WEBVTT - This is Dramatic: Money, That’s What I Want 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:04.880 This is the most dramatic podcast ever and I heart 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:09.640 radio podcast. Hello everybody, and welcome to the most dramatic 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:12.399 podcast ever. Chris Harrison, Lauren Ziema coming to you from 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:15.600 the home office in Austin, Texas. Happy to be home. 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:17.560 By the way, it's good to be back home. We've 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:19.919 been traveling a lot. I was in Orange County for 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:22.840 Easter with my family. A belated happy Easter and pass 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:25.919 Over to all those who celebrate. That's not the right word. 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:29.159 We celebrate both. Oh, okay, celebrate the right word. It 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:33.720 feels yeah, No, you celebrate, Yeah, okay, it's subserve, observe 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:37.599 and celeb Can we celebrate Passover? We celebrate Easter. Those 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:40.479 are both celebrations. You do both. Actually, I don't know 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:42.159 if everybody knows that about you. Yeah, I'm a bit 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:44.880 of a religious mutt. And so I drove up to 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:47.599 Dallas with the kids. Laura and I kind of separate, 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:50.360 divide and conquer a little bit during the holiday sometimes. 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:52.840 So you were out with your family in LA I 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:55.120 was up in Dallas with my family. We did Passion. 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:57.000 By the way. Some people think it's a little weird 0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:59.880 that we do that, but I basically what we do is, 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:05.280 so I've got family in Orange County, California, Los Angeles, California, Chicago, Illinois, 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:08.440 and so usually me, my mom, my sister, and brother 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:11.160 and I try to meet somewhere and celebrate together. But 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:14.520 then Chris has family in Dallas. His kids are sometimes 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:18.280 in La sometimes in Dallas, and you know, you might 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:20.360 have the kids for some holidays, might not. So it 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:22.000 just sends that we have like a lot of places 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:25.520 to be, and so we make time for each other's families. Yeah, 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.360 quite a bit. You definitely do with my family, and 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:30.880 your family comes here. We spend a lot of time together. 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:33.800 So we make time for each other's families. But when 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:36.280 it comes to the holidays, sometimes it's just easier to 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:39.120 divide and conquer. And Elze can go spend time with 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:40.679 her family, I can do mine, and then we come 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:43.280 back together and we celebrate ourselves. And I'm okay with that. 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:44.840 I don't know. Some people are like, so, you guys 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:47.680 aren't together. I don't think we were together last Christmas. 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:52.560 We were, If you're being honest, how are you okay 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:54.480 with it? Because I sort of started this. It was 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:56.240 my idea to be like, why don't I just go 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:58.400 with my mom's sister and brother. You go with your 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:00.800 mom and the kids, and we'll just make it easier. Look, 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:03.960 if I have my brothers, we're together, and I think 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:06.200 you feel the same way. If all things being equal, 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:10.160 we want to be together. It's sure. It's just easier 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:13.440 to facilitate our families and our lives to do it 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:16.240 this way. And I think that's the growth of us. 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:19.160 It's the growth of the experience of life. Of it's 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:22.160 just a day. We can celebrate our day whenever. Well, 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:25.160 to be honest, I will say there are some things 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:28.880 I enjoy about it because there is a certain like 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.320 when it's just me with my siblings and my mom. 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:34.760 You know, that's like your core group. I'm sure you're 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:36.760 very different if it's just you and your brother hanging 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.240 out versus if I'm with you and your brother, and 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.120 I would love for you to be with my family, 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:42.840 and you are quite a bit. You've been to pass 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:45.240 Over with my family, and look, there's thirty of us 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:48.120 that got together this year. I have a very big 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:51.120 family on my Jewish side of the family. And then 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:53.600 we got together for Easter the next day with the 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.840 other side of the family and so it's awesome when 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.200 you're there, and everyone of course asked about Lauren because 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.639 Lauren's more fun than I am. You're very Everybody in 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.760 my family loves you more, they love me more because 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:10.200 you're usually around. And it's this interesting thing now, even 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:12.760 with my family, who clearly loves me, but when I 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.520 walk in the room, like, oh, we thought Lauren was 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:19.560 going to be here, and I'm like, wow, okay, even 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:21.880 my kids are like that now, you know, oh Gooma. 