1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: What do you do when life doesn't go according to 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one, 3 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told 5 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: with a guest to talk about the times they were 7 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: knocked off course and what they did to move forward. 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: Some stories are funny, others are gut wrenching, but all 9 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and 10 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice 11 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: answers one question, now what. I remember some of my 12 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: first interviews with you. We both had very different hair, Yeah, yeah, 13 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: and very different shoulder pads. 14 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 2: That that's true. I remember when you did. I remember 15 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: when I started it ABC, and I think that fall 16 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 2: we all went and bought Calvin Klein jeans, because that 17 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 2: must have been the Yearbrook you did. Nothing comes between 18 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 2: me and my Calvins. Was that nineteen eighty It was eighty. Yeah. 19 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 2: My friend Eileen O'Connor, she ran the teleprompter, and I 20 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 2: think she was still a student at Georgetown. But Eileen 21 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 2: and I were obsessed with Calvin Klein Genes. I just 22 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 2: remember seeing that ad and we all went out and 23 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 2: got a pair, and I have to say, maybe Eileen did, 24 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 2: but I certainly didn't look like you did in alls Brook. 25 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: I don't know about that. That is weird. I just 26 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: found my actual calvins. I had three pairs that my 27 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: mother kept from the commercial, and one of them I 28 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: gave to the met as one does, yeah, clearly, and 29 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: the other two I'm going to frame in plexiglass. 30 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: I was going to say, you should give a pair 31 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 2: to each of your daughters. 32 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: Hello, my beautiful naw At family. Before we get started, 33 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: I wanted to let you know that this will be 34 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: the final episode of the show, which I have loved 35 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: sharing with you over the past year. It's been a 36 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: wonderful ride, and my team and I are retooling a 37 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: few things and saying goodbye for now. I'm so grateful 38 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: for all of you and for your listenership, and equally 39 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: grateful to my last guest for helping me go out 40 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: with a bang. Katie Couric is an award winning journalist, 41 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: a trailblazer, an entrepreneur, a prolific fundraiser for cancer research, 42 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: and she is so much more we connected professionally many 43 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: years ago, and I am so fortunate that our working 44 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: relationship has developed into a friendship. Katie's resume is extensive. 45 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: She spent more than a decade with The Today Show, 46 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: was the first woman to anchor CBS News, and more 47 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: recently founded her own company, Katie Kiric Media. I'm in 48 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: awe of her and so thrilled that she was able 49 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: to join the show. So, without further ado, here is 50 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: Katie Kiric. Well, thank you so much for doing this. 51 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 2: Oh my god, of course, I'm thrilled to talk to you, 52 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 2: because you know, I'm such a big fan, and I 53 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 2: think I'm glad that people are kind of, you know, 54 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 2: getting to know you and your personality because you're so funny. 55 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 2: And I don't think people I think like when obviously 56 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 2: suddenly Susan and you've had other roles, but I don't 57 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 2: think everyone appreciates your sense of humor or the fact 58 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 2: that you have such a good sense of humor. 59 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: Well, thank you for that. I think, you know, I 60 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: think it's anyway, it's odd. I think it's because if 61 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: you've been sort of positioned a certain way for a 62 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: good portion of your life, that is just what people 63 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: imprint on and you know you can't I guess you 64 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: can't be labeled pretty and funny, although I mean luci 65 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: Oball was was like a beauty queen when she started. 66 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 2: I don't know why people have to put people in 67 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 2: boxes and don't appreciate that, as Walt Whitman said, we 68 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 2: contain multitudes, right, right. 69 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,119 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's easier for people because also 70 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: if you really, if you really take in all that 71 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: we're all capable of, it's a lot of pressure for people. 