1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: Welcome, welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left That Podcast. 2 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: My guest today is Jacob Collume. Yes, the man who 3 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: was nominated for Album of the Year. Jesse Volume three 4 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: is the name of the record. Jacob. Good to have 5 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: you here, Bob. It's such a pleasure to see you, sir. Okay, 6 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: now we must say, most people or many people are 7 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: unfamiliar with your music, so I must ask, can you 8 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 1: please describe it? I know me your music is didn't 9 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: describe it for but can you please describe it for 10 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: the audience? Well, I will try my best. Um. I 11 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: suppose I think of my music as joyous music in 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: a sense. It's a mixture of all sorts of different 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: musical styles, musical spaces. I've loved music as a whole language, 14 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: and so there's orchestral less in it, and there's rock 15 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: and roll, and there's some jazz in terms of the 16 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: harmonic language, and there's some electronic production too, and there's 17 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: lots of acappelle. So I tend to think and work 18 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: in layers a lot of the time, and so I 19 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: tend to play a lot of instruments myself on on 20 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: my albums and also my life performances. I'm I'm talking 21 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:10,919 Speaker 1: to you now from a room filled with many different 22 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: things that make different kinds of sound, and I've loved 23 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: the process of learing those on top of each other, 24 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 1: for I guess the duration of my life, and so 25 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: I guess my music is an expression of all the 26 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,559 Speaker 1: things I love, and that's a whole mixture different things. 27 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: But it's a sort of tentabulum of of eclectic ingredients. 28 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: I suppose that is a mortgage board of descriptions. What 29 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: track should someone start with if they want to know 30 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: Jacob car your Oh, that's a different question. Um, I 31 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: would say start with All I Need. And All I 32 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: Need is a song on Jesse Volian three, the album 33 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: that you mentioned, which is the third part of a 34 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: four part album series that I've been creating from this chair. 35 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: And All I Need is is. Yeah, it's a it's 36 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: um a testament to a few things I love. I 37 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: guess there's there's some harmony in there, and there's some 38 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: there's some dance nus in there, and it's a collaboration 39 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: with with Mehalia and ty Dolla Sign and I love 40 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: both those musicians so much. Okay, let's go back to 41 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: the beginning. So you were born in you were raised 42 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: essentially by your mother? True? Absolutely, true? Is your father 43 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: in the picture at all? My father has not been 44 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: in the picture for about fifteen years or so. So 45 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: I was very much brought up by by women. I suppose. 46 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: I've got two little sisters who brought me up to 47 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: So it was me and my sisters and and my 48 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: mom in this exact house actually here in in in 49 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 1: North London. Okay. But your mother was in the music field. 50 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: What the did and does she do? She is a 51 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: violinist in the in the classical world and outside. And 52 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: also she's a conductor as so some of my earliest 53 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: memories of music making a music consumption, we're sitting in 54 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: a big hall called called the Duke's Hall in the 55 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: Royal Academy Music in London and watching her conductor room. 56 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: And so a lot of my kind of education started there. Okay, 57 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: your two sisters are younger than you are, yes, sir, absolutely, okay. 58 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: Their ages are let's see, I'm twenty x and then 59 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: twenty four and twenty okay. And are they in the 60 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: music field. They both play and they both sing, but 61 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,839 Speaker 1: they're not professionally musicians. They do other things. But when 62 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: whenever we're home together as a four, we make a rule, 63 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: and the rule is we always sing in four part harmony. 64 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: We sing a part korral, or we'll sing a barbershop 65 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: quartet or something like that, just because it's a nice 66 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: way to to spend time. That's very interesting. Okay, So 67 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: from the moment you have memories, was their music in 68 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: your household totally? Absolutely every corner of every room, either 69 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: something was playing or something was being spoken about that 70 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: was playing. And so I remember Stevie, I remember Sting, 71 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: I remember Bobby McFerrin, remember birth when and fire Um, 72 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: and then I remember discovering Flying Lotus. That was a 73 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: big moment for me when I was about thirteen years 74 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: old or so. And then that unlocked j Diller, and 75 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: that unlocked d' angelo and then the whole the whole 76 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: thing kind of opened up. But I was also very 77 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: much brought up on Martok and Stravinsky, and I sang 78 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: in some operas composed by Benjamin Britten as a boy. 79 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: I say, an opera called The Turn of the Screw. 80 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: There's a boy in that. In that Chimbrop recored Miles 81 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: and so my musical education was this massive mixture of 82 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: on the one hand, like dancing to a to a 83 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: group like a Prince group, for example, and on the 84 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: other hand, standing on stage in Auviedo, Spain and singing 85 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: the harmony of Benjamin Britain, which is completely an early 86 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 1: you know, twelve turns structures and dissonant things and a 87 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: really sensitive emotional language that he had going on, and 88 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: a real Britishness too, And I saw no reason to 89 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: kind of reject any of it. It was all part 90 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: of my part, part of my language. I suppose, you know, 91 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: casual observation would say that most people in the classical 92 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: musical field sneering pop music. So your mother was interested 93 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: in playing pop music in the house, I guess you 94 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: could say, so, yeah. And I wouldn't say that she 95 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: would have thought of it as pop music. I don't 96 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: think she would have said, well, you know, his classic 97 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: of music, and then and then this is pop, and 98 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: then over here this jazz and this is folk, I 99 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: think in her eyes, and therefore in my eyes it 100 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: was more this is music I love. And there's actually 101 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: a lot that class music has in common with with 102 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 1: you know, you could say pop music when you when 103 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: you stop and think about it. But I think I 104 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: really welcomed that approach, and I'm very grateful for it 105 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: because I think it it stopped me as a creative 106 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: person thinking too much about sort of boxes and boundaries 107 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: and this is appropriate for this, and this is appropriate 108 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: for this and more a sense that there was this 109 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: massive language that people were learning and discovering within each other, 110 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: within the kind of musicians community of the world. And 111 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: a lot of my favorite things that I heard, especially 112 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: when I was young, were people who were sort of 113 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: taking risks of it and and trying things out and 114 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: twisting rules that that maybe had existed. Can you give 115 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: us a couple of examples of that, I can, so 116 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: excuse me. One one construct that I've been made aware 117 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,679 Speaker 1: of recently is that you have twelve twelve half steps 118 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: in an octave, or in UK was a twelve semi 119 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: tones and an octave um. And I've heard a couple 120 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: of pieces of music that really blew my mind with 121 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: people who were thinking outside of that um in the 122 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: sense that you know from from bar to bar. Traditionally 123 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: you would divide that into the twelve semi tones that 124 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: we see on the piano um. But I became very 125 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: interested in just intonation systems, by which I mean, um, 126 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: tuning to to physics, but essentially the laws of physics, 127 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: rather than tuning too and to the more traditional idea 128 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: of harmony. And so you know, I heard composers like, 129 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: for example, Leghetti exploring this, and I heard that, and 130 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: I thought, that's that's interesting to me because I think 131 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: it could apply to things beyond what it what it 132 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: currently represents. I think that that is tool that could 133 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: be used in all sorts of other situations. And so 134 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: I've I've sought out things that get my ears excited 135 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 1: or tie my brain and or not, and I've I've 136 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: been interested. I supposed to find ways of building bridges 137 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: between these different musical worlds and find a way to 138 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: get all these ingredients to kind of make some kind 139 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: of sense. Okay though, but wouldn't we also say that 140 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: the average listener has problems with scales and other types 141 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: of music outside that traditional twelve towns. Um. I think 142 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: you're right. I think I'd say that people who um, 143 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: people who listen to a lot of a particular kind 144 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: of music get used to it. And so that, to 145 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: me is is interesting. And so, for example, if you 146 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: if you listen to the radio, then you hear a 147 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: lot of a particular kind of thing, And to be honest, 148 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: I'm always so interested to do that. I turned on 149 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: the radis and I think, Oh, what's the thing that's 150 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: kind of filling people's imaginations at this time, and what 151 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: is people's idea of acceptable? And for example, if you 152 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: grow up in say Africa, and your music is entirely 153 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: based in pentatonic structures, which is sort of far simpler 154 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: than then I guess what what Europeans have have creative, 155 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: which is is almost like a sort of a chromatic 156 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: system of harmony within classical music. Then all of that 157 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: chromatic stuff sounds totally bizarre, and at first people were like, oh, 158 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: that's strange. I'm not sure I understand that. And then gradually, 159 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: as those kinds of rules seep into what feels normal 160 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: to people, then people kind of embrace those elements, I think, 161 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: And so you know, I would definitely say that there 162 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: are things that I hear that take my breath away 163 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: and that surprised me, that are pretty abnormal and pretty weird, 164 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: and those things always kind of intrigue me to to 165 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: dig a bit deeper, because I feel like, in some 166 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: ways the thing that needs to bend in that experience 167 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: is not necessarily the thing I'm listening to you, but 168 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: it's more me as a listener. How can I bend 169 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: myself into a shape that where that makes some kind 170 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: of sense. Okay, so you're listening to music in the house. 171 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: At what point do you pick up an instrument? Oh? Um? 172 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: I suppose I was about two or three when I 173 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 1: was handed a violin and that made sense to my 174 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: mom as a violinist. It was like, we'll try this 175 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: one out for size. And I remember I played for 176 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: a couple of years and I gave up when I 177 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 1: was four because I was quite an impatient musician, I think, 178 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: and I wanted to be able to hit something and 179 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: for it to make a sound that was satisfying. And 180 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: the thing what the violin is that you kind of 181 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: need to play for five years until it doesn't sound 182 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: like that. And so I gravitated more towards the piano 183 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: because it was kind of like a layout that I 184 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: could digs like. Okay, so they kind of makes some 185 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 1: kind of sense. And I can clearly remember being asked 186 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: as clearly of musically interested eight year old you know, 187 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: would piano lessons be something that you'd like, And I 188 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: can clearly remember saying, no, I don't want that. I 189 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: want to kind of do this in my own way. 190 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: And luckily for me, my mom's philosophy has always been 191 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: too kind of allow that space to happen, and so 192 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: I was kind of allowed to be just a free 193 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: a free spirit in this space, in this music room 194 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: and just sort of go wherever my fancy took me 195 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: from from from one day to the next. Was your 196 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: mother disappointed that you gave up the violin, not in 197 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: the slightest, No, I think I think she was excited 198 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: that it was a part of my journey in some way. 199 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: You know, it was like, well, okay, cool, so the 200 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: violin was that, and now let's go onto something else 201 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: and whatever. But my mom is very specially in the 202 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: sense that she's never sort of imposed a sense of 203 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: this is how I'd like you to be, or unless 204 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: you're the way that I want you to be, then 205 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 1: you're going to let me down. You know. It's always 206 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: been like your job as a human is to find 207 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: out what you are, and here are some materials that 208 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: may help you figure that out. But but other than 209 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: that it's it's kind of up to you, and I'm 210 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: always sort of speaking as her now. I'm always open 211 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: to any kind of dialogue and I'll always be be interested, 212 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: I guess. Okay, So you start playing at the piano 213 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: for years old, totally self taught. Yes, yeah, I was 214 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: just exploring on my own, okay, And certainly it's not 215 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: like being bad. I'm a violin, but there's a certain 216 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: skill to making listenable music on the keys. How did 217 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,719 Speaker 1: you figure it out? Um, it's a good question. I'm 218 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: still figuring out. I think I started with things that 219 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: I knew, um, and I went from there. You know, 220 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: I think there's there was a bit of a myth 221 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: that I saw in in the musical education world that 222 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: what I experienced of it, you know, at school and 223 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: things like that, where it was kind of like, you know, 224 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: you're you're a beginner, and there's this huge, great, big 225 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: mountain need to climb. At the top of the mountain, 226 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: you know you will be good enough, but you have 227 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: to start in this uncomfortable place and sort of work 228 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: and work at the the uncomfortable place until you feel comfortable, 229 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: which for me is I can see how it happened, 230 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: but it's a little inefficient. You know. There are sounds 231 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: that I kind of understood as a as a musician, 232 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: as a boy um that I would work out on 233 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: the piano. You know, I'd hear I'd hear a song. 234 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: I'd say, I'd hear a Stevie song, and I think, so, 235 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 1: what's going on there? It sounds like there's there's this chord. 236 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: And then I would just take that chord and I said, 237 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,079 Speaker 1: what does this chord do? And I didn't really understand it, 238 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: but I followed my ears. It would be like, well, 239 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: what's this card like if I try and move it 240 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: up one semiter or down, or if I if this 241 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: chord leads to this chord, and and then what does 242 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: what is adding this particularly what make that chord want 243 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: to do? You know? And this this was a kind 244 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: of intuitive process that I went through that that was 245 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,839 Speaker 1: very little about what was right and wrong, you know. 246 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: It was very little about like, well, these this is 247 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,959 Speaker 1: how it's done, and it was more what what is 248 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: exciting to do? And so, yeah, I I iterated that process. 249 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: I suppose, yeah, I iterated that process at the piano 250 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: um and I can clearly remember being very thrilled, indeed 251 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: on my fourteenth birthday to get this double bass. And 252 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: it was a funny thing because I had not a 253 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: clue how to play it, but I could. I could 254 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:01,959 Speaker 1: play the bass in my head. I could go good, 255 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: you know, because I knew basselines and I could sing them, 256 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: but I couldn't play them. And so I think for me, 257 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: I kind of assumed that there there must be a 258 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: way to extract the basselines from the base, and I 259 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: just sort of died. I don't dove into it with 260 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: a sense of trust. It was like, well, there must 261 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: be where I can get this to feel natural, and 262 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: and I guess it's it's a matter of patients. And 263 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: and also I think it was a matter of me 264 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 1: setting myself challenges, sometimes outrageous creative challenges, like you know, 265 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: you will find a way to figure this outward, let's 266 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: try and incorporate this element in this And by solving 267 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 1: those problems, I kind of discovered this sense of synergy 268 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: between all the different instruments that I was falling in 269 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: love with, to the voice, to the drums. And I 270 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: never thought of myself as a as an instrumentalist per se. 271 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,839 Speaker 1: I didn't think, well, I'm a I'm a piano player, 272 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: or I'm a bass player, whatever. But I always felt, 273 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: I guess I thought of myself as exploring music at 274 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: large and being a musician as much as I could, 275 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: and trying to establish what what the intention might be 276 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: with a particular sound and how the how how that 277 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: could fit into this the sensibility that I had, you know, 278 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: being all the members of my own band, how how 279 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: would it feel to be the base, How it feels 280 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: to be the drum? How do they interact with each other? 281 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: And you know, most of my learning happened by listening. 