1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: And you're here. Thanks for choosing the I Heart Radio 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: and Coast to Coast and Paranormal Podcast Network. Your quest 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: for podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, and the unexplained ends here. 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: We invite you to enjoy all our shows we have 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: on this network, and right now, let's start with Strange 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: Things with Joshua pe Warren. The thoughts and opinions expressed 7 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: by the host our thoughts and opinions only, and do 8 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: not necessarily reflect those of I Heart Media, I Heart Radio, 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: Coast to Coast a out employees of premier networks or 10 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: their sponsors and associates. You are encouraged to do the 11 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: proper amount of research yourself, depending on the subject matter 12 00:00:41,440 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: and your needs. M Get ready. This is Strange Things 13 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: with Joshua Warren. I am Joshua pe Warren. At each 14 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: week on this show, I'll be bringing you brand new 15 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: mind blowing content, news exercises, and weird experiments you can 16 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 1: do at home, and a lot more. On this edition 17 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: of the program, the Ultimate paranormal detective and historian Vance Pollock. 18 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: And listen to this he will reveal for the first 19 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: time ever what he thinks happened to my great uncle 20 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: Claude Callaway, who vanished in the mountains of western North 21 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: Carolina in the nineteen thirties. It's an unsolved mystery, and 22 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: after fifteen years of research, listen to Vance to give 23 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: me his conclusion for the first time. Now. I have 24 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: known Vance Pollock for many, many years. He was raised 25 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: in central Florida and has a bachelor's degree in journalism. 26 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: But he eventually settled around my hometown of Asheville, North Carolina, 27 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: and I met him there when he was researching one 28 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 1: of the area's most controversial historical figures. You'll hear about that. 29 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: I'm six ft two. Advance is a tall, thin six 30 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: ft seven I think, with striking blue eyes, and he 31 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: just towers over everyone. And yet he usually comes across 32 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: as quiet and gentle, is a springtime breeze with this 33 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: warm voice to match. He'll chuckle hearing that. His official 34 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: bio says he's smarter than he looks. You can tell 35 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: we are good friends. And when I was living in 36 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico and no longer had the time to host 37 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: my old radio show called Speaking of Strange, I asked 38 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: Vance to take over for me. That's how much I 39 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: think of him. He is a music aficionado who also 40 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: regularly travels to some of the world's oddest places, like Iceland, 41 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: where he lived for years. But here's the thing that 42 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: stands out most about him. Advance was born with a 43 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: destiny as an historian and librarian and investigator. He'll become 44 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: struck by some person in history, no matter how regional 45 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: or forgotten or obscure, and he will decide to dig 46 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: into that person and that person's connections, and then something 47 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: magical happens. A sort of synchronicity kicks in, a serendipity. 48 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: It's almost like the spirits begin speaking to him and 49 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: guiding him. And then amazingly he discovers new things in 50 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: in cemeteries, in books, in his daily experiences. These elements 51 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: of the past just sort of reveal themselves to him. 52 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 1: They just manifest for him. And I know how strange 53 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: this sounds, but you're about to hear some examples and 54 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: you'll understand more. And this is why I affectionately call 55 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: him Sherlock Pollock. It's not easy to figure out how 56 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: to introduce him properly, so without further ado, here he 57 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: is a Vance Pollock. Welcome to the show. A pleasure 58 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: to be here with you, Josh. I mean, we've had 59 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: some We've had some wild adventures over the years, haven't we. 60 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: How many movies could we make? There's no telling, I mean, 61 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: and and nobody would believe them. It'll It reminds me 62 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: of the Mark Twain quote that, uh, well that the 63 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: truth is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense. Um. 64 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: And so yeah, we have known each other a long time. 65 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 1: We have had so many strange and truly unbelievable adventures. 66 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: And let me just ask you, as an historian and investigator, 67 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: at what point in your life did your current curious 68 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: personality seem to congeal into what you are today? Uh. 69 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: The idea of communicating with people beyond the grave I 70 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: was always interesting, not just ghost stories, but ghost stories 71 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: with information. You know, because you talk of course your 72 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: listeners they understand the difference between essentient spirit and an imprint. 73 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: And in many cases, I think what people are experiencing 74 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: when they have ghostly encounters it is just like a 75 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: loop from uh, some experience or some energy that a 76 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: living person had had spent in that space, perhaps so 77 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: many times that they had almost burned a channel there. 78 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 1: In my experience, I have had information imparted to me 79 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: in ways that defy coincidence. Now, you have always been 80 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: a very rational person, that you're a critical thinker, a 81 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: fact finder. What was an early case that convinced you 82 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: ghosts are more than just fodder for campfire? Tells? I 83 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: sat in my house, the house where I grew up 84 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: that my my father and mother built. Um and I 85 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: know I was absolutely alone in the room with Josh. 86 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: And every time I recount this sometimes they get emotional. 