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Speaker 1: M Hey, everybody, it's your old pal Josh. And for

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Speaker 1: this week's S Y s K Selects, I've chosen How

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Speaker 1: Auto Tune Works came out in August of two thousand fifteen,

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Speaker 1: and it's one of my under the radar favorites because

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Speaker 1: it looks at something that's worked its way into every

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Speaker 1: crevice of popular culture, but that none of us really

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Speaker 1: has any idea about how it works or where it

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Speaker 1: came from. And this episode is a special listener Male

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Speaker 1: roundtable with us and Holly and Tracy from Stuff You

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Speaker 1: Missed in History Class all about sexism. It's super interesting

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Speaker 1: and really kind of out of left field after the

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Speaker 1: Auto Tune episode, so it's a nice combination and I

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Speaker 1: hope you enjoy it. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know,

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Speaker 1: a production of My Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles

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Speaker 1: W Chuck Bryant, There's Jerry And this is Stuff you

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Speaker 1: Should Know. That was great? Thanks man. Do I sound

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Speaker 1: like Share? Do you sound like T pay T, Josh

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Speaker 1: T Josh or Snoop Dogg? Does he do auto tune?

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Speaker 1: He factors into this big time later on Oh Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know about that, so I've got something

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Speaker 1: of my sleeve. This is kind of fun. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how much we're gonna do that because people are

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Speaker 1: probably like, stop it right now. Oh, chuck, I think

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Speaker 1: we should do it a lot. Are you done? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm done? All right? Um, we could have just auto

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Speaker 1: tuned this whole thing. Yeah, you know, maybe we should.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we should maybe from this moment fore, we should

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Speaker 1: just auto tune the rest of the episode starting now.

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Speaker 1: Let's sabotage our careers. Uh, you got an intro for

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Speaker 1: this fancy intro. I think we just did it, buddy.

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Speaker 1: Okay up, let's get in the way back machine then,

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Speaker 1: my friend, Okay, we don't have to go back that

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Speaker 1: far because I know where we're going. It's gonna be

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Speaker 1: a short trip. Let's go back to Oh summer Boom.

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Speaker 1: I'm you and I are in the club. We're hanging out.

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Speaker 1: We're drinking rum and coke. You can find us in

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Speaker 1: the club and uh, we're we're dancing. We're getting down

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Speaker 1: and grooving too. Uh. To share his latest jam, Believe

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Speaker 1: Believe It's a hot jam, A hot, hot, hot jam

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Speaker 1: that's released in the summer it's summertime. As you can tell,

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Speaker 1: it's hot in the club, cheat, and I've got on

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Speaker 1: my my my short pants, I'm dressed like I'm out

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Speaker 1: for a night at the rocks. Beary, that's right, I'm

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Speaker 1: wearing a cross shirt, so I've noticed. Actually, how did

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Speaker 1: you not? Well? Yeah, the third nipple really stands out.

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Speaker 1: So we're in the club, we're jamming and share his

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Speaker 1: song is on, and uh, something happens at about thirty

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Speaker 1: five seconds into the song, and you and I are

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Speaker 1: just like, whoa daddy? Did you just hear that? It

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Speaker 1: changes everything? It changed the whole tone of the club,

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Speaker 1: Like the club was like okay, and now it's banging

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Speaker 1: because of a little something called auto tune. Uh what

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Speaker 1: sounded like a little electronic glitch. Was very purposeful, and

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Speaker 1: it was the first time the auto tune had been

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Speaker 1: used in this way. So what, Josh is auto tune?

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Speaker 1: That was quite a setup. Uh, can we do the

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Speaker 1: rest of the episode in the club? Yeah? Why not? Okay,

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Speaker 1: just keep those rum and coats coming, Okay, that's cool. Um,

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Speaker 1: So Chuck, let me let me stop you for a second. Right,

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Speaker 1: because the way you described it, you made it sound

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Speaker 1: like everybody was like, oh, Shure just used auto tune. No, no,

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Speaker 1: everybody said, what was that? That was awesome, although some

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Speaker 1: people were like, what was that? Don't ever do that again,

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Speaker 1: But most people were like, wow, Share just released her

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Speaker 1: biggest hit of her entire career, and it was a

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Speaker 1: pretty long career. She just came back like that just

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Speaker 1: established her comeback was this track, and it actually became

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Speaker 1: one of the greatest best selling singles of all time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think, I mean, it would have been a

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Speaker 1: probably a big song anyway, but I think most definitely

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Speaker 1: Auto Tune kicked it into the stratagy gave it just

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Speaker 1: the extra something. It became part of the talking but

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Speaker 1: everyone was talking about it. So everybody went to her

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Speaker 1: producer and said, dude, how did you do that? We

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Speaker 1: want to know how to do that? And he was like, vocoder. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: He lied. He lied, He lied big time. He lied

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Speaker 1: in person to other producers, he lied in interviews, he lied, lied,

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Speaker 1: lied about how he made that track because he wanted

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Speaker 1: to keep it to himself because it was so huge,

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Speaker 1: and it became so huge Chuck that at first Auto

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Speaker 1: Tune was called the Sheriffect. Even the company that produced

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Speaker 1: auto Tune, and Terry's which we'll talk about in a minute,

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Speaker 1: called it in their instructional book, the share Effect. They

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Speaker 1: probably still do, don't. They don't mention it any longer,

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Speaker 1: yea um. But the so it was, it was a

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Speaker 1: huge deal, and this guy lied and kept it under

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Speaker 1: wraps and for many years it was very mysterious. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's actually if you live under a rock, well, let's

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Speaker 1: go ahead and play that clip of the very first

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Speaker 1: thirty five seconds into that song where shaf says I

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Speaker 1: can't break through. There's no yeah right there, boom right there.

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Speaker 1: Music changed from that point forward. Okay, so what what

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Speaker 1: this guy, what her producer was saying was vocoder. Vocoder

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Speaker 1: is something that's been around for a very long time.

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Speaker 1: If you've ever listened to any Pete Frampton, Peter Frampton, anythings,

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Speaker 1: do you feel like we do that whole long guitar

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Speaker 1: solo or whatever, he's breathing into a tube connected to

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Speaker 1: his guitar, which is electrifying his voice. Vote coder had

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Speaker 1: been around for a very long time, but there's different

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Speaker 1: ways of doing it that That was definitely the tube

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Speaker 1: effect through the guitar, but you can also just use

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Speaker 1: it to you know, make your voice robotic like Beck

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Speaker 1: to turntables in a microphone or Mr Roboto with sticks,

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Speaker 1: but all different ways to use it. This thing, this

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Speaker 1: sounded different to share effect. It was a little different, sure,

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Speaker 1: And I wonder how this guy talked his way out

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Speaker 1: of like Yeah, I mean like if if if a

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Speaker 1: producer was like, okay, well show me how you did

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Speaker 1: it on vote coder, if he was like over here

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Speaker 1: and then just like ran out of the room. I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't think he talked out of it. I think

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Speaker 1: he was just another line music producer and he was

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Speaker 1: just like okay, well busted. Okay. So um, Apparently along

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Speaker 1: the way people figure gured out here there what this

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Speaker 1: guy did believe, and they started using it themselves, but

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Speaker 1: very very sparsely. Alright, So, Josh, what is auto tune? Alright,

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Speaker 1: I'll answer your question because I'm gonna keep asking it.