282 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: You know, I sat and listened to everything I could 283 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: possibly find, you know, And at that point, the Internet 284 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: was quite young and YouTube was being born and growing, 285 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: but it was kind of at the right moment where 286 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: if I was interested in, you know, who played base 287 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: on a Keith Jarrett record, then I could find out 288 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,599 Speaker 1: and then I could figure out what that person's story was, 289 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: and I could listen to on other records, and and 290 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: and so a lot of that kind of process of 291 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 1: filling up my periphery with things that I trusted just 292 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: happened through consuming as much music, you know, as much 293 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: music as I could from home, things that were in 294 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: the house, two things that were online, and to things 295 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: recommended by friends and all that stuff. Okay, do you 296 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: read music relatively poorly? But I do read it like 297 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: I can sing. If you have me a part to sing, 298 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: I can sing it. But honestly, I find myself a 299 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: little at a loss if you if you put, say, 300 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: for example, a human piano sonata in front of me, 301 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: I would have a very hard time playing I could honestly, 302 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: I could probably hear it in my head more easily 303 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: than I could play it with my hands, because I haven't. 304 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: I never really opened up those channels of reading and 305 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: playing because it just kind of wasn't the way that 306 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: I learned. So, but how did you learn to the 307 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: rudimentary level you have the skill? I think it was 308 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: it was a mixture of things. But my mom would 309 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: would sit down and show me things, and it'd be like, 310 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: this is how you write this, or you know, with 311 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: a with a school assignment. And I remember being asked 312 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: to harmonize a bark corral part when I was in school. 313 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: This is like one of the activities that you do 314 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: as a music student. And I was so I was 315 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: so kind of I mean, I was interested to a point, 316 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: but also I was quite impatient, and it was like yeah, 317 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: bark alright, cool, yeah, but can we like can we 318 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: just do something that makes us dance? Like can we 319 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: can we have drums to this? Or like can we 320 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: have basis? That's why I would do this at my 321 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: own time, but at school they were these kind of 322 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: established rules. So I bring them home and I would 323 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: work it out, and you know, I learned. I learned 324 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: how to read music a little bit enough to say, Okay, 325 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: that's an airport, that's an a natural or whatever. But um, 326 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: I think what I found exciting was sort of extrapped 327 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: sing parts of that that I did like, and then 328 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: just sort of assimilating them a bit like osmosis, and 329 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: then and then just playing with them, like messing around 330 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: and seeing how far I could stretch these things in 331 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: the creative space. Uh, and how much I could I 332 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: could learn from that? Okay, you talk about music school. 333 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: Traditionally one goes to school at age five or six. 334 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: Did you go to a regular school and then transfer 335 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: was a musical school From day one. I was in 336 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: a very regular schooling environment until I was I think 337 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: about sixteen years old. I went to like a box 338 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: standard primary school quite in my house. And I went 339 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: to a box standard secondary school filled with every different 340 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: kind of person you can imagine, which was actually, I 341 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: think brilliant. I really enjoyed it. A sense of normalcy, 342 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: I suppose. And then okay, but well, let's slow down 343 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: there for a second. Good student, bad student? In general, 344 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: I was a pretty good student, and I had the 345 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: kind of mind that if I was interested in something, 346 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: I would just go as deep as you could possibly 347 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: go in a flash. And I was fast and I 348 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: could pick things up quickly. Um. And if I wasn't interested, 349 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: and I just wouldn't engage very much, you know. So 350 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: I guess I had this sense of either falling in 351 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: love with the concept or kind of disregarding it a 352 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: little bit. But I was attentive, and I was interested 353 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: in education in general, and I liked to bend whatever 354 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: rules I could find, but never in a particularly disrespectful way. Okay, 355 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: and were you a popular kid, were you a loner? 356 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: What kind of kid were you? I suppose I was 357 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: somewhere between the two. I wouldn't I wouldn't say I 358 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: was embraced by the by the popular kids as such, 359 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: I'm sure I don't speak alone there. I think a 360 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 1: lot of people and musicians I've spoken to too, has 361 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: had trouble fitting in in that kind of a way. 362 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: And I think I had such a vivid in a 363 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: world and that was kind of like my priority in 364 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: some ways, and I would spend a lot of time 365 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: kind of designing things in my mind and building things 366 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: and thinking about language and words. I would make little 367 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: diagrams and I would draw a little pictures and things 368 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: like that. But I think in a certain kind of 369 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: way I was I was fairly content to not be 370 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: fully understood, and I kind of got got used to 371 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: the thing of, you know what, Jacobs off doing his 372 00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: own thing and he's in his own world. But but 373 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: that's okay. And I think at home, my environment was 374 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,239 Speaker 1: very conducive with that, you know, and obviously that there 375 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: is always a bit of dissonance when you've been given 376 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 1: a lot of freedom in your own space and time 377 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: and then step into an institution where the expectations you 378 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: will absolutely conform. You know, you will do it the 379 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: way that we want you to do it, and if 380 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: you don't do it like that, then you know you're 381 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: you're not going to make the cart you know, you 382 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 1: won't get the grades. And and so there was this 383 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: this funny dance that I kind of began to do, 384 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: which honestly, I think that was quite good training for 385 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: for the music industry in a certain respect and building 386 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 1: a career, um because I think there's there's a certain 387 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: amount of of kind of listening that you need to 388 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: do when you're learning something, learning how something is done, 389 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: and and a certain amount of I suppose I could say, 390 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: conforming to what that means and what's right and wrong. 391 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: And then there's also a certain amount of of adventuring 392 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: and kind of willingness to to to be to be 393 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: wrong or willingness to be unaccepted, which is which is 394 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: thrilling as a child, and I think crucial as a musician. Um. 395 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: And so I think that I try to strike a 396 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 1: balance at school between the kind of yeah, I can 397 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,239 Speaker 1: talk to the popular kids and also like, I'm very 398 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: comfortable to be on my own, and I think I was. 399 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: I would I would say I was. I was more 400 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: towards the kind of loaner side, if there's a spectrum 401 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: of that, I was. I was more the person who 402 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: was on his own or had a few key friends 403 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: of few key people. Um, and I think when I 404 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: left school, and I really when I left education in general, 405 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 1: that was the first time where I could really kind 406 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: of ride the right this this ship that I was building, 407 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: this cathedral or whatever you want to call it, that 408 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: I was making musically, and that kind of unlocked a 409 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 1: lot of my energy and a lot of my kind 410 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: of social confidence. I would say too, because it was 411 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: like I could speak my own language. I didn't have 412 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: to access people by trying to speak theres so much. 413 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 1: And so that the time I spent with my own 414 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: space and in my own time and started to tour, 415 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: started to travel meeting incredible inspiring people and started to 416 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,959 Speaker 1: collaborate to like that whole process for me was almost 417 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: like my my mind was given permission to just kind 418 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: of be itself. And that was a major relief to me. Okay, 419 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: so when you're going to school before musicals school, the 420 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: music school, excuse me, before you come home from school 421 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: you immediately get into music or did you have a 422 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: life with sports and television and friends came over? Um, well, 423 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: I guess it was a mixture, Like like every child, 424 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: I had a few different things, you know, there was 425 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: a while where I loved playing video games, and there 426 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: was a while where I was super super into football 427 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: or as USA soccer um. And I guess my favorite 428 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: thing would be when interests converged, you know. So I 429 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: remember I started a band in school and it was 430 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: called the Improvisation Group, and you'd come in and you 431 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 1: would improvise, and it was really cool when it was 432 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 1: something I look forward to every weekend and I would 433 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: bring those guys over and we jam in this room 434 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: and we'd hang out and we'd you know, at that time, 435 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: I was experimenting with with recording, and when I was 436 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: seven years old, I got cubas and four years later 437 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: I was given logic for my eleventh birthday, and man, 438 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: that was exciting, and that really dominated my imagination and 439 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: a lot of my after school time between the ages 440 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: of about eleven to sixteen. I was obviously beyond that, 441 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: but you know, it was such a such a canvas, 442 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: such a wicked canvas. It was like, okay, so you know, 443 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 1: I go to school, That's fine, I'll do the stuff, 444 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: jump through the hoops in in whatever way it makes sense. Um. 445 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 1: But then I would listen to this music and I 446 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: would try and put the things together on my own 447 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: and and I guess I almost saw myself as as 448 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: much a producer as a musician. I didn't think about 449 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: the difference between tho two things at that point. I 450 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: didn't realize there really was one. It was like, well, 451 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: I'm musick ing, you know, I'm creating music, and I'm 452 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: doing it in the way that makes sense with the 453 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: materials I had around me. And I didn't have a 454 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: great deal honestly. I had a one SM fifty eight microphone, 455 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: and I had logic, and I have a little to 456 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: input audio interface and and a computer and that was 457 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 1: it basically until I was about nineteen, and so I 458 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 1: wanted to find a way to to bring things to 459 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: life that I was hearing in my mind. I wanted 460 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 1: to play, and so what that kind of home studio 461 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: canvas gave me was an opportunity to do just that. Okay, 462 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: the improv group was in primary school, high school or 463 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: was that once you were in music school? That that 464 00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: is I suppose you would say middle school, but we 465 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: would say like ninth grades of year nine, year ten s. Okay, 466 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,199 Speaker 1: but you do have this public life where you're in 467 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 1: the opera and there are a couple of other things. 468 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: How does that happen? And what is that like? It 469 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: was really interesting, honestly, because I would go to these 470 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: auditions for things. And I guess it all started because 471 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: I sang in a in a local choir when I 472 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: was about eight years old. I sang um in a choir, 473 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: which I loved. I just loved the feeling. It was like, man, 474 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: this feels at home, surrounded by voices, you know, gorgeous 475 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: harmonies like this is great. It's like a bit of 476 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 1: a social it's it was cool. And so I think 477 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: that in those kinds of camps, especially at that age, 478 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: there there are people on the lookout for people who 479 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: maybe like have have a special something that would apply 480 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: to film and musicals and operas and things like that. 481 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,239 Speaker 1: And so there are a few different things that I 482 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 1: was I was asked to do. And one thing I 483 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 1: did I played the roll of tiny team in a 484 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: in a musical film production of Christmas Carol with Kelsey Grammer. 485 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: And it was super fun and I lived in Budapest 486 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: for six months or so and it was great fun. 487 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: I had had a crutch and I got to play 488 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: the part. And I missed about a year of school 489 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: and had a two term and that that was interesting. 490 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,640 Speaker 1: And what was What was I guess interesting looking back 491 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: now is that it's sort of normalized the idea to 492 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: me that I had this other world that was almost 493 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: like my world that was different from the world that 494 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: I was in when I was at school, and I 495 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: was interesting with the others, and and that kind of duality. 496 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: I mean, now now I think about it, that duality, 497 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: I guess became quite important to me. But I never 498 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: really felt like I really fitted into that world either, 499 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: to be completely honest with you, like I I wasn't 500 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: a theater kid, I wasn't a film kid. I found 501 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: a lot of the kind of mentalities of that very 502 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: very jarring. Indeed, you know, like, Wow, we're going to 503 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: make you a star, and oh, you're gonna be so famous, 504 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: and know it's lots of money and all, you know, 505 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: and that stuff just wasn't That wasn't it for me. 506 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: It wasn't exciting at all. I wanted to do stuff 507 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 1: that I that I was engaged by. You were basically 508 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 1: the first generation where these tools are natural. Okay, many 509 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: people the music business they were doing analog recording. Maybe 510 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: they had a digital recorder, but moving to pro tools, 511 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 1: moving to logic was a big up and they took 512 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,479 Speaker 1: the mentality that they had from the analog imported it 513 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: to digital. Whereas this is natural, a great percentage of 514 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: this audience has never been in a recording studio, which 515 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: at this point, into a great degree is at home. 516 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 1: Can you explain a little bit to them how logic 517 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: works and what that enabled you to do? Definitely, that's 518 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: a great question. Um logic is a canvas for sounds, 519 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: and it's a two D environment where you can place 520 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 1: elements onto a canvas where one access is time and 521 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: the other access is is your list of ingredients. And 522 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: so say, for example, I have a logic session with 523 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: ten tracks in it. And when I say a track, 524 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: it's like a vertical row of sound or something that 525 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: represents sounds. So I might have one track which is 526 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: based guitar, and another track which is electric guitar, and 527 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 1: another track which is um, you know, snare, and a 528 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 1: track which is kicked, and maybe two tracks which are 529 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: my my left and right overhead mike friends for the drums, 530 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: and then maybe I'll have say five or six tracks 531 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: of vocals where ones a lead vocal track, and then 532 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,479 Speaker 1: the others there are anyones are backing vocal tracks or 533 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: other things, and I might have like a sort of 534 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,679 Speaker 1: SFX track, like a for you know, when all these 535 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: kinds of sounds or whatever whatever, you know, kind of 536 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 1: comes into my head. And so I guess in that respect, 537 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: it's quite similar to what you could say is like 538 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: an analog approach to building things up, you know, step 539 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: by step by step. But what logic does, which I 540 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: guess that doesn't do, is, first of all, it works 541 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: at great speed. Well, it works at add as fast. 542 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: It works as fast as as as you can go 543 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: as a person, pretty much always fast as your your 544 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: CPU allowed. Um. And so you know, if I imagine, 545 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: for example, right now, I think, oh, I can hear 546 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: in my mind, or if I'm working on a song, 547 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: might I think, you know what I want to I 548 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: want to hear like a gospel choir. It's like, okay, 549 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: well then I'll make it sixty tracks and I'll seeing 550 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 1: all the voices of the gospel choir. And at the 551 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: first time I tried that, it sounded horrendous, and then 552 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 1: I figured out, okay, so I need to turn the 553 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: game down a bit because it's distorting, or need to 554 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: put a compressor on it so that it doesn't feel 555 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: over the top, and I can control it. And so 556 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: with logic you can do things like put a number 557 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: of tracks inside a group of tracks, and and so 558 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: almost like make it into a folder like a a subgroup, 559 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: and then you can apply to that subgroup all sorts 560 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: of audio effects. So, for example, you can edit the 561 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: EQ of the track. And when I say EQ, I 562 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: sort of mean like a frequency graph where the high 563 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: frequencies are on the right and the low frequencies are 564 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: on the left. And so say I'm recording a vocal, 565 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: but I wanted to sound really like sparkly, you know, 566 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 1: like like an area on a grande lead, Then I 567 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 1: would crank right up the high end of that vocal 568 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: and it would sound really sparkly. Or if I wanted 569 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: it to be like have how much of low and 570 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: I would turn up the lowan And so you know, 571 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: a lot of the time, when I was a teenager, 572 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: I was touching this stuff. At the first time, I 573 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: didn't have a clue what compressed was. It never clue 574 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: what a limited was, or what knee or threshold or ratio. 575 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: All this stuff but I was messing around with them 576 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,239 Speaker 1: and just kind of tangibly finding my way through. And 577 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 1: you learn what what reverb does, and then you learn 578 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: what delay does and the differentiation between those two, and 579 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: then you learn about sending a track to a bus, 580 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: and then the bus can, say, for example, be a 581 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: set of plug ins. And and so I guess it 582 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: almost encouraged me to think in a in a musical sense, 583 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: it encouraged me to think in layers, encouraged me to 584 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: to visualize my music in this kind of as a 585 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: as these these vertical structures of sound with no limits. 586 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: And then another amazing thing about logic is that it's 587 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: got a bunch of stock sounds which are actually pretty 588 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: pretty killing. You know. So if I if I want 589 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: to hear like a timpany, if it's like did you 590 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: and I think like, oh, timpany, probably cool. You know. 591 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: I listened to pet sounds and I think, oh, slave bells, 592 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: what what let's pull, you know, pull pull the material 593 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: from my imagination. There will be a timpany. There will 594 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: be a slave in logic. That might sound a little 595 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: bit middy, but it would it will probably sound pretty realistic. 