but like what is it? What's the thing? Like the 0:43:21.560 --> 0:43:24.560 thing is what I'm interested in. And so social media 0:43:24.600 --> 0:43:27.640 for me was odd because on the one hand, I've 0:43:27.680 --> 0:43:29.879 always loved connecting with people and it's something that brings 0:43:29.880 --> 0:43:31.200 me a great amount of joy and a great amount 0:43:31.200 --> 0:43:33.680 of purpose. But I never really liked the sense of 0:43:33.760 --> 0:43:36.040 kind of like YouTubers, you know, the currency of YouTube. 0:43:36.040 --> 0:43:37.839 It's like, hey, you know, I'm me and I'm living 0:43:37.880 --> 0:43:39.759 my life and you're a part of it. And so 0:43:39.840 --> 0:43:43.200 I kind of kept a lot of my world completely 0:43:43.200 --> 0:43:44.920 private from social media. And it was more just kind 0:43:44.920 --> 0:43:47.319 of like, here's the thing I made, and here's another 0:43:47.360 --> 0:43:49.200 thing I made, and there's another thing I made. And 0:43:49.239 --> 0:43:51.760 I didn't really I didn't feel the need to unpack 0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:53.440 it or talk about it or sell it. I mean, 0:43:53.480 --> 0:43:55.560 I posted these things once on Facebook and that was it, 0:43:55.680 --> 0:43:58.080 you know, and between I know that, between don't you 0:43:58.080 --> 0:43:59.759 know about a thing? And that my next video was 0:44:00.040 --> 0:44:02.520 snating rhythm, it was I think eight months and I 0:44:02.840 --> 0:44:05.680 didn't post once once at all, and I just thought, 0:44:05.800 --> 0:44:07.800 I don't need to. I've got nothing, there's nothing particularly 0:44:07.880 --> 0:44:09.839 to say, you know, I don't feel they need to 0:44:09.920 --> 0:44:11.880 engage people. I just I want to focus on what 0:44:11.920 --> 0:44:15.960 I'm doing. Okay, how many times you do you you uploaded 0:44:16.000 --> 0:44:19.560 to YouTube anything, whether it be you making a joke, 0:44:19.719 --> 0:44:24.279 you're playing football. Before were you YouTube savvy? Before you 0:44:24.320 --> 0:44:27.239 put up don't you Worry about a thing? I think 0:44:27.280 --> 0:44:29.160 I was about eight videos deep, or so eight or 0:44:29.200 --> 0:44:31.239 nine videos deep, and there were each iterations of a 0:44:31.440 --> 0:44:34.840 of a similar concept. But you know that. Yeah. I 0:44:35.360 --> 0:44:38.600 did a couple of kind of interesting, odd electronic things 0:44:38.600 --> 0:44:41.239 at first, and then I started doing the multiple face thing. 0:44:41.239 --> 0:44:43.000 And I arranged I've told every Little Start, which is 0:44:43.000 --> 0:44:45.600 a Jerome Current tune, And then I arranged Isn't She Lovely? 0:44:45.600 --> 0:44:49.080 Which is a Stevie tune, and and I arranged I 0:44:49.080 --> 0:44:52.960 saw three ships, and I arranged um over a beautiful morning, 0:44:53.040 --> 0:44:54.759 and and and a few of the things that but 0:44:54.800 --> 0:44:56.360 don't You Worry was the first time it kind of 0:44:56.360 --> 0:44:59.479 struck a chord. I suppose, Okay, do you have any 0:44:59.560 --> 0:45:03.319 idea what caused a hundred thousand people to watch it 0:45:03.400 --> 0:45:06.400 was just purely viral or did someone famous pick up 0:45:06.480 --> 0:45:09.000 on it? Or was it listed as you know, video 0:45:09.040 --> 0:45:14.200 of the day somewhere. Um well, I'm still not exactly sure, 0:45:14.239 --> 0:45:17.239 but I think that what I sensed, very keenly was 0:45:17.320 --> 0:45:21.080 that this wasn't just kind of like random people. It 0:45:21.160 --> 0:45:23.840 was musicians who are listening to it. It felt I 0:45:23.840 --> 0:45:27.200 felt like I tapped into some kind of musicians community worldwide, 0:45:27.680 --> 0:45:31.279 where something about the way that I was sharing the 0:45:31.360 --> 0:45:34.160 ideas and the musical choices I was making, that was 0:45:34.200 --> 0:45:37.080 the thing that I think took people by surprise. And 0:45:37.120 --> 0:45:39.279 I didn't really plan that, and I didn't think too 0:45:39.360 --> 0:45:41.359 much of it myself, because it was, as far as 0:45:41.360 --> 0:45:44.360 I was concerned, it was, you know, a fully up 0:45:44.400 --> 0:45:47.360 to date Jacob understanding of music, like this is my 0:45:47.400 --> 0:45:49.200 understanding music. This is just this is where I'm at. 0:45:49.200 --> 0:45:51.560 This is nothing spectacular other than what I'm thinking. But 0:45:51.640 --> 0:45:55.400 I think that specifically the harmony in that particular arrangement 0:45:56.080 --> 0:45:58.960 was was quite bold. And I know for I know 0:45:59.000 --> 0:46:00.759 for example that when I spoke to Intae, his first 0:46:00.840 --> 0:46:03.239 question where his first question was how many girlfriends you've got? 0:46:03.760 --> 0:46:05.319 And I said twenty seven and he was like, oh 0:46:05.400 --> 0:46:07.520 really man. And then the second question was where'd you 0:46:07.560 --> 0:46:10.720 get those chords? And I sort of, you know, it's Quincy. 0:46:10.760 --> 0:46:14.600 I thought, I don't know Benjamin Britain because I kind 0:46:14.600 --> 0:46:16.120 of got the from Bendorm of Britain in some ways. 0:46:16.120 --> 0:46:19.200 And I said, oh, take six five, and I checked 0:46:19.200 --> 0:46:20.719 out a couple of names, and he like laughed and 0:46:20.760 --> 0:46:22.560 he was like, man, I don't. I don't know how 0:46:22.560 --> 0:46:23.600 you did it. I don't. I don't know how you 0:46:23.640 --> 0:46:25.600 got to those conclusions like it's just mind blowing, man, 0:46:25.640 --> 0:46:28.520 it's crazy. And and that was really validating for me because, 0:46:28.719 --> 0:46:30.360 as I said, harmony was so important to me, and 0:46:30.360 --> 0:46:32.520 I really really loved it, and I loved pushing it 0:46:32.920 --> 0:46:35.160 and it felt like the musicians of the world sensed 0:46:35.200 --> 0:46:38.360 something in that video. But but and part of it 0:46:38.400 --> 0:46:39.880 was a musical thing. I think maybe part of it 0:46:39.880 --> 0:46:42.120 was also just a style of communication, which at that 0:46:42.160 --> 0:46:44.719 time it wasn't particularly rife. You know, like you had 0:46:44.760 --> 0:46:47.480 people doing split screen videos sometimes, but they were kind 0:46:47.480 --> 0:46:50.880 of comedy people or or they were you know, it 0:46:50.920 --> 0:46:52.640 was it was like a different a different currency, whereas 0:46:52.640 --> 0:46:54.160 I think I was doing something that was sort of 0:46:54.200 --> 0:46:56.520 purely musical. It wasn't trying to be anything more than 0:46:56.560 --> 0:46:59.960 just musical. And my feeling is, and I'm probably not 0:47:00.040 --> 0:47:01.720 right past to ask, but my feeling is that something 0:47:01.719 --> 0:47:05.760 about that as a statement, as a pure statement, struck 0:47:05.840 --> 0:47:09.399 some kind of chord with with people. Okay, how long 0:47:09.480 --> 0:47:13.399 after that initial time you're hearing from Q before you 0:47:13.440 --> 0:47:17.040 put out your first album in my room? Mm hm, 0:47:17.080 --> 0:47:19.919 three years? I suppose. So what happens in their three 0:47:20.000 --> 0:47:24.240 year period. Well, um, I went over to Montrose, Switzerland 0:47:24.320 --> 0:47:26.040 to the Jazz Festival, and I don't know if you've 0:47:26.040 --> 0:47:28.480 been there, that's just beautiful, beautiful place. And Quincy kind 0:47:28.480 --> 0:47:29.839 of rules the roost. He is kind of like king 0:47:29.880 --> 0:47:32.439 of montro And so I went over there to meet 0:47:32.520 --> 0:47:35.000 to to meet the great man, and I met Herbie too, 0:47:35.680 --> 0:47:39.760 and Quincy, you know, Quincy what was just so excited 0:47:39.800 --> 0:47:42.280 about what I was doing, and he kind of offered 0:47:42.320 --> 0:47:45.520 to be my my manager and to represent in terms 0:47:45.520 --> 0:47:48.920 of management. And I was extremely flattered and and really thrilled. 0:47:49.239 --> 0:47:51.600 And I was also a little uncertain because I've always 0:47:51.600 --> 0:47:53.400 done things kind of in my own time and on 0:47:53.440 --> 0:47:56.160 my own terms, and I I really was not about 0:47:56.200 --> 0:47:57.680 to say like, yeah, I'm going to go and be 0:47:57.719 --> 0:47:59.920 a big star. I knew that I needed to just 0:48:00.000 --> 0:48:01.960 do what I wanted to do. And so, you know, 0:48:02.000 --> 0:48:04.600 I met Quincy's team, who were just amazing people, and 0:48:04.640 --> 0:48:06.720 I got to know them a little bit more, and 0:48:06.719 --> 0:48:08.319 the kind of consensus that we came to was like, 0:48:08.400 --> 0:48:11.759 let's just be friends for a year before we sign 0:48:11.800 --> 0:48:13.520 any contracts, before we do anything. I just want to 0:48:14.000 --> 0:48:15.480 I just want to explore the thing. I want to 0:48:15.520 --> 0:48:17.160 take time, I want to get I want to I 0:48:17.160 --> 0:48:19.839 want to refine what I'm doing and and they were, 0:48:19.880 --> 0:48:21.640 they were amazing about that, and they really gave me 0:48:21.680 --> 0:48:24.000 a space. But you know, things started to come in, 0:48:24.040 --> 0:48:26.160 like I scored a commercial for Beats, which was really 0:48:26.160 --> 0:48:29.640 exciting at that time, and um, I I started to 0:48:29.680 --> 0:48:32.719 think about how I would tour um and even before 0:48:32.719 --> 0:48:33.960 in my room, I was thinking about at a tour 0:48:34.000 --> 0:48:36.919 and I was, I was gifted this concert, this gig 0:48:36.960 --> 0:48:40.279 that that Quincy kind of orchestrated for me. That was 0:48:40.360 --> 0:48:42.560 I was. I opened up much of justice will for 0:48:42.600 --> 0:48:45.799 Herbie Handcock and Chick Career two just giants, legends and 0:48:45.880 --> 0:48:48.200 heroes of mine. And I had this thirty minute window 0:48:48.239 --> 0:48:49.279 and it was like, Jake, if you want to come 0:48:49.280 --> 0:48:50.960 to montro and open up for these guys in some way, 0:48:51.000 --> 0:48:53.279 And I said, yeah, I'd love to, but I have 0:48:53.280 --> 0:48:55.759 not a clue I'm going to do this. And you know, 0:48:55.800 --> 0:48:57.600 we we we spoke as a team like what what 0:48:57.640 --> 0:48:59.120 could we do it? I could bring a band over, 0:48:59.480 --> 0:49:00.960 I did not. I did not want to bring a 0:49:01.040 --> 0:49:02.520 jazz band. I didn't want to be a jazz kid. 0:49:02.680 --> 0:49:03.960 I didn't want to do do the jazz thing. I 0:49:04.000 --> 0:49:07.200 didn't want to to do that, and I thought I 0:49:07.200 --> 0:49:08.880 could play on my own on the piano, but I 0:49:08.920 --> 0:49:10.600 thought there must be something more dynamic I can do 0:49:10.640 --> 0:49:13.840 that could that could kind of reflect more of my process, 0:49:13.840 --> 0:49:16.319 you know, one man band type process. And out of 0:49:16.320 --> 0:49:19.279 the blue drops a Facebook message from an m I 0:49:19.360 --> 0:49:23.400 T PhD student whose name is Ben Bloomberg, and Ben says, 0:49:23.800 --> 0:49:25.879 hey just saw your video. Don't you worry about a thing? 0:49:26.480 --> 0:49:29.840 And I think it's beautiful. And I make stuff. You know, 0:49:29.880 --> 0:49:31.640 I work with the Orc, I've worked with Image and Heap, 0:49:31.680 --> 0:49:35.040 I work with okay Go, and I built I built 0:49:35.320 --> 0:49:38.040 a robot opera for a composer called Todd Mcover. And 0:49:38.640 --> 0:49:40.319 you know, I like building stuff. And have you ever 0:49:40.360 --> 0:49:41.759 thought a boy building stuff? And if you have, like, 0:49:41.760 --> 0:49:43.520 give me a call. Let's jump on Skype. And it 0:49:43.600 --> 0:49:45.160 was one of those crazy moments where it's like, Wow, 0:49:45.160 --> 0:49:46.920 this is exactly what I need to be doing right now. 0:49:46.960 --> 0:49:48.759 So Ben, when I jumped on Skype, we had like 0:49:48.800 --> 0:49:50.799 a five hour marathon thing, and I had lists and 0:49:50.840 --> 0:49:53.120 lists and lists of stuff I had always wanted to 0:49:53.120 --> 0:49:57.520 build from, you know, intelligent harmonic systems, to tiered rhythmic 0:49:57.800 --> 0:50:00.680 manipulation tools, to a one man's show with the circle 0:50:00.680 --> 0:50:03.480 of instruments, to a vocal harmonizer where I could sing 0:50:03.520 --> 0:50:05.560 harmonies and play notes and out would come the harmonies. 