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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel

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Speaker 1: one thirty till on Saturday, October twenty two and two

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Speaker 1: thousand five, Terry Grinstead went missing from her residence. As

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Speaker 1: the hours turned into days, days in two weeks, weeks

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Speaker 1: in two months, and eventually months into years, the search

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Speaker 1: efforts never ceased. A few days ago, an individual came

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Speaker 1: forward and reported that they had information into Terror's disappearance.

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Speaker 1: Enough probable cause was discovered so we could swear out

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Speaker 1: and a restaurant charging Ryan Alexander due with the murder

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Speaker 1: of Tera Grinstead. We always believe that it would be soft.

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Speaker 1: We just did not know when a gorgeous high school

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Speaker 1: teacher suddenly just disappears. And not only is she literally

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Speaker 1: a beauty queen, she's brilliant, already gotten her master's and

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Speaker 1: on track to get her pH d at as well.

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Speaker 1: But then it's just the oddest thing out of the blue.

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Speaker 1: She just seemingly disappears off the face of the earth.

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Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. When I met Tara Grinstead's mother, the

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Speaker 1: pain just emanating from her, the sorrow, the questions, her

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Speaker 1: quiet suffering, spoke volumes to me. She walked me through

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Speaker 1: Terra's home, and I've said this before. It looked like

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Speaker 1: a little jewelry box. It was so perfect. It was

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Speaker 1: like she had gotten a Ballard design magazine and done

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Speaker 1: it all herself. But I knew with the pearls broken

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Speaker 1: on the bedroom floor, a lamp askew, and then literally

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Speaker 1: a broken bedpost, that Tara was gone and Tara would

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Speaker 1: not come back. It was a missing person's case to

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Speaker 1: start with, but that quickly took a different track to homicide.

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Speaker 1: Why it has remained a mystery for so many years

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Speaker 1: in the little town of Oscilla and beyond is because

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Speaker 1: the guy finally arrested had just been a student at

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Speaker 1: the school where Tara taught. No real connection between them

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Speaker 1: what went down the night Tara Grinstead disappeared. Another clue

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Speaker 1: we had was her car. She isn't eat Nick, and

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Speaker 1: her car was always You know, there's people alan that

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Speaker 1: the car looks brand new and even smells new. Have

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Speaker 1: you ever seen those people? Not me? Of course yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I've always been astounded and amazed and perplexed by them.

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Speaker 1: But Tara was and eat Nick. Her car was always perfect.

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Speaker 1: But when the cops looked at her car after she

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Speaker 1: goes missing, they find it covered in mud and the

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Speaker 1: driver's seat pushed back to accommodate a tall person and

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Speaker 1: it was left that way. That's not right, Alan, I

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Speaker 1: mean that just really starts at how does the story unfold?

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Speaker 1: Still no justice yet in the case of Tara Grinstead.

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Speaker 1: You know what, Alan, Let's just start at the beginning, Okay.

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Speaker 1: Joining me is an expert in the Terry Grinstead disappearance.

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Speaker 1: It's Dr Maurice Godwin. Dr Maurice Godwin actually was hired

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Speaker 1: by Terra's family to get to the bottom of her disappearance.

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Speaker 1: We know that one arrest has been made, an arrest

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Speaker 1: of someone nobody expected, a student of hers, about two

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Speaker 1: or three years before she went missing. But this case

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Speaker 1: is far from over. Let's go back, Dr Godwin and

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Speaker 1: review what we know to be true as we still

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Speaker 1: search for Terry Grinstead and whoever may have been involved

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Speaker 1: in her disappearance. Dr Godwin, take me back to the

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Speaker 1: day she went missing. What happened? She had awesome girls

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Speaker 1: over because during pagettry the paget stuff and everything, and

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Speaker 1: try to trying to coach the kids and stuff and

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Speaker 1: in how to be in beauty pagets, the makeup, the hair, Oh,

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Speaker 1: dear Lord in heaven, that is an ordeal grande. So

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Speaker 1: she was mentoring these young girls, right, that's right. So

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Speaker 1: during the day on ill covered, Uh that Sarady she

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Speaker 1: had some girls over to her home and uh they

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Speaker 1: were doing hair and make up for preparation for a

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Speaker 1: beauty paget that night, that Sara Deny and Fitzgerald she

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Speaker 1: was going to the beauty paget also miss sweet Potato

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Speaker 1: padget and so hey, wait a minute, wait a minute.

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Speaker 1: With several people, I'm a little shot. I've got two

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Speaker 1: producers in the room with me. And what is actually

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Speaker 1: laughing when you said miss sweet Potato? And I really

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Speaker 1: resent that, Jackie. I've never disagreed with you before. I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you why. That's a lot of hard work. And

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Speaker 1: people pass off these contestants as dumb bunnies. That is

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Speaker 1: so not true. You go try to squeeze into a

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Speaker 1: size to swimsuit and answer difficult questions about politics and geography.

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Speaker 1: Good luck, mommy, Okay, Well she was doing it for

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Speaker 1: the scholarship money. Yes, that's right, and that's that's really there.

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Speaker 1: I hope you heard that, Jackie. Okay, just stop gesticulating

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Speaker 1: at me. Okay, back to Dr God. When going, I

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Speaker 1: mean that was the only reason really, she was doing

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Speaker 1: a scholarship money. And so she went to off Itz

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Speaker 1: Geryl and she left about seven thirty. One of her

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Speaker 1: the girls that was at the paget, named Dana. She

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Speaker 1: walked with Tara out to Tara's car. And despite other

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Speaker 1: reports and stuff, a few recent reports in the last

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Speaker 1: six months, Tara was in good spirits and and Tara

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Speaker 1: told her that she had to go to her bosses

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Speaker 1: Barbaracan right, it was was that her was that the

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Speaker 1: Prince school principal or their superintendent of schools. It was

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Speaker 1: the superintendent of the school, the county guest. Did he

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Speaker 1: refuse to take a DNA test? Yes, but he refused,

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Speaker 1: he refused, But they got it anyhow how did they

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Speaker 1: get it? They would never tell me, but they You

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Speaker 1: know what, it's so it's so easy to get DNA.

