Speaker 1: This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hello, everyone, welcome to the Almost Podcast. Today we have
Speaker 2: the cast the hosts of Deer Shandy. That would be
Speaker 2: Oh my god, did you change? Did she your last name?
Speaker 2: Did you me?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 5: Why does it say Charlie Levine?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: Because I was just wondering because I was like, going
Speaker 2: to introduce you to and I was like, I don't
Speaker 2: know what her what her last name is?
Speaker 4: Right now? I could not do Charlene Levine Charlie.
Speaker 2: We have Andy Levine and Charlene joined joining us. Guys.
Speaker 2: You guys may know Charlene if you if you haven't
Speaker 2: listened to Deer Shandy. It's a relationship podcast. It's so
Speaker 2: much fun. I've been a part of it. It's great.
Speaker 2: But Charlene was part of wanm. Pablo season, a very
Speaker 2: memorable cast member as somebody who has only appeared on
Speaker 2: one season in the Bachelor franchise and is yet still
Speaker 2: so memorable eleven years later.
Speaker 4: Oh God, don't say that. It's been so.
Speaker 5: Long and I was possible just make it a decade.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's been ten years since mine aired, and
Speaker 2: there was there's was before.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, I'm.
Speaker 5: Still talking about it and it's still going. We're still going.
Speaker 2: Charlene Levine, I don't know, Charlene. I think Charlene Levin
Speaker 2: might big cube.
Speaker 5: It might. It might have been a mess, yeah, Charlene
Speaker 5: san Levine.
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 2: We were talking to them about how they just look as
Speaker 2: if the past eleven years hasn't happened. We think that
Speaker 2: they drink baby blood or something like that. Along with
Speaker 2: Nick viol who they officiated his wedding last year. So
Speaker 2: there's some coup here, some coup about looking fifteen years younger.
Speaker 5: He gave us the potions bottle to.
Speaker 4: That, because we can't take compliments. Is that you are
Speaker 4: also part of the secret society because you were also
Speaker 4: at that wedding.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just haven't been invited into the secrets of
Speaker 3: the coup. Yeah, that society yet. We've talked about it before.
Speaker 3: But let's just remind everybody you guys did a great
Speaker 3: job officiating that wedding.
Speaker 5: Thanks.
Speaker 2: That's so nice to a joint officiating too.
Speaker 4: Thanks saying that that was a weeper. Let me tell
Speaker 4: you that was a high stress situation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did my cousins, which is such an honor.
Speaker 3: But that's the reason it's so stressful, because it's such
Speaker 3: an honor and no matter what you do, like preparing
Speaker 3: for that, you're like, I'm I'm participating in the I
Speaker 3: have the ability to not make don't give yourselves that credit,
Speaker 3: but ruined, ruin the best day of their life. Yes,
Speaker 3: that's like my only option. I either do fine and
Speaker 3: nobody remembers it, or I ruin it and everybody talks
Speaker 3: about it.
Speaker 5: The best you can do is no one remembers it poorly.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, anything below that you've failed.
Speaker 3: I agree. I totally agree. Well we're here today because, well,
Speaker 3: you guys do have a very very fun podcast. As
Speaker 3: Ashley mentioned, you're talking about relationships. You're sharing insights. I
Speaker 3: don't want to say advice because that makes it sound
Speaker 3: like you guys think you know it all. You don't.
Speaker 3: You listen to people's stories. Well, you give insights into
Speaker 3: your situation and others and things you've learned along the way.
Speaker 4: So we also talk reality TV.
Speaker 3: Oh we do, And that's right and somehow and I'm
Speaker 3: gonna just make a general statement. You tell me if
Speaker 3: I'm completely off. Okay, you don't seem like a reality
Speaker 3: television person to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know they're way too highbrow for that.
Speaker 3: I feel like, yeah, I just get this image of
Speaker 3: my blast intellectuals. You would not do this.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: And so my question, I guess from that is like
Speaker 3: why or am I wrong?
Speaker 5: Okay, you're right, but I've married into the franchise, so
Speaker 5: in part I have no choice. But in reality, I
Speaker 5: actually that despite how silly it all is, there's a
Speaker 5: lot of meat to analyze in reality TV from a
Speaker 5: relationship perspective, psychological perspective. Even though some people may go
Speaker 5: on the show now with the intention of gaining whatever
Speaker 5: you want to call it, fame, Instagram fame, whatever it is,
Speaker 5: now I think there becomes a no choice boundary where
Speaker 5: they are now in the machine, They're in the experiment,
Speaker 5: and they are part of this experience that they no
Speaker 5: longer have control over. And that's interesting to analyze from
Speaker 5: a psychological perspective. I would never have watched these shows
Speaker 5: had it not been for Charlene. But I must thank
Speaker 5: Charlene for bringing me into the fold. Now I've become
Speaker 5: an ambassador of this amazing sphere of human life.
Speaker 3: Has amazing billion dollar ip that seems to never go away.
Speaker 3: All right, Charlie, what were you.
Speaker 5: Going to say?
Speaker 4: Honestly, it's a really fun outlet, especially for someone like
Speaker 4: it Andy, who has a big personality and just never
Speaker 4: did anything with it and is super analytical and like
Speaker 4: just really can read interpersonal dynamics. And I think you
Speaker 4: guys know it's like we all went on this show.
Speaker 4: It's like you want a little something more out of life,
Speaker 4: and you're not really sure what it is, and who
Speaker 4: knows if the right thing to do was go on
Speaker 4: the Bachelor or become the Bachelor. But what it can
Speaker 4: do is sort of let you flex a muscle that
Speaker 4: maybe you've never flexed before. And that's been really fun
Speaker 4: with Andy, Like in the Pandemic, that's when I had
Speaker 4: the time. I was like, let's finally do it, let's
Speaker 4: be podcasters, And it was so fun to see him,
Speaker 4: you know, just sort of spread his wings in this
Speaker 4: department and be the person that I know he is,
Speaker 4: but like get to share that with everyone. It's really fun,
Speaker 4: Like it's very validating for me. It's basically a big
Speaker 4: I told you so for me because he's so popular
Speaker 4: and I'm like, that's all.