87 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: I can almost feel that here's stand up on the 88 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: back of my neck because it's absolutely true. I sat 89 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: in the living room and looked across the room to 90 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: a door leading into a bedroom on the other side. 91 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: And that was the bedroom where my grandmother stayed with 92 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: my parents when she was quite elderly, and she had 93 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: she had been dead for some years by this time. 94 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: We'll say she had been dead for ten years or more, 95 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: because I was a teenager at this point. And the 96 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: house is just a small bungalow so that you can 97 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: walk from the living room into the kitchen, dining area, 98 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: into the hallway and into that bedroom. Uh. And it's 99 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: it's not really uh, you know, no effort to walk around. 100 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: And my parents are kind of like me. They're kind 101 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: of like pat rats. So in the intervening years since 102 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: my grandmother had passed away, a table and a bookshelf 103 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: and more stuff piled up on that side of the 104 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: living room in front of that door, so that we 105 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: didn't even use that door into the bedroom anymore. To 106 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: go into that bedroom, you just walked through the kitchen 107 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: and into the hallway and into the bedroom. But I 108 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: was sitting in the living room reading late one night, 109 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: absolutely alone in the house, and I looked up at 110 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: that door to that bedroom because I heard a rattle, 111 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: and that door knob was very slowly and deliberately turning 112 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: back and forth, back and forth. And I was petrified 113 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: for a second, and I felt those chills, and finally 114 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: I got up the nerve to walk around through the 115 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: kitchen into the hallway and peer into the bedroom. And 116 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: obviously there was there was nothing there, but I I 117 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,959 Speaker 1: swear I saw that door knob turn. And that's that's 118 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: what I call my believer experience. I think all believers, 119 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: all true believers, have had some experience that is beyond 120 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: the pale. You know, uh, if you had seen that 121 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: UFO you would never doubt it. If you had seen 122 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: that door knob turned by itself, you could not doubt 123 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,719 Speaker 1: that there's something else out there. Yeah, there's no substitute 124 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 1: for the personal experience. And once you open your mind 125 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: to these things and you start noticing more than there 126 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: are actually more signs and pieces of evidence around us 127 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: than most people realize on a daily basis. We'll get 128 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: to that the first off. So let's hear you're a 129 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 1: version of how we met. You and I we met 130 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: what going on fifteen years ago, easily believe it or not. 131 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 1: I think it was about two thousand seven. I probably 132 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: still got the uh, the messages and the emails, um. 133 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: But you had in those days the Lemur Forum because 134 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: in the days before the social media being what it 135 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: is now, forums were a popular thing. People would go 136 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: go on and post a subject and then everyone could 137 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 1: join in the conversation. But the Lemur Forum was is 138 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: a great outlet for all sorts of paranormal discussion in 139 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: those days. And I chimed in about a location in 140 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 1: built More Village which I knew to have been associated 141 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: with a publisher by the name of William Dudley Pelley. Well, 142 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: he was more than a publisher. He's a he is 143 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: a grand character in in weird lore, especially here in 144 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: the Mountains. But I chimed in on the Lemur Forum 145 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: and said, there was a publisher holding seances and writing 146 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: books about communicating with the dead in this building in 147 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: the late nineteen thirties. And do you remember your reaction 148 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: when I posted a photograph of that building on the forum. Oh? Yeah, 149 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: it was shocking because I had already been investigating ghostly 150 00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: activity at that building, having no knowledge whatsoever about William 151 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 1: Dudley Pelly and what you were simultaneously researching. I mean, 152 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: it was one of those many examples of what you 153 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: were investigating and what I was investigating dovetelling. And it 154 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: was only a short time later that you and some 155 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: of the Lemur team from that time Forrest Connor included 156 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: Mica Hanks was on board at that time, met in 157 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: West Asheville at a little sandwich shop at the time 158 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: it was Pineapple Jack sandwich Shop, but that had been 159 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: another location where William Dudley Pelly had his printing plant 160 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: um right there on Haywood Road in West Asheville. So 161 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: now I want us to dig into William Dudley Pelley. 162 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: But first to give everybody who is is just hearing 163 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: about your work for the first time a better idea 164 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: of how you work. Um, I talk a lot about 165 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: you and how that sync nicity tends to assist you 166 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: in your research. So to help give everybody a clear 167 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: understanding of what I mean, what are some examples of 168 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: how synchronicity has helped you and give us some sort 169 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: of good scinc stories. Time for us to pause for 170 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: a quick break. But listen. I have some exciting news 171 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 1: and updates I will be sharing with you soon. The 172 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: only way you can get them is to go to 173 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 1: Joshua pe Warren dot com and to sign up from 174 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: my free e newsletter. Takes you two seconds. You put 175 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: your email address into the little box there on the homepage, 176 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: hit the submit button. You will instantly receive an automated 177 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: email from my system that will give you some free 178 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: gifts that will start helping you manifest a much more 179 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: magical life. Do that right now, Joshua pee Warren dot com. 180 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: I am Joshua Pee Warren and you are listening to 181 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: strange things on the I Heart Radio and Coast to 182 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: Coast a m paranormal podcast Network, and I will be 183 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: right back. Welcome back to Strange Things on the I 184 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Parinormal Podcast Network. 