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Speaker 1: You know, you watch somebody a restaurant. The minute they

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Speaker 1: get up, you go get their glass, bam done. They

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Speaker 1: got DNA from them. You know. That left him under

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Speaker 1: a cloud of suspicion because he refused to give DNA,

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Speaker 1: but he, as it turns out, he had absolutely nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with this. That's correct. I energect to go ahead,

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Speaker 1: but he was I mean I had him on my

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Speaker 1: radar for a long time and he refused to talk

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Speaker 1: to me in six anyway, she went to his barbecue,

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Speaker 1: arriving about eight o'clock PM, and she had a good time.

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Speaker 1: She was chatting and stuff and she um. During that

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Speaker 1: time at the barbecue, she received a number of phone calls.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, did she arrive and leave alone? Yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: she arrived at eight o'clock PM. Something the phone calls,

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Speaker 1: they claimed with paget girls calling her to thank her

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Speaker 1: and everything. But about ten twenty she received a phone

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Speaker 1: call and that was the detective from a Perry Georgia.

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Speaker 1: He still had a crush on her. Yeah, they were

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Speaker 1: seeing each other anyway. They said the goodbyes and she

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Speaker 1: said I love you too. That was at ten twenty.

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Speaker 1: So she left around eleven o'clock and it's zero point

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Speaker 1: seven tenths of a mile from that house to her house.

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Speaker 1: She drove back to her house and she was she

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Speaker 1: was never seen since. Wow, I didn't know it was

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Speaker 1: such a short distance. Dr Godwin. So this is what

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Speaker 1: I know. I know that she was a neat freak,

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Speaker 1: and I know that on her vehicle when they when

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Speaker 1: police looked at it after she was reported missing, it

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Speaker 1: was covered in mud and she would never have done that,

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Speaker 1: and that the driver's seat had been pushed back, which

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Speaker 1: all you ladies you know what I mean. It is

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Speaker 1: so irritating you get in your car and your husband

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Speaker 1: or some guy has been in it and I can't

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Speaker 1: even I'm only five one, I can't even touch the gas. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So they noticed that immediately. She lived alone, so who

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Speaker 1: else that evening had driven her car and gotten it filthy?

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Speaker 1: There were items in her vehicle that you would expect

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Speaker 1: to be stolen if somebody had taken a joy ride

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Speaker 1: or tried to still, and not only that, in her

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Speaker 1: bedroom there were reportedly a string of pearls on the

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Speaker 1: floor that had been broken, and there was an injury

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Speaker 1: to one of the posts on her bed. Yeah I

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Speaker 1: found that. Oh you were the one that found that.

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Speaker 1: Please describe that for me. Surprisingly, I was down on

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Speaker 1: the floor crawling, and she had the old timmy wooden

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Speaker 1: h floor and they were varnished and stuff. But I

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Speaker 1: was down on the floor crawling. I saw. I saw

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Speaker 1: the bed at the end on the side left was

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Speaker 1: split right into and the piece was laying in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the bed, I mean under the bed, in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the floor, under the bed. Also under

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Speaker 1: there was a big, a whole box full of letters

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Speaker 1: and everything from her ex boy friend Marcus, and it

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Speaker 1: had some dust on it. I'm not sure why gb

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Speaker 1: I didn't collect any of that. You know. Also, a

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Speaker 1: lamp was a skew, A lamp shade was a skew,

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Speaker 1: and she would let me. Let me just say something

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Speaker 1: about that, because it's more than the lamp shade being

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Speaker 1: a skewed. The actual plastic lamp socket, the bulk socket

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Speaker 1: where screwed into, was actually broke and completely bent to

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Speaker 1: the right and broken, and that plastic piece was found.

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Speaker 1: I found it under the bed. You know, it's in

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Speaker 1: me saying that you found all this and police didn't.

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Speaker 1: So let me understand another fine point here. The bedpost

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Speaker 1: that was broken and the piece of it was under

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Speaker 1: the bed. Was it near the lamp the broken lamp, No, No,

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Speaker 1: it was at the foot. Was it on the same side. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So it seems as if the struggle may have started

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Speaker 1: at the the struggle, whether it started that was between

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Speaker 1: the bedpost and the lamp on the same side that

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Speaker 1: she slept on, as if she may have been getting

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Speaker 1: into bed, and then a struggle ensued in the bedroom.

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Speaker 1: That's correct. You know. I went down there and looked

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Speaker 1: all over town, searched everything I could, went through her house,

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Speaker 1: went through her yard. Oh, speaking of her yard, doctor Godwin,

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Speaker 1: what was found in her yard from the concrete front

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Speaker 1: porch as you walked directly out of the front door,

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Speaker 1: laying right on the edge in pine straw and the

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Speaker 1: grass was a flesh color white, a late TeX's glove one.

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Speaker 1: And if you go back and look at the original

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Speaker 1: photographs from the g B I from all that glove

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Speaker 1: and stuff. If you go back and look at it,

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Speaker 1: the glove just wasn't laying on top of the pine stroll.

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Speaker 1: Somebody had pulled back the pine straw. And you know

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Speaker 1: under a new pines stroll on the top is dark

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Speaker 1: brown black type pines straw. Somebody had pulled that back

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Speaker 1: some too, almost to the ground. The glove was laying

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Speaker 1: in a little valley, so so it just didn't fall

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Speaker 1: out and land on the on the pine Stroll. There

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Speaker 1: was a little pull out area where that somebody had

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Speaker 1: taken their fingers and raped it back a little bit,

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Speaker 1: and and that glove was laying in in there, and

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Speaker 1: that they did DNA analysis on that and it came

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Speaker 1: back to a full DNA profile or white male. But

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Speaker 1: the problem is and they never knew who the white

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Speaker 1: male was. No. Over eleven years, they entered it into Kodis,

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Speaker 1: they entered to the Georgia DNA they and never got

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Speaker 1: a hit. Okay, hold on before I get to the

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Speaker 1: very the very most recent, how did you get involved

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Speaker 1: in the case one the dog Holenders that was working

