1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World. I regard the Heritage 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: Foundation as the nation's premier conservative think tank. They have 3 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,279 Speaker 1: more than five hundred thousand members and they focus on 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: public policy. I've worked with Heritage Foundation often on since 5 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: the mid nineteen seventies when it was created by Ed Fulmer, 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: and I can tell you that their impact has been enormous. 7 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: In fact, sitting on my desk is a copy of 8 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: Mandate for Change, which is the massive book they put 9 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: together for Ronald Reagan, which outlined with some two hundred 10 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: and fifty contributors, how you could take over and begin 11 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: to move the Jimmy Carter government towards a more conservative base. 12 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: So it's very important how the Heritage Foundation is developed, 13 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: the way it's focused, and what is trying to achieve. 14 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: And they have brought in a new leader, Kevin Roberts, 15 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: somebody who has a remarkable background and leading public policy 16 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: development as the chief executive officer of the Texas Public 17 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: Policy Foundation, which is I think, without a doubt, the 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: most effective and most powerful of the state level conservative 19 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: policy operations in the entire country. Kevin, thank you for 20 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: joining me, Nude. Thanks so much for having me on. 21 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: I've been looking forward to this. I was really intrigued 22 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: when you and I chatted on the phone the other 23 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: day with how much you are dedicated to helping get 24 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: America back on the right track. So you really have 25 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,559 Speaker 1: a background. That's interesting. We both have PhDs in history. 26 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: His PhD is in American history from the University of Texas, 27 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: My PhDs in European history from Tulane University. We can 28 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: be rivals academically, although of football there's no hope for 29 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: too late. My question would be you taught, and then 30 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: you left the university to found John Paul the Great Academy, 31 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: which is a co ed K through twelve Catholic liberal 32 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: arts school in Lafayette, Louisiana. What drew you to do then? Well, 33 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: two things new. So the first was my dissatisfaction with 34 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: the university, not just the specific one where I was, 35 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: although filled with good people, but the academy writ large 36 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: that really American universities have become multiversities. What I mean 37 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 1: by that is that no longer are dedicated to the 38 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: unity the cohesiveness of knowledge that honors each of the 39 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: academic disciplines. Instead, they've just become projects that have resulted 40 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: in identity politics. So there was that push out of 41 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: the university. By the way, I wasn't surprised by that 42 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: University of Texas trained be well, but it certainly isn't 43 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: a right of center place. But the second thing is 44 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: something that I think you and I connected on when 45 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: we spoke on the phone, too, and that was relating 46 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: to my Catholic faith. I grew up in a culturally 47 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: Catholic place Louisiana. I took a lot for granted. On 48 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 1: the day John Paul the Second died, I had what 49 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: Catholics call a reversion to the faith, where my wife 50 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: and I together became much more serious about being witnesses 51 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: to hope, as John Paul the Second would say, and 52 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: so we made that switch. It is the greatest thing 53 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: that I've ever done in my life, also the most difficult. 54 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,959 Speaker 1: And so when people say, Kevin leading the Heritage Foundation 55 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: is a great opportunity, but it's fraught with many challenges, 56 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: it's me the hardest job you've ever had, I would say, No, 57 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: the hardest job I ever had was starting a K 58 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: through twelve Catholic school. It's doubly interesting for us because, 59 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: as you know, Kusten I did a movie Nine Days 60 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: to Change the World about John Paul the second going 61 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: back to Poland and the impact he had in shaking 62 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: the Soviet system to its very roots. But now, after 63 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: you've created this, you then seven years later move on 64 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: from there to become president of Wyoming Catholic College. What 65 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: drew you to that change into moving from Louisiana all 66 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: the way after Wyoming. Once again, the Holy Spirit knew 67 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: to the non sectarian way of putting that Wyoming Catholic 68 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: College was in remains the newest Catholic college in the country. 69 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: Non Catholic listeners would also be aware that most of 70 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,559 Speaker 1: the Catholic colleges in this country, however great academically they are, 71 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: really are no longer focused on their Catholic identity. And 72 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: so what drew me there was this robust, vibrant Catholic 73 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: identity that paired the great books with another passion of mine, 74 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: which is outdoor life. And so at Wyoming Catholic students 75 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: then and now are taught a year of horsemanship. When 76 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: I was president, we also taught them hunter safety certification, 77 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: as I like to say, then and now we put 78 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: the Wyoming in Wyoming Catholic College and there was just 79 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: something about the wedding of those great goods. Aristotle understood 80 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: this well in modern American life, reacting against some of 81 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: the worst trends in America