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Speaker 1: Hi everyone.

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Speaker 2: Chuck here on a Saturday to introduce this week's select episode,

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Speaker 2: a curated best of, and this is all about old

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Speaker 2: Chucky Darwin. It's called How Charles Darwin Worked. He's a

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Speaker 2: great person, had a lot of great ideas, and it's

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Speaker 2: pretty groundbreaking stuff. So I hope you guys enjoyed listening

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Speaker 2: to this one, either for the first time or all

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Speaker 2: over again. Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production

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Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and

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Speaker 3: there's Charles w Chuck Bryant. So this is stuff you

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Speaker 3: should know. That's right, unless I forget. Jerry's over there.

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Speaker 1: She's over there.

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Speaker 3: You know, we went like five years. I went five

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Speaker 3: years of this podcast with just mentioning us once in

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Speaker 3: a while mentioning Jerry. But I mean, like, I can't

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Speaker 3: imagine the podcast without Jerry too. Now after five years, finally,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I guess she should stay on.

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Speaker 1: She's earned her place.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, at least she keeps quiet.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 3: How you doing.

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Speaker 1: I'm great.

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Speaker 3: How are you I'm good? Yeah, I'm like low key calm,

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Speaker 3: I'm fine.

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Speaker 1: That's good. I'm a little smelly, which we talked about.

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Speaker 3: I know, but you keep talking about it, which makes

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Speaker 3: the smell worse.

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Speaker 2: What is it about someone's own special sweet tang of

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Speaker 2: a scent that they're.

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Speaker 3: Drawn to like you're drawn to your own tang? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Man, everyone I think like secretly smells their own shoe

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Speaker 2: and their own armpits when they get a little ripe.

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Speaker 3: Maybe we all deep down want to mate with ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Maybe so that's not true because I'm disgusted with myself.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I see you looking at your armpit, eyeing

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Speaker 3: it like that. I know what two on do to

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Speaker 3: that thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I've slipped out twice to day just to smell them.

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Speaker 3: There's a little on your notes.

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Speaker 1: Gross.

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Speaker 3: Uh so, Chuck, you're doing good. I'm doing good. We'll

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Speaker 3: just assume Jerry's doing good. And we're all doing good

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Speaker 3: because we're fairly fit. You know why we're fit, Because

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Speaker 3: we're alive. We are evolving as we speak. We are

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Speaker 3: part of this huge, long, natural procession of change forced

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Speaker 3: by scarcity, competition, the ravages of nature, and we as

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Speaker 3: humans have climbed to the top of the food pyramid

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Speaker 3: of the evolutionary chain and said we own this planet.

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Speaker 3: That's why we're doing good today.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one of my most favorite notions.

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Speaker 3: Evolution.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, natural selection.

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Speaker 2: I think it's like one of the most beautiful things

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Speaker 2: that we've been able to figure out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, evolution gets all the spot like. I'm a big

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Speaker 3: natural selection fan myself too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so divergence. That stuff turns me on that

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Speaker 2: and your smell intellectually.

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Speaker 3: So let's talk about this. You can't have evolution without

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Speaker 3: natural selection again, even though evolution gets all the spotlight. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: at the very least, there's no evolution on Earth without

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Speaker 3: natural selection, right, And the idea of natural selection of

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Speaker 3: evolution in general, the idea that God didn't create everything

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Speaker 3: exactly the way we see it now is a fairly

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Speaker 3: recent notion, despite how tremendously widespread it is. You know

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Speaker 3: Bill Nye, the science guy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, are you talking about his debate?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he got in a debate with ken Ham, just

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Speaker 3: totally off the cuff, not planned at all. They just

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Speaker 3: both happened to be in the same auditorium. I watched

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Speaker 3: the whole thing, did you the whole two hours?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Man, I couldn't pull myself away from it.

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Speaker 3: So I'm guessing that you suspect Bill Nye won the debate.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, are there winners and losers.

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Speaker 3: So don't be shy. There are. Okay, there is a

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Speaker 3: British religious website that pulled its its guests. Yeah, because

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Speaker 3: you know, people who go to websites are called guests.

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Speaker 1: But in England there and said who won?

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Speaker 3: And I think ninety two percent said Bill Nye won?

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Speaker 3: And the reason why is because in the comment section

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Speaker 3: it was revealed that most of these people said, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we believe in God, but evolution is still real and

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Speaker 3: to deny evolution outright is pretty silly.

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Speaker 1: I think when you say things like dragons, you might

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Speaker 1: lose people.

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Speaker 3: Did he say dragons? I didn't see it. Yeah, he

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Speaker 3: mentioned dragons.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's some people. And like you said,

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Speaker 2: religion and science co exist for a lot of religious folk.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but there are some that are very literal

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Speaker 2: and strict in say that you know how to explain

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Speaker 2: dinosaurs while they may have been.

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Speaker 3: Dragons, gotcha, And I don't. That doesn't explain anything. Then, well,

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Speaker 3: I think the dragons are in the Bible. Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: If I'm getting this wrong, I'm going to really get killed.

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Speaker 3: We should pause you for a second. Yeah, Like the

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Speaker 3: point of this episode is not to stomp on anybody's beliefs.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 3: I think science can be just as dogmatic as religion. Sure, so,

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Speaker 3: like that's not what we're doing. No, Like, if you

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Speaker 3: believe in creationism, to each his own, Like, we're not

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Speaker 3: gonna pound our beliefs into you or you know, vice versa.

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Speaker 3: I've never understood that, Like who cares? Just right, it's

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Speaker 3: postuletizing either way. Yeah, you know, it's like convert to

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Speaker 3: my way of thinking, yeah, or else you are just

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Speaker 3: so wrong it's mind boggling. Yeah, but that's not the

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Speaker 3: point of this. No. I think we should just see

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Speaker 3: away with that because that's not what we're Like. There's

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Speaker 3: some people who don't always listen, maybe this is their

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Speaker 3: first episode. Welcome. We are not those kind of guys.

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Speaker 2: No, And specifically with this episode, it's on Charles Darwin

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Speaker 2: the man right and kind of what made him who

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Speaker 2: he was not? And we'll tackle are we committing to

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Speaker 2: go ahead and doing natural selection?

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Speaker 3: I think we shall to pair with this. As a

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Speaker 3: matter of fact, we'll have this one come on on

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Speaker 3: a Tuesday. We'll do natural selection on a Thursday.

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Speaker 1: At that, all right, I agree, let's do it.

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Speaker 3: Let there be like.

