1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,720 Speaker 1: Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaline Audio in 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: partnership with Iheartradiosh Show. 3 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 2: Yallos Katie. 4 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 3: Hello, fellow unpackers of the two boxes of the industry. 5 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 4: Hello unpackers, Hello listeners. 6 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 3: We have an amazing guest today. 7 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 5: Oh yes, we do. 8 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,279 Speaker 2: It's lovely to see you rascals again. I've missed you. 9 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 4: Oh my lord, exciting, Oh my gosh, Lynn Poolo. 10 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 6: Polo. 11 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 7: Everyone gets so many round of applause. This woman. 12 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 4: You will know her name from the many many shows 13 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 4: she has done over the course of the history of 14 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 4: recent television, and also from her own clothing lines. The 15 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 4: woman has clothing lines. 16 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 2: I have clothing lines. 17 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 4: But more importantly, she's the most spectacular, creative and wonderful 18 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 4: human being. And we're all incredibly lucky to have her 19 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 4: in our lives, and we are going to share her 20 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 4: with you on this podcast. 21 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 2: Yay me, thank you, Bessie, thank you. Everyone so excited 22 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 2: to be here. 23 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 6: Eslen Palla would say, you rascals. Also, I can't believe 24 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 6: that she got paid to dress me through two pregnancies. 25 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 2: So joyful you here, Katie, put on these pantyhose. Thank you, 26 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 2: Oh for you the torture. 27 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 6: I mean again, like we're unpacking all these different people 28 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 6: in the industry right now, and the person who is 29 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 6: the costume designer is so intimate with the actors, and 30 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 6: I can't wait to hear how Betsy being the production 31 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 6: side works to set up what the show's look is 32 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 6: and feel clothing wise, But for the actors, it's the 33 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 6: most intimate thing in the entire world. And in my 34 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 6: experience with Lynn, so fortunate that you were the person 35 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 6: when I was losing my mind, going up in size, 36 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 6: down in size, big boobs, little boobs, breastfeeding, not breastfeeding 37 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 6: like she would leave eight thousand sizes of jeans and bras. 38 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,959 Speaker 2: You're giving away my trade secret, trade secret. 39 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 6: Come on, this is why Lynn Pallow's a gift is 40 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 6: a gift to acts. 41 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 2: Katie. Look, I just want to say to you, we're ladies. Yeah, 42 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 2: we're sharing that room together. I've had two babies. There's 43 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 2: no way in hell I take my clothes off in 44 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 2: front of anybody if I'm not going to be kind 45 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: at that moment to another wonderful human. Of course, I'm 46 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 2: going to do all those things. And it's as it 47 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 2: should be, don't you agree? I mean, that's how we're 48 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 2: supposed to nurture and love one another. We have tough jobs, 49 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 2: and we were car You work long hours, and when 50 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 2: you're pregnant and not feeling great, especially those first three months, 51 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 2: you need a little love, my love. So you're very welcome. 52 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 7: Oh my god, I love you so much. I was 53 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:13,119 Speaker 7: very lucky to have you. 54 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 3: I was never pregnant on the show that we worked 55 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 3: on together, but you gave me, you know that much, Betsy, 56 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 3: I'm actually eighty five percent sure, So I'm not fully sure. 57 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: But check out what spread the rumor, just to be 58 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:28,239 Speaker 2: certain we could. 59 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 3: But Lynn, going into those rooms and your offices when 60 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 3: you you knew you had that first fitting for the 61 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 3: first season of or the fifth season of the show, 62 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 3: it was just it was just really fun because everybody 63 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 3: in that department was always so much fun and kind 64 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 3: and loving, and and you have to you know, you're 65 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 3: changing into like fifteen different or for other actors, it 66 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 3: was like fifty different outfits. It was so much fun. 67 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 3: And you get to the point where I'd be like, 68 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 3: you guys, don't even close the curtain anymore. I'm fine, 69 00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 3: I'm just gonna just stay in the room like. 70 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 6: Oh yeah, same, I didn't get because you're just so 71 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 6: comfortable with you guys. 72 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, But I feel like that's the dance we do, 73 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 2: don't you. And I feel like that is a how 74 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: I approach what I do is start with kindness. In 75 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 2: the back of your head, you're thinking the whole time, 76 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 2: I've got to get this done. I've got to get 77 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 2: this done. I have an hour. I only have an 78 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 2: hour with this person. But also going to make you 79 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 2: feel comfortable and that it's a safe space because you 80 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 2: tell me things in that room that you might not 81 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 2: tell other people, any other people. I always remember stock 82 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 2: At Channing always called it the confessional when I worked 83 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 2: with her, because it was like this phone of silence, 84 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: And John Spencer called it his therapy session, like he 85 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 2: would lay on the couch, you know, as we're oh 86 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 2: my god, we've done a lot of therapy in those rooms, 87 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 2: all of us. I mean, come on, oh oh. 88 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 5: God, I've tried. 89 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 6: I'm sure every actor has had some sort of breakdown. 90 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 6: I think it is because you're naked physically, emotionally, emotionally, 91 00:04:58,000 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 6: and mentally. 92 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 2: You're having to put your into another human. 93 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 4: That's where I think what's so interesting is it's this 94 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 4: you have created, and so much of the work is 95 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 4: all about creating this kind of sacred safe space where 96 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 4: you can see yourself and you're able to feel safe 97 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 4: to see yourself in the way that you need to 98 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 4: for a character, but also just you feel safe as 99 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 4: a person, so you can invest in that and even 100 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 4: as somebody who's not playing a character, except you know, 101 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 4: sometimes when I'm forced to in a meeting or something, 102 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 4: it's the same thing, where it's feeling safe enough to 103 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 4: be able to express who you really are and then 104 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 4: for you all be able to transform that into the character. 