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:24.000 Taylor's like, well, I thought Lauren was gonna I'm like, no, 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:27.919 it's just you got your dad, Okay, Like con well, 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.280 my family loves you and all that, but it's We've 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:31.919 talked about it before. But it's one thing I love 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:35.160 about our relationship in that whether I'm going to see 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.800 my friends or my family, like have a girl's trip 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:39.600 with my mom and sister, or if you're going to 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:41.800 you know, you're doing a fishing trip upcoming with your brother, 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:45.119 you and I have never once said to each other, oh, 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:47.280 you're going on that trip, or well no, why don't 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:49.880 you stay home? Like we've never ever not just been 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.920 fully supportive and greenlit go on that trip. Yeah, Oh 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:56.520 my gosh, that's awesome do that. And I love that 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.920 so much about our relationship because a it makes me 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.840 miss you and be it makes me like I never 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:04.880 feel guilty about any of that. I don't know. I 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:08.000 don't envy couples. I hear stories from people, like somebody 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:10.640 told me the other day, Oh, well, my husband was 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:12.720 going to go on this bachelor party and I told 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:15.800 him he couldn't go. No. I told him he couldn't 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:17.400 go because it was going to be like they were 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:18.719 going to be partying a lot, and I don't really 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:20.160 like that group of his friends. And I was kind 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:22.200 of thinking to myself, I don't know, maybe I'm wrong 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:24.200 on this, but I was sort of thinking, well, he's 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:26.839 a grown man, and if you don't trust your husband 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:28.600 to go on a bachelor party, I think that's more 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:30.440 of an issue with you and your relationship than with it. 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:32.719 If you feel like you have to create a blockade 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.560 between he and his friends, yeah, you have bigger problems. 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:37.640 And by the way, he's not going to stop that 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:39.599 the rest of his life. You're not. That will only 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:42.120 make him want those things more and try and get 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:46.200 around you. And then you get into creating false narratives 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:51.479 aka lying right, You're just hiding from you. I'm just 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:53.200 going on this trip, or I'm going out and it 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:55.640 turns out you're in Vegas or whatever. So if you 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:57.479 have a problem with that, you got bigger problems in 0:04:57.520 --> 0:04:59.880 your relationship. And I think you and I have all 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:01.520 has been a firm believer. You got to have your 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:03.400 own lives and you got to support your own lives. 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:06.640 So we had our own lives and had a wonderful 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.680 passover with my family. I loved it. They didn't love 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:11.719 it as much because Lauren wasn't there. And then we 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:13.480 had a beautiful Easter, so I hope you did too. 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.719 It was a wonderful Holy Week for everybody. And so 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:19.840 we're back though, and we're back in Austin, Texas. And 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.480 there was a story that came out Caitlin Bristow, who 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.240 was on this podcast a while back, and I did 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.640 her podcast quite some time ago, and in that podcast 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:31.760 where she came to my house in la this is 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:34.880 back pre lz and we opened up some wine. We 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:37.279 drank way too much wine. Had a great podcast, and 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.240 in that we talked a lot about it. She got 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:42.919 very emotional about how her feelings had been hurt when 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:45.400 you know she was denied dancing with the stars for 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.760 so long, and about you know, the way she became 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.800 the bachelorette. It was her and Britt pitted against each other. Well, 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:53.640 she dove in a little bit further. She went on 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:59.719 her fiance Jason Tarti's podcast and she talked a little 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:03.400 bit or about the finances behind being the Bacherette and 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.040 how those emotions got involved in that. They offered her 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:09.039 what she said, a Measley forty thousand dollars to be 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:13.280 the Bacheorette, and she got a lawyer, She got an 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:17.560 entertainment attorney, which by the way, was brilliant, and an 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:20.000 executive producer came to her and said, oh, you got 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:23.559 an entertainment lawyer. You're asking for this amount of money. 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:26.080 I'm sorry, I thought this was about love for you, 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:31.440 which Britlin, which which Bristow recalled. She continued, f off, 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.200 it's about love and money. Okay, they go hand in 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:37.080 hand for me right now, because they said you're going 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.920 against Britt. And this was where Caitlin was smart. She said, 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:44.320 I want as much as Chris Souls got as the 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:48.279 bachelor last season, which was around seventy but it was 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:53.080 funny how you know her emotions were in the negotiation, 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:58.120 and I found that to be interesting beyond just the 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:00.240 Bachelor Bacherette. You know, I don't know this. I don't 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.960 know if you do. You ever did you ever talk 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:07.560 to people like when they're in that period, when they're 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.200 in the negotiations period, and discuss anything with them? For 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.760 sure you did. Certain I mean most of the bachelors 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:15.640 and bacherettes I got to know towards the end of 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:17.720 their season on the previous they would be like the 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:21.480 finalist on christ Souls season, and then I knew that 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.520 they were coming in to be the Bachelorettes, And so 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:26.240 it depends, you know. I always told them, if you 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:28.720 ever want to talk, I'm here. I will help you. 