596 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: And what it gave me as a teenager, and what 597 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: it still gives me today is the opportunity to deeply 598 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: explore what's possible, completely regardless of what's normal. And so 599 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: I would be combining all sorts of unusual sounds, you know, 600 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: like banjo, but I'll put boundo through a guitar amp 601 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 1: or kick drum, but I had an infinite reverb to it, 602 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: and then I side chain that to us you know, 603 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: all these other things. And I didn't think it was 604 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: particularly odd at the time. I thought, well, this is 605 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: what I've got, and I'm going to start playing with it, 606 00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: in the same way that if you give a child 607 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: lean or a piano, they go, okay, what does this 608 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: thing do? Bing bing bing? Okay, I kind of understand 609 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 1: the materials. I'm bored or I'm not bored, you know. 610 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: And so what logic was was good for for me 611 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 1: was thinking it was it was so infinite and so 612 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 1: encouraging to me in the sense that pretty much, if 613 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 1: I imagine something in my mind and whatever, you know, 614 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: in whatever degree of resolution I was familiar with at 615 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: that point, you know how how much resolution my understanding had, 616 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: you know, how much depth it had or whatever, I 617 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: could pretty much bring it to life. You know, I 618 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: want to be in a big space, want to be 619 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: in a small space. That's reither. I want to hit 620 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: really hard on the on the stub, that's EQ. Or 621 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 1: I want to sparkle, that's eq or you know, add 622 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 1: a decoration or make it sound weird or distort it 623 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: or whatever. And these words were kind of completely unfamiliar 624 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: at first. But through playing, just playing with logic with 625 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: no expectations, no guidance, no particular assignments, it was just 626 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: a sense of learning how exciting it was to just 627 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: to create, just for the sake of purely creation. One 628 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: of the great things about these computer platforms is editing 629 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: in loops are so much easier than on analog. You 630 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: don't have to literally slice the tape and figure out 631 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: where on the tape. To what degree did you take 632 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: advantage of that process? Um a lot. I would say 633 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: looping was a particular thing that existed that I saw online. 634 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: People would do live looping gigs, you know, and it 635 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: would be like, oh, you know, play four bars on 636 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 1: the guitar and now I'm can add drums or whatever. 637 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: That always that to me always felt slightly limited. But 638 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: but I love to be able to copy and paste 639 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,880 Speaker 1: and cut. You know. It's like you think about Microsoft 640 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 1: Word and you think, Okay, I'll sketch out an idea 641 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 1: here for a paragraph and move on to the next paragraph, 642 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: and then I'll realize that I need a bit of 643 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: the first idea for the second and you go, you know, 644 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: you you cut and paste, and oh it's just brilliant. 645 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: I loved it. I loved the ease of it. Okay. Now, 646 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: first the standard was pro Tools, then Apple purchase Logic. 647 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: What is really the difference, and why would you prefer 648 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: one or the other. That's a good question. Um, Well, 649 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: pro Tools is slight. I would probably say pro Tools 650 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: is slightly more powerful if you're editing purely audio, but 651 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: Logic is powerful for most other things. So Logic is 652 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: much more customizable. For example, So one thing I love 653 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: about Logic is that you can change the keyboard shortcuts 654 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: to do whatever you want. And so I, for example, 655 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: have along the numbers all of the tools that I 656 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: use most often, so cart and fade and splice and whatever, 657 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: and I like I like being able to to to 658 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: customize that. I think that's a fantastic feature. Um. Logic 659 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: is also pretty good for MIDI. And when I say middy, 660 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: I mean you know I mentioned the timpani and the 661 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: and the sleigh bells and these instruments that aren't real 662 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: I can play those things in into logic in a 663 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: way that's I think far easier than my experience with 664 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: pro tools has been. You can do it in pro Tools, 665 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: but essentially they're they're pretty similar. You know, there are 666 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: two different outlets of the same idea, which is, how 667 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: do you give someone a set of tools to record 668 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: and sculpt audio in a digital environment? So how do 669 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: you end up going to music school? Huh? Um? I was. 670 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: I was a little doubtful about going to musicool at all. 671 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: I mean I was. I got to the age of 672 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: fifteen and I did my g c s c s, 673 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: which are the major high school exams in in in Britain, 674 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: and I was a bit tall, and I didn't know 675 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: whether to stay at that school or to move away, 676 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: and part of me kind of felt, I think it's 677 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: actually time to move away, um, And so there were 678 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: a few different options and I went. I ended up 679 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: going to the school called the Purcell School, which is 680 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: a school basically for classical musicians. And I really had 681 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: my hesitations because I wasn't classical musician. I wasn't really 682 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: thinking I would particularly fit in, but there was a 683 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: lot of appeal, particularly around like what was acceptable to 684 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: spend time doing and you know when when you were 685 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: sick for more. In Britain you have free periods and 686 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: you have time off and whatever. And at the Perseel 687 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: School there were rooms filled with computers with logic on them, 688 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: can you imagine? So I could go right straight from 689 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: you know, straight from my English literature class, straight onto 690 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: logic and skept something out. And the other thing that 691 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: was cool by that school, whether there were a few things, 692 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: but one was that there were always musicians around to 693 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: to try stuff out. So if I wanted to try 694 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: my hand at right in a piece for violin and 695 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: piano or I could do that. Or if I wanted 696 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: to write pro right piece for choir, which is really 697 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: like the thing I was most interested in was writing 698 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,959 Speaker 1: for voices, I could give it a shot and there 699 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: it was all. There would always be a choir there 700 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: to be like, yeah, we'll give it a go, like 701 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: we haven't got anything else to do. And so I 702 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: enjoyed the ease of that. I found the kind of that. 703 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: I found the lack of focus on academia difficult to 704 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: make the transition to because I loved using my mind, um, 705 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: you know, with languages especially. I loved I studied German. 706 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: I loved that so much. I loved English, and I 707 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: love stretching my understanding and analyzing things and talking about things, 708 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: and and so I found that the psychology at the 709 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: Personal School was was far removed from that. It wasn't 710 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: an academic place, and so that the sort of intellectual 711 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: speed of my mind found it a little bit kind 712 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: of just a little dry. But I loved just the 713 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: space and time that I was gifted just to explore, 714 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: you know. It was like more space to explore, more 715 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: time to explore, more outlets to explore. And that was 716 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: also the moment that I first kind of became interested 717 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: in jazz. And I heard jazz before, but but I 718 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: at that point I was crushing on harmony, like big time, 719 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: like musical harmony, like chords, and what cause could do? 720 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: I just I was losing my mind over acapella groups 721 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: like Take six and Singers Unlimited and all these amazing 722 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, high lows and and all that stuff. And 723 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: I was thinking man, this is this is amazing. And 724 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: I listened to groups like you know, Steely Dan and 725 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: and and people like that, you know, using these vocal 726 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: stacks and stuff, and it was acceptable to me. I thought, okay, 727 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: so that must be acceptable to write pop songs, to 728 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: write you know, groovy song like the songwriting including this language. 729 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: But I I was drawn into into the excuse me, 730 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: into the jazz world through my kind of thirst to 731 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: learn more about musical harmony and what I learned about 732 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: about jazz coming into it really from from cold, like 733 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: I didn't know any tunes. I had no technique on 734 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: the piano at all. When you when you play the piano, 735 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: it turns out it's actually helpful too. So when you're 736 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: when you're playing a scale, to move your thumb underneath 737 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: your fingers instead of just hopping up and down with 738 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: your hand. You actually it's a fluid motion. I've never 739 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: been shown that because I've never went to went to school, 740 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: I never learned. So there a few a few kind 741 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: of key moments for me, some some lessons, like one 742 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: off lessons I had with piano players who said like, hey, Jacob, 743 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: you know it's possible to do this, don't you or like, 744 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: have you ever considered this particular thing? And I was 745 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: so thirsty, I was so excited, and so jazz was 746 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: a place that was very mysterious to me. But the 747 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: cool thing about it was that people were improvising, which 748 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: I loved the idea of people were playing chords, which 749 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: I love the idea, but they were playing the chords 750 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: in a in a melodic way. So it wasn't like 751 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: cord cord chord. It was you know, a better better 752 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: if they haven't never did, and that's the chord. But 753 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: you have to understand that in a kind of vertical 754 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: way rather than a horizontal way. And so you had 755 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: these musicians who were improvising chords over time and space. 756 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: And then obviously I realized that this language has been 757 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: is about a hundred years old, and people have been 758 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: you know, exploring and expanding this for yeah, for literally 759 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: a hundred years, you know, from sort of Scott job 760 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: playing all the way up to miles and the way 761 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: up to you know, to to to the present day. 762 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: And that there's so many kind of eras and so 763 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: many magical spaces that that language has has operated. And 764 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: I was I was kind of hooked for a couple 765 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: of years. So when I joined the Personal School, I'm 766 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,280 Speaker 1: trying to think. I think it was the first study composer, 767 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,280 Speaker 1: which which I really felt out of place because everyone 768 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: was talking about counterpoint and bark and notation and I 769 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,839 Speaker 1: was talking about logic and mixing and songwriting. And then 770 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: I was the second study jazz piano player, and again 771 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: it was like, I don't know if I'm really a 772 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: jazz piano player. I sure like the idea of playing 773 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: the piano in a cool way, and I thought I 774 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: was the third study singer and a fourth study double 775 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,240 Speaker 1: bass player. And so I had this great, big tiered 776 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: system where I would go to these lessons and some 777 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: of them I I just didn't get at all, and 778 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: I was very bored, and some of them were really 779 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: changed my life. And I was just given a chance 780 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 1: to to kind of explore. And what it felt like 781 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 1: to me was that I was already chasing stuff. I 782 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,359 Speaker 1: was already fascinated by a language. So what that space 783 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: named me to do was just to extract the things 784 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: that I liked. It was like, Okay, I get that 785 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: I'm in school. I get that there are certain box 786 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: have to take, but aside from that, in Jacob Land. 787 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 1: I think I'll use this chord and this called inn, 788 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 1: this agorithm, and I like the idea of polarizing of 789 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 1: whatever here, and I like this piece of and I 790 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: was just I just collected, you know, I collected it 791 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,760 Speaker 1: in in a conscious way, things that I was enjoying. Okay, 792 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: people would say, and many do, the jazz is dead. 793 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: They say rock is dead. To someone who is a 794 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: relatively young consumer under the age of thirty, how do 795 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: you sell jazz to them? I'm talking about Jacob, I'm 796 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: not talking about literally in the store. How do you 797 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,880 Speaker 1: get them excited about this sound? I've got two answers 798 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: to that question. I guess the first would be that 799 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: in jazz more is possible than in any other genre 800 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,280 Speaker 1: you could say genre, because I think that what jazz 801 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: celebrates is a sense of freedom. It celebrates freedom thematically, 802 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: it celebrates freedom musically, that celebrates music. It's freedom cerebrally, 803 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: celebrates freedom spiritually if you really listen to the music 804 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: and listen to the stories behind it. Um And I 805 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: think that for anyone who's wanting to learn what music 806 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: is about, out and understand a little bit more about 807 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: the kind of the art of of what these forces 808 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: can do. I think you start with jazz, and my 809 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: dear friend Quincy Jones often says jazz is the classical 810 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: music of pop, which I like, and I often use 811 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,399 Speaker 1: that because I think that in a certain kind of way. 812 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: You know, if you learn class music, you grow up 813 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: in classical music. It kind of ends in class of music. 814 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,479 Speaker 1: But if you learn, if you learn about pop music 815 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 1: and you want to go deep, you want to go thorough, 816 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: jazz is the place to be because that's the umbrella 817 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,320 Speaker 1: underwe all of those forces make sense. In jazz. You 818 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: learn about pocket, you learn about groove, you learn about time, 819 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: you learn about improvisation and stretching things, you learn about 820 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: chords and melody, you learn about integrity and taste and 821 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: and patients and all all this all the tools that 822 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: you need to be a to be a musician kind 823 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: of in many different respects. You can take that training 824 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 1: out that's on the playing side. On the listening side, 825 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: many people will say this is discord and I don't 826 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: understand it. How does a listener gain knowledge and find 827 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: this music appealing? Well, I think perhaps it's about letting 828 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 1: go of the idea that you need to understand it 829 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,319 Speaker 1: to enjoy it. Um. I think if if people are 830 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 1: used to understanding music on face value, which would make sense. 831 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: You know, you listen to the radio and it's like 832 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,720 Speaker 1: someone will be singing about something that you can probably 833 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: relate to and and doing it in a way musically 834 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: that where there are kind of primary colors or I 835 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 1: think things are clear. That's one of the reasons I 836 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 1: love pot music so much because it's so clear, and 837 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: jazz is almost like the opposite of that. But I 838 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,399 Speaker 1: think that there's a real liberation in letting go of 839 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: needing to follow it and just kind of feeling it, 840 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: which is important. And I think that there's a lot 841 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: of catharsis that exists within the world of jazz um 842 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: you know, from from really kind of completely free jazz 843 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: with no time two quite quite organized structure jazz within 844 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 1: you know, ultimately defined spaces, which is which is glorious 845 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: and I think which can teach you more about humanity 846 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: and the human condition and what it really means to 847 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: be a person than than listening to a kind of 848 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 1: manufactured storytelling style, even though that's also importan and I 849 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 1: just think it's a it's an important part of the 850 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: of the musical world to understand, and I think it's 851 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: wonderful when you kind of let go of it a bit. Okay, 852 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: So how long do you go to school? How does 853 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: school end? Well? I was at the Post School for 854 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 1: two years um and the sort of natural progression of 855 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,839 Speaker 1: events from there was I went to the Royal Academy Music, 856 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: which is where my mom did that conducting when I 857 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: was two years old. And actually her father, Derek Colin, 858 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 1: my my grandfather, he taught there too. He was the 859 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 1: youngest ever professor at the Academy. So I was super 860 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 1: excited to go there. It's like, wow, this feels like 861 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 1: I'm continuing a lineage or a legacy of sorts. And 862 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,720 Speaker 1: I went there as a as a jazz piano student, 863 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: and I had again, I had a dicostomy. Do I 864 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: want to study composition or do I want to study jazz? 865 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:45,239 Speaker 1: And composition felt kind of quite high high, kind of 866 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: highbrow and not very tangible, but it was interesting to me. 867 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: But jazz felt like I was going to do something physical, 868 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: like I'm gonna play, I'm gonna learn, I'm gonna meet, 869 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: I'm gonna jam. So jazz was what I decided to do. 870 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: And it was a four year degree. It's a tiny 871 00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: course there was I mean, there were eight people in 872 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: my year and that was a big gear. So I 873 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 1: was the only piano player in the whole year. And 874 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: we learned standards, and we learned about improvising. We learned 875 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,320 Speaker 1: a little bit about arranging, and we learned about rhythm 876 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 1: and stuff. And at this point, I was, I was 877 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 1: so engaged in my own world that I was. I 878 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 1: guess I was caught between these two different psychologies because 879 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:21,839 Speaker 1: on the one hand, I was so thirsty and ready 880 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:23,880 Speaker 1: to learn. But I found a lot of the harmony 881 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: that I was being taught to be not particularly inspiring. 