Speaker 1: M. Welcome to Strictly Business, the podcast where we talk
Speaker 1: with some of the brightest minds working in the media
Speaker 1: business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. What does the
Speaker 1: Fox hit series, The Masked Singer, Pro Wrestling, and Dolly
Speaker 1: Parton have in common. They've all made it to the
Speaker 1: white hot world of n f T s courtesy of
Speaker 1: Blockchain Creative Labs, a new unit of the Fox conglomerate,
Speaker 1: pushing the entertainment business into the future as boldly as
Speaker 1: anyone in the entertainment industry today. To help me sort
Speaker 1: out what exactly that means, I'm joined by b c
Speaker 1: L CEO Scott Greenberg and CEOO and president Melody Hildebrand.
Speaker 1: We'll be back to talk with them in just a moment.
Speaker 1: We're back with Scott Greenberg and Melody Hildebrand of Blockchain
Speaker 1: Creative Labs, a unit of Fox, the conglomerate that brings
Speaker 1: you Fox Broadcast Network, Fox News Channel and much more.
Speaker 1: Welcome guys, Thank you great to be here, so just
Speaker 1: to be here, thank you, Scott. Before we delve into
Speaker 1: what exactly you did with Dolly and the rest of them,
Speaker 1: I want to hear more about the genesis of blockchain
Speaker 1: creative labs. We we don't see a lot of this
Speaker 1: stuff in media companies. Uh yeah, it's a it's a
Speaker 1: great story. And that's actually how Melody and I first met.
Speaker 1: We knew each other in the company, Uh you know Fox.
Speaker 1: Uh so my day job, my side hustle is I
Speaker 1: have the CEO of Bento Box, the animation company which
Speaker 1: Fox acquired a little bit too a half years ago.
Speaker 1: And you know, in Fox, at its core is entrepreneurial business,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's in the disrupting business. And you know,
Speaker 1: as we're looking for new things to grow, we're always
Speaker 1: challenged as leaders of what is next? What can you
Speaker 1: build a top and of the business. And we've been
Speaker 1: tracking what was going on in the space, and you know,
Speaker 1: we kind of had come to pitch the idea that
Speaker 1: this was a organic thing to grow and it kind
Speaker 1: of just the timing was right. And at the same time,
Speaker 1: uh you know, pitches the Childie Collier, the CEO of
Speaker 1: Fox Entertainment, is my boss. At the same time, Paul
Speaker 1: Cheesebros CTO was working with Melody on it, and we
Speaker 1: kind of came together and we put our heads and
Speaker 1: pulled the best in the brightest to you go figure
Speaker 1: it out. But why does this need to be a
Speaker 1: formal division? When I hear the word labs and I
Speaker 1: think of, like, you know, a skunk works operation. But
Speaker 1: why so? So the name is actually very descriptive, you know.
Speaker 1: So the name is blockchain because it's blockchain technology. Creative
Speaker 1: out our core were creative company, and you know, and
Speaker 1: we want to we believe it was a creative application
Speaker 1: and labs as we have many hypotheses that we want
Speaker 1: to prove, and ultimately we believe this is the future
Speaker 1: of content distribution, This is the future of of really
Speaker 1: the creative production process. And we think fox UM as
Speaker 1: a place who taught America had a text thirty years
Speaker 1: ago with American Idol, is the right place to teach
Speaker 1: you know, Americans how what a digital asset is and
Speaker 1: how to on it. So we thought it was a
Speaker 1: really great place to really you know, again being an
Speaker 1: entrepreneural place, and you know, from Lackland to the leadership
Speaker 1: down Paul and Charlie, you know, really let's go trailblade
Speaker 1: and find the future. And the Melody and I just
Speaker 1: kind of head to head, and you know, Melody has
Speaker 1: been a great partner in this and together we even
Speaker 1: really jumping ahead and trying to forge and figure out
Speaker 1: how to build this together and Melody, what part of
Speaker 1: the business do you come from? My original hustle was
Speaker 1: and where I still am this chief information Security officer
Speaker 1: at Fox, so responsible for cybersecurity, but I also ran
Speaker 1: product and engineering UM more broadly. And so I think
Speaker 1: another reason that Fox I think felt like it was
Speaker 1: really set up to go after this in a serious
Speaker 1: way was kind of by some of the decisions we
Speaker 1: chose not to go after like Fox does not trying
Speaker 1: to go after the streaming wars for example. You know,
Speaker 1: we're not launching a direct to consumer bundle to go
Speaker 1: head to head against some of the other media company
Speaker 1: and that really has freed up a lot of brain space,
Speaker 1: I think for us to feel like we can actually
Speaker 1: leap frog in a way and go to what we
Speaker 1: really believe it's kind of going to be the future
Speaker 1: UM in Web three and so I was running our
Speaker 1: streaming infrastructure, and I think through you know, the decisions
Speaker 1: that we made really the formation of Fox kind of
Speaker 1: post Disney transaction, that's when we decided or we kind
Speaker 1: of had the space to then make this decision that
Speaker 1: we actually want to forge into the future in a
Speaker 1: very serious way, and we had kind of the top
Speaker 1: line support and the kind of the war chest to
Speaker 1: be able to go after it. UM and that's the
Speaker 1: reason to really found a whole subsidiary to to take
Speaker 1: it quite seriously, not to treat this as like a
Speaker 1: small innovation project on a side, but rather actually revenue
Speaker 1: generating business. And when you say top line, I mean
Speaker 1: you know Scott, you mentioned Lachlin Murdoch, I mean just Rupert.