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Speaker 1: All right, So auto tune is a plug in originally

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Speaker 1: released in for the audio editing software pro Tools. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a software piece that allows you and the original

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Speaker 1: um intent and how it's still mostly used is to

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Speaker 1: pitch correct um singer's voice. Right, So when you when

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Speaker 1: you or I go into the studio to record those

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Speaker 1: albums that will never release, but we just record for fun. Um.

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Speaker 1: We hit flat notes here there, Oh, not me a

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Speaker 1: perfect pitch. I hit flat notes here there perfect um,

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Speaker 1: and everybody does. It's a normal thing, sure for most

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Speaker 1: of eternity. UM music producers would say, blue Eyes chairman,

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Speaker 1: I need another take. That was a great take, but

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Speaker 1: you had a couple of flight. Now give me another

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Speaker 1: take just like that one. And Frank would finish his scotch,

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Speaker 1: put out a cigarette and say, you get one more,

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Speaker 1: shine head. What was the Joe? Oh you didn't even

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Speaker 1: see spinal tap, did you? Yeah, you finally saw it, finally, Okay,

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Speaker 1: But I don't remember any Frank Sinatra. Yeah there was

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Speaker 1: when Bruno Kirby is the Limo Drivers. He's talks about

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Speaker 1: Sammy Davis's book, Yes I can, and he says what

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Speaker 1: they should have called it is, yes I can. As

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Speaker 1: long as Frank says, it's okay because Frank called the shots.

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Speaker 1: For all those guys, I do remember that. Um. So

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Speaker 1: Frank would sing one more take, and this could be

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Speaker 1: like take twelve or fifteen or twenty, depending on like

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Speaker 1: how how much how much the person was feeling at

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Speaker 1: the singer was feeling it at the time, and would

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Speaker 1: be happy to hang around the studio whatever was keeping

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Speaker 1: the singer there at the studio. As long as that

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Speaker 1: was around the singer, the singer was happy to give

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Speaker 1: it one more try, one more try, right, like drugs maybe,

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Speaker 1: um or if they had like a really good candy bowl,

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Speaker 1: who knows, I gotta stay for the skittles. Um. So

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Speaker 1: the editor then or the music producer would then take

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Speaker 1: all of these different tracks and would go through and

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine how awful this would be. Take the

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Speaker 1: best part of this track and edited together with the

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Speaker 1: best part of that track, and like we're talking like

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Speaker 1: pre digital air, so like they're spicing together tape sure

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Speaker 1: from what I understand, right, to get the best possible

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Speaker 1: complete take piece together from many different takes. Right. So okay,

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Speaker 1: that's that's what they did. All of a sudden, there's

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Speaker 1: this new software that just runs through a take and says, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: I see what note or what key the singers singing in,

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Speaker 1: But this this particular notes just a little out, so

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Speaker 1: I'm going to nudge it into the key that the

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Speaker 1: singer was going for. And now all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: One take is all it takes. Yeah. I mean what

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Speaker 1: it did was it cut down on studio time, which

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Speaker 1: is super expensive, which was very appealing because now you

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Speaker 1: could churn out songs that are more rapid rate and

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Speaker 1: a cheaper rate. And uh, it was it was a

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Speaker 1: little sort of a secret tool that they didn't intend

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Speaker 1: to like get out to the public. I don't think

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Speaker 1: they wanted everyone to know this stuff. No, it was

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Speaker 1: meant for professionals. Yeah, And basically it was just it

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Speaker 1: was the musical audio equivalent of cosmetics. Yeah. Doctor. It

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Speaker 1: was invented by Dr Harold Andy Hilda Brand, and he

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Speaker 1: likened it to make up and the New Yorker likened

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Speaker 1: it to um, like getting rid of a red eye

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Speaker 1: and a photograph. It was just you use it just

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Speaker 1: enough so that you can't tell it's there, but it

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Speaker 1: makes for a more pleasant um overall composite. Right. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What Share had done, or what Shares producers had done,

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Speaker 1: is take this thing and used it to the nth degree. Yes,

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Speaker 1: supposedly it was just a joke and Share was like,

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Speaker 1: I love that, but that's like, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: that's an urban legender, if that's fact. Well, from what

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Speaker 1: I read that her producer, she was she wanted like UM,

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Speaker 1: she had heard like some telephone effect that she was

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Speaker 1: interested in using, like she wanted something and I guess

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Speaker 1: the producer had stumbled upon that and UM played it

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Speaker 1: for but it was like you're not gonna like this,

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Speaker 1: but listen to this weirdness, and she was like that

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Speaker 1: I want that nice That's what I read. Well, I

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Speaker 1: think that it's due to her giving it the green light.

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Speaker 1: Then that was truly like uh, foresight, like a masterful

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Speaker 1: move by Share. You know, well, Share has a lot

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Speaker 1: of ForSight. You know, they say, don't don't doubt share

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Speaker 1: and Share has a lot of foresight. Never bet against share. UM.

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Speaker 1: So when she did make that decision, it changed, Like

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Speaker 1: you said, it changed everything. And well, well I I

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Speaker 1: we can't talk enough about this, but we're going to

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Speaker 1: take a break and then come back and talk more

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Speaker 1: about it right after this. You stop, all right, Josh.

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Speaker 1: What I found most interesting about this while researching what

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Speaker 1: um was what Andy Hildebrand did before he did this.

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Speaker 1: He was a musician. He was played flute professionally since

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Speaker 1: he was a young teenager, even went to University of Illinois,

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Speaker 1: go fighting a line, I on a music scholarship. Yet

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Speaker 1: he chose to work for Exxon Mobile for seventeen years

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Speaker 1: looking for oil. Yeah, he's crazy. The two weren't too

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Speaker 1: terribly far apart well, as we will find out. So

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Speaker 1: he's a professional floutist, classically trained flout. It is a

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Speaker 1: good one from what I understanding. His flute, yes, um,

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Speaker 1: And he went to college to get an electrical engineering degree,

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Speaker 1: I think. And basically when when he went to work

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Speaker 1: for the oil companies, it was an oil exploration and

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Speaker 1: he figured out a programmer he designed to software um

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Speaker 1: that when you set off an explosive charge underground, it

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Speaker 1: measured the pitch of stuff of the sound waves that

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Speaker 1: that were created. Right, So as they traveled through rock,

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Speaker 1: different types of rock adjust the pitch basically, and this

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Speaker 1: software like analyzed the pitch that was coming through and

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Speaker 1: could create a subsurface map of the rock below. And

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Speaker 1: oil companies have long known that this type of rock

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Speaker 1: is associated with oil, and this type of rock is

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Speaker 1: not maybe a'll financial gas and this type of rock.

