WEBVTT - Rivers Cuomo on Weezer's New Approach and a Wild Nirvana Conspiracy 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:28.156 Pushkin. Most people know Rivers Cuomo as Weezer's brilliant, quirky 0:00:28.436 --> 0:00:36.556 bleed sing chops of water flood cascading from the sky 0:00:36.756 --> 0:00:47.716 and it streaks my winship who I opened up the door. 0:00:49.156 --> 0:00:51.236 But one thing you may not know is that several 0:00:51.316 --> 0:00:54.196 years ago a bizarre conspiracy theory started to make its 0:00:54.276 --> 0:00:57.316 way around the web. The Rivers was actually Kurt Cobain, 0:00:57.796 --> 0:01:00.956 as in Kurt stage Is suicide in nineteen ninety four 0:01:01.116 --> 0:01:04.596 and carried on living his life as Rivers Cuomo. While 0:01:04.676 --> 0:01:07.516 Nirvana and Weezer at seemingly opposite ends of the nineties 0:01:07.596 --> 0:01:11.076 music spectrum, a close look reveals they're actually a lot 0:01:11.116 --> 0:01:15.156 more similar than you might think. In anticipation of Weezer's 0:01:15.156 --> 0:01:19.276 ambitious and incredibly catchy new album Okay Human, Rivers explains 0:01:19.276 --> 0:01:21.676 to Rick Rubin why the band ditched their classic guitar 0:01:21.716 --> 0:01:25.196 based style for an orchestral sound. They also talk about 0:01:25.236 --> 0:01:28.156 the specific substances that Rivers took to write the hit 0:01:28.236 --> 0:01:32.356 song hash Pipe, and Rivers entertains the Kurt Cobain conspiracy 0:01:32.596 --> 0:01:37.956 and plays along with Rick as if it were all true. 0:01:39.116 --> 0:01:41.796 This is broken record. Liner notes for the digital age 0:01:41.996 --> 0:01:49.756 I'm justin Richmonds. Here are old friends Rick Rubin and 0:01:49.836 --> 0:01:54.156 Rivers Cuomo talking over zoom. Have you seen the website, 0:01:54.356 --> 0:01:58.276 the conspiracy website that says that Kurt Cobain did not 0:01:58.356 --> 0:02:01.996 kill himself and that it's actually you are Kurt Cobain. 0:02:02.156 --> 0:02:04.836 Have you seen that? Yeah, I've heard of that is 0:02:04.916 --> 0:02:08.596 I hadn't seen the website before, and then just just 0:02:08.756 --> 0:02:11.796 yesterday somebody forwarded it to me. Is that like suddenly 0:02:11.836 --> 0:02:14.116 going around for some reason? It's I know that conspiracy 0:02:14.156 --> 0:02:16.476 has been around for a long time. I don't know. 0:02:16.516 --> 0:02:18.276 I just thought. I just thought the other day, and 0:02:18.396 --> 0:02:21.316 I thought interesting, and I thought it might even be 0:02:21.356 --> 0:02:24.396 interesting if I were to ask you questions as if 0:02:24.396 --> 0:02:27.876 it were true, because that could be fun for both 0:02:27.876 --> 0:02:33.556 of us. Yeah. So, if if you were Kurt, tell 0:02:33.596 --> 0:02:40.396 me how you imagine you would have transformed yourself into Rivers. Well, 0:02:41.196 --> 0:02:43.516 first of all, I'd have to stage my death, which 0:02:43.876 --> 0:02:47.796 seems seems easy enough. And then yeah, the Blue album 0:02:47.836 --> 0:02:50.956 came out a month later after he died. You could 0:02:50.996 --> 0:02:53.036 have been you could have been working on that like 0:02:53.836 --> 0:02:57.556 for years. Yeah, and I know he was. He seemed 0:02:57.556 --> 0:03:02.476 to be very interested in very like innocent naive music, 0:03:02.716 --> 0:03:08.156 like they covered the Raincoats, which is not that different 0:03:08.236 --> 0:03:12.076 from Wheezer. I guess, you know, major key and we 0:03:12.196 --> 0:03:14.276 kind of picked up picked up that ball and ran 0:03:14.356 --> 0:03:17.996 with it. So yeah, I think kind of running the 0:03:17.996 --> 0:03:22.036 opposite direction from grunge and you know where the button 0:03:22.076 --> 0:03:25.956 down shirts and cut your hair short and and sing 0:03:25.956 --> 0:03:31.036 with a very pure voice rather than rock voice. Yeah, 0:03:31.036 --> 0:03:34.516 it seems like that would be a nice um if you, like, 0:03:34.556 --> 0:03:38.276 if you're tired of being Kurt Cobain, this might be 