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Speaker 1: in oh five? He and I had worked in the

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Speaker 1: Drew Shoulden case South Dakota, North Dakota and he knew

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Speaker 1: me and everything. So he told Tara's sister Anita about

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Speaker 1: me and UM and she contacted me in UM the

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Speaker 1: first February of oh six, and I didn't take the

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Speaker 1: case because I was busy. She contacted me about three

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Speaker 1: weeks later and I took the case and then I

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Speaker 1: went down in March of o six. So you were

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Speaker 1: contacted then by Tara Grinsteas family. What were you able

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Speaker 1: to uncover and It's amazing to me, and this is

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Speaker 1: no slight against your skills, which are actually renowned, but

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Speaker 1: it's amazing to me that cops didn't find the splintered

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Speaker 1: bed post pis and the broken lamp piece. I mean,

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Speaker 1: to me, that's very significant. Well, there was also she

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Speaker 1: was studying to get into the pH d program, so

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Speaker 1: she had one of those thick g R E books okay,

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Speaker 1: that was laying on the floor under the edge of

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Speaker 1: the bed and had dust on it. That was still there.

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Speaker 1: I'm just soaking all this in. How did they miss

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Speaker 1: it all? Doctor? I don't know that the rug, the

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Speaker 1: rug beside her bed. I pulled it up. Now you know,

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Speaker 1: it had been like four months. But the thing is

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Speaker 1: I pulled a rug up and um in the in

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Speaker 1: the rubber backing of some of it, A lot of

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Speaker 1: it pulled off. They were stuck to that varnished floor,

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Speaker 1: so uh, it had never been pulled up with me

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Speaker 1: is Dr Maurice Godwin, a doctor whose specialty is forensic

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Speaker 1: since psychology. He was actually employed hired by Tara Grinstead's

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Speaker 1: family to get to the truth of what happened to

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Speaker 1: their beautiful girl, A pageant beauty queen, and brainy as well.

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Speaker 1: Beauty queen turned history teachers seeking her pH d, who

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Speaker 1: went to college based on beauty pageant scholarship money. Yes,

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Speaker 1: she dated several people in her local town of Oscilla, Georgia,

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Speaker 1: but all that ended when she disappeared after a school barbecue.

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Speaker 1: What happened to Tara Grinstead? I mean, see Grace. This

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Speaker 1: is crime Stories. And of course I'm so grateful to

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Speaker 1: not only Dr Godwin for being with us, but you

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Speaker 1: being here with us on our program. And I want

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Speaker 1: know where Fat Boy is all the time. I don't

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Speaker 1: have to worry has he jumped over the fence as

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Speaker 1: he running down the street. Has he been running over?

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Speaker 1: Has somebody interested in stealing a mutt taken the little guy?

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Speaker 1: It's total peace of mind. I can see exactly where

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Speaker 1: Link a k C dot com Code Nancy. I want

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Speaker 1: to get back to Dr Maurice Godwin. Dr Godwin, so

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Speaker 1: years pass and I think everybody really looked at Marcus

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Speaker 1: the boyfriend. They had a very volatile relationship he was

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Speaker 1: a cop. He had a certain degree of power in town. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, cops certainly know where to hide a by body.

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Speaker 1: And there's no shortage, you know, within an hour or

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Speaker 1: two hours of Oscilla, there is thousands of acres of

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Speaker 1: swampland waterways, you name it. Everyone kind of suspected him

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Speaker 1: because that's just the way of the world. Statistics show

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Speaker 1: when a woman is murdered or goes missing, it's very

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Speaker 1: likely her partner, her ex husband, boyfriend, our partner, and

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Speaker 1: so he naturally came under suspicion. Boy, was everybody wrong? Then?

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Speaker 1: What happened? Dr Godwin? Well, there was also um the

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Speaker 1: person of the detective she was seeing too, So he

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Speaker 1: was a he was a that's right, the guy from Perry, Georgia,

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Speaker 1: And he was the last one that we know talked

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Speaker 1: to her on the phone that night, that's right, when

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Speaker 1: she got back home. That now, she she just disappeared

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Speaker 1: and the glove was found out there and the g B.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what happened was is she didn't show up

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Speaker 1: Monday morning at work, and so the elderly couple next door,

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Speaker 1: he was a counsel one, so he he had the

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Speaker 1: chief's cell phone number in his cellphone, so he called

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Speaker 1: the chief of as Ella and he came over there,

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Speaker 1: and Joe had a key to the house, so he

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Speaker 1: went in and and didn't see anything, and he came

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Speaker 1: back out, and that's and Joe saw the glove laying

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Speaker 1: on the pine straw at The chief said back then,

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Speaker 1: trying to find a needle in the haystack. We don't

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Speaker 1: even know where the haystack is. Dr Maurice Godwin finally

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Speaker 1: led to a very recent arrest after years passing. I

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Speaker 1: imagine her parents are just about giving up because when

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Speaker 1: I met with her mom, her mom looked so burdened

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Speaker 1: and so, I mean, she's a lovely lady. I guess

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Speaker 1: that's where Tara got her good looks. But she just

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Speaker 1: her demanor was just so like she was carrying the

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Speaker 1: weight of the world on her shoulder. I think he

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Speaker 1: played a role into her her health going Daylyn Oh, yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 1: You know, people say that you can die of a

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Speaker 1: broken heart, and I don't think that's altogether wrong. Now,

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Speaker 1: medical doctors will disagree with you, but frankly, what do

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Speaker 1: they know. Back to the break in the case, I

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Speaker 1: did not see this coming. I did not of course,

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Speaker 1: I assume that you should look at her current students.

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Speaker 1: You know. I just as soon I can tell you

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Speaker 1: what to myself. In oh fifteen, I was on a

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Speaker 1: national show on this and Anita was on there too,

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Speaker 1: and I made a comment about the g B. I said,

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Speaker 1: after ten years, you're gonna have to change the strategy.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna have to do something, you know, until they

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Speaker 1: are arrested. Ryan and had that one press conference that

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Speaker 1: there was never any press conference about Tara at all

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Speaker 1: in eleven years. It's amazing to me. I know, I know,

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Speaker 1: and you never I said, you need to change your strategy.