882 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,280 Speaker 1: And I found a lot of the structures that existed, 883 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: like the jazz structures, Like we learned the two and 884 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: then we improvised, then we come back. I thought, like, 885 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,400 Speaker 1: why does this language need to apply to only jazz? 886 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 1: You know, why can't I take a chord, like a 887 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: spicy chord and apply that to something else? And that 888 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 1: my mind has always worked like that. But I was, 889 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,320 Speaker 1: I was interested in it, and it was it was 890 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: cool to meet people and to play with people, and 891 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: you know, it was just a fascinating time in my life. 892 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,359 Speaker 1: And halfway through that degree, things got kind of much 893 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: crazier with with the videos I was up learned to YouTube, 894 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,479 Speaker 1: and kind of throughout the last I suppose three years 895 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: of the story where we've got to in the story, 896 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,439 Speaker 1: I was I was uploading, you know, YouTube videos from home. Things, 897 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,319 Speaker 1: I was making, things I was interested in I would like, 898 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: I want. What I love to do most was to 899 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:12,759 Speaker 1: was to take someone's song that I liked to just 900 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,279 Speaker 1: twist it and reinvent it and and and you know, 901 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:16,799 Speaker 1: arrange it, really cover it. And so I did that 902 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 1: with a few different songs, and one of those was 903 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,279 Speaker 1: Stevie Wonders Don't You Worry About a Thing, which I 904 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 1: love that tune, and I did this this you know 905 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: Jacobean twist on it and and the chords were all 906 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 1: all funny and twisted and complex and deepen and an 907 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,240 Speaker 1: unusual and then I played a few different instruments too, 908 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:36,920 Speaker 1: and and things, and it was it was a real 909 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,880 Speaker 1: challenge for me because I've never done anything remotely like 910 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 1: that before. But I thought, this is gonna be fun. 911 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna learn something from doing this. And I filmed 912 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: it too, and this that was another thing I was 913 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: just starting to do, was I put film each instrument. 914 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: I filmed the base, and I filmed the guitar and 915 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: the percussion, all the different Jacob voice faces, and I 916 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,840 Speaker 1: put them in this mosaic and and then I pressed upload. 917 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: The day after I uploaded, don't worry about a thing. 918 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,040 Speaker 1: Was just it's just crazy because I woke up and 919 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,760 Speaker 1: it was like a hundred thousand people have senior video Jacob, 920 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 1: and you know, I went into Gmail and it was 921 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 1: like Quincy Jones, you know, an email from Quincy Jones. 922 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 1: I thought, God, that's just is that even real? You know? 923 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 1: Is someone is someone messing with me deeply? Or is 924 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 1: this actually Quincy Jones? And I wrote back and it 925 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: was Quincy Jones and we got on Skype and we 926 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: hung out a little bit, which is which is super cool. 927 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,240 Speaker 1: And I got an email from Herbie Hancock and email 928 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,919 Speaker 1: from from Tick six. So I mentioned and a few 929 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 1: a few people that were just very important figures for me, 930 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 1: especially with it that jazz moment of my life. But 931 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: someone like Quincy had defined, you know, basically at that 932 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 1: point up to up to two decades of musical education 933 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 1: from his work with arranging for Frank Sinatra to you know, 934 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 1: producing m J. And I mean, it's just so many 935 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,719 Speaker 1: different things that that he had had his hand him 936 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: and so it was amazing to meet Quincy. And that 937 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 1: was all happening in my second year at the Academy. 938 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 1: And so at the end of my second year at 939 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: the Academy, I had this kind of decision to make 940 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,440 Speaker 1: because this career of mine was kind of taking off 941 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,040 Speaker 1: and I hadn't planned the career. I hadn't planned to 942 00:41:58,080 --> 00:41:59,680 Speaker 1: have a big career anything. I just thought I was 943 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 1: making stuff I liked and and suddenly it was like 944 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,440 Speaker 1: there was this great, big adventure to be had, and 945 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: it was like come over to La because there's this 946 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,400 Speaker 1: thing that we like you to do, or come over here. 947 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:08,759 Speaker 1: I'd like took you to work with me. And so 948 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 1: at the end of my second year, I bowed out 949 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: of the Academy and I started to full time tackle 950 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,520 Speaker 1: this this thing. And from that moment on, man, it's 951 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 1: it's been pretty pretty NonStop. Okay, when you did this, 952 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,959 Speaker 1: when you shot the initial video for Don't You Worry 953 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,359 Speaker 1: About a Thing, did you literally was at a one 954 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,319 Speaker 1: man b and you both shot it and played it 955 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:36,120 Speaker 1: or do you have anybody else helping you? It was me, okay, 956 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,360 Speaker 1: it was you know, you're of the generation prior to 957 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,360 Speaker 1: uploading that. Were you uploading in your life other videos? 958 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 1: Were you a social media guy? Not at all. No, 959 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,440 Speaker 1: I really didn't like social media at all. Um, And yeah, 960 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:53,840 Speaker 1: the whole thing was was was funny because on the 961 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,439 Speaker 1: one hand, like I've never really I've had a little 962 00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,320 Speaker 1: bit of of a of an a version of sorts 963 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,359 Speaker 1: to people who just try and sell themselves all the time. 964 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,440 Speaker 1: It's just like, ah, I don't know, I don't know 965 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: if I really like that. And I felt that when 966 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,279 Speaker 1: I was eight years old going to audition for these 967 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,400 Speaker 1: films and operas and it would be like these these 968 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,480 Speaker 1: kids with their mothers and they'll be like, oh my 969 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 1: son's this and that, and oh we is big and important. 970 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 1: I you just done this. It's just like, wow, I 971 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:16,839 Speaker 1: don't care, Like I don't want to know. I don't 972 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 1: that's not my currency at all. Like it's great, but 973 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 1: but like what is it? What's the thing? Like the 974 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 1: thing is what I'm interested in. And so social media 975 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: for me was odd because on the one hand, I've 976 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:29,879 Speaker 1: always loved connecting with people and it's something that brings 977 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 1: me a great amount of joy and a great amount 978 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 1: of purpose. But I never really liked the sense of 979 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 1: kind of like YouTubers, you know, the currency of YouTube. 980 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:37,839 Speaker 1: It's like, hey, you know, I'm me and I'm living 981 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,759 Speaker 1: my life and you're a part of it. And so 982 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,200 Speaker 1: I kind of kept a lot of my world completely 983 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:44,920 Speaker 1: private from social media. And it was more just kind 984 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,319 Speaker 1: of like, here's the thing I made, and here's another 985 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 1: thing I made, and there's another thing I made. And 986 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,760 Speaker 1: I didn't really I didn't feel the need to unpack 987 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,440 Speaker 1: it or talk about it or sell it. I mean, 988 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,560 Speaker 1: I posted these things once on Facebook and that was it, 989 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 1: you know, and between I know that, between don't you 990 00:43:58,080 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 1: know about a thing? And that my next video was 991 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,520 Speaker 1: snating rhythm, it was I think eight months and I 992 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 1: didn't post once once at all, and I just thought, 993 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,800 Speaker 1: I don't need to. I've got nothing, there's nothing particularly 994 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:09,839 Speaker 1: to say, you know, I don't feel they need to 995 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:11,880 Speaker 1: engage people. I just I want to focus on what 996 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,960 Speaker 1: I'm doing. Okay, how many times you do you you uploaded 997 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,560 Speaker 1: to YouTube anything, whether it be you making a joke, 998 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:24,279 Speaker 1: you're playing football. Before were you YouTube savvy? Before you 999 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,239 Speaker 1: put up don't you Worry about a thing? I think 1000 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,160 Speaker 1: I was about eight videos deep, or so eight or 1001 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,239 Speaker 1: nine videos deep, and there were each iterations of a 1002 00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,840 Speaker 1: of a similar concept. But you know that. Yeah. I 1003 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 1: did a couple of kind of interesting, odd electronic things 1004 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,239 Speaker 1: at first, and then I started doing the multiple face thing. 1005 00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,000 Speaker 1: And I arranged I've told every Little Start, which is 1006 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,600 Speaker 1: a Jerome Current tune, And then I arranged Isn't She Lovely? 1007 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,080 Speaker 1: Which is a Stevie tune, and and I arranged I 1008 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,960 Speaker 1: saw three ships, and I arranged um over a beautiful morning, 1009 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 1: and and and a few of the things that but 1010 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 1: don't You Worry was the first time it kind of 1011 00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,479 Speaker 1: struck a chord. I suppose, Okay, do you have any 1012 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:03,319 Speaker 1: idea what caused a hundred thousand people to watch it 1013 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,400 Speaker 1: was just purely viral or did someone famous pick up 1014 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,000 Speaker 1: on it? Or was it listed as you know, video 1015 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:14,200 Speaker 1: of the day somewhere. Um well, I'm still not exactly sure, 1016 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,239 Speaker 1: but I think that what I sensed, very keenly was 1017 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 1: that this wasn't just kind of like random people. It 1018 00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,840 Speaker 1: was musicians who are listening to it. It felt I 1019 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 1: felt like I tapped into some kind of musicians community worldwide, 1020 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,279 Speaker 1: where something about the way that I was sharing the 1021 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,160 Speaker 1: ideas and the musical choices I was making, that was 1022 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,080 Speaker 1: the thing that I think took people by surprise. And 1023 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,279 Speaker 1: I didn't really plan that, and I didn't think too 1024 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,359 Speaker 1: much of it myself, because it was, as far as 1025 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,360 Speaker 1: I was concerned, it was, you know, a fully up 1026 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,360 Speaker 1: to date Jacob understanding of music, like this is my 1027 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,200 Speaker 1: understanding music. This is just this is where I'm at. 1028 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,560 Speaker 1: This is nothing spectacular other than what I'm thinking. But 1029 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,400 Speaker 1: I think that specifically the harmony in that particular arrangement 1030 00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,960 Speaker 1: was was quite bold. And I know for I know 1031 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:00,759 Speaker 1: for example that when I spoke to Intae, his first 1032 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,239 Speaker 1: question where his first question was how many girlfriends you've got? 1033 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,319 Speaker 1: And I said twenty seven and he was like, oh 1034 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 1: really man. And then the second question was where'd you 1035 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,720 Speaker 1: get those chords? And I sort of, you know, it's Quincy. 1036 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,600 Speaker 1: I thought, I don't know Benjamin Britain because I kind 1037 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,120 Speaker 1: of got the from Bendorm of Britain in some ways. 1038 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,200 Speaker 1: And I said, oh, take six five, and I checked 1039 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:20,719 Speaker 1: out a couple of names, and he like laughed and 1040 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: he was like, man, I don't. I don't know how 1041 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:23,600 Speaker 1: you did it. I don't. I don't know how you 1042 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 1: got to those conclusions like it's just mind blowing, man, 1043 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,520 Speaker 1: it's crazy. And and that was really validating for me because, 1044 00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:30,360 Speaker 1: as I said, harmony was so important to me, and 1045 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,520 Speaker 1: I really really loved it, and I loved pushing it 1046 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,160 Speaker 1: and it felt like the musicians of the world sensed 1047 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,360 Speaker 1: something in that video. But but and part of it 1048 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:39,880 Speaker 1: was a musical thing. I think maybe part of it 1049 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,120 Speaker 1: was also just a style of communication, which at that 1050 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,719 Speaker 1: time it wasn't particularly rife. You know, like you had 1051 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,480 Speaker 1: people doing split screen videos sometimes, but they were kind 1052 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,880 Speaker 1: of comedy people or or they were you know, it 1053 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:52,640 Speaker 1: was it was like a different a different currency, whereas 1054 00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:54,160 Speaker 1: I think I was doing something that was sort of 1055 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,520 Speaker 1: purely musical. It wasn't trying to be anything more than 1056 00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,960 Speaker 1: just musical. And my feeling is, and I'm probably not 1057 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:01,720 Speaker 1: right past to ask, but my feeling is that something 1058 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:05,760 Speaker 1: about that as a statement, as a pure statement, struck 1059 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,399 Speaker 1: some kind of chord with with people. Okay, how long 1060 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:13,399 Speaker 1: after that initial time you're hearing from Q before you 1061 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:17,040 Speaker 1: put out your first album in my room? Mm hm, 1062 00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,919 Speaker 1: three years? I suppose. So what happens in their three 1063 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,240 Speaker 1: year period. Well, um, I went over to Montrose, Switzerland 1064 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:26,040 Speaker 1: to the Jazz Festival, and I don't know if you've 1065 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,480 Speaker 1: been there, that's just beautiful, beautiful place. And Quincy kind 1066 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:29,839 Speaker 1: of rules the roost. He is kind of like king 1067 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,439 Speaker 1: of montro And so I went over there to meet 1068 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,000 Speaker 1: to to meet the great man, and I met Herbie too, 1069 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,760 Speaker 1: and Quincy, you know, Quincy what was just so excited 1070 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,280 Speaker 1: about what I was doing, and he kind of offered 1071 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 1: to be my my manager and to represent in terms 1072 00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,920 Speaker 1: of management. And I was extremely flattered and and really thrilled. 1073 00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: And I was also a little uncertain because I've always 1074 00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:53,400 Speaker 1: done things kind of in my own time and on 1075 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,160 Speaker 1: my own terms, and I I really was not about 1076 00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:57,680 Speaker 1: to say like, yeah, I'm going to go and be 1077 00:47:57,719 --> 00:47:59,920 Speaker 1: a big star. I knew that I needed to just 1078 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:01,960 Speaker 1: do what I wanted to do. And so, you know, 1079 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,600 Speaker 1: I met Quincy's team, who were just amazing people, and 1080 00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:06,720 Speaker 1: I got to know them a little bit more, and 1081 00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:08,319 Speaker 1: the kind of consensus that we came to was like, 1082 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,759 Speaker 1: let's just be friends for a year before we sign 1083 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:13,520 Speaker 1: any contracts, before we do anything. I just want to 1084 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:15,480 Speaker 1: I just want to explore the thing. I want to 1085 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,160 Speaker 1: take time, I want to get I want to I 1086 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,839 Speaker 1: want to refine what I'm doing and and they were, 1087 00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:21,640 Speaker 1: they were amazing about that, and they really gave me 1088 00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,000 Speaker 1: a space. But you know, things started to come in, 1089 00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,160 Speaker 1: like I scored a commercial for Beats, which was really 1090 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,640 Speaker 1: exciting at that time, and um, I I started to 1091 00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,719 Speaker 1: think about how I would tour um and even before 1092 00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:33,960 Speaker 1: in my room, I was thinking about at a tour 1093 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,919 Speaker 1: and I was, I was gifted this concert, this gig 1094 00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,279 Speaker 1: that that Quincy kind of orchestrated for me. That was 1095 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,560 Speaker 1: I was. I opened up much of justice will for 1096 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,799 Speaker 1: Herbie Handcock and Chick Career two just giants, legends and 1097 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,200 Speaker 1: heroes of mine. And I had this thirty minute window 1098 00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:49,279 Speaker 1: and it was like, Jake, if you want to come 1099 00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:50,960 Speaker 1: to montro and open up for these guys in some way, 1100 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,279 Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, I'd love to, but I have 1101 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,759 Speaker 1: not a clue I'm going to do this. And you know, 1102 00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:57,600 Speaker 1: we we we spoke as a team like what what 1103 00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:59,120 Speaker 1: could we do it? I could bring a band over, 1104 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:00,960 Speaker 1: I did not. I did not want to bring a 1105 00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:02,520 Speaker 1: jazz band. I didn't want to be a jazz kid. 1106 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:03,960 Speaker 1: I didn't want to do do the jazz thing. I 1107 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,200 Speaker 1: didn't want to to do that, and I thought I 1108 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:08,880 Speaker 1: could play on my own on the piano, but I 1109 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:10,600 Speaker 1: thought there must be something more dynamic I can do 1110 00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,840 Speaker 1: that could that could kind of reflect more of my process, 1111 00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,319 Speaker 1: you know, one man band type process. And out of 1112 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,279 Speaker 1: the blue drops a Facebook message from an m I 1113 00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:23,400 Speaker 1: T PhD student whose name is Ben Bloomberg, and Ben says, 1114 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,879 Speaker 1: hey just saw your video. Don't you worry about a thing? 1115 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,840 Speaker 1: And I think it's beautiful. And I make stuff. You know, 1116 00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:31,640 Speaker 1: I work with the Orc, I've worked with Image and Heap, 1117 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,040 Speaker 1: I work with okay Go, and I built I built 1118 00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,040 Speaker 1: a robot opera for a composer called Todd Mcover. And 1119 00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:40,319 Speaker 1: you know, I like building stuff. And have you ever 1120 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:41,759 Speaker 1: thought a boy building stuff? And if you have, like, 1121 00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:43,520 Speaker 1: give me a call. Let's jump on Skype. And it 1122 00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:45,160 Speaker 1: was one of those crazy moments where it's like, Wow, 1123 00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:46,920 Speaker 1: this is exactly what I need to be doing right now. 1124 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:48,759 Speaker 1: So Ben, when I jumped on Skype, we had like 1125 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,799 Speaker 1: a five hour marathon thing, and I had lists and 1126 00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,120 Speaker 1: lists and lists of stuff I had always wanted to 1127 00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:57,520 Speaker 1: build from, you know, intelligent harmonic systems, to tiered rhythmic 1128 00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,680 Speaker 1: manipulation tools, to a one man's show with the circle 1129 00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,480 Speaker 1: of instruments, to a vocal harmonizer where I could sing 1130 00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:05,560 Speaker 1: harmonies and play notes and out would come the harmonies. 1131 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,239 Speaker 1: And Ben was Ben was really amazing, and he said, 1132 00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:09,840 Speaker 1: you know what, let's just start with the harmonizer and 1133 00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,400 Speaker 1: see how it feels. So I flew over to Boston 1134 00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,920 Speaker 1: a few months later, and a few things happened in 1135 00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,320 Speaker 1: that trip. One was I did my first ever master 1136 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,760 Speaker 1: class at Berkeley, which is a school of music in Boston, 1137 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,040 Speaker 1: and it was it was the first time I've ever 1138 00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,480 Speaker 1: seen anyone ever in the real world who was a 1139 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,760 Speaker 1: fan of mine. I've never seen anything like it because 1140 00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:29,680 Speaker 1: it was all invisible from here from London. It was 1141 00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:31,800 Speaker 1: like this random thing that was happening in a different universe. 1142 00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:34,440 Speaker 1: And and the day before I went to Boston, I 1143 00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:36,839 Speaker 1: got a call from someone at Berkeley said, I heard 1144 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,040 Speaker 1: you're coming to Boston, that you want to come to 1145 00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,360 Speaker 1: a class and be like guessing people together. And I 1146 00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,520 Speaker 1: got in that room and like the entire room was 1147 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,440 Speaker 1: packed so full that none could breathe, and it's spilled 1148 00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,480 Speaker 1: out into the corridor and all along the thing, and 1149 00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,360 Speaker 1: I was completely unexpected. I mean, you have to understand, 1150 00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,279 Speaker 1: I had no I had no reference point for what 1151 00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,160 Speaker 1: the real world was like. I'd never even traveled abroad 1152 00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,040 Speaker 1: on my own, Like, this is my first flight alone 1153 00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:00,560 Speaker 1: away from home. And I did this class and it 1154 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:02,880 Speaker 1: felt crazy to have people that kind of spoke my 1155 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,239 Speaker 1: language that were interested in I went to see them. 1156 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,680 Speaker 1: We built this vocal harmonizer. It was amazing. He's a brilliant, 1157 00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:12,080 Speaker 1: brilliant minded guy. M We then sort of graduated that 1158 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,040 Speaker 1: idea into this one man show which we started to build. 