0:03:38.316 --> 0:03:42.956 a nice career decision, like get away from all that madness, 0:03:43.796 --> 0:03:48.436 essentially canceled the past and starting new with no none 0:03:48.476 --> 0:03:52.836 of the old pressure of being in this the band 0:03:52.876 --> 0:03:56.116 that changed the world, and where you could just have 0:03:56.236 --> 0:04:00.836 fun and write pop songs and enjoy yourself. Yeah, I 0:04:00.916 --> 0:04:04.796 guess the grass is always greener, but yeah, and I 0:04:04.836 --> 0:04:08.076 think for for everyone outside of Nirvana, it seemed like 0:04:08.756 --> 0:04:11.556 he had did pretty good. Like that's what we all wanted, right, 0:04:11.596 --> 0:04:14.396 We want to be not only the band that's selling 0:04:15.436 --> 0:04:18.796 ten gazillion records, but like the band that everyone knows 0:04:18.876 --> 0:04:24.676 like they revolutionized music and culture. You know, they're always 0:04:24.716 --> 0:04:27.196 going to be that band and the rest of us 0:04:27.796 --> 0:04:31.076 We're just like little little dwarfs kind of dancing around 0:04:31.076 --> 0:04:34.996 their heels. But it looks like it felt bad enough 0:04:34.996 --> 0:04:39.276 for him to either end his life or decide to 0:04:39.356 --> 0:04:44.956 become you. One of the two, which is better? She 0:04:45.076 --> 0:04:54.116 is different stylistically. Did you have any in the transition 0:04:54.436 --> 0:04:59.396 from the songs you wrote for Nirvana versus the Weezer 0:04:59.396 --> 0:05:03.036 songs you wrote you decide to, like really clear the 0:05:03.116 --> 0:05:06.356 decks and and think of it in a new way. 0:05:07.516 --> 0:05:10.756 I think it all it all came about because I 0:05:10.956 --> 0:05:13.516 changed my style of singing. Now. When I was singing 0:05:14.636 --> 0:05:18.756 the very thick rock voice, so many overtones and all 0:05:18.756 --> 0:05:22.596 this distortion. Naturally in my vocal chords, I was able 0:05:22.676 --> 0:05:26.356 to sing one melody four times in a row and 0:05:26.396 --> 0:05:28.476 call that a verse four times in a row and 0:05:28.556 --> 0:05:31.276 call that a chorus, and no one would get tired 0:05:31.276 --> 0:05:34.916 of my voice because it was so rich. But once 0:05:34.916 --> 0:05:37.276 they started singing with a very pure voice, like a 0:05:37.356 --> 0:05:41.756 choirboy voice like you hear in say Buddy Holly, I 0:05:41.796 --> 0:05:44.876 had to change my melody writing in my chord writing 0:05:44.916 --> 0:05:49.076 because the voice just wasn't as rich. You gotta put 0:05:49.116 --> 0:05:52.956 the variation and the richness into the composition. So At 0:05:52.956 --> 0:05:56.516 that point I started writing a lot more involved chord 0:05:56.556 --> 0:06:01.916 progressions and melodies. Interesting, did you let anyone at all 0:06:01.996 --> 0:06:04.996 know what was going to happen or to be played? All? 0:06:05.036 --> 0:06:09.676 Pretty close to the best? I let my lawyer, No. 0:06:10.756 --> 0:06:14.836 But apart from that, I wanted to complete break. Were 0:06:14.916 --> 0:06:17.756 there any things that happened early on where you felt 0:06:17.756 --> 0:06:22.476 like you might get caught? No, there's there's been these 0:06:23.036 --> 0:06:28.596 conspiracies and movies about me, about my death, and I 0:06:28.636 --> 0:06:31.996 don't think anyone's really ever come close to figuring it 0:06:32.036 --> 0:06:37.196 out because it's Wheezer is just so different from Nirvana. 0:06:37.356 --> 0:06:42.076 Yes and no. Yes, I mean you both do the 0:06:42.156 --> 0:06:47.156 soft loud thing. You've sort of kept that in the repertoire. Yeah, 0:06:47.196 --> 0:06:52.276 I did that without even noticing. Honestly, Yeah, it's just habit. 