1 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to What Goes Up, a Bloomberg Weekly 2 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: Markets podcast. I'm Sara Panzac, a reporter on the Process 3 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: That team, and I'm Mike Reagan, a senior editor on 4 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: the Markets team. This week on the show, third quarter 5 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: earning season is in full swing. The banks kicked off 6 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: reports with beats pretty much across the board, and after 7 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: all that market talk, we'll be sitting down with one 8 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: man at the center of one of the world's best 9 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: performing stock markets. But Mike, I think we should leave 10 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: people hanging. All right, we believe him hanging. We'd like 11 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,919 Speaker 1: to leave him hanging. Usually we leave them hanging un 12 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: till the end for the craziest thing we saw in 13 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: markets this week, But this time we're gonna leave him hanging. Uh. 14 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: For the world's hottest stock market, I'll call that might 15 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: be a little bit of a hit. And also, for 16 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: fans of our segment, the Craziest thing I ever saw 17 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: in markets this week a special treat. I think it's 18 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: gonna be an elongated version of that segment because Sarah 19 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: and I the stars were aligned this week and we 20 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: both picked the same crazy market story to talk about, 21 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: and it's a big one. It's a doozy so right, 22 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: so we'll get to that earlier than usual as well, 23 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: and also joining us this week on the podcast. So 24 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: you know, it was a big week for bank earnings. 25 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 1: All the big banks reported earnings. These are incredibly important 26 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons in markets, UH, and to 27 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: help us break it all down, we are happy to 28 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: have Bloomberg reporter Felice Morans on the show. Fleee welcome, 29 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: Thank you for having me and for our craziest thing 30 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: we saw in markets this week discussion. We're bringing in 31 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: the big guns here, Chris Nag, Executive editor of Markets 32 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg. Chris, welcome to the show. Welcome back. I 33 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: guess police let's start with you though, Um, just big picture, 34 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: what was sort of your main takeaway from this UH 35 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: parade of bank earnings saw this week? So it's important 36 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: to remember that four big banks all reported simultaneously on 37 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: Tuesday morning, and that really doesn't happen too often if 38 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: every day. Yeah, so a lot of what happened passed 39 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: in a giant flood. I would say the big takeaway 40 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: is that everybody did really well except for Goldman Sacks. 41 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: So walk us through the results. So let's start with 42 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: Goldman sacks. They didn't do well. So where was the 43 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: big miss? What was the issue? So with Goldman, Uh, 44 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: there were a couple of things. Overall, the earnings per 45 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: share did miss. There were just a lot of things 46 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: that caused them to miss and to be disappointing. On Tuesday, 47 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: you had spectacular results from JP Morgan, and then Goldman came, 48 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: and then you had City and Wells Fargo. And City 49 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: and Wells Fargo weren't initially received so well either, but 50 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: as the day went on, people became more positive. So 51 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: a lot of what I've read is that one real 52 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: stand out point of the business in this quarter was 53 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 1: what they call fick uh, you know, fixed income commodities 54 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: and currency trading um predominantly because of the volatility in 55 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: the bond market we saw. So, you know, I'm as 56 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: a consumer, you know, as a suitor sort of non 57 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: bank stock investor, I always want to see what the 58 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: macro takeaway is from these earnings, you know, and I'm 59 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: not sure that a robust bond trading environment is necessarily 60 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: a great sign for the economy. Uh. You know, a 61 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: lot of this volume came because, uh, you know, markets 62 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: were so nervous about the economy uh in this quarter, 63 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: but walk us through sort of the consumer facing elements 64 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: of the bank, I understand they were pretty strong results 65 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: as well, despite this really narrow yield curves that we've 66 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: seen that presumably would affect their net interest margins. I 67 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: would say that if you were looking at trading, you 68 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: would indeed think, oh, fick, that was a standout. But 69 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: if you look overall at these results, the consumer was 70 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: very healthy and one big bright spot was credit card 71 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: spending that helped lift City Group. In fact, shares of 72 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: City Group after its executives talked about how good credit 73 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: cards were. I know Jamie Diamond flat out said on 74 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: the earnings call that the consumer still seems to be 75 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: very healthy. However, he did signal out business confidence and 76 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: said that we still see an issue surrounding business confidence, 77 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: and he even talked about the trade war and tariffs 78 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: to a sense, did we hear any of the other 79 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: executives talking about it on these calls? I mean, how 80 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: much was consumer confidence or business confidence really a focus 81 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: of some of the conversation when analysts or even the 82 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: media we're asking questions. Well, I think Jamie Diamond's comments 83 