WEBVTT - 106: The Trail w/ Tony Goldwyn 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.520 Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shanda land Audio 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:33.239 in partnership with Iheartradios, Y Katie, we have to have 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:38.400 a Scandal reunion, like what the hell COVID really screwed it? 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:42.520 But like whether it's George's house or Shanda was saying 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:44.680 she is a Vermont play, I honestly think we should 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:47.159 go to Vermont and all like make jam and like, oh, 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:51.040 I agree, would that be? We have to I know, 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:53.720 I know, I know, I hope Vermont. That's such a 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:56.080 oh my god, that would be. Yeah. Shanda like has 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:57.600 said like she's a house there. But I also think 0:00:57.600 --> 0:00:59.600 I could email my person and be like, can a 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:03.040 freak in hotels? Right? Host us in Cabo, Like, but 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:06.640 the whole cast, the Scandal cast to come. We'll do 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:08.920 a photo shoot whatever you want. I'm not going to 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:10.120 be in a bathing suit, but I will be in 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:13.920 a cover up. Yes, hell yeah. I think what you'll 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:17.840 all hear as we continue these episodes is like it 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:21.120 really was such a special group. Yeah, like we really 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:23.080 like we were really like a family, like and it 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:27.040 stayed that way. Years have passed and we're still super 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:29.160 close and we all love each other and yeah, and 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.720 that's rare. We are so pumped for today's episode because 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:38.760 the biggest fucking deal is here today. Did you U 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.280 still love the episodes he would direct us on, oh 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:44.240 all the time? Yeah. And you know we always talk 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:46.880 about like how great it is having a director that's 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:48.960 also an actor because they know how to talk to us, 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:51.720 they know our sort of you know, when we when 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:56.200 we're feeling extra vulnerable or like insecure. He's just so 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.760 so loving, so so great working with him. He's so 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.120 great that almost sometimes he's too good because I've had 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:03.880 so many Have I told you this before. I've had 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.559 a couple actor friends, No, actually more than a couple 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:10.079 audition for various projects as he's directed in the last 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:12.000 ten years since I've become his friend, and they always 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.720 text me the same like I got it, Katie through 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:16.959 so amazing, I got it, And I always want to 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:21.720 be like, you did it. That's just Tony, Like he's 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.120 he's so sweet, and he always takes the most time 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.040 and care in the room with the actors like that, 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:31.320 you end up spending like forty five minutes in there 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:33.000 and you think like, holy shit, I got this part, 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:38.119 and I'm like, no, that's just Tony oh man, all right, 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:41.920 we're done with the logistics because our one, our only, 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:51.160 Fitzgerald Grant the third is here. Yay, We're so forget man. 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:53.240 We're so happy to have you, Tony. Thank you for 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.560 making the time. We love you. The scandal Rewatch podcast 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.400 has just sneakingly become me and Garmo's way of like 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:03.160 hanging out with all of our friends. Yeah, I know, man, 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.400 Before we talked about the trail, Tony, can you tell 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.440 us how in the hell you got this part? Man? 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:14.320 It was just luck. It was luck. I swear it 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:18.040 was the weirdest thing I had. I had met Sean 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.320 Dune Betsy because I directed one of the first grays 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:24.320 anatomies and it was like one of the first television 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:29.640 shows I had directed, and so I got to know them, 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.079 like what it was before Grays had aired. I think 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:35.760 it was the third, second or third episode of the show. 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:39.280 It was a third, but it shot second or something 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.440 like that, or the second and it shot third, but 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:45.160 they had made the pilot, which was unbelievably good. And 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:49.400 then so I think like Betsy had liked my first 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:51.920 film or something and said would you want to do this? 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:54.240 And I saw the pilot, I was like, oh shit, 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:58.440 this is like super commercial but also really original and 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:03.160 amazing actors one of my period. Yeah, so I met 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.800 them and then met Shandu. I thought was brilliant and 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:09.640 unusual as you guys know, and like just such an in. 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.360 I was like, Oh, this woman's gonna be successful, like 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:14.480 you just knew she knew what she was doing. And 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:17.680 then so I did. I think I did a couple 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.599 of episodes of Grades Anatomies as a director, never acted, 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:22.880 and then she asked me a year or two later 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:25.520 to do a private practice for them, and then we like, 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.080 didn't you know, I don't think we saw each other 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:30.760 for years, and out of the blue I got a 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:37.160 call saying Shanda is doing this show with Kerry Washington 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.680 and once did you want to play the President? And 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:42.160 I had and I had been dying to work with 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:44.640 Carrie because I knew her a little bit, like through 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:47.320 politics stuff. And then but I every time I would 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.480 see Kerry Washington in a movie, I'd be likes that 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.960 amazing actress in that part, like who the hell is that? 