185 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: I'm your host, the Wizard of Weird, Joshua P. Warren. 186 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: And now let's get back to my conversation with the 187 00:13:54,920 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: paranormal detective Vance Pollock. Good Ample. I will give this 188 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: is not necessarily the first story I would tell people. Actually, 189 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've even heard this one, Josh, 190 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: because it's a it's kind of a shocking one. And 191 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,959 Speaker 1: I have to be careful even telling this story because 192 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: some of the family are still in the area and 193 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a touchy one. Um. But there's 194 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: a little bar and music hall on Patton Avenue in Asheville, 195 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: North Carolina called Jack of the Wood. You know Jack 196 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: of the Wood. Um. In the nineteen thirties, again, there 197 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: were printing presses in there and they were churning out. 198 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: People are going to be like, wow. Asheville actually in 199 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties was printing all this sort of heretical, religious, 200 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: strange sort of material. Yes, this town for for small 201 00:14:55,480 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: presses and authors of paranormal subjects. I think Ashville had 202 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: more people per capita engaged in that than perhaps any 203 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: other place in the country. Um. So there's a small 204 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: print shop on Patton Avenue where Jack of the Wood 205 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: is now, and they were printing some channeled messages, that is, 206 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: spirit communications and putting out these small pamphlets and brochures 207 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: and booklets and things like this. And the wife of 208 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: the owner was a woman, and i'll use her name. 209 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: I'll use her maiden name because it has a great 210 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: resonance to it. Her maiden name was Gladys Lord Jenkins, 211 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: So I will refer to Gladys by her proper name, 212 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: Gladys Lord Jenkins. And Gladys Lord Jenkins was absorbed with 213 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: seances and spirit communication and all this sort of thing. 214 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: And a lot of people will tell you that if 215 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 1: you become too obsessed with that sort of thing, you 216 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: tend to sort of lose your mind. Um. And from 217 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: what I could gather, that was the case with Gladys 218 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: Lord Jenkins. That she and her husband had gradually drifted 219 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: apart and then separated and he had her committed. Now 220 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: this is coming down from another generation of people talking 221 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: about their father's previous life. Gladys was his first wife, 222 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: and so he went on to have another family. It 223 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: was almost like he had another chapter to his life. 224 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: But during that first marriage, Uh, they had adopted a 225 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: child who had grown up and and also gone her 226 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: separate way. And as I was talking to some of 227 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: the younger children, one of them expressed to me, I 228 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: would like to know what happened to my older adopted sister. 229 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: And I said, that's a tough one because Gladys, you know, 230 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 1: if she she got committed, she kind of slipped and 231 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 1: went off the deep end. Uh that it's it's gonna 232 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: be tough to try and pin down an adoption from 233 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 1: So I told him, I'm gonna I'm gonna try and 234 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: reach out to Gladys and see if I can get 235 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: some information on on your older adopted sister, just so 236 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 1: they could kind of compare notes. He could learn a 237 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: little more about his father as a younger man. As 238 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: the younger man that he never really knew. He said, 239 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: his father never talked about that that previous life. And 240 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: so I'm standing in the storeroom above Jack of the 241 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: Wood and I'm imagining this is the nineteen thirties. Gladys 242 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: is on the premises on a daily basis there if 243 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: if she had walked this path, you know, dozens of 244 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: times before, maybe maybe she left some energy in this room. 245 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: And I stood there and I felt I felt a 246 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: like a small charge, like a low voltage electricity. I could, 247 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: I could feel the buzz. Will call it. And I 248 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: asked in my head, but very loudly and very very clearly, gladys, 249 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: if you're out there, and if you wouldn't mind communicating 250 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: to me, I want to find I want to find 251 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: your adoptive daughter. And Joshua, this is I mean, no, 252 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: no joke. I went away from there. I slept on it, 253 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: and the next day it was like a hunch. And 254 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: this is often the way it works when I when 255 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: I make progress or when I break through these these 256 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: brick walls of research. The next day I had a 257 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: hunch and it was vague but specific enough that I 258 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: went to the right place, and that is the the 259 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: Small Claims Court at the Bunkombe County Courthouse. And I 260 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: don't know why you would why you would go to 261 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,199 Speaker 1: the Hall of Records. It's like they keep the records 262 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: for Small Claims Court and the inferior court records in 263 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: a little building off of the lobby kind of tucked 264 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: away in the back. And I had been in the courthouse, 265 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: and I've been to the Register of Deeds, and I 266 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: had been in all these other offices there on the 267 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: off the lobby of the uh the County courthouse, dozens 268 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 1: of times, and I had never even been in this 269 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 1: little room that's tucked away, uh in the back corner. 