Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today,
Speaker 1: I've got maybe my favorite guest on my most my.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hey there he is, Hey Dirt, Oh hey there.
Speaker 1: Uh no, I think I was looking. I said, you're
Speaker 1: by far my most repeat guest. You've probably had twelve
Speaker 1: or thirteen episodes with me that I've posted.
Speaker 2: Holy count. Wow.
Speaker 1: I appreciate having me back.
Speaker 2: Do What is this kind of like on YouTube when
Speaker 2: you get so many appearances, you get like a little
Speaker 2: cool plaque and yeah, mail, I can, I can put
Speaker 2: it on social media and put hanging on my wall.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. No. In reality and all transparency, what happens
Speaker 1: is when nobody else wants to be on my podcast
Speaker 1: with me, I resort to Dirk so we can have conversations.
Speaker 1: So you're playing second fiddle here, Dirk. But it's kind
Speaker 1: of a pat on the back and a slap in
Speaker 1: the face at the same time.
Speaker 2: There. Well, I mean, I mean you stood, you've been
Speaker 2: my boss for how long? And then you're just like, hey,
Speaker 2: you need to do this and that, and you just
Speaker 2: boss me around and I'm like, yess.
Speaker 1: I felt like it was early this morning we're recording.
Speaker 1: Here is all the Sportsman shows are getting kicked off,
Speaker 1: and we've got got our workers traveling around and I
Speaker 1: kind of came to you with my tail between my legs, like, Dirk,
Speaker 1: do you mind hopping on the podcast here early this
Speaker 1: morning so I don't just talk to myself? And here
Speaker 1: we are.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you interrupted my my morning procedure. You know, you
Speaker 2: put you put the avovocado mask and the cucumbers on
Speaker 2: your face, over your eyes and stuff and had to
Speaker 2: wipe all that stuff off to do this. So I mean,
Speaker 2: you look good.
Speaker 1: You look good. It's been working. Yeah, and then you're
Speaker 1: right here avocado toast after you I did. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: such a weird, weird food, but I'm gonna leave that alone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't know what it tastes like, and I
Speaker 2: never will.
Speaker 1: I do like avocados, I do like toast. I just
Speaker 1: never thought that we put those two together, right, all right? No,
Speaker 1: we got Dirk here, and it's actually probably the most
Speaker 1: perfect episode, or one of the most we've We've disagreed
Speaker 1: and debated, and we may disagree and we may agree
Speaker 1: on a lot of these issues, but we want to
Speaker 1: talk about technology and how it relates to hunting. If
Speaker 1: there should be aligned drawn if there shouldn't be aligning
Speaker 1: drawn how we should how we look at it. I
Speaker 1: don't want to say how we should look at it
Speaker 1: as a group because I think everybody's going to like
Speaker 1: have their own opinions. Right, there's no right or wrong answer,
Speaker 1: And ultimately it may be up to these fish and
Speaker 1: wildlife departments that we all love to bag on. But
Speaker 1: it's not a very easy decision at times, right, how
Speaker 1: are you going to handle this? Or how you going
Speaker 1: to handle that? And I think a lot of just
Speaker 1: personal opinion, ethics, morals, your definition of fair chase comes
Speaker 1: into these. So we got a list of things, and
Speaker 1: it's going to be more like a yay, nay, a
Speaker 1: discussion on the wire, how come, and then we'll move
Speaker 1: on to the next one.
Speaker 2: So you realize, no matter what your opinion is, that
Speaker 2: I'm going to take the opposite.
Speaker 1: I there's some of them you can't here though. I
Speaker 1: don't think I think we're we're gonna have to agree
Speaker 1: on some but I know right off about we're going
Speaker 1: to disagree on on on the first topic, okay at time,
Speaker 1: and we will have a good discussion. I think we've
Speaker 1: had this discussion before and maybe.
Speaker 2: I'll even fight you a little bit and then secretly
Speaker 2: agree with you.
Speaker 1: Agree, like just real quick.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the first thing, and we've had a lot of
Speaker 1: conversations on this. Some states have band that some haven't
Speaker 1: like your own. To my knowledge, it's the thermal vision,
Speaker 1: thermal scopes, thermal imagery movement. You know, there's I live
Speaker 1: in the Pacific Northwest where if nobody's hunted here, similar
Speaker 1: to probably how you hunt in northern I know, for
Speaker 1: white tills, it's industrial timberlands, clearcut timber jackfur type country. Right,
Speaker 1: You've got different stages of fur trees, hemlock trees in
Speaker 1: different stages of growth. So the way we hunt typically
Speaker 1: is you pull up to a landing where you're looking
Speaker 1: across the canyon, across the draw and you're trying to
Speaker 1: look into the face of the clearcut and spot deer. Well,
Speaker 1: after three or four years, it gets very grown up.
Speaker 1: And so like around home, the better blacktail hunters or
Speaker 1: the guys that are able to spot you because you
Speaker 1: could sit there all day and if these deers aren't
Speaker 1: you know, these deers deer aren't moving, you may not
Speaker 1: spot them. Versus if you can do a quick scan
Speaker 1: with thermal, move to the next one, even behind somebody
Speaker 1: that's already looked at first in the morning, you're more effective.
Speaker 1: You know, we've we've talked to or met people that
Speaker 1: are using them in Idaho like effectively. You know, you
Speaker 1: might be on a hike in in the morning like oh, shoot,
Speaker 1: here's deer here, like let's not disrupt them, or like
Speaker 1: I'm having to make the decision, like I just need
Speaker 1: to get to this point by daylight. Right, So there's
Speaker 1: this thermal where it has its its pros. Collns. What's
Speaker 1: your opinion on thermal? Should it be allowed? Should take uh?
Speaker 1: Should states take that stand and start to limit them?
Speaker 1: Are you? Are you in your opinion? Should it be
Speaker 1: separated between big game versus predators? Like where you're at
Speaker 1: on night vision or and thermal?
Speaker 2: Right? I think selfishly, I think they're awesome, and they
Speaker 2: they're cool, and they're just they'd be really fun to
Speaker 2: have a buddy of mine last fault, him and I
Speaker 2: went deer hunting and in North Idaho, and there's just
Speaker 2: you know, you just don't steal a lot of deer.
Speaker 2: But in your mind you think, yeah, but these white tails,
Speaker 2: you know, they're all, they're all caked up. You know,
Speaker 2: they're nocturnal or this or that or you know, and
Speaker 2: you can glass across the big canyon into some brushy
Speaker 2: pockets and stuff, and you can sit there all day
Speaker 2: and you're just like, I'm not seeing no deer. They're
Speaker 2: just not moving today. Well, you pull out the thermal,
Speaker 2: and you know, thermals have their limitations, you know, if
Speaker 2: it's warm, you know, like in September, for instance, once
Speaker 2: the sun rises, you'd have a hard time seeing stuff
Speaker 2: to just the ground gets too warm. But when they're
Speaker 2: snow on the ground and the sun comes up, you
Speaker 2: can you have some you have time to to to
Speaker 2: check things out. But you know, so you pull up
Speaker 2: to one of these places and you start glassing around
Speaker 2: with that thermal, and you you soon realize there are
Speaker 2: no deer over there. If there were, I mean, you
Speaker 2: can see rabbits, Like at eight hundred yards you can
Speaker 2: see a rabbit. So it's they're kind of crazy. But
Speaker 2: we did spot some deer and we were we would
Speaker 2: sit there, we'd spot a deer and be like, oh man,
Speaker 2: that one's in a brush pile somewhere. I bet it's
Speaker 2: a really big old buck. Just hiding out. So you
Speaker 2: get out the spotter and you can sit there for
Speaker 2: thirty minutes with a spotter and just tear that piece
Speaker 2: of brush apart, and then finally you catch an ear.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's a dough whatever. So I think, I
Speaker 2: think if we weren't really successful finding a big well,
Speaker 2: we did see some bucks and one was like a
Speaker 2: butter light shooter, but then it was you know, too
Speaker 2: far away. It was a cross. You know, we were
Speaker 2: able to you know, find it with our glass and
Speaker 2: and find it with the glass even in the open
Speaker 2: sometimes can be hard. The deer really blend in and
Speaker 2: you know, we've been hunting for a long time. We're
Speaker 2: pretty good with spotting stuff, but you know, they blend
Speaker 2: in good. But it was it was a no brainer,
Speaker 2: super easy with the thermal. But the deer was still
Speaker 2: a long ways away, so there was no shooting. But
Speaker 2: I guess the point, like you know, selfishly, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: heck yeah, you know, when especially when there's not a
Speaker 2: lot of deer a large deer population, you really you
Speaker 2: really want any legal advantage you can get. But ethically, man,
Speaker 2: I always liked, I always like to err on the
Speaker 2: side of the deer, and I know, I know you've
Speaker 2: always said this, and you and I've had a lot
Speaker 2: of debate about this, and I just egg you on
Speaker 2: because I want to piss you off, because you feel
Speaker 2: pretty passionate about it. So I always take the I
Speaker 2: always take the opposite side, just to wind you up,
Speaker 2: just like you do sometimes with me. But honestly, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think, definitely think they should be out lowed. I
Speaker 2: don't think that should be legal. I mean, and they're expensive,
Speaker 2: you know, for the good ones. They're eight thousand, ten
Speaker 2: thousand dollars for one, So then it becomes back to
Speaker 2: that game of only rich guy can afford to do
Speaker 2: it right. So it's just it's bad all the way across.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, it's bad. It's bad optics, it's not ethical,
Speaker 2: and it's not you know there again, you're excluding the
Speaker 2: everyday hunter, the every day working Joe who can't afford
Speaker 2: that kind of crap, and so it's just an unfair
Speaker 2: advantage in my opinion. Definitely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then we're gonna talk about some of these
Speaker 1: other things. But when you couple thermal in with maybe
Speaker 1: long range ability or a scope that can dial itself,
Speaker 1: You're like, at what point did I do anything that
Speaker 1: required some skill or some hunting ability. You know, when
Speaker 1: when we talked to Grandpa, you know, he was always like,
Speaker 1: you know, working in the woods, being a good woodsman,
Speaker 1: being able to walk on logs, being able to be
Speaker 1: absolutely silent in his white new balanced tennis shoes, white elkhunts,
Speaker 1: like those were the things that made him successful. And
Speaker 1: now you're like, somebody shows up scans with thermal, gets
Speaker 1: their long range you know, five thousand dollars long range
Speaker 1: gun out clicks their scope so it adjusts the radical form.