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Speaker 1: So with this guy creating an audio visual map of

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Speaker 1: the subsurface area, oil companies no longer had to just

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Speaker 1: drill and drill and hope that they found UM oil.

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Speaker 1: He would say, this is a pretty pretty great place

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Speaker 1: to drill because this kind of rock is there. That's right.

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Speaker 1: It's called auto correlation. And it saved Exxon a lot

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Speaker 1: of money, and he somehow made a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was gonna be one of those things

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Speaker 1: where like x Son was just like, thanks, you work

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Speaker 1: for us, here's your forty dollars a year. But apparently

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Speaker 1: he UM earned enough money to retire by the age

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Speaker 1: of forty thanks to this innovation and UM in the

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Speaker 1: early he got out of the oil business and found

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Speaker 1: it like it's just a popularity content. Yeah. Uh. He

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Speaker 1: founded UH in Terrorists Audio Technologies and UH kind of

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Speaker 1: near Silicon Valley in Scott's Valley, California, and I think

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Speaker 1: still they only have about ten employees. I think it's

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Speaker 1: a pretty small operation. It's all centered around him and

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Speaker 1: his ideas and in he is the main inventor UM.

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Speaker 1: One of the first things he invented was something called Infinity,

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Speaker 1: which is a program that where you could loop samples

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Speaker 1: UM over and over and over like seamlessly. Apparently that

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Speaker 1: was a necessary thing. I didn't know that. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: think about it. We're talking like early nineties. That was

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Speaker 1: like the eight acid house revolution. Yeah, but I just

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Speaker 1: didn't realize. I guess he made it easier, probably is

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Speaker 1: my guess. Yes, I think he enabled it. He enabled

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Speaker 1: technos the impression I have, Oh really yeah, interesting looping

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Speaker 1: samples together seamlessly. Well, but you could already do that.

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Speaker 1: What I'm saying is is he clearly found a way

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Speaker 1: to do it better and more efficiently. He didn't invent looping, No, no,

258
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Speaker 1: he made it better, Yeah, exactly. Another thing he did

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Speaker 1: was invented the microphone modeler. Modeling is a big thing

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Speaker 1: in music. You can get um guitar amplifiers that model,

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Speaker 1: uh basically means imitate other amps. I have a modeling

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Speaker 1: amp which I don't use anymore because it's uh, not

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Speaker 1: very good, but it models. There's like twelve different classic amps.

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Speaker 1: It models, supposedly. But he invented the modeling microphone, which

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Speaker 1: means you could mimic like classic microphones, or like a

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Speaker 1: harmonica Mike and vintage Mike's, like the Elvis Presley, that

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Speaker 1: cool looking Mike I'm sure that was on there. Oh

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Speaker 1: is that the silver kind of rounded rectangular one. Noel's

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Speaker 1: got one on his desk. I yeah, yeah, that's associated

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Speaker 1: with Elvis Presley. Well, I mean just the music of

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Speaker 1: that time. But I always picture Elvish. Yeah you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, I can see that. Yeah. Have you

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Speaker 1: ever seen his grandson, by the way, quick sidebar. No,

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Speaker 1: his name is quick sidebar yea quick Sidebar Presley. It's

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Speaker 1: weird name, but you know, Lisa Marie was his mom.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, um, that was very funny. By the way,

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Speaker 1: he uh, just look him up. I think what's his name?

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Speaker 1: I can't remember his name. His last name is the

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Speaker 1: father's name for Lisa Marie's first husband, is who she

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Speaker 1: had him with. Uh yeah, just look at Elvis Presley's grandson.

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Speaker 1: It is creepy. Dude looks exactly like Elvis at that age,

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Speaker 1: like scary, scary, eerily similar. Can he sing that? I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Does he use auto tune? That? I do know?

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Speaker 1: If he sings, he probably use his auto tune, probably

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Speaker 1: because of singers. Apparently his auto tune it seemed even

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Speaker 1: higher than that. Really, how about that? Admit it? M

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Speaker 1: you know, yeah, there's the thing about auto tune where,

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Speaker 1: um you deny that you use it even though you're

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Speaker 1: totally aware that everyone uses it. UM. I read an

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Speaker 1: article where apparently this one producer said that he's worked

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Speaker 1: with two artists that have haven't used it everyone else has,

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Speaker 1: and it was Nico Case and Nellie for Tato. And

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Speaker 1: then apparently later after that, Nellie for Tato released a

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Speaker 1: single that had tongue of auto tune on it solid

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Speaker 1: she may be the only artist in the world who

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Speaker 1: hasn't used auto tune, either subtly or um to the

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Speaker 1: nth degree. Well, that's certainly not true. I think there

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Speaker 1: are plenty of indie artists. But if you're talking, you

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Speaker 1: should read this Verge article. It basically lays it out like, no,

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Speaker 1: everyone uses this even if so. Apparently producers don't even

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Speaker 1: necessarily tell the band that it's being used right then,

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Speaker 1: because there's a live function, so that the monitors or

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Speaker 1: the headphones that UM the band is hearing is being

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Speaker 1: run through auto tune, so what they're hearing is already corrected,

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Speaker 1: so they think they just did a perfect take. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm just wary of anytime someone says, out of twenty

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Speaker 1: million singers, one person doesn't that's just very dubious claim.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. We're talking music industry here, especially when

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Speaker 1: a lot of people are making their own music in

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Speaker 1: their own homes. Well, that's another thing they're not was

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Speaker 1: part of the pop machine. They don't have stats on that,

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, I'm just I'm just saying that's that

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Speaker 1: sounds like a load of garbage to me. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: more than one person doesn't either. It's just one. Um.

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Speaker 1: So auto tune came about, apparently this is the tail

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Speaker 1: because of a dinner that Hilda Brand was at. He

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Speaker 1: was having lunch with a sales rep and the wife

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Speaker 1: said something funny like, hey, Andy, can you once you

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Speaker 1: invent something to make me sing in tune? And he went, no,

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Speaker 1: great idea, that's a great hilder Brand. We should have

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Speaker 1: auto tuned that. Maybe we could maybe maybe it was

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Speaker 1: maybe it just happened. Uh. And so he said, you

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Speaker 1: know what, Uh, if I can tell Jed Clampitt where

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Speaker 1: the oil is, then I can make you sing on

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Speaker 1: in tune. And he did, and he did he created

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Speaker 1: auto tune, and um, we've kind of mentioned how it works. Basically,

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Speaker 1: it takes a it takes that take of a singer's song.