72 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm really kind of I have to say 73 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: I was a bit intimidating, not a bit, a lot 74 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: intimidated when I really heard, only because not as a friend, 75 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: because as a friend and like a girlfriend, I know 76 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: I can call you and we can be girls, and 77 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: we've talked about a multitude of private things together. But 78 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: it just, you know, you set the tone, and you're 79 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 1: the front runner for so many women, and the fact 80 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: that I got intimidated by the fact that I thought 81 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: you were going to be that I knew you were 82 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: going to be on the show, it struck me. I thought, 83 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: I wonder if she ever gets intimidated by interviews that 84 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: she has to give. Has there been anybody that's been 85 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: intimidating to you? 86 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 2: I think I think when I have to tackle topics 87 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 2: that I don't know a great deal about that I 88 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 2: feel like the learning curve is really steep. You know, 89 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 2: if it's somebody on a specific aspect of foreign policy 90 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 2: that I might not be uber knowledgeable about, or a 91 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 2: medical thing that I don't know a lot about. Sometimes 92 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 2: I do get intimidated, but I think at this point 93 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 2: you just let your natural curiosity take over. You have 94 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 2: a conversation, and I think the goal is to really 95 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 2: make things accessible and understandable to people. So I remember 96 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 2: Tom Friedman said to explain things simply, you have to 97 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 2: understand them deeply. So I try to strike that balance 98 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: of understanding something and then synthesizing it and distilling it. 99 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: That's a tall order, but the research involved, I think 100 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: is daunting, and I'm sure you know, to make it 101 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: accessible for other people is really is really the gift 102 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: of being a journalist. You wanted to be a journalist 103 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: from the time you were a little kid. I mean 104 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: you're you're the youngest of four, correct. You grew up 105 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: in Virginia, and you said you wanted to be a 106 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: journalist from a young age. What how did you know 107 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: that that's what you wanted. What was it about journalism 108 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: that intrigued you. 109 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 2: I think I wanted to do something that had to 110 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 2: do with language and writing, and I think it was 111 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 2: the process of elimination. Honestly, I wasn't very strong in 112 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 2: math and science. I hate to say that because that's 113 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 2: such a stereotypical thing, but I really gravitated towards words 114 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 2: and language and writing and more creative pursuits. So I 115 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 2: knew I wanted to do something that involved some form 116 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 2: of communication, whether it was writing or radio or talking. 117 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 2: And I think because my dad was a print journalist 118 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 2: early in his career, and he saw that I wrote 119 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 2: well and I wrote quickly because I was such a 120 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 2: procrastinator as a kid, I'd wait till the last minute 121 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 2: to do my homework, but I was able to write 122 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 2: things under pressure. And I think he thought, Wow, journalism 123 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 2: might be a really great career for you. I mean, 124 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 2: he didn't say that, but we sort of went in 125 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 2: that direction. And I got internships when I was in college, 126 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 2: and I worked at three different radio stations, and I 127 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: wrote for my school newspaper and at Uva. I wrote 128 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 2: for The Cavalier Daily, so I really enjoyed it. And 129 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 2: you know, I think when you are lucky enough to 130 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 2: find a job you love, that is such a gift. 131 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: Do you remember the first time that you fell in 132 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: love with the idea of news, like the news moment 133 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: that made you just fall in love with that medium. 134 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 2: I don't remember if there was one particular moment. I 135 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 2: just loved every aspect of jumping into a local news van, 136 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: not knowing what you were going to find when you 137 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 2: stopped to cover a story, having to jump out, get 138 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: your bearings, figure out what was going on, find people 139 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 2: to talk to, start painting a picture of the story 140 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 2: in your mind, listening to the sound bites on your 141 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 2: little mini tape recorder on the way home, writing the script, 142 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 2: figuring out what you're maybe if you're going live from 143 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 2: the location, what your you know your live intro is 144 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 2: going to be, what your outro is going to be, 145 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 2: and doing it than pressure. Oh yeah, it's so fun. 146 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 2: It's such an adrenaline rush and it's just exciting. And 147 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 2: then you've got this thing that you've produced and it's 148 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 2: done and it's over and you can go home and 149 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: leave it behind. 