Speaker 1: Hi, guys, I just wanted to jump on here with
Speaker 1: little Bow say hey bo okay um, and we just
Speaker 1: wanted to let everyone know about upcoming live shows. We
Speaker 1: have several coming up, but the first one is Queers Live,
Speaker 1: Bow and tell them Babe. It's inspired from the very
Speaker 1: inspired by, i should say, very first Diva's Live, starting
Speaker 1: all your favorite divits, but we're just putting a little
Speaker 1: queer spin on it. We're gonna have so many great people.
Speaker 1: Larry Owen's called a Skull of Josh Sharp, Aaron Jackson
Speaker 1: as Peter Smith, Peter Smith, and more to be announced.
Speaker 1: More Queer to be announced. Musical directed by the one
Speaker 1: and only Henry Koperski Son Monday, novembery at Joe's Pub,
Speaker 1: The one and only. It's our very first, ever last
Speaker 1: culture is to show at Joe's Pub. We love the
Speaker 1: folks over there. We're gonna be, you know, recording a
Speaker 1: little video promo for it in the coming weeks. You
Speaker 1: might see it and you can get tickets at the
Speaker 1: Joe's Pub website, so please head over and do that,
Speaker 1: and then we have the gag. Of course, it's I
Speaker 1: don't think so honey Live at the Bellhouse on No. Yes,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be a pretty new batch of folks.
Speaker 1: We are really gonna show you some new faces, Darling.
Speaker 1: Our last one was like a Legends ball type gig.
Speaker 1: But this is gonna be such a fun, fresh experience.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be so great. I can't wait for it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta get your tickets to our I Don't Think
Speaker 1: So Honey Live at the Bellhouse on no And if
Speaker 1: you're on the West Coast, Honey, I'm coming to you
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be doing I Don't Think So Honey
Speaker 1: Live at the Region in downtown l A on December five.
Speaker 1: The lineup will be announced shortly as well the Bellhouse lineup.
Speaker 1: But this is gonna be so much fun. I loved
Speaker 1: our show that we did fun. I can't believe I'm
Speaker 1: missing this one. But you know what, it's for a
Speaker 1: good reason, which is your wedding to yourself? Yes, just
Speaker 1: kidding his work, um, so listen, I cannot wait. And
Speaker 1: then selfishly, I want to just plug a little show
Speaker 1: that I do here in New York City at the Duplex.
Speaker 1: It's called have you heard of Christmas? Oh? I love
Speaker 1: this show. Thank you baby. I'm really excited it's gonna
Speaker 1: be on December eleven, December twenty two, so I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do that show three times and I really want you
Speaker 1: guys to come. You can get tickets, um, which are
Speaker 1: on sale right now. Those are the shows, and that's
Speaker 1: the Gauntless Special Best Special Guests and that's musical directed
Speaker 1: by Henrykoperski as well. Yes, oh, I can't wait for
Speaker 1: all of these shows. Um. I will be three out
Speaker 1: of four of them for sure, So please get those
Speaker 1: tickets and check them out. Yes, look man, oh I
Speaker 1: see you? Why why and look over there? How is
Speaker 1: that culture? Yes? Goodness, ding don loss culture. He's just calling, uh, well,
Speaker 1: there's no resta out there, is it? Okay, we define
Speaker 1: it to find what a no rest is for all
Speaker 1: the kids that don't know, because I didn't know until
Speaker 1: two years ago. I never cared for meteorology. I'll do
Speaker 1: a good thing this week, No bitch. Of all the sciences,
Speaker 1: it's although which is interesting. Of all the sciences, it's
Speaker 1: the most performative one. Right. Okay, So you're saying they
Speaker 1: need to be talented. No, but I'm saying, like it's
Speaker 1: it takes a meteorologist have to have star power and
Speaker 1: have a science knowledge which is so interesting. Oh wait,
Speaker 1: I should like write a whole fucking you should write
Speaker 1: a piece on it should be a piece. And can
Speaker 1: I say something? Meteorologists often wrong? I mean it's just
Speaker 1: their job is to predict to like sort of um
Speaker 1: they have. They have a margin of error just inherent
Speaker 1: in the job. And I would say it's the biggest
Speaker 1: margin of error amongst the science. They're able to be wrong.
Speaker 1: And everyone's like, yeah, but that's not that's whether that's
Speaker 1: part for the course. I don't like that very much.
Speaker 1: I think it's lovely. I think it's a beautiful like
Speaker 1: ease of pressure, Like you know, you don't have to
Speaker 1: be exact or impurific, just be loose about it. Can
Speaker 1: I say something? Ol Roker fine wine better with age,
Speaker 1: better with age? And I love that he He was
Speaker 1: the one who really spoke out against Meg and Kelly.
Speaker 1: He was the one who I guess, well, you know,
Speaker 1: they said something on the seven AM hour, and then
Speaker 1: that carried over because later on the president of NBC News,
Speaker 1: Andy Lax, he was like, you're right, it's it's unacceptable.
Speaker 1: And I am thrilled sen Megan Kelly is I can't
Speaker 1: put of all of this. I can't believe the CIA drop.
Speaker 1: That's that's crazy. And what's even the more, the gag
Speaker 1: more that she was in talked with U T A
Speaker 1: and then they said, sorry, we can't take you now.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Kelly is without honey a talent agent.
Speaker 1: And it's actually a rule of culture number four. You
Speaker 1: got to have a talent agent in this talent industry.
Speaker 1: It's all about that. See, this is the thing, like
Speaker 1: I would assume that meteorologists have some sort of talent.
Speaker 1: You know, our roker is w W. We can look
Speaker 1: it up, we can look it up. Has you always
Speaker 1: done some credits and films? And you know we have
Speaker 1: IMDb Pro accounts. I have i MDB Pro account. I
Speaker 1: pay an exorbitant amount of money for it just to
Speaker 1: check my star meter ranking, which is like in the
Speaker 1: fifty thousands, all constant. Yeah, but that's actually very privileged
Speaker 1: thing to say, because you know, I mean at all time, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm always lagging behind you. Not that I keep score.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. We can't do this here. You can't
Speaker 1: do this here, not in front of our guests. We'll
Speaker 1: do We'll do couples therapy. We'll go on Naomi in
Speaker 1: Andy's podcast, I feel I still am considering the couples
Speaker 1: therapy situation for us. Well, no, I shouldn't say that
Speaker 1: I don't think we need it. No, we we don't
Speaker 1: need it yet, but you should go into regular I
Speaker 1: need regular therapy. And it's the sick oh thing that
Speaker 1: I haven't gotten it yet. And I was thinking on
Speaker 1: the train today because I was a little sad today,
Speaker 1: to be honest. Maybe it was the weather. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: just the weather I can't stand the right maybe okay, um,
Speaker 1: but I was feeling a little sad today and I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, the therapy thing needs to happen for everybody.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not just specific to you. It just
Speaker 1: everyone could benefit from it. And I'm entering an exciting
Speaker 1: new chapter in my therapy journey and that means that
Speaker 1: what is it? Can you share? Oh? Yeah, sure? Um
Speaker 1: it's I was like talking to my therapist about this,
Speaker 1: like just like a hook up I had recently, and
Speaker 1: it was like yeah, but I felt some sort of
Speaker 1: shame about it afterwards, and she was like okay, like
Speaker 1: and she was like, do you feel comfortable talking about
Speaker 1: this here? And I was like absolutely, and then we're
Speaker 1: and like two minutes later, like I bring up the
Speaker 1: and this is this is super morbid and sad, but
Speaker 1: I don't mean for it to be. But then but
Speaker 1: then we bring up the conversion therapy thing, and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh yeah, like I, at a very young
Speaker 1: age had an adult link shame to sexuality, sexuality and
Speaker 1: like or just sex in general. Like the exercise was
Speaker 1: like he this, this, this there. This conversion therapist was
Speaker 1: like when I was seventeen, was like, okay, let's walk
Speaker 1: through every instance you've had a male attraction in the
Speaker 1: last you know, years or so, and and then like
Speaker 1: his whole the way, the thing that he projected onto
Speaker 1: everything was there is shame associated to each and every
Speaker 1: one of these things. So he literally imprinted that onto
Speaker 1: me as I was like developing sexually, and I was
Speaker 1: like and so and then and then I didn't realize
Speaker 1: that until I didn't realize that link until there, until
Speaker 1: current therapist was like, wait, like this it is, this
Speaker 1: is something that we have to work through. And I
Speaker 1: was like, absolutely, let's do it. And I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: So it's gonna be great. I need to have things
Speaker 1: like that it's perfect you. Everyone must so I don't
Speaker 1: think we should have the same therapist and we don't
Speaker 1: know absolutely she knows a lot about you, I'm sure. Well,
Speaker 1: and I'll talk about that in my therapy. Okay, oh
Speaker 1: my god, speaking of therapists, Speaking of therapists, I think
Speaker 1: we have like a true comedy therapy. Comedy therapy. She is,
Speaker 1: I mean, she is a true preeminent mind in the
Speaker 1: comedy world. To say something, please, I've actually been a
Speaker 1: fan of this person. I've realized for eleven years. Here's what,
Speaker 1: here's why. Because Knocked Up. Knocked Up, you had a
Speaker 1: scene with Katherine Heigel where you played like her wardrobe
Speaker 1: girl and she's like, I forget what it was. Either
Speaker 1: she's not fitting into the outfit like she used to,
Speaker 1: or she's hungry or something or both. She's frustrated and
Speaker 1: like this man that was like trying to like talk
Speaker 1: to her. It's like away and it's just you. It's
Speaker 1: just Tammy and Catherine. And Tammy goes, you know, your baby,
Speaker 1: they want you to gain a whole messive weight, and
Speaker 1: Kathyn Heigel just goes, are you fucking kidding me? I
Speaker 1: just remember like that exchange like I was like laughing
Speaker 1: so hard to me and all my high school friends
Speaker 1: were laughing so hard. And then like literally the scene
Speaker 1: ends with like being like, I'm sorry, that was really inappropriate,
Speaker 1: and she was like it's okay, it's okay, and it
Speaker 1: was just so good of those But that's when I
Speaker 1: realized I first saw you. It's one of those scene
Speaker 1: Steelers that you're like, who is that? And since then,
Speaker 1: You've literally written for all of our favorite shows, And
Speaker 1: I would imagine, like our our listeners favorite shows thirty,
Speaker 1: How I Might Your Mother, Mad TV, back Inside Amy
Speaker 1: Schumer and featured on Inside Amy Sere Girls. I mean,
Speaker 1: like truly like this. It's gonna feel good to have
Speaker 1: touched so many of these formative television shows. We're gonna
Speaker 1: get into it, into it. We're so excited to have her.
Speaker 1: Oh and Don't Think twice she was she wash My god,
Speaker 1: I I saw Don't Think twice in this gorgeous theater
Speaker 1: downtown in Denver with a bunch of en beautiful and
Speaker 1: pr love and motherfucker and they ate it up and
Speaker 1: they ate Tammy up. And so please give a warm
Speaker 1: You're welcome to our guest, such a fan like I'll
Speaker 1: smile too. Bid. No, you guys, like I was telling you,
Speaker 1: I am horrified at how long it took me to
Speaker 1: find Last Cultures Does just a few months ago. And
Speaker 1: then I full I think I listened to every episode,
Speaker 1: which is hundreds of hours, and you've spent in my
Speaker 1: brain hundreds of hours. But explain because you because Tammy
Speaker 1: just recorded an episode of Seek Treatment, which I'm very
Speaker 1: excited to, but not a competition. Made that clear, watched
Speaker 1: the Instagram story about it. That's how obsessed with you
Speaker 1: guys I am. It's just you know, there's people out
Speaker 1: there who want to watch the world burn. One of
Speaker 1: them Jill Kim Booster. He came on here and you'll
Speaker 1: hear his episode of Last Coulturesos coming out. It must
Speaker 1: have already come out, um, and he sets the record
Speaker 1: straight about the Last Cultures Treatment situation. I don't know
Speaker 1: that the Last Cultureista this one has come out yet,
Speaker 1: but before this episode it will. Okay, okay, okay, But
Speaker 1: I have to say, even in Seek Treatment he made
Speaker 1: it clear. Look, no, no, no, this is not a competition.
Speaker 1: It's just that this is you guys have had my
Speaker 1: friends on exactly Tammy. No I'm well, I'm literally have
Speaker 1: been plunged in the depths of your pools. Yes, you
Speaker 1: love Pat Regan. Okay, so I hadn't even have Okay,
Speaker 1: So Pat Regan did the show called We Will Turn
Speaker 1: You Gay? Right that the name of it at Doug
Speaker 1: Close Marathon. I just stay to watch it because I
Speaker 1: love Brandon Scott Jones. One of the best is a
Speaker 1: light absolutely yeah, and so I just was like, oh
Speaker 1: see him watch it changed my life. It just reminded
Speaker 1: me of the joy of improv and the joy of friendship.
