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Speaker 1: This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast

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Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, everyone, welcome to the Almost Podcast. Today we have

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Speaker 2: the cast the hosts of Deer Shandy. That would be

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, did you change? Did she your last name?

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Speaker 2: Did you me?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 5: Why does it say Charlie Levine?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 2: Because I was just wondering because I was like, going

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Speaker 2: to introduce you to and I was like, I don't

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Speaker 2: know what her what her last name is?

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Speaker 4: Right now? I could not do Charlene Levine Charlie.

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Speaker 2: We have Andy Levine and Charlene joined joining us. Guys.

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Speaker 2: You guys may know Charlene if you if you haven't

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Speaker 2: listened to Deer Shandy. It's a relationship podcast. It's so

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Speaker 2: much fun. I've been a part of it. It's great.

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Speaker 2: But Charlene was part of wanm. Pablo season, a very

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Speaker 2: memorable cast member as somebody who has only appeared on

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Speaker 2: one season in the Bachelor franchise and is yet still

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Speaker 2: so memorable eleven years later.

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Speaker 4: Oh God, don't say that. It's been so.

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Speaker 5: Long and I was possible just make it a decade.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's been ten years since mine aired, and

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Speaker 2: there was there's was before.

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, I'm.

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Speaker 5: Still talking about it and it's still going. We're still going.

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Speaker 2: Charlene Levine, I don't know, Charlene. I think Charlene Levin

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Speaker 2: might big cube.

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Speaker 5: It might. It might have been a mess, yeah, Charlene

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Speaker 5: san Levine.

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Speaker 4: All right.

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Speaker 2: We were talking to them about how they just look as

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Speaker 2: if the past eleven years hasn't happened. We think that

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Speaker 2: they drink baby blood or something like that. Along with

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Speaker 2: Nick viol who they officiated his wedding last year. So

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Speaker 2: there's some coup here, some coup about looking fifteen years younger.

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Speaker 5: He gave us the potions bottle to.

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Speaker 4: That, because we can't take compliments. Is that you are

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Speaker 4: also part of the secret society because you were also

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Speaker 4: at that wedding.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I just haven't been invited into the secrets of

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Speaker 3: the coup. Yeah, that society yet. We've talked about it before.

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Speaker 3: But let's just remind everybody you guys did a great

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Speaker 3: job officiating that wedding.

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Speaker 5: Thanks.

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Speaker 2: That's so nice to a joint officiating too.

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Speaker 4: Thanks saying that that was a weeper. Let me tell

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Speaker 4: you that was a high stress situation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I did my cousins, which is such an honor.

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Speaker 3: But that's the reason it's so stressful, because it's such

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Speaker 3: an honor and no matter what you do, like preparing

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Speaker 3: for that, you're like, I'm I'm participating in the I

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Speaker 3: have the ability to not make don't give yourselves that credit,

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Speaker 3: but ruined, ruin the best day of their life. Yes,

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Speaker 3: that's like my only option. I either do fine and

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Speaker 3: nobody remembers it, or I ruin it and everybody talks

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 5: The best you can do is no one remembers it poorly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, anything below that you've failed.

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Speaker 3: I agree. I totally agree. Well we're here today because, well,

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Speaker 3: you guys do have a very very fun podcast. As

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Speaker 3: Ashley mentioned, you're talking about relationships. You're sharing insights. I

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Speaker 3: don't want to say advice because that makes it sound

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Speaker 3: like you guys think you know it all. You don't.

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Speaker 3: You listen to people's stories. Well, you give insights into

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Speaker 3: your situation and others and things you've learned along the way.

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Speaker 4: So we also talk reality TV.

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Speaker 3: Oh we do, And that's right and somehow and I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna just make a general statement. You tell me if

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Speaker 3: I'm completely off. Okay, you don't seem like a reality

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Speaker 3: television person to me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know they're way too highbrow for that.

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Speaker 3: I feel like, yeah, I just get this image of

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Speaker 3: my blast intellectuals. You would not do this.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 3: And so my question, I guess from that is like

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Speaker 3: why or am I wrong?

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Speaker 5: Okay, you're right, but I've married into the franchise, so

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Speaker 5: in part I have no choice. But in reality, I

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Speaker 5: actually that despite how silly it all is, there's a

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Speaker 5: lot of meat to analyze in reality TV from a

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Speaker 5: relationship perspective, psychological perspective. Even though some people may go

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Speaker 5: on the show now with the intention of gaining whatever

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Speaker 5: you want to call it, fame, Instagram fame, whatever it is,

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Speaker 5: now I think there becomes a no choice boundary where

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Speaker 5: they are now in the machine, They're in the experiment,

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Speaker 5: and they are part of this experience that they no

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Speaker 5: longer have control over. And that's interesting to analyze from

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Speaker 5: a psychological perspective. I would never have watched these shows

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Speaker 5: had it not been for Charlene. But I must thank

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Speaker 5: Charlene for bringing me into the fold. Now I've become

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Speaker 5: an ambassador of this amazing sphere of human life.

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Speaker 3: Has amazing billion dollar ip that seems to never go away.

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Speaker 3: All right, Charlie, what were you.

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Speaker 5: Going to say?

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Speaker 4: Honestly, it's a really fun outlet, especially for someone like

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Speaker 4: it Andy, who has a big personality and just never

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Speaker 4: did anything with it and is super analytical and like

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Speaker 4: just really can read interpersonal dynamics. And I think you

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Speaker 4: guys know it's like we all went on this show.

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Speaker 4: It's like you want a little something more out of life,

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Speaker 4: and you're not really sure what it is, and who

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Speaker 4: knows if the right thing to do was go on

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Speaker 4: the Bachelor or become the Bachelor. But what it can

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Speaker 4: do is sort of let you flex a muscle that

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Speaker 4: maybe you've never flexed before. And that's been really fun

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Speaker 4: with Andy, Like in the Pandemic, that's when I had

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Speaker 4: the time. I was like, let's finally do it, let's

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Speaker 4: be podcasters, And it was so fun to see him,

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Speaker 4: you know, just sort of spread his wings in this

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Speaker 4: department and be the person that I know he is,

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Speaker 4: but like get to share that with everyone. It's really fun,

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Speaker 4: Like it's very validating for me. It's basically a big

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Speaker 4: I told you so for me because he's so popular

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Speaker 4: and I'm like, that's all.

