1
00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:07,360
Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio podcast. Okay,

2
00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,000
Speaker 1: So on this Whine about It Thursday Therapy, we have

3
00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:15,320
Speaker 1: Chelsea Harvey Garner. She is a psychotherapist. By the way,

4
00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:20,400
Speaker 1: what is the difference between psychotherapists and therapist? I don't

5
00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,400
Speaker 1: uh one hmmm. I was going to say this so confidently,

6
00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,720
Speaker 1: and I already scratched it, but I think one is

7
00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:30,320
Speaker 1: allowed to prescribe medicated that's a psychologist. No psychiatry, that's

8
00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,640
Speaker 1: a psychiatrist. Okay, then I got nothing. But my demaber

9
00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:39,360
Speaker 1: is in communications and marketing, so let me get Google.

10
00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,200
Speaker 1: She's a writer, a founding director of Big Feels Lab,

11
00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:48,000
Speaker 1: so she specializes in working with trauma survivors, unconventional couples

12
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,800
Speaker 1: and families, and self identified misfits. In both her creative

13
00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,160
Speaker 1: and therapeutic work, she helps clients reclaim an embodied sense

14
00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:59,320
Speaker 1: of dignity and find true belonging with themselves and others. Dynamic, inventive,

15
00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:04,640
Speaker 1: and difficult. Well, no, take that away. She also has

16
00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,839
Speaker 1: a book out It's called a Pity Party Is Still

17
00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,119
Speaker 1: a Party? A Feel Good Guide to Feeling Bad, which

18
00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,800
Speaker 1: is coming out later this July, which I think is

19
00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,680
Speaker 1: I think it's really cool because a pity party is

20
00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:19,640
Speaker 1: still a party. Will give readers insight and tools to

21
00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,640
Speaker 1: reframe how they view difficult emotions while teaching them how

22
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,880
Speaker 1: to embrace these emotions and learn how to accept them

23
00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,160
Speaker 1: in their day to day. Garner wants to help us

24
00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,160
Speaker 1: find the silver lining, but only after we've played in

25
00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,560
Speaker 1: the rain. I cannot agree with that more. Yeah, the

26
00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,560
Speaker 1: toxic positivity life is just not for me. I need

27
00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,560
Speaker 1: like the realness of this, that we all do have

28
00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,760
Speaker 1: the feelings. Pity party still a party for your feelings.

29
00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,680
Speaker 1: Well that, but I think it's also because I remember

30
00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,040
Speaker 1: I wrote about this in the book too, but I

31
00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,440
Speaker 1: said someone had told me, and I said whom in

32
00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,480
Speaker 1: the book. But they're like, you can't be happy and sad,

33
00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,960
Speaker 1: and I'm like, ooh. When I learned that I could.

34
00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,680
Speaker 1: Is when I's free, was able to live. Yes, because

35
00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,960
Speaker 1: that's real life. Yes, Because the amount of times that

36
00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,399
Speaker 1: I've been on Instagram trying to pretend like I was happy, yes,

37
00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,520
Speaker 1: or pretend like I wasn't just crying or something. Yeah,

38
00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,000
Speaker 1: like exhausting and being the human is all the emotions

39
00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,680
Speaker 1: at once. We're not linear creatures. We're made to be

40
00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,000
Speaker 1: all over the place. Now, I think it's dangerous to

41
00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,880
Speaker 1: stay in the pity yeah, which I've stayed in for

42
00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,679
Speaker 1: a minute at times. Yeah, and you've come to get

43
00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:30,520
Speaker 1: me out of mine.

44
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:32,839
Speaker 2: But I think that's yeah.

45
00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:34,840
Speaker 1: So let's get her on because I'm curious, like how

46
00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,840
Speaker 1: long she says, you can stay there? How long are

47
00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:39,480
Speaker 1: we allowed to be in our pity party?

48
00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,000
Speaker 2: But I need rules and guidelines?

49
00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,960
Speaker 1: All right? Well, times up, times up, your pity parties over.

50
00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:57,400
Speaker 2: It's good, Chelsea.

51
00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:05,959
Speaker 1: Chelousy chills, she singing, Hi.

52
00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:12,000
Speaker 2: Hi, you look so cool. You're like fun, You're a vibe.

53
00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,880
Speaker 3: I'm a hipster you guys, but like so like you.

54
00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,360
Speaker 1: There's like I'm already here. I'm here for the vibe.

55
00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,720
Speaker 3: Do it look like a pilot? No, you too.

56
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,720
Speaker 1: You're just so cool and like the tattoos and like

57
00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,480
Speaker 1: the plants in the background. Like I'm like, you look

58
00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,000
Speaker 1: a lot like someone I'm gonna believe anything they say,

59
00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:36,120
Speaker 1: So start talking to me. Tell me everything. That's right.

60
00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:36,840
Speaker 3: I'm Janna.

61
00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:37,800
Speaker 2: This is Kristen.

