Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and I heart
Speaker 1: radio podcast. Hello everybody, and welcome to the most dramatic
Speaker 1: podcast ever. Chris Harrison, Lauren Ziema coming to you from
Speaker 1: the home office in Austin, Texas. Happy to be home.
Speaker 1: By the way, it's good to be back home. We've
Speaker 1: been traveling a lot. I was in Orange County for
Speaker 1: Easter with my family. A belated happy Easter and pass
Speaker 1: Over to all those who celebrate. That's not the right word.
Speaker 1: We celebrate both. Oh, okay, celebrate the right word. It
Speaker 1: feels yeah, No, you celebrate, Yeah, okay, it's subserve, observe
Speaker 1: and celeb Can we celebrate Passover? We celebrate Easter. Those
Speaker 1: are both celebrations. You do both. Actually, I don't know
Speaker 1: if everybody knows that about you. Yeah, I'm a bit
Speaker 1: of a religious mutt. And so I drove up to
Speaker 1: Dallas with the kids. Laura and I kind of separate,
Speaker 1: divide and conquer a little bit during the holiday sometimes.
Speaker 1: So you were out with your family in LA I
Speaker 1: was up in Dallas with my family. We did Passion.
Speaker 1: By the way. Some people think it's a little weird
Speaker 1: that we do that, but I basically what we do is,
Speaker 1: so I've got family in Orange County, California, Los Angeles, California, Chicago, Illinois,
Speaker 1: and so usually me, my mom, my sister, and brother
Speaker 1: and I try to meet somewhere and celebrate together. But
Speaker 1: then Chris has family in Dallas. His kids are sometimes
Speaker 1: in La sometimes in Dallas, and you know, you might
Speaker 1: have the kids for some holidays, might not. So it
Speaker 1: just sends that we have like a lot of places
Speaker 1: to be, and so we make time for each other's families. Yeah,
Speaker 1: quite a bit. You definitely do with my family, and
Speaker 1: your family comes here. We spend a lot of time together.
Speaker 1: So we make time for each other's families. But when
Speaker 1: it comes to the holidays, sometimes it's just easier to
Speaker 1: divide and conquer. And Elze can go spend time with
Speaker 1: her family, I can do mine, and then we come
Speaker 1: back together and we celebrate ourselves. And I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Some people are like, so, you guys
Speaker 1: aren't together. I don't think we were together last Christmas.
Speaker 1: We were, If you're being honest, how are you okay
Speaker 1: with it? Because I sort of started this. It was
Speaker 1: my idea to be like, why don't I just go
Speaker 1: with my mom's sister and brother. You go with your
Speaker 1: mom and the kids, and we'll just make it easier. Look,
Speaker 1: if I have my brothers, we're together, and I think
Speaker 1: you feel the same way. If all things being equal,
Speaker 1: we want to be together. It's sure. It's just easier
Speaker 1: to facilitate our families and our lives to do it
Speaker 1: this way. And I think that's the growth of us.
Speaker 1: It's the growth of the experience of life. Of it's
Speaker 1: just a day. We can celebrate our day whenever. Well,
Speaker 1: to be honest, I will say there are some things
Speaker 1: I enjoy about it because there is a certain like
Speaker 1: when it's just me with my siblings and my mom.
Speaker 1: You know, that's like your core group. I'm sure you're
Speaker 1: very different if it's just you and your brother hanging
Speaker 1: out versus if I'm with you and your brother, and
Speaker 1: I would love for you to be with my family,
Speaker 1: and you are quite a bit. You've been to pass
Speaker 1: Over with my family, and look, there's thirty of us
Speaker 1: that got together this year. I have a very big
Speaker 1: family on my Jewish side of the family. And then
Speaker 1: we got together for Easter the next day with the
Speaker 1: other side of the family and so it's awesome when
Speaker 1: you're there, and everyone of course asked about Lauren because
Speaker 1: Lauren's more fun than I am. You're very Everybody in
Speaker 1: my family loves you more, they love me more because
Speaker 1: you're usually around. And it's this interesting thing now, even
Speaker 1: with my family, who clearly loves me, but when I
Speaker 1: walk in the room, like, oh, we thought Lauren was
Speaker 1: going to be here, and I'm like, wow, okay, even
Speaker 1: my kids are like that now, you know, oh Gooma.
Speaker 1: Taylor's like, well, I thought Lauren was gonna I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: it's just you got your dad, Okay, Like con well,
Speaker 1: my family loves you and all that, but it's We've
Speaker 1: talked about it before. But it's one thing I love
Speaker 1: about our relationship in that whether I'm going to see
Speaker 1: my friends or my family, like have a girl's trip
Speaker 1: with my mom and sister, or if you're going to
Speaker 1: you know, you're doing a fishing trip upcoming with your brother,
Speaker 1: you and I have never once said to each other, oh,
Speaker 1: you're going on that trip, or well no, why don't
Speaker 1: you stay home? Like we've never ever not just been
Speaker 1: fully supportive and greenlit go on that trip. Yeah, Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, that's awesome do that. And I love that
Speaker 1: so much about our relationship because a it makes me
Speaker 1: miss you and be it makes me like I never
Speaker 1: feel guilty about any of that. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't envy couples. I hear stories from people, like somebody
Speaker 1: told me the other day, Oh, well, my husband was
Speaker 1: going to go on this bachelor party and I told
Speaker 1: him he couldn't go. No. I told him he couldn't
Speaker 1: go because it was going to be like they were
Speaker 1: going to be partying a lot, and I don't really
Speaker 1: like that group of his friends. And I was kind
Speaker 1: of thinking to myself, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong
Speaker 1: on this, but I was sort of thinking, well, he's
Speaker 1: a grown man, and if you don't trust your husband
Speaker 1: to go on a bachelor party, I think that's more
Speaker 1: of an issue with you and your relationship than with it.