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Speaker 2: But Darwin was a fascinating dude though, so yeah, which

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Speaker 2: his own show.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because you can't really overstate the idea that he was,

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Speaker 3: As Robert Lamb puts in this fine article, I have

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Speaker 3: to say one of his best. I agreed that Charles

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Speaker 3: Darwin was the fulcrum by which, or on which the

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Speaker 3: entire sea change from a religious worldview to a scientific

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Speaker 3: worldview took place. It was on this man's shoulders.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Even though oddly enough, he wasn't the only person to

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Speaker 3: come up with natural selection.

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Speaker 1: No, and we'll get to that. He wasn't the first

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Speaker 1: or the last.

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Speaker 2: But it turns out he was the most thorough in

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Speaker 2: his research.

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Speaker 3: Right, and had the most social breeding.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And inbreeding.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, man, this is the ultimate ease.

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Speaker 3: It is. So let's get started, Chuck, Let's talk about Darwin.

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Speaker 3: He didn't. He wasn't born with a Bunsen burner in

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Speaker 3: a flask in his hand.

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Speaker 1: No, he was not.

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Speaker 2: He was born, if anything, with a stethoscope in his hand.

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Speaker 2: Because his father, doctor Robert Waring Darwin, had designs on

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Speaker 2: little Chuck being a doctor like him, right, because he

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Speaker 2: was you know, they had some dough that he was

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Speaker 2: an English gentleman. They weren't poor by any means.

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Speaker 3: No, Apparently his grandfather a massed of vast fortune in China,

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Speaker 3: and not the country, but the porcelain.

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Speaker 2: Oh really yeah, interesting, So it'd be incorrect to say

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Speaker 2: he had a Chinese fortune.

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Speaker 3: He had a China fortune, okay.

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Speaker 2: But little Chuck was not into anatomy. He was definitely

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Speaker 2: not into surgery on humans. It freaked him out. I

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Speaker 2: think he was a little queasy as a person.

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Speaker 3: It seems like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but he was way into the natural sciences and

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Speaker 2: was just fine with dissecting a frog.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, he was cool with biology. As long

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Speaker 3: as you weren't human, he'd cut you, that's right.

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Speaker 2: So he was sent to several schools, first when he

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Speaker 2: was going to be a doctor, to the Anglican Shrewsbury School,

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Speaker 2: then to Edinburgh University, and finally his dad was like,

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Speaker 2: all right, you don't want to be a doctor, so

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Speaker 2: the only other option for you is to be a

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Speaker 2: man of religion.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, parson in the country.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm going to send you to christ College

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Speaker 1: in Cambridge.

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Speaker 3: Which is I mean, if you're going to go be

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Speaker 3: a country parson. You could do a lot worse, agreed.

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Speaker 3: You know, the fighting padres.

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Speaker 1: Is that there go padres.

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Speaker 2: So he was very well educated and had been exposed

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Speaker 2: to all kinds of science, so he was he was

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Speaker 2: a very smart guy from early on, and way into

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Speaker 2: natural science, like I said, but not into the religion

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Speaker 2: thing as much. He was agnostic from a pretty early age.

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Speaker 3: Right, and he seemed like he was going to follow

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Speaker 3: the path that his father was laying out for him,

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Speaker 3: I guess it. Anyway, he was very domineering. Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: Charles Darwin was a pretty great thinker, pretty all around

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Speaker 3: good guy. But he also was a bit of a

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Speaker 3: panting waste. It seems like, you know, he was like

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Speaker 3: really really affected by stress. Site. He had a lot

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Speaker 3: of psychosomatic symptoms from stress pretty much throughout his whole life.

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Speaker 3: Despite that, though, he took a very brave course in life.

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Speaker 3: And it started when he was twenty one and he

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Speaker 3: was on his way to becoming that country parson that

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Speaker 3: his father had decided he would be, and he got

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Speaker 3: an invitation to go on a tour of the islands

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Speaker 3: off South America from a guy named Robert Fitzroy who

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Speaker 3: was twenty six years old. He was an aristocrat and

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Speaker 3: he liked Darwin. He said, hey, you're good at conversations.

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Speaker 3: When I get bored, I suffer abouts of depression. I'm

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Speaker 3: about to go on this boat called the HIMS Beagle

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Speaker 3: for god knows how long. So why don't you come

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Speaker 3: along and we can chat and I won't get depressed.

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Speaker 3: And Darwin said, you know what, what, let's do this.

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Speaker 3: That's right, which is a that's a pretty bold move.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he was for someone who was a would you say,

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Speaker 2: a panty waste, Yeah, panty waste.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of surprising that he was up for that

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Speaker 1: kind of adventure.

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Speaker 3: Yes, a milk toast. You could also call him a

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Speaker 3: milk toast. Maybe we'll call him that, all right. Uh

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Speaker 3: So this was an eighteen thirty one.

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Speaker 2: He boarded the HMS Beagle, which I, for some reason

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Speaker 2: just cracks me up.

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Speaker 3: You know, our buddy Joe from Forward Thinking just adopted

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Speaker 3: a dog. It's part beagle and his name's Darwin. Huh

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Speaker 3: because of that association, I would imagine, Yeah, that would

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Speaker 3: And Joe said he looks like Darwin head on, like

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Speaker 3: bushy eyebrows.

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Speaker 2: That's funny, all right. So he boarded the HMS Beagle.

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Speaker 2: What'd you say, how old was he?

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Speaker 1: Twenty one?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and they.

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Speaker 2: Took a five year voyage around South America. The purpose

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Speaker 2: for Fitzroy was to chart the waters of South America,

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Speaker 2: the coastlines and that kind of thing. But Chuck was like,

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Speaker 2: I'm into natural stuff and species that I don't know,

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Speaker 2: So what better thing to do than spend like most

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Speaker 2: of my time not on the boat but on land

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Speaker 2: just researching stuff.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure he got pretty good at rowing. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: from the ship too, shore back and forth. Yeah. He

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Speaker 3: was basically Paul Bettany's character and master and commander.

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Speaker 2: Well, which is ironic because Paul Bettany play Charles Darwin.

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Speaker 2: Did he really in that movie Creation?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I never saw that, but I know what

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Speaker 3: you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: That's funny. You'd had no idea.

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Speaker 3: Huh No, you stepped right into that one. I wonder

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Speaker 3: if he recognized that.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's a good movie, that Creation, You should check it out.