105 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 4: We've had so many conversations Lynn about with actors. If 106 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 4: they don't love what they're wearing, they're not going to 107 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 4: feel good doing their part. 108 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 7: And it's such a huge piece. 109 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 4: It's a disconnect I think a lot of producers and 110 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 4: writers have, which is you can't just shove somebody in 111 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 4: an outfit and no, you can certainly speak more to 112 00:05:58,200 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 4: that experience, Lynn. 113 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's lots of things to unpack in that. 114 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 2: And I love that you call this the toolbox, because 115 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 2: costumes are really a tool, aren't they. There's something that 116 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 2: you take that we work on together. That suddenly transforms 117 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 2: you into a different human, not yourself. You would wear 118 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 2: these clothes, you know, but you also have to feel 119 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 2: so comfortable in what you're wearing that it gives you 120 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 2: the freedom to be able to play that character. And 121 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 2: I think Betsy is so right in that. I've worked 122 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 2: with other people who should remain nameless, who told me 123 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 2: early on in my career, you don't give actors the option. 124 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 2: You give them this one or this one. You give 125 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 2: them two choices, and you limit because if you give 126 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 2: them too many options, it'll take too much time. You 127 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 2: end up in the wrong place. And I think that's 128 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: exactly the wrong way to approach costume design, and that 129 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 2: the relationship with the actors should never be one where 130 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 2: you don't have open lines of communication. I think that's 131 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 2: so important that you feel safe with me. That's number 132 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 2: one thing when you first meet an actor for them, 133 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 2: I always say, and you'll remember this, let's talk. What 134 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 2: are you feeling. 135 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 7: Yeah, you always say that, let's talk. 136 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 2: How do you feel about this character and how do 137 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: you see this character? Because it's important for you to 138 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 2: feel safe with me. But also, by extension, working with 139 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 2: Betsy Shonda other producers that I work with. I need 140 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 2: that open communication there too, because a writer might have 141 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 2: a vision of a person in their head, a character, 142 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: but they cast someone who's so very very different from 143 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 2: what they wrote on the page. So they also have 144 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 2: to be flexible in that you work with the actor 145 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 2: to create the character, and then you present that to 146 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 2: the producer and you have to work together and go 147 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 2: back and forth, well let's change this, let's do this 148 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 2: so that we all in a great way come together 149 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:52,679 Speaker 2: and say, yeah, we have it. And that's a great 150 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 2: moment for everyone. It's great for you, it's great for 151 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 2: the producer. Then, Betsy and you and I have been 152 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 2: doing this recently, like how do we get to this 153 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: character being what was envisioned in the writer's head? And 154 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 2: it's such a collaboration and I feel it should never 155 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 2: be antagonistic, because if it becomes that, then you've lost. 156 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 2: It's a dance and it's a conversation. And I love 157 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 2: that part of my job. I love that we all 158 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 2: work together as a community. You build that community and 159 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 2: it's full of joy and love and creativity. Like there's 160 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 2: nothing better than when an actor turns to you in 161 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 2: a room and that says, this is the right costume 162 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 2: for the character. It's such a lovely moment for everybody 163 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 2: in the room. 164 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 4: I always say that everybody wears clothes. So the challenge 165 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 4: sometimes of this job is that everyone has an opinion 166 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 4: because everyone wears clothes, Like everybody doesn't really have an 167 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 4: opinion for the DP because they don't know what the 168 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 4: hell he's doing. 169 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:50,839 Speaker 7: They're doing such a good point. 170 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 4: So you also have a peanut gallery of people constantly 171 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 4: at you saying, you know, Lynn, I don't think she'd 172 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 4: wear those shoes, and it's like, no, you wouldn't wear 173 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 4: those shoes. And I think over the years one of 174 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 4: the things which certainly in my job has been part 175 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 4: of the key is to try to keep that noise 176 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 4: away because Lynn, I feel like that's so much of 177 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,839 Speaker 4: the challenge every day is everybody bringing in and they 178 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 4: come in and think, well, this is this is what 179 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 4: i'd wear, And you go, well, then why didn't you 180 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 4: cast yourself. 181 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 7: And your style? 182 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: But you can't say any of that. 183 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 5: But you can't say any of them. 184 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,239 Speaker 4: But I'm saying it because we're unpacking the toolbox. 185 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: Unpack that toolbox. That's see. I would say, yes, we 186 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 2: all get dressed every day, and yes, the DP is 187 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 2: a mystery often to all of us in different ways. Yes, 188 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 2: most people don't know how to be a costume design. 189 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: And I feel the relationships you build early on in 190 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 2: your career with producers like you and Shonda and my 191 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: friend John Wells. You build relationships where the producer starts 192 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 2: to trust you, and trust is so important where those 193 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 2: conversations stop happening because what you wear during the day 194 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 2: or I wear during the day is not what that 195 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 2: character would wear, and it's also not what would look 196 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 2: good on camera. And that's the thing. A lot of 197 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 2: younger producers no offense to anyone listening, do not understand 198 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: that this has to translate to set the set design, 199 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 2: to the lighting, to the person, the human that you 200 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 2: are dressing. That you have to consider. And that's why 201 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 2: earlier I was saying, what a write a season their head, 202 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 2: But then through the casting process they go for the 203 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 2: best actor, which might not be the description that you'd 204 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 2: written in your script. So things evolve and things change, 205 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 2: and none of us can be rigid. All of us 206 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 2: have to be flexible. It's a communication art, and we 207 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 2: have to communicate. I find now I'm very selective about 208 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 2: the people I'd love to work with, and those conversations 209 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 2: for me at this point in my career don't happen 210 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 2: as much. There's great and something I say to young 211 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 2: costume designers, which is find your people and be loyal 212 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 2: to your people and stay with your people because you 213 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 2: learn there are certain people that you have a shorthand with. 214 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 2: And once that shorthand is established. 