WEBVTT - Tesla's Master Plan, Part Quattro 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:08.559 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. Let me tell you 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.000 we have a new star. A star is born elan 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:14.680 On mars Jus and Kennemy. 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:18.520 He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age. 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.000 Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity. 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:21.800 I feel for the guy. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.319 I would say ninety eight percent really appreciate what he does. 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:26.920 But those two percent. 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.360 That are nasty, they are opit in full. 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:32.000 Fols. We were meant for great things in the United 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:36.040 States of America, and Elon reminds us of that. I'm 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:37.400 very disappointed in Elon. 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:38.640 I've helped Elon a lot. 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:49.080 Welcome to Elon Aink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:53.840 It's Tuesday, September two. I'm your host, Max Chafkin, joined 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:58.520 right now by Craig Trudell, Bloomberg Autos editor, Hey, Craig AMX, 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:03.360 and of course Stana Hall, Bloomberg Elon Musk reporter and 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:07.440 the regular contributor to this podcast, Dana. How are you, hey, Max? 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.840 So yesterday was Labor Day. Normally that's a slow day, 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:13.560 I guess slow day for most of people in the 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.800 United States anyway, But it wasn't slow for Elon, so 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:21.240 Tesla unveiled its master Plan Part four. These were once 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:25.360 like a big part of the company's identity, of Elon's identity. 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.840 But the weird thing about this fourth master plan was 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.039 that Elon basically didn't talk about it. Most of the weekend. 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:35.440 He was tweeting about kind of his usual like political interests. 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:38.240 He was tweeting about the quote rape of Europe, a 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:43.039 bunch of other niche topics, birth rates, far right, British politics, 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:48.320 supposed voter fraud, groomers, JB. Pritzker's cousin. It went on 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:50.880 and on and on, many many tweets about all this, 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:52.880 and the only mention as far as I could find 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:55.680 of the master plan at all was the comment that 0:01:55.760 --> 0:02:00.360 quote eighty percent of Tesla's value will be optimists. We'll 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:03.560 get to optimists in a second, But Craig, what is 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:05.320 your read on this latest master plan? 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.239 Yeah, as you alluded to, this has been the big 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.000 thing in Tesla lore right. The first one came out 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:13.600 in two thousand and six, and it was before Tesla 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:16.880 was really even on most people's radar. It wasn't really 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:20.440 a company that was on the tip of anybody's tongue 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:25.040 wasn't the world's most valuable car company, and it was 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.320 kind of endearing. It's sort of you know, it was fun. 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:29.880 It was the title of it was something about secret 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:33.799 master plan between you and me. It was something that 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:37.680 people could enjoy. It was a little bit unconventional, not 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:40.680 like other CEOs. I think the second one was sort 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:42.840 of like that too, right. They referred to it as 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:46.960 master Plan Pardue. I think we're less jokey with the 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.880 last iteration. They tried to do this long winded presentation 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.480 about all it was going to take to turn the 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:56.480 world to sustainable energy. And I feel like it was 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:59.880 right around that time that this was a company that 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:04.320 was all about sustainable energy. To Psyche, it's all about AI, 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:07.600 it's all about robots, it's all about self driving cars, 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:11.400 and the business that you've known us for since the 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:14.440 beginning forget about it. Where As Dana likes to say, 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:18.399 we're tired of we're bored of making cars and this 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:22.360 master plan it really underwhelmed me. It was super vague, 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:25.799 had a lot of platitudes, and it was very uninitial 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:27.680 master plan like in that it was a lot of 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:33.119 empty rhetoric and sort of vague platitudes and not much substance. 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:40.880 Part quatro dana, I mean definitely less specific. Sustainable abundance 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:41.680 is the main theme. 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.760 Yes, abundance is like the new buzzword. And I'm like, 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:46.560 are they just trying to like jump on the fact 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.200 that there's a book out about abundance and like capture 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:53.640 the like search engine SEO terms about that. What struck 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.080 me is that this is recycling stuff that has been 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:59.480 in their shareholder decks and in their impact reports. They're 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.760 like even the picture of like the family playing Jiggo, 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.320 while I guess Optimist is in the background like watering 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.320 the plants or something like that. We've seen those images before, 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.280 and so fundamentally, I think that Tesla has a real 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:15.280 marketing problem where you have a CEO who is clearly 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:19.359 bored of the car industry, wanting to continue to ride 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:23.960 this AI hype wave and convinced shareholders that the future 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.080 is all about robotics and AI, but like they keep 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.280 falling short of really being able to do that in 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.240 a cogent way. And for a long time it was 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:34.719 all about FSD, But now I almost get the sense 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.240 that Elon is tired of FSD because he's talking more 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.800 about optimists. If optimist is going to be eighty percent 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:42.560 of the value, then what is the value of FFSD? 