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Speaker 5: It is this and I told you so.

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Speaker 2: Fun I married of reality star. Basically, he is the

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Speaker 2: personality that he could have been one exactly.

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Speaker 5: I don't want to take that. I'm thinking about it.

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Speaker 4: Any member of this.

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Speaker 2: There's a couple of honorary members, for sure. I would

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Speaker 2: say that like Hayley. You know, Beca's girlfriend is definitely

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Speaker 2: an honorary member, as is tany Rad and I saw

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Speaker 2: him this weekend on a wedding. But yeah, there's definitely honoraries.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like Andy, you are one jes for sure. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: Am I missing anyone else? Obvious?

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: But talk about somebody that would never want to be

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Speaker 3: on television Jess my wife.

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Speaker 2: Yeah that is true. Okay, guys, so you talk highly

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Speaker 2: about you know, the Bachelor, Andy, You've enjoyed it for

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Speaker 2: the most part. Have you enjoyed this season? Because this

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Speaker 2: is the first season that I've said publicly on this podcast,

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Speaker 2: I go, guys, if it weren't for this podcast, I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't be watching it.

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Speaker 3: We I mean, we're with you on that.

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Speaker 5: I will say that I have enjoyed this season to

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Speaker 5: make fun of it more than any previous season. And

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Speaker 5: I always enjoy making fun of the seasons.

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Speaker 2: What have you enjoyed making fun of.

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Speaker 5: The most Oh my god, are you really putting me

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Speaker 5: on the spot. There's so many teachers from.

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Speaker 4: All the amazing woman.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 2: I haven't been sure if I should say anything, especially

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Speaker 2: not on air, feeling I could say it like Ben,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, Ben Hannah. He does say the amazing

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Speaker 2: woman in the plural meaning plural.

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Speaker 4: But apparently it's not specific to grant what we're learning.

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Speaker 2: The girls are doing it too, Juliana doesn't.

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Speaker 5: I think even Jesse dropped a couple.

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Speaker 3: You guys.

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Speaker 2: It's like the whole theme of the season as everybody

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Speaker 2: forgot the word women. Yes, the entire cast.

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Speaker 5: I don't even know which ones which anymore. I seriously,

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Speaker 5: I've lost track.

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Speaker 3: There was a there was a moment when I was

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Speaker 3: the lead I forget. I think I was like I

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Speaker 3: would say this is hilarious. I'd walk into a room

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Speaker 3: and be like ladies, and then at some point, like

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Speaker 3: one of the producers pulled me aside and they're like,

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Speaker 3: call them women, it's more respectful, And I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I wasn't like meaning this in a a way of disrespect.

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Speaker 3: I just like didn't know how to refer to a

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Speaker 3: group of thirty people sitting in the room, like it

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Speaker 3: gets a little nerve wracking to walk into a room.

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Speaker 3: So I was just like, ladies, I'm here, and uh, that.

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Speaker 2: Seems more natural, though, Yes, what else are you supposed

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Speaker 2: to say?

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Speaker 4: Hello?

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Speaker 3: Hello women? Hello women? No? They literally like, we're like

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Speaker 3: you need to call them women every moment in any interview,

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Speaker 3: anytime you confront them like women, And I'm like, that

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Speaker 3: just seems like almost like I don't know why. Maybe

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Speaker 3: it is more respectful, but to me it felt so formal,

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Speaker 3: and the formality of it made it feel the meaning

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Speaker 3: like I thought we were all friends. Like that was

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Speaker 3: maybe my biggest mistake as a lead was I just

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Speaker 3: thought we were all doing this thing together and figure

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Speaker 3: out how it played out. I didn't want to make

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Speaker 3: it too formal, but it was like, hello women, my

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Speaker 3: name is Ben.

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Speaker 2: I'm thirty seven, and I am just thinking that it

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Speaker 2: could be appropriate to call me a woman at thirty seven.

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Speaker 2: At twenty six, I was certainly not a woman. I

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Speaker 2: would feel awkward if you had call me a woman

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Speaker 2: at twenty six.

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Speaker 5: I totally agree. There there came a point I don't

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Speaker 5: remember what year it was where suddenly I felt weird

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Speaker 5: saying the word lady or woman, and I feel like

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Speaker 5: women when I was younger wanted to be called girls

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Speaker 5: and no one wanted to be called a lady. But

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Speaker 5: then lady was okay, and then women became not okay,

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Speaker 5: and now women's okay. I cannot keep track. I literally

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Speaker 5: every time I say I have to say the word,

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Speaker 5: whether whatever word it is, I get nervous. And I

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Speaker 5: was like, Okay, you can do this. Remember what's the

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Speaker 5: word you call a person with a vagina. You can

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Speaker 5: do this, and I always get it wrong. I'm like, Nope,

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Speaker 5: you should have said lady. That was a lady time,

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Speaker 5: it was a woman time. It's craziness.

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Speaker 4: I'm still correcting. That's very amusing. Yeah, but what's funny

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Speaker 4: about this, Ben Higgins, is that I don't think anyone

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Speaker 4: would argue with me and saying you were one of

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Speaker 4: the most respectful bachelors. Yeah, in this franchise's history known

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Speaker 4: for it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was good training then, because they made it

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Speaker 3: look like that. They said call them women, not ladies,

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Speaker 3: and everybody watching was like, he's so respectful. I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I'm just trying not to mess up here, Like I'm

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Speaker 3: just trying my best. But thank you for that. I hope,

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Speaker 3: I hope that's the like, if that's the memory people have,

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Speaker 3: then this was all worth it for me.

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Speaker 4: You know, Ben Higgins, I can't call him. Ben's Ben Higgins.