215 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:17,199 Speaker 7: Oh what a dream. 216 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 2: The work can be more and it should be and 217 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 2: I believe in my heart it should be with the 218 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 2: actor in the fitting room. That is where the work 219 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 2: really takes place, because if Katie and Guilliamo are not comfortable, 220 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 2: they're not going to be able to perform. 221 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 6: Yeah, how in the hell did you get into this? Like, 222 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 6: I don't understand how someone becomes a costume designer. It 223 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 6: seems as impossible as making it as a producer or 224 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 6: an actor or a DP. 225 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 2: I feel for me, my story is different than most 226 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 2: people because this was not what I wanted to do. 227 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 2: I did not know that this job existed, and so 228 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 2: it's very important to me as a costume designer to 229 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 2: go to colleges and talked to kids that might not 230 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 2: have had the access that I have now had to 231 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 2: this industry to explain what my job really is. So 232 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 2: that's the first part. I grew up coal miner's daughter, 233 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 2: no clue about the film or television industry, went to university, 234 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: met an American who I spoke to you this morning. 235 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 2: We're still good friends, my ex husband, and moved to 236 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 2: the States not knowing anyone. I arrived with one suitcase, nothing, 237 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 2: I didn't know anybody, and slowly found my way into 238 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 2: the film industry. Worked as a PA. 239 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 6: Oh my god, I did know that, and I cannot 240 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 6: imagine it. 241 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:39,959 Speaker 7: Wow. 242 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 2: I did craft service with gentlemen yelling at me because 243 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: I didn't have the right coffee that they liked. And 244 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 2: then I got into the DGA and realized I didn't 245 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 2: want to do that job. I did not want to 246 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 2: knock on that door of that trailer every morning to 247 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 2: get anybody out of the room. 248 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,599 Speaker 6: I am so shy by this. I have known you 249 00:12:58,720 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 6: for one hundred years. 250 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 2: Of this, Well, it's crazy. 251 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 4: Where were you exactly physically doing all this stuff all 252 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 4: over the country. 253 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 2: No, No, I came to LA came right to LA 254 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 2: and worked in commercials doing you know, styling. It's so 255 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 2: weird that I was working as a production coordinator because 256 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 2: I thought, oh, I'll go into production. I've got a 257 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 2: good head. I think I could produce. So I was 258 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 2: learning how to be a producer, you know, commercials. My 259 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 2: boss at the time, Richard Kern, said, our stylist didn't show. 260 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 2: We'd love Linn, could you do this for us? So 261 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 2: it's how I started. It was by chance, and oh 262 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 2: my god. Also back then, I got to be honest, 263 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 2: there weren't a lot of women in our business. There 264 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 2: were no female ads that I knew of. I mean, Betsy, 265 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 2: you'll speak to this. Most of the women in our 266 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 2: business did hair, actually hair, not make up, because makeup 267 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 2: artists were men generally, and costumes. And I really thought 268 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 2: my brain, I was good with math, and I was 269 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,719 Speaker 2: really good with organization, and I thought the producing and 270 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 2: was more what I was interested in. But then I 271 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 2: fell into costumes, and then I ended up loving it 272 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 2: and ended up doing a lot of music videos, lots 273 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 2: of big commercials. And that's slowly how I started. 274 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 7: Any music video artists that we know of. 275 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 2: I worked on a Madonna as an assistant no at 276 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 2: Raleigh Studios. 277 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, do you remember the video? 278 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 2: I think it was material Girl I'm not sure. 279 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 5: No, it's so long ago. 280 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 2: I worked with all the big director you know, commercial directors, 281 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 2: and then I had my daughter and decided that world 282 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 2: wasn't for me and I needed something a little more stable, 283 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 2: and I started looking for work in television and I 284 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 2: was very fortunate to just sort of fall into it. 285 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 2: That's my story. Very insecure about that story early on 286 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 2: in my career because I kept saying, oh, yeah, I 287 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 2: kept thinking I didn't go to school to do this. 288 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 2: Oh God, if people find out that I don't have 289 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 2: a degree in costume design, they're not going to hire me. 290 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 2: And then after twenty years I finally got over that bit. 291 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 2: But that was my start. And my degree is in 292 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 2: education teaching. 293 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 4: Oh wow, which you use every day. Wow, you educate 294 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 4: people constantly. I do think it's interesting that a lot 295 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 4: of people, I mean I fell into what I was doing. 296 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 4: It's more common than you know, and it's part of 297 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 4: the reason why it's so interesting to hear this. And 298 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 4: also for people don't know how to get into the business. 299 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 4: Very often you get in sideways or the skill that 300 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 4: you think you don't see as your valuable skill actually 301 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 4: is your superpower exactly. 