Speaker 1: What do you do when life doesn't go according to
Speaker 1: plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one,
Speaker 1: or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this
Speaker 1: is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told
Speaker 1: by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down
Speaker 1: with a guest to talk about the times they were
Speaker 1: knocked off course and what they did to move forward.
Speaker 1: Some stories are funny, others are gut wrenching, but all
Speaker 1: are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and
Speaker 1: every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice
Speaker 1: answers one question, now what. I remember some of my
Speaker 1: first interviews with you. We both had very different hair, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and very different shoulder pads.
Speaker 2: That that's true. I remember when you did. I remember
Speaker 2: when I started it ABC, and I think that fall
Speaker 2: we all went and bought Calvin Klein jeans, because that
Speaker 2: must have been the Yearbrook you did. Nothing comes between
Speaker 2: me and my Calvins. Was that nineteen eighty It was eighty. Yeah.
Speaker 2: My friend Eileen O'Connor, she ran the teleprompter, and I
Speaker 2: think she was still a student at Georgetown. But Eileen
Speaker 2: and I were obsessed with Calvin Klein Genes. I just
Speaker 2: remember seeing that ad and we all went out and
Speaker 2: got a pair, and I have to say, maybe Eileen did,
Speaker 2: but I certainly didn't look like you did in alls Brook.
Speaker 1: I don't know about that. That is weird. I just
Speaker 1: found my actual calvins. I had three pairs that my
Speaker 1: mother kept from the commercial, and one of them I
Speaker 1: gave to the met as one does, yeah, clearly, and
Speaker 1: the other two I'm going to frame in plexiglass.
Speaker 2: I was going to say, you should give a pair
Speaker 2: to each of your daughters.
Speaker 1: Hello, my beautiful naw At family. Before we get started,
Speaker 1: I wanted to let you know that this will be
Speaker 1: the final episode of the show, which I have loved
Speaker 1: sharing with you over the past year. It's been a
Speaker 1: wonderful ride, and my team and I are retooling a
Speaker 1: few things and saying goodbye for now. I'm so grateful
Speaker 1: for all of you and for your listenership, and equally
Speaker 1: grateful to my last guest for helping me go out
Speaker 1: with a bang. Katie Couric is an award winning journalist,
Speaker 1: a trailblazer, an entrepreneur, a prolific fundraiser for cancer research,
Speaker 1: and she is so much more we connected professionally many
Speaker 1: years ago, and I am so fortunate that our working
Speaker 1: relationship has developed into a friendship. Katie's resume is extensive.
Speaker 1: She spent more than a decade with The Today Show,
Speaker 1: was the first woman to anchor CBS News, and more
Speaker 1: recently founded her own company, Katie Kiric Media. I'm in
Speaker 1: awe of her and so thrilled that she was able
Speaker 1: to join the show. So, without further ado, here is
Speaker 1: Katie Kiric. Well, thank you so much for doing this.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, of course, I'm thrilled to talk to you,
Speaker 2: because you know, I'm such a big fan, and I
Speaker 2: think I'm glad that people are kind of, you know,
Speaker 2: getting to know you and your personality because you're so funny.
Speaker 2: And I don't think people I think like when obviously
Speaker 2: suddenly Susan and you've had other roles, but I don't
Speaker 2: think everyone appreciates your sense of humor or the fact
Speaker 2: that you have such a good sense of humor.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you for that. I think, you know, I
Speaker 1: think it's anyway, it's odd. I think it's because if
Speaker 1: you've been sort of positioned a certain way for a
Speaker 1: good portion of your life, that is just what people
Speaker 1: imprint on and you know you can't I guess you
Speaker 1: can't be labeled pretty and funny, although I mean luci
Speaker 1: Oball was was like a beauty queen when she started.
Speaker 2: I don't know why people have to put people in
Speaker 2: boxes and don't appreciate that, as Walt Whitman said, we
Speaker 2: contain multitudes, right, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's easier for people because also
Speaker 1: if you really, if you really take in all that
Speaker 1: we're all capable of, it's a lot of pressure for people.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm really kind of I have to say
Speaker 1: I was a bit intimidating, not a bit, a lot
Speaker 1: intimidated when I really heard, only because not as a friend,
Speaker 1: because as a friend and like a girlfriend, I know
Speaker 1: I can call you and we can be girls, and
Speaker 1: we've talked about a multitude of private things together. But
Speaker 1: it just, you know, you set the tone, and you're
Speaker 1: the front runner for so many women, and the fact
Speaker 1: that I got intimidated by the fact that I thought
Speaker 1: you were going to be that I knew you were
Speaker 1: going to be on the show, it struck me. I thought,
Speaker 1: I wonder if she ever gets intimidated by interviews that
Speaker 1: she has to give. Has there been anybody that's been
Speaker 1: intimidating to you?