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Speaker 2: Details a lot of the struggles of his life that

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Speaker 2: we're going to go over here, and mainly is about

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Speaker 2: his anxieties of what he was doing in his relationship

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Speaker 2: to his Christian wife.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'll bet that was kind of a sore

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Speaker 3: spot big time. We'll get to that now in a second.

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Speaker 3: So okay, So they head off to South America. Yes,

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Speaker 3: he's spending two thirds of the voyage. Of this five

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Speaker 3: year voyage, he spends on land. One of the most

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Speaker 3: famous places he visited was the Galapagos, which are still around.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that apparently was really overstated. He was only, uh,

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Speaker 2: what it's still around?

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Speaker 1: Is that a joke?

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Speaker 3: The Galapagos they're still around?

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Speaker 1: Okay. I thought I was missing on something because you

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Speaker 1: looked at me like you're missing a joke.

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Speaker 3: No, that's this look.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, what was that one? Is you smell?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? That was my eyes of water.

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Speaker 2: So the Galapagos apparently was a little overstated significance wise.

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Speaker 2: He was only there for about five weeks out of

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Speaker 2: the five years, and historians think it's been overstated because

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Speaker 2: it was so exotic and people wanted to point to

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Speaker 2: some like kind of fantastical birthplace of all these ideas.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it stuck.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean for sure, and he you know, collected

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Speaker 2: all kinds of different specimens from the Galapagos, but it

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Speaker 2: wasn't as big a deal.

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Speaker 3: Have you ever seen the size of the turtles there are?

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Speaker 3: The tortoises are the huge, dude, They're like the size

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Speaker 3: of VWBO. They're enormous, crazy and apparently like they'll hang

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Speaker 3: out with you.

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Speaker 1: What else are they going to do? Run away slowly?

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Speaker 3: Okay? Yeah, they have no choice, they have agency. They

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Speaker 3: could be like I don't want to be here around you,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to go this way. They just it wouldn't

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Speaker 3: work very well or very quickly. Yeah, okay, so where

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Speaker 3: are we? Man? We are?

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Speaker 1: I was just poopooing the Galapagos. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But what he did while he was gone was he

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Speaker 2: did a lot of great work and made a real

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Speaker 2: name for himself and kind of came back a well

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Speaker 2: known scientist.

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Speaker 3: Scientist because the whole time he's making all these findings,

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Speaker 3: he's finding new species of animals that like Europeans didn't

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Speaker 3: even know existed, Like entire types of animals. He's sending

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Speaker 3: back specimens, which means he killed a lot of animals

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Speaker 3: while he was on these islands. Yeah, mailed them back

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Speaker 3: to Europe, mailed back some of his findings. He's basically

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Speaker 3: writing papers as he's doing this this journey, so back

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Speaker 3: in the jolly Old England there basically becomes this celebrity. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and he was, you know, like before he even returned. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he was.

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Speaker 2: Looking at he had the idea of natural selection, but

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Speaker 2: it was, like we said, it was already out there.

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Speaker 2: It was known as the Mystery of Mysteries or transmutation.

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Speaker 2: And he called his his research at first the Transmutation Notebooks.

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Speaker 3: So is that right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he wasn't, you know, He's researching stuff that he

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Speaker 2: had heard about.

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Speaker 3: It was a working title.

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Speaker 2: It was a working title actually what would later become

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Speaker 2: On the Origin of the Species, of course.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And he and another guy will talk about a

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Speaker 3: little bit, were also inspired. Both were inspired by Thomas Malthus,

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Speaker 3: who we've talked about, who came up with the idea

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Speaker 3: of caring capacity and basically introduced the idea that scarcity

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Speaker 3: and competition forces adaptation and change. And then Darwin and

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Speaker 3: the guy Alfred Wallace Russell or Alfred Russell Wallace both

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Speaker 3: read this and said, well, wait a minute, I wonder

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Speaker 3: if that adaptation and change that's forced by scarcity is

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Speaker 3: what creates the change in species that we're seeing here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was definitely the book was called Essay on

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Speaker 2: Principle of Population and that was like a super game

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Speaker 2: changer because it really gave him like the notion that

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Speaker 2: by studying any species death you can kind of study

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Speaker 2: its life.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was it wasn't just biology that it

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Speaker 3: gave rise to. It gave rise to economics largely. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: a lot of anthropology, a lot of ecology. Like it was,

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Speaker 3: like you say, a game changer.

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Speaker 2: Thomas mouthis, go back and listen to our population podcast.

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Speaker 3: Is that where he appears.

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Speaker 2: I think he appears a few times, But that was

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Speaker 2: a good one. Yeah, it's an oldie, but a goodie. So,

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Speaker 2: like we said, he came back sort of a celebrity

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Speaker 2: of sorts, and he came back with a lot of

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Speaker 2: information and settled in at the Downhouse in Kent, and

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Speaker 2: this place was he spent the next forty years there

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Speaker 2: studying his property essentially, like he didn't need to go anywhere.

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Speaker 2: He had plenty of nature there. Apparently there were forty

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Speaker 2: different species per square meter on his property.

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Speaker 1: He had ten kids and he.

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Speaker 2: Used them as sort of a little laboratory experiment because

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Speaker 2: three of them died. And he was fascinated with why

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Speaker 2: things and people survive and some don't. So it was

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00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,960
Speaker 2: all sort of part of his It was just everything

337
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:39,080
Speaker 2: was part of his laboratory.

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Speaker 1: Essentially.

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Speaker 2: He had people sending him samples from all over the world,

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Speaker 2: and there are some theories that if the postal service

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Speaker 2: hadn't have been so good, he may have never been

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Speaker 2: able to write Origin of the species because he relied

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Speaker 2: on people sending him stuff in due time.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and also he was really big on corresponding,

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Speaker 3: which to help develop his his ideas, flesh him out

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Speaker 3: even further. Was he was huge on correspondence.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: He had an area on his property called the Sandwalk

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Speaker 2: that he had built. It was basically just a loop

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Speaker 2: path through the woods and he would just spend like

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Speaker 2: countless hours just walking this path and thinking and looking

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Speaker 2: at everything.

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Speaker 3: Everything right, nothing escaped his eyes. One of his favorite

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Speaker 3: subjects was earthworms. Remember our Earthworm podcast. Yeah, there was

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Speaker 3: a quote from him in there where he said, it

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Speaker 3: may be doubted whether there are many other animals which

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Speaker 3: have played so important a part in the history of

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Speaker 3: the world as these lowly organized creatures. So he was

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Speaker 3: down with earthworms, down with earth worms and orchids very

360
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Speaker 3: famously too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he was he was active. He wasn't just looking

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Speaker 1: at things.