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: were very interesting in the statement. He was very careful 84 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: to swing back and forth between saying something very positive 85 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: and then caveatting, and then saying another positive thing and 86 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: then caveatting. I did notice that some people felt he 87 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: wasn't as exuberant or cheerful as he usually is. He's 88 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: seen as a big, very charismatic cheerleader for banks, and 89 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: and he wasn't as much this quarter. I did also 90 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: read at UH several of the banks UH did increase 91 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: their reserves for potential bad loans going forward. Was that 92 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: a common theme and is that just them reacting to 93 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: what the rest of us have reacted to all years, 94 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: that this uncertainty about the economy. Well, there had been 95 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,799 Speaker 1: a little bit of an increase for energy loans, capital 96 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 1: markets were soft, there was some energy problems. UM. I 97 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: think some banks also talked about credit normalization. That's because 98 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: they've made more loans, so you have to UH take 99 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: precautions just because you have more lending out there. I 100 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: think the takeaway really was that the consumer is healthy, 101 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: people are still employed. There may be some hints or 102 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: signs in the distant future, but for the third quarter, 103 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 1: the economy stood solidly on the shoulders of the U 104 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: S consumer You know, Chris, I often hear people say, well, 105 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: you really need the bank stocks to rally to do 106 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: well in order to kind of confirm a bullish stock market. Um. 107 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: Are you a buyer of that theory? Uh? And you know, 108 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: does this week's earnings sort of make you optimistic about 109 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: the chance we'll get to another record this year. I'm 110 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: not really a buyer of that theory, but I'm probably 111 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: a sayer of that theory. I think that's one of 112 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: these Wall Street uh um axioms that you you have 113 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: trouble uh not repeating about four thousand times in your career, 114 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: even if you wonder if it's true. Um. From the 115 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: perspective of here's the engine of the uh the consumer 116 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 1: engine of the economy, I think you you basically have 117 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: to say, at least that plank looks a little better 118 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: than it did a couple of weeks, or at least 119 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: you get some confirmation that isn't falling off a cliff 120 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: in the same way that manufacturing has. And that's by 121 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: far the biggest the market's biggest concern at the moment, 122 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: So that's good. We talk about bank earnings as if 123 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 1: they're almost all that's happened this week, because we typically 124 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: focus on bank earnings the first week. But we got 125 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 1: results from Honeywell I want to point out in which 126 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 1: we did see them raise their profit forecast for the 127 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: fourth quarter. Uh. We also got some not so great 128 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: earnings from the likes of Netflix. I guess you could 129 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: call it except shares rallied because international subscriber growth was 130 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: much better than expected if you just look across the board. 131 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: It's still very early on. But where do we currently 132 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: stand in the earning season and how do people feel 133 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: at this point in time. Well, I feel like Netflix 134 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: is a big deal because there's sort of this creeping 135 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: concern right now that for various reasons, most of them 136 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: having to do with we work that basically the price 137 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: of speculative equity on Wall Street is about to come 138 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: come in for a reckoning and a reevaluation. So the 139 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: fact that one of the poster children for those valuations 140 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: is able to rally, and I don't think the rally 141 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: totally lasted, and the fact that Netflix uh was was 142 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: able to stay elevated with that valuation after earnings is 143 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: also basically net net a good sign for for the 144 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: market state at the moment, so fo least, obviously we 145 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: had the big banks come out. What else is coming 146 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: up in the next week that's on your radar that 147 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: we should keep an eye out. Well, I think it's 148 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: interesting that Chris mentioned we work. I want to point 149 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: out all so that Goldman reduced the value of its 150 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: stake and we work by I think it was eighty 151 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: million dollars. And people are keeping an eye on I 152 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: P O s all sorts of things. Another thing happening 153 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: in the week to come, Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook's CEO, is 154 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: going to be testifying again in front of Congress. Uh. 155 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: The payments companies who are partners in Libra have been 156 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: dropping out, so he's probably not going to be uh 157 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: in the spotlight for the cryptocurrency Libra as much as 158 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: he would have been, but he'll still get asked a 159 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: lot of really tough questions. So Fulice, you also report 160 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: a lot on the intersection of markets and policy. Give 161 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: us a sense, Like you said, Mark Zuckerberg will be 162 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: testifying once again as we lead up to and the 163 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 1: presidential election. We just had another Democratic debate this last week. 164 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: What's the general sense how much our investors, analysts strategists 165 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: really thinking about the election is something you need to 166 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: take it into account when thinking about how to invest. 