WEBVTT - Katie Couric on shaking the morning show stigma 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:06.120 What do you do when life doesn't go according to 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:09.760 plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one, 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:14.080 or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:18.759 is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:21.599 by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:23.840 with a guest to talk about the times they were 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:26.920 knocked off course and what they did to move forward. 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:33.080 Some stories are funny, others are gut wrenching, but all 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:38.320 are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:42.800 every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:50.360 answers one question, now what. I remember some of my 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:56.120 first interviews with you. We both had very different hair, Yeah, yeah, 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:58.160 and very different shoulder pads. 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:01.760 That that's true. I remember when you did. I remember 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:06.000 when I started it ABC, and I think that fall 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:10.839 we all went and bought Calvin Klein jeans, because that 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:15.520 must have been the Yearbrook you did. Nothing comes between 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:19.680 me and my Calvins. Was that nineteen eighty It was eighty. Yeah. 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:23.560 My friend Eileen O'Connor, she ran the teleprompter, and I 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.840 think she was still a student at Georgetown. But Eileen 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:31.039 and I were obsessed with Calvin Klein Genes. I just 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:34.560 remember seeing that ad and we all went out and 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:37.520 got a pair, and I have to say, maybe Eileen did, 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:41.040 but I certainly didn't look like you did in alls Brook. 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:44.039 I don't know about that. That is weird. I just 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.600 found my actual calvins. I had three pairs that my 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:51.800 mother kept from the commercial, and one of them I 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:57.840 gave to the met as one does, yeah, clearly, and 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:01.120 the other two I'm going to frame in plexiglass. 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:03.480 I was going to say, you should give a pair 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:05.000 to each of your daughters. 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:11.160 Hello, my beautiful naw At family. Before we get started, 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.360 I wanted to let you know that this will be 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.680 the final episode of the show, which I have loved 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.280 sharing with you over the past year. It's been a 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:22.120 wonderful ride, and my team and I are retooling a 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:26.120 few things and saying goodbye for now. I'm so grateful 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:29.480 for all of you and for your listenership, and equally 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.600 grateful to my last guest for helping me go out 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:36.880 with a bang. Katie Couric is an award winning journalist, 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:42.040 a trailblazer, an entrepreneur, a prolific fundraiser for cancer research, 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:45.840 and she is so much more we connected professionally many 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:48.920 years ago, and I am so fortunate that our working 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:53.440 relationship has developed into a friendship. Katie's resume is extensive. 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.040 She spent more than a decade with The Today Show, 0:02:56.360 --> 0:03:01.239 was the first woman to anchor CBS News, and more 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:06.200 recently founded her own company, Katie Kiric Media. I'm in 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:08.480 awe of her and so thrilled that she was able 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:11.680 to join the show. So, without further ado, here is 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:18.200 Katie Kiric. Well, thank you so much for doing this. 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.360 Oh my god, of course, I'm thrilled to talk to you, 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:23.960 because you know, I'm such a big fan, and I 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.360 think I'm glad that people are kind of, you know, 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:29.800 getting to know you and your personality because you're so funny. 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.520 And I don't think people I think like when obviously 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:36.720 suddenly Susan and you've had other roles, but I don't 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:40.320 think everyone appreciates your sense of humor or the fact 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:42.120 that you have such a good sense of humor. 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:44.600 Well, thank you for that. I think, you know, I 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:47.160 think it's anyway, it's odd. I think it's because if 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.920 you've been sort of positioned a certain way for a 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:52.760 good portion of your life, that is just what people 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.680 imprint on and you know you can't I guess you 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:59.280 can't be labeled pretty and funny, although I mean luci 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:03.040 Oball was was like a beauty queen when she started. 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.280 I don't know why people have to put people in 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:11.080 boxes and don't appreciate that, as Walt Whitman said, we 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:13.440 contain multitudes, right, right. 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:17.119 I mean, I think it's easier for people because also 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:21.760 if you really, if you really take in all that 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:24.880 we're all capable of, it's a lot of pressure for people. 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:28.159 And yeah, I'm really kind of I have to say 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.400 I was a bit intimidating, not a bit, a lot 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:35.000 intimidated when I really heard, only because not as a friend, 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.320 because as a friend and like a girlfriend, I know 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.320 I can call you and we can be girls, and 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:44.120 we've talked about a multitude of private things together. But 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.560 it just, you know, you set the tone, and you're 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:51.600 the front runner for so many women, and the fact 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.160 that I got intimidated by the fact that I thought 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:55.800 you were going to be that I knew you were 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:58.240 going to be on the show, it struck me. I thought, 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:02.120 I wonder if she ever gets intimidated by interviews that 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:05.320 she has to give. Has there been anybody that's been 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:06.839 intimidating to you? 