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Speaker 1: M. Welcome to Strictly Business, the podcast where we talk

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Speaker 1: with some of the brightest minds working in the media

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Speaker 1: business today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. What does the

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Speaker 1: Fox hit series, The Masked Singer, Pro Wrestling, and Dolly

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Speaker 1: Parton have in common. They've all made it to the

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Speaker 1: white hot world of n f T s courtesy of

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Speaker 1: Blockchain Creative Labs, a new unit of the Fox conglomerate,

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Speaker 1: pushing the entertainment business into the future as boldly as

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Speaker 1: anyone in the entertainment industry today. To help me sort

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Speaker 1: out what exactly that means, I'm joined by b c

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Speaker 1: L CEO Scott Greenberg and CEOO and president Melody Hildebrand.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back to talk with them in just a moment.

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Speaker 1: We're back with Scott Greenberg and Melody Hildebrand of Blockchain

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Speaker 1: Creative Labs, a unit of Fox, the conglomerate that brings

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Speaker 1: you Fox Broadcast Network, Fox News Channel and much more.

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Speaker 1: Welcome guys, Thank you great to be here, so just

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Speaker 1: to be here, thank you, Scott. Before we delve into

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Speaker 1: what exactly you did with Dolly and the rest of them,

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Speaker 1: I want to hear more about the genesis of blockchain

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Speaker 1: creative labs. We we don't see a lot of this

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Speaker 1: stuff in media companies. Uh yeah, it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: great story. And that's actually how Melody and I first met.

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Speaker 1: We knew each other in the company, Uh you know Fox.

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Speaker 1: Uh so my day job, my side hustle is I

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Speaker 1: have the CEO of Bento Box, the animation company which

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Speaker 1: Fox acquired a little bit too a half years ago.

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Speaker 1: And you know, in Fox, at its core is entrepreneurial business,

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Speaker 1: you know, and it's in the disrupting business. And you know,

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Speaker 1: as we're looking for new things to grow, we're always

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Speaker 1: challenged as leaders of what is next? What can you

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Speaker 1: build a top and of the business. And we've been

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Speaker 1: tracking what was going on in the space, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we kind of had come to pitch the idea that

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Speaker 1: this was a organic thing to grow and it kind

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Speaker 1: of just the timing was right. And at the same time,

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Speaker 1: uh you know, pitches the Childie Collier, the CEO of

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Speaker 1: Fox Entertainment, is my boss. At the same time, Paul

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Speaker 1: Cheesebros CTO was working with Melody on it, and we

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Speaker 1: kind of came together and we put our heads and

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Speaker 1: pulled the best in the brightest to you go figure

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Speaker 1: it out. But why does this need to be a

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Speaker 1: formal division? When I hear the word labs and I

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Speaker 1: think of, like, you know, a skunk works operation. But

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Speaker 1: why so? So the name is actually very descriptive, you know.

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Speaker 1: So the name is blockchain because it's blockchain technology. Creative

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Speaker 1: out our core were creative company, and you know, and

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Speaker 1: we want to we believe it was a creative application

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Speaker 1: and labs as we have many hypotheses that we want

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Speaker 1: to prove, and ultimately we believe this is the future

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Speaker 1: of content distribution, This is the future of of really

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Speaker 1: the creative production process. And we think fox UM as

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Speaker 1: a place who taught America had a text thirty years

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Speaker 1: ago with American Idol, is the right place to teach

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Speaker 1: you know, Americans how what a digital asset is and

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Speaker 1: how to on it. So we thought it was a

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Speaker 1: really great place to really you know, again being an

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Speaker 1: entrepreneural place, and you know, from Lackland to the leadership

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Speaker 1: down Paul and Charlie, you know, really let's go trailblade

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Speaker 1: and find the future. And the Melody and I just

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Speaker 1: kind of head to head, and you know, Melody has

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Speaker 1: been a great partner in this and together we even

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Speaker 1: really jumping ahead and trying to forge and figure out

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Speaker 1: how to build this together and Melody, what part of

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Speaker 1: the business do you come from? My original hustle was

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Speaker 1: and where I still am this chief information Security officer

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Speaker 1: at Fox, so responsible for cybersecurity, but I also ran

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Speaker 1: product and engineering UM more broadly. And so I think

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Speaker 1: another reason that Fox I think felt like it was

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Speaker 1: really set up to go after this in a serious

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Speaker 1: way was kind of by some of the decisions we

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Speaker 1: chose not to go after like Fox does not trying

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Speaker 1: to go after the streaming wars for example. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're not launching a direct to consumer bundle to go

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Speaker 1: head to head against some of the other media company

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Speaker 1: and that really has freed up a lot of brain space,

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Speaker 1: I think for us to feel like we can actually

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Speaker 1: leap frog in a way and go to what we