150 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: It's awesome, it's amazing. And also just the thinking on 151 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: your feet and that being able to adapt. I mean, 152 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: it's our version as an actor of improv. You know, 153 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: you just it's yes, and you know, you never shut 154 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: anything down. It's always what's the next thing. But it's 155 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 1: interesting though I don't think you know, my daughter, I 156 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: always things happen and things don't happen for them, and 157 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: I try to tell them all the time that you know, 158 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: rejection is just part of growth, and especially in this medium, 159 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: what you're what you I mean, there must have been 160 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: so much rejection and part of what I wanted to 161 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: do with this show is to normalize rejection, you know, 162 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: to show people that you can recover from it, that 163 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: it happens to all of us, and it's how you 164 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: respond and how you can that really reveals who you are. 165 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 2: That's so true. That's so true. And I mean from 166 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 2: the get go, I had people telling me, you know, oh, 167 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 2: you're never going to make it in the business. The 168 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 2: president of CNN when I did a really bad report, 169 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 2: like I was too young and really bad, and he 170 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 2: called the assignment desk at CNN in Washington, said he 171 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 2: never wanted to see me on the air again, talk 172 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 2: about like deflating. And you know, I had a really 173 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 2: challenging time when I went to CBS, both internally with 174 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 2: the politics there and externally with people I think wanting 175 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 2: to tear me down and not picking up what I 176 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 2: was putting down in terms of trying to retool an 177 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:55,359 Speaker 2: evening news broadcast. And it's hard, and you're right, everybody 178 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: deals with rejection or disappointment or dashed hopes at some 179 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 2: point in their lives and it's no fun, but it's 180 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 2: just part of life. 181 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:05,719 Speaker 1: How did you move on from it? Though? 182 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 2: What was I mean? I think I had different reactions 183 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 2: that differed, two different disappointments, Like when the president of 184 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 2: CNN said he never wanted to see me on the 185 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 2: air again, I was just like devastated. But I also thought, 186 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 2: maybe he's right, Maybe I need more experience, Maybe I'm 187 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 2: not ready and I just need to do it more. 188 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 2: And that's when I moved to Atlanta and became a 189 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 2: producer and started doing on air stuff little by little 190 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 2: and found a mentor. That's when I went to Miami 191 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 2: and became a local news and just churned out story 192 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 2: after story, and you know, I agree with Malcolm Gladwell, 193 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 2: it takes about ten thousand hours to get good at anything, 194 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 2: and I just thought, you know, I'm just I need 195 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 2: more practice, I need more experience. So I took it personally, 196 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 2: and yet I didn't take it personally, and I tried 197 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 2: to figure out, well, how could I change the circumstances 198 00:11:57,920 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 2: I found myself in. 199 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: You were interviewed by people after you left CBS and 200 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: you said you didn't think that people really internally ever, 201 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,719 Speaker 1: really accepted you. And you said I thought we were 202 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 1: much further along when it came to sexism. What prompted 203 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: that observation. 204 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 2: Well, I think if you had sort of been in 205 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 2: my shoes during those five years. And I think a 206 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 2: lot has changed. I think that sexism is still one 207 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 2: of the most acceptable isms, less so than it used 208 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 2: to be. But I think that I got criticized for 209 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 2: what I wore my first night on the evening news. 210 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 2: I got criticized for the way I held my hands, 211 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 2: these really dopey things that a mail anchor would just 212 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 2: never be subjected to. I mean, let's face it, it's 213 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 2: more interesting, I think, to look at women on television 214 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: because there's more variety, you know, men just look generally 215 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 2: a certain way, wear a certain suit and a tie, 216 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 2: and and I think that not everyone. And by the way, 217 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 2: I had a lot of friends within CBS, but a 218 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 2: lot of people I think sort of didn't like outsiders. 219 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,839 Speaker 2: They are it's a pretty insular place. People go there 220 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 2: and they kind of spend their entire careers there. So 221 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 2: I had the outsider status, I had the first woman's status. 222 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 2: I had the morning show albatross around my neck that 223 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 2: somehow I lack ravitas, which I always say is Latin 224 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 2: for testicles, and you know, and that and that somehow 225 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 2: I wasn't enough of a you know, a serious journalist 226 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 2: to handle the CBS evening news, which was just honestly boloney. 227 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 2: So I think there were a lot of and not 228 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 2: just I think there were a lot of biases that 229 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 2: honestly infected or affected the way people saw me in 230 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 2: that role. 231 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,599 Speaker 1: It just explained to me what the morning show stigma. 