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Speaker 4: You're a moment in time like I will meet we

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Speaker 4: will meet Mark, Yes, Like we'll meet people who I

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Speaker 4: want to listen to the podcast and they won't even

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Speaker 4: know I was on the show. And it's like, when

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Speaker 4: did you start watching? It's like Ben Higgins season, this

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Speaker 4: happened just a week ago. Like it's like you are

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Speaker 4: like the Millennium.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then the follow up is and I didn't

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Speaker 3: watch a season after that because I hate that show.

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Speaker 3: The the interesting thing so like, this is a good

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Speaker 3: point and it's going to transition to me into a

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Speaker 3: question that I think maybe the two of you will

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Speaker 3: relate with. You know, when we just had our daughter,

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Speaker 3: I was talking to a lot of people who were

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Speaker 3: dads and I was like, I don't necessarily know how

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Speaker 3: to be a dad to a daughter. And they said this,

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Speaker 3: They said, you are there to represent what a man

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Speaker 3: should be to her and let her mom like do

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Speaker 3: the rest, and so I do. Charlene hear you. And

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Speaker 3: if that is a memory of the time that I

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Speaker 3: was given the opportunity to be on the show that

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Speaker 3: people say, Hey, that's how I want a guy to

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Speaker 3: treat my daughter, then this is all good. Like then, like,

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Speaker 3: I feel like peaceful about that and really excited about

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Speaker 3: that because I hope I can now show my daughter

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Speaker 3: how a man should treat a woman. So I hear that,

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Speaker 3: and that means a lot to me. Thank you for

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Speaker 3: saying that. That's what my point was there.

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Speaker 4: Oh that's so sweet and also the most Ben Higgins response.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I am like geeking out over the fact that

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Speaker 2: you guys made fun of Grant for women, and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: then is like, this is what women mean to me.

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Speaker 3: Come on. So here's my frustration with this season. We've

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Speaker 3: been like we wanted Grant to succeed one. I thought

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Speaker 3: he was a weird choice strictly from the fact that

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Speaker 3: we didn't know him. I thought he was set up

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Speaker 3: from failure from the beginning, no matter who he was

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Speaker 3: or what he would do, because he was coming into

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Speaker 3: it as such a an underdog and somebody that we

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Speaker 3: didn't understand from his season, we didn't get to know,

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Speaker 3: we didn't get to root for or like share tears with,

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Speaker 3: So he just kind of got chosen. And I always

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Speaker 3: think that's a weird choice when they choose somebody that

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Speaker 3: really has no backstory on the show, if they're going

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Speaker 3: to choose somebody from the show. So the hope is, Okay,

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Speaker 3: let's get to know Grant. That was a big wish

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Speaker 3: of ours at the Almost Famous podcast, we want to

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Speaker 3: get to know Grant. I will say, we're almost done

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Speaker 3: with this season. We have analyzed, we have made fun of,

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Speaker 3: we have celebrated, we have talked about this show for

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Speaker 3: ten weeks. Whatever it is, I don't know Grant, Like

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Speaker 3: I still don't know the guy. And I don't want

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Speaker 3: to say that's his fault because I don't know if

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Speaker 3: that's his fault. But I will say at some level

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Speaker 3: it's somebody's fault, the show's his or whatever that I

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Speaker 3: don't I don't necessarily understand him, and I typically don't

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Speaker 3: feel that way. Even with the Clayton's of the world,

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Speaker 3: I felt like I could get a pretty good judge

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Speaker 3: of what he was after, even though, like you know,

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Speaker 3: the show didn't nexts toy pop for anybody. I was like,

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Speaker 3: I think I get what this guy's after or what

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Speaker 3: he's about. And I don't know if it's going to work.

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Speaker 4: Long term, but at least I know.

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Speaker 3: But at least I know, and so I'll watch that

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Speaker 3: play out. I don't know Grant. I watch him every

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Speaker 3: week almost as a stranger, and I want to know

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Speaker 3: if you all feel the same way.

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Speaker 4: Company.

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Speaker 5: This is an echo chamber. I mean we have said

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Speaker 5: the whole season, who is this guy? Where is Grant Ellis?

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Speaker 5: Show us Grant Ellis. He doesn't even like when he

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Speaker 5: has an opportunity to make a choice, he doesn't even

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Speaker 5: make the choice. It's like, why did he give Carolina

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Speaker 5: mixed signals when she pulled him aside? Or he pulled

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Speaker 5: her aside even though she's her Why did you keep

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Speaker 5: her by her demeanor?

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Speaker 4: As he later said it women.

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Speaker 5: She practically begged. She's like, look, I'm here. I'm saying,

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Speaker 5: if you want to send me home, go for it.

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Speaker 5: I get it.

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Speaker 4: Connection.

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Speaker 5: I have no hard feelings. And he's like, no, I

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Speaker 5: really have strong feelings for you. I want you to

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Speaker 5: stick around. We got a good thing here, and then goodbye.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and That's just one example. We've had, well a

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Speaker 4: beef I've had all season, and we really like Grant

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Speaker 4: as what he seems to be as a person.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure he's a great time. I have nothing, but

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Speaker 3: but I just don't know him exactly.

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Speaker 4: You've been saying that he's just like we don't know

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Speaker 4: him any better than we did on GEN season, Like

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Speaker 4: even the lone wolf thing, like we'd learned that on

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Speaker 4: GEN season. I still feel like we've heard the same backstory,

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Speaker 4: Like it hasn't gone deeper. And I don't know if

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Speaker 4: it's him being kind of camera shy or what, but

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Speaker 4: something I have felt has been lacking is a sense

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Speaker 4: of conviction in what he wants to do. It doesn't

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Speaker 4: matter what girls have said about whomever. It's like he's

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Speaker 4: kind of running around with a chicken with its head

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Speaker 4: cut off, like, oh, she said that, he said she

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Speaker 4: said that, and like it's sort of like I don't

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Speaker 4: have a sense. And I think that's even reflected in

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Speaker 4: the fact that he doesn't even know who he's going

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Speaker 4: to pick between the final two. And I know that's

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Speaker 4: being teased and sometimes that's an exaggeration, but I really

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Speaker 4: do see it, like I think that he doesn't have

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Speaker 4: that like huh, that gut piece about the women, about

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Speaker 4: who he likes best, and I think that's being reflected

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Speaker 4: in his choices and how he It's just sort of

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Speaker 4: feels kind of like, kind of like wishy washy. I

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Speaker 4: don't really have a sense who he is.