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:10.880 I think I think when I have to tackle topics 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.719 that I don't know a great deal about that I 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:17.359 feel like the learning curve is really steep. You know, 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:21.280 if it's somebody on a specific aspect of foreign policy 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:25.280 that I might not be uber knowledgeable about, or a 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:28.760 medical thing that I don't know a lot about. Sometimes 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.120 I do get intimidated, but I think at this point 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:36.480 you just let your natural curiosity take over. You have 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:39.520 a conversation, and I think the goal is to really 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:45.040 make things accessible and understandable to people. So I remember 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:49.719 Tom Friedman said to explain things simply, you have to 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:54.599 understand them deeply. So I try to strike that balance 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:59.200 of understanding something and then synthesizing it and distilling it. 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:05.159 That's a tall order, but the research involved, I think 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:09.320 is daunting, and I'm sure you know, to make it 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:13.080 accessible for other people is really is really the gift 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:18.240 of being a journalist. You wanted to be a journalist 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:22.240 from the time you were a little kid. I mean 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.600 you're you're the youngest of four, correct. You grew up 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:28.400 in Virginia, and you said you wanted to be a 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.160 journalist from a young age. What how did you know 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:34.760 that that's what you wanted. What was it about journalism 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:35.680 that intrigued you. 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:38.440 I think I wanted to do something that had to 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:42.240 do with language and writing, and I think it was 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:46.200 the process of elimination. Honestly, I wasn't very strong in 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.039 math and science. I hate to say that because that's 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:54.839 such a stereotypical thing, but I really gravitated towards words 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:59.640 and language and writing and more creative pursuits. So I 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:03.479 knew I wanted to do something that involved some form 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:07.599 of communication, whether it was writing or radio or talking. 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:12.000 And I think because my dad was a print journalist 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.880 early in his career, and he saw that I wrote 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:19.040 well and I wrote quickly because I was such a 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:21.840 procrastinator as a kid, I'd wait till the last minute 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.760 to do my homework, but I was able to write 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:28.880 things under pressure. And I think he thought, Wow, journalism 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.240 might be a really great career for you. I mean, 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:34.000 he didn't say that, but we sort of went in 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:37.520 that direction. And I got internships when I was in college, 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:40.800 and I worked at three different radio stations, and I 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.600 wrote for my school newspaper and at Uva. I wrote 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:47.280 for The Cavalier Daily, so I really enjoyed it. And 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.080 you know, I think when you are lucky enough to 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:55.160 find a job you love, that is such a gift. 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:58.440 Do you remember the first time that you fell in 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:02.040 love with the idea of news, like the news moment 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:05.200 that made you just fall in love with that medium. 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:08.280 I don't remember if there was one particular moment. I 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:14.440 just loved every aspect of jumping into a local news van, 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:18.600 not knowing what you were going to find when you 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:24.320 stopped to cover a story, having to jump out, get 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.960 your bearings, figure out what was going on, find people 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:31.760 to talk to, start painting a picture of the story 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.960 in your mind, listening to the sound bites on your 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:39.040 little mini tape recorder on the way home, writing the script, 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:42.559 figuring out what you're maybe if you're going live from 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:46.040 the location, what your you know your live intro is 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:48.120 going to be, what your outro is going to be, 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:54.160 and doing it than pressure. Oh yeah, it's so fun. 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:59.280 It's such an adrenaline rush and it's just exciting. And 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:04.440 then you've got this thing that you've produced and it's 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:08.760 done and it's over and you can go home and 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:09.640 leave it behind. 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:13.880 It's awesome, it's amazing. And also just the thinking on 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:16.280 your feet and that being able to adapt. I mean, 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:19.880 it's our version as an actor of improv. You know, 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:23.520 you just it's yes, and you know, you never shut 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.720 anything down. It's always what's the next thing. But it's 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:31.199 interesting though I don't think you know, my daughter, I 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:34.040 always things happen and things don't happen for them, and 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:36.320 I try to tell them all the time that you know, 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:42.120 rejection is just part of growth, and especially in this medium, 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:44.440 what you're what you I mean, there must have been 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:48.760 so much rejection and part of what I wanted to 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:52.760 do with this show is to normalize rejection, you know, 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:56.200 to show people that you can recover from it, that 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:58.640 it happens to all of us, and it's how you 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:02.280 respond and how you can that really reveals who you are. 