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:47.800 Like he's constantly reinventing ways for Tesla to differentiate itself. Meanwhile, 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:51.120 as Craig knows, like they've got four factories around the 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:54.640 globe that are over capacity and declining sales, Like what 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:56.640 are they going to do with these auto plants that 0:04:56.680 --> 0:05:00.240 they built in Berlin? In places like Berlin? I just 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:04.400 think it's like, why drop this on labor Day? Unlet 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:06.960 It's the proxy is gonna come out soon. But it's 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:09.760 just like from from everything, from like a timing perspective 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:13.360 and a marketing perspective and a strategic communications perspective. It's 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:14.960 the mess that Tesla has always been. 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:17.800 I want to get to this sort of marketing question 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:22.160 in a minute. But like Craig on this optimist thing, 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:25.359 Elon's own, like I said, his only comment about this, 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:29.080 and in years past, right the part uno or part 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:33.040 uh and part duh were very personal documents. I mean, 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:36.360 Part uh was basically a blog post. Uh. Part two 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.680 was a blog post. Part three was this crazy white paper. 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.599 But even there, Elon spent a lot of time tweeting 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:45.440 about it, and I went back and looked and he 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:47.880 was promoting it on the day it dropped. He was 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:51.640 talking about he's talking about writing it eighty percent of 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:54.760 Tesla's valuable optimist, Craig, do you know what that actually means? Like, 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:57.080 is that is there a deadline on that? Or like, 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.479 at what point is optimists eighty percent? Any sense of 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.640 how investors should should model this one? 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:06.520 Yeah, my inbox has been interesting. We have a lot 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:11.359 of investors that tend to like to message authors of 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:16.159 stories about Tesla, as you might imagine, and most of them, yeah, 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:20.680 have been very thumbs down and sort of bronx cheers 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.520 in terms of this, you know, and they're pretty consistent, 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.279 right of, like how long is this guy going to 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.800 keep up the stick of trying to cover for the 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:34.320 fact that his car business is not growing and not 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:37.359 even really do so in an incredible way, because you know, 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:41.200 these robots make for cool hype videos, they make for 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:44.400 maybe being fun at parties, although we've seen that they've 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:48.320 needed remote support in order to do simple things like 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:52.080 serve drinks. Like, we have no idea when exactly these 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:55.120 robots are actually going to be as Musk would say, 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:59.080 doing something useful, and until and unless we have a 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.520 clear indication of what sort of glidepath we are on 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.599 toward that, how can you possibly come up with a 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:09.679 credible sort of line about how much value this product 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:11.720 is going to be for this company in the next 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:12.239 few years. 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.560 I'm also just like stignied by the ever changing mission 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:18.400 of the company. So first it was to celebrate the 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.760 advent of sustainable transportation that it was widened to be 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.760 sustainable energy, and we saw products like the solar roof 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:27.120 and the power wall and the megapac, which are real 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:29.640 products and actually like a pretty actually are like a 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:32.080 growth driver of the business at this point. But now 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:35.920 it's sustainable abundance. And it's like what does abundance mean? 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:40.640 Am I supposed to think that? Like if Optimists can 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:44.240 water my garden, that's somehow abundant for me? Like I 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.120 actually enjoy watering my garden. Like what I don't understand? 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:49.640 Like what is what is abundance supposed to mean? Is 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:53.120 it time? Is it wealth? Is it like freedom from 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.160 mundane tasks? Like if you look at these shareholder decks, 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:58.520 like Optimist is pushing a baby carriage, and is that 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.160 the product that Elon is now most excited about because 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:03.800 it certainly sounds like it based on his post sun X. 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:07.560 Yeah, I mean, I think just to maybe I'm reading 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:09.440 too much into this. I mean, I think it's the 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:16.720 idea that these optimi will eventually staff factories and be 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:21.720 much less expensive than human workers, and therefore our stuff 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.559 will get much, much much cheaper. It's the kind of 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:29.920 like utopian like Sam Altman. I mean, obviously Elon and 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.760 Sam Altman have their differences, but like the kind of 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.640 techno utopian idea of AI. I mean, that's that's my 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.560 reading of it. But like to your point and to 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:44.400 Craig's point, optimists, according to this very short master plan, 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:48.600 is quote changing not only the perception of labor itself, 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:52.599 but it's availability and capability. So maybe it sound like 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.559 optimist is already put to work. There are these pictures 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:59.240 that Dana mentions in this in this thing. One is 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:03.240 an optimize, an optimist working in a factory. It looks 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.880 like with some little chemical vials. There's also a very 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:08.880 nice one of a of a like kind of a 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.400 high end party scene where the optimist is serving drinks. 