0:06:52.356 --> 0:06:56.396 I hadn't yet broken. I thought the idea of adding 0:06:56.396 --> 0:06:59.036 the glasses was a great idea because it really is, 0:06:59.076 --> 0:07:03.956 like it's a perfect It camouflages your face in a 0:07:04.036 --> 0:07:09.436 way that it really does create a new persona. Yeah, 0:07:10.156 --> 0:07:13.196 but I did wear them in the big Nirvana video 0:07:13.676 --> 0:07:16.596 I was in Bloom, So it's just like a little 0:07:16.636 --> 0:07:22.596 breadcrumb for people who are really paying attention. I guess foreshadowing. Yeah, 0:07:22.676 --> 0:07:24.876 you know, I was actually shooting that video that gave 0:07:24.916 --> 0:07:28.036 me the whole idea. I was looking back at it 0:07:28.076 --> 0:07:30.556 and I was like, you know what, I look pretty 0:07:30.596 --> 0:07:34.556 pretty cool man. This is just like the biggest fu 0:07:34.916 --> 0:07:38.596 to what everyone wants from Nirvana is me and these 0:07:38.836 --> 0:07:43.396 dorky glasses. Yeah. I remember meeting you backstage at a 0:07:44.596 --> 0:07:47.356 at a Chili Pepper concert, and I didn't make the 0:07:47.356 --> 0:07:54.236 connection when I met you the Rivers you. I didn't 0:07:54.236 --> 0:07:57.516 make the connection then, But now looking back, it all 0:07:57.556 --> 0:08:01.716 makes perfect sense. Yeah. I was probably pretty out of 0:08:01.716 --> 0:08:04.516 it when you met me the first time. Right, You're 0:08:04.516 --> 0:08:06.156 pretty out of it when I met you the first time. 0:08:06.156 --> 0:08:09.636 You pretty out of it both times, actually both times 0:08:11.876 --> 0:08:14.836 in a different way, in a different way. Let's talk 0:08:14.876 --> 0:08:19.476 about how your songwriting has progressed over the years. You 0:08:19.516 --> 0:08:21.756 can start back as far as you're as you want, 0:08:23.476 --> 0:08:26.636 if you want to include the thinner running years or not, 0:08:27.636 --> 0:08:32.396 up to you. But your relationship to music and how 0:08:32.436 --> 0:08:37.956 your songwriting has evolved. Well, started out just about the guitar, 0:08:38.196 --> 0:08:42.716 really and wanting to shred and thinking if I get 0:08:42.836 --> 0:08:47.356 fast enough on with these harmonic minor scales, if I 0:08:47.356 --> 0:08:50.516 if I get my metronome setting up high enough, then 0:08:50.836 --> 0:08:53.396 I'm going to be a huge rock star and it's 0:08:53.396 --> 0:08:56.876 going to be great. So I moved with my band 0:08:56.956 --> 0:09:00.196 to LA and we've tried to shred our way to 0:09:00.316 --> 0:09:04.236 a record deal and nobody was interested. They were they 0:09:04.236 --> 0:09:10.596 were interested, and like something called songs and hooks and lyrics, 0:09:10.916 --> 0:09:14.476 and I was like, what the heck is all that about? 0:09:15.076 --> 0:09:20.356 But that became like technique for me. I was like, Okay, 0:09:20.356 --> 0:09:22.396 if if that's what it is, and I'll practice that, 0:09:22.436 --> 0:09:26.036 I'll work on that and until I in shred shred 0:09:26.076 --> 0:09:29.476 of Chorus. Basically, what were you listening to at the 0:09:29.516 --> 0:09:32.516 time that the shredding was going on? What we were inspirations? 0:09:32.596 --> 0:09:38.516 Then that would have been Ingvy Malmstein and Paul Gilbert 0:09:38.556 --> 0:09:43.596 and there's a number of other lesser known shredders. You know, 0:09:43.636 --> 0:09:48.076 it's all instrumental guitar solos, and the band felt apart 0:09:48.196 --> 0:09:52.076 that it was tough. It's five guys in a one 0:09:52.156 --> 0:09:56.196 room studio apartment on Cherokee right off Hollywood Boulevard, and 0:09:57.316 --> 0:09:59.276 you know, you turn the lights on it when you 0:09:59.316 --> 0:10:03.396 come home at night and thousands of cockroaches would scatter 0:10:03.476 --> 0:10:07.476 all over the kitchen counter. You know, it's just no 0:10:07.716 --> 0:10:10.156 fun for most guys. For me, I was like, this 0:10:10.236 --> 0:10:16.116 is amazing. Where did you move from in this story? 