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Speaker 1: So when I got back home, hold on just a moment,

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Speaker 1: doctor Dr Murray Scott one with me. Listen to that announcement.

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Speaker 1: On Saturday, October twenty two and two thousand five, Tera

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Speaker 1: Grinstead went missing from her residence. The Ocello Police Department

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Speaker 1: responded to her residence immediately. They suspected foul play. Additional

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Speaker 1: law enforcement resources were requested. The Irwin County Sheriff's Office

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Speaker 1: and the gb I came in and began a search

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Speaker 1: at Terra's house. The troubling thing when you're working an

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Speaker 1: investigation into a missing person's case is that there's generally

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Speaker 1: very little evidence. Terra's home was searched extensively for several days,

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Speaker 1: which produced little physical evidence. As with all missing person cases,

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Speaker 1: the investigation started focusing on Terra's close friends and associates.

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Speaker 1: Terra was very well known in this community and well

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Speaker 1: liked in her community, so she had many contacts and

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Speaker 1: friends in various parts of the community. As the hours

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Speaker 1: turned into days, days in two weeks, weeks in two months,

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Speaker 1: and eventually months into years, the search efforts never see east.

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Speaker 1: Through these eleven plus years, the GBI and other law

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Speaker 1: enforcement officers have received hundreds and hundreds of tips. The

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Speaker 1: gb I handles unsolved cases in the same manner we

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Speaker 1: handled our active investigations. All open files are reviewed every

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Speaker 1: couple of months. That way, we do not let we

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Speaker 1: do not have cold cases. Each and every tip that

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Speaker 1: came in was vetted and checked against what we had

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Speaker 1: already done in this investigation. Interviews were conducted, searches were executed,

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Speaker 1: multiple DNA samples were collected. Each lead was thoroughly exhausted. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: all of these leads ended with a dead end until

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Speaker 1: the last couple of days. A few days ago, an

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Speaker 1: individual came forward and reported that they had information into

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Speaker 1: terrorist disappearance. This information made it to my office. In

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Speaker 1: our case, Agent Jason Shadel was sent out to conduct

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Speaker 1: an interview. This interview generated several more interviews, which was

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Speaker 1: followed up by the rest of our office. Here. Through

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Speaker 1: these interviews enough probable cause was discovered so we could

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Speaker 1: swear out and a rest warrant charging Ryan Alexander Duke

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Speaker 1: with the murder of Tera Grinstead. Duke was taken into

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Speaker 1: custody yesterday afternoon and the warrant was issued this morning.

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Speaker 1: So that's the announcement you're talking about, Dr God. But

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Speaker 1: who who saw this coming? I mean, this guy never

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Speaker 1: caused a problem at school. They did not have a relationship.

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Speaker 1: I mean I got into a crime con when it

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Speaker 1: was suggested that she had some kind of illicit sex

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Speaker 1: relationship with this guy one of her students. No, I

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Speaker 1: don't believe that for a minute. If there was all

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Speaker 1: and I do believe sex maybe was the motive behind

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Speaker 1: all this, but it was against her will. I think

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Speaker 1: you're right about that, because if they wanted to steal something,

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Speaker 1: I mean, they could have done it, and I don't

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Speaker 1: I I think you're right about that. And I really

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Speaker 1: am angry about suggestions that she was in the wrong place,

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Speaker 1: that she went quote went somewhere she shouldn't have. That

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Speaker 1: really made me mad. And doctor Godwin, you should have

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Speaker 1: seen the that's right, that's right, thank you, the uproar,

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Speaker 1: the uproar. I should have had you up there on

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Speaker 1: that panel. The uproar that erupted at crime Con when

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Speaker 1: it was suggested that she had a relationship to me

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Speaker 1: that it was being suggested that he had some kind

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Speaker 1: of sex relationship with this boy. I think I think

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00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,399
Speaker 1: what it was wasn't really saying that. I think he

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Speaker 1: was saying because because she was an emotional wreck over

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Speaker 1: Marcus and and that made her vulnerable. Uh and and

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Speaker 1: I don't think that there was anything uh. I think

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Speaker 1: maybe he was saying that maybe she would go she

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Speaker 1: would have taken a risk and gone somewhere, not to

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Speaker 1: have sex, I things, but gone somewhere that put herself

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Speaker 1: at risk. Nancy. Conveniently, I have that clip ready. This

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Speaker 1: is from Crime Con two thousand seventeen with up and

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Speaker 1: vanished podcaster Payne Lindsay getting in a little bit of

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Speaker 1: hot water with the audience. Let's listen. Her question was

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Speaker 1: to paint lindsay, since this was her student, wouldn't she

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Speaker 1: probably opened the door. He knew her and her boyfriend

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Speaker 1: and broken up, and she would be alone. Yeah, she

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00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 1: may have opened the door, But that's not what the

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Speaker 1: gb I said happened. They say that he broke in there,

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Speaker 1: and but he would know that. Yes, she's an easy,

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Speaker 1: beautiful he was exactly. Yeah, she she may have. She

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00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 1: would have known him and may have trusted him enough

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Speaker 1: to let him inside. For sure, it's possible. Something I

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00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 1: heard you say earlier when you were doing your podcast

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Speaker 1: and here is you suggested that maybe she was just

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Speaker 1: in a state of mind to do something out of

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Speaker 1: the ordinary and wild. Are you suggesting she might have

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Speaker 1: gone to that party with Ryan and Bow? I just

401
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 1: think that based on the emails that I have read,

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00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 1: that kind of give insight into terrorist state of mind

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00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 1: in that time. She seemed very vulnerable to me, and

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00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: I always just gut feeling, like you get your good feelings,

405
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 1: thought that that might be related to her disappearance. But

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Speaker 1: maybe she seen them together. Oh yeah, for sure, But

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00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,640
Speaker 1: they didn't or they didn't the principles barbecue, I'm talking

408
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:42,479
Speaker 1: about a separate instance, separate party in town that night.