0:50:06.000 --> 0:50:08.239 And Ben was Ben was really amazing, and he said, 0:50:08.280 --> 0:50:09.840 you know what, let's just start with the harmonizer and 0:50:09.840 --> 0:50:11.400 see how it feels. So I flew over to Boston 0:50:11.960 --> 0:50:14.920 a few months later, and a few things happened in 0:50:14.920 --> 0:50:17.320 that trip. One was I did my first ever master 0:50:17.360 --> 0:50:20.760 class at Berkeley, which is a school of music in Boston, 0:50:21.760 --> 0:50:23.040 and it was it was the first time I've ever 0:50:23.120 --> 0:50:25.480 seen anyone ever in the real world who was a 0:50:25.520 --> 0:50:27.760 fan of mine. I've never seen anything like it because 0:50:27.760 --> 0:50:29.680 it was all invisible from here from London. It was 0:50:29.680 --> 0:50:31.800 like this random thing that was happening in a different universe. 0:50:32.560 --> 0:50:34.440 And and the day before I went to Boston, I 0:50:34.800 --> 0:50:36.839 got a call from someone at Berkeley said, I heard 0:50:36.840 --> 0:50:38.040 you're coming to Boston, that you want to come to 0:50:38.120 --> 0:50:40.360 a class and be like guessing people together. And I 0:50:40.440 --> 0:50:43.520 got in that room and like the entire room was 0:50:43.560 --> 0:50:46.440 packed so full that none could breathe, and it's spilled 0:50:46.480 --> 0:50:48.480 out into the corridor and all along the thing, and 0:50:48.520 --> 0:50:51.360 I was completely unexpected. I mean, you have to understand, 0:50:51.400 --> 0:50:53.279 I had no I had no reference point for what 0:50:53.640 --> 0:50:56.160 the real world was like. I'd never even traveled abroad 0:50:56.160 --> 0:50:58.040 on my own, Like, this is my first flight alone 0:50:58.120 --> 0:51:00.560 away from home. And I did this class and it 0:51:00.600 --> 0:51:02.880 felt crazy to have people that kind of spoke my 0:51:02.960 --> 0:51:05.239 language that were interested in I went to see them. 0:51:05.360 --> 0:51:08.680 We built this vocal harmonizer. It was amazing. He's a brilliant, 0:51:08.680 --> 0:51:12.080 brilliant minded guy. M We then sort of graduated that 0:51:12.120 --> 0:51:14.040 idea into this one man show which we started to build. 0:51:14.040 --> 0:51:16.840 And essentially what that was was a circle musical instruments 0:51:17.480 --> 0:51:20.360 with with loopers that connected them, so you had a 0:51:20.400 --> 0:51:24.840 double bass of grand piano, you had percussion, keyboards, melodica, guitar, 0:51:25.200 --> 0:51:27.800 Me and my vocal harmonies are at the center. And 0:51:28.080 --> 0:51:31.640 that that show was kind of sketched out for this 0:51:31.719 --> 0:51:34.440 Montro gig. And that was in July of two thousand 0:51:34.400 --> 0:51:36.640 and fifteen, I believe, And so I went over to Montro. 0:51:37.120 --> 0:51:38.759 That's only five years ago, I suppose, but I went 0:51:38.800 --> 0:51:41.359 over over there and I did the gig. I did 0:51:41.360 --> 0:51:43.040 that the thirty minute gig, and we've never even run 0:51:43.080 --> 0:51:44.560 the show through. It was such a last minute thing, 0:51:45.040 --> 0:51:47.880 and it was really really really exciting and completely new. 0:51:47.920 --> 0:51:50.160 I haven't even really done gigs before. It's kind of 0:51:50.200 --> 0:51:52.319 like my first gig, you know. And so I went 0:51:52.360 --> 0:51:54.879 there and I experienced that feeling of like three thousand people, 0:51:55.000 --> 0:51:57.520 no one knew who I was, and and and it 0:51:57.600 --> 0:51:59.920 was it was crazy. And there was Quincy Jones her 0:52:00.040 --> 0:52:03.280 handcocked chick career, and Rashida Jones just sitting on the 0:52:03.320 --> 0:52:05.319 side of the stage just kind of looking and it 0:52:05.400 --> 0:52:07.640 was just a crazy moment, you know, really really crazy moment. 0:52:07.800 --> 0:52:11.640 And from that moment onwards, it kind of flipped and 0:52:11.719 --> 0:52:14.880 suddenly I think I felt like I had something to do, 0:52:15.160 --> 0:52:16.920 and so I did. I did some gigs, I did 0:52:16.960 --> 0:52:19.719 more gigs, I traveled just in different places, and we 0:52:19.760 --> 0:52:21.279 put together a little bit of a touring crew for 0:52:21.280 --> 0:52:23.080 the one man show. We we designed a visual element 0:52:23.120 --> 0:52:25.560 to it too, where there were these two connect cameras 0:52:25.640 --> 0:52:28.279 xbox cameras which captured my three D skeletal movements and 0:52:28.280 --> 0:52:30.160 so when I looped something, I would step away from 0:52:30.160 --> 0:52:32.880 an instrument and you'd have a Jacob incarnation on stage 0:52:32.880 --> 0:52:35.680 playing that instrument in visual loop to go with what 0:52:35.719 --> 0:52:37.680 you were hearing. So it's this kind of audio visual thing, 0:52:38.320 --> 0:52:40.879 and it was it was super fun. And one year 0:52:40.960 --> 0:52:43.200 later I released Him in My Room, the album which 0:52:43.239 --> 0:52:45.440 I made over the course of about three months between 0:52:45.560 --> 0:52:48.120 those two summers, and those are kind of like my 0:52:48.160 --> 0:52:51.320 first songs, and it was really gratifying and really exciting, 0:52:51.360 --> 0:52:54.600 and I learned times from it, and and so it 0:52:54.640 --> 0:52:56.879 was this thing where it's like, well, I guess I've 0:52:56.920 --> 0:52:59.200 got fans, I guess I've got an album. I guess 0:52:59.239 --> 0:53:01.680 I've got a show. I may as well be I 0:53:01.719 --> 0:53:03.800 may as well be having a career. And so I 0:53:04.040 --> 0:53:08.839 went on tour, and I toured from July one, which 0:53:08.840 --> 0:53:11.080 was the Daily album, dropped to the end of What 0:53:11.239 --> 0:53:16.000 I Guess with the One Man Show, and about mid 0:53:16.080 --> 0:53:20.960 teen I I was kind of excited about what I 0:53:21.000 --> 0:53:23.239 might do next, what I might create next, um, and 0:53:23.239 --> 0:53:25.000 there all sorts of things that happened kind of between, 0:53:25.160 --> 0:53:28.239 but between these times I'm mentioning, but I had this 0:53:28.280 --> 0:53:31.600 idea that whatever I did next, I wanted to be 0:53:31.760 --> 0:53:33.839 in some way collaborative, because this was fun and everything, 0:53:33.880 --> 0:53:35.200 the one man show thing. But after a while it 0:53:35.239 --> 0:53:37.120 was a little bit exhausting because it was like I 0:53:37.120 --> 0:53:39.839 couldn't really play. I couldn't really be a musician too much. 0:53:39.880 --> 0:53:42.040 I could be a I kind of you know. I 0:53:42.080 --> 0:53:43.759 ran around playing all the stuff and nailing it. And 0:53:44.080 --> 0:53:46.280 I was most excited by the audiences because I started 0:53:46.280 --> 0:53:48.360 to play the audiences a little bit and learn what 0:53:48.360 --> 0:53:50.520 what that felt like and learn what kind of people 0:53:50.520 --> 0:53:52.840 they were musicians they were. But I think after a 0:53:52.880 --> 0:53:54.279 couple of years, I was a bit exhausted by it. 0:53:54.320 --> 0:53:57.160 So I came back and I thought, whatever I do next, 0:53:57.160 --> 0:53:58.840 it's got to be something collaborative, and it's gonna be 0:53:58.880 --> 0:54:01.239 something big. And then that's what led me into the 0:54:01.239 --> 0:54:03.239 whole realm of the kind of quadruple album which became 0:54:03.320 --> 0:54:12.400 Jesse Okay. A couple of things. Adam Fell, who runs 0:54:12.440 --> 0:54:16.240 the label you're on, he would tell me, oh, Jacob's 0:54:16.280 --> 0:54:19.200 fans are really passionate. This is even you know before 0:54:19.320 --> 0:54:24.000 Jesse Okay, how did you gain the fan base or 0:54:24.000 --> 0:54:26.760 did you just you know, show up Because normally, unless 0:54:26.760 --> 0:54:28.960 you have radio play whatever you you could say you 0:54:29.000 --> 0:54:32.400 want to go into it, but no one comes. Um 0:54:32.800 --> 0:54:35.719 It's it's hard to say. I think I think there 0:54:35.760 --> 0:54:37.960 was probably something, and again I'm probably the wrong post 0:54:38.000 --> 0:54:39.160 to us, but I think there was something in what 0:54:39.200 --> 0:54:42.160 I was doing in spirit which connected with people in 0:54:42.200 --> 0:54:44.040 a sense that I wasn't trying to be a pop star. 0:54:44.440 --> 0:54:47.520 I wasn't trying to gain fans. I wasn't trying to 0:54:47.840 --> 0:54:52.120 sell records. I was kind of just committed to getting 0:54:52.480 --> 0:54:54.279 as good as I get doing the thing I was doing, 0:54:54.280 --> 0:54:56.680 and I wanted to deepen it. And so I feel 0:54:56.719 --> 0:55:00.400 like the musician community trusted that in a certain kind 0:55:00.400 --> 0:55:03.040 of way because they knew that it was quite something 0:55:03.080 --> 0:55:04.919 about it was real and quite pure in a sense 0:55:04.960 --> 0:55:08.040 like it wasn't I wasn't. I wasn't trying to sell myself. 0:55:08.080 --> 0:55:09.879 I kind of never have tried to sell myself too much. 0:55:09.880 --> 0:55:11.440 It was just a sense of I want to do 0:55:11.520 --> 0:55:14.200 something that feels right, and something about that I think 0:55:14.640 --> 0:55:16.840 gradually started to connect with people. And you know, I 0:55:17.120 --> 0:55:19.840 look back now and I think my first fans were musicians, 0:55:19.880 --> 0:55:21.200 and I would do gigs and it would be like 0:55:22.040 --> 0:55:24.439 musicians and be like, well, this is this is kind 0:55:24.440 --> 0:55:26.919 of niche and cool and for me great fun because 0:55:26.920 --> 0:55:28.600 they speak the language, so I can make jokes and 0:55:28.600 --> 0:55:31.440 they're laugh musical jokes, and I can take them places, 0:55:31.440 --> 0:55:34.000 I can defy their expectations, and there's this unspoken understanding. 0:55:34.600 --> 0:55:36.880 And then after my room came out, I sensed this 0:55:36.960 --> 0:55:39.839 kind of widening circle, which I thinks. I guess it's 0:55:39.840 --> 0:55:41.880 always had musicians at the center of it in in 0:55:41.920 --> 0:55:45.960 a sense, but I think something about the kind of 0:55:46.000 --> 0:55:47.759 the spirit of it and and the fact that it 0:55:47.840 --> 0:55:50.840 was just that I've always do. I've always been committed 0:55:50.880 --> 0:55:53.200 to being myself and that's been the most important thing 0:55:54.120 --> 0:55:56.840 um and I've always been willing to share part of 0:55:56.880 --> 0:55:58.520 that process with the world. I think part of that 0:55:59.120 --> 0:56:01.239 connected to people. One thing that I think was a 0:56:01.280 --> 0:56:04.600 turning point for my fan base was one moment after 0:56:04.640 --> 0:56:09.120 a gig in Chicago on February the Febuen for recall, 0:56:09.200 --> 0:56:10.759 two days after the grammar is the first time I 0:56:10.760 --> 0:56:13.200 want two Grammars, which is crazy, and a fan of 0:56:13.200 --> 0:56:15.719 mine took me aside after the gig and said, hey, 0:56:16.280 --> 0:56:18.600 I transcribed all of your arrangements and I said, wow, 0:56:19.160 --> 0:56:21.440 that's crazy, and he showed me the transcriptions. They were 0:56:21.520 --> 0:56:24.719 like ridiculously accurate, and I thought something, this guy's this 0:56:24.719 --> 0:56:26.400 guy is really amazing, And I said Hey, can I 0:56:26.480 --> 0:56:29.520 ask you like ten minutes worth questions just about music? 0:56:29.520 --> 0:56:31.000 And I said, yeah, sure, it's like can I film 0:56:31.040 --> 0:56:34.240 it setually? Sure? And he says, hey, Jacob, what's um 0:56:34.280 --> 0:56:37.279 what super ultra hyper mega meta lidian and I've made 0:56:37.280 --> 0:56:39.000 this art. It's like a concept I've made up. I thought, 0:56:39.040 --> 0:56:41.200 like I made up the concept. I said, well, June, 0:56:41.239 --> 0:56:44.080 it's it's the concept of superimposing multiple lidian modes on 0:56:44.120 --> 0:56:48.360 top of others. And it feels really bright and it 0:56:48.400 --> 0:56:51.040 feels really alien, but it makes sense because it's grounded 0:56:51.080 --> 0:56:53.920 and the fundamental and so what's the fundamental? Said? The 0:56:53.920 --> 0:56:56.760 fundamental is this and said, hey, Jacob, was negative harmony? 