Speaker 2: I think I think when I have to tackle topics
Speaker 2: that I don't know a great deal about that I
Speaker 2: feel like the learning curve is really steep. You know,
Speaker 2: if it's somebody on a specific aspect of foreign policy
Speaker 2: that I might not be uber knowledgeable about, or a
Speaker 2: medical thing that I don't know a lot about. Sometimes
Speaker 2: I do get intimidated, but I think at this point
Speaker 2: you just let your natural curiosity take over. You have
Speaker 2: a conversation, and I think the goal is to really
Speaker 2: make things accessible and understandable to people. So I remember
Speaker 2: Tom Friedman said to explain things simply, you have to
Speaker 2: understand them deeply. So I try to strike that balance
Speaker 2: of understanding something and then synthesizing it and distilling it.
Speaker 1: That's a tall order, but the research involved, I think
Speaker 1: is daunting, and I'm sure you know, to make it
Speaker 1: accessible for other people is really is really the gift
Speaker 1: of being a journalist. You wanted to be a journalist
Speaker 1: from the time you were a little kid. I mean
Speaker 1: you're you're the youngest of four, correct. You grew up
Speaker 1: in Virginia, and you said you wanted to be a
Speaker 1: journalist from a young age. What how did you know
Speaker 1: that that's what you wanted. What was it about journalism
Speaker 1: that intrigued you.
Speaker 2: I think I wanted to do something that had to
Speaker 2: do with language and writing, and I think it was
Speaker 2: the process of elimination. Honestly, I wasn't very strong in
Speaker 2: math and science. I hate to say that because that's
Speaker 2: such a stereotypical thing, but I really gravitated towards words
Speaker 2: and language and writing and more creative pursuits. So I
Speaker 2: knew I wanted to do something that involved some form
Speaker 2: of communication, whether it was writing or radio or talking.
Speaker 2: And I think because my dad was a print journalist
Speaker 2: early in his career, and he saw that I wrote
Speaker 2: well and I wrote quickly because I was such a
Speaker 2: procrastinator as a kid, I'd wait till the last minute
Speaker 2: to do my homework, but I was able to write
Speaker 2: things under pressure. And I think he thought, Wow, journalism
Speaker 2: might be a really great career for you. I mean,
Speaker 2: he didn't say that, but we sort of went in
Speaker 2: that direction. And I got internships when I was in college,
Speaker 2: and I worked at three different radio stations, and I
Speaker 2: wrote for my school newspaper and at Uva. I wrote
Speaker 2: for The Cavalier Daily, so I really enjoyed it. And
Speaker 2: you know, I think when you are lucky enough to
Speaker 2: find a job you love, that is such a gift.
Speaker 1: Do you remember the first time that you fell in
Speaker 1: love with the idea of news, like the news moment
Speaker 1: that made you just fall in love with that medium.
Speaker 2: I don't remember if there was one particular moment. I
Speaker 2: just loved every aspect of jumping into a local news van,
Speaker 2: not knowing what you were going to find when you
Speaker 2: stopped to cover a story, having to jump out, get
Speaker 2: your bearings, figure out what was going on, find people
Speaker 2: to talk to, start painting a picture of the story
Speaker 2: in your mind, listening to the sound bites on your
Speaker 2: little mini tape recorder on the way home, writing the script,
Speaker 2: figuring out what you're maybe if you're going live from
Speaker 2: the location, what your you know your live intro is
Speaker 2: going to be, what your outro is going to be,
Speaker 2: and doing it than pressure. Oh yeah, it's so fun.
Speaker 2: It's such an adrenaline rush and it's just exciting. And
Speaker 2: then you've got this thing that you've produced and it's
Speaker 2: done and it's over and you can go home and
Speaker 2: leave it behind.