0:10:16.316 --> 0:10:19.876 I moved from a small town in northeastern Connecticut. And 0:10:19.956 --> 0:10:22.316 when most people think Connecticut, they think in New York. 0:10:22.356 --> 0:10:24.796 But New York seemed about as far away as La. 0:10:24.876 --> 0:10:27.716 To me, I was I was closer to like Providence, 0:10:27.836 --> 0:10:30.236 or you know, there was really no city around me 0:10:30.396 --> 0:10:33.796 is a college, rural college town right where Yukon is. 0:10:34.676 --> 0:10:39.956 There was a strange number of really talented musicians, like 0:10:40.116 --> 0:10:43.476 talented technically because we all just sat around and practice 0:10:43.516 --> 0:10:46.676 scales and our peggios and metronomes. And so eventually five 0:10:46.716 --> 0:10:49.236 of us moved to LA. And when that fell apart, 0:10:49.716 --> 0:10:52.556 I got a job at Tower Records and it was 0:10:52.636 --> 0:10:55.716 there that every every day, for eight hours a day, 0:10:55.756 --> 0:11:00.876 I was being exposed to quote cool music, and at 0:11:00.876 --> 0:11:04.196 first it just sounded like complete noise to me. It 0:11:04.276 --> 0:11:10.476 was like Thonic Youth Pixies as well as early Nirvana 0:11:10.556 --> 0:11:15.476 and Beach Boys. Pet Sounds reissue came out around or 0:11:15.636 --> 0:11:19.116 CD version came out around that time, and they hammered 0:11:19.116 --> 0:11:22.436 it into me day after day, and gradually it came 0:11:22.476 --> 0:11:25.476 to sink in and have a real influence. And I'd 0:11:25.516 --> 0:11:28.436 go home at night, pretty tired on the bus and 0:11:28.476 --> 0:11:31.396 get to my apartment and I got an eight track recorder, 0:11:31.436 --> 0:11:35.036 and actually that's when I started singing. I was like, well, 0:11:35.116 --> 0:11:37.236 my band broke up to that point, I'd just been 0:11:37.316 --> 0:11:39.796 the lead guitar player, and I was like, well, somebody's 0:11:39.836 --> 0:11:43.156 got to sing. So I tried to sing, and it 0:11:43.276 --> 0:11:47.716 sounded like somebody trying to sing early Nirvana basically, and 0:11:48.116 --> 0:11:50.516 I came to really love what I was doing. I'm 0:11:50.516 --> 0:11:54.196 sure nobody else would have, but it was very cathartic, 0:11:54.236 --> 0:11:56.796 and I would sit there and listen back to my 0:11:56.836 --> 0:12:00.076 cassettes and just I don't know if I literally shed tears, 0:12:00.116 --> 0:12:03.756 but I felt very emotional listening to my own voice 0:12:03.756 --> 0:12:07.156 and my own songs. It's like, yes, that's exactly how 0:12:07.236 --> 0:12:10.076 I feel, which in retros act you know, of course 0:12:10.116 --> 0:12:12.356 that's how I feel. I wrote that it was about 0:12:12.356 --> 0:12:15.436 how I feel. I knew that's why I wanted to 0:12:15.476 --> 0:12:17.996 do at that point. So and it was also through 0:12:18.036 --> 0:12:22.076 that job at Tower that I met my friend there 0:12:22.156 --> 0:12:26.276 who knew the other guys in Weezer, so he got 0:12:26.356 --> 0:12:29.516 he got me to jam with him and included those 0:12:29.556 --> 0:12:33.956 other guys. And there are a few false starts, a 0:12:33.956 --> 0:12:39.716 few strange iterations, including sixty wrong sausages, But eventually it 0:12:39.756 --> 0:12:44.316 turned into Weezer amazing lyrically, when you when you started 0:12:44.356 --> 0:12:48.076 writing those first songs on your eight track and you 0:12:48.156 --> 0:12:51.236 said that if the song sounded like you felt, do 0:12:51.276 --> 0:12:54.596 you remember lyrically what you were writing about. Would it 0:12:54.636 --> 0:12:57.196 have been based on something that you saw or something 0:12:57.236 --> 0:13:00.276 that you felt? Would it have been a diary line? 0:13:00.316 --> 0:13:06.556 In other words? Yeah, not so much external um observations, 0:13:06.596 --> 0:13:10.156 just more like my own feelings and my own philosophies, 0:13:11.076 --> 0:13:13.716 my own points of view, my own realizations. That's what 0:13:13.916 --> 0:13:17.756 it mainly is. It's like, oh, this is this is 0:13:17.756 --> 0:13:20.916 what's going on in the situation. Beautiful that you were 0:13:20.916 --> 0:13:24.116 able to feel it and happen to it and express it, 0:13:24.636 --> 0:13:29.996 and I imagine cathartic for you to give it voice 0:13:30.116 --> 0:13:32.636 and get it out, as opposed to just having it 0:13:32.716 --> 0:13:36.716 inside and drilling a hole in your in yourself. Yeah, 0:13:37.196 --> 0:13:39.516 I think I often use the word cathartic. I'm not 0:13:39.636 --> 0:13:43.156 sure that's exactly what it is. It's it's more like 0:13:43.316 --> 0:13:46.356 when I clarify exactly what's going on, and I'm specific 0:13:46.396 --> 0:13:48.956 about it, and I get it in words and melody. 