1
00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:07,960
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.

2
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:19,760
Speaker 1: Never told your protection of I heart radio. All right,

3
00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,520
Speaker 1: y'all um, I am so excited today to be talking

4
00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,960
Speaker 1: with two of the founders of Asian American Feminist Collective.

5
00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,960
Speaker 1: And I stumbled onto their site and on Instagram and

6
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:33,440
Speaker 1: if you are able to go see it, you should,

7
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,400
Speaker 1: uh And it got really excited because the group in

8
00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,560
Speaker 1: the platform is an amazing platform that talks about what

9
00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,520
Speaker 1: it is to be Asian American feminists and also being

10
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,479
Speaker 1: allies and pushing forward in a revolution in a time

11
00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,440
Speaker 1: that we really need to have the conversation of what

12
00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,800
Speaker 1: is racism and why is it so harmful and impactful

13
00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,600
Speaker 1: and how does it even affect communities of colors and

14
00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,080
Speaker 1: specifically the Asian American community, and why we need to

15
00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,720
Speaker 1: have a bigger conversation on being a good ally. And

16
00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,160
Speaker 1: I'm completely fan growing right now a little bit, so

17
00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:11,240
Speaker 1: I'm having more hard time using all my words because

18
00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,080
Speaker 1: they are powerhouses and every time I see or look

19
00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,760
Speaker 1: at what they're doing is intimidating. Y'all are intimidating. I

20
00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:21,520
Speaker 1: just want to put that out there, so excuse my mumbling,

21
00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,560
Speaker 1: but can you introduce yourself for our audience. Yeah, definitely. Well,

22
00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,120
Speaker 1: we're really excited to be here. Thank you so much

23
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,760
Speaker 1: for having us. UM. My name is Santi Sojoball and

24
00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,240
Speaker 1: I'm a co founder and co leader of the Asian

25
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:38,840
Speaker 1: American Feminist Collective. I am based in Brooklyn. I'm a

26
00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:43,920
Speaker 1: native New Yorker and I'm a first generation South Asian American. UM.

27
00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,640
Speaker 1: I'm Indian and I moved to the US when i

28
00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,440
Speaker 1: was four and so I'm really excited to be talking

29
00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,880
Speaker 1: to you about cross racial solidarity in this moment because

30
00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,280
Speaker 1: I think it's something our communities are really hungry for,

31
00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,480
Speaker 1: um and something we really need to be talking about. Yeah,

32
00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,200
Speaker 1: and I'm Saloni Baman. I'm also a co leader of

33
00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,160
Speaker 1: the Asian American Feminist Collective, though actually not a co

34
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,520
Speaker 1: founder UM. I joined about a year ago. I am

35
00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,720
Speaker 1: also a first generation South Asian American. I'm Indian and

36
00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:16,800
Speaker 1: I moved to the US when I was about eight

37
00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,280
Speaker 1: years old. And I'm originally from Los Angeles or I

38
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,960
Speaker 1: mean originally from India. I grew up in Los Angeles

39
00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,000
Speaker 1: and UM, this is my tent here in New York City,

40
00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,799
Speaker 1: which is where I'm based. But I'm so excited to

41
00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,959
Speaker 1: have this conversation. I think it's something that's been kind

42
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,959
Speaker 1: of on all of our radars for a long time. Um,

43
00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,080
Speaker 1: not just being a good ally but how to really

44
00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,280
Speaker 1: be in solidarity with a movement for liberation and think

45
00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,200
Speaker 1: about kind of collective liberation. And I'm none of us

46
00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,079
Speaker 1: sur free until we all get free, you know. And again,

47
00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 1: I I'm so excited to have you on because I've

48
00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,920
Speaker 1: chaired with our audience. We've been talking about issues of

49
00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,560
Speaker 1: ally ship and what it means to not only be

50
00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,160
Speaker 1: not racist, but in hi racist and why that's an

51
00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:05,360
Speaker 1: important conversation. And for me myself, I've had a huge

52
00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,880
Speaker 1: struggle in being an Asian woman raised by white people.

53
00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:10,680
Speaker 1: So I I was adopted and I came into the

54
00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,240
Speaker 1: U S when I was seven, and I love my

55
00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,799
Speaker 1: family dearly, but it absolutely is ingrained with the whole

56
00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:22,440
Speaker 1: modern racist idea and growing up in that environment, fighting

57
00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:26,000
Speaker 1: that growing up and knowing that I was somehow being

58
00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,040
Speaker 1: lessered because I was a brown person underneath a white

59
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,120
Speaker 1: family who I was supposed to show how grateful I am,

60
00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,520
Speaker 1: and and being able to be in that environment but

61
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,160
Speaker 1: never be equal to that has always been a struggle

62
00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,360
Speaker 1: for me because I'm also a social worker who decided

63
00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,200
Speaker 1: to leave that field to come into this conversation. And

64
00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,560
Speaker 1: being a social worker was partially due to the fact

65
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,600
Speaker 1: that I feel like I owe people and there's this

66
00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,800
Speaker 1: ingrained thought process in me and I had to really

67
00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,800
Speaker 1: like pull it apart of what that meant, and that

68
00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:01,120
Speaker 1: meant being grateful to the white commune city. And I

69
00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,320
Speaker 1: feel like this is not just me my circumstances a

70
00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,880
Speaker 1: little different. But when I see a lot of immigration

71
00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,720
Speaker 1: and refugee situations and I've seen anti black and racist attitudes,

72
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,120
Speaker 1: is because they also have that kind of attitude and

73
00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,279
Speaker 1: learning of I have to be grateful. I have to

74
00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:20,120
Speaker 1: prove myself into that world, and in order to do that,

75
00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,240
Speaker 1: that means I must before what they are fighting as well.