Speaker 5: It is this and I told you so.
Speaker 2: Fun I married of reality star. Basically, he is the
Speaker 2: personality that he could have been one exactly.
Speaker 5: I don't want to take that. I'm thinking about it.
Speaker 4: Any member of this.
Speaker 2: There's a couple of honorary members, for sure. I would
Speaker 2: say that like Hayley. You know, Beca's girlfriend is definitely
Speaker 2: an honorary member, as is tany Rad and I saw
Speaker 2: him this weekend on a wedding. But yeah, there's definitely honoraries.
Speaker 2: And I feel like Andy, you are one jes for sure. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: Am I missing anyone else? Obvious?
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 3: But talk about somebody that would never want to be
Speaker 3: on television Jess my wife.
Speaker 2: Yeah that is true. Okay, guys, so you talk highly
Speaker 2: about you know, the Bachelor, Andy, You've enjoyed it for
Speaker 2: the most part. Have you enjoyed this season? Because this
Speaker 2: is the first season that I've said publicly on this podcast,
Speaker 2: I go, guys, if it weren't for this podcast, I
Speaker 2: wouldn't be watching it.
Speaker 3: We I mean, we're with you on that.
Speaker 5: I will say that I have enjoyed this season to
Speaker 5: make fun of it more than any previous season. And
Speaker 5: I always enjoy making fun of the seasons.
Speaker 2: What have you enjoyed making fun of.
Speaker 5: The most Oh my god, are you really putting me
Speaker 5: on the spot. There's so many teachers from.
Speaker 4: All the amazing woman.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2: I haven't been sure if I should say anything, especially
Speaker 2: not on air, feeling I could say it like Ben,
Speaker 2: I don't know, Ben Hannah. He does say the amazing
Speaker 2: woman in the plural meaning plural.
Speaker 4: But apparently it's not specific to grant what we're learning.
Speaker 2: The girls are doing it too, Juliana doesn't.
Speaker 5: I think even Jesse dropped a couple.
Speaker 3: You guys.
Speaker 2: It's like the whole theme of the season as everybody
Speaker 2: forgot the word women. Yes, the entire cast.
Speaker 5: I don't even know which ones which anymore. I seriously,
Speaker 5: I've lost track.
Speaker 3: There was a there was a moment when I was
Speaker 3: the lead I forget. I think I was like I
Speaker 3: would say this is hilarious. I'd walk into a room
Speaker 3: and be like ladies, and then at some point, like
Speaker 3: one of the producers pulled me aside and they're like,
Speaker 3: call them women, it's more respectful, And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I wasn't like meaning this in a a way of disrespect.
Speaker 3: I just like didn't know how to refer to a
Speaker 3: group of thirty people sitting in the room, like it
Speaker 3: gets a little nerve wracking to walk into a room.
Speaker 3: So I was just like, ladies, I'm here, and uh, that.
Speaker 2: Seems more natural, though, Yes, what else are you supposed
Speaker 2: to say?
Speaker 4: Hello?
Speaker 3: Hello women? Hello women? No? They literally like, we're like
Speaker 3: you need to call them women every moment in any interview,
Speaker 3: anytime you confront them like women, And I'm like, that
Speaker 3: just seems like almost like I don't know why. Maybe
Speaker 3: it is more respectful, but to me it felt so formal,
Speaker 3: and the formality of it made it feel the meaning
Speaker 3: like I thought we were all friends. Like that was
Speaker 3: maybe my biggest mistake as a lead was I just
Speaker 3: thought we were all doing this thing together and figure
Speaker 3: out how it played out. I didn't want to make
Speaker 3: it too formal, but it was like, hello women, my
Speaker 3: name is Ben.
Speaker 2: I'm thirty seven, and I am just thinking that it
Speaker 2: could be appropriate to call me a woman at thirty seven.
Speaker 2: At twenty six, I was certainly not a woman. I
Speaker 2: would feel awkward if you had call me a woman
Speaker 2: at twenty six.
Speaker 5: I totally agree. There there came a point I don't
Speaker 5: remember what year it was where suddenly I felt weird
Speaker 5: saying the word lady or woman, and I feel like
Speaker 5: women when I was younger wanted to be called girls
Speaker 5: and no one wanted to be called a lady. But
Speaker 5: then lady was okay, and then women became not okay,
Speaker 5: and now women's okay. I cannot keep track. I literally
Speaker 5: every time I say I have to say the word,
Speaker 5: whether whatever word it is, I get nervous. And I
Speaker 5: was like, Okay, you can do this. Remember what's the
Speaker 5: word you call a person with a vagina. You can
Speaker 5: do this, and I always get it wrong. I'm like, Nope,
Speaker 5: you should have said lady. That was a lady time,
Speaker 5: it was a woman time. It's craziness.
Speaker 4: I'm still correcting. That's very amusing. Yeah, but what's funny
Speaker 4: about this, Ben Higgins, is that I don't think anyone
Speaker 4: would argue with me and saying you were one of
Speaker 4: the most respectful bachelors. Yeah, in this franchise's history known
Speaker 4: for it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was good training then, because they made it
Speaker 3: look like that. They said call them women, not ladies,
Speaker 3: and everybody watching was like, he's so respectful. I'm like,
Speaker 3: I'm just trying not to mess up here, Like I'm
Speaker 3: just trying my best. But thank you for that. I hope,
Speaker 3: I hope that's the like, if that's the memory people have,
Speaker 3: then this was all worth it for me.
Speaker 4: You know, Ben Higgins, I can't call him. Ben's Ben Higgins.