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Speaker 1: Maybe she didn't go. Maybe she's at the barbecue at

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Speaker 1: eleven o'clock and maybe she doesn't go straight home. Maybe

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Speaker 1: she goes somewhere else. Maybe she goes out here on

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Speaker 1: the orchard where there's a party and there's other people around.

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Speaker 1: What what people friends of Bill and Ryan and they

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00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 1: are how old is how oldt okay? So maybe she

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00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: went to a party out in an orchard with a

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Speaker 1: group of her former students. Is that what you're okay?

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Speaker 1: And so after all these years, not one of those

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Speaker 1: students ever came forward and said, yeah, we saw her

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Speaker 1: that night. They haven't, but they are now the ones

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00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 1: I'm talking to, they are now saying that she was

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Speaker 1: there an upcoming episode? Are they saying she was at

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00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: the party? Not that specifically. But all these people, all

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Speaker 1: the friends of Owen Ryan, most of them knew about

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Speaker 1: this too. That whatever happened, they knew about it and

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Speaker 1: they kept it as secret. So the idea that this

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Speaker 1: secret could not be kept for so long a party, no,

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Speaker 1: but that they knew what happened specifically. That's that's one

428
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 1: of my theories. It's easier to make it, make sense

429
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 1: if she was already out there on the orchard to

430
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: me um versus Ryan taking her out there at her house.

431
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 1: The house perfect, well, the house was almost perfect. I

432
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: mean it doesn't take, but there was no real signs

433
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: of fitting into pain Lindsay's narrative. I'm not saying that's

434
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 1: not true. I'm saying that's all that's a possibility. But

435
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: Ryan Duke's pretty small guy. I mean it's confusing. I

436
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: mean he's yeah, Okay, there's I promise you I am.

437
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: Don't she's not. She's tell it, tell it. Somebody's chewing pain,

438
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 1: Lindsay A nearer end hull. Okay, I mean, let this

439
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: lady stand up in the purple paining issue. Yeah, it

440
00:25:55,359 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 1: three years afterward in her class over anybody else's going on.

441
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: What do you think tena two of them within those

442
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: three years that I have mine. That's the reason why

443
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: I showed her, that's why she Well, let me first

444
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: clear this up real quick. I mean Tara is the

445
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: victim here. I'm not saying anything else. I mean, whatever

446
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: happened to Tera was something else. She's up to that

447
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: and that's no. I literally said that there might be

448
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 1: I think she's try this. It's easy to to make

449
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: it seem like I'm victim shaming or something like that.

450
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 1: I'm not. No. I mean, if I was shaming a victim,

451
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be doing it up and vanished. And I

452
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: said that she might been vulnerable and made a decision

453
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: that was out of the norm for tera and going

454
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: to a place where strangers might be a decision out

455
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: of the norm. I'm not saying she had any sort

456
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: of intent there. She may have just had an open

457
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: invitation and done something out of the norm, and that's

458
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: why this case has been Do you think they had

459
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: a communication. No, I don't think so. I think that,

460
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: if anything, if Ryan may have had some sort of

461
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 1: obsession with her, Tara had nothing to do with Brian.

462
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: I don't think they talked to each other over the years.

463
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: I think that it might have been something that could

464
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: have been developed in his own Else she's saying he

465
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 1: ran into her that day. I think they had last

466
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: three years. He could have seen that night and followed

467
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: at home. I mean it could have been that simple.

468
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:56,120
Speaker 1: But I've got to go okay that the Yeah, the

469
00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: shade was askew. Who said, says Maurice Godwin. Wait, a minute.

470
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: She was just on the phone with the current boyfriend

471
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: from Perry. Now this whole thing with the ex Marcus,

472
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: the volatile relationship was on again, off again then and

473
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: he was a cop. Then enter the detective in Perry,

474
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: a nearby town. She was currently seeing him. I mean nothing, ever,

475
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: and I said, I taught while I was waiting to

476
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: get into law school. Nothing would make me interested in

477
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: a thirteen year old boy except to tell him to

478
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,479
Speaker 1: sit down and shut up. Uh no, no, uh, this woman,

479
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: Terry Grant, said, I'm just telling you a beauty queen

480
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: getting her PhD. Huh, she did not was not interested

481
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: in some history students she had three years before. N Oh,

482
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: I think everything was against him. We all are. And

483
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: you notice one thing about the charges and stuff. If

484
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: they had any evidence that she was taken while she

485
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: was alive from the house, they were to charge kidnapping

486
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: and there's no kidnaping charges. Well, I don't know, I

487
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: I disagree. Well, well, let me let me rephrase. I

488
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: don't know that I disagree with what you said, but

489
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: I think that they know they cannot prove a kidnapping.

490
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: I do not think that, Terra Grinstead. I mean you

491
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: take in the lamp, the broken lamp, the broken bed post,

492
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: the pearls, the car all covered in mud, and the

493
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: seat kicked back. She did not go anywhere willingly. But

494
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: that in itself, in their minds, may not be enough

495
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: to prove kidnapping. So just because they don't indict it

496
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: for kidnapping doesn't mean it ain't. So let me pause

497
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: and thank our partners today one eight hundred dentist. If

498
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499
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500
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501
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516
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517
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518
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524
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541
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543
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544
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Speaker 1: being our partner today. I want to get back to

545
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: how did this guy go under the radar? This student

546
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,719
Speaker 1: she had three or four years before she goes missing.

547
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: Who is this guy? Where did he come from? And

548
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: how did he get busted? Well, let me just say

549
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: this is when I was talking about changing strategies. I

550
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: got back, you know, fifteen said I was telling the

551
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: GB I that, and so I need to change my

552
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,959
Speaker 1: own strategy after ten years. And so that's when I

553
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: saw the post in January o six on web slutes

554
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: from Pain, and I said, well, maybe here's my strategy

555
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: after all this long time. Maybe I can use the

556
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: media like a podcast or something that can help this

557
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: in case. So I agreed to work with him, and

558
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: we started the podcast and stuff, and I think it

559
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: played a role in fleshing out this bow Dukes and

560
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: Ryan Duke that that was my strategy changing strategy and stuff.

