WEBVTT - Ep. 124: Drawing a Line on Technology 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:14.400 Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today, 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:18.400 I've got maybe my favorite guest on my most my. 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:21.040 Yeah, hey there he is, Hey Dirt, Oh hey there. 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:23.840 Uh no, I think I was looking. I said, you're 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.720 by far my most repeat guest. You've probably had twelve 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:29.480 or thirteen episodes with me that I've posted. 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:30.600 Holy count. Wow. 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:31.920 I appreciate having me back. 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:33.800 Do What is this kind of like on YouTube when 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:35.720 you get so many appearances, you get like a little 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.360 cool plaque and yeah, mail, I can, I can put 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:40.440 it on social media and put hanging on my wall. 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:44.680 Yeah yeah. No. In reality and all transparency, what happens 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:46.400 is when nobody else wants to be on my podcast 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:49.840 with me, I resort to Dirk so we can have conversations. 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:52.599 So you're playing second fiddle here, Dirk. But it's kind 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:53.840 of a pat on the back and a slap in 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:54.760 the face at the same time. 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:57.000 There. Well, I mean, I mean you stood, you've been 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:00.000 my boss for how long? And then you're just like, hey, 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:01.640 you need to do this and that, and you just 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:02.840 boss me around and I'm like, yess. 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:08.880 I felt like it was early this morning we're recording. 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.520 Here is all the Sportsman shows are getting kicked off, 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:15.440 and we've got got our workers traveling around and I 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:18.000 kind of came to you with my tail between my legs, like, Dirk, 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:20.480 do you mind hopping on the podcast here early this 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:23.000 morning so I don't just talk to myself? And here 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:23.280 we are. 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:27.000 Yeah, you interrupted my my morning procedure. You know, you 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:29.280 put you put the avovocado mask and the cucumbers on 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.200 your face, over your eyes and stuff and had to 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.560 wipe all that stuff off to do this. So I mean, 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:35.479 you look good. 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:38.840 You look good. It's been working. Yeah, and then you're 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:44.640 right here avocado toast after you I did. Yeah, that's 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:46.800 such a weird, weird food, but I'm gonna leave that alone. 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:49.560 Yeah, I wouldn't know what it tastes like, and I 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:50.160 never will. 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:53.880 I do like avocados, I do like toast. I just 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:57.960 never thought that we put those two together, right, all right? No, 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:00.880 we got Dirk here, and it's actually probably the most 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:04.400 perfect episode, or one of the most we've We've disagreed 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:07.200 and debated, and we may disagree and we may agree 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:08.519 on a lot of these issues, but we want to 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:12.760 talk about technology and how it relates to hunting. If 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.120 there should be aligned drawn if there shouldn't be aligning 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:18.600 drawn how we should how we look at it. I 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:20.120 don't want to say how we should look at it 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:21.960 as a group because I think everybody's going to like 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:24.360 have their own opinions. Right, there's no right or wrong answer, 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:27.360 And ultimately it may be up to these fish and 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.440 wildlife departments that we all love to bag on. But 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:34.040 it's not a very easy decision at times, right, how 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:35.400 are you going to handle this? Or how you going 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:38.480 to handle that? And I think a lot of just 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:43.400 personal opinion, ethics, morals, your definition of fair chase comes 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.280 into these. So we got a list of things, and 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:46.960 it's going to be more like a yay, nay, a 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.680 discussion on the wire, how come, and then we'll move 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:51.560 on to the next one. 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.040 So you realize, no matter what your opinion is, that 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:56.360 I'm going to take the opposite. 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:58.600 I there's some of them you can't here though. I 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:01.080 don't think I think we're we're gonna have to agree 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:03.400 on some but I know right off about we're going 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.720 to disagree on on on the first topic, okay at time, 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:08.440 and we will have a good discussion. I think we've 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:10.600 had this discussion before and maybe. 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:12.640 I'll even fight you a little bit and then secretly 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:13.400 agree with you. 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:14.960 Agree, like just real quick. 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:16.400 Yeah. 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:17.800 So the first thing, and we've had a lot of 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:20.640 conversations on this. Some states have band that some haven't 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:24.320 like your own. To my knowledge, it's the thermal vision, 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:30.440 thermal scopes, thermal imagery movement. You know, there's I live 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:33.080 in the Pacific Northwest where if nobody's hunted here, similar 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:34.920 to probably how you hunt in northern I know, for 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:40.680 white tills, it's industrial timberlands, clearcut timber jackfur type country. Right, 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:45.080 You've got different stages of fur trees, hemlock trees in 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.840 different stages of growth. So the way we hunt typically 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:50.840 is you pull up to a landing where you're looking 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.040 across the canyon, across the draw and you're trying to 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:55.720 look into the face of the clearcut and spot deer. Well, 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:57.960 after three or four years, it gets very grown up. 