Speaker 4: You're a moment in time like I will meet we
Speaker 4: will meet Mark, Yes, Like we'll meet people who I
Speaker 4: want to listen to the podcast and they won't even
Speaker 4: know I was on the show. And it's like, when
Speaker 4: did you start watching? It's like Ben Higgins season, this
Speaker 4: happened just a week ago. Like it's like you are
Speaker 4: like the Millennium.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then the follow up is and I didn't
Speaker 3: watch a season after that because I hate that show.
Speaker 3: The the interesting thing so like, this is a good
Speaker 3: point and it's going to transition to me into a
Speaker 3: question that I think maybe the two of you will
Speaker 3: relate with. You know, when we just had our daughter,
Speaker 3: I was talking to a lot of people who were
Speaker 3: dads and I was like, I don't necessarily know how
Speaker 3: to be a dad to a daughter. And they said this,
Speaker 3: They said, you are there to represent what a man
Speaker 3: should be to her and let her mom like do
Speaker 3: the rest, and so I do. Charlene hear you. And
Speaker 3: if that is a memory of the time that I
Speaker 3: was given the opportunity to be on the show that
Speaker 3: people say, Hey, that's how I want a guy to
Speaker 3: treat my daughter, then this is all good. Like then, like,
Speaker 3: I feel like peaceful about that and really excited about
Speaker 3: that because I hope I can now show my daughter
Speaker 3: how a man should treat a woman. So I hear that,
Speaker 3: and that means a lot to me. Thank you for
Speaker 3: saying that. That's what my point was there.
Speaker 4: Oh that's so sweet and also the most Ben Higgins response.
Speaker 2: Oh, I am like geeking out over the fact that
Speaker 2: you guys made fun of Grant for women, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: then is like, this is what women mean to me.
Speaker 3: Come on. So here's my frustration with this season. We've
Speaker 3: been like we wanted Grant to succeed one. I thought
Speaker 3: he was a weird choice strictly from the fact that
Speaker 3: we didn't know him. I thought he was set up
Speaker 3: from failure from the beginning, no matter who he was
Speaker 3: or what he would do, because he was coming into
Speaker 3: it as such a an underdog and somebody that we
Speaker 3: didn't understand from his season, we didn't get to know,
Speaker 3: we didn't get to root for or like share tears with,
Speaker 3: So he just kind of got chosen. And I always
Speaker 3: think that's a weird choice when they choose somebody that
Speaker 3: really has no backstory on the show, if they're going
Speaker 3: to choose somebody from the show. So the hope is, Okay,
Speaker 3: let's get to know Grant. That was a big wish
Speaker 3: of ours at the Almost Famous podcast, we want to
Speaker 3: get to know Grant. I will say, we're almost done
Speaker 3: with this season. We have analyzed, we have made fun of,
Speaker 3: we have celebrated, we have talked about this show for
Speaker 3: ten weeks. Whatever it is, I don't know Grant, Like
Speaker 3: I still don't know the guy. And I don't want
Speaker 3: to say that's his fault because I don't know if
Speaker 3: that's his fault. But I will say at some level
Speaker 3: it's somebody's fault, the show's his or whatever that I
Speaker 3: don't I don't necessarily understand him, and I typically don't
Speaker 3: feel that way. Even with the Clayton's of the world,
Speaker 3: I felt like I could get a pretty good judge
Speaker 3: of what he was after, even though, like you know,
Speaker 3: the show didn't nexts toy pop for anybody. I was like,
Speaker 3: I think I get what this guy's after or what
Speaker 3: he's about. And I don't know if it's going to work.
Speaker 4: Long term, but at least I know.
Speaker 3: But at least I know, and so I'll watch that
Speaker 3: play out. I don't know Grant. I watch him every
Speaker 3: week almost as a stranger, and I want to know
Speaker 3: if you all feel the same way.
Speaker 4: Company.
Speaker 5: This is an echo chamber. I mean we have said
Speaker 5: the whole season, who is this guy? Where is Grant Ellis?
Speaker 5: Show us Grant Ellis. He doesn't even like when he
Speaker 5: has an opportunity to make a choice, he doesn't even
Speaker 5: make the choice. It's like, why did he give Carolina
Speaker 5: mixed signals when she pulled him aside? Or he pulled
Speaker 5: her aside even though she's her Why did you keep
Speaker 5: her by her demeanor?
Speaker 4: As he later said it women.
Speaker 5: She practically begged. She's like, look, I'm here. I'm saying,
Speaker 5: if you want to send me home, go for it.
Speaker 5: I get it.
Speaker 4: Connection.
Speaker 5: I have no hard feelings. And he's like, no, I
Speaker 5: really have strong feelings for you. I want you to
Speaker 5: stick around. We got a good thing here, and then goodbye.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and That's just one example. We've had, well a
Speaker 4: beef I've had all season, and we really like Grant
Speaker 4: as what he seems to be as a person.
Speaker 3: I'm sure he's a great time. I have nothing, but
Speaker 3: but I just don't know him exactly.
Speaker 4: You've been saying that he's just like we don't know
Speaker 4: him any better than we did on GEN season, Like
Speaker 4: even the lone wolf thing, like we'd learned that on
Speaker 4: GEN season. I still feel like we've heard the same backstory,
Speaker 4: Like it hasn't gone deeper. And I don't know if
Speaker 4: it's him being kind of camera shy or what, but
Speaker 4: something I have felt has been lacking is a sense
Speaker 4: of conviction in what he wants to do. It doesn't
Speaker 4: matter what girls have said about whomever. It's like he's
Speaker 4: kind of running around with a chicken with its head
Speaker 4: cut off, like, oh, she said that, he said she
Speaker 4: said that, and like it's sort of like I don't
Speaker 4: have a sense. And I think that's even reflected in
Speaker 4: the fact that he doesn't even know who he's going
Speaker 4: to pick between the final two. And I know that's
Speaker 4: being teased and sometimes that's an exaggeration, but I really
Speaker 4: do see it, like I think that he doesn't have
Speaker 4: that like huh, that gut piece about the women, about
Speaker 4: who he likes best, and I think that's being reflected
Speaker 4: in his choices and how he It's just sort of
Speaker 4: feels kind of like, kind of like wishy washy. I
Speaker 4: don't really have a sense who he is.