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Speaker 5: It feels like he's playing the role and he's not

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Speaker 5: actually the person anymore. It just feels like he's saying

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Speaker 5: what he thinks he's supposed to say and doing what

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Speaker 5: he thinks he's supposed to do. I don't get the

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Speaker 5: feeling he really even wants to be there, And for

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Speaker 5: that reason, I don't really have a lot of faith

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Speaker 5: in whoever he picks. If he picks anyone, it's going

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Speaker 5: to last.

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Speaker 4: I don't think he's really sincere. I hope it works.

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Speaker 5: I think he's sincere, but not for somebody's meeting on

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Speaker 5: this show.

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Speaker 2: I think that if you were to like kind of

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Speaker 2: zoom away from this, I think the answer is that

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Speaker 2: he doesn't feel that strongly about any of them. No,

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Speaker 2: even though he says I love you to Letia this week.

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Speaker 3: I would argue with all this, I think he was

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Speaker 3: set up for failure, just like so many past leads

346
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,440
Speaker 3: have been set up for failure. I've told Ashley this.

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Speaker 3: When it came to my time on the show, it

348
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,600
Speaker 3: was so good until the previews came out and they

349
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Speaker 3: let me watch it while we were filming, and it

350
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Speaker 3: called me the perfect bin and that destroyed me. If

351
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:41,840
Speaker 3: I could tell you the week it happened, and my

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Speaker 3: confidence was shot and my fear levels went up, and

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Speaker 3: I was like, this is I'm set up for failure.

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Speaker 3: You call me the perfect beIN. I can't live up

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Speaker 3: to that. That's not who I am, and that's not

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Speaker 3: reflective of who I want to be known as. I'm

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Speaker 3: not that guy, and if that's how you're gonna market me,

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Speaker 3: then I'm going to fail you in that. In that pursuit,

359
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Speaker 3: I would say the same thing happened to Grant. Grant

360
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Speaker 3: was promoted as this amazingly handsome guy, so good looking,

361
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Speaker 3: the best looking bachelor we've ever had, which isn't wrong,

362
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Speaker 3: But think about how he's hearing that I'm handsome. That's

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Speaker 3: what you got for me. You've chosen me as the

364
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,800
Speaker 3: Bachelor because I'm handsome, and so as a result, I

365
00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,880
Speaker 3: think his confidence is so low. I don't think he's

366
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Speaker 3: I don't think he has the conviction because I don't

367
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Speaker 3: think the show did a good job of preparing him

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Speaker 3: with you know who you are, Grant, you're somebody that

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Speaker 3: is confident, that is strong, that knows what he wants,

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Speaker 3: that has the opportunity to pursue a relationship here from

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Speaker 3: the show with thirty women, and you get this amazing

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Speaker 3: opportunity to date all of them and figure out what

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Speaker 3: you want. And it's okay to figure out what you want,

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Speaker 3: and you can send people home and they're gonna be

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Speaker 3: just fine. They're gonna be sad and maybe a little

376
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Speaker 3: mad at you, they're gonna be just fine and hurt, yes,

377
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:58,640
Speaker 3: and he the show needed to do a better job

378
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,600
Speaker 3: being like hurt him, like yeah for a second. And

379
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Speaker 3: then they're going to get an Instagram following and they're

380
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Speaker 3: going to start dating somebody. It's way more famous than

381
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Speaker 3: you anyways, and it's going to be fine.

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Speaker 2: Or we could be really honest and just say that

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Speaker 2: he probably didn't have the personality to conduct the show.

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Speaker 5: I don't see what's wrong with.

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Speaker 2: That, and which is totally fine, but that's on them

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Speaker 2: for picking somebody who couldn't command the show.

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Speaker 4: Can it be d all of the above?

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Speaker 5: It's all of the above. But I agree with you Ashley.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's like there has to be a certain

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Speaker 5: type of person to be the Bachelor. You can't just say, oh,

391
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Speaker 5: this guy was a nice guy in the season and

392
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Speaker 5: he's tall and good looking, let's throw him in the role.

393
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Speaker 5: You have to have a certain type of personality. And

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Speaker 5: I think Grant, honestly, in real life and human life,

395
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Speaker 5: is probably a very cool, affable guy you want to

396
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Speaker 5: hang out with. But on TV it doesn't work. And

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Speaker 5: I blame I blame production, I blame casting, and you know,

398
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Speaker 5: to some degree as a third party, I do blame

399
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Speaker 5: Grant for just not taking a standard being like I'm

400
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Speaker 5: not going to just total line. I'm going to actually

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Speaker 5: do something here.

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Speaker 4: I also think Ben is onto something by saying that

403
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,879
Speaker 4: he was set up for failure. You know, we only

404
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,840
Speaker 4: where we're down two episodes this season versus past season.

405
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Speaker 4: You know, so right off the bat, we're not getting

406
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:13,639
Speaker 4: to know people as well. And I feel that the

407
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 4: season itself, and you know, it could be like it's

408
00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,560
Speaker 4: Chicken or ragg I don't know if it's because Grant

409
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 4: is the way he is that the season is like this,

410
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,159
Speaker 4: or Grant is being that way because the season is

411
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:25,840
Speaker 4: the way it is. But we can all agree that

412
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:31,119
Speaker 4: this season feels rote. It feels derivative. It feels like

413
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 4: I feel like I'm watching like a parody of itself,

414
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,040
Speaker 4: except a bad one. Like it's like even the hometowns, Like,

415
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Speaker 4: I was like, what are we even watching? This could

416
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:41,840
Speaker 4: have been from ten years ago, but at least they

417
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 4: were working with what they had, with the personalities they had.

418
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Speaker 4: This just feels like they're trying to like squeeze everything

419
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,719
Speaker 4: into the same formula we know, instead of just like

420
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,280
Speaker 4: letting it be and letting us watch what happens. It

421
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,440
Speaker 4: doesn't feel like reality TV. It feels almost semi scripted.