culture. That made that an 82 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: exhilarating job. And the fact that President Obama and Vice 83 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: President Biden made it more difficult for us to be 84 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: a Catholic college with their contraceptive mandate, with their federal 85 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: student loans and grants, also went my whistle for policy 86 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: and political work. Having helped develop that, you then moved 87 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: to Austin to become CEO of the Texas Public Policy Foundation, 88 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: which is an organization that under Brook Rollins had really 89 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: done an amazing job, and I had worked with the 90 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: foundation for years. I think it really is the most 91 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: effective state level conservative foundation in the country. What drew 92 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: you back to Austin. What dremmy to Austin was that 93 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: I've been educated there. While my wife and I are 94 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: Louisiana natives, were adopted Texans and Central Texas as home. 95 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: It's what our kids up to this year have considered home. 96 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: Northern Virginia will be that place in early January. But 97 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: most importantly on the professional side, Texas Public Policy Foundation 98 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: punched above its weight. I mean by that is, it 99 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: didn't merely decide that it was going to affect Texas 100 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: state laws. You know, I think you came to know 101 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: TPPF through its work on conservative criminal justice reform, which 102 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,679 Speaker 1: got scaled state after state, and then ultimately we became 103 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: focused not just in that issue area, but others including 104 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: immigration and higher ed and healthcare on federal policy. And 105 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: so what I loved about Texas Public Policy was its 106 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: just inherent passion for restoring federalism, which for us I 107 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: remain on the board. There starts with excellent reform at 108 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: the state level that can then be scaled up to 109 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,799 Speaker 1: the federal level. And as you know better than anyone, 110 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: our friends are members of Congress really appreciate it when 111 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: those ideas are coming from the states, because it makes 112 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: that action on say, entitlement reform, on higher ED, on healthcare, etc. 113 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,919 Speaker 1: A little bit easier. Well. Actually, my own experience was 114 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: that we were able to do welfare reform precisely because 115 00:06:55,960 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: we could draw on success stories in Michigan, Wisconstant Virginia, 116 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: and as a result, we were able to shape a 117 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: federal law that ultimately became I think the most successful 118 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: conservative reform in my lifetime and had a huge impact 119 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: on helping people go back to work, on bringing children 120 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: out of poverty by increasing the income of their families, 121 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: and in changing the trajectory from dependence back towards independence. Now, 122 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: you recently wrote, I thought this was a very important 123 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: transition for you from your Texas focus. You recently wrote 124 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: about Tomorrow's Heritage. Tell us what your thought process was, 125 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: and we're going to link to this article on our 126 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: show page because I think it's a very important introduction 127 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: to you two people around the country to see how 128 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: your mind works. But tell me what led you to then, 129 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: Thanks for that question. You know, the rationale behind that 130 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: piece about Tomorrow's Heritage was that people in the state 131 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: based part of the conservative movement know me well, they 132 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: know how my mind works, for better and for worse, 133 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: but folks at the federal level on a national scale don't. 134 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: And so as I was sitting down with my colleagues 135 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: at Heritage, we realized that while I never want this 136 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: to be about me, I'm doing my job well when 137 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: I'm providing a platform for our scholars that for Heritage's sake, 138 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: for the sake of the Conservative movement. People needed to 139 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: know who I am, and so that was the rationale. 140 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: But there were three key points that I wanted to 141 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: convey in that peace Newt. The first is that people 142 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: need to understand that, of course we're at a crossroads 143 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: in a country with a crossroads in the conservative movement, 144 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 1: and for the last half century, Heritage has been referred 145 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: to as the mothership of the conservative movement. I don't 146 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:42,959 Speaker 1: say that with any arrogance. I say that actually in 147 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: humility on behalf of Heritage. But I am an energetic guy. 148 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: I'm an academic at my core. But I've started a school, 149 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: sort of restarted the college, and I have told people 150 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: we're going to put rocket boosters on the Mothership. By that, 151 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: I mean you're going to see and this is no 152 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: complaint about my predecessors, who are all great people, but 153 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: you're going to see Heritage responds to this moment in 154 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: American history and politics with great energy, great momentum. And 155 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: as I told our staff at the very first meeting 156 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: I had on my first day three weeks ago, I said, guys, 157 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: every single day we're going to be on offense. That 158 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: doesn't mean we're going to be offensive, it's not our 159 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: job to be insulting. We're going to be cheerful, but 160 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: we're going to be on offense and restoring the institutions 161 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: in this country. But the