Speaker 1: It's awesome, it's amazing. And also just the thinking on
Speaker 1: your feet and that being able to adapt. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's our version as an actor of improv. You know,
Speaker 1: you just it's yes, and you know, you never shut
Speaker 1: anything down. It's always what's the next thing. But it's
Speaker 1: interesting though I don't think you know, my daughter, I
Speaker 1: always things happen and things don't happen for them, and
Speaker 1: I try to tell them all the time that you know,
Speaker 1: rejection is just part of growth, and especially in this medium,
Speaker 1: what you're what you I mean, there must have been
Speaker 1: so much rejection and part of what I wanted to
Speaker 1: do with this show is to normalize rejection, you know,
Speaker 1: to show people that you can recover from it, that
Speaker 1: it happens to all of us, and it's how you
Speaker 1: respond and how you can that really reveals who you are.
Speaker 2: That's so true. That's so true. And I mean from
Speaker 2: the get go, I had people telling me, you know, oh,
Speaker 2: you're never going to make it in the business. The
Speaker 2: president of CNN when I did a really bad report,
Speaker 2: like I was too young and really bad, and he
Speaker 2: called the assignment desk at CNN in Washington, said he
Speaker 2: never wanted to see me on the air again, talk
Speaker 2: about like deflating. And you know, I had a really
Speaker 2: challenging time when I went to CBS, both internally with
Speaker 2: the politics there and externally with people I think wanting
Speaker 2: to tear me down and not picking up what I
Speaker 2: was putting down in terms of trying to retool an
Speaker 2: evening news broadcast. And it's hard, and you're right, everybody
Speaker 2: deals with rejection or disappointment or dashed hopes at some
Speaker 2: point in their lives and it's no fun, but it's
Speaker 2: just part of life.
Speaker 1: How did you move on from it? Though?
Speaker 2: What was I mean? I think I had different reactions
Speaker 2: that differed, two different disappointments, Like when the president of
Speaker 2: CNN said he never wanted to see me on the
Speaker 2: air again, I was just like devastated. But I also thought,
Speaker 2: maybe he's right, Maybe I need more experience, Maybe I'm
Speaker 2: not ready and I just need to do it more.
Speaker 2: And that's when I moved to Atlanta and became a
Speaker 2: producer and started doing on air stuff little by little
Speaker 2: and found a mentor. That's when I went to Miami
Speaker 2: and became a local news and just churned out story
Speaker 2: after story, and you know, I agree with Malcolm Gladwell,
Speaker 2: it takes about ten thousand hours to get good at anything,
Speaker 2: and I just thought, you know, I'm just I need
Speaker 2: more practice, I need more experience. So I took it personally,
Speaker 2: and yet I didn't take it personally, and I tried
Speaker 2: to figure out, well, how could I change the circumstances
Speaker 2: I found myself in.
Speaker 1: You were interviewed by people after you left CBS and
Speaker 1: you said you didn't think that people really internally ever,
Speaker 1: really accepted you. And you said I thought we were
Speaker 1: much further along when it came to sexism. What prompted
Speaker 1: that observation.
Speaker 2: Well, I think if you had sort of been in
Speaker 2: my shoes during those five years. And I think a
Speaker 2: lot has changed. I think that sexism is still one
Speaker 2: of the most acceptable isms, less so than it used
Speaker 2: to be. But I think that I got criticized for
Speaker 2: what I wore my first night on the evening news.
Speaker 2: I got criticized for the way I held my hands,
Speaker 2: these really dopey things that a mail anchor would just
Speaker 2: never be subjected to. I mean, let's face it, it's
Speaker 2: more interesting, I think, to look at women on television
Speaker 2: because there's more variety, you know, men just look generally
Speaker 2: a certain way, wear a certain suit and a tie,
Speaker 2: and and I think that not everyone. And by the way,
Speaker 2: I had a lot of friends within CBS, but a
Speaker 2: lot of people I think sort of didn't like outsiders.
Speaker 2: They are it's a pretty insular place. People go there
Speaker 2: and they kind of spend their entire careers there. So
Speaker 2: I had the outsider status, I had the first woman's status.
Speaker 2: I had the morning show albatross around my neck that
Speaker 2: somehow I lack ravitas, which I always say is Latin
Speaker 2: for testicles, and you know, and that and that somehow
Speaker 2: I wasn't enough of a you know, a serious journalist
Speaker 2: to handle the CBS evening news, which was just honestly boloney.