167 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: Investors are definitely keeping a very close watch to investor surveys. Uh. 168 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: Just in recent days showed us that investors think Elizabeth 169 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: Warren is going to be the Democratic nominee and they 170 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: overwhelmingly think at the current moment that President Trump will 171 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: be re elected. In hard to reconcile this, I guess, 172 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: but I'll tell you what, Sarah, I think. We it's 173 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: time to transition right into the craziest thing for the doozy, 174 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: all right, And as we both agreed, uh, this is 175 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: uh wild story. It was in Vanity Fair by William Cohen, 176 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: and let me just read the headline to you, uh quote, 177 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: there's definite hanky panky going on. Okay, I got my interests, 178 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: all right. And then the rest of it is the 179 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: fantastically profitable mystery of the Trump Chaos trades. And what 180 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: the story is about is a bunch of really high 181 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 1: volume trades in SMP futures h that the author believes 182 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: or points out occurred right before announcements from President Trump 183 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: were sort of other geo political events that ended up 184 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: boosting the stock market, and you know he you know, 185 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: writes about them suspiciously. Let me just read you one 186 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: paragraph of this story. Traders in the Chicago pits have 187 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: been watching these kinds of wagers with an increasing mixture 188 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,359 Speaker 1: of shock and awe since the start of the Trump presidency. 189 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: The precision and timing of these trades and the vast 190 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: amount of money being made as a result of them, 191 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 1: make the traders wonder if all this is on the level. 192 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: Are the people behind these trades incredibly lucky or do 193 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 1: they have access to information that other people don't have 194 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: about say Trump or Beijing's latest thinking on the trade war, 195 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: or any other of a number of ways that Trump 196 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: is able to move the markets through his tweeting or 197 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: slips of the tongue. So basically kind of accusing Trump 198 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: of leaking insider information about his plans to Uh traders 199 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: and investor is in the market. Uh, Chris Nag, you're 200 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: one of the gurus in this company as far as 201 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: analyzing trade by trade. Uh, you know what's going on. Um, 202 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: we talked about this earlier. I think if you were 203 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: editing this story, Uh, it might not have been published 204 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: in exactly the same form. No, one would have read it. 205 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: But what's your sort of takeaway on the story. And 206 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: I know your team's working on a story basically dissecting 207 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: what happened here. I mean, I don't think that there's 208 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: gigantic opposition to the idea that the basic premise that 209 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: Trump could be, as you put it earlier, wittingly or 210 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: unwittingly telegraphing stuff that Wall Street traders in there, you know, 211 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 1: immense wherewithal are able to pick up on in some 212 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: cases front run pretty much the unanimous view of of 213 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: of people we talked to is that this is sort 214 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 1: of an instance of proof through a kind of juxtaposition. 215 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: You're you're able to take, uh, Wall Street coughs up 216 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 1: an enormous amount of gigantic futures trades in any given 217 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: day or week, and if you want to go, uh 218 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: find one at times in a sort of overly lucky 219 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: way against some geo political eventor basically anything my my 220 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: cats rolling over, you can you can you could easily 221 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: uh make a case that there's a causal or there's 222 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 1: a casual link between the two. I think some of 223 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: the words that you use, uh in describing the article 224 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: are are key. He he's pointing these things out and 225 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,199 Speaker 1: he's juxtapsing, he's juxtapositioning them. He's doing it in a 226 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: very arch and moral way, and he's making it clear 227 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: with his what his point is. But really it's it's 228 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: kind of a marvel of juxtaposition and a lot of 229 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: things are trotted out that would be true literally at 230 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: any time. It's also true that Trump is moving markets 231 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: all of the time too, so you have a very rich, 232 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: uh landscape to mine, uh, whatever thesis you want out of. 233 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: And I think that's basically how people are viewing this. 234 00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: I was speaking with an investor and trader about this 235 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: article and he said, yeah, you can basically back up 236 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: a story or a narrative for any trade out there. 