270 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: And I'm a tall guy. I actually had just crouched 271 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: down to get through the door, because it's like you're 272 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: walking into an old fault and the books and the 273 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: index is back. There are all these huge books on rollers, 274 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: like no joke books that are like three ft tall 275 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: and way you know, thirty pounds, and you pick them 276 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 1: up and you put them on these rollers to move 277 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: them around. Uh. This is the way we used to 278 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: do it before the digital age. And I pulled one 279 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 1: of these indexes and I looked up Gladys's husband's name 280 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: in one of these old indexes from the nineteen thirties. 281 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: And what we had there was basically like a directory 282 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: with names, and I did find Gladys's husband's name, and 283 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: off to the side there were probably at least a 284 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:39,719 Speaker 1: dozen different entries for catalog records referring to some inferior 285 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:46,239 Speaker 1: court judgment or some business application on his behalf. So 286 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: I just chose. I just basically put my number down 287 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: in this huge book and picked out one of the 288 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 1: records associated with his name, and uh jotted it down 289 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: on a slip of paper in handed it to the 290 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: clerk there, and she rolled her eyes and she says, 291 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: that's a tough one. I can't even reach it. And 292 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: she pointed up on the wall and the way this 293 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: old courthouse was built, by the way, and what they 294 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: had installed in the walls in nineteen were these metal 295 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 1: file shelves. They're about the about the size of, you know, 296 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: a regular plastic file folder that you might keep on 297 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,479 Speaker 1: the shelf now, but they're these these huge green metal 298 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 1: files that actually shelve into the wall. So on the 299 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,199 Speaker 1: wall behind this woman looks like a scene out of 300 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: the movie Brazil, and there's this green file with the 301 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: number in paper slipped down in the front of it. 302 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: She says, I can't even reach it. It's that one 303 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: up there. And I reached up and, like I said, 304 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: a tall guy, and I reached up and grabbed it, 305 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 1: and it's over my head. And when I pulled this 306 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: green metal file out. Literally coal dust, black coal dust 307 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: fell out of that shelf and choked us. And the 308 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: WO was like, yeah, this place is uh full of 309 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: coal dust, and if if those files haven't moved in 310 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: forty or fifty years, they're full of the stuff. So 311 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: I literally pulled this file. It's half filled with black 312 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: coal dust down, and it's got all these little envelopes 313 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: with you know, the round uh, the round piece on 314 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: the envelope flap and the little string so you make 315 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 1: a figure eight with a string to draw the the 316 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: envelope clothes. So it's like these yellowed old envelopes that 317 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: have just been tied off with a string, tossed in 318 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: one of these file drawers and shoved into the wall 319 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: for sixty seventy years. At that point, and I find 320 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 1: the numbered file for Gladys's husband, And when I opened 321 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: that file, what do you think is in there? It's 322 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: the adoption papers for their daughter filed in Richland County, 323 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: South Carolina. They're not even local documents. But for whatever reason, 324 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: this file that I pulled contained a copy from another 325 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: state of the adoption record of exactly who I was 326 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: looking for, and the information in that file provided me 327 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: with her her birth name and her date of birth, 328 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: and using that information, I was able to find this 329 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: woman quite easily, use public records and dates of birth 330 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,479 Speaker 1: and and and a you know, a legal name, and 331 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: it's not too hard to find a person. And she 332 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: was still living at that time in Tennessee, and I 333 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: managed to call her up on the phone and I said, 334 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 1: I'm hauling too just to reach out to you, to 335 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: let you know that you have a family, so to speak, 336 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: you know, adopted siblings back here in Asheville who were 337 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: thinking about you and wanted to know about you. And 338 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: kind of as an aside, I asked, um, do you 339 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: know whatever became of Gladys Lord Jenkins? And I could 340 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: hear her take a breath, and it was a comfortable 341 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: question for her, I realized. She said, the last time 342 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: I saw Gladys, she was trying to shove me into 343 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: a furnace in the basement of our house. And I thought, oh, 344 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: my word, I just stepped in it. I have really 345 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: opened a can of worms. And she did break down 346 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 1: and cry on the phone with me, and I apologized 347 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: for her for being, you know, insensitive with that line 348 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: of questioning, but that I was glad to find find her. 349 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: I re reunited her with her her younger adopted siblings, 350 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 1: and they now exchange or at least, you know, for 351 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: some time after that, exchanged Christmas cards and we're you know, reunited. 352 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: So it had a happy ending. But when I asked 353 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: her about Gladys and she said, the last time I 354 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: saw glad she was trying to shove me in the furnace. 