1159 00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,840 Speaker 1: And essentially what that was was a circle musical instruments 1160 00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,360 Speaker 1: with with loopers that connected them, so you had a 1161 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,840 Speaker 1: double bass of grand piano, you had percussion, keyboards, melodica, guitar, 1162 00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,800 Speaker 1: Me and my vocal harmonies are at the center. And 1163 00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,640 Speaker 1: that that show was kind of sketched out for this 1164 00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,440 Speaker 1: Montro gig. And that was in July of two thousand 1165 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:36,640 Speaker 1: and fifteen, I believe, And so I went over to Montro. 1166 00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:38,759 Speaker 1: That's only five years ago, I suppose, but I went 1167 00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,359 Speaker 1: over over there and I did the gig. I did 1168 00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,040 Speaker 1: that the thirty minute gig, and we've never even run 1169 00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:44,560 Speaker 1: the show through. It was such a last minute thing, 1170 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:47,880 Speaker 1: and it was really really really exciting and completely new. 1171 00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,160 Speaker 1: I haven't even really done gigs before. It's kind of 1172 00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,319 Speaker 1: like my first gig, you know. And so I went 1173 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,879 Speaker 1: there and I experienced that feeling of like three thousand people, 1174 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,520 Speaker 1: no one knew who I was, and and and it 1175 00:51:57,600 --> 00:51:59,920 Speaker 1: was it was crazy. And there was Quincy Jones her 1176 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,280 Speaker 1: handcocked chick career, and Rashida Jones just sitting on the 1177 00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,319 Speaker 1: side of the stage just kind of looking and it 1178 00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,640 Speaker 1: was just a crazy moment, you know, really really crazy moment. 1179 00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,640 Speaker 1: And from that moment onwards, it kind of flipped and 1180 00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,880 Speaker 1: suddenly I think I felt like I had something to do, 1181 00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:16,920 Speaker 1: and so I did. I did some gigs, I did 1182 00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,719 Speaker 1: more gigs, I traveled just in different places, and we 1183 00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:21,279 Speaker 1: put together a little bit of a touring crew for 1184 00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:23,080 Speaker 1: the one man show. We we designed a visual element 1185 00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,560 Speaker 1: to it too, where there were these two connect cameras 1186 00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,279 Speaker 1: xbox cameras which captured my three D skeletal movements and 1187 00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,160 Speaker 1: so when I looped something, I would step away from 1188 00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,880 Speaker 1: an instrument and you'd have a Jacob incarnation on stage 1189 00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,680 Speaker 1: playing that instrument in visual loop to go with what 1190 00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:37,680 Speaker 1: you were hearing. So it's this kind of audio visual thing, 1191 00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,879 Speaker 1: and it was it was super fun. And one year 1192 00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,200 Speaker 1: later I released Him in My Room, the album which 1193 00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,440 Speaker 1: I made over the course of about three months between 1194 00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:48,120 Speaker 1: those two summers, and those are kind of like my 1195 00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,320 Speaker 1: first songs, and it was really gratifying and really exciting, 1196 00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,600 Speaker 1: and I learned times from it, and and so it 1197 00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:56,879 Speaker 1: was this thing where it's like, well, I guess I've 1198 00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,200 Speaker 1: got fans, I guess I've got an album. I guess 1199 00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,680 Speaker 1: I've got a show. I may as well be I 1200 00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:03,800 Speaker 1: may as well be having a career. And so I 1201 00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:08,839 Speaker 1: went on tour, and I toured from July one, which 1202 00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,080 Speaker 1: was the Daily album, dropped to the end of What 1203 00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:16,000 Speaker 1: I Guess with the One Man Show, and about mid 1204 00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:20,960 Speaker 1: teen I I was kind of excited about what I 1205 00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,239 Speaker 1: might do next, what I might create next, um, and 1206 00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,000 Speaker 1: there all sorts of things that happened kind of between, 1207 00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,239 Speaker 1: but between these times I'm mentioning, but I had this 1208 00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,600 Speaker 1: idea that whatever I did next, I wanted to be 1209 00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:33,839 Speaker 1: in some way collaborative, because this was fun and everything, 1210 00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:35,200 Speaker 1: the one man show thing. But after a while it 1211 00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:37,120 Speaker 1: was a little bit exhausting because it was like I 1212 00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,839 Speaker 1: couldn't really play. I couldn't really be a musician too much. 1213 00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,040 Speaker 1: I could be a I kind of you know. I 1214 00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:43,759 Speaker 1: ran around playing all the stuff and nailing it. And 1215 00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,280 Speaker 1: I was most excited by the audiences because I started 1216 00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,360 Speaker 1: to play the audiences a little bit and learn what 1217 00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,520 Speaker 1: what that felt like and learn what kind of people 1218 00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:52,840 Speaker 1: they were musicians they were. But I think after a 1219 00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:54,279 Speaker 1: couple of years, I was a bit exhausted by it. 1220 00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:57,160 Speaker 1: So I came back and I thought, whatever I do next, 1221 00:53:57,160 --> 00:53:58,840 Speaker 1: it's got to be something collaborative, and it's gonna be 1222 00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,239 Speaker 1: something big. And then that's what led me into the 1223 00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,239 Speaker 1: whole realm of the kind of quadruple album which became 1224 00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:12,400 Speaker 1: Jesse Okay. A couple of things. Adam Fell, who runs 1225 00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,240 Speaker 1: the label you're on, he would tell me, oh, Jacob's 1226 00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,200 Speaker 1: fans are really passionate. This is even you know before 1227 00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:24,000 Speaker 1: Jesse Okay, how did you gain the fan base or 1228 00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,760 Speaker 1: did you just you know, show up Because normally, unless 1229 00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,960 Speaker 1: you have radio play whatever you you could say you 1230 00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:32,400 Speaker 1: want to go into it, but no one comes. Um 1231 00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,719 Speaker 1: It's it's hard to say. I think I think there 1232 00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:37,960 Speaker 1: was probably something, and again I'm probably the wrong post 1233 00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:39,160 Speaker 1: to us, but I think there was something in what 1234 00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:42,160 Speaker 1: I was doing in spirit which connected with people in 1235 00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,040 Speaker 1: a sense that I wasn't trying to be a pop star. 1236 00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:47,520 Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to gain fans. I wasn't trying to 1237 00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:52,120 Speaker 1: sell records. I was kind of just committed to getting 1238 00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:54,279 Speaker 1: as good as I get doing the thing I was doing, 1239 00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:56,680 Speaker 1: and I wanted to deepen it. And so I feel 1240 00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:00,400 Speaker 1: like the musician community trusted that in a certain kind 1241 00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:03,040 Speaker 1: of way because they knew that it was quite something 1242 00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:04,919 Speaker 1: about it was real and quite pure in a sense 1243 00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,040 Speaker 1: like it wasn't I wasn't. I wasn't trying to sell myself. 1244 00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:09,879 Speaker 1: I kind of never have tried to sell myself too much. 1245 00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:11,440 Speaker 1: It was just a sense of I want to do 1246 00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,200 Speaker 1: something that feels right, and something about that I think 1247 00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:16,840 Speaker 1: gradually started to connect with people. And you know, I 1248 00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:19,840 Speaker 1: look back now and I think my first fans were musicians, 1249 00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:21,200 Speaker 1: and I would do gigs and it would be like 1250 00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,439 Speaker 1: musicians and be like, well, this is this is kind 1251 00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:26,919 Speaker 1: of niche and cool and for me great fun because 1252 00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:28,600 Speaker 1: they speak the language, so I can make jokes and 1253 00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,440 Speaker 1: they're laugh musical jokes, and I can take them places, 1254 00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:34,000 Speaker 1: I can defy their expectations, and there's this unspoken understanding. 1255 00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:36,880 Speaker 1: And then after my room came out, I sensed this 1256 00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,839 Speaker 1: kind of widening circle, which I thinks. I guess it's 1257 00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:41,880 Speaker 1: always had musicians at the center of it in in 1258 00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,960 Speaker 1: a sense, but I think something about the kind of 1259 00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:47,759 Speaker 1: the spirit of it and and the fact that it 1260 00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,840 Speaker 1: was just that I've always do. I've always been committed 1261 00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,200 Speaker 1: to being myself and that's been the most important thing 1262 00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,840 Speaker 1: um and I've always been willing to share part of 1263 00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:58,520 Speaker 1: that process with the world. I think part of that 1264 00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:01,239 Speaker 1: connected to people. One thing that I think was a 1265 00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,600 Speaker 1: turning point for my fan base was one moment after 1266 00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:09,120 Speaker 1: a gig in Chicago on February the Febuen for recall, 1267 00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:10,759 Speaker 1: two days after the grammar is the first time I 1268 00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:13,200 Speaker 1: want two Grammars, which is crazy, and a fan of 1269 00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:15,719 Speaker 1: mine took me aside after the gig and said, hey, 1270 00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:18,600 Speaker 1: I transcribed all of your arrangements and I said, wow, 1271 00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:21,440 Speaker 1: that's crazy, and he showed me the transcriptions. They were 1272 00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,719 Speaker 1: like ridiculously accurate, and I thought something, this guy's this 1273 00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:26,400 Speaker 1: guy is really amazing, And I said Hey, can I 1274 00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,520 Speaker 1: ask you like ten minutes worth questions just about music? 1275 00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:31,000 Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, sure, it's like can I film 1276 00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:34,240 Speaker 1: it setually? Sure? And he says, hey, Jacob, what's um 1277 00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:37,279 Speaker 1: what super ultra hyper mega meta lidian and I've made 1278 00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,000 Speaker 1: this art. It's like a concept I've made up. I thought, 1279 00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,200 Speaker 1: like I made up the concept. I said, well, June, 1280 00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,080 Speaker 1: it's it's the concept of superimposing multiple lidian modes on 1281 00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:48,360 Speaker 1: top of others. And it feels really bright and it 1282 00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:51,040 Speaker 1: feels really alien, but it makes sense because it's grounded 1283 00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:53,920 Speaker 1: and the fundamental and so what's the fundamental? Said? The 1284 00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,760 Speaker 1: fundamental is this and said, hey, Jacob, was negative harmony? 1285 00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:59,719 Speaker 1: I said, well, negative harmony is It's a principle that 1286 00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:01,480 Speaker 1: I come across when I was at school, and it 1287 00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:04,520 Speaker 1: was the idea that you could invert all harmony across 1288 00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:07,320 Speaker 1: an axis and it would become a like an alternate 1289 00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:10,640 Speaker 1: way of of of hearing and staying the harmony. That 1290 00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:14,040 Speaker 1: was a foreign thing. And I explained these things to him, 1291 00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:15,759 Speaker 1: and I kind of, I guess in human terms, it 1292 00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:17,720 Speaker 1: was like, this is not rocket science, this is not 1293 00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,200 Speaker 1: physics and crazy. This is just human stuff. It's just 1294 00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,800 Speaker 1: like high resolution emotional stuff. And so we spoke about 1295 00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,560 Speaker 1: all these kind of nerdy concepts and I felt great. 1296 00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:27,840 Speaker 1: I mean, it was cool to have someone who asked 1297 00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,600 Speaker 1: me the questions. That video made a big impact on 1298 00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,240 Speaker 1: the musicians community around the world. It seemed it had 1299 00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:35,919 Speaker 1: a million views within a couple of months, and and 1300 00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:38,920 Speaker 1: I think that people connected. Not the thing that I 1301 00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:40,880 Speaker 1: was interested in seeing the comment to that video that 1302 00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:42,920 Speaker 1: made me think was that it wasn't musicians who are 1303 00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,560 Speaker 1: connecting to it, just it was also people who are 1304 00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:48,320 Speaker 1: who are listening to the things I was saying as 1305 00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,360 Speaker 1: well as the things I was playing. And off the 1306 00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,520 Speaker 1: back of that video, I got a call from Ted 1307 00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:53,959 Speaker 1: to come and do a Ted talk, and I also 1308 00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,040 Speaker 1: got a call from Wired magazine to come and do it. 1309 00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:59,800 Speaker 1: They were doing a series about this. You know, you 1310 00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:01,840 Speaker 1: might have seen some of these five Tiers five five 1311 00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:04,480 Speaker 1: Levels of Understanding videos. So would be someone will come in, 1312 00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:07,520 Speaker 1: like an astrophysics expert and say, okay, this is astro 1313 00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:10,960 Speaker 1: physics but explained to a six year old, thirteen year old, 1314 00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:14,360 Speaker 1: eighteen year old PhD student and like master. And so 1315 00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,360 Speaker 1: they asked me to do this with Harmony, which obviously 1316 00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:17,920 Speaker 1: I was very excited to do. So I came in 1317 00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:21,880 Speaker 1: and did that, and and that video that very brought 1318 00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:23,640 Speaker 1: in a lot of people, which is which is very 1319 00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,360 Speaker 1: very cool. And I think that what I realized was 1320 00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:29,040 Speaker 1: that I was building a sense of trust between me 1321 00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:34,720 Speaker 1: and my audience where people would trust me in my 1322 00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,920 Speaker 1: creations more than they would trust how much they liked 1323 00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,320 Speaker 1: or understood the music I was making, because there was 1324 00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:42,800 Speaker 1: a dialogue that I was interested in and opening up 1325 00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:46,320 Speaker 1: four people about what music is and how it fits 1326 00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,240 Speaker 1: together and and and what drives it and why the 1327 00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:52,000 Speaker 1: concept why these kind of like heady concepts, theory concepts 1328 00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:55,720 Speaker 1: which means nothing without musicality behind them, why and how 1329 00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:57,480 Speaker 1: they can be applied in ways that are cool and 1330 00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:00,120 Speaker 1: makes sense and a groovy and kind of hip. And 1331 00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:02,840 Speaker 1: so there was this rush, this influx of people who 1332 00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,920 Speaker 1: had always been thirsty to kind of get interested in music. 1333 00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:09,360 Speaker 1: And obviously primarily this is musicians, but it really energized 1334 00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:11,600 Speaker 1: that community when I started to talk. And I think 1335 00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,520 Speaker 1: that the moment I started to talk, it stopped being 1336 00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:16,480 Speaker 1: about the music. It started being about the person in 1337 00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:18,960 Speaker 1: a certain kind of way. And so I would tour, 1338 00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,200 Speaker 1: I would travel, and I would and I would talk 1339 00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:24,520 Speaker 1: and I would play, and in a certain kind of 1340 00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:28,120 Speaker 1: a way, there was a sort of freedom that I 1341 00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:31,680 Speaker 1: was operating within where I wasn't planning much. I wasn't thinking, 1342 00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:33,680 Speaker 1: you know, what, what would be great is if I 1343 00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:35,440 Speaker 1: if I build a campaign, I make an album that's 1344 00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:37,000 Speaker 1: just like this, and it fits into this nation, We'll 1345 00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:38,960 Speaker 1: get players in here, and then this person. It was 1346 00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:41,680 Speaker 1: more kind of like, let's just you know, let's let's 1347 00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,000 Speaker 1: imagine that genres just don't exist for a second, and 1348 00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:46,480 Speaker 1: let's imagine that the music industry doesn't exist for a second. 1349 00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:50,640 Speaker 1: Let's just do something that is real and and that 1350 00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:53,040 Speaker 1: is meaningful to me. Because in my mind, if I 1351 00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:57,800 Speaker 1: think about what successes for me, success is just sustainability. Really, 1352 00:59:57,840 --> 00:59:59,120 Speaker 1: it's being able to do what I want to do 1353 00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:02,200 Speaker 1: for a long period of time and have people you know, 1354 01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,520 Speaker 1: be there for that and and and help guide it. 1355 01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:06,240 Speaker 1: And so I think that to answer it's a long 1356 01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:10,160 Speaker 1: rambling answer, but to answer you a question, I think that, Um, 1357 01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:13,080 Speaker 1: I think that I've noticed a trust that exists around 1358 01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:15,880 Speaker 1: the way I think about music, which permeates the music 1359 01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:17,360 Speaker 1: I make and the music that I talk about, and 1360 01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,919 Speaker 1: the music that I learn from um and I think 1361 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,240 Speaker 1: that with the with the Jesse project, what I wanted 1362 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,360 Speaker 1: to do was to stretch as much as I could 1363 01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:31,400 Speaker 1: open my my kind of genre space, to encompass whatever 1364 01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:33,080 Speaker 1: kind of music you were into, Like, there will be 1365 01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:36,080 Speaker 1: something you might like that that might encourage you to 1366 01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:38,200 Speaker 1: jump on the train that is that the you know, 1367 01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:41,720 Speaker 1: the Jesse train. So Volume one was a very orchestral 1368 01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:43,960 Speaker 1: album and it wasn't remotely classical. Well it was, I 1369 01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:46,439 Speaker 1: supposed remotely classical, but there were so many other things 1370 01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,200 Speaker 1: going on, but it felt like an orchestral album. Volume 1371 01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,400 Speaker 1: two was more of a folk album, and Volume three, 1372 01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:53,040 Speaker 1: I guess you could says it's an R and B 1373 01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:54,800 Speaker 1: album or a little bit more of a pop apum 1374 01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,840 Speaker 1: or electronic album. And I guess maybe maybe the thing 1375 01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:00,720 Speaker 1: that's been a value to people, and certainly I would 1376 01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:04,560 Speaker 1: say musicians, is the is the kind of fearless approach 1377 01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:06,920 Speaker 1: to making something just for the sake of making it 1378 01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:08,640 Speaker 1: rather than for the sake of anything else, and just 1379 01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,000 Speaker 1: kind of writing that out and seeing where it ends up. 1380 01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:12,040 Speaker 1: And I don't know where I was going to end 1381 01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:13,880 Speaker 1: up at all, but that that's the kind of thing 1382 01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:17,840 Speaker 1: that I've been committing to Okay, a couple of things. Uh, 1383 01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:21,320 Speaker 1: someone who goes to your show would be stunned by 1384 01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:26,640 Speaker 1: the then participation. You're you direct the audience to do 1385 01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:30,320 Speaker 1: certain things. How did you develop that? I will never 1386 01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:34,640 Speaker 1: forget two YouTube videos that really inspired me to do that. Well, 1387 01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:37,280 Speaker 1: I guess three things. First of me, my mom conducting 1388 01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:40,400 Speaker 1: because that was my first understanding that of what music 1389 01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:42,280 Speaker 1: should be. So I think that stayed with me. Two 1390 01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:45,560 Speaker 1: is Bobby McFerrin in the eighties did these spontaneous inventions 1391 01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:47,840 Speaker 1: gigs with just on his own with the mic and 1392 01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:50,480 Speaker 1: he would just do crazy stuff and it just be 1393 01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:52,480 Speaker 1: be weird and wacko and get the audience to be 1394 01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:54,720 Speaker 1: his accompanying figure, or he would accompany the audience. And 1395 01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:57,040 Speaker 1: that to me was like, Wow, I can't believe that's possible. 1396 01:01:57,040 --> 01:01:58,840 Speaker 1: I company you can get away of doing that. And 1397 01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:01,000 Speaker 1: then and then I saw Freddie Mercury at Live Aid 1398 01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:04,200 Speaker 1: with his corner response thing, and I think it's after 1399 01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:05,600 Speaker 1: the first song he just said he was like what 1400 01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:08,040 Speaker 1: and then the audience goes because he puts the microphone 1401 01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:09,800 Speaker 1: their face and he goes who blaa, and he was 1402 01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:13,760 Speaker 1: going and I thought like Wow, that's crazy. That's so crazy, 1403 01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:17,400 Speaker 1: you know, that's so cathartic. And I'd love to try that, 1404 01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:19,880 Speaker 1: you know. So last year when I went on the road, Um, 1405 01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:22,760 Speaker 1: I did it. I started my show with that wo 1406 01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:26,200 Speaker 1: wow wow, you know. And I guess that there are 1407 01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:28,439 Speaker 1: there are blessings and curses to having a musician heavy 1408 01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:30,760 Speaker 1: firm base, but one of the blessings is that those 1409 01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:34,600 Speaker 1: guys can hold a key. And so when I realized this, 1410 01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:36,640 Speaker 1: that it was more than just like a corner response 1411 01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:38,400 Speaker 1: with one line. It became much more of a thing 1412 01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:41,520 Speaker 1: of like at the end of each concept, after the encore, 1413 01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:42,720 Speaker 1: I would stand at the front of the stage with 1414 01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:45,080 Speaker 1: no instruments, and I would sing, and I would give 1415 01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:48,280 Speaker 1: people notes and I would say okay, and I wouldn't 1416 01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:50,080 Speaker 1: say a word, but I say, I point to say, 1417 01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:51,760 Speaker 1: one third of the room, and I go and there 1418 01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:55,240 Speaker 1: we go. And I point to another, you know, another third, 1419 01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:57,560 Speaker 1: and I say, and they go, and I pointed this 1420 01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:00,479 Speaker 1: god room. And then I wouldn't I wouldn't saying anything. 