Speaker 5: It feels like he's playing the role and he's not
Speaker 5: actually the person anymore. It just feels like he's saying
Speaker 5: what he thinks he's supposed to say and doing what
Speaker 5: he thinks he's supposed to do. I don't get the
Speaker 5: feeling he really even wants to be there, And for
Speaker 5: that reason, I don't really have a lot of faith
Speaker 5: in whoever he picks. If he picks anyone, it's going
Speaker 5: to last.
Speaker 4: I don't think he's really sincere. I hope it works.
Speaker 5: I think he's sincere, but not for somebody's meeting on
Speaker 5: this show.
Speaker 2: I think that if you were to like kind of
Speaker 2: zoom away from this, I think the answer is that
Speaker 2: he doesn't feel that strongly about any of them. No,
Speaker 2: even though he says I love you to Letia this week.
Speaker 3: I would argue with all this, I think he was
Speaker 3: set up for failure, just like so many past leads
Speaker 3: have been set up for failure. I've told Ashley this.
Speaker 3: When it came to my time on the show, it
Speaker 3: was so good until the previews came out and they
Speaker 3: let me watch it while we were filming, and it
Speaker 3: called me the perfect bin and that destroyed me. If
Speaker 3: I could tell you the week it happened, and my
Speaker 3: confidence was shot and my fear levels went up, and
Speaker 3: I was like, this is I'm set up for failure.
Speaker 3: You call me the perfect beIN. I can't live up
Speaker 3: to that. That's not who I am, and that's not
Speaker 3: reflective of who I want to be known as. I'm
Speaker 3: not that guy, and if that's how you're gonna market me,
Speaker 3: then I'm going to fail you in that. In that pursuit,
Speaker 3: I would say the same thing happened to Grant. Grant
Speaker 3: was promoted as this amazingly handsome guy, so good looking,
Speaker 3: the best looking bachelor we've ever had, which isn't wrong,
Speaker 3: But think about how he's hearing that I'm handsome. That's
Speaker 3: what you got for me. You've chosen me as the
Speaker 3: Bachelor because I'm handsome, and so as a result, I
Speaker 3: think his confidence is so low. I don't think he's
Speaker 3: I don't think he has the conviction because I don't
Speaker 3: think the show did a good job of preparing him
Speaker 3: with you know who you are, Grant, you're somebody that
Speaker 3: is confident, that is strong, that knows what he wants,
Speaker 3: that has the opportunity to pursue a relationship here from
Speaker 3: the show with thirty women, and you get this amazing
Speaker 3: opportunity to date all of them and figure out what
Speaker 3: you want. And it's okay to figure out what you want,
Speaker 3: and you can send people home and they're gonna be
Speaker 3: just fine. They're gonna be sad and maybe a little
Speaker 3: mad at you, they're gonna be just fine and hurt, yes,
Speaker 3: and he the show needed to do a better job
Speaker 3: being like hurt him, like yeah for a second. And
Speaker 3: then they're going to get an Instagram following and they're
Speaker 3: going to start dating somebody. It's way more famous than
Speaker 3: you anyways, and it's going to be fine.
Speaker 2: Or we could be really honest and just say that
Speaker 2: he probably didn't have the personality to conduct the show.
Speaker 5: I don't see what's wrong with.
Speaker 2: That, and which is totally fine, but that's on them
Speaker 2: for picking somebody who couldn't command the show.
Speaker 4: Can it be d all of the above?
Speaker 5: It's all of the above. But I agree with you Ashley.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's like there has to be a certain
Speaker 5: type of person to be the Bachelor. You can't just say, oh,
Speaker 5: this guy was a nice guy in the season and
Speaker 5: he's tall and good looking, let's throw him in the role.
Speaker 5: You have to have a certain type of personality. And
Speaker 5: I think Grant, honestly, in real life and human life,
Speaker 5: is probably a very cool, affable guy you want to
Speaker 5: hang out with. But on TV it doesn't work. And
Speaker 5: I blame I blame production, I blame casting, and you know,
Speaker 5: to some degree as a third party, I do blame
Speaker 5: Grant for just not taking a standard being like I'm
Speaker 5: not going to just total line. I'm going to actually
Speaker 5: do something here.
Speaker 4: I also think Ben is onto something by saying that
Speaker 4: he was set up for failure. You know, we only
Speaker 4: where we're down two episodes this season versus past season.
Speaker 4: You know, so right off the bat, we're not getting
Speaker 4: to know people as well. And I feel that the
Speaker 4: season itself, and you know, it could be like it's
Speaker 4: Chicken or ragg I don't know if it's because Grant
Speaker 4: is the way he is that the season is like this,
Speaker 4: or Grant is being that way because the season is
Speaker 4: the way it is. But we can all agree that
Speaker 4: this season feels rote. It feels derivative. It feels like
Speaker 4: I feel like I'm watching like a parody of itself,
Speaker 4: except a bad one. Like it's like even the hometowns, Like,
Speaker 4: I was like, what are we even watching? This could
Speaker 4: have been from ten years ago, but at least they
Speaker 4: were working with what they had, with the personalities they had.
Speaker 4: This just feels like they're trying to like squeeze everything
Speaker 4: into the same formula we know, instead of just like
Speaker 4: letting it be and letting us watch what happens. It
Speaker 4: doesn't feel like reality TV. It feels almost semi scripted.
Speaker 4: Like the scenes with Zoe to me feel like like
Speaker 4: almost scripted. And sometimes Grant's ims it feels like he's
Speaker 4: like reading off a teleprophone.
Speaker 5: And that's another thing. What was Zoe doing there? Why
Speaker 5: was she? Why was she in fantasy Suites?
Speaker 2: Because he obviously didn't like anybody enough, so he had
Speaker 2: to pick somebody to fill that spot.