Speaker 1: I'm just curious. Are the Murdochs. Do they get Web three?
Speaker 1: Is this the passion of theirs? Absolutely, they are holders
Speaker 1: of n f T s. I can personally attest UM.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, part of what you know
Speaker 1: we're doing is really trying to bring this technology to
Speaker 1: a broader set of people UM. And it's you know, historically,
Speaker 1: I think been locked up in a you know, a
Speaker 1: group that had a very high intersection with people who
Speaker 1: had early interest in cryptocurrencies UM. And that's interesting, but
Speaker 1: we think there's just so such a broader application. So
Speaker 1: bringing web three technology to our executive team, bringing it
Speaker 1: to you know, the fans of our shows, I think
Speaker 1: it's all kind of in the spirit of democratization UM
Speaker 1: and in accessibility UM and recognizing that there are some
Speaker 1: kind of inherent frictions right now in some web free
Speaker 1: tech and we feel like we're well positioned to help
Speaker 1: kind of smooth some of that to on board everyone
Speaker 1: from you know, our executive team, but obviously much more
Speaker 1: broadly to the fans of you know, our sports entertainment
Speaker 1: news programs. So let's dig into the applications. I believed
Speaker 1: the masked Singer was the first thing you did. Uh
Speaker 1: so what was that? And why the mask Singer? Why
Speaker 1: did it lend itself to this? I'll say the Y
Speaker 1: and Melody want to tell what it was. Um. So look,
Speaker 1: the Messengers, the number one, the reality show on television.
Speaker 1: We put this business together last we started talking about
Speaker 1: this last margin. We Melody I got approval to build
Speaker 1: this really last May, and so we're trying to figure
Speaker 1: what asset was there. What was a moment? So frankly,
Speaker 1: we said she was a better place than number one
Speaker 1: to show in television on the Fox network to do it, so,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, we put an ambitious goal. And
Speaker 1: then Melody wanta talk about we built Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: we also just looked at it creatively and thought, you know,
Speaker 1: this is a show that just from the art, the visuals,
Speaker 1: the drama of the show, which has you know, a
Speaker 1: weekly voting pattern, the concept that you know, there are
Speaker 1: all these masks and characters behind the masks that fans
Speaker 1: have just identified with overtime and have such passion around UM,
Speaker 1: and just the natural reveals. We just thought it was
Speaker 1: a creatively really well you did to what could be
Speaker 1: a first for a you know around n F T
Speaker 1: s UM. So creatively there's a good good match conceptually,
Speaker 1: and I I think we and then we pressure tested that
Speaker 1: with the producer of the show, who was just really
Speaker 1: excited to dig in with us. And I think that's
Speaker 1: one of our key learning through through that process that
Speaker 1: obviously we apply to that moving forward, is that, you know,
Speaker 1: integrating this into the core of the show as opposed
Speaker 1: to kind of being this this thing that sits on
Speaker 1: the side that is disconnected from the core of the
Speaker 1: show UM is less successful than having a really tight partnership.
Speaker 1: So we've really partnered to kind of release this marketplace
Speaker 1: UM that that draws on the drama of the show
Speaker 1: that brings in the fan as opposed to just trying
Speaker 1: to reach a crypto audience. We really wanted to reach
Speaker 1: the massing or super fan and bring them on board UM,
Speaker 1: and we've created a thriving discord that allows the massing
Speaker 1: or fans to come in and communicate and connect with
Speaker 1: each other like they've never before. The show can come
Speaker 1: on and talk directly to their fans and listen to
Speaker 1: them in ways have never been possible. So this to
Speaker 1: us was really just kind of a first test that
Speaker 1: that proved certain hypotheses. We've learned a lot from it. UM.