0:56:57.239 --> 0:56:59.719 I said, well, negative harmony is It's a principle that 0:56:59.760 --> 0:57:01.480 I come across when I was at school, and it 0:57:01.520 --> 0:57:04.520 was the idea that you could invert all harmony across 0:57:04.520 --> 0:57:07.320 an axis and it would become a like an alternate 0:57:07.360 --> 0:57:10.640 way of of of hearing and staying the harmony. That 0:57:10.800 --> 0:57:14.040 was a foreign thing. And I explained these things to him, 0:57:14.080 --> 0:57:15.759 and I kind of, I guess in human terms, it 0:57:15.840 --> 0:57:17.720 was like, this is not rocket science, this is not 0:57:17.800 --> 0:57:20.200 physics and crazy. This is just human stuff. It's just 0:57:20.200 --> 0:57:23.800 like high resolution emotional stuff. And so we spoke about 0:57:23.800 --> 0:57:26.560 all these kind of nerdy concepts and I felt great. 0:57:26.560 --> 0:57:27.840 I mean, it was cool to have someone who asked 0:57:27.880 --> 0:57:30.600 me the questions. That video made a big impact on 0:57:30.640 --> 0:57:33.240 the musicians community around the world. It seemed it had 0:57:33.240 --> 0:57:35.919 a million views within a couple of months, and and 0:57:36.040 --> 0:57:38.920 I think that people connected. Not the thing that I 0:57:38.960 --> 0:57:40.880 was interested in seeing the comment to that video that 0:57:41.000 --> 0:57:42.920 made me think was that it wasn't musicians who are 0:57:42.920 --> 0:57:46.560 connecting to it, just it was also people who are 0:57:46.600 --> 0:57:48.320 who are listening to the things I was saying as 0:57:48.320 --> 0:57:50.360 well as the things I was playing. And off the 0:57:50.360 --> 0:57:52.520 back of that video, I got a call from Ted 0:57:52.600 --> 0:57:53.959 to come and do a Ted talk, and I also 0:57:53.960 --> 0:57:57.040 got a call from Wired magazine to come and do it. 0:57:57.480 --> 0:57:59.800 They were doing a series about this. You know, you 0:57:59.880 --> 0:58:01.840 might have seen some of these five Tiers five five 0:58:01.920 --> 0:58:04.480 Levels of Understanding videos. So would be someone will come in, 0:58:04.520 --> 0:58:07.520 like an astrophysics expert and say, okay, this is astro 0:58:07.560 --> 0:58:10.960 physics but explained to a six year old, thirteen year old, 0:58:10.960 --> 0:58:14.360 eighteen year old PhD student and like master. And so 0:58:14.400 --> 0:58:16.360 they asked me to do this with Harmony, which obviously 0:58:16.440 --> 0:58:17.920 I was very excited to do. So I came in 0:58:17.960 --> 0:58:21.880 and did that, and and that video that very brought 0:58:21.920 --> 0:58:23.640 in a lot of people, which is which is very 0:58:23.760 --> 0:58:26.360 very cool. And I think that what I realized was 0:58:26.400 --> 0:58:29.040 that I was building a sense of trust between me 0:58:29.040 --> 0:58:34.720 and my audience where people would trust me in my 0:58:34.840 --> 0:58:37.920 creations more than they would trust how much they liked 0:58:37.960 --> 0:58:40.320 or understood the music I was making, because there was 0:58:40.320 --> 0:58:42.800 a dialogue that I was interested in and opening up 0:58:42.840 --> 0:58:46.320 four people about what music is and how it fits 0:58:46.360 --> 0:58:49.240 together and and and what drives it and why the 0:58:49.280 --> 0:58:52.000 concept why these kind of like heady concepts, theory concepts 0:58:52.000 --> 0:58:55.720 which means nothing without musicality behind them, why and how 0:58:55.760 --> 0:58:57.480 they can be applied in ways that are cool and 0:58:57.600 --> 0:59:00.120 makes sense and a groovy and kind of hip. And 0:59:00.160 --> 0:59:02.840 so there was this rush, this influx of people who 0:59:03.280 --> 0:59:05.920 had always been thirsty to kind of get interested in music. 0:59:05.960 --> 0:59:09.360 And obviously primarily this is musicians, but it really energized 0:59:09.600 --> 0:59:11.600 that community when I started to talk. And I think 0:59:11.600 --> 0:59:13.520 that the moment I started to talk, it stopped being 0:59:13.560 --> 0:59:16.480 about the music. It started being about the person in 0:59:16.720 --> 0:59:18.960 a certain kind of way. And so I would tour, 0:59:19.000 --> 0:59:21.200 I would travel, and I would and I would talk 0:59:21.240 --> 0:59:24.520 and I would play, and in a certain kind of 0:59:24.520 --> 0:59:28.120 a way, there was a sort of freedom that I 0:59:28.160 --> 0:59:31.680 was operating within where I wasn't planning much. I wasn't thinking, 0:59:31.680 --> 0:59:33.680 you know, what, what would be great is if I 0:59:33.680 --> 0:59:35.440 if I build a campaign, I make an album that's 0:59:35.480 --> 0:59:37.000 just like this, and it fits into this nation, We'll 0:59:37.040 --> 0:59:38.960 get players in here, and then this person. It was 0:59:38.960 --> 0:59:41.680 more kind of like, let's just you know, let's let's 0:59:41.720 --> 0:59:44.000 imagine that genres just don't exist for a second, and 0:59:44.080 --> 0:59:46.480 let's imagine that the music industry doesn't exist for a second. 0:59:46.840 --> 0:59:50.640 Let's just do something that is real and and that 0:59:50.880 --> 0:59:53.040 is meaningful to me. Because in my mind, if I 0:59:53.040 --> 0:59:57.800 think about what successes for me, success is just sustainability. Really, 0:59:57.840 --> 0:59:59.120 it's being able to do what I want to do 0:59:59.600 --> 1:00:02.200 for a long period of time and have people you know, 1:00:02.400 --> 1:00:04.520 be there for that and and and help guide it. 1:00:04.560 --> 1:00:06.240 And so I think that to answer it's a long 1:00:06.360 --> 1:00:10.160 rambling answer, but to answer you a question, I think that, Um, 1:00:10.200 --> 1:00:13.080 I think that I've noticed a trust that exists around 1:00:13.320 --> 1:00:15.880 the way I think about music, which permeates the music 1:00:15.920 --> 1:00:17.360 I make and the music that I talk about, and 1:00:17.400 --> 1:00:20.919 the music that I learn from um and I think 1:00:20.960 --> 1:00:23.240 that with the with the Jesse project, what I wanted 1:00:23.280 --> 1:00:26.360 to do was to stretch as much as I could 1:00:26.440 --> 1:00:31.400 open my my kind of genre space, to encompass whatever 1:00:31.480 --> 1:00:33.080 kind of music you were into, Like, there will be 1:00:33.120 --> 1:00:36.080 something you might like that that might encourage you to 1:00:36.240 --> 1:00:38.200 jump on the train that is that the you know, 1:00:38.400 --> 1:00:41.720 the Jesse train. So Volume one was a very orchestral 1:00:41.720 --> 1:00:43.960 album and it wasn't remotely classical. Well it was, I 1:00:43.960 --> 1:00:46.439 supposed remotely classical, but there were so many other things 1:00:46.440 --> 1:00:49.200 going on, but it felt like an orchestral album. Volume 1:00:49.240 --> 1:00:51.400 two was more of a folk album, and Volume three, 1:00:51.440 --> 1:00:53.040 I guess you could says it's an R and B 1:00:53.120 --> 1:00:54.800 album or a little bit more of a pop apum 1:00:54.880 --> 1:00:58.840 or electronic album. And I guess maybe maybe the thing 1:00:58.880 --> 1:01:00.720 that's been a value to people, and certainly I would 1:01:00.720 --> 1:01:04.560 say musicians, is the is the kind of fearless approach 1:01:04.640 --> 1:01:06.920 to making something just for the sake of making it 1:01:07.040 --> 1:01:08.640 rather than for the sake of anything else, and just 1:01:08.760 --> 1:01:11.000 kind of writing that out and seeing where it ends up. 1:01:11.000 --> 1:01:12.040 And I don't know where I was going to end 1:01:12.080 --> 1:01:13.880 up at all, but that that's the kind of thing 1:01:13.880 --> 1:01:17.840 that I've been committing to Okay, a couple of things. Uh, 1:01:18.040 --> 1:01:21.320 someone who goes to your show would be stunned by 1:01:21.400 --> 1:01:26.640 the then participation. You're you direct the audience to do 1:01:26.760 --> 1:01:30.320 certain things. How did you develop that? I will never 1:01:30.360 --> 1:01:34.640 forget two YouTube videos that really inspired me to do that. Well, 1:01:34.800 --> 1:01:37.280 I guess three things. First of me, my mom conducting 1:01:37.520 --> 1:01:40.400 because that was my first understanding that of what music 1:01:40.400 --> 1:01:42.280 should be. So I think that stayed with me. Two 1:01:42.400 --> 1:01:45.560 is Bobby McFerrin in the eighties did these spontaneous inventions 1:01:45.560 --> 1:01:47.840 gigs with just on his own with the mic and 1:01:47.880 --> 1:01:50.480 he would just do crazy stuff and it just be 1:01:50.680 --> 1:01:52.480 be weird and wacko and get the audience to be 1:01:52.520 --> 1:01:54.720 his accompanying figure, or he would accompany the audience. And 1:01:55.360 --> 1:01:57.040 that to me was like, Wow, I can't believe that's possible. 1:01:57.040 --> 1:01:58.840 I company you can get away of doing that. And 1:01:58.880 --> 1:02:01.000 then and then I saw Freddie Mercury at Live Aid 1:02:01.480 --> 1:02:04.200 with his corner response thing, and I think it's after 1:02:04.200 --> 1:02:05.600 the first song he just said he was like what 1:02:05.960 --> 1:02:08.040 and then the audience goes because he puts the microphone 1:02:08.040 --> 1:02:09.800 their face and he goes who blaa, and he was 1:02:09.840 --> 1:02:13.760 going and I thought like Wow, that's crazy. That's so crazy, 1:02:13.840 --> 1:02:17.400 you know, that's so cathartic. And I'd love to try that, 1:02:17.440 --> 1:02:19.880 you know. So last year when I went on the road, Um, 1:02:19.960 --> 1:02:22.760 I did it. I started my show with that wo 1:02:22.800 --> 1:02:26.200 wow wow, you know. And I guess that there are 1:02:26.280 --> 1:02:28.439 there are blessings and curses to having a musician heavy 1:02:28.440 --> 1:02:30.760 firm base, but one of the blessings is that those 1:02:30.760 --> 1:02:34.600 guys can hold a key. And so when I realized this, 1:02:34.800 --> 1:02:36.640 that it was more than just like a corner response 1:02:36.680 --> 1:02:38.400 with one line. It became much more of a thing 1:02:38.440 --> 1:02:41.520 of like at the end of each concept, after the encore, 1:02:41.520 --> 1:02:42.720 I would stand at the front of the stage with 1:02:42.760 --> 1:02:45.080 no instruments, and I would sing, and I would give 1:02:45.120 --> 1:02:48.280 people notes and I would say okay, and I wouldn't 1:02:48.280 --> 1:02:50.080 say a word, but I say, I point to say, 1:02:50.080 --> 1:02:51.760 one third of the room, and I go and there 1:02:51.800 --> 1:02:55.240 we go. And I point to another, you know, another third, 1:02:55.240 --> 1:02:57.560 and I say, and they go, and I pointed this 1:02:57.600 --> 1:03:00.479 god room. And then I wouldn't I wouldn't saying anything. 1:03:00.480 --> 1:03:02.840 I would use my fingers up and down and the 1:03:02.920 --> 1:03:06.720 notes would move and the harmonies would change, and people 1:03:07.400 --> 1:03:09.200 I think people really really kind of responded to that, 1:03:09.240 --> 1:03:10.760 and for me, it was like, I give me such 1:03:11.040 --> 1:03:13.000 such a crazy feeling, and it's like a you know, 1:03:13.800 --> 1:03:16.680 I felt massive and tiny at the same time because 1:03:16.680 --> 1:03:19.120 I wasn't doing anything, but they were doing everything. But 1:03:19.200 --> 1:03:21.080 somehow I was kind of I was guiding them there. 1:03:21.120 --> 1:03:23.680 So I was hooked. I was completely hooked on that. 1:03:23.760 --> 1:03:26.160 And since then, I've done all sorts of crazy stuff. 1:03:26.160 --> 1:03:28.600 I've got people doing some rhythms and I've got people 1:03:28.600 --> 1:03:31.400 seeing a different stuff. And and honestly, I think the 1:03:31.520 --> 1:03:33.760 important thing with that is is far less the musicianship. 1:03:33.800 --> 1:03:35.320 It's more just that it's like a sais of humor. 1:03:35.360 --> 1:03:38.360 I guess that that people that people respond to and 1:03:38.400 --> 1:03:40.360 a sense of ease. It's like it's almost like I'm 1:03:40.360 --> 1:03:42.600 giving people license to be who they are rather than 1:03:42.640 --> 1:03:45.400 who they need to be by saying just just saying 1:03:45.440 --> 1:03:47.880 just just go there, just like just step across the line. 1:03:47.920 --> 1:03:51.360 You're welcome, like you're welcome in my space. And and 1:03:51.360 --> 1:03:53.560 and that to me is if there's anything I guess 1:03:53.600 --> 1:03:56.120 I guess I hope to inspire by by the show. 1:03:56.240 --> 1:03:58.920 It's like it's that feeling that you're invited. It's like 1:03:58.960 --> 1:04:01.760 this is not an exclusive thing. You don't have to 1:04:01.760 --> 1:04:04.440 be anything, you don't have to feel or like anything. 