Speaker 1: And also like Brian Foss, who has come on with
Speaker 1: for years, I have never seen him in provised like that,
Speaker 1: really physically and emotionally. I was just like, Okay, fuck
Speaker 1: straight people, I gotta got seriously like whatever Josh and
Speaker 1: was not Aron? Not Aaron? Aaron was So it was Aaron, Brian,
Speaker 1: Pat and BSh. I saw the instagram stories and the
Speaker 1: instagrams of you guys just all going out afterwards, getting
Speaker 1: up grabbing a bite. We grabbed a bite at bar
Speaker 1: Burger Culture and it was just like, who is this
Speaker 1: delightful young man named Pat Regan? And everybody was like,
Speaker 1: whoever was at the show. I can't. Now I feel
Speaker 1: bad because I can't remember. And it was like, oh Morgan, you,
Speaker 1: Grace Jared, everyone with the three names. She was like
Speaker 1: Pat was my favorite improv student and like b S
Speaker 1: of course is like Pat's the best. And I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: I didn't even know. Yeah, I didn't know who this
Speaker 1: Pat was. And he was like I left improv and
Speaker 1: all this and now I just stand up. This is
Speaker 1: only show. And I was like, okay, I'm gons asked
Speaker 1: started following him, and then he announced I'm going to
Speaker 1: do this show called Seek Treatment. I was like, that's
Speaker 1: a brilliant title. No idea who this cat calling character is? Whatever.
Speaker 1: I love a podcast, and so then I was like
Speaker 1: googling it. Of course it's not going to be on
Speaker 1: for weeks. But then the other thing you find in
Speaker 1: iTunes if you google Pat Regan as last cultureista, Oh
Speaker 1: my god. And then just years, just years, and it
Speaker 1: just you guys became my nearest and ears. And then
Speaker 1: my heart jumped five million because you've mentioned like there's
Speaker 1: a Jeff Hiller episode, oh Gravid Water that I was
Speaker 1: in a scene with him, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: who are you? And it just like, I can't even
Speaker 1: and I've been talking about you guys other people. I
Speaker 1: was just telling Jason King yes, and you guys said
Speaker 1: Jeremy Bailer on I was Tyler. I always say Bailer,
Speaker 1: but it's biler but it's biler fully my friend, it's
Speaker 1: actually true. And friends, yeah, I mean my friends don't mispronouncing.
Speaker 1: You gonna have Jeremy you have to yes, yes, which
Speaker 1: I've heard because I seriously have heard hundreds of hours
Speaker 1: of you guys. Can't believe that, but you guys have
Speaker 1: introduced me just so many amazing comedic voices, including your own.
Speaker 1: But also like so I was just like I've been
Speaker 1: telling people, I was like, you are the future of comedy.
Speaker 1: And then I was like, no, you're not, You're fucking comedy.
Speaker 1: I was like, you guys are like not even the
Speaker 1: future of comedy. You're just straight up no, it's true.
Speaker 1: And it's also like then I was like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: need to be more on top of things because I
Speaker 1: need to know who the future of comedy is. But
Speaker 1: like I went and saw Larry Owens guys, Caroline, Yes,
Speaker 1: it was phenomenal. Cat was phenomenal, Like in the other
Speaker 1: two comics on it were great except their stand ups
Speaker 1: and like they were very excellent stand up, But I
Speaker 1: don't love stand up like other people do, like God bless.
Speaker 1: It's just it's also like whenever anybody's like I hate
Speaker 1: and probably like I totally get it. I totally get it.
Speaker 1: But Kat and Larry are just it feels like that, right,
Speaker 1: it seems like an evolution. Yeah. I always say, like,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's so interesting that but it feels
Speaker 1: like this something happened in New York. And we talked
Speaker 1: about this often, but because I also came up through
Speaker 1: UCB and so like, I was on MOD for about
Speaker 1: a year and a half and Katherine was on at
Speaker 1: the same time, and she did she was we were
Speaker 1: we were on while we were on the same night.
Speaker 1: We're on different teams, but um and I knew her
Speaker 1: just from seeing her to a characters around. She'd see
Speaker 1: me do my characters around. We kind of like, you know,
Speaker 1: we just knew each other like that, And I got
Speaker 1: this sense watching her on stage. I was like, she
Speaker 1: can do so much more than what she's allowed to
Speaker 1: do right now in this moment. And I felt the
Speaker 1: same way. I felt like, you know, my like I
Speaker 1: haven't figured it out at and then you know, there
Speaker 1: was some musicians that also crossed over with comedy, and
Speaker 1: then it kind of became this thing of like let's
Speaker 1: sing and like let's kind of like embrace different kind
Speaker 1: of mediums. And it just was weird because it also
Speaker 1: kind of felt like it really was the queer comedy
Speaker 1: community and like the Brooklyn community all coming together and
Speaker 1: then you seeb people who knew form really well all
Speaker 1: combining together and just kind of mishmashing to create, like
Speaker 1: you guys created with pop which I never I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: I feel like so many years behind the thing, but
Speaker 1: then you guys have created like Papula was fun, and
Speaker 1: you know, you know, I always felt like Populart might
Speaker 1: have been. I said, if Papulette was happening right now,
Speaker 1: I think it would be huge. But because it was
Speaker 1: happening then, and we really were at the Pit a lot,
Speaker 1: like and the love the Pit, but it's very it's
Speaker 1: very community driven, like it kind of stayed within its
Speaker 1: bubble um. We did do a show at You See
Speaker 1: Me for a year, but like um, towards that point,
Speaker 1: we were kind of like the group was kind of
Speaker 1: like you know, phasing out. But but I also have
Speaker 1: to say, like there's a thing of like musical theater
Speaker 1: that is very on the margins, and like it's less
Speaker 1: on the margins now, but as somebody who cannot sing
Speaker 1: does not enjoy musical theater, like I was very much like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's fine that it's on the margins, like I was
Speaker 1: part of the marginalization problem. But but then there's like
Speaker 1: craziest girlfriend now, and then there's like Larry and Cat
Speaker 1: and like what you guys doing, like that episode that
Speaker 1: Larry was on with you guys, which also, first of all,
Speaker 1: I don't think so honey my mind, it like literally
Speaker 1: gave me chill. Don't think about it. Him covered from
Speaker 1: it your own friendship. Oh, absolutely, Larry and I are.
Speaker 1: But then Larry the other day, Larry keeps apologizing to me,
Speaker 1: not for that, but for something else that it should
Speaker 1: be that it was amazing, It was amazing Larry. Larry
Speaker 1: will say things to me all the time, and I
Speaker 1: just have and I just like accepted for what it is,
Speaker 1: which is just him. Like he was like the other day,
Speaker 1: he was like, oh no, like people, he was like people,
Speaker 1: as this is the nicest thing that was also veiled
Speaker 1: in like an insult. He was like, you know, people
Speaker 1: people like you, people as smart as you were, always
Speaker 1: evil are always are always inherently chaotic and evil. And
Speaker 1: I was like, well, that's fully mean. I was like,
Speaker 1: you there's a tiny tinge of like mean too, and
Speaker 1: he was like, hello chaotic evil and I was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I was like, um maybe, I
Speaker 1: was like, I was like, but I don't think I am.
Speaker 1: And then and then like twenty minutes later, he was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know why I said that. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I was like, you don't worry he said it because
Speaker 1: it's hilarious. It's very sorry. He gave me a backhand
Speaker 1: and compment as well. He was like, I never worry
Speaker 1: about you want to say, and I know you're always
Speaker 1: going to kill, and like there's not always jokes, but
Speaker 1: like you always kill. And I'm like, Larry, I was like,
Speaker 1: I was here before you. It's so funny because so
Speaker 1: seeing him at Carolines like he fully he's it's insane.
Speaker 1: It's insane. But it was also I went with Jason Kim, Jason, sorry,
Speaker 1: anytime you mentioned I'll be like, but it's also like
Speaker 1: you just use like a soundboard on your phone, but
Speaker 1: it was. We were sitting at a table with this
Speaker 1: girl who brought her parents, which was fine. We loved
Speaker 1: them until they did not shut the funk up all
Speaker 1: the way through the show. And also like that you
Speaker 1: drink minimum just meant that they were talking more and
Speaker 1: more and more um, but she just kept being like,
Speaker 1: he's so nice really because he also like his stage
Speaker 1: persona is like fuck you, then we'll just not safe
Speaker 1: please or thank you on stage. So I think it's
Speaker 1: also it's like comedic persona, but I also think, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, like it's you know, it's it's hard
Speaker 1: when you're a people pleaser and if you end up
Speaker 1: like like me personally, I'm not gonna I don't know
Speaker 1: Larry at all. I've heard him on several podcasts, but
Speaker 1: I have to admit that does not mean that I
Speaker 1: know him. But I'm a people pleaser, and I end
Speaker 1: up being my meanest when I am people pleasing too much,
Speaker 1: because you just feel like stepped on, even though I'm
Speaker 1: the one doing the stepping, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: And I do feel like I mean, he always talks
Speaker 1: about like code switching I think like code switching is
Speaker 1: automatic people pleasing all right, well, and it's exhausting and
Speaker 1: it makes yeah totally. I mean does that ever come
Speaker 1: through in your work, you would say, because I feel
Speaker 1: like you're seeing that in Larry is sort of performance
Speaker 1: persona and like that is like like his comedy is
Speaker 1: sort of like I mean, it's like sort of the
Speaker 1: vessel for that thing. Like when you write, is that
Speaker 1: is that a weird question? Like no, not at all,
Speaker 1: Like are you like in a room like are you
Speaker 1: I don't know what? What are the politics of that?
Speaker 1: When you're in a writer's room where you're like, am
Speaker 1: I it's really interesting because so much of a writer's
Speaker 1: room is and it's different on different shows. Writer's rooms
Speaker 1: are different on different shows. But um so, right now,
Speaker 1: I'm it Orange is a New Blacks and it is
Speaker 1: the most argumentative room that I've ever been, really and
Speaker 1: it's wild, Like I'm not used to that at all,
Speaker 1: And it's actually been really exciting and really cool and
Speaker 1: we really get into it about stories and it's as
Speaker 1: someone who's as conflict phobic as I am, it's been
Speaker 1: really educational. Do you think that that's because like people
Speaker 1: that watch Orange as the New Black, Like they're not
Speaker 1: just watching it as a pure comedy, they're watching it
Speaker 1: because there are so many social issues A million about
Speaker 1: one million percents. Yeah, no, it is. And I would
Speaker 1: take the quote unquote off of it. I really would,
Speaker 1: and like and I also think, like, you know, all
Speaker 1: of us who are writers there now, we're all there.
Speaker 1: Most of us are there from season six and seven. Um,
Speaker 1: there's a couple who have been there from season five
Speaker 1: and that's it. But but the stories from the beginning
Speaker 1: are like, this is a room that argues and cares
Speaker 1: and people care passionately Genji and Tara, like that's what
Speaker 1: they promote. But is because of the issues. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I guess that would have to be. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: not something like you know, I would imagine like Amy Schumer,
Speaker 1: like her room is probably more is it more fun,
Speaker 1: like if it's a sketch show or kind of you know,
Speaker 1: I don't even know that it's it's much about that.
Speaker 1: I think it's also just like people not being afraid
Speaker 1: and you know what I mean, Like, I don't even
Speaker 1: because I've definitely heard about comedy rooms that are really argumentative,
Speaker 1: So I don't even like the chemistry of the room.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but I do think that this show,
Speaker 1: like we definitely get into it. Although like the ugliest
Speaker 1: fights have been about comedy. Like that's when I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't like this. This doesn't feel good anymore. We're
Speaker 1: not arguing about it's not even like even that general
Speaker 1: is literally like no, that joke needs to go in
Speaker 1: the next beat. No it's not. And it's just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it different sometimes like whenever we have to sit down
Speaker 1: and write it together, I'm always it's there's these little
Speaker 1: moments where it's like no, I think it's a beat
Speaker 1: and then this line or like this line, and it's
Speaker 1: like this moment of like I don't think will agree, okay, no,
Speaker 1: and you want it is the uglies. Okay, So two things,
Speaker 1: two thoughts. I had. One is okay, so do you,
Speaker 1: Holly Dias listen to podcasts? I don't have friends, but
Speaker 1: my favorite murder Yeah yeah, we listened to it. Okay.
Speaker 1: They have famously gone to therapy together and they are
Speaker 1: astronomically successful, and so it's like, I don't think that's
Speaker 1: a bad idea for you guys at all, because you
Speaker 1: are in a business together. This is a partnership. And
Speaker 1: the other thing I was gonna say about writing with
Speaker 1: somebody is I really do feel like finding somebody that
Speaker 1: you write well with is like one on one that's
Speaker 1: like falling in love, Like it's very special and very rare.
Speaker 1: Like you can write with a lot of different people,
Speaker 1: but finding somebody where it doesn't feel like you want
Speaker 1: to kill them and yourself. Yeah, I'm feeling that all
Speaker 1: the time with most people, especially when you get put
Speaker 1: in a room that you didn't necessarily you're happy to
Speaker 1: be in, but you didn't necessarily choose the people in it.