76
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:26,400
Speaker 1: So if white community is fighting being the dominant community

77
00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,359
Speaker 1: and being the superior race, then obviously we have to

78
00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,320
Speaker 1: be allied to that or that's that ingrained mindset and

79
00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,800
Speaker 1: being grateful. So yeah, I just I think I wanted

80
00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:37,279
Speaker 1: to talk about a little bit. So what does that

81
00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,840
Speaker 1: look like to break that down? I mean, can you

82
00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,360
Speaker 1: maybe it's just me in breaking that thought process down

83
00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:48,720
Speaker 1: and understanding this is what oppression is. Yeah, I think, um,

84
00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 1: you know a lot of people have had really similar

85
00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:56,400
Speaker 1: experiences to you. And I also think like thinking about

86
00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,240
Speaker 1: our responsibility and role in this moment as non black

87
00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,039
Speaker 1: people of color is really complicated and I think requires

88
00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,400
Speaker 1: quite a bit of real reflection. I think that where

89
00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,000
Speaker 1: the tension lies often is in the fact that, you know,

90
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,880
Speaker 1: as immigrants and as people of color, our communities have

91
00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,880
Speaker 1: been through a lot. Our communities have struggled and been oppressed,

92
00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:24,280
Speaker 1: you know, politically, economically, have suffered racism. And so I

93
00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,320
Speaker 1: think that sometimes where the tension lies is that, you know,

94
00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,840
Speaker 1: we see Asian people really sort of resistant to aligning

95
00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:36,280
Speaker 1: themselves with black struggle because I think that the instinct

96
00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,080
Speaker 1: is to be like, well, you know, I really suffered too,

97
00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,960
Speaker 1: and I also have dealt with white supremacy and my

98
00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,440
Speaker 1: experience in my life. So why should I be expected

99
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,919
Speaker 1: to show up for this community or this movement or

100
00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,760
Speaker 1: these people when I feel like my struggles are being ignored?

101
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,960
Speaker 1: And sometimes I see that tension as sort of like

102
00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,000
Speaker 1: the gut reaction. And I think that gut reaction is

103
00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,680
Speaker 1: also part of white supremacy, and that's also something that

104
00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,400
Speaker 1: we have to dismantle absolutely. And I also think that

105
00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,400
Speaker 1: we have a tremendous amount of similarity in our experiences

106
00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,200
Speaker 1: as immigrants and as Asian Americans, but also a tremendous

107
00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,479
Speaker 1: amount of diversity were a heterogeneous community. And I think

108
00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,040
Speaker 1: that a f C has actually had a whole lot

109
00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,800
Speaker 1: of transnational adoptees actually come into our space in the

110
00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,760
Speaker 1: last few months and share their experiences with us. And

111
00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,200
Speaker 1: you know that's not my experience, for example, but I

112
00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,600
Speaker 1: still believe that we can have community and comradeship and

113
00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,200
Speaker 1: really learn from each other there. I think applying that

114
00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,920
Speaker 1: same logic to sort of examining our differences, acknowledging our

115
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:46,400
Speaker 1: positionality in sort of a larger struggle and approaching black

116
00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,800
Speaker 1: liberation is something that we must be invested in is

117
00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,960
Speaker 1: really important. I'm rambling a little bit, but I had

118
00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,520
Speaker 1: a professor once who said her name is Crystal theme Star.

119
00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,680
Speaker 1: She's very brilliant, but she actually once phrased it as

120
00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:02,440
Speaker 1: white supremacy is incredibly flexible and incredibly adaptable, so it

121
00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,960
Speaker 1: has all sorts of new tools that it always applies,

122
00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,760
Speaker 1: and whether that's pitting different communities against each other or

123
00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,720
Speaker 1: kind of positioning Asian Americans as a model minority in

124
00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,880
Speaker 1: order to act as a wedge against a certain kind

125
00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,320
Speaker 1: of solidarity. UM, the logics of white supremacy are constantly

126
00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,440
Speaker 1: evolving to meet the conditions it's presented with, and I

127
00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,120
Speaker 1: think that an awareness of that is so important if

128
00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:32,520
Speaker 1: we UM really seek to dismantle it. Thank you, I

129
00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,200
Speaker 1: realized I just jumped into that. I'm very this has

130
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,800
Speaker 1: been a thought process for me, and it's been something

131
00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:39,120
Speaker 1: that I've been working out for a while. So I'm like,

132
00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,000
Speaker 1: oh my god, let me ask you. But the backtrack

133
00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,000
Speaker 1: a little bit. Can you kind of tell us about

134
00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,800
Speaker 1: a f C and how it came about? Yeah, definitely.

135
00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,880
Speaker 1: So we really came together in the aftermath of the election,

136
00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,040
Speaker 1: seeing I think this huge sort of ground swell of

137
00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,960
Speaker 1: feminist activism that happened right after Trump was elected, but

138
00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:05,160
Speaker 1: then also really seeing our communities and our voices really

139
00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,520
Speaker 1: um not present in that movement. You know. I think

140
00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,280
Speaker 1: that many of us went to the Women's March, and

141
00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,840
Speaker 1: I think that there was like just so much action

142
00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,320
Speaker 1: happening right then. But again, as so many times as

143
00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,760
Speaker 1: we have seen in feminist activism, it really feels like

144
00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,440
Speaker 1: it's a movement, or I should say mainstream feminist activism

145
00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,240
Speaker 1: really feels like it's led for and by cis gender

146
00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,920
Speaker 1: white women who experience economic privilege and whose problems are

147
00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:38,240
Speaker 1: very different from the problems of many of us who

148
00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,840
Speaker 1: are feminists, and so I think, like really seeing a

149
00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,840
Speaker 1: lack of Asian American voices in that space, we sort

150
00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,200
Speaker 1: of came together pretty informally a group of us to

151
00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,440
Speaker 1: host like some workshops and sort of like open community

152
00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,800
Speaker 1: forums about Asian American feminism in the age of Trump.

153
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,280
Speaker 1: You know, how can we also draw on our histories

154
00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,160
Speaker 1: and our communities in this moment to think about what

155
00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:04,960
Speaker 1: liberation and justice UM and gender justice looks like for

156
00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,120
Speaker 1: us in this moment. And so after sort of seeing

157
00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,640
Speaker 1: the popularity of that first event series really sort of

158
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,040
Speaker 1: pop off, we realized, oh, we really need to formalize this,

159
00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,480
Speaker 1: and this is actually a space that there's so much

160
00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,640
Speaker 1: hunger for. But oftentimes, like so many people like us,

161
00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:28,640
Speaker 1: I think, like queer Asians, trans Asians, brown Asians, multi

162
00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:34,360
Speaker 1: racial Asians, really didn't see UM an Asian American movement

163
00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,480
Speaker 1: that was really focused on our progressive politics. And so yeah,

164
00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,480
Speaker 1: we launched formally later in ten and since that time,

165
00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,080
Speaker 1: we have hosted a lot of different kinds of like

166
00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:49,960
Speaker 1: community workshops and panels, collaborated with different institutions across New York.