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:05.760 That's so true. That's so true. And I mean from 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:09.640 the get go, I had people telling me, you know, oh, 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:11.880 you're never going to make it in the business. The 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:16.520 president of CNN when I did a really bad report, 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:22.319 like I was too young and really bad, and he 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:26.040 called the assignment desk at CNN in Washington, said he 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.440 never wanted to see me on the air again, talk 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:33.880 about like deflating. And you know, I had a really 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:38.199 challenging time when I went to CBS, both internally with 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:42.840 the politics there and externally with people I think wanting 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.720 to tear me down and not picking up what I 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:49.800 was putting down in terms of trying to retool an 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:55.359 evening news broadcast. And it's hard, and you're right, everybody 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:59.640 deals with rejection or disappointment or dashed hopes at some 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:03.120 point in their lives and it's no fun, but it's 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:04.160 just part of life. 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:05.719 How did you move on from it? Though? 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:08.960 What was I mean? I think I had different reactions 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:12.560 that differed, two different disappointments, Like when the president of 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:15.240 CNN said he never wanted to see me on the 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:19.440 air again, I was just like devastated. But I also thought, 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:23.480 maybe he's right, Maybe I need more experience, Maybe I'm 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:26.520 not ready and I just need to do it more. 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:29.560 And that's when I moved to Atlanta and became a 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:33.000 producer and started doing on air stuff little by little 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.559 and found a mentor. That's when I went to Miami 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.439 and became a local news and just churned out story 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:41.320 after story, and you know, I agree with Malcolm Gladwell, 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:44.240 it takes about ten thousand hours to get good at anything, 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:47.480 and I just thought, you know, I'm just I need 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:51.320 more practice, I need more experience. So I took it personally, 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.600 and yet I didn't take it personally, and I tried 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.880 to figure out, well, how could I change the circumstances 0:11:57.920 --> 0:11:58.959 I found myself in. 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.320 You were interviewed by people after you left CBS and 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:14.800 you said you didn't think that people really internally ever, 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.719 really accepted you. And you said I thought we were 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:22.559 much further along when it came to sexism. What prompted 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:24.760 that observation. 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.000 Well, I think if you had sort of been in 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:31.920 my shoes during those five years. And I think a 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:36.679 lot has changed. I think that sexism is still one 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:40.000 of the most acceptable isms, less so than it used 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.880 to be. But I think that I got criticized for 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:46.920 what I wore my first night on the evening news. 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:50.520 I got criticized for the way I held my hands, 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:55.040 these really dopey things that a mail anchor would just 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.480 never be subjected to. I mean, let's face it, it's 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:02.199 more interesting, I think, to look at women on television 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:06.880 because there's more variety, you know, men just look generally 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.800 a certain way, wear a certain suit and a tie, 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:14.360 and and I think that not everyone. And by the way, 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.080 I had a lot of friends within CBS, but a 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.880 lot of people I think sort of didn't like outsiders. 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.839 They are it's a pretty insular place. People go there 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.160 and they kind of spend their entire careers there. So 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:32.679 I had the outsider status, I had the first woman's status. 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:37.440 I had the morning show albatross around my neck that 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:40.520 somehow I lack ravitas, which I always say is Latin 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:45.400 for testicles, and you know, and that and that somehow 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:50.080 I wasn't enough of a you know, a serious journalist 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:54.840 to handle the CBS evening news, which was just honestly boloney. 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.440 So I think there were a lot of and not 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.120 just I think there were a lot of biases that 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:07.000 honestly infected or affected the way people saw me in 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:07.600 that role. 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.599 It just explained to me what the morning show stigma. 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:17.719 Oh well, I think that people, you know, even though 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.680 Tom Brokaw did the Today Show, for example, and even 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:26.200 John Chancellor did the Today Show, I think there is 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:30.760 a feeling that the morning shows are very fluffy and 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:34.840 that they don't deal with serious news, and they're not 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:39.320 They're not done or anchored by serious people. I think 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:43.840 that's an unfair characterization because I did so many serious 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.600 interviews during my fifteen years at the Today Show, and 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:50.360 I did many dateline specials. I interviewed Supreme Court justices 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:55.720 and presidents and world leaders. But I think that it 0:14:55.960 --> 0:15:00.840 just has this kind of unfair sort of promoter as 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:04.320 kind of a you know, a light, fluffy show. 