Speaker 1: And but I didn't necessarily, I mean, you did not
Speaker 1: at all. Like, so it's like and then my thing
Speaker 1: is like you're at You're at us and now now
Speaker 1: um and so now it's just kind of like because
Speaker 1: you have a lot of friends there, it almost feels like, well,
Speaker 1: I had the option to write with someone I know
Speaker 1: historically before this, but that's not always the case. I mean,
Speaker 1: they can put you on different things and then you
Speaker 1: have to navigate your own response to their creative process. Also,
Speaker 1: even somebody that you like, I mean, there have been
Speaker 1: so many people that I love and I don't necessarily
Speaker 1: love writing with. It's different, it's a different piece. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I totally agree. In fact, like we we now. I
Speaker 1: try to whenever we're like not agreeing on something, what
Speaker 1: I always like to say. And this is the same
Speaker 1: with Sudi, who's my other writing partner. And like you know,
Speaker 1: when I've written chops with other people, it's always Dave
Speaker 1: I work with. It's always kind of like, let's vocalize
Speaker 1: the fact that this is a thing. Let's talk about
Speaker 1: like what it is that I'm agreeing on and potentially why,
Speaker 1: because I think that will like that will get it
Speaker 1: out in the open and then we can really actually
Speaker 1: get down to justifying why we both think this thing
Speaker 1: and then we can move on. I think it has
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm just I'm genuinely curious. Well, I think
Speaker 1: that when you're really honest, at least you can understand
Speaker 1: where the other person is coming from. We had a
Speaker 1: breakthrough last weekend about we had an emotional breakthrough. It
Speaker 1: wasn't a creative break. It was the best kind of
Speaker 1: break there. It was fuel Well, okay, so here's the two.
Speaker 1: So we went up to the upstate New York Mets
Speaker 1: on the ground. Yeah, we were I actually was actively
Speaker 1: trying not suppose, because I was trying to enjoy my experience,
Speaker 1: because we did for the very first time. I had
Speaker 1: never done this, but we dropped acid. Okay, And so no,
Speaker 1: I have never done acid or mushrooms, but I've heard
Speaker 1: mushrooms or the thing to do if you're in nature.
Speaker 1: My friend, my my weather friend who I won't say
Speaker 1: they said, she called themselves some mushrooms girl, And I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, and is that why you were like,
Speaker 1: let's do acid? My my? You know, I don't think
Speaker 1: he'd mind me saying this. My ex Henry like he
Speaker 1: was a big proponent of, you know, as going out
Speaker 1: and doing acid and going out on the woods and
Speaker 1: or like in like some sort of park or something
Speaker 1: to be with nature at all psychedelic. So we did
Speaker 1: that and like that was amazing, just like literally sitting
Speaker 1: next to a tree and being like this tree is alive.
Speaker 1: Like and then later on we did have a moment
Speaker 1: where I realized that I hadn't said something to you
Speaker 1: that I think I needed to say to you and
Speaker 1: you needed to hear. Can you share it? I will
Speaker 1: share it. So when the SNL thing came about, I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm going to cry right now. Ya um.
Speaker 1: Like then they say, well, we're offering your writing position,
Speaker 1: and then there's that moment where it's like, well, I
Speaker 1: take the writing position. And so it's that moment of like,
Speaker 1: we're honest with each other, we're best friends. We talked
Speaker 1: about it, and this thing of like I have to
Speaker 1: decide whether or not this is happening, and he did
Speaker 1: decide to and that he had to call me and
Speaker 1: tell me that that was happening because there were plans
Speaker 1: for this podcast to move on and do other things.
Speaker 1: And and I think this weekend was the first time
Speaker 1: I ever told you that had you not taken that job,
Speaker 1: that would have broken my heart like that that would
Speaker 1: have like and and then I just like that was
Speaker 1: when I said that to you. I realized that that
Speaker 1: was so important for me to say and for I
Speaker 1: think for you to hear. How did it feel hearing it?
Speaker 1: It was? It was it was really it was like
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly emotional where where it just like breaks critical mass
Speaker 1: and I just I had to I had to sit
Speaker 1: with it. And like, normally I'm pretty immediate in my
Speaker 1: emotional responses to things, but it took me a long time,
Speaker 1: I mean a relatively long time, and then then when
Speaker 1: I started talking, that's when I started to tear up
Speaker 1: and cry, like it was it was it was, it
Speaker 1: was a big moment, but it was you know, and
Speaker 1: the thing is too, like it's weird. I actually think
Speaker 1: if if I have to say what it is that
Speaker 1: kept me from saying that and vocalizing that, because we
Speaker 1: are very emotional people and we share a lot, I
Speaker 1: do have to say, I think it goes back to
Speaker 1: this thing of like, don't be too emotional or forthcoming
Speaker 1: or like whatever it is. I do think it's like
Speaker 1: what you were talking about before, the kind of repression
Speaker 1: that exists inside um. But it's also like I'm so
Speaker 1: because oh my god, you are crying whatever, It's okay,
Speaker 1: it's okay, but like that was beautiful, but also like
Speaker 1: you just as easily could have said like it broke
Speaker 1: my heart that you took it, and I would have
Speaker 1: totally understood what you were coming from, and so like,
Speaker 1: I am so glad that you were at the place
Speaker 1: of it would have broken my heart if you hadn't
Speaker 1: taken it. Like that's and I think I always knew that,
Speaker 1: But that's really like if I'm bowling, Like, I mean,
Speaker 1: wasn't there that Like I could totally understand it. If
Speaker 1: you would say, like it broke my heart that you
Speaker 1: chose it, I get it. I totally get it. But
Speaker 1: I also, like you know what I mean totally. I mean,
Speaker 1: I I spent the day sort of deciding. I just
Speaker 1: had like give or to like twenty four hours, give
Speaker 1: or take a few to decide. Um. And Matt knew,
Speaker 1: Like Matt was, was there every step of the way,
Speaker 1: like throughout that whole day. I was. It was just
Speaker 1: it wasn't in like an open and shut thing. It
Speaker 1: was like I really had to like ruminate on it
Speaker 1: for like a limited amount of time because it's gonna
Speaker 1: be a life. Yeah, and and so uh because it's
Speaker 1: interesting that yes, this is also knows. Yeah it was.
Speaker 1: It meant no to a lot of other stuff. Um Like,
Speaker 1: it meant turning down other like opportunities that were happening
Speaker 1: like concurrently that we're like already in motion, and it
Speaker 1: was it had to sort of put the kaibash on
Speaker 1: that on on those things. And so yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was a lot. It was a very it was
Speaker 1: a very fraud day. And then I called Matt and
Speaker 1: sort of like that, I like I knew that that
Speaker 1: was like this like sort of locus of the friendship
Speaker 1: that like we would refer back to for a long time.
Speaker 1: It wasn't that exactly the time that you guys went
Speaker 1: to the view it was it was, Oh my god, okay,
Speaker 1: it was. It was like so that like the fact
Speaker 1: that that happened the same fucking day of just like
Speaker 1: you getting your heart stepped on in such a hilarious way,
Speaker 1: and then like Boeen, like fully like managing your feelings
Speaker 1: because like that was, like you did hilarious. I don't
Speaker 1: think so, honey, But like watching it, like Bowen is
Speaker 1: fully like trying to be there for this kid who
Speaker 1: lost a hundred pounds, but also then like looking at
Speaker 1: you that the video of it got both much attention,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't but I was thinking about it of course.
Speaker 1: But it's also I will say this as a third person,
Speaker 1: it would not it only existed in relationship, so of
Speaker 1: course it can feel like oh my god, Bowen, the
Speaker 1: slow clap, But like the thing that was so amazing
Speaker 1: to me about it was the friendship and the thing
Speaker 1: that I love about your guys in your podcast is
Speaker 1: the empathy and the love and that's what all of
Speaker 1: that was. So it was also just like your and
Speaker 1: it is like it is funny because like I know,
Speaker 1: she means everything to you. And oh, I need, I
Speaker 1: do need to tell you that my time at mad TV,
Speaker 1: I met her the day after she was because you
Speaker 1: got a shot American Idol sketch with Debora Wilson, Wilson Whitney.
Speaker 1: It was it was it was it was Whitney. It
Speaker 1: was like it was like it was it was like
Speaker 1: all these has beens who like out of the fact
Speaker 1: that you remember, I fully do know God was do
Speaker 1: you know where that you know what that was, which
Speaker 1: then gave birth to grew. I'm telling you it was
Speaker 1: derived from that. I love that. You guys. How amazing
Speaker 1: Deborah Wilson is she has been like my Rodolph is amazing, amazing.
Speaker 1: But Debord Wilson had the best Whitney Houston, without question,
Speaker 1: fucking that cast. I will say, Okay, this is Stephanie Weird,
Speaker 1: the best of all time. Even just Michael McDonald as
Speaker 1: like a queer Like people didn't know it at the time,
Speaker 1: but you look back and you're like, yes, that was
Speaker 1: what he was allowed to be on the show totally,
Speaker 1: but like he's he's you know, doing gankbusters and like
Speaker 1: directs a million TV shows all the time, but he
Speaker 1: also has kind of your story. Well, but it took
Speaker 1: him even longer to come out because he was Orange
Speaker 1: County grew up and like you know in this like
Speaker 1: Orange County is the long island. Yeah I believe that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I believe that. Yeah, that cast was absolutely stacked. As
Speaker 1: you met Kelly the day after, she wont what you
Speaker 1: guys shot that the day after she had the same
Speaker 1: streaky highlights. Oh my god, remember you can never forget
Speaker 1: those iconic blonde streaks. Yeah, as your mom my mom
Speaker 1: famously said, you know that that's the only person who
Speaker 1: can pull it off, which is so questionable. So also,
Speaker 1: like you are not done meeting her like that was
Speaker 1: just not time. I will say, I'm happy that it
Speaker 1: did not happen on live television, yes, because I've also
Speaker 1: talked about how I did the Stern after show the
Speaker 1: day she was on and I she was coming out,
Speaker 1: and I literally went and went and hid because I
Speaker 1: was like, I just cannot not this is not the time.
Speaker 1: I'm not strong enough to meet her right now. I
Speaker 1: had thought about meeting her the night before because it
Speaker 1: was happening and I was excited to be on Howard.
Speaker 1: I love Howard and I was going to do the
Speaker 1: after show, and I was thinking about the fact that
Speaker 1: I could meet her, and I started to cry. What
Speaker 1: would be can't meet her on television? I get it,
Speaker 1: I get it, And you can't meet her in the
Speaker 1: audience and like thankfully getting me. So what would be
Speaker 1: like the perfect controlled environment for you to meet Kelly?
Speaker 1: I think that like maybe if she was like like
Speaker 1: backstage at some event or something, I think that I
Speaker 1: would have to like maybe like approach her and be
Speaker 1: like like and maybe if I'm like somebody that she
Speaker 1: might know, like I don't know, have to be mean ideally,
Speaker 1: like we're talking ideal. She's coming to see you guys perform,
Speaker 1: Can you know what I mean? So it's not like
Speaker 1: you have to tell your whole story from the beginning,
Speaker 1: like she knows your story and she's coming. Yeah, do
Speaker 1: you want to know something? Fucked? Of course our booker
Speaker 1: reached out to her people and they responded, yeah, they responded,
Speaker 1: So it is like not outside the round with class,
Speaker 1: of course not. But I will say this, I will,
Speaker 1: I will, I will, but that she comes on, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, well who knows any I mean honestly, I'm
Speaker 1: like she's in the audience. She's like she's like fully
Speaker 1: on the Oh yeah no, I'm flipping it, but I
Speaker 1: would never allow it, Okay, So I okay. So the
Speaker 1: other thing is is like being a second city for
Speaker 1: years and like famously being around people who become famous.
Speaker 1: You are pure Chicago to be and like the best
Speaker 1: and all the best ways in Chicago just grew up
Speaker 1: there too. Yeah, I feel like you were Like the
Speaker 1: fact that you knew you Chicago just like makes my
Speaker 1: head explode. I feel like anyone, anyone when you hear
Speaker 1: that anyone go ahead, like went to University of Chicago,
Speaker 1: I'm like, like, you went through that essay process and
Speaker 1: all that, okay, but also it was not differ Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I did did did an essay? Right, you did? Ana,
Speaker 1: But like now it's like they're crazy. Well now there's thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they have so gotten off on like how small the
Speaker 1: percentages of people that they accepted. And this is the
Speaker 1: comedy major university. No, no, no, no, but it did
Speaker 1: not exist. When is there a kind I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: not knowing what you guys talking about the University of
Speaker 1: Chicago just like one of it's like it might as
Speaker 1: well be in ivy leagues and and like and like
Speaker 1: they're like now, like the personal statements that you write
Speaker 1: for the school specifically are like, um, they're not just
Speaker 1: like talking about a personal experience, They're like, okay, now,
Speaker 1: like for this this section of the essay, right, um,
Speaker 1: a five hundred word dialogue with the following words in
Speaker 1: its seagull like spoon, spatula like like sounds just like impress.