167
00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,960
Speaker 1: And yeah, we're really just focused on growing our movement

168
00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,480
Speaker 1: and creating a space for our community to come together

169
00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,679
Speaker 1: and get engaged politically and all so like, really create

170
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,760
Speaker 1: a space for that identity exploration and support that so

171
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,480
Speaker 1: many of us fought like we never had. Saloni, how

172
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,000
Speaker 1: did you get involved? I came on? So I was

173
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,520
Speaker 1: actually up in New Haven. I was in graduate school.

174
00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:15,840
Speaker 1: UM when a f C had their first launch event.

175
00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:20,080
Speaker 1: It was very sad to miss it, but quickly came

176
00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:21,959
Speaker 1: to every single one After that, CENTI and I were

177
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,920
Speaker 1: friends and the kind of met out in the real

178
00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,800
Speaker 1: world because we were the only two brown girls at

179
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,040
Speaker 1: a party and UM found each other like two magnets.

180
00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,880
Speaker 1: So there was kind of an instant solidarity there, right,

181
00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,400
Speaker 1: And I was thrilled when the four co founders asked

182
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,400
Speaker 1: me to kind of be part of the collective about

183
00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:43,000
Speaker 1: a year later, and yes, since I think our first

184
00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,400
Speaker 1: kind of four I all together was last fall we

185
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,320
Speaker 1: had a second year of birthday party. UM. It was

186
00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,520
Speaker 1: a wonderful celebration. We're very sad that we probably won't

187
00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:58,480
Speaker 1: be having one in person in September this year. Um yeah, cool. Yeah.

188
00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say when I saw it really excited. I

189
00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,000
Speaker 1: was very excited, and I'm like, man, I wish it

190
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:04,880
Speaker 1: was in New York right now. I will say a

191
00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,319
Speaker 1: lot of y'all are much younger than me, and I

192
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:11,040
Speaker 1: love that. I love seeing uh this community grow and

193
00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,440
Speaker 1: how affirming you are not only to each other it sings,

194
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,400
Speaker 1: but to other organizations outside of yourself and making sure

195
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,200
Speaker 1: you're an ally and being a part of that. And

196
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:21,559
Speaker 1: that was kind of one of the big things. I

197
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,280
Speaker 1: think I caught onto you when I was looking at

198
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,840
Speaker 1: another link and it was kind of an intersexual communication

199
00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:32,520
Speaker 1: between um, I think a black feminist movement with y'all

200
00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,440
Speaker 1: and you were doing a book club together, which I

201
00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,280
Speaker 1: was like, yes, I need all of these things, but

202
00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,040
Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit about why that's so

203
00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,920
Speaker 1: important that we are inclusive and we do try to

204
00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:49,959
Speaker 1: collaborate outside of just your own organization. Yeah, definitely. So

205
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,520
Speaker 1: I think like maybe it would be helpful if we

206
00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,760
Speaker 1: started a little bit just sort of talking about this

207
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,920
Speaker 1: political moment even before some of the like you know,

208
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,960
Speaker 1: civil rights up risings for racial justice that we're seeing

209
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:06,920
Speaker 1: right now. So when the COVID nineteen pandemic started, we

210
00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:12,000
Speaker 1: were really seeing a rise in anti Asian hate, crimes

211
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,360
Speaker 1: and prejudice UM, which was really you know, supported by

212
00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:20,960
Speaker 1: our racist president saying things like Kung flu and Chinese

213
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,640
Speaker 1: virus and so all of this anti Asian sentiment was

214
00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,280
Speaker 1: happening while we were also seeing that the community that

215
00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,800
Speaker 1: was most affected by COVID was the black community. UM.

216
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,160
Speaker 1: Racial disparities in health and access to healthcare have always existed,

217
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,920
Speaker 1: and we've really seen how this moment has exacerbated a

218
00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,880
Speaker 1: lot of those things. And so we released a ZNE.

219
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,480
Speaker 1: Our co founder Rachel, who's a brilliant scholar, really sort

220
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,679
Speaker 1: of helmed this project where we put together a ZNE

221
00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,320
Speaker 1: called Care in the Time of Coronavirus that really looked

222
00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:00,280
Speaker 1: towards Asian and Asian American like histories of air and

223
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,040
Speaker 1: care work and examining what it means to come together

224
00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,320
Speaker 1: as a community. And we had a lot of really

225
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,280
Speaker 1: amazing writers and activists, UM and artists come together to

226
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,360
Speaker 1: help create that project that really looked at how Asian

227
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,880
Speaker 1: Americans were experiencing this crisis, and then, you know, not

228
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,360
Speaker 1: soon afterwards, we were really sort of seeing more of

229
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,240
Speaker 1: like the racial impacts of how COVID nineteen was really

230
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,559
Speaker 1: hitting the Black community much much harder than a lot

231
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:30,200
Speaker 1: of other communities. And so it was really interesting to

232
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:35,000
Speaker 1: begin kind of thinking about what's cross racial solidarity means

233
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,280
Speaker 1: and looks like in this moment where our two communities

234
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,720
Speaker 1: were being impacted by this virus, obviously in different ways,

235
00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:44,880
Speaker 1: but um, it was really top of mind for us

236
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:49,199
Speaker 1: to begin thinking more strategically about what that solidarity looks

237
00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,199
Speaker 1: like and means. And so, yeah, we collaborate with our

238
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,280
Speaker 1: friend Jamie who runs this organization, Black Woman Radicals, UM,

239
00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:00,720
Speaker 1: and we had an Instagram lab conversation about Black Asian solidarity,

240
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,640
Speaker 1: and you know, since then, it's something, obviously, with everything

241
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,079
Speaker 1: that's going on, that we have been thinking about really deeply.

242
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,040
Speaker 1: And I think, to kind of get to your other point, Sam, too,

243
00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,880
Speaker 1: the way that collaboration has worked for us is kind

244
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,680
Speaker 1: of where we put our time and energy and care also,

245
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:22,800
Speaker 1: and I think there's really no shortcut to building relationships,

246
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,520
Speaker 1: maintaining friendships, really enjoying the people that you're organizing with

247
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,560
Speaker 1: and taking the time to listen to what they need,

248
00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,280
Speaker 1: what they're hoping to get out of a collaboration and partnership.