1:04:04.480 --> 1:04:07.080 You just need to be present and will make music together. 1:04:07.120 --> 1:04:09.760 You know. Well, when I saw the last tour in 1:04:09.960 --> 1:04:13.120 l a uh, and I saw the things you're talking about. 1:04:14.080 --> 1:04:16.959 The people didn't look like musicians. There were musicians there, 1:04:17.000 --> 1:04:20.520 Herbie was there, you know, Steve I, etcetera. But the 1:04:20.600 --> 1:04:23.680 people that on the floor, they were fans of you, 1:04:23.840 --> 1:04:26.400 just like they would be fans of somebody else. So 1:04:26.560 --> 1:04:28.280 this is the thing, this is the this is the 1:04:28.320 --> 1:04:34.240 magical thing. I think. It's like I think everyone's a musician, 1:04:34.360 --> 1:04:36.840 that that's the thing, because I think music is just 1:04:37.000 --> 1:04:40.640 completely fundamental to being a person. And so all you 1:04:40.720 --> 1:04:42.520 need is to give someone license. You don't need to 1:04:42.520 --> 1:04:45.000 give someone skill. And I think that if you give 1:04:45.040 --> 1:04:46.800 someone license to be a part of something that they 1:04:46.840 --> 1:04:49.920 will And so yeah, I've I've definitely noticed that it 1:04:49.960 --> 1:04:51.720 doesn't have to be musicians who sing. But it's it's 1:04:51.760 --> 1:04:53.760 the energy that's the special thing. It's not oh yeah, 1:04:53.760 --> 1:04:55.120 you're out of tune. No no you're not. You're not 1:04:55.160 --> 1:04:57.680 you're not welcome here. It's more like, you know, if 1:04:57.720 --> 1:05:00.600 you're a musician, then then you'll carry the the non musicians. 1:05:00.640 --> 1:05:02.720 If you're a non musician, then you'll carry the people 1:05:02.760 --> 1:05:05.440 who aren't singing. And there's a sense of community about 1:05:05.480 --> 1:05:08.840 it and a sense of unearthing a a primal energy 1:05:08.840 --> 1:05:11.280 which I've I've loved and I honestly I've been bowled 1:05:11.320 --> 1:05:15.200 over by by by how far it's come away from 1:05:15.240 --> 1:05:18.280 the musicians thing and how much it just becomes more 1:05:18.320 --> 1:05:20.920 of a kind of experience that anyone can have. Okay, 1:05:21.000 --> 1:05:27.720 so why the name Jesse? Why four albums? Because music 1:05:27.840 --> 1:05:30.400 history is littered with people say, oh, this is a series, 1:05:30.440 --> 1:05:32.800 I'm gonna do X number and they never complete it. 1:05:33.840 --> 1:05:36.720 And you're also kind of boxing yourself into the concept. 1:05:36.760 --> 1:05:39.080 So can you talk about that? Yeah, you're absolutely right. 1:05:39.960 --> 1:05:41.560 A lot of my friends call me j C. It's 1:05:41.600 --> 1:05:43.480 just like a nickname I've had for a decade or so, 1:05:43.560 --> 1:05:45.360 and I quite like it, so I've I've adopted it 1:05:45.360 --> 1:05:47.200 a little bit, like Hey Jay, see this, Jay, see that? 1:05:47.760 --> 1:05:51.440 And this album. It's a kind of it's a kind 1:05:51.440 --> 1:05:55.080 of self titled exploration, I suppose, but it's not really Jacob. 1:05:55.080 --> 1:05:57.240 It's not like Jacob Collio or anything like that. I 1:05:57.280 --> 1:05:59.919 wanted to found a sort of spirit at the center 1:06:00.000 --> 1:06:02.600 of it, which encapsulated some of the values I've been mentioning. 1:06:02.600 --> 1:06:05.320 But it's like, you know, you set someone free in 1:06:05.320 --> 1:06:07.440 a world where everything, anything is possible. It's like the 1:06:07.480 --> 1:06:10.680 infinite child embodied in a character. Jesse is the character 1:06:10.720 --> 1:06:13.160 really so so you know, at first I thought I 1:06:13.160 --> 1:06:17.160 could call it, you know, worlds or ecosystems or and 1:06:17.200 --> 1:06:18.680 all this stime. I was like, that's not it, that's 1:06:18.680 --> 1:06:20.800 not something else is going on here. I'm bringing something 1:06:20.840 --> 1:06:23.200 to life here that's a part of me in some ways, 1:06:23.240 --> 1:06:25.440 and it's also something I don't yet understand. So so 1:06:25.600 --> 1:06:29.440 Jesse became that that figure for me. Essentially, Um started 1:06:29.440 --> 1:06:32.360 as one album, a massive album, spilled over into a 1:06:32.400 --> 1:06:34.680 double album when I realized that I actually had more 1:06:34.680 --> 1:06:36.880 to say, and then I realized that a double album 1:06:36.920 --> 1:06:39.920 would be so compressed in terms of like everything I 1:06:40.000 --> 1:06:41.400 was trying to say with it, which is so much. 1:06:41.760 --> 1:06:43.240 So it became three albums. It was three albums for 1:06:43.280 --> 1:06:45.240 a quite a long time. So you've got the big 1:06:45.240 --> 1:06:47.560 acoustic space for in one, small acouse space Forlume two, 1:06:47.640 --> 1:06:49.240 and then the kind of negative space Volume three and 1:06:49.280 --> 1:06:52.040 four that is great, terrific. I've got a concept, and 1:06:52.080 --> 1:06:53.920 I realized that that's not complete, because you need to 1:06:53.960 --> 1:06:56.360 come back to where you started to be a good storyteller, 1:06:56.800 --> 1:06:59.480 and so it's borning. Before I've always kind of held 1:06:59.480 --> 1:07:02.040 as the space which would somehow bring the concepts and 1:07:02.080 --> 1:07:04.760 the flavors together with which it is doing. And it's 1:07:04.760 --> 1:07:07.400 not finished yet, but it's it's quite crazily exciting, so 1:07:07.680 --> 1:07:10.040 I guess it. It evolved slowly but surely, and I 1:07:10.080 --> 1:07:12.360 planned out not what the music would sound like, but 1:07:12.400 --> 1:07:14.600 what the music would feel like. And I knew the 1:07:14.680 --> 1:07:16.560 Volume three would get weird, and I knew it would 1:07:16.560 --> 1:07:18.800 get dancing and poppy, and I knew the Volume two 1:07:18.800 --> 1:07:20.480 would be a bit lighter to the touch, and it 1:07:20.480 --> 1:07:22.600 would be a bit more sensitive, and it would, you know, 1:07:22.600 --> 1:07:24.040 it would feel a certain way. And I knew Volume 1:07:24.080 --> 1:07:26.240 one would need to be expansive and broad, and I 1:07:26.320 --> 1:07:28.479 knew I wanted to call up some musicians I respect 1:07:28.520 --> 1:07:29.880 them and get their help on this because I couldn't 1:07:29.880 --> 1:07:32.560 do it alone. And so littered across the albums are 1:07:32.600 --> 1:07:34.320 so many musicians that I love and respect, from the 1:07:34.320 --> 1:07:38.360 metropol Orchest and and and Lauren Vola to Steve Via 1:07:38.440 --> 1:07:41.080 to Liella Havas and Dody and Austin Gari sam amed 1:07:41.160 --> 1:07:43.120 On and then with Volume three, you've got you know, 1:07:43.200 --> 1:07:45.520 Keyana La Day and Mahalia Tyed Dolla Sign and you've 1:07:45.560 --> 1:07:49.440 got Tory Kelly and Jesse Rays and t Pain and 1:07:49.440 --> 1:07:52.480 and and Daniel Caesar And I think for me, these 1:07:52.480 --> 1:07:54.800 are all different. There's so many different kinds of flavors. 1:07:55.320 --> 1:07:57.080 And that was always the goal. As I mentioned, that 1:07:57.120 --> 1:07:58.440 was always the goal was to do something that was 1:07:58.440 --> 1:08:01.520 somehow collaborative. But you know, I'm producing the album on 1:08:01.560 --> 1:08:03.480 my own. I'm sitting in the same chair I've kind 1:08:03.480 --> 1:08:05.760 of always sat in, and so something about that for me, 1:08:05.800 --> 1:08:08.600 it's nice. It feels like I'm stretching something that I 1:08:08.640 --> 1:08:10.440 understand already, a bit like how I learned the piano. 1:08:10.520 --> 1:08:12.080 So I'll take something I kind of know a bit 1:08:12.640 --> 1:08:14.160 and I'll drop myself in the deep end of what 1:08:14.200 --> 1:08:16.320 that is, and I'll just try and get as deep 1:08:16.320 --> 1:08:17.920 into it as I can and and just like have 1:08:18.080 --> 1:08:19.760 have a bunch of fun and just so see where 1:08:19.760 --> 1:08:25.320 it ends up. Okay, But the albums are recorded sequentially, yeah, 1:08:25.439 --> 1:08:27.360 to a point. I mean when I was getting started, 1:08:27.400 --> 1:08:29.280 I would jump between them all the time. You'd be like, oh, 1:08:29.280 --> 1:08:30.559 I'm feeling of vol in three. Day to day, I'm 1:08:30.560 --> 1:08:32.320 gonna do something weird, or I'm feeling a gentle day. 1:08:32.320 --> 1:08:35.120 I'm gonna vollowing two song today, but voling one. I 1:08:35.160 --> 1:08:37.439 did fast because I had a flight, a book to flight. 1:08:37.479 --> 1:08:38.920 It's always the best way to set a deadline. I 1:08:38.960 --> 1:08:40.680 find this book of Flight. I had a flight to 1:08:40.680 --> 1:08:43.040 Holland to record the thing, and so I had four 1:08:43.080 --> 1:08:45.840 weeks to write and like write an orchestra and arrange 1:08:45.880 --> 1:08:48.120 all of the orchestra parts for an entire album, And 1:08:48.160 --> 1:08:51.560 so I did it. In January, flew over recorded the album, 1:08:51.600 --> 1:08:53.320 and after that I hoped between two and three for 1:08:53.360 --> 1:08:55.400 a while. I did a bunch of work on three, 1:08:55.439 --> 1:08:56.519 and then I said it came back to two, and 1:08:56.520 --> 1:08:58.160 then I finished two and released that one last year, 1:08:58.160 --> 1:09:01.160 and then Volume three. At that point it was like 1:09:01.439 --> 1:09:03.719 forty demos or something like those, and those of different ideas, 1:09:03.720 --> 1:09:07.320 lots of little seeds of experiments and things, and and 1:09:07.640 --> 1:09:10.080 even right up until about about a week before I 1:09:10.080 --> 1:09:11.680 delivered the album, the album was a lot longer than 1:09:11.760 --> 1:09:13.559 it than it is now. The album now has twelve songs, 1:09:13.600 --> 1:09:16.080 but up until a few days before it was about eighteen, 1:09:16.960 --> 1:09:19.639 um but I realized that I think it was important 1:09:19.640 --> 1:09:21.400 for me to learn how to call that statement into 1:09:21.400 --> 1:09:24.760 something that felt a little bit more cohesive. Um And 1:09:24.800 --> 1:09:26.240 so yeah, now what I've got to work on his 1:09:26.320 --> 1:09:28.519 volume four, which is a bit weird, but I guess 1:09:28.520 --> 1:09:30.719 you know, Volume four in some ways is the combination 1:09:30.760 --> 1:09:33.320 of all the different flavors. But yeah, I've hot between 1:09:33.320 --> 1:09:36.040 the universes a bunch throughout the creation process. Okay, some 1:09:36.120 --> 1:09:39.599 of these people are household names, certainly in the Spotify world, 1:09:39.880 --> 1:09:43.920 Spotify top fifty, etcetera. Did you call these people call? 1:09:44.120 --> 1:09:46.679 Did you have a previous relationship? I mean some people 1:09:46.680 --> 1:09:50.160 are jazz rap, Tori Kelly's, you know, pop singer. How 1:09:50.160 --> 1:09:52.760 do you established relationships with all these people such as 1:09:52.800 --> 1:09:55.839 they'll work with you? Well, I guess being a musician 1:09:55.840 --> 1:09:59.280 in the twenty one century, um me, it has has 1:09:59.280 --> 1:10:01.040 its benefits. And one of those is that it's it's 1:10:01.040 --> 1:10:03.760 easy to to reach other musicians. And I guess I've 1:10:03.760 --> 1:10:07.040 always felt that to an extent that the majority of 1:10:07.040 --> 1:10:09.120 the people I reached out to, you know, I had 1:10:09.160 --> 1:10:10.720 some kind of relationship, whether it's like you know, we 1:10:10.800 --> 1:10:13.200 just we we follow each other, or we've messaged a 1:10:13.240 --> 1:10:15.960 little bit, or we've had a session or two together before. 1:10:16.640 --> 1:10:18.800 So someone like Tied all a sign for example, you know, 1:10:18.840 --> 1:10:20.960 Tie hit me up on maybe it's on Twitter or 1:10:21.080 --> 1:10:23.559 on Instagram about three years ago, and it was just 1:10:23.600 --> 1:10:25.320 it was just, you know, really excited about but working 1:10:25.360 --> 1:10:26.920 together on something. And so I've done a bunch of 1:10:26.960 --> 1:10:28.760 work for him, and I've I've been on a few 1:10:28.800 --> 1:10:30.720 songs of his and I always knew I wanted to 1:10:30.720 --> 1:10:32.080 get him on something, but I didn't know when that 1:10:32.120 --> 1:10:34.080 would be. And so you know, I sent him a 1:10:34.080 --> 1:10:35.960 message or I faced time with him or something. I said, hey, 1:10:36.479 --> 1:10:39.160 you know, I've got a song and Majley is singing 1:10:39.160 --> 1:10:41.680 on it and it's pretty much finished, but it's it's 1:10:41.680 --> 1:10:44.200 missing some some secret source. It's it's missing some dollar 1:10:44.280 --> 1:10:48.439 sign magic. And he he that's This particular example was 1:10:48.479 --> 1:10:51.120 it was very gratifying because he he had a bunch 1:10:51.160 --> 1:10:53.280 of stuff planned, but he moved everything out of his calendar. 