302 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 303 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 4: So when you started doing it, did you know immediately 304 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 4: like this is good? 305 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 5: I like this. 306 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 2: No, I think I cried a lot. I think there 307 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 2: were a lot of tears earlier. I was fortunate in 308 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 2: the people were kind. Do you know that there was 309 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 2: a great deal of kindness for me. My first job 310 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 2: was a set person of All Shows Dallas, which I 311 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 2: used to watch as a young woman in England and 312 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 2: never thought I would meet any of those actors, do 313 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 2: you know? And they took me under their wing, and 314 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 2: the leads of that show went to the producer and said, 315 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 2: this kid's wasted on the set. You should move her up. 316 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 2: And Lenny Katzman, who was the producer at the time, said, 317 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 2: are you kidding you know it's a huge show. And 318 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 2: they said no, no, she's smart and she's on it 319 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 2: and she's paying attention, and they moved me up. The 320 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 2: next season, they gave me shoulder job designing. I loved 321 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 2: the shoulder pads. By the way, they need to come 322 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 2: still shoulder shoulder. But I only did one year with 323 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 2: was the final year. I did the very final year 324 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 2: of that show with a lot of amazing actors, and 325 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 2: then from that show I was recommended for another show. 326 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 2: It's my second show ever and it was set in 327 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 2: the nineteen forties and I won an Emmy my second 328 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 2: year in the business. What what I mean think I 329 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 2: was at twenty six, twenty five, and again sheer luck. 330 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 2: The people that ran that first show, Lenny Katzman in 331 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 2: that group recommended me to Lynn Latham and Bernie Lakewock. 332 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 2: They said, you're going to love her. They gave me 333 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 2: their show, my second show, period piece nineteen forties, great 334 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 2: actors on that one, and won an Emmy two years 335 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 2: in a row on that show. And so that was it. 336 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 2: And then Chris Truelock introduced me to John Wells. So 337 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 2: it was like this, I was just in the right 338 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 2: place at the right time, which I think, Betsy, you'll 339 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 2: speak to That is something that happens a lot. Yeah, 340 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 2: that you meet people and then all of a sudden 341 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 2: they carry you with them for the rest of the journey. 342 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 2: We still work together. 343 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 1: Now we'll be right back, guys. 344 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 6: I've been working in Shondalanzlo's Garamo now for well over 345 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 6: a decade as of you, so like, yes, we are 346 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 6: part of a amazing group of people that carries people 347 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 6: along when there is like a natural and organic collaboration. 348 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 7: But what I don't understand a lot. 349 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 6: What I see is so obviously being a costume designer 350 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 6: For those of you listening who don't understand, no, Like, 351 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 6: not only is it design and clothing, you have to 352 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 6: be able to lead a very large team of wardrobe 353 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:42,679 Speaker 6: set dressers and shoppers and people returning making returns like 354 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 6: you're running a huge department. You have to be able 355 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 6: to budget and deal with all these financial proposals of 356 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 6: what the costumes cost and deal with the producers on that. 357 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 6: And then there's so much about time management and making 358 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 6: sure you're getting every single person dressed for whatever day 359 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 6: is upon you you and then planning ahead for the 360 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 6: next episode. I mean, it is the most insane organizational 361 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 6: skills in leadership, which you obviously had in spades. 362 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 7: But what I don't. 363 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 6: Understand is how do you have how did you learn 364 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 6: the taste of how to actually custom design? 365 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 3: And how do you how do you have time to. 366 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 2: There is no eating, so I mean. 367 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 6: I don't understand how do you went from a nineteen 368 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 6: forties show and like did you are you feverishly researching 369 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 6: and colors and like how did you? 370 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 7: Is that just you naturally were gifted. 371 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 2: I'm not sure what that is, to be honest, I mean, 372 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 2: I feel it's an interesting balance costume design. And that's 373 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 2: something I teach when I go to universities now, is 374 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 2: that you have to be right brain, left brain. If 375 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,239 Speaker 2: you're going to be really good at this, you have 376 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 2: to have both sides working because you have to stay 377 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 2: on budget. You've got to be smart about managing time, people, expectations, schedules, 378 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 2: all of that. You've just got to be super organized. 379 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 2: And I recently had another costume designer, she's now a 380 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 2: costume designer who used to work for me, who said, 381 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 2: I still use your methods of organization. I tell everybody 382 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 2: follow this, this is how you should do it. But 383 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 2: then the other half of your brain is focused on 384 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 2: the look of the show. And that's the bit I love, 385 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 2: because I like to spend a lot of time alone 386 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 2: just thinking and looking at art movies from the thirties, forties, fifties, 387 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 2: all TV shows, fashion magazines, anything. I mean a pinterest freak. 388 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 2: I pin and I create boards and you have to 389 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 2: get your head into the mindset. And I have found 390 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,479 Speaker 2: when I look back at pictures of myself on all 391 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 2: these different projects. I did a Vietnam war movie, and 392 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 2: by the end of that movie, I realized I was 393 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 2: only wearing green do you know, Like what the hell 394 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 2: I was in Camo? 395 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 4: Basically, So basically it's like you do immersion. 396 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 2: You do you immerse yourself into that world. Now, if 397 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 2: I did a mass murderer movie, the hopefully I wouldn't 398 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 2: turn into, like, you know, a crazy person or more 399 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 2: crazy than I am. 400 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 5: But maybe maybe you would dress like one. 401 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 2: But I would dress like what I would wear that hoodie. 402 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 2: So yeah, I find that's how I approach it. I 403 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 2: have to really immerse myself in the period or the 404 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 2: heads of the characters, or you know what someone writes 405 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 2: in the script, the first couple of lines the description 406 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 2: of a character, which we all have experienced that at 407 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 2: shondaland in the different shows. So it's a tricky dance 408 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 2: and I think you have to be a little mad 409 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 2: to do it. 410 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 3: We all were all. We all have to be a 411 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 3: little mad to business. 