Speaker 1: They didn't have to do that. They ordered their AMMO
Speaker 1: from some custom Ammo place that maybe you know, so
Speaker 1: you know where I'm getting is like this person did
Speaker 1: nothing but ultimately squeeze the trigger and maybe they drove
Speaker 1: to that spot at some point, right, And that's where
Speaker 1: I struggle, And not that I've I've been. I've gotten
Speaker 1: a lot better over the last five years of like
Speaker 1: hunting no longer competition, So I'm not jealous of these guys, right,
Speaker 1: I've I do have the means. If I wanted to
Speaker 1: have a ten thousand dollars thermal, I would have one.
Speaker 1: I mean it's just the reality I could. I could
Speaker 1: do it if I wanted to. So it's the jealousy
Speaker 1: of that. It's just it goes back to what you
Speaker 1: just touched on, and I'm getting better recognizing it and
Speaker 1: hopefully it doesn't go full swing and I end up
Speaker 1: on peda side protecting the animals. But like I'm I
Speaker 1: root for the animals even when I'm hunting them. And
Speaker 1: it's crazy for a hunter to be like rooting for it.
Speaker 1: But like last year Idaho, you know, you know where
Speaker 1: we were at and on that buck hunt, mildiar hunt,
Speaker 1: I got whipped a couple of times by by this
Speaker 1: big buck and why it sucked at the time, and
Speaker 1: I was trying to do everything in my power to
Speaker 1: figure it out. Like at the end of that day,
Speaker 1: or you know, even the next day when you're reflected,
Speaker 1: you're like, man, that that's a cagyal buck. I'm glad
Speaker 1: I get a chance to hunt him. Yeah, and he
Speaker 1: may win and I may never kill him, but it
Speaker 1: was cool that he lived and I could get a
Speaker 1: chance to hunt him, and maybe it'll make a great
Speaker 1: story for next year when I come back and find him,
Speaker 1: you know, And and I just I feel like and
Speaker 1: this is where where do you draw the line? Like,
Speaker 1: all right, well, then should I be able to use
Speaker 1: a three by nine scope on a seven mag Should
Speaker 1: I have to use open sites in a lever gun?
Speaker 1: Like at some point in this and this is where
Speaker 1: this conversation always goes. Well then it's like all right,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna get there in a little bit, but
Speaker 1: like where do you draw the line? And so that's
Speaker 1: what we're going to kind of look at as we
Speaker 1: go through these these next few topics.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well hit the thermal thing again too. It's like
Speaker 2: you know, I said, you know, I didn't. We didn't
Speaker 2: see a lot of deer and we didn't see any
Speaker 2: any real big bucks. We saw one shooter. But have
Speaker 2: other people with thermals been hunting that and they did
Speaker 2: shoot the big ones? I mean you have to think
Speaker 2: that too. Like that always went through my mind. It's like, man,
Speaker 2: did somebody already already cream these bucks out?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Because they had thermals and they knew, Like, you know,
Speaker 2: So I don't like it. I don't. I don't. I
Speaker 2: don't like I say I always vote for the deer.
Speaker 2: I was always advocate for the deer. If that means
Speaker 2: shortened my season a little bit. That means, you know,
Speaker 2: making some radical changes. That way we still have deer
Speaker 2: to hunt. You know, I will help protect those deer.
Speaker 2: That way we can hunt them tomorrow. Like I'm not
Speaker 2: enjoyed to be to like you said, but yeah, but
Speaker 2: damn it, I I really I want there to be
Speaker 2: to deer here tomorrow or elk here tomorrow to hunt.
Speaker 2: But now for predators during non big game if it's
Speaker 2: not big game season and you're out there with one
Speaker 2: of those or it's like nighttime and you are really
Speaker 2: doing it, I mean, I feel like poachers are gonna proach.
Speaker 2: You know, if you didn't have a thermal rifle scope,
Speaker 2: you'd be out there with a spotlight shooting deer or
Speaker 2: elk at night. Yeah. But like I'm all for that,
Speaker 2: you know, shooting, you know, predator management because those you know,
Speaker 2: that needs to happen, you know, they those numbers need
Speaker 2: to be kept in check so they don't eat too
Speaker 2: many of our deer milk.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then the culmbination of those two is what's
Speaker 1: creating the issue in Washington right now, is because thermals
Speaker 1: are legal for predators, not legal for big game but yet,
Speaker 1: who's going to just shove one in the center console
Speaker 1: of their truck? And oh, I was just in here
Speaker 1: from my hunt the other night. You know, the only
Speaker 1: thing we don't allow is thermal scopes to be used
Speaker 1: to shoot you know, the animals at night is the
Speaker 1: only thing protecting them. But you know, as long as
Speaker 1: you can have daylight optics joined in with those, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's illegal, but I don't know, it's a slippery slope
Speaker 1: of is it being it can't be managed And there's
Speaker 1: there's you know, I didn't just make up this, uh
Speaker 1: you know this example of the thermals being shoved in
Speaker 1: the center council like that's how it's being done for
Speaker 1: people to exploit that.
Speaker 2: Right right, Well, they have to draw a hard line,
Speaker 2: you know for the bad apples. The bad apples, they
Speaker 2: ruin everything all in every case of every everything you
Speaker 2: talk about, there's always some jerk that ruins it for everybody.
Speaker 2: So there you go. I mean, if if it means,
Speaker 2: you know, during big game season, you're not allowed to
Speaker 2: have one of those on your person, possession in the
Speaker 2: field at all, period, zero zip, that's the only way
Speaker 2: to manage it.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, and the only thing is if this was
Speaker 1: legal for everybody, which it makes it an unfair advantage
Speaker 1: once again to people with money, is we ma end
Speaker 1: up with a two day year season, and I don't.
Speaker 1: I love being out there more than that, like, and
Speaker 1: that's the you know, so yeah, and all of these
Speaker 1: things could ultimately affect you know, it's just the effectiveness
Speaker 1: of of a hunter is ultimately the only result if
Speaker 1: the fish and wildlife is doing their job is the
Speaker 1: limit seasons shortened dates, limit tags, reduce to take because
Speaker 1: of the effectiveness. And that's my biggest concern is I'd
Speaker 1: rather be out there if you told me I could
Speaker 1: hunt all three months, you know, September, October, November, but
Speaker 1: I'd use a thirty thirty. I might pick that, you know,
Speaker 1: get prime seasons or whatever. Oh yeah, you told me
Speaker 1: if you use the rifle, we can only hunt for
Speaker 1: four days. I'd be like, Ah, that doesn't sound near
Speaker 1: as cool, you know. And so that's where my head's
Speaker 1: at on all of this is I just want opportunity
Speaker 1: for people, and the kill isn't necessarily does not outweigh
Speaker 1: the time, the adventure, the experience. For me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I agree.
Speaker 1: Okay, moving into range finding scopes that you know, the
Speaker 1: precision is at an unfair advantage, should technology be removed? Now,
Speaker 1: I know some states do have laws, and I apologize
Speaker 1: I didn't go look at like every state. This is
Speaker 1: just a discussion about the ethics and our own opinions
Speaker 1: on this. But like I know, like range finding scopes.
Speaker 1: You know, I believe Buris has like an optical or
Speaker 1: oculus or something. Sour has one that talks and automatically
Speaker 1: moves radicals correctly. Yeah, correct, I'm not fully up, but
Speaker 1: I do know there's technology, a burst eliminator, the bd
Speaker 1: X from SIG coupled with weather stations takes any hold
Speaker 1: on I'm gonna choose my words carefully. They take the
Speaker 1: skill out of being the marksman that, like, you know,
Speaker 1: just range finding, you know, find a true line of sight,
Speaker 1: whether the elements putting it into a calculator. But then
Speaker 1: some may say that that in itself, just having the
Speaker 1: ability to shoot that far accurately is the advantage. What's
Speaker 1: your take on? Like specific to range finding scopes that
Speaker 1: adjust radicals, there's no dialing, no math being done well.