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:06.040 It's entertainment, not news. 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:10.520 Yeah. Yeah, But I was really really proud of working 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:13.760 on The Today Show and really proud of a lot 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.400 of the work we did and the stories and the 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:20.080 serious stories I covered, from Oklahoma City bombing to nine 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:24.480 to eleven to presidential elections to all kinds of really 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:25.560 important stories. 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.280 I mean, you've covered so much, and I'm curious about 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:32.760 how you cover some of the more divisive issues without 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:34.320 inserting your personal opinion. 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:38.480 I honestly try to understand what the person is saying, 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:42.880 and I try to learn from that and ask questions 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.680 that I think other people would ask. I do try to, 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.880 you know, have a vulcan mind meld with people who 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:52.960 might be watching, and I try to be objective, but 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:55.640 you know, I have at this point in my life. 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:58.680 I'm sixty six years old. There are certain things that 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:04.160 I really believe in it and it is hard to sometimes, 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:08.280 like interview somebody who is against abortion. You know, I'm 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:12.840 for reproductive rights. I am for stricter gun laws. I 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:16.320 have I think, at this point in my career, been 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.760 able to say there's some things that I really deeply 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:25.600 believe in, and so I think I do have biases 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:29.479 when it comes to those topics. But in other instances, 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:35.200 I just try to listen and challenge when necessary and 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:40.200 in a respectful way, you know, have a conversation with people. 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:44.360 But you know, as I think, there's no there's no 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:48.960 such thing as true objectivity, you know, unless you're doing 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:52.160 the very strict to what when we're why, if you're 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:56.960 trying to put any context or any kind of explanation 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:01.840 behind an event, it's inevitable that your perspective is going 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.080 to be influenced by your point of view in some way. 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.320 And do you feel like you are now there's areas 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:12.719 of your personality that you can more freely and unapologetically 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:15.600 share now that you might not have in your early days. 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.280 And news yeah, they were like you know, there were 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:22.720 third rails like you couldn't talk about gun violence, and 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:26.320 I did a whole documentary about why gun violence was 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.679 out of control in this country. You know, I couldn't 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.240 have done that anchoring the Today Show. I could not 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.000 have had a strong opinion. 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:38.160 With your media company. Now you can, yeah, put out 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.680 the messaging that you you believe in, and you know, well, 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:42.000 you know. 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:46.440 Brooke, I was able to shape the broadcast slightly differently 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.879 when I was at CBS. I could focus more on 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.160 women's stories. You know, we did something on dating violence, 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.960 we did something on you know, sexual assault in the military. 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:59.639 I did, you know, stories that I think a male 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:04.520 anger girl would not have necessarily thought about. And so 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:09.119 I was able to make my mark in some ways 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:13.199 when it came to story selection. So I feel like 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:18.119 I wasn't totally, you know, hamstrung by being in a 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:20.120 more traditional media environment. 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:25.800 Well, I'm relieved and glad to hear that. I think 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:31.119 you're a very strong business woman insofar as the way 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:36.280 you handled this fascination with your personal life in a 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:40.159 way that made it not get stolen from you. You know. 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.000 I mean I've felt that my whole life. But I'm 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:45.480 I'm not in New I'm not in news, you know, 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:51.320 but that that that piece is usually not something that 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:55.280 gets it's usually that that personality. And then the private 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:57.399 life is the private life. But you've done such a 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:02.160 sort of beautiful job of taking trials and tribulations, and 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:05.440 you've been open about so much that you went through 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:10.760 personally in your life, but also making them teaching moments 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:16.080 and sharing them for other people's benefit. And I'm curious 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:19.199 as to how you were able to reconcile that. 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:24.199 Yeah, Well, you know, I think that morning television is 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:29.560 such a different animal. You develop these parasocial relationships with 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.240 the anchors. You do get to know them. You know. 