Speaker 1: If you feel like you have to create a blockade
Speaker 1: between he and his friends, yeah, you have bigger problems.
Speaker 1: And by the way, he's not going to stop that
Speaker 1: the rest of his life. You're not. That will only
Speaker 1: make him want those things more and try and get
Speaker 1: around you. And then you get into creating false narratives
Speaker 1: aka lying right, You're just hiding from you. I'm just
Speaker 1: going on this trip, or I'm going out and it
Speaker 1: turns out you're in Vegas or whatever. So if you
Speaker 1: have a problem with that, you got bigger problems in
Speaker 1: your relationship. And I think you and I have all
Speaker 1: has been a firm believer. You got to have your
Speaker 1: own lives and you got to support your own lives.
Speaker 1: So we had our own lives and had a wonderful
Speaker 1: passover with my family. I loved it. They didn't love
Speaker 1: it as much because Lauren wasn't there. And then we
Speaker 1: had a beautiful Easter, so I hope you did too.
Speaker 1: It was a wonderful Holy Week for everybody. And so
Speaker 1: we're back though, and we're back in Austin, Texas. And
Speaker 1: there was a story that came out Caitlin Bristow, who
Speaker 1: was on this podcast a while back, and I did
Speaker 1: her podcast quite some time ago, and in that podcast
Speaker 1: where she came to my house in la this is
Speaker 1: back pre lz and we opened up some wine. We
Speaker 1: drank way too much wine. Had a great podcast, and
Speaker 1: in that we talked a lot about it. She got
Speaker 1: very emotional about how her feelings had been hurt when
Speaker 1: you know she was denied dancing with the stars for
Speaker 1: so long, and about you know, the way she became
Speaker 1: the bachelorette. It was her and Britt pitted against each other. Well,
Speaker 1: she dove in a little bit further. She went on
Speaker 1: her fiance Jason Tarti's podcast and she talked a little
Speaker 1: bit or about the finances behind being the Bacherette and
Speaker 1: how those emotions got involved in that. They offered her
Speaker 1: what she said, a Measley forty thousand dollars to be
Speaker 1: the Bacheorette, and she got a lawyer, She got an
Speaker 1: entertainment attorney, which by the way, was brilliant, and an
Speaker 1: executive producer came to her and said, oh, you got
Speaker 1: an entertainment lawyer. You're asking for this amount of money.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I thought this was about love for you,
Speaker 1: which Britlin, which which Bristow recalled. She continued, f off,
Speaker 1: it's about love and money. Okay, they go hand in
Speaker 1: hand for me right now, because they said you're going
Speaker 1: against Britt. And this was where Caitlin was smart. She said,
Speaker 1: I want as much as Chris Souls got as the
Speaker 1: bachelor last season, which was around seventy but it was
Speaker 1: funny how you know her emotions were in the negotiation,
Speaker 1: and I found that to be interesting beyond just the
Speaker 1: Bachelor Bacherette. You know, I don't know this. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you do. You ever did you ever talk
Speaker 1: to people like when they're in that period, when they're
Speaker 1: in the negotiations period, and discuss anything with them? For
Speaker 1: sure you did. Certain I mean most of the bachelors
Speaker 1: and bacherettes I got to know towards the end of
Speaker 1: their season on the previous they would be like the
Speaker 1: finalist on christ Souls season, and then I knew that
Speaker 1: they were coming in to be the Bachelorettes, And so
Speaker 1: it depends, you know. I always told them, if you
Speaker 1: ever want to talk, I'm here. I will help you.
Speaker 1: I don't have a dog in this fight. Yes, I
Speaker 1: want the show to be successful, but I did not
Speaker 1: have the final say on the Bachelor Bacherette. I did
Speaker 1: not negotiate those things. I don't even know really who
Speaker 1: ended up negotiating it. I know it probably goes to
Speaker 1: business affairs at the end of the day, but which producer.
Speaker 1: So I was not you know, I didn't have intimate knowledge.
Speaker 1: I would hear later, Oh Emily Maynard got one hundred
Speaker 1: thousand or Shan Lowe got a hundred whatever it was,
Speaker 1: and so did they. Yeah, they got the Emily Mayner
Speaker 1: got a big chunk of money and she got to
Speaker 1: dictate where we shot the show. We went to Charlotte
Speaker 1: because she had a daughter. She had her daughter, and
Speaker 1: she's like, if we're going to do this, I need
Speaker 1: to be close by and good for her and her daughter. Well,
Speaker 1: that's interesting that Emily and Sean got such bigger chunks
Speaker 1: than also think both Crystals and Caitlyn did. Was that
Speaker 1: reflective of the show, like not being as big on
Speaker 1: That's where the ratings were at the time, and it's
Speaker 1: and it's the worth. Look, take the emotion out of
Speaker 1: this because that's your weakness and a negotiation like this
Speaker 1: is you getting emotional. That's what they hope you will do,
Speaker 1: is get emotional when you're going into any job interview
Speaker 1: and they're going to try and use that leverage against you.
Speaker 1: You know, it's all about all these negotiations are about leverage,
Speaker 1: and it's where the ratings are, where you are, who
Speaker 1: are you? And look take Caitlyn Bristow, for example, relatively
Speaker 1: unknown woman who had just been on The Bachelor from Nashville, Tennessee. Okay,
Speaker 1: there are plenty of those in the world that the
Speaker 1: Bachelor can go to. Now that's their stage. Your stance
Speaker 1: has to be. I resonate with America. They want me
Speaker 1: to be the bachelorette, and that is the push you
Speaker 1: have to decide your value. They're going to try and
Speaker 1: diminish that because their job is just to get to
Speaker 1: you as cheaply as possible. You know what you just said.