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Speaker 2: He raised orchids, He was a beekeeper, he raised pigeons, and.

364
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Speaker 1: Like it was all just in the name of study, right.

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Speaker 3: One of the things though, he married his first cousin,

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Speaker 3: his wife. Yeah, and at the time they didn't really

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Speaker 3: know much about the troubles with inbreeding, and he was

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Speaker 3: one of the people who discovered the troubles with inbreeding,

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Speaker 3: and it apparently had a really big effect on him,

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Speaker 3: Like he felt kind of guilty and weird and wondered

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Speaker 3: if maybe his kid's early deaths had to do with that. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: which has to be kind of startling if you're the

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Speaker 3: guy who discovers the problems with inbreeding and you've imbred, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know, Yeah, it's got to be a little jarring.

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Speaker 1: Sure.

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Speaker 2: Emma Wedgwood was his wife's maid name. And one thing

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Speaker 2: that happened when he married her was he got more

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Speaker 2: money because she was also in the family fortune. Right,

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Speaker 2: So they were set up pretty nicely. And like I said,

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Speaker 2: she was Christian and she was amazing though, like the

381
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Speaker 2: Creation movie really like it's a great love story despite

382
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Speaker 2: the fact that they had he was Agnostic and she

383
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Speaker 2: was Christian. She spent her life caring for him because

384
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Speaker 2: he was a very sickly man. Yeah, may have had

385
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Speaker 2: some sort of viral disease. His entire life is maybe

386
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Speaker 2: that he picked up in South America.

387
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Speaker 3: So he wasn't a pennywys.

388
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Speaker 1: No, he was a penny waste on top of that kid.

389
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Speaker 2: So he was just fraught with anxiety, and she cared

390
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,480
Speaker 2: for him and all the kids, and her life's worry

391
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,919
Speaker 2: was are we going to spend eternity together in the afterlife?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was her big concern. Yeah. Which he didn't

393
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Speaker 1: buy that stuff.

394
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Speaker 3: No, And he was, you know, religious ish when he

395
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,920
Speaker 3: was younger, but as he grew older and the lord

396
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:42,200
Speaker 3: and atheist. No, the more he exposed himself to these

397
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Speaker 3: ideas of evolution and natural selection, the less religious, the

398
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Speaker 3: less he bought into it. And it's funny that that

399
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,320
Speaker 3: divide first occurred in him and then it just kind

400
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:57,639
Speaker 3: of grew out from him to create this divide throughout

401
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,680
Speaker 3: the world. Yeah, he was the epicenter of that. It first,

402
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 3: that crack in the world first appeared in him. Yeah,

403
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,639
Speaker 3: isn't that interesting? Yeah, for sure, he's the one to

404
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,160
Speaker 3: blame pretty much, or he was a patient zero one

405
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,439
Speaker 3: of the two. So he comes back to downhouse, he

406
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 3: gets married, settles down doubles his fortune by marrying Emma,

407
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 3: and is experimenting with orchids, earthworms, bees, his kids, all

408
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,240
Speaker 3: this stuff. And he's also at the same time writing.

409
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:36,200
Speaker 3: He's expanding that notebook into what he's calling natural selection,

410
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:41,120
Speaker 3: another working title, and he is taking his sweet time

411
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Speaker 3: with it. One of the reasons he's taking his sweet

412
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,440
Speaker 3: time with this is one he is being very diligent.

413
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 3: He's making sure he's crossing all of his te's, dotting

414
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:51,920
Speaker 3: his eyes, making sure he's not looking at it wrong,

415
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 3: making sure he's backing up everything. And the second connected

416
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 3: reason to that first one is that he is really

417
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,320
Speaker 3: not looking forward to the storm yea that this is

418
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 3: going to create when he unleashes it on the public.

419
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,400
Speaker 3: He was well aware of it from the beginning. Yeah,

420
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,159
Speaker 3: because there's a couple of things that are inherent in

421
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 3: the theory of natural selection.

422
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 1: I'm going to add a third reason, my friend.

423
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Speaker 2: Oh okay, if you're studying natural selection, evolution takes a

424
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 2: long time. Well, oh yeah, you can't study something for

425
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,119
Speaker 2: a week and detect changes. And like you said, he

426
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 2: was thorough because he lived his life basically an anxiety

427
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 2: of not being accepted by these peers, right, and like

428
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 2: these were people, these were friends of his.

429
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 3: So his procrastination was definitely fear driven by his peers

430
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 3: and by society at large.

431
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 2: And by the fact that it just takes a long

432
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 2: time to study something like this, right right. For instance,

433
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 2: he left an area of his lawn unmowed for twenty

434
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 2: years just to study what would happen.

435
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 3: And out of like that sounds like an excuse now, exactly.

436
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 2: There, But out of like the twenty different species he studied,

437
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 2: eleven survived and nine died away. So boom, natural selection

438
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 2: right there, just in a portion of his lawn, right, Okay,

439
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 2: But it took twenty years as the point.

440
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,360
Speaker 3: Okay, so time, fear of his peers, fear of the public.

441
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 3: And he had good reason to fear or be anxious

442
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 3: because the world was a much different place than it

443
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,639
Speaker 3: is now, and he was well aware that what he

444
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 3: was about to unleash on society was going to create

445
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 3: some big changes and some big problems. And we'll get

446
00:22:30,680 --> 00:23:00,119
Speaker 3: into that right after this message. And so, Chuck, we're

447
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 3: talking about Darwin. He's at his house downhouse he's working

448
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 3: on his manuscript. He's kind of procrastinating a little bit,

449
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 3: and because it takes time to but he knows that

450
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 3: he's about to unleash this complete change in paradigm, a

451
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 3: poopstorm onto the world exactly. And it's because the world

452
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 3: was a much different place than it is today because

453
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 3: Darwin hadn't talked about natural selection yet.

454
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean religion religious biology was biology, right, They

455
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 2: didn't call it religious biology, that was just biology.

456
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 3: Yeah.

457
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 2: So he was the first one to secularize it and

458
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 2: make it just about the science.

459
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, because before scientists thought like, well, God created this

460
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 3: and that is our starting point. Like everything else, every

461
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 3: other scientific explanation we have has to trace back to creation,

462
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 3: which is kind of It can make science a little

463
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 3: but at the same time, it leaves you open to

464
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 3: a huge problem when somebody comes along and can fill

465
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 3: in all these other gaps through a completely different explanation

466
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 3: that doesn't use creationism. And that's what darn was doing

467
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 3: with natural selection.