355 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: That was That was pretty intense. You're listening to Strange 356 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: Things on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast 357 00:25:26,640 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: damn parinormal podcast network. And I'll be right back. Welcome 358 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: back to Strange Things on the I Heart Radio and 359 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: Coast to Coast. Ay am para normal podcast network. I 360 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: am your host, Joshua P. Warren, and this is the 361 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 1: show where the unusual becomes usual. And now back to 362 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: my conversation with Vance Pollock. I know that you could 363 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: sit here for hours and tell story after story along 364 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: those lines about how the you get a hunch and 365 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: you just follow it, and it's almost like you're being 366 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 1: guided by some aspect of the universe. I know sometimes 367 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: you'll just go to a cemetery and walk around and 368 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: stumble upon something amazingly related to your work, right? Can 369 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: you give it an example of that? Oh, I can 370 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: give you the perfect example. It was just a few 371 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 1: weeks before we had our encounter with John Lyriley. I 372 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 1: don't know if you realize it, but I went back 373 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 1: and I found an email h that just the week 374 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: or two before we encountered the ghost of Sheriff John Liarley, 375 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: I had walked over his grave and sent a note 376 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 1: to a friend of mine who is also a local historian, 377 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: and said, I was out at beaver Dam Cemetery today 378 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: and I stumbled across a Liarly grave. Weren't there some 379 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: Liarley's in local law enforcement? And the fact that I 380 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: had just seen that name on a tombstone was enough 381 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,959 Speaker 1: for me to keep pursuing that line of research. And 382 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: that's where the John Liarley story came out. Actually, that 383 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: that's like the pre the precursor, that's like the preface 384 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: to the John Lierley story, is that a week or 385 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 1: two before our encounter, I had actually walked past his 386 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: grave out there at beaver Dam. And it's not like 387 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: a big prominent cemetery, I mean, and I stumbled across 388 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: that Liarley Gray just a couple of weeks before we 389 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 1: encountered the Sheriff Lyarley's spirit, which, uh, it turns out 390 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: was a suicide. Yeah, suicide for people who need to 391 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: be refreshed on this, because I've talked about it on 392 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: this podcast. I mean, you know, I was working with 393 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 1: you to create this version of a local sort of 394 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: mystery museum, uh, with Stuart Coleman, and we ended up 395 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: being able to use the old jail house over there 396 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 1: nearest City County Plaza and Asheville, and we knew the 397 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,719 Speaker 1: place was haunted, but we didn't know precisely why. I mean, 398 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: you know, most jails are probably haunted. UM. And then 399 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: you know, long story short, one evening, a cat one 400 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: of the guides there, she was alone, and she walked 401 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: into a tall, dark, very scary apparition of a man, 402 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: so scary that she closed up and left. And Uh, 403 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: the thing that is astounding to me is that that 404 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: exact same day, you knew absolutely nothing about her experience, 405 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: and you contacted me to let me know that you 406 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: had just discovered that that day was the day that 407 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: Sheriff John Liarley had committed suicide. Uh. In that building 408 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: what like eighty years before or ninety years before, I 409 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: mean a long time before. That was the date. I'm like, 410 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: there's no way that could be a coincidence, you know, 411 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: there's just no way in in that very location that's 412 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: right at that look. And our messages were basically crossing 413 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,239 Speaker 1: one another as cats sending you these message messages. You 414 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: and I are are sending messages back and forth. And 415 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: I sent you the article that says, uh, Buncombe County 416 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: Sheriff commits suicide. Um, and you respond to Your first 417 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: response was did you notice the date? I had pulled 418 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: that article without even noticing that it was that day's eighth. 419 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: So you pointed out that significance, and I got, you know, 420 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: I felt a shudder. And the next thing I hear 421 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: from you very shortly after that is that Kat, who 422 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: was a guide and docent there in the museum, had 423 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: bumped into this figure in the room in the back 424 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: part of the building, which was specifically where he had 425 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: shot himself. We found out when year after year you 426 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: consistently have these types of scenarios where it almost seems 427 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: like the spirit, for lack of a better word, of 428 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: a deceased person starts to guide you to what once 429 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: you take an interest in that person. Um, if you 430 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: consider that, and and again, I've known you so long, 431 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: I just to me, I expected, It's just it's normal 432 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: to me for this to happen to you. But what 433 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: have you earned about the overall nature and makeup of 434 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: reality from these experiences? I believe that every personality, most 435 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: certainly and likely most every event or episode in a 436 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: person's life is recorded somewhere on the time loop. You know. 437 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: Maybe it's akin to what some Eastern religions referred to 438 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: as the Akashic record, where every everything is recorded. Uh. 439 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: And I do in a way sort of associated with 440 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: with a grand library and having worked done family history 441 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: and genealogy so much, I draw a lot of parallels 442 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: to that. In the case of something like here's another 443 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: Josh store you can, I'm gonna be pulling references to 444 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: things that your listeners may not be all that privy to. 445 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: But like Josh's uncle Claude Callaway the story of Claude 446 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: Callaway's disappearance. UM. After doing some research on Claude Callaway, UM, 447 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: I found out that he had been twice married and 448 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: he had children at the time he disappeared. Now that 449 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: was something you didn't know, and you might have thought 450 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: the way it was told to you, with the way 451 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: it was handed down, that he was just a young 452 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: man in you know, early prime of his life that 453 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: just vanished. But he had there was more to it 454 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: than that. After digging a little bit into the historic record, 455 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: I began to see that Claude Callaway had troubles. You know, 456 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: he had blues um leading up to his disappearance. And Josh, 457 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: I want to tell