1:10:53.439 --> 1:10:55.280 He sat for a whole day and sang all this 1:10:55.439 --> 1:10:58.200 crazy stuff and and he was so excited. I think 1:10:58.240 --> 1:11:01.240 it was very energized by by the music because I think, 1:11:01.560 --> 1:11:03.880 you know, he's such a dominating force tire. You know, 1:11:03.920 --> 1:11:08.440 he's featured on everyone's albums. He's just a massive, dominating, 1:11:08.600 --> 1:11:12.160 kind of influential voice that's instantly recognizable a list guy. 1:11:12.520 --> 1:11:14.680 And I think that maybe what he found refreshing, at 1:11:14.720 --> 1:11:16.200 least what he said he found refreshing about all I 1:11:16.200 --> 1:11:17.439 need was that it wasn't trying to be any of 1:11:17.479 --> 1:11:19.400 those things. It was just a song. And also he 1:11:19.400 --> 1:11:21.759 could use his ears because his ears are crazy. Actually, 1:11:21.760 --> 1:11:23.920 he can hear all sorts of crazy stuff and has 1:11:23.960 --> 1:11:27.360 all sorts of musical intuitions and ideas which I think 1:11:27.400 --> 1:11:30.000 are amazing, and I think he he often feels like 1:11:30.040 --> 1:11:32.040 he can't use them, and so I think he got 1:11:32.400 --> 1:11:34.720 very excited, almost overly excited, and he sent me so 1:11:34.760 --> 1:11:37.400 many tracks of him doing crazy you know, auto tune 1:11:37.479 --> 1:11:39.719 riffs and stuff, and it was it was profoundly amazing. 1:11:39.960 --> 1:11:42.600 And so I use a small percentage of that um 1:11:42.840 --> 1:11:45.080 in the song. But most people were like that, you know, 1:11:45.080 --> 1:11:47.080 we've had we've had a connection. I'll send a d M. 1:11:47.160 --> 1:11:48.800 Occasional I would call out to someone called, like I 1:11:48.840 --> 1:11:51.120 did that with with Kiana, for example. I've never I've 1:11:51.160 --> 1:11:53.519 never met Kiana, had contact with her, but you know, 1:11:53.560 --> 1:11:55.320 I sent I sent her a song. I sent her 1:11:55.320 --> 1:11:57.200 the song on on a d M. And management then 1:11:57.200 --> 1:11:59.720 reached out to and and she said, God, I love this, 1:11:59.800 --> 1:12:02.400 Let's do it. And that was really that was really 1:12:02.439 --> 1:12:04.400 gratifying foot for me. And I've been giving a list 1:12:04.400 --> 1:12:06.360 of people that I respect the heck out of and 1:12:06.360 --> 1:12:08.080 I've wanted to work with for for a long long time. 1:12:08.080 --> 1:12:10.200 And so I think part of this project was thinking, 1:12:10.240 --> 1:12:12.680 how how can I make this person a part of 1:12:12.680 --> 1:12:15.200 this project? And at what point in the journey should 1:12:15.240 --> 1:12:17.120 would they most apply? You know? And then how do 1:12:17.160 --> 1:12:19.639 I build a bridge from my world into their world 1:12:19.720 --> 1:12:21.240 and kind of make it makes sense? And I like, 1:12:21.280 --> 1:12:23.599 you know what, what what can I learn from that? Okay? 1:12:23.600 --> 1:12:26.760 The coverage your famous for are from a different era, 1:12:27.160 --> 1:12:31.160 you know, it's you're you're pulling from Stevie Wonders albums 1:12:31.160 --> 1:12:34.320 in the seventies, you know, the early eighties Lion or 1:12:34.400 --> 1:12:38.200 Richie All Night, Long Moon River, which is older than that. 1:12:38.960 --> 1:12:42.080 Uh A, how do you decide what songs to cover? 1:12:42.800 --> 1:12:45.519 B What do you think about those songs which are 1:12:45.560 --> 1:12:50.360 all visa V what is popular today? Great question? Well 1:12:50.520 --> 1:12:52.040 as far as what's my criteria? For how do I 1:12:52.080 --> 1:12:54.360 decide it song to arrange. It's kind of simple. I 1:12:54.400 --> 1:12:55.720 just need to love it. I think I need to 1:12:55.760 --> 1:12:57.400 get excited about it and love it and think that 1:12:57.439 --> 1:12:59.200 there's something I can add to it in some way 1:12:59.280 --> 1:13:01.479 or the or the it would survive my reinvention. I 1:13:01.479 --> 1:13:04.120 guess I could say, um, And in answer to your 1:13:04.160 --> 1:13:06.880 latter question, I think that a lot of the music 1:13:06.920 --> 1:13:12.000 that was written, yeah, from seventies and back was was 1:13:12.040 --> 1:13:15.679 harmonically substantial. And it's it's a funny thing to say, 1:13:15.720 --> 1:13:17.680 but you know, you have someone like Stevie and his 1:13:17.720 --> 1:13:20.080 songwriting style was so rich musically, it was so much 1:13:20.080 --> 1:13:21.880 going on in the songs, but he was able to 1:13:21.880 --> 1:13:23.439 do it in such a way where like no one 1:13:24.680 --> 1:13:26.639 kind of batted an eyelid. It was like, yeah, you're 1:13:26.640 --> 1:13:28.200 welcome to just dance to the song. It's a great 1:13:28.240 --> 1:13:30.719 to you, but actually check out this modulate you know. So, 1:13:30.720 --> 1:13:32.920 so there's there was this multiple levels of his music. 1:13:33.840 --> 1:13:36.400 So if I if I kind of set my imagination 1:13:36.439 --> 1:13:39.040 loose on a song song of his, the possibilities are 1:13:39.040 --> 1:13:41.200 just endless because of all the choices he's made. The 1:13:41.320 --> 1:13:43.080 more kind of material there is in that to start 1:13:43.080 --> 1:13:44.400 with the more I can run with as a as 1:13:44.400 --> 1:13:46.800 an arranger of a song, so you know, and something 1:13:46.840 --> 1:13:48.560 like moon River. You know, it's not the mirror is 1:13:48.600 --> 1:13:51.639 crazily complex. It's actually a very simple tune. But something 1:13:51.640 --> 1:13:54.200 about the melody I've always loved and and you know, 1:13:54.240 --> 1:13:56.000 it's got a sense of structure, it's got a little 1:13:56.080 --> 1:13:58.400 ark to it, which I wanted to really kind of encapsulate. 1:13:58.439 --> 1:14:00.720 I wanted to stretch that. And it just has a 1:14:00.760 --> 1:14:02.720 lovely spirit to it, you know that that original, that 1:14:02.760 --> 1:14:06.040 original Mancini version. It's it's something really really lovely about it. Now, 1:14:06.040 --> 1:14:08.479 there's plenty of songs that are hip and popular right now, 1:14:08.760 --> 1:14:11.479 which I absolutely adore, kind of for other reasons because 1:14:11.479 --> 1:14:12.880 actually it's not often you hear a song on the 1:14:12.960 --> 1:14:16.360 radio nowadays that has chords in it, like, you know, 1:14:16.600 --> 1:14:18.800 like more than just kind of like Gore or or 1:14:18.960 --> 1:14:21.639 you know, it's like, actually, the harmony tells a story, 1:14:22.000 --> 1:14:23.680 and obviously I love that stuff. So I tend to 1:14:23.720 --> 1:14:25.679 be drawn to songs that tell those kinds of stories 1:14:25.680 --> 1:14:27.240 because I think that it inspires me to tell a 1:14:27.240 --> 1:14:29.280 bit more of my own. And what give us a 1:14:29.280 --> 1:14:32.800 couple of examples, Oh wow, um, you take someone like 1:14:32.800 --> 1:14:36.680 fascinating rhythm, uh, and that's a song that again it's 1:14:36.760 --> 1:14:40.679 quite simple, it's very repetitive. Um. But you know you've 1:14:40.680 --> 1:14:42.720 got you've got this thing that kind of twists and 1:14:42.760 --> 1:14:46.200 turns and it moves around these different these different spaces harmonically, 1:14:46.320 --> 1:14:47.840 and and it's catchy and it kind of stays in 1:14:47.840 --> 1:14:50.040 your mind. It has lots of energy built into it 1:14:50.040 --> 1:14:51.920 has a sense of humor. And I love that too 1:14:51.960 --> 1:14:53.720 because it really means you can play with it. And 1:14:53.920 --> 1:14:56.040 lots of words. So I take words and I put 1:14:56.040 --> 1:14:57.439 them in weird places and I flip them over and 1:14:57.479 --> 1:14:58.920 all that kind of stuff, And that that's all really 1:14:58.920 --> 1:15:01.559 good from because, as I say, when you're arranging, it's 1:15:01.560 --> 1:15:03.280 just about like what do I have to work with it? Like, 1:15:03.320 --> 1:15:05.479 what are my materials? What can I what can I 1:15:05.520 --> 1:15:09.080 what can I add here? Um? And you know there 1:15:09.120 --> 1:15:10.960 there are there are people who are doing this today. 1:15:10.960 --> 1:15:13.559 But I think that in general today some of the 1:15:13.640 --> 1:15:15.880 some of my favorite music that's coming up today is 1:15:15.960 --> 1:15:19.040 appealing to me in terms of production above all else, 1:15:19.120 --> 1:15:23.920 Like the production shops of people these days is absolutely astounding, UM. 1:15:23.960 --> 1:15:26.160 And I think it can be a little detrimental to 1:15:26.200 --> 1:15:30.000 the music at times. We have a society at large, 1:15:30.000 --> 1:15:32.960 in my mind, which is very used to compression. And 1:15:33.160 --> 1:15:35.240 I say compression in a musical sense and a non 1:15:35.320 --> 1:15:37.840 musical sense. And I'll explain that when I say musical sense, 1:15:38.080 --> 1:15:40.640 compression just means that you decrease the dynamic range. So 1:15:40.640 --> 1:15:42.320 when a song goes on the radio, for example, it's 1:15:42.400 --> 1:15:45.360 very compressed, and you have all the quietest sounds made 1:15:45.360 --> 1:15:46.840 a lot louder so you can hear them, and all 1:15:46.880 --> 1:15:48.840 the louder sounds are made much quieter so that they 1:15:48.880 --> 1:15:52.040 are reasonable. And so you get these really flat wave forms, 1:15:52.040 --> 1:15:54.040 which is just and it comes out the radio and 1:15:54.080 --> 1:15:55.840 it's like, yeah, okay, I get it. I can listen 1:15:55.840 --> 1:15:58.760 to that background. It's not going to necessarily pull me in. 1:15:58.800 --> 1:16:01.280 It's not gonna pull me out or push me away 1:16:01.320 --> 1:16:03.280 or whatever. It's just it's like a flat wave form. Now, 1:16:03.320 --> 1:16:06.240 I think people, I think people do this. I think 1:16:06.360 --> 1:16:09.160 education does this to people. I think it's like you 1:16:09.240 --> 1:16:14.040 go into an educational system uncompressed flak, you know, completely 1:16:14.080 --> 1:16:18.719 uncontained raw, and it's very easy to be worn down 1:16:19.240 --> 1:16:21.679 by the voices around us that say, actually it would 1:16:21.680 --> 1:16:23.360 be it would be much more reasonable if you just 1:16:23.479 --> 1:16:25.280 conformed here, or if you did it my way or 1:16:25.320 --> 1:16:27.679 this is the way it should be done, or or whatever, 1:16:27.720 --> 1:16:29.360 And I get it. You know, it's scary to have 1:16:29.400 --> 1:16:32.120 someone who's very creative in the world. It's like it's 1:16:32.160 --> 1:16:35.240 unruly and it's unpredictable and it's hard to control. But 1:16:35.320 --> 1:16:37.559 I think that what we're used to as a society, 1:16:37.640 --> 1:16:40.040 especially with in age of social media, is is compressing 1:16:40.040 --> 1:16:43.360 ourselves too into oblivion. You know, you think life is 1:16:43.360 --> 1:16:46.600 about extremes, it's not about it's not about what's on 1:16:46.640 --> 1:16:49.160 the surface all the time. Sometimes it is, but but 1:16:49.280 --> 1:16:51.240 life is about going all the way up and all 1:16:51.240 --> 1:16:53.439 the way down. And for me in my life anyway, 1:16:53.640 --> 1:16:55.920 those are the moments that are most colorful for me, 1:16:55.960 --> 1:16:57.559 and the moment I draw from as a creator the 1:16:57.560 --> 1:17:00.679 most too, you know, really low, really high, really big, 1:17:01.000 --> 1:17:03.760 and then the middle ground can be soft. It doesn't 1:17:03.800 --> 1:17:06.080 need to be everything. It's not like everything has to 1:17:06.120 --> 1:17:08.160 be in the middle distance. It's like that you can 1:17:08.160 --> 1:17:11.040 be foreground and you can be background. And and so 1:17:11.120 --> 1:17:14.320 what what overcompression does to our lives is it kind 1:17:14.320 --> 1:17:17.559 of defeats any kind of currency of threshold. You know, 1:17:17.920 --> 1:17:21.599 so all of our our worst impulses, our