232 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,719 Speaker 2: Oh well, I think that people, you know, even though 233 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 2: Tom Brokaw did the Today Show, for example, and even 234 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 2: John Chancellor did the Today Show, I think there is 235 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 2: a feeling that the morning shows are very fluffy and 236 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 2: that they don't deal with serious news, and they're not 237 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 2: They're not done or anchored by serious people. I think 238 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 2: that's an unfair characterization because I did so many serious 239 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 2: interviews during my fifteen years at the Today Show, and 240 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 2: I did many dateline specials. I interviewed Supreme Court justices 241 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 2: and presidents and world leaders. But I think that it 242 00:14:55,960 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 2: just has this kind of unfair sort of promoter as 243 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 2: kind of a you know, a light, fluffy show. 244 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: It's entertainment, not news. 245 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, But I was really really proud of working 246 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 2: on The Today Show and really proud of a lot 247 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 2: of the work we did and the stories and the 248 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 2: serious stories I covered, from Oklahoma City bombing to nine 249 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 2: to eleven to presidential elections to all kinds of really 250 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 2: important stories. 251 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: I mean, you've covered so much, and I'm curious about 252 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: how you cover some of the more divisive issues without 253 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: inserting your personal opinion. 254 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 2: I honestly try to understand what the person is saying, 255 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 2: and I try to learn from that and ask questions 256 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 2: that I think other people would ask. I do try to, 257 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 2: you know, have a vulcan mind meld with people who 258 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 2: might be watching, and I try to be objective, but 259 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: you know, I have at this point in my life. 260 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 2: I'm sixty six years old. There are certain things that 261 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 2: I really believe in it and it is hard to sometimes, 262 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 2: like interview somebody who is against abortion. You know, I'm 263 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 2: for reproductive rights. I am for stricter gun laws. I 264 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 2: have I think, at this point in my career, been 265 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 2: able to say there's some things that I really deeply 266 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 2: believe in, and so I think I do have biases 267 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,479 Speaker 2: when it comes to those topics. But in other instances, 268 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 2: I just try to listen and challenge when necessary and 269 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 2: in a respectful way, you know, have a conversation with people. 270 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 2: But you know, as I think, there's no there's no 271 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 2: such thing as true objectivity, you know, unless you're doing 272 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 2: the very strict to what when we're why, if you're 273 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 2: trying to put any context or any kind of explanation 274 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 2: behind an event, it's inevitable that your perspective is going 275 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 2: to be influenced by your point of view in some way. 276 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: And do you feel like you are now there's areas 277 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:12,719 Speaker 1: of your personality that you can more freely and unapologetically 278 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: share now that you might not have in your early days. 279 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 2: And news yeah, they were like you know, there were 280 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 2: third rails like you couldn't talk about gun violence, and 281 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 2: I did a whole documentary about why gun violence was 282 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 2: out of control in this country. You know, I couldn't 283 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 2: have done that anchoring the Today Show. I could not 284 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 2: have had a strong opinion. 285 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: With your media company. Now you can, yeah, put out 286 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 1: the messaging that you you believe in, and you know, well, 287 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: you know. 288 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 2: Brooke, I was able to shape the broadcast slightly differently 289 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 2: when I was at CBS. I could focus more on 290 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 2: women's stories. You know, we did something on dating violence, 291 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 2: we did something on you know, sexual assault in the military. 292 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 2: I did, you know, stories that I think a male 293 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 2: anger girl would not have necessarily thought about. And so 294 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 2: I was able to make my mark in some ways 295 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 2: when it came to story selection. So I feel like 296 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 2: I wasn't totally, you know, hamstrung by being in a 297 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 2: more traditional media environment. 