you that the my instincts tell 458 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: me that your uncle Claude Callaway wandered off into the 459 00:32:54,520 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: mountains somewhere and drank poison. Yes, that's my my intuition 460 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: is that your uncle Claude Callaway had had that second 461 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: failed marriage. Uh, the kids had been taken away from him, 462 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: he had moved back in with his father um, and 463 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: he was he was depressed, and at that point he 464 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: just stood up from that porch and walked off into 465 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: those woods. And you know how remote even today some 466 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: of these places out around Barnardsville and Coleman boundary. If 467 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: you wandered into those woods for a day, you would 468 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: be you would be gone, You would vanish for all 469 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: intent and purpose. And I believe that your uncle Claude 470 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: Callaway stood up from his father's porch that afternoon and 471 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: started walking, and he walked and he walked, and he 472 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: walked into the woods, and in his pocket he had 473 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: a bottle of carbolic acid, which would basically be like 474 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: drain cleaner, but it was something that you could you 475 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: could pick up anywhere. And the reason I specifically think 476 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: carbolic acid is because his mother in law, the mother 477 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: of his second wife who he had the children with, 478 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: she had committed suicide by carbolic acid. So it would 479 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: have been something that was very prominent in his thinking. 480 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: It would not have been a foreign concept to him. 481 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: And should he want to just disappear and never be 482 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: heard from again, never trouble anyone again, it would have 483 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: been so simple for him to to fix a little 484 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: glass bottle of drain cleaner and walk off into the 485 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: woods and and swil that down and be gone. And 486 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 1: that's that's the And I felt that way for a 487 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: few years now, and I don't know if you and 488 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,319 Speaker 1: I got to that point where we talked about it. 489 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,839 Speaker 1: So here I'm just telling you I think your uncle 490 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 1: Claude did away with himself. Well, that's uh, the fact 491 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: that he may have killed himself is certainly very plausible. 492 00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: That's what a horrible way to go. I can't imagine 493 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: one he do that. Um, but you know, it's it's 494 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,760 Speaker 1: odd that they never found a trace of him, and 495 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 1: I guess we'll never know for sure. I'm really glad 496 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: that you have done this kind of research. I mean, 497 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: it's marvelous to have a friend like you, because you know, 498 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: I have come to you again and again, uh and 499 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: and ask you to just help me get to the 500 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:28,760 Speaker 1: bottom of of some place, some situation, and you always 501 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 1: come up with the most amazing insight. So let's okay, Now, 502 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: let's get to this fella who has just become probably 503 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: the major player in your research all these years. We 504 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 1: we mentioned him already, William Dudley Pelly. What a mysterious 505 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: and controversial guy. I bet most people listening to this 506 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: have never heard of him before. So why can you 507 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: tell us about him and what he may have been 508 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: up to from a paranormal point of view, and why 509 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: that you're so intrigued? Well, to call William Dudley Pelley 510 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: and eccentric is probably about the nicest thing you'll hear 511 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,760 Speaker 1: about the fellow, especially in the mainstream And as I've 512 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:21,959 Speaker 1: told people, as I continue researching and writing about the man, UH, 513 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 1: just judging from the first couple of paragraphs of his 514 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: Wikipedia page, if you were to look up William Dudley Pelly, UH, 515 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,839 Speaker 1: if there aren't enough smear words and and UH bad 516 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: to ju there to scare you away, UM, you might 517 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,760 Speaker 1: worry for your soul because this guy is so thoroughly 518 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: demonized throughout contemporary accounts and nowadays, Uh he's mostly forgotten, 519 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,839 Speaker 1: but when he is referred to, it's always in the 520 00:36:54,920 --> 00:37:02,320 Speaker 1: same breath as Hitler, Uh, Nazis, fascist, anti semi, etcetera, etcetera. 521 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: But I began to sort of envision his uh is 522 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: crazy like a Fox way of promoting himself. And I 523 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: think I'm onto something because throughout the nineteen thirties he 524 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 1: was the head of a militia and occult militia as 525 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, called the Silver Legion of America, 526 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 1: better known as the Silver Shirts. They also believed in 527 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: spirit communication and channeling and all of these sort of things. 528 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: And time for a break. When we come back, I'll 529 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: wrap up my conversation with the paranormal detective Vance Pollock. 530 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: I'm Joshua P. Warren. You're listening to Strange Things on 531 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal 532 00:37:50,000 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 1: Podcast Network. I'll be right back. Welcome back to the 533 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 1: final segment of this edition of Strange Things on the 534 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 535 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Joshua Pete Warren, and now back to 536 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 1: my conversation with Vance Pollock talking about William Dudley Pelly 537 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: and his eccentric group. And one of the first things 538 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: that people will do to discredit Pelly is to remind 539 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: us that he had an experience where he quote unquote 540 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,879 Speaker 1: died and went to heaven and that he came back 541 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: claiming to be channeling Christ, which in a manner of speaking, 542 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: is accurate. He did claim to have had a near 543 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: death experience or an out of body experience where he 544 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 1: found himself in the company of deceased friends, and after 545 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: he woke up from that experience or came came back 546 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: through the veil, Uh, he said that he was communicating 547 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: with these people Claire audiently and gradually he says that 548 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 