Speaker 1: I think there's we feel like there's, you know, so
Speaker 1: much more to do, but it kind of was a
Speaker 1: first experiment. And Andrew that was this is a follow
Speaker 1: up something Melody had said, you know, we're doing this
Speaker 1: during the summer, and she was on a family vacation
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin, and we weren't sure that you know, you
Speaker 1: have early adopters of crypto, and it's very important for
Speaker 1: us that our product was cryptopure. That was that the
Speaker 1: purest felt it was authentic. At the same time, we
Speaker 1: hadn't make it accessible to our mainstream audience. And so
Speaker 1: Melody was in Wisconsin with their family and she's a
Speaker 1: great news I'm at a restaurant and his waitress she
Speaker 1: loves the mess singer, but she has no idea an
Speaker 1: n f T. So we so all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: the waitress in Wisconsin became our calling cards, like what
Speaker 1: do we do to make the waitress in Wisconsin understand
Speaker 1: what was owned n f T. And this discord was
Speaker 1: unbelievable because we had we had a lot of our
Speaker 1: moderators were crypto purists and doing the crypto conversations, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, our fans showed up and they
Speaker 1: started having creative conversations, they started hanging out together, and
Speaker 1: it grew, I mean melody, what was what was the
Speaker 1: percentage it grew. It was unbelievable what happened there. And
Speaker 1: I think that showed really what the beauty Web three
Speaker 1: is really connecting the community and the creator and the content,
Speaker 1: and that's the beauty that once one relationship is really
Speaker 1: a special thing that we're trying to figure out. What
Speaker 1: were the growth rates and that was really unbelievable. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that we we drove about quarter million installs
Speaker 1: um of wallets and for the first this was the
Speaker 1: first time for any of these fans that that we
Speaker 1: spoke to that they've ever owned owned any digital asset, right,
Speaker 1: And so this was the test, like if we actually
Speaker 1: reduced the friction to onboarding, the fans will show up,
Speaker 1: as Scott describes, because they feel like they're getting closer
Speaker 1: to the creator, They're getting closer to Fox, are getting
Speaker 1: close to the mass singer, they're getting closer to Nick Lache,
Speaker 1: you know, to the people about in the show. And
Speaker 1: so I think that was we were, I think really
Speaker 1: pleasantly surprised about how much the fans showed up and
Speaker 1: the growth rate, about people getting into both the n
Speaker 1: f T marketplace as well as the discord where they
Speaker 1: could talk about it. But I want to go back
Speaker 1: to your Wisconsin waitress who you know, I'm just picture
Speaker 1: ring I guess the average demo for mass singer and
Speaker 1: telling them to go on discord, which they've probably never
Speaker 1: even heard of. And I just think, and you know,
Speaker 1: a skeptic here, and you know rebut what my contention is,
Speaker 1: if you will, But to me, as I look at
Speaker 1: even the best applications out there for n f T s,
Speaker 1: it just feels fundamentally inaccessible, that there's too many things
Speaker 1: that are so not you use the comparison of texting.
Speaker 1: Texting is simple, it's one step. This is like a
Speaker 1: whole thing. So to some degree, you know, do you
Speaker 1: really feel in and this took place in that there
Speaker 1: is a way to get at anyone but early adopters,
Speaker 1: I do. I mean, I also think you know there
Speaker 1: is friction, but in that friction is freedom, um and
Speaker 1: we need to work through the friction to to enable
Speaker 1: these up comes. It's early days, so there's so much
Speaker 1: room for improvement and accessibility. It's the kind of thing
Speaker 1: we're working on every single day to think about how
Speaker 1: we can lower the barrier to entry. But there are
Speaker 1: a few decisions we made early on. I think it
Speaker 1: really helped. For example, we allowed social sign on. We
Speaker 1: allowed a custodial non custodial wallet, so that meant that,
Speaker 1: you know, fans didn't have to memorize their own sixteen
Speaker 1: character private or sixteen word private key. You know, we
Speaker 1: could actually manage that for them initially. And now we're
Speaker 1: giving them the opportunity to self self because custody as
Speaker 1: they get more comfortable, That to me is an on
Speaker 1: ramp that can bring more users on initially as opposed
Speaker 1: to just immediately turning off. So social sign on was big.
Speaker 1: Allowing us, you know, a custodial wallet was big. Um
Speaker 1: by allowing credit card purchases, that was big. So I
Speaker 1: think we you know, we accepted crypto. We allowed people
Speaker 1: to bring their own wallets, so we felt crypto purist,
Speaker 1: Scott said. But we also provided these more kind of
Speaker 1: web two on ramps that I think brought people in
Speaker 1: if they began to see the value, and that allowed
Speaker 1: them to stick around and they were willing to kind
Speaker 1: of work with what's on, What's next? And Discords. I
Speaker 1: think no exception, you know, Discord is was these were
Speaker 1: first time Discord users for sure. I think what they
Speaker 1: found though, was that once they got on, it was
Speaker 1: a much safer space, you know, versus somewhere like Twitter,
Speaker 1: where they're dealing with all this noise and hatred and
Speaker 1: and just just noise. And in Discord they could just
Speaker 1: be their true selves. They could talk about how awesome
Speaker 1: the Mother Earth costume was and the nesting is kind
Speaker 1: of a bananas show, um, and the true believers are
Speaker 1: true believers, and it's like it's really cool just to
Speaker 1: be able to see them being a place where no
Speaker 1: one's a hater and everyone's into the show, and everyone
Speaker 1: who's there like we did. We did token gating, so
Speaker 1: everyone was there like we could like verify like they
Speaker 1: showed up, like they were there for the right reasons.