Speaker 2: First and foremost, I think you have to be a
Speaker 2: good enough shot a good enough guy pulling the trigger
Speaker 2: to actually make some of these shots, right. I know,
Speaker 2: you know you can take ten people, line them up
Speaker 2: and say, right, grab your old hunting rifle, bess, and
Speaker 2: shoot that that gong at three hundred yards and you
Speaker 2: guys got you know, we've had this debate since elementary school, right,
Speaker 2: And I bet there'd be a very few that would
Speaker 2: just be able to like, you know, grab grab their
Speaker 2: old hunting rifle and hit that, you know, with without
Speaker 2: movable turrets, without you know, uh, without a smart scope
Speaker 2: or whatever. That's gonna gonna change the point of impact,
Speaker 2: you know, for for trajectory, for wind, et cetera. So
Speaker 2: but those same people I still think would struggle with
Speaker 2: you know, they had a ten thousand dollars rifle and
Speaker 2: all the program and all the stuff. I still think
Speaker 2: they would struggle to maybe make a good make a
Speaker 2: good shot. They might make a bad shot. And I
Speaker 2: think this is kind of where it kind of goes
Speaker 2: a little right for me, is maybe people push the
Speaker 2: envelope of their actual effective range. Of course, ethics is always,
Speaker 2: you know, ethics, it's kind of got to be something
Speaker 2: you judge on your own. You know, your own perceived ethics.
Speaker 2: But then again, like some people don't have that moral
Speaker 2: compass inside their heads, so they may take a you know,
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, it's eight hundred yards. I'm really good
Speaker 2: to six hundred, but it's eight hundred and that's a
Speaker 2: really big buck or a really big bull. So I'm
Speaker 2: gonna push it. I'm gonna take that. I'm gonna try
Speaker 2: for it. Yeah, and they make a bad hit or
Speaker 2: maybe they miss. But the the ones that you're talking about,
Speaker 2: that that are self, that the redical, you know, you
Speaker 2: range it like the range finding scopes or the range
Speaker 2: finding You have a rangefinder connected to the scope and
Speaker 2: the radical and you you range it and then the
Speaker 2: lights up on the radical lights up and the correct
Speaker 2: hold over in the scope. Those kind Yeah, they they
Speaker 2: work pretty good. They're they I've seen them work before.
Speaker 2: I've seen them work good in Idaho. They're illegal, and
Speaker 2: I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. I feel
Speaker 2: like I feel like there still has to.
Speaker 1: Be some.
Speaker 2: Mystery and some do your own do your own diligence
Speaker 2: and do your own work on the side to where
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, I'm gonna make a very very accurate shot,
Speaker 2: and maybe that kind of sort of filters out some
Speaker 2: people that maybe would would it, wouldn't put in the practice,
Speaker 2: wouldn't put in the time, you know, to make it
Speaker 2: a good clean shot. Just personally, I know, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I can sit here and back
Speaker 2: it up and just say, you know, this is why
Speaker 2: I don't like it. But I just don't really like
Speaker 2: that myself. I feel like there's yeah, I don't I'm
Speaker 2: not for it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't like the idea of it. But then
Speaker 1: I also think when I go into my ballistics app
Speaker 1: entering all the data that either I have to get
Speaker 1: off of weather station or something I do at the
Speaker 1: beginning of the day, and I'm gonna be hunting for
Speaker 1: this elevation. It's about this temperature, it's about this humidity.
Speaker 1: And then I've got to go in there and make
Speaker 1: the adjustments based on you know, what I what I
Speaker 1: feel is right, and what I feel the wind is
Speaker 1: make the wind call. And one thing that I do
Speaker 1: recognize is up and down or drop is a very
Speaker 1: simple calculation, right right, bullet drop is It's the art
Speaker 1: all comes into win for the most part, unless you
Speaker 1: know you're in steep canyon country overridges, and you got
Speaker 1: ups and downs you're trying to figure out, but the
Speaker 1: majority of the skill comes in your left and right
Speaker 1: and wind. So I just I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: the skill because you just enter in parameters. But there's
Speaker 1: something about going to an app that's on a you know,
Speaker 1: the iPhone fifteen, so like you're trying to take technology
Speaker 1: out of it, but at the same time, like I'm
Speaker 1: going to an iPhone to do my calculations. Why I'm hunting.
Speaker 1: I just I don't know. I don't I don't like
Speaker 1: the idea of like instantaneous adjustments so that a guy
Speaker 1: that maybe you said was proficient at five hundred, but
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, this scope will just move to eight
Speaker 1: hundred for me. I'll just shoot it wherever that dot
Speaker 1: ends up or the crossair ends up, I'll be fine.
Speaker 1: Like the you know, I don't like it. I don't
Speaker 1: like where it's you know that it takes that little
Speaker 1: bit of skill out. And one thing that you talked
Speaker 1: about people overshooting, I've always wondered about this. I don't
Speaker 1: know how you administer it and if it's too much overreach,
Speaker 1: but I would love to have like some shooting efficiency test,
Speaker 1: but then I don't know how you you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But then, yeah, if the guy only wants to shoot
Speaker 1: a hundred yard deer in the timber, why should he
Speaker 1: have to take that test necessarily? Maybe he needs to,
Speaker 1: But then the guy that wants shoot five hundred needs
Speaker 1: to take a test. But then it's not like when
Speaker 1: you get out in the woods, it stops you from
Speaker 1: shooting that seven hundred yard you know, shot that you're
Speaker 1: only proficient to five hundred. I just sometimes I wonder,
Speaker 1: like I wish there was a way, but there isn't
Speaker 1: until you start to limit optics, grains of powder like
Speaker 1: in a piece of brass, Like there's there's ways, But
Speaker 1: then then you may just be forcing people to like
Speaker 1: test their six and a half creed more on a
Speaker 1: you know, fifteen hundred yard shot. I don't know it
Speaker 1: because if people have the ethics or morals they do,
Speaker 1: you may never change at And so I know, I
Speaker 1: know the conversations going a little sideways here, but I don't.
Speaker 1: I just don't like the idea of range finding scopes
Speaker 1: for the reasons that there's doesn't seem like there's a
Speaker 1: lot of skill involved.
Speaker 2: Right, right, I feel like maybe people put a little
Speaker 2: less time and effort into mastering the craft, and maybe
Speaker 2: there's the potential for making a bad shot or pulling
Speaker 2: off a bad shot. I don't know. I think for predators, absolutely,
Speaker 2: you bet use them on predators all you want. It's
Speaker 2: like wolves, coyotes, bobcats, whatever, because typically you're not going
Speaker 2: to eat those, right, you know, big game but big
Speaker 2: game animals, yeah, they deserve I think they deserve more.
Speaker 2: And then one more little little point like to throw
Speaker 2: in to like dial in your turrets and stuff. But
Speaker 2: the guy that said, oh yeah, I'm really good at
Speaker 2: six hundred yards, but eight hundred yards but still might
Speaker 2: make try to take that shot, he's probably the same
Speaker 2: guy that had the old three by nine with a
Speaker 2: duplex radical and holding that thing, you know, seven feet
Speaker 2: over its back saying I think I can hit that thing.
Speaker 2: Like I feel like there's always going to be those people, unfortunately,
Speaker 2: But but I don't know how you police that. I mean,
Speaker 2: I mean, teacher sons and daughters better, right, and you know,
Speaker 2: just create a we I think as hunters we need
Speaker 2: to to. That's how you make your changes is educate
Speaker 2: and instill those values in the young the next generation.
Speaker 1: All right, let's move into maybe one of the newer,
Speaker 1: newer things we've seen, and it's going to be a
Speaker 1: two part in our our I think our answers would
Speaker 1: be a little bit different. Drones for scouting and then
Speaker 1: drones for recovery. What's your opinion on on these.
Speaker 2: I haven't really thought about it too much. I know
Speaker 2: drones are cool for all the cool shots for cinematography,
Speaker 2: you know, and there's laws that say you can't use
Speaker 2: those for hunting, which I agree with. I mean, like,
Speaker 2: if you're let's say, your standing at the very bottom
Speaker 2: of River Valley and it's a two thousand vertical climb
Speaker 2: up to where the elk may live, I mean, you
Speaker 2: could just shoot your drone up there. I guess if
Speaker 2: it had those if it had those abilities, your drone,
Speaker 2: particular drone, shoot it up there. Scope arounds like, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: there's no elk around here, Well let's not. Let's go
Speaker 2: to the next place. I mean that you definitely could
Speaker 2: use it in that in that way. Now is that
Speaker 2: I don't I don't think that should be legal. I
Speaker 2: think that's you know, you're just letting excuse me you're
Speaker 2: letting the drone do the dirty work, and you know
Speaker 2: you don't have any skin in the game. I'm there again.
Speaker 2: Let's let's give these animals a chance. Now, let's say
Speaker 2: you did hike up there, you still got to hike up,
Speaker 2: find them again and kill them, which can sometimes still
Speaker 2: be very, very difficult. But since they do move, it's
Speaker 2: not like they're tied up. But still, I don't really
Speaker 2: like that, honestly. Yeah, now, now for now, And then
Speaker 2: you said for recovery. So let's say you have a
Speaker 2: drone with a thermal and you want to runt around.
Speaker 2: Let's say you had a marginal hit or a bad
Speaker 2: hit on an elk or a deer or whatever. You
Speaker 2: want to rent it around. I think that's permissible, right.
Speaker 2: You know, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're trying to you're
Speaker 2: trying to make sure that animal doesn't go to waste.
Speaker 2: You know, the law says, you know, I'd go to
Speaker 2: every every legal length to get that animal taken back home,
Speaker 2: and I and I would think that would be that
Speaker 2: would be fine. It would be a slippery slope though,
Speaker 2: for the folks who are going to try to use
Speaker 2: that drone again. To scout. You know, they got that
Speaker 2: thermal thing on there, they're gonna fly it up. Look around,
Speaker 2: hold man, there's a whole field full of deer over there,
Speaker 2: and we'll just go on over there or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that we're agreeing way too much. This isn't
Speaker 1: how I intended this podcast to go.