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.400 Another one where the optimist is watering the plants. Well, 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.960 I guess the family plays Jenga some really you know, 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:22.760 pastoral scenes. But like, is optimists even in the Tesla 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:25.200 Cafe still remember we had those videos where it was 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:28.839 making popcorn. Are we seeing more Optimists out in the world. 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.520 Do we have any sense of actual progress here? 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:35.320 I think Musk was asked about this and has been 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:37.560 asked about this the last couple of earnings calls, and 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:41.560 he's been really sort of reluctant to give firm timelines. 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:43.760 And I think my favorite on the last earnings call was, 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:46.840 you know, it's really hard to talk about the beginning 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.360 of an S curve, but you know it's much easier 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.720 for me to say five years from now, there's gonna 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:54.520 be these really big numbers of these things to talk about, 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.520 and that you know, it's just gonna go like Gangbusters, 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.840 but actually pin down on but when exactly are we 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:05.200 going to see these being sold to customers outside of 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.680 Tesla and not just use by your own employees And 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.520 he won't really say. I think the closest he got 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:13.920 to that was back in January, where he said maybe 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:16.720 second half of next year for him to be again 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:17.599 talking about. 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.000 Shan elon time could mean anything from second half of 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:22.760 next year to second half of next decades. 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:25.000 It's so ironic for him to say, Oh, it's easier 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:26.880 for me to talk about five years out from now 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:31.080 and harder about the nearer term, when even his super 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:34.040 fans make jokes at his expense about whenever he says 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:37.760 two weeks be skeptical about something actually being ready two 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:38.440 weeks from now. 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.800 Dana, what is happening with Tesla's auto sales? There have 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.760 been a couple of bad quarters. I know that there 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:55.559 are bulls who are sort of hoping that the anxiety 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.679 over the ev tax credits going away as a result 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:02.080 of the passage of the Big Beautiful Bill will lead 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:05.040 to sort of spike in sales. Is there any sense 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:08.120 that like things are going to turn around in terms 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:09.560 of car sales in the near term. 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:13.280 Tesla operates basically in three markets in North America, Europe, 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:17.400 and China. And in North America sales have been down 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.040 quarter over quarter, mostly because of the backlash to Elon, 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.360 and I do think that the third quarter will see 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:24.920 a bump because people are trying to get ahead of 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:28.680 these tax credits that sunset on September thirtieth. But in Europe, 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:31.440 as Craig knows, sales have really cratered in like all 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:34.679 the key markets, and then in China there's this growing 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.520 competition from BYD and so you're seeing Tesla now push 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:40.360 into new markets, like the cyber truck is going to 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:43.240 be available in South Korea, and like they started selling 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.320 cars in Turkey and they've got six hundred cars. I 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.160 think they've sold in India. So like the only thing 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:53.080 that they can do is expand the map because their 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:56.240 core map is cratering. And that's just hard to do 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:58.680 because it means like growing in new markets is not 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.280 as easy as sustained markets where you were once the 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.439 market leader. And that's that's what's so I think crazy 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:08.360 making to all of the like longtime Tesla investors and 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.320 early employees who just remember like how hard it was 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:14.280 to make the Model three and to like get production 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:16.199 at scale and then they made like the best selling 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:18.439 car in the world, and Elon is throwing it out 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.640 like he's he has not done anything personally to really 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:26.160 market the new model. Why we've heard nothing about the 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.800 cyber truck. I mean, I've written about this before, but 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:32.200 I think fundamentally this is a person who wants to 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:34.640 be in the arena where everyone else is focused. I 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.880 think in his mind, he solved the problem of making 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:41.320 an affordable, high quality electric car, and he's bored and 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.840 he's moved on, and like the fact is that like 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.600 tens of thousands of employees and all of these factories 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:50.120 in this entire global supply chain have not and so 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.920 how are they gonna Like it's selling the cars, is 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:56.360 what is going to fund projects like optimists? 