1: the clear audience messages he's receiving are more and more profound, 549 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,479 Speaker 1: and using a lady in his company to take down 550 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: some of these messages through automatic writing. That that's kind 551 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 1: of an old fashioned version of the Luigi board, basically 552 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,240 Speaker 1: where a man is holding a woman's wrist and she's 553 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: holding a pencil, and the pencil writes on a pad 554 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 1: of paper or the message, much as you would get 555 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 1: the message from the planchet on Norwegia board or a 556 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,280 Speaker 1: spirit board. In the company of this woman, Kelly said 557 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 1: he first experienced what he called the master vibration, where 558 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: the room almost felt like it was shaking, almost as 559 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 1: if there were were an earthquake, and um under that influence, 560 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: he took down the first of what he called his 561 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 1: Golden Scripts, which he later believed were his sole purpose 562 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 1: in this lifetime to record these master messages, which are 563 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: kind of like Kelly's version of the Book of Mormon. 564 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 1: But anyway, I realized that he knew as he exposed 565 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 1: himself to publicly as as the leader of this organization, 566 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: that he would be uh demonized in the mainstream, and 567 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,960 Speaker 1: that he also realized coming out of Hollywood, where he 568 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 1: had been a writer and a publicity agent for celebrities 569 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: in Hollywood during the nineteen twenties, during that silent era 570 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: of film that any publicity is good publicity. And he 571 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: really embraced any sort of sensationalism or extreme sort of 572 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,480 Speaker 1: over the top descriptions that he could get as long 573 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 1: as it got him ink. As they say in the 574 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 1: publicity business. Uh, any publicity's good publicity. So he allowed 575 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,439 Speaker 1: them to say all of this, calling what they will 576 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:36,400 Speaker 1: in the paper. Uh. He never really tried to correct 577 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,399 Speaker 1: any of that. He allowed himself to be branded an 578 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 1: arch villain. So that's where American arch Villain uh came 579 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 1: as the working title for the series of essays I'm 580 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 1: writing about him. Now. Yeah, now this is on sub stack, right, 581 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,919 Speaker 1: How can people see what you're you're up to there? 582 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:58,280 Speaker 1: All right? Well, the American arch Villain sub stack project 583 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: is at archville dot sub stack dot com. And I 584 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:09,840 Speaker 1: want those essays to the familiar people, uh, people familiar 585 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: with Pelly's life and work to a degree, I want 586 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: them to see that I've really put in the research 587 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 1: and that is uh. During the nineteen nineties, I interviewed 588 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: not less than twelve people who were acquainted with Pelly 589 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,879 Speaker 1: and his movement who were in their eighties at that time, 590 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,760 Speaker 1: and of course they're all a long gone now, um, 591 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:36,839 Speaker 1: but I had collected the number of firsthand accounts from 592 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:41,400 Speaker 1: people who were associated with Pelly, acquainted with him, and 593 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:45,359 Speaker 1: now I'm I'm trying to get all of this information 594 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: and there's there's literally they're literally tubs and notebooks full 595 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,759 Speaker 1: of information that I've collected on this fellow over the 596 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,560 Speaker 1: last thirty years. And if there's anybody who wants to 597 00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,320 Speaker 1: reach out to me, you can certainly do it through that, 598 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: uh that current Pelly writing project, which is the American 599 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:07,320 Speaker 1: arch Villain and it's at arch Villain dot sub stack 600 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:13,279 Speaker 1: dot com and you can contact me through the sub 601 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,440 Speaker 1: stack page that way, and if you need help with spelling, 602 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 1: that is A R C h V I L L 603 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:25,160 Speaker 1: A I N dot s U B S T A 604 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,640 Speaker 1: c K dot com, arch Villain dot substack dot com. 605 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,320 Speaker 1: Thanks so much to Vance for being on the show 606 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,759 Speaker 1: and listen. You should just follow him however you can, 607 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 1: because goodness knows where his research will lead him and 608 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,279 Speaker 1: he's always up to something. So that was a lot 609 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:45,319 Speaker 1: of fun, and you know, think about this, uh one 610 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,360 Speaker 1: thing that's refreshing about Vance's approach is that I could 611 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: say to somebody like, how do you investigate spirits? And 612 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,279 Speaker 1: the person goes, well, I get my E M F meter, 613 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,600 Speaker 1: and then I get my infrared camera and then I 614 00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,920 Speaker 1: get my audio recorder. That Vance says it due an 615 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:04,440 Speaker 1: you that uh, he just sort of opens his mind 616 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,400 Speaker 1: and sort of asked the universe to show him the 617 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:13,280 Speaker 1: way and then things. He's very observant. He starts noticing 618 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:17,480 Speaker 1: things and the universe kind of leads him along the 619 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,359 Speaker 1: pathway to discovery. And for those of you who are 620 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,160 Speaker 1: interested in doing spiritual research but you're not very like 621 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: tech oriented or whatever, I mean, this can be a 622 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:32,760 Speaker 1: very effective and um and much more organic simple way 623 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,280 Speaker 1: of you sort of approaching this process of tapping into 624 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,080 Speaker 1: the acoustic record or something like that. So there's a 625 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:44,479 Speaker 1: lot to learn from studying advances approach. So so great 626 00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,360 Speaker 1: to talk to him. Hey, let me see if I 627 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,719 Speaker 1: can squeeze in a listener email before we are out 628 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 1: of time. This comes from Danielle. She wrote, I don't 629 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,239 Speaker 1: even know where to start, Joshua. I have so much 630 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,160 Speaker 1: I want to share with you, but there are so 631 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,759 Speaker 1: many events, so much detail. I'll just have to try 632 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:08,319 Speaker 1: and stay on point. I've been desperately searching for you, 633 00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,200 Speaker 1: not knowing who you would be. I put it out there, 634 00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,319 Speaker 1: allowed and clear to the universe that I need some 635 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,759 Speaker 1: sort of clarification, and you're the only person that is 636 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,160 Speaker 1: spoken of and described these strange things or even the 637 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,319 Speaker 1: possibility of and such such of a way that I 638 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,640 Speaker 1: can relate to. I can say that I've experienced about 639 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:33,400 Speaker 1: everything strange over the last two years, from portals and 640 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: parallel dimensions, shadow and hat people, entities, creatures, demons, ghost, extraterrestrials, UFOs, 641 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:46,560 Speaker 1: you name it. The majority of these experiences occurred in 642 00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,560 Speaker 1: a home I was renting in East Texas. I believe 643 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,440 Speaker 1: there was a portal very strongly. It was a hell house. 