Speaker 1: I have to thank you because you have helped me
Speaker 1: so much with my own negotiation skills. And you know
Speaker 1: what this is. It's frustrating. It's one of those things
Speaker 1: I feel people. I see people say things a lot
Speaker 1: on social media. Why didn't I learn this in school,
Speaker 1: Like we're learning the Pythagorean theorem, but where's the education
Speaker 1: on how to buy a home, how to invest, what
Speaker 1: a four oh one K is and I would include
Speaker 1: in that. Negotiating your salary at work. We never are
Speaker 1: educated on that, and you helped me with that so
Speaker 1: much when we started dating. What's more important than life
Speaker 1: a squared plus B squared equal C square or how
Speaker 1: to negotiate a damn contract which you will do fifteen
Speaker 1: to twenty times in your life that will make huge,
Speaker 1: huge impact on your life. I want to drive home
Speaker 1: two things you just said because you had told those
Speaker 1: to me before, and it sound like you maybe advised
Speaker 1: other people. And I've since gone on to tell my
Speaker 1: own friends, well, Chris told me this, and these are
Speaker 1: two important things. One, their job is to get you
Speaker 1: for as little money as possible. When you are negotiating
Speaker 1: your salary, a contract, whatever it is, you have to
Speaker 1: realize and it's hard because your employer will probably play
Speaker 1: on your emotions, just like they did with Caitlin and say, well,
Speaker 1: aren't you in this for love? They are going to
Speaker 1: tell you like, well, you know, don't you care? And
Speaker 1: we think you've been doing a good job, and like,
Speaker 1: you know, this is all we can give you, and
Speaker 1: why aren't you happy with this? But you have to
Speaker 1: remember to try to take your emotion out of it,
Speaker 1: which I know is not easy because our jobs are
Speaker 1: so much of our time in life and it is personal.
Speaker 1: And remember that they are trying to get you for
Speaker 1: as little money as possible. And two, you have to
Speaker 1: remember that they are going to tell you, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a million people who can do your job. I
Speaker 1: was told that in my job negotiations, negotiations so many times, Lauren,
Speaker 1: do you know how many people want this job? And
Speaker 1: what I learned to say was, Okay, we'll go get
Speaker 1: one of them then, because I think there's a reason
Speaker 1: you want me to do this job. So if you
Speaker 1: want me, here's how much I want. And then when
Speaker 1: you've done or said both those things, you also told
Speaker 1: me you got to have a hill you're willing to
Speaker 1: die on. There has to be a number in your
Speaker 1: head where you're like, if they don't hit this, I'm
Speaker 1: walking away, and you have to be willing to walk away.
Speaker 1: You have to back up what you say that is
Speaker 1: that that, to me is the best advice, is that
Speaker 1: you have to pick that hill. And again you have
Speaker 1: to be willing to die in. And this goes for
Speaker 1: me too. I mean, and I was going to say,
Speaker 1: we're all expendable. We are all expendable. Every time I
Speaker 1: went up for a contract negotiation, we could have been
Speaker 1: the number one show in the world, which sometimes we were,
Speaker 1: and they would come to you and say, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: the show struggle and we got to cut back. You know,
Speaker 1: we don't use you as much as we used to.
Speaker 1: We don't need you, you know, they will just just
Speaker 1: bury you. And so, you know, I told Caitlin in
Speaker 1: this podcast we did a couple years ago, Caitlyn, if
Speaker 1: they treat me like that, if I'm a pimple on
Speaker 1: an elephant's ass, what do you think you are? Like?
Speaker 1: How expendable are you? It goes down the line. And
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of people who could host the show. Christy,
Speaker 1: how many people want to host this show? And I
Speaker 1: always said, great, do it. And at one point, and
Speaker 1: we're going to talk to him this week, Sean Lowe.
Speaker 1: He was used as a pawn against me one time,
Speaker 1: and I'll talk to him more in depth about it.
Speaker 1: But it was a political play because I was pushing
Speaker 1: the envelope hosting some other shows, and they wanted to
Speaker 1: put me in my place, and so I said, fine,
Speaker 1: let Sean come in and host these live shows. It
Speaker 1: was a disaster and it didn't go well. Sean, first
Speaker 1: of all, is not a host, and he was doing
Speaker 1: live TV. It's an incredibly hard thing to do do.
Speaker 1: I think that played into what happened to me a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. Absolutely, I think it was partly
Speaker 1: financial and political for sure. You leaving period, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean leaving period. If they thought that I was still
Speaker 1: so important that this show couldn't survive without me, the
Speaker 1: move heaven and earth to make that happen. If they
Speaker 1: think maybe we can do the show for cheaper, better, whatever,
Speaker 1: then they're going to try that. And again, sometimes it
Speaker 1: works out, sometimes it doesn't work out. I think that
Speaker 1: they saw that the show did not do better without you,
Speaker 1: and I'll t it your horn on that, I mean.
Speaker 1: But so that's that's the thing. Though. Some there were
Speaker 1: hills you have to be willing to die on. And
Speaker 1: there was a hill that I was willing to die on,
Speaker 1: and you have to be at peace with that. You
Speaker 1: have to know your value and by the way, don't
Speaker 1: overvalue yourself either. And you have a great quick story
Speaker 1: as we wrap this up. You have a great quick
Speaker 1: story about a chef. Oh yes, well, dinner, we were
Speaker 1: just out. You were just at this dinner and this
Speaker 1: chef is telling me that he just moved. He'd moved
Speaker 1: here to Austin and he's trying to get a restaurant open,
Speaker 1: but he's having such a hard time finding people to
Speaker 1: work right now. And he said it was in part
Speaker 1: because he's getting people who are have no experience telling him, well,
Speaker 1: this is the salary I demand, and he's like, but
Speaker 1: you have no experience, and I can't afford to pay
Speaker 1: you that. And so he has all this incredible experience himself,
Speaker 1: and he's kind of trying to tell people, look, you know,
Speaker 1: part of this job is you are going to learn
Speaker 1: from me. You have no experience, but we're going to
Speaker 1: come in here and get an incredible education as part
Speaker 1: of the job. Now, that is sometimes a tactic employers
Speaker 1: will use against you, and you just have to be aware.