loudest thoughts, 1:17:21.640 --> 1:17:26.519 our biggest fears, are quickest, easiest shots of endorphins. Those 1:17:26.680 --> 1:17:29.280 rule us in that world, because those are the only 1:17:29.320 --> 1:17:32.000 things that even cut through their insane compression that that 1:17:32.040 --> 1:17:33.800 we've that we've come to do. You know, a lot 1:17:33.800 --> 1:17:36.040 of us don't really know about stillness. I certainly don't 1:17:36.040 --> 1:17:38.240 know about stillness. I think that there's so much to 1:17:38.280 --> 1:17:41.000 learn from being dynamic and all that to say that, 1:17:41.800 --> 1:17:45.120 I think what music is becoming now is thrilling and 1:17:45.320 --> 1:17:47.559 infinite in some ways. And I think that's what's cool, 1:17:47.600 --> 1:17:49.880 is to seeing people mix hounds together, mix flavors together, 1:17:49.880 --> 1:17:52.840 collaborate across disciplines, you know, which is amazing. But it 1:17:52.840 --> 1:17:57.160 has the danger of losing a kind of delicacy, a humanity, 1:17:57.800 --> 1:18:02.160 um of of letting you in rather than kind of 1:18:02.439 --> 1:18:04.320 stressing you out. And I think that we live in 1:18:04.400 --> 1:18:07.439 quite stressed out space. And so I guess what I'd 1:18:07.439 --> 1:18:11.720 hope for is a world where music can be sensitive, 1:18:11.800 --> 1:18:13.400 like deeply sensitive. And that's not to say it has 1:18:13.400 --> 1:18:16.200 to be simple, but you can have sensitive, rich complex 1:18:16.280 --> 1:18:19.559 music as much as you can have sensitive, simple, open music, 1:18:19.600 --> 1:18:21.519 and I think both have a very important role to 1:18:21.520 --> 1:18:24.559 play in the world. Okay, in today's streaming world, the 1:18:24.600 --> 1:18:28.479 history of music is available on the streaming services. So 1:18:28.640 --> 1:18:31.519 you have all these genres, the acolytes of those genres 1:18:31.560 --> 1:18:34.479 can be listening to that just that, But there is 1:18:34.520 --> 1:18:38.080 a top fifty which is really dominated by hip hop. 1:18:38.479 --> 1:18:41.160 So I have two questions for you. One, to what 1:18:41.320 --> 1:18:44.240 degree are you a fan of hip hop? Too? To 1:18:44.439 --> 1:18:47.360 what degree are you a student of the charts, the 1:18:47.520 --> 1:18:50.400 radio and what people are listening to? Great great questions. 1:18:51.760 --> 1:18:54.120 I am indeed a fine of hip hop. I listened 1:18:54.120 --> 1:18:56.960 to hip hop, probably in a different way to the 1:18:57.000 --> 1:18:59.000 way that someone who wasn't a musician would listen to it. 1:18:59.000 --> 1:19:02.439 You know, I listened to it for for for for 1:19:02.600 --> 1:19:04.080 groove a lot of the time. Like you know, you 1:19:04.120 --> 1:19:06.560 take Dealer for example, and you think, yeah, like you 1:19:06.640 --> 1:19:10.040 Dilla didn't really chart particularly and he didn't really he 1:19:10.080 --> 1:19:12.439 wasn't really at a household name, but he completely kind 1:19:12.479 --> 1:19:17.160 of he completely unbuilt hip hop and rebuilt it single handedly, 1:19:17.240 --> 1:19:21.000 like he granually re reimagined what that could be. And 1:19:21.320 --> 1:19:23.599 you know what he did that made that possible was 1:19:23.640 --> 1:19:26.599 he turned the quantized button off on his NPC three thousand, 1:19:26.840 --> 1:19:29.920 which is like revolutionary, and the quantize button is what 1:19:30.040 --> 1:19:32.280 had been switched on in the popular music since basically, 1:19:33.040 --> 1:19:34.840 which is the thing that drum machines inspired, which is 1:19:34.840 --> 1:19:36.960 like everything's grid based. Do do do do do? Everything 1:19:37.000 --> 1:19:40.040 is in a row, everything's the same size, And Diler 1:19:40.120 --> 1:19:41.960 was like, no, no, turn the contents button off and 1:19:41.960 --> 1:19:44.920 you get these sloppy grooves that go not like do 1:19:46.800 --> 1:19:51.400 but like there's like a science to that of like 1:19:51.439 --> 1:19:53.559 how to get that to feel the best. So when 1:19:53.600 --> 1:19:55.080 I listened to hip hop a lot of time, I'm 1:19:55.120 --> 1:19:57.120 really excited by that. But just because I'm a I'm 1:19:57.120 --> 1:19:59.679 a musician, but I also think that hip hop has 1:20:00.360 --> 1:20:03.080 has a kind of an ability to reach people in 1:20:03.120 --> 1:20:06.080 their power and to appeal to people's power and energy 1:20:06.120 --> 1:20:07.760 in a way that other kinds of music just kind 1:20:07.760 --> 1:20:09.960 of don't like it. It It kind of takes space in 1:20:10.000 --> 1:20:12.400 a way that I find really inspiring. It's like it's 1:20:12.479 --> 1:20:14.920 it's almost like a it's like a light. It's like 1:20:15.520 --> 1:20:17.320 I've got something to say, I've got something to show, 1:20:17.720 --> 1:20:20.000 and I can I can do that in so many 1:20:20.040 --> 1:20:22.479 different ways that for me as a musician kind of 1:20:22.479 --> 1:20:25.040 often blow my mind because I think I think about, 1:20:25.080 --> 1:20:26.280 you know, how do I tell a story in terms 1:20:26.320 --> 1:20:29.000 of music? But these the story the story is telling. 1:20:29.040 --> 1:20:31.479 Styles are much broader in hip hop. You know, you've 1:20:31.479 --> 1:20:34.920 got people being poets and and using ryme for reason, 1:20:35.000 --> 1:20:38.240 and you've got someone like Kendrick who's who's combining all 1:20:38.240 --> 1:20:40.080 these forces. And as you can imagine, I'm a huge 1:20:40.120 --> 1:20:42.240 Kendrick fan, and I love what he did with Butterfly, 1:20:42.960 --> 1:20:46.200 and and I love how he how he transformed just 1:20:46.240 --> 1:20:48.080 what that could be like, what what that could really 1:20:48.200 --> 1:20:50.439 what that could really do for the world. As far 1:20:50.479 --> 1:20:52.840 as whether I'm a student of the charts or not, 1:20:53.960 --> 1:20:55.760 I don't think I described myself as a student of 1:20:55.600 --> 1:20:57.640 the of the charts. I think it's interesting to hear 1:20:57.680 --> 1:21:01.200 what's on them, partly because I I it helps me 1:21:01.360 --> 1:21:04.519 learn what is acceptable, whether or not I choose to 1:21:04.640 --> 1:21:07.280 act on that um. And also I think it shows 1:21:07.320 --> 1:21:10.200 what's important at a particular time. And the charts always 1:21:10.240 --> 1:21:12.559 tend to show what kind of themes are dominating, what 1:21:12.640 --> 1:21:15.559 kind of style is dominating. And you know, one thing 1:21:15.560 --> 1:21:18.960 I've noticed dipping into the charts and often I guess 1:21:18.960 --> 1:21:20.600 it's a side point that my main experience of the 1:21:20.640 --> 1:21:22.800 charts is like taking Uber's, which obviously haven't done much 1:21:22.840 --> 1:21:25.680 this year. But I don't sit here at home I 1:21:25.720 --> 1:21:27.880 listened to to Top fifty ever, I I just don't. 1:21:27.880 --> 1:21:29.880 I don't just don't do it unless someone says, have 1:21:29.920 --> 1:21:31.320 you checked out this new song, and I'll say, oh, 1:21:31.520 --> 1:21:32.720 I haven't. Let me listen to it, see what it 1:21:32.720 --> 1:21:34.920 sounds like. But when I jump in an uber, I'm 1:21:34.920 --> 1:21:36.880 always like, Okay, this is this is how it is 1:21:36.960 --> 1:21:39.920 not right now, and I think that it's it's very interesting, 1:21:40.000 --> 1:21:43.280 but often quite joyless. That's what I've noticed. There's there's 1:21:43.280 --> 1:21:46.519 not a lot of optimism. It seems of genuine joy 1:21:46.720 --> 1:21:50.360 and things that just shine, you know, and you know, 1:21:50.400 --> 1:21:52.439 you you take a band like like cold Play, for example, 1:21:52.520 --> 1:21:54.280 who What Who I Love, and you think something about 1:21:54.280 --> 1:21:56.840 company is actually very joyous, it's very hope giving, and 1:21:56.880 --> 1:21:59.360 I think I respond to that in a non musical level. 1:21:59.400 --> 1:22:01.160 I think I shape that and I respond to the 1:22:01.160 --> 1:22:03.400 fact that that has a place in the world. And 1:22:03.479 --> 1:22:06.920 so I guess when I listened to the charts, I'm 1:22:06.960 --> 1:22:09.000 listening on on on on a few different levels. And 1:22:09.520 --> 1:22:11.240 it's always interesting to know who's who's in the charts. 1:22:11.240 --> 1:22:13.080 But I think for me, I'm always excited when I 1:22:13.120 --> 1:22:16.360 feel like something shines through, when something has has an 1:22:16.400 --> 1:22:18.519 impact on me. And and sometimes those things are like 1:22:18.560 --> 1:22:21.200 the grime ist, poppyist, hardest hitting things ever, because those 1:22:21.200 --> 1:22:23.600 things are badass, and sometimes it's something that's kind of 1:22:23.640 --> 1:22:25.599 unexpected that makes it up. Then you think, wow, that 1:22:25.640 --> 1:22:28.280 really tells a story. But I don't have any particular criteria, 1:22:28.360 --> 1:22:31.120 like I don't. I don't see reason to expect to 1:22:31.160 --> 1:22:33.720 be moved more by what's on the charts, say then 1:22:33.800 --> 1:22:36.559 what's on some other list of music. But it's always 1:22:36.560 --> 1:22:39.120 interesting to know, like what what's in people's conscious and 1:22:39.800 --> 1:22:42.600 heart hearts and minds. Okay, so you were nominated for 1:22:42.600 --> 1:22:45.840 Album of the Year needles to say many people were 1:22:45.920 --> 1:22:51.000 unaware of you. What has been your experience of denomination 1:22:51.400 --> 1:22:54.960 m Um, Well, after the sort of flabbergastedness which you 1:22:55.000 --> 1:22:59.519 could probably imagine, which which is still going and it's 1:22:59.560 --> 1:23:01.760 taken to weeks for me to even see it really 1:23:01.760 --> 1:23:03.920 because it's it was just it's it's overwhelming and crazy 1:23:03.960 --> 1:23:08.920 and immensely gratifying and strange. Um. I think it's been 1:23:08.960 --> 1:23:12.640 interesting seeing the dialogue around it from a distance, and 1:23:12.680 --> 1:23:14.960 I haven't engaged massively with it because in some ways 1:23:14.960 --> 1:23:17.200 it's like not my business, because my business is to 1:23:17.240 --> 1:23:20.599 make the music. But um, you know, I I completely 1:23:20.680 --> 1:23:24.520 understand the people are very surprised and very confused, and 1:23:24.520 --> 1:23:27.759 and I also I also understand that there are people, 1:23:27.880 --> 1:23:30.679 for example, like The Weekend and like Garga who absolute 1:23:30.760 --> 1:23:34.360 giants and people I massively respect who people would have 1:23:34.400 --> 1:23:36.880 expected to get that nomination or that you know, the 1:23:37.640 --> 1:23:39.759 to to be to be acknowledged in that sense because 1:23:39.760 --> 1:23:43.080 of what they represent in the music industry. Um, I've 1:23:43.120 --> 1:23:47.160 also experienced a kind of a real deep surge of 1:23:48.040 --> 1:23:50.720 support from from the musicians community, you know, friends of 1:23:50.760 --> 1:23:53.160 mine and people I've made connections with over the last 1:23:53.160 --> 1:23:55.120 five years. And I think that there's a real excitement 1:23:55.200 --> 1:23:58.680 that that it's possible to to kind of create for 1:23:58.720 --> 1:24:02.000 the sake of creation, but to be held in whatever 1:24:02.160 --> 1:24:04.639 esteem you know, that particular nomination means. And it's crazy 1:24:04.680 --> 1:24:06.840 to sit, you know, next to Taylor and next to 1:24:06.920 --> 1:24:09.680 Dour and next the Post and Chris Martin and the 1:24:09.720 --> 1:24:11.720 Gang and everyone in that in that category and to 1:24:11.800 --> 1:24:15.479 feel like I don't maybe need to apologize for who 1:24:15.520 --> 1:24:16.960 I am and what I'm what I'm doing, and that's 1:24:16.960 --> 1:24:20.920 a kind of interesting feeling. But you know, I guess 1:24:20.960 --> 1:24:23.360 I've been I've been taking it day by day and 1:24:23.360 --> 1:24:25.200 and I think what strikes me about the Grammys, which 1:24:25.240 --> 1:24:27.200 I which I really love, is that it was founded 1:24:27.200 --> 1:24:30.040 by musicians and it's voted on by musicians, and that 1:24:30.080 --> 1:24:32.599 sets it apart, I guess from a lot of other awards, 1:24:32.640 --> 1:24:35.559 take the am As for example. You know the Grammy, 1:24:35.600 --> 1:24:37.559 you have to have a I think it's two credits 