62
00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,640
Speaker 1: Hi. Hey, guys, Chelsea, can I ask you a really

63
00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:48,400
Speaker 1: stupid question? No, no, that's my second stupid question. First

64
00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,840
Speaker 1: question is what is the difference between a psychotherapist and

65
00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,400
Speaker 1: just like a therapist.

66
00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:56,840
Speaker 3: So the reason am I like in the right place

67
00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,840
Speaker 3: with this mic, You're great the mic and I'm trying

68
00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,240
Speaker 3: to do that. You're perfect, We're good, you're having me fine.

69
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,880
Speaker 3: So the reason I say psychotherapist is because therapists can

70
00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,360
Speaker 3: also mean like physical therapist or anything like and mean

71
00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,560
Speaker 3: different speech therapist, things that don't have to do with

72
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,080
Speaker 3: the mind. So a lot of times now people mean

73
00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,120
Speaker 3: mental health therapist when they hear a therapist. But just

74
00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,520
Speaker 3: to be more specific that it's about psychologists.

75
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:23,280
Speaker 2: Okay, got it.

76
00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,440
Speaker 1: I was just like, because I noticed psych psychiatrist as

77
00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:28,960
Speaker 1: the prescribing right.

78
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:30,000
Speaker 2: Yep, yep.

79
00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:34,719
Speaker 1: Definitely not that our mental lover and our therapist that

80
00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:35,040
Speaker 1: we have.

81
00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:36,600
Speaker 2: I guess she would be a psychotherapist.

82
00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,360
Speaker 1: Amy, Yeah, because sheep can't prescribe because she doesn't prescribe.

83
00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:41,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, got it?

84
00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,400
Speaker 1: All right, So that's my first silly question. My second

85
00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,560
Speaker 1: one is take a question at all? How long can

86
00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:46,880
Speaker 1: you stay in the pity for?

87
00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,240
Speaker 2: Like what's your like? How long we all?

88
00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,839
Speaker 1: How are we allowed to stay in just pity, not

89
00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,120
Speaker 1: the and part, just just the pity.

90
00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,320
Speaker 3: I think you know, of course I can probably give

91
00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,920
Speaker 3: an actual timeline. It would depend on what we're pitying about,

92
00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,360
Speaker 3: what we're partying about, right, Like, if your parents die

93
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,920
Speaker 3: and you're like twelve years old and you go into

94
00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,279
Speaker 3: foster care, like you can probably party for a while.

95
00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:18,000
Speaker 3: I'm gonna say you you've earned that years, you know, Yeah,

96
00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:19,160
Speaker 3: but you know.

97
00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:22,279
Speaker 1: I did years in a party?

98
00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,880
Speaker 2: Which which party? Childhood party?

99
00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:28,440
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's called childhood drama.

100
00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,560
Speaker 2: And we've all I like that.

101
00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:35,920
Speaker 1: We're fling at though. Yeah yeah, okay, So say you're

102
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,960
Speaker 1: just say you're just feeling sad, just yeah, a normal

103
00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:48,120
Speaker 1: human emotion, like you know, you're just feeling defeated or whatever. Yeah,

104
00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,479
Speaker 1: what how long do we I don't need you to say,

105
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,960
Speaker 1: like seven minutes or whatever, but like, are you like okay, seven.

106
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,080
Speaker 3: Minutes doesn't feel good?

107
00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,520
Speaker 1: And then do you are we just like okay? So

108
00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,719
Speaker 1: there's that because the toxic positivity of the world is

109
00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:03,839
Speaker 1: starting to wear me out. If I'm honest, I don't

110
00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,720
Speaker 1: want to be like negative it is because it's like,

111
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,120
Speaker 1: but it's great, have a great day, and I'm like yeah,

112
00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,479
Speaker 1: but okay, sometimes it's not Sarah or Yeather.

113
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,360
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes it's fucking.

114
00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,240
Speaker 1: Hard, Chelsea.

115
00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:19,880
Speaker 3: It's really fucking hard.

116
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard, so hard, all of it.

117
00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:24,440
Speaker 3: It's just hard.

118
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,400
Speaker 1: And sometimes I'm like, I want to be positive, but

119
00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:29,400
Speaker 1: also like I got a big emotion to feel, so

120
00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,240
Speaker 1: let me feel it all the way first, probably in my.

121
00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,040
Speaker 3: Bath Yeah, in the bathtub is a great place. I think.

122
00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,280
Speaker 3: My general perspective is that rejecting something we're feeling is

123
00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:45,160
Speaker 3: inherently a negative position. So if I'm feeling something and

124
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,960
Speaker 3: then Sarah is like, you know what, have a good day, though,

125
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,880
Speaker 3: like the feeling of tension in her body, because she

126
00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,760
Speaker 3: presumably is experiencing that as a negative emotion, I shouldn't

127
00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,160
Speaker 3: feel if I were to take that on and be like, Okay, Sarah,

128
00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,520
Speaker 3: I'm going to take your advice. I'm going to get

129
00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,000
Speaker 3: rid of this sadness. Like that's already to me a

130
00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,960
Speaker 3: negative point of view because I'm rejecting myself, and I'm