Speaker 2: But maybe you should give your opinion first and then
Speaker 2: I can I can chop you out at the knees.
Speaker 1: No, No, I'm a kidding. Yeah, here, I'll try this,
Speaker 1: but it's I'm lying. Yeah, I think you should be
Speaker 1: able to just sit in a spot in the unit
Speaker 1: and fly your drone until you find elk and then
Speaker 1: finally walk up that. No, I'm in complete agreement with Dirk.
Speaker 1: I hate the idea of not having to sweat have
Speaker 1: a little bit of sweat equity, and like Dirk said,
Speaker 1: there is I do recognize there is a difference between
Speaker 1: knowing where elk are at and killing them, but I
Speaker 1: don't think that the advantage of the knowing and killing.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't just get to go be an elk right
Speaker 1: away because you didn't climb up the ridge, or you
Speaker 1: didn't climb up maybe the ridge acrossway that's only a
Speaker 1: five hundred foot gain, but you needed to be able
Speaker 1: to glass over something. And like, in my opinion, there
Speaker 1: should be some work required before this is gonna sound weird,
Speaker 1: like have a chance, like take that Elk's life. Like,
Speaker 1: I don't feel that it's fair or fair chase that
Speaker 1: that Elk quote unquote gets found under exposed because you
Speaker 1: can run two little controllers from your truck and you know,
Speaker 1: and imagine if you did do that and we're always
Speaker 1: on elk, like, it changes the game, right because even
Speaker 1: with our you know, people think we're always on Elk. Right,
Speaker 1: I can go a day or two and just be
Speaker 1: like riding the struggle bus of not being able to
Speaker 1: find an elk, not hearing a bugle. Yeah, there are
Speaker 1: real times versus like hell with this, I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: back to my truck, get my drone all charged up.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have four batteries ready so I can take
Speaker 1: four to twenty five minute flights. And by god, next
Speaker 1: time I get out of this truck, I'm hiking straight
Speaker 1: into Elk.
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, how hard would it be just to
Speaker 2: send that thing just open over a ridge, you know,
Speaker 2: a thousand feet or or whatever, you know, especially in
Speaker 2: open country, you could just shoot it over the next
Speaker 2: ridge and oh, shoot, there's elk right there. I had
Speaker 2: no idea elk even lived there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and that's I don't like that now. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm also on board with drones for recovery, especially the
Speaker 1: use of thermal drones at the point where that deer
Speaker 1: is wounded, wounded or dead dead for sure, I was.
Speaker 1: I was questioning my stance on wounded because there is
Speaker 1: some escapement on marginal shots that like, maybe that deer
Speaker 1: will leaven live and be just fine. Maybe it's bettered down,
Speaker 1: Maybe we shouldn't let people know where it's at. But
Speaker 1: if I had to just make a decision and wounded
Speaker 1: had to be in there, because you don't know whether
Speaker 1: it's dead or wounded or you made a good shot,
Speaker 1: I would air towards thermal recovery or drone recovery if if,
Speaker 1: if you have the access to it, because I just
Speaker 1: I'm not for one like to let the animal's life
Speaker 1: go to waste. You know, if you did make a shot,
Speaker 1: you do have blood by all means, you know, get
Speaker 1: the drone up, see if you can find it, and
Speaker 1: if it's maybe then the rule is, I don't know
Speaker 1: how you police that either, you know, wounded, you can't
Speaker 1: go after it dead, you can go recover it, but
Speaker 1: going to go yeah, people are good. I guess if
Speaker 1: it's sitting up versus laying on its side, would be
Speaker 1: the only way.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, maybe you have to like, Okay, I have
Speaker 2: to come back in three hours and check it in and.
Speaker 1: Check on it. I can check it in the daylight
Speaker 1: maybe or whatever it might be daylight, you know, and
Speaker 1: then have to sneak up on and give another shot.
Speaker 1: But I'm all for that. I would love to see,
Speaker 1: you know, critters, you know, be recovered end up on
Speaker 1: somebody's table versus turn into coyote bait or you know,
Speaker 1: die a miserable death over the next week, two weeks, month,
Speaker 1: whatever it may take.
Speaker 2: Right right, No, I agree. Now, I will say some
Speaker 2: naysayers would be like, yeah, but now with you saying
Speaker 2: that I can take those marginal shots, all I have
Speaker 2: is a butt shot. It's okay, I'm gonna shoot that
Speaker 2: thing square in the butt and then I'm gonna use
Speaker 2: my drone and find it and then I'll get it later.
Speaker 2: People will say that, but I think those same people
Speaker 2: that would do that are the same people that are
Speaker 2: gonna shoot too far. They're gonna be the You know,
Speaker 2: you can't. It's really hard to change the heart someone's
Speaker 2: heart and change their personal ethics unless back back to
Speaker 2: the point of we have to teach our sons and
Speaker 2: daughters better and then that that's where change starts. But
Speaker 2: I mean, there's there's there's the people have bad hearts
Speaker 2: in every situation, whether you're talking about mugging somebody or
Speaker 2: whatever it is. You know, there's people have a bad heart.
Speaker 2: So you know, you can't let it change the law
Speaker 2: that much.
Speaker 1: I think, yep. Yeah, And you know, and some of
Speaker 1: these seem easy to talk about. You're like, I'm not
Speaker 1: a lighted knock guy, but I know, like you're a
Speaker 1: big proponent of lighted knocks, And that isn't one of
Speaker 1: my topics because I feel like that one's well past
Speaker 1: the point of controversy. It just it just lets you
Speaker 1: know whether or not you It lets you see your
Speaker 1: arrow right right, and no happened, versus you just dug
Speaker 1: it into the ground and can't find the thing and
Speaker 1: you need to go start blood trailing, or maybe there
Speaker 1: isn't blood but you got blood on your arrow. Some
Speaker 1: of these things, like drone recovery seems to be clean cut.
Speaker 1: We should allow it just like that. But there's always there.
Speaker 1: I think there's all going to be a group that
Speaker 1: just wants it to be as like traditional and primitive
Speaker 1: as possible.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and.
Speaker 1: They don't want a drone, you know, flying over deer
Speaker 1: country even you know, maybe we should allow it on
Speaker 1: private not I don't know. I don't know what you
Speaker 1: do there. But my point is like I feel like
Speaker 1: thermal recovery should be an easy one to allow, But
Speaker 1: I can also see the other side on why they
Speaker 1: wouldn't want, you know, drones and technology involved in hunting
Speaker 1: at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I almost feel like maybe they make rulings
Speaker 2: like excuse me, on the drones, almost like flying flying
Speaker 2: an airplane and then hunting. You know, you have a
Speaker 2: tont you can't hunt again for twenty four hours, yep,
Speaker 2: you know once you try, and then the drones are
Speaker 2: going to log all that in right there. They they
Speaker 2: log your sessions. They know when you fly. So let's
Speaker 2: say you fly it, well, you can't hunt for twenty
Speaker 2: four hours. I mean with that that would be totally admissible. Yeah, Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: like for recovery, loose some heat, you would lose you know,
Speaker 2: you may not you may lose your animal. It may
Speaker 2: may go bad on you.
Speaker 1: So yeah, okau. This next one's kind of a combo
Speaker 1: AI and kind of that AI powered scouting and we're
Speaker 1: going to tie that into cell trail cams to kind
Speaker 1: of tackle this all at once. So so there's apps
Speaker 1: and AI models. You know, when we go to when
Speaker 1: we go to Kansas, some of those guys run an
Speaker 1: app like Drewy's Whitetail app. I think Onyx has like
Speaker 1: conditions and and you know people have time, moon phase
Speaker 1: and whatever it may be. But like apps that tell
Speaker 1: you when dear movement should be best. All of these
Speaker 1: things based on all of these environmental factors coupled with
Speaker 1: some of these things. And I don't claim to know
Speaker 1: all of multi mobiles, Like I just use their cameras,
Speaker 1: love I love their cameras. But like there's there starts
Speaker 1: to be like patterning, you know, whether all you're getting daylight, nighttime,
Speaker 1: you know, if they're on these what's your opinion on that?
Speaker 1: Like AI generated planning and then sell cams and we'll
Speaker 1: kind of it might be a complex one, but we'll
Speaker 1: kind of chunk it up and go through that.
Speaker 2: Well, I think you can, like, let's say your white
Speaker 2: tail on and I think you can log in and
Speaker 2: get like any kind of information you want as far
Speaker 2: as like, oh, this is the best time, this is
Speaker 2: the best day, or this is the best two days
Speaker 2: to hunt. You should do this, you should do that.
Speaker 2: I've never seen that be consistently accurate with any of
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, So I don't know, I mean,
Speaker 2: until they get the kinks worked out, I guess I'm
Speaker 2: not really against it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think just looking at it, trying to,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of peek over somebodys shoulder, like how
Speaker 1: does this app work? I think the biggest driving factor
Speaker 1: is just weather. And I think most white tail hunter
Speaker 1: know you get that big you know, weather push like,
Speaker 1: oh now it says it's gonna be great deer hunting
Speaker 1: for three days. Well, yeah, it's because you've got a
Speaker 1: big cold front moving in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, weather change, the barometric pressure changed. I mean, all
Speaker 2: the signs that Grandpa used, they're the same stuff. It's
Speaker 2: just maybe maybe delivered in a different manner.