Speaker 2: So I think there were a lot of and not
Speaker 2: just I think there were a lot of biases that
Speaker 2: honestly infected or affected the way people saw me in
Speaker 2: that role.
Speaker 1: It just explained to me what the morning show stigma.
Speaker 2: Oh well, I think that people, you know, even though
Speaker 2: Tom Brokaw did the Today Show, for example, and even
Speaker 2: John Chancellor did the Today Show, I think there is
Speaker 2: a feeling that the morning shows are very fluffy and
Speaker 2: that they don't deal with serious news, and they're not
Speaker 2: They're not done or anchored by serious people. I think
Speaker 2: that's an unfair characterization because I did so many serious
Speaker 2: interviews during my fifteen years at the Today Show, and
Speaker 2: I did many dateline specials. I interviewed Supreme Court justices
Speaker 2: and presidents and world leaders. But I think that it
Speaker 2: just has this kind of unfair sort of promoter as
Speaker 2: kind of a you know, a light, fluffy show.
Speaker 1: It's entertainment, not news.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, But I was really really proud of working
Speaker 2: on The Today Show and really proud of a lot
Speaker 2: of the work we did and the stories and the
Speaker 2: serious stories I covered, from Oklahoma City bombing to nine
Speaker 2: to eleven to presidential elections to all kinds of really
Speaker 2: important stories.
Speaker 1: I mean, you've covered so much, and I'm curious about
Speaker 1: how you cover some of the more divisive issues without
Speaker 1: inserting your personal opinion.
Speaker 2: I honestly try to understand what the person is saying,
Speaker 2: and I try to learn from that and ask questions
Speaker 2: that I think other people would ask. I do try to,
Speaker 2: you know, have a vulcan mind meld with people who
Speaker 2: might be watching, and I try to be objective, but
Speaker 2: you know, I have at this point in my life.
Speaker 2: I'm sixty six years old. There are certain things that
Speaker 2: I really believe in it and it is hard to sometimes,
Speaker 2: like interview somebody who is against abortion. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: for reproductive rights. I am for stricter gun laws. I
Speaker 2: have I think, at this point in my career, been
Speaker 2: able to say there's some things that I really deeply
Speaker 2: believe in, and so I think I do have biases
Speaker 2: when it comes to those topics. But in other instances,
Speaker 2: I just try to listen and challenge when necessary and
Speaker 2: in a respectful way, you know, have a conversation with people.
Speaker 2: But you know, as I think, there's no there's no
Speaker 2: such thing as true objectivity, you know, unless you're doing
Speaker 2: the very strict to what when we're why, if you're
Speaker 2: trying to put any context or any kind of explanation
Speaker 2: behind an event, it's inevitable that your perspective is going
Speaker 2: to be influenced by your point of view in some way.
Speaker 1: And do you feel like you are now there's areas
Speaker 1: of your personality that you can more freely and unapologetically
Speaker 1: share now that you might not have in your early days.
Speaker 2: And news yeah, they were like you know, there were
Speaker 2: third rails like you couldn't talk about gun violence, and
Speaker 2: I did a whole documentary about why gun violence was
Speaker 2: out of control in this country. You know, I couldn't
Speaker 2: have done that anchoring the Today Show. I could not
Speaker 2: have had a strong opinion.
Speaker 1: With your media company. Now you can, yeah, put out
Speaker 1: the messaging that you you believe in, and you know, well,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Brooke, I was able to shape the broadcast slightly differently
Speaker 2: when I was at CBS. I could focus more on
Speaker 2: women's stories. You know, we did something on dating violence,
Speaker 2: we did something on you know, sexual assault in the military.
Speaker 2: I did, you know, stories that I think a male
Speaker 2: anger girl would not have necessarily thought about. And so
Speaker 2: I was able to make my mark in some ways
Speaker 2: when it came to story selection. So I feel like
Speaker 2: I wasn't totally, you know, hamstrung by being in a
Speaker 2: more traditional media environment.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm relieved and glad to hear that. I think
Speaker 1: you're a very strong business woman insofar as the way
Speaker 1: you handled this fascination with your personal life in a
Speaker 1: way that made it not get stolen from you. You know.