Speaker 1: But in this case, I think he was right, and
Speaker 1: what it made me realize is the reason he's right
Speaker 1: is knowing your worth goes both ways. Yeah, you have
Speaker 1: to know your worth, understand and have a real clarity
Speaker 1: on your talents, your education, your experience, your knowledge, but
Speaker 1: also know what you don't know and be like, you know, Okay,
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. And if you're promising me
Speaker 1: that this is this apprenticeship in a way, then okay,
Speaker 1: I will take a little bit less money because I
Speaker 1: know what I'm going to walk away with here. But
Speaker 1: I get scared, so I speak at universities, and I
Speaker 1: used to speak at a lot and there is you know,
Speaker 1: I don't just want to call it an entitlement that
Speaker 1: has such a negative connotation. But one thing we are
Speaker 1: teaching a lot of kids, especially in colleges, you know
Speaker 1: your worth and go in. Well, you also need to know,
Speaker 1: as Lauren just said, you have very little worth coming
Speaker 1: out of college. I don't care where you went, Harvard, Syracuse, TCU,
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. You don't have worth. Yet. You have to
Speaker 1: be able to go in and grind and earn that worth.
Speaker 1: In the professional world, that means working for very little money.
Speaker 1: Don't worry about the paychecks starting out as much as
Speaker 1: getting that experience and working your butt off. Then you have.
Speaker 1: You're building that worth. You're building that collateral for the
Speaker 1: next negotiation and the next negotiation. But just coming out
Speaker 1: and saying, for example, this chef who was this French
Speaker 1: chef and this girl came in and she's like, I
Speaker 1: demand this, and he's like, I have to teach you
Speaker 1: how to make croissants. You don't know how to do that.
Speaker 1: You don't know the first thing about this. Once you
Speaker 1: learn that, you're going to be unbelievably valuable to me
Speaker 1: and the next person, So you have to earn that worth. Yes,
Speaker 1: And I will also say I always give people the
Speaker 1: advice to switch jobs. I just saw this on Instagram
Speaker 1: the other day. Was like a study done by Forbes
Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen that showed that over time, if people
Speaker 1: stayed at a job, they made less money than people
Speaker 1: who switched. And we had people at entertainment tonight who
Speaker 1: would tell me, like they'd come to me and ask
Speaker 1: my advice and say, I'm frustrated here, and I'd say,
Speaker 1: you know, if you can, I mean, depending on how
Speaker 1: the job market is, but consider switching going to another place,
Speaker 1: because you were always going to get a bigger salary
Speaker 1: bump going to a different employer, and then you can
Speaker 1: always come back, you know, and it's only going to
Speaker 1: make you more valuable. And I do. I just had
Speaker 1: a friend who I advised on this negotiating thing. She'd
Speaker 1: been in her company for like a decade and she
Speaker 1: found out someone knew who came in and her same
Speaker 1: job was making way more than her. She went to them,
Speaker 1: and I talked with her the negotiation and she said,
Speaker 1: this is where I want to be. They wouldn't meet her,
Speaker 1: so you know what that was the hill she died on.
Speaker 1: She walked away. In less than a month, she has
Speaker 1: a new job, she is making the money she wanted
Speaker 1: to make, and it is all because she switched jobs.
Speaker 1: So I've given that advice a lot to producers on
Speaker 1: the show. You're you're growing in the job. First of all,
Speaker 1: you just need to go see how other people work.
Speaker 1: You need to work for others. Even if you have
Speaker 1: a great job, go figure it out, and then you're
Speaker 1: much more valuable when you come back. Was there ever
Speaker 1: a time when you were close to when you were
Speaker 1: in negotiations for a job for a show, whatever show
Speaker 1: it was that you were hosting, where you did almost
Speaker 1: walk away, where it almost fully broke down. Oh I
Speaker 1: have I've walked away? What do you mean? Shows from hosting?
Speaker 1: There were shows that I passed on and just it
Speaker 1: was no but I mean a current show that you
Speaker 1: were in and you were in negotiations and you were like,
Speaker 1: this might be the end for me. Every time I
Speaker 1: negotiated it it was ruthless. I mean, you know it's
Speaker 1: you're you're such a small you know, fly in this
Speaker 1: wheel because you got to figure I'm negotiating with two
Speaker 1: of the biggest studios in the world. You're negotiating with
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers in ABC, ABC is ABC. Disney is one
Speaker 1: of the biggest public companies in the world. That's how
Speaker 1: you're negotiating with how minute How insignificant are you? Now,
Speaker 1: if you are a value add to them, and that's
Speaker 1: what you have to be a value add, then great,
Speaker 1: you have a little leverage, but if you don't, you're
Speaker 1: pretty expendable. And so every negotiation was ruthless. And that's
Speaker 1: why you have agents. Typically they can go and talk
Speaker 1: to business affairs, and business affairs can say horrible things
Speaker 1: about you, I mean horrible things, and your agent will
Speaker 1: take those and they'll say great things about you, and
Speaker 1: they go back and forth and back and forth until
Speaker 1: you're both pretty unhappy with the number. Then you say
Speaker 1: yes and you move on. But you don't have to
Speaker 1: hear those horrible things. You don't negotiate on your own behalf.