second point I made is 162 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:28,599 Speaker 1: one of the ways we're going to do that, and 163 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: it goes back to your comment about the welfare reform 164 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: in the nineties, is that Heritage is going to be 165 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: more active at the state level. That doesn't mean we 166 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: will ever stop being sort of the headquarters for the 167 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: conservative movement in DC, but what it does mean is 168 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: that we understand the best most effective process for conservative 169 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: policy reform in Congress originating in the States. Not a 170 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: surprise for this guy who spent his time in Louisiana, Wyoming, 171 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: and Texas. But I can tell you, as you know, 172 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: that reflects where the movement is. I mean, the movement 173 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: is very skeptical about DC, with good reason. But the 174 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: third thing that I wanted to convey, and this really 175 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: came from the heart, is I can be intemperate as 176 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: the rest of his can when it comes to speaking 177 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: about policy and politics. Hopefully those moments are rare, but 178 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: I wanted to encourage all of our friends in the 179 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: center right movement to stop shooting at one another rhetorically 180 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 1: that I don't mind the disagreement. In fact, I rather 181 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: like it, and I will give as good as I 182 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: get on behalf of Heritage. But the point is, let's 183 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,439 Speaker 1: be sure that Heritage is facilitating that conversation as it 184 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: was doing in the days under Ed Fulner's great leadership. 185 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: And I will tell you just to sum up here 186 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: Newt that I have been really impressed by almost everyone 187 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 1: who read that they have differences of opinion with certain positions. 188 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 1: Heritage has taken that. They have responded that and said, Kevin, 189 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: we look forward to that. This is something that we've 190 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: really gotten excited about. And so I've been on post 191 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: for a few weeks, my family and I will be 192 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: up there full time soon. I really look forward formally 193 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: and informally to facilitating those conversations and hopefully making the 194 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: movement less fractured so that we can answer the moment 195 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 1: that's coming in twenty two and twenty four and beyond. Well, 196 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: I think your approach is really really important because they 197 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: believe that Washington is more important than the whole rest 198 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: of the country, and so they get up every morning 199 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: and whether it's the news media or the politicians or 200 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: the lobbyists, you name it. They're all fixated on this 201 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: tiny little part of America, and that makes them amazingly petty. 202 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,439 Speaker 1: And I think one of the initial roles I'm hoping 203 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: that you will take heritage on a great mission, which 204 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: is when we win control, and I think we will 205 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 1: win control of both the House and Senate in twenty two. 206 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: It is I think extraordinarily important that ninety percent of 207 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: the effort go into solving the country's problems and ten 208 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: percent go into partisanship, and the tension in Washington will 209 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: be just the posit. There will be this whole payback 210 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: attitude of now we're going to get to investigate and 211 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: we're going to get to focus on these things, and 212 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: none of those are going to solve the country's problems. 213 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: And I think we have to have a heritage which 214 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: plants a flag for America and not for Republicans, not 215 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:22,719 Speaker 1: for petty politics, not for gotcha, but rather, we have 216 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: enormous challenges if we're going to compete with China successfully, 217 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: and we have enormous challenges if we're going to truly 218 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: make the opportunity to pursue happiness apply to every single 219 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: American and I think we need precisely the kind of 220 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: revitalized heritage you're talking about. I remember working with Fulner 221 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: in the early years of Heritage, when it was in 222 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: a small building. We would have lunch on a regular basis, 223 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: and it would have been absurd to have suggested that 224 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: Heritage was somehow going to change history. But because of 225 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: visionary leadership, Heritage changed history. And I think you are 226 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: being called to the same opportunity, and that is to 227 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: spend twenty two creating the agenda, if you will, for 228 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: the House and Senate that relates to what's going on 229 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,559 Speaker 1: in the States, and that actually moves us towards very bold, 230 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: very dramatic reform proposals in which there are ten or 231 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 1: twelve proposals comparable to what we did with welfare reforms. 