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:30.680 I don't have a dog in this fight. Yes, I 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.320 want the show to be successful, but I did not 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:36.320 have the final say on the Bachelor Bacherette. I did 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:39.400 not negotiate those things. I don't even know really who 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:41.560 ended up negotiating it. I know it probably goes to 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:45.040 business affairs at the end of the day, but which producer. 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:47.840 So I was not you know, I didn't have intimate knowledge. 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:51.239 I would hear later, Oh Emily Maynard got one hundred 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.760 thousand or Shan Lowe got a hundred whatever it was, 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:58.520 and so did they. Yeah, they got the Emily Mayner 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:00.520 got a big chunk of money and she got to 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:02.600 dictate where we shot the show. We went to Charlotte 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:04.440 because she had a daughter. She had her daughter, and 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:05.680 she's like, if we're going to do this, I need 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:08.680 to be close by and good for her and her daughter. Well, 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:12.520 that's interesting that Emily and Sean got such bigger chunks 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:14.960 than also think both Crystals and Caitlyn did. Was that 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:19.120 reflective of the show, like not being as big on 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:21.760 That's where the ratings were at the time, and it's 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:25.840 and it's the worth. Look, take the emotion out of 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:29.000 this because that's your weakness and a negotiation like this 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:32.480 is you getting emotional. That's what they hope you will do, 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:35.000 is get emotional when you're going into any job interview 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.079 and they're going to try and use that leverage against you. 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.760 You know, it's all about all these negotiations are about leverage, 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:44.720 and it's where the ratings are, where you are, who 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:49.000 are you? And look take Caitlyn Bristow, for example, relatively 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:54.040 unknown woman who had just been on The Bachelor from Nashville, Tennessee. Okay, 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:57.240 there are plenty of those in the world that the 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:00.920 Bachelor can go to. Now that's their stage. Your stance 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:04.520 has to be. I resonate with America. They want me 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.120 to be the bachelorette, and that is the push you 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:09.880 have to decide your value. They're going to try and 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:11.839 diminish that because their job is just to get to 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:15.040 you as cheaply as possible. You know what you just said. 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.400 I have to thank you because you have helped me 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:20.920 so much with my own negotiation skills. And you know 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:22.920 what this is. It's frustrating. It's one of those things 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:24.800 I feel people. I see people say things a lot 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:26.960 on social media. Why didn't I learn this in school, 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.040 Like we're learning the Pythagorean theorem, but where's the education 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.960 on how to buy a home, how to invest, what 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:34.800 a four oh one K is and I would include 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:38.360 in that. Negotiating your salary at work. We never are 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:40.640 educated on that, and you helped me with that so 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.160 much when we started dating. What's more important than life 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:46.600 a squared plus B squared equal C square or how 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:51.480 to negotiate a damn contract which you will do fifteen 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:54.160 to twenty times in your life that will make huge, 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.080 huge impact on your life. I want to drive home 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.079 two things you just said because you had told those 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:00.959 to me before, and it sound like you maybe advised 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:03.320 other people. And I've since gone on to tell my 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:04.960 own friends, well, Chris told me this, and these are 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:10.720 two important things. One, their job is to get you 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:14.000 for as little money as possible. When you are negotiating 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:17.120 your salary, a contract, whatever it is, you have to 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.560 realize and it's hard because your employer will probably play 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:22.800 on your emotions, just like they did with Caitlin and say, well, 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:24.760 aren't you in this for love? They are going to 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:26.640 tell you like, well, you know, don't you care? And 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:28.360 we think you've been doing a good job, and like, 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:29.960 you know, this is all we can give you, and 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.440 why aren't you happy with this? But you have to 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:34.800 remember to try to take your emotion out of it, 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:36.880 which I know is not easy because our jobs are 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.200 so much of our time in life and it is personal. 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:41.920 And remember that they are trying to get you for 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:46.280 as little money as possible. And two, you have to 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.320 remember that they are going to tell you, you know, 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:51.560 there's a million people who can do your job. I 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:55.440 was told that in my job negotiations, negotiations so many times, Lauren, 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:57.920 do you know how many people want this job? And 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:01.000 what I learned to say was, Okay, we'll go get 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:03.760 one of them then, because I think there's a reason 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.320 you want me to do this job. So if you 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:09.320 want me, here's how much I want. And then when 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:12.200 you've done or said both those things, you also told 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.360 me you got to have a hill you're willing to 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:16.600 die on. There has to be a number in your 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:18.680 head where you're like, if they don't hit this, I'm 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.240 walking away, and you have to be willing to walk away. 