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:56.000 She looks familiar? And at the end, I go, oh 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:57.880 my god, that's Kerrie Washington. Every time I saw her, 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.479 she was totally different. So I'd been kind of looking 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:04.120 to work. So I heard Shanda carry. I literally didn't 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:05.760 read the script. I was like, I this sounds like 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:07.960 something I really want to do, and then I read 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:10.680 it and thought, oh man. But it was cool because 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.480 Shanda I called her up or she said, let's talking 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:15.400 and she said, look, I don't know how big or 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:18.160 small this thing is going to be, or I mean 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:20.400 the role. She said, you can be in it a 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.040 little bit if you want, You give me in it 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:23.719 a lot if you want. I don't really know where 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:27.400 it's going. You know. There was the intimation of romance 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:29.600 at the end of the pilot in the script, but 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:31.599 you know, when they kiss in the oval office. But 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:35.280 I thought, well that could get interesting. But I wasn't 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:39.080 sure because it would inhibit me from directing films, you know, 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:40.840 And I was like, I'm not sure I want to 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:43.600 do it. I was so stupid, you know, Is that 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.040 what you wanted to really like do at that time? Tony? 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:47.920 Did you want to keep directing? Were you digging that 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.960 I wanted to keep directed? But can I be totally honest, 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:54.400 I had just directed my film Conviction. Yeah, and it 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:56.160 was one of those things you know in Hollywood when 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:58.280 you have those moments, anyone's like this is the one 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:02.000 that's going to be huge, and it's like whatever. Anyway, 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:05.200 it wasn't. It was like the movie didn't open and 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:14.360 didn't do business. So I was like, oh, okay, that 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:17.839 movie was so hard to get made, and I thought, 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:19.680 oh my god, I don't know if I like I 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:21.920 want to keep directing. But that was that took. It 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.840 took you like seven years or something to get it off. Yeah, 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:27.440 eight years to get that movie off to go. I 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:29.400 kept coming to life and falling and parting him in life, 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:30.760 and it was by the time we made it, it it 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:32.400 was it was you know, I loved it, but it 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:34.919 was it was exhausting. So then I thought I should 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:37.280 be smart to think about like doing a series because 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.039 television is transformed, and like I should just be not 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:42.680 an idiot anyway. So then literally right after that was 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.000 when I got this out of the blue call from 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.760 from Shawanda, and then we talked and she was so 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:50.680 chill about it. She was like, what if you want 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:54.000 to do seven, you can seventy. So I said, of course, 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:56.760 and and um, I was sort of thinking about it. 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:00.720 My manager Jason was like, you're doing this those things, 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:03.880 I don't care what. Stop thinking about any your say 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:06.640 you say yes because this could be a huge hit. 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.720 It was like, yeah, okay, okay. Did you have any 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.440 hang ups about like being a president, Like had you 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:14.960 always wanted to play a president or were you like, wow, 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:17.440 I'm gonna go Like I mean the presidents. I think 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.680 of Pullman, Martin Sheen, I think of like you know 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.840 you're in that. You know now you could if this 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:26.160 show was a hit, which it is or where is it? 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:28.560 Like it was like, whatever, great, I didn't even think 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:30.120 about that. I thought it'd be cool, Like I thought, 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:33.119 what an interesting character. Yeah, and I saw this really 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:37.280 potentially interesting relationship with Olivia. I thought, if that goes somewhere, 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:40.600 that could be really interesting. But honestly, you never know 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.040 what the hell anything's going to be. And the thing 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.680 for me was that first day of rehearsal when I 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.400 met you guys. Oh it just clicked right, I said, 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:54.520 oh shit, do you remember that? Like, wait, take us 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.040 through it, because this is another question, like memories from 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.360 the pilot, what do you mean like rehearsal when we 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:01.680 were in that stage and it was like taped off. 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:05.440 It was one of those rare things I've experienced so 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:09.680 infrequently in my life and in my career. We all 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:13.080 just connected. Man. It was I felt like I was 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.800 with my best friends from high school all of a sudden, 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:20.320 like you and then Darby was just cast that day. 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:23.640 I remember showing up and being like, Hi, I'm DeBie. 