Speaker 1: I mean I've felt that my whole life. But I'm
Speaker 1: I'm not in New I'm not in news, you know,
Speaker 1: but that that that piece is usually not something that
Speaker 1: gets it's usually that that personality. And then the private
Speaker 1: life is the private life. But you've done such a
Speaker 1: sort of beautiful job of taking trials and tribulations, and
Speaker 1: you've been open about so much that you went through
Speaker 1: personally in your life, but also making them teaching moments
Speaker 1: and sharing them for other people's benefit. And I'm curious
Speaker 1: as to how you were able to reconcile that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, you know, I think that morning television is
Speaker 2: such a different animal. You develop these parasocial relationships with
Speaker 2: the anchors. You do get to know them. You know.
Speaker 2: People would say to me, I feel like I know you,
Speaker 2: and I said, I'd always say, in many ways, I
Speaker 2: think you do. Because they'd see you in serious moments,
Speaker 2: they'd see you having fun, they'd see you having casual
Speaker 2: chit chat with your colleagues. And I think maybe there
Speaker 2: was a lot of interest in my personal life because
Speaker 2: I was very authentic to who I was on television
Speaker 2: that who I was off camera was really there was
Speaker 2: no difference really to how I mean. There were some
Speaker 2: limitations of things I would do on television that I
Speaker 2: wouldn't do off camera. But I was very much the
Speaker 2: same person with the same persona. And I think when
Speaker 2: people saw me pregnant, they were with me when I
Speaker 2: had both of my girls. They were with me when
Speaker 2: my husband Jay got sick.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: There I was a forty one year old widow with
Speaker 2: two children, six and two, and I think people felt
Speaker 2: terrible for me in the most loving way. I mean, obviously,
Speaker 2: how can you say that about millions of people, But
Speaker 2: I did feel this support coming to me from from
Speaker 2: the Today Show viewers and the audience that you know
Speaker 2: does welcome you and your home and their home like
Speaker 2: your kind of family. And having seen that terrible thing
Speaker 2: happened to Jay, and then to see me try to
Speaker 2: be resilient and move forward, then I think people became
Speaker 2: interested in my love life. Like you know, it made
Speaker 2: for good tabloid fodder, and you know, it was just
Speaker 2: part of being I think at the time where morning
Speaker 2: shows had a real place in the culture, more so
Speaker 2: than I think they do today because of the fragmentation
Speaker 2: of media, and I think people just were interested in
Speaker 2: that how I was going to move forward. I mean,
Speaker 2: I mean sometimes it sometimes it felt invasive, but during
Speaker 2: the trauma of losing Jay. It was so helpful, It
Speaker 2: was so comforting. I felt so cared about by complete
Speaker 2: strangers who sent me mass cards and sympathy notes and
Speaker 2: store worries about loss that they had experienced. It was
Speaker 2: actually really beautiful. And I still have many of those
Speaker 2: letters in big tupperware bins in my basement. And you know,
Speaker 2: I at Jay's funeral, I asked everyone who came to
Speaker 2: write letters to ellieen Carey because I knew that they
Speaker 2: were not going to have the privilege of really getting
Speaker 2: to know their father, and so to be able to
Speaker 2: have those that people wrote such beautiful, thoughtful notes and
Speaker 2: letters and multi page letters to the girls. That is
Speaker 2: really love. That's compassion, that's empathy. And I felt it
Speaker 2: so strongly, and you know, a loss, it was a
Speaker 2: terrible loss, but it did help and it was comforting
Speaker 2: to know that people were out there holding me in
Speaker 2: their hearts.
Speaker 1: You know, when I had very severe postpartum and wrote
Speaker 1: and I wrote about it, I still right.
Speaker 2: You came on the Today Show.
Speaker 1: I did. But to this day, people come, women come
Speaker 1: up to me and tears in their eyes and they
Speaker 1: and they cry and they say thank you. And you know,
Speaker 1: and it's that there's something to be said for shared
Speaker 1: loss or shared experience, or that you know you're not alone,
Speaker 1: and that you know to be willing to be open
Speaker 1: to that I think is obviously a sign of who
Speaker 1: you are as a person. Well.