249
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,520
Speaker 1: Things like that. And what I've really been struck by

250
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,800
Speaker 1: as someone who's kind of new I feel often feel

251
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,960
Speaker 1: new to like the New York City activism scene, UM,

252
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,520
Speaker 1: is that there is so much wonderful work being done

253
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,880
Speaker 1: and there's really, um no time or space for ego

254
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,480
Speaker 1: right now, you know. I think amplifying the voices of

255
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,280
Speaker 1: great work that's being done in collectives that are not

256
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,920
Speaker 1: our collectives, in missions that align with ours but aren't

257
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,840
Speaker 1: necessarily the entirety of our mission is important because um,

258
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,040
Speaker 1: it's only through kind of that kind of coalition and

259
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,680
Speaker 1: relationship building that we're ever going to come up with

260
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:11,080
Speaker 1: a mass movement. And I think what was so great

261
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,120
Speaker 1: about that conversation with Jamie, or those initial conversations with

262
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,760
Speaker 1: Jamie's that we've kind of taken the time to have

263
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,520
Speaker 1: space where we can really talk about the similarities and

264
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,960
Speaker 1: differences in our experiences without kind of engaging in the

265
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,680
Speaker 1: weird like oppression Olympics that sometimes comes out. And I

266
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,720
Speaker 1: think when I say comparing similarities and differences and I

267
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,440
Speaker 1: almost hear myself become cautious because I'm sure you've heard

268
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,880
Speaker 1: the kind of conversation I'm talking about where someone says,

269
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,080
Speaker 1: this has been my experience of racism or anti blackness

270
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,880
Speaker 1: and how I've experienced it, and then you'll see someone

271
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,680
Speaker 1: jump in and say, oh, that's just like this thing

272
00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:48,760
Speaker 1: that happened to me, and it's almost like talking over

273
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,480
Speaker 1: someone it's something different and sort of being like, wow,

274
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,640
Speaker 1: that reminds me of the way my community has been

275
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,960
Speaker 1: used or the way that my community has experienced white supremacy,

276
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,240
Speaker 1: and how can we build together rather than and so

277
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,720
Speaker 1: your experience doesn't matter, Um, I think in kind of

278
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,240
Speaker 1: making space for the fact that we all have different

279
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,920
Speaker 1: things to bring to the table and understanding that is

280
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,200
Speaker 1: very important. I'm kind of rambling, but yes, so that's

281
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,440
Speaker 1: exactly I know. That's one of the big things that

282
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,680
Speaker 1: we have talked about on our show is why does

283
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,040
Speaker 1: there seem to be such a limited and I say

284
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,360
Speaker 1: that in quotes space for these conversations, as if we

285
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,880
Speaker 1: only have enough space to talk about this one thing

286
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,080
Speaker 1: and we can't look at the whole big picture. Whether

287
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,040
Speaker 1: it's to say again, yeah, this is the marginalization that

288
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:35,480
Speaker 1: we want to talk about because there's not enough for

289
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,720
Speaker 1: all of this, or if it's success, oh this one

290
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,040
Speaker 1: woman did it, so we can't talk about this other woman.

291
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 1: You know, it's kind of like, why is this need

292
00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,000
Speaker 1: to have limited amount of space and why is it

293
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,440
Speaker 1: specific to typically women and those of color? Why is

294
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,120
Speaker 1: that limits so small? And I think that's a great

295
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,360
Speaker 1: point that you talk about with even with the fact

296
00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,760
Speaker 1: of being through some type of harassment or through prejudice,

297
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:05,520
Speaker 1: that's has to be limited to somehow that Yeah, it's bad,

298
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,400
Speaker 1: it's all bad. That's not what we're focusing on. That's

299
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:13,120
Speaker 1: another conversation, but it's not necessarily a limited place, which, yes,

300
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,800
Speaker 1: thank you, and you were talking more about the whole

301
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,679
Speaker 1: ally ship and such. I think we're talking and just

302
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,680
Speaker 1: in general, what does that look like today? What does

303
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:25,240
Speaker 1: that look like for myself? For you who are brown

304
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,320
Speaker 1: but not black, what does ally ship look like? Yeah?

305
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,000
Speaker 1: I think that you know, Sloni brings up a really

306
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,439
Speaker 1: great point, which is that you know, solidarity at the

307
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,240
Speaker 1: end of the day is really about relationships and who

308
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:44,400
Speaker 1: you are in relationship with and how you practice community care.

309
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:50,159
Speaker 1: Like I think that there are so many institutions and

310
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,520
Speaker 1: groups and people that we see today, I think, who

311
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,639
Speaker 1: know exactly what to say and can like package there

312
00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,119
Speaker 1: are statements in a way that is like pretty and

313
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,520
Speaker 1: speaks to people. But at the end of the day,

314
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,600
Speaker 1: like whose team are you on? Who are you fighting for?

315
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,520
Speaker 1: And also like what are you willing to give up?

316
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,200
Speaker 1: Like what space are you willing to relinquish to really

317
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:17,160
Speaker 1: pursue collective liberation for all of us? And I think

318
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,919
Speaker 1: through thinking through a lot of this, like we have

319
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:24,240
Speaker 1: also really committed to the fact that solidarity is messy

320
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,640
Speaker 1: and anti racism work actually doesn't always feel good, nor

321
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,640
Speaker 1: should it, and it's not always going to be something

322
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,360
Speaker 1: that you feel like you're great at, and that's actually

323
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,280
Speaker 1: not the point. Um. The point is like to learn

324
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,720
Speaker 1: and grow, and I think be willing to get messy.

325
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:46,080
Speaker 1: And so I think for us, like solidarity means like

326
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:51,760
Speaker 1: explicitly naming definitely that we're not all affected by racial

327
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,640
Speaker 1: injustice in the same way, but asking like what can

328
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,560
Speaker 1: we actually do together to create a world where all

329
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:02,040
Speaker 1: of our communities and thrive and live with the opportunity

330
00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 1: that we deserve. And so I think being in solidarity

331
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:10,280
Speaker 1: means listening first and foremost. I also think it means

332
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,040
Speaker 1: like examining the spaces in your life where you do

333
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 1: have privilege and looking at how you are going to

334
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,560
Speaker 1: take up space in those places in order to further

335
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,920
Speaker 1: and anti racist agenda. And you know that can look

336
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,399
Speaker 1: all kinds of different ways, um and I think that

337
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,119
Speaker 1: it's something that we are still very much figuring out.