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Speaker 1: It takes the vocals of a song and you select

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Speaker 1: what key you're singing in, and then auto Tune goes

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Speaker 1: through and makes this map of this of the audio

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Speaker 1: of the vocal track, and it goes through and says, oh,

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Speaker 1: this one's a little flat, this one's a little low

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Speaker 1: or whatever, um and it just nudges these things into

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Speaker 1: tune into into the key that it's supposed to be in.

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Speaker 1: So all all of the notes that the singer hits

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Speaker 1: and that take are within the correct key, meaning that

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00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,880
Speaker 1: they all sound great. It's a perfect take, right. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the the key there is it's in the original

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Speaker 1: tone and inflection of the artist, right, So you can't

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Speaker 1: tell it's happening. No, And there's actually if you look,

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Speaker 1: if you look at the UMU Auto Tune product demo videos,

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Speaker 1: it's amazing. So there's a there's an um an automatic

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Speaker 1: version where like it just you select the key and

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Speaker 1: like a tune, do its thing, and it does a

345
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 1: pretty great job. One of the one of the ways

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Speaker 1: that it does this is um it adds like millisecond

347
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Speaker 1: pauses in between notes. There's little spaces between notes, which

348
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 1: gives it a natural feel. Um If there's other selections

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Speaker 1: that you can make like throat length, you can select

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Speaker 1: how long the singer's throat is uh, and you can

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Speaker 1: do that note by note, um, so you can make

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00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 1: the whole thing even more natural. Until basically, what you've

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Speaker 1: done is taught auto tune how to simulate a particular

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Speaker 1: singers singing style and voice so that when it when

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Speaker 1: it adjusts that note, it does it within the same

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Speaker 1: exact range that the singer would have done had they

357
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Speaker 1: hit it correctly. It's pretty amazing and advanced stuff. What

358
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 1: when when normal people think of auto tune, like you

359
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 1: and me who are not in the music biz, um,

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Speaker 1: we we think of this, that's called the zero function. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and you know what, let's take a break and we

362
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Speaker 1: will explain what the zero function is right after this.

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Speaker 1: You know, stop all right, the suspense is kidling me.

364
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 1: You're gonna kid that's kid alright. Zero function. That was

365
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 1: essentially what the share effect was. Okay, right, yes, go ahead,

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Speaker 1: no no, no go ahead, no, no go ahead. You

367
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Speaker 1: just sat up in your chair like you were about

368
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Speaker 1: to arm rest. I've been do you go ahead? Do

369
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 1: you talk about it? Well, what auto tune does, in

370
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: the in terms of the zero function is is it

371
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,920
Speaker 1: gets rid of all of that space, and when shares

372
00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: voice changes, it's immediate. Yeah, all of those notes go

373
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Speaker 1: right up against each other, and it creates this robotic

374
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,360
Speaker 1: sounding voice. Yeah, there's no like rise. It's there's it's

375
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: not like a what's the word I'm looking for? It's uh.

376
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 1: It's not like a normal vibrato that you would get

377
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 1: because in a normal vibrato, there's there's pauses, there's space

378
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 1: in between the notes. With this, it's not not all

379
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,719
Speaker 1: pressed up against each other in the compressed way, and

380
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,400
Speaker 1: that zero function um is what what. It takes any

381
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Speaker 1: spaces out between the notes and creates that robot sound. Yeah,

382
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 1: because I think auto tune has has a range of

383
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,679
Speaker 1: numbers to make it flow more seamlessly. And when they

384
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: took it all the way down to zero, which means

385
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: there's nothing there, it created that weird effect that they're like, nah,

386
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: share your listen to this. It's weird. Yeah, And she's like,

387
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: I like weird. It's great, baby, I hear number one

388
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: hit in my future. No, you got it wrong. It's

389
00:23:54,480 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 1: it's great baby. No. That was uh, that was Jack

390
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: from Will and Grace. Oh do you remember when he

391
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: thought he was talking to a share impersonator. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

392
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 1: and he's like, no, if I could turn back to

393
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: turn he was teaching her how to say it, sing

394
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 1: it correctly. I thoroughly enjoyed will and grace. Oh it

395
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 1: was great. Agreed, All right, where are we? Well? You

396
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: were talking about the share effect, right, and that's what

397
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 1: it was called again. Antari has called this zero function

398
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: the share effect for many years and um and over time,

399
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 1: remember her producer just kept lying and lying and lying.

400
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 1: Over time, other producers independently figured out what he had done.

401
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: That he had used the zero function, which was a

402
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 1: really obscure tool on a software suite that not everybody

403
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 1: knew about. Right, So it took some some brainpower and

404
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: some experimentation, but little by little, some produce just figured

405
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 1: it out. This one producer um did a remix of

406
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: a j Lo song and used it, and he I

407
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 1: think was the second person to use it, um publicly

408
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: and uh for a brief time, it became known as

409
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: the jal effect. Of course, anybody who used this without

410
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 1: fessing up to it. At first, in the early two thousands,

411
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: it was called the whatever effect. And there's this producer

412
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: Rapper down in Florida named T. Paine, and T Paine

413
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: heard this jal effect. He went on a mission to

414
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: figure out what this was, and he finally apparently took

415
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: him years to figure it out. He finally figured out

416
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: that it was the zero effect on this pro tools

417
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: plug in UM and he started using it and just

418
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,199
Speaker 1: went crazy with it. Like up to this point it

419
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: was used to like tweak or it would maybe make

420
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: UM a track of just a little weird over here,

421
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: something like that. He used it as often as he

422
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: possibly could. Yeah. He basically the zero function and tea

423
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: pain are one and the same. Yeah, And it became

424
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: known as the tea Pain effect really because when people

425
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 1: asked him how he did it, guess what he said,

426
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: folk coder? Did he really? Yes, yes he did, And

427
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: for years he managed to make a mint because the

428
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 1: whole thing was in hip hop or in pop. If

429
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,439
Speaker 1: you wanted this tea pain effect, te pain needed to

430
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 1: console at least if not produce your record. That was

431
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: like ten years after the Share effect. People not know

432
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: that I I he managed to pull it off for

433
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: crazing years and years. Good for tea pain is what

434
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 1: I say? Yes you know, yeah, I mean he apparently

435
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: was like, um, I guess on a plane ride. Usher

436
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: was on the same plane and asked to speak to him,

437
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: and she was like, I've got to get something off

438
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: my chest. You really screwed up music, like big time

439
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: t Pain was like, I made a bunch of money

440
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: doing this and people seem to like it, so I'm

441
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: not gonna stop. Hildebrand has been vilified by many, and

442
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: he said, you know what, I just make the car.