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:58.920 Well that's what's crazy about this document. I mean, it 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:05.319 doesn't mention affordability really at all. It suggests that Optimists 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:08.160 will make things cheaper by the I think by the 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.320 mechanism that I've suggested, But there's no talk of like 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:15.000 the cost per mile, like any of these things that 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:18.520 like we've seen Elon talk about where you could squint 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:24.199 and see how automation and the old mission connected to 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.480 one another. That was sort of the point, if I 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:30.320 memory serves of Part DUA. The crazy thing is that 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:34.080 the third one, which I went back and scanned, I 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:39.000 didn't reread the whole thing because it's like thirty pages. Yeah, 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.840 it's like a weird document from another time, because it's 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:46.320 entirely about clean energy and it's like much like a 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:50.560 yeah Biden era, like we're gonna get solar. And it's 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.600 just wild to think that the guy who created that 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:57.680 would then turn around the next year and endorse and 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.560 then and then do all this stuff to hell a 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:03.400 candidate who is like really committed, as we've seen, to 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:07.040 dialing all that stuff, back to getting rid of solar installations, 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:10.040 getting rid of wind farms, getting rid of these tax 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:13.520 credits that have been very good to Tesla? What about 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:18.680 the robotaxi rollout? So, like you have the car sales 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.160 going down, there have been over the last couple of 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:26.840 weeks a few little developments in robotaxis. Craig I think 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:32.640 Tesla has repeatedly increased the area under which these taxis 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:37.480 operate in Austin. They also said that the availability of 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:40.760 robotaxis would increase by fifty percent. I guess we could 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:44.960 take that to mean that there are now fifteen robotaxis 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.840 in Austin instead of ten. But like, where do you 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:49.320 think this is going? Do you think we're going to 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.280 see a bunch of a bunch more cities in the 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:53.400 coming months. It almost feels like he's going to have 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.440 to do something like that. To avoid even more investor backlash. 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:01.760 Yeah, I think he was a to be moderately successful, 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:04.240 I would say, in getting cars onto the road, at least, 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:08.120 even if it was with employees in the passenger seat, 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.800 even if it was with super fans in the backseat, 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.800 trying to sugarcoat every sort of issue that they had 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:19.440 or problem that they captured as they intestantly filmed on 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:22.720 their phones, because it did still generate the buzz that 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:25.400 was needed for the sort of Tesla bubble on X 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:29.840 and sometimes that is enough. And I think we then 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.040 saw the company try to kind of replicate that in 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.240 San Francisco. As we know and we're able to see 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.640 well in advance, that's not going to be doable because 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:43.360 of the regulatory regime there, and so they don't actually 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:47.960 have cars without people behind the wheel there. They're doing 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:52.920 this token indication that they're growing in Austin before they 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:57.120 increase the area where these cars can run around. You 0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:59.840 already were having people trying to use the service who 0:15:59.880 --> 0:16:03.000 we're finding really long wait times because there's not that 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:06.400 many cars available and not a huge user base, not 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.640 many cars on the road. That makes this you know, 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:13.960 sort of headline indication that they're growing in terms of 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:17.680 the service area meaningless, right, You're not actually seeing a 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:21.720 business yet for Tesla any time soon, and this is 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:23.560 really continues to be a stunt. 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.560 Yeah, I mean, in my opinion, it's all meaningless just 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:30.680 because I mean, these are not driverless cars. We don't 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.760 know anything about the economics. If I'm an investor, like 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:35.320 I don't know what to think about any of this. 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:39.320 Like clearly we've seen from other companies it's possible to 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.680 create something that looks like a driverless car service, like 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.800 Cruz has done it, Waimo has done it. Tesla is 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.520 doing it, but not quite so I don't know, but 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:51.480 I do want to try to theory on you both 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:55.080 that I've been thinking about as I was digesting all this, 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.920 which is that what we're seeing is sort of a 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.720 quiet rebrand that Tesla is doing. And I don't know 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:06.480 if it's happening because of Elon or despite Elon, but 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:08.919 I think it has two components. One of them is 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.439 the one that Dana just mentioned, which is that sustainability 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:15.639 is out, abundance is in right, Like he's not going 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.240 to talk about sustainability, and that kind of makes sense 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:21.760 because we're in a different political climate and everyone is 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.600 into AI, including investors. But I think the other one, 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:27.320 and this one to me is more subtle, is that 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.959 Elon is going to be less of a factor in 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:33.160 the Tesla brand. They're you know, recent episode of jay 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:36.800 Leno's Car podcast I think it's called jay Leno's Garage 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:42.400 featured two Tesla executives not named Elon, Lars Moravi and 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:47.120 Franz von Holhausen talking about the company and even this 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:52.919 un bylined marketing document that Elon is not talking about. 