Speaker 1: And I think the community really responded positively to that.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, well that in terms of you, we're what
Speaker 1: we're talking about is essentially a digital collectible and the
Speaker 1: collectible market in general, merchandise in general, that's only going
Speaker 1: to appeal to a super fan. And so again I
Speaker 1: go back to your comparison with texting, that's not a
Speaker 1: super fan application. That's hey, take part in the voting
Speaker 1: of American Idol. Tens of millions are going to do
Speaker 1: that here. I just can't imagine, even if the technology
Speaker 1: was more accessible, and it does sound like you did
Speaker 1: everything you could to make it as accessible as it
Speaker 1: could be, that at the end of the day, how
Speaker 1: many people really want these digital goods? So and so
Speaker 1: I think you're dead on and and the day. If
Speaker 1: the end game here was to be a digital collectical business, No,
Speaker 1: and I would not be doing this. It's not worth
Speaker 1: our time. Um, it's at least for us what inspires
Speaker 1: us to do something interesting. Um, first that we've been
Speaker 1: doing is educating a lot of what we're doing right now.
Speaker 1: In the mast take, it was educating people, but what
Speaker 1: what you actually have digital property rights? It's a hard
Speaker 1: constant to understand that actually, you know, in the virtual
Speaker 1: world now every asset has property right and you have
Speaker 1: a you know on the block shade of unique identifier
Speaker 1: which is you know, which is a really amazing concept
Speaker 1: of basically have republicated. So one that's educating and getting
Speaker 1: a trust. So there's a lot of that. I think
Speaker 1: for us, you know, like you know, you know, people
Speaker 1: understand a collectible interest in the value that so I
Speaker 1: think the market of art was accessible at the first time.
Speaker 1: People say, okay, I understand as I collected, and so
Speaker 1: for us it was an easy accessible place. But if
Speaker 1: you look at tokens that we the cards that we sold,
Speaker 1: it wasn't just a collectible had utility, And we talked
Speaker 1: about n f T s. We talked about that social
Speaker 1: clout sort of reflects like I was there. I was
Speaker 1: you know, I showed up and it it proved I
Speaker 1: was there too, might have utility. So if you collected,
Speaker 1: for us, if you collected all the animal ones, you
Speaker 1: then got access to something else. So we look at
Speaker 1: the future use of n s T s, the utilitarian
Speaker 1: access of a that might act as a ticket to
Speaker 1: open up somewhere or be it might be access to subscription.
Speaker 1: Like you know, you're you run the variety of the
Speaker 1: I P process. That's someone that may be tokenized and
Speaker 1: you might reward people for being there early and that subscription.
Speaker 1: And ultimately we see what we're excited about is because
Speaker 1: ultimately these smart contracts in the code and these n
Speaker 1: f t s can actually have huge applications in multiple
Speaker 1: industries to reduce the friction to take money back and
Speaker 1: as Mellie talked about the you know, the the freedom
Speaker 1: you take your information back, you know. So one, as
Speaker 1: a content creator, I control my control, my my my content,
Speaker 1: and I can choose what I give it to. And
Speaker 1: as a consumer more importantly, no longer are you're giving
Speaker 1: all of your information to these other companies in a
Speaker 1: change for free content. You choose what you do it.
Speaker 1: So there's all these uses that are you know, smart
Speaker 1: people out there we're gonna work with and things just
Speaker 1: trying to figure out where that's the exciting part I
Speaker 1: think collectibles today is just oh, this is the first
Speaker 1: use that we can wrap our head around. I wonder,
Speaker 1: and again, as as much as you've done to make
Speaker 1: the product accessible, that if we have this conversation in
Speaker 1: two years, three years, my guess is it's going to
Speaker 1: be a very different products simply because it has to
Speaker 1: get more mainstream. This you know, Cousto do your wallet
Speaker 1: and all like what the It just has to get simpler.
Speaker 1: Do you expect it's gonna get there? I think so.
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of companies, technology companies that
Speaker 1: are working on innovations to make this space better. Wallets are,
Speaker 1: in particular, I think are an area that if you
Speaker 1: just look in the last six months, they've gotten so
Speaker 1: much better. UM. And there is a lot more competition
Speaker 1: right now, so all the wallet companies I think are
Speaker 1: upping their games to make things more accessible. I think
Speaker 1: there's you know a lot of um security and scam
Speaker 1: risk right now, UM that I think companies are taking
Speaker 1: quite seriously that maybe they hit under invest in historically.