443
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: I don't drive it down the wrong side of the road. Yeah,

444
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: it's a great quote because a lot of people hate

445
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: auto tune and thinks that's the worst thing that happened

446
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: to music. A lot of people like it and say,

447
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: when you use it for what it's supposed to be

448
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: used for, it can really help out. Because you know,

449
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 1: it's not like everyone uses it all the time. I'm

450
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: sure some people need it way more than others. Well,

451
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: even if you're using it as a like cosmetic touch,

452
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 1: like kill the brand originally designed it for a lot

453
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: of people say no, we shouldn't even be doing that, because, um,

454
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: if you go back and listen to things like Bob

455
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: Dylan or The Beach Boards or um, just a lot

456
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: of these original artists that didn't use these kind of

457
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: effects on their voice. Um, when they sang and their

458
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: recordings made it through the studio, there were still flat

459
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: notes here there, but it was their music, it was

460
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: their voice, it was their vocals in these tracks, and

461
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: everyone came to know and love them. But now, because

462
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: everything is auto tuned perfectly, even the stuff that you

463
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: don't you can't hear it's auto tune because they're not

464
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: using zero function, but just the fact that it's been

465
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: running through the auto tune, this stuff sounds really rough

466
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 1: by comparison. So a lot of people are like, auto

467
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 1: tune is ruined music. It ruined music that people love

468
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: for decades because now by comparison it seems rough. Well.

469
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: But it also, like a good ear can tell if

470
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: something's auto tune, it has this weird tin equality that, um,

471
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: it doesn't sound natural. So I think it they will

472
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,959
Speaker 1: be blowback and a reversion back to older methods. Okay,

473
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: I bet you Jack White has an auto tune that's

474
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: the most purest of pure guys. No, he uses all

475
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: sorts of weird vocal effects on his stuff. No, but

476
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: as far as like I bet he has ask him,

477
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: he wouldn't admit it. Apparently that's part for the course. Um,

478
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: so te Pain. If we can get back to the

479
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: history of this by you a drink so t Pain right, hit.

480
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: He's huge, like he's just everything he drops is just

481
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: blowing up all over the place. He's getting invited to

482
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: consult and produce on uh Kanye's album, which ultimately had

483
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: every track had auto tune on it by the time

484
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: Tea Pain got done with that, right. Um, have you

485
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: heard his queen Bohemian raps that he live? No? Is

486
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: it good? Oh? No, oh no, it's there's a video

487
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,959
Speaker 1: that someone spliced of him and he and Freddie Mercury.

488
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: It's one of the worst things I've ever heard on

489
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: a on the stage. I've got to check it out.

490
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: It's terrible. Okay, all right, Um, I gotta see that.

491
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: It's good. So um the tea Pain effect. Yeah, and

492
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: if you wanted this effect, you had to have tea pain.

493
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: Well Snoop Dogg says, that's enough of that. Oh finally,

494
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: and he releases something called Sensual Seduction and it's one

495
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: of the better rap videos you've ever seen. It's pretty good.

496
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: There's a star wipe in it, so you know, I

497
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: love it Um. So Snoop releases this using the T

498
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: pain effect to great degree, but he didn't consult with

499
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: T Pain. T Paint had nothing to do with this record.

500
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: So Snoop kind of opened the floodgates saying, if you

501
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: guys want to use this, go use it. But what's

502
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: interesting if you watch that video when Snoop is um

503
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: doing like the the T pain effector of the auto

504
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: tune stuff, he's actually got a tube going to a

505
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: synthesizer to make it look like he's using a vocoder.

506
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, is that weird? Like in his video? But anyway,

507
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: he's sure that wasn't a marijuana smoking divide. It may

508
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: have been, it may have been thing about it um,

509
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: but Snoop changed everything in in that he took tea

510
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: Pain out of the equation and really opened the floodgates

511
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: for anybody and everybody to use this stuff. Simultaneously, jay

512
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: z was trying to close those floodgates and push all

513
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: of it back in. Yeah, I think jay z Um

514
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: clearly jumped the shark at a certain point. You know

515
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: when major ad brand are making ads using the latest

516
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: and greatest that it's years late, first of all, and

517
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: that means that has definitely jumped the shark. And in

518
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: two thousand nine, Windy's had a Frosty Posse commercial where

519
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: a gang of office workers built it out auto tuned

520
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: rhymes while searching for Frosty's. I don't remember that, I know,

521
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: but I went and watched it. Of course, how is

522
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: it pretty great? It's what you think it is pretty great.

523
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: It's awesome. Okay, now it's terrible. And Jay Z apparently

524
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: saw this and was enraged, and so he wrote a

525
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: song called d O a Death of auto Tune. I

526
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: know we're facing a recession, but the music y'all making

527
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: gonna make it the great depression. Get back to wrap

528
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: you t pain into much. That's calling that's calling someone

529
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: out hard. Yeah, but other auto tune, um, auto tune.

530
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: The news was a big YouTube pit. Oh yeah man,

531
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: that um the bed intruders song. Yeah, let's um, let's

532
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: play a clip from that. For two thousand ten, it

533
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: was a local news footage from Huntsville, Alabama, of Antoine

534
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: Dodson delivering more awesome human being. Yeah about a neighborhood

535
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: intruder and someone auto tune that the Gregory Brothers did.

536
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: That's right, let's hear that real quick. We got your

537
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: bigger pution. No, you are so good, you are really good.

538
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: The man got away, leaving behind evidence. I was okay

539
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: by some PI and the pie. So don't so don't soul,

540
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: don't song. He climbing your windows, you're snatching your people

541
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: are trying to write from magic. Have you listened that recently? No,

542
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: it's pretty great. Yeah. Yeah, but again that was in

543
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: two thousand ten, and I think that even kind of

544
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: had a pretty short shelf life. Unless they're still doing it.

545
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: I don't know what it was. What you say, The

546
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: Gregory Brothers, the Brooklyn Soul band. Yeah, they started out

547
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: doing auto tune the news. Yeah, and they would take

548
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: the news and just auto tune it and turn it

549
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: and like just produce it over use it um. And

550
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: they did that with the Bed and Trooder song, and

551
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: that actually became the number one video on YouTube of

552
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: all of two thousand ten. I look the original the

553
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: original video has a dwight million views right now. Yeah. Yeah,

554
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: it's pretty impressive stuff. At at the same point, like

555
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: now auto tune has become a parody of itself. Yes,

556
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: it's it's being used in ads. Here's the progression. Something

557
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: starts out, someone uses it artistically, someone comes along and

558
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: overuses it, then everybody starts to overuse it. Then Wendy's

559
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: makes a commercial using it. Newsweek finally gets around to

560
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: writing an article about it, and then years after we

561
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: record a podcast on it, and then the thing finally dies. Yeah,

562
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: and then fifteen or twenty years after that it becomes

563
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: hip again. Yes, you know, that's the progression. So the

564
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: point that we're at though, now, Chuck, it's not so

565
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: cut and dry, man. It's not as cut and dry

566
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: as jay Z would like to have you think. Because

567
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: he came out with this death of auto tune track

568
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: in like two thousand nine. Auto tune is still around

569
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,439
Speaker 1: very much. And now it's getting the point where if

570
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: like um the Verge and uh, I can't remember the

571
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: other article I read, they're both on this podcast page.