232 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: So I'm delighted that you're taking this approach. This month, 233 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: the Heritage Foundation filed an application with the Supreme Court 234 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: to delay implementation of the Biden administrations COVID nineteen vaccine 235 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: mandate on private employers. Can you explain to us a 236 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,719 Speaker 1: little bit about the case and why Heritage decided it 237 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: was important to file it. Absolutely, and it fits within 238 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: this framework you just articulated about Heritage not just gravitating toward, 239 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: but leading articulating the rationale behind transcendent reform policy ideas 240 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: that transcend the partisanship of the moment that we're in. 241 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: And so our lawsuit against the vaccine mandate is part 242 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: of that strategy. Now, it's important for Heritage to proceed 243 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: with this lawsuits just inherently by that, I mean the 244 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: unconstitutional mandate by OSHA, and by that I mean OSHA 245 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: does not have the authority to issue this would violate 246 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: the sacrosank relationship between employer and employee, just to take 247 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: that all the way down to the sidewalk level. Now, 248 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: what that means is on January fourth, if there isn't 249 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: legal action that stops it, I will be required as 250 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: the president of the Heritage Foundation to ask employees about 251 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: private health data that I believe, as an employer I 252 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: do not have a right to and I happen to 253 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: believe that it is not only illegal, it's also immoral 254 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: for any employer to be asking that question. And so 255 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: if we had not proceeded with this lawsuit, then Heritage 256 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: would have relied on other very good lawsuits with very 257 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: good plaintiffs. Let me make this second point, because there 258 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: would be no reason for your listeners to know this. 259 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: Heritage has never filed a lawsuit like this. We're very 260 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: well known in the movement for the great work of 261 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: our Legal Center colleagues. They work behind the scenes. Now 262 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: we don't ever get specific about this, but I can 263 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: assure you that every month we are prepping Center Right 264 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: attorneys for hearings that they're having at the Supreme Court 265 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: and other legal settings. We always want that to be 266 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: sort of confidential. But in this case, Heritage decided and 267 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: I was encouraging our board to do this before my 268 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: first day, to file this lawsuit, because this is not 269 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: something that I believe I could comply with as a leader. 270 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: And the reason I know that is because of the 271 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: philosophy and the morality that undergoes our movement. But what 272 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: I think is going to happen is as talking to 273 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: our lead counsel yesterday, j Sekulo at ACLJ, that maybe 274 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: by December thirty yeth or thirty first we might get 275 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: movement by the Supreme Court. It's really important that that happened, 276 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: because if it doesn't, this mandate goes into effect January fourth, 277 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: and if I are other CEOs decide not to comply, 278 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: the financial penalties are staggering, and even though Heritage is 279 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: in an enviable and excellent financial position, it's the kind 280 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: of thing that month after month, year after year, could 281 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: be devastating. I think that kind of leadership is exactly 282 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: what we need now. The other big immediate topic is 283 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: the January six Committee, and you've strongly supported Mark Meadows 284 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: in his position. Can you talk a little bit about 285 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: how you see the whole January six committee process. Yes, 286 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: I'd find it abhorrent, and I'm not prone to hyperbole. 287 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: I mean that word when I say it, and I 288 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: really come at that as a historian, but also just 289 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 1: as an American guy who believes that this process. If 290 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: let's say our side, we're doing this to a Democrat 291 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: chief of staff, I would find it equally abhorrent. This 292 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: is not something that the legislative branch should be doing. 293 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: We have a judicial branch for that purpose. The second 294 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 1: thing is that this was really key for me Newt 295 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: in my deciding that I wanted to issue such a 296 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: strong statement about it. If that happens to Mark, that 297 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: can happen to any of us, and I don't want 298 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: that to happen to you or me. I also don't 299 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: want it to happen to folks left of center. I mean, 300 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: this is not a partisan statement. This is a statement 301 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: about the rule of law. It's also a statement about 302 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: getting behind us this period of political toxicity which really 303 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: is eating away at the fabric that holds America together. 304 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: And I'm hopeful, I'm hopeful that the tremendous pressure that 305 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: has been exerted on thaticulous commission will eventually maim it 306 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: and we can move on. Frankly, I'm apalled as a 307 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: historian because this is precisely the kind of abuse of 308 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 1: power that the founding fathers worried about, having watched the 309 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: British King and the British government abused power. And the 310 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 1: whole notion of this committee and the way it's been stacked, 311 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: the way it's pursued things, and the fact that other 312 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: very large activities, i mean riots, people getting killed, buildings 313 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: being burned, all those things sort of didn't exist because 314 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: there's this conspiracy between the news media and the left 315 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: to reshape our understanding of history based on their terms, 316 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 1: which are I think both profoundly false and dangerously undermine 317 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: our civil liberties. And I'm really amazed watching, for example, 318 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: the American Civil Liberties Union, which I think violates its 319 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: core reason for being on a daily basis now by 320 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: being a show for the left. I should say, by 321 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: the way, you know, we've had Hans von Spakovsky, who 322 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: is Heritage's election integrity expert, on the podcast twice now, 323 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: most recently to promote his book Are Broken Elections, How 324 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: the Left Changed the way you vote? And I understand 325 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 1: that Heritage continues to be deeply involved with an election 326 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: integrity scorecard. From your perspective, how important is election integrity 327 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: and how much will Heritage play a role in trying 328 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: to ensure that we have elections that we can believe in. 329 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: If we don't get elections right in the United States, 330 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: then all of the work that we're doing is for naught. 