298 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: Well, I'm relieved and glad to hear that. I think 299 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: you're a very strong business woman insofar as the way 300 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: you handled this fascination with your personal life in a 301 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: way that made it not get stolen from you. You know. 302 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: I mean I've felt that my whole life. But I'm 303 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: I'm not in New I'm not in news, you know, 304 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: but that that that piece is usually not something that 305 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: gets it's usually that that personality. And then the private 306 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: life is the private life. But you've done such a 307 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: sort of beautiful job of taking trials and tribulations, and 308 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: you've been open about so much that you went through 309 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: personally in your life, but also making them teaching moments 310 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: and sharing them for other people's benefit. And I'm curious 311 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 1: as to how you were able to reconcile that. 312 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, you know, I think that morning television is 313 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 2: such a different animal. You develop these parasocial relationships with 314 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 2: the anchors. You do get to know them. You know. 315 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 2: People would say to me, I feel like I know you, 316 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 2: and I said, I'd always say, in many ways, I 317 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 2: think you do. Because they'd see you in serious moments, 318 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 2: they'd see you having fun, they'd see you having casual 319 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 2: chit chat with your colleagues. And I think maybe there 320 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 2: was a lot of interest in my personal life because 321 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:58,439 Speaker 2: I was very authentic to who I was on television 322 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 2: that who I was off camera was really there was 323 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 2: no difference really to how I mean. There were some 324 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 2: limitations of things I would do on television that I 325 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 2: wouldn't do off camera. But I was very much the 326 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 2: same person with the same persona. And I think when 327 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 2: people saw me pregnant, they were with me when I 328 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 2: had both of my girls. They were with me when 329 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 2: my husband Jay got sick. 330 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:26,479 Speaker 1: You know. 331 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 2: There I was a forty one year old widow with 332 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 2: two children, six and two, and I think people felt 333 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,719 Speaker 2: terrible for me in the most loving way. I mean, obviously, 334 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 2: how can you say that about millions of people, But 335 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 2: I did feel this support coming to me from from 336 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 2: the Today Show viewers and the audience that you know 337 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: does welcome you and your home and their home like 338 00:20:55,640 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 2: your kind of family. And having seen that terrible thing 339 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 2: happened to Jay, and then to see me try to 340 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 2: be resilient and move forward, then I think people became 341 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 2: interested in my love life. Like you know, it made 342 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 2: for good tabloid fodder, and you know, it was just 343 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 2: part of being I think at the time where morning 344 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 2: shows had a real place in the culture, more so 345 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 2: than I think they do today because of the fragmentation 346 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 2: of media, and I think people just were interested in 347 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 2: that how I was going to move forward. I mean, 348 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 2: I mean sometimes it sometimes it felt invasive, but during 349 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 2: the trauma of losing Jay. It was so helpful, It 350 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 2: was so comforting. I felt so cared about by complete 351 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 2: strangers who sent me mass cards and sympathy notes and 352 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 2: store worries about loss that they had experienced. It was 353 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 2: actually really beautiful. And I still have many of those 354 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 2: letters in big tupperware bins in my basement. And you know, 355 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 2: I at Jay's funeral, I asked everyone who came to 356 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 2: write letters to ellieen Carey because I knew that they 357 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 2: were not going to have the privilege of really getting 358 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 2: to know their father, and so to be able to 359 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 2: have those that people wrote such beautiful, thoughtful notes and 360 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 2: letters and multi page letters to the girls. That is 361 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 2: really love. That's compassion, that's empathy. And I felt it 362 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,719 Speaker 2: so strongly, and you know, a loss, it was a 363 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 2: terrible loss, but it did help and it was comforting 364 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 2: to know that people were out there holding me in 365 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 2: their hearts. 366 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: You know, when I had very severe postpartum and wrote 367 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: and I wrote about it, I still right. 368 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 2: You came on the Today Show. 369 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 1: I did. But to this day, people come, women come 370 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: up to me and tears in their eyes and they 371 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: and they cry and they say thank you. And you know, 372 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 1: and it's that there's something to be said for shared 373 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: loss or shared experience, or that you know you're not alone, 374 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: and that you know to be willing to be open 375 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: to that I think is obviously a sign of who 376 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: you are as a person. Well. 377 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 2: I think especially you know, when it comes to taboo 378 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 2: topics like postpartum depression that people are so terrified of 379 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 2: and so frightened by, and to break the stigma and 380 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 2: to let people share and know it's okay and that 381 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 2: there's help. I mean, you did a tremendous public service 382 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 2: and I hope that I did the same with colon cancer. 