644 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,239 Speaker 1: I didn't even believe in this sort of thing, or 645 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 1: that any of this was possible. I heavily questioned myself 646 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,160 Speaker 1: at first, but I wasn't the only one to have 647 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,760 Speaker 1: the experience. I knew without proof, though, that not only 648 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,360 Speaker 1: would no one believe me, but I wouldn't believe myself. 649 00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:16,000 Speaker 1: So I started to document everything visible or not. I 650 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,279 Speaker 1: knew I was seeing things, but more so I could 651 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:22,800 Speaker 1: feel the presence. I started taking pictures, videos, recording sounds, 652 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,600 Speaker 1: looking for an explanation to this phenomenon, or just simply 653 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,920 Speaker 1: that nothing would be actually there. When I looked at 654 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,960 Speaker 1: the images, hundreds of photos turned into thousands and thousands 655 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,920 Speaker 1: more and thousands more, and it literally consumed me. I 656 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,560 Speaker 1: am miraculously survived six months in this house, but I 657 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:46,120 Speaker 1: was so confused, fearful, and traumatized for my own well being. 658 00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,600 Speaker 1: I decided to seek out a healer, and she explained 659 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,200 Speaker 1: in simple terms what I was seeing, and that it's everywhere, 660 00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,440 Speaker 1: but not everyone can see it. She told me I 661 00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,160 Speaker 1: have a bit of a sixth sense, that I'm very 662 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,360 Speaker 1: intuitive well as telepathic, and she taught me how to 663 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,719 Speaker 1: use the light as my protection. Well it helped for 664 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,319 Speaker 1: a little while, anyway, and I just tried to leave 665 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 1: it all behind and get back to reality. But little 666 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,239 Speaker 1: did I know this would become my new reality. I 667 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,080 Speaker 1: was seeing these shadows and entities more and more and 668 00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:24,080 Speaker 1: having that eerie feeling again. For some reason, I decided 669 00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,520 Speaker 1: to revisit those photos again. I never really looked at 670 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,359 Speaker 1: all of them, maybe ten percent. So I've been going 671 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,000 Speaker 1: through them now and I'm astonished at what I captured. 672 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,480 Speaker 1: It's almost as if they wanted to be seen. It's 673 00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:40,160 Speaker 1: chilling and sickening at the same time. I feel like 674 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,399 Speaker 1: I have the proof everyone has been looking for. I've 675 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,560 Speaker 1: never seen anything like it on the web or a 676 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,480 Speaker 1: TV documentary. And I also picked up messages, which I 677 00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,400 Speaker 1: ignored for the most part because I didn't know what 678 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:54,800 Speaker 1: I was dealing with, whether whether it was good or bad. 679 00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:59,040 Speaker 1: It sounded like angels and demons in my opinion. I 680 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,840 Speaker 1: knew it was danger risk, though, and I could lose 681 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:07,720 Speaker 1: myself or worse, be possessed. I do think I have attachments. Basically, 682 00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 1: I'm seeking your assistance. I don't know what to do 683 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,239 Speaker 1: to persuade you to help me or work with me, 684 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,319 Speaker 1: but I'll take a simple referral to someone who can. 685 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,640 Speaker 1: At this point, I've thought about publishing this evidence, but 686 00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,440 Speaker 1: I'd like to share it with someone like you. First, 687 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,520 Speaker 1: get a different point of view, discuss it, get honest feedback, 688 00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,719 Speaker 1: and go there with go from there with it. Uh. 689 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,480 Speaker 1: Please let me know if this email reaches you, I 690 00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:36,240 Speaker 1: will sort three images, create an album and UH. Anyway, 691 00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:41,080 Speaker 1: thanks for your time and your podcast best regard. So, UH, 692 00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,919 Speaker 1: we're looking at her stuff right now. I said, Hey, 693 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,920 Speaker 1: I'm sending this to Mobius. He is the chief of 694 00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,719 Speaker 1: our analysis department, and I'll let you know if we 695 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,720 Speaker 1: find anything cool. Thanks Danielle. Let's wrap this up, folks 696 00:48:53,800 --> 00:49:22,800 Speaker 1: with the good Fortune tone. That's it for this edition 697 00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,320 Speaker 1: of the show. Follow me on Twitter at Joshua pe Warren, 698 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,000 Speaker 1: Plus visit Joshua pe Warren dot com to sign up 699 00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:34,240 Speaker 1: for my free e newsletter to receive a free instant gift, 700 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,920 Speaker 1: and check out the cool Stuff and the Curiosity Shop 701 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:41,480 Speaker 1: all at Joshua pe Warren dot com. I have a 702 00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,280 Speaker 1: fun one lined up for you next time, I promise. 703 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,960 Speaker 1: So please tell all your friends to subscribe to this 704 00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:53,080 Speaker 1: show and to always remember the Golden Rule. Thank you 705 00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:57,280 Speaker 1: for listening, thank you for your interest in support, thank 706 00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,919 Speaker 1: you for staying curious, and I We'll talk to you 707 00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:06,440 Speaker 1: again soon. You've been listening to Strange Things on the 708 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,239 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast st a UM 709 00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:23,239 Speaker 1: Paranormal Podcast Network. Thanks for listening to the I Heart 710 00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,160 Speaker 1: Radio and Coast to Coast a and Paranormal Podcast Network. 711 00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,719 Speaker 1: Make sure and check out all our shows on the 712 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,279 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app or by going to I Heart 713 00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:36,760 Speaker 1: Radio dot com