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:34.399 People would say to me, I feel like I know you, 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:37.159 and I said, I'd always say, in many ways, I 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.240 think you do. Because they'd see you in serious moments, 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:44.080 they'd see you having fun, they'd see you having casual 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:49.280 chit chat with your colleagues. And I think maybe there 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:53.240 was a lot of interest in my personal life because 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:58.439 I was very authentic to who I was on television 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.240 that who I was off camera was really there was 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:05.359 no difference really to how I mean. There were some 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.280 limitations of things I would do on television that I 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.399 wouldn't do off camera. But I was very much the 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:15.680 same person with the same persona. And I think when 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:19.359 people saw me pregnant, they were with me when I 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:23.600 had both of my girls. They were with me when 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:25.320 my husband Jay got sick. 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:26.479 You know. 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.720 There I was a forty one year old widow with 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:35.960 two children, six and two, and I think people felt 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:40.719 terrible for me in the most loving way. I mean, obviously, 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:43.159 how can you say that about millions of people, But 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:48.840 I did feel this support coming to me from from 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:52.879 the Today Show viewers and the audience that you know 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:55.560 does welcome you and your home and their home like 0:20:55.640 --> 0:21:01.680 your kind of family. And having seen that terrible thing 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:07.399 happened to Jay, and then to see me try to 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:11.920 be resilient and move forward, then I think people became 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:15.600 interested in my love life. Like you know, it made 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:19.520 for good tabloid fodder, and you know, it was just 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:23.320 part of being I think at the time where morning 0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:26.720 shows had a real place in the culture, more so 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:29.920 than I think they do today because of the fragmentation 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:35.119 of media, and I think people just were interested in 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:38.680 that how I was going to move forward. I mean, 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:43.760 I mean sometimes it sometimes it felt invasive, but during 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:48.960 the trauma of losing Jay. It was so helpful, It 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:54.680 was so comforting. I felt so cared about by complete 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:59.240 strangers who sent me mass cards and sympathy notes and 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:03.679 store worries about loss that they had experienced. It was 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:07.240 actually really beautiful. And I still have many of those 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:12.679 letters in big tupperware bins in my basement. And you know, 0:22:12.920 --> 0:22:15.840 I at Jay's funeral, I asked everyone who came to 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:20.760 write letters to ellieen Carey because I knew that they 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:24.679 were not going to have the privilege of really getting 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:27.960 to know their father, and so to be able to 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:34.840 have those that people wrote such beautiful, thoughtful notes and 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:41.600 letters and multi page letters to the girls. That is 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:47.040 really love. That's compassion, that's empathy. And I felt it 0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:51.719 so strongly, and you know, a loss, it was a 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:57.439 terrible loss, but it did help and it was comforting 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:02.119 to know that people were out there holding me in 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:05.960 their hearts. 0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:12.399 You know, when I had very severe postpartum and wrote 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:14.679 and I wrote about it, I still right. 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:16.160 You came on the Today Show. 0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:20.919 I did. But to this day, people come, women come 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:23.200 up to me and tears in their eyes and they 0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:26.280 and they cry and they say thank you. And you know, 0:23:26.320 --> 0:23:30.640 and it's that there's something to be said for shared 0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:34.520 loss or shared experience, or that you know you're not alone, 0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:38.840 and that you know to be willing to be open 0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:42.720 to that I think is obviously a sign of who 0:23:42.800 --> 0:23:44.840 you are as a person. Well. 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:47.440 I think especially you know, when it comes to taboo 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:52.480 topics like postpartum depression that people are so terrified of 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:57.480 and so frightened by, and to break the stigma and 0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:00.679 to let people share and know it's okay and that 0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:04.520 there's help. I mean, you did a tremendous public service 0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:07.200 and I hope that I did the same with colon cancer. 0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:11.280 You know, nobody talked about colon cancer when Jay got 0:24:11.320 --> 0:24:15.520 sick and died, and nobody really talked about the fact 0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:19.680 that it's highly preventable if you get screened. And you know, 0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:23.760 I think when you're a public figure, you have a platform, 0:24:24.000 --> 0:24:27.800 and with that platform comes to responsibility and if you 0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:32.560 can educate people and arm them with information that will 0:24:32.600 --> 0:24:36.920 help them, that could even save their lives. I hate 0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:39.560 to say it, but I think it's really selfish to 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:43.280 not share, not to share your experience. 0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:45.360 And I you know, I call this show now What 0:24:45.600 --> 0:24:50.280 because it's really about those pivotal times in our lives 0:24:50.320 --> 0:24:55.120 when something very massive happens and we really are are 0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:57.959 the rug is pulled out from underneath us, and we 0:24:58.000 --> 0:25:00.320 are thinking, oh shit, what do I you know? Now? 0:25:00.320 --> 0:25:04.000 What do I do? And I imagine you've had many 0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:07.560 now what moments? Was that one of your biggest? Now 0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:10.040 what moments? How did you move forward from that? 0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:13.119 I think when you have children, you really have no 0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:17.480