Speaker 1: It's just like fun if you're like they're pushing you
Speaker 1: to like do stuff that you would never do in
Speaker 1: another film, because because that was my dreams school, University
Speaker 1: of Chicago really did and why you was not your
Speaker 1: dream school? I mean, wow, some people dream different, some
Speaker 1: people dream different. So still it's biolo remember the number? Okay,
Speaker 1: sorry different different, But you were talking about, so how
Speaker 1: much has your life been determined by the fact that
Speaker 1: you went to n y U. And isn't that everything
Speaker 1: everything about? Because because I think it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: we essentially did start our professional careers as a nineteen
Speaker 1: year which is an advantage. Um you were talking about
Speaker 1: second Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, being around people that like
Speaker 1: watching them get s n L while you are across
Speaker 1: the stage from them, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: watching them get whatever they get, like all that stuff,
Speaker 1: and then just being like on stage and being like
Speaker 1: I am the person who when the show is happening,
Speaker 1: you're not watching me, which is like such a mind funck.
Speaker 1: So I've so been in that position. Um, But then
Speaker 1: like look at like Natasha rothwell if you totally and
Speaker 1: who's like I love I love Insecution, one of the
Speaker 1: most exciting shows that is out there, I know. And
Speaker 1: then she's going to be in freaking the next Wonder Woman.
Speaker 1: I cannot believe this. But it's also like Jesse Klein,
Speaker 1: Let's face it, Matt, nobody likes. Going to the doctor
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Speaker 1: They can get intimate, and they can get intimate, yes,
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Speaker 1: Everline dot com Forward slash ding Dong. Forget what I
Speaker 1: said before I bout my penis. When you experience real
Speaker 1: joy for people that you love getting stuff in this
Speaker 1: business you quadruple of the joy in your life. Like
Speaker 1: it's really like when you and that, like that is
Speaker 1: why I cheered up when you were like it would
Speaker 1: have broken my heart if you said no, because I
Speaker 1: was like, it took me a while to get there,
Speaker 1: and I'm so touched that you're there and I'm not.
Speaker 1: You know it, it's still a fucking process, so like
Speaker 1: it will change and all that, but if you choose
Speaker 1: to accept that joy, you have so much more joy
Speaker 1: in your life because honestly, everybody is getting stuff all
Speaker 1: the time, so why not love it when people you
Speaker 1: love are getting it? Do you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I'm just like holding myself just like listening to all
Speaker 1: of this. I mean, yeah, I mean, I don't really
Speaker 1: have anything to add. It's just I'm just so curious
Speaker 1: about well, and it's also I'm not I'm projecting totally
Speaker 1: on you, but it's really scary to be the person
Speaker 1: who gets stuff because that's also happened to me, where
Speaker 1: I'm just like, this is terrifying and I feel all
Speaker 1: alone and I can't aren't complain about it because I'm
Speaker 1: more successful than my friends, and I have a friend
Speaker 1: who's still a dear friend who has a hard time
Speaker 1: you know, just there in that position or yea, they're
Speaker 1: no nut. She is in a position of not getting work,
Speaker 1: and so it was really hard in our friendship because
Speaker 1: it was like, I can't share things with you because
Speaker 1: I'm constantly protecting you from kind of not a great
Speaker 1: side of your character, and it's making you a bummer
Speaker 1: because it's also it's not just with me that you're
Speaker 1: having this, You're having this with other friends. And it's like,
Speaker 1: it would be so much more fun if we could
Speaker 1: all just celebrate. And then you know, sure enough because
Speaker 1: it does happen, not on our timelines, but it happened
Speaker 1: for her fifteen years later that she's like got a
Speaker 1: really big, nice thing and she which is great, but
Speaker 1: also how much greater would it have been if she
Speaker 1: could have enjoyed all of us every step of the way. Yes,
Speaker 1: And you know that's I guess too, that like just
Speaker 1: not that we're not that tripping on asset made me
Speaker 1: see this, But I was looking. I was standing there
Speaker 1: and Study and I were like holding hands looking at
Speaker 1: the fucking sky, and I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. Everything is so big, Like it's just
Speaker 1: like we are so small and all you have is
Speaker 1: like joy and like good energy you can give other people,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like the ego doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: Like we're all it's lucky enough to be out here,
Speaker 1: healthy and doing this kind of stuff, and like we
Speaker 1: get to like do the ship for once in a while. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And how awesome that your friend got this and got
Speaker 1: the recognition that he deserves deserves. Yeah. And it's also
Speaker 1: just a positive in the industry, do you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Because it's also like the more people we
Speaker 1: love whose work we love, get stuff, the better it
Speaker 1: is for us, because that means that everything is changing.
Speaker 1: But well, I mean, hey, don't think twice there you
Speaker 1: go there obviously is media already written about Isn't that
Speaker 1: wild that he did that? What's so crazy about that
Speaker 1: movie is souper big lei. It was not from the
Speaker 1: improv world. He had done like improv and college and
Speaker 1: then he went into stand up and did amazingly well
Speaker 1: in stand up like early twenties was on Letterman. He
Speaker 1: was right, isn't that wild? He's such a regular guy
Speaker 1: that you forget how wildly successful. But it's like him
Speaker 1: and Millanny and cruel were all in that little Georgetown coat. Yes, yes.
Speaker 1: And also the thing different species stand up in improv
Speaker 1: is like you kind of blow up on your own totally,
Speaker 1: which yeah. So then he started doing improvagand a few
Speaker 1: years ago and then he did that this American life thing,
Speaker 1: I mean, like wasn't that it was like him like
Speaker 1: him sort of. He and Ira both started doing improv.
Speaker 1: I think it was like a magnet or something. Magnet.
Speaker 1: I started taking improv classes at Magnet. I don't know
Speaker 1: that that was connected to big I don't know exactly,
Speaker 1: but but big Lea I did a show at the
Speaker 1: Doug Close Marathon called micro Bigleys Dreamy remember, and I
Speaker 1: wasn't there for that. But then a few months later
Speaker 1: he was like, I want to do that again, and
Speaker 1: he asked gathered and because I lost this other job
Speaker 1: that like broke my ego, I was able to go
Speaker 1: and do that with him, which is such a dream.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about this more. So what are
Speaker 1: I just I want to talk more about these examples
Speaker 1: of the end of one opportunity just sort of like
Speaker 1: drawing a straight line to like the beguinion, because it
Speaker 1: always does seem like you are someplace so cool, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like, damn, he's running for that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just the things I just listed. I
Speaker 1: was like, that's the um contemporary pop cultural stuff for
Speaker 1: people that love television already, people that love comedy, well,
Speaker 1: that's prestige stuff. Thank you. I've been so fucking lucky.
Speaker 1: And it's also one of those things of like the
Speaker 1: narrative you know what I mean, always feels different than
Speaker 1: the right right, it feels like different than how it
Speaker 1: is on the inside. And the thing too, So that
Speaker 1: thing of drawing a straight line that's actually in Bertha
Speaker 1: back exercise that is, have you guys ever read her?
Speaker 1: I don't type of thing, yes, yes, yes, yes, Steering
Speaker 1: by Starlight, Find your north Star. Can't recommend it enough,
Speaker 1: can't recommend it enough. Oh my god. She has so
Speaker 1: many amazing exercises. So one of them is like, think
Speaker 1: of a time that you were so incredibly happy and
Speaker 1: fulfilled and like yourself, and you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: like and pick now a time that you were the opposite,
Speaker 1: and then you can draw that straight line between how
Speaker 1: one thing led to the other. And once you do
Speaker 1: that exercise, you're like, oh my god, I did not
Speaker 1: even see that and it's a hundred percent true. She
Speaker 1: also has this really cool exercise called shackles on shackles off. Okay,
Speaker 1: so this feeling of and it's hard to get yourself
Speaker 1: to do because you're like, well, I don't because it
Speaker 1: makes you feel bad. But it's like a meditative thing
Speaker 1: where you have to think of like a time in
Speaker 1: your life and like really do it, like close your
Speaker 1: eyes and feel it in your body where you felt
Speaker 1: like you didn't belong you felt you know, like nobody
Speaker 1: got you, where you felt terrible about yourself and all that,
Speaker 1: and really go there and really feel it in your
Speaker 1: body and do that thing of like how does my
Speaker 1: head feel? How does my neck feel? You know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like really find that feeling in your body
Speaker 1: and then shake it off. And then do the same
Speaker 1: thing with like a great time where you felt most
Speaker 1: and like really feel that in your body. Yep, and
Speaker 1: that shackles off. And then when you are trying to
Speaker 1: decide something like how it something makes you feel because
Speaker 1: it gets so convoluted, she's like, is this a shackles
Speaker 1: on her shackles off feeling and really going to your body.
Speaker 1: That's really good, Yeah, because it really is that simple?
Speaker 1: It is, but it's hard to make yourself do because
Speaker 1: it's also complicated, because there's also sometimes it's not just
Speaker 1: a thing, it's a relationship and you're like, how does
Speaker 1: this relationship make me feel? Yeah, I mean you've talked again,
Speaker 1: listen to hundreds of hours of you, but like your
Speaker 1: a relationship with Henry again, don't we've really just really met.
Speaker 1: But it sounds like he's a beautiful person that and
Speaker 1: I only know that from you, but like you've also
Speaker 1: talked about like that was a relationship that was over
Speaker 1: months before it was over, and how hard it is
Speaker 1: to let go of that, and like it's really terrifying
Speaker 1: to look at something with somebody that you love that's
Speaker 1: still in your body. You're like, the dynamic as it
Speaker 1: is now is not right and that's so scary to
Speaker 1: look at. Well, I think that what I've learned is
Speaker 1: that loving someone and having that person be right for
Speaker 1: you are are they are mutually exclusive? Are there not
Speaker 1: mutually exclusive? They're not the same, They're not the same thing. Um,
Speaker 1: So that's it's so hard about it is knowing, Wow,
Speaker 1: I'm not good for this person. This person is not
Speaker 1: good for me. Unfortunately, I love them like family. And
Speaker 1: then I said, I said recently, like actually said this
Speaker 1: on Katherine in Pat's podcast. I said, it's this thing
Speaker 1: that's happened over the past like eight months, which, inconveniently enough,
Speaker 1: it's happened over the past eight months when I was
Speaker 1: dealing with a lot of other stuff where it's like,
Speaker 1: you really have to move on from this relationship. I
Speaker 1: had to tell myself, like because I had not, and um,
Speaker 1: he sort of moved on, and UM, so I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: it's like this feeling that you have that you have
Speaker 1: to actively decide to just put away, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. It's this thing that's never going to because
Speaker 1: it's like it's like something in the world that feeling
Speaker 1: already takes up space and so it's never gonna not
Speaker 1: take up space. But you have to decide to take
Speaker 1: it and like put it in the back of the
Speaker 1: closet and maybe you don't shut the door of the closet,
Speaker 1: maybe the doors will open, but whatever, but you do
Speaker 1: have to just put it away. But that feeling for
Speaker 1: someone else doesn't go away, and that's what's hard. But
Speaker 1: it's like something understand it's meditation it's like what thoughts
Speaker 1: that you like, it's letting the thoughts go by, or
Speaker 1: said that old Native American thing the two wolves. Oh no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I was just I was just responding to you, linking
Speaker 1: this back to this meditative practice of just letting something go. Yeah,
Speaker 1: where you're like, oh, just because I have a thought,
Speaker 1: I don't have to dwell in it. It's just gonna
Speaker 1: go by, like a car in the road, right. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're if you're talking in these terms amount of
Speaker 1: putting something away in a closet, if you're like giving
Speaker 1: it some vague like temporal thing like that, Like I
Speaker 1: think that just means that you're displacing that feeling and
Speaker 1: you're going to address it later on. This this soundstract, abstract,
Speaker 1: but like just I mean I feel like letting it
Speaker 1: just go and dropping it completely, just not caring where
Speaker 1: it lands might be like just just see how that feels. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Because there's also something so loaded about saying I'm putting
Speaker 1: it in the claset, especially giving your experience of the imagery.
Speaker 1: I will say this, you know what I've discovered muting
Speaker 1: on Instagram. Muting on Instagram has saved my life because now,
Speaker 1: I tweeted to all the boys I've muted on Instagram, like,
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of like if some if I if
Speaker 1: I get like an obsessive feeling about like someone, if
Speaker 1: somebody hurts me, if someone's not good for me, I
Speaker 1: just mute them. And it's crazy that social media even
Speaker 1: has this power. And I was talking about feeling a
Speaker 1: little depressed a couple of months ago and Sudi was like,
Speaker 1: it's social media. I think, especially like when you start
Speaker 1: to get a little bit more attention, it's exciting because
Speaker 1: social media is like hi, like we're all we're all looking,
Speaker 1: and it's like whoa. That's also not real, and it
Speaker 1: heightens all these kinds of emotions that you would ordinarily have.
Speaker 1: So the muting has been big. My friend and night
Speaker 1: we talked about it like Big Max, where it like
Speaker 1: feels really good and then you feel like hell, hell
Speaker 1: it's Big Max and it's Max. Um Okay. I you
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that a lot of times the narrative doesn't
Speaker 1: match up with what's going on on the inside. I mean,
Speaker 1: you don't have to get into too much detail. What's
Speaker 1: like for you when someone comes up to you and says,
Speaker 1: oh my God dammy, what what an amazing sort of resume? What?