0:13:49.436 --> 0:13:51.836 It's almost like I've got an outside of me now 0:13:51.876 --> 0:13:55.436 and now I'm in a way I'm healed, and I 0:13:55.516 --> 0:13:58.236 don't I don't necessarily have to fall into that pattern anymore. 0:13:58.996 --> 0:14:00.876 There's an example on a New Right. We're working on 0:14:00.876 --> 0:14:03.596 a record right now called Okay Human, and there's a 0:14:03.676 --> 0:14:09.236 song called numbers, and that one I just I found myself. 0:14:09.276 --> 0:14:11.236 I don't know what what song we had out, but 0:14:11.316 --> 0:14:14.876 every day I was checking checking a chart, like some 0:14:15.076 --> 0:14:18.236 radio chart. Well, you know, at first it's like it's 0:14:18.236 --> 0:14:20.956 going up, it's going up, this is amazing. And then 0:14:20.996 --> 0:14:23.636 of course it's going down. It's like, oh this this 0:14:23.716 --> 0:14:26.316 other band is getting higher than us and we're falling. 0:14:26.356 --> 0:14:29.356 And it was very painful. And then you know, it's 0:14:29.356 --> 0:14:32.836 like checking Instagram or how many likes or followers do 0:14:32.876 --> 0:14:38.396 I have and how many people retweeted this tweet I posted, 0:14:38.476 --> 0:14:41.436 and I realized, So it's just spending a lot of 0:14:41.476 --> 0:14:46.596 time and emotional energy looking at numbers, which we're telling 0:14:46.636 --> 0:14:51.996 me what my worth was in. So I wrote a 0:14:52.036 --> 0:14:55.596 song specifically about that. There's always a number that'll make 0:14:55.636 --> 0:14:59.196 you feel bad about yourself, and so what since I 0:14:59.236 --> 0:15:02.676 wrote that song, I don't Maybe as soon as I 0:15:02.676 --> 0:15:06.556 start to feel that instinct check a number, I'm like, now, 0:15:06.636 --> 0:15:07.876 you know, I don't need to do that. I know 0:15:07.916 --> 0:15:15.156 what's going to happen. Beautiful. Is there ever, or always 0:15:15.196 --> 0:15:22.676 a relationship between the valence of the lyrics and the 0:15:22.756 --> 0:15:27.636 sound of the music. I remember hearing very frequently when 0:15:27.636 --> 0:15:30.796 we put out our first album that there was a 0:15:30.836 --> 0:15:34.076 big mismatch between the emotion of the lyrics and the 0:15:34.076 --> 0:15:39.596 emotion of music. Many people said, oh, the music is 0:15:39.596 --> 0:15:42.276 so happy, it just makes you want to smile and 0:15:42.916 --> 0:15:47.756 jump around, and but man, these lyrics are depressing. So 0:15:47.836 --> 0:15:51.436 I don't know how it happened. But when I'm writing it, 0:15:51.476 --> 0:15:54.036 there's definitely a match, But when people were hearing it, 0:15:54.076 --> 0:15:57.596 there's a mismatch. And I think sometimes there's something really 0:15:57.596 --> 0:16:03.036 interesting about that, Like hearing an energetically happy song with 0:16:03.196 --> 0:16:08.036 really sad lyrics is much more interesting than one that 0:16:08.116 --> 0:16:12.236 where it's everything's match. It plays on different levels and 0:16:12.356 --> 0:16:16.276 it gives it depth. Yeah, And I just I think 0:16:16.276 --> 0:16:19.676 I just love happy music or happy Maybe happy is 0:16:19.876 --> 0:16:25.156 the wrong word. It's more like triumphant and uplifting. I 0:16:25.596 --> 0:16:31.396 don't like music that's too like weak and sad, you know, Matt. 0:16:31.516 --> 0:16:34.076 Matt always would say, what do you love? My about 0:16:34.116 --> 0:16:39.636 my music writing was that it sounded like somebody waving 0:16:39.636 --> 0:16:43.916 a big flag from across a stadium, just in Triumph, 0:16:44.036 --> 0:16:47.236 so he called it my my flag waving. Yeah, we 0:16:47.276 --> 0:16:49.956 would use the word anthemic