Speaker 1: There's a reason for that. Okay, Well, the typical person
Speaker 1: is not in the You know, I have an agent
Speaker 1: or I have a lawyer. And again you said it
Speaker 1: was so smart that Caitlin got an entertainment attorney to
Speaker 1: help her. What would you advise someone who's going into
Speaker 1: their salary negotiation trying to get a new job, whatever
Speaker 1: it is, who is feeling like they're being told, well,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a bunch of other people who want
Speaker 1: this job and you're expendable, and who feels like they
Speaker 1: have no leverage in that situation. Do your homework, have
Speaker 1: some facts to back up your value. Don't just go
Speaker 1: in and say, you know I'm valuable or I think
Speaker 1: I'm worth this. You tell them why give them a
Speaker 1: laundry list of things that you do that nobody can do,
Speaker 1: and what is your value in this company? That is
Speaker 1: the most important thing is have reasons. Why don't just
Speaker 1: go in and just say a number, But also being
Speaker 1: willing to die on that hill. Pick that number, like
Speaker 1: you said, stand by it and be willing to walk.
Speaker 1: And you have to be willing to walk. And that's
Speaker 1: a scary thing because we're all trying to pay a
Speaker 1: mortgage where all we have kids. And that is their
Speaker 1: leverage is your emotion. They know they got you, so
Speaker 1: you at sometimes you've got to just stand your ground.
Speaker 1: So I want to talk briefly about this Tom Sandoval scandival,
Speaker 1: the scandal that will never die. It's like going on,
Speaker 1: It's back to this Vanderpump rules thing, and it's not.
Speaker 1: Look for those of you that are like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: please don't dive back into this, We're not. We're not
Speaker 1: going to get into the meat of it. But Sandoval
Speaker 1: just did an interview, oddly enough, on the Howie Mandel podcast.
Speaker 1: I did not know how He Mandel had a podcast
Speaker 1: until this interview, So I will say good get by
Speaker 1: Howie Mandel. But actually, I think what we want to
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about is not the meat but
Speaker 1: the media of it, because I think the big question
Speaker 1: is for everybody who saw these headlines that Tom Sandoval
Speaker 1: did this interview, it was on Howie Mandel's podcast, like what,
Speaker 1: and I have heard from a couple of friends who
Speaker 1: report on all Things Bravo that apparently the way that
Speaker 1: Howie Mandel got this Tom Sandoval interview is allegedly that
Speaker 1: Tom's band's drummer is married to Howe's podcast producer. And
Speaker 1: by the way, that is a lot of the time
Speaker 1: how interview has happened through like an intimate connection. But
Speaker 1: I've also seen people online saying, wait, why would Bravo
Speaker 1: let him do this. They filmed the reunion, but it
Speaker 1: hasn't aired yet. I think the answer here is Bravo's
Speaker 1: not happy he did this. Um Andy Cohen named Howie
Speaker 1: Mandel his jack hole of the week on Watch What
Speaker 1: Happens Live because Howie Mandel did this interview with Tom
Speaker 1: Sandoval and by the way, seemingly knew like nothing about
Speaker 1: Vanderpump rules. He asked. He was asking who major characters are,
Speaker 1: So luckily there he had a sidekick this this co host,
Speaker 1: I think it was his I think that's his daughter.
Speaker 1: Is that okay? So she's the one that ran the
Speaker 1: interview basically. I mean, I'll be honest, I haven't listened
Speaker 1: to the whole podcast. I've just seen clips of how
Speaker 1: he being like, wait, who's Sheena? And not knowing the show,
Speaker 1: and look, I know, you know how he a little bit.
Speaker 1: I'm saying anything bad about how he is a person,
Speaker 1: but I will say as an interviewer, I was a
Speaker 1: little bit like how he Come on, man, you got
Speaker 1: to do some basic research, even having your daughter there,
Speaker 1: especially if you know you got a really good get
Speaker 1: by getting really good whether you're interested in this story
Speaker 1: or not, the fact that he went outside the Bravo
Speaker 1: family and this reunion hasn't even aired yet, And first
Speaker 1: of all, Bravo has lost control of their people. Everybody's
Speaker 1: out doing their own interviews, kind of creating their own narrative,
Speaker 1: talking on their own podcasts. I mean, by Cohen's got
Speaker 1: to be just like damn it man. But didn't you
Speaker 1: feel like you had those struggles with The Bachelor. I
Speaker 1: know you didn't deal with them, but like your producers
Speaker 1: and everybody that people would go rogue and do things
Speaker 1: outset without The way it works if people at home
Speaker 1: don't know, is when you're a contestant or a cast
Speaker 1: member on these shows, you know you're under contract with
Speaker 1: the studio, with the network. You have to go and
Speaker 1: get approval to do interviews that they have not set
Speaker 1: up for you, like ABC or I mean, it would
Speaker 1: kind of be a combination of in The Bachelor's case,
Speaker 1: ABC Warner Brothers. Your producers would coordinate and set up interviews,
Speaker 1: and then if someone gets offered, Hey, this person wants
Speaker 1: me to come on their podcasts, you'd have to get approval. Yeah,
Speaker 1: most of the time, the network is actually likely saying
Speaker 1: no because they want you to do what they want
Speaker 1: you to do, and that wasn't the case. It was funny.
Speaker 1: We had to learn the hard way. And I don't
Speaker 1: know if we were the first, but we used to
Speaker 1: just wrap up our show and it was over. That
Speaker 1: was it. It's like, okay, you know, Bachelor Bacherette, y'all
Speaker 1: just go go onto the world. And then they would
Speaker 1: do all these magazines and you know, podcasts weren't really
Speaker 1: a thing yet, but we didn't own those stories, and
Speaker 1: Trista and Ryan would go off and you know, and
Speaker 1: everybody else would talk about it. And then finally we're like, wait,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of heat and a lot of meat
Speaker 1: left on this bone. Let's keep picking at it and
Speaker 1: let's own these stories. It took us a while to
Speaker 1: kind of learn let's do a reunion show. Oh, let's
Speaker 1: do an afar after the final rows wrap up, and
Speaker 1: let's continue to have these people back on and own
Speaker 1: these stories. And it became a three hundred and sixty
Speaker 1: five day year arcing story that we own. And that's
Speaker 1: what Bravo's trying to own right now but doing a
Speaker 1: very poor job of keeping it under wraps. Well, tell
Speaker 1: me what you think from them behind the scenes perspective
Speaker 1: of like some people are saying, you know, Tom's job
Speaker 1: is on the line over this because he's so going outside.