383 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 2: You know, nobody talked about colon cancer when Jay got 384 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 2: sick and died, and nobody really talked about the fact 385 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 2: that it's highly preventable if you get screened. And you know, 386 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 2: I think when you're a public figure, you have a platform, 387 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 2: and with that platform comes to responsibility and if you 388 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 2: can educate people and arm them with information that will 389 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 2: help them, that could even save their lives. I hate 390 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 2: to say it, but I think it's really selfish to 391 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 2: not share, not to share your experience. 392 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,360 Speaker 1: And I you know, I call this show now What 393 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: because it's really about those pivotal times in our lives 394 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:55,120 Speaker 1: when something very massive happens and we really are are 395 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,959 Speaker 1: the rug is pulled out from underneath us, and we 396 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: are thinking, oh shit, what do I you know? Now? 397 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: What do I do? And I imagine you've had many 398 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: now what moments? Was that one of your biggest? Now 399 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: what moments? How did you move forward from that? 400 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 2: I think when you have children, you really have no 401 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 2: option but to put one foot ahead of the other. 402 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 2: You know, when something like that happens, you don't have 403 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 2: the luxury of staying in bed and pulling the covers 404 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 2: over your head. You have to be there for your kids. 405 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 2: You have a responsibility. You have to parent. And so 406 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 2: that's what I did. And I also, you know, I 407 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 2: was a single parent. I had to keep working. I 408 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 2: wanted to keep working. I loved my job. And I 409 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 2: think early on realize that we're all terminal and we 410 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 2: have a finite amount of time on this planet, and 411 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 2: that I don't think Jay would want to destroy two 412 00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 2: lives because he got cancer. I think he would want 413 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 2: me to bring as much joy into our daughter's lives 414 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 2: as possible. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the earth belongs to 415 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 2: the living. And that sounds selfish and cold in a way, 416 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 2: I guess, but I think it means, you know, we're 417 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 2: here and we have to make the most of our 418 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 2: time while we have it, because you never know, and 419 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 2: life is fragile and you have to go on. And 420 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 2: I wanted to go on. I didn't want to or 421 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 2: four lives to be to be destroyed because Jay got cancer, 422 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 2: and god, it sucks. You know, it's so maddening when 423 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 2: someone young, especially gets cancer. They're so cheated out of 424 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 2: so much. And I'm still really angry about it, honestly, 425 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 2: it's just so unfair and infuriating. 426 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: And you started a very important organization, Stand Up to Cancer. Yeah, 427 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 1: you co found it fifteen years ago, right. 428 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 2: Right, and you raised with a bunch of women who 429 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 2: were just really angry, like I was, about the pace 430 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 2: of cancer research. When Jacot diagnosed with colorectal cancer and 431 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 2: it was metastatic, it was all over his liver. The 432 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 2: first line chemotherapy was something that had been around since 433 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 2: the nineteen fifties and this was nineteen ninety seven, and 434 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 2: it just infuriated me that they didn't have more options. 435 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 2: And it was very motivating, not only for me to 436 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 2: get involved with callon Cancer Research, but I realized so 437 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 2: many cancers needed more, more support, more funding. You know, 438 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 2: one out of ten promising research proposals is approved or 439 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 2: funded by the NCI, and that means so many, so 440 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 2: many exciting possibilities are left on the cutting room floor. 441 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 2: And I just said, we have to support cancer research. 442 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 2: You know, it's still so much progress has been made, 443 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 2: but it's still a devastating disease. So many people die 444 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 2: of cancer still. 445 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: I mean that you lost your sister yes years. 446 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 2: Later, she was fifty four and running for lieutenant governor 447 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,959 Speaker 2: of Virginia, and that infuriates me too. I mean, anyone 448 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 2: listening to this who knows somebody who was taken way 449 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 2: too soon from this disease. It's just it's awful, and 450 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 2: it's you know, one in one in two men and 451 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 2: one in three women will be diagnosed with this in 452 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 2: their lifetime. So that's why I'm so passionate about funding 453 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 2: research and science. You know, it's really become my life's work. 454 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 2: And I think when you're touched by something personally brooke 455 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 2: as you know, you become really invested in doing something 456 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 2: about it. 457 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: Well, it's it's You've made a huge amount of a difference, 458 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: and I have hundreds of millions of dollars to research 459 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: and cares happened because of stand up to cancer. I mean, 460 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: I think there's so much around it. My dad died 461 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: of prostay cancer, which you don't have to die from. 462 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 2: Right. 