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Speaker 1: really believe it's kind of going to be the future

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Speaker 1: UM in Web three and so I was running our

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Speaker 1: streaming infrastructure, and I think through you know, the decisions

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Speaker 1: that we made really the formation of Fox kind of

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Speaker 1: post Disney transaction, that's when we decided or we kind

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Speaker 1: of had the space to then make this decision that

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Speaker 1: we actually want to forge into the future in a

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Speaker 1: very serious way, and we had kind of the top

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Speaker 1: line support and the kind of the war chest to

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Speaker 1: be able to go after it. UM and that's the

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Speaker 1: reason to really found a whole subsidiary to to take

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Speaker 1: it quite seriously, not to treat this as like a

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Speaker 1: small innovation project on a side, but rather actually revenue

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Speaker 1: generating business. And when you say top line, I mean

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Speaker 1: you know Scott, you mentioned Lachlin Murdoch, I mean just Rupert.

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Speaker 1: I'm just curious. Are the Murdochs. Do they get Web three?

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Speaker 1: Is this the passion of theirs? Absolutely, they are holders

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Speaker 1: of n f T s. I can personally attest UM.

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Speaker 1: And I think, you know, part of what you know

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Speaker 1: we're doing is really trying to bring this technology to

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Speaker 1: a broader set of people UM. And it's you know, historically,

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Speaker 1: I think been locked up in a you know, a

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Speaker 1: group that had a very high intersection with people who

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Speaker 1: had early interest in cryptocurrencies UM. And that's interesting, but

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Speaker 1: we think there's just so such a broader application. So

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Speaker 1: bringing web three technology to our executive team, bringing it

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Speaker 1: to you know, the fans of our shows, I think

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Speaker 1: it's all kind of in the spirit of democratization UM

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Speaker 1: and in accessibility UM and recognizing that there are some

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Speaker 1: kind of inherent frictions right now in some web free

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Speaker 1: tech and we feel like we're well positioned to help

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Speaker 1: kind of smooth some of that to on board everyone

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Speaker 1: from you know, our executive team, but obviously much more

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Speaker 1: broadly to the fans of you know, our sports entertainment

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Speaker 1: news programs. So let's dig into the applications. I believed

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Speaker 1: the masked Singer was the first thing you did. Uh

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Speaker 1: so what was that? And why the mask Singer? Why

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Speaker 1: did it lend itself to this? I'll say the Y

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Speaker 1: and Melody want to tell what it was. Um. So look,

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Speaker 1: the Messengers, the number one, the reality show on television.

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Speaker 1: We put this business together last we started talking about

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Speaker 1: this last margin. We Melody I got approval to build

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Speaker 1: this really last May, and so we're trying to figure

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Speaker 1: what asset was there. What was a moment? So frankly,

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Speaker 1: we said she was a better place than number one

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Speaker 1: to show in television on the Fox network to do it, so,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, we put an ambitious goal. And

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Speaker 1: then Melody wanta talk about we built Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: we also just looked at it creatively and thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is a show that just from the art, the visuals,

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Speaker 1: the drama of the show, which has you know, a

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Speaker 1: weekly voting pattern, the concept that you know, there are

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Speaker 1: all these masks and characters behind the masks that fans

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Speaker 1: have just identified with overtime and have such passion around UM,

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Speaker 1: and just the natural reveals. We just thought it was

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Speaker 1: a creatively really well you did to what could be

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Speaker 1: a first for a you know around n F T

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Speaker 1: s UM. So creatively there's a good good match conceptually,

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Speaker 1: and I I think we and then we pressure tested that

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Speaker 1: with the producer of the show, who was just really

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Speaker 1: excited to dig in with us. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: one of our key learning through through that process that

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Speaker 1: obviously we apply to that moving forward, is that, you know,

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Speaker 1: integrating this into the core of the show as opposed

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Speaker 1: to kind of being this this thing that sits on

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Speaker 1: the side that is disconnected from the core of the

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Speaker 1: show UM is less successful than having a really tight partnership.

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Speaker 1: So we've really partnered to kind of release this marketplace

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Speaker 1: UM that that draws on the drama of the show

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Speaker 1: that brings in the fan as opposed to just trying

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Speaker 1: to reach a crypto audience. We really wanted to reach

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Speaker 1: the massing or super fan and bring them on board UM,

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Speaker 1: and we've created a thriving discord that allows the massing

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Speaker 1: or fans to come in and communicate and connect with

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Speaker 1: each other like they've never before. The show can come

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Speaker 1: on and talk directly to their fans and listen to

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Speaker 1: them in ways have never been possible. So this to

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Speaker 1: us was really just kind of a first test that

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Speaker 1: that proved certain hypotheses. We've learned a lot from it. UM.