Speaker 5: What about Carolina and Alex? What happened there?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well that's that's an weird thing. We've had an
Speaker 2: editing issue over the past couple of season. Maybe maybe
Speaker 2: not a little bit, maybe with Joey's, but like Joey's
Speaker 2: season had so many characters and he was so charming
Speaker 2: that they can get away with it. This is like
Speaker 2: showing a whole bunch of flaws in storytelling.
Speaker 4: Oh heavy flawsaw. Like to me, the Alex thing is
Speaker 4: a great example. She's you know, we all we know
Speaker 4: that that contestant exists, the one who gets the first impression.
Speaker 4: Rose gets an early first date, she's the one to
Speaker 4: be and then it's like it fizzles. But at least
Speaker 4: talk about how it fizzled. Women tell all, don't be like,
Speaker 4: oh what happened? Here are the answers. And then it's
Speaker 4: just like, oh, the drama caught up with you.
Speaker 5: How does drama catch up with someone unrelated to drama?
Speaker 5: In Roman?
Speaker 4: Just give one im where it's like I don't really
Speaker 4: know what happened, Like, yeah, Alex had just sort of
Speaker 4: fell behind it. We didn't even get that she just
Speaker 4: suddenly got sent home. It's like we're missing crucial pieces.
Speaker 5: Also, also Night one, I don't even remember her name.
Speaker 5: I think was was it Ashley? Alicia Alisha, what happened there?
Speaker 4: The weirdest thing.
Speaker 3: They're kissing, and then the next week she's gone, gone,
Speaker 3: no explanation, zero, she doesn't even know we talked to her.
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, that's not surprising.
Speaker 2: It actually made less sense after talking to her, really,
Speaker 2: because she said so good. Yeah, she said that the
Speaker 2: conversation that was aired was like the lesser of them all,
Speaker 2: Like I.
Speaker 3: Don't get it. I mean, I think it has been
Speaker 3: I think as viewers of the show, so we're talking
Speaker 3: about this now as fans of the show, I think
Speaker 3: anytime we sit there and we feel like we can't
Speaker 3: root for, dive into. I mean, there are characters that
Speaker 3: I strictly, very vividly remember from ten years ago, who
Speaker 3: I was in it with each episode, right, I want
Speaker 3: to see what they have to say here. I want
Speaker 3: to see how they confront this issue. I'm going to
Speaker 3: be sad when they leave. And I was sad when
Speaker 3: they left or I was happy when they would stay.
Speaker 3: That element of the show has disappeared because I think
Speaker 3: there were missing. We're missing those minor moments that help
Speaker 3: people make sense. There's a moment during Gens season with
Speaker 3: Grant and I brought it up back then, and it
Speaker 3: was my I don't know why, I could be crazy,
Speaker 3: but it was my concern for him becoming the Bachelor.
Speaker 3: It was a moment that was celebrated by so many
Speaker 3: and I think it because it was a unique moment
Speaker 3: during that season. He asked Jenna question. He says, I
Speaker 3: just want to know your biggest fears? What are your
Speaker 3: biggest fears? And people are like that he's so sweet
Speaker 3: and sensitive. I'm like, I'm sure he is. I'm not
Speaker 3: taking that away from him, But that's such a simple question, Like,
Speaker 3: that's a question you asked when you were lacking confidence
Speaker 3: to know what to ask. In the moment, you can
Speaker 3: ask that a thousand different ways. Yeah, and you can
Speaker 3: have the patience to explore the fears and dig into him.
Speaker 3: You just don't come out on a date and say,
Speaker 3: what are your biggest fears? That's a very generic question
Speaker 3: to me.
Speaker 5: Well, yes, it's an interview question.
Speaker 3: It's an interview question. Yeah, you're exactly right, and so
Speaker 3: it's very so at that moment, I said, I'm worried
Speaker 3: about this guy when it comes to his desire to
Speaker 3: explore these things in a way that is real and
Speaker 3: not a producer. When he said it sounds like he
Speaker 3: was sitting with the producer and he's like, I don't
Speaker 3: know what to ask her, and they're like, ask her
Speaker 3: her biggest fears. He's like, okay, got it, Yes, when
Speaker 3: to sit down, ask her biggest fears.
Speaker 5: We felt the whole season that he was reading Q
Speaker 5: cards and I'm not saying literally, but I wouldn't be
Speaker 5: shocked actually if there were your guards, Like it was
Speaker 5: that bad. And I felt like the only times we
Speaker 5: really kind of saw Grant was when he was talking
Speaker 5: about his upbringing with Zoe and.
Speaker 4: You're talking about the current season, right, you're not talking
Speaker 4: about genes and you're.
Speaker 5: Talking about you know, I'm talking. Sorry, I switched gears.
Speaker 5: Best's changed.
Speaker 2: No, you're right, No, I think the Zoe and Latias
Speaker 2: one at the dinner table, that long dinner table, is
Speaker 2: the one conversation that really stands out to me.
Speaker 4: Yes, same. We got so excited because I was like,
Speaker 4: oh my god, here's Grant.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 4: I actually literally said there's our bachelor. Like now now
Speaker 4: that that has been uncovered, like he'll keep growing into it,
Speaker 4: and then it just didn't really happen. I think he's
Speaker 4: just not comfortable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's fair. I mean it is very fair.
Speaker 4: You could argue that makes them more endearing.