Speaker 2: I think especially you know, when it comes to taboo
Speaker 2: topics like postpartum depression that people are so terrified of
Speaker 2: and so frightened by, and to break the stigma and
Speaker 2: to let people share and know it's okay and that
Speaker 2: there's help. I mean, you did a tremendous public service
Speaker 2: and I hope that I did the same with colon cancer.
Speaker 2: You know, nobody talked about colon cancer when Jay got
Speaker 2: sick and died, and nobody really talked about the fact
Speaker 2: that it's highly preventable if you get screened. And you know,
Speaker 2: I think when you're a public figure, you have a platform,
Speaker 2: and with that platform comes to responsibility and if you
Speaker 2: can educate people and arm them with information that will
Speaker 2: help them, that could even save their lives. I hate
Speaker 2: to say it, but I think it's really selfish to
Speaker 2: not share, not to share your experience.
Speaker 1: And I you know, I call this show now What
Speaker 1: because it's really about those pivotal times in our lives
Speaker 1: when something very massive happens and we really are are
Speaker 1: the rug is pulled out from underneath us, and we
Speaker 1: are thinking, oh shit, what do I you know? Now?
Speaker 1: What do I do? And I imagine you've had many
Speaker 1: now what moments? Was that one of your biggest? Now
Speaker 1: what moments? How did you move forward from that?
Speaker 2: I think when you have children, you really have no
Speaker 2: option but to put one foot ahead of the other.
Speaker 2: You know, when something like that happens, you don't have
Speaker 2: the luxury of staying in bed and pulling the covers
Speaker 2: over your head. You have to be there for your kids.
Speaker 2: You have a responsibility. You have to parent. And so
Speaker 2: that's what I did. And I also, you know, I
Speaker 2: was a single parent. I had to keep working. I
Speaker 2: wanted to keep working. I loved my job. And I
Speaker 2: think early on realize that we're all terminal and we
Speaker 2: have a finite amount of time on this planet, and
Speaker 2: that I don't think Jay would want to destroy two
Speaker 2: lives because he got cancer. I think he would want
Speaker 2: me to bring as much joy into our daughter's lives
Speaker 2: as possible. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the earth belongs to
Speaker 2: the living. And that sounds selfish and cold in a way,
Speaker 2: I guess, but I think it means, you know, we're
Speaker 2: here and we have to make the most of our
Speaker 2: time while we have it, because you never know, and
Speaker 2: life is fragile and you have to go on. And
Speaker 2: I wanted to go on. I didn't want to or
Speaker 2: four lives to be to be destroyed because Jay got cancer,
Speaker 2: and god, it sucks. You know, it's so maddening when
Speaker 2: someone young, especially gets cancer. They're so cheated out of
Speaker 2: so much. And I'm still really angry about it, honestly,
Speaker 2: it's just so unfair and infuriating.
Speaker 1: And you started a very important organization, Stand Up to Cancer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you co found it fifteen years ago, right.
Speaker 2: Right, and you raised with a bunch of women who
Speaker 2: were just really angry, like I was, about the pace
Speaker 2: of cancer research. When Jacot diagnosed with colorectal cancer and
Speaker 2: it was metastatic, it was all over his liver. The
Speaker 2: first line chemotherapy was something that had been around since
Speaker 2: the nineteen fifties and this was nineteen ninety seven, and
Speaker 2: it just infuriated me that they didn't have more options.
Speaker 2: And it was very motivating, not only for me to
Speaker 2: get involved with callon Cancer Research, but I realized so
Speaker 2: many cancers needed more, more support, more funding. You know,
Speaker 2: one out of ten promising research proposals is approved or
Speaker 2: funded by the NCI, and that means so many, so
Speaker 2: many exciting possibilities are left on the cutting room floor.
Speaker 2: And I just said, we have to support cancer research.
Speaker 2: You know, it's still so much progress has been made,
Speaker 2: but it's still a devastating disease. So many people die
Speaker 2: of cancer still.
Speaker 1: I mean that you lost your sister yes years.
Speaker 2: Later, she was fifty four and running for lieutenant governor
Speaker 2: of Virginia, and that infuriates me too. I mean, anyone
Speaker 2: listening to this who knows somebody who was taken way
Speaker 2: too soon from this disease. It's just it's awful, and
Speaker 2: it's you know, one in one in two men and
Speaker 2: one in three women will be diagnosed with this in
Speaker 2: their lifetime. So that's why I'm so passionate about funding
Speaker 2: research and science. You know, it's really become my life's work.