Speaker 1: So we're seeing just like a as there's real money,
Speaker 1: as we're bringing onboardy more fans who might be slightly
Speaker 1: less sophisticated about the risks they're entering, but that our
Speaker 1: responsibility is higher, you know, to then be able to
Speaker 1: make sure these people have a good experience. So I
Speaker 1: think there's just a ton of innovation um, that that's
Speaker 1: happening right now. And I mean, truth flick, the smartest
Speaker 1: people I know in tech are all we're in the
Speaker 1: Web three. I mean I came from like a big
Speaker 1: data startup before Fox. Um. I've run into my ex
Speaker 1: colleagues all the time now at every Web three company
Speaker 1: we talked to. So I think the talent concentration is there,
Speaker 1: the belief is there, the innovations they're still early Indians.
Speaker 1: I mean there's a long road to go. Um, it's still,
Speaker 1: without a doubt, high friction UM and I think quite
Speaker 1: difficult for an average consumer. We'll have more with Scott
Speaker 1: Greenberg and Melody Hildebrand of Blockchain Creative Labs in just
Speaker 1: a moment, and we're back with the principles at Fox's
Speaker 1: Blockchain Creative Labs, where we're talking about all sorts of
Speaker 1: interesting applications, including as we had this conversation just ahead
Speaker 1: of the south By Southwest Festival, which I should note
Speaker 1: is a Penskey Media property just like Variety. Uh, and
Speaker 1: I'm very curious to see what you guys are gonna
Speaker 1: do in terms of your official sponsorship capacity there and
Speaker 1: especially what you're doing with Dolly Parton of all people.
Speaker 1: So what tell me what the Dolly verse is going
Speaker 1: to look like. So look, we we chose as we
Speaker 1: the timing, timing is everything right, We're coming out of
Speaker 1: COVID and south Buy hasn't been live in two years.
Speaker 1: And when we started looking at the landscape of timing
Speaker 1: and we have some team members in Austin and somebody said,
Speaker 1: what about south By? And for us, south By represents
Speaker 1: everything that excites us of the opportunity web three one.
Speaker 1: It really forged the way of independent filmmakers right and
Speaker 1: really in the independent filmmaking and music. And then every
Speaker 1: you know, the tech the tech run you know, every
Speaker 1: major tech brand showed up there from Twitter and Square,
Speaker 1: so we felt what a great place to go and
Speaker 1: do something. So, you know, for us, we were exactly
Speaker 1: sure what we're gonna do, but we wanted to be there,
Speaker 1: so we wanted to be the sponsor. You know, we
Speaker 1: took the title sponsor and so for us, our our
Speaker 1: hope was, we know some of the smartest lines and
Speaker 1: entertainment and tech. So our hope was, let's try to
Speaker 1: take these two weeks, ten days, however long it is,
Speaker 1: and try to make it like an EPCO. What is
Speaker 1: how can we actually activate creators and the Big ten
Speaker 1: have a conversation Web three of how can this technology
Speaker 1: apply for tech, for media in the future, and for
Speaker 1: us It's not about this is about Fox and blockchain
Speaker 1: creative labs. I'm just gonna talk about our stuff, but
Speaker 1: we have some of other partners and petters really have
Speaker 1: the conversation. So that was our macro hypothesis and no,
Speaker 1: do you want to talk about you know what we're
Speaker 1: doing there? Yeah, I think we're really trying to create
Speaker 1: the platform that enables the musicians and filmmakers to connect
Speaker 1: directly with their audiences via n f t s and
Speaker 1: via Web three. So we've gone to all the artists
Speaker 1: we're working with UM quite a few of them now
Speaker 1: who will be UM releasing n f t s on
Speaker 1: a south By marketplace UM. And they're also going to
Speaker 1: be able to have what are known as co apps
Speaker 1: or kind of proof of attendance tokens UM, so that
Speaker 1: anyone who shows up to their show can kind of
Speaker 1: scan a QR code and get a cryptographic you know,
Speaker 1: token that proves that they were there. And that to
Speaker 1: us was it's a very Web three zeitgeist thing, but
Speaker 1: it felt so perfect for South buy you know, where
Speaker 1: there's there's this you know, the urban legend. If I
Speaker 1: was in the back bar, I saw Amy Winehouse at
Speaker 1: her first show, and you know, as I think, our
Speaker 1: team says, I think something like a hundreds the people
Speaker 1: who could actually fit the capacity of that space, you know,
Speaker 1: make that claim, but now actually we could have a
Speaker 1: real way to prove that. So about Dolly, tell me what, Yes,
Speaker 1: I think that the ideas we can have both new artists,
Speaker 1: that we can provide a platform for them to connect
Speaker 1: with their fans for the first time. Because we're going
Speaker 1: to kick off the week first weekend with that. But
Speaker 1: really the culminating event, as you say, is with Dolly
Speaker 1: on the second weekend UM and we're going to be
Speaker 1: bringing her for the first time to south Bybe. She's
Speaker 1: going to be streaming a concert on the blockchain. We're