561
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: And I believe if we the podcast had never been done,

562
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: I don't believe there would have ever been in arrest

563
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: for a long time. I think he may be right

564
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: about that. Dr Maurice Godwin. So what can you tell

565
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: me about the man arrested into ran Ryan? He went

566
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: into military, but after boot counting stuff, he was he

567
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: was released for some reason. What is his full name? Ryan?

568
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: Alexandra Duke said, don't really refer to killers by their

569
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: excuse me, alleged killers by their first names. I'm not

570
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: really on a first name basis with him or O

571
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 1: J or Jody or a top mom. So all right,

572
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 1: I thought, maybe I lost my mind when he said Ryan.

573
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 1: His name is Ryan Alexander Duke. Okay, back to him.

574
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: Who is this guy? Well, he was a former student.

575
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: He went in the military for some reason. After boot

576
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: COUMP he got out, so he never really went He

577
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: just went to boot camp basically. Yeah, then he had

578
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: he was, you know, employed, unemployed, just hanging around a scilla.

579
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: I think he had a drinking problem. I'm not sure

580
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: about a heavy drug problem, but he had a drinking

581
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: problem and he was living in October o five, we

582
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: had Bow Dukes in Fitzgerald. He comes from more of

583
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 1: an unstable background and everything. Of course, I'm not quite

584
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: sure fullly aware of Bo's background, but Ryan did not

585
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: come from any privilege or any kind of money or

586
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: anything like that. Well that's pretty much all of us.

587
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: Dr God. When So, what do you think happened? And why?

588
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: How did he get busted? I understand someone walked into

589
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: the police department, the local police department. He gave its hip.

590
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: My understanding is is that Bow was dating a girl,

591
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: and they have been dating over a year at this time,

592
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: so I'm not quite sure if she knew before February

593
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: of oh seventeen, anyway, she found out and she mentioned

594
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: it to her mom, and it's my understanding her mom

595
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: went to law enforcements. So he the roommate, says something

596
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: to his girlfriend about Ryan Alexander do about the disappearance

597
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 1: and what happened to Tara. Oh, he didn't say he

598
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: did it. I'm not quite sure if he told her

599
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: or not. He said he knew about it. Anyway, she

600
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: took it and went to her mother and or or

601
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: mentioned it in in passing to her mother, and her

602
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: mother went to law enforcement. Then that's when everything Brother.

603
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: They approached him. They had to get evidence on it,

604
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 1: so they went to him and then he just he

605
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: threw Ryan under the under the bus and then what

606
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: happens we don't know because of the gaggle or we

607
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: don't know if the DNA on the glove matches Ryan

608
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: or anyone, so we don't know that. They must have

609
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: a probable cost based on Bow's you know, interview, and

610
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: then they I think maybe they got some sort of

611
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 1: small confession from Ryan, and then they made the rest

612
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: of Ryan. Where why were they digging in the pecan orchard? Well,

613
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: because that's that was that's owned by Bo's uncle and stuff,

614
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: and and supposedly after the killing or somehow she got

615
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: out either she was carried out there or or somehow

616
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,439
Speaker 1: she was already out there. But that's where I mean,

617
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: you can't. I don't think that her bedroom would be

618
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: so disheveled if she I don't know. I mean, so

619
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: she went home, Okay, yeah, she went. I think she

620
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: to me in in my opinion, I think she was

621
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: attacked into bedroom and they got her from there or

622
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: killed her there and carried and carre of body back

623
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: to Fitzgerald and went to the pecan orchard and she

624
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: stayed supposed there for like a day or whatever, and

625
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: then they burned her up, embarrassed her. Okay, slow down,

626
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: tell me that again. What's your scenario they went after

627
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: she was killed, that she was carried back to Fitzgerald.

628
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: They was she was taken over to the pecan orchard

629
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: and she was burned up, and then she was buried.

630
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 1: What are you basing on the burning up? Well, this

631
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: is our bows um, what he has told people, and

632
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: that's what's out there. Yes, and plus they've only they

633
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: only found small fragments of bones and stuff like that,

634
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: but she was she was definitely burned but why do

635
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: you say that? How do you know Tara Grinstead was burnt? Well?

636
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: Based on what bow? And then we said, okay, now

637
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: let me ask you this. Do you believe Bow was

638
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: with right Alexander Dick when all this occurred? I think

639
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: I think bose to kill her, and I think that

640
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: I think that she was sexually as out it and

641
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,240
Speaker 1: what better way to get rid of a forensic evidence

642
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: than burning the body? Well, then what role does Ryan

643
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: Alexander Duke play in it? I think he's very suggestible,

644
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,919
Speaker 1: and uh, I think that he don't even I don't

645
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: even think that he really even knows. But I think

646
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: Ryan is a follower Bow as a leader, and I

647
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: just think they were the Bow. Well. Isn't it true

648
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: that Bo claims in text messages that Ryan Alexander Duke

649
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: told him he killed Tera in her own bed. That's

650
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: what he said. That's right, with one hit. But I

651
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: mean supposedly Bo said that that Sayaday night there was

652
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: a people in his house and Fitzgerald and they always drinking.

653
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: It passed out except except Ryan. And Ryan took his

654
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 1: truck to a sailing and killed her and brought her back.

655
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: And then suddenly I guess Bo woke up or something,

656
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: but he told him that he had what he'd done,

657
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 1: and he had her in the truck, and so Bobo

658
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: claims that he didn't see her for until Wednesday. He

659
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: didn't see the body. He went out there and she

660
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: was bloated up and stuff. I don't believe that at all.

661
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: I think he. I don't think Ryan picked out Bow's

662
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 1: family land to put her on on his own will.

663
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: I think that Bow was behind, He was behind the

664
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: word that body was dumped at. And you believe that

665
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: Bow sexually assaulted her. I believe, Oh yeah, I believe

666
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: it absolutely. Now. In the text exchanges that have now

667
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: been revealed, Bow has actually described watching Tera Grinstead's body burning.