338
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,320
Speaker 1: And I think also for Asian Americans in particular, there

339
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 1: are certain aspects of this that are definitely very specific

340
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,720
Speaker 1: to our communities. As wide and varied as our communities are,

341
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,520
Speaker 1: I think that anti black racism is a common thread

342
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,240
Speaker 1: in many many Asian and Asian American communities, and we

343
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,920
Speaker 1: really need to own that and examine it absolutely. I mean,

344
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,000
Speaker 1: I think that we have to kind of be really

345
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:01,240
Speaker 1: candid with ourselves and vulner doable about where we need

346
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 1: to change. And I think that comes since he was

347
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 1: saying kind of acknowledging where you have privilege and where

348
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:07,879
Speaker 1: you can kind of spend some of that privilege to

349
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 1: redistribute your power. That requires an analysis of power and

350
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,600
Speaker 1: how things work, right, knowing which spaces that you're taken

351
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,439
Speaker 1: seriously in and how you're going to bring people in

352
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 1: being really candid when perhaps you're covering an opportunity because

353
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 1: you're the only one in the running for it because

354
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,639
Speaker 1: of something, you know, the way something has been structured.

355
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,320
Speaker 1: I often think that some of our work right now

356
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,960
Speaker 1: is to also think about UM and really examine if

357
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 1: we have any collective discomfort around taking the lead from

358
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,239
Speaker 1: black leaders and kind of letting them define what this

359
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 1: moment needs, UM, what the work should be in this moment,

360
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 1: what's most helpful for us to do in this moment,

361
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 1: how to kind of show up, and what kinds of

362
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 1: showing up are most helpful Because I feel like, you know,

363
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 1: there's ebbs and flows of urgency in certain kinds of activism,

364
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,639
Speaker 1: and right now we're in a really urgent moment, and

365
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 1: so I think being willing to say, like, I'll take

366
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 1: your lead and tell me what to do is kind

367
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:07,159
Speaker 1: of critical at this moment. Yeah, I love that, And

368
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,480
Speaker 1: you know, I also do want to name some like

369
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 1: very specific things that I think all of us should

370
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,440
Speaker 1: be doing, but as Asian Americans like some very specific

371
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 1: things that we can commit to. UM. I think, like

372
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 1: you know, committing to never calling the cops no matter what,

373
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:28,360
Speaker 1: like actually committing to re envisioning different ways that justice

374
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 1: and accountability and care can happen in our communities. Were

375
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,119
Speaker 1: obviously in a moment I think where people are learning

376
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: a lot more about prison and police abolition than ever before,

377
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: but understanding that as fundamentally a racial justice issue that

378
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,160
Speaker 1: we can also commit to through daily behavior like refusing

379
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 1: to call the cops and also educating our families about

380
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:57,199
Speaker 1: why defunding and dismantling police systems is a movement that

381
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: we should be involved in. And you know, I think

382
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 1: in terms like listening like a social media is such

383
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 1: an amazing way to be able to learn from black leadership,

384
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 1: especially people like black trans women who we probably are

385
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 1: not going to see have a national stage and the

386
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 1: way that they deserve. But we can really take it

387
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 1: upon ourselves to do that work of self education so

388
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 1: that we're not asking black people to educate us. We've

389
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 1: seen so much support recently of bail funds and a

390
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: lot of really well known black lead organizations, but I

391
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 1: also think donate more than just two bail funds in

392
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 1: this moment, if you can. The money that we donate

393
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: to bail funds goes back into this horrible system of

394
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,479
Speaker 1: oppression that we're actively working to create. So can you

395
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: actually donate some of your money to grassroots organizations led

396
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: by black, trans and queer people. Can you donate that

397
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,120
Speaker 1: money to progressive black people who are running for office?

398
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,360
Speaker 1: And so I think just being really intentional about where

399
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: the money is going that you're donating. And I also

400
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,199
Speaker 1: think like educating our families. I would say that's one

401
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 1: of the biggest things that you know, Selonie and I

402
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: and our work with a FC get asked about, is

403
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: people saying, like, my family is anti black. How how

404
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 1: do I possibly begin this education work with them? Right,

405
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,200
Speaker 1: we have a lot more of our conversation for you listeners,

406
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,719
Speaker 1: but first we have a quick break for word from

407
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: our sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsor. Let's get

408
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: back into it. How should people how do people need

409
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: to be talking to their families their communities about being

410
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,439
Speaker 1: anti racist and what that looks like and why anti

411
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: blackness is such a big thing and how to break

412
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 1: that down. Maybe this is a little I don't know

413
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 1: if I'm going to put my foot in my mouth here,

414
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 1: but I actually think it's our role as like real

415
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: community members, people who are part of our families. Right,

416
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 1: we're not like emissaries. We are going back to a

417
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 1: backward land to like tell truths to our parents. I

418
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 1: think that we have to have real conversations that are empathetic,

419
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: that listen, that actually inquire about our parents experiences with

420
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 1: power and the police and racism, things that they've experienced.

421
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: Because while in the kind of social media arena, here's

422
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: the oppression I experienced, and I don't like That's why

423
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 1: I think it justifies my anti blackness. That's not a

424
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 1: helpful thing to have on Twitter. But if you're sitting

425
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: around your dining table and you can have a conversation

426
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: around why an experience of racism that your mom or

427
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: dad had actually could be interpreted as something caused by

428
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: white supremacy and why they should be kind of committed

429
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: to this struggle, that can be really productive. And I

430
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: think that we kind of can use some of the

431
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: tools we have as children or siblings to be gentle

432
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: but also firm with our parents that kind of this

433
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,439
Speaker 1: is important and to us, and have the kind of

434
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: like messier conversations that are sometimes it's it's not anyone

435
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: else's work to do. I guess like we have to

436
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 1: get our own families and right often when I talk

437
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: to my students, sometimes I think there's a frustration that

438
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: you know, like you go to college, you feel like

439
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: your mind is blown or something, or you stumble upon

440
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: your first critical race theory manifesto and you're so ashamed

441
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: that you thought you maybe had anti black opinions or

442
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: you had thoughts that you were ashamed of, and then

443
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 1: your shame turns into like anger towards your community and

444
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 1: not a lot of understanding or empathy. And I think

445
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: that we all have to work on sort of bringing

446
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: people to where we are when we love them for

447
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: whatever reason, right or I'm talking about, of course, people

448
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 1: who are lucky enough to come from loving and supportive families,

449
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 1: who perhaps have opinions that we want to change. But

450
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 1: we can kind of do that work and be patient

451
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: and be thoughtful. I think. Yeah. I also think, you know,

452
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 1: slone brought up earlier the model minority myth, which is

453
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 1: I think also something that we do have to actively

454
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 1: do the work of dismantling within our own families and

455
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: our own communities because we know that that's a myth,

456
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: but we also buy into it. You know, It's like

457
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: believing that as Asian Americans, we are superior to black people,

458
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: which is what the model minority myth teaches us. Is

459
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: again something that is like propagated and used by our

460
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: communities to create divisions between all of us as much

461
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: as it's used by white people who make a lot

462
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: of our rules. Right. But I think that also it's

463
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: really important for us to level with our families to

464
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 1: where we can talk about the oppression, racialized depression that

465
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: also exists within different parts of Asia and obviously has forever.