131
00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,880
Speaker 3: also saying to life, you know, to be philosophical, like

132
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,600
Speaker 3: this is not okay. What's happening is bad and it

133
00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,200
Speaker 3: shouldn't be like this, which is also to me sort

134
00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:23,800
Speaker 3: of arrogant and positions like ourselves up higher than I

135
00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,160
Speaker 3: think we should be. We don't know why we have

136
00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,600
Speaker 3: these emotions. We know that they're an intrinsic part of

137
00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,640
Speaker 3: being alive. So if I want to actually enjoy my experience,

138
00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:37,320
Speaker 3: I'm better off saying, Okay, maybe this doesn't feel super pleasant,

139
00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,080
Speaker 3: but I'm going to go ahead and assume there's some

140
00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,160
Speaker 3: reason that I'm feeling it, and that it makes sense

141
00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,920
Speaker 3: that I'm feeling it, and I'm not going to reject myself,

142
00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:45,760
Speaker 3: and I'm going to go ahead and just continue on

143
00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,280
Speaker 3: with my day. I think people misconstrue this idea and

144
00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,240
Speaker 3: think that I'm saying you always have to be in

145
00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,440
Speaker 3: your bathtub, like be in your bathtub, but also like

146
00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,160
Speaker 3: keep eating your lunch and just feel the thing. Like

147
00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,680
Speaker 3: it's not actually as dramatic as I think people presume

148
00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,480
Speaker 3: that I'm saying it to be, like, you don't have

149
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:08,840
Speaker 3: to always be crying. You can just privately be feeling something. Yeah.

150
00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:10,960
Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest things that I learned

151
00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,080
Speaker 1: in therapy after my divorce was the power of and

152
00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,280
Speaker 1: like you can be happy and you can be sad,

153
00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,320
Speaker 1: and like I thought I had to be kind of

154
00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,920
Speaker 1: one or the other. And someone had said to me too,

155
00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,200
Speaker 1: like why are you showing the world that you're happy,

156
00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:26,920
Speaker 1: but then you're telling me that you're so sad And

157
00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,040
Speaker 1: it's like well, and so like trying to find like okay,

158
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,240
Speaker 1: what am I and then like realizing my therapist is

159
00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,000
Speaker 1: like you can you can be both, And I was

160
00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,400
Speaker 1: like come again, Like I didn't understand that concept because

161
00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:38,680
Speaker 1: I thought it was like, all right, I'm either going

162
00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,800
Speaker 1: to be so depressed or I'm going to live my

163
00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:44,440
Speaker 1: best life. Oh you know, yeah, But it's like trying

164
00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,439
Speaker 1: to find that and then knowing like, Okay, I can

165
00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,240
Speaker 1: have a really bad day to day and I can

166
00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,319
Speaker 1: find joy in today and like be have moments of

167
00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,000
Speaker 1: happiness too, and like that was like the biggest revelation

168
00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:56,160
Speaker 1: that I had post divorce.

169
00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:57,559
Speaker 2: Personally.

170
00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,720
Speaker 3: It's so important. If I could give all of my

171
00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,760
Speaker 3: clients and readers one message, that would probably be it.

172
00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:06,800
Speaker 3: It's like there's space for all of it. There's space

173
00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,560
Speaker 3: for all of it inside of you and in the world,

174
00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:10,520
Speaker 3: and whether you accept that or not, it's going to

175
00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,160
Speaker 3: be there, so you may as well try to allow

176
00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:14,080
Speaker 3: it and embrace it.

177
00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:31,280
Speaker 1: I was telling one of my divorced friends she's recently

178
00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,320
Speaker 1: divorced and she's just like you know, I just like

179
00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,280
Speaker 1: really kind of like your journey is inspiring. I'm like, yes,

180
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,040
Speaker 1: but let me just tell you, like, it's not like

181
00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,000
Speaker 1: you will still have hard days. Like you know, with

182
00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:46,120
Speaker 1: our new summer schedule, it's primarily it's week on, week off,

183
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,480
Speaker 1: and so I'm not used to not having the kids

184
00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,360
Speaker 1: for not a week like normally it's I'm only without

185
00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,360
Speaker 1: them for seven days of the month, so like this

186
00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,360
Speaker 1: is not usual. So like I will be sad, you know,

187
00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,559
Speaker 1: and like so and that's okay, Like that is expected.

188
00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,880
Speaker 1: That is so it's like just because years of past

189
00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,160
Speaker 1: I'm in a relationship and I'm happy, doesn't mean that

190
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,360
Speaker 1: I won't have moments of like sad days.

191
00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:08,880
Speaker 2: But that's I mean.

192
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,480
Speaker 1: I literally tattooed an and symbol an ampersan on my

193
00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,120
Speaker 1: wrist to be like, okay, I can do both, like

194
00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,000
Speaker 1: because it is the biggest lesson.

195
00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:19,560
Speaker 2: Like you can be.

196
00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,160
Speaker 1: You know, yesterday I was defeated, I'll be honest.

197
00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:25,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, okay.

198
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,320
Speaker 3: Okay, okay.