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:26.760 I just got this part, you know, and hearing your 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:29.720 story Katie about how you auditioned and you know, and 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:33.240 amazing story about it. You got it, and you know 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:35.800 Jeff who I knew it a little bit, but it 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.600 had been admired for so long and Kate and Kate 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:41.720 Burton was later right, Gee and I have this long 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:43.680 history of but but there was that day of all 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:45.559 of us connect. I don't know, I just remember it 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:48.439 being this rehearsal period. We had like a week of 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:51.839 rehearsal at at what I'm called Prospects Studios, and I 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:54.480 don't know, I just I that was one of those 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:57.600 things where I thought, oh man, it was that's incredible 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:00.520 chemistry we all had. It was so fun, don't you. Yeah? 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:04.040 Oh my god. It was like it was like theater camp. 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:08.760 Like it was just felt like really everybody connected and 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.360 fell in love and really trusted each other and was 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:16.439 so into the script and the stories and the greater 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:18.400 good of the show. Like it just felt like we 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.040 were part of something bigger than ourselves. Yeah, and it 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:23.440 feels like they took such a chance, right, It felt 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.360 like it's like a crapshoot, like putting this cast together. 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.560 And of course Linda Lowey is brilliant and she made 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.640 it happen. But even my audition, I auditioned once and 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:33.360 then I booked her. I think a lot of us 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.080 just auditioned once, if even auditioning at all. But just 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:39.840 the fact that it worked, right, that it worked like 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:43.720 that could have gone downhill really quickly. Nobody could have chemistry, 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:45.439 or we could have you know, not liked each other, 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.080 but it just it clicked. It worked. It was like 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:50.600 like you said, it was like magic, so crazy. So 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:53.880 you never chemistry read with Carrier or anything like how 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:57.040 did you know? Wow? Like did you know that the 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:01.920 relationship was going to be fire? Like because I'm convinced 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:06.880 the show. Look, the show was amazing, but like the 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:10.880 thing that hooked people and when I realized the show 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.240 was a hit was when you became in your fifties, 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:14.640 which I want to ask you about a full on 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.360 fucking sex symbol. So thank god you listen to your manager. 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.960 But when I first walked into our you know, Scandal 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.840 was a real slow burn. It wasn't like an overnight success. 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:31.120 We really had a short first order, you know. And 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:33.360 I remember walking into some press event in the middle 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:38.120 of second season next to you, Tony, and girls literally 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:40.680 screaming at you like you were a beatle or something. 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.760 And you never chemistry read you never auditioned, So we 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.679 never knew that the fitz Olivia thing would be what 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:50.600 it was. No, and Shanda, I don't think she knew 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:54.240 that she wanted it to be necessarily the only thing 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:56.760 I like, I said, I had really admired Carry so 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:58.920 much and wanted to work with her and the thing 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.360 I felt with Ry, which I frankly thought with all 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:04.280 of you guys, but I really felt it with her, 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:08.280 and our relationship was primary. We just connected as actors 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:11.559 like Kerrie and I never had to talk about anything. 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:14.080 It was weird, man. We never like Jeff and I 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.079 connected in a different way like Jeff and I was 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:20.079 like every day, especially in the first season, we would spend, 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:23.240 we kind of latched onto each other and would talk 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:25.400 about lactor stuff, you know, like our back Well, what 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:26.760 do you think that, you know, we give each other 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.640 books about politics, and that we just were doing nerdy 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:34.360 actor talk. Oh my god, yours, I'm obsessed with this. 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.160 We had that kind of a relationship with hilarious. But 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:40.400 Kerrie and I, like with scenes, we would never even 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.240 discuss them. We just had the same perspective on everything. 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.000 So we come up and we do it. Yep, pretty much. 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:50.880 Wow that we just had the same orientation towards stuff 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:53.120 and the same kind of way of working or something. 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:56.000 I don't know. So I remember feeling, oh, this is 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.600 just easy, this is just works, this this creatively we 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.640 so that we literally I don't think we ever discussed. Yeah, 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:05.679 it was almost like, let's not look too close at 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.680 this because it's working. Like, let's not even like try 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.240 to examine or take the specialness out of it. Let's 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.840 just just because it was so trippy for us too, 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:17.200 because we were in our opa world so we didn't 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.079 you know, our characters didn't encounter you guys that much. 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.640 And we would talk so much shit and good stuff too, 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.520 about the White House, the White House must be so boring, right, 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.000 we're so much we have so much fun here at 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.880 it was way more boring. But then there were the 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.560 moments when you would come and direct us, which was 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.160 so much fun. And I mean it was like like 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:40.840 wrangling cats. I bet right, like we were just when 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:47.480 first it was like becoming a kindergarten teacher. We were 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:51.160 not getting trouble. You would yell, but like you were 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:54.400 like and you weren't the only one like you fully Verica. 