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.440 It feels like there's a little bit of an effort, 0:17:56.000 --> 0:18:00.399 maybe even a deliberate effort underway to untangle you On 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.480 from the kind of like future of Tesla. Am I 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:06.639 just seeing things or is that is that real? Do 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:07.000 you think? 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:10.159 I think that the two are so intertwined. It's like 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.000 I can't think of another auto executive more intertwined with 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:14.919 the brand than like you have to go back to 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.639 like Leiahcoca and Chrysler to find someone else who is 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:19.760 like such a pitchman for the company. And that has 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.720 always been the sort of problem with Tesla is that 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.879 they don't really have a marketing team. They have influencers, 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:29.119 but like Elon has always been the public face of 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:30.960 the brand and the only person who can speak for 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.360 the company until recently, and to your point, like now 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:36.840 they are putting more executives out there, but like Elon 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:39.119 will forever be tied to Tesla, which is why so 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:42.520 many people who are upset about Trump being elected are 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.199 A will never buy a Tesla and B will never 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:47.440 step foot in a ROBOTAXI. Like that's the other thing, 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:49.960 Like how do you grow a ride hailing service where 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:53.000 the same people who like have stickers on their car 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.480 or are like selling their cars, like they're never gonna 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.320 set foot in these vehicles. Like it's He's been the 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:02.480 CEO of this company since two thousand and eight. He's 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:07.520 like the longest tenured CEO Obeedny automaker currently. I don't 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:10.080 think you can decouple it like that easily. It's like 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:12.440 cemented in people's minds. 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.320 Forever, you know. I think there may be something to 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:18.960 this theory, and not necessarily by design, because if anyone 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:21.240 were to come to Elon and say, hey, Elon, you 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:22.639 know the problem. 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:25.080 We have is you're just a little too close. 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:28.280 To the company. People associate you with our cars a 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.320 little bit too much. Maybe we should back on down 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:32.160 from that they'd be thrown out. 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:32.359 You know. 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:36.120 Maybe there's someone very smartly behind the scenes in some 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:39.919 dark rooms at Tesla Austin who've drawn this up. But 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:42.040 I think to Danna's point, they're going to have a 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.399 really hard time actually executing it. If that's the case. 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:48.280 It just felt like, especially this weekend, Elon and Tesla 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:50.600 were pushing in two different directions. He was tweeting about 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:54.479 the AfD. He was tweeting about far right UK issues. 0:19:54.520 --> 0:20:00.919 Tommy Robinson, this extremely divisive figure in British politics. You know, 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:04.360 he's backing this far right political party in the UK. 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.800 Tesla's sales in Europe have been really bad, and so 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:10.639 it's like it's like, on one hand, Tesla is attempting 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:12.600 to kind of reset the narrative. On the other hand, 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:15.840 he law Musk is out there just doing his poster thing, 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:19.320 just posting about the most divisive stuff he could think of. 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:23.840 He is now getting behind a party that is to 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.000 the right of Nigel Farage right, a party that thinks 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:30.679 that Farage is soft on immigration. To give people a 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:33.639 sense of this is like, I don't know if in 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.879 the it's a US equivalent of trying to find someone 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:41.280 who thinks that Stephen Miller is too soft on immigrants, right, 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:44.880 And it is so incessant that his posting about the UK, 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:47.600 and before that it was all sorts of posting about 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:49.919 groc Imagine and you know what. 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.600 Age we talked about last week. I mean, I say 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:57.800 porn companion, the barely legal right right right, sensual companion 0:20:57.840 --> 0:20:58.920 that his company created. 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:02.160 Yeah, and just getting this guy to post at all 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:05.240 about Tesla, it seems to be a chore. He'll repost 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:09.280 this master plan, he'll comment on somebody who was a 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:11.959 little bit confused about Okay, so what are exactly the 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:15.160 next steps of executing this master plan? And that's where 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:18.760 we get his you know, eighty percent value posts. These 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:23.119 absolutely are just quick little divergences from the culture wars 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:24.440 and his chatbot. 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:26.920 All right, before we go, I just want to bring 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:29.199 up one last thing with you guys, And this is 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.879 going very deep in the kind of Elon universe, the 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:38.200 Tesla universe. But a bunch of fanboys noticed a new 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:41.959 potential new Tesla vehicle. Now I don't think Tesla has 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:45.080 given people any reason to think this is real, but 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:49.640 in a video that was released of the Tesla design studio. 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:53.159 In the very background you could see what looked like 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:58.719 perhaps Dana a cyber truck suv, like an suv version 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:02.119 of the cyber truck. And I think the base for 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:04.520