199
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,320
Speaker 1: So I'm super pregnant over here, just in case you

200
00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,280
Speaker 1: can't see my gangster rapper wardrobe is hiding this baby

201
00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,600
Speaker 1: or like thirty nine weeks. But I went for a

202
00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:38,679
Speaker 1: check up yesterday and there's a lot of contracting and

203
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,559
Speaker 1: pain right physical, which is kind of relieving to me,

204
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,840
Speaker 1: if I can be honest, Like physical pain feels like

205
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,600
Speaker 1: a little vacation sometimes, a little break, yeah, from all

206
00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:52,640
Speaker 1: the thoughts, Yeah, and the trauma pain. So I went

207
00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:54,640
Speaker 1: in and they checked and I'm not dilated, and I

208
00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,440
Speaker 1: was just like, ugh, you know, like you just And

209
00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:02,920
Speaker 1: then I felt this is interesting because with feelings, I

210
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:04,920
Speaker 1: like to hold both at the same time. I've had

211
00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,520
Speaker 1: a lot of loss in the last couple of years.

212
00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,120
Speaker 1: Five deaths in like eleven months knocked me on my butt,

213
00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,520
Speaker 1: but like rebuilding in a really strategic, intentional way. It

214
00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,720
Speaker 1: feels like more fair to myself, which is good.

215
00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

216
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,360
Speaker 1: So I but I instantly went into this. I was like, well,

217
00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:20,960
Speaker 1: you can't be defeated because you have to be grateful

218
00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,679
Speaker 1: because you still have a baby. It's like, but I

219
00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,800
Speaker 1: can feel defeated in that moment, and it is okay

220
00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,680
Speaker 1: to be like frustrated for a second, and I'm gonna

221
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,719
Speaker 1: go sit in my bathtub. I spent a lot of

222
00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:34,720
Speaker 1: time in the bathtub. Now that I'm saying it out loud,

223
00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,640
Speaker 1: but that's like where I calm myself and I like,

224
00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,840
Speaker 1: listen to myself a good place. Yeah, but it is

225
00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,880
Speaker 1: interesting how like the world makes you feel like, well,

226
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:48,000
Speaker 1: you can't be this because you are, you know, even myself,

227
00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:49,720
Speaker 1: I make myself feel that way. I'm like, well, you

228
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,920
Speaker 1: need to be grateful, Kristen. Some people can't have a baby,

229
00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,480
Speaker 1: and I'm such an advocate for all of that that

230
00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:56,520
Speaker 1: I was like, it's okay to just be defeated for

231
00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:02,680
Speaker 1: a second. Yeah, serving scotch yea too, It's okay.

232
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,559
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think of you know, being able to hold

233
00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,320
Speaker 3: it all and honor it all and respect it all

234
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,320
Speaker 3: as of maturity. Honestly, Like when I meet people now

235
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,760
Speaker 3: who sort of hold this view like life should be

236
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,800
Speaker 3: this one way, first of all, to me, it's boring.

237
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,200
Speaker 3: I don't find that kind of perspective like that engaging.

238
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,479
Speaker 3: I mean, I come to this field as an artist previously,

239
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,120
Speaker 3: so like I fit all the cliches about like the brooding,

240
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,840
Speaker 3: like I love to kind of dive into those deep topics.

241
00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,080
Speaker 3: So I just kind of don't find it interesting. But

242
00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:40,439
Speaker 3: I also find it so like rigid and when someone

243
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,920
Speaker 3: thinks that life should be this one way, and yet

244
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,440
Speaker 3: there's been so much proof that it's never that way, Like,

245
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,880
Speaker 3: does anybody actually have proof that anyone is achieving one

246
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,480
Speaker 3: mood of like positive experience? No one is experiencing that.

247
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,920
Speaker 3: So to believe that, despite like mountains of evidence that

248
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,600
Speaker 3: that's not going to happen just strikes me as like young,

249
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,040
Speaker 3: not that that's a bad thing, but when people who

250
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,559
Speaker 3: are like you know, telling me that that are much

251
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,720
Speaker 3: older than me, like life should be really easy if

252
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,520
Speaker 3: you make the right choices, you know. I just like

253
00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,200
Speaker 3: I almost I'm like, wow, how are you holding onto that?

254
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,240
Speaker 3: I'm concerned so dismissive leaving that.

255
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of have it though, And I've always

256
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,560
Speaker 1: said it doesn't have to be that hard, because it

257
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,400
Speaker 1: is going to be hard, but it doesn't have to

258
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,880
Speaker 1: be that hard. That was like, that's my only thing

259
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,240
Speaker 1: to that though, Whereas I'm like when I relate to

260
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,760
Speaker 1: like in relationships, like it doesn't need to be it's

261
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:37,080
Speaker 1: going to be hard, but it doesn't have to be

262
00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,800
Speaker 1: like that hard. When it starts to feel that heavy,

263
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,640
Speaker 1: it's like that heavy and that hard, It's like okay, yeah,

264
00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:44,520
Speaker 1: but I don't know, maybe you disagree with that and

265
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:45,719
Speaker 1: for sure, go ahead.