422
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Speaker 4: Like the scenes with Zoe to me feel like like

423
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Speaker 4: almost scripted. And sometimes Grant's ims it feels like he's

424
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Speaker 4: like reading off a teleprophone.

425
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Speaker 5: And that's another thing. What was Zoe doing there? Why

426
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,879
Speaker 5: was she? Why was she in fantasy Suites?

427
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,919
Speaker 2: Because he obviously didn't like anybody enough, so he had

428
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Speaker 2: to pick somebody to fill that spot.

429
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Speaker 5: What about Carolina and Alex? What happened there?

430
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well that's that's an weird thing. We've had an

431
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,639
Speaker 2: editing issue over the past couple of season. Maybe maybe

432
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,320
Speaker 2: not a little bit, maybe with Joey's, but like Joey's

433
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 2: season had so many characters and he was so charming

434
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 2: that they can get away with it. This is like

435
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 2: showing a whole bunch of flaws in storytelling.

436
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:40,240
Speaker 4: Oh heavy flawsaw. Like to me, the Alex thing is

437
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,960
Speaker 4: a great example. She's you know, we all we know

438
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,400
Speaker 4: that that contestant exists, the one who gets the first impression.

439
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 4: Rose gets an early first date, she's the one to

440
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,160
Speaker 4: be and then it's like it fizzles. But at least

441
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,879
Speaker 4: talk about how it fizzled. Women tell all, don't be like,

442
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:54,960
Speaker 4: oh what happened? Here are the answers. And then it's

443
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,000
Speaker 4: just like, oh, the drama caught up with you.

444
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 5: How does drama catch up with someone unrelated to drama?

445
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:02,400
Speaker 5: In Roman?

446
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 4: Just give one im where it's like I don't really

447
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,359
Speaker 4: know what happened, Like, yeah, Alex had just sort of

448
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 4: fell behind it. We didn't even get that she just

449
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 4: suddenly got sent home. It's like we're missing crucial pieces.

450
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 5: Also, also Night one, I don't even remember her name.

451
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 5: I think was was it Ashley? Alicia Alisha, what happened there?

452
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 4: The weirdest thing.

453
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 3: They're kissing, and then the next week she's gone, gone,

454
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,959
Speaker 3: no explanation, zero, she doesn't even know we talked to her.

455
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, that's not surprising.

456
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 2: It actually made less sense after talking to her, really,

457
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,920
Speaker 2: because she said so good. Yeah, she said that the

458
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 2: conversation that was aired was like the lesser of them all,

459
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 2: Like I.

460
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 3: Don't get it. I mean, I think it has been

461
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 3: I think as viewers of the show, so we're talking

462
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 3: about this now as fans of the show, I think

463
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 3: anytime we sit there and we feel like we can't

464
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 3: root for, dive into. I mean, there are characters that

465
00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 3: I strictly, very vividly remember from ten years ago, who

466
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 3: I was in it with each episode, right, I want

467
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 3: to see what they have to say here. I want

468
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 3: to see how they confront this issue. I'm going to

469
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 3: be sad when they leave. And I was sad when

470
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 3: they left or I was happy when they would stay.

471
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 3: That element of the show has disappeared because I think

472
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 3: there were missing. We're missing those minor moments that help

473
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 3: people make sense. There's a moment during Gens season with

474
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 3: Grant and I brought it up back then, and it

475
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 3: was my I don't know why, I could be crazy,

476
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 3: but it was my concern for him becoming the Bachelor.

477
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 3: It was a moment that was celebrated by so many

478
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 3: and I think it because it was a unique moment

479
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,959
Speaker 3: during that season. He asked Jenna question. He says, I

480
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 3: just want to know your biggest fears? What are your

481
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 3: biggest fears? And people are like that he's so sweet

482
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 3: and sensitive. I'm like, I'm sure he is. I'm not

483
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 3: taking that away from him, But that's such a simple question, Like,

484
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 3: that's a question you asked when you were lacking confidence

485
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 3: to know what to ask. In the moment, you can

486
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 3: ask that a thousand different ways. Yeah, and you can

487
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 3: have the patience to explore the fears and dig into him.

488
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 3: You just don't come out on a date and say,

489
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 3: what are your biggest fears? That's a very generic question

490
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 3: to me.

491
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 5: Well, yes, it's an interview question.

492
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 3: It's an interview question. Yeah, you're exactly right, and so

493
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,359
Speaker 3: it's very so at that moment, I said, I'm worried

494
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 3: about this guy when it comes to his desire to

495
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 3: explore these things in a way that is real and

496
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 3: not a producer. When he said it sounds like he

497
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 3: was sitting with the producer and he's like, I don't

498
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 3: know what to ask her, and they're like, ask her

499
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 3: her biggest fears. He's like, okay, got it, Yes, when

500
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 3: to sit down, ask her biggest fears.

501
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 5: We felt the whole season that he was reading Q

502
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 5: cards and I'm not saying literally, but I wouldn't be

503
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 5: shocked actually if there were your guards, Like it was

504
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 5: that bad. And I felt like the only times we

505
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 5: really kind of saw Grant was when he was talking

506
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 5: about his upbringing with Zoe and.

507
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 4: You're talking about the current season, right, you're not talking

508
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 4: about genes and you're.

509
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,400
Speaker 5: Talking about you know, I'm talking. Sorry, I switched gears.

510
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 5: Best's changed.

511
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 2: No, you're right, No, I think the Zoe and Latias

512
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 2: one at the dinner table, that long dinner table, is

513
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: the one conversation that really stands out to me.

514
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 4: Yes, same. We got so excited because I was like,

515
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 4: oh my god, here's Grant.

516
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 2: Yes.

517
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 4: I actually literally said there's our bachelor. Like now now

518
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 4: that that has been uncovered, like he'll keep growing into it,

519
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 4: and then it just didn't really happen. I think he's

520
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 4: just not comfortable.

521
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's fair. I mean it is very fair.