468
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead, and not a fourth thing, man.

469
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 3: You just keep them coming.

470
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 2: There were two texts that were vital, and we talked

471
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 2: about one of them, The mouthus principle of population.

472
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 1: In eighteen forty four, there was a book written.

473
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 2: Called The Vestiges of the Natural History of Creation and

474
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 2: it was published anonymously for forty years. No one kne

475
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 2: who wrote it because no one wanted to put their

476
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 2: name on it.

477
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:42,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like that's how radical it was.

478
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 2: And it was slammed, like it was hugely popular. It

479
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: was like a phenomenon, Like everybody read it and everybody

480
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 2: slammed it, and it came out later. It was a

481
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 2: guy named Robert Chambers. He was a Scottish journalist. But

482
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 2: what Darwitz scared the crow out of Darwin there was

483
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 2: like mother, Yeah, because it was mom. It was a

484
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 2: lot of the same same ideas as he had. So

485
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: what it did was it caused him to basically rewrite

486
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 2: his voluminous work and pare it down and armor it

487
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 2: with sturdier armor over the next thirteen months.

488
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 1: Smart, very smart.

489
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 3: I mean you could say for him that that was

490
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 3: a stroke of luck that that was published and he

491
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 3: read it and saw what happened.

492
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 1: Dude, total stroke of luck.

493
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 2: He might have been laughed out of existence, Yeah, if

494
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 2: he had have gotten there first.

495
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 3: So he goes back, redoubles his efforts strengthens his argument. Yeah,

496
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 3: and again he's combating not just the religious ideals of

497
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 3: the time, but the religious ideals of science. Yeah, like

498
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 3: most scientists at the time were deists. When deists believed

499
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 3: that God created the universe basically like a clockmaker makes

500
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 3: a clock, wound it up and walked away like see

501
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,199
Speaker 3: you later, good luck with everything, And then anything that

502
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 3: happened as a result after that was the result of

503
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 3: the mechinations of this clock. And there was a theory

504
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 3: that was fairly well accepted called catastrophism, Yes, and that

505
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 3: basically sought to account fossils, because fossils were a big

506
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 3: sticking point. Why were there clearly extinct animals that had

507
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 3: lived before there's fossils, we have them in our hands.

508
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 3: Why do these kind of resemble the things that are

509
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 3: alive today. Yes, that doesn't make any sense. Well, catastrophism

510
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 3: which was suggested by a guy named George Cuvier, and

511
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 3: Cuvier said that catastrophism, which.

512
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: One I like the second one catastrophism.

513
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 3: Catastrophism says that something happens volcanoes, floods, pestilence, something very

514
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 3: biblical happens and a species dies out in an area

515
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 3: and a new species comes in and fills it in,

516
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 3: and maybe that species just from living in proximity, was similar.

517
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 3: And they that that explains why some are extinct and

518
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 3: some are now here.

519
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: I would also call that coincidences.

520
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's another way to put it. That's another pronunciation.

521
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 1: It wasn't like super science based.

522
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 3: Right, but this is these like these. This was a

523
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:31,239
Speaker 3: well respected scientist, and this was the prevailing thought at

524
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 3: the time that creationism and the natural sciences went hand

525
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 3: in hand. Creationism was the basis for it. And Darwin

526
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,959
Speaker 3: is about to say, you know, the basis that everybody's

527
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 3: built science on for the last several centuries. Yeah, it's

528
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 3: not that's that doesn't hold water. And then he went

529
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 3: and threw up again and again apparently a lot. Yeah.

530
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 3: When his when on the Origin of the species came

531
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 3: out in eighteen fifty nine, he was at a spa

532
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 3: recovering from knowledge. Yeah, so, yeah, he was off throwing up.

533
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: I felt bad for the guy. Sure, he was just

534
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 1: racked with anxiety his entire life.

535
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 3: But imagine that. Imagine being racked with anxiety and still

536
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 3: going through it.

537
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: It's pretty impressive. It is so previous to its publication.

538
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 2: Another important thing happened we mentioned earlier. Alfred Russell Wallace.

539
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 2: He was a fellow Englishman and specimen collector, and he

540
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:32,199
Speaker 2: basically wrote almost exactly the same thing that Darwin had

541
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: been working on, sent it to Darwin, and people urged

542
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 2: them both to present their works at something called the

543
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 2: lenae In Society in eighteen fifty eight. They did so

544
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 2: together as a team. But it wasn't it didn't kind

545
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 2: of make much of a splash at the time. It

546
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: wasn't until he officially published his work that it, you know,

547
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 2: made the splash, right.

548
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 3: And Alfred Alfred Russell Wallace actually was the impetus for

549
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 3: him to publish Origin of the Species. He'd been sitting

550
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 3: there dawdling, waiting, waiting, waiting, procrastinating, not mygage long, yeah,

551
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 3: And he got a letter from Wallace, like you said,

552
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 3: and he realized, holy cow, Wallace has come up with

553
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 3: the same thing. I've been working on this for thirty years.

554
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna forget that, forget my anxiety. I'm just

555
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 3: publishing this puppy. And he did, and it came out

556
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 3: in eighteen fifty nine, and he was hailed as a

557
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 3: villain and a genius, depending on who you spoke to.

558
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 3: And let's talk about the origin of the species and

559
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 3: what it says and what natural selection means Chuck. First

560
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 3: of all, the official title of the book is on

561
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 3: the Origin of Species by means of natural selection, or

562
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 3: the preservation of favored races in the Struggle for life. Yeah,

563
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 3: and that's why everybody calls the original species because it's

564
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 3: long and wordy, right, But what it basically says is

565
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 3: that species adapt. They adapt due to population pressure. They

566
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 3: adapt through competition with one another between species inside species

567
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 3: that when you see like slightly different traits, individual traits

568
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 3: are to be expected. But those individual traits can ultimately

569
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 3: lead to a new species on a long enough time

570
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 3: table if those traits make their increase their chance of

571
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 3: surviving to reproduction, age and enhance their ability to reproduce.

572
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, And if you don't, if you aren't good

573
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: at that, then you go bye bye.

574
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: Right.

575
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 3: And this explains why some species are extinct, why the

576
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 3: ones that are here today are the winners. And chillingly

577
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 3: that all of this is still going on, it's very

578
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 3: very slow, so we can't see it happens on a

579
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 3: glacial timescale or geologic time scale. But it's still going on.