Speaker 1: using a really innovative UM technology called the Luvo, which
Speaker 1: is a blockchain streaming Technology Media Distribution Company UM. And
Speaker 1: this I think is part of the hypothesis about how
Speaker 1: you know, this capability is so much more than collectibles,
Speaker 1: as you say, you know, it's really we think it's
Speaker 1: the future of media distribution, and we think this is
Speaker 1: the kind of the best way to kind of show
Speaker 1: that promise because we're streaming a live concert and we'll
Speaker 1: be selling her album as an n f T UM
Speaker 1: and so that's going to be kind of the Dolly
Speaker 1: verse UM. It's going to be a kind of a
Speaker 1: dedicated landing zone. Dolly will be there UM for about
Speaker 1: the concert and a talk where she's releasen a book
Speaker 1: with James Patterson and she'll be having a fireside chat
Speaker 1: about that. And we're just absolutely stoked to be a
Speaker 1: part of it, UM and to bring her stuff, to
Speaker 1: allow her fans to connect with her in a new
Speaker 1: way they never had before. And just to just to
Speaker 1: add on to that that's really important that had lost
Speaker 1: when we're talking about we're selling her album as an
Speaker 1: n f T and what that means is, you know,
Speaker 1: when you had a dvs C D, you owned it.
Speaker 1: You couldn't copy it, you could have broadcast it, but
Speaker 1: you owned it, you could possession, you could take it.
Speaker 1: When you're done, you can resell it when you buy
Speaker 1: an album. Now, on some of the other digital platforms,
Speaker 1: you don't actually own it. You have a license to
Speaker 1: use it. So if you end your subscription, you know,
Speaker 1: and you actually paid for it, you have no longer
Speaker 1: have access. So with blockchain technology, you have she We're
Speaker 1: gonna have a limited edition of these, so each one's
Speaker 1: having unique identifiers. You actually own it. You have the
Speaker 1: same property rights digitally that you would for a c D.
Speaker 1: And when you're done with it, if you want to
Speaker 1: resell it, you can. And the great thing is Dolly
Speaker 1: and us will get a royalty and that to us,
Speaker 1: we hope to be doing this with video and episode
Speaker 1: of television after things air, so it's it's the same
Speaker 1: distribution chain, but you're getting property rights back and that
Speaker 1: is such a fundamental shift, which you're super you know, luckily,
Speaker 1: and we're doing a Dolly because her, you know, she's
Speaker 1: so special and and uh and that to me is
Speaker 1: a real innovation we're really excited about. Well, but how
Speaker 1: do you I think what you're starting to get into
Speaker 1: with the resale is smart contracts. How do you envision
Speaker 1: implementing smart contract resale fees without angering consumers telling them
Speaker 1: that you know, you could own it again. But then
Speaker 1: you know, you guys are going to get a percentage.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that it's um I think consumers
Speaker 1: are gonna be psyched about it. I mean that we've heard,
Speaker 1: you know, particularly talking to fans, you know, and and
Speaker 1: talking to artists, you know, when their fans buy something
Speaker 1: like they buy because they support the fan the artists themselves, right,
Speaker 1: and we're like allowing that relationship to continue in perpetuity,
Speaker 1: and so you know, the vast majority is going to
Speaker 1: the artist. You know, primary sales, one of the artists
Speaker 1: presently taking a transaction fee, but at Christians actually fee
Speaker 1: that is way below say what Apple would charge on
Speaker 1: it in that purchase fee, or way below what a
Speaker 1: credit card would charge, you know. Even so I think
Speaker 1: there's like a small transaction fee on primary sales secondary sales.
Speaker 1: Now there's actually a way for both of the owner
Speaker 1: currently to to get the majority of the proceeds, but
Speaker 1: for Dolly to continue to get proceeds and perpetuity. To me,
Speaker 1: that just feels so much more fair. It's like that
Speaker 1: is what the future should be. I think I don't
Speaker 1: think fans are going to reject that. Um, it feels
Speaker 1: like that's about supporting the artists themselves and providing that
Speaker 1: long term relationship things that just been totally lost before
Speaker 1: because platforms essentially listed and it caused a lot of convenience,
Speaker 1: but it also left a lot of money on the
Speaker 1: table for the original creators. I just you know, I
Speaker 1: also know you guys are going to be working with
Speaker 1: an upcoming animated series C Populist from Dan Harmon that
Speaker 1: will be on the Fox Network. I guess, like the
Speaker 1: Masked Singer, I understood established property, fervent fan base, latch
Speaker 1: onto that perfect, But why a new series that has
Speaker 1: no built in I mean, I guess Dan Harmon has
Speaker 1: some thread, but I was curious why you would sort
Speaker 1: of launch with and f t S is part of
Speaker 1: a new show. It's a great question. So to be clear,
Speaker 1: we're not doing every Fox show, right, so it's not
Speaker 1: just you know, this is a check the box marketing event. Um.