Speaker 1: But let's roll to the next level, like you've got
Speaker 1: a camera set up it I think the you know,
Speaker 1: you're getting to the point where they've identified certain deer
Speaker 1: and it's starting to tell you like, yeah, I think you.
Speaker 1: I don't know how it works exactly. I wish I
Speaker 1: was more versed on this, but basically like, oh, if
Speaker 1: you want to hunt George, George would be best hunted
Speaker 1: at this time because this is this is a showing
Speaker 1: patterns like are you okay with that? Or is that
Speaker 1: something somebody come up on their own? Should they have
Speaker 1: to figure that out on their own? Or should they
Speaker 1: just be hunting whenever they can and it might just
Speaker 1: happen to be during that time.
Speaker 2: Well, I guess if you're looking at your pictures, you
Speaker 2: would know I already know what the best time, Like
Speaker 2: you would see like okay, he's daylighted now at this time,
Speaker 2: you know it's time stamped on your on your on
Speaker 2: your images. I I guess. I mean if you if
Speaker 2: you were running seventy five cameras and you were you know,
Speaker 2: you didn't have time to go through all that data,
Speaker 2: which I'm sure a lot of people do run a
Speaker 2: lot of cameras and might be hard to manage all
Speaker 2: that Sure right, I mean, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and for instance, the cell phone cameras, that's kind
Speaker 2: of a hot hot topic whether you should be able
Speaker 2: to use them or not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and cell phone cameras or cell trail cameras are
Speaker 1: going to roll into that. I think we're going to
Speaker 1: get a big technology push and AI here in the
Speaker 1: next three years where they can identify specific deer by
Speaker 1: horn configuration, their time. And then what we're just looking
Speaker 1: at is maybe when we look at a trail cam picture,
Speaker 1: we don't know whether bariometric pressure. It's going to add
Speaker 1: all that in and start to create this recipe to
Speaker 1: kill that deer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially if you have a network of cameras that
Speaker 2: it would be too hard to manage, you know, just
Speaker 2: you know, just checking them all. If you had like
Speaker 2: let's say, twenty cameras, thirty cameras whatever, on every trail,
Speaker 2: on every point pinch point, on every food source, and
Speaker 2: then collaboratively your AI generated Okay, if you want to
Speaker 2: shoot this deer, be at this pinch point at x
Speaker 2: y Z time on XYZ you know, I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that could probably that it'll probably work.
Speaker 1: Having a tracking collor on the thing. If he shows
Speaker 1: up on multiple cameras too, you know. And then one
Speaker 1: thing I talked with a guy that hunts blacktails around
Speaker 1: here is like he does it on his own, but
Speaker 1: he always looks at like when a deer, what direction
Speaker 1: a deer approaches from? And then if he's not getting
Speaker 1: there early enough, So if it's a nighttime picture, he
Speaker 1: will go in that direction and set out like he'll
Speaker 1: scatter three more cameras and like, but if the AI
Speaker 1: tells you, like go put a camera four hundred and
Speaker 1: seventy yards in this direct, you know, like it starts
Speaker 1: to take all of that out, you know, versus just
Speaker 1: being a skilled hunter and trying to like reduce it
Speaker 1: down to like how the hell do I kill this
Speaker 1: deer in daylight or elk or whatever. Yeah, people can
Speaker 1: do it on their own, but like just using the
Speaker 1: technology sometimes I hate it, Like I want the guy
Speaker 1: if you're out there smashing one hundred and eighty ins
Speaker 1: whitetail bucks every time, like I would love to be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: Dirk Man, he gets into Excel, he's got all this plotted,
Speaker 1: like he's got his own system, Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I like that story better versus like, yeah, this technology
Speaker 1: told them to be at pinch point you know X,
Speaker 1: you know X at such and such time, and right.
Speaker 2: I feel like I don't like the don't I don't
Speaker 2: like the theory of it. Let's say, you know, the
Speaker 2: theory of that working like we've just described, that's an
Speaker 2: unfair advantage. I don't like it. And I typically I
Speaker 2: typically don't like the poo poo on things unless I've
Speaker 2: had some experience with it. You know, for instance, you know,
Speaker 2: some states outlawed trail cams of any kind during hunting season,
Speaker 2: and you know, because wildlife managers like, oh, you'll just
Speaker 2: an unfair ad mantager. But have you even ran trail cameras,
Speaker 2: Like they tried this in Idaho? They wanted out LOHM
Speaker 2: in Idaho. Now I was like, well, the cell phone ones,
Speaker 2: I'd probably be fine because that's more real time. You're
Speaker 2: getting messages, Hey there's a deer or elk over here,
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. But they're just just standard when where
Speaker 2: you have to walk in, you have to commit the
Speaker 2: time you got to walk in and check that camera
Speaker 2: and be like okay, well by then. A lot of
Speaker 2: times that from my experience because I run a lot
Speaker 2: of trail cameras. By that time it's old data. It
Speaker 2: may be a week week gone by, And especially for
Speaker 2: like elk Rut, right, they may be there for two
Speaker 2: or three days and then they're gone. You don't see
Speaker 2: them again until next September. So I don't I feel
Speaker 2: like I hate to like poo poo on something I
Speaker 2: don't have any real experience with. But I don't like
Speaker 2: the concept what we're talking about this AI and I
Speaker 2: think that'll be one of those things until they it
Speaker 2: gets clicked and it's refined and it's working good, don't
Speaker 2: I don't think we know it might sound good on paper,
Speaker 2: but the guy go sits his tree stand, he's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is stupid, this doesn't work at all. Who cares
Speaker 2: then at that point? But if it is working, if
Speaker 2: it does work like they say it would work, I
Speaker 2: wouldn't be a good I wouldn't be for it now.
Speaker 2: I mean. And also maybe if it was public land
Speaker 2: versus private land, you know, of a land, people maybe
Speaker 2: have the advantages say hey, what's my property? Should all
Speaker 2: do whatever I want with it? In America? Right? And
Speaker 2: I do kind of feel for those folks too. It's
Speaker 2: like you know it is private, you know, but overall
Speaker 2: I don't like it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, this is my This was my first year.
Speaker 1: Everyone in cell cams. Everything else was like all right,
Speaker 1: you know, boot leather butt, grease, you know, I gotta
Speaker 1: go check my check my camera. And it was really
Speaker 1: just to see what elk we're in the area or
Speaker 1: deer we're in the area before and so I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna lie like cell cams were nice. It was in
Speaker 1: an area I didn't want to hike too. Every time
Speaker 1: I happen to have some cell service there. But one thing,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna kick this one off. One thing I wasn't
Speaker 1: expecting was almost additional anxiety of nothing's there for a week,
Speaker 1: what's going on right, you know? Versus I'm sure if
Speaker 1: I was there, like I would just spot the elk
Speaker 1: up bedding on a slightly different slivery timber for that week,
Speaker 1: and then they'd chow back up right like, oh this
Speaker 1: is a bad spot during huntings. You know, it is
Speaker 1: legal in Washington to have them up during season. Like
Speaker 1: they had me doing the wrong thing. More so than
Speaker 1: just letting my eyes tell me what to do, right,
Speaker 1: we would make a play based on what was in
Speaker 1: such and such basin, and then you'd go over there
Speaker 1: and like, ah, this isn't what we thought it was there.
Speaker 1: You know, they're they're back, but the right bowl isn't there.
Speaker 1: We should have stayed there. What's what's your opinion on
Speaker 1: cell cams and the states that allow it, where you
Speaker 1: can make instantaneous decisions on where you need to be
Speaker 1: and what's probably within quarter mile half mile of that location.
Speaker 2: So I have have a little experience with cell cameras.
Speaker 2: For instance, our buddy Randy, he runs a pretty good
Speaker 2: network of cell cameras in Kansas. Let's talk about turkey season.
Speaker 2: He's like, hey, you boys need to go down to
Speaker 2: the the four hundred there and there's those turkeys in
Speaker 2: that one spot. You'll go down there and you'll kill them,
Speaker 2: all right, Well, because he's been seeing them on camera, Like,
Speaker 2: and I don't know how many times we've gone down
Speaker 2: there set up call, we're not even seen a turkey.
Speaker 2: It's like it's almost like you're kind of chasing, like
Speaker 2: chasing your tail, like you go from this one to
Speaker 2: that one, of this one of that one. It's not
Speaker 2: always it's not always a slam dunk. I guess what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. You still got to hunt them up right,
Speaker 2: And it's back to your point. Like you know, I
Speaker 2: sometimes feel like you make some bad decisions just because like, Okay,
Speaker 2: they should be here, but they were there, but where
Speaker 2: did they go? Well, it doesn't mean they're just hanging
Speaker 2: around that camera. You know, they could be two miles
Speaker 2: away in a complete different drainage. If you're talking about elk.
Speaker 2: This last fall, I had to sell camera out like
Speaker 2: the first time in history, well for a lot in
Speaker 2: my adult life, I've hunted where you would be able
Speaker 2: to get cell phone service. And I had a camera
Speaker 2: out and the elk. You know, all September there'd been
Speaker 2: bowls and cows in there. But I wasn't hunting that
Speaker 2: unit at all. I'm just kind of I was more
Speaker 2: scouting it. But I did have a rifle tag for
Speaker 2: that unit. But I go up to the trailhead to
Speaker 2: a completely different area where I had thought like, all right,
Speaker 2: we're gonna go back in here and and and you know,
Speaker 2: it's not the kind of the front country. It's kind
Speaker 2: of the back country, and we're gonna go hiking, We're
Speaker 2: gonna stay all night and hunt. Well, we get there,
Speaker 2: there's seven pickups and lots of dirt bike tracks and
Speaker 2: people's bootprints, and there's it looked like there was a
Speaker 2: lot of people going to the into the spot that
Speaker 2: I intended to go. I'm like, we gotta go waiting.