331 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: And I want to put a little bit of context 332 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: on that. I'm very concerned about what happened in the 333 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: twenty election. By that, I mean the process at the state, 334 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 1: county and precinct level of how votes were counted, and 335 00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 1: of course, like everyone, I had a dog in that 336 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 1: fight in the residential race, but I mean that in 337 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: a much bigger context that transcends the two candidates and 338 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 1: transcends that particular election. It was at the very beginning 339 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: of COVID, when I was CEO of Texas Public Policy Foundation, 340 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: that I turned to my executive team and I said, guys, 341 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 1: the other side is undermining election integrity. And that's exactly 342 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 1: what happened. They undermined it. I mean, I think they've 343 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: been undermining it for several years, but they really accelerated 344 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: those efforts taking advantage of COVID. As we know. I 345 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: don't have to go through those details because we know it. 346 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,959 Speaker 1: This is the point. If we continue to get public 347 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 1: opinion surveys in which both people left of center and 348 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: people right of center are telling us they don't trust 349 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: the American election process, that speaks to more than just 350 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: the elections, right. It speaks to a belief in America, 351 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: a belief that people can disagree and still trust the 352 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 1: outcome of elections. That's why Heritage put that election Integrity 353 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: scorecard together. And I will end my answer here Knut 354 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: by saying, I think it is the most important research 355 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: study that Heritage has published, at least in the last 356 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: ten years. No dinner grating the other research studies, and 357 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: the reason is this, it speaks to the moment we're in. 358 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,439 Speaker 1: But it also becomes a lever for grassroots people, for 359 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: groups on the ground to go to their state legislators, 360 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: to go to their chief election officers and show them 361 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: this is an unbiased study, it is impeccably researched, impervious 362 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: two attacks, and say this is how our state election 363 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 1: laws have to be fixed. I could not be more 364 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: proud of the work that Hans and our team did. 365 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: I was looking at that study. You rank Nevada fiftieth, 366 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: in Hawaii fifty first. When you think about it, and 367 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: I've got a very good friend, Adam Lackswall, running for 368 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: the US Center Nevada. That's a very formidable mountain to 369 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: climb if the other team has the fiftieth most corrupt 370 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: system of elections in the country, don't you find And 371 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: that's a sense that helping empower local people to understand 372 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 1: that they've got to elect state legislators and governors who 373 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 1: are dedicated to cleaning up the mess. No, that's exactly right. 374 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 1: In fact, I had an acquaintance of mind who does 375 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: some public policy work in Hawaii, email me and said, Kevin, 376 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: We're really grateful for this scorecard, But are you telling 377 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: me that elections in Washington, DC are more transparent than 378 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: they are in Hawaii. I said, yes, that's what I'm 379 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 1: telling you, because they have much better voter identification requirements, 380 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: which of course is a huge criterion in that. But 381 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: I'll say this too nudist related your home state of Georgia. 382 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: I had a lot of friends call me and say, man, 383 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: I can't believe Georgia got rated as highly as it did. 384 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 1: I said, well, keep in mind, this study reflects legislation 385 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: that was passed, and those laws were really good. They 386 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: weren't perfect, but they were really good. But also keep 387 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 1: in mind it does not great implementation. In other words, 388 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 1: that's where some other pressure needs to be exerted, not 389 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: just in Georgia, but in every state and in the 390 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: nation's capital. It's interesting because Georgia, I think had we 391 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,239 Speaker 1: had the current laws in twenty twenty, we would have 392 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: had two US Senators and carried the state for president. 393 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: I have zeroed out that the way that the consent 394 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: decree that was signed with Stacy Abrams, and the whole 395 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: way in which particularly Fulton County, the biggest count of 396 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: the state just totally abused the election process was more 397 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: than the margin by which Biden won and more than 398 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: the margin by which the two Senate races were decided. 