463 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: So we have not mentioned your sweet husband, but you 464 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: have been with your husband John for You've been with 465 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: Mulner for a decade, right, more than a yeah, decade. 466 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're having our ten year anniversary this June. And 467 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 2: he really likes your husband Chris too. 468 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: I'm lucky. 469 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 2: I think we have funny husbands, yes, and kind of 470 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 2: in that dry, sarcastic, funny way. And I have to 471 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 2: say Mulner, who I call by his last name, I 472 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 2: don't know how I started that. 473 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: I call Henchy henchy, so you do. 474 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 2: He just is a very funny person, and he gets 475 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 2: frustrated with me because I'm a bit of a mess. 476 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 2: I'm kind of like pig pen. I leave a little 477 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,239 Speaker 2: trail of junk wherever I go, and he is a 478 00:29:55,280 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 2: neat freak, so that sometimes creates problems for us. But 479 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 2: most of the time we get along really really well. 480 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 2: And he does make me laugh. 481 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: Is there something that you're I mean, I'm I just 482 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,719 Speaker 1: love how you keep going forward and the energy you 483 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: have too. It's not even reinventing, it's just repurposing and 484 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: re exploring or I don't even know if re is 485 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: the right word. It's just you know you and you're 486 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: such an inspiration to I started a company for and 487 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: we've talked about it for women. Yeah, in this era 488 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: of our lives, you know, that is full of possibility 489 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: and there is so much more and we have so 490 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: much to offer, and we're so versatile and we're beautifully complex, 491 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: and we we've done so many things, and we've yes 492 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: wise and raised children. And is there something you're especially 493 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: excited about in this next chapter? 494 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 2: I mean, I honestly, you know, I just enjoy trying 495 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 2: my hardest and some time succeeding in putting good things 496 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 2: out in the world. Good things don't have to be 497 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 2: happy things. They can be you know, conversations about important topics, 498 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 2: journalism or whatever it is I do. Storytelling is a 499 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 2: can be and often I hope is a public service. 500 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 2: You know that. It's even if I don't have a 501 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 2: huge audience or an interview, I do gets five thousand people, 502 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 2: you know, when I used to have five million people 503 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 2: watching the Today Show. I feel like if that's helped 504 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 2: somebody understand something, if it's helped them kind of take 505 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 2: care of their health, if it's made them aware of 506 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 2: something they didn't know, Like, I don't know, that's just 507 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 2: I guess my love language is telling stories and sharing information. 508 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 2: And I'm excited, you know. I'm excited that I'm starting 509 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 2: a production company and I'm going to get more involved 510 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 2: and scripted and nonscripted projects, which is great. You and 511 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 2: I should talk and maybe collaborate on something. 512 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: I would love that there's I'm going starting to find 513 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: fine books and fine stories that I really do resonate 514 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: and that I want to see cinematically. 515 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 2: And I feel like I think female voices are getting 516 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 2: out there in a way that they haven't before. I 517 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 2: think over the last several years, women and their stories 518 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 2: and their voices and the people behind the scenes are 519 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 2: really making their mark. And I'm excited to have that 520 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 2: kind of storytelling be part of my portfolio as well. 521 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: That was Katie Kirk. Head over to katieciric dot com 522 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: to subscribe to her newsletter and listen to her podcast 523 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: Next question with Katie Kuric. As for me, that's it 524 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: for now on behalf of myself and the team at 525 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: iHeart Thank you your support has truly meant everything to us. Now. 526 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: What with Brookshields is a production of iHeartRadio. Our lead 527 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: producer is Julia Weaver. Additional production support from Caitlin Simpson, 528 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warner, Darby Masters, and Abu Zafar. Our executive producer 529 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: is Christina Everett. The show is mixed by Bahed Fraser.