266
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:50,600
Speaker 3: No, I think, I mean, I think I've I've studied Buddhism.

267
00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:52,480
Speaker 3: I'm not going to claim to be an expert on Buddhism,

268
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,960
Speaker 3: but like you know, for me, the major takeaway is

269
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,040
Speaker 3: there's a difference between pain and suffering. Right, So we're

270
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,280
Speaker 3: going to experience difficult things in life, and that's just

271
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,440
Speaker 3: a reality. There's uncertainty, there's death, et cetera. There's the

272
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,840
Speaker 3: fleeting nature of everything. But then the suffering, I think

273
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:13,360
Speaker 3: would translate for me to things like shame, things like isolation,

274
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,560
Speaker 3: things like you know, believing that it's again believing it's

275
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,320
Speaker 3: wrong to have these experiences. And in Buddhism, if we

276
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,440
Speaker 3: embrace that the hard things are going to happen, it

277
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,480
Speaker 3: doesn't mean I'm a bad person, doesn't mean I'm failing,

278
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,920
Speaker 3: doesn't mean God is punishing me. Then it actually becomes

279
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,720
Speaker 3: a lot easier because I'm not sort of adding insult

280
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,560
Speaker 3: to injury. I'm not cloistering myself away hoping that I

281
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,120
Speaker 3: will get fixed and then be able to be worthy

282
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,560
Speaker 3: of love and care. I can go ahead and assume

283
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,760
Speaker 3: like I'm having a shit day, I feel defeated, and

284
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,760
Speaker 3: I still deserve help, so I don't feel bad about

285
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,360
Speaker 3: calling my friend, right, So that's to me, the difference

286
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,880
Speaker 3: is like it still might happen and be hard, but

287
00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:52,560
Speaker 3: I don't have to make it worse.

288
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,200
Speaker 1: Sure, where do you think people go wrong? Though? I

289
00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:57,920
Speaker 1: mean there's a lot of ways, but like where do

290
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,760
Speaker 1: you think what's the biggest one? You're like, this is

291
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,040
Speaker 1: where you're going to might go wrong with the kitty,

292
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:05,560
Speaker 1: but also having the party too.

293
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,680
Speaker 3: I mean, my answer would be different if I'm like

294
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,000
Speaker 3: talking to one person versus talking about society. Like, to me,

295
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:16,760
Speaker 3: the stuff I say at the beginning of the book

296
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,440
Speaker 3: is really important, which is, you know, if you're isolating,

297
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,240
Speaker 3: if you're not taking any action on behalf of yourself,

298
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,720
Speaker 3: like you're not doing things to try to help yourself

299
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,960
Speaker 3: be well, and if you're starting to believe that you're

300
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,320
Speaker 3: the only one who feels this, right, the shame and

301
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,920
Speaker 3: the isolation are like what I look for in my

302
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,720
Speaker 3: clients and then people in my life and myself when

303
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,200
Speaker 3: I start to feel like, okay, this is dangerous, right,

304
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,880
Speaker 3: Like for people to be isolated in their worst hour,

305
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,160
Speaker 3: to have no support whatsoever, it's not a good thing.

306
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,600
Speaker 3: And pretty much I'm not in favor of that ever.

307
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:48,880
Speaker 3: I mean, if you want to go to a mindfulness

308
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,400
Speaker 3: retreat in the mountains, do it, but do it with

309
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,600
Speaker 3: a group of people. That's would be my perspective, not

310
00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,000
Speaker 3: saying there's never value in being alone, but not at

311
00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,440
Speaker 3: your worst hour personally, So that's a thing I look for.

312
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,800
Speaker 3: But socially, I think that the belief that I feel

313
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,120
Speaker 3: most critical of is the idea that if people were

314
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,920
Speaker 3: doing the right thing, making the right choices, or living

315
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,680
Speaker 3: the right way, they wouldn't be experiencing hardship. That belief,

316
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:19,520
Speaker 3: to me, is so damaging. It's it contributes to so

317
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,640
Speaker 3: much sort of injustice on a deep level, where people believe,

318
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,600
Speaker 3: like if I see somebody in public who is actively suffering,

319
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:28,520
Speaker 3: you know, right like an on house person, a mentally

320
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,480
Speaker 3: unwell person, if I believe on a cellular level that

321
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,200
Speaker 3: they wouldn't be feeling that or experiencing that if they

322
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:39,160
Speaker 3: had made better choices, I'm going to justify not helping

323
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,720
Speaker 3: them and judging them and separating myself from them. And

324
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,960
Speaker 3: I think that belief is really dud dangerous.

325
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,840
Speaker 1: It's also very one sided. That feels like more protective

326
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,920
Speaker 1: of the person feeling it than it is the people

327
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,000
Speaker 1: we should be helping are you, And.

328
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,280
Speaker 3: It protects you for now, but then later you'll be

329
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,680
Speaker 3: hurting and you'll be like, oh so I must be

330
00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:58,920
Speaker 3: doing something wrong, right.