580
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 3: And here's proof. The thing that he doesn't come out

581
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 3: in state. But that wasn't lost on the Victorians, especially

582
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 3: the religious victorians. Is that inherent in that argument is

583
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 3: that man, the king of the world, is nothing more

584
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 3: than an animal that evolved from who knows what.

585
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet I bet he fretted over that so

586
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 2: much because he believed it. But I think there are

587
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 2: only two mentions of man kind in the entire work,

588
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 2: But the implications were clear, Like the public at large

589
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 2: may not have been wise to it at first, but

590
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 2: scientists were like, wait a minute, are you saying that

591
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: we came from from apes?

592
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 3: He's like, I'm at a spa recovering from nausea. I

593
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 3: can't be.

594
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: But yeah, he definitely skirted around coming out and saying

595
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 2: that upfront in plain English.

596
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it caused, like you said, a poop storm.

597
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I guess we should say Russell Wallace was.

598
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 2: He's been sort of lost to history as far as

599
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 2: you know what most people know.

600
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sad.

601
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: It is sad because he was a smart guy, but

602
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 2: he wasn't He had no standing, like Darwin did, and

603
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 2: that's kind of one of the reasons he was forgotten

604
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 2: to history.

605
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 3: Right. He he was out in the field, and he

606
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 3: was he seemed to be happiest out in the field.

607
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 3: After this this theory was introduced, he retreated back to

608
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 3: the Melee Peninsula. Yeah, to collect specimens.

609
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he would sell them, which kind of degraded

610
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 2: his standing, I think.

611
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 3: Right, just but he was using those funds to further

612
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 3: fund more scientific exploration, you know, It's not like he

613
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 3: was funding his opium habit or no.

614
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 2: But the point is Darwin didn't need to sell it,

615
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 2: so I think he was. People were like, well, this

616
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 2: guy's collecting species and selling them.

617
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 3: He's a merchant, right, exactly, That's exactly right. And regardless

618
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 3: of whether Wallace Russell was a you know, a great

619
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 3: scientist or not, it didn't matter. If you put these

620
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 3: two men and their theories were exactly equal, but one

621
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 3: was of higher social standing and greater wealth, Well that

622
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 3: guy won, sure, and that was Darwin. So Darwin became

623
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 3: the fittest he will, exactly under Victorian aristocracy rules. But

624
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 3: he became the again, the rallying point, the fulcrumb, the

625
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 3: center of the universe and this new debate that he

626
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 3: unleashed between creationism and evolution that's still going on today

627
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 3: literally not today, but a couple of weeks ago, right,

628
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 3: so almost literally, And he didn't like that at all.

629
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 3: So what he said was, you know what, you guys

630
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 3: talked this over. I'm gonna go hit the spa, yeah,

631
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:18,240
Speaker 3: and do what you want with it. Right, I'm going away.

632
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,959
Speaker 3: I've got alan to not mow. But lucky for him,

633
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 3: he had a lot of supporters, like right out of

634
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 3: the gate.

635
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, he had both.

636
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 2: He had supporters scientists that I think some wanted wanted

637
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 2: to say this stuff all along, and now that they

638
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 2: had such a wonderful, concise and well researched piece of

639
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 2: work to back them up, they came out of the

640
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 2: woodwork and like, yeah, see this is great. But some

641
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 2: people weren't. In fact, I think, oh, I can't remember

642
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: the guy's name. Someone he really respected and his wife

643
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: really respected basically slammed him in called it heresy, and

644
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 2: that was really impactful. Again more anxiety, oh yeah, more

645
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 2: throwing up.

646
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 3: And there was a lot of name calling. There was

647
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 3: a lot of political cartoons that were unflattering and unflattering

648
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 3: for the Victorian age, so basically his head on a

649
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 3: monkey or something like that.

650
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: Right.

651
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 3: But while he had his detractors, he had his supporters.

652
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 3: And there was one guy in particular named Thomas Huxley,

653
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 3: and he was I believe the grandfather of Aljuis Huxley.

654
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 3: Uh huh. And sometimes you'll if you see Darwin's theory mentioned,

655
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 3: you'll see the Darwin slash Huxley theory because Huxley basically

656
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 3: was a religious man yea. And Darwin, I think firsthand,

657
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 3: not just through the origin of the species, but through

658
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 3: the correspondence as well, convinced him, like no, dude, natural

659
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 3: selection is actually right, and very ironically, just like Saul

660
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 3: converting to Paul on the Road to Damascus, Huxley converts

661
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 3: from a religious fervent to a natural selection fervent. Yeah,

662
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 3: and he just takes it with religious zelotry and starts

663
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 3: taking on anybody he can in debate, writing any article

664
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 3: he can, and defending not just Darwin but his his

665
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 3: theory as well.

666
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

667
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 3: And it came so much so that he came to

668
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 3: be known as Darwin's bulldog.

669
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 1: Yeah.

670
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 3: And he actually coined the term agnostic. Oh really, Yeah,

671
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,919
Speaker 3: he was the one that coined that term to differentiate

672
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 3: people like himself who was who were still believers in

673
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 3: God but also fervent believers in natural selection as well.

674
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 1: Huh yeah, that's pretty cool.

675
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 2: So that wasn't the only thing he wrote that was

676
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 2: his life's work, for sure. But he wrote eleven more,

677
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 2: published eleven more times before eighteen eighty two, and then

678
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 2: finally in nineteen seventy three, which is pretty old for

679
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: someone who was in such ill health his entire life.

680
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: Sure, heart attack finally got him. Yeah, very sad.

681
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,720
Speaker 3: It is, but he lived a good long nausea did life.

682
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 3: You know.

683
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 1: It's a good point. So I guess we should talk

684
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: a little bit about.

685
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 2: His legacy, right, Yeah, you do that kind of work,

686
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 2: you pass away, you're gonna have a legacy.

687
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 3: Sure, they name a city in Australia after you. Really,

688
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 3: I believe it's Darwin, Australia. Please, guy, don't let it

689
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 3: be New Zealand. You want to look No, Okay, I'm

690
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 3: feeling like a gambling man.

691
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: Today, gotcha.

692
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 2: So his influence from then on and continues to be today.

693
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 2: Lamb calls it rightfully, so a paradigm shift in science,

694
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,800
Speaker 2: society and literature, Like it can't be understated. It was

695
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 2: a game changer for kind of everything and the way

696
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 2: things went. You're on one side or the other.

697
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 3: It's like meo water, it changes everything. What's that You

698
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 3: haven't seen the ad?