Speaker 1: What a background? What a pedigree? Like, I mean, what
Speaker 1: is like what is the thing that you're dying to
Speaker 1: tell to to like personal highlights stuff you've done. Oh
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I was going to positive direction. Sorry I was,
Speaker 1: but yeah, no go positive. Sorry I don't listen to me, No, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what I would say, Yeah, I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what I would say for personal highlight, Like, honestly,
Speaker 1: probably personal highlight is some improv shows that I've done,
Speaker 1: and they are also the best. Well that's really kind,
Speaker 1: but getting to like, there's some like shows that I've
Speaker 1: done where I was like, wow, like that felt moving
Speaker 1: and that felt moving for those of us on stage
Speaker 1: and for those of us in the audience. And I
Speaker 1: also love how ethereal it is. I love that it's
Speaker 1: fully gone and it's yeah, yeah, I do love that.
Speaker 1: And in terms of like what it's funny people say,
Speaker 1: like looking at the resume, it feels a little like
Speaker 1: social media to me, where it's like you have a
Speaker 1: very specific idea of what my life has felt like
Speaker 1: because you've seen the jobs, but it's you know, you
Speaker 1: don't see the eight months where I wasn't working and
Speaker 1: didn't know where the next job would be, and like
Speaker 1: how terrifying that was. Or also like it's funny like
Speaker 1: and we do it ourselves in our lives, but like
Speaker 1: looking back at my twenties, I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: that was the best. But I remember being in my
Speaker 1: twenties and being like what the fucking happened? And I
Speaker 1: don't know what my job is going to be and
Speaker 1: all that, and like yeah, where you're just like, hope,
Speaker 1: it was so great because it was just about the
Speaker 1: joy of it and you're like, no, there was so
Speaker 1: much fear and uncertainty. It is. It's very rose colored glasses,
Speaker 1: like but I mean you sort of can't help but
Speaker 1: have that weird, misty eyed thing about it. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: it was this formative thing, but you didn't know it
Speaker 1: back then. But I definitely try to then turn it
Speaker 1: back onto what I'm doing now, Like, especially when I'm
Speaker 1: feeling like then, I definitely try to be like Tammy
Speaker 1: of how many years ago, how would she feel like
Speaker 1: that she gets to do this, and like getting that
Speaker 1: attitude of gratitude that is a huge exercise I think
Speaker 1: where It's like whenever I start to feel really bad,
Speaker 1: I'm like, hold on a second, and I actually like
Speaker 1: this is maybe sounds a little gross, But sometimes I
Speaker 1: will list the things I've accomplished healthy and I look
Speaker 1: at it and I'm like, fuck, yeah, like I did
Speaker 1: all I did so many other things I wanted to do, honestly.
Speaker 1: Like It's like when I was like, you guys are
Speaker 1: the future of comedy. No, you're just comedy. I'm just
Speaker 1: the end of comedy. But like I do feel like
Speaker 1: such a like a kinship to you guys, And like,
Speaker 1: do you like how I was in my twenties? Do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? I mean I've been I like,
Speaker 1: this is so crazy. But like when we had friend
Speaker 1: Gillespie on the show. I said to her, I was like,
Speaker 1: you were the improviser that I used to seek out,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like when I was going
Speaker 1: to UCB classes and there was also you. I mean,
Speaker 1: I remember Tammy adian Spo. That was one of my
Speaker 1: favorite shows that I had seen. And then Tammy and
Speaker 1: Spo did it? Did it like a two proud show
Speaker 1: like a couple of years back to cum right or
Speaker 1: was it Tammy? It was it always Tammy Adian Spo.
Speaker 1: It was it was Tammy and Shannon have friends and yes, yes, okay,
Speaker 1: so that was just so great and like and just
Speaker 1: it's crazy to even be like that my friends that
Speaker 1: I'm friends with, Brandon Scott Jones, you know what I
Speaker 1: mean to get it, but I'm friends with Josh Barbardaron Jackson,
Speaker 1: you know what. It's just like and I think they
Speaker 1: would like roll their eyes and say okay, b and
Speaker 1: me saying that, but like, really that's those things that
Speaker 1: that is meaningful. I mean, and you guys and like
Speaker 1: all those people are the people that inspired I know,
Speaker 1: us to even do what what we felt was like
Speaker 1: in our hearts to do in comedy. But by doing
Speaker 1: what you guys feel in your hearts, like this podcast
Speaker 1: feels so true and that's like what people respond to.
Speaker 1: And that's like why I do feel like Kelly Clarkson
Speaker 1: is going to be on you, like that's how it's
Speaker 1: going to happen. Can I tell you why I think
Speaker 1: I love her so much? And I know why. It's
Speaker 1: because she broke out. I think I've told you this.
Speaker 1: When she broke out, I was twelve, and so I
Speaker 1: think I had just felt realized I was gay at eleven?
Speaker 1: What did you realize you were gay? Oh? I can't
Speaker 1: put a time to it. It's funny you if I
Speaker 1: don't know that you've ever talked about conversion therapy on
Speaker 1: the pod? Yeah? Wait, what's the non main parts are Patreon? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you're still not going to talk about it. No,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm not gonna talk about you because it's a
Speaker 1: Patreon exclusive thing. Because we do the RuPaul's Drag Race
Speaker 1: recaps on Contestant this year, Dusty Raybottoms talked in depth
Speaker 1: about going through conversion arab and so when we were
Speaker 1: reviewing that episode, Bowen did detail a little bit of
Speaker 1: his um but yeah, and it's so funny because it
Speaker 1: was something that I thought I had like rear view
Speaker 1: mirrored behind me for all these years. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm so past that, I'm a I'm living out loud.
Speaker 1: It did happen. So it was it was the first
Speaker 1: sort of outing, which wasn't even an outing, was just
Speaker 1: my parents finding this like saucy like I am transcript
Speaker 1: and then with just some random guy and on the
Speaker 1: on the internet gay robot. It was a gay robot
Speaker 1: and then um so he found that UM, and it
Speaker 1: was just like two weeks of just coming home to
Speaker 1: like my parents like crying, like us all crying at
Speaker 1: the dinner table. I only think my dad cry once
Speaker 1: before this, when my grandpa died. And then I would
Speaker 1: just come home to him crying every day and I
Speaker 1: was like what I was like I was And then
Speaker 1: eventually you're just like, I have to fix this, and
Speaker 1: so you'll do any responsibil totally. And then and then
Speaker 1: my parents, uh, just having this sort of gap and
Speaker 1: cultural understanding, which I don't begrudge them for at all.
Speaker 1: They were just like, well, this is a problem, and
Speaker 1: what do we do we fix we fix it? Um
Speaker 1: he has There's plenty of Native Americans, not Native Americans,
Speaker 1: white Americans who do the same UM. And so you know,
Speaker 1: they found this grip and done where they found this
Speaker 1: guy in Colorado Springs who went by an alias and
Speaker 1: who like had very just had a very sort of
Speaker 1: why did you go by an alias? Because they constantly
Speaker 1: get harassed by like activist groups and that are trying
Speaker 1: to do the right thing and shut this thing. I
Speaker 1: love he is closing. He's literally cloaked in shame doing
Speaker 1: this thing where he's that same exactly. There are so
Speaker 1: many layers of shame to this because anyway it was
Speaker 1: he was in collar, out of Springs, Like we're focused
Speaker 1: on the family. Is like all these like mega churches
Speaker 1: are super religious, religiously fertile place. And it's your older sister,
Speaker 1: she like off in college at she's in college at
Speaker 1: this point, she's trying to um and young. I think
Speaker 1: she's listening. She's trying to um sort of straddle the
Speaker 1: line and sort of played the both sides, and she's
Speaker 1: she I don't give her the credit, but she really
Speaker 1: had to moderate and mediate a lot of stuff back then,
Speaker 1: and from far away, from far away, she was doing
Speaker 1: something like I'm having her own formative experiences in college
Speaker 1: totally like she you know, for her to sort of
Speaker 1: be like like, you know, sort of learned into this
Speaker 1: other thing. So it's I think it's very different being
Speaker 1: Chinese but being Israeli, and like we moved when I
Speaker 1: was three and my brother was thirteen and my sister
Speaker 1: is eight. Like it's also like you feel like your
Speaker 1: siblings are the only ones who really get it with
Speaker 1: your parents. And so even like when my parents were
Speaker 1: being wrong, I still fundamentally felt like they were being right,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? So it's also like
Speaker 1: I would be surrounding people being like that's insane, that's ridiculous,
Speaker 1: and being like, well, but you have to see it
Speaker 1: from their point of view. So that's where sibling really
Speaker 1: comes in, because they see it from their point of view.
Speaker 1: That's essentially what she did. And then at first my
Speaker 1: response was just was to lash and be like how
Speaker 1: can you like, like, how can you sort of not
Speaker 1: pick pick a side? Like how can you try to
Speaker 1: understand them? Because because your dad, because you're the one
Speaker 1: who's in pain, I'm the one, but it's also so
Speaker 1: are they, and it's so unbearable. So yeah, so so
Speaker 1: just would would you know, drive an hour and happy
Speaker 1: tway with my dad? And then those were I mean,
Speaker 1: those were actually bonding experiences between me and my dad
Speaker 1: weird way where we would just have like conversations that
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with it. It's like three hours
Speaker 1: of one on one card time, which is like, you know,
Speaker 1: fraughten whatever. But that wasn't even I mean, that was
Speaker 1: like the highlight of the whole thing, because the sessions
Speaker 1: themselves were just I mean, they started out as just
Speaker 1: playing old therapy like talk therapy with somebody with a
Speaker 1: really fucked up agenda totally, someone with like you know,
Speaker 1: quacky diplomas on the wall. And then um, by the end,
Speaker 1: that was when he started this exercise of just let's
Speaker 1: walk through all these different times you felt attracted towards
Speaker 1: a man, how did you feel in your body? He
Speaker 1: would just try to apply these like just like like,
Speaker 1: didn't you feel terrible about yourself while you were attracted
Speaker 1: to this person? That's what the sources. And then by
Speaker 1: the end, yes, when in your adolescence do you feel
Speaker 1: anything sexual and not feel horrible totally? And then and
Speaker 1: then that's that's true for everybody, true for everyone. And
Speaker 1: then the last session, um was when he was just
Speaker 1: trying to like just give me some parting wisdom about
Speaker 1: the whole experience. Was there like we're going to do
Speaker 1: twenty sessions or was it like it was limited because
Speaker 1: the timing of it was I was going to college
Speaker 1: immediately after. This is the summer before college, summer before
Speaker 1: you all closeted for n y U for such a
Speaker 1: and your parents just being like, oh my god, we
Speaker 1: have to do this well, um, and then, but the
Speaker 1: the n y U thing came out of and it's
Speaker 1: so funny that just everything that's happening now is is
Speaker 1: sort of like a result of that, is is butterfly
Speaker 1: effected out of that. But my sister was already at
Speaker 1: a YO, so she was sort of the watchful eye.
Speaker 1: And that's like another thing that like she was foisted
Speaker 1: with and that we haven't talked about. But um, anyway,
Speaker 1: you need to do acid with her. I need to
Speaker 1: do askid with her. I don't know she's a mom that,
Speaker 1: but she she's not frustrating anywhere. No, totally. Um. But
Speaker 1: the last session he just tries to like he just
Speaker 1: starts going into this anecdote about a former patient of his.
Speaker 1: I him who well he's and he starts he narrates
Speaker 1: in the third person. He was like, so the sky's
Speaker 1: driving down the highway in California, gets off at Sandbergodina.
Speaker 1: It's two yem He stops by Denny's and then he
Speaker 1: looks up in the waiters there, and the waiter starts
Speaker 1: making eyes at him, and and then he switches to
Speaker 1: the first person and then he's like, and I was like,
Speaker 1: am I really going to have sex? With this guy
Speaker 1: like starts to sort of and then catches himself like
Speaker 1: mid story, being like, oh, I just I just outed
Speaker 1: myself because he was like this was a couple of
Speaker 1: months ago, and like this is a couple of months ago,
Speaker 1: Like like this is a couple of months before, like
Speaker 1: before this, before this last session with him, he said,
Speaker 1: this had just happened. So this had just happened. And
Speaker 1: then it was like very obvious to me that I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, this is all a fucking ship. So
Speaker 1: thank god you got that little peek where you like,
Speaker 1: this does not work, does not work, and even the
Speaker 1: person who is administering this kind of quote unquote treatment
Speaker 1: that I literally stop and then one million percent like that. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I was just like, you gotta write this, you go.
Speaker 1: And the best part was after, like my dad had
Speaker 1: very politely like, if you have any sort of referrals
Speaker 1: for people who do this in New York, we would
Speaker 1: love that. And then the funniest to me, this is
Speaker 1: the funniest thing in the world. After our session ends,
Speaker 1: we're saying goodbyes, and then he pulls out the sheet
Speaker 1: of paper and he goes, so, um, these are the
Speaker 1: names I was able to find of people who do
Speaker 1: this um in New York, but um, you know, it's
Speaker 1: not a lot of it's not a lot of people.