522
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 4: You could argue that makes them more endearing.

523
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 3: That's if we just allowed that to be shown, like

524
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 3: the awkward silences, like, let's just show it. Let's show

525
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 3: who Grant is. Like if you just sat there and

526
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 3: they look stared at each other for a bit, I

527
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 3: would be awesome, awesome for us to understand him, like

528
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 3: he's he's smart, he's a little maybe nerdy, he's he's

529
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 3: awkward in like in romance, all these things. It's like, Okay,

530
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 3: I can root for that guy if because I know

531
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 3: that guy. There is a thing that happens on the

532
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 3: show when you are a lead, and it was all

533
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 3: and it was a very clear directive by me at

534
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,400
Speaker 3: the beginning of the season. I said, I never want

535
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 3: you to step in, like ever step in. I'm sure,

536
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 3: Charlene n Ashley, you can remember some of these moments

537
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 3: when conversations maybe like fade or they have a law

538
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 3: and a date, specifically one on ones. A producer will

539
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 3: come up if you remember this and say like, hey,

540
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 3: what about uh, Charley, what about your this thing that

541
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 3: you're thinking about right now? And you'd be like, oh,

542
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 3: and you would like start talking about it, it would

543
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 3: fill the conversation, so a producer would kind of have

544
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 3: to intervene to keep things flowing and to get the

545
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 3: words that they like, the stories that they wanted out

546
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 3: of it. But it was I told them at the beginning,

547
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 3: I never want you to step in that that feels

548
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 3: like this will make me check out very quickly on

549
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 3: all these relationships. If at any moment of producers like,

550
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 3: hey man, you should ask her this question, like so weird.

551
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 3: I think this season they're having to do a lot

552
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 3: of you guys should talk about this.

553
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 5: Yes, that's smart of you, because I think, like in

554
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 5: the past, like Juan Pablow, it's to take him as

555
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 5: an example you love him or hada, And that was

556
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 5: a good season, wonderful. Probably didn't take direction from anybody,

557
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 5: like he was doing his own thing. He was even

558
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 5: going against direction just for the sake of it.

559
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 4: So it's kind of difficult. But that's interesting, So interesting

560
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 4: to hear you say then, because I don't remember that happening.

561
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 4: What I hung out with one Pablo on the show,

562
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 4: And I don't know if it's just because we had

563
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 4: enough to talk about or like he wasn't receptive to that,

564
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 4: but I don't. I do remember it happening more so

565
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 4: like you know, girl chats, yeah, you know, Oh, what

566
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 4: are you going to talk to one about tonight? Like

567
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 4: before a group date or whatever, but not during like

568
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:39,120
Speaker 4: a one on one.

569
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 5: I'm going to say something totally insane. I'm going to

570
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 5: say that I think people have become more boring since

571
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 5: the adoption of social media. Not the original now this

572
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 5: hyper adoption of social media, and I literally think production

573
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 5: is having to hold their hands was no one is

574
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 5: having good interesting conversation, So they're saying, instead of letting

575
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 5: this organically evolve, we're going to jump in and we're

576
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 5: going to basically make this a scripted show with blocking.

577
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 5: And I know that that may sound crazy, it sounds

578
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 5: like I'm playing in a Devil's Advocate, but I actually

579
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 5: believe that, and I have noticed it. If you watch

580
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 5: from like Jesse's season all the way through, you keep watching,

581
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 5: you will see the conversation quality go downhill on a

582
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 5: straight line and take a deep dive right around the

583
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 5: year like two thousand twenty, yeah, twenty twenty pandemic where

584
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 5: social media went nuts. It just goes right down and

585
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 5: I think if I'm a producer and I've got thirty

586
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 5: people staying around having nothing conversations, not saying anything interesting,

587
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 5: I'm gonna jump in and I'm not aligning the whole generation.

588
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 5: I know there's a lot of good people out there.

589
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 5: I often shit on this generation and I get gen X,

590
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, gen Z's or whatever. Millennial is like, you

591
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 5: don't know what you're talking about. We're a bunch of

592
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 5: smart people, we have good conversations.

593
00:27:58,680 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 3: Its not reality to.

594
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 4: Be remember the dial up saying absolutely, I'm not m millennials.

595
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 2: I think what you're seeing is we're getting cuspy. Our

596
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:14,719
Speaker 2: cast is getting cuspy between millennial and gen Why gen Z?

597
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 2: Sorry gen Z Wow? Cuspy is like they're not really

598
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 2: millennials anymore. We're getting to see more gen Z on

599
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 2: the show because I think they're like twenty seven now

600
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: and below. So a lot of the cast, yeah is

601
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 2: gen Z.

602
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 5: All you've got to do is count the number of

603
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 5: likes and amazings from season one to season twenty eight

604
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 5: and you will be amazed.

605
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 4: I think the closest Litia is thirty one.

606
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: Latia is thirty one. Latia is a true millennial. She

607
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: she's not cuspy, she's a millennial.

608
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 4: And I gotta say, can we talk about how much

609
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 4: better those conversations I read?

610
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 2: Yeah? Sorry, Now we're like really abandoning our young fan base.

611
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 5: I know I want you, but one of you has

612
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 5: to agree with me right now, agree with me. I

613
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 5: don't want to be left alone on this.

614
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 2: No, we understand my comment.

615
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 3: My response to that was I would say, people to

616
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 3: me are more interesting on social media than they are

617
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 3: in person, pretty consistently, like right now. I just think

618
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 3: they're more comfortable with it. They express themselves more. You

619
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 3: see tears on social media. Now, you see arguments, you

620
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 3: see political stances, you see faith based claims on social

621
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 3: media that people aren't doing in person. And I miss

622
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 3: that world where that was happening more one on one

623
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 3: where we could like dig into it. And I'm going

624
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 3: to have to follow you on social media to find out.

625
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 5: Yes, exactly than me.

626
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 2: Well, people are also afraid to talk these days because

627
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 2: they're afraid if they say something wrong that they're going

628
00:29:58,200 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 2: to be totally screwed for life.