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:01.960 And so like around home, the better blacktail hunters or 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:03.520 the guys that are able to spot you because you 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:05.440 could sit there all day and if these deers aren't 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:09.320 you know, these deers deer aren't moving, you may not 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:11.480 spot them. Versus if you can do a quick scan 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.680 with thermal, move to the next one, even behind somebody 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:17.840 that's already looked at first in the morning, you're more effective. 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:20.760 You know, we've we've talked to or met people that 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:25.039 are using them in Idaho like effectively. You know, you 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.800 might be on a hike in in the morning like oh, shoot, 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:31.520 here's deer here, like let's not disrupt them, or like 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:33.800 I'm having to make the decision, like I just need 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:35.599 to get to this point by daylight. Right, So there's 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:41.000 this thermal where it has its its pros. Collns. What's 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.839 your opinion on thermal? Should it be allowed? Should take uh? 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:47.920 Should states take that stand and start to limit them? 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.200 Are you? Are you in your opinion? Should it be 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:55.840 separated between big game versus predators? Like where you're at 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:57.479 on night vision or and thermal? 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:03.479 Right? I think selfishly, I think they're awesome, and they 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:05.640 they're cool, and they're just they'd be really fun to 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.960 have a buddy of mine last fault, him and I 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.599 went deer hunting and in North Idaho, and there's just 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:14.600 you know, you just don't steal a lot of deer. 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:18.960 But in your mind you think, yeah, but these white tails, 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:21.240 you know, they're all, they're all caked up. You know, 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:23.800 they're nocturnal or this or that or you know, and 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.040 you can glass across the big canyon into some brushy 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:28.920 pockets and stuff, and you can sit there all day 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:30.719 and you're just like, I'm not seeing no deer. They're 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.760 just not moving today. Well, you pull out the thermal, 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.680 and you know, thermals have their limitations, you know, if 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:40.440 it's warm, you know, like in September, for instance, once 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.799 the sun rises, you'd have a hard time seeing stuff 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:45.680 to just the ground gets too warm. But when they're 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.599 snow on the ground and the sun comes up, you 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:51.159 can you have some you have time to to to 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:54.840 check things out. But you know, so you pull up 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.960 to one of these places and you start glassing around 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:02.000 with that thermal, and you you soon realize there are 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:05.599 no deer over there. If there were, I mean, you 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.440 can see rabbits, Like at eight hundred yards you can 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:13.159 see a rabbit. So it's they're kind of crazy. But 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:15.800 we did spot some deer and we were we would 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:17.920 sit there, we'd spot a deer and be like, oh man, 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:20.240 that one's in a brush pile somewhere. I bet it's 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.560 a really big old buck. Just hiding out. So you 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:24.840 get out the spotter and you can sit there for 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.680 thirty minutes with a spotter and just tear that piece 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:30.800 of brush apart, and then finally you catch an ear. 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:36.719 Oh yeah, that's a dough whatever. So I think, I 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:41.440 think if we weren't really successful finding a big well, 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.240 we did see some bucks and one was like a 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:45.480 butter light shooter, but then it was you know, too 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:47.279 far away. It was a cross. You know, we were 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.240 able to you know, find it with our glass and 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:52.360 and find it with the glass even in the open 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:56.200 sometimes can be hard. The deer really blend in and 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:58.280 you know, we've been hunting for a long time. We're 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:01.359 pretty good with spotting stuff, but you know, they blend 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:03.120 in good. But it was it was a no brainer, 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.240 super easy with the thermal. But the deer was still 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.560 a long ways away, so there was no shooting. But 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.760 I guess the point, like you know, selfishly, you know, yeah, 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.120 heck yeah, you know, when especially when there's not a 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.120 lot of deer a large deer population, you really you 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:24.160 really want any legal advantage you can get. But ethically, man, 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:26.920 I always liked, I always like to err on the 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:28.480 side of the deer, and I know, I know you've 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:30.120 always said this, and you and I've had a lot 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:32.040 of debate about this, and I just egg you on 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:33.960 because I want to piss you off, because you feel 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:38.000 pretty passionate about it. So I always take the I 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:40.440 always take the opposite side, just to wind you up, 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:45.400 just like you do sometimes with me. But honestly, you know, yeah, 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:47.440 I think, definitely think they should be out lowed. I 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:51.680 don't think that should be legal. I mean, and they're expensive, 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:54.680 you know, for the good ones. They're eight thousand, ten 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:58.360 thousand dollars for one, So then it becomes back to 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:02.920 that game of only rich guy can afford to do 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:06.640 it right. So it's just it's bad all the way across. 