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Speaker 1: I think there's we feel like there's, you know, so

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Speaker 1: much more to do, but it kind of was a

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Speaker 1: first experiment. And Andrew that was this is a follow

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Speaker 1: up something Melody had said, you know, we're doing this

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Speaker 1: during the summer, and she was on a family vacation

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Speaker 1: in Wisconsin, and we weren't sure that you know, you

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Speaker 1: have early adopters of crypto, and it's very important for

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Speaker 1: us that our product was cryptopure. That was that the

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Speaker 1: purest felt it was authentic. At the same time, we

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Speaker 1: hadn't make it accessible to our mainstream audience. And so

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Speaker 1: Melody was in Wisconsin with their family and she's a

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Speaker 1: great news I'm at a restaurant and his waitress she

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Speaker 1: loves the mess singer, but she has no idea an

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Speaker 1: n f T. So we so all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: the waitress in Wisconsin became our calling cards, like what

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Speaker 1: do we do to make the waitress in Wisconsin understand

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Speaker 1: what was owned n f T. And this discord was

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Speaker 1: unbelievable because we had we had a lot of our

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Speaker 1: moderators were crypto purists and doing the crypto conversations, and

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, our fans showed up and they

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Speaker 1: started having creative conversations, they started hanging out together, and

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Speaker 1: it grew, I mean melody, what was what was the

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Speaker 1: percentage it grew. It was unbelievable what happened there. And

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Speaker 1: I think that showed really what the beauty Web three

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Speaker 1: is really connecting the community and the creator and the content,

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Speaker 1: and that's the beauty that once one relationship is really

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Speaker 1: a special thing that we're trying to figure out. What

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Speaker 1: were the growth rates and that was really unbelievable. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that we we drove about quarter million installs

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Speaker 1: um of wallets and for the first this was the

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Speaker 1: first time for any of these fans that that we

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Speaker 1: spoke to that they've ever owned owned any digital asset, right,

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Speaker 1: And so this was the test, like if we actually

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Speaker 1: reduced the friction to onboarding, the fans will show up,

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Speaker 1: as Scott describes, because they feel like they're getting closer

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Speaker 1: to the creator, They're getting closer to Fox, are getting

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Speaker 1: close to the mass singer, they're getting closer to Nick Lache,

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Speaker 1: you know, to the people about in the show. And

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Speaker 1: so I think that was we were, I think really

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Speaker 1: pleasantly surprised about how much the fans showed up and

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Speaker 1: the growth rate, about people getting into both the n

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Speaker 1: f T marketplace as well as the discord where they

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Speaker 1: could talk about it. But I want to go back

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Speaker 1: to your Wisconsin waitress who you know, I'm just picture

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Speaker 1: ring I guess the average demo for mass singer and

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Speaker 1: telling them to go on discord, which they've probably never

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Speaker 1: even heard of. And I just think, and you know,

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Speaker 1: a skeptic here, and you know rebut what my contention is,

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Speaker 1: if you will, But to me, as I look at

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Speaker 1: even the best applications out there for n f T s,

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Speaker 1: it just feels fundamentally inaccessible, that there's too many things

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Speaker 1: that are so not you use the comparison of texting.

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Speaker 1: Texting is simple, it's one step. This is like a

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Speaker 1: whole thing. So to some degree, you know, do you

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Speaker 1: really feel in and this took place in that there

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Speaker 1: is a way to get at anyone but early adopters,

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Speaker 1: I do. I mean, I also think you know there

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Speaker 1: is friction, but in that friction is freedom, um and

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Speaker 1: we need to work through the friction to to enable

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Speaker 1: these up comes. It's early days, so there's so much

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Speaker 1: room for improvement and accessibility. It's the kind of thing

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Speaker 1: we're working on every single day to think about how

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Speaker 1: we can lower the barrier to entry. But there are

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Speaker 1: a few decisions we made early on. I think it

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Speaker 1: really helped. For example, we allowed social sign on. We

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Speaker 1: allowed a custodial non custodial wallet, so that meant that,

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Speaker 1: you know, fans didn't have to memorize their own sixteen

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Speaker 1: character private or sixteen word private key. You know, we

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Speaker 1: could actually manage that for them initially. And now we're

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Speaker 1: giving them the opportunity to self self because custody as

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Speaker 1: they get more comfortable, That to me is an on

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Speaker 1: ramp that can bring more users on initially as opposed

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Speaker 1: to just immediately turning off. So social sign on was big.