Speaker 1: I don't think his job is on the line because
Speaker 1: he's he's made the biggest plotline in the show's history.
Speaker 1: I go back to our last subject about leverage. This
Speaker 1: show will not be on the I mean, this is
Speaker 1: an overstatement. The show's nothing without Tom Sandoval right now.
Speaker 1: He is the story. He is the biggest story, one
Speaker 1: of the biggest media stories going right now. If vanderpump
Speaker 1: Rules loses him right now, what's the show? I know,
Speaker 1: we start next season like, well that was crazy. Hey
Speaker 1: what are you doing now? Right? I mean, like you
Speaker 1: can't not pay this off? And so yeah, Sandoval's got
Speaker 1: them over a barrel right now. And if he's smart,
Speaker 1: he has a lawyer and he's negotiating and his rate
Speaker 1: is doubling right now, right not justifying what he did,
Speaker 1: just say he has leverage, I mean good or bad.
Speaker 1: He has leverage on this story. If they're going to
Speaker 1: use it, that's on them, I mean, I it will
Speaker 1: also be interesting to see if cast member, you know,
Speaker 1: how they handle continuing to film with him, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean that is because their lives are real, you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of what's happening on the show. But two
Speaker 1: ladies involved also have a lot of leverage. Oh yeah, Arianna,
Speaker 1: I mean Raquel has it. She's doing Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how much leverage Raquel has
Speaker 1: in this situation. I don't know, you still need her,
Speaker 1: she sees part of the story. I think it depends
Speaker 1: on the reunion, and it depends on if they stay together,
Speaker 1: Like if they break up, I mean, you're gonna want
Speaker 1: to see Tom and Arianna, and you're gonna want to
Speaker 1: see Ariana date again that I definitely want to see.
Speaker 1: I don't know about Raquel, but we'll see. And they
Speaker 1: probably had to. Okay, Arianna going on Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 1: I didn't know she was on there. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: if that's confirmed. I think it's a report, but don't
Speaker 1: quote me on that. But I do In terms of
Speaker 1: Tom doing the interview, also, I don't think it helped
Speaker 1: him at all. I think that it's like he did
Speaker 1: this interview, the timeline isn't adding up. His big argument
Speaker 1: is that he had tried to break up with Arianna
Speaker 1: and she wouldn't. Allegedly per him, wouldn't accept the breakup.
Speaker 1: First of all, I don't believe that because she's still
Speaker 1: like the whole point at which she found out about
Speaker 1: this affair, she's at his show, watching his show. If
Speaker 1: you're broken up, why is she at your show cheering
Speaker 1: you on and holding your phone for you? But even
Speaker 1: if Tom, you're sitting here saying, oh, I had tried
Speaker 1: to break up with her a few weeks before. You'd
Speaker 1: been having an affair for six or seven months. So
Speaker 1: your big defense is that just two weeks earlier you'd
Speaker 1: tried to break up with her. He's how old is Tom?
Speaker 1: Didn't need forty? Okay, so that's even sadder than I thought.
Speaker 1: I thought he's in his thirty so he's forty. My
Speaker 1: take on this interview and listening to him, he is
Speaker 1: such a bro. He is such a bro, and he's
Speaker 1: not the smartest guy in the world. Listening to him
Speaker 1: discussed this affair, it was like listening to a teenager.
Speaker 1: We were talking, we got closer, and we got clear.
Speaker 1: It was like this magnetic field bringing us together. When
Speaker 1: we kissed, it is painful, it's cringe just I could
Speaker 1: see him with like some sort of energy drink and
Speaker 1: his shirt off and just like talking. It's just like
Speaker 1: he's such a bro, and yeah it's it's He and
Speaker 1: Tom Schwartz are the typical having lived in LA for
Speaker 1: well over a decade, they are the typical Peter Pan
Speaker 1: La man, and the Peter Pan syndrome is the guy
Speaker 1: who has never grown up. That's what they are. I'm
Speaker 1: still like on Sunset Boulevard, but not the good bars,
Speaker 1: playing in a band with my shirt off at forty
Speaker 1: years old with no real career or path. Yes, and
Speaker 1: still like having affairs with twenty something year old girls. Well,
Speaker 1: blessings to the Vanderbump Rules cast. I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about a different reality show headline. This is much more
Speaker 1: emotional and much more serious than the Tom's and Vanderpump Rules.
Speaker 1: The Kardashians. So, Courtney Kardashian has this new wedding special
Speaker 1: on Hulu about her wedding to Travis Barker, the first
Speaker 1: time she's ever gotten married, the oldest Kardashian sister. And
Speaker 1: I read this headline that when she was getting married
Speaker 1: to Travis, her mom, Chris Jenner, gave Courtney her wedding ring.
Speaker 1: Chris gave Courtney, her daughter her own wedding ring from
Speaker 1: her marriage to Courtney's dad, Robert Kardashian, who of course
Speaker 1: is no longer with us, who passed many years ago.