331
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all the at the judgments of those feelings,

332
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:06,320
Speaker 1: it's gross. No, are you a natural born isolator? Like

333
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,760
Speaker 1: I know for myself when the going gets tough, severe

334
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,639
Speaker 1: independence a default, so I'll just wallo up be alone?

335
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:14,680
Speaker 3: Is that?

336
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,760
Speaker 1: Like? What do when you feel the big feelings? Like

337
00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,199
Speaker 1: what's your default? And what, yeah, do you have to

338
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,280
Speaker 1: do to like get out? You know?

339
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,760
Speaker 3: I'm just laughing because I'm thinking about all the people

340
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,040
Speaker 3: who know me that might hear this and how much

341
00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:35,320
Speaker 3: they would love that question because I'm not No, I'm

342
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,040
Speaker 3: an only child, so I don't know interpret that as

343
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:44,120
Speaker 3: you will, you know, like I naturally I'm like help me,

344
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,959
Speaker 3: so no to a fault. I mean there have been

345
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,080
Speaker 3: moments where it took me a while to be like

346
00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,720
Speaker 3: all right, Chelsea, like you can solve this, you know,

347
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,840
Speaker 3: like you don't actually need somebody to come over right now?

348
00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,080
Speaker 3: Would be the side of the spectrum I fall on?

349
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,879
Speaker 1: That's interesting, is it? I would assume it would be

350
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,520
Speaker 1: kind of opposite. Yeah, I sent because I know someone

351
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,920
Speaker 1: that's a single or you know, only child, and they're

352
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,520
Speaker 1: very like they don't ask for help, and like, you know,

353
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,760
Speaker 1: that can happen to the imaginative conversations. We have someone

354
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,480
Speaker 1: with the imaginative conversations, Like we have people that like think, well,

355
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,400
Speaker 1: I told you that the only child is what I've

356
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,880
Speaker 1: known I saw, honey, that's just your husband's Oh he's

357
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:31,160
Speaker 1: a middle I'll take your prayers. What do you say

358
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,399
Speaker 1: to the people that are there that are having a

359
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 1: hard time finding the and like the positive side of things,

360
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:43,240
Speaker 1: the party is over.

361
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,360
Speaker 3: You mean just they want they really want.

362
00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 1: Well, no, like they're they're just stuck in it and

363
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,480
Speaker 1: it's like they're they're having a hard time finding that

364
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,520
Speaker 1: party piece, the like the and piece, the hope piece.

365
00:18:54,920 --> 00:19:00,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, the hope piece, the joy piece. I guess if

366
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,040
Speaker 3: I'm understanding your question correctly. I think some of the

367
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,199
Speaker 3: stuff that's toward the second half of the book, like

368
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,280
Speaker 3: the activities, I think just looking back at human history,

369
00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,840
Speaker 3: things like being in nature, being in a wild place,

370
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 3: even if it is literally like a wild bit of

371
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,119
Speaker 3: brush behind a target. I live in New York, will

372
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 3: take what I can get, you know what I mean,

373
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 3: Just being in a space where it's not just the

374
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,439
Speaker 3: human world is one of the fastest ways for me

375
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,440
Speaker 3: to remember that I'm a part of something bigger and

376
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,640
Speaker 3: that things are kind of operating in a way that's

377
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,960
Speaker 3: mysterious and magical beyond my understanding. It takes me out

378
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,879
Speaker 3: of just this realm where I'm like, I have to

379
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,600
Speaker 3: figure this out. This is all on me. So being

380
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 3: in nature is huge, and I think, you know, not

381
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,000
Speaker 3: a lot of people are as naturally inclined towards this,

382
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,639
Speaker 3: but things like dancing, things like moving your body, things

383
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,639
Speaker 3: like being around other people and listening to music, just

384
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:56,680
Speaker 3: enjoying the basic you know, comforts of having a body

385
00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,280
Speaker 3: and being alive, having a meal, having someone you love

386
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,199
Speaker 3: touch your back, Like, take it really back to the

387
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,680
Speaker 3: animal level is what I advocate for.

388
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,280
Speaker 1: Is that what the group because in your book there's

389
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,680
Speaker 1: solo exercises circus theer's group exercises. Like, is that some

390
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,200
Speaker 1: of the stuff that you do, like tell them yep,

391
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,880
Speaker 1: what to go do? Oh yeah, excited about this book,

392
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be like, hey, honey, it says massage my back.

393
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,359
Speaker 1: I know, well, everything you're saying is how I've been feeling,

394
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:29,679
Speaker 1: which is so interesting because I'm in a very like guys,

395
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,240
Speaker 1: I used to have a brain and then I had

396
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 1: a baby, but I'm in this like very primal kind

397
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,800
Speaker 1: of state, you know, like in this last bit of pregnancy,

398
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 1: I feel like you get more primal and what you

399
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,600
Speaker 1: need is almost primal. Like yes, like the quiet is

400
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 1: what I've needed, and the and the like. I even

401
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:47,679
Speaker 1: said to my husband, I was like, I just like,

402
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 1: I'm not I don't let the wall down easily. And

403
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:52,960
Speaker 1: I said the other day, I was like, I just

404
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 1: want you home to like rub my back, which for

405
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,400
Speaker 1: me to say I need something is interesting. But all

406
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 1: of these things saying, I'm like, oh, yes, like feed

407
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 1: in the grass, you know, a rub of the back,

408
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 1: sunshine on your face, a little wind, anything.