399 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: So what you're doing and what Hans is doing is 400 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,479 Speaker 1: really really important. I do have to ask you, by 401 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: the way, since you founded a K through twelve Catholic 402 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: school and you served as president of Wyoming Catholic College, 403 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on the whole issue of critical 404 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: race theory and the kind of left wing indoctrination that's 405 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: happening in schools today. Well, in addition to elections and 406 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: the January sixth Commission, the advent of critical race theory 407 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: is something that just gives me a very high level 408 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: concerning I'm going through this as an academic, and one 409 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 1: whose academic expertise, as it were, is an African American history. 410 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: You know, back when I was publishing history, I was 411 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: publishing on slavery, the slave trade, African American culture. This 412 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: is the point. I think when most Americans hear the 413 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,959 Speaker 1: phrase critical race theory, what they hear in their goodwill, 414 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: because most Americans are very good will toward others, is oh, 415 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: this is America. Coming to grips with some ugly chapters 416 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: in our history, and it's really important that we encourage 417 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: our fellow Americans to understand that's not what critical race 418 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: theory is. In fact, it's the opposite. What critical race 419 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: theory does is define us by an immutable characteristic and 420 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: that's the color of our skin, and then worse, assign 421 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: categorize people into oppressors are the oppressed. And if you 422 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: think about it, as a fellow historian Newt, I literally 423 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: get chills sometimes. I'm even brought to tears every time 424 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,120 Speaker 1: that I read or listened to or watch Martin Luther 425 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: King's I Have a Dream speech. We have accomplished the 426 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: charge that he gave us to judge one another by 427 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: the content of our character, not the color of our skin. 428 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: And what critical race theory does is undermine that. Starting 429 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: with pre K kids, where you're telling a black child 430 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: that they cannot be friends with a white child, those 431 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: two children, these four year olds, know that is not true. 432 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: And I think that even more than any academic analysis 433 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: I could give you ought to condemn it. I'm really 434 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: grateful that Americans realized this is not America, and we're 435 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 1: making tremendous progress at rooting this out, but it does 436 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: raise larger questions about some of the curricula that are 437 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: in our schools. The problem is not just with critical 438 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: race theory, it's with the indoctrination generally, especially in government 439 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: funded schools. We work with seventeen seventy six Action, which 440 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: is sort of the countervailing effort against the sixteen nineteen project, 441 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: and they did a great job of getting over a 442 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 1: thousand people in Loudon County and having the then candidate 443 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: and young Can come And I think it was a 444 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 1: revelation to Yunkn that this many people were this concerned 445 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: about what was happening in their schools, and I think 446 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: it changed the whole course of the campaign. And I 447 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: have a hunch that next year we're going to see 448 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: a very similar kind of effort underway to really have 449 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: a direct chance to vote on whether or not you 450 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 1: want this country to brainwash your child in an almost 451 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 1: Chinese Maoist like model. It's true if someone says, well, 452 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: what do we do about it? We can't stop with 453 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: just ending the instruction of critical race theory in our schools. 454 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: We have to understand that critical race theories being in 455 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,479 Speaker 1: our curricula is indicative of a much greater sickness in 456 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: government funded schools, and it is that parents and their 457 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 1: children are not in charge of their education. Think of 458 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 1: the arrogance of teacher union leaders and saying they not 459 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: parents are in charge of kids. This is the point 460 00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: we have to harness the energy of hundreds of thousands 461 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: of parents around this country and finally get universal school 462 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 1: choice in every state. I can tell you, just to 463 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: use a Texas example, six million school aged children in Texas. 464 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 1: There basically is no school choice in Texas. A little 465 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: bit of public school choice, a few charter schools, but 466 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: there are some antiquated state laws and Texas of all 467 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 1: places against school choice. This critical race theory problem has 468 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: broken the dam and I'm really looking forward to the 469 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: next legislative session in Texas in twenty twenty three, in 470 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: which Heritage will play a role with our friends at 471 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: Texas Public Policy and American Federation for Children and finally 472 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: securing universal private school choice. One of the things which 473 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: I think looms over us is the rise of China. 