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:56.920 They'd be like, come on, kids, stop it. You guys 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:02.160 have attention, stop it stop never stopped talking. So I 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:06.000 would just go action. Yeah, I told you that's that's 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.280 the way to do it. Yeah. And Katie's brilliant at that. 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:10.559 She would be talking about the story and then she'd 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:12.600 go right into playing Quinn. I don't think that's brilliant. 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:14.160 I think that's just like I don't have a lot 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.400 of stakes as an actor, which I can't do, Like literally, 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:19.280 if I do that, I'm gonna be like a mess 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:21.040 on the play. I can't I have the I I 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.560 can't have that facility. I know. How did all of 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:29.360 the memorization scandal, pace, all of that come to you? 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:32.559 Was that easy for you being word perfect? Like, did 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.320 you that wasn't too hard? I enjoyed it because it's 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:37.760 very much like working in the theater, isn't it. I mean, yeah, 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.360 here's the other amazing thing about Shanda I felt on 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:44.200 that experience. She was so clear from day one what 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.760 was important to her. There was like those are the 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:51.320 ground rules? Great? Like she said, I remember that talk 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.959 she gave us. She said, I will, I will take 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:56.640 any input you have to give me. But I what 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:58.640 did she say? It didn't end up sticking, but she 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:02.199 said I needed twenty hours after the table read give 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:03.960 me a note. I do not want something on set, 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:05.920 and what I write is music to me, so I 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.599 need you to say the words exactly as I write them. 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:10.600 And then it was the whole thing about speaking fast, 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:12.640 which she kept on us about it. But so I 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:15.200 thought that was like a really interesting technical challenge, and 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:17.440 it was like and so I was down with it. 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:21.080 I really enjoyed that technical challenge. You know, we're so 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.800 many other sets that you work on as a film 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:27.680 or television actor, and that's great too. People are ad 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:31.560 libbing all the time and paraphrasing, and you know that 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:34.360 that has its place with certain kinds of writing. But 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:36.880 we've talked about Tony how how we've gone on to 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.080 other projects and they have to literally be like you 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:41.880 you have to slow down. Can you slow down a bit? 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:46.800 Because now I'm just like, but like every single time 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.200 it makes the scene better, I think even better and 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:51.520 stuff beyond scanned. I'm like, y'all got to pick up 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:53.680 the pace. Like it's so they're just sitting there not 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:57.240 remembering their lines. That's why you're waiting. They're sitting there 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:59.640 making a dramatic choice, but really is because they don't 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:02.840 know what they're saying next. Yeah, I know That's how 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:04.560 I feel better. I love that you and Jeff are 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:09.200 over there all studying politics and Shita were like winds 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:13.480 were like making dance routines. Literally the crew. Some crew 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.000 people are like, get is starting to get pissed off 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:18.760 at us, Like I remember sometimes he'd be like because 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.400 we get into like the giggle like you know thing 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.600 too where we couldn't stop laughing and they're all like, 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:30.400 we've been working for fifteen hours together. Yeah. I remember 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:32.800 the first time I directed Josh Millne because I'm such 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:36.040 a like acting nerds and Josh this whole thing for 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:39.640 those who don't know. First of all, Joshua is brilliant. 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.440 He's just a brilliant human being. So he has this 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:47.600 incredible facility for everything he does. He has total disdain 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:53.680 for craft of acting, or at least you know, potentially so, 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:55.960 so I think he really loves it. But but he 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.040 Josh would be like, um, he never would look at 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.800 his lines until he was in the makeup chiller that 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:03.560 morning and you look at it once and he'd have 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:05.600 it all down. And it's just the way his brain worked, 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.880 and every actor works differently. But so in I think 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:11.520 that first episode I directed, whatever one it was, it 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.440 was in the heat of the relationship between Josh and 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:18.480 up yeah, between David and Abbey, right, so, and it 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:21.160 was a very fraught relationship. And I remember giving Josh 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:26.280 a note once about something about his emotional like need Abby. 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:29.120 I said, Josh, I really think, you know, like if 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.160 you try it again, that's great, but try it again, 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:33.000 and I really want to feel that, you know, some 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:37.040 some psychological thing about you know, his feelings for Abby. 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:41.960 And he's like, yeah, whatever, but completely disrespected me. He's like, 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.840 I'll just just mean, just do it faster. Oh, my god. 