412 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you work those hours and. 413 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 3: Lynn, I think what people don't realize too is with 414 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 3: this process of dressing a character, the look that you 415 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 3: have for season one and two changes at season three 416 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 3: and at season four. It's a constant process that you 417 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 3: have to work with the actor right with yourself and 418 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 3: figure out, oh, they've evolved, they're different now. Now they're 419 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 3: gonna wear leather and leather boots and tight black jeans. Right, 420 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 3: because Katie's character went from wearing huge pencil skirts and 421 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 3: like blouses to like hot leather jackets and a tight black. 422 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 2: Turtle because she evolved because of your character's suggestions to her. 423 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,479 Speaker 2: You brought her into your world. And so like any human, 424 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 2: like any of us sitting here right now, you grow 425 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 2: or you become psychotic Katie, sorry, and so that has 426 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 2: to be represented and nailed it. 427 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 5: That's right. 428 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 4: Or you know what's as hard in a different way 429 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 4: is this idea that So sometimes there's a gigantic shift 430 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 4: in a character, but then there are other times where 431 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 4: you're in season four or five in the character you 432 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 4: have to figure out very subtle ways of adjusting characters 433 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 4: because they haven't adjusted that much. And you're dealing with 434 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 4: an actor who rightfully is like, I can't keep wearing 435 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 4: these shoes for the next forty five years, and a 436 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 4: producer saying, I don't want them to change, though I 437 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 4: don't want them to change. So how do you address 438 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 4: stealth transformation? 439 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 3: Yes, so well, But because so much. 440 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 4: Of what you do is almost subliminal, the. 441 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 2: Word I always use to my crew is that we 442 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 2: have to have nuance. It may be in the script 443 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 2: or I might have seen a script three episodes from 444 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 2: the one we're working on, or an outline where I 445 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 2: know where a character is going to go, and how 446 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 2: do I go from A to B without it being silly. 447 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 2: We've got to respect the intelligence of the audience and 448 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 2: respect the writing. And you can't just leap from Katie 449 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 2: in her little pencil skirts to Katie and leather. There 450 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 2: has to be an arc to that story. And I 451 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 2: feel that's that's the nuance of costume designers. How do 452 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,239 Speaker 2: I get from here to hear without being jarring? And 453 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 2: it might be some as simple as you introduce a 454 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 2: gray so the character is in the gray phase. And 455 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 2: it can be color, it can be silhouette. It could 456 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,199 Speaker 2: be the shoes. I mean, so many actors say to me, 457 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 2: if the shoe is right for this character, and that's 458 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 2: all I need. My feet are in their shoes now. 459 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 2: So I will say, in general, every show is different, 460 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 2: every character is different. You just have to listen and 461 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 2: read and pay attention to the words, listen to your actor, 462 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 2: listen to your producer, listen to your director, and then 463 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,239 Speaker 2: have your opinion too. And it all goes back to, 464 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 2: you know, how do we get there without it detracting 465 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 2: from the words and the action, because you don't want 466 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 2: to do something that is going to jaw the audience 467 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 2: out of the story. 468 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 4: And you want to keep your actors engaged too, because 469 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 4: it's Girma and Katie, I mean, it's that's a lot 470 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,880 Speaker 4: of it for you too, is oh yeah, everybody feeling 471 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 4: excited about where they're potent going or what they're wearing totally, 472 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 4: and that. 473 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 2: Can be quite difficult. I've worked on shows that went 474 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 2: fifteen years, you know, fifteen seasons of a show, So 475 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 2: how do you keep that fresh? 476 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 7: I want to know that feeling, to. 477 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 2: Know that it's a tricky dance. 478 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 4: It is a tricky dance. And then there's the other issue. 479 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 4: Now it's just like we all come from the years 480 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 4: of twenty five episodes of a show, and now with streaming, 481 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 4: if you only have eight episodes per show per season, 482 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 4: sometimes transformation happens slower. And you know, for all of 483 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 4: those people who are in the midst of it. Yeah, 484 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 4: they've been doing it, but for an audience, they've only 485 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 4: seen eight episodes, so they've only seen seven episodes. So 486 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 4: also switching your brain back and forth to the pace 487 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 4: at which people are going to consume the product, and 488 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 4: then how you sort of process change. 489 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I find that I'm actually missing the twenty two 490 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 2: episodes only because you had even though it was exhausting. 491 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 2: I mean, don't get me wrong, Christmas Wash you're two 492 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 2: weeks off and then maybe you've got three or four 493 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 2: weeks off every summer. But but I love the long 494 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 2: storyline to each character. You take them all the way 495 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 2: through these six to eight episodes. I love that too, 496 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 2: because your energy has to be, oh my, we've got 497 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 2: eight let's get it, you know, like let's deep dive. 498 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 2: So I also love that like a movie. Yeah, exactly, 499 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 2: and joyful too. And also working with you at Shondaland, 500 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 2: I've had this great experience of being on shows that 501 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 2: are you know, one minute I'm in DC doing a 502 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 2: show about the Belt Weigh of what happens Now, the 503 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 2: next minute I'm in England doing shows about Regency England. Ah, 504 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 2: you never got that in the one hour drama. You 505 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 2: didn't get that much diversity in one or two years 506 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 2: of work. You were doing the same thing. So I'm 507 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 2: enjoying the challenge of jumping from one show to another 508 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 2: and having it be a short time of working because 509 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 2: I'm in different places a lot more often. And that's 510 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 2: creating a new world every eight months, which is, I 511 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 2: think is what we all are doing. We're creating a 512 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 2: world that's also joyful. 