sometimes, so we would talk 0:16:49.996 --> 0:16:53.076 about some of your hooks when you wrote one of those, like, wow, 0:16:53.116 --> 0:16:58.276 that really sounds anthemic. That's right, it's a great, great feeling. Well, 0:16:58.316 --> 0:17:06.116 I've certainly tried many different approaches in the how many 0:17:06.156 --> 0:17:12.196 years has been? Twenty twenties years? Wow, I could be 0:17:12.236 --> 0:17:15.116 a decade off that math is not my strong suit. 0:17:15.196 --> 0:17:19.356 But this album I'm talking about, okay Human is all piano, 0:17:19.756 --> 0:17:22.956 not just piano compositions. But I don't play any guitar 0:17:22.996 --> 0:17:25.716 on the whole album. It's just all on piano and 0:17:25.956 --> 0:17:29.716 with an orchestra. That is that is very different. And 0:17:30.636 --> 0:17:33.516 I'm able to do all this stuff that I just 0:17:33.556 --> 0:17:37.796 can't do on a guitar. And I just posted this 0:17:38.116 --> 0:17:41.636 cover of my song heart shape Box or my d 0:17:41.676 --> 0:17:45.276 quotes song heart shape Box from my album in Utero. 0:17:45.716 --> 0:17:47.756 When I first started practicing. It was I was doing 0:17:47.756 --> 0:17:49.916 on guitar, and you know, it sounded like what you'd expect. 0:17:49.916 --> 0:17:53.876 It is basically like Nirvana cover. And then I was like, heck, 0:17:53.956 --> 0:17:56.156 I'll try it on piano, and man, I was like 0:17:56.436 --> 0:18:00.076 doing all this crazy stuff as background music on the piano. 0:18:00.156 --> 0:18:03.596 It's like playing this symphony orchestra on the piano, and 0:18:04.196 --> 0:18:08.236 it feels like this massive new frontier for me to explore. 0:18:09.156 --> 0:18:16.036 Did you originally write that one on piano? Uh? No? Um, 0:18:17.556 --> 0:18:21.476 I wrote that on my on my Fender Mustang UM 0:18:21.636 --> 0:18:26.036 and I did not even play piano back then. Cool. 0:18:26.516 --> 0:18:31.036 When did you learn to play piano? I learned to 0:18:31.116 --> 0:18:35.516 play piano. Um, right around the time, right after a 0:18:35.556 --> 0:18:38.996 stage my death. It was like, okay, let's let's try 0:18:39.036 --> 0:18:42.796 something totally different here, good idea. Yeah yeah, no one, 0:18:43.036 --> 0:18:45.996 No one would expect Kirt to play piano. The glasses 0:18:46.076 --> 0:18:49.876 the piano, it's like you're home free. It's a good disguise. 0:18:50.556 --> 0:18:55.076 And now the mustache, Yeah yeah, I almost didn't recognize it. 0:18:56.876 --> 0:18:59.836 I feel like it's a Beatles era mustache. I can't 0:18:59.876 --> 0:19:01.596 remember which one, but if we look at the Letter 0:19:01.636 --> 0:19:06.716 B album, someone has that mustache. Yeah, might be Paul 0:19:07.596 --> 0:19:11.476 maybe or it may have been Georgia. I can't remember. 0:19:12.036 --> 0:19:17.836 It definitely feels like yeah, and they had glasses too, Yeah, 0:19:17.876 --> 0:19:20.076 and then the hair could work. I mean you could 0:19:20.156 --> 0:19:26.436 be Yep, so be Nirvana, Weezer, Beatles would be your 0:19:26.636 --> 0:19:30.956 order of wow, three favorite bands right there? Can you? 0:19:31.196 --> 0:19:33.516 Can you be in one of your favorite bands? Is that? 0:19:33.596 --> 0:19:36.116 Does that work? Are you allowed to be on your 0:19:36.116 --> 0:19:38.276 list of favorite bands? You let to put yourself in it. 0:19:38.996 --> 0:19:43.756 I feel like if your band is unique enough, because yeah, 0:19:43.796 --> 0:19:46.036 I mean, no other band makes me feel like Weezer, 0:19:46.156 --> 0:19:48.956 so they have to be. I just love I love 0:19:48.956 --> 0:19:51.236 the music so much and there's nothing else quite like it, 0:19:51.396 --> 0:19:54.516 so they have to be on my list. After a 0:19:54.556 --> 0:19:57.636 quick break, we'll be back with Rivers Cuomo and Rick Rubin. 