668
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: Is that true? That's correct? Now? He Bow claims it

669
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: was two full days after the killings that Duke his roommate,

670
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:51,359
Speaker 1: showed him Terra's naked body in the pecan orchard, and

671
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: that it was his idea to burn the body. That

672
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: does not ring true to me. If somebody came and

673
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: said to me, I've got Alan Dick lurking somewhere on

674
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: this program, I am here, Alan. If you were to

675
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: come tell me, hey, I've got a naked body out

676
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 1: my truck bed. You think I'd wait two days ago

677
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: look at it? Uh? In Oh that that's that's just

678
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: down right not true right there. I agree with you,

679
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: Dr god when I agree. Yeah, there's there's a lot

680
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: that that Dr Godwin has been able to uncover along

681
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: with the others working on what sticks out to you.

682
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 1: The thing that sticks out to me, and it's a

683
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: really concern and the reason that that I think Dr

684
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: Godwin might think that Bow is implicated more than more

685
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: than he's admitting to. Is this whole thing about the

686
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: statute of limitations. Could you go into that with us,

687
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: Dr Godwin. See, supposedly they got a call, uh, probably

688
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: a week or two or something afterwards she went missing. Uh,

689
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: they got a call the Herbal County sheriffs Department and supposedly, uh,

690
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: two deputies went to the county line ben Hill county

691
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: line where which is what fish geralds at, and supposed

692
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 1: to they went out there and drove around and searched.

693
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: Of course there's a lot three d acre. They didn't

694
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,240
Speaker 1: find anything, so they just left around the pecun orchard.

695
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: But there's there's no really record of that search. But

696
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: supposedly the whole thing for this is to suggest that

697
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: law enforcements somehow knew about somebody out there at a

698
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: bomb fire and stuff. Confining. We're getting way out in

699
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: the weeds here. You asked about a statute of limitations

700
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: problem if they if they knew about statute in a

701
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: murder case. People, I'm not not murdered, but the about

702
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,919
Speaker 1: when it's about when she was found, If the law

703
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: enforcement knew about it, does the statue of limitation start then?

704
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: Or are you trying to say, I'm sorry, I can't

705
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: make sense of what the two of you were saying.

706
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: You were saying first of all, First of all, there

707
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: is no statute of limitations. Statute of limitation simply means this,

708
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:57,439
Speaker 1: say I run into Walmart and I steal a set

709
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: of towels. Okay, there's a statute of limitations during which

710
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: I can be prosecuted on a theft by taking is

711
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: probably five years. After five years, if they don't get me,

712
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 1: those tiles are mine and I'm home free. That's a

713
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: statue of limitation. But I think the question is when

714
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 1: does that start? If law enforcement didn't know anything about that,

715
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 1: the off, when does that statute limitation start? This Okay,

716
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,240
Speaker 1: first of all, in murder, but this is about boss.

717
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: I understand you, but are you telling me the two

718
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: of you actually telling me you don't think bou had

719
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 1: anything to do with it. They don't have the evidence

720
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: on him, apparently we don't know because of the gag

721
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: that right to a jury and let a jury decide.

722
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 1: But together, he's only charged in Benhill. He's not charged

723
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: in Urban County, not for now with hiding the body, right,

724
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 1: disposing the body. Yeah, what casilla evidence and hiding the

725
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: body and all that is not right now, but that

726
00:42:55,560 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: can be amenda. So anyway, the statute in hiding the

727
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 1: body would likely start at the time of the murder.

728
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: Now on hiding a body. Hiding a body, of course

729
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: is not murder, but if you're charged with accessory to murder,

730
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 1: they don't have that in Georgia, you know what, You're right,

731
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: So he'd have to be charged with co defendant. He'd

732
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 1: have to be charged as a co defendant and murder.

733
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 1: And I think that's what they're working on right now.

734
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,240
Speaker 1: I think that's what's going on the kinds of things,

735
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 1: But frankly, I don't know what they're doing. Well, the

736
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,800
Speaker 1: police deal or the the he apparently had bow bow.

737
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 1: Dukes had some arrangement with the district attorney the prosecutors

738
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: to be a state witness. But is that still holding,

739
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: Dr Godwin, I'll tell you I don't. I don't think so,

740
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 1: because you know he was a rag not too long ago.

741
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: So Dr Godwin, you feel firmly that they have found

742
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: enough of her body to prove a murder charge. You know,

743
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: because often said if you don't have a body, you

744
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: can't prove the case. That's entirely not true. But you

745
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: believe they have found enough bone fragments to prove what

746
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 1: happened to Terra. I believe that they are found enough

747
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: remains to prove that it is Tera, to prove that

748
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:12,839
Speaker 1: it is Tera. And the fact that her bones are

749
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: fragmented shows a lot well that comes from decomposition over

750
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 1: the twelve years and to burning. You want me no

751
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 1: autopsy because there's nothing autopsy. The manner of death you

752
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,919
Speaker 1: have to base it on somebody's word, not man or death,

753
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: I mean mechanism of death like smothering or stranglation. You

754
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 1: have to just base it on Bo's word or or

755
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if Ryan said that or not. In

756
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: a confession. You're just gonna have to base it on that. Well,

757
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: I'd hate to base anything or what these two may say.

758
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: What is Terra's family reaction to this? Well, they're thrilled

759
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: about the rest and they want the monsters to go

760
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 1: to prison. And what do people in Oscilla think of this?

761
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: Do they think they've got the right guy? Yes? I

762
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: think the people said of glad there was a rest,

763
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,919
Speaker 1: and I think that they're glad. They'd be glad when

764
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 1: this whole thing is over. Let me ask you this,

765
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: do you think this should be a death penalty case?

766
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: Because I I'm glad to hear that. I'm really glad

767
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,399
Speaker 1: to hear that. Now, of course they have to move

768
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: the case out of a Soila. That's just given. The

769
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 1: defense is going to ask for a change of venue.

770
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: But when do you believe this will go to trial?

771
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: A year? Mm? Hmm a year? And do you think

772
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,800
Speaker 1: bou Dukes, the roommate, is ultimately going to give States

773
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 1: evidence against Ryan Alexander Dip Yeah, he's got a problem

774
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 1: with defense. He's got a problem because on me, the

775
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: defense attorney, he's got all the files now which were

776
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: thirty feet that they were thirty ft long the GBI files,

777
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: and he says was thirty ft long before they arrest.