Speaker 3: That's if we just allowed that to be shown, like
Speaker 3: the awkward silences, like, let's just show it. Let's show
Speaker 3: who Grant is. Like if you just sat there and
Speaker 3: they look stared at each other for a bit, I
Speaker 3: would be awesome, awesome for us to understand him, like
Speaker 3: he's he's smart, he's a little maybe nerdy, he's he's
Speaker 3: awkward in like in romance, all these things. It's like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I can root for that guy if because I know
Speaker 3: that guy. There is a thing that happens on the
Speaker 3: show when you are a lead, and it was all
Speaker 3: and it was a very clear directive by me at
Speaker 3: the beginning of the season. I said, I never want
Speaker 3: you to step in, like ever step in. I'm sure,
Speaker 3: Charlene n Ashley, you can remember some of these moments
Speaker 3: when conversations maybe like fade or they have a law
Speaker 3: and a date, specifically one on ones. A producer will
Speaker 3: come up if you remember this and say like, hey,
Speaker 3: what about uh, Charley, what about your this thing that
Speaker 3: you're thinking about right now? And you'd be like, oh,
Speaker 3: and you would like start talking about it, it would
Speaker 3: fill the conversation, so a producer would kind of have
Speaker 3: to intervene to keep things flowing and to get the
Speaker 3: words that they like, the stories that they wanted out
Speaker 3: of it. But it was I told them at the beginning,
Speaker 3: I never want you to step in that that feels
Speaker 3: like this will make me check out very quickly on
Speaker 3: all these relationships. If at any moment of producers like,
Speaker 3: hey man, you should ask her this question, like so weird.
Speaker 3: I think this season they're having to do a lot
Speaker 3: of you guys should talk about this.
Speaker 5: Yes, that's smart of you, because I think, like in
Speaker 5: the past, like Juan Pablow, it's to take him as
Speaker 5: an example you love him or hada, And that was
Speaker 5: a good season, wonderful. Probably didn't take direction from anybody,
Speaker 5: like he was doing his own thing. He was even
Speaker 5: going against direction just for the sake of it.
Speaker 4: So it's kind of difficult. But that's interesting, So interesting
Speaker 4: to hear you say then, because I don't remember that happening.
Speaker 4: What I hung out with one Pablo on the show,
Speaker 4: And I don't know if it's just because we had
Speaker 4: enough to talk about or like he wasn't receptive to that,
Speaker 4: but I don't. I do remember it happening more so
Speaker 4: like you know, girl chats, yeah, you know, Oh, what
Speaker 4: are you going to talk to one about tonight? Like
Speaker 4: before a group date or whatever, but not during like
Speaker 4: a one on one.
Speaker 5: I'm going to say something totally insane. I'm going to
Speaker 5: say that I think people have become more boring since
Speaker 5: the adoption of social media. Not the original now this
Speaker 5: hyper adoption of social media, and I literally think production
Speaker 5: is having to hold their hands was no one is
Speaker 5: having good interesting conversation, So they're saying, instead of letting
Speaker 5: this organically evolve, we're going to jump in and we're
Speaker 5: going to basically make this a scripted show with blocking.
Speaker 5: And I know that that may sound crazy, it sounds
Speaker 5: like I'm playing in a Devil's Advocate, but I actually
Speaker 5: believe that, and I have noticed it. If you watch
Speaker 5: from like Jesse's season all the way through, you keep watching,
Speaker 5: you will see the conversation quality go downhill on a
Speaker 5: straight line and take a deep dive right around the
Speaker 5: year like two thousand twenty, yeah, twenty twenty pandemic where
Speaker 5: social media went nuts. It just goes right down and
Speaker 5: I think if I'm a producer and I've got thirty
Speaker 5: people staying around having nothing conversations, not saying anything interesting,
Speaker 5: I'm gonna jump in and I'm not aligning the whole generation.
Speaker 5: I know there's a lot of good people out there.
Speaker 5: I often shit on this generation and I get gen X,
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, gen Z's or whatever. Millennial is like, you
Speaker 5: don't know what you're talking about. We're a bunch of
Speaker 5: smart people, we have good conversations.
Speaker 3: Its not reality to.
Speaker 4: Be remember the dial up saying absolutely, I'm not m millennials.
Speaker 2: I think what you're seeing is we're getting cuspy. Our
Speaker 2: cast is getting cuspy between millennial and gen Why gen Z?
Speaker 2: Sorry gen Z Wow? Cuspy is like they're not really
Speaker 2: millennials anymore. We're getting to see more gen Z on
Speaker 2: the show because I think they're like twenty seven now
Speaker 2: and below. So a lot of the cast, yeah is
Speaker 2: gen Z.
Speaker 5: All you've got to do is count the number of
Speaker 5: likes and amazings from season one to season twenty eight
Speaker 5: and you will be amazed.
Speaker 4: I think the closest Litia is thirty one.
Speaker 2: Latia is thirty one. Latia is a true millennial. She
Speaker 2: she's not cuspy, she's a millennial.
Speaker 4: And I gotta say, can we talk about how much
Speaker 4: better those conversations I read?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Sorry, Now we're like really abandoning our young fan base.
Speaker 5: I know I want you, but one of you has
Speaker 5: to agree with me right now, agree with me. I
Speaker 5: don't want to be left alone on this.
Speaker 2: No, we understand my comment.
Speaker 3: My response to that was I would say, people to
Speaker 3: me are more interesting on social media than they are
Speaker 3: in person, pretty consistently, like right now. I just think
Speaker 3: they're more comfortable with it. They express themselves more. You
Speaker 3: see tears on social media. Now, you see arguments, you
Speaker 3: see political stances, you see faith based claims on social
Speaker 3: media that people aren't doing in person. And I miss
Speaker 3: that world where that was happening more one on one
Speaker 3: where we could like dig into it. And I'm going
Speaker 3: to have to follow you on social media to find out.
Speaker 5: Yes, exactly than me.
Speaker 2: Well, people are also afraid to talk these days because
Speaker 2: they're afraid if they say something wrong that they're going
Speaker 2: to be totally screwed for life.
Speaker 5: And that's the other thing. It's not just there, it's
Speaker 5: not it's just a dumbing down of conversation. It's the
Speaker 5: it's the it's it's the fear in conversation. Yeah, you
Speaker 5: can only stay in a certain lanes without getting a big,
Speaker 5: big trouble.
Speaker 4: Now, if you're not flexing that muscle all the time,
Speaker 4: and that's the only way you're really being social, then
Speaker 4: you are going to only be more afraid.
Speaker 3: And Okay, just to.