513 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,719 Speaker 6: The other thing that I mean, in another life, if 514 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 6: I was ever a costume designer, I think the funnest 515 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 6: thing ever would be to just shop on somebody else's 516 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 6: dime for like millions of dollars, Like are you kidding? 517 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,120 Speaker 6: Like you get to just shop your face off and 518 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 6: everybody who's in your department, and like, this is the budget, 519 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 6: and it's usually it's way bigger than like my personal budget, 520 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 6: and you're not sitting there thinking, oh shit, I should 521 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 6: really wait until that thing is on sale. 522 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 2: Oh we do think about that, though, Katie. 523 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 7: You guys are shopping and you're good at that. 524 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 2: Oh I love to shop. You've been shopping with me, Katie, 525 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 2: you know. 526 00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 7: Oh, Lynn is the best shopper. 527 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 2: I'd like the rats no no, no, yes, no, no, no, 528 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 2: yes that again. You know, my job has changed. From 529 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 2: the early days of my career, shows were much smaller 530 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,719 Speaker 2: and I would shop a lot. Now I don't I 531 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 2: have buyers because the shows have become so huge and 532 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 2: so complicated. I will tell you I spend eighty percent 533 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 2: of my day in a fitting room apart from a 534 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 2: budget meeting or a production meeting. I don't really leave 535 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 2: the office anymore because our world has just completely changed 536 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 2: now because of you know, online buying, which is where 537 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 2: a lot of the work gets done now. And I 538 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 2: actually missed the days where I got to go out 539 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 2: and shop more. But also I will remind you, Katie 540 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 2: that none of those things belong to me and I 541 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 2: can't wear any of them, so when you go shopping, 542 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 2: it's a slightly different experience, my love. 543 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 6: Oh, you're right, yeah, my daydream really first for you. 544 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 2: I'm sorry. And also, by the way, most of those 545 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 2: things wouldn't fit me. 546 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 6: Oh, we will be back with more after the break. 547 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 6: The other thing I was going to say, that's just 548 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 6: a little tidbit. It's not really a question for all 549 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 6: of you listening. That's really fun about Lynn Powlow is 550 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 6: that she is your best friend in Keyan too, getting 551 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 6: a nice text because she's episodes ahead of you when 552 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 6: she says you're gonna be very very scantily dressed or 553 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 6: naked in about eleven days, but don't tell anyone that 554 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 6: I told you. And you're like, oh shit, well, this weekend, 555 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 6: maybe I will back away from the taking a whole 556 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 6: Domino's pizza, folding it in half and the mouth or 557 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 6: like whatever it is too. 558 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 2: I'm even more choose than that. My text are usually 559 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 2: you know that dinner you were talking about, maybe you 560 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 2: shouldn't be doing. You know, it's like because I don't 561 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 2: want to actually tell you it's in the script because 562 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 2: then it would be giving it away. But I'm sort 563 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 2: of giving you a nudge of, oh, well, you know, 564 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 2: if I were you, If I were you, I'd hit 565 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 2: the gym this weekend. 566 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 6: Because nobody wants to have like a bloated hangover on 567 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 6: like a sex scene day. 568 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 7: Nobody wants to look. 569 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 2: That's the confessional, isn't it. That's it stays in the 570 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 2: fitting room. It stays there. You have both told me 571 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 2: things that I would never repeat ever until I write 572 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 2: my book when I retire. 573 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 7: G kidding shit, I never made you. 574 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 2: Sign da no NDAs in the fitting room. That could 575 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 2: be the title of my book. Yeah, yeah, that's I mean, 576 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 2: that's part of trust, being an advocate for the actor, 577 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 2: and I think that's super important because I know I 578 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 2: couldn't do what you do. I know for a fact 579 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 2: there's no way. I actually have had a couple of 580 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 2: bit parts through my career where producers have gone louten, 581 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 2: could you walk on? And I froze like a deer 582 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 2: in the headlights. I love being behind the scenes and 583 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 2: I love I love actors, and I think you have 584 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 2: to love actors. If you don't love actors and you're 585 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 2: doing what I do for a living, you're in the wrong. 586 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 4: Job if you don't love actors, for any of us, 587 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 4: including the actors actors. If you don't love actors, you're 588 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 4: probably in trouble too, because you spent a lot. 589 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 2: Of time with them. 590 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,479 Speaker 4: But I feel the same way, in which is if 591 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 4: you don't love actors, and if you don't, if it 592 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 4: isn't first front in your mind making sure that there's 593 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 4: an environment in which they can work, and for you especially, 594 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 4: you are really the actor's advocate. Everybody else all day long, 595 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 4: is thinking about a billion other things, and most of 596 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,479 Speaker 4: us are advocating this show. But you are you and 597 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 4: you know, and I think in a lot of ways, 598 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 4: hair and makeup are the departments where it's the first place. 599 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 4: Certainly as a producer, I always go and say, how's 600 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 4: everyone feeling, what's the general mood, because you all are 601 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 4: the folks are who are ground zero and can set 602 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 4: a tone for Katie and g You all to be 603 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 4: functioning at your best. 604 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 2: And I think Katie and Billy Elmer you would both 605 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 2: agree that the hair and makeup first thing in the morning. 606 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 2: They're the people you talk to you're in your chair 607 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 2: or for hours sometimes and then in the fitting room. 608 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 2: For me, it's I've had a difficult transition over the 609 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 2: last eight to ten years. That with the advent of 610 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 2: intimacy coordinators, which is amazing that we have them now 611 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 2: and I think that's remarkable and as it should be. 612 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 2: But for so long, costumes were the intimacy coordinators. 613 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 7: And I know for a firm, yeah, totally. 614 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 2: I have stood on the set and told directors are 615 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 2: expressed my displeasure at how an actor was being treated. 