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.840 Oh he totally blew me off and I and I 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:51.840 was like, okay, well, and of course he was great, 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.960 but yeah, Josh is so funny. We will be back 0:16:55.040 --> 0:17:00.800 with more after the break. We have to talk about 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:03.400 where you came from, which is like, obviously you have 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:08.040 a very long, beautiful, amazing career in so many mediums film, TV, 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.520 tons of theater. Also, by the way, I love that 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.520 it scandal our vice president president. We used to talk 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:15.959 about this. Did you guys talk about this that our 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:19.480 vice president president were like Hollywood royalty, like just between 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:23.439 Tony Goldwyn of Metro Goldwyn Mayor and then Kate Burton 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:27.160 of Richard Burton. I was like the royals all up 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:30.040 in our show. But I wanted to know did it 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.879 feel crazy to you to like be I remember looking 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.600 at some magazine and you were like in a bathtub, 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.880 and I was like, oh my god, like this person 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.600 like this is crazy, Like had you already written off? 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:45.840 Like oh, like I was a movie star. I did 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.560 ghost like in my three days, like or was this 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:52.840 a shock scanned me? I was a shock And I 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:54.360 was also glad I was kind of a bit older 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:56.199 because I had a great sense of humor about it, 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:58.280 and I could just really enjoy it. Yeah, when I 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:00.320 had my first success with Ghosts and I was like 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:04.200 twenty nine years old or whatever, it was amazing and fun. 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:06.320 I was so grateful because I'd already been working for 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:08.480 five or six years and you know, struggling and all that. 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:11.360 I was very grateful, but I was super stressed out 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:13.440 by it because I didn't understand what that like. All 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:15.680 of a sudden, when you have success in our job, 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:19.840 you go from being completely ignored by everybody and then 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.239 everyone's kissing your ass and shining right on you and 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.560 telling you you're a genius. And it felt fraudulent to 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:28.239 me when I was young, so I didn't quite know 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.359 how to handle it, and it was kind of stressful, 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:37.679 whereas with Scandal, I was fifty and I couldn't believe it. 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:41.679 I was like, it was also a lesson, and you 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:45.240 can't plan shit in your life. You could have goals 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.199 and you can try for things, but it's just to 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:50.199 have a give yourself a bit of a direction that 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:53.320 hopefully follows something you are passionate about or want to do. 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:57.040 You can't plan shit, So I could not have planned 0:18:57.040 --> 0:19:00.760 for that all the years I wasted thinking Okay, it's 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:05.600 gonna go this way. Yeah, so that whole time I 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:08.760 was just like, just enjoy this ride. Man. It was 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:11.360 um So, the whole thing of like, you know, the 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:14.320 sex symbol factor of fits was it was. It was, 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.560 It was fun, it was amusing. And I mean, didn't 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:18.960 girls like ask you to sign their bodies? I feel 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.720 like women were asking you to sign their bodies. People 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:25.680 did some intense ship tell us. Yeah, oh I well. 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:28.399 The two that come to mind was when I was 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.879 directing the pilot for The Divide up in Toronto, um 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:34.680 we uh or maybe the series, I can't remember, but 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:36.520 we were I was in the look a Break from 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:38.840 Scandal and I would get stopped on the street as 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:41.160 we all were, by people wanting a selfie. And this 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:43.440 girl I told her the story, This girl takes a 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:45.560 selfie and she's giving a selfie. She tries to make 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:50.400 out with me and I avert my mouth and she 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:54.320 licks my neck. She licked my neck full on, like 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:57.399 licked like like you like you licked um, like you 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:03.639 like Katie's neck? Yeah, like right and yeah, someone like 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.760 we both lick and then she licked me in another episode. Yeah, yeah, 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:11.200 it was like that. I was like, whoa. And then 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:13.159 she got herself and she walked away, so I was 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:15.080 like okay. And then the other intense thing is I'm 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:17.520 not so long ago. A few years ago, after scandal ended, 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:21.040 I was doing Network on Broadway and a woman had 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:24.439 been waiting outside the theater to get my autograph and 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:28.880 Brian Cranston comes. I guess I hadn't gone out. Maybe 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:30.240 it was like I don't know. I was hanging out 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:32.399 in the theater and Brian said, did you see the 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:36.160 woman with the tattoo when you when? And I was like, 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:39.679 he said, Tony, there's a woman who wants to meet you, 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:41.800 who has a tattoo of you on her arm. Oh 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:46.359 my god, like what? And I ended up I ended 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:48.399 up going by, I mean, maybe going out later, and 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.560 she wasn't there. And then the next day it was 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:53.240 a Sunday, I think, the matinee and I came out 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:54.880