778
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 1: So he's got all those files. Now he's gonna try

779
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:49,760
Speaker 1: to get one person a reasonable doubt on that jury

780
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,439
Speaker 1: that Ryan did this himself and try to implicate both.

781
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: With all he's posting, all his screenshots, he can be

782
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 1: easily impede me. Ask you, Dr Godwin, what would have

783
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 1: made Ryan Alexander Duke do such a thing. If you

784
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: don't believe they had a sex relationship, which I do not,

785
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 1: why would he leave a party and go kill Tara

786
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,359
Speaker 1: Grinstead or try to assault her and then kill her.

787
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,399
Speaker 1: I think it's more like both of them were riding

788
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:23,879
Speaker 1: around and possibly saw her coming home. Yeah that's right. Now.

789
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: There might be another motive behind that, but I don't

790
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 1: know it. So your scenario is that they're out riding around,

791
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 1: they see her, or they go by her house. I mean,

792
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: she would have recognized Ryan Alexander Duke if he came

793
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 1: to the door and that's all it took. Yeah, and

794
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: you know there's been mentioned that he used a plastic

795
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: card or something like that to jiggle around and get

796
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: in into the front door. I don't believe that. Why

797
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,439
Speaker 1: Why don't you believe that? Because even I can break

798
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: into a door with my driver's license. But I mean,

799
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 1: first of all, her front porch light was on, and

800
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 1: she had some Halloween declarations up. I mean, and you

801
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: know him drink king and stuff. He's standing there with

802
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: a car trying to if she had a piece of

803
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 1: wood in the molding the brick molding of the door

804
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 1: frame and stuff all the way down on the left

805
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: side that prevents you. So he would have to sit

806
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: there and fiddle with this thing, and late at night

807
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: and stuff. Uh, And do I don't believe that he

808
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: got in some other way or he used a roost

809
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: uh tow and she opened the door. And you think

810
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 1: this struggle went down in her bedroom. He believe I

811
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 1: does too, because they have it in there. Yeah, they do.

812
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 1: It's in the indictment. And you believe that he killed

813
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,839
Speaker 1: her right there in the bed that's hit put hit

814
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 1: her body in his truck, took her body to a

815
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 1: pecan orchard, buried it, burned it and buried it at

816
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: some point they were in her car though at some point,

817
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: at some point possible, But you know, I don't know,

818
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: you know, it's there's a lot of the nuances in

819
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,280
Speaker 1: this case and stuff. But to me, in my opinion,

820
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 1: Bow is the reason why that the body was in

821
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: the pecan orchard that chose that location. Ryan did not

822
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 1: go out there on his own and and and dump

823
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: body out there and then then later come back and

824
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 1: tell Bode later on in a couple of days later, Hey,

825
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,439
Speaker 1: you know, I just put this over your your uncle's land.

826
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: I don't believe that at all. How do you think

827
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: that this is going to play out? Dr Godwin? Well,

828
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: I hope it goes to trial because you know, inner

829
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: and a plea in reading that, you know, that short

830
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: narrative you know, and the judge reading it and stuff,

831
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: and Ryan agree into it and signing off on it

832
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: and stuff. I think it would leave a lot of

833
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: people hanging. So I think people in the family are

834
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: owed case information, and I think that that's having a

835
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 1: trial is the only way to do that. So I

836
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,799
Speaker 1: think hopefully that this go to trial, and I think

837
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: Ryan end up getting life without parole, and I hope

838
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: that Bode gets a lot more, a lot more years

839
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: than a one or two. Well, why not the death penalty?

840
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't know if he's this is

841
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 1: a uh, it's a definity case. We believe it, but

842
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:57,399
Speaker 1: I don't know if that they've charged that with him

843
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,879
Speaker 1: with that, so, yeah, that I don't believe included from

844
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: the aggravated circumstances. Yeah, they probably took it off the

845
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 1: table as a negotiating thing. Well, they haven't negotiated with

846
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: Ryan Alexander Duke, I don't think. Yeah, I don't know

847
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: about it, but they have with bow Duke. Yeah, because basically, uh,

848
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 1: that's the only thing we've they've got except you know,

849
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: I don't know what the DNA on the glove is

850
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 1: and we don't have a body to get sperm or

851
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: touch DNA or with no soft tissue left, you couldn't

852
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: get touched DNA anyway. Yeah, And they left the jeans,

853
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,479
Speaker 1: left the jeans in the in the bedroom. See where

854
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: you have that belt, and I mean, you know you

855
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: can do touch DNA and stuff from the genes of

856
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: where you have to grab areas and stuff and and

857
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 1: so what that stuff was left into The clothing was

858
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: left into bedroom, but the cops got it. No, that's where, No,

859
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 1: that the clothing was. The jeans were left in the bedroom.

860
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 1: As far as I know, Oh, dear Lord in heaven,

861
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: where are the Jenes now? I think a lot of

862
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 1: the stuff I win in storage and everything, you know,

863
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 1: Dr Godwin, I really hate to hear that, and I

864
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: don't want to trash the cops because they're doing the

865
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: best they can. They are like the g B I.

866
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,240
Speaker 1: The g B I should have a been a different

867
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 1: approach during the first five years. Would would have made

868
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: a difference. And the least they should have had some

869
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 1: type of uh A conference called a conference and and

870
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,479
Speaker 1: update every five years or over three years or something

871
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:30,320
Speaker 1: like that. And they never did that. I think, I

872
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 1: tell you what happened. But they had a d n

873
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: A and and d n A, a full DNA and

874
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Makes a lot of investigators lazy. So

875
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: what they do They don't really have anything else, so

876
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: they just wait for a hit. Yet with me is

877
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 1: a renowned forensic psychologist who is hired by Terra Grinstead's

878
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: family to try to find the truth. Dr Maurice Godwin

879
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 1: with us as we wait for this case to go

880
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: to trial, and they murder of a beautiful young woman,

881
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 1: a beauty queen turned pH D candidate, tarant rstead I.

882
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is cribe stories. Good bye friend,