616 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 2: And I was fortunate enough to be in a safe 617 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 2: enough space to have that voice working with people that 618 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 2: I was working with. And that's been tricky for me 619 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 2: as a costume designer because now I get a call 620 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 2: from the he's amazing person who's protecting or after saying 621 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 2: well we need this, this and this, and I'm thinking, oh, yeah, 622 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 2: I've been doing that for thirty years, you know in 623 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 2: my head right right, But what an amazing change in 624 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 2: our business that you have that safety. And I think 625 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 2: it's amazing that you have someone on the set with 626 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 2: you now because a lot of the times I couldn't 627 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 2: be there. 628 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 7: I forgot about that. 629 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 6: Like your customer that's on set, Like if you're doing 630 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 6: a sex scene and you're standing there in a naked 631 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 6: or banana hammock or a g string or whatever, Like 632 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 6: the first person that's like waiting for you with your 633 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 6: robe is your dresser and you're just like you. They 634 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 6: can't get to you fast enough, and they're the person 635 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 6: advocating for you, looking at you in. 636 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 7: The eye like are you okay? Do you need anything? 637 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 6: I've even had my dressers being like and I would 638 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 6: talk to them about it in advance, like, Hey, if 639 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 6: I'm doing something that doesn't look great, can you just 640 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 6: like tell me to like move a little bit or 641 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 6: something that the angling or like you know whatever, Yes, 642 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 6: the angle and things like that, and they are with you, 643 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 6: ey'd eye operating, and you feel so trusting with them. 644 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,239 Speaker 6: I actually haven't been on a set yet with an 645 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 6: intimacy coordinator, have you, G. 646 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 2: I haven't either, I think because of the other shows 647 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,399 Speaker 2: I worked on while I was working with you guys, 648 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 2: I was running back and forth and there was a 649 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 2: lot of nudity on that other show. And yes, I 650 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 2: just think it's such an important thing and I am 651 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 2: so happy our business is addressing that now because it's 652 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 2: a lot of pressure for a set person, I feel so. 653 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 2: I think it's a huge It's a huge change in 654 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 2: our business. It takes a lot of pressure off the 655 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 2: costume department. 656 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:32,919 Speaker 3: Too, off of you guys. 657 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's also amazing for the actor. 658 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 7: One other thing I was thinking about. 659 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 6: One of my favorite fitting stories you have is when 660 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 6: G and I were doing fittings for our show. We 661 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 6: would have leather jackets and flannels and cool T shirts 662 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 6: and jeans and all different kinds of boots and things. 663 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,360 Speaker 6: And then at the same time you were doing a 664 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 6: show that took place in Chicago, I believe, and the 665 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 6: family was incredibly dysfunctional and poor, and it was starring 666 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,439 Speaker 6: Bill Macy, I think, And I was such a Bill 667 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 6: Macy fan, like, tell me what it's like, and it's like, oh, 668 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:08,359 Speaker 6: dressing him. You just take use disgusting clothes, fling them 669 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 6: on the floor in a pile and tell him to pick. 670 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 6: And I'm like, that artistry to me always stuck with me, 671 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 6: that you could be that creative to be going from 672 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 6: the Beltway and white coats and you know, every the 673 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 6: one's in a pea coat and making sure they're looking 674 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 6: correct for the DC world and then to just this 675 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 6: complete disgusting, debaucherous like homeless, drug messed up, dysfunctional families. 676 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 3: And he always looks so good. Yeah, it was so appropriate. 677 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 6: Yeah, you would just fling used clothes on the floor 678 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 6: and tell them to pick. 679 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 2: Well, that's Bill's favorite story from that show is that 680 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 2: we never had a costume fitting, which is not true, 681 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 2: by the way. We did have as we had one 682 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 2: of the beginning, and there were other moments where he 683 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 2: was like in a chicken suit whatever. But that's what 684 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 2: I was trying to express earlier about eight episodes versus 685 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 2: twenty four. One of the great thrills for me at 686 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,439 Speaker 2: that time was to be with you guys on one 687 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 2: show and you're dealing with this Scotta and Prada and 688 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,280 Speaker 2: black leather and thigh high boots and you know, looking 689 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 2: great for DC and your crazy world within that show. 690 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 2: And then I'd drive to Warner Brothers and I'd be 691 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 2: you know, aging clothes and flannels on them too, but 692 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,439 Speaker 2: also T shirts and putting holes in clothes and making 693 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,479 Speaker 2: sure everything looked really, really, really worn in. So that's 694 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,919 Speaker 2: a great joy as a costume designer to have those 695 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 2: two worlds to work in. I'm very lucky, very fortunate 696 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 2: to work with the people I work with, very fortunate 697 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 2: to work at shondaland to be part of that team. 698 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 2: I'm forever grateful. I'm allowed to play and do my 699 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 2: job in a space where you nurture me bits and 700 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,919 Speaker 2: you guys nurture everyone. You know, you bring us up? 701 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 5: Well do you bring up up? 702 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 4: Because whoa look at the character and spirit and theme 703 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 4: and everything else which is always embodied in the work 704 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 4: that you do. First of all, Lynn can do five 705 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 4: jobs at the same time, and she doesn't break a 706 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 4: sweat and you never see you never see anything but 707 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 4: the most incredible dedication and focus on what you're doing. 708 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 4: It's a producer's fantasy that you go, great, these two 709 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 4: jobs couldn't be more different. 710 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 3: Crazy. 