Speaker 4: Cap this because I think you know so no one
Speaker 4: thinks we're shitting on it. I think this would have
Speaker 4: happened to any of us that's been raised.
Speaker 5: Anybody.
Speaker 3: This isn't this, this is I'm more curious about it
Speaker 3: than I am dogging on it. I just A'm seeing
Speaker 3: it and I'm feeling it. And and I think The
Speaker 3: Bachelor is such a great study to see how people
Speaker 3: are interacting in today, Which leads me to the questions
Speaker 3: that I want to ask you.
Speaker 5: I have.
Speaker 3: Two questions that we haven't asked anybody yet, and I'm
Speaker 3: going to start with the one that's more relevant to
Speaker 3: what you guys do at your podcast. But as you
Speaker 3: witness this change, and as you kind of are highlighting
Speaker 3: some of the hurdles and you know, relationships today, what
Speaker 3: advice are you giving people to relate with them when
Speaker 3: it comes to how to make these things work it,
Speaker 3: I guess maybe to make it more fun. If you
Speaker 3: were producers on this show right now and Grant Ellis
Speaker 3: was your bachelor and you had the crap of women
Speaker 3: that you have, what are you saying to them to
Speaker 3: help further these relationships into a place where maybe it
Speaker 3: could work long term?
Speaker 5: Oh? Man, and this is why we're not producers on
Speaker 5: the bass, then I would say nothing. I would say
Speaker 5: we put all the onus on casting, and casting should
Speaker 5: get paid the most money of anybody on this show,
Speaker 5: and if they put together the right cast, you just
Speaker 5: stand back and let it evolve, and that's it. I
Speaker 5: don't think production has a role. I think if someone's
Speaker 5: a little nerve about doing something like, oh, I don't
Speaker 5: know if I should do that, I don't know if
Speaker 5: I shud do that, it's fine to push them over,
Speaker 5: you know that line. But I don't think production should
Speaker 5: be getting involved at all. Conversation back in the day,
Speaker 5: like way way way back, like the real world stuff,
Speaker 5: it was literally just like throw a bunch of people
Speaker 5: in a house and step back and see what happens,
Speaker 5: you know, And I think that's what the batchel should
Speaker 5: be and I have to put the blame. I know
Speaker 5: everyone likes the blame producers. Are they blame the lead
Speaker 5: he's boring or whatever. I think the blame should be
Speaker 5: somewhat put on casting. I don't think they're necessarily necessarily
Speaker 5: picking the right people.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I have to agree with you. I think
Speaker 4: that the more involved producers get to try and create
Speaker 4: certain conversations, the worse it is, because, like as you said,
Speaker 4: even if it's awkward, like some of the best reality
Speaker 4: TV is the most awkward stuff. Right, you're fringing like
Speaker 4: you can't believe, you just don't want to be there,
Speaker 4: but you can't turn away, Like why are we even
Speaker 4: being robbed of that? Although to hear them talk, yes,
Speaker 4: I want to have kids and get married and have
Speaker 4: a wife.
Speaker 5: Berg's uncertainty principle, like the observed experiment is no longer
Speaker 5: an actual experiment. You don't get the result that should
Speaker 5: have happened had you not observed it. Yes, and I
Speaker 5: think that they should just step back and cast. I
Speaker 5: don't want to say better. It was not a maligning
Speaker 5: we have to some you know, some people on our show.
Speaker 5: I think they're lovely people. I just don't know if
Speaker 5: they were right for the show, they have to be
Speaker 5: careful about them.
Speaker 4: It's the combination of the boat though, Like if you
Speaker 4: keep having a producer coming in being like, well, so
Speaker 4: have you talked about this, like suggesting things to talk
Speaker 4: about off, Yeah, and it's going to end up being
Speaker 4: the exact same conversations over and over again, because I
Speaker 4: highly doubt that their suggestions are bespoke to each contestant.
Speaker 4: It's just the same suggestions over and over again. That's
Speaker 4: why you hear the same conversations over and over again.
Speaker 5: Yeah, then it feels scripted, and it feels formulaic, and
Speaker 5: it feels like the audience's intelligence is being insulted, which
Speaker 5: this season I felt heavily insulted. My intelligence was battered
Speaker 5: to a pulp.
Speaker 4: And an analogy we had for this season was that
Speaker 4: it's like an old dated like the first restaurant in
Speaker 4: a town and they haven't evolved. They have the same
Speaker 4: menu and in the beginning, like you went there and
Speaker 4: it was good because it was the only restaurant, but
Speaker 4: then as the years pass, you go out of nostalgia, right,
Speaker 4: you have other options, but you're like, oh, but this
Speaker 4: is comforting. They have this dish, I like, but then
Speaker 4: now it's sort of like even the ingredients are going
Speaker 4: downhill and you start to go and you're like, wait,
Speaker 4: why am I still coming? Wait?
Speaker 2: That's the most amazing analogy you've ever heard.
Speaker 5: And even more importantly, why are there so many people
Speaker 5: still in this restaurant? Well, if there's this many people
Speaker 5: in the restaurant, maybe it's good I'll keep eating here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, goodness, that is brilliant. It's almost like, what you know,
Speaker 3: there's obviously a big change in production teams coming in
Speaker 3: that's been known.
Speaker 4: Are we allowed to talk about that?
Speaker 2: I would like to?
Speaker 4: Yeah, me too.
Speaker 3: Well no, I mean I don't know how much of
Speaker 3: a conversation needs to be happening, because my second question
Speaker 3: to you was what do you hope the show turns into?
Speaker 3: Like if you had this new start and you kind
Speaker 3: of said it, it's almost just like, hey, producers, show,
Speaker 3: let's trust that humans are humans and they're beautiful and
Speaker 3: complex and weird, and they're going to try to figure
Speaker 3: this out and we can trust them to make good TV.
Speaker 3: Because that's just like we're just wanting to watch real
Speaker 3: stories play out. So it's almost like take a step
Speaker 3: back stop producing the show.