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Speaker 1: Allowing us, you know, a custodial wallet was big. Um

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Speaker 1: by allowing credit card purchases, that was big. So I

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Speaker 1: think we you know, we accepted crypto. We allowed people

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Speaker 1: to bring their own wallets, so we felt crypto purist,

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Speaker 1: Scott said. But we also provided these more kind of

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Speaker 1: web two on ramps that I think brought people in

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Speaker 1: if they began to see the value, and that allowed

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Speaker 1: them to stick around and they were willing to kind

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Speaker 1: of work with what's on, What's next? And Discords. I

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Speaker 1: think no exception, you know, Discord is was these were

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Speaker 1: first time Discord users for sure. I think what they

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Speaker 1: found though, was that once they got on, it was

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Speaker 1: a much safer space, you know, versus somewhere like Twitter,

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Speaker 1: where they're dealing with all this noise and hatred and

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Speaker 1: and just just noise. And in Discord they could just

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Speaker 1: be their true selves. They could talk about how awesome

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Speaker 1: the Mother Earth costume was and the nesting is kind

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Speaker 1: of a bananas show, um, and the true believers are

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Speaker 1: true believers, and it's like it's really cool just to

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Speaker 1: be able to see them being a place where no

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Speaker 1: one's a hater and everyone's into the show, and everyone

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Speaker 1: who's there like we did. We did token gating, so

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Speaker 1: everyone was there like we could like verify like they

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Speaker 1: showed up, like they were there for the right reasons.

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Speaker 1: And I think the community really responded positively to that.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, well that in terms of you, we're what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about is essentially a digital collectible and the

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Speaker 1: collectible market in general, merchandise in general, that's only going

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Speaker 1: to appeal to a super fan. And so again I

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Speaker 1: go back to your comparison with texting, that's not a

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Speaker 1: super fan application. That's hey, take part in the voting

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Speaker 1: of American Idol. Tens of millions are going to do

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Speaker 1: that here. I just can't imagine, even if the technology

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Speaker 1: was more accessible, and it does sound like you did

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Speaker 1: everything you could to make it as accessible as it

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Speaker 1: could be, that at the end of the day, how

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Speaker 1: many people really want these digital goods? So and so

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Speaker 1: I think you're dead on and and the day. If

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Speaker 1: the end game here was to be a digital collectical business, No,

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Speaker 1: and I would not be doing this. It's not worth

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Speaker 1: our time. Um, it's at least for us what inspires

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Speaker 1: us to do something interesting. Um, first that we've been

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Speaker 1: doing is educating a lot of what we're doing right now.

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Speaker 1: In the mast take, it was educating people, but what

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Speaker 1: what you actually have digital property rights? It's a hard

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Speaker 1: constant to understand that actually, you know, in the virtual

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Speaker 1: world now every asset has property right and you have

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Speaker 1: a you know on the block shade of unique identifier

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Speaker 1: which is you know, which is a really amazing concept

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Speaker 1: of basically have republicated. So one that's educating and getting

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Speaker 1: a trust. So there's a lot of that. I think

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Speaker 1: for us, you know, like you know, you know, people

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Speaker 1: understand a collectible interest in the value that so I

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Speaker 1: think the market of art was accessible at the first time.

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Speaker 1: People say, okay, I understand as I collected, and so

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Speaker 1: for us it was an easy accessible place. But if

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Speaker 1: you look at tokens that we the cards that we sold,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't just a collectible had utility, And we talked

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Speaker 1: about n f T s. We talked about that social

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Speaker 1: clout sort of reflects like I was there. I was

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Speaker 1: you know, I showed up and it it proved I

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Speaker 1: was there too, might have utility. So if you collected,

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Speaker 1: for us, if you collected all the animal ones, you

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Speaker 1: then got access to something else. So we look at

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Speaker 1: the future use of n s T s, the utilitarian

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Speaker 1: access of a that might act as a ticket to

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Speaker 1: open up somewhere or be it might be access to subscription.

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Speaker 1: Like you know, you're you run the variety of the

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Speaker 1: I P process. That's someone that may be tokenized and

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Speaker 1: you might reward people for being there early and that subscription.

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Speaker 1: And ultimately we see what we're excited about is because

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Speaker 1: ultimately these smart contracts in the code and these n

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Speaker 1: f t s can actually have huge applications in multiple

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Speaker 1: industries to reduce the friction to take money back and

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Speaker 1: as Mellie talked about the you know, the the freedom

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Speaker 1: you take your information back, you know. So one, as

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Speaker 1: a content creator, I control my control, my my my content,

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Speaker 1: and I can choose what I give it to. And

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Speaker 1: as a consumer more importantly, no longer are you're giving

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Speaker 1: all of your information to these other companies in a

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Speaker 1: change for free content. You choose what you do it.

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Speaker 1: So there's all these uses that are you know, smart

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Speaker 1: people out there we're gonna work with and things just

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out where that's the exciting part I

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Speaker 1: think collectibles today is just oh, this is the first

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Speaker 1: use that we can wrap our head around. I wonder,

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Speaker 1: and again, as as much as you've done to make

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Speaker 1: the product accessible, that if we have this conversation in

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Speaker 1: two years, three years, my guess is it's going to

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Speaker 1: be a very different products simply because it has to

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Speaker 1: get more mainstream. This you know, Cousto do your wallet

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Speaker 1: and all like what the It just has to get simpler.