711 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 5: That leads me though, too. 712 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,439 Speaker 4: Is there something you haven't gotten to do that you 713 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 4: really really would love to do? 714 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 2: Yeah? You know, it's so interesting you should say that. 715 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 2: And I almost have the opportunity. I was offered a 716 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 2: feature film and it was one of the Star Treks, 717 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 2: my huge sci fi fan, and I couldn't do it. 718 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 5: I didn't know that. 719 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 2: Wow, Oh I love science fiction. I just don't think 720 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,839 Speaker 2: it's in the charts for me because of the world 721 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 2: that I inhabit now and it's that thing that And 722 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 2: this is just a quick story. After I won my 723 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 2: two Emmys early on in my career, I then went 724 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 2: through six months of not working because no one would 725 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 2: hire me because they said I only did period shows, 726 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 2: which is crazy because I think every single show you 727 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 2: do is just a new world and you're creating that 728 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 2: world and it doesn't it doesn't matter what period is. 729 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 2: It's like saying to an actor, oh, you are on 730 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,760 Speaker 2: a show about Washington, DC. You can only do shows 731 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 2: about Washington, DC. That's I don't understand that mindset anyway. 732 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 2: So I couldn't get arrested, I couldn't get any job. 733 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 2: Thank god for John Wells, who then offered me that 734 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:35,360 Speaker 2: medical show. But I have never done anything science fiction, 735 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 2: and it drives me crazy because I'm a huge Isaac Asimov. 736 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 2: I mean, I read Oh my God, like I would 737 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 2: have I would have loved to have done due do 738 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,720 Speaker 2: you know what I mean that really? And I haven't 739 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 2: had that opportunity. Maybe it'll happen. I don't know, we'll see. 740 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 4: Well, the good news is we're all obsessed with science 741 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,919 Speaker 4: fiction too, as you know we are. 742 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,879 Speaker 7: Everyone on this podcast wants to do science. 743 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,080 Speaker 2: Company is So isn't that crazy that we're all into it? 744 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:01,399 Speaker 5: Well, but it's to your point. 745 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 4: It's like I think you get into When we were 746 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 4: doing like promotion for stuff last fall, anytime anybody said 747 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 4: to Shonda, what do you want to do next? I 748 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 4: would say comedy and she'd go science fiction. I really 749 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 4: want to do something science fiction or nearified, because we 750 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 4: all we all love that, but you do get pigeonholed 751 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,880 Speaker 4: everybody we all want to do something. It's like for 752 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 4: you all, especially Katin Germo who'd been on long, long 753 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:27,360 Speaker 4: running shows. 754 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 5: It's all you want to do is. 755 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 4: Do something different and totally prove that you can do 756 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 4: something different. And also because it's the only way you 757 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,840 Speaker 4: keep growing. Like I always go like, there's one motto 758 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 4: with what we do in that's we do not do 759 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,800 Speaker 4: the same thing twice. Don't do if you do a spinoff, 760 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 4: it's not the same show. You do an entirely different show. 761 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 2: Agreed. 762 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 3: Unless they offer you a lot of money, then I'd. 763 00:39:54,200 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 4: Be like, all right, all right, you know, maybe I 764 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 4: could do a very special Christmas special. 765 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,320 Speaker 5: I'll don't do that. It's a lot of money. 766 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,760 Speaker 7: Ho ho he So funny. 767 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 2: I have been offered i think four medical dramas after 768 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 2: the long running one that I worked on, and I 769 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 2: have said no, sure because fifteen years of the same characters. 770 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 2: I don't want to do that again. You know you 771 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 2: did it, yo. 772 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,440 Speaker 7: I'm so jealous for those actors. 773 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:30,880 Speaker 6: Man, they're in sweatpants and years for the no makeup dream. 774 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,319 Speaker 6: You know, I have so many different sides, Like I 775 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 6: like that sounds like heaven, but I also I am like, 776 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 6: if I don't get to wear a corset, at some 777 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,319 Speaker 6: point for like a while and do a period thing. 778 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,319 Speaker 2: I'm gonna you'd be hot in a cossut. I mean, 779 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 2: oh my god, Now what I see you like is 780 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 2: like the buxome wench on it in a pirate movie. 781 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,800 Speaker 4: I'll do a box of wine. 782 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,359 Speaker 7: Yeah, I love it. I love it. 783 00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 2: Hillama would look good in a corset too, I could 784 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 2: be sure, be my pleasure. 785 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 5: Ge you go. 786 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 3: And you know who made the corset famous? 787 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 4: Well? 788 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 2: Did she famous? Did she did terry mugle and make 789 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 2: it famous? 790 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 3: I don't know that's true. That's true. She did. 791 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 2: She brought the corset back. 792 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:22,839 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, she. 793 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,280 Speaker 4: Didn't cheat, showed the corset and all of its corsetness. 794 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 2: Yes. I actually wore costs over T shirts back then 795 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 2: with a pair of jeans, because that was that's what 796 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 2: we did my early punk rock days. Do you think, yes? 797 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,719 Speaker 7: Oh yeah, hot you rascal. 798 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 2: Oh my god. I loved a bit of the sex pistols. Man. 799 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,360 Speaker 2: I had to sit as innocent T shirt, you know. 800 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,799 Speaker 2: I was like spray painting that all over London. I 801 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 2: think at some point, anyway. 802 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 4: Not only are you the most talented human being on earth, 803 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:07,399 Speaker 4: but you are the coolest it's so irritating. This has 804 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,719 Speaker 4: been like we could do this for hours, Yes, we 805 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 4: can get hours. 806 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 6: And we learned a ton of things about the woman 807 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 6: that I've known for a hundred years that I didn't 808 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,479 Speaker 6: even know half of those things. 809 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 7: Thank you for coming on Unpacking than story. 810 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:28,840 Speaker 2: Imagine if we've been drinking our red wine, we should 811 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,920 Speaker 2: have been having a wine. Ladies and gentlemen. I miss you, guys. 812 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 7: Thank you so much. We love you. We love you, 813 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,319 Speaker 7: we love you, we miss you. 814 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:46,040 Speaker 2: Take care of yourselves, okay. 815 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 6: Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex Alcea, Lauren Homan, 816 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 6: Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is 817 00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,400 Speaker 6: Vince de Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher. Unpacking the 818 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,719 Speaker 6: Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. 819 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,640 Speaker 6: For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app 820 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:17,719 Speaker 6: or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.