466
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: You know, Saloni and I are both Indian and thinking

467
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: about like castis um in India and how like that

468
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: is part and parcel of the white supremacy that we

469
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: deal with in the United States. Like it's the same thing.

470
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: It's the belief that certain kinds of people deserve opportunity

471
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 1: to live with freedom and other people don't. And so

472
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: I also think that having to deal with that kind

473
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: of oppression at home as part of again why it

474
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 1: might be difficult for a lot of Asians who come

475
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: to the US to be able to think about how

476
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: we have a responsibility to stand with and for black

477
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: lives again, because there understanding is like you know, I've

478
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,719
Speaker 1: dealt with so much oppression, and it's like, yeah, exactly,

479
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 1: we have all with with this oppression that obviously doesn't

480
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 1: affect all of our communities in the same ways. But

481
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,239
Speaker 1: if you would fight against that at home, um, in

482
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 1: your country of origin, why wouldn't you fight against that

483
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: same kind of terror that exists here? H And that's

484
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 1: I think that's a huge statement in itself when you

485
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: start trying to talk to your family and trying to

486
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: kind of put it into their terms and making sure

487
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: they understand from a perspective that they can be empathetic

488
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: to instead of just seeing the other. Yeah, the perspectives

489
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: Often that's kind of rooted in their experiences. Like Santi's saying,

490
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: you know, my dad, someone from Equality Labs actually tweeted

491
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 1: about this, and I was thinking about it a lot.

492
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: But my dad grew up in northern India and my

493
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: mom grew up in southern India, and they have had

494
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: very different experiences of India as a place. And my

495
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: dad has a very different or a very kind of

496
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: progressive analysis of why Islamophobia is toxic, and has never

497
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: liked the police and has long you know, it was

498
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: not hard to convince my father that we should abolish

499
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: the police. That was sort of a perspective that he

500
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: was really eager to take on once we started talking

501
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: about his experiences as a young man. His experience is

502
00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: seeing communal violence the ways that that affected his community. Um.

503
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,479
Speaker 1: But I think there's something that happens in the process

504
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: of immigration where all of a sudden, you're crammed into

505
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: a box and you're trying to kind of make relationships

506
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: with the people you find in a new place, and

507
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: there are fights that you feel are not yours to have. UM.

508
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: I guess I'm speaking from my experience speaking with my

509
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: parents and almost for us in having conversations, having permission

510
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: that they're allowed to care and be invested in racial

511
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: justice here, that it's also their fight and that they

512
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: can kind of have a stake in it, have skin

513
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: in the game. It's totally transformative. Um. And I think

514
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: that they, you know, move much faster than I ever

515
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: thought they would and are now they are full Black

516
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: lives matter. And I think that when I say meet

517
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: people where they are, I don't mean coddle them, but

518
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: I mean really be curious about their experiences and how

519
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: their ideologies were built. Right, And of course, you know,

520
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: it's helpful that my parents and I all immigrated together,

521
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: So I think there's some kind of like deep trust.

522
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: I think that they're probably very different conversations you would

523
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: have as an adoptee, the very different frustrating conversations I

524
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: sometimes have with you know, white family members I have.

525
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: That feels very different to me. So we all have

526
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: to kind of figure out where we enter when and

527
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: where we enter. But yeah, I also really, you know,

528
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: I've just been thinking lately about how being Asian and

529
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: being a feminist and having radical politics none of those

530
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: things are antithetical to one another. And the fact of

531
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: the matter is, like our radical histories as Asian people

532
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: have really been whitewashed and largely forgotten to history. Which

533
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: is why like one of the workshops that we do

534
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: is like to examine radical Asian American feminist history, like

535
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: learning about people like Grace Lee Boggs and your Coachiyama

536
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: and like different Asian Americans throughout history that have actively

537
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: fought with and for black lives and how have really

538
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: created like living examples of cross racial solidarity and action.

539
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: Our people have been fighting for justice and liberation for

540
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: a very very long time, and it's really sad that,

541
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of kids don't learn about that

542
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: and then have a whole process of you know, for us,

543
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: we really had to seek out this knowledge. And we're

544
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: obviously so lucky that we were able to go to

545
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: college and that we were able to devote so much

546
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: of our time and like our youth to just learning.

547
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,239
Speaker 1: And so I think like that's part of the responsibility too.

548
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: And when we talk about cross racial solidarity amongst Asian

549
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: Americans and black people, to say, like, this is nothing new.

550
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: This has been happening for a long time. People have

551
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: been having these conversations, and we're not reinventing the wheel here.

552
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: We're building on a long history of activists and liberation

553
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: fighters who have been talking and strategizing about this movement

554
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: for decades. Yeah, it's kind of the point that these

555
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: different movements were not singular movements. These movements were built

556
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: on each other, and we're you know, one of the

557
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: things that I had sent you guys, I know, was

558
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: the Immigration and Nationality Act of nine five, which was

559
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: in part with the modern civil rights movement. Of why

560
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: everything came about now, of course as a simple statement

561
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: and just a one statement, but it is. It's like

562
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: it builds on each other, and it shows that this

563
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: cross racial alliance has been important and has been around, um,

564
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: but it's been ignored and or you know, talked less of,

565
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: I guess, or pushed aside. And that's an unfortunate thing

566
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: because I will say, until I became an adult, I

567
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: didn't know much about this. And I say adult meaning thirties,

568
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: So it's been a minute. But I wouldn't even say

569
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: for me it wasn't college. Yeah, I wouldn't even say ignored,

570
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: but like strategically written out of the history that we learned, right,

571
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: because I think it's pretty threatening to the way power

572
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: operates right now, and kind of whiteness is a rupture

573
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: to imagine a sort of real solidarity. And all of