Speaker 1: And the closest person is in New Haven, you know,
Speaker 1: like sound like Connecticut town, like fifty miles away. And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, okay, this is We're not
Speaker 1: going to keep this going because people don't do this
Speaker 1: like in New York, and they just don't do this
Speaker 1: in general, Like he was, I don't know, I no
Speaker 1: wonder if there was no one in New York, because
Speaker 1: that you wouldn't be able to a keep that practice
Speaker 1: running in New York. Like there you're exposed to the
Speaker 1: fucking right things. What's so terrifying to me about like Okay,
Speaker 1: that's so obvious and blah blah blah. And then it's
Speaker 1: our fucking vice president some of you who absolutely believes
Speaker 1: in it and puts money into it, and we're just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. So anyway, that's that's the whole sort
Speaker 1: of when did you come out to your parents for real?
Speaker 1: And we're like for real, Um, this was the beginning
Speaker 1: of senior year of college, so it was so it
Speaker 1: was it was like me kind of going back into
Speaker 1: the closet. After my sister graduates that semester, I came out,
Speaker 1: tell my friends like Imat and the rest of the
Speaker 1: comedy people, and in you, and then it spent about
Speaker 1: a year and a half closeted again um or closeted
Speaker 1: to my parents, but out to everyone else, and then
Speaker 1: that sort of I remember when you even came out
Speaker 1: at college. It was like something you had said, but
Speaker 1: like it was like we were to take it with
Speaker 1: a grain of salt. It felt like that really it
Speaker 1: was like not confirmed and interesting, Yeah, what do you mean?
Speaker 1: Like it was like it was we had heard that
Speaker 1: he had come out and went back in the closet before,
Speaker 1: And this is now we were as close as we
Speaker 1: are now. This is when you were fighting over that girl.
Speaker 1: That's a girl. That girl is like just like I
Speaker 1: have no one in my life she's doing. But I
Speaker 1: met you. I met you and we were both quote
Speaker 1: unquote straight, and then you were I was gay first,
Speaker 1: and then you were gay. But we were told that
Speaker 1: you had been also gay two years before, and then
Speaker 1: you went back to the closet, and so we no
Speaker 1: one was really could be sure. I don't know if
Speaker 1: I can trust him college. Wait, we have to ask
Speaker 1: Tammy the question. We haven't even even asked Hammy the question.
Speaker 1: Let me put my button on what I said. One
Speaker 1: which was the reason I liked Kelly Clarkson is because
Speaker 1: being twelve, um, I saw someone America fall in love
Speaker 1: with someone for being who they were, and I thought, Wow,
Speaker 1: maybe someday someone will fall in love with me for
Speaker 1: who I am. And so then I was like, I
Speaker 1: was like, well, not yet, but one day I'll come
Speaker 1: out of the closet and then then I can be
Speaker 1: Kelly Clarkson levels of beloved. But you saw her and
Speaker 1: you hung you having that hope on her. She was
Speaker 1: huge for me because she was I just saw like
Speaker 1: America fall in love with her, and she seemed like
Speaker 1: you know, at the time, I think I was very
Speaker 1: easily manipulated by that ship. But it's like she was
Speaker 1: the perfect George W. Bush Arrow girl next door, but
Speaker 1: she wasn't because she was also being told nonstops she
Speaker 1: was too big, like by like by the gatekeepers by
Speaker 1: you know, Simon cow very easily felt like it could
Speaker 1: be justin Guarini, you know what I mean. I think
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been surprised either way, but I think,
Speaker 1: I mean, if it is rigged, which I'm sure those
Speaker 1: shows are, um, I think they made the right quote
Speaker 1: unquote right decision um, and like, but um yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that the reason she's been so lasting is because
Speaker 1: I think there's an entire generation of of women who
Speaker 1: look at her and they say, you know what, I
Speaker 1: don't have like a stick thin physique, My weight fluctuates.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of gay men do attach
Speaker 1: to her because I think at a very formative time,
Speaker 1: like she was like relentlessly herself and her personality, and
Speaker 1: I think everyone kind of just like really gravitated towards that.
Speaker 1: She's just authent in a way and also obviously incredibly
Speaker 1: supernaturally talented. But I do feel like that authenticity even
Speaker 1: more than the fans that it attracts, because as you
Speaker 1: are seeing on social media, people liking you is a
Speaker 1: fickle fucking beast and will change and you just cannot.
Speaker 1: It's like, uh, I think it's an allen On thing.
Speaker 1: That my friend said to me was like, other people's
Speaker 1: opinions of you are none of your business. And I
Speaker 1: was like, wait, but it's literally my business, and she's like,
Speaker 1: it's really not you think it is. It's literally none
Speaker 1: of your business and you can lose your mind about it.
Speaker 1: But like her being authentically yourself, I feel like is
Speaker 1: what has made her be consistently able to make music,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, whether or not people like
Speaker 1: the music is and she'll always remind you how good
Speaker 1: she is. Like that's the thing is. It's like she's
Speaker 1: never going to stay in the limelight because of a
Speaker 1: stunt she pulled. She's going to stay in the limelight
Speaker 1: because she was she gave an amazing performance on some show,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, or like like that's the
Speaker 1: thing is, like if like every three years, like she
Speaker 1: has like a viral moment, like when she sang it
Speaker 1: Obama's second inauguration, My country says of the it was
Speaker 1: like just so unbelievable, and that that's more famous for
Speaker 1: being because I don't remember it at all. I remember
Speaker 1: hearing about it, like everybody knows. I'm happy to put
Speaker 1: the spotlight back on it because go check out that
Speaker 1: every thinking about that was the one where she famously
Speaker 1: lip sync to National Anthem and Kelly sang live. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: but it's that's true. It's not a job it's just
Speaker 1: people remember it for being that. But also that was
Speaker 1: a moment for Kelly Harson as well. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: So it's also like having just seen Larry Owens perform
Speaker 1: and like starting to cry just as he's about to
Speaker 1: go on stage, and I was like, what is it
Speaker 1: about this? And it's like, oh, it's because talent will out,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean. It's like and it's
Speaker 1: not even about like what other people say. It's like
Speaker 1: how much I've internalized that ship And just like I
Speaker 1: feel like Kelly Clarkson, I'm sure she internalized ship, but
Speaker 1: she also didn't let it shut her up and she
Speaker 1: is out spoken to um. Let's ask the question. Let's
Speaker 1: ask the question, Tammy Seger, what was the culture that
Speaker 1: made you say culture is for me? Honestly Second City?
Speaker 1: Because we saw it when I was a kid, Like
Speaker 1: I grew up in Chicago. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we grew
Speaker 1: up and my parents would go to Second City and
Speaker 1: this is at the time where like you'd go and
Speaker 1: they would sort of decide where you sit, and my
Speaker 1: mom would fully lie about not being able to hear
Speaker 1: well sit right up front. I was too young. I
Speaker 1: saw Steve Correll yeah, Bonnie Hunt and cast Lenetta, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Mary Gross so like Tim Kezarinsky, like since I was
Speaker 1: a little kid and did not understand most of this stuff,
Speaker 1: but no, I fully remember seeing Steve Correll and Steve Colbert.
Speaker 1: We're in a show together. Oh my god, where they
Speaker 1: did They did the waiter bit maybe or was that
Speaker 1: before or after anyway, amazing. I doesn't remember the waiter bit,
Speaker 1: the water bit where they're um, they're just like like
Speaker 1: they for someone, like they were explaining the specials of
Speaker 1: the night and they just for some reason it makes
Speaker 1: them super nauseous. So they're like so they're just like
Speaker 1: like like on the verge of vomiting as they're describing.
Speaker 1: It's funny. I don't remember that so funny. But wait,
Speaker 1: that's oh my god. So what was the biggest difference
Speaker 1: between Okay, we'll talk about but also I have to say,
Speaker 1: like seeing Second City and being like and this is
Speaker 1: also when people in the Second City weren't blowing up
Speaker 1: like even like maybe they get s n L maybe
Speaker 1: like that was the biggest thing, but it wasn't like
Speaker 1: Judd apataw times. So I remember seeing Steve Carrell and
Speaker 1: being like, oh, that's so sad he's never going to
Speaker 1: be anything because he's so talented. And then it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's on the Dana Carvey Show. That doesn't last, you know,
Speaker 1: more than a minute. And then it was like when
Speaker 1: he got forty year old Virgin, or even like when
Speaker 1: inkor Man happened. Oh wait a minute, so yeah, and
Speaker 1: then you but you were pretty much ingrained in that
Speaker 1: system at that point, maybe not even like so I
Speaker 1: was a math major you've seen, and like, I really
Speaker 1: didn't see how it's going to happen. And then I did.
Speaker 1: I wrote a paper about improv and yeah, so then
Speaker 1: I got into the improv group there, and that's when
Speaker 1: I was like, I love this so much, Tammy. I mean,
Speaker 1: you are basically yeah, I totally spaced. I knew you
Speaker 1: were a math major you've seen, but I totally spaced
Speaker 1: on just this. The trajectory being like not necessarily a
Speaker 1: straight line either for you feel like and it didn't
Speaker 1: feel like it would ever get anything. And it also
Speaker 1: felt like I remember when I was like, I gotta
Speaker 1: I'm going to submit to some shows and like somebody
Speaker 1: from Daily Show and like fully told the producer and
Speaker 1: I was on main stage you know, which is like
Speaker 1: the highest thing you can get. And like I said, like,
Speaker 1: we're looking for writers, and the producer there didn't he
Speaker 1: decided who he wanted to tell to submit, and I
Speaker 1: wasn't one of the people. But I, you know, like
Speaker 1: and and this is what I haven't taught at TOM
Speaker 1: But when I have taught, I've always been like, don't
Speaker 1: worry about impressing me. There's a million people that I'm
Speaker 1: trying to bring up right now, but I'm like, but
Speaker 1: everything that I've gotten has been through people that I've
Speaker 1: come up with. So Alison Silverman, who's a brilliant writer
Speaker 1: and you know, one of the you know, original people
Speaker 1: at col Bear, but she was at The Daily Show
Speaker 1: and she worked there and she got that who knows.
Speaker 1: I still don't quite understand how she got it, because
Speaker 1: she got it from like working on like, you don't know, Jack,
Speaker 1: a game show on we just playing. She worked on
Speaker 1: that as like a video game, and especially in Chicago
Speaker 1: at that time, felt like you were nowhere, you know.
Speaker 1: And I was like, how did you get the Daily Show?
Speaker 1: And she's like, you know, there's certain types of a
Speaker 1: year that you submit. I'll tell you. When she told
Speaker 1: me when and it was like, I, you know, I
Speaker 1: and I got that job offer, but I also then
Speaker 1: got the job offer at Mad TV, and then I
Speaker 1: chose Mad TV, which I was like, okay, I did that,
Speaker 1: But it was also because I didn't I didn't fundamentally
Speaker 1: want to write sketch or jokes. I wanted to write
Speaker 1: longer narrative stuff, and I just like it was very
Speaker 1: hard decision. I had that like twenty four hours of
Speaker 1: like what am I going to do? And then uh yeah,
Speaker 1: and then I decided to go. It was also, this
Speaker 1: is how long ago it was, but it was right
Speaker 1: before it was before Daily Show was Union, right O.
Speaker 1: That's it was pre nine Leve and the Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it became because comedy schedual, but he became Union very
Speaker 1: soon thereafter. UM wow, yeah, yeah. I'm curious about what
Speaker 1: was the gap between you graduating college with a math
Speaker 1: degree and you thinking I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do this comedy thing. It's weird because so I, um,
Speaker 1: I got hired for something called Booms Chicago, which is
Speaker 1: a y was this close to going. I was like
Speaker 1: in a final call back for the thought that was
Speaker 1: like four years ago. Yes, I didn't know that I
Speaker 1: did experience like it was really good. It was the
Speaker 1: third year, so it wasn't even year round like now
Speaker 1: they like sign people for seven year long contract year thing.
Speaker 1: That was like a two year commit wrap. Mine was
Speaker 1: like seven months. Yeah, And it was like you fully
Speaker 1: had to go and hand out newspapers that like advertising
Speaker 1: the show, like you had to do two hours. It's
Speaker 1: called kranting for every show. But I was so bad
Speaker 1: at it that I ended up like doing bookkeeping, like
Speaker 1: can I do this? But I got it while I
Speaker 1: was still in college. Wow. Great, And it actually was
Speaker 1: the beginning of turning things around with my dad because
Speaker 1: things were really bad with my dad and I got this.