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:22.880 You have to back up what you say that is 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:26.080 that that, to me is the best advice, is that 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:29.360 you have to pick that hill. And again you have 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:30.920 to be willing to die in. And this goes for 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:32.559 me too. I mean, and I was going to say, 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:35.520 we're all expendable. We are all expendable. Every time I 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:37.520 went up for a contract negotiation, we could have been 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:40.400 the number one show in the world, which sometimes we were, 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.439 and they would come to you and say, yeah, you know, 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:46.839 the show struggle and we got to cut back. You know, 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:49.360 we don't use you as much as we used to. 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:51.920 We don't need you, you know, they will just just 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.040 bury you. And so, you know, I told Caitlin in 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:57.600 this podcast we did a couple years ago, Caitlyn, if 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.120 they treat me like that, if I'm a pimple on 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.880 an elephant's ass, what do you think you are? Like? 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.400 How expendable are you? It goes down the line. And 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:07.720 so there's a lot of people who could host the show. Christy, 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:09.600 how many people want to host this show? And I 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.679 always said, great, do it. And at one point, and 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:14.800 we're going to talk to him this week, Sean Lowe. 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.880 He was used as a pawn against me one time, 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.040 and I'll talk to him more in depth about it. 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:23.600 But it was a political play because I was pushing 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.360 the envelope hosting some other shows, and they wanted to 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:28.880 put me in my place, and so I said, fine, 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.600 let Sean come in and host these live shows. It 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:35.120 was a disaster and it didn't go well. Sean, first 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:37.240 of all, is not a host, and he was doing 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:40.880 live TV. It's an incredibly hard thing to do do. 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.320 I think that played into what happened to me a 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.400 couple of years ago. Absolutely, I think it was partly 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:51.120 financial and political for sure. You leaving period, Yeah, I 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:56.640 mean leaving period. If they thought that I was still 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:59.760 so important that this show couldn't survive without me, the 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.199 move heaven and earth to make that happen. If they 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.840 think maybe we can do the show for cheaper, better, whatever, 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:10.040 then they're going to try that. And again, sometimes it 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:15.400 works out, sometimes it doesn't work out. I think that 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:17.800 they saw that the show did not do better without you, 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.320 and I'll t it your horn on that, I mean. 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:22.480 But so that's that's the thing. Though. Some there were 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:24.080 hills you have to be willing to die on. And 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:25.840 there was a hill that I was willing to die on, 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.520 and you have to be at peace with that. You 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.160 have to know your value and by the way, don't 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:35.000 overvalue yourself either. And you have a great quick story 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:36.839 as we wrap this up. You have a great quick 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.520 story about a chef. Oh yes, well, dinner, we were 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:42.240 just out. You were just at this dinner and this 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:47.040 chef is telling me that he just moved. He'd moved 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.800 here to Austin and he's trying to get a restaurant open, 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:52.760 but he's having such a hard time finding people to 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:54.840 work right now. And he said it was in part 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:59.600 because he's getting people who are have no experience telling him, well, 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.800 this is the salary I demand, and he's like, but 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:04.959 you have no experience, and I can't afford to pay 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:08.480 you that. And so he has all this incredible experience himself, 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:10.480 and he's kind of trying to tell people, look, you know, 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:12.320 part of this job is you are going to learn 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.439 from me. You have no experience, but we're going to 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:16.920 come in here and get an incredible education as part 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.200 of the job. Now, that is sometimes a tactic employers 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:22.880 will use against you, and you just have to be aware. 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:24.880 But in this case, I think he was right, and 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:27.440 what it made me realize is the reason he's right 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:31.440 is knowing your worth goes both ways. Yeah, you have 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:36.600 to know your worth, understand and have a real clarity 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.960 on your talents, your education, your experience, your knowledge, but 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:44.640 also know what you don't know and be like, you know, Okay, 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.000 I see what you're saying. And if you're promising me 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.560 that this is this apprenticeship in a way, then okay, 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:51.280 I will take a little bit less money because I 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:52.720 know what I'm going to walk away with here. But 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:56.120 I get scared, so I speak at universities, and I 0:14:56.200 --> 0:15:00.560 used to speak at a lot and there is you know, 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:02.400 I don't just want to call it an entitlement that 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.040 has such a negative connotation. But one thing we are 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.280 teaching a lot of kids, especially in colleges, you know 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:11.520 your worth and go in. Well, you also need to know, 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.880 as Lauren just said, you have very little worth coming 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:19.120 out of college. I don't care where you went, Harvard, Syracuse, TCU, 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.840 doesn't matter. You don't have worth. Yet. You have to 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:25.400 be able to go in and grind and earn that worth. 