Speaker 2: And I think when you're touched by something personally brooke
Speaker 2: as you know, you become really invested in doing something
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's You've made a huge amount of a difference,
Speaker 1: and I have hundreds of millions of dollars to research
Speaker 1: and cares happened because of stand up to cancer. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think there's so much around it. My dad died
Speaker 1: of prostay cancer, which you don't have to die from.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So we have not mentioned your sweet husband, but you
Speaker 1: have been with your husband John for You've been with
Speaker 1: Mulner for a decade, right, more than a yeah, decade.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're having our ten year anniversary this June. And
Speaker 2: he really likes your husband Chris too.
Speaker 1: I'm lucky.
Speaker 2: I think we have funny husbands, yes, and kind of
Speaker 2: in that dry, sarcastic, funny way. And I have to
Speaker 2: say Mulner, who I call by his last name, I
Speaker 2: don't know how I started that.
Speaker 1: I call Henchy henchy, so you do.
Speaker 2: He just is a very funny person, and he gets
Speaker 2: frustrated with me because I'm a bit of a mess.
Speaker 2: I'm kind of like pig pen. I leave a little
Speaker 2: trail of junk wherever I go, and he is a
Speaker 2: neat freak, so that sometimes creates problems for us. But
Speaker 2: most of the time we get along really really well.
Speaker 2: And he does make me laugh.
Speaker 1: Is there something that you're I mean, I'm I just
Speaker 1: love how you keep going forward and the energy you
Speaker 1: have too. It's not even reinventing, it's just repurposing and
Speaker 1: re exploring or I don't even know if re is
Speaker 1: the right word. It's just you know you and you're
Speaker 1: such an inspiration to I started a company for and
Speaker 1: we've talked about it for women. Yeah, in this era
Speaker 1: of our lives, you know, that is full of possibility
Speaker 1: and there is so much more and we have so
Speaker 1: much to offer, and we're so versatile and we're beautifully complex,
Speaker 1: and we we've done so many things, and we've yes
Speaker 1: wise and raised children. And is there something you're especially
Speaker 1: excited about in this next chapter?
Speaker 2: I mean, I honestly, you know, I just enjoy trying
Speaker 2: my hardest and some time succeeding in putting good things
Speaker 2: out in the world. Good things don't have to be
Speaker 2: happy things. They can be you know, conversations about important topics,
Speaker 2: journalism or whatever it is I do. Storytelling is a
Speaker 2: can be and often I hope is a public service.
Speaker 2: You know that. It's even if I don't have a
Speaker 2: huge audience or an interview, I do gets five thousand people,
Speaker 2: you know, when I used to have five million people
Speaker 2: watching the Today Show. I feel like if that's helped
Speaker 2: somebody understand something, if it's helped them kind of take
Speaker 2: care of their health, if it's made them aware of
Speaker 2: something they didn't know, Like, I don't know, that's just
Speaker 2: I guess my love language is telling stories and sharing information.
Speaker 2: And I'm excited, you know. I'm excited that I'm starting
Speaker 2: a production company and I'm going to get more involved
Speaker 2: and scripted and nonscripted projects, which is great. You and
Speaker 2: I should talk and maybe collaborate on something.
Speaker 1: I would love that there's I'm going starting to find
Speaker 1: fine books and fine stories that I really do resonate
Speaker 1: and that I want to see cinematically.
Speaker 2: And I feel like I think female voices are getting
Speaker 2: out there in a way that they haven't before. I
Speaker 2: think over the last several years, women and their stories
Speaker 2: and their voices and the people behind the scenes are
Speaker 2: really making their mark. And I'm excited to have that
Speaker 2: kind of storytelling be part of my portfolio as well.
Speaker 1: That was Katie Kirk. Head over to katieciric dot com
Speaker 1: to subscribe to her newsletter and listen to her podcast
Speaker 1: Next question with Katie Kuric. As for me, that's it
Speaker 1: for now on behalf of myself and the team at
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Speaker 1: What with Brookshields is a production of iHeartRadio. Our lead
Speaker 1: producer is Julia Weaver. Additional production support from Caitlin Simpson,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warner, Darby Masters, and Abu Zafar. Our executive producer
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