Speaker 1: I wasn't supposed to. We had this funked up agreement
Speaker 1: where I wasn't supposed to do any theater and it
Speaker 1: was but at this point and then I was in
Speaker 1: therapy and my therapist we'd onto therapy with my parents
Speaker 1: and me, and then it was just turned into therapy
Speaker 1: with me. So then it was like she kind of
Speaker 1: had this role of like she knew my parents, so
Speaker 1: I didn't have to spend the whole time defending them,
Speaker 1: if that make sense. And explaining what does. So we
Speaker 1: had this fun up agreement where I could live not
Speaker 1: at home as long as I did not do any theater,
Speaker 1: which included even taking like a class, and she was
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, they just want you to lie, like
Speaker 1: they've set up a situation where you lie. And I
Speaker 1: was like okay. So I performed under the ridiculous stage
Speaker 1: name of Sadie Cohen because I was like everyone and
Speaker 1: see like I needed a stage name. But I got
Speaker 1: this job and it meant like, oh shi it, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have to go to Amsterdam. I'm gonna have to
Speaker 1: leave college before I graduate um. And I remember calling
Speaker 1: my brothers ten years older than me and being like,
Speaker 1: how do I do this? Because what I was gonna
Speaker 1: do is just call and be like I got this,
Speaker 1: I'm going by and he was like, instead of asking
Speaker 1: about for permission, ask him what he thinks, okay, like,
Speaker 1: not ask for permission, I'm asking for advice. And so
Speaker 1: I did and it wasn't like can I do this?
Speaker 1: It was like, hey, this happened. I didn't get into
Speaker 1: the details of all the auditions that I should not
Speaker 1: have been doing and or what a selective process that
Speaker 1: is anywhere yeah, you couldn't understand that. It was well, again,
Speaker 1: this is how long ago it was. It was like
Speaker 1: when there was this book called Let's Go, like Let's
Speaker 1: go Europe, and they had just had a shout out
Speaker 1: and Let's go Europe. So it was like this like yeah,
Speaker 1: and so he was like okay, let me think, you know,
Speaker 1: and then he came to the conclusion like I should go.
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, well I'm going anyway. So who was
Speaker 1: there while you were there? Um? So this was before
Speaker 1: Seth Meyers like he was the year before he went
Speaker 1: the year after, I should say, so, um yeah, that's
Speaker 1: he's one of the ones they say, now you're like
Speaker 1: and Seth oh no, that he was the one who
Speaker 1: broke it open for like everybody. But but then coming
Speaker 1: back from that, you know, and also I started college
Speaker 1: young and I'm born in December, so I was there
Speaker 1: at like twenty so even though I'd like taken time
Speaker 1: off from school and graduated, like, it all ended up
Speaker 1: being okay. And then I got back and I got
Speaker 1: Second City within a couple of months because at that
Speaker 1: point they knew, like you had been real seasoned by
Speaker 1: you can just tell on the audition you can just
Speaker 1: tell that somebody's been on stage. Yeah, and uh so
Speaker 1: I really was really lucky. So I just came back
Speaker 1: and I just finished up school. I just had like
Speaker 1: a class. So I finished up and had a gig.
Speaker 1: But you finished up and graduated with a degree. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: great amazing. I mean not that like, no, I know,
Speaker 1: but I was, you know, I didn't have my school diploma,
Speaker 1: so it was important that I get a college diploma.
Speaker 1: So cool. I mean a math major University of Chicago
Speaker 1: would have a math degree from University of Chicago would
Speaker 1: have made my dad like, oh my god, I can't
Speaker 1: even tell you how much I understand all of that stuff.
Speaker 1: And like seeing it's a very similar. It is. It is,
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's it's it's it's intense. An immigrant
Speaker 1: father crying is like something that happened. Wouldn't you know
Speaker 1: how much they've sacrificed. And this is the thing, Okay,
Speaker 1: And just to really quickly loop it back to like
Speaker 1: the parental thing with the conversion to everything, I'm reading
Speaker 1: Joy Luck Club right now. It's all about mothers and
Speaker 1: daughters and forgiving each other, and and daughters forgiving their mothers,
Speaker 1: about wrongs and the other way around. It's it's the
Speaker 1: most beautiful thing just to like, not care, I don't like.
Speaker 1: I don't hold it against I truly don't hold it
Speaker 1: against them. And it takes a long time to get
Speaker 1: to that. It took me so long to get to
Speaker 1: that place because for a while I even wrote a
Speaker 1: terrible solo show about this. I did try to write
Speaker 1: this in some sort. It wasn't great. Was a reflection
Speaker 1: where it was too soon and it was just there
Speaker 1: were no jokes. It was not it wasn't it was
Speaker 1: it was part of a comedy solo show festival and
Speaker 1: it was just no jokes, devoid of jokes. But I
Speaker 1: would say there could have been more jokes. The hilarity
Speaker 1: would say it was still hilarious even though you had
Speaker 1: no joke. Still trusted me on stage I and so yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean at that point I hadn't forgiven them. And
Speaker 1: now it's like, oh, I read the door Luck Club
Speaker 1: and the audience can tell you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: The audience can tell when you've forgiven and they don't.
Speaker 1: It doesn't they're not they're uncomfortable. When uncomfortable, it's chili,
Speaker 1: they're chilled. Um, Tammy, I have to ask you before
Speaker 1: before you move on, I don't think and then I
Speaker 1: have to I have to have to ask you as well. Okay,
Speaker 1: I just I really want to know. So I just
Speaker 1: really want to know, Tammy, Um, what is like like say,
Speaker 1: you're uh, just writer, creator of your own show? What
Speaker 1: is that? Because I'm so curious to know this just
Speaker 1: having this such a diverse, granularly diverse sort of resume
Speaker 1: and not to like bring that back up, but like
Speaker 1: I am so curious to know, like what, like the
Speaker 1: Tammy Sager sort of yes, I don't know. And it's
Speaker 1: actually been like a real like sticking point. And I
Speaker 1: recently and I'll talk to you guys about this off
Speaker 1: pod because you're connected to it funnily enough. But like
Speaker 1: when I feel like I have no ideas, it is
Speaker 1: such a dark, dark feeling. But like right now, I
Speaker 1: just don't care about my story, do you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? And it's also just like I don't. I
Speaker 1: I just don't. I just don't. I just it's that
Speaker 1: time where I'm like I care about some other people's stories,
Speaker 1: and so I just I've been listening to something I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I think this is a show, but I don't know
Speaker 1: what my show is. I don't I'm not even necessarily asking,
Speaker 1: like what is the Tammy Sacre? No, No, I know
Speaker 1: what you mean. But even this where I'm like, this
Speaker 1: is a show that I feel like I could run
Speaker 1: with these and I'm inspired by these people, but like
Speaker 1: I don't even know. That's fine, that's that's it's okay.
Speaker 1: I mean, I yeah, I thought like during this break
Speaker 1: from from S and Al that I would have all
Speaker 1: these ideas and I would work on all this stuff
Speaker 1: and like whatever, like I have all these premises thought out,
Speaker 1: but like I didn't even feel compelled to, like pependo paper.
Speaker 1: Sometimes think the scary thing about like the past, like
Speaker 1: maybe even not year, like past like eight months. For me,
Speaker 1: it's just like I've always every year just always spit
Speaker 1: out so much creative stuff, like you know, like and
Speaker 1: like I'm always creating, and this year and this kind
Speaker 1: of like last eight months, I think because I have
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff personally going on. It's just so
Speaker 1: much going on up here, and I think that's why
Speaker 1: I need a therapist. I haven't created as much and
Speaker 1: that's got me in such like a funk. You need
Speaker 1: you need to feel the well yeah, and also start
Speaker 1: beating yourself up for like what your first saved production is.
Speaker 1: It's also like, as somebody who listens, I'm like, you're
Speaker 1: producing all the time. Well, that's another. The other thing.
Speaker 1: It's just like like we signed around the table a
Speaker 1: lot our acid trip and they're like, everyone, say one
Speaker 1: good thing that you're proud of over the past year.
Speaker 1: And they all went around and it was coming to
Speaker 1: me and I was like, oh my god, I have
Speaker 1: nothing to say. I don't know what to say. But
Speaker 1: it's not I have nothing to say and I'm started.
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, oh no. And then
Speaker 1: and then literally as I was there, I was like, wait,
Speaker 1: hold on a second, like this is classic and me
Speaker 1: like killing myself for no reason. But that's also why
Speaker 1: it's great that you're with people who love you, who
Speaker 1: know you could be like this and also this and
Speaker 1: also this it was an important Um yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: like something shout out to everyone. As much as I
Speaker 1: can go easy on yourself, y'all, we're all trying our
Speaker 1: best and two drugs and oh my god, I would
Speaker 1: never another thing. Is like I also really don't think
Speaker 1: that's like, I'm feel weird about saying this. I was
Speaker 1: just like, because we're so honest on this podcast, something
Speaker 1: like when when is too honest? Too honest? Um? But
Speaker 1: I'm like, you don't need to dr dugs to get
Speaker 1: their people, don't. Yeah? Oh no, And I fully, I
Speaker 1: don't you know what I mean? Like and actually like
Speaker 1: me getting high shut me down so hard that I
Speaker 1: think there's also something to that. Yeah. So no, I
Speaker 1: just think there's no blanket thing for anybody. It's very true. Well,
Speaker 1: what's your have to ask? Oh, here's what I have
Speaker 1: to ask. What was Katherine Heigl like? Oh my god, okay,
Speaker 1: So I wanted to tell you this, that this, and
Speaker 1: also the oh I have two things to tell you
Speaker 1: that and also about Tyra Banks. Um, Katherine Heigel was
Speaker 1: a fucking delight and that she was loved on set
Speaker 1: like whatever. I was there for a matter of hours,
Speaker 1: but like jud loved her like she was a delay.
Speaker 1: I this is the first time I had filmed every anything,
Speaker 1: So I fully yelled my lines because they were in
Speaker 1: the other room. So I was like, it's fine, just
Speaker 1: like she was like I felt like she was whispering
Speaker 1: to me. And then I was like fully projecting so
Speaker 1: they could hear me, and then jud like, man, he's
Speaker 1: just like just a little smaller, just a little smaller.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, he means just like whisper.
Speaker 1: Just like so then I just like concentrate on talking
Speaker 1: really quiet like that was reacting as just talking quietly.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Alec Weldwin like straight up just whispers.
Speaker 1: That's what Tina says to rights, and she's like he
Speaker 1: just like speaks at a low whisper and a low decimal.
Speaker 1: And then you're like, oh, but it's all there. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Like that's part of it too, where you're just like
Speaker 1: because especially as a life performer, you're like, okay, well
Speaker 1: I'm selling it, and it's like all those instincts just
Speaker 1: shut it down and just like trust that your eyes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll just be as hard because then you're just like
Speaker 1: I'm really big and like just big, you know. But
Speaker 1: then it's like if you just concentrate on talking really quietly,
Speaker 1: like it all just sort of happened it right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're just like it's weird. I got I got pulled in.
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, I know, it's so but it
Speaker 1: was like if you just told me like to be
Speaker 1: small or whatever. It'd be like, I can't. But if
Speaker 1: she's just like just so, she was. She was a delight.
Speaker 1: She was loved on set. She was loved on set.
Speaker 1: She was a delight. And then it was such a
Speaker 1: bummer when that it came out, because because you just
Speaker 1: talking about it, because it was also like it wasn't
Speaker 1: like a few months after it came out. She was like,
Speaker 1: it was like opening weekend. She was like, it was
Speaker 1: a bummer and all this. I was like, oh, dude,
Speaker 1: I mean, here's what I think. I think she could
Speaker 1: I think a bunch of things could have happened. She
Speaker 1: could have waited to maybe express that particular opinion, even
Speaker 1: if it was justified. I think everyone could have maybe
Speaker 1: read that whole article because there is context. And I'm
Speaker 1: so not with you on this. I think that I
Speaker 1: think that Judd and Seth were way too harsh on her.
Speaker 1: They were not though at the time, at the time
Speaker 1: they really handled it graciously. Remember about it. I think
Speaker 1: that I feel like people asked them about it, but
Speaker 1: also consider how much fucking work that they did. Like
Speaker 1: when you're directing and writing a movie and like somebo
Speaker 1: he was fully acted in like one and a half things,
Speaker 1: but like it's so much easier, do you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? And it's like she got to come in
Speaker 1: and be a star of a movie that the other
Speaker 1: star was like hustling and writing and all this work
Speaker 1: when the director is doing and he's also like throwing
Speaker 1: all this stuff out and then in editing for a
Speaker 1: million months it was their baby. She they have done
Speaker 1: so much water work and then she gets to be
Speaker 1: a fucking movie star off and and she wanted emmy
Speaker 1: basically for that movie. She went for that season of
Speaker 1: grays Anatomy. I'll tell you she work because the buzz
Speaker 1: had had been, the buzz had hit, and it was
Speaker 1: time to rework. She benefited from that movie in huge way.
Speaker 1: And then the thing, like the thing that really sells
Speaker 1: me of like, dude, this is on Catherine, not on
Speaker 1: them at all, is what she did to the writers
Speaker 1: of grades. You're right, that was very That was trash.