Speaker 5: Think about if you had a season where the last
Speaker 5: three episodes were one person or two people. Think about that,
Speaker 5: and and the audience will be like, Wow, we're being
Speaker 5: treated like we have intelligence. This is an actual show.
Speaker 5: This is what actually happened. We're not just having a
Speaker 5: Zoe for some reason going to the fantasy suites.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we like, by the way, we like Zoey No.
Speaker 5: No love zos lovely.
Speaker 4: I just told you for Zoey is that she's a
Speaker 4: good actor and a bad movie.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, well she just didn't belong there. They didn't
Speaker 3: have any Yeah, it was like it was it was
Speaker 3: like very smarterer.
Speaker 5: She was a close smart.
Speaker 3: Well, Ashley, you were on a been on a reality
Speaker 3: television show recently. I mean the big shows out there, Traders,
Speaker 3: Big Brother, like some of those Survivor shows, like the
Speaker 3: ones that have really like stayed relevant. I mean Traders
Speaker 3: doesn't have a creditor. Is pretty new though, it's very
Speaker 3: successful right now. Yeah, they don't have a producer in
Speaker 3: the room with these people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I told you I didn't love that. So
Speaker 2: I can't believe we even mentioned my appearance on Stars
Speaker 2: on Mars Ago, but it was it was. I didn't
Speaker 2: know the ensemble show on Fox. They had a great
Speaker 2: cast is I don't know what happens, but anyway, they
Speaker 2: didn't have any producer involvement, which from The Bachelor made
Speaker 2: me feel like I didn't have a home, Like they
Speaker 2: didn't have a home base to like go to somebody
Speaker 2: who was like not I needed like the comfort of
Speaker 2: going to somebody who wasn't part of the cast. Just
Speaker 2: well I needed a law like I had never done,
Speaker 2: like a show without a lawn.
Speaker 4: Well I have.
Speaker 2: I did Winter Games and Alan wasn't there, but I
Speaker 2: had plenty of others there it take his place. But
Speaker 2: there was like no source of comfort to me. And
Speaker 2: then I'm trying to do interviews without there's even being
Speaker 2: a producer in the room like they would have the
Speaker 2: producer would be like on a speaker asking you questions,
Speaker 2: and it just felt very impersonal to me. So maybe
Speaker 2: because I was trained by The Bachelor that didn't work,
Speaker 2: But like did that work for other Like we have
Speaker 2: to ask Gabby who went so far in Traders? How
Speaker 2: was that? How I was doing interviews without a real.
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter to me how they feel. I liked
Speaker 3: watching it. Yeah, like I don't care if you're uncomfortable.
Speaker 3: I think it makes great TV.
Speaker 4: Is this one right here?
Speaker 5: Yeah? I think you should. You should apply. Yeah, it
Speaker 5: seems right now for the Bachelor, he should apply to be.
Speaker 2: A producer on the producer. What if we did a
Speaker 2: cast led production team? Holy, that would be good?
Speaker 5: Oh my god? Actually think that would This is the
Speaker 5: answer to your question. The answer your question, Ben is
Speaker 5: you should be the producer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, cast Led production team, best season ever? Absolute madness. Hey,
Speaker 3: I know we have a heart out here. So I
Speaker 3: want to give you guys the last thirty seconds. Where
Speaker 3: can people listen to you? Why would they listen to you?
Speaker 3: And what do you you know? How can people follow along?
Speaker 4: Oh? Thank you? So we are Dear Shandy, which stands
Speaker 4: for Charlene and Andy.
Speaker 2: Oh I always wondered.
Speaker 4: We are a relationship podcast. You can write in and
Speaker 4: ask your relationship questions and we give our advice with
Speaker 4: you know, a dose of humor and analogies. But we
Speaker 4: are really known for our recaps. We recap the Ultimatum,
Speaker 4: Love is Blind, Bachelor, all of them, and we analyze
Speaker 4: it much as we did with you today. Very analytical
Speaker 4: and interpersonal and a lot of analogy. It's a lot
Speaker 4: of fun.
Speaker 5: There's laughter, it's fun for the whole family.
Speaker 2: This was fun for Ben and I. We woke up
Speaker 2: with you guys sleepy fantasy suites.
Speaker 4: Oh man right, Oh no, we always have so much fun.
Speaker 4: You guys are just like you're a great team. I
Speaker 4: gotta tell you really are years ten years.
Speaker 2: Ben exaggerates a little bit, like.
Speaker 4: It's been ten years.
Speaker 3: But it's good. Been close.
Speaker 4: No, he exaggerates too.
Speaker 5: I like, no, I exaggerate ten percent. It's always ten percent.
Speaker 3: So we're it nine years and I say ten years.
Speaker 3: That's ten percent. Yeah, we're fine. Wait, it's good.
Speaker 4: I know we have to if we have an out.
Speaker 4: But actually, does Jared exaggerate? Is this a man thing?
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. I was going to say, it's just
Speaker 2: like Jared exaggerates on time so much. He'll be like
Speaker 2: or he under he like is very bad with pinpointing time.
Speaker 2: He'd be like, yeah, he thinks everything was longer. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he thinks everything was longer. He was like, I'll say
Speaker 2: that was two months ago. He's like, no, no, no, it
Speaker 2: was like eight months ago. Like Jared, I go back
Speaker 2: up my calendar, look right here, it was two months ago.
Speaker 2: You nut?
Speaker 4: Okay, so I didn't like to exaggerate.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, we've never claimed to be the smartest, but
Speaker 3: we can talk. Hey, go listen to Dear Shandy. It's
Speaker 3: an amazingly good podcast with a great following, very passionate
Speaker 3: fan base, very fun fan base. After my time on
Speaker 3: that show, very supportive fan base. I would say as well,
Speaker 3: the great, great show going on. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 3: Until next time. I've been Ben, I've been Ashley. See
Speaker 3: you guys been Dear Sandy's.
Speaker 4: Thanks guys.
Speaker 1: Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.