0:20:01.916 --> 0:20:04.636 We're back with more from Rivers Cuomo. There was a 0:20:04.676 --> 0:20:09.076 point where you decided, even after being a very successful musician, 0:20:09.276 --> 0:20:12.956 to go back to school. Yeah, tell me what you 0:20:12.996 --> 0:20:16.556 were thinking. Now. This is the time, like mid two thousands, 0:20:16.556 --> 0:20:18.956 as we were finishing up Make Believe. Is that is 0:20:18.956 --> 0:20:21.876 that the time you were talking about I think so, yeah, 0:20:21.916 --> 0:20:24.196 I remember there was a moment where we talked about 0:20:24.476 --> 0:20:28.356 the schedule had to be around the Harvard schedule because 0:20:28.356 --> 0:20:31.796 you were going back, right, Okay, I seem to remember 0:20:31.916 --> 0:20:36.476 I really wanted to get married, and it seemed like 0:20:36.996 --> 0:20:39.796 a good, good place to meet somebody if you want 0:20:39.796 --> 0:20:42.236 to get married. Maybe not so much anymore, but there 0:20:42.316 --> 0:20:44.556 was there was a time when that was the result 0:20:44.596 --> 0:20:46.836 of going to college, as you'd find somebody and get married, 0:20:47.436 --> 0:20:49.676 and you find a lot of like minded people there, 0:20:50.276 --> 0:20:52.956 you know. Of course I have many motivations for anything 0:20:52.956 --> 0:20:55.756 I do, for whatever breakfast serial I pick in the morning, 0:20:55.796 --> 0:20:58.676 but that I think that was near the top of 0:20:58.716 --> 0:21:04.676 my list for reasons. And also I just like finishing stuff. 0:21:04.676 --> 0:21:07.836 I start like in a slightly OCD way, like, gosh, 0:21:07.876 --> 0:21:11.756 I'm so close to having a degree. It doesn't really matter, 0:21:11.796 --> 0:21:14.476 I don't really need it, but why not just finish 0:21:14.476 --> 0:21:19.636 it up? And then, of course I love learning, and 0:21:19.676 --> 0:21:21.556 that's why I went back in the first place. In 0:21:21.556 --> 0:21:25.036 the mid nineties, at the height of the Blue album success. 0:21:25.836 --> 0:21:28.356 This is so bored going around the country over and 0:21:28.396 --> 0:21:33.556 over in a tour bus. There's no intellectual stimulations. So 0:21:34.316 --> 0:21:37.036 we were we happened to be in Boston and I 0:21:37.076 --> 0:21:39.036 went to Harvard, and I was like, man, this place 0:21:39.116 --> 0:21:41.476 is great. Let me get an application. I filled it 0:21:41.476 --> 0:21:44.556 out and I got accepted, so it's like, yeah, I'm 0:21:44.556 --> 0:21:49.236 gonna do this, and it was fun. It's really stimulating. 0:21:49.676 --> 0:21:53.236 And even now every morning, first thing I do is 0:21:54.236 --> 0:21:59.636 log into con Academy and start working on algebra. Totally useless. 0:22:00.156 --> 0:22:02.556 I was right when I was fourteen and not doing 0:22:02.596 --> 0:22:05.276 my homework that you know, there's there's no use for 0:22:05.316 --> 0:22:07.556 this in my life as a rock star. But I 0:22:07.676 --> 0:22:10.356 just like these little puzzles and working on them and 0:22:10.916 --> 0:22:16.796 keeps my brain occupied and stretched out and tickled. This 0:22:16.916 --> 0:22:19.716 is the opposite of what you just said, but I'll 0:22:19.836 --> 0:22:22.716 ask it just occurs to me. Was there any part 0:22:22.756 --> 0:22:24.916 of you that felt like, well, I guess you said 0:22:24.956 --> 0:22:29.756 the boring aspect of repetitive nature of being on tour. 0:22:31.076 --> 0:22:35.676 Was there any sense of escaping your rock star life 0:22:35.796 --> 0:22:39.316 by going back to schools? Well, definitely. The first time 0:22:39.356 --> 0:22:43.676 I went there, we were we were at our low 0:22:43.756 --> 0:22:48.116 point interpersonally, and the whole experience of becoming a rock 0:22:48.156 --> 0:22:52.756 star was pretty disillusioning, as it was for apparently so 0:22:52.796 --> 0:22:57.876 many musicians of our generation, like you finally get this 0:22:57.916 --> 0:23:00.476 thing you always wanted, and then you're miserable. I don't. 0:23:00.476 --> 0:23:02.556 It seems like that doesn't happen as much anymore. But 0:23:03.236 --> 0:23:06.396 one of the many motivations was I want to get 0:23:06.396 --> 0:23:08.036 away from this and I don't know if I'm ever 0:23:08.116 --> 0:23:12.876 coming