1:24:38.240 --> 1:24:42.160 on in a creative sense, on you know, a piece 1:24:42.160 --> 1:24:44.880 of recorded music that's been published to have a voice 1:24:44.880 --> 1:24:46.280 in the Grammys. And so I think something about the 1:24:46.320 --> 1:24:49.760 Grammys it is quite pure in a sense that you know, 1:24:50.040 --> 1:24:54.360 it should feel like whatever the music is should be 1:24:54.439 --> 1:24:57.240 pitted equally against whatever the other music is, not because 1:24:57.240 --> 1:24:58.880 of what the music represents, but just because of what 1:24:58.920 --> 1:25:01.800 it sounds like. And man, I just didn't see it 1:25:01.800 --> 1:25:05.680 coming at all. But I'm immensely gratified that somehow, you know, 1:25:05.760 --> 1:25:08.799 this part of my my musical journey, as it's continuing, 1:25:08.840 --> 1:25:11.439 as it's growing, can be can be recognized and can 1:25:11.560 --> 1:25:15.880 can get that nod. Okay, It's one thing to labor 1:25:16.080 --> 1:25:21.559 in obscurity or off away from the spotlight. Many people, 1:25:21.680 --> 1:25:26.720 once the spotlight is upon them, they become inhibited. Uh, 1:25:26.840 --> 1:25:29.000 they try to live up a standard there. You know, 1:25:29.040 --> 1:25:32.320 the landscape is littered with people did something great, they 1:25:32.360 --> 1:25:35.600 got universal acceptance. Could never equal that again. So to 1:25:35.720 --> 1:25:39.880 what degree do you believe already or is it in 1:25:39.920 --> 1:25:45.280 your mind use a negative word that this might be crippling. Yeah, 1:25:45.320 --> 1:25:48.280 so I've thought about this very much. Actually, I'm not 1:25:48.360 --> 1:25:52.200 worried because I think that I've been very clear with 1:25:52.240 --> 1:25:55.400 myself about why I'm doing this, and I think it 1:25:55.400 --> 1:25:59.320 would be crippling. It will be crippling. The expectations at 1:25:59.320 --> 1:26:01.080 this point in my careup crippling if I planned it, 1:26:01.520 --> 1:26:03.200 you know, if i'd have if I had a campaign, 1:26:03.200 --> 1:26:05.200 if I spent millions of dollars on every music video 1:26:05.240 --> 1:26:07.479 because I knew that what I really needed was an 1:26:07.479 --> 1:26:10.040 Album of the Year nomination or Album of the Year 1:26:10.040 --> 1:26:13.320 win or whatever. I think if I'd set out to 1:26:13.439 --> 1:26:16.559 do that. Honestly, it's completely valid to to want that 1:26:16.640 --> 1:26:19.639 and to strive or something like that, but it's it's 1:26:19.640 --> 1:26:22.040 never been my thing, and so I think the reason 1:26:22.080 --> 1:26:24.960 I feel safe in a sense creatively is because I've 1:26:24.960 --> 1:26:27.559 got more ideas than I have time for, and I 1:26:27.600 --> 1:26:30.040 think if there's anything this might kind of buy me, 1:26:30.120 --> 1:26:32.920 it's it's it's time in a sense. It's like time 1:26:32.920 --> 1:26:35.200 where I can be I can do things on my 1:26:35.240 --> 1:26:37.599 own terms for longer, and that hasn't led me wrong 1:26:37.640 --> 1:26:40.680 thus far, and so I think that I think I'll 1:26:40.680 --> 1:26:42.599 only really know what it feels like over the course 1:26:42.640 --> 1:26:44.320 of over the next few months. And I can't say 1:26:44.320 --> 1:26:48.360 anything for sure, but I think that it's it feels 1:26:48.400 --> 1:26:52.439 like a spotlight is on something which is not it's 1:26:52.479 --> 1:26:54.479 it's almost like it's on something that's outside my control. 1:26:54.560 --> 1:26:56.800 It's not something I even care to control per se. 1:26:57.120 --> 1:26:59.760 I don't think that the next album might create needs 1:26:59.800 --> 1:27:03.040 to equal the success of Jesse Volham three. I think 1:27:03.040 --> 1:27:05.880 it may surpass it or it may not, and I 1:27:05.920 --> 1:27:07.479 don't I don't mind too much because I think that 1:27:07.760 --> 1:27:11.000 what's exciting for me is just being able to to 1:27:11.000 --> 1:27:13.839 to make connections with people, and obviously the main excitement 1:27:13.840 --> 1:27:15.960 for me about the Grammy is that it's it's just 1:27:16.000 --> 1:27:18.960 so cool to be to be able to kind of 1:27:19.000 --> 1:27:21.920 communicate on that scale and for my statements to stand 1:27:22.479 --> 1:27:25.160 in in in that in that scale. But I somehow 1:27:25.200 --> 1:27:28.240 feel like if I'd done things in a rush, or 1:27:28.280 --> 1:27:29.840 if I had, you know, signed with Quincy on the 1:27:29.880 --> 1:27:31.360 day that he asked me to, or if I had 1:27:31.760 --> 1:27:35.599 compromised really in any in any way along my journey, 1:27:36.280 --> 1:27:37.880 I feel like this was all for something, like I 1:27:37.920 --> 1:27:41.120 was investing in something, some goal. But I don't feel 1:27:41.160 --> 1:27:42.640 like that. I don't feel like I've compromised, and I 1:27:42.680 --> 1:27:44.479 don't feel like there's a reason for it all to happen. 1:27:44.520 --> 1:27:46.679 So it almost feels like a bit of a bonus 1:27:46.720 --> 1:27:50.040 to a healthy process which has been going for a 1:27:50.080 --> 1:27:53.360 long time. And sure, there's definitely pressure, and there's definitely 1:27:53.800 --> 1:27:56.320 I mean that there's there's there's time pressure, there's energy pressure, 1:27:56.439 --> 1:28:00.320 and there's expectations. But I think in a certain kind 1:28:00.320 --> 1:28:02.720 of a way, I just trust. I just kind of 1:28:02.760 --> 1:28:05.200 trust it. I trust myself in it, and and I 1:28:05.240 --> 1:28:09.559 trust the right thing will happen. Okay, people think that 1:28:11.240 --> 1:28:13.599 musicians are only in it for the money. Certainly, Gene 1:28:13.640 --> 1:28:16.960 Simmons says that, but I've found a true artist wants 1:28:17.000 --> 1:28:21.240 more people to experience their art. Now that a door 1:28:21.400 --> 1:28:26.920 has opened and people are aware of you, and theoretically 1:28:26.960 --> 1:28:29.160 you could have a bigger peak, but this is pretty 1:28:29.240 --> 1:28:32.080 high up. There is there any desire to say I 1:28:32.120 --> 1:28:34.719 want to make a piece of music that will spread 1:28:34.800 --> 1:28:39.960 to more people? Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. I that could 1:28:40.000 --> 1:28:41.800 take so many forms that I'm not sure. I'm not 1:28:41.840 --> 1:28:44.639 sure how how I would answer that creatively. Yet I'll 1:28:44.680 --> 1:28:46.920 make it simple. Do you say, hey, I want to 1:28:46.920 --> 1:28:51.439 write a hit? Um? I did. I'm not sure I 1:28:51.439 --> 1:28:52.760 would say I want to write a hit. I'd love 1:28:52.800 --> 1:28:54.840 to write a song that reaches lots of people. I 1:28:54.840 --> 1:28:57.640 guess that maybe that's a hit, but I think that 1:28:57.720 --> 1:28:59.240 I'll know if it feels good to me when I 1:28:59.240 --> 1:29:02.320 listened to it. Um. And I think that if if 1:29:02.320 --> 1:29:03.960 there was ever a moment to consider what that would 1:29:04.000 --> 1:29:06.320 be is now and and hell yeah, like I'm I'm 1:29:06.360 --> 1:29:09.439 excited to consider what what place I would take in that, 1:29:09.800 --> 1:29:11.720 in whatever space has been made available for me at 1:29:11.760 --> 1:29:13.880 this point in my career. And yeah, I'm I'm I'm 1:29:13.960 --> 1:29:16.240 I'm excited to figure that out. And I think I'm 1:29:16.280 --> 1:29:20.120 also excited to, in so doing, bring people into something 1:29:20.160 --> 1:29:22.280 which is bigger than a single moment. You know, because 1:29:22.640 --> 1:29:24.479 I've never been the kind of artist who is led 1:29:24.479 --> 1:29:28.679 by singles, campaigns, particularly or the idea that it always 1:29:28.680 --> 1:29:30.599 has everything is about this one moment. It's all about 1:29:30.600 --> 1:29:33.639 happening right now. And so rather than wanting to peak, 1:29:34.200 --> 1:29:36.599 you know, I think I want to bring people into 1:29:36.640 --> 1:29:38.559 something which is just moving, and I think the movements 1:29:38.560 --> 1:29:40.720 what's important. So what I would hope if I did, say, 1:29:40.760 --> 1:29:43.679 for example, write a hit which would be super cool, UM, 1:29:43.800 --> 1:29:45.960 would be that people would figure out that it's part 1:29:46.000 --> 1:29:48.960 of something bigger and then and then those other parts 1:29:49.000 --> 1:29:51.800 of of the operation would would get elevated to you know. 1:29:52.360 --> 1:29:54.959 And for me, somehow that feels like the most sustainable 1:29:55.000 --> 1:29:57.400 way of writing a hit, rather than thinking this is 1:29:57.400 --> 1:29:59.479 a chance for me to write one song that completely 1:29:59.560 --> 1:30:01.280 changes the and then I can feel like I've done 1:30:01.320 --> 1:30:04.680 my thing. I almost feel like, you know, there's absolutely 1:30:04.680 --> 1:30:06.519 no cap to the number of people I would love 1:30:06.560 --> 1:30:09.880 to reach. Um. But I think that I think that 1:30:09.920 --> 1:30:11.880 it needs to happen in in its own time, and 1:30:12.200 --> 1:30:15.320 I would be really excited to bring people into this 1:30:15.400 --> 1:30:18.680 like ever expanding world that I'm kind of operating in, 1:30:18.720 --> 1:30:20.479 and I'd love to I'd love to figure out like 1:30:20.560 --> 1:30:23.599 what what it all means in a in a global sense. 1:30:23.600 --> 1:30:25.799 I'd love for more people to come to my shows, 1:30:25.800 --> 1:30:28.960 for example, and experience them, and I'd love to to 1:30:28.960 --> 1:30:31.559 to reach more more people in that sense. But I'm 1:30:31.600 --> 1:30:33.280 not too fussed about having a hit, to be honest, 1:30:33.280 --> 1:30:35.599 in a in a pure sense, I think I'm I'm 1:30:35.600 --> 1:30:38.439 more interested in making music that there is right to 1:30:38.520 --> 1:30:41.400 make when it's right to make it. Okay, you were 1:30:41.439 --> 1:30:45.040 a young viril man on the road. Although your music 1:30:45.160 --> 1:30:50.599 may be unique, certain things stand true. The travel, the gig, 1:30:51.040 --> 1:30:55.640 the fans, the dope, the alcohol, the women. To what 1:30:55.880 --> 1:30:58.920 degree have you partaken of the perks of the road, 1:30:59.439 --> 1:31:03.479 great question? Um, I honestly, I've never been into drugs 1:31:03.520 --> 1:31:07.360 and alcohol particularly. I'll have a drink occasionally and that 1:31:07.360 --> 1:31:10.280 could be nice, but um, you know that. So I 1:31:10.280 --> 1:31:12.280 think that that part of things I've always tended to 1:31:12.280 --> 1:31:14.320 stay clear from. And I remember going on the road, 1:31:14.400 --> 1:31:16.120 and I remember having a drink after each show the 1:31:16.160 --> 1:31:18.400 first time on the road, and I remember doing the 1:31:18.400 --> 1:31:20.479 show the next day and thinking I just don't quite 1:31:20.479 --> 1:31:22.960 feel as sharp as I did yesterday, and thinking, you 1:31:22.960 --> 1:31:24.240 know what, then it's probably not worth it, so I'm 1:31:24.240 --> 1:31:25.760 going to stop. So I was actually quite pleased with 1:31:25.800 --> 1:31:28.719 myself for stopping that thing. Um, as far as adoring 1:31:28.760 --> 1:31:31.000 fans and and and girls and all sorts of things 1:31:31.040 --> 1:31:34.080 like that. Um, I mean, I guess I'm very early 1:31:34.120 --> 1:31:37.040 on in my journey and I've I've definitely seen that 1:31:37.040 --> 1:31:38.879 there's that there can be a particularly kind of attention. 1:31:39.920 --> 1:31:42.639 I'm quite a I have quite a vivisited in a space, 1:31:42.680 --> 1:31:44.600 as I mentioned before, and so I tend to be 1:31:44.720 --> 1:31:48.000 quite careful about who I who I share that with. UM, 1:31:48.040 --> 1:31:51.240 But I love interacting with people at large. And and 1:31:51.439 --> 1:31:53.760 one thing that's a feature of my particular shows that 1:31:53.800 --> 1:31:56.120 I've I've noticed that it seems to be a little 1:31:56.200 --> 1:31:59.080 unique is after the gig, I'll get like a queue 1:31:59.080 --> 1:32:01.200 of people two hundred on and it's like three hours 1:32:01.200 --> 1:32:03.720 of question and answers about like how do you think 1:32:03.720 --> 1:32:06.120 about this, Jacob, or how would you approach this? Can 1:32:06.120 --> 1:32:07.920 you give me some advice about? You know? And I 1:32:08.240 --> 1:32:10.439 actually I just love that. I mean, that's so cool. 1:32:10.840 --> 1:32:12.920 And I mean I did it every single one of 1:32:12.920 --> 1:32:14.920 my one man shows. I did like a second show 1:32:14.960 --> 1:32:17.040 after every show, which is just talking to people. That 1:32:17.120 --> 1:32:18.559 was a bit draining after a while, so I kind 1:32:18.560 --> 1:32:21.080 of stopped for this last year. But um, I love it. 1:32:21.120 --> 1:32:23.519 I love connecting with people. I think it's there's something magic. 