699
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: Uh?

700
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 3: For like the little droplets of flavoring you can add

701
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 3: to your water.

702
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: I've seen that.

703
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 3: So you haven't seen the ad where the guys in

704
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 3: the office talking and like as you as they cut

705
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 3: back and forth, everything keeps changing because they're adding meal.

706
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 3: Oh it's one of the better ads around. And you

707
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 3: know me, I'm an ad aficionado.

708
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: That's true.

709
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 2: Well, one thing we can point to is that Herbert Spencer,

710
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 2: he was a sociologist after Darwin, applied Darwinism to sociology

711
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 2: in the form of social Darwinism aka survival of the

712
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 2: fittest right, which it didn't bastardize it, but it definitely

713
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 2: he definitely used it for his own purposes to say that,

714
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 2: you know what, the week, we shouldn't even worry about

715
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 2: the week. If we want to be a strong mankind,

716
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 2: then let the weak die out.

717
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 3: Well, you know, so this sociologist that came up with

718
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 3: this idea of social Darwinism Herbert Spencer. Yeah, that's a

719
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 3: very Malthusian view of humanity and nature. Yeah, because Malthus

720
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 3: was basically saying, like, look, man, we take care of

721
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 3: the poor and every thing, but if we do that,

722
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 3: we're interfering with nature and we're going to end up

723
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 3: overburdening the population because population is going to grow geometrically

724
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 3: and we're not going to be able to support ourselves,

725
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 3: and society's going to collapse. That was what Malthus was saying.

726
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 3: This guy said, yeah.

727
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's weird that Darwin was in the middle of

728
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,879
Speaker 2: kind of both bookended by these two two ideas, and.

729
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 3: I think it really just you can kind of say,

730
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 3: like it really just kind of he was lacking a

731
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 3: bit of evil, where if he had been a little

732
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 3: more evil, maybe he would have come up with social

733
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 3: Darwinism himself, but he didn't. Herbert Spencer did, and it

734
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 3: kind of took off like a rocket, this idea, like yeah,

735
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 3: wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, we

736
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 3: don't need to pay taxes anymore, we don't need to tithe.

737
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 3: We can just you know, let the poor die in

738
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 3: the streets. It's social Darwinism, survival of the fittest. We

739
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 3: don't have to feel guilt for not taking care of

740
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 3: these other people any longer. The survival of the fittest.

741
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 3: They weren't meant to be, and basically they replaced God's

742
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 3: will with nature's will.

743
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

744
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 3: In the in explaining the cruelty of the world.

745
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.

746
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, And like I said, it took off. It became

747
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 3: what we call the eugenics movement very quickly.

748
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, which was the idea that the government would actually

749
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 2: get involved in weeding out the weaker parts of society.

750
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you don't have to wait around for evolution

751
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 3: to do this. We can speed it up by picking

752
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 3: out the weakest and and exterminating them.

753
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,439
Speaker 2: Or at the very least letting them exterminate themselves by

754
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 2: only breeding.

755
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,280
Speaker 1: You know, the the Boys from Brazil.

756
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I finally saw half of that movie. I can't

757
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 3: tell you how surprised I was. Surprised I was to

758
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 3: see Steve Gutenberg.

759
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 2: Oh Goods was one of the kids, wouldn't he He

760
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 2: was like the first one. Yeah, yeah, God, I forgot

761
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 2: about that.

762
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:58,439
Speaker 3: Oh wait a minute. He was one of the kids

763
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 3: from the experiment. He was like the journalist. It's like

764
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 3: blowing the cover off of this whole thing.

765
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: I haven't seen him a long time. Yeah, I know.

766
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: It's creepy though. So yeah, possibly gave.

767
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 3: Birth to eugenics, which we should say obviously the Nazis loved,

768
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 3: and they used that to rationalize the extermination of the Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, epileptics,

769
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 3: the mentally handicapped, the blind, everybody.

770
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: Guys who smelled like me.

771
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, you would have been in big trouble. But prior

772
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 3: to the Nazis doing this, the United States, Indiana, Georgia,

773
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 3: all sorts of other states forced sterilization on people of

774
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:49,879
Speaker 3: the similar stature, and actually Adolf Hitler, well, Germany had

775
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 3: its own sterilization program as well, but Adolf Hitler was

776
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,800
Speaker 3: apparently well aware of what was going on in America

777
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 3: and was a pretty big fan of it. And if

778
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 3: you don't believe me, go back and listen to our episode.

779
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 3: Is it legal to sterilize addicts?

780
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: Oh?

781
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's still going on today. Yeah. So what

782
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 3: about this deathbed recan have you ever heard that?

783
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: I have? Not? True?

784
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 3: Apparently, so he supposedly said on his deathbed basically.

785
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 1: I take it all back.

786
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wish I hadn't ever said this. It's not true.

787
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,800
Speaker 3: You know, God is God is good, God's the one.

788
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 3: And a woman from New England named Lady Hope claimed

789
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 3: that she was there and took this confession, and both

790
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 3: his daughter and his son, who were both at his

791
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 3: side while he died, said this lady was not at

792
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 3: his deathbed. She never came to our house, right, and

793
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 3: she had absolutely no influence on our father's way of

794
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 3: looking or judgment or opinions at all. He never recanted

795
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 3: to the end. He was an ardent supporter of natural selection.

796
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a pretty good idea, though if you're a creationist, well,

797
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 2: I mean to make up that story, like the father

798
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 2: of evolution even changed his mind on his deathbed.

799
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 3: If you look up today on the internet, like I think,

800
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 3: darwin deathbed even will bring up like creationist website after

801
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 3: creationist website. They use it to support their claims.

802
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 1: Oh really, but it's bunk.

803
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 3: It was debunked right afterward. Yeah, and then chuck, let

804
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 3: me say when we're thing about social Darwinism. Okay, this idea,

805
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,479
Speaker 3: although in a very cold calculated sense it might make sense,

806
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 3: it doesn't appear in humanity's history. In fact, there's evidence

807
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 3: from up to five hundred thousand years ago of severely

808
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 3: disabled people fossils, their fossil their remains being found where

809
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 3: they could not possibly have lived to the age they

810
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 3: lived to without being cared for by their community.

811
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:55,919
Speaker 1: Wow.

812
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 3: So this idea that you know, in a more primitive state,

813
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 3: we just you know, left people to die out in

814
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 3: the weather because they couldn't keep up. Yeah, it doesn't

815
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 3: hold water.

816
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 1: Well, that's good to know.