474 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,719 Speaker 1: What do you see as Heritage's role in helping Americans 475 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: understand the scale of the challenge and what we need 476 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: to do in order to be successful in a world 477 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: where the Chinese Communists clearly would like to replace us 478 00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: and be the hegemonic power. I think that is no 479 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,880 Speaker 1: other organization that has written as extensively, spoken as extensively 480 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: about the threat that China poses. There are others not 481 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: criticizing them, but I will make a slight self criticism 482 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: about Heritage. I think because our scholars are so smart 483 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: and they just take for granted that China is this 484 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: threat that a lot of times what we do as 485 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: academics is lead with the nuance of how a certain 486 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: policy might need to be slightly different. And that's one 487 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: hundred percent true. And what we have to learn to do, 488 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: especially on China, is invert that. That is to say, 489 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: don't bury the lead. The lead is. And I can't 490 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: believe I'm saying this, being a son of the Cold 491 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: War and literally being worried when I was ten years 492 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: old that the Soviets going to take over the United States. 493 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: China is a much graver threat to the United States 494 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: today than the Soviet Union was during my childhood in 495 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: the seventies and eighties, and Heritage has to say that 496 00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: over and over and over. That's the first statement, and 497 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: then of course we can backfill with all of the 498 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: very correct nuance and policy prescriptions. But Americans need to 499 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: hear heritage proclaiming that from the rooftops. I think that's 500 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: very important, and I think we first have to win 501 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: the argument that this is the central crisis of our time. 502 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: And when the public comes to believe that, they will 503 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: then set the standard for the politicians. The question is 504 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: not one of educating the politicians. It's one of educating 505 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: the American people. As you know, I think we discussed 506 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: it one time. There's a remarkable book by Tom Evans 507 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: called The Education of Ronald Reagan, which is about his 508 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: time at General Electric, and in those years, Reagan learned 509 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: that if you could move the public, then the leadership 510 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: has to follow. And so Reagan actually never negotiated directly 511 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: with Congress. Reagan tried to arouse the American people. As 512 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: he once put it, his job was to shine the 513 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: light on the American people so they would then turn 514 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: up the heat on Congress. And that was kind of 515 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: his base negotiating model. I think China is going to 516 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: require that kind of approach from our side in a 517 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: big way. We've had a project which is called the 518 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: American Majority Project, which I think in many ways provides 519 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: some material that's useful to heritage into you. Our real 520 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: mission here is to try to find issues that are 521 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: sufficiently popular that you could build a long term, stable, 522 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: governing majority, and you could isolate the left. Margaret Thatcher 523 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: did this in the seventies and eighties and did it 524 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: so well that socialism was so totally discredited that no 525 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: openly left wing leader has won in Great Britain in 526 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: forty years. I think we are because of the hard 527 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: work of Biden and Paris and Schumer and Pelosi. I 528 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: think we may be about to have a similar opportunity 529 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: to define the left. And we found that if you 530 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: took free market capitalism versus big government socialism, it's actually 531 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: about an eighty two to eighteen issue, but you have 532 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: to use all three words. Socialism by itself is not 533 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: as frightening to younger Americans, but if you say the 534 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: implementing mechanism is big government, they just peel off of 535 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: it instantaneously because they know that it doesn't work. And 536 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: I think we have an opportunity to develop a shared 537 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: agenda in a sense with you, and I think that 538 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: it's really important and one of the things I'm going 539 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: to really hope that you will provide great leadership at Heritage, 540 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: for we've got to convince the Republicans that if they 541 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 1: do win, and I think they will, that in twenty 542 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: three their job should be ninety focused on America and 543 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,719 Speaker 1: only ten percent partisan. There's a real danger they're going 544 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: to get sucked into a whole series of sort of 545 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: get even partisan hearings that are fine, but they need 546 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: to be a tiny piece of the much bigger question 547 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,959 Speaker 1: of how is America going to solve its problems and 548 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: move into a twenty first century where we really can 549 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: compete head on with China and win that competition. And 550 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: I think you're coming out of the States is really 551 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: important because there are so many good ideas currently. It's 552 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: almost like there are two Americas. There's a government union, 553 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: left wing dominated, high tax, slow growth, mediocre part of 554 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: the country, California and New York being case studies. And 555 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: then there are all these states, of which Texas is 556 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: a great leader, of Florida is a great leader. Where 557 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: you see all these people. I think the top what 558 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: ten or fifteen states and employment are all Republican. There's 559 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: something there, and I'm hoping that Heritage will become a 560 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: sort of a conveyor belt of good solutions from the 561 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: states into Washington, and then together we may be able 562 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: to convince the Republicans in the House and Senate that 563 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: looking at those things, learning about those things, having hearings 564 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: that