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Speaker 1: Do you expect it's gonna get there? I think so.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of companies, technology companies that

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Speaker 1: are working on innovations to make this space better. Wallets are,

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Speaker 1: in particular, I think are an area that if you

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Speaker 1: just look in the last six months, they've gotten so

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Speaker 1: much better. UM. And there is a lot more competition

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Speaker 1: right now, so all the wallet companies I think are

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Speaker 1: upping their games to make things more accessible. I think

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Speaker 1: there's you know a lot of um security and scam

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Speaker 1: risk right now, UM that I think companies are taking

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Speaker 1: quite seriously that maybe they hit under invest in historically.

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Speaker 1: So we're seeing just like a as there's real money,

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Speaker 1: as we're bringing onboardy more fans who might be slightly

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Speaker 1: less sophisticated about the risks they're entering, but that our

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Speaker 1: responsibility is higher, you know, to then be able to

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Speaker 1: make sure these people have a good experience. So I

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Speaker 1: think there's just a ton of innovation um, that that's

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Speaker 1: happening right now. And I mean, truth flick, the smartest

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Speaker 1: people I know in tech are all we're in the

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Speaker 1: Web three. I mean I came from like a big

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Speaker 1: data startup before Fox. Um. I've run into my ex

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Speaker 1: colleagues all the time now at every Web three company

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Speaker 1: we talked to. So I think the talent concentration is there,

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Speaker 1: the belief is there, the innovations they're still early Indians.

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Speaker 1: I mean there's a long road to go. Um, it's still,

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Speaker 1: without a doubt, high friction UM and I think quite

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Speaker 1: difficult for an average consumer. We'll have more with Scott

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Speaker 1: Greenberg and Melody Hildebrand of Blockchain Creative Labs in just

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Speaker 1: a moment, and we're back with the principles at Fox's

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Speaker 1: Blockchain Creative Labs, where we're talking about all sorts of

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Speaker 1: interesting applications, including as we had this conversation just ahead

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Speaker 1: of the south By Southwest Festival, which I should note

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Speaker 1: is a Penskey Media property just like Variety. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: I'm very curious to see what you guys are gonna

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Speaker 1: do in terms of your official sponsorship capacity there and

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Speaker 1: especially what you're doing with Dolly Parton of all people.

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Speaker 1: So what tell me what the Dolly verse is going

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Speaker 1: to look like. So look, we we chose as we

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Speaker 1: the timing, timing is everything right, We're coming out of

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Speaker 1: COVID and south Buy hasn't been live in two years.

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Speaker 1: And when we started looking at the landscape of timing

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Speaker 1: and we have some team members in Austin and somebody said,

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Speaker 1: what about south By? And for us, south By represents

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Speaker 1: everything that excites us of the opportunity web three one.

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Speaker 1: It really forged the way of independent filmmakers right and

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Speaker 1: really in the independent filmmaking and music. And then every

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Speaker 1: you know, the tech the tech run you know, every

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Speaker 1: major tech brand showed up there from Twitter and Square,

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Speaker 1: so we felt what a great place to go and

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Speaker 1: do something. So, you know, for us, we were exactly

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Speaker 1: sure what we're gonna do, but we wanted to be there,

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Speaker 1: so we wanted to be the sponsor. You know, we

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Speaker 1: took the title sponsor and so for us, our our

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Speaker 1: hope was, we know some of the smartest lines and

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Speaker 1: entertainment and tech. So our hope was, let's try to

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Speaker 1: take these two weeks, ten days, however long it is,

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Speaker 1: and try to make it like an EPCO. What is

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Speaker 1: how can we actually activate creators and the Big ten

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Speaker 1: have a conversation Web three of how can this technology

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Speaker 1: apply for tech, for media in the future, and for

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Speaker 1: us It's not about this is about Fox and blockchain

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Speaker 1: creative labs. I'm just gonna talk about our stuff, but

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Speaker 1: we have some of other partners and petters really have

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Speaker 1: the conversation. So that was our macro hypothesis and no,

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Speaker 1: do you want to talk about you know what we're

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Speaker 1: doing there? Yeah, I think we're really trying to create

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Speaker 1: the platform that enables the musicians and filmmakers to connect

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Speaker 1: directly with their audiences via n f t s and

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Speaker 1: via Web three. So we've gone to all the artists

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Speaker 1: we're working with UM quite a few of them now

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Speaker 1: who will be UM releasing n f t s on

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Speaker 1: a south By marketplace UM. And they're also going to

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Speaker 1: be able to have what are known as co apps

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Speaker 1: or kind of proof of attendance tokens UM, so that

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Speaker 1: anyone who shows up to their show can kind of