Speaker 1: I think animation is different. You know, I think I
Speaker 1: ablsos you look at Dan Harmon is different. So what
Speaker 1: we look at we're looking for. If you look at
Speaker 1: our deal to w w E. You look at Mass Singer,
Speaker 1: look at Dolly Parton. We're looking for creators of people
Speaker 1: who have a pre existing audience too active. And I
Speaker 1: think you look at the comic con crowd, and you
Speaker 1: know the animation crowd, they love animation. The Fox animation
Speaker 1: is you know, it's the gold standard. So we felt
Speaker 1: that it was a great opportunity to a the fans
Speaker 1: love hearing stuff early, so and it takes us a
Speaker 1: long time to make a show. So for us, it
Speaker 1: was a great opportunity to start sharing digital art. Everything
Speaker 1: to makes digitally and this is the original hypothesis of
Speaker 1: blockchain creative labs from Bento. Everything we makes digitally ready,
Speaker 1: let's just log it on the blockchain and start sharing it.
Speaker 1: So ultimately we're gonna have provide exclusive access to fans.
Speaker 1: We might give it away to start reward people from
Speaker 1: coming in early and getting part of it, getting excited
Speaker 1: and so getting them so not just it's not markets,
Speaker 1: really becoming part of it, being part of the process.
Speaker 1: Seeing if you make people love seeing this stuff, and
Speaker 1: then ultimately you know they'll be excited and maybe what
Speaker 1: we hope to happen is those fans will be rooting
Speaker 1: for it and will actually, you know, I can't. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna give away some the cool stuff we're gonna do,
Speaker 1: but there may be some utility for being an early fan.
Speaker 1: You might get rewarded and that part of something. And
Speaker 1: then ultimately after the show airs on Fox, right, so
Speaker 1: air Sunday night, you know, and it goes on Hulu
Speaker 1: and then the when the home video window opens, you
Speaker 1: can buy the DVD. Maybe by being an early fan
Speaker 1: you can get it. So to us, that fandom, the
Speaker 1: you know, that's the crossover of gamers, tech and animation.
Speaker 1: That was the right people, and Dan is so awesome
Speaker 1: and the show is so fun and it's about you know,
Speaker 1: it's about ancient Greece, and so we're money is being
Speaker 1: invented at the same time. So it just really ties
Speaker 1: in as me really to us, I felt with the
Speaker 1: right show, the right personally do it with. And I
Speaker 1: totally get how I mean. Dan Harmon obviously has fervent
Speaker 1: fans w w E my god, those I and I
Speaker 1: grew up as a fan. They're completely insane. I get it.
Speaker 1: But I still on the collectible end of it, even
Speaker 1: with the day Harman and you know I'm a basketball fan,
Speaker 1: but I don't understand NBA top shot, Like why do
Speaker 1: I want to own the video or the gift of
Speaker 1: the lebron dunk that I could see on YouTube a
Speaker 1: billion in times? How to me that is sort of
Speaker 1: like the first hump in consumer acceptance and the main
Speaker 1: streaming of this stuff. And I don't understand how to
Speaker 1: get past that. Help me, so let me let me,
Speaker 1: let me attack it one way I think had a
Speaker 1: different way. Again, we asked about why Dan harmon something new.
Speaker 1: So one of the things we believe in is this
Speaker 1: is me the future of how shows get finance and produced.