1421 01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:02,840 Speaker 1: I would use my fingers up and down and the 1422 01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:06,720 Speaker 1: notes would move and the harmonies would change, and people 1423 01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:09,200 Speaker 1: I think people really really kind of responded to that, 1424 01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:10,760 Speaker 1: and for me, it was like, I give me such 1425 01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:13,000 Speaker 1: such a crazy feeling, and it's like a you know, 1426 01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,680 Speaker 1: I felt massive and tiny at the same time because 1427 01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:19,120 Speaker 1: I wasn't doing anything, but they were doing everything. But 1428 01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:21,080 Speaker 1: somehow I was kind of I was guiding them there. 1429 01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,680 Speaker 1: So I was hooked. I was completely hooked on that. 1430 01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:26,160 Speaker 1: And since then, I've done all sorts of crazy stuff. 1431 01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:28,600 Speaker 1: I've got people doing some rhythms and I've got people 1432 01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:31,400 Speaker 1: seeing a different stuff. And and honestly, I think the 1433 01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:33,760 Speaker 1: important thing with that is is far less the musicianship. 1434 01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:35,320 Speaker 1: It's more just that it's like a sais of humor. 1435 01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:38,360 Speaker 1: I guess that that people that people respond to and 1436 01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:40,360 Speaker 1: a sense of ease. It's like it's almost like I'm 1437 01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:42,600 Speaker 1: giving people license to be who they are rather than 1438 01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:45,400 Speaker 1: who they need to be by saying just just saying 1439 01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:47,880 Speaker 1: just just go there, just like just step across the line. 1440 01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:51,360 Speaker 1: You're welcome, like you're welcome in my space. And and 1441 01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:53,560 Speaker 1: and that to me is if there's anything I guess 1442 01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:56,120 Speaker 1: I guess I hope to inspire by by the show. 1443 01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:58,920 Speaker 1: It's like it's that feeling that you're invited. It's like 1444 01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:01,760 Speaker 1: this is not an exclusive thing. You don't have to 1445 01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:04,440 Speaker 1: be anything, you don't have to feel or like anything. 1446 01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:07,080 Speaker 1: You just need to be present and will make music together. 1447 01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:09,760 Speaker 1: You know. Well, when I saw the last tour in 1448 01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:13,120 Speaker 1: l a uh, and I saw the things you're talking about. 1449 01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:16,959 Speaker 1: The people didn't look like musicians. There were musicians there, 1450 01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:20,520 Speaker 1: Herbie was there, you know, Steve I, etcetera. But the 1451 01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:23,680 Speaker 1: people that on the floor, they were fans of you, 1452 01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:26,400 Speaker 1: just like they would be fans of somebody else. So 1453 01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:28,280 Speaker 1: this is the thing, this is the this is the 1454 01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:34,240 Speaker 1: magical thing. I think. It's like I think everyone's a musician, 1455 01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:36,840 Speaker 1: that that's the thing, because I think music is just 1456 01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:40,640 Speaker 1: completely fundamental to being a person. And so all you 1457 01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:42,520 Speaker 1: need is to give someone license. You don't need to 1458 01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:45,000 Speaker 1: give someone skill. And I think that if you give 1459 01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:46,800 Speaker 1: someone license to be a part of something that they 1460 01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:49,920 Speaker 1: will And so yeah, I've I've definitely noticed that it 1461 01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:51,720 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be musicians who sing. But it's it's 1462 01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:53,760 Speaker 1: the energy that's the special thing. It's not oh yeah, 1463 01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:55,120 Speaker 1: you're out of tune. No no you're not. You're not 1464 01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:57,680 Speaker 1: you're not welcome here. It's more like, you know, if 1465 01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:00,600 Speaker 1: you're a musician, then then you'll carry the the non musicians. 1466 01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:02,720 Speaker 1: If you're a non musician, then you'll carry the people 1467 01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:05,440 Speaker 1: who aren't singing. And there's a sense of community about 1468 01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:08,840 Speaker 1: it and a sense of unearthing a a primal energy 1469 01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:11,280 Speaker 1: which I've I've loved and I honestly I've been bowled 1470 01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:15,200 Speaker 1: over by by by how far it's come away from 1471 01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:18,280 Speaker 1: the musicians thing and how much it just becomes more 1472 01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:20,920 Speaker 1: of a kind of experience that anyone can have. Okay, 1473 01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:27,720 Speaker 1: so why the name Jesse? Why four albums? Because music 1474 01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:30,400 Speaker 1: history is littered with people say, oh, this is a series, 1475 01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:32,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do X number and they never complete it. 1476 01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:36,720 Speaker 1: And you're also kind of boxing yourself into the concept. 1477 01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:39,080 Speaker 1: So can you talk about that? Yeah, you're absolutely right. 1478 01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:41,560 Speaker 1: A lot of my friends call me j C. It's 1479 01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:43,480 Speaker 1: just like a nickname I've had for a decade or so, 1480 01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:45,360 Speaker 1: and I quite like it, so I've I've adopted it 1481 01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,200 Speaker 1: a little bit, like Hey Jay, see this, Jay, see that? 1482 01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:51,440 Speaker 1: And this album. It's a kind of it's a kind 1483 01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:55,080 Speaker 1: of self titled exploration, I suppose, but it's not really Jacob. 1484 01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:57,240 Speaker 1: It's not like Jacob Collio or anything like that. I 1485 01:05:57,280 --> 01:05:59,919 Speaker 1: wanted to found a sort of spirit at the center 1486 01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:02,600 Speaker 1: of it, which encapsulated some of the values I've been mentioning. 1487 01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:05,320 Speaker 1: But it's like, you know, you set someone free in 1488 01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:07,440 Speaker 1: a world where everything, anything is possible. It's like the 1489 01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:10,680 Speaker 1: infinite child embodied in a character. Jesse is the character 1490 01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:13,160 Speaker 1: really so so you know, at first I thought I 1491 01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:17,160 Speaker 1: could call it, you know, worlds or ecosystems or and 1492 01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:18,680 Speaker 1: all this stime. I was like, that's not it, that's 1493 01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:20,800 Speaker 1: not something else is going on here. I'm bringing something 1494 01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:23,200 Speaker 1: to life here that's a part of me in some ways, 1495 01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:25,440 Speaker 1: and it's also something I don't yet understand. So so 1496 01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:29,440 Speaker 1: Jesse became that that figure for me. Essentially, Um started 1497 01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:32,360 Speaker 1: as one album, a massive album, spilled over into a 1498 01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:34,680 Speaker 1: double album when I realized that I actually had more 1499 01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:36,880 Speaker 1: to say, and then I realized that a double album 1500 01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:39,920 Speaker 1: would be so compressed in terms of like everything I 1501 01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:41,400 Speaker 1: was trying to say with it, which is so much. 1502 01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:43,240 Speaker 1: So it became three albums. It was three albums for 1503 01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:45,240 Speaker 1: a quite a long time. So you've got the big 1504 01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:47,560 Speaker 1: acoustic space for in one, small acouse space Forlume two, 1505 01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:49,240 Speaker 1: and then the kind of negative space Volume three and 1506 01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:52,040 Speaker 1: four that is great, terrific. I've got a concept, and 1507 01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:53,920 Speaker 1: I realized that that's not complete, because you need to 1508 01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:56,360 Speaker 1: come back to where you started to be a good storyteller, 1509 01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,480 Speaker 1: and so it's borning. Before I've always kind of held 1510 01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:02,040 Speaker 1: as the space which would somehow bring the concepts and 1511 01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:04,760 Speaker 1: the flavors together with which it is doing. And it's 1512 01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:07,400 Speaker 1: not finished yet, but it's it's quite crazily exciting, so 1513 01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:10,040 Speaker 1: I guess it. It evolved slowly but surely, and I 1514 01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:12,360 Speaker 1: planned out not what the music would sound like, but 1515 01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:14,600 Speaker 1: what the music would feel like. And I knew the 1516 01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:16,560 Speaker 1: Volume three would get weird, and I knew it would 1517 01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:18,800 Speaker 1: get dancing and poppy, and I knew the Volume two 1518 01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:20,480 Speaker 1: would be a bit lighter to the touch, and it 1519 01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:22,600 Speaker 1: would be a bit more sensitive, and it would, you know, 1520 01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:24,040 Speaker 1: it would feel a certain way. And I knew Volume 1521 01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:26,240 Speaker 1: one would need to be expansive and broad, and I 1522 01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:28,479 Speaker 1: knew I wanted to call up some musicians I respect 1523 01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:29,880 Speaker 1: them and get their help on this because I couldn't 1524 01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:32,560 Speaker 1: do it alone. And so littered across the albums are 1525 01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:34,320 Speaker 1: so many musicians that I love and respect, from the 1526 01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:38,360 Speaker 1: metropol Orchest and and and Lauren Vola to Steve Via 1527 01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:41,080 Speaker 1: to Liella Havas and Dody and Austin Gari sam amed 1528 01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:43,120 Speaker 1: On and then with Volume three, you've got you know, 1529 01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:45,520 Speaker 1: Keyana La Day and Mahalia Tyed Dolla Sign and you've 1530 01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:49,440 Speaker 1: got Tory Kelly and Jesse Rays and t Pain and 1531 01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:52,480 Speaker 1: and and Daniel Caesar And I think for me, these 1532 01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:54,800 Speaker 1: are all different. There's so many different kinds of flavors. 1533 01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:57,080 Speaker 1: And that was always the goal. As I mentioned, that 1534 01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:58,440 Speaker 1: was always the goal was to do something that was 1535 01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:01,520 Speaker 1: somehow collaborative. But you know, I'm producing the album on 1536 01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:03,480 Speaker 1: my own. I'm sitting in the same chair I've kind 1537 01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:05,760 Speaker 1: of always sat in, and so something about that for me, 1538 01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,600 Speaker 1: it's nice. It feels like I'm stretching something that I 1539 01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:10,440 Speaker 1: understand already, a bit like how I learned the piano. 1540 01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:12,080 Speaker 1: So I'll take something I kind of know a bit 1541 01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:14,160 Speaker 1: and I'll drop myself in the deep end of what 1542 01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:16,320 Speaker 1: that is, and I'll just try and get as deep 1543 01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:17,920 Speaker 1: into it as I can and and just like have 1544 01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:19,760 Speaker 1: have a bunch of fun and just so see where 1545 01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:25,320 Speaker 1: it ends up. Okay, But the albums are recorded sequentially, yeah, 1546 01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:27,360 Speaker 1: to a point. I mean when I was getting started, 1547 01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:29,280 Speaker 1: I would jump between them all the time. You'd be like, oh, 1548 01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:30,559 Speaker 1: I'm feeling of vol in three. Day to day, I'm 1549 01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:32,320 Speaker 1: gonna do something weird, or I'm feeling a gentle day. 1550 01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:35,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna vollowing two song today, but voling one. I 1551 01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:37,439 Speaker 1: did fast because I had a flight, a book to flight. 1552 01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:38,920 Speaker 1: It's always the best way to set a deadline. I 1553 01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:40,680 Speaker 1: find this book of Flight. I had a flight to 1554 01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:43,040 Speaker 1: Holland to record the thing, and so I had four 1555 01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:45,840 Speaker 1: weeks to write and like write an orchestra and arrange 1556 01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:48,120 Speaker 1: all of the orchestra parts for an entire album, And 1557 01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:51,560 Speaker 1: so I did it. In January, flew over recorded the album, 1558 01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:53,320 Speaker 1: and after that I hoped between two and three for 1559 01:08:53,360 --> 01:08:55,400 Speaker 1: a while. I did a bunch of work on three, 1560 01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:56,519 Speaker 1: and then I said it came back to two, and 1561 01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:58,160 Speaker 1: then I finished two and released that one last year, 1562 01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:01,160 Speaker 1: and then Volume three. At that point it was like 1563 01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:03,719 Speaker 1: forty demos or something like those, and those of different ideas, 1564 01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:07,320 Speaker 1: lots of little seeds of experiments and things, and and 1565 01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:10,080 Speaker 1: even right up until about about a week before I 1566 01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:11,680 Speaker 1: delivered the album, the album was a lot longer than 1567 01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:13,559 Speaker 1: it than it is now. The album now has twelve songs, 1568 01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:16,080 Speaker 1: but up until a few days before it was about eighteen, 1569 01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:19,639 Speaker 1: um but I realized that I think it was important 1570 01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:21,400 Speaker 1: for me to learn how to call that statement into 1571 01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:24,760 Speaker 1: something that felt a little bit more cohesive. Um And 1572 01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:26,240 Speaker 1: so yeah, now what I've got to work on his 1573 01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:28,519 Speaker 1: volume four, which is a bit weird, but I guess 1574 01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:30,719 Speaker 1: you know, Volume four in some ways is the combination 1575 01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:33,320 Speaker 1: of all the different flavors. But yeah, I've hot between 1576 01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:36,040 Speaker 1: the universes a bunch throughout the creation process. Okay, some 1577 01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:39,599 Speaker 1: of these people are household names, certainly in the Spotify world, 1578 01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:43,920 Speaker 1: Spotify top fifty, etcetera. Did you call these people call? 1579 01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:46,679 Speaker 1: Did you have a previous relationship? I mean some people 1580 01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:50,160 Speaker 1: are jazz rap, Tori Kelly's, you know, pop singer. How 1581 01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:52,760 Speaker 1: do you established relationships with all these people such as 1582 01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:55,839 Speaker 1: they'll work with you? Well, I guess being a musician 1583 01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:59,280 Speaker 1: in the twenty one century, um me, it has has 1584 01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:01,040 Speaker 1: its benefits. And one of those is that it's it's 1585 01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:03,760 Speaker 1: easy to to reach other musicians. And I guess I've 1586 01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:07,040 Speaker 1: always felt that to an extent that the majority of 1587 01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:09,120 Speaker 1: the people I reached out to, you know, I had 1588 01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:10,720 Speaker 1: some kind of relationship, whether it's like you know, we 1589 01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:13,200 Speaker 1: just we we follow each other, or we've messaged a 1590 01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:15,960 Speaker 1: little bit, or we've had a session or two together before. 1591 01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:18,800 Speaker 1: So someone like Tied all a sign for example, you know, 1592 01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:20,960 Speaker 1: Tie hit me up on maybe it's on Twitter or 1593 01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:23,559 Speaker 1: on Instagram about three years ago, and it was just 1594 01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:25,320 Speaker 1: it was just, you know, really excited about but working 1595 01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:26,920 Speaker 1: together on something. And so I've done a bunch of 1596 01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:28,760 Speaker 1: work for him, and I've I've been on a few 1597 01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:30,720 Speaker 1: songs of his and I always knew I wanted to 1598 01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:32,080 Speaker 1: get him on something, but I didn't know when that 1599 01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:34,080 Speaker 1: would be. And so you know, I sent him a 1600 01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:35,960 Speaker 1: message or I faced time with him or something. I said, hey, 1601 01:10:36,479 --> 01:10:39,160 Speaker 1: you know, I've got a song and Majley is singing 1602 01:10:39,160 --> 01:10:41,680 Speaker 1: on it and it's pretty much finished, but it's it's 1603 01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:44,200 Speaker 1: missing some some secret source. It's it's missing some dollar 1604 01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:48,439 Speaker 1: sign magic. And he he that's This particular example was 1605 01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:51,120 Speaker 1: it was very gratifying because he he had a bunch 1606 01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:53,280 Speaker 1: of stuff planned, but he moved everything out of his calendar. 1607 01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:55,280 Speaker 1: He sat for a whole day and sang all this 1608 01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:58,200 Speaker 1: crazy stuff and and he was so excited. I think 1609 01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,240 Speaker 1: it was very energized by by the music because I think, 1610 01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:03,880 Speaker 1: you know, he's such a dominating force tire. You know, 1611 01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:08,440 Speaker 1: he's featured on everyone's albums. He's just a massive, dominating, 1612 01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:12,160 Speaker 1: kind of influential voice that's instantly recognizable a list guy. 1613 01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:14,680 Speaker 1: And I think that maybe what he found refreshing, at 1614 01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:16,200 Speaker 1: least what he said he found refreshing about all I 1615 01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:17,439 Speaker 1: need was that it wasn't trying to be any of 1616 01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:19,400 Speaker 1: those things. It was just a song. And also he 1617 01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:21,759 Speaker 1: could use his ears because his ears are crazy. Actually, 1618 01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:23,920 Speaker 1: he can hear all sorts of crazy stuff and has 1619 01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:27,360 Speaker 1: all sorts of musical intuitions and ideas which I think 1620 01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:30,000 Speaker 1: are amazing, and I think he he often feels like 1621 01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:32,040 Speaker 1: he can't use them, and so I think he got 1622 01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:34,720 Speaker 1: very excited, almost overly excited, and he sent me so 1623 01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:37,400 Speaker 1: many tracks of him doing crazy you know, auto tune 1624 01:11:37,479 --> 01:11:39,719 Speaker 1: riffs and stuff, and it was it was profoundly amazing. 1625 01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:42,600 Speaker 1: And so I use a small percentage of that um 1626 01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:45,080 Speaker 1: in the song. But most people were like that, you know, 1627 01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:47,080 Speaker 1: we've had we've had a connection. I'll send a d M. 1628 01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:48,800 Speaker 1: Occasional I would call out to someone called, like I 1629 01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:51,120 Speaker 1: did that with with Kiana, for example. I've never I've 1630 01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:53,519 Speaker 1: never met Kiana, had contact with her, but you know, 1631 01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:55,320 Speaker 1: I sent I sent her a song. I sent her 1632 01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:57,200 Speaker 1: the song on on a d M. And management then 1633 01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:59,720 Speaker 1: reached out to and and she said, God, I love this, 1634 01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:02,400 Speaker 1: Let's do it. And that was really that was really 1635 01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:04,400 Speaker 1: gratifying foot for me. And I've been giving a list 1636 01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:06,360 Speaker 1: of people that I respect the heck out of and 1637 01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:08,080 Speaker 1: I've wanted to work with for for a long long time. 1638 01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:10,200 Speaker 1: And so I think part of this project was thinking, 1639 01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:12,680 Speaker 1: how how can I make this person a part of 1640 01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:15,200 Speaker 1: this project? And at what point in the journey should 1641 01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:17,120 Speaker 1: would they most apply? You know? And then how do 1642 01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:19,639 Speaker 1: I build a bridge from my world into their world 1643 01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:21,240 Speaker 1: and kind of make it makes sense? And I like, 1644 01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:23,599 Speaker 1: you know what, what what can I learn from that? Okay? 1645 01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:26,760 Speaker 1: The coverage your famous for are from a different era, 1646 01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:31,160 Speaker 1: you know, it's you're you're pulling from Stevie Wonders albums 1647 01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:34,320 Speaker 1: in the seventies, you know, the early eighties Lion or 1648 01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:38,200 Speaker 1: Richie All Night, Long Moon River, which is older than that. 1649 01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:42,080 Speaker 1: Uh A, how do you decide what songs to cover? 1650 01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:45,519 Speaker 1: B What do you think about those songs which are 1651 01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:50,360 Speaker 1: all visa V what is popular today? Great question? Well 1652 01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:52,040 Speaker 1: as far as what's my criteria? For how do I 1653 01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:54,360 Speaker 1: decide it song to arrange. It's kind of simple. I 1654 01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:55,720 Speaker 1: just need to love it. I think I need to 1655 01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:57,400 Speaker 1: get excited about it and love it and think that 1656 01:12:57,439 --> 01:12:59,200 Speaker 1: there's something I can add to it in some way 1657 01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:01,479 Speaker 1: or the or the it would survive my reinvention. I 1658 01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:04,120 Speaker 1: guess I could say, um, And in answer to your 1659 01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:06,880 Speaker 1: latter question, I think that a lot of the music 1660 01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:12,000 Speaker 1: that was written, yeah, from seventies and back was was 1661 01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:15,679 Speaker 1: harmonically substantial. And it's it's a funny thing to say, 1662 01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:17,680 Speaker 1: but you know, you have someone like Stevie and his 1663 01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:20,080 Speaker 1: songwriting style was so rich musically, it was so much 1664 01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:21,880 Speaker 1: going on in the songs, but he was able to 1665 01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:23,439 Speaker 1: do it in such a way where like no one 1666 01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:26,639 Speaker 1: kind of batted an eyelid. It was like, yeah, you're 1667 01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:28,200 Speaker 1: welcome to just dance to the song. It's a great 1668 01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:30,719 Speaker 1: to you, but actually check out this modulate you know. So, 1669 01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:32,920 Speaker 1: so there's there was this multiple levels of his music. 