Speaker 2: I don't want to hunt here. I don't want to
Speaker 2: compete with these guys, these other guys for this hunt.
Speaker 2: So we go back out. So we drive, you know,
Speaker 2: an hour back into service and and I check my
Speaker 2: trail cam and oh, holy cow, this big six point
Speaker 2: that I've been seeing in September that kind of disappeared.
Speaker 2: He's back and he'd been all he had been nocturnal
Speaker 2: all September. He's back hunting. He's on he's daylighted. Look
Speaker 2: at him like, wow, I know we're hunting tomorrow. We're
Speaker 2: gonna go hunting up there. So we get up there.
Speaker 2: There's people everywhere hunting, but we I do hear in
Speaker 2: bugle and it's over in the area by the cell
Speaker 2: cell cam. So we go over there hone him up.
Speaker 2: Of course, you know, as great of an elk kinter,
Speaker 2: I like to consider myself ha ha, oh guess what
Speaker 2: the elk give us? The slip? Right? You know, and
Speaker 2: bugling during rifle season. I would just worry that there
Speaker 2: was enough people around that that thing bugling his head
Speaker 2: off was gonna, you know, drag in another person. So
Speaker 2: I got too aggressive and blew him out of there.
Speaker 2: And guess what, my cell camra my cell camera said,
Speaker 2: these elk are long gone. They're not here anymore. So
Speaker 2: we stopped hunting that spot and went on to another one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I mean, maybe debate you a little bit here,
Speaker 1: but not so my we we we've talked about this,
Speaker 1: like knowing the animals there doesn't necessarily get it dead,
Speaker 1: but then we can maybe make that argument, and you
Speaker 1: might you might agree, you might tell me I'm I'm
Speaker 1: an idiot, but I would make the argument like, but
Speaker 1: if you didn't have the cell camera there, would you
Speaker 1: even went to spot? You know? And so that's the
Speaker 1: other thing.
Speaker 2: That's a good argument.
Speaker 1: It's it's fifty percent, but it's not one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: So it does expose that elk or put pressure on
Speaker 1: them at that time, versus like if you would have
Speaker 1: had to walk in there or you're like, you know,
Speaker 1: we've all been there, like, oh, this camera's been dead cold,
Speaker 1: Like I'll just get it at the end of season
Speaker 1: versus like, no, I actually had to walk in there,
Speaker 1: put some scent on the ground. You know, potentially, you know,
Speaker 1: risk blowing the spot out for a day or two
Speaker 1: to check that SD card and then get back out,
Speaker 1: Like is there a difference? And then some people may
Speaker 1: may argue like, well, you shouldn't even have the SD
Speaker 1: card camera up, like no cameras just ton of them
Speaker 1: where they're at.
Speaker 2: Right right, which, yeah, and I can I can see
Speaker 2: that point. Definitely. Would I have gone to that spot
Speaker 2: or what have I? You know, I have you know,
Speaker 2: just like everybody, I got ABC d EFG spots that
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go for opening morning. Yeah, that that did
Speaker 2: steer me to that spot. Now also you know past
Speaker 2: data showing that I did. I did know that there
Speaker 2: was ELK equitting the area ll September. I probably would
Speaker 2: have went in there now. One thing though, it's kind
Speaker 2: of that front country, easy accessible, a lot of people around.
Speaker 2: I was almost even with that one debate with that
Speaker 2: one daylight. I was debating its like I don't know
Speaker 2: if I want to go in there because I don't
Speaker 2: want to compete for ELK with other people. I just
Speaker 2: don't like I just want to go find my own spot,
Speaker 2: but I did, so I feel like, yeah, it does
Speaker 2: give you an unfair advantage, like you know, you still
Speaker 2: have to hunt them up, but it puts you in
Speaker 2: the right area at the right time. And so I
Speaker 2: feel like if they said in Idaho they said next
Speaker 2: year you can't use cell phone trail cameras, it wouldn't
Speaker 2: hurt my feelings. I mean, well it would just a
Speaker 2: little bit because it's still fun. Because man, there's nothing
Speaker 2: better than checking trail cameras and like being like Christmas, well,
Speaker 2: it's like Christmas every day when you got one of
Speaker 2: them things. Every morning, I'd wake up the first thing
Speaker 2: I had to open up. I open up my multie
Speaker 2: app and I'm looking. I'm like, oh, oh, yeah, there's
Speaker 2: elk oh look at that little deer. Oh there's a weasel.
Speaker 2: Like you know, it's like Christmas. Every day. I'm still
Speaker 2: getting messages, you know, I left them up there at
Speaker 2: this one or there's a rabbit that's been going by
Speaker 2: this one. The other one's completely snowed in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, oh mine are buried in snow now.
Speaker 1: But I I was the same way, like I loved
Speaker 1: it and then it gave me anxiety more than I thought,
Speaker 1: because if I just didn't know what was up there,
Speaker 1: i'd be doing better at times. And then you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that bowl's not quite big enough yet, like we'll leave
Speaker 1: it alone, like a bigger one will show up eventually,
Speaker 1: you know, more into September. And so, yeah, it let
Speaker 1: you kind of. I loved everything about it. But then
Speaker 1: if you really just take back and like it does
Speaker 1: give you more information and having to put some boot leather,
Speaker 1: you know, similar to plying a drone up. Besides, you're
Speaker 1: locked to one location on a tree, I guess right,
Speaker 1: but you are technically scouting over and over and over
Speaker 1: without having to climb back into a spot. So I
Speaker 1: like them. I don't think I'm in a position to
Speaker 1: say like I would be like an advocate for outlawing them.
Speaker 1: I don't think I would like you. I would be
Speaker 1: necessarily upset if they went away, But I do. I
Speaker 1: do love using them for now, and I honestly felt
Speaker 1: like at least how I worked, they didn't give me
Speaker 1: like a huge advantage. And I'm stoked to keep running
Speaker 1: those those cell cameras as long as I can here
Speaker 1: in Washington.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Okay, we're gonna go to our final two. We're kind
Speaker 1: I don't want to say we run out of time,
Speaker 1: but we got two big ones left. We'll save the
Speaker 1: biggest one for last. But this next one, we're gonna
Speaker 1: switch to bow hunting, which is considered by most to
Speaker 1: be more of a primitive weapon. But then you start
Speaker 1: to see technology show up on that. We're talking like
Speaker 1: the new smart bow sites. You know, the Garment zero.
Speaker 1: I think we got the Burists Oracle for that. That's
Speaker 1: the one that they put on like the crossbows and stuff.
Speaker 1: But you got these range finding sites that will instantaneously
Speaker 1: give you a range. And I don't even know. Does
Speaker 1: you know if the the the pin actually moves on
Speaker 1: that like holographic type.
Speaker 2: I think it does. And there again, like I said,
Speaker 2: I have I've never I've never even held a held
Speaker 2: one in my hand that wasn't on a bow. I've
Speaker 2: never even looked at one, honestly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I do know they're they're expensive, eight
Speaker 1: and nine hundred bucks and they let you know right now,
Speaker 1: I mean everybody knows in order to get a range,
Speaker 1: you pre range everything trees, and then you got to
Speaker 1: try to remember the seven trees you range and try
Speaker 1: to build. I build like little semi circles out in
Speaker 1: front of me, Like these trees all connect for thirty
Speaker 1: these trees connect for forty yep, build mountain. Try to
Speaker 1: remember it and hope he doesn't walk somewhere else. And
Speaker 1: if he does, then I've got to, like sneakily, like
Speaker 1: get to my range finder, lift it up, get a
Speaker 1: new range on the elk, put it back down, draw
Speaker 1: my bow and do all of that. Where now the
Speaker 1: only thing you got to focus on is drawing your
Speaker 1: bow and getting a range right on that elk in
Speaker 1: clear view. I don't like that. Is like I'm more
Speaker 1: opposed to smart bo sites. I like the idea of
Speaker 1: it being more primitive, if we're getting the best seasons.
Speaker 1: Once again, I like the idea that not every elk
Speaker 1: I call in I'm gonna get to kill because of
Speaker 1: brush or because of range, or because he doesn't go
Speaker 1: into the the perfect spot I had planned for him.
Speaker 1: What's your opinion on on you know, these smart bo
Speaker 1: sites and UH and their use in in archery.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I said, I've never used one, but the
Speaker 2: concept if it were, if it's just like anything you know,
Speaker 2: any kind of gadget seems like does it work like
Speaker 2: they say at work or was intended to work? Now,
Speaker 2: if that thing is works flawless, it's like worked really
Speaker 2: really good. Yeah, I just I'm not I'm I'm against it.
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't like it. I don't. I think
Speaker 2: I think you still have to you know, fixed sites
Speaker 2: are good. I don't think you should be able to
Speaker 2: use that, but you know, who knows. I know I
Speaker 2: know people who have had those and like, yeah that
Speaker 2: things sucked. Don't like it, but who knows they might
Speaker 2: have got better. I don't know, but I I personally
Speaker 2: have no no qualms about I don't want to use them.