back, and I just want to disappear and screw 0:23:12.956 --> 0:23:16.436 that whole life. Basically, well, I'm glad you decided to 0:23:16.476 --> 0:23:19.716 go back to school instead of feigning your suicide again, 0:23:20.676 --> 0:23:24.676 because I would be really sad if if Rivers was 0:23:24.756 --> 0:23:29.596 believed not to be alive. I admssed you a lot. Yeah, 0:23:29.636 --> 0:23:32.876 thank you. We talked a little bit about the way 0:23:32.956 --> 0:23:35.676 you've written in the way that it has. You've tried 0:23:35.676 --> 0:23:39.676 different things, but essentially the way you wrote on your 0:23:39.756 --> 0:23:41.356 new album and the way you wrote on your first 0:23:41.356 --> 0:23:45.916 album are pretty close. Is the way you appreciate music 0:23:45.956 --> 0:23:52.356 the same. No. I think in the early nineties I 0:23:52.516 --> 0:23:56.796 was I would get obsessed with a record or a 0:23:56.836 --> 0:24:00.676 few records, and often it would be an artist or 0:24:00.956 --> 0:24:04.676 a few artists. I remember I was just mad about 0:24:04.756 --> 0:24:10.716 Jesus Christ Superstar soundtrack, all the Beach Boys stuff, especially 0:24:10.756 --> 0:24:16.236 pet Sounds, all the Beatles stuff. Then there was Van Morrison, 0:24:16.276 --> 0:24:21.596 astral Weeks and Love Forever Changes, so I'd go through 0:24:21.636 --> 0:24:26.156 these phases of real deep obsession with a particular album 0:24:26.316 --> 0:24:32.556 or artist. And now I've gotten really into computer programming, 0:24:32.596 --> 0:24:35.996 and I wrote this program that creates a Spotify playlist 0:24:36.116 --> 0:24:40.356 for me every day, and it's extremely eclectic and wide 0:24:40.436 --> 0:24:43.956 ranging and anything I could possibly be interested in, it 0:24:43.996 --> 0:24:46.276 will take a sampling of it, and then it mixes 0:24:46.316 --> 0:24:48.836 it all together and presented to me every day. And 0:24:48.916 --> 0:24:52.036 so I just listened like that, and I'm just I 0:24:52.116 --> 0:24:56.236 just very quickly go through songs like because it's easy 0:24:56.236 --> 0:24:58.276 for me to mark, like Okay, I don't want to 0:24:58.276 --> 0:25:01.956 hear this again for another eight hundred songs, or I 0:25:01.996 --> 0:25:03.556 never want to hear this again, I never want to 0:25:03.556 --> 0:25:05.676 hear this artist again, or I want to hear more 0:25:05.796 --> 0:25:08.636 of this album. I can give it these all the 0:25:08.676 --> 0:25:13.236 instruct to the algorithm very easily, and so the playlist 0:25:13.356 --> 0:25:18.796 is constantly evolving for my taste every day. And I 0:25:18.836 --> 0:25:21.436 guess it's a it's a very different way to take 0:25:21.516 --> 0:25:25.436 things in. Tell me how will tell you more about 0:25:25.476 --> 0:25:28.276 the algorithm. How does it decide to what to add 0:25:28.276 --> 0:25:32.716 to your lists? Okay, so it gets some songs from 0:25:32.756 --> 0:25:38.196 pop radio and alternative radio, some songs from top songs 0:25:38.196 --> 0:25:43.516 on iTunes and some of the playlists on Spotify Today's 0:25:43.556 --> 0:25:49.156 Top Pits, and then any songs I've heard, you know, 0:25:49.236 --> 0:25:51.116 sometimes I just hear a song, happen to hear a song, 0:25:51.156 --> 0:25:54.396 and I like it, so it will add those, and 0:25:54.436 --> 0:25:57.556 then songs from New Music Friday, and then there's a 0:25:57.956 --> 0:26:03.636 bunch of specific playlists. I like to take examples from Beethoven, Bach, 0:26:04.276 --> 0:26:10.116 heavy Metal, bubblegum pop, Rolling Stones, Top five hundred album 0:26:10.116 --> 0:26:12.396 and then whatever albums I happen to be interested or 0:26:12.476 --> 0:26:16.156 checking or I'm checking out, like right now Mitski is 0:26:16.196 --> 0:26:22.476 in there, and The White Reaper, then alternative nineties, hot country, 0:26:23.276 --> 0:26:26.196 Lauretta Lynn, and then I have a cool playlist called 0:26:26.196 --> 0:26:29.996 Obscure Wheezer, which is basically every Weezer or Rivers solo 0:26:30.076 --> 0:26:33.556