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:10.040 In my opinion, it's bad. It's bad optics, it's not ethical, 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:14.840 and it's not you know there again, you're excluding the 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:19.000 everyday hunter, the every day working Joe who can't afford 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:21.160 that kind of crap, and so it's just an unfair 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:22.840 advantage in my opinion. Definitely. 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:25.160 Yeah, And then we're gonna talk about some of these 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:27.240 other things. But when you couple thermal in with maybe 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:29.679 long range ability or a scope that can dial itself, 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:34.400 You're like, at what point did I do anything that 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:38.600 required some skill or some hunting ability. You know, when 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.560 when we talked to Grandpa, you know, he was always like, 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:43.360 you know, working in the woods, being a good woodsman, 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:45.320 being able to walk on logs, being able to be 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:49.240 absolutely silent in his white new balanced tennis shoes, white elkhunts, 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:51.280 like those were the things that made him successful. And 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:55.760 now you're like, somebody shows up scans with thermal, gets 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.920 their long range you know, five thousand dollars long range 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.360 gun out clicks their scope so it adjusts the radical form. 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:05.600 They didn't have to do that. They ordered their AMMO 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:08.960 from some custom Ammo place that maybe you know, so 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:11.920 you know where I'm getting is like this person did 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.440 nothing but ultimately squeeze the trigger and maybe they drove 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:18.200 to that spot at some point, right, And that's where 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:23.800 I struggle, And not that I've I've been. I've gotten 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.400 a lot better over the last five years of like 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:29.240 hunting no longer competition, So I'm not jealous of these guys, right, 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.079 I've I do have the means. If I wanted to 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.520 have a ten thousand dollars thermal, I would have one. 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:36.520 I mean it's just the reality I could. I could 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.400 do it if I wanted to. So it's the jealousy 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:42.280 of that. It's just it goes back to what you 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:47.280 just touched on, and I'm getting better recognizing it and 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:49.760 hopefully it doesn't go full swing and I end up 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:54.200 on peda side protecting the animals. But like I'm I 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:56.360 root for the animals even when I'm hunting them. And 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:59.760 it's crazy for a hunter to be like rooting for it. 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:03.000 But like last year Idaho, you know, you know where 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:05.960 we were at and on that buck hunt, mildiar hunt, 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.840 I got whipped a couple of times by by this 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:10.839 big buck and why it sucked at the time, and 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:12.080 I was trying to do everything in my power to 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:13.959 figure it out. Like at the end of that day, 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:15.679 or you know, even the next day when you're reflected, 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:17.800 you're like, man, that that's a cagyal buck. I'm glad 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:20.280 I get a chance to hunt him. Yeah, and he 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.440 may win and I may never kill him, but it 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:25.320 was cool that he lived and I could get a 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:26.880 chance to hunt him, and maybe it'll make a great 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.240 story for next year when I come back and find him, 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:35.440 you know, And and I just I feel like and 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:37.320 this is where where do you draw the line? Like, 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:39.360 all right, well, then should I be able to use 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.640 a three by nine scope on a seven mag Should 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:44.400 I have to use open sites in a lever gun? 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:48.320 Like at some point in this and this is where 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:50.480 this conversation always goes. Well then it's like all right, 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:52.760 and we're gonna get there in a little bit, but 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:54.760 like where do you draw the line? And so that's 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:56.200 what we're going to kind of look at as we 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:59.560 go through these these next few topics. 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.680 Yeah, well hit the thermal thing again too. It's like 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:05.760 you know, I said, you know, I didn't. We didn't 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:07.240 see a lot of deer and we didn't see any 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:12.200 any real big bucks. We saw one shooter. But have 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.280 other people with thermals been hunting that and they did 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:17.959 shoot the big ones? I mean you have to think 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.680 that too. Like that always went through my mind. It's like, man, 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:24.280 did somebody already already cream these bucks out? 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:24.680 Yeah? 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.560 Because they had thermals and they knew, Like, you know, 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:29.839 So I don't like it. I don't. I don't. I 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:33.000 don't like I say I always vote for the deer. 