Speaker 2: I don't want to see I don't want to see
Speaker 2: those in the marketplace. Yeah, in Idaho, you know, we
Speaker 2: you know, they try to keep things as primitive as
Speaker 2: they can. You can't have any kind of battery anything
Speaker 2: on your boat. So if you want to film yourself
Speaker 2: shooting your bow hunting, well you're hunting, you know, put
Speaker 2: a goprol on your camera or on your on your bow.
Speaker 2: You can't do it, which to me is stupid. But
Speaker 2: their opinion is, well, if we allow that, then it
Speaker 2: allows other things to creep in, which I don't agree
Speaker 2: with that concept or mentality. I mean, you guys make
Speaker 2: the laws right, just say a camera is fine as
Speaker 2: long as it you know. But no rangefinders know this,
Speaker 2: no that I mean, just define it. But they kind
Speaker 2: of just like to take the easy route sometimes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I that's kind of where I'm at
Speaker 1: on on smart bo sites like it is. We're the
Speaker 1: same in Washington, like no electronics, so you can't run
Speaker 1: attacked camra o pro or any any like you know.
Speaker 1: Back I think it was even seven eight years ago,
Speaker 1: somebody was trying to like mount the range finder on
Speaker 1: your stabilizer. You click a little button on your riser
Speaker 1: and it would report on a little screen. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: I just I mean, it's cool, but I don't like it.
Speaker 2: It's just more crap. I mean, it's it's a it's
Speaker 2: a gimmick, it's a gadget.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I I want there to be some skill
Speaker 1: in that moment of truth as an archer, like you
Speaker 1: either know the range, you don't know the range, and
Speaker 1: you don't take the shot. You take the risk of
Speaker 1: reaching for your range finder and getting a new range.
Speaker 1: Like all that's part of the game. And I think
Speaker 1: when you if you can take that out it it
Speaker 1: changes the chance for escapement on the rules that were
Speaker 1: put in place for that season for that opportunity. I
Speaker 1: don't like the hunter having that much advantage.
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: Then we're we're gonna let the elephant in the room
Speaker 1: speak and yeah, well we'll just talk about it. Long
Speaker 1: range hunting and the technology changes over the last fifteen
Speaker 1: years on long range hunting? Can you police it? Can
Speaker 1: you not police It's it got to be self policed.
Speaker 1: It would almost be impossible to police. But like, how
Speaker 1: do you deal with long range hunting or do you
Speaker 1: just let it run its course and start to shorten
Speaker 1: seasons and limit opportunity. And I don't even have my data,
Speaker 1: but I'm just got to speculate, like as a as
Speaker 1: just common sense, and maybe somebody's gonna correct me. I
Speaker 1: hope you do if I'm wrong. But I've got to
Speaker 1: imagine that more animals die because of the increased accuracy
Speaker 1: and performance of rifles than they did before when we had,
Speaker 1: you know, a seven mag with a three by nine,
Speaker 1: no ability to move radical like that's what you had.
Speaker 2: Right I kind of look at it like this, we
Speaker 2: haven't seen, at least in Idaho. I don't have the
Speaker 2: numbers in front of me, but we haven't seen some
Speaker 2: giant leap in success rates since people have been able
Speaker 2: to shoot a thousand yards, you know, for the last
Speaker 2: twenty years, people have been able to shoot long range
Speaker 2: and beyond that. But they'll be able to shoot long
Speaker 2: range here in Idaho. But we haven't seen a dramatic
Speaker 2: uptick in some success rates in any of the units.
Speaker 2: I don't think so. To me, like some hunters, and
Speaker 2: I don't want to sound like a condescending jerk. Like
Speaker 2: some hunters, you could almost like do just about anything
Speaker 2: to give them an advantage, and they're still not going
Speaker 2: to get it done. They're not going to get an elk.
Speaker 2: You know. It's you know, they say, you know, uh,
Speaker 2: ten percent of the hunters are killing ninety percent of
Speaker 2: the elk, and the success rates they hover depending on
Speaker 2: the units. Some units are ten percent, some are more
Speaker 2: than that, depend on the weapon, depend on the units.
Speaker 2: Some of the units, you know, they're really good, you know,
Speaker 2: trophy class management units. You know, success rates are high,
Speaker 2: but there's also you know, uh, you know, less hunters
Speaker 2: in the in the average, and then there's more animals
Speaker 2: than average, so your your success rates go up. So
Speaker 2: I'm not one hundred percent against it, I think I
Speaker 2: think the biggest disparency or the biggest line that gets
Speaker 2: drawn here is the people who can't shoot long range
Speaker 2: and have no desire to shoot lang range. They'd like
Speaker 2: they like to hunt traditional with a three three by
Speaker 2: nights go. That's why they hunt. If they if they
Speaker 2: want to, they want to get closer. If they can't
Speaker 2: shoot from where they're at, they just want to get closer.
Speaker 2: And that's that's how they like to hunt. And they
Speaker 2: think it's not good if somebody can shoot along a
Speaker 2: longer shot. The long range aspect. Back what I said
Speaker 2: earlier in the beginning of the podcast. It does open
Speaker 2: up opportunity for people to shoot, you know, past their
Speaker 2: effective range, But so does shooting the old three by
Speaker 2: nine scope without moveable turrets. Like I grew up in
Speaker 2: an era, everybody had a three by nine scope or
Speaker 2: a four power scope or whatever. And when you've seen
Speaker 2: a buck or at a bowl at a long range,
Speaker 2: we didn't have rangefinders, we didn't have movable turrets, and
Speaker 2: people just held over and most people didn't hit anything
Speaker 2: unless they had one on a big open hill side
Speaker 2: and they emptied two boxes of shells on it and
Speaker 2: they shot it and the ass or and then finally
Speaker 2: they would go over there and finish it off. So
Speaker 2: I mean back to like, you can't change the hearts
Speaker 2: of people, right, So people there were bad apples doing
Speaker 2: bad stuff before we could have the capability to shoot
Speaker 2: in long range. And now we still have some of
Speaker 2: those same people around. But I feel like a lot
Speaker 2: of the guys who were like doing it right and
Speaker 2: are successful at it and doing it they do it right.
Speaker 2: They're not like, you know, we know some of the
Speaker 2: best shooters, you know, long range shooters in the world,
Speaker 2: and those guys would be like, they can shoot a
Speaker 2: thousand yards, no problem, they can shoot fifteen hundred yards
Speaker 2: no problem. But they'll say when I'm hunting, I really
Speaker 2: like to reel that back and I don't really feel
Speaker 2: like I should be shooting far on an animal, and
Speaker 2: they usually won't. They they don't. So I don't know,
Speaker 2: and I don't know how you would police it.
Speaker 1: Would you couldn't?
Speaker 2: Would you outlaw range finders? Well, if you outlawed range finders.
Speaker 2: Then people with radicals and a first focal plane scope
Speaker 2: would be able to measure well even the second focal
Speaker 2: plane scope, you would be able to measure distance by
Speaker 2: counting the the tics on your on your on your radical,
Speaker 2: like there's a there's a way around every everything, unless
Speaker 2: you just outlawd moveable turret scopes, and then somebody would
Speaker 2: then we're back to holding over seven feet with your duplex.
Speaker 2: So I don't know what the right answer it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I struggle with it because I've got custom built
Speaker 1: guns and I haven't shot an animal over a thousand
Speaker 1: yards yet, but I shoot regularly over one thousand yards
Speaker 1: with you know, on paper and make sure I've got
Speaker 1: all my my dope charts and drop charts and everything
Speaker 1: figured out and wind drifts. But yeah, I try, you know,
Speaker 1: similar to those others. I try to reel in as
Speaker 1: much as possible. It's still on a hunt. And one
Speaker 1: thing that like I try to check off of my
Speaker 1: brain is like, did I challenge that animal? Did I
Speaker 1: you know his senses? Did he you know, did I
Speaker 1: sneak into three hundred yards? Well, then he had a
Speaker 1: chance to see me, or smell me, or do some
Speaker 1: of these things, and you some people will say, well,
Speaker 1: like the whole point is not to challenge any of
Speaker 1: their senses right and climb up over the ridge. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, but you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: if I got within three hundred yards, like I feel
Speaker 1: better about that versus if I shot him from nine
Speaker 1: hundred and he didn't know I existed, you know, or
Speaker 1: had no no reason to be concerned. But yeah, I've
Speaker 1: always taken things to extremes, like where do you draw
Speaker 1: the line? Like let's say some new weapon and it's
Speaker 1: not outlied by any game commission, Like your gun shoots
Speaker 1: a laser or something, right, and you can shoot something
Speaker 1: at four thousand yards and you're like, well, does the
Speaker 1: guy have the skill? Are we gonna let that happen?
Speaker 1: Like is it a choice? Like is is it a
Speaker 1: range thing? Is it effectiveness thing? Like how do we
Speaker 1: where do we police it? Because let's just say, for instance,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna talk through this, it won't ever happen
Speaker 1: because of the math and the physics involved. But you
Speaker 1: know there's these like extra long range matches right where
Speaker 1: people are making hits at four thousand yards or something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, two and a half miles.
Speaker 2: And the king of two mile.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what if that becomes common technology or there's an
Speaker 1: app that like, oh, yeah, these guys have figured this
Speaker 1: all out. There's a lot of environmental factors, but like
Speaker 1: we got it dialed, like you know, let's say and
Speaker 1: I'm I'm this is me and my imagination, but like,
Speaker 1: all right, we build the AI in the on X
Speaker 1: in the wind and weather, and like they know that
Speaker 1: we're shooting over these ridges from this elevation to that elevation.