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Speaker 1: scan a QR code and get a cryptographic you know,

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Speaker 1: token that proves that they were there. And that to

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Speaker 1: us was it's a very Web three zeitgeist thing, but

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Speaker 1: it felt so perfect for South buy you know, where

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Speaker 1: there's there's this you know, the urban legend. If I

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Speaker 1: was in the back bar, I saw Amy Winehouse at

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Speaker 1: her first show, and you know, as I think, our

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Speaker 1: team says, I think something like a hundreds the people

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Speaker 1: who could actually fit the capacity of that space, you know,

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Speaker 1: make that claim, but now actually we could have a

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Speaker 1: real way to prove that. So about Dolly, tell me what, Yes,

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Speaker 1: I think that the ideas we can have both new artists,

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Speaker 1: that we can provide a platform for them to connect

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Speaker 1: with their fans for the first time. Because we're going

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Speaker 1: to kick off the week first weekend with that. But

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Speaker 1: really the culminating event, as you say, is with Dolly

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Speaker 1: on the second weekend UM and we're going to be

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Speaker 1: bringing her for the first time to south Bybe. She's

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Speaker 1: going to be streaming a concert on the blockchain. We're

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Speaker 1: using a really innovative UM technology called the Luvo, which

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Speaker 1: is a blockchain streaming Technology Media Distribution Company UM. And

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Speaker 1: this I think is part of the hypothesis about how

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Speaker 1: you know, this capability is so much more than collectibles,

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Speaker 1: as you say, you know, it's really we think it's

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Speaker 1: the future of media distribution, and we think this is

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Speaker 1: the kind of the best way to kind of show

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Speaker 1: that promise because we're streaming a live concert and we'll

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Speaker 1: be selling her album as an n f T UM

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Speaker 1: and so that's going to be kind of the Dolly

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Speaker 1: verse UM. It's going to be a kind of a

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Speaker 1: dedicated landing zone. Dolly will be there UM for about

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Speaker 1: the concert and a talk where she's releasen a book

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Speaker 1: with James Patterson and she'll be having a fireside chat

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Speaker 1: about that. And we're just absolutely stoked to be a

431
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,439
Speaker 1: part of it, UM and to bring her stuff, to

432
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 1: allow her fans to connect with her in a new

433
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,679
Speaker 1: way they never had before. And just to just to

434
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 1: add on to that that's really important that had lost

435
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 1: when we're talking about we're selling her album as an

436
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,239
Speaker 1: n f T and what that means is, you know,

437
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,639
Speaker 1: when you had a dvs C D, you owned it.

438
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 1: You couldn't copy it, you could have broadcast it, but

439
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 1: you owned it, you could possession, you could take it.

440
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:46,880
Speaker 1: When you're done, you can resell it when you buy

441
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 1: an album. Now, on some of the other digital platforms,

442
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 1: you don't actually own it. You have a license to

443
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 1: use it. So if you end your subscription, you know,

444
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 1: and you actually paid for it, you have no longer

445
00:21:56,040 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 1: have access. So with blockchain technology, you have she We're

446
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 1: gonna have a limited edition of these, so each one's

447
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: having unique identifiers. You actually own it. You have the

448
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 1: same property rights digitally that you would for a c D.

449
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 1: And when you're done with it, if you want to

450
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: resell it, you can. And the great thing is Dolly

451
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 1: and us will get a royalty and that to us,

452
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 1: we hope to be doing this with video and episode

453
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 1: of television after things air, so it's it's the same

454
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 1: distribution chain, but you're getting property rights back and that

455
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,160
Speaker 1: is such a fundamental shift, which you're super you know, luckily,

456
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: and we're doing a Dolly because her, you know, she's

457
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 1: so special and and uh and that to me is

458
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: a real innovation we're really excited about. Well, but how

459
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: do you I think what you're starting to get into

460
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 1: with the resale is smart contracts. How do you envision

461
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 1: implementing smart contract resale fees without angering consumers telling them

462
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 1: that you know, you could own it again. But then

463
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: you know, you guys are going to get a percentage.

464
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that it's um I think consumers

465
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 1: are gonna be psyched about it. I mean that we've heard,

466
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 1: you know, particularly talking to fans, you know, and and

467
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 1: talking to artists, you know, when their fans buy something

468
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: like they buy because they support the fan the artists themselves, right,

469
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 1: and we're like allowing that relationship to continue in perpetuity,

470
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 1: and so you know, the vast majority is going to

471
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 1: the artist. You know, primary sales, one of the artists

472
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 1: presently taking a transaction fee, but at Christians actually fee

473
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: that is way below say what Apple would charge on

474
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: it in that purchase fee, or way below what a

475
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: credit card would charge, you know. Even so I think

476
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,439
Speaker 1: there's like a small transaction fee on primary sales secondary sales.