1670 01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:36,400 Speaker 1: So if I if I kind of set my imagination 1671 01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:39,040 Speaker 1: loose on a song song of his, the possibilities are 1672 01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:41,200 Speaker 1: just endless because of all the choices he's made. The 1673 01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:43,080 Speaker 1: more kind of material there is in that to start 1674 01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:44,400 Speaker 1: with the more I can run with as a as 1675 01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:46,800 Speaker 1: an arranger of a song, so you know, and something 1676 01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:48,560 Speaker 1: like moon River. You know, it's not the mirror is 1677 01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:51,639 Speaker 1: crazily complex. It's actually a very simple tune. But something 1678 01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:54,200 Speaker 1: about the melody I've always loved and and you know, 1679 01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:56,000 Speaker 1: it's got a sense of structure, it's got a little 1680 01:13:56,080 --> 01:13:58,400 Speaker 1: ark to it, which I wanted to really kind of encapsulate. 1681 01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:00,720 Speaker 1: I wanted to stretch that. And it just has a 1682 01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:02,720 Speaker 1: lovely spirit to it, you know that that original, that 1683 01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:06,040 Speaker 1: original Mancini version. It's it's something really really lovely about it. Now, 1684 01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:08,479 Speaker 1: there's plenty of songs that are hip and popular right now, 1685 01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:11,479 Speaker 1: which I absolutely adore, kind of for other reasons because 1686 01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:12,880 Speaker 1: actually it's not often you hear a song on the 1687 01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:16,360 Speaker 1: radio nowadays that has chords in it, like, you know, 1688 01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:18,800 Speaker 1: like more than just kind of like Gore or or 1689 01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:21,639 Speaker 1: you know, it's like, actually, the harmony tells a story, 1690 01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:23,680 Speaker 1: and obviously I love that stuff. So I tend to 1691 01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:25,679 Speaker 1: be drawn to songs that tell those kinds of stories 1692 01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:27,240 Speaker 1: because I think that it inspires me to tell a 1693 01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:29,280 Speaker 1: bit more of my own. And what give us a 1694 01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:32,800 Speaker 1: couple of examples, Oh wow, um, you take someone like 1695 01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:36,680 Speaker 1: fascinating rhythm, uh, and that's a song that again it's 1696 01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:40,679 Speaker 1: quite simple, it's very repetitive. Um. But you know you've 1697 01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:42,720 Speaker 1: got you've got this thing that kind of twists and 1698 01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:46,200 Speaker 1: turns and it moves around these different these different spaces harmonically, 1699 01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:47,840 Speaker 1: and and it's catchy and it kind of stays in 1700 01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:50,040 Speaker 1: your mind. It has lots of energy built into it 1701 01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:51,920 Speaker 1: has a sense of humor. And I love that too 1702 01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:53,720 Speaker 1: because it really means you can play with it. And 1703 01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:56,040 Speaker 1: lots of words. So I take words and I put 1704 01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:57,439 Speaker 1: them in weird places and I flip them over and 1705 01:14:57,479 --> 01:14:58,920 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff, And that that's all really 1706 01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:01,559 Speaker 1: good from because, as I say, when you're arranging, it's 1707 01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:03,280 Speaker 1: just about like what do I have to work with it? Like, 1708 01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:05,479 Speaker 1: what are my materials? What can I what can I 1709 01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:09,080 Speaker 1: what can I add here? Um? And you know there 1710 01:15:09,120 --> 01:15:10,960 Speaker 1: there are there are people who are doing this today. 1711 01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:13,559 Speaker 1: But I think that in general today some of the 1712 01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:15,880 Speaker 1: some of my favorite music that's coming up today is 1713 01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:19,040 Speaker 1: appealing to me in terms of production above all else, 1714 01:15:19,120 --> 01:15:23,920 Speaker 1: Like the production shops of people these days is absolutely astounding, UM. 1715 01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:26,160 Speaker 1: And I think it can be a little detrimental to 1716 01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:30,000 Speaker 1: the music at times. We have a society at large, 1717 01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:32,960 Speaker 1: in my mind, which is very used to compression. And 1718 01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:35,240 Speaker 1: I say compression in a musical sense and a non 1719 01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:37,840 Speaker 1: musical sense. And I'll explain that when I say musical sense, 1720 01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:40,640 Speaker 1: compression just means that you decrease the dynamic range. So 1721 01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:42,320 Speaker 1: when a song goes on the radio, for example, it's 1722 01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:45,360 Speaker 1: very compressed, and you have all the quietest sounds made 1723 01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:46,840 Speaker 1: a lot louder so you can hear them, and all 1724 01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:48,840 Speaker 1: the louder sounds are made much quieter so that they 1725 01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:52,040 Speaker 1: are reasonable. And so you get these really flat wave forms, 1726 01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:54,040 Speaker 1: which is just and it comes out the radio and 1727 01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:55,840 Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, okay, I get it. I can listen 1728 01:15:55,840 --> 01:15:58,760 Speaker 1: to that background. It's not going to necessarily pull me in. 1729 01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:01,280 Speaker 1: It's not gonna pull me out or push me away 1730 01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:03,280 Speaker 1: or whatever. It's just it's like a flat wave form. Now, 1731 01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:06,240 Speaker 1: I think people, I think people do this. I think 1732 01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:09,160 Speaker 1: education does this to people. I think it's like you 1733 01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:14,040 Speaker 1: go into an educational system uncompressed flak, you know, completely 1734 01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:18,719 Speaker 1: uncontained raw, and it's very easy to be worn down 1735 01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:21,679 Speaker 1: by the voices around us that say, actually it would 1736 01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:23,360 Speaker 1: be it would be much more reasonable if you just 1737 01:16:23,479 --> 01:16:25,280 Speaker 1: conformed here, or if you did it my way or 1738 01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:27,679 Speaker 1: this is the way it should be done, or or whatever, 1739 01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:29,360 Speaker 1: And I get it. You know, it's scary to have 1740 01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:32,120 Speaker 1: someone who's very creative in the world. It's like it's 1741 01:16:32,160 --> 01:16:35,240 Speaker 1: unruly and it's unpredictable and it's hard to control. But 1742 01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:37,559 Speaker 1: I think that what we're used to as a society, 1743 01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:40,040 Speaker 1: especially with in age of social media, is is compressing 1744 01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:43,360 Speaker 1: ourselves too into oblivion. You know, you think life is 1745 01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:46,600 Speaker 1: about extremes, it's not about it's not about what's on 1746 01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:49,160 Speaker 1: the surface all the time. Sometimes it is, but but 1747 01:16:49,280 --> 01:16:51,240 Speaker 1: life is about going all the way up and all 1748 01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:53,439 Speaker 1: the way down. And for me in my life anyway, 1749 01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:55,920 Speaker 1: those are the moments that are most colorful for me, 1750 01:16:55,960 --> 01:16:57,559 Speaker 1: and the moment I draw from as a creator the 1751 01:16:57,560 --> 01:17:00,679 Speaker 1: most too, you know, really low, really high, really big, 1752 01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:03,760 Speaker 1: and then the middle ground can be soft. It doesn't 1753 01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:06,080 Speaker 1: need to be everything. It's not like everything has to 1754 01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:08,160 Speaker 1: be in the middle distance. It's like that you can 1755 01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:11,040 Speaker 1: be foreground and you can be background. And and so 1756 01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:14,320 Speaker 1: what what overcompression does to our lives is it kind 1757 01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:17,559 Speaker 1: of defeats any kind of currency of threshold. You know, 1758 01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:21,599 Speaker 1: so all of our our worst impulses, our loudest thoughts, 1759 01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:26,519 Speaker 1: our biggest fears, are quickest, easiest shots of endorphins. Those 1760 01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:29,280 Speaker 1: rule us in that world, because those are the only 1761 01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:32,000 Speaker 1: things that even cut through their insane compression that that 1762 01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:33,800 Speaker 1: we've that we've come to do. You know, a lot 1763 01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:36,040 Speaker 1: of us don't really know about stillness. I certainly don't 1764 01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:38,240 Speaker 1: know about stillness. I think that there's so much to 1765 01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:41,000 Speaker 1: learn from being dynamic and all that to say that, 1766 01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:45,120 Speaker 1: I think what music is becoming now is thrilling and 1767 01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:47,559 Speaker 1: infinite in some ways. And I think that's what's cool, 1768 01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:49,880 Speaker 1: is to seeing people mix hounds together, mix flavors together, 1769 01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:52,840 Speaker 1: collaborate across disciplines, you know, which is amazing. But it 1770 01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:57,160 Speaker 1: has the danger of losing a kind of delicacy, a humanity, 1771 01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:02,160 Speaker 1: um of of letting you in rather than kind of 1772 01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:04,320 Speaker 1: stressing you out. And I think that we live in 1773 01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:07,439 Speaker 1: quite stressed out space. And so I guess what I'd 1774 01:18:07,439 --> 01:18:11,720 Speaker 1: hope for is a world where music can be sensitive, 1775 01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:13,400 Speaker 1: like deeply sensitive. And that's not to say it has 1776 01:18:13,400 --> 01:18:16,200 Speaker 1: to be simple, but you can have sensitive, rich complex 1777 01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:19,559 Speaker 1: music as much as you can have sensitive, simple, open music, 1778 01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:21,519 Speaker 1: and I think both have a very important role to 1779 01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:24,559 Speaker 1: play in the world. Okay, in today's streaming world, the 1780 01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:28,479 Speaker 1: history of music is available on the streaming services. So 1781 01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:31,519 Speaker 1: you have all these genres, the acolytes of those genres 1782 01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:34,479 Speaker 1: can be listening to that just that, But there is 1783 01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:38,080 Speaker 1: a top fifty which is really dominated by hip hop. 1784 01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:41,160 Speaker 1: So I have two questions for you. One, to what 1785 01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:44,240 Speaker 1: degree are you a fan of hip hop? Too? To 1786 01:18:44,439 --> 01:18:47,360 Speaker 1: what degree are you a student of the charts, the 1787 01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:50,400 Speaker 1: radio and what people are listening to? Great great questions. 1788 01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:54,120 Speaker 1: I am indeed a fine of hip hop. I listened 1789 01:18:54,120 --> 01:18:56,960 Speaker 1: to hip hop, probably in a different way to the 1790 01:18:57,000 --> 01:18:59,000 Speaker 1: way that someone who wasn't a musician would listen to it. 1791 01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:02,439 Speaker 1: You know, I listened to it for for for for 1792 01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:04,080 Speaker 1: groove a lot of the time. Like you know, you 1793 01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:06,560 Speaker 1: take Dealer for example, and you think, yeah, like you 1794 01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:10,040 Speaker 1: Dilla didn't really chart particularly and he didn't really he 1795 01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:12,439 Speaker 1: wasn't really at a household name, but he completely kind 1796 01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:17,160 Speaker 1: of he completely unbuilt hip hop and rebuilt it single handedly, 1797 01:19:17,240 --> 01:19:21,000 Speaker 1: like he granually re reimagined what that could be. And 1798 01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:23,599 Speaker 1: you know what he did that made that possible was 1799 01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:26,599 Speaker 1: he turned the quantized button off on his NPC three thousand, 1800 01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:29,920 Speaker 1: which is like revolutionary, and the quantize button is what 1801 01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:32,280 Speaker 1: had been switched on in the popular music since basically, 1802 01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:34,840 Speaker 1: which is the thing that drum machines inspired, which is 1803 01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:36,960 Speaker 1: like everything's grid based. Do do do do do? Everything 1804 01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:40,040 Speaker 1: is in a row, everything's the same size, And Diler 1805 01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:41,960 Speaker 1: was like, no, no, turn the contents button off and 1806 01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:44,920 Speaker 1: you get these sloppy grooves that go not like do 1807 01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:51,400 Speaker 1: but like there's like a science to that of like 1808 01:19:51,439 --> 01:19:53,559 Speaker 1: how to get that to feel the best. So when 1809 01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:55,080 Speaker 1: I listened to hip hop a lot of time, I'm 1810 01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:57,120 Speaker 1: really excited by that. But just because I'm a I'm 1811 01:19:57,120 --> 01:19:59,679 Speaker 1: a musician, but I also think that hip hop has 1812 01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:03,080 Speaker 1: has a kind of an ability to reach people in 1813 01:20:03,120 --> 01:20:06,080 Speaker 1: their power and to appeal to people's power and energy 1814 01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:07,760 Speaker 1: in a way that other kinds of music just kind 1815 01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:09,960 Speaker 1: of don't like it. It It kind of takes space in 1816 01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:12,400 Speaker 1: a way that I find really inspiring. It's like it's 1817 01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:14,920 Speaker 1: it's almost like a it's like a light. It's like 1818 01:20:15,520 --> 01:20:17,320 Speaker 1: I've got something to say, I've got something to show, 1819 01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:20,000 Speaker 1: and I can I can do that in so many 1820 01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:22,479 Speaker 1: different ways that for me as a musician kind of 1821 01:20:22,479 --> 01:20:25,040 Speaker 1: often blow my mind because I think I think about, 1822 01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:26,280 Speaker 1: you know, how do I tell a story in terms 1823 01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:29,000 Speaker 1: of music? But these the story the story is telling. 1824 01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:31,479 Speaker 1: Styles are much broader in hip hop. You know, you've 1825 01:20:31,479 --> 01:20:34,920 Speaker 1: got people being poets and and using ryme for reason, 1826 01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:38,240 Speaker 1: and you've got someone like Kendrick who's who's combining all 1827 01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:40,080 Speaker 1: these forces. And as you can imagine, I'm a huge 1828 01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:42,240 Speaker 1: Kendrick fan, and I love what he did with Butterfly, 1829 01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:46,200 Speaker 1: and and I love how he how he transformed just 1830 01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:48,080 Speaker 1: what that could be like, what what that could really 1831 01:20:48,200 --> 01:20:50,439 Speaker 1: what that could really do for the world. As far 1832 01:20:50,479 --> 01:20:52,840 Speaker 1: as whether I'm a student of the charts or not, 1833 01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:55,760 Speaker 1: I don't think I described myself as a student of 1834 01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:57,640 Speaker 1: the of the charts. I think it's interesting to hear 1835 01:20:57,680 --> 01:21:01,200 Speaker 1: what's on them, partly because I I it helps me 1836 01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:04,519 Speaker 1: learn what is acceptable, whether or not I choose to 1837 01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:07,280 Speaker 1: act on that um. And also I think it shows 1838 01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:10,200 Speaker 1: what's important at a particular time. And the charts always 1839 01:21:10,240 --> 01:21:12,559 Speaker 1: tend to show what kind of themes are dominating, what 1840 01:21:12,640 --> 01:21:15,559 Speaker 1: kind of style is dominating. And you know, one thing 1841 01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:18,960 Speaker 1: I've noticed dipping into the charts and often I guess 1842 01:21:18,960 --> 01:21:20,600 Speaker 1: it's a side point that my main experience of the 1843 01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:22,800 Speaker 1: charts is like taking Uber's, which obviously haven't done much 1844 01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:25,680 Speaker 1: this year. But I don't sit here at home I 1845 01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:27,880 Speaker 1: listened to to Top fifty ever, I I just don't. 1846 01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:29,880 Speaker 1: I don't just don't do it unless someone says, have 1847 01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:31,320 Speaker 1: you checked out this new song, and I'll say, oh, 1848 01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:32,720 Speaker 1: I haven't. Let me listen to it, see what it 1849 01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:34,920 Speaker 1: sounds like. But when I jump in an uber, I'm 1850 01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:36,880 Speaker 1: always like, Okay, this is this is how it is 1851 01:21:36,960 --> 01:21:39,920 Speaker 1: not right now, and I think that it's it's very interesting, 1852 01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:43,280 Speaker 1: but often quite joyless. That's what I've noticed. There's there's 1853 01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:46,519 Speaker 1: not a lot of optimism. It seems of genuine joy 1854 01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:50,360 Speaker 1: and things that just shine, you know, and you know, 1855 01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:52,439 Speaker 1: you you take a band like like cold Play, for example, 1856 01:21:52,520 --> 01:21:54,280 Speaker 1: who What Who I Love, and you think something about 1857 01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:56,840 Speaker 1: company is actually very joyous, it's very hope giving, and 1858 01:21:56,880 --> 01:21:59,360 Speaker 1: I think I respond to that in a non musical level. 1859 01:21:59,400 --> 01:22:01,160 Speaker 1: I think I shape that and I respond to the 1860 01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:03,400 Speaker 1: fact that that has a place in the world. And 1861 01:22:03,479 --> 01:22:06,920 Speaker 1: so I guess when I listened to the charts, I'm 1862 01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:09,000 Speaker 1: listening on on on on a few different levels. And 1863 01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:11,240 Speaker 1: it's always interesting to know who's who's in the charts. 1864 01:22:11,240 --> 01:22:13,080 Speaker 1: But I think for me, I'm always excited when I 1865 01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:16,360 Speaker 1: feel like something shines through, when something has has an 1866 01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:18,519 Speaker 1: impact on me. And and sometimes those things are like 1867 01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:21,200 Speaker 1: the grime ist, poppyist, hardest hitting things ever, because those 1868 01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:23,600 Speaker 1: things are badass, and sometimes it's something that's kind of 1869 01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:25,599 Speaker 1: unexpected that makes it up. Then you think, wow, that 1870 01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:28,280 Speaker 1: really tells a story. But I don't have any particular criteria, 1871 01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:31,120 Speaker 1: like I don't. I don't see reason to expect to 1872 01:22:31,160 --> 01:22:33,720 Speaker 1: be moved more by what's on the charts, say then 1873 01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:36,559 Speaker 1: what's on some other list of music. But it's always 1874 01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:39,120 Speaker 1: interesting to know, like what what's in people's conscious and 1875 01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:42,600 Speaker 1: heart hearts and minds. Okay, so you were nominated for 1876 01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:45,840 Speaker 1: Album of the Year needles to say many people were 1877 01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:51,000 Speaker 1: unaware of you. What has been your experience of denomination 1878 01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:54,960 Speaker 1: m Um, Well, after the sort of flabbergastedness which you 1879 01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:59,519 Speaker 1: could probably imagine, which which is still going and it's 1880 01:22:59,560 --> 01:23:01,760 Speaker 1: taken to weeks for me to even see it really 1881 01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:03,920 Speaker 1: because it's it was just it's it's overwhelming and crazy 1882 01:23:03,960 --> 01:23:08,920 Speaker 1: and immensely gratifying and strange. Um. I think it's been 1883 01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:12,640 Speaker 1: interesting seeing the dialogue around it from a distance, and 1884 01:23:12,680 --> 01:23:14,960 Speaker 1: I haven't engaged massively with it because in some ways 1885 01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:17,200 Speaker 1: it's like not my business, because my business is to 1886 01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:20,599 Speaker 1: make the music. But um, you know, I I completely 1887 01:23:20,680 --> 01:23:24,520 Speaker 1: understand the people are very surprised and very confused, and 1888 01:23:24,520 --> 01:23:27,759 Speaker 1: and I also I also understand that there are people, 1889 01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:30,679 Speaker 1: for example, like The Weekend and like Garga who absolute 1890 01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:34,360 Speaker 1: giants and people I massively respect who people would have 1891 01:23:34,400 --> 01:23:36,880 Speaker 1: expected to get that nomination or that you know, the 1892 01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:39,759 Speaker 1: to to be to be acknowledged in that sense because 1893 01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:43,080 Speaker 1: of what they represent in the music industry. Um, I've 1894 01:23:43,120 --> 01:23:47,160 Speaker 1: also experienced a kind of a real deep surge of 1895 01:23:48,040 --> 01:23:50,720 Speaker 1: support from from the musicians community, you know, friends of 1896 01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:53,160 Speaker 1: mine and people I've made connections with over the last 1897 01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:55,120 Speaker 1: five years. And I think that there's a real excitement 1898 01:23:55,200 --> 01:23:58,680 Speaker 1: that that it's possible to to kind of create for 1899 01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:02,000 Speaker 1: the sake of creation, but to be held in whatever 1900 01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:04,639 Speaker 1: esteem you know, that particular nomination means. And it's crazy 1901 01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:06,840 Speaker 1: to sit, you know, next to Taylor and next to 1902 01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:09,680 Speaker 1: Dour and next the Post and Chris Martin and the 1903 01:24:09,720 --> 01:24:11,720 Speaker 1: Gang and everyone in that in that category and to 1904 01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:15,479 Speaker 1: feel like I don't maybe need to apologize for who 1905 01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:16,960 Speaker 1: I am and what I'm what I'm doing, and that's 1906 01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:20,920 Speaker 1: a kind of interesting feeling. But you know, I guess 1907 01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:23,360 Speaker 1: I've been I've been taking it day by day and 1908 01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:25,200 Speaker 1: and I think what strikes me about the Grammys, which 1909 01:24:25,240 --> 01:24:27,200 Speaker 1: I which I really love, is that it was founded 1910 01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:30,040 Speaker 1: by musicians and it's voted on by musicians, and that 1911 01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:32,599 Speaker 1: sets it apart, I guess from a lot of other awards, 1912 01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:35,559 Speaker 1: take the am As for example. You know the Grammy, 1913 01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:37,559 Speaker 1: you have to have a I think it's two credits 1914 01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:42,160 Speaker 1: on in a creative sense, on you know, a piece 1915 01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:44,880 Speaker 1: of recorded music that's been published to have a voice 1916 01:24:44,880 --> 01:24:46,280 Speaker 1: in the Grammys. And so I think something about the 1917 01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:49,760 Speaker 1: Grammys it is quite pure in a sense that you know, 1918 01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:54,360 Speaker 1: it should feel like whatever the music is should be 1919 01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:57,240 Speaker 1: pitted equally against whatever the other music is, not because 1920 01:24:57,240 --> 01:24:58,880 Speaker 1: of what the music represents, but just because of what 1921 01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:01,800 Speaker 1: it sounds like. And man, I just didn't see it 1922 01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:05,680 Speaker 1: coming at all. But I'm immensely gratified that somehow, you know, 1923 01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:08,799 Speaker 1: this part of my my musical journey, as it's continuing, 1924 01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:11,439 Speaker 1: as it's growing, can be can be recognized and can 1925 01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:15,880 Speaker 1: can get that nod. Okay, It's one thing to labor 1926 01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:21,559 Speaker 1: in obscurity or off away from the spotlight. Many people, 1927 01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:26,720 Speaker 1: once the spotlight is upon them, they become inhibited. Uh, 1928 01:25:26,840 --> 01:25:29,000 Speaker 1: they try to live up a standard there. You know, 1929 01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:32,320 Speaker 1: the landscape is littered with people did something great, they 1930 01:25:32,360 --> 01:25:35,600 Speaker 1: got universal acceptance. Could never equal that again. So to 1931 01:25:35,720 --> 01:25:39,880 Speaker 1: what degree do you believe already or is it in 1932 01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:45,280 Speaker 1: your mind use a negative word that this might be crippling. Yeah, 1933 01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:48,280 Speaker 1: so I've thought about this very much. Actually, I'm not 1934 01:25:48,360 --> 01:25:52,200 Speaker 1: worried because I think that I've been very clear with 1935 01:25:52,240 --> 01:25:55,400 Speaker 1: myself about why I'm doing this, and I think it 1936 01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:59,320 Speaker 1: would be crippling. It will be crippling. The expectations at 1937 01:25:59,320 --> 01:26:01,080 Speaker 1: this point in my careup crippling if I planned it, 1938 01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:03,200 Speaker 1: you know, if i'd have if I had a campaign, 1939 01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:05,200 Speaker 1: if I spent millions of dollars on every music video 1940 01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:07,479 Speaker 1: because I knew that what I really needed was an 1941 01:26:07,479 --> 01:26:10,040 Speaker 1: Album of the Year nomination or Album of the Year 1942 01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:13,320 Speaker 1: win or whatever. I think if I'd set out to 1943 01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:16,559 Speaker 1: do that. Honestly, it's completely valid to to want that 1944 01:26:16,640 --> 01:26:19,639 Speaker 1: and to strive or something like that, but it's it's 1945 01:26:19,640 --> 01:26:22,040 Speaker 1: never been my thing, and so I think the reason 1946 01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:24,960 Speaker 1: I feel safe in a sense creatively is because I've 1947 01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:27,559 Speaker 1: got more ideas than I have time for, and I 1948 01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:30,040 Speaker 1: think if there's anything this might kind of buy me, 1949 01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:32,920 Speaker 1: it's it's it's time in a sense. It's like time 1950 01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:35,200 Speaker 1: where I can be I can do things on my 1951 01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:37,599 Speaker 1: own terms for longer, and that hasn't led me wrong 1952 01:26:37,640 --> 01:26:40,680 Speaker 1: thus far, and so I think that I think I'll 1953 01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:42,599 Speaker 1: only really know what it feels like over the course 1954 01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:44,320 Speaker 1: of over the next few months. And I can't say 1955 01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:48,360 Speaker 1: anything for sure, but I think that it's it feels 1956 01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:52,439 Speaker 1: like a spotlight is on something which is not it's 1957 01:26:52,479 --> 01:26:54,479 Speaker 1: it's almost like it's on something that's outside my control. 