237 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: The problem is that if you have a story like 238 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: this that runs, they never actually write about it obviously 239 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: when you're wrong. The big Yeah, it's sort of the 240 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: no hypothesis argument that, uh, there can't be tons of 241 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: other trades that look just like this that fall flat. 242 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: But the fact is there are uh, your average you 243 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 1: know whatever, ten ten thousand or a hundred thousand contract 244 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: sp futurest trade doesn't proceed a big market move, and 245 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: all of those get ignored. People aren't in the business 246 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: of trying to sell magazines by writing about those, which 247 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: I think is irrelevant topic here. So what we're left 248 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: with is some unnamed traders in the Chicago Pits saying 249 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: this looks a little fishy. I gotta say, I didn't 250 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: even realize there were any pits left in Chicago. Yeah, 251 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: still has. Chicago Pits are where basically the high frequency 252 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: trading industry grew out of, so one of the great 253 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: technological things that's ever happened in this country. People are 254 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,839 Speaker 1: gonna also, it's not like it's not like we want 255 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: to disparage the Chicago Pits, but it's also true that 256 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: a scary amount of conspiracy theorizing seems to emanate from 257 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: that area as well. Well, I gotta call those guys 258 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: up more. I need to know journalists take note. We'll 259 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: leave it at that then, Chris nag Police Marins, thank 260 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: you so much for coming on the show. Thanks, thank you. 261 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: So Sarah, let's shift gears now to that world's hottest 262 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: stock market, and let's give listeners a little hint here 263 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: courtesy of a great band from Baltimore called jaw Works. So, Sarah, 264 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: obviously the name of this podcast is what goes up? 265 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: And one thing that's been going up consistently in recent 266 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: years is the Jamaican stock market. Last I look, it's 267 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: up about four percent since the end of two thousand 268 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: and thirteen, and that's in US dollar terms. By far 269 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: and large, it's the best performing stock market in recent 270 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: years by by a mile. Um. And it's a very 271 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: interesting market. I mean, it's uh small market, obviously a 272 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: small country, small stock market, um. And it's not the 273 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: most convenient for foreign investors to invest in, but you 274 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: cannot ignore how well it's been doing so earlier in 275 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: the year, or actually at the end of two thousand 276 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: and eighteen, it was I I traveled to Kingston to 277 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: report on it, and I'll tell you it was just 278 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: a pure coincidence that my trip was in the middle 279 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: of the winter. I'm sure that there was no other 280 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: reason that you pitched a story idea to travel to 281 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: Jamaica in the middle of what was it the February 282 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: maybe Coincidencember December. So as it gets a little bit 283 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: colder now, I'm thinking it might be time for a 284 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: return trip to the record on it, because once again, 285 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: it's one of the best performing stock markets, and pretty 286 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: much everyone I talked to while I was there talked 287 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: about the reasons for it being linked to the government 288 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: finances being brought in order the dead to GDP ratio 289 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: and Jamaica was approaching about a hundred and fifty percent 290 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: after the last recession, and they took some some very 291 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: dressed steps to get that down UH, including a debt 292 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: exchange where holders of Jamaican bonds swapped their bonds for 293 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: UH for bonds paying a little bit less interest and 294 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: longer maturities UM. And one of the fellas who was 295 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: very instrumental in that debt exchange that for the first 296 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: that exchange they did too, but he was the finance 297 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: minister during the first exchange, and he's joining us on 298 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: the show. His name is Oddly Shaw. Welcome to the show. Oddly, 299 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. And now his title, he's got 300 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: a better title now it's Minister of Industry, Commerce, Agriculture 301 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: and Fisheries. So you've got a lot on your plate there, yes, 302 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: thank you. And and I was Finance Minister between all 303 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: seven and eleven and then sixteen to eighteen, and it 304 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: was in that period into my shron the the stock 305 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: exchange that I in fact guided that process in two 306 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: thousand and nine when we established the Junior Stock Exchange. 307 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: But I must say to you that it it had 308 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 1: come out of a period not just of of important 309 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: adjustments on the watchful eyes of the I m F 310 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: in terms of the whole macro economy and how we 311 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: managed the budgetary process and so on. It also came 312 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: out of a period when the private sector had gotten 313 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: risk averse. They had suffered from uh periods of extremely 314 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: high interest rates. In fact, in the nineteen nineties, the 315 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: average commercial bank lending rate was in excess of for 316 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: a decade. It was the highest, if not the highest, 317 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: in the world. Okay, unbelievable. So so people just came 318 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: out of productive end of us and investments and we 319 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: went into buy and sell because you have to buy 320 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: and sell and making money fast to pay those kinds 321 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: of extraordinary interest rates. In some countries, including yours, it's 322 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: illegal to have interest rates like that. So so um, 323 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: this talk exchange came out of the need to say, 324 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: hold on, forget about going to banks to borrow high 325 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: interest rate money, go for equity, right And I started 326 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 1: there and and at the same time simultaneously we started 327 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: a program of bringing down interest rates, and I can 328 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: I can probably tell you that today we are now 329 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: having private sector borroing money in single digit interest rates. 