are real, to produce legislation that is real is 565 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: vastly more important than playing gotcha with a bunch of 566 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: left wing koops. I could not have said it better, 567 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: and I really do mean that. So two points reacting 568 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: to that great statement. The first is your metaphor of 569 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: heritage being a conveyor belt of state based reforms in DC. 570 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: That's the playbook. You know, people internally and externally who 571 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: haven't gotten to know me well yet, say, Kevin, you 572 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: know what's your gender wasted guys, I'm gonna adopt to 573 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: Texas and I grew up on the Gulf Coast. I'm 574 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: an open book. I will tell you exactly what my 575 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: plan is. You just outlined it with the conveyor belt concept, 576 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: and just to hang on that just a moment before 577 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: moving on to the second point. If you look at 578 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: the updated census data, that was released yesterday. It underscores 579 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 1: the point you made. One of the things that distinguishes 580 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: the level of freedom that Americans have always enjoyed since 581 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: before we were even a country is our geographical mobility, 582 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: and it's something that smart social scientists pay attention to. 583 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,439 Speaker 1: And so Americans, in other words, will always tell you 584 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: what they're thinking about politics with their feet, with their 585 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: moving trucks, and where are they moving Texas, Tennessee and Florida. 586 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,799 Speaker 1: This is not a coincidence. But the second point, I 587 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,240 Speaker 1: really want to emphasize this because you've mentioned it twice, 588 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: and I want people to understand how seriously I agree 589 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: with you comment about ninety percent on policy reform and 590 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: ten percent on partisanship. I've got no interest in Heritage 591 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: doing anything partisan. Ever, now the way we will talk 592 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: about that is we might be aggressive on conservative things. 593 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: So my aggressive statement, for example, on the January sixth Commission, 594 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: prompted several friends to call me and say, oh, does 595 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: that mean that Heritage is going to endorse a bunch 596 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: of investigations whenever the Republicans are in power? I said, 597 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 1: heck no, I want them to be focused on what 598 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: the American people need. From them, which is policy reform. 599 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 1: That's what Heritage is going to be articulating. Occasionally, we 600 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 1: will call a spade a spade on some of the 601 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,879 Speaker 1: more partisan political things, but as you said, those are 602 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: not just in the backseat, they're in the trunk of 603 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: the car. The car needs to be driving toward a prosperous, 604 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: free America that gets us to a higher level of 605 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: self governance. Now I think that's exactly right. I should say, 606 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: by the way, that on our show page we're going 607 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,800 Speaker 1: to have a link to the Heritage Foundation because people 608 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: do have an opportunity to be involved. As you know, 609 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 1: you have over a half million Americans already engaged with 610 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: Heritage and with Heritage Action. So we're going to give 611 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: people an opportunity to be on the ride with you, 612 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: if you will, because I think it's going to be 613 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: a very exciting ride, and I think you're going to 614 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: provide a very aggressive, positive approach that is going to 615 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: have a very substantial impact on America over the next 616 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 1: ten or fifteen years. So I personally think that Heritage 617 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 1: is in great hands under your leadership. Say to our listeners, 618 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: if you're a conservative and you're not a member of 619 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: the Heritage Foundation. You might take a look at the 620 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,920 Speaker 1: link we have so you can learn more about Heritage, 621 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 1: and you may decide you want to be part of 622 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: this great adventure that Kevin is going to be engaged in. 623 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: And so I want to thank you, Kevin for taking 624 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: time to share with us what you're going to be doing, 625 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 1: and I'm confident we're going to want to check in 626 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,919 Speaker 1: regularly and learn more as Heritage evolves under your leadership. Well, Nut, 627 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 1: thanks for having me, Thanks for all of the great 628 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: service that you and your wife have given to this country. 629 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,400 Speaker 1: Heritage looks forward to working with you and anyone and 630 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: happy to join you anytime to talk about whatever is 631 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:45,280 Speaker 1: on your mind. Thank you to my guests, doctor Kevin Roberts. 632 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,359 Speaker 1: You can learn more about the Heritage Foundation on our 633 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,280 Speaker 1: show page at Newtsworld dot com. Nuts World is produced 634 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: by Yinglish, Sweet sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is 635 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 1: Debbie Myers, our producer is Garnsey Sloan, and our researcher 636 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,800 Speaker 1: is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show who was 637 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at 638 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: Gingridge three sixty. If you've been enjoying newts World. I 639 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us 640 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 1: with five stars and give us a review so others 641 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of 642 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: newts World can sign up for my three free weekly 643 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 1: columns at Gingridge three sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm 644 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: Newt Gingridge. 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