574
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: those movements were not without friction, right. There was a

575
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: ton of fighting and there's a ton of disagreement. And

576
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: one of my favorite things whenever we whenever I teach

577
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: feminism to my students is the idea that feminist practice

578
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: is actually disagreeing and trying to figure out through your differences, um,

579
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: like what your values really are and who um your

580
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: marginalizing and kind of building from that margin. Right, So

581
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: I think in becoming more comfortable knowing that you don't

582
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: just you're not born with all the answers. You don't

583
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: have perfect politics. When you come out of the womb,

584
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: you have to sort of constantly be committed to learning

585
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: and growing and being told when you're wrong or causing

586
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: harm and trying to incorporate that into your life. Only then, yeah,

587
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: only then are you building the politicist who want to

588
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: see Also is so interesting because you know, it wasn't

589
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: until I went to graduate school that I even realized

590
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: that the history of Asian America and the United States

591
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: goes back to the eighteen hundreds. Seventeen hundreds. You know,

592
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: George Washington used to collect China from China, and the

593
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: Astor fortune is built on the Asia trade. That's what

594
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: New York, you know, made all its money on. And

595
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: so when we look at an institution like the met

596
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: it's built with you know, black slave labor and Asian extraction.

597
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: So there are all sorts of ways that white supremacy

598
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 1: has like extracted from both of our communities. And understanding

599
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: that that's a long legacy and a long lineage has

600
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 1: been really powerful for me. Yeah, yeah, that's a whole

601
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: other things. Yeah, I won't do a whole history. It's

602
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: so dangel of talking about me after four pm. I'm like,

603
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: I've been reading all day, so I'm like, let's do

604
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: a small lecture. This is gonna gonna be when I'm

605
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: just gonna be like, hey, so I'm just gonna skype

606
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 1: you in and let you just talk to me. I'm

607
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: just gonna take a lot of notes. Okay, those are

608
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: terrible people. You have to be very careful before you

609
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: let us sleep. No, I love it. This is why

610
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: you guys are intimidating. As I'm looking at your biographies,

611
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, they're gonna school me in so many ways,

612
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be a long, good day. We're just

613
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: here to hell and I love it. I love it

614
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: so much. Yeah, I think you're asking me a little

615
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: bit of my history. My history is very my own

616
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: personal stuff is a lot of unlearning. Um and not

617
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: necessarily because I love my parents and I love who

618
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: they are and I am grateful that word comes in

619
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,280
Speaker 1: a lot in my life and where I am today.

620
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 1: But there's definitely a lot that I've I've missed and

621
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: a lot of missing pieces to my life that I

622
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 1: have had to undo in the last I'll be forty

623
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: this year, so in the last twenty years, and trying

624
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 1: to understand what justice means, what equality means, the harm

625
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: that it has happened, because you know, this is a

626
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: whole other conversation when we talk about in our racial adoption,

627
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,040
Speaker 1: in a cultural adoption, and what can be harmful and

628
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: what could be helpful. And my parents did something out

629
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: of a religious belief and they're good, good intended people,

630
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: and we know what that can be and at this

631
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: point in time has brought a lot of division between

632
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 1: the two, between myself and my family, and and it's

633
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: very obvious, and honestly it's been a growing thing since

634
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: childhood because being raised and pretty much an all white

635
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: town too, and being very aware that I was the

636
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: minority and that's just as it was, and an understanding

637
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: that I had a huge difference. It's definitely a lot

638
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: of unlearning. So for me, like even in the past,

639
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: I say, the first ten years in college, like outside

640
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: of college or while starting at college, was unlearning that

641
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: my race was not a downfall and not something that

642
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: I should be shameful of, and then trying to build

643
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: up what that means as a woman, as a feminist,

644
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: what does that mean coming out of religion and into

645
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 1: my own I guess you can say so. It's been

646
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: a whole other process. But finding organizations like yours is

647
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: what kind of pushes me and makes me want to

648
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: be bigger and stronger and louder. But it's definitely kind

649
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: of one of those Okay, how do I do this? Yeah?

650
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: It's hard. Where's my manual? You're doing it, You're engaging it.

651
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: Have you read Nicole Chunk's book All you Can Ever Know? No,

652
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: but it's in my list. Oh definitely. I thought it

653
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: was so beautiful. I'm just curious what you thought, but

654
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: what you will think? So you have to email me

655
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: when you read it. I will. I think I'm gonna

656
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna join this moop. Now I'm gonna be difference.

657
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: This is just the whole plot. This is honestly my

658
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: podcasting life is my plot to just find new friends

659
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: and now we're in relationships. It's definitely working, and he knows,

660
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: and he knows the bigger plot, it's not actually to

661
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: be on the podcast, is to find new friends and

662
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: good friends and then just be like, can I be

663
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: your best friend, We have a little bit more for

664
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: you listeners, but first we have one wrekup break for

665
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: words from our sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsor,

666
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: So thank you guys so much. I've loved this conversation.

667
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 1: Just awakened so many things, uh in me when we

668
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 1: have conversations like this and just opening up barriers and

669
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: just being very real and honest about not only our identity,

670
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: but what it is to be an advocate and to

671
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: fight and to push forward. What are you some advice

672
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 1: for people like myself and there's out there who are

673
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: unlearning things one and trying to build up and trying

674
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,760
Speaker 1: to be an advocate and fighter. What would your advice

675
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: be for those ladies out there or those who identifies females. Yeah,

676
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: this is something that I have been giving a lot

677
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: of thought to um and I'm really brought back to

678
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago. I was at a campaign event

679
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: for someone who was running for state Senate seat UM

680
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: here in Brooklyn, and you know, it was really at

681
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: the height of a lot of these uprisings for racial justice.

682
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: And there was this black organizer who came up to speak,

683
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 1: and you know, he was looking out at this crowd

684
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 1: of people that was multi racial and you know, had

685
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: a lot of white people and a lot of non

686
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: black people of color. And he said, you can't love

687
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: what you don't know. And so, you know, I think

688
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: that when we think about solidarity being about relationships, you know,

689
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: ask yourself, like, who are the black people in your

690
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 1: life that you love? Do you have Black people in

691
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 1: your life that you love, respect, admire, that you will

692
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: fight for beyond just words and donations, but that you

693
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: will actually be committed to creating a whole new framework

694
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: of what it means to be in relationship and build solidarity.