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:36.120 I was always advocate for the deer. If that means 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.600 shortened my season a little bit. That means, you know, 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.840 making some radical changes. That way we still have deer 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:46.360 to hunt. You know, I will help protect those deer. 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:49.719 That way we can hunt them tomorrow. Like I'm not 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.320 enjoyed to be to like you said, but yeah, but 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:55.360 damn it, I I really I want there to be 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:57.800 to deer here tomorrow or elk here tomorrow to hunt. 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:02.360 But now for predators during non big game if it's 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:04.079 not big game season and you're out there with one 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.640 of those or it's like nighttime and you are really 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:09.680 doing it, I mean, I feel like poachers are gonna proach. 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:12.120 You know, if you didn't have a thermal rifle scope, 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:14.240 you'd be out there with a spotlight shooting deer or 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.760 elk at night. Yeah. But like I'm all for that, 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:20.760 you know, shooting, you know, predator management because those you know, 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:24.559 that needs to happen, you know, they those numbers need 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:26.120 to be kept in check so they don't eat too 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:27.080 many of our deer milk. 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:30.880 Yeah. And then the culmbination of those two is what's 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:33.440 creating the issue in Washington right now, is because thermals 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:38.479 are legal for predators, not legal for big game but yet, 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:40.840 who's going to just shove one in the center console 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.000 of their truck? And oh, I was just in here 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:45.080 from my hunt the other night. You know, the only 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.000 thing we don't allow is thermal scopes to be used 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:49.800 to shoot you know, the animals at night is the 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:51.800 only thing protecting them. But you know, as long as 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:55.240 you can have daylight optics joined in with those, like, yeah, 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:57.800 it's illegal, but I don't know, it's a slippery slope 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.000 of is it being it can't be managed And there's 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:04.280 there's you know, I didn't just make up this, uh 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:07.480 you know this example of the thermals being shoved in 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:09.280 the center council like that's how it's being done for 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:10.440 people to exploit that. 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:12.839 Right right, Well, they have to draw a hard line, 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.000 you know for the bad apples. The bad apples, they 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.080 ruin everything all in every case of every everything you 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.040 talk about, there's always some jerk that ruins it for everybody. 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:23.880 So there you go. I mean, if if it means, 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:26.760 you know, during big game season, you're not allowed to 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:28.880 have one of those on your person, possession in the 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:32.360 field at all, period, zero zip, that's the only way 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:32.880 to manage it. 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.040 Yep, yep, and the only thing is if this was 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.800 legal for everybody, which it makes it an unfair advantage 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:40.720 once again to people with money, is we ma end 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:42.640 up with a two day year season, and I don't. 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:44.680 I love being out there more than that, like, and 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:48.120 that's the you know, so yeah, and all of these 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:51.280 things could ultimately affect you know, it's just the effectiveness 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.719 of of a hunter is ultimately the only result if 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:56.560 the fish and wildlife is doing their job is the 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:02.400 limit seasons shortened dates, limit tags, reduce to take because 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.360 of the effectiveness. And that's my biggest concern is I'd 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:07.280 rather be out there if you told me I could 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.920 hunt all three months, you know, September, October, November, but 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.800 I'd use a thirty thirty. I might pick that, you know, 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.040 get prime seasons or whatever. Oh yeah, you told me 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:17.640 if you use the rifle, we can only hunt for 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:19.600 four days. I'd be like, Ah, that doesn't sound near 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.240 as cool, you know. And so that's where my head's 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:24.880 at on all of this is I just want opportunity 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:29.480 for people, and the kill isn't necessarily does not outweigh 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.680 the time, the adventure, the experience. For me. 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:35.240 Yeah, absolutely, I agree. 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:39.840 Okay, moving into range finding scopes that you know, the 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.520 precision is at an unfair advantage, should technology be removed? Now, 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:46.080 I know some states do have laws, and I apologize 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:47.760 I didn't go look at like every state. This is 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:51.520 just a discussion about the ethics and our own opinions 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.520 on this. But like I know, like range finding scopes. 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.200 You know, I believe Buris has like an optical or 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:02.119 oculus or something. Sour has one that talks and automatically 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:06.560 moves radicals correctly. Yeah, correct, I'm not fully up, but 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.640 I do know there's technology, a burst eliminator, the bd 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:18.960 X from SIG coupled with weather stations takes any hold 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.920 on I'm gonna choose my words carefully. They take the 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:26.040 skill out of being the marksman that, like, you know, 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:28.640 just range finding, you know, find a true line of sight, 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.800 whether the elements putting it into a calculator. But then 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:35.320 some may say that that in itself, just having the 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:38.520 ability to shoot that far accurately is the advantage. What's 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:41.640 your take on? Like specific to range finding scopes that 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.680 adjust radicals, there's no dialing, no math being done well. 