409
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 3: It's basic stuff, you know, and I think we've kind

410
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,479
Speaker 3: of lost track of it in the way that we're living,

411
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 3: and we just need to be reminded this is what

412
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 3: humans have always done to regulate our nervous systems. You know,

413
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,919
Speaker 3: we don't have to do it alone. We always have

414
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 3: these resources available to us, even just the wind, you know,

415
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 3: like you're talking about the primal experience of being pregnant.

416
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 3: I haven't been, but I wrote this book right after

417
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,159
Speaker 3: my grandmother, who was really my mom, died, and I

418
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 3: was amazed by how primal the experience of grief was.

419
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 3: I just wanted to be outside and feel the wind.

420
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 3: And there were moments where like all I wanted was

421
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 3: the wind on my face, and it wouldn't have mattered

422
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 3: if I had, you know, the best therapist in the

423
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,120
Speaker 3: world or tickets to the best concert in the world.

424
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,360
Speaker 3: I just wanted to like sit there and eat some

425
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 3: raspberry with the wind, and that was what felt right,

426
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,360
Speaker 3: and my body was like, this is what you need

427
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 3: right now.

428
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're such a rush society. But that's why I

429
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 1: think up North Michigan has always been my safe, sacred place.

430
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 1: And like that's like when you're saying this, I'm like

431
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: because every time like I'm stressed or I'm anxious or like,

432
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 1: I always close my eyes and like and nothing has

433
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 1: tainted this place, not you know, bringing up like the

434
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: ex is there or any It's like, this place is

435
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,719
Speaker 1: so because it's up North Michigan and it's just there's

436
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 1: nothing but wilderness and yeah, like we I go for

437
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,919
Speaker 1: walks with my grandma to pick raspberries and blueberries and

438
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,360
Speaker 1: like strawberries and it's.

439
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,400
Speaker 2: Like yes, and it's fresh and it's.

440
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 1: Water, oh fresh everything you can drink the faucet and

441
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: it's fine. Even in Michigan there, you know, like it's

442
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 1: and it's like I'm I crave that place, like being

443
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 1: on the lake, being in the water, feeling like all

444
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: of that. And I remember like that was the first

445
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 1: place I went to post divorce because it's just like

446
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 1: it is the most just healing place from me. Just

447
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with I love it.

448
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 2: It is like a.

449
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: Location deep breath. It's weird, like it just takes your

450
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 1: whole full sensory. But that's why I like, I love

451
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 1: New Seidex. I'm like, wow, that is like, yeah, that's

452
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 1: the water away, yes, all of it.

453
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 3: I mean I can get pretty woo woo, So I

454
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 3: try not to because I also, you know, I love

455
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:23,919
Speaker 3: science and evidence and all of the things that they

456
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 3: can go together. But I really believe that the earth,

457
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 3: you know, is alive in ways that we don't comprehend.

458
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 3: And so for me, in those moments where something feels

459
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 3: the pain feels so much bigger than me and I

460
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 3: feel like it's just going to like consume me or

461
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 3: squash me. I need to feel the larger body of

462
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 3: the earth as something I'm connected to, and for me,

463
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 3: that feels like the divine or God, And it almost

464
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 3: instantly kind of reminds me that I'm not doing it alone.

465
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 3: I'm not holding this alone. And I think everybody has

466
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 3: different relationships with the earth. Like some people, it is water,

467
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 3: like you said, For you, it's being near the water,

468
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 3: it sounds like. And I have clients when I work

469
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 3: on like treatment plans and safety plans, we talk about

470
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 3: what is the space for you? And some people just

471
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 3: have to be near water. And I have clients who

472
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 3: when they are in a crisis, I'm like, where can

473
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 3: you get how can you get to water? For me,

474
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 3: it's trees, like a large tree. If I see an

475
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 3: old tree, I will literally tear up like I'm seeing

476
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 3: an old friend, even if I've never like met this tree.

477
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 3: That is so it's embarrassing.

478
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: And there that's great.

479
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 2: I'm gonna when we go to there's Chelsea, she's hugging

480
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 2: a tree.

481
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's hugging a tree in New York.

482
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: But there's probably so much symbolism in it too, because

483
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: you're it's so rooted, it goes down, it's so deep,

484
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 1: like it's connected. It's like the most connected plant we

485
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: can have, all the way down. And then when it

486
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 1: starts to get the roots up in the concrete, you

487
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: got to look through the roots.

488
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: Listen, listen, listen.

489
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 1: We're taking it. We'll go woo woo. You want to

490
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: go woo together? Chapter in the book that's your favorite, Like,

491
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: what's your favorite chapter you have fun writing?