477
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 1: Now there's actually a way for both of the owner

478
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: currently to to get the majority of the proceeds, but

479
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: for Dolly to continue to get proceeds and perpetuity. To me,

480
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 1: that just feels so much more fair. It's like that

481
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 1: is what the future should be. I think I don't

482
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,679
Speaker 1: think fans are going to reject that. Um, it feels

483
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: like that's about supporting the artists themselves and providing that

484
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: long term relationship things that just been totally lost before

485
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: because platforms essentially listed and it caused a lot of convenience,

486
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: but it also left a lot of money on the

487
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: table for the original creators. I just you know, I

488
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: also know you guys are going to be working with

489
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: an upcoming animated series C Populist from Dan Harmon that

490
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,199
Speaker 1: will be on the Fox Network. I guess, like the

491
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 1: Masked Singer, I understood established property, fervent fan base, latch

492
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 1: onto that perfect, But why a new series that has

493
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: no built in I mean, I guess Dan Harmon has

494
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 1: some thread, but I was curious why you would sort

495
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,439
Speaker 1: of launch with and f t S is part of

496
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: a new show. It's a great question. So to be clear,

497
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: we're not doing every Fox show, right, so it's not

498
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: just you know, this is a check the box marketing event. Um.

499
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: I think animation is different. You know, I think I

500
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: ablsos you look at Dan Harmon is different. So what

501
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 1: we look at we're looking for. If you look at

502
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: our deal to w w E. You look at Mass Singer,

503
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: look at Dolly Parton. We're looking for creators of people

504
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: who have a pre existing audience too active. And I

505
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 1: think you look at the comic con crowd, and you

506
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: know the animation crowd, they love animation. The Fox animation

507
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: is you know, it's the gold standard. So we felt

508
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: that it was a great opportunity to a the fans

509
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: love hearing stuff early, so and it takes us a

510
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: long time to make a show. So for us, it

511
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 1: was a great opportunity to start sharing digital art. Everything

512
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: to makes digitally and this is the original hypothesis of

513
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 1: blockchain creative labs from Bento. Everything we makes digitally ready,

514
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: let's just log it on the blockchain and start sharing it.

515
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: So ultimately we're gonna have provide exclusive access to fans.

516
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 1: We might give it away to start reward people from

517
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: coming in early and getting part of it, getting excited

518
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,439
Speaker 1: and so getting them so not just it's not markets,

519
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: really becoming part of it, being part of the process.

520
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,239
Speaker 1: Seeing if you make people love seeing this stuff, and

521
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: then ultimately you know they'll be excited and maybe what

522
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: we hope to happen is those fans will be rooting

523
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: for it and will actually, you know, I can't. I'm

524
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 1: not gonna give away some the cool stuff we're gonna do,

525
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: but there may be some utility for being an early fan.

526
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 1: You might get rewarded and that part of something. And

527
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: then ultimately after the show airs on Fox, right, so

528
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 1: air Sunday night, you know, and it goes on Hulu

529
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 1: and then the when the home video window opens, you

530
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: can buy the DVD. Maybe by being an early fan

531
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: you can get it. So to us, that fandom, the

532
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: you know, that's the crossover of gamers, tech and animation.

533
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: That was the right people, and Dan is so awesome

534
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: and the show is so fun and it's about you know,

535
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: it's about ancient Greece, and so we're money is being

536
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: invented at the same time. So it just really ties

537
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: in as me really to us, I felt with the

538
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: right show, the right personally do it with. And I

539
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: totally get how I mean. Dan Harmon obviously has fervent

540
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: fans w w E my god, those I and I

541
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 1: grew up as a fan. They're completely insane. I get it.

542
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: But I still on the collectible end of it, even

543
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: with the day Harman and you know I'm a basketball fan,

544
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,239
Speaker 1: but I don't understand NBA top shot, Like why do

545
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: I want to own the video or the gift of

546
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: the lebron dunk that I could see on YouTube a

547
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: billion in times? How to me that is sort of

548
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: like the first hump in consumer acceptance and the main

549
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: streaming of this stuff. And I don't understand how to

550
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: get past that. Help me, so let me let me,

551
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: let me attack it one way I think had a

552
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: different way. Again, we asked about why Dan harmon something new.

553
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: So one of the things we believe in is this

554
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 1: is me the future of how shows get finance and produced.