817
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is very comforting that.

818
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: So that means we were innately have compassion as a species.

819
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 3: I would guess that. Yeah, that's what I like to

820
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 3: look at it. I think it's one of the things

821
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 3: that makes us human, agreed, but not just us. No

822
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 3: other species have compassion to tots, So maybe we should.

823
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 3: Why don't you play us out with a little bit

824
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 3: of Darwin Man.

825
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, the last paragraph of the origin of the species,

826
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 2: to me, is one of the most beautiful things ever written.

827
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna read it.

828
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 2: It is interesting to contemplate an entangled bank, and he's

829
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 2: talking about his home in.

830
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 3: Kent, that patch of grass.

831
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, now all of it.

832
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 2: It is interesting to contemplate an entangled bank clothed with

833
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 2: many plants of many kinds, with birds singing on the bushes,

834
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 2: with various insects flitting about, and with worms crawling through

835
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,320
Speaker 2: the damp earth. And to reflect that these elab sperately

836
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 2: constructed forms, so different from each other and dependent on

837
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 2: each other in so complex a manner, have all been

838
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 2: produced by laws acting around us. These laws, taken in

839
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 2: the largest sense, being growth, with reproduction, inheritance which is

840
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 2: almost implied by reproduction, variability from the indirect and direct

841
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 2: action of the external conditions of life, and from use

842
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 2: and disuse. A ratio of increase so high is to

843
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 2: lead to a struggle for life, and as a consequence

844
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 2: to natural selection, entailing divergence of character and the extinction

845
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 2: of less improved forms. Thus, from the war of nature,

846
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 2: from famine and death, the most exalted object which we

847
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:42,320
Speaker 2: are capable of conceiving, namely the production of the higher animals,

848
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 2: directly follows. There is grandeur in this view of life,

849
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 2: with its several powers having been originally breathed into a

850
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 2: few forms, or into one. That's where he's kind of

851
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 2: skirting around things, And that whilst this planet has gone

852
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 2: cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity from

853
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 2: so simple, the beginning, endless forms, most beautiful and most

854
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 2: wonderful have been and are being evolved.

855
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: Bravo, good stuff, Chuck, not me.

856
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 3: Both of you. That was a great reading. D I

857
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 3: felt like I was in our Halloween episode again. Oh yeah,

858
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 3: yeah it was good, Chuck. Don't think me, Chucks, I

859
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 3: can just read you got anything else?

860
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: Got nothing else?

861
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 3: I think that was a fine way to end this one.

862
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 3: If you want to learn more about Charles Darwin the

863
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 3: man and his ideas, you can type Darwin into the

864
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 3: search bar at HowStuffWorks dot com. It should bring up

865
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 3: a whole bunch of articles, some of which we will

866
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 3: record into podcasts.

867
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, or that movie creation is really good. Or if

868
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 2: you're into documentaries, there are tons of them. The BBC's

869
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 2: got like a dozen.

870
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,399
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they love him there.

871
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 1: Sure.

872
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 3: Well, since I said search bar, I probably did. It's

873
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 3: time for listener.

874
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 1: Man before the mail. There's a quick correction.

875
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 2: In our Kent stateisode, we said Mussolini had his brown shirts.

876
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 3: Yeah there were the black shirts. Duh, No, Biggie, it's

877
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 3: the presence of all color, not the presence of some colors.

878
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 1: Brown is the new black anyway?

879
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 3: Is that right?

880
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: Orangees.

881
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna call this amputee amputee.

882
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 3: Like ampute comma ampute.

883
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: Okay, hey, guys, been listening for a couple of years

884
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 2: now and really enjoy it. As a sixty year old

885
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 2: woman who had to right leg amputated above the knee

886
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty nine due to cancer, I was especially

887
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 2: interested in that podcast. First, I want to correct one

888
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 2: offhand comment which you stated that being an amputee probably

889
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 2: becomes the focus of your life, not always. In my case,

890
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,479
Speaker 2: being an amputee did not become the focus. In fact,

891
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 2: occasionally friends forget that I am an amputee. Now I

892
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 2: consider it a compliment. As you said, life is an

893
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 2: over because a person becomes an amputee. I was married

894
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 2: for twenty years, went to graduate school from my master's

895
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 2: degree in counseling psychology, two wonderful grown children.

896
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,240
Speaker 1: I worked from the age of fourteen to fifty five.

897
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 2: With time off for raising kids, and attended graduate school,

898
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 2: and have been able to travel quite a bit. I've

899
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 2: been lucky not to have experienced phano pain. I have

900
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 2: always had and have been told by my doctors, will

901
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 2: always have phantom feeling.

902
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 3: Though it feels is so weird.

903
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 2: I know it feels as though my amputated leg is

904
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 2: present but asleep, sort of a benign, prickly feeling. The

905
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,839
Speaker 2: feeling quickly faded into the background, and I only notice

906
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 2: it now when I'm thinking about it. You may be

907
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 2: interested also to know that the artificial leg I received

908
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty nine was literally a wooden leg from

909
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 2: the knee down. I am now on my fourth prosthesis prosthestid.

910
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 3: I thought she's going to say, like an old Bessie

911
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 3: still with me.

912
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,919
Speaker 2: I'm now on my fourth prosthesis and they get better

913
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 2: and better. My current leg is very high tech and impressive.

914
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 3: It can make coffee.

915
00:48:55,480 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 2: That is from Denise Slatyengren awesome from Arcada Arcata, California.

916
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 3: Nice not Arcadia, that's northern California, a rc A t A.

917
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 3: Thanks Denise. You sound like a very well adjusted person

918
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 3: and we appreciate you writing and calling us out on that.

919
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: And I hope you still have old Betty on the

920
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: shelf somewhere at.

921
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 3: Least it's Betsy Chuck Betsy. Yeah, I would keep it,

922
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 3: just got it carved into the side. Nice, you know. Yeah,

923
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 3: thanks for writing in and if any of you out

924
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 3: there want to write in share your story. We love

925
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 3: hearing them. We're pretty much like the central clearinghouse for

926
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 3: people's stories, So bring them to us. We will disseminate

927
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 3: them as best we can. Right You can go on

928
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 3: to stuff youshould Know dot com and check out our

929
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 3: social links, and you can also send us a good

930
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 3: old fashioned email, Wrap it up, spank it on the

931
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 3: bottom with it some good old country goodness, and send

932
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 3: it off to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff

933
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 3: you Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio.

934
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:04,280
Speaker 2: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

935
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.