695
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: I think that even in a city like New York,

696
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: obviously we are so segregated, and I really don't think

697
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: that you can actively fight for black lives if you

698
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: don't actually have black people in your life that you love.

699
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: And so I think that when we think about solidarity

700
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 1: beginning with relationships, like build those relationships and do that

701
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: listening and make yourself useful. Yeah, definitely make yourself useful,

702
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: and I think overwhelmingly went so you know, reading, learning, thinking, sitting,

703
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: reflecting all very good, and when you're ready to take

704
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,439
Speaker 1: some punches, I would just say, like punch up. That's

705
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: my number one piece of advice. I see a lot

706
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: of kind of baby activists sort of sniping at each

707
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: other sometimes, and I think in the Asian American community,

708
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: it's sometimes very easy to go after other Asian Americans

709
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,439
Speaker 1: in who you're going to critique or who you're going

710
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: to be frustra it it with, because it's challenging work

711
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: that takes a lot of personal growth to kind of do.

712
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: So just think about, like, what are the structors you're attacking, um,

713
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 1: go after those, Like what are the harms you're trying

714
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 1: to correct, Go after those. But I definitely agree with Cinti.

715
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: I think that politics of love are kind of critical

716
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,760
Speaker 1: to doing movement work that feels long term and feels

717
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 1: really hard and sometimes requires you to be like brave

718
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: and it's not glamorous and it doesn't feel good, and

719
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: it might feel like you're giving up something even but

720
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: you have to have a vision of like who you're

721
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: giving that up for and who you're building a better

722
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: world for. Yeah, I love that. I think that's so

723
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 1: true about many people. Unless they have an actual personal connection,

724
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 1: they don't understand the whole picture, the bigger depth of

725
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 1: the picture. So thank you so much. Any do you

726
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: have anything, because I've definitely been taking over ban girling

727
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: a little bit, a little bit nervous here. It's great,

728
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:57,399
Speaker 1: it's great. Um well, I always like to close out

729
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: with if if there's anything that we haven't touched on

730
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: that you would like to touch on that he feels

731
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: really important to share. And then also, what do you

732
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: have if there's anything in the future for yourself, both

733
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 1: personally or for the Asian American feminist collective that you

734
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: would like to share. We would love to share that,

735
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: We would love to hear that. I just thought of

736
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: one other thing that I think that we can all

737
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 1: commit to doing in terms of kind of like using

738
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: our privilege for good, but it's kind of sharing the

739
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: institutional knowledge we have. I've been thinking a lot about

740
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm going to mispronounce her name,

741
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 1: but there's this woman on Twitter, Tammy Techlo Marian. She's

742
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 1: a journalist, she's a wine professional who's been sort of

743
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 1: exposing these like horrible white male editors um at One

744
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: Appetite and uh Peter Mihan at the Only Time's Food section.

745
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 1: And I've been thinking about how like people get media

746
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: jobs and how people build careers and why we see

747
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 1: certain places like academia or um entertainment or media are

748
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: like so overwhelmingly white, and I think it's because of

749
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 1: the lack of like institutional knowledge orring. So something that

750
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 1: I think that we can do in addition to donating

751
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: and you know, being out on the streets, is sort

752
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 1: of being really transparent about what goes into things, how

753
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: people should either be negotiating, or how structures work, how

754
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: you got where you are. It was wonderful when you

755
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: sent us that email being sort of like, we'll be

756
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 1: paying you for this. That was kind of a you know,

757
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 1: I think it's that kind of work that's also important,

758
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 1: about sharing the things that you've learned and the things

759
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: that people may be shared with you because of your position,

760
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: um that now you have the opportunity to share more

761
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: widely and stop guarding as like carefully one institutional knowledge

762
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: sort of a strange thing to end on, but I

763
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: was thinking about it. I think that's very relevant. SENTI.

764
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if you have our upcoming greatest hits

765
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:49,399
Speaker 1: to think about. I don't think so. But I'm happy

766
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 1: to share a little bit about how people can stay

767
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: in touch with a f C and our work and stuff. UM.

768
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: So people can learn more about the Asian American Feminist

769
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: collect div at Asian and Feminism dot org um or

770
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: on our Instagram page at a f C dot NYC.

771
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: We have a tiny letter that goes out periodically, and

772
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: we also are doing a lot of different kinds of

773
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 1: virtual events and engagements until our lives go back to

774
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 1: some kind of normal UM and so we'll be pushing

775
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: out a lot of information on our channels about different

776
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 1: events and collaborations that we're doing, and we're always looking

777
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: to grow our community. We believe that everybody has a

778
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: place and a voice with us, and if you'd like

779
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,720
Speaker 1: to learn more about us, please get in touch. People

780
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: can find me on Instagram at Senti Underscore Narrow and

781
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 1: at Senti Narwhal on Twitter. Yeah, and people can find

782
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: me at Saloni s A Hello and E on Instagram,

783
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: I'm just my own name and um on Seloni with

784
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 1: three est on Twitter. And that brings us to the

785
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 1: end of the this delightful interview. I'm so glad that

786
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: you found them and brought them on the show, Samantha.

787
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: I've already told them and I keep telling people my scheme,

788
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: but yeah, I'm just trying to find new friends and

789
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,439
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to add them to my friend list.

790
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 1: I think you're doing an excellent job. Thank you. This

791
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 1: is my whole mission, you know, this just to get

792
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: more friends. I think I said that from the very beginning.

793
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: I never lied you, you know what. I appreciate that

794
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: about you. You were very upfront about your goals. You said,

795
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna leave and I just want friends, and

796
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: look at this, it happened. It's like might wishless and

797
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 1: so Cynthia and Salani, thank you so much for coming

798
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,839
Speaker 1: on um and talking with us and sharing with us

799
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 1: your massive amount of resources and knowledge. It's so fantastic

800
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: to be able to bring people on who can share

801
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: so much. Yes, and go check out the work that

802
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: they're doing. And if you have someone that you think

803
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: we should check out, or if you are someone doing

804
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,280
Speaker 1: something that you think we should check out, please please

805
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 1: let us know. You can email us at Stuff Media,

806
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at i heeart media dot com. You can

807
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: find us on Instagram at stuff I Never Told You

808
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: or on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks to our guest,

809
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: Thanks to our super producer Andrew Howard. Thanks Burger Face.

810
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: And thanks to you for listening. Stuff I've Never Told

811
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: You's a production of I heart Radio. For more podcast

812
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,240
Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

813
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.