555
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: So if you're a fan of a writer, comedian, actor

556
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: and they want to do something, you might not know

557
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: the new show, but if you want to support them

558
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: and be a patron right this technology and able to

559
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: do actually early on and support them and you know

560
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 1: currently from regular peoples, you can actually own a piece

561
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: of it. But there's ways to be rewarded and supported

562
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,959
Speaker 1: and get it going. And so it's about the one

563
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: to one relationship of the creator and his fan base,

564
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: and the fans can actually support the creator to own

565
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: on what they do, and that to us is the

566
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: exciting thing and we get it's the future distribution and

567
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: we're gonna provide a service and help do it. So

568
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: to me, you know, I hear you want the NBA

569
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: Top Shows and Noll can talk to about the collectibility

570
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: and that stuff, but to me, it's really about the

571
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: early on of this is the moment I own and

572
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: to to the top show thing. A thing I can

573
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: say is the ways to explained to me is you

574
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: know there's only one Mona Lisa, right, There's a ton

575
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: of copies around there. I know, you know, I know,

576
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: you know the Perio number says the check. I own

577
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: the Mona Lisa, but all the copies around there, so

578
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 1: there's some value and cloud for owning that. That's the

579
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: one thing I can say for the NVI A. I'm

580
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: not a sports collector, but I can understand it. But

581
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 1: to me, it's really about the other It's about being

582
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: the patronage and being supportive and being a part of

583
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: something in the community that to me is where the

584
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: stuff goes. Now, what do you think I think that

585
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: the best Web three projects, you know, are not purely

586
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: about a collectible. They're not just about you know, a

587
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: piece of art. Event I mean, there is a sense

588
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: of how the community is feeling like they are a

589
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: part of something special, that they are connected to the athlete,

590
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 1: they're connecting to the league, they're connected to the artist,

591
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: the musician, the filmmaker, um. And they have a relationship

592
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: and ship like a bi directional relationship and never had before.

593
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: And like, you know, Fox is a broadcast company that

594
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: we're so used to going one too many, right, and

595
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: this is where we're seeing the promise of like, oh, actually,

596
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: for the first time, like in these discords, it's actually

597
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: like it's bidirectional in this really special way. And so

598
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: I think that's I think a lot of tashaws did

599
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: an incredible job to like just bring this to the

600
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: mainstream and to get people to begin to understand this

601
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: ownership concept. And I think the next phase, like all

602
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: the interesting projects that we're tracking that we're you know,

603
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: that we have admired that we're working on as well,

604
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: we'd like to think, you know, are really embedding this

605
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,719
Speaker 1: community concept. First, we're thinking about media distribution and entirely

606
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: fresh ways. We're thinking about by passing traditional gatekeeping UM

607
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: you know technologies and just shortening the distance between fan

608
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: and creator, UM as opposed to just you know, an

609
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: asset that I think all the questions you ask are

610
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: totally legitimate. Um, but it's early it's early inning still,

611
00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: you know, one last question. I'm surprised we've on this

612
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: far into the conversation without using the word metaverse. Um,

613
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: where does all of this fit into this other? I

614
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: believe connected notion that we're all navigating some interruptible three

615
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: dimensional world where n f T consumption is easy and

616
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: all that, or are you guys thinking that far in

617
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: advance we are? I think of n f T s

618
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: as kind of the fundamental building block of the metaverse.

619
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: And you can't exist in this digital realm without property rights,

620
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: without a sense of ownership, without a sense of uh,

621
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: you know, what are assets that I own that I'm

622
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: connected to? So I think this is part of we

623
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: think this is a the abuilding block tick to be

624
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: able to create these more immersive experiences. We're doing some

625
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: a lot of technical exploration there and talking to a

626
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: few creators who I think a very interesting visions about

627
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: how to bring you know, their their fandom into the metaverse.

628
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: And I personally there's not gonna be one metaverse, you know,

629
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: I think there's going to be, you know, a heterogeneous

630
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: space here with n f T S is the ability

631
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: in blocks and creators are going to be able to

632
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: vision I think, you know, really exciting things that no onice.

633
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: We don't even know what those things are yet, but

634
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: we know we're going to need to have property rights

635
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: while we're there, so working on that those core underlying

636
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: technologies feels like the right step. Well, I gotta say

637
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: I've on this podcast and in twenty years of twenty

638
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: plus years of covering the business, I've seen a lot

639
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: of innovation come down the pike. I can't be any

640
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,479
Speaker 1: more sort of in a status suspense about how this

641
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: is all going to play out. To some degree is

642
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: I think you hear from some of my skepticism. There's

643
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: a bit of naked Emperor to some of this. That's okay.

644
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: Sometimes there's failure and success comes in different ways. But

645
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Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to seeing how this all plays out.

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Speaker 1: And thank you both for coming on the pod to

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Speaker 1: talk about it. Thank you for having us for pleasure.

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Speaker 1: M H. This has been another episode of Strictly Business.

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Speaker 1: Tune in next week for another helping of scintillating conversation

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Speaker 1: with media movers and shakers, and please make sure you

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Speaker 1: subscribe to the podcast to hear future episodes. Also leave

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Speaker 1: a review in Apple Podcasts and let us know how

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Speaker 1: we're doing