572
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: If they're to be believed, they're credible sources, and they

573
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: certainly seemed like it from these articles. There's a there's

574
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: this growing question of um, is auto tune here to stay?

575
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: People are starting to compare it to the initial reaction

576
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: that people had to the electric guitar. It was a

577
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 1: lot different from the original guitar and people it took

578
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: a lot of getting used to, or like when Bob

579
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: Dylan went electric, a lot of people didn't like that,

580
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 1: But then look at what happened now with the electric guitar.

581
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: A lot of people tried different stuff with it and

582
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: it became a standard. Some people are wondering if auto

583
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: tune is going to fulfill the same destiny. I think

584
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: most people are hoping that it does not. Yeah, well,

585
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: I mean, sweetening vote coals is nothing new, Like reverb

586
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 1: is a tried and true thing for years and embraced.

587
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 1: H does that sweetened vocals? I thought that was always

588
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: used to like make it weird. Now it's it's sort

589
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: of like it gives it an echo, a like you're

590
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: singing in a big empty church hall or something. But

591
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: it makes it sweetens it. It doesn't like correct anything,

592
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: but when I say sweetens it, it just makes it

593
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: sound a little better. Reverbs a great tool, right. The

594
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: point is it's artificial. Yeah, it's not natural. Yeah, they

595
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: it's they tried to replicate like singing in a big

596
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: empty echo e hallway, uh, with an effect and it worked, right.

597
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: And another argument in favor of auto tune that I've

598
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: seen is simply taking a human voice and recording it

599
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: automatically makes it artificial, like if they're not there in

600
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: the room with you singing to you at that moment.

601
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: Anything else is artificial, So what's the problem. So just

602
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: to let people know, I put out two text during

603
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: the episode to musician friends Jack why no. I texted

604
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 1: Lucy Wayne Wright our buddy Jerry from our TV. She

605
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: has not answered, which means she's used auto tune kidding

606
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 1: and our buddy Joey c Are from the Henry Clay

607
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: People formerly of Henry Clay People, now with fakers, and

608
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: he said, I think there were a few harmonized US

609
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: and OZ on one of our old records where we

610
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: did some pitch correcting, but that's it, I think maybe,

611
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: so definitely he's probably gonna be mad that I said that.

612
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: Thank you for being fourth, right, Joey? Yeah, good guy.

613
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: Are you got anything else about audit? Yeah? Just a

614
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: really quick um. This is from a great website. Uh

615
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: tin artists that are essentially computer programs. They just have

616
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: the most auto tuned people. They have Tea Pain Kesha,

617
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: Chris Brown, Maroon Five, Black Eyed Peas, Deaf Punk, Paris Hilton,

618
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: who I forgot actually had a song the cast of

619
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: Glee Katy Perry, and number one was owl City, who

620
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: I don't even know what that is. There's a huge

621
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: outcry apparently among Glee fans for Glee to stop using

622
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 1: so much auto tune. I think the deal is. They're like, well,

623
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: these are actors, Like yeah, And there's another there's a

624
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: big scandal with u K's got talent or something weird

625
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 1: like that, um where they were using a lot of

626
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:28,720
Speaker 1: auto tune for the auditions. It's like, come on, well anyway, man,

627
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: that's not a very surprising list. So this has been

628
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: grumpy old men. I don't feel like we've been grumpy.

629
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: We haven't like condemned it out right. No. Nico Case's

630
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: my lady, she condemns it out right. Yeah, Emily, I

631
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,439
Speaker 1: have an agreement about Nico Case, but we could both

632
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: marry her if she was ever available to us. She's

633
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: right behind you. Oh my god. Uh so we have

634
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: a very well known finish up here a deal. Sorry,

635
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: I just jumped the gun. Okay, thank you. Uh you

636
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: don't have anything else about No, I was just teasing.

637
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: We have a special listener mail with guests well, hold on,

638
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: let me finish first. Okay, okay, Well, since Chuck doesn't

639
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: have anything, it's the end. And if you want to

640
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: know more about auto tune, you can type those words

641
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: into the search par at how stuff works dot com.

642
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: And this article, I have to say, by the way,

643
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: was the most definitive article about auto tune on the internet.

644
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: How about that. It's a good one. Uh so you

645
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: can go look that up. And since I said definitive,

646
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: it's time for a listener mail, and it's a special one,

647
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: like Chuck says, that's right, h Today, we um got

648
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: a joint listener mail to ourselves into Holly and Tracy

649
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,399
Speaker 1: from stuff you missed in History class. Yep, So we're

650
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: gonna bring them in right. Yeah, we're gonna read the

651
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 1: email and we're gonna talk about its implications. But let's

652
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: start now. So, without further ado, we actually have Holly

653
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: and Tracy of stuff you miss in history class with

654
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 1: Hi and Tracy. We have actually not with us, she's

655
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: with us in spirit and voice from Boston. I know

656
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: it's pretty it's pretty interesting when it comes in through

657
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: your headphones, but the other person somewhere else, it's kind

658
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: of awesome. And this is how you guys do the

659
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 1: show now right. Yes, we also have like an online

660
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 1: you know, we have a Google hangout where we both

661
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: are so we can see each other as well's we

662
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,479
Speaker 1: should have done that Tracy in here with her video

663
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: image or like um hologram of or they'd be pretty

664
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: cool too. That's true, all right. So I think the

665
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: first thing I should do we could have a picture

666
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: of me like our old boss. Oh well, I do

667
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: have a picture of you. I have the wallet side

668
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: that you gave out. So um, I think the first

669
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: thing we should do is just read. I'll read the

670
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: email here and then we will discuss like adults. How

671
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: about that? What? So, like I said, already set it

672
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: up that we both got an email from a listener

673
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: and she says the following, and this is from Amanda

674
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: Lae ends Hey guys and gals. She didn't say that,

675
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: of course, I just did. Well, you should read it, okay, Josh, Chuckers,

676
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: Holly and Tracy, and of course a hello to Jerry

677
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 1: and Nol. Yeah. I'm a social worker from Portland, Oregon

678
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: with a passion for human equity and respect. One of

679
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: the original members of the s Y s K Army

680
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: and a more recent listener to missed in History. I

681
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: binged for about five months before I got all caught up.