1:32:23.920 --> 1:32:27.639 But this is a world that I'm familiar with. These people, 1:32:27.720 --> 1:32:30.320 you mean something into their in their life. They will 1:32:30.360 --> 1:32:33.920 then say, come to my house, let me make you dinner, 1:32:34.520 --> 1:32:37.720 stay at my house. It's all that off limits or 1:32:37.760 --> 1:32:40.160 if you, you know, dip your toe in some of that. 1:32:41.120 --> 1:32:43.560 I wouldn't say anything is off limits, per se. I 1:32:43.920 --> 1:32:46.479 have a pretty good compass about who's genuine and who's 1:32:46.479 --> 1:32:49.120 cool and who's not um And obviously, you know, you 1:32:49.200 --> 1:32:51.920 learn that, you learn from experience, but you know, yeah, 1:32:51.960 --> 1:32:53.960 every every so often you'll think, like, wow, this is 1:32:53.960 --> 1:32:56.519 a fascinating group of people or a fascinating person, and 1:32:57.000 --> 1:32:59.120 I'll go and spend time with you. But but honestly, like, 1:32:59.160 --> 1:33:01.559 the road moves so far, and I know that the 1:33:01.560 --> 1:33:03.599 amount that I have to give every night on stage 1:33:04.240 --> 1:33:07.120 means I can't afford to spend too much amante on 1:33:07.720 --> 1:33:10.800 other people and things outside of that. So I tend 1:33:10.800 --> 1:33:12.519 to keep myself to myself on the road, to be 1:33:12.560 --> 1:33:15.600 honest with you, But obviously there's always a sense of 1:33:15.640 --> 1:33:18.080 adventure and that there's there's a joy in kind of 1:33:18.280 --> 1:33:21.479 being open to that Okay, now you have a long 1:33:21.680 --> 1:33:27.000 history playing music. Did people always say you were gifted 1:33:27.880 --> 1:33:31.360 and you believe you have some special skill or do 1:33:31.479 --> 1:33:34.640 you believe it's the old ten thousand hour rule and 1:33:34.640 --> 1:33:36.640 you've put so much time into it that you have 1:33:36.680 --> 1:33:40.840 a facility that you can then expand upon good question. 1:33:41.400 --> 1:33:44.080 I don't think anything is black and white like that. 1:33:44.800 --> 1:33:46.960 It's it's it's probably a mixture, you know. I know 1:33:47.160 --> 1:33:50.840 for a fact that people in my family have been musicians, 1:33:50.880 --> 1:33:52.760 and very good ones at that, and so I guess 1:33:52.760 --> 1:33:55.600 it would make sense that I have a particular predisposition 1:33:55.640 --> 1:33:57.760 to it. I've done at least ten thou hours, so 1:33:57.760 --> 1:34:00.640 I'm sure that's part of it too. I think that 1:34:00.720 --> 1:34:04.439 there's something there's a way that the ancient Greeks tend 1:34:04.520 --> 1:34:07.080 to talk about the word genius, which I like, which 1:34:07.120 --> 1:34:08.840 is that a genius is not something that you are 1:34:08.960 --> 1:34:11.160 so much as something that you have so you can 1:34:11.200 --> 1:34:13.439 have a genius. It's like, oh, I'm having a genius. 1:34:13.680 --> 1:34:15.800 I'm having a genius idea. I'm having I'm having a 1:34:15.840 --> 1:34:19.439 moment of ultra connection, you know, of transcendence. I know 1:34:19.520 --> 1:34:23.200 that feeling. I have had those in my time. I've 1:34:23.240 --> 1:34:25.160 had to learn how to court them, how to deal 1:34:25.160 --> 1:34:27.000 with them, how to manage them, how to separate myself 1:34:27.000 --> 1:34:29.439 from them to a certain extent, I think, I think 1:34:29.479 --> 1:34:31.559 everyone has the capacity to do that. But it's a 1:34:31.560 --> 1:34:37.200 particular combination of of circumstance, of of of luck, of 1:34:37.200 --> 1:34:41.320 sort of courage, I think, and willingness to to be yourself, 1:34:41.400 --> 1:34:43.600 and also willingness to listen and conform to others to 1:34:43.640 --> 1:34:46.240 a point to And I think that everyone strikes a 1:34:46.240 --> 1:34:48.639 different balance with that. You know, I'm I'm pretty good 1:34:48.640 --> 1:34:50.880 at being Jacob. I think I'd say that I'm pretty 1:34:50.880 --> 1:34:53.720 good at being myself. I'm pretty good at knowing my 1:34:53.800 --> 1:34:55.840 forces and understanding them and how to work with them. 1:34:55.880 --> 1:34:58.120 And I think I'm I'm good at drawing lines to 1:34:58.120 --> 1:35:01.320 a point creatively about how to organized, and I'm good 1:35:01.320 --> 1:35:03.600 at I think I'm quite good at having ideas. And 1:35:03.640 --> 1:35:06.720 so I think that actually that is what's maybe productive 1:35:06.800 --> 1:35:09.040 in a sense more than God, I'm a such a 1:35:09.040 --> 1:35:11.040 good piano player, or because I'm not that good at piano, 1:35:11.080 --> 1:35:13.120 but I'm not that good at any of the one 1:35:13.160 --> 1:35:15.320 off skills that you might say, Oh, Jacob is a 1:35:15.320 --> 1:35:17.240 great singer or bass player or drama. I don't. I 1:35:17.240 --> 1:35:19.120 don't think of myself as spectacular any of those things. 1:35:19.160 --> 1:35:21.920 But I think what an artist does is an artist 1:35:21.960 --> 1:35:25.240 combines forces in a way that is unique to that artist, 1:35:25.240 --> 1:35:28.000 because no idea is ever truly fully unique, right obviously, 1:35:28.439 --> 1:35:31.439 but the way that ideas can be combined can be 1:35:31.520 --> 1:35:35.240 just beautiful and so meaningful, and there's infinite potential for 1:35:35.280 --> 1:35:37.320 those idists to be combined. So I think for me, 1:35:37.360 --> 1:35:39.479 I almost think about my skills in that way, like 1:35:39.520 --> 1:35:41.800 I'm not a master at any of these skills. So 1:35:41.880 --> 1:35:43.599 the thing that I've tried to master and I think 1:35:43.640 --> 1:35:46.360 i'm I think I'm pretty good at it is is 1:35:46.760 --> 1:35:49.320 who's Jacob today? How can I use that in an 1:35:49.320 --> 1:35:52.040 open way? How can I bring people together using the 1:35:52.080 --> 1:35:54.479 forces that are in my world in my life? And 1:35:54.520 --> 1:35:56.519 how can I learn and dig deep into something that 1:35:56.560 --> 1:35:58.920 I love in this case music and just understand it. 1:35:59.000 --> 1:36:02.040 So I would I would sort of put as a 1:36:02.080 --> 1:36:04.720 testament to what I can do. I would say it's 1:36:04.720 --> 1:36:08.439 a combination of things. I would say, um, you know, yeah, 1:36:08.439 --> 1:36:10.240 perhaps I have some kind of genetic thing that means 1:36:10.280 --> 1:36:11.840 that means I was going to be drawn towards music, 1:36:11.880 --> 1:36:15.200 But I've had a patient and love giving family who 1:36:15.200 --> 1:36:17.040 have always made space for me to be who I 1:36:17.040 --> 1:36:18.519 needed to be. That's probably the number one thing I 1:36:18.520 --> 1:36:21.160 would say. I've always had a space to play. Children 1:36:21.160 --> 1:36:22.920 tend to make as many ideas as there are ears 1:36:22.920 --> 1:36:24.800 to hear them, I think, and I was always always 1:36:24.840 --> 1:36:26.800 pased to hear my ideas, So that was a big one. 1:36:27.160 --> 1:36:29.200 I would say. I had and I had enough resources 1:36:29.240 --> 1:36:31.759 to get started. I had a microphone, had a piano, 1:36:32.080 --> 1:36:34.880 had had a logic, I had tools to work with 1:36:35.400 --> 1:36:39.920 um And I would say that I've although I wouldn't. 1:36:40.160 --> 1:36:42.439 I don't think of myself as particularly hard working in 1:36:42.720 --> 1:36:44.519 a funny way, because I don't feel like I've ever 1:36:44.520 --> 1:36:47.160 slaved away at something for longer than I've been interested 1:36:47.160 --> 1:36:49.800 at it. But I've worked so super hard if I 1:36:49.880 --> 1:36:52.479 if I'm honest with what I want to say and 1:36:52.520 --> 1:36:54.400 how I want to say it, and like just equipping 1:36:54.439 --> 1:36:56.400 myself to do so. So I think that the mixture 1:36:56.400 --> 1:37:00.479 of time and luck, and resources and and and skill, 1:37:00.560 --> 1:37:02.600 and I think above all a sense of openness and 1:37:02.640 --> 1:37:06.599 a sense of determination to be Jacob in all situations. Okay, 1:37:07.080 --> 1:37:11.520 so needles to say Jesse four is the next one, Hey, 1:37:11.920 --> 1:37:14.919 what comes after that? Be? Do you have no idea? 1:37:15.439 --> 1:37:17.760 See do you just go along this path or you 1:37:17.800 --> 1:37:20.720 say there's a whole another avenue. I want to explore 1:37:22.000 --> 1:37:26.840 b to to to the largest extent. I don't know 1:37:26.880 --> 1:37:30.280 what's coming, man, I'm not sure. I set out to 1:37:30.320 --> 1:37:33.960 do Jesse almost with with the thought in mind of like, 1:37:34.360 --> 1:37:36.639 if I can do Jesse, then I can do anything. 1:37:37.479 --> 1:37:40.200 And so after Jesse, I can I can really get started, 1:37:40.320 --> 1:37:42.080 Like I can really decide what I what I want 1:37:42.080 --> 1:37:44.679 to do, because I want to. I want to figure 1:37:44.680 --> 1:37:45.920 out what it means to write for an orchestra. I 1:37:45.960 --> 1:37:47.559 want to figure out what it means to collaborate with 1:37:47.600 --> 1:37:49.120 a rapper. I want to figure out what it means 1:37:49.120 --> 1:37:51.880 to work with a banjo player, or what I want 1:37:51.880 --> 1:37:53.400 to I want to write for choirs. I want to 1:37:53.439 --> 1:37:56.160 stretch myself all this stuff. So I did that thinking 1:37:56.600 --> 1:37:57.920 I don't know what I'm going to want to do, 1:37:58.000 --> 1:37:59.439 but I'm going to make sure I have all the 1:37:59.439 --> 1:38:01.720 skills and I'm equipted as far as I can to 1:38:01.880 --> 1:38:04.160 do whatever I want to do after this, And I 1:38:04.200 --> 1:38:06.160 don't know what that is yet. I mean, I think 1:38:06.160 --> 1:38:08.360 there's there's so many avenues that I've been exploring a 1:38:08.360 --> 1:38:09.600 bit in the last couple of years. You know. One 1:38:09.600 --> 1:38:11.479 of those is scoring for film, for example, which I've 1:38:11.520 --> 1:38:13.680 I've been drawn drawn towards, and I'm doing some of that, 1:38:13.720 --> 1:38:16.479 and that's exciting to me. UM. I think that I've 1:38:16.520 --> 1:38:19.920 barely scratched the surface of what's possible, UM in my 1:38:20.040 --> 1:38:23.719 in my creative life. I just it's it's it seems 1:38:23.760 --> 1:38:25.920 infinite for me, and I think I want that to 1:38:25.960 --> 1:38:30.160 continue to a point even tho affinity you can be healthy. UM. 1:38:30.200 --> 1:38:32.240 I think I've barely scratched the surface of what's possible 1:38:32.280 --> 1:38:35.840 in the live performance realm. And I think that for 1:38:35.880 --> 1:38:37.880 someone with the skills that I hold, I think I've 1:38:37.880 --> 1:38:43.280 barely scratched the surface of how connective, UM, the things 1:38:43.520 --> 1:38:46.880 I'm doing, the music I'm making, the experiences I'm building 1:38:46.880 --> 1:38:49.120 for people can be bringing people together. So I want 1:38:49.120 --> 1:38:51.880 to I want to be led by whatever I'm led by. 1:38:51.880 --> 1:38:55.840 I have those priorities pretty solid and and I'm I'm 1:38:55.880 --> 1:38:59.120 wide open. I don't have a clue, honestly, but I'm 1:38:59.160 --> 1:39:02.599 excited to find out. Well, you've done an excellent job 1:39:03.080 --> 1:39:05.880 of describing who you are, where you came from where 1:39:05.880 --> 1:39:09.120 you're going, and I think this will be very enlightening 1:39:09.240 --> 1:39:13.040 for those who are unfamiliar with you previously. So Jacob, 1:39:13.080 --> 1:39:14.880 I want to thank you so much for your time 1:39:14.880 --> 1:39:16.960 and for doing this. Thank you both. Thank you so 1:39:17.000 --> 1:39:18.160 much for having me. This has been something I've been 1:39:18.160 --> 1:39:20.760 looking forward to for ages actually, and it's super super 1:39:20.840 --> 1:39:22.519 nice tab a chance to talk to you about this. 1:39:23.439 --> 1:39:26.120 Until next time. This is Bob left Sense