629
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 5: And that's the other thing. It's not just there, it's

630
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 5: not it's just a dumbing down of conversation. It's the

631
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 5: it's the it's it's the fear in conversation. Yeah, you

632
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 5: can only stay in a certain lanes without getting a big,

633
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 5: big trouble.

634
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 4: Now, if you're not flexing that muscle all the time,

635
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 4: and that's the only way you're really being social, then

636
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 4: you are going to only be more afraid.

637
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 3: And Okay, just to.

638
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 4: Cap this because I think you know so no one

639
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 4: thinks we're shitting on it. I think this would have

640
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 4: happened to any of us that's been raised.

641
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 5: Anybody.

642
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 3: This isn't this, this is I'm more curious about it

643
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 3: than I am dogging on it. I just A'm seeing

644
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,959
Speaker 3: it and I'm feeling it. And and I think The

645
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 3: Bachelor is such a great study to see how people

646
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 3: are interacting in today, Which leads me to the questions

647
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 3: that I want to ask you.

648
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 5: I have.

649
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 3: Two questions that we haven't asked anybody yet, and I'm

650
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 3: going to start with the one that's more relevant to

651
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 3: what you guys do at your podcast. But as you

652
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 3: witness this change, and as you kind of are highlighting

653
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 3: some of the hurdles and you know, relationships today, what

654
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 3: advice are you giving people to relate with them when

655
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,479
Speaker 3: it comes to how to make these things work it,

656
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 3: I guess maybe to make it more fun. If you

657
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 3: were producers on this show right now and Grant Ellis

658
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 3: was your bachelor and you had the crap of women

659
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 3: that you have, what are you saying to them to

660
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 3: help further these relationships into a place where maybe it

661
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 3: could work long term?

662
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 5: Oh? Man, and this is why we're not producers on

663
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 5: the bass, then I would say nothing. I would say

664
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 5: we put all the onus on casting, and casting should

665
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 5: get paid the most money of anybody on this show,

666
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 5: and if they put together the right cast, you just

667
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 5: stand back and let it evolve, and that's it. I

668
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 5: don't think production has a role. I think if someone's

669
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 5: a little nerve about doing something like, oh, I don't

670
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 5: know if I should do that, I don't know if

671
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 5: I shud do that, it's fine to push them over,

672
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 5: you know that line. But I don't think production should

673
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 5: be getting involved at all. Conversation back in the day,

674
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 5: like way way way back, like the real world stuff,

675
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 5: it was literally just like throw a bunch of people

676
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 5: in a house and step back and see what happens,

677
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 5: you know, And I think that's what the batchel should

678
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 5: be and I have to put the blame. I know

679
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 5: everyone likes the blame producers. Are they blame the lead

680
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 5: he's boring or whatever. I think the blame should be

681
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 5: somewhat put on casting. I don't think they're necessarily necessarily

682
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 5: picking the right people.

683
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I have to agree with you. I think

684
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 4: that the more involved producers get to try and create

685
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 4: certain conversations, the worse it is, because, like as you said,

686
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 4: even if it's awkward, like some of the best reality

687
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 4: TV is the most awkward stuff. Right, you're fringing like

688
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 4: you can't believe, you just don't want to be there,

689
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 4: but you can't turn away, Like why are we even

690
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 4: being robbed of that? Although to hear them talk, yes,

691
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 4: I want to have kids and get married and have

692
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 4: a wife.

693
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 5: Berg's uncertainty principle, like the observed experiment is no longer

694
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 5: an actual experiment. You don't get the result that should

695
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 5: have happened had you not observed it. Yes, and I

696
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 5: think that they should just step back and cast. I

697
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 5: don't want to say better. It was not a maligning

698
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 5: we have to some you know, some people on our show.

699
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 5: I think they're lovely people. I just don't know if

700
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 5: they were right for the show, they have to be

701
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 5: careful about them.

702
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 4: It's the combination of the boat though, Like if you

703
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 4: keep having a producer coming in being like, well, so

704
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 4: have you talked about this, like suggesting things to talk

705
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 4: about off, Yeah, and it's going to end up being

706
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 4: the exact same conversations over and over again, because I

707
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 4: highly doubt that their suggestions are bespoke to each contestant.

708
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 4: It's just the same suggestions over and over again. That's

709
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 4: why you hear the same conversations over and over again.

710
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, then it feels scripted, and it feels formulaic, and

711
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 5: it feels like the audience's intelligence is being insulted, which

712
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 5: this season I felt heavily insulted. My intelligence was battered

713
00:33:59,360 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 5: to a pulp.

714
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 4: And an analogy we had for this season was that

715
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 4: it's like an old dated like the first restaurant in

716
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 4: a town and they haven't evolved. They have the same

717
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 4: menu and in the beginning, like you went there and

718
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 4: it was good because it was the only restaurant, but

719
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 4: then as the years pass, you go out of nostalgia, right,

720
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 4: you have other options, but you're like, oh, but this

721
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 4: is comforting. They have this dish, I like, but then

722
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 4: now it's sort of like even the ingredients are going

723
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 4: downhill and you start to go and you're like, wait,

724
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 4: why am I still coming? Wait?

725
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 2: That's the most amazing analogy you've ever heard.

726
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 5: And even more importantly, why are there so many people

727
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 5: still in this restaurant? Well, if there's this many people

728
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 5: in the restaurant, maybe it's good I'll keep eating here.

729
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, goodness, that is brilliant. It's almost like, what you know,

730
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 3: there's obviously a big change in production teams coming in

731
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 3: that's been known.

732
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 4: Are we allowed to talk about that?

733
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 2: I would like to?

734
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, me too.

735
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 3: Well no, I mean I don't know how much of

736
00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,959
Speaker 3: a conversation needs to be happening, because my second question

737
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 3: to you was what do you hope the show turns into?

738
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 3: Like if you had this new start and you kind

739
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 3: of said it, it's almost just like, hey, producers, show,

740
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 3: let's trust that humans are humans and they're beautiful and

741
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 3: complex and weird, and they're going to try to figure

742
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 3: this out and we can trust them to make good TV.