682
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 1: So how about that. I'm concerned about something I've heard

683
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 1: a few times on the History podcast, and I was

684
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 1: wondering if you guys would be willing to get together

685
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 1: we are and look into something to fulfill my curiosity.

686
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: When Josh and Chuck received corrections, they thank people for

687
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,760
Speaker 1: being nice and frequently ask people not to be jerks

688
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 1: when correcting them. When Holly and Tracy talk about corrections

689
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: they receive, they ask people to be nice and have

690
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: referred to corrections on several occasions as hate mail. My

691
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: concern is that listeners may be more disrespectful Howly and

692
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: Tracy because they are women, and even if listeners are

693
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: rude to Josh and Chuck, they may rein it in

694
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 1: when making corrections because there are men. Could be completely

695
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: off base. But if I'm right, I feel like the

696
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: discrepancy should be addressed on the podcast to raise awareness

697
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: about how people treat men and women differently, and even

698
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: to address people's tendency to feel protected by the anonymity

699
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: of the Internet and say things online they wouldn't say

700
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: to someone's face. And uh so, Manda, we did talk

701
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 1: about it via email, and now we're going to talk

702
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,919
Speaker 1: about it like regular human folks. And Tracy really has

703
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: the wealth of information because of her job and what

704
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: you know she's been responsible for in the past. Oh yeah,

705
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:42,240
Speaker 1: that sounds serious. Yeah. I was part of the management

706
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: team of a website for several years before I started

707
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: actually being on a podcast, and for a chunk of

708
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: that time, most of the podcasters reported to me. So

709
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: even though I wasn't managing the podcast program, I was

710
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: sort of keeping tabs on the iTunes reviews for everybody.

711
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: And there was a definite, definite try and in that

712
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 1: the podcast that had women on them got disproportionately more

713
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 1: vicious comments about what their voices sounded like versus the

714
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: podcast with men on them, which got less of that.

715
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: So this is news to me. Misogyny on the internet.

716
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 1: I'm not I wasn't aware that that was the thing.

717
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 1: Just had the most beautiful blind spot of all time. No,

718
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: I can imagine. And I know Tracy, you've like pointed

719
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: some of these out before. Um, for us, it's it's like, yeah,

720
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 1: we'll get hate mail every once in a while, Um,

721
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 1: but it's kind of easy to dismiss because even if

722
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 1: it is directed at us, it's not necessarily directed at

723
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: our gender or whatever it's or even if it is personal,

724
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: it's it's dumb. It's just it's just dumb stuff. It's

725
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: easy to not take personally, even when it's meant to

726
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: be personal. But um, that's me speaking as like a

727
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: white male age eight team to forty nine, you know,

728
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 1: so I can imagine that like when someone attacks you

729
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: just just based on your gender, or even worse, if

730
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: they're coming after you and they don't even realize that

731
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: they're being driven by this, um, this disdain for your gender,

732
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: that has to make it a lot harder to just dismiss. Yeah,

733
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: well yeah, how you can go. I was gonna say,

734
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: for me, I mean I am lucky and that I

735
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: really give very few damns about what most people think,

736
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: like unless you're sitting in my lap or paying my paycheck,

737
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: Like it's great if you like me, but if you don't,

738
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: that's cool too. Like everybody do your thing. But eventually,

739
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 1: like the landslide builds up and it's not it's not

740
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: so much that I'm like heartbroken or traumatized, but it

741
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: just wears you down after a while, where you're like,

742
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: why am I doing this just to get more of

743
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: this crap? Yeah? Well, and we definitely have, like we

744
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 1: have been called slurs based on our gender before. We

745
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: have been called the C word over the po unbelievable.

746
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: Yeah well, and then the I told you about that

747
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 1: when we were discussing the email in our email conversation,

748
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: I told you about the person who wrote to us

749
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: and said they didn't understand how I could be in

750
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: the same room with Holly without strangling her. Like that's

751
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: the kind of stuff that people will write to us

752
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: and be really awful, But we do get a whole

753
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: lot of them that I don't think people are consciously

754
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: being misogynistic, but they're talking to us and about us

755
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: in a very gendered way. So people tell us that

756
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: we sound shrill or that we sound bossy, and those

757
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: aren't words that people would use to describe men most

758
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: of the time. First, the um and all of the

759
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 1: articles that had come out lately about especially vocal fry

760
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: and other things that people criticize about women's voices that

761
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: they don't generally criticize about men's voices. Every single time

762
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 1: I read it and I'm like, I could have written

763
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,240
Speaker 1: that about my job and my experience being a woman

764
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: talking on the internet. So which one, Um, which one

765
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: hits home the most? Like one that's a just a

766
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: direct personal attack are the ones that or the person

767
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,760
Speaker 1: is just being unconsciously misogynistic, which to me would seem

768
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 1: more entrenched. Yeah, to me, the second one is worse.

769
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: And it's especially worse because a lot of the implicitly

770
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: gendered criticism that we get is also from women. The

771
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: hardest part, Yeah, that's the hardest part for me to

772
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: deal with. Yeah, when they're real specific, for example, like

773
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 1: the person who wants me to be strangled. Um, at

774
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: the end of the day, I'm like, he's working through

775
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: his own stuff. Like I have really have very little

776
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: to do with this. So I may have been the

777
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: trigger that you know, caused this little outrage bomb, but

778
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: really it has very little to do with me that

779
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: I think almost a percent of the time that is

780
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: the case. These are people who have their own gripes

781
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: in life and are probably angry, unhappy people. Yes, But

782
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 1: then as Tracy said, when you get those ones that

783
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 1: are like they they're not unconscious of how it's playing

784
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: out you realize how much it is a bigger, sort

785
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: of systemic social problem because most of those people are

786
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: not evil, they don't intend to be misogynistic. They're not

787
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: conscious that they're separating the two genders and judging them

788
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: differently on different criteria. So yeah, those are, as Tracy said,

789
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: a little more disturbing because you realize that it's kind

790
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: of like the silent creep that underlays everything. Well, we

791
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 1: do get a lot of emails that are great from

792
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: people who are great, and the majority of the email

793
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: that we get is great, so we like, I don't

794
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: want to make it sound like every person who writes

795
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: to us is awful. Um, And we talk about corrections

796
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: on the episode a lot of times from people who

797
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: write it the end and everything is fine and everything

798
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: is very respectful. So to me, a correction is you

799
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: said this person died in nineteen and eighteen, but really

800
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: it was nineteen seven. That's a correction, and that's fine.