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.680 In the professional world, that means working for very little money. 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.000 Don't worry about the paychecks starting out as much as 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:36.240 getting that experience and working your butt off. Then you have. 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:39.280 You're building that worth. You're building that collateral for the 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.200 next negotiation and the next negotiation. But just coming out 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:45.160 and saying, for example, this chef who was this French 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.160 chef and this girl came in and she's like, I 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:50.480 demand this, and he's like, I have to teach you 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.000 how to make croissants. You don't know how to do that. 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.520 You don't know the first thing about this. Once you 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:58.960 learn that, you're going to be unbelievably valuable to me 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:03.760 and the next person, So you have to earn that worth. Yes, 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:05.960 And I will also say I always give people the 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:09.960 advice to switch jobs. I just saw this on Instagram 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.440 the other day. Was like a study done by Forbes 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:16.200 in twenty fourteen that showed that over time, if people 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.680 stayed at a job, they made less money than people 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.240 who switched. And we had people at entertainment tonight who 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:22.560 would tell me, like they'd come to me and ask 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:25.120 my advice and say, I'm frustrated here, and I'd say, 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:27.440 you know, if you can, I mean, depending on how 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.440 the job market is, but consider switching going to another place, 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:32.400 because you were always going to get a bigger salary 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:36.760 bump going to a different employer, and then you can 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:38.760 always come back, you know, and it's only going to 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:42.920 make you more valuable. And I do. I just had 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.880 a friend who I advised on this negotiating thing. She'd 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:49.040 been in her company for like a decade and she 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:51.080 found out someone knew who came in and her same 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.600 job was making way more than her. She went to them, 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.600 and I talked with her the negotiation and she said, 0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:59.920 this is where I want to be. They wouldn't meet her, 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:01.720 so you know what that was the hill she died on. 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.760 She walked away. In less than a month, she has 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.240 a new job, she is making the money she wanted 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.160 to make, and it is all because she switched jobs. 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:12.600 So I've given that advice a lot to producers on 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.639 the show. You're you're growing in the job. First of all, 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:17.240 you just need to go see how other people work. 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:19.280 You need to work for others. Even if you have 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:21.400 a great job, go figure it out, and then you're 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:23.520 much more valuable when you come back. Was there ever 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:25.560 a time when you were close to when you were 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:29.600 in negotiations for a job for a show, whatever show 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.000 it was that you were hosting, where you did almost 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:35.000 walk away, where it almost fully broke down. Oh I 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.920 have I've walked away? What do you mean? Shows from hosting? 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:40.520 There were shows that I passed on and just it 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:42.280 was no but I mean a current show that you 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.439 were in and you were in negotiations and you were like, 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:46.719 this might be the end for me. Every time I 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:50.800 negotiated it it was ruthless. I mean, you know it's 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.800 you're you're such a small you know, fly in this 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:58.880 wheel because you got to figure I'm negotiating with two 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.040 of the biggest studios in the world. You're negotiating with 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:06.000 Warner Brothers in ABC, ABC is ABC. Disney is one 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.119 of the biggest public companies in the world. That's how 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:12.919 you're negotiating with how minute How insignificant are you? Now, 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.400 if you are a value add to them, and that's 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.639 what you have to be a value add, then great, 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:23.520 you have a little leverage, but if you don't, you're 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:27.640 pretty expendable. And so every negotiation was ruthless. And that's 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.720 why you have agents. Typically they can go and talk 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:34.520 to business affairs, and business affairs can say horrible things 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.560 about you, I mean horrible things, and your agent will 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:39.919 take those and they'll say great things about you, and 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:42.000 they go back and forth and back and forth until 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:44.440 you're both pretty unhappy with the number. Then you say 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.320 yes and you move on. But you don't have to 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.120 hear those horrible things. You don't negotiate on your own behalf. 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:51.919 There's a reason for that. Okay, Well, the typical person 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:54.119 is not in the You know, I have an agent 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:55.960 or I have a lawyer. And again you said it 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:58.320 was so smart that Caitlin got an entertainment attorney to 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.160 help her. What would you advise someone who's going into 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:05.040 their salary negotiation trying to get a new job, whatever 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:08.480 it is, who is feeling like they're being told, well, 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:10.040