1958 01:26:54,560 --> 01:26:56,800 Speaker 1: It's not something I even care to control per se. 1959 01:26:57,120 --> 01:26:59,760 Speaker 1: I don't think that the next album might create needs 1960 01:26:59,800 --> 01:27:03,040 Speaker 1: to equal the success of Jesse Volham three. I think 1961 01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:05,880 Speaker 1: it may surpass it or it may not, and I 1962 01:27:05,920 --> 01:27:07,479 Speaker 1: don't I don't mind too much because I think that 1963 01:27:07,760 --> 01:27:11,000 Speaker 1: what's exciting for me is just being able to to 1964 01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:13,839 Speaker 1: to make connections with people, and obviously the main excitement 1965 01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:15,960 Speaker 1: for me about the Grammy is that it's it's just 1966 01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:18,960 Speaker 1: so cool to be to be able to kind of 1967 01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:21,920 Speaker 1: communicate on that scale and for my statements to stand 1968 01:27:22,479 --> 01:27:25,160 Speaker 1: in in in that in that scale. But I somehow 1969 01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:28,240 Speaker 1: feel like if I'd done things in a rush, or 1970 01:27:28,280 --> 01:27:29,840 Speaker 1: if I had, you know, signed with Quincy on the 1971 01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:31,360 Speaker 1: day that he asked me to, or if I had 1972 01:27:31,760 --> 01:27:35,599 Speaker 1: compromised really in any in any way along my journey, 1973 01:27:36,280 --> 01:27:37,880 Speaker 1: I feel like this was all for something, like I 1974 01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:41,120 Speaker 1: was investing in something, some goal. But I don't feel 1975 01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:42,640 Speaker 1: like that. I don't feel like I've compromised, and I 1976 01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:44,479 Speaker 1: don't feel like there's a reason for it all to happen. 1977 01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:46,679 Speaker 1: So it almost feels like a bit of a bonus 1978 01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:50,040 Speaker 1: to a healthy process which has been going for a 1979 01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:53,360 Speaker 1: long time. And sure, there's definitely pressure, and there's definitely 1980 01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:56,320 Speaker 1: I mean that there's there's there's time pressure, there's energy pressure, 1981 01:27:56,439 --> 01:28:00,320 Speaker 1: and there's expectations. But I think in a certain kind 1982 01:28:00,320 --> 01:28:02,720 Speaker 1: of a way, I just trust. I just kind of 1983 01:28:02,760 --> 01:28:05,200 Speaker 1: trust it. I trust myself in it, and and I 1984 01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:09,559 Speaker 1: trust the right thing will happen. Okay, people think that 1985 01:28:11,240 --> 01:28:13,599 Speaker 1: musicians are only in it for the money. Certainly, Gene 1986 01:28:13,640 --> 01:28:16,960 Speaker 1: Simmons says that, but I've found a true artist wants 1987 01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:21,240 Speaker 1: more people to experience their art. Now that a door 1988 01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:26,920 Speaker 1: has opened and people are aware of you, and theoretically 1989 01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:29,160 Speaker 1: you could have a bigger peak, but this is pretty 1990 01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:32,080 Speaker 1: high up. There is there any desire to say I 1991 01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:34,719 Speaker 1: want to make a piece of music that will spread 1992 01:28:34,800 --> 01:28:39,960 Speaker 1: to more people? Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. I that could 1993 01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:41,800 Speaker 1: take so many forms that I'm not sure. I'm not 1994 01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:44,639 Speaker 1: sure how how I would answer that creatively. Yet I'll 1995 01:28:44,680 --> 01:28:46,920 Speaker 1: make it simple. Do you say, hey, I want to 1996 01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:51,439 Speaker 1: write a hit? Um? I did. I'm not sure I 1997 01:28:51,439 --> 01:28:52,760 Speaker 1: would say I want to write a hit. I'd love 1998 01:28:52,800 --> 01:28:54,840 Speaker 1: to write a song that reaches lots of people. I 1999 01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:57,640 Speaker 1: guess that maybe that's a hit, but I think that 2000 01:28:57,720 --> 01:28:59,240 Speaker 1: I'll know if it feels good to me when I 2001 01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:02,320 Speaker 1: listened to it. Um. And I think that if if 2002 01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:03,960 Speaker 1: there was ever a moment to consider what that would 2003 01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:06,320 Speaker 1: be is now and and hell yeah, like I'm I'm 2004 01:29:06,360 --> 01:29:09,439 Speaker 1: excited to consider what what place I would take in that, 2005 01:29:09,800 --> 01:29:11,720 Speaker 1: in whatever space has been made available for me at 2006 01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:13,880 Speaker 1: this point in my career. And yeah, I'm I'm I'm 2007 01:29:13,960 --> 01:29:16,240 Speaker 1: I'm excited to figure that out. And I think I'm 2008 01:29:16,280 --> 01:29:20,120 Speaker 1: also excited to, in so doing, bring people into something 2009 01:29:20,160 --> 01:29:22,280 Speaker 1: which is bigger than a single moment. You know, because 2010 01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:24,479 Speaker 1: I've never been the kind of artist who is led 2011 01:29:24,479 --> 01:29:28,679 Speaker 1: by singles, campaigns, particularly or the idea that it always 2012 01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:30,599 Speaker 1: has everything is about this one moment. It's all about 2013 01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:33,639 Speaker 1: happening right now. And so rather than wanting to peak, 2014 01:29:34,200 --> 01:29:36,599 Speaker 1: you know, I think I want to bring people into 2015 01:29:36,640 --> 01:29:38,559 Speaker 1: something which is just moving, and I think the movements 2016 01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:40,720 Speaker 1: what's important. So what I would hope if I did, say, 2017 01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:43,679 Speaker 1: for example, write a hit which would be super cool, UM, 2018 01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:45,960 Speaker 1: would be that people would figure out that it's part 2019 01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:48,960 Speaker 1: of something bigger and then and then those other parts 2020 01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:51,800 Speaker 1: of of the operation would would get elevated to you know. 2021 01:29:52,360 --> 01:29:54,959 Speaker 1: And for me, somehow that feels like the most sustainable 2022 01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:57,400 Speaker 1: way of writing a hit, rather than thinking this is 2023 01:29:57,400 --> 01:29:59,479 Speaker 1: a chance for me to write one song that completely 2024 01:29:59,560 --> 01:30:01,280 Speaker 1: changes the and then I can feel like I've done 2025 01:30:01,320 --> 01:30:04,680 Speaker 1: my thing. I almost feel like, you know, there's absolutely 2026 01:30:04,680 --> 01:30:06,519 Speaker 1: no cap to the number of people I would love 2027 01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:09,880 Speaker 1: to reach. Um. But I think that I think that 2028 01:30:09,920 --> 01:30:11,880 Speaker 1: it needs to happen in in its own time, and 2029 01:30:12,200 --> 01:30:15,320 Speaker 1: I would be really excited to bring people into this 2030 01:30:15,400 --> 01:30:18,680 Speaker 1: like ever expanding world that I'm kind of operating in, 2031 01:30:18,720 --> 01:30:20,479 Speaker 1: and I'd love to I'd love to figure out like 2032 01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:23,599 Speaker 1: what what it all means in a in a global sense. 2033 01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:25,799 Speaker 1: I'd love for more people to come to my shows, 2034 01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:28,960 Speaker 1: for example, and experience them, and I'd love to to 2035 01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:31,559 Speaker 1: to reach more more people in that sense. But I'm 2036 01:30:31,600 --> 01:30:33,280 Speaker 1: not too fussed about having a hit, to be honest, 2037 01:30:33,280 --> 01:30:35,599 Speaker 1: in a in a pure sense, I think I'm I'm 2038 01:30:35,600 --> 01:30:38,439 Speaker 1: more interested in making music that there is right to 2039 01:30:38,520 --> 01:30:41,400 Speaker 1: make when it's right to make it. Okay, you were 2040 01:30:41,439 --> 01:30:45,040 Speaker 1: a young viril man on the road. Although your music 2041 01:30:45,160 --> 01:30:50,599 Speaker 1: may be unique, certain things stand true. The travel, the gig, 2042 01:30:51,040 --> 01:30:55,640 Speaker 1: the fans, the dope, the alcohol, the women. To what 2043 01:30:55,880 --> 01:30:58,920 Speaker 1: degree have you partaken of the perks of the road, 2044 01:30:59,439 --> 01:31:03,479 Speaker 1: great question? Um, I honestly, I've never been into drugs 2045 01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:07,360 Speaker 1: and alcohol particularly. I'll have a drink occasionally and that 2046 01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:10,280 Speaker 1: could be nice, but um, you know that. So I 2047 01:31:10,280 --> 01:31:12,280 Speaker 1: think that that part of things I've always tended to 2048 01:31:12,280 --> 01:31:14,320 Speaker 1: stay clear from. And I remember going on the road, 2049 01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:16,120 Speaker 1: and I remember having a drink after each show the 2050 01:31:16,160 --> 01:31:18,400 Speaker 1: first time on the road, and I remember doing the 2051 01:31:18,400 --> 01:31:20,479 Speaker 1: show the next day and thinking I just don't quite 2052 01:31:20,479 --> 01:31:22,960 Speaker 1: feel as sharp as I did yesterday, and thinking, you 2053 01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:24,240 Speaker 1: know what, then it's probably not worth it, so I'm 2054 01:31:24,240 --> 01:31:25,760 Speaker 1: going to stop. So I was actually quite pleased with 2055 01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:28,719 Speaker 1: myself for stopping that thing. Um, as far as adoring 2056 01:31:28,760 --> 01:31:31,000 Speaker 1: fans and and and girls and all sorts of things 2057 01:31:31,040 --> 01:31:34,080 Speaker 1: like that. Um, I mean, I guess I'm very early 2058 01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:37,040 Speaker 1: on in my journey and I've I've definitely seen that 2059 01:31:37,040 --> 01:31:38,879 Speaker 1: there's that there can be a particularly kind of attention. 2060 01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:42,639 Speaker 1: I'm quite a I have quite a vivisited in a space, 2061 01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:44,600 Speaker 1: as I mentioned before, and so I tend to be 2062 01:31:44,720 --> 01:31:48,000 Speaker 1: quite careful about who I who I share that with. UM, 2063 01:31:48,040 --> 01:31:51,240 Speaker 1: But I love interacting with people at large. And and 2064 01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:53,760 Speaker 1: one thing that's a feature of my particular shows that 2065 01:31:53,800 --> 01:31:56,120 Speaker 1: I've I've noticed that it seems to be a little 2066 01:31:56,200 --> 01:31:59,080 Speaker 1: unique is after the gig, I'll get like a queue 2067 01:31:59,080 --> 01:32:01,200 Speaker 1: of people two hundred on and it's like three hours 2068 01:32:01,200 --> 01:32:03,720 Speaker 1: of question and answers about like how do you think 2069 01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:06,120 Speaker 1: about this, Jacob, or how would you approach this? Can 2070 01:32:06,120 --> 01:32:07,920 Speaker 1: you give me some advice about? You know? And I 2071 01:32:08,240 --> 01:32:10,439 Speaker 1: actually I just love that. I mean, that's so cool. 2072 01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:12,920 Speaker 1: And I mean I did it every single one of 2073 01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:14,920 Speaker 1: my one man shows. I did like a second show 2074 01:32:14,960 --> 01:32:17,040 Speaker 1: after every show, which is just talking to people. That 2075 01:32:17,120 --> 01:32:18,559 Speaker 1: was a bit draining after a while, so I kind 2076 01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:21,080 Speaker 1: of stopped for this last year. But um, I love it. 2077 01:32:21,120 --> 01:32:23,519 Speaker 1: I love connecting with people. I think it's there's something magic. 2078 01:32:23,920 --> 01:32:27,639 Speaker 1: But this is a world that I'm familiar with. These people, 2079 01:32:27,720 --> 01:32:30,320 Speaker 1: you mean something into their in their life. They will 2080 01:32:30,360 --> 01:32:33,920 Speaker 1: then say, come to my house, let me make you dinner, 2081 01:32:34,520 --> 01:32:37,720 Speaker 1: stay at my house. It's all that off limits or 2082 01:32:37,760 --> 01:32:40,160 Speaker 1: if you, you know, dip your toe in some of that. 2083 01:32:41,120 --> 01:32:43,560 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say anything is off limits, per se. I 2084 01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:46,479 Speaker 1: have a pretty good compass about who's genuine and who's 2085 01:32:46,479 --> 01:32:49,120 Speaker 1: cool and who's not um And obviously, you know, you 2086 01:32:49,200 --> 01:32:51,920 Speaker 1: learn that, you learn from experience, but you know, yeah, 2087 01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:53,960 Speaker 1: every every so often you'll think, like, wow, this is 2088 01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:56,519 Speaker 1: a fascinating group of people or a fascinating person, and 2089 01:32:57,000 --> 01:32:59,120 Speaker 1: I'll go and spend time with you. But but honestly, like, 2090 01:32:59,160 --> 01:33:01,559 Speaker 1: the road moves so far, and I know that the 2091 01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:03,599 Speaker 1: amount that I have to give every night on stage 2092 01:33:04,240 --> 01:33:07,120 Speaker 1: means I can't afford to spend too much amante on 2093 01:33:07,720 --> 01:33:10,800 Speaker 1: other people and things outside of that. So I tend 2094 01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:12,519 Speaker 1: to keep myself to myself on the road, to be 2095 01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:15,600 Speaker 1: honest with you, But obviously there's always a sense of 2096 01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:18,080 Speaker 1: adventure and that there's there's a joy in kind of 2097 01:33:18,280 --> 01:33:21,479 Speaker 1: being open to that Okay, now you have a long 2098 01:33:21,680 --> 01:33:27,000 Speaker 1: history playing music. Did people always say you were gifted 2099 01:33:27,880 --> 01:33:31,360 Speaker 1: and you believe you have some special skill or do 2100 01:33:31,479 --> 01:33:34,640 Speaker 1: you believe it's the old ten thousand hour rule and 2101 01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:36,640 Speaker 1: you've put so much time into it that you have 2102 01:33:36,680 --> 01:33:40,840 Speaker 1: a facility that you can then expand upon good question. 2103 01:33:41,400 --> 01:33:44,080 Speaker 1: I don't think anything is black and white like that. 2104 01:33:44,800 --> 01:33:46,960 Speaker 1: It's it's it's probably a mixture, you know. I know 2105 01:33:47,160 --> 01:33:50,840 Speaker 1: for a fact that people in my family have been musicians, 2106 01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:52,760 Speaker 1: and very good ones at that, and so I guess 2107 01:33:52,760 --> 01:33:55,600 Speaker 1: it would make sense that I have a particular predisposition 2108 01:33:55,640 --> 01:33:57,760 Speaker 1: to it. I've done at least ten thou hours, so 2109 01:33:57,760 --> 01:34:00,640 Speaker 1: I'm sure that's part of it too. I think that 2110 01:34:00,720 --> 01:34:04,439 Speaker 1: there's something there's a way that the ancient Greeks tend 2111 01:34:04,520 --> 01:34:07,080 Speaker 1: to talk about the word genius, which I like, which 2112 01:34:07,120 --> 01:34:08,840 Speaker 1: is that a genius is not something that you are 2113 01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:11,160 Speaker 1: so much as something that you have so you can 2114 01:34:11,200 --> 01:34:13,439 Speaker 1: have a genius. It's like, oh, I'm having a genius. 2115 01:34:13,680 --> 01:34:15,800 Speaker 1: I'm having a genius idea. I'm having I'm having a 2116 01:34:15,840 --> 01:34:19,439 Speaker 1: moment of ultra connection, you know, of transcendence. I know 2117 01:34:19,520 --> 01:34:23,200 Speaker 1: that feeling. I have had those in my time. I've 2118 01:34:23,240 --> 01:34:25,160 Speaker 1: had to learn how to court them, how to deal 2119 01:34:25,160 --> 01:34:27,000 Speaker 1: with them, how to manage them, how to separate myself 2120 01:34:27,000 --> 01:34:29,439 Speaker 1: from them to a certain extent, I think, I think 2121 01:34:29,479 --> 01:34:31,559 Speaker 1: everyone has the capacity to do that. But it's a 2122 01:34:31,560 --> 01:34:37,200 Speaker 1: particular combination of of circumstance, of of of luck, of 2123 01:34:37,200 --> 01:34:41,320 Speaker 1: sort of courage, I think, and willingness to to be yourself, 2124 01:34:41,400 --> 01:34:43,600 Speaker 1: and also willingness to listen and conform to others to 2125 01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:46,240 Speaker 1: a point to And I think that everyone strikes a 2126 01:34:46,240 --> 01:34:48,639 Speaker 1: different balance with that. You know, I'm I'm pretty good 2127 01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:50,880 Speaker 1: at being Jacob. I think I'd say that I'm pretty 2128 01:34:50,880 --> 01:34:53,720 Speaker 1: good at being myself. I'm pretty good at knowing my 2129 01:34:53,800 --> 01:34:55,840 Speaker 1: forces and understanding them and how to work with them. 2130 01:34:55,880 --> 01:34:58,120 Speaker 1: And I think I'm I'm good at drawing lines to 2131 01:34:58,120 --> 01:35:01,320 Speaker 1: a point creatively about how to organized, and I'm good 2132 01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:03,600 Speaker 1: at I think I'm quite good at having ideas. And 2133 01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:06,720 Speaker 1: so I think that actually that is what's maybe productive 2134 01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:09,040 Speaker 1: in a sense more than God, I'm a such a 2135 01:35:09,040 --> 01:35:11,040 Speaker 1: good piano player, or because I'm not that good at piano, 2136 01:35:11,080 --> 01:35:13,120 Speaker 1: but I'm not that good at any of the one 2137 01:35:13,160 --> 01:35:15,320 Speaker 1: off skills that you might say, Oh, Jacob is a 2138 01:35:15,320 --> 01:35:17,240 Speaker 1: great singer or bass player or drama. I don't. I 2139 01:35:17,240 --> 01:35:19,120 Speaker 1: don't think of myself as spectacular any of those things. 2140 01:35:19,160 --> 01:35:21,920 Speaker 1: But I think what an artist does is an artist 2141 01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:25,240 Speaker 1: combines forces in a way that is unique to that artist, 2142 01:35:25,240 --> 01:35:28,000 Speaker 1: because no idea is ever truly fully unique, right obviously, 2143 01:35:28,439 --> 01:35:31,439 Speaker 1: but the way that ideas can be combined can be 2144 01:35:31,520 --> 01:35:35,240 Speaker 1: just beautiful and so meaningful, and there's infinite potential for 2145 01:35:35,280 --> 01:35:37,320 Speaker 1: those idists to be combined. So I think for me, 2146 01:35:37,360 --> 01:35:39,479 Speaker 1: I almost think about my skills in that way, like 2147 01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:41,800 Speaker 1: I'm not a master at any of these skills. So 2148 01:35:41,880 --> 01:35:43,599 Speaker 1: the thing that I've tried to master and I think 2149 01:35:43,640 --> 01:35:46,360 Speaker 1: i'm I think I'm pretty good at it is is 2150 01:35:46,760 --> 01:35:49,320 Speaker 1: who's Jacob today? How can I use that in an 2151 01:35:49,320 --> 01:35:52,040 Speaker 1: open way? How can I bring people together using the 2152 01:35:52,080 --> 01:35:54,479 Speaker 1: forces that are in my world in my life? And 2153 01:35:54,520 --> 01:35:56,519 Speaker 1: how can I learn and dig deep into something that 2154 01:35:56,560 --> 01:35:58,920 Speaker 1: I love in this case music and just understand it. 2155 01:35:59,000 --> 01:36:02,040 Speaker 1: So I would I would sort of put as a 2156 01:36:02,080 --> 01:36:04,720 Speaker 1: testament to what I can do. I would say it's 2157 01:36:04,720 --> 01:36:08,439 Speaker 1: a combination of things. I would say, um, you know, yeah, 2158 01:36:08,439 --> 01:36:10,240 Speaker 1: perhaps I have some kind of genetic thing that means 2159 01:36:10,280 --> 01:36:11,840 Speaker 1: that means I was going to be drawn towards music, 2160 01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:15,200 Speaker 1: But I've had a patient and love giving family who 2161 01:36:15,200 --> 01:36:17,040 Speaker 1: have always made space for me to be who I 2162 01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:18,519 Speaker 1: needed to be. That's probably the number one thing I 2163 01:36:18,520 --> 01:36:21,160 Speaker 1: would say. I've always had a space to play. Children 2164 01:36:21,160 --> 01:36:22,920 Speaker 1: tend to make as many ideas as there are ears 2165 01:36:22,920 --> 01:36:24,800 Speaker 1: to hear them, I think, and I was always always 2166 01:36:24,840 --> 01:36:26,800 Speaker 1: pased to hear my ideas, So that was a big one. 2167 01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:29,200 Speaker 1: I would say. I had and I had enough resources 2168 01:36:29,240 --> 01:36:31,759 Speaker 1: to get started. I had a microphone, had a piano, 2169 01:36:32,080 --> 01:36:34,880 Speaker 1: had had a logic, I had tools to work with 2170 01:36:35,400 --> 01:36:39,920 Speaker 1: um And I would say that I've although I wouldn't. 2171 01:36:40,160 --> 01:36:42,439 Speaker 1: I don't think of myself as particularly hard working in 2172 01:36:42,720 --> 01:36:44,519 Speaker 1: a funny way, because I don't feel like I've ever 2173 01:36:44,520 --> 01:36:47,160 Speaker 1: slaved away at something for longer than I've been interested 2174 01:36:47,160 --> 01:36:49,800 Speaker 1: at it. But I've worked so super hard if I 2175 01:36:49,880 --> 01:36:52,479 Speaker 1: if I'm honest with what I want to say and 2176 01:36:52,520 --> 01:36:54,400 Speaker 1: how I want to say it, and like just equipping 2177 01:36:54,439 --> 01:36:56,400 Speaker 1: myself to do so. So I think that the mixture 2178 01:36:56,400 --> 01:37:00,479 Speaker 1: of time and luck, and resources and and and skill, 2179 01:37:00,560 --> 01:37:02,600 Speaker 1: and I think above all a sense of openness and 2180 01:37:02,640 --> 01:37:06,599 Speaker 1: a sense of determination to be Jacob in all situations. Okay, 2181 01:37:07,080 --> 01:37:11,520 Speaker 1: so needles to say Jesse four is the next one, Hey, 2182 01:37:11,920 --> 01:37:14,919 Speaker 1: what comes after that? Be? Do you have no idea? 2183 01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:17,760 Speaker 1: See do you just go along this path or you 2184 01:37:17,800 --> 01:37:20,720 Speaker 1: say there's a whole another avenue. I want to explore 2185 01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:26,840 Speaker 1: b to to to the largest extent. I don't know 2186 01:37:26,880 --> 01:37:30,280 Speaker 1: what's coming, man, I'm not sure. I set out to 2187 01:37:30,320 --> 01:37:33,960 Speaker 1: do Jesse almost with with the thought in mind of like, 2188 01:37:34,360 --> 01:37:36,639 Speaker 1: if I can do Jesse, then I can do anything. 2189 01:37:37,479 --> 01:37:40,200 Speaker 1: And so after Jesse, I can I can really get started, 2190 01:37:40,320 --> 01:37:42,080 Speaker 1: Like I can really decide what I what I want 2191 01:37:42,080 --> 01:37:44,679 Speaker 1: to do, because I want to. I want to figure 2192 01:37:44,680 --> 01:37:45,920 Speaker 1: out what it means to write for an orchestra. I 2193 01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:47,559 Speaker 1: want to figure out what it means to collaborate with 2194 01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:49,120 Speaker 1: a rapper. I want to figure out what it means 2195 01:37:49,120 --> 01:37:51,880 Speaker 1: to work with a banjo player, or what I want 2196 01:37:51,880 --> 01:37:53,400 Speaker 1: to I want to write for choirs. I want to 2197 01:37:53,439 --> 01:37:56,160 Speaker 1: stretch myself all this stuff. So I did that thinking 2198 01:37:56,600 --> 01:37:57,920 Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm going to want to do, 2199 01:37:58,000 --> 01:37:59,439 Speaker 1: but I'm going to make sure I have all the 2200 01:37:59,439 --> 01:38:01,720 Speaker 1: skills and I'm equipted as far as I can to 2201 01:38:01,880 --> 01:38:04,160 Speaker 1: do whatever I want to do after this, And I 2202 01:38:04,200 --> 01:38:06,160 Speaker 1: don't know what that is yet. I mean, I think 2203 01:38:06,160 --> 01:38:08,360 Speaker 1: there's there's so many avenues that I've been exploring a 2204 01:38:08,360 --> 01:38:09,600 Speaker 1: bit in the last couple of years. You know. One 2205 01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:11,479 Speaker 1: of those is scoring for film, for example, which I've 2206 01:38:11,520 --> 01:38:13,680 Speaker 1: I've been drawn drawn towards, and I'm doing some of that, 2207 01:38:13,720 --> 01:38:16,479 Speaker 1: and that's exciting to me. UM. I think that I've 2208 01:38:16,520 --> 01:38:19,920 Speaker 1: barely scratched the surface of what's possible, UM in my 2209 01:38:20,040 --> 01:38:23,719 Speaker 1: in my creative life. I just it's it's it seems 2210 01:38:23,760 --> 01:38:25,920 Speaker 1: infinite for me, and I think I want that to 2211 01:38:25,960 --> 01:38:30,160 Speaker 1: continue to a point even tho affinity you can be healthy. UM. 2212 01:38:30,200 --> 01:38:32,240 Speaker 1: I think I've barely scratched the surface of what's possible 2213 01:38:32,280 --> 01:38:35,840 Speaker 1: in the live performance realm. And I think that for 2214 01:38:35,880 --> 01:38:37,880 Speaker 1: someone with the skills that I hold, I think I've 2215 01:38:37,880 --> 01:38:43,280 Speaker 1: barely scratched the surface of how connective, UM, the things 2216 01:38:43,520 --> 01:38:46,880 Speaker 1: I'm doing, the music I'm making, the experiences I'm building 2217 01:38:46,880 --> 01:38:49,120 Speaker 1: for people can be bringing people together. So I want 2218 01:38:49,120 --> 01:38:51,880 Speaker 1: to I want to be led by whatever I'm led by. 2219 01:38:51,880 --> 01:38:55,840 Speaker 1: I have those priorities pretty solid and and I'm I'm 2220 01:38:55,880 --> 01:38:59,120 Speaker 1: wide open. I don't have a clue, honestly, but I'm 2221 01:38:59,160 --> 01:39:02,599 Speaker 1: excited to find out. Well, you've done an excellent job 2222 01:39:03,080 --> 01:39:05,880 Speaker 1: of describing who you are, where you came from where 2223 01:39:05,880 --> 01:39:09,120 Speaker 1: you're going, and I think this will be very enlightening 2224 01:39:09,240 --> 01:39:13,040 Speaker 1: for those who are unfamiliar with you previously. So Jacob, 2225 01:39:13,080 --> 01:39:14,880 Speaker 1: I want to thank you so much for your time 2226 01:39:14,880 --> 01:39:16,960 Speaker 1: and for doing this. Thank you both. Thank you so 2227 01:39:17,000 --> 01:39:18,160 Speaker 1: much for having me. This has been something I've been 2228 01:39:18,160 --> 01:39:20,760 Speaker 1: looking forward to for ages actually, and it's super super 2229 01:39:20,840 --> 01:39:22,519 Speaker 1: nice tab a chance to talk to you about this. 2230 01:39:23,439 --> 01:39:26,120 Speaker 1: Until next time. This is Bob left Sense