801
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: But then we'll also get ones that are like, I

802
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: can't believe you didn't even bother to this up. You

803
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: completely butchered it. I don't know why you don't even

804
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: put more thought into what you're doing. Because it's really

805
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 1: important that you represent yourselves as well. And that's why

806
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's hate mail we get, Yeah, we get those. Yeah,

807
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: we get a lot of those, but I never feel

808
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: like those are like, uh, have anything to do with

809
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: my gender. Yeah, in those cases, absolutely, I mean we

810
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: get the same exact emails where it's just like you,

811
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: you guys are total idiots, like how how could you

812
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: drop the ball this badly? And it's like we basically

813
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 1: said exactly what you're saying, we just said it slightly differently.

814
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: It definitely doesn't warrant this kind of reaction, you know.

815
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 1: Um yeah, I I why do you think there is

816
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: a gender bias or a gender Why is it worse

817
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: for you guys being women? Do you think not just

818
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: in comments I find the history of the world, but

819
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: I know, like how how long do you have this thing?

820
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,399
Speaker 1: But I mean, like even even beyond comments like why

821
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,399
Speaker 1: is the internet so geared towards hating women? I mean,

822
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: what's what's the deal with that? Do you guys? Is

823
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 1: there is there a general understanding or idea behind it

824
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: lonely angry men is my guests? Well, I think it's

825
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: it's super complex, right, there's no one simple answer. Like

826
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 1: some of it is that we have reached an age

827
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: where the disparity in terms of UH gender equality has

828
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: shrunk at the same time that a lot of people

829
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 1: have this outlet readily available to them. So there's progress

830
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 1: being made, but there are also the people who are

831
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: still kicking and screaming as they get dragged into a

832
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: future they're not comfortable with. But then there's also just

833
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 1: a thing that again I don't think people are even

834
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,280
Speaker 1: conscious of it where it is new for many people,

835
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: and even people that are younger and have maybe grown

836
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: up in a more kind of old school traditional environment

837
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 1: be at household or community, where they're not even conscious

838
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,240
Speaker 1: of why they're more upset at women. There's just something

839
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: about women, you know, sharing knowledge or being assertive or

840
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,839
Speaker 1: being confident that just rankles them. And they don't even

841
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 1: register that it's because it's a woman. They just know

842
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,959
Speaker 1: there's something about that person I hate, and it's something

843
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,359
Speaker 1: they're just not used to and they haven't kind of

844
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 1: made the the mental accustomization to Oh. Sometimes people that

845
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: aren't dudes have stuff to say as well. Do you

846
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: think the same experiences extrapolatable under race as well as

847
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 1: gender and well, I mean I know it is, but

848
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: I mean, is it almost like a step for step

849
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: do you think I think it's probably pretty similar models. Yeah, well,

850
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 1: speaking like as the as as a white person in

851
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 1: a room of white people who are on the phone

852
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: right now. The worst days I have ever had managing

853
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: our Facebook page, our days when we talk about something

854
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: that has to do with systemic racism and we'll we'll

855
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: get a flood of similarly implic racist comments from people

856
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: who really don't know that the view that they just

857
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 1: put out there is racist. Like that's sort of the

858
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: same thing. Like a lot of people do things that

859
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: are misogynists, not really consciously being misogynist. That just comes

860
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 1: out and they're not consciously aware of it. And it's

861
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: we see the same thing on our Facebook posts in

862
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 1: subjects that are related to race really pretty often. So

863
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, when you guys get

864
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 1: a bunch of these say on a just a particularly

865
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 1: bad day, what you what? What do you do? I mean,

866
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: do you battle this? Do you just brush it off

867
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 1: and be like these guys are idiots, And whether they

868
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: like it or not, they are going to be dragged

869
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: into the future against their will you know what, do

870
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,879
Speaker 1: you do a combination of both, or do you look

871
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: at your status as a perennial top twenty podcast and

872
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:52,439
Speaker 1: say they clearly who cares what they say? Because we're

873
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: really good at what we do, because we're very successful.

874
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: I do a combination of things. I have kind of

875
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: a library of links about vocal fry and whatever. Anyone

876
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 1: writes directly to us to complain about vocal fry, I

877
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 1: kind of send them, Hey, why don't you listen to this,

878
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 1: uh this American Life segment all about vocal fry in

879
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: which Ira Glass has vocal fry the entire segment, but

880
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 1: nobody complains at him about it. Um. So, I like,

881
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 1: I specifically will address that. I will specifically address things

882
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 1: that people say on our Facebook page in public, because

883
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: I feel like our role as a podcast about history

884
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 1: does not include allowing people free rain to be racist

885
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,240
Speaker 1: in public and and have that not be challenged. Um

886
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 1: But when it comes to the like the email that

887
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: Holly and I got that was that was so bad

888
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: pretty recently, that was the person who was basically advocating

889
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: me murdering Holly. Um, I was actually traveling. I went

890
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: down to the hotel bar and how to drink, read

891
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 1: a book and tried to chill. Yeah, I tried chill

892
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: out about it. There's the answer. Booze tail fixes everything. Well, Um,

893
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 1: thank you both for addressing this. Yeah, I'm sorry we

894
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 1: didn't solve this problem here in this this listener mail segment.

895
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: Thank you for having us on the show. Of course. Um,

896
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 1: if anyone out there and stuff, you should know Land

897
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: has not checked out stuff he missed in history class,

898
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 1: you definitely should because it is super awesome and as

899
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 1: are both of you. And I don't want to strangle you,

900
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: but I want to hug your necks. Nope, you've better

901
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: have it. And now she don't move no more. Nope.

902
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 1: But thanks for coming in. And uh, we should do

903
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: this more often, you know, we should. We should have

904
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 1: a whole show where we just get together and do

905
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,959
Speaker 1: roundtable stuff. We can have yappy pow wow party time.

906
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: That would be Yeah. Well, if you have something to

907
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: say about all this, I'm we're sure you will. We

908
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 1: want to hear from you. You can tweet to us

909
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 1: at s y s K podcast. You can tweet this

910
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 1: if you missed in history class at at missed in

911
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: History you can join us on Facebook dot com slash

912
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: stuff you Should Know. You can join stuff you Missed

913
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 1: in History class at missed in History Facebook dot com

914
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,280
Speaker 1: slash miss in History make it easy? What about email?

915
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,320
Speaker 1: How do they get in touch with you? History podcast

916
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com? And you can hit

917
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 1: us up at stuff podcast at how stuff works dot

918
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,359
Speaker 1: com and at all has always joined us at our

919
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: home on the web, Stuff you Should Know dot com

920
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: and missed in History dot com. Stuff you Should Know

921
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeart Radios. How stuff Works. For

922
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 1: more podcasts for my Heart Radio is at the iHeart

923
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

924
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 1: favorite shows