Speaker 1: This is what the wind's doing in all those draws. Like, oh,
Speaker 1: we'll come up with a solution for you. Just your
Speaker 1: scope's going to move right to this. Like do we
Speaker 1: let everybody take a shot at a four thousand the
Speaker 1: yard animal and kill it? Like I don't know if
Speaker 1: we ever get there, I don't know, but it's like
Speaker 1: at some point there's gotta be some self policing. And
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a yardage thing, if it's
Speaker 1: a season length thing, how will that work. So I
Speaker 1: love long range hunting for the fact that it really
Speaker 1: sharpens your skills and it makes my three hundred you know,
Speaker 1: my typical three hundred yard hunting shots very easy. With
Speaker 1: the equipment that I have that's built for a thousand
Speaker 1: plus yards. But I don't know, it's a tough one
Speaker 1: to tackle. I don't got the right answers. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I like it, but I wish it was like could
Speaker 1: be policed or managed somehow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just thinking about what you were saying
Speaker 2: about that, you know, the AI figured out atmosphere conditions
Speaker 2: between you and the target. Man, I would have to
Speaker 2: think there's some smart person out there already working on this,
Speaker 2: like be able to project a beam or project something
Speaker 2: between you and the target and somehow of measurable feedback
Speaker 2: of atmospherics between you and there, and then have the
Speaker 2: AI calculate all that. I mean, maybe somebody already the government,
Speaker 2: the government probably already has Yeah, right.
Speaker 1: I'm sure Brian Lets is working on it for the government. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why when that's why our buddy John, Brian probably
Speaker 1: has that in that new applied ballistics app. And that's
Speaker 1: why John couldn't figured it out the other day. It's like,
Speaker 1: all right, you you've you've got all this extra stuff.
Speaker 1: He's parameter. But yeah, I mean there's there are geniuses
Speaker 1: out there, like you know those guys, And I'm sure
Speaker 1: at some point or maybe we just gave them their
Speaker 1: next idea is like, yeah, if you had like a
Speaker 1: rangefinder that could report back environmental conditions at one hundred
Speaker 1: yards two hundred yards to hundred yards and you could
Speaker 1: get like a whatever, it would be like a mean difference,
Speaker 1: you know, and like, well, this is what you really
Speaker 1: need to dial for even though you're shooting two thousand
Speaker 1: yards across these canyons, like I can't. I would not
Speaker 1: be surprised if we got a Facebook announcement tomorrow that says,
Speaker 1: look what's now developed right right? You know, It's just
Speaker 1: it's not beyond you know, beyond that level of technology
Speaker 1: right now. I don't believe.
Speaker 2: But one thing, you know, people have to consider too,
Speaker 2: and I think a lot of people do. But shooting
Speaker 2: long range is actually what you I mean, hitting the
Speaker 2: animal is one thing, but then recovering it. Let's say
Speaker 2: you're by yourself, you don't have a spotter, or maybe
Speaker 2: you do have a spotter. For instance, I kind of
Speaker 2: talked about earlier in the thing about the thermal and
Speaker 2: we spotted a shooter, but we did is too far
Speaker 2: to shoot? Well, it wasn't that we couldn't hit it
Speaker 2: at that far it was like seven hundred yards. But
Speaker 2: this buck, it was late in the evening. You shoot it,
Speaker 2: it goes down. We got to drop eight hundred vertical feet,
Speaker 2: climb six hundred vertical feet and try to find that
Speaker 2: thing in the dark. That's just irresponsible and unethical. Like, no,
Speaker 2: that's stupid, Like we could we have found it. I'd
Speaker 2: like to say maybe probably, but I'm not going to
Speaker 2: gamble on that. I respect the animal too much. All
Speaker 2: I feel like there again, you know, long range shooting,
Speaker 2: you have to be able to recover it too without
Speaker 2: just losing animals.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I I feel like you were taking a job
Speaker 1: at me. Direk on that mountain view Elk count there
Speaker 1: with some of those last comments, because we shot it
Speaker 1: and then had to leave it overnight, but we had
Speaker 1: specific environmental things working for us. But yeah, that is
Speaker 1: it was a concern. You know. We we thought about
Speaker 1: it and where it died, and we're like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: we had to make the decision for the safety of
Speaker 1: all of us in the rocky country and where it
Speaker 1: was at. We had to come back. But thankfully we
Speaker 1: had fifteen degrees at night and the elk landed on
Speaker 1: its belly, you know. And you know we didn't waste
Speaker 1: hardly any of that meat. You know, a little bit
Speaker 1: around the hip sockets, but not much. But yeah, that
Speaker 1: that is a major concern, you know, especially in the mountains.
Speaker 1: You know, being able to shoot long range is great,
Speaker 1: but recovery and recovery in a time where you don't
Speaker 1: waste any meat is also a big concern.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: But I will give a plug to one of our partners,
Speaker 1: Loopole's got a great new spotter that helps in this process.
Speaker 1: If you do shoot that thing, go ahead and range,
Speaker 1: find it and mark it on your on X and
Speaker 1: then just walk over to that point.
Speaker 2: Bama.
Speaker 1: Hey, there you go. That's a that's as as sponsorshippy
Speaker 1: as I'm gonna get or a plug in a product.
Speaker 1: But no, it is that it is a game changer.
Speaker 1: Like I didn't think I would necessarily use that as
Speaker 1: much as I have, but man, it makes it awesome.
Speaker 1: And if your friends don't know you have that technology,
Speaker 1: it makes you look like a freaking genius.
Speaker 2: How you you're that good?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Hey, I looked at the point of the ridge
Speaker 1: and I knew where this tree was and that, and
Speaker 1: use it on my muzzle at or Bowl Recovery, used
Speaker 1: it on a few ques deer last year when we
Speaker 1: were testing it, and makes you look way smarter than
Speaker 1: you really are. Yeah, No, I appreciate you having you on,
Speaker 1: you know, and just walking through these Some of these
Speaker 1: things are tough and there's no right or wrong answers.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, we we use some of this technology,
Speaker 1: we we grow with it, and sometimes I'm a hypocrite
Speaker 1: because it's like, well, I'm gonna use it until it's illegal,
Speaker 1: even though I don't necessarily agree with it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody's got to make their own decision on what's too much,
Speaker 1: how much is too much, and then you know, make
Speaker 1: their decisions on that. But yeah, I appreciate having you on,
Speaker 1: and I do want to let everybody know don't forget
Speaker 1: the sportsman shows we've got going on. We will this.
Speaker 1: This is airing on the thirteenth, I think is a Thursday,
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yeah, which both shows will be active.
Speaker 1: Will be at Western Hunt in Salt Lake City, Utah,
Speaker 1: and then we'll also be at the Pacific Northwest Sportsman
Speaker 1: Show in Portland, Oregon. So if you're in the area, board.
Speaker 1: Head on out, you can take a look for the
Speaker 1: first time at some of our new products. We will
Speaker 1: have the new carbon fiber Beagle tube. At these shows.
Speaker 1: We will have a select amount for sale other carbon
Speaker 1: fiber tubes, fifty of them each show. Nice. We've got
Speaker 1: our new Kivian tube, which is collapsible, smaller than an
Speaker 1: algaene bottle, extends out into a full sized tube. Sound
Speaker 1: amazing in my opinion, amazing sound and good back pressure.
Speaker 1: We've got a new product, the Easy One, that will
Speaker 1: accompany kind of be the the Little Brother, little Sister,
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it to the Easy Sucker.
Speaker 1: And then we will have some new trial packs of
Speaker 1: some new diaphragm frames that we have at all these shows.
Speaker 1: So a big year for Phelps on our ELK category.
Speaker 1: I don't want to say we've stayed away from it,
Speaker 1: but I would say this has like been the big
Speaker 1: you know since twenty sixteen we brought the unleashed to
Speaker 1: the ANT frames, Like this is probably our biggest This
Speaker 1: is probably our biggest you know year category expansion for ELK.
Speaker 1: I would say, so pretty stoked to see see what
Speaker 1: everybody thinks on those. And yeah, head out the show,
Speaker 1: pick yourself up a new tube or you know, at
Speaker 1: least just talk to us, and yeah, we'd appreciate seeing you.
Speaker 2: And if you see Jason Phelps please he'll be at
Speaker 2: the Portland show. Please ask him, Hey, are you gonna
Speaker 2: address I call Cocain again and go all hunting? Give
Speaker 2: the people what they want, Jason. I mean, you really
Speaker 2: need to make it. But if we got enough people
Speaker 2: going up and asking for him to hunt in a
Speaker 2: call Cogain outfit again, we might get to see it again.
Speaker 1: Oh we might not get to see it again. No,
Speaker 1: if I get here, I'll say, if I get fourteen
Speaker 1: thousand people tell me I should hunt in a in
Speaker 1: a whole Cocain outfit, I'll do it.
Speaker 2: So you know the email to send it into what
Speaker 2: is it?
Speaker 1: But let's not let's not get an overwhelming there with emails. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll see, we gotta we'll have to see see how
Speaker 1: much Oak Coming I get to do this year. We've
Speaker 1: got some pretty big plans in the cooker that I
Speaker 1: might have to say for a future episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: So all right, appreciate it, Dirk, take care and we'll
Speaker 1: catch up with you later.
Speaker 2: Yeat