743
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 3: Because that's just like we're just wanting to watch real

744
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 3: stories play out. So it's almost like take a step

745
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 3: back stop producing the show.

746
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,240
Speaker 5: Think about if you had a season where the last

747
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 5: three episodes were one person or two people. Think about that,

748
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 5: and and the audience will be like, Wow, we're being

749
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 5: treated like we have intelligence. This is an actual show.

750
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 5: This is what actually happened. We're not just having a

751
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 5: Zoe for some reason going to the fantasy suites.

752
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we like, by the way, we like Zoey No.

753
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 5: No love zos lovely.

754
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 4: I just told you for Zoey is that she's a

755
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 4: good actor and a bad movie.

756
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,959
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, well she just didn't belong there. They didn't

757
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 3: have any Yeah, it was like it was it was

758
00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 3: like very smarterer.

759
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:00,240
Speaker 5: She was a close smart.

760
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 3: Well, Ashley, you were on a been on a reality

761
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 3: television show recently. I mean the big shows out there, Traders,

762
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 3: Big Brother, like some of those Survivor shows, like the

763
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 3: ones that have really like stayed relevant. I mean Traders

764
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 3: doesn't have a creditor. Is pretty new though, it's very

765
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 3: successful right now. Yeah, they don't have a producer in

766
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 3: the room with these people.

767
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I told you I didn't love that. So

768
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 2: I can't believe we even mentioned my appearance on Stars

769
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: on Mars Ago, but it was it was. I didn't

770
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 2: know the ensemble show on Fox. They had a great

771
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 2: cast is I don't know what happens, but anyway, they

772
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 2: didn't have any producer involvement, which from The Bachelor made

773
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 2: me feel like I didn't have a home, Like they

774
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 2: didn't have a home base to like go to somebody

775
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 2: who was like not I needed like the comfort of

776
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 2: going to somebody who wasn't part of the cast. Just

777
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 2: well I needed a law like I had never done,

778
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 2: like a show without a lawn.

779
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 4: Well I have.

780
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 2: I did Winter Games and Alan wasn't there, but I

781
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 2: had plenty of others there it take his place. But

782
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 2: there was like no source of comfort to me. And

783
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 2: then I'm trying to do interviews without there's even being

784
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 2: a producer in the room like they would have the

785
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 2: producer would be like on a speaker asking you questions,

786
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 2: and it just felt very impersonal to me. So maybe

787
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: because I was trained by The Bachelor that didn't work,

788
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 2: But like did that work for other Like we have

789
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 2: to ask Gabby who went so far in Traders? How

790
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 2: was that? How I was doing interviews without a real.

791
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter to me how they feel. I liked

792
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 3: watching it. Yeah, like I don't care if you're uncomfortable.

793
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:50,959
Speaker 3: I think it makes great TV.

794
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 4: Is this one right here?

795
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 5: Yeah? I think you should. You should apply. Yeah, it

796
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 5: seems right now for the Bachelor, he should apply to be.

797
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 2: A producer on the producer. What if we did a

798
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 2: cast led production team? Holy, that would be good?

799
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 5: Oh my god? Actually think that would This is the

800
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 5: answer to your question. The answer your question, Ben is

801
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 5: you should be the producer.

802
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, cast Led production team, best season ever? Absolute madness. Hey,

803
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 3: I know we have a heart out here. So I

804
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 3: want to give you guys the last thirty seconds. Where

805
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 3: can people listen to you? Why would they listen to you?

806
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 3: And what do you you know? How can people follow along?

807
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 4: Oh? Thank you? So we are Dear Shandy, which stands

808
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 4: for Charlene and Andy.

809
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 2: Oh I always wondered.

810
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 4: We are a relationship podcast. You can write in and

811
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 4: ask your relationship questions and we give our advice with

812
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 4: you know, a dose of humor and analogies. But we

813
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 4: are really known for our recaps. We recap the Ultimatum,

814
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 4: Love is Blind, Bachelor, all of them, and we analyze

815
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 4: it much as we did with you today. Very analytical

816
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 4: and interpersonal and a lot of analogy. It's a lot

817
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 4: of fun.

818
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 5: There's laughter, it's fun for the whole family.

819
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,399
Speaker 2: This was fun for Ben and I. We woke up

820
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 2: with you guys sleepy fantasy suites.

821
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,439
Speaker 4: Oh man right, Oh no, we always have so much fun.

822
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 4: You guys are just like you're a great team. I

823
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 4: gotta tell you really are years ten years.

824
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 2: Ben exaggerates a little bit, like.

825
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 4: It's been ten years.

826
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 3: But it's good. Been close.

827
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 4: No, he exaggerates too.

828
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 5: I like, no, I exaggerate ten percent. It's always ten percent.

829
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 3: So we're it nine years and I say ten years.

830
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 3: That's ten percent. Yeah, we're fine. Wait, it's good.

831
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 4: I know we have to if we have an out.

832
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 4: But actually, does Jared exaggerate? Is this a man thing?

833
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. I was going to say, it's just

834
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 2: like Jared exaggerates on time so much. He'll be like

835
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,879
Speaker 2: or he under he like is very bad with pinpointing time.

836
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 2: He'd be like, yeah, he thinks everything was longer. Yeah,

837
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 2: he thinks everything was longer. He was like, I'll say

838
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 2: that was two months ago. He's like, no, no, no, it

839
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 2: was like eight months ago. Like Jared, I go back

840
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 2: up my calendar, look right here, it was two months ago.

841
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 2: You nut?

842
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 4: Okay, so I didn't like to exaggerate.

843
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, we've never claimed to be the smartest, but

844
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 3: we can talk. Hey, go listen to Dear Shandy. It's

845
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 3: an amazingly good podcast with a great following, very passionate

846
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 3: fan base, very fun fan base. After my time on

847
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 3: that show, very supportive fan base. I would say as well,

848
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,720
Speaker 3: the great, great show going on. Thank you for listening.

849
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,399
Speaker 3: Until next time. I've been Ben, I've been Ashley. See

850
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 3: you guys been Dear Sandy's.

851
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 4: Thanks guys.

852
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on

853
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.