Speaker 1: It was trash. It was trash. But I'll say this,
Speaker 1: but were you the one who were like, I love
Speaker 1: that she took herself out of consideration? Well, I thought
Speaker 1: she was being I thought I thought she was doing
Speaker 1: what because when I was that was like, you don't
Speaker 1: have to a Nancy, you just do it, Just do it.
Speaker 1: You know, some people do do this where if they
Speaker 1: win the next season, they will remove themselves for from
Speaker 1: consideration of unceremonious especially on a show life for His Anatomy,
Speaker 1: where there's many other actresses that are deserving of and
Speaker 1: often that very same award. And so I thought to
Speaker 1: myself when it was announced that she was removing herself
Speaker 1: from consideration, I think she's being fine to Sandro and
Speaker 1: Shandra Wilson, who and at the time Kate Walsh, who
Speaker 1: really could have won that award and she could have
Speaker 1: come on that angle, she could have totally been absolutely
Speaker 1: to be nasty, had to be nasty. And you can
Speaker 1: tell that was when I was like, oh maybe now
Speaker 1: the knocked up thing does seem And also like who
Speaker 1: is she being nasty too? Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Because like also when she's who bust the us to
Speaker 1: write for her? Which sucks? Yeah, who bust her? Has
Speaker 1: like sixties a week when she's working what three days
Speaker 1: a week? And like I know the multi you know,
Speaker 1: the single cam life is hard. Writer's life is longer
Speaker 1: hours and you're not getting in you think for free,
Speaker 1: and you're not getting your photo taken and all that,
Speaker 1: and like to do that to them after they got
Speaker 1: you an Emmy. It's just so crazy. I did wasn't
Speaker 1: given the material to warrant denomination. And also it's like
Speaker 1: on a show like that where they're trying to write
Speaker 1: for like twelve cast members. Yeah, and all the things
Speaker 1: that they must have done, And like how much did
Speaker 1: she get from getting that? I mean, you know what,
Speaker 1: I mean, all the free stuff she's getting, all the
Speaker 1: more money she's getting, all of that. But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: she's nobody's been her bigger enemy than herself. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is why you need someone an insider like Tammy. That's
Speaker 1: why I wanted to ask the question, because I did, like, honestly,
Speaker 1: it's this thing that has followed her for so long.
Speaker 1: And I do think there is a sexist element to it,
Speaker 1: because I do think that men have done way worse
Speaker 1: and literally been nominated for Best Director at the Oscars
Speaker 1: after their indiscretions. But I will say it's hard for
Speaker 1: me though, because I'm just like, I don't want a
Speaker 1: female asshole to get away with it, just as got
Speaker 1: away with I think you're right, and I think assholes
Speaker 1: just shouldn't get away with it. I think I think
Speaker 1: if she is indeed confirmed an asshole, which you know,
Speaker 1: the things that she said are asshole ish. I mean
Speaker 1: she also does like nicing. She she organizes planes for
Speaker 1: like Chihuahua's you know what I mean, Like people contain multitudes,
Speaker 1: I think she contains. But I just as a writer,
Speaker 1: I would never want to write for her because I
Speaker 1: just feel like he was the asshole jumped out, and
Speaker 1: it jumps out after a year of work. If you
Speaker 1: jump out at the beginning, asshole jumped out the asshole.
Speaker 1: It wasn't jump out. It wasn't it. It wasn't a
Speaker 1: slow crawl. No, when we do we do a where
Speaker 1: that comes from? Right when when people say the so
Speaker 1: and so jumped out, that comes from on charm school
Speaker 1: saying to Pumpkin, Pumpkin, she said, your behavior this evening
Speaker 1: was horror like the horror jumped out and then you
Speaker 1: jump back in, but jumped out the horror jumped out.
Speaker 1: I mean true, really, that is this is what reality
Speaker 1: TV is made for, and the fact that it has
Speaker 1: had that lasting impact. Hue, I can't believe Monique won
Speaker 1: an Oscar for pressure so and not that moment, an
Speaker 1: oscar for the one reality show. Okay, time for I
Speaker 1: don't think so, honey. I really struggled with my I
Speaker 1: don't think so honey. I'm so much self hate went
Speaker 1: into it now because I'm telling you've listened to hundreds
Speaker 1: of them within like a matter of months, and then
Speaker 1: fully left it until but this morning. All the time,
Speaker 1: mine is barely written. So let's let's first. You should
Speaker 1: go first. I have something very Mine is potentially very dumb. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna go, is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so
Speaker 1: many's time starts now. I don't think so, honey. When
Speaker 1: people say, hey, it's me, no bitch, you better say
Speaker 1: your name. If it's the nineties, which is when a
Speaker 1: lot of people did this, Hey it's me. I just
Speaker 1: picked out the phone when I had your voice memorize
Speaker 1: oftentimes the hey it's mears. I don't think so, honey, then,
Speaker 1: because I don't know you. I don't know you. If
Speaker 1: I do, you can just say, hey, hey it's me.
Speaker 1: Who's me? Especially Hey it's me nowadays? Yeah, bitch, I
Speaker 1: know who you are. I have a cell phone that
Speaker 1: says your name on it. I don't need to hear
Speaker 1: Hey it's me. Just start the conversation. Everyone's name is
Speaker 1: very valuable. Hey it's me. No, you have a name
Speaker 1: that your mother gave you, and your mother and your
Speaker 1: father and whoever whomever named you. Spend a long time.
Speaker 1: Hey Tammy, it's Matt, and that is respectful to my parents.
Speaker 1: Hey it's me. Hey it's me. Also, I don't like
Speaker 1: the cadence of it, Hey it's me. Like it's just like, okay,
Speaker 1: this is too familiar, especially if maybe if we just
Speaker 1: got off the phone and then I got disconnected and
Speaker 1: then you come back, then hey it's me. Otherwise I
Speaker 1: don't think so. And that's one minute, so masterfull down
Speaker 1: to the second. Would you ever call me and then
Speaker 1: say hey, it's me and I'd be like hey, and
Speaker 1: I just get right and you get right into it.
Speaker 1: But the next why you're worth it? So this is
Speaker 1: this is an interesting thing. So for people you do know,
Speaker 1: who you are familiar with, you would rather they just
Speaker 1: cut to the chase. But for people you don't know you,
Speaker 1: they have to introduce themselves to you. Yes, interesting, nothing
Speaker 1: in between. Hey it's me. Hey, it's me is the
Speaker 1: in between it, and you don't want that liminal space anywhere.
Speaker 1: It's here's where, here's where, Hey, it's me rears its
Speaker 1: head the most in voicemails. Sure, it's like I know, hey,
Speaker 1: it's me, but here's that I know nowadays and then hey,
Speaker 1: it's me back in the day when you didn't necessarily
Speaker 1: know what. I don't always have people's I'm such a
Speaker 1: procrastinator that I don't always put people's phone numbers in
Speaker 1: even like it takes one second, So I sometimes just
Speaker 1: have a phone number. Well, and that's why, that's why
Speaker 1: you need to tell yeah, don't don't, just don't. Hey
Speaker 1: it's me is never okay, never, okay, absolutely, thank you, Matt.
Speaker 1: That was that was inspired. Okay, Um, I have one
Speaker 1: very loose, all right, it's very loose, very loose, the
Speaker 1: Bowen Yang story, and it's time starts now, I don't
Speaker 1: think so, honey. Getting motherfucking stamps in New York City.
Speaker 1: I was trying to mail in my absentee ballot for
Speaker 1: Colorado Sweetie yesterday, and it took me seven different locations
Speaker 1: to finally pick up a sheet of stamps. Here's here's
Speaker 1: the roundown the post office on Atlantic Avenue, right by
Speaker 1: my apartment. The line was agreed. Just I said, no,
Speaker 1: I don't have the time for this. Went to three
Speaker 1: different bodegos. They all said no, we don't. Went to
Speaker 1: three different chain of pharmacies. Your CBS is your Dwayne reads,
Speaker 1: your wall queens. None of them had stamps. And yet
Speaker 1: the the USPS website said falsely claims that they do.
Speaker 1: And yeah, and I was allied to by the Internet,
Speaker 1: which I mean nowadays at hack when the Internet lies
Speaker 1: to you, and two on the nose. So finally I
Speaker 1: go into Manhanan go to the post office on Varick
Speaker 1: and thank goodness, the lovely gentleman there gave me a
Speaker 1: sheet of stamps. And this is not um. The Postal
Speaker 1: Services wonderful. They were the first line of defense for
Speaker 1: all these explosives that went out to all these democratic leaders.
Speaker 1: And that's one moment. Oh God, so there you go.
Speaker 1: So I love it. I love a fifty five second negative.
Speaker 1: I don't think a second, but thank you. Hear to
Speaker 1: my heroes, the Postal Service. But else the post office
Speaker 1: they usually like a vending machine stand in New York City.
Speaker 1: I saw, I saw nary a vending machine in these
Speaker 1: post offices. But what can we say, Tammy? So I
Speaker 1: wrote something not psyched about it felt like I never
Speaker 1: thought it went no stop that I know what's going
Speaker 1: to be Brilliant's gonna No, it's not it tried too hard, no, no, whatever,
Speaker 1: whatever times whenever people say whatever, never read enough moment
Speaker 1: when we always want more. I don't think some honey
Speaker 1: is a low ceiling high floor for success. This is
Speaker 1: this is Tammy Sagers. I don't think so honey kind
Speaker 1: of starts now, I don't think so honey me ending
Speaker 1: up in the shittiest of all timelines, where the Cubs
Speaker 1: one was the first time a simulator getting lazy flipping
Speaker 1: some switches it never should have been flipped. Feeling the
Speaker 1: outer edges of the Truman Show glitches just in the
Speaker 1: names of who we are dealing with, like the Republican
Speaker 1: senators willing to once in a while stand up. His
Speaker 1: name is Jeff Flake up, seriously Flake and he's not
Speaker 1: even gonna bother running again, and flakes Ivana and ivunk
Speaker 1: cup okay, and the feeling like there are no repercussions
Speaker 1: for any misbehavior except for the arbitrary swats of the universe,
Speaker 1: fly swatter that somehow managed to splatter al Franken's body
Speaker 1: against the walls of the US Senate. Phil Clinton is
Speaker 1: still doing a book tour. No one that cares, and
Speaker 1: nobody blinks. And I when number forty five doesn't decry
Speaker 1: the murder of a Saudi journalist, but instead that was
Speaker 1: the worst cover up ever, And you can feel his outrageous.
Speaker 1: If only had been a better cover up, he could
Speaker 1: have looked the other way. He would have screamed fake news,
Speaker 1: which honestly, remember when that was the problem Hillary was
Speaker 1: facing for the election. It's like a rapist taking the
Speaker 1: mantle of victim, put from the rape to no. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's exactly what happened. And I don't think so, honey,
Speaker 1: When we're accepting Supreme Court justice saying he was a
Speaker 1: virgin for years, when the allegation was not penetration but
Speaker 1: almost choking arc as he left, they have fumbled and
Speaker 1: trying his stuff is drunk and privileged, young rape dick
Speaker 1: and failed. She's seen as a victim. And I don't
Speaker 1: think so, honey. I don't think so, honey. And four
Speaker 1: change seconds and every second was essential that was and
Speaker 1: can I tell you something that was the most words
Speaker 1: permitted of any I don't think so, honey, And that
Speaker 1: puts you in the Guinness Book of World Record and
Speaker 1: the most holistic all covered everything that was that is
Speaker 1: happening every ill insisting. I don't think so, honey. We
Speaker 1: need for today. But I'm also like, what is happening
Speaker 1: in my other timeline? Oh? In your other timeline? Do
Speaker 1: you think it's much more positive? Yeah? But I also
Speaker 1: feel like I'm doing a better job of things, do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? In the other timeline. Yeah?
Speaker 1: I feel like my other timeline me is just like
Speaker 1: a lot healthier. Yeah. You just just like making harder
Speaker 1: choices that are ultimately better, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: But nothing I do, nothing's preventing you from from doing that, now,
Speaker 1: you know, except my laziness stuff. That's what it is.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, this is Sadie Cohen. This is Sadie Cohen.
Speaker 1: I can't believe we had Sadie Cohen on the show
Speaker 1: Second Boom, Chicago, Second City Legend. Sadie Cohen and writer
Speaker 1: for Every Perfect Television show, Tammy Segrete. This is this
Speaker 1: was so great and I'm this like truly like I had.
Speaker 1: I was so excited for this episode and just tears
Speaker 1: were totally absolutely thanks you guys. UM, please watch Oranges
Speaker 1: the New Black UM this upcoming season, final season. UM,
Speaker 1: and we loved Tammy so much with the song wh
Speaker 1: Stars of a Thousand Spotlights all the song Shine of
Speaker 1: the Last Guy. We'll never be enough, never been enough,
Speaker 1: never never got. This has been a Forever Dog production
Speaker 1: executive produced by Brett Bohum, Joe Silio, and Alex Ramsey.
Speaker 1: For more original podcasts, please visit Forever Dog Podcasts dot
Speaker 1: com and subscribe to our shows on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Keep up with the
Speaker 1: latest Forever Dog news by following us on Twitter and
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