Speaker 1: And Courtney said that when she lost her dad it
Speaker 1: made her feel like she never wanted to get married
Speaker 1: because she thought, well, who's going to walk me down
Speaker 1: the aisle. I'm sure she had her other reasons, but
Speaker 1: that statement really stuck with me. That was really powerful
Speaker 1: to me because you know, Kim has been married three times,
Speaker 1: Chloe's been married, and they're both younger than Courtney. She's
Speaker 1: the oldest, and she had never been married, and for
Speaker 1: her to tie it back to her dad that obviously
Speaker 1: because I lost my own dad, I think that stuck
Speaker 1: with me a little bit. There's certainly something about when
Speaker 1: you lose a parent, you feel like you've lost that
Speaker 1: safety net, right, and you know, the moment of a
Speaker 1: dad walking his daughter down the aisle is such a
Speaker 1: powerful moment in our culture. And I think it speaks
Speaker 1: to her marriage to Travis right that she's like, finally,
Speaker 1: this is the person that I think maybe she feels
Speaker 1: safe with. That it was worth her sort of setting
Speaker 1: aside the sphere about losing her dad now that she's
Speaker 1: found this guy. So I think that like that, the
Speaker 1: power of that spoke to me. I thought it was
Speaker 1: a really interesting sentence. I think of that moment. I
Speaker 1: think of that moment with Taylor. Oh yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: from the time she was a little girl and you
Speaker 1: go to father daughter dances and you think one day,
Speaker 1: you know, and she's stepping on your toes as you're
Speaker 1: dancing and walking around. You think, at one point we're
Speaker 1: going to be doing this at her wedding. Oh that's interesting.
Speaker 1: I never thought about how yeah part I mean, it's
Speaker 1: what brings tears to your eyes when you're doing those things.
Speaker 1: It does. No, I never thought about you walking to
Speaker 1: a Scots she's gonna get married. Oh gosh, yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1: She's a freshman in college. Hook And those moments obviously
Speaker 1: are pivotal, their landmark moments, landmark time stamp. Also in
Speaker 1: your life, it's like, you know those moments of when
Speaker 1: they are because it's also your mortality and where you
Speaker 1: are in your life of you know, I'm picking my
Speaker 1: daughter up in kindergarten. You know, I would always come.
Speaker 1: I would always leave the house, go get flowers, come
Speaker 1: back and pick her up, because I wanted her to
Speaker 1: be picked up for dances and feel like what it
Speaker 1: was like when a gentleman came to the door, gave
Speaker 1: her flowers, open the door for her, took her on
Speaker 1: a date. We went to dinner and then go to
Speaker 1: the dance, And like you're just thinking you were showing
Speaker 1: her how she should be treated. Yeah, and you're thinking,
Speaker 1: someday a gentleman will do this. Hopefully she'll demand this
Speaker 1: type of love respect, and then eventually she'll get married
Speaker 1: and you'll be going to her wedding. So those those
Speaker 1: things flash through your head all the time as a dad,
Speaker 1: and I imagine for you this also struck a chord
Speaker 1: for the opposite reasons. You've lost your dad, and as
Speaker 1: you and I are about to get married, your family
Speaker 1: will be there, Your dad will not. He'll be obviously
Speaker 1: heavily on our minds and on our hearts. But is
Speaker 1: that something that is a daughter you thought about growing up?
Speaker 1: You know, I was never the person who thought that
Speaker 1: much about their wedding. I don't know, And maybe that's
Speaker 1: part of why I've been slow to plan ours. It's
Speaker 1: not because I don't want to marry you. I just
Speaker 1: never had that vision of like this is the dress
Speaker 1: I want and this is the type of party, which
Speaker 1: sort of makes it more prohibitive when planning because it's
Speaker 1: like an open ended you know, I could do anything,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of like almost paralyzing. I wish I
Speaker 1: had a box to plan in my head. But the
Speaker 1: first time I got married, that was definitely a question right.
Speaker 1: I mean, people don't mean it in a way that's hurtful,
Speaker 1: but the you know, the wedding planner before you they
Speaker 1: even know you've lost a parent. They're like, so your
Speaker 1: dad will walking down the aisle and then you have
Speaker 1: to say, well, my dad's actually not here, and then
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, okay, well what do you want to do.
Speaker 1: And people don't mean it in a way of trying
Speaker 1: to hurt you, but it is this sudden like shock
Speaker 1: back to reality where you all your grief starts flooding back.
Speaker 1: The first time I got married, I walked down the
Speaker 1: aisle alone, and that was something I wanted to do
Speaker 1: because one thing I've always felt about the loss of
Speaker 1: my father. We just mentioned if you lose a parent,
Speaker 1: it's losing a safety net. Losing my dad also made
Speaker 1: me really strong and a lot more independent, and that's
Speaker 1: always been a silver lining of that. But so I
Speaker 1: think I wanted to show like I'm good on my own.
Speaker 1: I don't have my dad, but he's with me in
Speaker 1: my heart, and I'm good on my own and I
Speaker 1: don't need somebody else to walk this walk with me
Speaker 1: if it's not him. So that was important to me.
Speaker 1: But I actually feel differently about our wedding. Who do
Speaker 1: you want to walk you down the aisle for our wedding?
Speaker 1: I want my brother to do it, Okay, And now
Speaker 1: I'm crying. Yeah, okay, I've I actually have thought about this,
Speaker 1: and it's not a reflection of me changing. I still
Speaker 1: feel just as independent, but it is a reflection of
Speaker 1: a change in my relationship with him. The first time
Speaker 1: I got married, my brother was eighteen and he was like,
Speaker 1: I mean, he was still such a kid, and he
Speaker 1: was still very much reeling from the loss of my dad.