330 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 1: It's six percent, seven percent, eight percent, absolutely right. And 331 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: at the same time they're also investing heavily in the 332 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 1: junior stock exchange, and that is why it is growing 333 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: at the phenomenal rate that that is growing at that 334 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: at this time because in urging equity investments and a 335 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: lot of young entrepreneurs um are our targeting that avenue 336 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: and we're very pleased with the progress that is making. 337 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: So the junior exchanges for very small companies that was 338 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: it a hundred millions makion dollars I believe or less 339 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: roughly that right, and they get a tax in center, 340 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: isn't that correct? Yes? Absolutely fun the stock. No, they 341 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: don't have to pay uh income tax for what is 342 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: it a few years after it's it's ten years, ten years, yes, absolutely. 343 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: In In fact, in fact, in much of two thousand 344 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 1: and sixteen, the previous government was going to close it 345 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 1: down and that's when I became a finance minister again 346 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: after after a four year break, and the first act 347 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: that I took was to was to keep it the same. No, 348 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: the junior stock Exchange remains in place, and as a 349 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: result of that, there is renewed interest, more people going 350 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,959 Speaker 1: for equity financing rather than than than you know, loans 351 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: and um. And it's it's really phenomenal what's happening now. 352 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I'm now encouraging the human 353 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: and stuff finance to look at at another feature called 354 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: nano stock exchange. It's it's aimed, it's aimed at the micro, 355 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: the micro even smaller than than what the Junior Stock 356 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: Exchange targeted. And because you see of Jamaican businesses are 357 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: small and medium enterprises. Okay, And one of the things 358 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: that is ironic about it right now is that the 359 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: bulk of loans to the private sector are elevated among 360 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: the ten percent. Many of them don't even have loans. 361 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: But if they were able to get more equity financing right, 362 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: then they will be able to be more productive. Then 363 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: they will be able to systematically work with the government 364 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: in targeting critical areas of new development and growth. Uh 365 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: export markets. I mean, in Jamaica, we produce so many 366 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 1: good things that that we now need to put it 367 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: at an industrial level to to replace the traditional sugarcane. 368 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: We have orchard crops, you have mangoes, you have fruit 369 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 1: of all types, avocados, um you know, all kinds of 370 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: things that are that are in global demands. And what 371 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: you don't sell fresh, you can sell it processed. You 372 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: have clear markets, you have the tourism industry of carry com. 373 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: You have the diaspora with Jamaica and in the US, England, Canada. 374 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: You have third country markets that are crying out for exotics. 375 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: And I'm introducing another one which is exciting for us. 376 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: It's a home grown school feeding program. All of these 377 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: things require investment, right and if we can and if 378 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 1: we can get the micro and small businesses to embrace 379 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: these opportunities, and part of embracing that is to have 380 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: to have them access money in an affordable way through 381 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: the junior and possibly a microstock exchange. So the returns 382 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: are undeniably strong on the Jamaican Stock Exchange, but I'm 383 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: wondering how many companies have you guys been getting interests 384 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: from in wanting to be listed on whether it's the 385 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: regular stock exchange or a micro stock exchange or the 386 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 1: junior stock exchange. Well, a lot of companies that don't 387 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: have the exact numbers now because I'm not um that 388 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: intimately that ministry anymore, but but the interest is there. 389 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: And that is why I'm actually proposing to my minister, 390 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: mic colleague minister, and to the Prime Minister that that 391 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: we don't rule out looking at at a at a 392 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,360 Speaker 1: nano stock exchange, um, because I think that that will 393 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 1: that will help to further us to mulate they drive 394 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: towards more productive investments, right, and the old tradition of 395 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: buy and sell. Is that enough to help you to 396 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: to to lift especially rural areas from poverty. Okay, we 397 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: need to add value and we need to build a 398 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: value chain from what you grow to what you process 399 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: and what you target not just the local markets, but 400 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: to the export markets. And if you were to speak 401 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,959 Speaker 1: to sort of the international class of investors, which I 402 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: imagine there's a few of them among our our listeners, um, 403 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 1: what type of investment into Jamaica would be your preferred 404 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: uh style? I mean, I'm thinking, you know, I'm not 405 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: necessarily sure that Jamaica wants to see say a Starbucks 406 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: on every corner