Speaker 1: So if you're a fan of a writer, comedian, actor
Speaker 1: and they want to do something, you might not know
Speaker 1: the new show, but if you want to support them
Speaker 1: and be a patron right this technology and able to
Speaker 1: do actually early on and support them and you know
Speaker 1: currently from regular peoples, you can actually own a piece
Speaker 1: of it. But there's ways to be rewarded and supported
Speaker 1: and get it going. And so it's about the one
Speaker 1: to one relationship of the creator and his fan base,
Speaker 1: and the fans can actually support the creator to own
Speaker 1: on what they do, and that to us is the
Speaker 1: exciting thing and we get it's the future distribution and
Speaker 1: we're gonna provide a service and help do it. So
Speaker 1: to me, you know, I hear you want the NBA
Speaker 1: Top Shows and Noll can talk to about the collectibility
Speaker 1: and that stuff, but to me, it's really about the
Speaker 1: early on of this is the moment I own and
Speaker 1: to to the top show thing. A thing I can
Speaker 1: say is the ways to explained to me is you
Speaker 1: know there's only one Mona Lisa, right, There's a ton
Speaker 1: of copies around there. I know, you know, I know,
Speaker 1: you know the Perio number says the check. I own
Speaker 1: the Mona Lisa, but all the copies around there, so
Speaker 1: there's some value and cloud for owning that. That's the
Speaker 1: one thing I can say for the NVI A. I'm
Speaker 1: not a sports collector, but I can understand it. But
Speaker 1: to me, it's really about the other It's about being
Speaker 1: the patronage and being supportive and being a part of
Speaker 1: something in the community that to me is where the
Speaker 1: stuff goes. Now, what do you think I think that
Speaker 1: the best Web three projects, you know, are not purely
Speaker 1: about a collectible. They're not just about you know, a
Speaker 1: piece of art. Event I mean, there is a sense
Speaker 1: of how the community is feeling like they are a
Speaker 1: part of something special, that they are connected to the athlete,
Speaker 1: they're connecting to the league, they're connected to the artist,
Speaker 1: the musician, the filmmaker, um. And they have a relationship
Speaker 1: and ship like a bi directional relationship and never had before.
Speaker 1: And like, you know, Fox is a broadcast company that
Speaker 1: we're so used to going one too many, right, and
Speaker 1: this is where we're seeing the promise of like, oh, actually,
Speaker 1: for the first time, like in these discords, it's actually
Speaker 1: like it's bidirectional in this really special way. And so
Speaker 1: I think that's I think a lot of tashaws did
Speaker 1: an incredible job to like just bring this to the
Speaker 1: mainstream and to get people to begin to understand this
Speaker 1: ownership concept. And I think the next phase, like all
Speaker 1: the interesting projects that we're tracking that we're you know,
Speaker 1: that we have admired that we're working on as well,
Speaker 1: we'd like to think, you know, are really embedding this
Speaker 1: community concept. First, we're thinking about media distribution and entirely
Speaker 1: fresh ways. We're thinking about by passing traditional gatekeeping UM
Speaker 1: you know technologies and just shortening the distance between fan
Speaker 1: and creator, UM as opposed to just you know, an
Speaker 1: asset that I think all the questions you ask are
Speaker 1: totally legitimate. Um, but it's early it's early inning still,
Speaker 1: you know, one last question. I'm surprised we've on this
Speaker 1: far into the conversation without using the word metaverse. Um,
Speaker 1: where does all of this fit into this other? I
Speaker 1: believe connected notion that we're all navigating some interruptible three
Speaker 1: dimensional world where n f T consumption is easy and
Speaker 1: all that, or are you guys thinking that far in
Speaker 1: advance we are? I think of n f T s
Speaker 1: as kind of the fundamental building block of the metaverse.
Speaker 1: And you can't exist in this digital realm without property rights,
Speaker 1: without a sense of ownership, without a sense of uh,
Speaker 1: you know, what are assets that I own that I'm
Speaker 1: connected to? So I think this is part of we
Speaker 1: think this is a the abuilding block tick to be
Speaker 1: able to create these more immersive experiences. We're doing some
Speaker 1: a lot of technical exploration there and talking to a
Speaker 1: few creators who I think a very interesting visions about
Speaker 1: how to bring you know, their their fandom into the metaverse.
Speaker 1: And I personally there's not gonna be one metaverse, you know,
Speaker 1: I think there's going to be, you know, a heterogeneous
Speaker 1: space here with n f T S is the ability
Speaker 1: in blocks and creators are going to be able to
Speaker 1: vision I think, you know, really exciting things that no onice.
Speaker 1: We don't even know what those things are yet, but
Speaker 1: we know we're going to need to have property rights
Speaker 1: while we're there, so working on that those core underlying
Speaker 1: technologies feels like the right step. Well, I gotta say
Speaker 1: I've on this podcast and in twenty years of twenty
Speaker 1: plus years of covering the business, I've seen a lot
Speaker 1: of innovation come down the pike. I can't be any
Speaker 1: more sort of in a status suspense about how this
Speaker 1: is all going to play out. To some degree is
Speaker 1: I think you hear from some of my skepticism. There's
Speaker 1: a bit of naked Emperor to some of this. That's okay.
Speaker 1: Sometimes there's failure and success comes in different ways. But
Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to seeing how this all plays out.
Speaker 1: And thank you both for coming on the pod to
Speaker 1: talk about it. Thank you for having us for pleasure.
Speaker 1: M H. This has been another episode of Strictly Business.
Speaker 1: Tune in next week for another helping of scintillating conversation
Speaker 1: with media movers and shakers, and please make sure you
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Speaker 1: we're doing