Speaker 1: He was fourteen when we lost my dad. And now
Speaker 1: it's a little over ten years later, he is such
Speaker 1: a stronger person. He's grown so much. He's so much
Speaker 1: more of a like presence that I lean on in
Speaker 1: my life now than he was. Then, and so I
Speaker 1: just I think it's a reflection of him changing in
Speaker 1: our relationship changing. Yeah, Like we're much closer now, and
Speaker 1: so I want him to feel included and recognized for
Speaker 1: his growth in that way. He is grown into the
Speaker 1: man of the family, yes, and definitely following in his
Speaker 1: dad's footsteps as well, which is ironic in a beautiful way. Yes,
Speaker 1: my dad was a lawyer. He's a lawyer. My mom
Speaker 1: was a lawyer too. He's following both their footsteps, but
Speaker 1: he's a he's grown a lot. There's one other aspect
Speaker 1: of this whole ring thing that you and I have
Speaker 1: never talked about, and this is my side of getting
Speaker 1: a wedding ring. So my wedding ring from my first
Speaker 1: marriage was built by my grandmother and I it was
Speaker 1: my grand It was a replica of my grandfather's ring,
Speaker 1: a lover's not that my grandfather wore, and my grandfather
Speaker 1: was my idol And this is on the Jewish side
Speaker 1: of my family, very important man in my life. And
Speaker 1: I still have that ring just because it means so
Speaker 1: much to me because it's a tie back to my
Speaker 1: grandmother who's gone now as well and grandfather. So coming
Speaker 1: into this marriage, that that that tie is still important
Speaker 1: to me. Now I don't want to wear that ring again.
Speaker 1: I would not do that, but I thought that would
Speaker 1: be weird. Yeah, no, no, that's not the question. But
Speaker 1: I thought, how, you know, could I implement some sort
Speaker 1: of love you know, I'm trying to figure out maybe
Speaker 1: there's a lover lover's not like inscribed on the inside
Speaker 1: of the ring. That's so weird. I was just going
Speaker 1: to suggest that, yeah, something on it that is still
Speaker 1: that tie to my grandfather. But it's like, I don't
Speaker 1: want it at all, only on your behalf to have
Speaker 1: anything to do with Oh, that would be weird my
Speaker 1: last marriage, but that but that one thing was very
Speaker 1: significant to me and I always loved I loved it
Speaker 1: when people asked me about my ring because it was
Speaker 1: so different, and a lot of people saw it on
Speaker 1: the Bachelor and Batch Room were like, what what do
Speaker 1: you What is that ring you're wearing? And I got
Speaker 1: to talk about my grandfather and why I wore that ring,
Speaker 1: and so I got to figure that out. That balance.
Speaker 1: But that's funny that my my initial thing that I
Speaker 1: was about to say was or what if we iding?
Speaker 1: I think that's the safest thing, and it's like, in
Speaker 1: no way do I want to upset you or tie
Speaker 1: it back to something that was not well? You know.
Speaker 1: I think it's always a balance, and it's a case
Speaker 1: by case discussion of how much your past plays into
Speaker 1: your present your relationship right, because actually, oh, I was
Speaker 1: watching the show ninety Day Fiance the other day and
Speaker 1: this woman's getting so upset. I mean, by the way,
Speaker 1: some of the healthiest relationships on TV. Just kidding. If
Speaker 1: you guys watched that show, please DM me about it
Speaker 1: and be happy to talk about it. Maybe we should
Speaker 1: have some of the ninety Day Fiance cast on this podcast.
Speaker 1: But this woman's so mad at her husband because he
Speaker 1: didn't tell her about a termination of a pregnancy from
Speaker 1: a previous relationship he was in. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know that he had to tell you that, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't think that in your current relationship you have
Speaker 1: to tell the person every detail of your past relationships.
Speaker 1: Perhaps in aren't out of respect for those other people.
Speaker 1: Maybe they don't want their details, you know, spread around
Speaker 1: like that. I don't think those are always your stories
Speaker 1: to tell. Does it help? Do they need to know?
Speaker 1: That's a good question ask then don't. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I think when you share it is when it's a
Speaker 1: critical part of you, right, Like just now as you're saying, yes,
Speaker 1: that was your ring in your first marriage. But the
Speaker 1: reason it was your ring in your first marriage is
Speaker 1: because it was a tie to your grandparents, and so
Speaker 1: that tie still matters to you now. And I'm the
Speaker 1: youngest of seven and all the grandchildren, the men have
Speaker 1: those rings, they have some semblance of those rings. So
Speaker 1: it's it ties my cousins together, my grandparents, might you know.
Speaker 1: So it's it's a thing that somehow I want to
Speaker 1: keep those bonds, you know, no pun intended with the ring.
Speaker 1: I want to keep those bonds together. Well, maybe we
Speaker 1: should get tattoos, Okay, I don't think. Part of me
Speaker 1: always like throws that out there just to see what
Speaker 1: you say. I don't think I'll everything not a tattoo guy. Well,
Speaker 1: we got to wrap things up. But now I'm going
Speaker 1: to wonder have you told me everything? Oh? Of course
Speaker 1: you haven't. And by the way, there's things I just
Speaker 1: don't want to know. And I am fine, that's true.
Speaker 1: We don't need all the gory details. We just need
Speaker 1: the necessary I want to believe in my mind that
Speaker 1: I am the biggest best thing that's ever happened to you,
Speaker 1: and I don't need to know otherwise. Damn it, you are.
Speaker 1: And with that, I always enjoy sitting down with you.
Speaker 1: I always enjoy these moments because there are things that
Speaker 1: you and I get into, like pass Over Easter, like
Speaker 1: this that we don't intend to, but this is our life,
Speaker 1: this is this is truly what you and I do.
Speaker 1: We have these bizarre, intimate conversations, but it's what I love,
Speaker 1: and it's what I love bringing here to the podcast.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. We'll talk to you
Speaker 1: next time because we have a lot more to talk about.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most
Speaker 1: Dramatic pod ever and make sure to write us a
Speaker 1: review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you
Speaker 1: next time.