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:50.000 First and foremost, I think you have to be a 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:53.080 good enough shot a good enough guy pulling the trigger 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.880 to actually make some of these shots, right. I know, 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:59.280 you know you can take ten people, line them up 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:03.520 and say, right, grab your old hunting rifle, bess, and 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:06.000 shoot that that gong at three hundred yards and you 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:09.760 guys got you know, we've had this debate since elementary school, right, 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.560 And I bet there'd be a very few that would 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:17.200 just be able to like, you know, grab grab their 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.880 old hunting rifle and hit that, you know, with without 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:25.320 movable turrets, without you know, uh, without a smart scope 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:29.120 or whatever. That's gonna gonna change the point of impact, 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.720 you know, for for trajectory, for wind, et cetera. So 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.320 but those same people I still think would struggle with 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:40.160 you know, they had a ten thousand dollars rifle and 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.880 all the program and all the stuff. I still think 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:45.360 they would struggle to maybe make a good make a 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.120 good shot. They might make a bad shot. And I 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:49.560 think this is kind of where it kind of goes 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:52.800 a little right for me, is maybe people push the 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:59.120 envelope of their actual effective range. Of course, ethics is always, 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:03.040 you know, ethics, it's kind of got to be something 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.920 you judge on your own. You know, your own perceived ethics. 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.840 But then again, like some people don't have that moral 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:13.560 compass inside their heads, so they may take a you know, 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.840 it's like, oh, it's eight hundred yards. I'm really good 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:18.639 to six hundred, but it's eight hundred and that's a 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:21.159 really big buck or a really big bull. So I'm 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.000 gonna push it. I'm gonna take that. I'm gonna try 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:26.479 for it. Yeah, and they make a bad hit or 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:32.679 maybe they miss. But the the ones that you're talking about, 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:36.879 that that are self, that the redical, you know, you 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:39.640 range it like the range finding scopes or the range 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:43.480 finding You have a rangefinder connected to the scope and 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:46.040 the radical and you you range it and then the 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.360 lights up on the radical lights up and the correct 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:56.320 hold over in the scope. Those kind Yeah, they they 0:17:56.359 --> 0:18:00.000 work pretty good. They're they I've seen them work before. 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.080 I've seen them work good in Idaho. They're illegal, and 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:06.000 I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. I feel 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:10.040 like I feel like there still has to. 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:10.440 Be some. 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:18.040 Mystery and some do your own do your own diligence 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.119 and do your own work on the side to where 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:23.600 it's like, Okay, I'm gonna make a very very accurate shot, 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.879 and maybe that kind of sort of filters out some 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:30.200 people that maybe would would it, wouldn't put in the practice, 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:32.040 wouldn't put in the time, you know, to make it 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:36.280 a good clean shot. Just personally, I know, you know, 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:37.640 I don't know if I can sit here and back 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:39.280 it up and just say, you know, this is why 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:41.359 I don't like it. But I just don't really like 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:48.920 that myself. I feel like there's yeah, I don't I'm 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:49.480 not for it. 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.439 Yeah, I don't like the idea of it. But then 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:54.720 I also think when I go into my ballistics app 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:56.840 entering all the data that either I have to get 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:58.680 off of weather station or something I do at the 0:18:58.680 --> 0:18:59.960 beginning of the day, and I'm gonna be hunting for 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.760 this elevation. It's about this temperature, it's about this humidity. 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:04.600 And then I've got to go in there and make 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.800 the adjustments based on you know, what I what I 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:09.800 feel is right, and what I feel the wind is 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:12.160 make the wind call. And one thing that I do 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:16.360 recognize is up and down or drop is a very 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:20.240 simple calculation, right right, bullet drop is It's the art 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:22.720 all comes into win for the most part, unless you 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:25.000 know you're in steep canyon country overridges, and you got 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.280 ups and downs you're trying to figure out, but the 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.160 majority of the skill comes in your left and right 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:36.200 and wind. So I just I don't know if it's 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:38.840 the skill because you just enter in parameters. But there's 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:42.800 something about going to an app that's on a you know, 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:47.040 the iPhone fifteen, so like you're trying to take technology 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:48.680 out of it, but at the same time, like I'm 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:52.520 going to an iPhone to do my calculations. Why I'm hunting. 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:57.000