or a McDonald's on every quarter. What 407 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: is the type of investment that you would like to 408 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: see happen. Well, I'll tell you something. The construction industry 409 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: booming right now, absolutely booming. That's the only word I 410 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: can I can use to describe it. Partly as a 411 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: function of interest rates, I imagine it absolutely. But in 412 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: addition to that, now, where where investors can come and 413 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: benefit is to bring technology and and and work with 414 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: our farmers and and and create the industrial base. So 415 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: they're moving to from fresh to agrib processing, right, So 416 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: what you don't sell fresh yourself processed, and I mean 417 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: nowhere as as as demonstrated that more than the United States, right, 418 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: And that's an opportunity that that we could have between 419 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: investors coming, bring technology, bring bring markets, and and share 420 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: in joint venture with Jamaican producers. Now one emerging industry, 421 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: of course as the cannabis industry, and that is an 422 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: area now that requires a lot of drilling the because 423 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 1: part of what is holding up the rapid advancement of 424 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: a legitimate international medicinal cannabis industry, ironically is the is 425 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: the slowness with which the United States is dealing with 426 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: the issue. Um, there are some good early signs, however, 427 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: they have now approved the hemp production which is low 428 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: in the THHC, which is the toxic level UM zero 429 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,360 Speaker 1: point three that's now approved in a farm bill right 430 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: and which means banking is all right for that. A 431 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: few weeks ago they approved the Safe Banking Act, which 432 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: is allows for banks within within each state to do 433 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: banking of cannabis. What has not been done and needs 434 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: to be done now is interstate banking. It needs to 435 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: be allowed and then correspondent banking between countries that have 436 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 1: a legitimate licensed at international standards a cannabis industry uh 437 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 1: and and that correspondent banking once put in place, we'll 438 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: see the rapid advancement of an industry which your own researchers. 439 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: By the way, I was at a Harvard, I was 440 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 1: at Harbord recently a few weeks ago at at US 441 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: a conference on fight amnicnce and cannabis. And they have 442 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,479 Speaker 1: since come to Jamaica because of our uniqueness with with 443 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: cannabis in Jamaica, and they are it is being demonstrated 444 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: beyond the shadow of a doubt that medicinal cannabis is 445 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:51,479 Speaker 1: a credible alternative to the opioid epidemic that is killing 446 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: off Americans. Between fifty to seventy thousand Americans are being 447 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: killed from opioid overdose right now, and medicinal cannabis, beyond 448 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: the shadow of a doubt, has been proven to have 449 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: more good to it. Right well, cannabis has more good 450 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: to it than bad. And of course medicinal cannabis carefully targeted, 451 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: carefully researched, is a credible answer as an alternative to opioids, 452 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: and I obviously a tremendous potential source of economic growth free, 453 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: absolutely absolutely, and from a stock market perspective, which is 454 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: the way through the lens we view things from. I 455 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: know for you, it's it's very frustrating to see Canadian 456 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: companies able to list in the United States and yet yeah, 457 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: you're pretty much completely locked out of the But but 458 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: can you guys tell me explain to me why our 459 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: banks that are inextricably linked to New York banks, where 460 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: we're transferring money from Jamaican banks, we go through New York. 461 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: Can you please explain to me how it is that 462 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: that cannabis companies in Jamaica the bank schools them down 463 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: right because of the lack of correspondent banking in New York, 464 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: Yet cannabis companies from Canada can list on the New 465 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: York Stock Exchange. Hello, can somebody explain this to me? 466 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 1: I wish I could explain it. I cannot explain it. 467 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,719 Speaker 1: If anyone can, they can call the What Goes Up 468 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: Hotline and explain it to us. Uh, the Honorable Oddly Show. 469 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,199 Speaker 1: It is great to have you on the show. We 470 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: really appreciate your time. Thank you, Thank you, What Goes Up. 471 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: We'll be back next week. Until then, you can find 472 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: us on the Bloomberg Terminal website and app, or wherever 473 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. We'd love it if you took 474 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: the time to rate, interview the show on Apple Podcasts. 475 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: Some more listeners can find us, and you can find 476 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: us on Twitter. Follow me at Sara Pontact, Mike is 477 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: at Rea Anonymous, Our guest Chris Nag is at Chris 478 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: Nag one, and Oddly Shaw is at Oddly Shaw. You 479 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: can also follow Bloomberg Podcast at podcast and Don't forget. 480 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: You can call our very own Bloomberg Podcast hotline at 481 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: six or six three two four three four nine zero. 482 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: If you leave us a message, Remember, we may even 483 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: play it on the show What Goes Up is produced 484 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: by Toper Foreheads. The head of Bloomberg Podcast is Francesco 485 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: lev Thanks for listening, See you next time.