492
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 3: Hmm, you know, probably the finish of the book. The

493
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 3: last chapter is an open letter to my grandmother, And yeah,

494
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 3: it was. It was amazing. I didn't like see it coming.

495
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 3: I wasn't planning to end the book that way. And

496
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 3: I also didn't really write the book in order, so

497
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 3: that was interesting too. I wrote all these different chapters

498
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 3: and kind of rearrange them. And then one of the

499
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 3: final activities is called invisible Army, and it's, you know,

500
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 3: for folks who are not in the immediate company of

501
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 3: someone who has the same hardships as them, how do

502
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 3: you imagine that there's an army with you?

503
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 1: Right?

504
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 3: Whether that's like in a book where characters are experiencing

505
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 3: what you're experiencing or your movement ancestors right like you

506
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 3: if you're a queer person in a community where no

507
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 3: one else is out, like imagining those folks who came

508
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 3: before you and fought that fight. And for me, you know,

509
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 3: my grandmother has always been my greatest ally. And so

510
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 3: writing a letter to someone in your invisible army and

511
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 3: sharing with them like what things have been like and

512
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 3: what you're going through is the activity and I and

513
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 3: it's not that long, but I just found that I

514
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 3: needed to write that and I needed to finish the

515
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 3: book speaking directly to her, because the book was really

516
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 3: a love letter to her and a way of saying

517
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 3: sort of to her, I am okay because you taught

518
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 3: me how to do these things, and I'm going to

519
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 3: be okay without you. And so that that chapter is

520
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 3: hard for me to read even still after reading the

521
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 3: book many times, like I cry every time.

522
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: Well, I cannot wait to get your book, and thank

523
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: you for coming on the show, and everyone please go

524
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: get A pity party is still a party. They can

525
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: pre order it since it doesn't come out to you now,

526
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: all right, pre order it right now. A pity party

527
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: is still a party. A feel Good Guide to feeling bad.

528
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: Pre order it right now. Thank you for coming on

529
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: the show, girlfriend, appreciate what a pleasure.

530
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 2: You're very sweet.

531
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 3: Okay.

532
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 1: The wind Down Book Club for me is getting like

533
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 1: my stack every time we interview an author. I'm ordering

534
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 1: because I'm like in love with these people and I'm like,

535
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: I want to.

536
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 2: Know more of your words.

537
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: I definitely think her book's gonna be good. I'm excited

538
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: to read. I like anything that has like an action plan,

539
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 1: Like I like that there's activities in it.

540
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 2: I don't have activities in my book, but I wish.

541
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: Well, we don't need activities. It's busy enough, funny. There's

542
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: a lot of movement in those pages. By the way,

543
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: I just wrote my thank yous Crystal neuronic girl, I

544
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: think can't make you cry. Yeah, if we've done so

545
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: much life together, I really want to like make a

546
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: recorded promise that at someday in our elder years, we

547
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 1: just sit and we just talk about all bush we've

548
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: been with each other through. Oh well, I think it'd

549
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 1: be even funnier because at that point, because like now,

550
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: I get scared to say things and you do too,

551
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 1: because I'm supporting my children and I'm also still living

552
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 1: some of those things right privately, right, But I can't

553
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 1: wait till I can just be actually unfiltered. We are

554
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: going to be those old ladies. Oh I cannot wait.

555
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 2: At that point, I'd be like, won't care.

556
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: No, you can cancel me all you want, because I've

557
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: already canceled ourselves live from up North, Michigan. Oh what

558
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: a dream, even though I mean we are pretty unfiltered.

559
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 1: But yeah, but I think we're it'd be nice to

560
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: like have to like really just yeah, I think we're

561
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: gonna let it all out someday. It's gonna be awesome.

562
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: I mean, we do share quite a bit, but I

563
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 1: think we all are both very protective of like spouses

564
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: and families and pain like I.

565
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 2: Have, Like how I have to provide for my children?

566
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: Well sure, yeah, but then we don't have to anymore

567
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: when we're seventy and there, got jobs and oh and

568
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: I'm wearing big oversize accessories like I've always wanted to

569
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: every single day for no reason. But Kristen, can we

570
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: I just like I literally can picture our show right now.

571
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: We're going to be gray haired with a big old

572
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: bottle of line sitting on our front porch and we're

573
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: just gonna go to town. Oh that's going to be awesome.

574
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 2: Preston and Alan can just.

575
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: Sit over there and try to understand each other their accents.

576
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 2: Oh, I love you.

577
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: I can't wait for that day. Stay tuned for the time.

578
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: Stamp it thirty years from now.

579
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 2: Let's do it. Can we shake on it?

580
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: Oh?

581
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 3: For sure?

582
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 2: What's it gonna be called? I don't know.

583
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: For a minute, I was like, we wind down up north,

584
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: but we can figure it out later.

585
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 2: It needs to be like, well, it needs to be.

586
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a lot of I'm better than that.

587
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: Let me have this baby and then I'll get back

588
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: to you.

589
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 2: Okay, see you guys next week. Bye bye,